WEBVTT - Christine Lagarde 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:05.000 When Christine Lagarde was selected to become the first female 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:07.920 Managing director of the I m F in eleven, it 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:11.240 was simply another first for the French lawyer, whose long 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:15.320 career has included experiences in the legal, governmental, and economic 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.599 fields in both the public and private sectors. Born in 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.919 France to a family of academics, Legard completed her high 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:25.240 school education at the Holton Arms School in Maryland before 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:28.720 attending college in France, where she obtained master's degrees in 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.480 English labor law and social law. After a successful career 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.760 at the Chicago based law firm Baker and Mackenzie, Legard 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:40.000 held several ministerial positions in the French government, including Minister 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.640 of Agriculture and Minister of Finance, becoming the first woman 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:46.479 to hold that role in any G eight economy. In 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.640 June of twenty eleven, Lagard was elected to succeed Dominic 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.400 Strauss Khan as the Managing director of the I m F, 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.760 a role she holds to this day. She recently sat 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.240 down with Carlisle Group co founder David Rubinstein. They spoke 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:03.400 on David reuben Stein's Bloomberg television program Peer to Peer Conversations. 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.319 Many people don't know what the IMF actually is. The 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.360 International Monetary Fund was set up seventy five years ago 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:15.319 by forty four men who decided that women. There was 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:17.959 no woman in those days. So forty four men in 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.040 on the eve of the end of the Second World 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:27.360 War with a view to avoiding major economic crisis, major 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.080 instability in the world, which in the view, led to 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.280 the war. So that's the intention. Where do you get 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:37.720 your money from? All the membership, every member dred and 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:41.880 eighty nine members. Every member contributes to the financing of 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.679 this common pot. It seemed to be an informal understanding 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:47.800 that the World Bank would be headed by an American, 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.640 the IMF by a European, and that has been the 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.720 case ever since then. So am I correct? You know, 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:55.760 I want to believe that it's going to be headed 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.040 by somebody who has the competence to do the job. 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.360 Also fair observation that it has been a European at 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:03.360 the Fund and it has been an American at the Bank. 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.640 I think that's how they cut those arrangements in the 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.120 early days at a time when the world looked a 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.400 lot different, Well, the world looked different today. For example, 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.320 Asia's much more significant so did the people from China 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:17.959 or Japan say what about ask the emerging market economies 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.600 are very interested in the institution, and China is certainly 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:25.280 extremely interested as well. China has a representative on my 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:29.320 management team. There is a managing director, that's how I'm 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:33.040 called m d Um. There is a first deputy managing 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:37.399 director who's an American, and I have three deputy managing directors. 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.480 One is Chinese, one is Brazilian, and one is Japanese. 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.840 So there is a lot of diversity on the on 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:47.400 the management team. Let's go back to how you actually 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.960 came to this position. So you grew up in France, 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.720 I assume, and what did you What did your parents do? 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:58.840 Were they educators or they in government? They were both professors. 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:05.040 My father as a professor of English literature at university 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:09.360 and my mother was teaching um French Grammar, Latin and 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:14.680 Ancient Greek. So that that's the universe that populated my 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.320 childhood and a lot of literature. So when you're growing 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.520 up with parents like that, I guess you're really good 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:21.880 in languages. They make sure that you know all those languages. 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:25.080 I was hopeless. I was really bad. Actively they doubt 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.280 that so you were, I assume a very good student 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:31.799 and uh where you're also interested in synchronized swimming at 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.400 that time, and can you explain what synchronized swimming really 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:36.160 is and how you came to be on the national 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:40.880 team of France. The athletic activities had to do with 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:45.960 the riots that we had in France in nineteen um, 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.640 you know, students were taking the streets. My parents were 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.680 terrified that I would do that too, so they allowed 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:53.920 me to go to the swimming pool of the club, 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.880 so I could skip school and spend all my time 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.840 by the pool. And I enjoyed swimming at the time, 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.080 and gradually, you know, one day after the other, I 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:07.840 became really interested in that synchronized swimming, which brought together girls. 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:13.520 So it's teamwork that required music and a liking of music, 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:18.120 and I'd always liked music and uh and and and 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.800 discipline and methods, so I joined the team at the time. 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.919 So with synchronized swimming you came you became a member 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:26.600 of the national team of France, where you won the 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.800 Olympic team as well, because it wasn't an Olympic sports 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:33.520 at that time, but I did European Championship and many 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:40.080 international events. You still do swimming or synchronized including this morning. Wow, 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:42.400 how do you have time for that? I get about 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:47.080 five o'clock. Oh, that probably helps, so it doesn't open 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:48.840 it until six, so I have to do a bit 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:51.040 of gym before that. What did you study in college? 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:56.760 I had a very classic education. I studied, um, you know, 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:00.640 the basic basic subjects that I suppose everybody studies, which 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:08.960 is French mouth, English, geography, history, chemistry, and physics, plus 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.640 some sports which were not so important in those days 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.240 in France, but very often leaders in France. How go 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.400 to certain schools and they go to these very prestigious schools. 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:20.279 Did you go to one of those schools? Now? I 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:24.400 failed miserably so. First well, because the first time I 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:27.240 was I was in love with somebody who was going 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.960 to become my husband, and I did not study very hard. 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:32.520 And the second year I did study really hard with 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:36.320 a group of others who studied equally hard, and I 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:40.359 totally missed the date of registration to actually take the 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.760 various examples. You became a lawyer, though, and what propelled 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.040 you to want to be a lawyer? The death penalty. 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:51.080 I wanted to participate in abolishing the death penalty. When 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:54.320 I started law school, the death penalty was one of 0:05:54.360 --> 0:06:02.200 the the tools of criminal law and or personal religious 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:06.560 and other reasons. I wanted to participate in eradicating this 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:11.680 penalty in in the legal arsenal of France. And unfortunately, 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:16.360 when I finished my my my law school, and when 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:21.599 I graduated and could have joined that group, the death 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:25.320 penalty had been abolished, right but nonetheless state as a lawyer, 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.320 and if you practice in France, yes, I practiced in 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.200 France for a few years, and I was doing like 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.000 so many young lawyers in those days. You had to 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:36.960 do tags, you had to do corporate, you had to 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:42.120 do antitrust, you had to do labor. Not luckily, the 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:46.760 French president to be elected was a socialist, and that 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:51.760 government came out with lots of very very hard label 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.680 or rules to benefit the unions and the workers and 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:58.680 all of that. Becker Mackenzie. Most of our clients were 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:03.239 international corporates or American companies that had invested in France. 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.240 And and I was really busy. So were there many 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.400 women lawyers in France in those days. No, no, no, no, no. 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:11.880 One of the reasons actually I joined Becka Mackenzie was 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:15.400 because the managing partner of the Paris office was a woman, 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.080 and she was then a role model for me. Now, 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.480 for those who don't know, Baker Mackenzie was for many 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:22.400 years one of the largest law firms in the world. 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.280 Because the largest, yes, and it was based in Chicago. 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.600 So at some point, how did you get to be 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:32.040 the head of the entire firm? You're a woman, it's 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.240 a male firm, more or less, you're from France. It's 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.960 a Chicago based American firm. So how did you get 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.280 elected to be the managing director of the entire firm 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.680 and moved to Chicago again. I'd love to think that 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:47.120 it's pure merits and and and quality of the work 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:51.440 I was doing. I think it's you know, it's interesting actually. Um. 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.080 So I became managing partner of the Paris office, and 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:57.200 gradually I was I was doing a decent job. I 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.880 was picked up by the nominating committee who was still 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.760 did me to join the executive committee, and I was 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.040 the first woman to be on that on that executive committee. 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:10.120 And then I went back to practice happily, but they 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:14.880 came back to get me. Um. By that time, it 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:20.000 was a mess. Um the i T budget was completely 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:25.200 out of out of order. The knowledge management system was 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:32.280 a complete disaster, and management was not really trusted. So 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.160 the nominating committee had a tough time selecting somebody. And 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.640 it's often in those situations that a woman arises. So 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.000 I was selected as chairman of the phone. Okay, so 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.040 you're the head of Baker Mackenzie. You're living in Chicago. 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.560 Was it like a foreign situation because you really were 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:48.679 living in the midwest of the United States. You're really 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:53.120 from France. Chicago is a fantastic city. Um. I had 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.360 lots of friends and I still have many of them today, 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:02.000 and I truly enjoyed my uh six years in Chicago. 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:03.480 All right, So you were doing that and all of 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.760 a sudden, Nicholas Sarkozy gets elected president of France. Did 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:08.439 you know him? It was just it was the year. 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.280 It was two years before that. It was Chirack was 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:15.960 still the president and Villepin, the Prime Minister was the 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.480 prime was was in charge, and he's the one who 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.559 called me. He called you to be Minister of trade. Yeah, okay, 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:23.680 so he called you to be Minister of Trade, and 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:25.559 you went back and you served as Minister of Trade 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:27.680 for a couple of years and how did you like 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:32.599 that job? I loved it. I really loved it. Um. 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:37.280 It was a massive change in my life geographically, socially, 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:40.560 financially as well. I assume the income was not the 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.120 same as you had. It was like divided by ten, 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.319 That's what it was. Um. But I loved it because 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.920 it was I think it was a job that I 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:56.080 most enjoyed in government, actually because I was selling France 0:09:56.160 --> 0:10:01.320 around the world. And I think President Shirack he knew 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:03.720 that I was this strange animal coming out of private 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:07.040 sector and private life and corporate life. But I think 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:08.520 he had a lot of respect for me, and I 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:12.120 had huge respect for him. And then Sir Sarkozy does 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:14.000 get elected president of France. He asked me to be 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.480 Minister of Agricultulture, which I had no clue about, but 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:19.160 I was prepared to learn. But you did that for 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:21.240 just a few months. I did that for two months, 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:23.320 because then he asked me to become Minister of Finance. 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.520 I think he asked me to be Minister of agriculture 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:27.120 because he knew that it was going to be a 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:30.120 hot w T O potato and he wanted somebody who 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.960 was acquainted with difficult international Either did such a great 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.079 job your promoted for two months, or such a bad 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.160 job and for two months they said give her another job. 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.199 One of those two. Probably you did such a good job, 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:44.520 they gave you that and there was reshuffling caused by elections. Well, 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.800 you're the first woman to be a finance minister of 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.640 a major country in Western Europe. Yes, yes, I was. 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.440 I was the I was the first fundance minister for 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:57.040 G seven country and of you know, of many countries actually, 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:00.600 So you were a lawyer by training, um, and all 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:04.600 of a sudden you're in charge of the finances for France. Um. 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.240 Did you have any background or you're worried about not 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:09.520 having that kind of background or did your job before 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.320 as a minister of trade help you. I think the 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.440 whole background helped me. But I recognized right from the 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:17.280 get go that I was going to have to learn 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:23.120 enormously and and learn from the team from the Treasury Department. 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:25.679 I had to work very hard. Okay, So you did 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:27.880 a very good job there by all accounts, and then 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.560 I m F managing director position opens up. Did you 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:33.120 really want the job or did you have to be 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.200 persuaded to move back to the United States. It's you know, 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.400 so many things in my life happened sort of out 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:45.960 of the right timing, the right people, um, and my 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:50.200 sense of all right, let's try it, let's do it. Um. 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.240 You know, when I returned back to France as as 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:54.839 a as a minister, I had not thought for a 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:59.840 second about my pension, my compennsation, the reporting lines, how 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.680 would work out. I just I just wanted to do it. 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.880 I wanted to help the country as finance minister. I 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.439 don't think that I anticipated at all that two months 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:13.199 into the job the beginning of the financial crisis would 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.920 loom as a result of the closure of the two 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:20.839 BNP accounts. But you just rule your sleeves and and 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:24.320 and work and and and team up with people who 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:28.320 know what they're doing and who have a good moral compass. 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:30.640 I think it's combinational for that. Now you've done a 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.360 very good job at the imp by all accounts. One 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.280 of the things that you have to worry about is 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.599 not just countries that are not doing that way I 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.880 need some money, but the economy of the entire world. 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:44.000 Because your job is to help promote stability and development 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:46.640 and also employment how do you think we are better 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.600 prepared around the world for another financial collapse of the 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:51.920 type we had ten years ago. No, I think we're 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:55.040 a bit better prepared. We're better prepared because at least 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.480 in certain areas we've learned the lessons. When you look 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.640 at the bankings term, when you look at the ring 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.359 of supervisors, when you look at the set of regulations 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:09.000 that apply, I think that in that particular sector we 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.440 are much better prepared. You know, the banks around the 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:16.079 world are most solid capital ratio's, liquidity, ratio's leverage in 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:20.760 on all those fronts, I think we've made significant progress. UM. 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:24.040 There are areas though, because risks tend to to sort 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:27.559 of travel to the fringe. UM and if you look 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:32.280 at other areas, you know, asset management, pension funds, UM, 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.480 fintech developments, those are areas where I'm not sure that 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:41.200 we have the same the same added security that we've 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:43.960 developed in relation to the banking sector. Now, there are 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.880 other numbers that are much more worrying. When you look 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:52.880 at debt. The weight of debt on corporate, sovereign and 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.880 household has has gone up by virtue of the stimulus 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.960 and the indebtedness that had to develop as a response 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.760 the crisis. Now, when the Euro was created, it was 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:04.680 started by some at the time that it might become 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:06.880 a reserve currency. Why do you think it really has not. 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:11.280 I think because the job is largely unfinished. It's very advanced, 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:15.200 and I think the Great Financial crisis as has moved 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.640 the Euro and it's in its institutions in the direction 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.760 of consolidating, you know, with a stronger backstop, with a 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:27.120 stronger set of institutions, and with more unity amongst the 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:31.040 nineteen members of the EU Area. But the job is 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:35.440 not finished yet. Banking union is not yet completed, and 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:40.040 and there is still too much uncertainty in the fiscal 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.480 policies that should be common to all, or at least 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.040 to share the same objective. So let's talk about Brexit 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:50.800 for a moment. When do you think that will be resolved? Um? 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:55.200 I think we will know on on on March, because 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:59.200 that's the cutoff date. When either there is a brutal 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.680 exit which would be extremely costly and and detrimental to 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:06.200 both the UK particularly and the EU too to a 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:11.040 lesser degree, or there is an arrangement that deals with 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:16.240 the period of transition into this new regime which can 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:21.440 be a variation of free trade agreement between the UK 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.560 and the European Union, which can go from the Norwegian 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.480 model to the Swiss model to the Canadian model, and 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.760 which will have to respect one thing which is a 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.200 big redline for many, and that's the Irish border, which 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.960 was agreed in this Good Friday agreement. But if Great 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.160 Britain does get out of the EU, do you think 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:44.040 that will deteriorate the European economy in a significant way. 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:49.440 I think it will be um net negative in all cases. 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.880 The variability of net will depend on the brutality of 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:57.160 the exit. The more brutal, the more negativities, and I 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.520 think it will be in any circumstances most severe for 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.800 the UK, then it will be for the rest of 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.560 the European Union. And within the European Union you have 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.160 a few countries that will be more exposed than others, 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.920 those that deal frequently with the UK, such as Ireland, 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.720 probably Belgium, probably the Netherlands. So have you noticed that 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.320 when there's a very difficult problem, sometimes the men don't 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:20.200 want to do, which they give it a woman to do. 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:22.800 So you said it not me well that the Prime 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:24.680 Minister of Great Britain as a woman, and none of 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:26.600 the men seem to want to take that job because 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.920 they know it's a very difficult, no wind, no win situation. 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.200 Now they're probably prepared to come and take the job afterwards. 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:37.320 So yeah, probably the case. Okay, let's talk about another 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.600 part of the world, China. Do you worry about Chinese 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.080 growth going down? You have worried about Chinese debt or not? 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.960 Chinese growth has been going down regularly for the last 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:48.840 ten years or so. Remember the days when it was 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:52.480 a double digit So it's gradually come down. And every 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.560 time it was moving from a ten to a nine, 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.120 to an eight to and seven, there was always trepidation. 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:00.640 And I've heard so many times that China was going 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:06.920 to collapse. It hasn't collapsed. It has certainly held a 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.680 great deal at the global world economy at the time 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.960 of the financial crisis, because it was certainly one of 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:17.200 the first, if not the first, country to come out 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:21.280 with a huge package of stimulus in order to kick 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:27.640 start the economy. So, yes, it is heavily indebted. Um, yes, 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.480 they're trying to bring that in. But at the same time, 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.720 it's a country that has a huge population which has 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:40.840 massive transition issues to deal with, and we're um the 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.720 necessary reduction of growth that we're seeing by virtue of 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:47.960 the size of this economy now has to be monitored, 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.840 has to be under control in order to tame any 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.919 any risk of conflict. That that's how I see it. 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.200 What about the tariffs. President Trump has been talking about 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:01.160 imposing terroriffs and has imposed tariffs against and some other 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:02.840 parts of the world. Do you think that's a plus 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.719 for the global economy or you think it's not. I 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:10.800 think that tariffs are not a good idea in general 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:16.479 if they impact trade to the point that trade no 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.920 longer plays the key role as an engine for growth. 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:22.439 What do we see in the last third years. We 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:27.159 see trade growing faster than growth, so it's been a 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:31.520 driving engine for growth. We see lots of people taken 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.919 out of poverty. We see the cost of living in 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:40.360 advanced economies, including in the United States, lower by virtue 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:45.320 of cheaper refrigerator, cheaper television sets, cheaper telephones, and so 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:47.720 on and so forth, because they are made in countries 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.240 were cost so much lower. So there has been huge benefits, 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.479 not only benefits, but there have been huge benefits and 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:58.320 I don't think we can dispense of those benefits going forward. 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.959 So my take on that is fix it, don't break it. 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.280 Because trade needs fixing, there's no question about it. And 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:09.600 I think that President Trump has put the finger right 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:14.200 where it hurts. There are issues about the trade rules 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.879 and organizations that need to be addressed and dealt with. 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:22.080 Let me ask you this, Um, you have spoken about 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.600 the fact that women should be in corporate boards more 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.639 than they have been, core board boardrooms and CEOs, and 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:30.080 perhaps you think you've made a lot of progress, And 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:32.719 why do you think women should be more represented in 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:37.000 these positions. I think there's a very clear economic case 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.359 now that more moment on the board, more women on 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:47.040 the executive committees and management teams, actually generate better returns, 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:51.359 better results, and better profits. So if even if you 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:56.280 have a very very um cold heart, no moral imperatives, 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.639 and no sympathy for women and for the principle of 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:03.800 in inclusion, even if you were that person, you have 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:07.119 to consider including women and bringing them to the table 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:13.680 and to all the tables. Have we made progress? Some? Yes? 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:16.160 And when I look at numbers, it tells me that 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:20.919 we have made progress altogether. Do we still have a 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:24.000 long way to go. Yes, as well. Now, did you 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:26.200 experience a lot of discrimination because you were a woman 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:27.919 as you were rising up in your career and you 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:33.360 feel you're still experiencing it today. I did experience discrimination 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.959 from from the you know, the first day when I 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:39.880 interviewed with with law firms, where I was told back 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:43.520 in those days that I would never make partnership because 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:46.959 I was a woman, Or when I was regarded by 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:51.119 Japanese clients, for instance, in those days as as a 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:54.240 woman who can serve coffee, when I was actually a 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:59.199 practicing attorney, drafting contracts and negotiating for them. And and 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.560 they are still instances when you know, I walk in 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:07.920 a room full of men and I can just tell 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:12.080 that there is this little smile about their face, which 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:15.880 is either here she goes again, she's going to talk 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:20.080 about women, or I wonder what she has to say. 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:24.520 It's less so the case, for sure, But when you're 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:27.119 in a minority, that's what you experiment. What is the 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:29.000 greatest pleasure of being the head of the I m 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:33.440 F working with the teams, and what's the worst part 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:38.360 of it? Having to sit through meetings which endlessly repeat 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:42.240 the same things and end up nowhere. Okay, well, least 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:45.120 she didn't say interviews that asked the same questions. You're 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:47.600 nice enough not to say that. I'm sure you've been 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:51.239 asked these questions before. But just before we wrap up, 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:54.920 you've said you're going to finish your term here. When 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:58.440 you do finish, you'll still be relatively young by most standards. 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:00.679 So have you thought what you might do when you 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:03.360 finish your term at the I m F. No, I'll 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:05.720 come and talk to you, David. Okay, you'll give me 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:07.280 some good advice. Now, when you're in the head of 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:09.800 the I m F and you go to have let's say, 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:12.480 lunch or breakfast and a restaurant in Washington or other 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.520 famous cities, do people come up for selfies they bother you, 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:17.320 or you can kind of go where you want to 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:23.199 go without being bothered. No, No, I'm recognized you. They 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:27.040 recognized me. They ask for selfies. They are very most 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:30.280 of the time, they are very very nice and flattering 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:34.240 and complimenting and and some and and it's very nice, 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:36.440 and it's it's a lot of ego food which I 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:40.280 take and store for the hot days. Any regrets about 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:45.960 your career, No, No, regrets like Poff would say, Okay, well, 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:48.080 thank you very much for taking the time with us, 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:49.560 and thank you for the great job you're doing at 0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:51.280 the I m F. Thank you, David