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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.

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Speaker 1: Never told your protection of I Heart Radio eighty. I

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Speaker 1: think you and I've already talked about some mock trials before.

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Speaker 1: We talked about our experiences and both of us knowing

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Speaker 1: pretty sure we were amazing lawyers and our attorneys while

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Speaker 1: in high school anyway, But have you ever actually been

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Speaker 1: present for court or have you ever been summons to

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Speaker 1: court outside of just oh but maybe yeah, jewelry duty too. Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I think the short answer is no, I have

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Speaker 1: one time been summoned for jury duty and I actually

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Speaker 1: got called and we actually did go sit in on

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Speaker 1: a case. I've talked about this before. It was really unfortunate,

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Speaker 1: I think because in this particul Kuler instance, the lawyer

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Speaker 1: for the defendant didn't show up because he had an

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Speaker 1: emergency and it sounded like a legit family emergency. But

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Speaker 1: because of that, the jurors, who were all annoyed to

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Speaker 1: be there, kind of were semi joking, semi serious, saying, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm against, I'm he's guilty, And the defendant heard

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Speaker 1: this and just kind of was like, I accept, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to say I'm guilty, which maybe he was, maybe

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Speaker 1: he wasn't, But I think that definitely hearing that conversation

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Speaker 1: um influenced him, and it made me feel really bad

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Speaker 1: because I I don't know, like, who knows. Maybe I

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Speaker 1: would have said he was guilty, but like, I don't

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Speaker 1: like the idea that it was sort of just thrown

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Speaker 1: out because some people, and you know, Jerry Duty can

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Speaker 1: be very annoying and very boring. But I don't like

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Speaker 1: that idea this is a criminal case? Was this like, uh,

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Speaker 1: I believe it was a criminal case. I think it

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Speaker 1: was about I believe it was about it was a

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Speaker 1: business is dispute? Oh yeah, but there was there was

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Speaker 1: possible jail time or sentencing. Yes, yes, okay, interesting that

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Speaker 1: was my one and only that I am thinking of

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Speaker 1: right now. Who knows, Maybe later I'll be like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: but right now, that's the one. So you never even

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Speaker 1: gotten a ticket. You have to go in front of

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Speaker 1: a judge. Noh? Was that a judgmental? That's that's pretty impressive,

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Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. I don't know, so yeah, Obviously

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Speaker 1: I worked in the court system very for a very

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Speaker 1: long time. I worked in juvenile court. The majority of times.

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Speaker 1: We did have a few adult cases, but there are

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Speaker 1: minor cases. We did have several I will say adult

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Speaker 1: cases where it was juveniles charged as adults UM and

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Speaker 1: we would have to be present for that. I have

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Speaker 1: testified before, and it's the whole thing. It's nerve wracking

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Speaker 1: to the point that I remember I did one case

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Speaker 1: and the parents were very upset at me because I

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Speaker 1: was obviously advocating for the kid um because I felt

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Speaker 1: like there was a lot of injustices, so many things

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Speaker 1: and oftentimes the kids don't get a voice, especially if

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Speaker 1: it's against their own parents. And no judgments on parents,

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Speaker 1: because I know parenting is hard, but there are some

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Speaker 1: things that like this is obvious, what's happening, let's stop this.

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Speaker 1: And I got off the stand and they the public

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Speaker 1: defenders and then themselves are pretty interesting because they come

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Speaker 1: at you pretty hard because they want to win the case.

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Speaker 1: They try to trick you, like there are so many

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Speaker 1: things and it's not trickery as in like they trying

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Speaker 1: to manipulate you, but they will reframe the questions to

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Speaker 1: try to get a gotcha moment, and then also like

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Speaker 1: to be able to, you know, give as much help

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Speaker 1: to their clients as well. But I did come off

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Speaker 1: one time and the bailiffs like, man, they were really

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Speaker 1: trying to get you. But you did good. You didn't

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Speaker 1: amos like oh thanks those moments. And I often do

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Speaker 1: as I told you when I'm under pressure or I'm

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Speaker 1: nervous black out, and I was like, I have no

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Speaker 1: idea what I just did. I don't know, but I'm

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Speaker 1: glad you told me that. I hope that helped me

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Speaker 1: more than hurt me. Um. But I've also been like

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Speaker 1: an expert, being able to testify what I think would happened,

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Speaker 1: why I was, I was considered an expert in my

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Speaker 1: field and whatever whatnot, and so I was able to

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Speaker 1: do all of that. But it's a whole nerve racking process.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know how much you saw of that trial,

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Speaker 1: but that makes me think that a guy could have

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Speaker 1: asked for a dismissal adjurors because that's a biased statement.

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Speaker 1: So this is me playing judge, not because my experience,

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Speaker 1: but of watching way too much criminal TV, I think,

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Speaker 1: but that just that's what it's in my head. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: that dude should have been like, hey, I heard the

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Speaker 1: adjurors say. It is because you were out, that's a bias.

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Speaker 1: Can't we getting new jurors, personal opinion? Whatever? But yeah,

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Speaker 1: so there's a lot of things. And for defenders and

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Speaker 1: for public uh defense attorneys, it's it's a whole thing.

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Speaker 1: And then das and districts attorneys there's a whole level

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Speaker 1: that they have to do. And usually the old pros

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Speaker 1: really just stood up there and just kind of stared

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Speaker 1: and would write a couple of notes. But I have

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Speaker 1: someone else really do it for them. It was interesting.

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Speaker 1: But why am I talking about all of this? And

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Speaker 1: why am I talking specifically about public defenders a little bit?

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Speaker 1: And yeah, if you're a good public defender, they are

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Speaker 1: hard to find because those people who actually put in

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Speaker 1: that work to get to know their clients as well

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Speaker 1: as having to really work over time for a case

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Speaker 1: when they're paid so little, so little that it's it's amazing,

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Speaker 1: And they should get a lot of accolades, and they

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Speaker 1: get a lot of hate. They should get a lot

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Speaker 1: of accolades as well. But we are today talking and

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Speaker 1: highlighting a woman who has vast amounts of experiences in

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Speaker 1: this and who will, hopefully by the time this episode

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Speaker 1: has been released, will have made history here in the US,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about Judge Katangi Brown Jackson UM. And yes,

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Speaker 1: because we are so up to date with the news,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're cool like that. We're going to times

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Speaker 1: MP the date we recorded this, which is April six two,

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Speaker 1: because we don't know what's gonna happen. From what we understand,

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Speaker 1: things are moving ahead, but very slowly, and this long

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Speaker 1: arduous process again has been extended for a few days

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Speaker 1: longer for the final vote, which would happen in front

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Speaker 1: of the hundred members of the Senate. It will take

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Speaker 1: that vote. And by the way, this is the first

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Speaker 1: deadlock since nineteen ninety one. I'm moving forward with confirming

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Speaker 1: a Supreme Court nominee then, And of course we know

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Speaker 1: that Merrick Garland did not get a hearing at all,

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Speaker 1: maybe it was just pushed out. But we're not here

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Speaker 1: to talk about all of that today, but to talk

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Speaker 1: about the accomplishments of such an amazing woman that is

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Speaker 1: Judge Jackson. So who is Judge Kentangi Brown Jackson. Well.

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Speaker 1: Judge Jackson was born in Washington, d c. But raised

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Speaker 1: in Miami, Florida. Both of her parents were in the

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Speaker 1: educational field, with her dad going from teacher to school

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Speaker 1: board attorney. And it was during his time in law

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Speaker 1: school Judge Jackson's interest in law peaked. She said of

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Speaker 1: that time. We lived on the campus of the University

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Speaker 1: of Miami, and my dad would sit there with all

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Speaker 1: of his big, thick legal books, and I would bring

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Speaker 1: my coloring books and I would sit next to him

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Speaker 1: and watch him study and pretend as though I was

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Speaker 1: doing work as well. That just seems so sweet doing,

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Speaker 1: I used to say, a specific lawyer. So that makes

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Speaker 1: a lot more sense for you. Yeah, pretending like you're

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Speaker 1: an adult doing books. So much fun. Memories to that, right, um.

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Speaker 1: And of course that interest continued and bloomed later in school,

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Speaker 1: not only as high school president. Apparently she was high

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Speaker 1: school president for a few years as well as like

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Speaker 1: a mayor of a school. I don't know what that means.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that may have been like a fun

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Speaker 1: this is how electoral colleges go, da da dada. But

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Speaker 1: she also dominated in speech and debate competitions. Her past

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Speaker 1: schoolmates have talked about how amazing she was and how

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Speaker 1: she was obviously a star student and when it came

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Speaker 1: to what she wanted, well, she knew who she was,

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Speaker 1: and she knew what she was aiming for, not only

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Speaker 1: to attend and graduate from Harvard University, but get an

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Speaker 1: eventual judicial appointment. And though she talked about all the

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Speaker 1: naysayers in her life, like her own high school counselor

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Speaker 1: who advised her to not set her quote sites too high,

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Speaker 1: and she proved them all wrong. She not only attended

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Speaker 1: Harvard but graduated magnum kum laude, but went on to

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Speaker 1: graduate kum laude Harvard Law School as well. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, these are some of the highest academic achievements.

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Speaker 1: Just in case you didn't know, because I didn't hit that.

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Speaker 1: I think I's hit kum laude. Want, Yeah, yeah, I did.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. This is how well I know thing.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna say no, I don't know President. I've

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Speaker 1: met the President's list a couple of times. Anyway, it's

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Speaker 1: not about me. I'm not the Supreme Court justice. And

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Speaker 1: it wasn't long before she started her path in her career.

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Speaker 1: After graduating, she served as Supreme Court Justice Stephen Bryer's clerk,

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Speaker 1: and with that opportunity being an incredible start to her career,

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Speaker 1: familiarizing her with the justice system, under the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: level through helping draft opinions at the time, she continued

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Speaker 1: on working in private practice and moving on to public

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Speaker 1: defense and onto the Appeals Division of the Office of

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Speaker 1: the Federal Public Defender in d C. In two thousand nine,

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Speaker 1: President Obama nominated Judge Jackson to serve as the vice

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Speaker 1: chair of the U. S. Sentencing Commission, and she was confirmed.

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Speaker 1: She was later nominated again by President Obama to the

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Speaker 1: U S. District Court for d C in twelve and

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Speaker 1: was once again confirmed. And she was President Biden's first

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Speaker 1: judicial nominee to the US Court of Appeals in d

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Speaker 1: C and was confirmed. Um. And those same officials who

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Speaker 1: confirmed her then are some who oppose her now, interestingly enough,

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Speaker 1: all right, um um, Yeah. And since being nominated by

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Speaker 1: President Biden to take the retired seat from Justice Stephen Bryer,

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Speaker 1: Judge Jackson has been scrutinized thoroughly by the committees, being

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Speaker 1: asked questions like defining what a woman is, past decisions

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Speaker 1: she's made on cases with a lot of Q and

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Speaker 1: on rhetoric, and we kind of talked about that previously,

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Speaker 1: but I think we do need to come back to

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Speaker 1: it because piece of Gate was mentioned as one of

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Speaker 1: her questions, UM and so many others. But behind her

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Speaker 1: the entire time has been her family who have been

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Speaker 1: watching and supporting her throughout the process. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: if you've been watching any of the Questions Committee hearings,

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Speaker 1: it's been nice to see them flash to the families

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Speaker 1: because it's so sweet, like the smiles and the tears

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Speaker 1: is moving for sure. Her husband of twenty five years, Dr.

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Speaker 1: Patrick Johnson, a surgeon at Georgetown University Hospital, and her

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Speaker 1: daughter's Leila and Paulia Jackson UH And fun fact, Leila

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Speaker 1: actually wrote a letter to President Obama to nominate her

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Speaker 1: mom to the Supreme Court when he was in office,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like God, that is the sweetest. And her parents,

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Speaker 1: John and Ellerie Brown were also in attendance, and if

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Speaker 1: you listen to her opening speech, she says some beautiful

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Speaker 1: things about who they were and how they shaped her life.

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Speaker 1: Wonderful UM and Judge Jackson said to her daughters, by

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Speaker 1: the way, during her opening statements, girls, I know it's

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Speaker 1: not been easy as I've tried to navigate the challenges

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Speaker 1: of juggling my career and motherhood. And I fully admit

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Speaker 1: that I did not always get the balance right, but

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Speaker 1: I hope that you have seen that with hard work,

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Speaker 1: determination and love, it can be done. I'm so looking

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Speaker 1: forward to seeing what each of you chooses to do

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Speaker 1: with your amazing lives in this incredible country. And with

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Speaker 1: all her accomplishments, it's no surprise that she has many

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Speaker 1: accolades to add to her name, including one Constance Baker

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Speaker 1: Motley Award, Empowering Women of Color, Columbia Law School, Distinguished

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Speaker 1: Visiting Jurist, Third Annual Judge James B. Parsons Legacy Award,

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Speaker 1: Black Law Students Association, University of Chicago Law School, twenty

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Speaker 1: nineteen Stars of the Bar Award, Women's Bar Association of

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Speaker 1: the District of Columbia, David T. Lewis Distinguished Jurists in

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Speaker 1: Residence at the University of Utah S. J. Quinny College

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Speaker 1: of Law, and during her acceptance speech for the Constance

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Speaker 1: Baker Motley Awards, she said, the responsibility of being a judge,

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Speaker 1: it means doing the work that is necessary to protect

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Speaker 1: the rule of law and to promote equality and justice

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Speaker 1: for all. Right, um, And of course there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of questions about her being a public defender in some

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Speaker 1: of these cases and about why she did it, what

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Speaker 1: it looked like, and she would make history not only

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Speaker 1: as the first black woman Supreme Court justice, but be

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Speaker 1: the first public defender to take that spot as well.

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Speaker 1: And for me, as someone who has been inside of

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Speaker 1: the courtroom, yes I was in juvenile lass, a little

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Speaker 1: bit different, but we understand that ven A law does

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Speaker 1: set up a lot of precedent for a lot of

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Speaker 1: these young people who should be getting rehabilitation but instead, uh,

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Speaker 1: there's punitive laws. And we're not gonna talk about that

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Speaker 1: right now, but seeing that need to be represented that

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Speaker 1: public defenders have a different take in these conversations, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's so important that she is able to

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Speaker 1: do that. And she even speaks on that that this

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Speaker 1: being a positive, that experience being a positive for her

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Speaker 1: to be able to acknowledge the law from a different standpoint,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's so important. Um. And so again

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Speaker 1: we are crossing fingers toes and all the things and

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Speaker 1: hopes that history has been made with Judge Katangi Brown

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Speaker 1: Jackson again appointed as the first Black woman in Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court justice. I cannot believe it's taken until two I

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Speaker 1: can't believe we're here, but that's okay. We're going to

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Speaker 1: celebrate it. And if you're wondering why we've been holding

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Speaker 1: our breath and talking about out this in such a way,

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Speaker 1: go take a listen at our past episode with Bridget

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Speaker 1: Todd talking about the significance and the controversies of Judge

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Speaker 1: Jackson's nomination. Yeah, and Bridget, we record that episode before

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Speaker 1: a lot of the hearings are started. We heard a

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Speaker 1: lot of these Yeah, these sound clips that have now

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Speaker 1: gone viral and Bridget and you know us, but more

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Speaker 1: Bridget nailed it, nailed like the sexist, racist things that

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Speaker 1: re encountered. So yeah, go take a listen to that.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully this is not going to be a super depressing

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Speaker 1: episode when it comes out, is going to be a

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Speaker 1: source of celebration and not something we're like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna say, which we're gonna We're gonna say, Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's a good celebration. Yes, yes, ses And as always,

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Speaker 1: if you have any suggestions for people you think we

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Speaker 1: should highlight in this segment or any other topic you

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Speaker 1: think we should cover, please emails our emails Stephanie and

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Speaker 1: mom stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find

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Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or Instagram at

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Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as always to our

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Speaker 1: super producer Christina, and thank you for your patience. Yes,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much for that. Thanks to you for listening.

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Speaker 1: Stop on over told the Protection I Heart Radio. For

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Speaker 1: more podcast from my Heart Radio, visit the heart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or have you listen to your favorite shows