WEBVTT - Bodiam Castle

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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<v Speaker 1>of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Uh, Tracy,

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<v Speaker 1>I have in the that we haven't really covered an

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<v Speaker 1>iconic place in a while. Yeah, we talked a little

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<v Speaker 1>about Griffith Park, but that was more about Griffith J. Griffith. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So I went through my list for one and I

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<v Speaker 1>landed at Bodium Castle, which has been on there for

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<v Speaker 1>a while. And I had to give the true confession

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<v Speaker 1>up front. There are people listening who might already know this. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>this castle came to my attention for sort of a

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<v Speaker 1>silly reason, and I'm gonna save that silly reason for

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<v Speaker 1>the end because it is a very small, silly reason

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<v Speaker 1>and it doesn't really have anything to do with the

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<v Speaker 1>castle's history. Uh. This castle is pretty unique in its

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<v Speaker 1>design and the extent to which the grounds surrounding it

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<v Speaker 1>are all part of that design. And it is also

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<v Speaker 1>closely tied to the very turbulent ariad in England's history

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<v Speaker 1>that runs from the Hundred Years War through the War

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<v Speaker 1>of the Roses, including the Peasants Revolt, which may have

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<v Speaker 1>influenced the castle's construction and how it was designed. It

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<v Speaker 1>is also tied to the lives of a lot of people,

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<v Speaker 1>as you might suspect for something that is this old.

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<v Speaker 1>But there is one man in particular, Sir Edward dallen Gridge,

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<v Speaker 1>who is kind of synonymous with the castle, so it becomes,

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<v Speaker 1>at least in part, a story about his life. And

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<v Speaker 1>what I really love is that this is one of

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<v Speaker 1>those cases where even in recent years, this medieval structure

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<v Speaker 1>has continued to yield some surprises. I know what the

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<v Speaker 1>surprises are, and I'm really excited. They're very cool. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The location of the land that Bodiam Castle sits on

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<v Speaker 1>has a long history of being recognized as valuable. It

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<v Speaker 1>sits on the River Rother. That river runs roughly horizontally

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<v Speaker 1>connecting East Sussex to the English Channel, kind of the

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<v Speaker 1>east to west situation, and it was valued because it

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<v Speaker 1>was wide enough to be a trading river when the

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<v Speaker 1>Romans invaded Britain in forty three. After the Romans, there

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<v Speaker 1>were early English settlers in the region who probably named

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<v Speaker 1>the place Bodha's Ham as an hamlet village, and then

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<v Speaker 1>that name eventually morphed into Bodium. But the person whose

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<v Speaker 1>name is most closely associated with the castle, as we said,

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<v Speaker 1>is Sir Edward dalen Gridge. Dalen Gridge was not in

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<v Speaker 1>a good place to inherit in the birth order. He

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<v Speaker 1>was the youngest son in his family. The family estate

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<v Speaker 1>was going to pass to his older brothers. He was born,

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<v Speaker 1>most likely in thirty six, to father Roger dalen Gridge

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<v Speaker 1>and mother Alice Rattingdon. This was a point when the

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<v Speaker 1>family was actually rising in position. Edward's grandfather John had

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<v Speaker 1>married up, so to speak, when he wed Joana Lynde,

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<v Speaker 1>increasing the family's landholdings, and Roger had made a similar

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<v Speaker 1>lucrative move when he married Alice. And his teen years

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<v Speaker 1>Edward dalen Gridge was already engaged as a soldier. His father, Roger,

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<v Speaker 1>was a knight under Queen Philippa, and in thirteen fifty

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<v Speaker 1>nine Edward accompanied his father in service to the Earl

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<v Speaker 1>of Arundel when their company went into France during a conflict.

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<v Speaker 1>This was the start of a long career of military service,

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<v Speaker 1>and Edward became a knight in the thirteen sixties. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're doing the math there, that puts him at

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<v Speaker 1>thirteen when he is going on these military missions with

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<v Speaker 1>his father, which was in fact the case, although he

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<v Speaker 1>didn't become knighted obviously until he was a little more adult.

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<v Speaker 1>Just as his father and grandfather had bolstered the family

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<v Speaker 1>fortune through marriage, Edward in turn married a woman from

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<v Speaker 1>a more prosperous family than his own, that was Elizabeth Wardeux.

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<v Speaker 1>Edward's marriage had been arranged by his father Roger, and

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<v Speaker 1>Elizabeth's father, John Ward, died in thirteen seventy seven. At

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<v Speaker 1>this point, Edward came into possession of a number of

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<v Speaker 1>parcels of land, including a manner at bodium Um. You

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<v Speaker 1>will see different calculations of the size of the acreage

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<v Speaker 1>of the properties, because obviously those property lines don't really

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<v Speaker 1>exist anymore. I have seen everything from seven hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>fifty acres too far larger, So a lot of land.

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<v Speaker 1>While the other real estate had various uses and Dalin

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<v Speaker 1>Gridge eventually became one of the most wealthy landowners of

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<v Speaker 1>his time. He decided that Bodium was going to be

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<v Speaker 1>his home. He sold off a lot of his other

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<v Speaker 1>inherited properties, gaining additional wealth, some of which was used

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<v Speaker 1>to finance the work that he planned for the Bodium estate.

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<v Speaker 1>He also purchased additional properties in Sussex to expand his

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<v Speaker 1>land holdings near Bodium by an estimated hundred acres. In

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<v Speaker 1>three he was granted a royal charter to hold an

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<v Speaker 1>annual fair there as well as the weekly market. Yeah

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<v Speaker 1>he was just settling right in dalin Gridge is estimated

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<v Speaker 1>to have been one of the wealthiest landowners in the area,

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<v Speaker 1>and that wealth was augmented by annual payments made through

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<v Speaker 1>various agreements and patronages that were arranged during his military career,

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<v Speaker 1>various diplomatic efforts, including forty pounds annually from the Duke

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<v Speaker 1>of Sussex In addition to knighthood, and a military career

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<v Speaker 1>in which he participated in most of the major efforts

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<v Speaker 1>against France, he had a variety of other jobs and titles,

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<v Speaker 1>including serving as Master Forrester for the lands of Edward,

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<v Speaker 1>Lord Despencer. He also represented Sussex in Parliament on nine

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<v Speaker 1>occasions beginning in thirteen seventy nine, so in less than

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<v Speaker 1>a century the family had ascended to be wealthy as

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<v Speaker 1>well as important in affairs of state. Initially, Podium was

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<v Speaker 1>to be the site of just a manner home dalen

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<v Speaker 1>Gridge was still a night during this time. He wanted

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<v Speaker 1>a place to live. He'd also amassed a significant fortune

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<v Speaker 1>in his travels at war as well as through various

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<v Speaker 1>appointments and associations. Plundering was kind of part of the

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<v Speaker 1>income package for Knights, and dalen Gridge had made the

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<v Speaker 1>most of this. It's believed that he profited from ransoming

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<v Speaker 1>captured captives a lot of time. Yeah, which sounds horrible,

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<v Speaker 1>but was kind of business as usual for the the

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<v Speaker 1>setup um. Two years after his home was completed, England

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<v Speaker 1>found itself in an escalation of the conflict with France

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<v Speaker 1>that threatened to approach Bodium manner. More than one thousand

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<v Speaker 1>French ships had amassed across the channel and it was

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<v Speaker 1>believed that they would soon attack sort of. So, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a little bit of debate here about how real

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<v Speaker 1>the threat actually was to Bodium and what really inspired

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<v Speaker 1>edwards next move, and we're going to get to that

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<v Speaker 1>in a moment. But what this threat meant, because there

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<v Speaker 1>were French ships amassing across the channel, Uh, this meant

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<v Speaker 1>that the estate's home had to be fortified. But Edward

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<v Speaker 1>Dallingridge opted to go a different route. He decided that

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<v Speaker 1>he was going to build an entirely new structure, a castle,

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<v Speaker 1>rather than just augment the existing house. So it may

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<v Speaker 1>seem like there's kind of a head scratcher for some

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<v Speaker 1>folks here, because the main threat was the French crossing

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<v Speaker 1>the channel. But Bodium is not actually on the coast.

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<v Speaker 1>If you look at it on a map, the distance

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<v Speaker 1>between it and Hastings Beach, which is almost immediately to

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<v Speaker 1>the south, is roughly thirteen miles almost twenty one kilometers.

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<v Speaker 1>So presumably the thinking was that the French with land

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<v Speaker 1>and then advanced into England. Also, there's that river there

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<v Speaker 1>that connects directly to the channel. Yeah, so there were

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<v Speaker 1>ways that France could have advanced fairly quickly to Bodium,

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<v Speaker 1>but it wasn't really in the immediate line of attack.

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<v Speaker 1>But Darling Gridge was also tasked by King Richard the Second,

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<v Speaker 1>who of course was very young still at this time,

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<v Speaker 1>to head the preparations for a possible invasion by the

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<v Speaker 1>French in Sussex. So he didn't just decide to fortify

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<v Speaker 1>strictly on his own, although it seems that the scope

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<v Speaker 1>of the fortification was something that he had kind of

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<v Speaker 1>decided on when Chelsea, which sits at the point where

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<v Speaker 1>the River Rother and the English Channel meet, was rated.

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<v Speaker 1>Once they crossed the channel, that was where they went.

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<v Speaker 1>So this did seem to start to be very real.

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<v Speaker 1>Dling Bridge had led the fortification process of Win She'll

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<v Speaker 1>see several years earlier in eight and also Rye beginning

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<v Speaker 1>in two, so he was a natural choice to give

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<v Speaker 1>responsibility to when it came to making fortifications inland, and

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<v Speaker 1>that of course would have extended to his own property.

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<v Speaker 1>The King gave his permission for the Bodium Castle project,

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<v Speaker 1>and that license was for fortification and crenelation, meaning that

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<v Speaker 1>it was intended to augment the existing home. The exact

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<v Speaker 1>phrasing regarding this was that he wasn't able to quote

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<v Speaker 1>strengthen with a wall of stone and lime and crenelate

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<v Speaker 1>and construct and make into a castle his manor house

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<v Speaker 1>at Bodium, which is Bodium near the sea in the

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<v Speaker 1>county of Sussex, for defense of the adjacent county and

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<v Speaker 1>resistance to our enemies. So in choosing to build an

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<v Speaker 1>entirely new structure about a kilometer away from the first

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<v Speaker 1>his manner home, it seems like this is maybe a

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<v Speaker 1>broad interpretation of that document. When you hear historians talk

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<v Speaker 1>about it or they write about it, crenelation is like

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<v Speaker 1>the hot word, um, and this is something that continues

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<v Speaker 1>to be debated. Right, So what exactly was the function

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<v Speaker 1>and purpose of this castle and why did he make

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<v Speaker 1>that choice? Rather than crenelation in its strict sense. But

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<v Speaker 1>all researchers have in terms of surviving paperwork is that

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<v Speaker 1>crenelation document, that permission document. The rest has been interpreted

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<v Speaker 1>over the years based on the available evidence and what

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<v Speaker 1>the castle actually turned out to be, and that means

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<v Speaker 1>that different people have had different theories about how the

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<v Speaker 1>castle was conceived and used, and that's based largely on

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<v Speaker 1>his floor plan. We'll get to some of that interpretation

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<v Speaker 1>after we come back from a quick sponsor break. Give

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<v Speaker 1>me recall if you're a regular listener, that we talked

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<v Speaker 1>about what Tyler and the uprising of one on the

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<v Speaker 1>podcast in June of That event, sometimes called the peasant Revolt,

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<v Speaker 1>was the result of economic troubles that had been brewing

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<v Speaker 1>for decades leading up to the point where poll taxes

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<v Speaker 1>are being levied against the people of the country to

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<v Speaker 1>finance at least in part, the ongoing conflict with France.

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<v Speaker 1>So for someone like Dalin Gridge, who was very wealthy

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<v Speaker 1>and who in his official duties, had helped put down

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<v Speaker 1>that rebellion, there was also a vested interest in protecting

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<v Speaker 1>his home and family, and that probably further informed his

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<v Speaker 1>decision to build a full fledged castle rather than just

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<v Speaker 1>build onto his existing home. Also, there are some interpretations

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<v Speaker 1>of the castle's design and structure that come to the

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<v Speaker 1>conclusion that more than offering protection from French forces or

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<v Speaker 1>any internal uprising, this construction may well have been built

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<v Speaker 1>for show and status. You just look at a picture,

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<v Speaker 1>you can kind of see how folks might come to

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<v Speaker 1>that conclusion. Some of the fortifications don't seem all that robust,

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<v Speaker 1>such as the walls being relatively thin. So we'll now

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<v Speaker 1>talk about the actual work on the castle. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>read a cute I shouldn't say it's cute, it's scholarly work.

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<v Speaker 1>But it was a fun discussion of how like look,

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<v Speaker 1>he was kind of like neu Veau Reese and trying

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<v Speaker 1>to show everybody he was fancy. Um, that is one theory.

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<v Speaker 1>The construction of Bodium Castle was very different from most

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<v Speaker 1>others because it was conceived in its entirety and then

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<v Speaker 1>built all at once. Uh. This is different than most

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<v Speaker 1>examples of castles that we have because most were built

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<v Speaker 1>in stages, either as needed doing something like that crenelation

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<v Speaker 1>that was discussed, or as funds were available. Also, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there are things that happened historically, like you know, ahead

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<v Speaker 1>of family dying in their offspring, deciding how to proceed

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<v Speaker 1>with the design and how that changes it. But it

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<v Speaker 1>as a consequence, Bodium has this rare distinction of being

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<v Speaker 1>really uniform in its appearance since it was also intended

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<v Speaker 1>to replace the manor home as the primary residence of

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<v Speaker 1>the estate. Bodium Castle is also unusual because the design

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<v Speaker 1>is for comfort as well as protection. It's emerging of

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<v Speaker 1>strategic defensive design and domicile arrangement. The exterior structure is

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<v Speaker 1>almost a perfect square, with round towers at the corners

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<v Speaker 1>of the square and smaller square towers along the walls

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<v Speaker 1>connecting the corners. The interior of the castle has not

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<v Speaker 1>been restored, but enough remains that the floor plan is

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<v Speaker 1>possible to discern. There was a huge interior court within

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<v Speaker 1>the castle, and there were apartment areas that were separated

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<v Speaker 1>off for the family's use. On the east side of

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<v Speaker 1>the building, with other areas that would have specifically been

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<v Speaker 1>for staff. There was also a chapel and a grand hall.

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<v Speaker 1>It's kind of cool the way the bed chamber is designed.

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<v Speaker 1>They would have been able to stand basically at window

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<v Speaker 1>of their bed chamber and look into the chapels, so

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<v Speaker 1>they wouldn't have had to leave their room to to

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<v Speaker 1>have to be part of services. Uh. There was also

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<v Speaker 1>a buttery which I want to put in my house,

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<v Speaker 1>a pantry and a kitchen uh. And in the kitchen

0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:15.800
<v Speaker 1>would have been to fireplaces. Those would have been kept

0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.679
<v Speaker 1>going constantly year round to meet the various needs of

0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.960
<v Speaker 1>the castle. Most of the castle is two stories. The

0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:26.480
<v Speaker 1>towers are three in the northwest tower also included a prison.

0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:30.559
<v Speaker 1>The entire castle is built of sandstone ashlar, which was

0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.760
<v Speaker 1>quarried about eleven miles from the site at Wadhurst. The

0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.199
<v Speaker 1>grounds were also landscaped while the castle was being constructed.

0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:42.360
<v Speaker 1>The whole design was intended to be visually appealing as

0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.280
<v Speaker 1>well as functional and at least in theory, able to

0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:49.800
<v Speaker 1>withstand battle and defend the inhabitants. The river was diverted

0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:52.440
<v Speaker 1>once again with a license from the King and a mill.

0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:57.280
<v Speaker 1>Pond and mill were both created under Darrange's instructions. The

0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:02.560
<v Speaker 1>land surrounding the castle was entirely transformed. Researchers writing about

0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:06.679
<v Speaker 1>all the landscaping quote the castle and its moat thus

0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:11.040
<v Speaker 1>form the center of an elaborate modification of the whole landscape,

0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.600
<v Speaker 1>involving the creation of a number of ponds and sheets

0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:19.160
<v Speaker 1>of water whose positioning has an ornamental impact. Yeah, definitely

0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 1>designed to be pretty as well as a strong, at

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.200
<v Speaker 1>least in theory. And in some cases these details that

0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.520
<v Speaker 1>created really a very picturesque estate were used in ways

0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.360
<v Speaker 1>that may seem odd or off putting today. For example,

0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 1>there is, as Tracy just mentioned, a moat and that

0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:39.280
<v Speaker 1>surrounds the entire castle structure. The moat is roughly a

0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.320
<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifteen by a hundred and fifty five and

0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:44.840
<v Speaker 1>it is quite pretty, and when viewed from above, it

0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.520
<v Speaker 1>frames the castle fairly perfectly. The castle itself sits just

0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.320
<v Speaker 1>slightly south of the center of the frame that's created

0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.720
<v Speaker 1>by the moat. In the moat, which isn't exactly square,

0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.040
<v Speaker 1>it's more of a wedge shape, would naturally make it

0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 1>difficult to approach the castle on horseback. Were on foot

0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.600
<v Speaker 1>with any kind of strength, so to enter you would

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.560
<v Speaker 1>have to pass over a bridge and hit a small island,

0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:10.120
<v Speaker 1>and then pass over another to get to a barbicane,

0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.680
<v Speaker 1>and once through that you could continue to the north gate.

0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.640
<v Speaker 1>There was also a small back entrance on the south

0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:18.800
<v Speaker 1>wall of the gate, which also had to be approached

0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 1>by bridge. But this protective moat was actually sort of gross,

0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.000
<v Speaker 1>as moats often were, because it was used for sewage.

0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.360
<v Speaker 1>All the raw waste from the castle was dumped into it,

0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.840
<v Speaker 1>and this undoubtedly made its smell horrifyingly bad, which justice

0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.440
<v Speaker 1>speculation here might have also had a deterrent effect for

0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:43.320
<v Speaker 1>any unwanted visitors, even for visitors who were expected and desired.

0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.120
<v Speaker 1>The moat and landscape and bridges that were used to

0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:50.600
<v Speaker 1>actually get to the castle, had anyone approaching, turning and

0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.200
<v Speaker 1>rounding the castle in ways that some researchers have theorized

0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:58.240
<v Speaker 1>might have been attended to show off the grandness of

0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:00.720
<v Speaker 1>the building in the grounds. I like the idea you

0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.080
<v Speaker 1>have the sort of exterior tour by the convoluted way

0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:10.520
<v Speaker 1>of getting in there turned right at the island. Supporting

0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.920
<v Speaker 1>this whole idea is evidence of a garden structure built

0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.600
<v Speaker 1>on a high ridge north of the castle, which would

0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.400
<v Speaker 1>have offered a spectacular view of the grounds. Also included

0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 1>in the castle design were keyhole gun ports, which were

0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.520
<v Speaker 1>not common in private residence castles and weren't really all

0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.000
<v Speaker 1>that practical, but certainly would have let visitors know that

0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:35.040
<v Speaker 1>Dalen Gridge was aware of the latest trends and battlement design.

0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:39.080
<v Speaker 1>My castle's fancy. Uh well, we don't have a lot

0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:43.080
<v Speaker 1>of information about is the construction process itself, or exactly

0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:45.600
<v Speaker 1>how long it took for this castle to be completed.

0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.840
<v Speaker 1>Based on records, it was done by the early or

0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:52.440
<v Speaker 1>mid nineties, so estimates put the construction time at less

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.640
<v Speaker 1>than ten years, sometimes far less. But here's the thing.

0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.840
<v Speaker 1>For all of that work, the French never attacked Bodium.

0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.040
<v Speaker 1>In June d nine, while the castle was likely still

0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.879
<v Speaker 1>under construction. The Truce of Lullingham ended the second phase

0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.480
<v Speaker 1>of the Hundred Years War. In thirteen Dallen Gridge was

0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.760
<v Speaker 1>made a member of the King's Council. That was a

0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.840
<v Speaker 1>role in which he served until thirteen ninety three, and

0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.080
<v Speaker 1>as part of his duties, he went to France again,

0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:21.680
<v Speaker 1>this time to survey defenses in Calais and overlapping duty

0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.320
<v Speaker 1>was also given him when he was made Keeper of

0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.560
<v Speaker 1>London in June of two uh That duty was taken

0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.200
<v Speaker 1>from him the following months because he was determined to

0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.120
<v Speaker 1>be too lenient. This is when there was a lot

0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:38.200
<v Speaker 1>of unrest going on in London and Dally Gridge died

0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.679
<v Speaker 1>somewhere between this point where that job was rescinded and

0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.600
<v Speaker 1>the spring of thirteen ninety four when he is listed

0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.600
<v Speaker 1>in records as deceased. That would put him somewhere around

0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.639
<v Speaker 1>forty seven years old, so he barely had time to

0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:56.240
<v Speaker 1>enjoy his grand castle and grounds. Bodium Castle remained in

0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.920
<v Speaker 1>the ownership of Sir Edward dalling Gridge's descendants, but eventually

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.480
<v Speaker 1>there were no dallen Grids left and the castle was

0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.320
<v Speaker 1>gained by the Lukener family in marriage. That was in

0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.840
<v Speaker 1>the mid fourteen hundreds. The Wars of the Roses would

0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.960
<v Speaker 1>be the next pivotal historical events in the story of

0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.840
<v Speaker 1>the castle, because Sir Thomas Luchner was on the Lancastrian

0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:19.960
<v Speaker 1>side of the war, the opposite side of Richard the Third.

0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:24.719
<v Speaker 1>The King ordered an attack on Bodian and the castle

0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.199
<v Speaker 1>was surrendered. There is actually a pretty decent likelihood that

0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:32.719
<v Speaker 1>no real attack took place here, that the Lukeners surrendered

0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.520
<v Speaker 1>before there was any violence at all. When Richard the

0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.040
<v Speaker 1>third was killed at the Battle of Bosworth and Henry

0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.840
<v Speaker 1>the seventh took the throne, the castle was returned to

0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.119
<v Speaker 1>the Lukener family, and it remained a Lukener property until

0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.399
<v Speaker 1>the mid sixteen hundreds. At the end of that line,

0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:49.879
<v Speaker 1>the estate was divvied up and it passed through a

0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:53.119
<v Speaker 1>number of hands. During the period from the mid fifteen

0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.480
<v Speaker 1>hundreds to the eighteen hundreds, lots of different people owned Bodium,

0:18:56.560 --> 0:19:00.760
<v Speaker 1>but nobody actually lived there. The castle was unfortunately uncared for,

0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:04.280
<v Speaker 1>and it fell into ruin. None of its owners seemed

0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.000
<v Speaker 1>to really pay much of any attention to the structure

0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.199
<v Speaker 1>in any meaningful way, and so it was purchased by

0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:15.200
<v Speaker 1>politician John Fuller in eight although it had attracted tourists

0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.199
<v Speaker 1>before then. We're going to talk about Fuller's plans for

0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.920
<v Speaker 1>the once grand structure in just a moment, but before

0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:22.919
<v Speaker 1>we do, we'll take a break and hear from the

0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.480
<v Speaker 1>sponsors that keep stuff you missed in history class going.

0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:36.679
<v Speaker 1>So we talked right before the break about John Fuller

0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.320
<v Speaker 1>acquiring Bodium Castle, and Fuller and the next two owners

0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:45.080
<v Speaker 1>all shared a vision of restoration for Bodium. Under Fuller's ownership,

0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:48.320
<v Speaker 1>tower repair began as well as the restoration of the

0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.920
<v Speaker 1>main gate, but he only had it for twenty years

0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.679
<v Speaker 1>before he died, so they didn't get super far. In

0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.560
<v Speaker 1>eighteen forty nine, the castle and property were purchased by

0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 1>George Cubitt, who wished to continue the restoration that Fuller

0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.600
<v Speaker 1>had begun, and Cuba actually had the site surveyed before

0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:05.880
<v Speaker 1>picking the work back up because he wanted to approach

0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:09.720
<v Speaker 1>things a bit more methodically. In nineteen seventeen, the Bodium

0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.719
<v Speaker 1>Castle was purchased by Lord Curzon, who was a British

0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:16.879
<v Speaker 1>statesman and served as Viceroy of India from eight to

0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:20.560
<v Speaker 1>nineteen o five. He had a general interest in the

0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.679
<v Speaker 1>restoration of historic buildings and he managed to get Bodiam Castle,

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.320
<v Speaker 1>which he had tried to purchase from George Cuba after

0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.560
<v Speaker 1>Cuba passed and his son sold it. Yeah, Lord Curzon

0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:33.840
<v Speaker 1>could be his own episode and maybe one day will

0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:37.120
<v Speaker 1>It will be in parts interesting and terrifying and frustrating.

0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:42.040
<v Speaker 1>But Curzon invested in having the moat partially drained and

0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.719
<v Speaker 1>that revealed some of the old bridge structures of the castle.

0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:47.800
<v Speaker 1>He also had much of the overgrowth cleared it had

0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:52.199
<v Speaker 1>kind of been swallowed by plant life in many regards

0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.920
<v Speaker 1>um and he rebuilt and restored some of the crumbled ruins,

0:20:55.960 --> 0:21:00.640
<v Speaker 1>along with Scottish architect William Weir overseeing the project. Curzon

0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:03.440
<v Speaker 1>also had a cottage built on the ground separate from

0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.080
<v Speaker 1>the castle, for a caretaker to live in and for

0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:10.119
<v Speaker 1>a small museum to be installed. Lord Curzon donated the

0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:14.000
<v Speaker 1>castle to the National Trust in when he died, and

0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:17.560
<v Speaker 1>it has remained under that entities ownership in the almost

0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:22.080
<v Speaker 1>hundred years since. The restored castle eventually became a Grade

0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:25.639
<v Speaker 1>one listed building. That designation means that it's considered to

0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:30.440
<v Speaker 1>have historical significance and be of exceptional interest. During World

0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:33.080
<v Speaker 1>War Two, a pill box bunker was built on the

0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:37.120
<v Speaker 1>grounds at Bodium Castle as defense to guard against possible

0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:40.880
<v Speaker 1>German invasion, which of course, thankfully did not happen. Throughout

0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:43.320
<v Speaker 1>its time and under the care of the National Trust,

0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:46.479
<v Speaker 1>there have been various restoration projects for the castle and

0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:50.600
<v Speaker 1>the grounds. The entire moat was drained in nineteen seventy

0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:55.560
<v Speaker 1>when excavations were undertaken, and these excavations were necessitated in

0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:59.000
<v Speaker 1>part by some really treacherous conditions that were threatening to

0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:01.960
<v Speaker 1>take out some of the some of the walls surrounding

0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.159
<v Speaker 1>the moat, unsurprising given that this was the hundreds of

0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:07.280
<v Speaker 1>year old castle that had not been really maintained in

0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:11.160
<v Speaker 1>this way. The conditions were caused also by tree growth.

0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:14.840
<v Speaker 1>Careful excavation revealed that the wall was actually in better

0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:18.160
<v Speaker 1>shape than expected, and researchers were able to see and

0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:22.240
<v Speaker 1>record Mason's marks in the stones. We'll talk more about

0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:26.320
<v Speaker 1>the Mason's marks in just a second. In continuing examinations

0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.280
<v Speaker 1>of the land and its waterways through the nineteen eighties,

0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:32.560
<v Speaker 1>researchers looked at the water features of the landscape to

0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:36.440
<v Speaker 1>try to determine when various versions of them had been changed,

0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:39.359
<v Speaker 1>as well as which of them were actually naturally occurring,

0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:43.520
<v Speaker 1>and also together just any other additional details that they could.

0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:47.280
<v Speaker 1>One pond, known as the tilt Yard might be a

0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:51.160
<v Speaker 1>remodeled version of the original mill pond that Dalin Gridge

0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:54.320
<v Speaker 1>had installed. Other ponds on the land are believed to

0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:57.560
<v Speaker 1>have been used to dispose of waste that had accumulated

0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:01.520
<v Speaker 1>in the moat and was dredged out. Uh So, when

0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:05.119
<v Speaker 1>you think about the romantic ideas we have about castle

0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:11.639
<v Speaker 1>to over time, various marks and inscriptions have been observed

0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:14.640
<v Speaker 1>and cataloged around the castle, and some of these are

0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:18.120
<v Speaker 1>obviously pretty modern ish, believed to have been left there

0:23:18.160 --> 0:23:21.840
<v Speaker 1>between the eighteenth and early nineteen centuries. These are mostly

0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:24.280
<v Speaker 1>cases of people carving their names. You will find the

0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:28.679
<v Speaker 1>names Hoggins, James Brian, and Lady Tompkin at various places

0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:32.200
<v Speaker 1>in the castle, but other marks are much much older.

0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:35.560
<v Speaker 1>Some of them are simply part of the castle's construction.

0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:40.040
<v Speaker 1>There are symbols that are sometimes called bankers marks. The

0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:43.320
<v Speaker 1>mason's working on the castle would leave these in the

0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:46.879
<v Speaker 1>stones that they laid, because they were paid by the stone.

0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:50.399
<v Speaker 1>As each man left his mark, that let the master

0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:54.440
<v Speaker 1>mason easily count how many stones had been laid and

0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:58.680
<v Speaker 1>by whom, and pay everyone accordingly. But among the more

0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:01.359
<v Speaker 1>than eight hundred carving that have been cataloged in the

0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:04.560
<v Speaker 1>time the National Trust has managed the estate, some remained

0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:08.480
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more elusive in their meanings. In the

0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:11.680
<v Speaker 1>Trust hired a medieval graffiti expert. I love that that's

0:24:11.680 --> 0:24:15.240
<v Speaker 1>a job to make a thorough examination and analysis of

0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:19.000
<v Speaker 1>the inscriptions. That was Matt Champion who was brought onto

0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:21.600
<v Speaker 1>the project, which was part of a larger survey of

0:24:21.600 --> 0:24:26.560
<v Speaker 1>additional locations around the area. So that was done in

0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:30.639
<v Speaker 1>cooperation with the wind Chelsea Archaeological Society, the University of

0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Southampton and the Museum of London Archaeology Department, and there

0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:40.000
<v Speaker 1>were some surprising discoveries. First, Champion was able to identify

0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:42.680
<v Speaker 1>each of the mason's marks and make a pretty good

0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:45.600
<v Speaker 1>estimate of the size of the team that was employed

0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 1>on the project. It appears that there were six bankers

0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:52.639
<v Speaker 1>masons langstone work for the things like the external walls,

0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:55.919
<v Speaker 1>and three fine mason's. Those are experts who did the

0:24:55.960 --> 0:24:59.440
<v Speaker 1>detail work that sometimes included things like carving. There's the

0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:01.679
<v Speaker 1>folks that were down the castle, which then makes it

0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:05.040
<v Speaker 1>even more amazing how quickly it went up. But the

0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:10.120
<v Speaker 1>real surprise we're the witch marks. Almost every single window

0:25:10.240 --> 0:25:13.080
<v Speaker 1>and entrance to the castle has some sort of mark

0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:16.560
<v Speaker 1>like this, and they generally look like a compass inside

0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:19.959
<v Speaker 1>a circle or sometimes a pentagram, and these are believed

0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:22.760
<v Speaker 1>to have been placed near entrances in order to keep

0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:26.879
<v Speaker 1>evil from entering the castle. Adding a level of complexity

0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:28.840
<v Speaker 1>here is the fact that some of these were made

0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:33.240
<v Speaker 1>during construction, but others clearly came later, although dating them

0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:36.800
<v Speaker 1>exactly is a little bit difficult. But since the French

0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:39.920
<v Speaker 1>army didn't invade, and it seems that Bodium has probably

0:25:39.920 --> 0:25:44.320
<v Speaker 1>avoided any violent attack, maybe they worked. Really though, while

0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:47.280
<v Speaker 1>the name witch marks sounds kind of thrilling, really these

0:25:47.280 --> 0:25:50.600
<v Speaker 1>are essentially prayers carved into the masonry, and they offer

0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:53.280
<v Speaker 1>historians a peak at the values of the people in

0:25:53.320 --> 0:25:56.680
<v Speaker 1>the fourteenth century and beyond and the words of Champion quote.

0:25:56.720 --> 0:26:00.480
<v Speaker 1>The collection of ritual protection marks that Bodium Castle is

0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:03.320
<v Speaker 1>not only significant for the site, but for the wider

0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:08.520
<v Speaker 1>field of study. Some were undoubtedly created during the construction process,

0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:12.520
<v Speaker 1>whilst others could only have been created subsequently, showing the

0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:17.560
<v Speaker 1>importance religion continued to play throughout the Middle Ages. Um.

0:26:17.600 --> 0:26:19.280
<v Speaker 1>One of the things I love about some of these

0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:23.040
<v Speaker 1>marks is that they are these like intricate carve designs

0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:28.080
<v Speaker 1>and the idea that the spirit would get stuck in there. Yes, yes,

0:26:28.200 --> 0:26:30.919
<v Speaker 1>it's a little bit. It hearkens back to the Ruguru right,

0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:34.280
<v Speaker 1>like make something just complex enough that the dangerous thing

0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:37.960
<v Speaker 1>will get wadded up in the details of one way

0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:42.040
<v Speaker 1>or another, okay, form a movie Buffs in the Crowd.

0:26:42.119 --> 0:26:44.560
<v Speaker 1>Here is the very silly reason that I knew about

0:26:44.560 --> 0:26:48.159
<v Speaker 1>this castle. It's exterior was used in the film Monty

0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:51.359
<v Speaker 1>Python and the Holy Grail. So that shot that you

0:26:51.400 --> 0:26:54.800
<v Speaker 1>see of the exterior of Swamp Castle. The fourth castle,

0:26:54.880 --> 0:26:58.760
<v Speaker 1>the one that survived, that is Bodium Castle. That one

0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:04.600
<v Speaker 1>stayed up. It did. It did, even though UH the

0:27:04.680 --> 0:27:06.760
<v Speaker 1>Air did not want to inherit it, but only wanted

0:27:06.800 --> 0:27:13.440
<v Speaker 1>to sing. Bodium Castle is open to visitors, although as

0:27:13.480 --> 0:27:16.040
<v Speaker 1>of this recording there are some limits in place because

0:27:16.040 --> 0:27:20.399
<v Speaker 1>of COVID restrictions. Outdoor spaces are currently available, but not

0:27:20.440 --> 0:27:23.600
<v Speaker 1>the indoor areas. There's a cafe on site that's offering

0:27:23.640 --> 0:27:26.359
<v Speaker 1>takeout snacks, and so if you're considering a visit, you

0:27:26.359 --> 0:27:29.320
<v Speaker 1>do need to book in advance, so check the availability

0:27:29.359 --> 0:27:32.639
<v Speaker 1>and the restrictions ahead of time. Do you have some

0:27:32.800 --> 0:27:38.520
<v Speaker 1>listener mail? I do? I do. This is another email

0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:42.640
<v Speaker 1>that we have gotten about color vision deficiency. We've gotten

0:27:42.680 --> 0:27:45.720
<v Speaker 1>some good ones we have. It's it's a little bit

0:27:45.720 --> 0:27:48.280
<v Speaker 1>interesting because it's one of those cases I feel like

0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:52.399
<v Speaker 1>UH in instances where we have an episode and it

0:27:52.480 --> 0:27:55.879
<v Speaker 1>generates a lot of listener feedback. It's usually one of

0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:58.560
<v Speaker 1>a few things, like one, it's a contentious issue with

0:27:58.600 --> 0:28:01.560
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people, how having different opinions, or maybe

0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:03.919
<v Speaker 1>they didn't like how we treated something, or they're just like,

0:28:04.280 --> 0:28:07.240
<v Speaker 1>thank goodness someone's talking about this, or often I feel

0:28:07.240 --> 0:28:09.440
<v Speaker 1>like we'll talk about something and there's a whole group

0:28:09.440 --> 0:28:13.240
<v Speaker 1>of people that's like I feel seen um and I

0:28:13.320 --> 0:28:15.560
<v Speaker 1>kind of feel like this is the scoop with the

0:28:15.600 --> 0:28:20.800
<v Speaker 1>color vision deficiency um our. Listener Dana wrote in she

0:28:20.920 --> 0:28:24.160
<v Speaker 1>self identifies this color blind in her subject line and writes, high,

0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:26.239
<v Speaker 1>Holly and Tracy, I love the podcast and I've been

0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:30.120
<v Speaker 1>listening for years. Your recent episode on John Dalton's color

0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:33.000
<v Speaker 1>vision was extremely fascinating to me as I am a

0:28:33.080 --> 0:28:36.359
<v Speaker 1>female with green due to an opia color blindness, and

0:28:36.440 --> 0:28:39.320
<v Speaker 1>often find it hard to describe to people what I see,

0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:43.040
<v Speaker 1>like John Dalton. I also didn't find this out until

0:28:43.160 --> 0:28:45.200
<v Speaker 1>later in life, as I was in my senior year

0:28:45.200 --> 0:28:48.480
<v Speaker 1>of high school. Despite needing glasses since I was ten

0:28:48.560 --> 0:28:51.680
<v Speaker 1>and multiple vision exams, the standard color vision testing at

0:28:51.680 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 1>the eye doctor is a very distinct red and green

0:28:54.920 --> 0:28:57.960
<v Speaker 1>e which I can easily see as you described from

0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:01.160
<v Speaker 1>your research, it is often, though not always, a decreased

0:29:01.240 --> 0:29:03.880
<v Speaker 1>ability to see the color in question, and not a

0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:06.920
<v Speaker 1>complete absence of the color. How I found out was

0:29:06.960 --> 0:29:10.640
<v Speaker 1>in calculus class. The textbook had an Ashara dot test,

0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:12.840
<v Speaker 1>and my peers were all talking about what they saw.

0:29:13.320 --> 0:29:16.600
<v Speaker 1>When I looked, I saw something completely different, which then

0:29:16.640 --> 0:29:18.640
<v Speaker 1>shocked all of us, and we had to stop class

0:29:18.640 --> 0:29:20.920
<v Speaker 1>for everyone to hold up every color they could find

0:29:21.360 --> 0:29:23.720
<v Speaker 1>to see if I saw the same as them. Had

0:29:23.760 --> 0:29:25.440
<v Speaker 1>it not been for Calculus, I don't know when I

0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:27.960
<v Speaker 1>would have ever found out. Since then, I now have

0:29:28.000 --> 0:29:30.280
<v Speaker 1>a son who also has the same color deficiency as

0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:32.480
<v Speaker 1>I do. We've even had his color vision tested with

0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:35.400
<v Speaker 1>that same dot test. Most people do not know that

0:29:35.480 --> 0:29:37.480
<v Speaker 1>I have this. My husband does, and it's often a

0:29:37.560 --> 0:29:39.560
<v Speaker 1>joke at our house and some of our close friends.

0:29:39.760 --> 0:29:41.800
<v Speaker 1>But I do not enjoy being in the spotlight of it,

0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:44.160
<v Speaker 1>and I don't like spending thirty plus minutes every time

0:29:44.200 --> 0:29:46.640
<v Speaker 1>I do share it explaining to people that yes, I

0:29:46.680 --> 0:29:49.719
<v Speaker 1>can see stoplights. So I don't tell people often, and

0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:51.400
<v Speaker 1>now when I do tell them, I'll just send them

0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:54.280
<v Speaker 1>to your podcast instead of explaining it all, and hopefully

0:29:54.320 --> 0:29:56.720
<v Speaker 1>they'll stop holding up every color of the six or

0:29:56.800 --> 0:29:59.680
<v Speaker 1>seven if you ask Dalton colored rainbow for me to

0:29:59.760 --> 0:30:02.160
<v Speaker 1>check for them. Ha ha ha. Thank you for all your

0:30:02.160 --> 0:30:04.800
<v Speaker 1>hard work and the research eating for the podcast. I

0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:07.480
<v Speaker 1>love this. It is interesting, right you. That's one of

0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:09.800
<v Speaker 1>those cases where I feel like there's a lesson here

0:30:09.880 --> 0:30:13.320
<v Speaker 1>of like, I love when people are curious, and I

0:30:13.360 --> 0:30:15.880
<v Speaker 1>have done this before, so I'm not. Um, I'm not

0:30:15.960 --> 0:30:19.240
<v Speaker 1>calling anybody out or trying to be critical of anyone.

0:30:19.560 --> 0:30:22.160
<v Speaker 1>When you find out someone is different from you and

0:30:22.200 --> 0:30:24.880
<v Speaker 1>you're super interested and you want to ask a cajillion questions,

0:30:24.960 --> 0:30:27.920
<v Speaker 1>but it's worth considering if that person has answered those

0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:35.000
<v Speaker 1>cajillion questions in their lives. Yeah. So, um, it's a lesson.

0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:37.360
<v Speaker 1>I always need to be reminded of that. It's sometimes

0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:39.760
<v Speaker 1>easier instead of going how do you see this? Or

0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:41.920
<v Speaker 1>how do you understand this? Or how does your culture

0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:44.000
<v Speaker 1>do this? You could go, hey, is there a good

0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:47.000
<v Speaker 1>resource you could point me to where I could learn

0:30:47.040 --> 0:30:49.400
<v Speaker 1>more about this? Unless someone really wants to share it all,

0:30:49.400 --> 0:30:52.160
<v Speaker 1>in which case it's cool. But always please be respectful

0:30:52.200 --> 0:30:55.200
<v Speaker 1>of people's time when trying to understand what is different

0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:58.800
<v Speaker 1>about their life from yours. Sure, yeah, yeah, my mom

0:30:58.920 --> 0:31:01.200
<v Speaker 1>used to have a thing program into her speech generating

0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:04.160
<v Speaker 1>device that would she could just hit one button and

0:31:04.200 --> 0:31:09.240
<v Speaker 1>it would explain the whole thing. That is smart because

0:31:09.280 --> 0:31:14.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure there's been a kigelion of those. Um. Yeah,

0:31:14.600 --> 0:31:16.960
<v Speaker 1>and usually I mean again, I don't want to make

0:31:16.960 --> 0:31:19.040
<v Speaker 1>anybody feel bad. That usually comes from a very good

0:31:19.040 --> 0:31:22.760
<v Speaker 1>place of wanting to like understand and connect, but it

0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:26.000
<v Speaker 1>can be a bit labor intensive for the person who

0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:28.000
<v Speaker 1>has to do the work of explaining it to everyone

0:31:28.080 --> 0:31:30.960
<v Speaker 1>who doesn't understand. Um. So thank you, thank you, thank

0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:34.360
<v Speaker 1>you for Danta for writing us, because it offered that

0:31:34.600 --> 0:31:37.520
<v Speaker 1>that moment both to remind myself and anyone else who

0:31:37.600 --> 0:31:39.800
<v Speaker 1>cares to to think about it in those terms that

0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:43.040
<v Speaker 1>it's always good to give people the option to point

0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:45.760
<v Speaker 1>you towards a resource or just tell you to go

0:31:45.800 --> 0:31:48.480
<v Speaker 1>to the library. Um, when libraries are a thing, go

0:31:48.600 --> 0:31:52.360
<v Speaker 1>to your online library, search it. See if your library

0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:56.640
<v Speaker 1>has a really handy no contact pickup, which mind does

0:31:56.720 --> 0:32:00.200
<v Speaker 1>and it's great. Yeah. Um, So thank you, thank you,

0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:02.040
<v Speaker 1>thank you. If you would like to write to us,

0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:04.800
<v Speaker 1>you can do that at History Podcast at iHeart radio

0:32:04.840 --> 0:32:07.040
<v Speaker 1>dot com. You can also find us on social media

0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:10.160
<v Speaker 1>as missed in History and if you want to subscribe

0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:12.280
<v Speaker 1>to the podcast and you haven't gotten around to that yet,

0:32:12.360 --> 0:32:14.840
<v Speaker 1>also no criticism there, but it's super easy if you'd

0:32:14.840 --> 0:32:16.400
<v Speaker 1>like to, you can do that on the I heart

0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:19.160
<v Speaker 1>Radio app, at Apple Podcasts, or wherever it is you listen.

0:32:24.840 --> 0:32:27.000
<v Speaker 1>Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of

0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:30.240
<v Speaker 1>I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,

0:32:30.440 --> 0:32:33.440
<v Speaker 1>visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:35.040
<v Speaker 1>you listen to your favorite shows.