Speaker 1: The following. He is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot
Speaker 1: Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club Cowboys. This is
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, your war room
Speaker 1: for insider news and trapped analysis from deep within the
Speaker 1: confines of Cowboys headquarters at the Star in Frescope. And
Speaker 1: now your hosts Brian brought us, Jeff Kavanaugh, Kyle Yeomans,
Speaker 1: and David Hellman. It is Tuesday, February the twenty second,
Speaker 1: and we are back with a brand new episode of
Speaker 1: the Draft Show for y'all. Like the Big Voice said,
Speaker 1: I am David Hellman. I'm joined as usual by Kyle
Speaker 1: Yeoman's Brian brought us Jeff Kavanaugh. Morning fellows. How are
Speaker 1: we doing? Doing well? Doing well? Thank you. I gotta
Speaker 1: be honest, Brian, I'm I mean, I'm happy about the
Speaker 1: news with the Combine that we're going to get to,
Speaker 1: but I'm a little disappointed because I thought I might
Speaker 1: be able to get a rant out of you today
Speaker 1: with everything that was going on with basically a threatened
Speaker 1: boycott of the activities at the Combine. I know how
Speaker 1: near and dear all of that is to your heart,
Speaker 1: and I just I thought you might have some fire
Speaker 1: to spit at us today if we thought the combine
Speaker 1: wasn't going to happen the way it normally does. No,
Speaker 1: I think that I've come to realization though, that we're
Speaker 1: all going to go to Tallahassee in Gainesville and Baton
Speaker 1: Rouge in Los Angeles. We're still going to do that
Speaker 1: after the combine. The most important thing about that combine
Speaker 1: is those medicals. And I need to know if I'm
Speaker 1: putting those tags on that board, that those players are
Speaker 1: healthy enough for me to take. So my rant about that,
Speaker 1: But then again, you're talking to a guy then nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety three was sitting there and wondering why they would
Speaker 1: ever put this on TV. You know, why would people
Speaker 1: really care about that? And now the league is having
Speaker 1: to agent demands because they're not wanting to tank their ratings.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, And you know I understand it's the NFL
Speaker 1: has done a tremendous job of not giving us any
Speaker 1: days off. You know, they've made this a year round job,
Speaker 1: which we're all grateful to have. But if they started
Speaker 1: messing with that, the agents had come out, you'd got
Speaker 1: the rant for me about the medicals. If they would
Speaker 1: have said we're boycotting the medicals too. Now you would
Speaker 1: have got the rant fair enough, which, like I said,
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit disappointed to not hear it. But
Speaker 1: just in case, in case you haven't been following this story,
Speaker 1: the NFL Combine is set the start in Indianapolis basically
Speaker 1: a week from today. I think the players get there
Speaker 1: on Monday, the twenty eighth. But there was a bubble
Speaker 1: rule in place for COVID concerns, and the league had
Speaker 1: all of these restrictions, and the players and their agents
Speaker 1: were basically like, wait a second, Like you're you're going
Speaker 1: to screw us over, Like we're not going to have
Speaker 1: access to our trainers, were going to be locked in
Speaker 1: our hotel rooms all day. And they basically said, we're
Speaker 1: not going to participate in any of these drills if
Speaker 1: you don't change the rules. And I think another big
Speaker 1: thing on it was weren't they going to clump a
Speaker 1: bunch of the skills and the power drills together? What
Speaker 1: they were doing binge and running and all some of that.
Speaker 1: Some of that hasn't changed. Jad hasn't changed. No, And
Speaker 1: I think that to me though, And it's funny because
Speaker 1: when this was all going down. I reached out to
Speaker 1: somebody that the Cowboys about Dallas Day, and I reached
Speaker 1: out about the thirty visits because I was curious, you know.
Speaker 1: And the word is they're still going to have Dallas
Speaker 1: Day this year, which they hadn't had because of the
Speaker 1: COVID situations, and they were worried about that maybe the
Speaker 1: thirty the thirty visit thing. I said, thirty days, thirty
Speaker 1: visit thing that they have, that maybe they would have
Speaker 1: to add more players to that that the league would
Speaker 1: give them more opportunities to meet with guys. But then
Speaker 1: the league came out and said, hell, no, well we'll
Speaker 1: do all this other things to kind of make sure
Speaker 1: that we have it and took it took all of
Speaker 1: thirty six hours, Jeff, for the league to reverse course
Speaker 1: on that people were going to show up. Oh, I
Speaker 1: think they would have showed up to Brian's point, and
Speaker 1: that's there was one major agency that announced last week
Speaker 1: where they were like, yeah, if they don't change this stuff,
Speaker 1: like our players aren't coming. And I think that is
Speaker 1: your real catalyst where it's just like, look, we're not
Speaker 1: going to do it, because look at the combine, the
Speaker 1: medicals are the most important. But if I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: out there and run a short shuttle and a forty
Speaker 1: and do these jumps and I don't feel like the
Speaker 1: environment is conducive to me doing it, well I'm not
Speaker 1: doing it. Yep. We've lived at that before though, because
Speaker 1: I could lose millions of dollars. Yeah, yeah, with bad runs.
Speaker 1: But we've lived with that before. We've lived with they
Speaker 1: weren't going to this time. No, we've lived with We've
Speaker 1: lived with the guys not working out. Like I said,
Speaker 1: we're all going to get in our cars and planes
Speaker 1: and stuff and head for all these schools, you know.
Speaker 1: And what's what I'll tell you what though, is also
Speaker 1: something that you know, the the NFL has proven that
Speaker 1: if you don't play football in a year, we'll still
Speaker 1: draft you. You know. That's that, That's that's reality. Damn.
Speaker 1: I mean that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: absolutely every single one of them. And there's there's a
Speaker 1: time where I wouldn't have believed that, And now the
Speaker 1: league has said, you know what, Fine, we had this
Speaker 1: COVID thing, we didn't have all the access to information,
Speaker 1: we didn't have all the medicals. We still put together
Speaker 1: a draft board, and we still drafted and a lot
Speaker 1: of guys had success doing this. The medical parts the
Speaker 1: most scary thing to me because you've got players now
Speaker 1: that won't run a forty. I mean, there's plenty of
Speaker 1: guys that you these these tops, some of these top
Speaker 1: quarterbacks whatever, they're not going to run. They're just not
Speaker 1: gonna do it. And you know, and it used to
Speaker 1: be that I was starved for numbers. It's really not
Speaker 1: the numbers anymore to me. It's more about now the
Speaker 1: it's more about the film, the medical and how these
Speaker 1: guys are going to fit into my to my program,
Speaker 1: which if you're if you're new to this or if
Speaker 1: you don't follow the combine closely. Brian's brought up the
Speaker 1: medicals a few times, which a big, a huge part
Speaker 1: of this. It's a huge when the guys so downtown
Speaker 1: Indianapolis has three or four medical centers, hospitals, and the
Speaker 1: NFL has made it into a science. Actually, our dear
Speaker 1: buddy Chris Hall, the director of college Scouting, still does
Speaker 1: I believe, Yes, he has been in since nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: two when I was working in. Yeah, he's been working
Speaker 1: with that and so all three hundred of these players
Speaker 1: are two ninety whatever the number is check in and
Speaker 1: they get MRIs and X rays and get stuff that
Speaker 1: you've had surgery looked at, and all of that goes
Speaker 1: out to the league so that you have a complete
Speaker 1: medical picture on each guy that's participating. That the drills
Speaker 1: obviously go on TV, but we all agree that that's
Speaker 1: the most important information coming out of this. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: thing about it is is these these teams are broken
Speaker 1: up into pods of doctors and you have the trainers
Speaker 1: and the doctors, so you might have five to seven
Speaker 1: doctors per pod, So these kids aren't doing thirty two
Speaker 1: individual you know, medical evaluations. Now. The great thing about
Speaker 1: the medical evalue at the combine is again the doctor's
Speaker 1: all working together, the team's all working together, sharing information,
Speaker 1: grades and stuff like that. It really is well done,
Speaker 1: well put together by the trainers and how they do that.
Speaker 1: But this is the first time that you get to
Speaker 1: see these kids, because there used to be a time
Speaker 1: in the early nineties when I started, where you were
Speaker 1: able to ask for the medical records of these players
Speaker 1: and you got that from the trainers. Now with hippolass, no,
Speaker 1: you know, getting that stuff so the first time that
Speaker 1: you know anything good or bad about a kid's neck, knee, shoulder, arm, wrist, lungs,
Speaker 1: whatever is at the combine. That's where a lot of
Speaker 1: things are discovered. That some of these kids play with
Speaker 1: a lot of ailments. But you got to know if
Speaker 1: there's something that is going to keep us from drafting
Speaker 1: this kid, you have to know that. Well, there's also
Speaker 1: like the networking aspect outside of it. When they were
Speaker 1: bubbling up, the medicals were still going to be a
Speaker 1: part of that, right, It wasn't necessarily a question other
Speaker 1: than maybe the guys that Jeff was talking about. But
Speaker 1: there's that networking side between the teams going out to
Speaker 1: dinner kind of getting they build a player inside as
Speaker 1: much as they get to see the medal. The fifteen
Speaker 1: minute the fifteen minute interview is a is a great
Speaker 1: tool for you know, getting to know these kids. You know,
Speaker 1: the better tool is bringing kids on campus here and
Speaker 1: getting to know them. That's the thing. I think that
Speaker 1: that's the thing. I think we get the best evaluation
Speaker 1: of the kid. Which, let me ask you, so this
Speaker 1: is where my brain goes and we've we've all been
Speaker 1: to the combine. It's one of our favorite events of
Speaker 1: the year, and so the NFL basically caved and gave
Speaker 1: into these changes. So it's going to go off the
Speaker 1: way it usually does this year. But it makes me
Speaker 1: wonder and I think it's an interesting thought because obviously
Speaker 1: the NFL is clearly interested in the monetization of the combine,
Speaker 1: like the drills are televised. We've talked for years about
Speaker 1: the potential to move it to Los Angeles or maybe here.
Speaker 1: Dallas has been linked to it a lot. But do
Speaker 1: you feel like a shift away from the importance of
Speaker 1: the combine is happening again? Like guys have opted out
Speaker 1: and it hasn't hurt them of seasons, let alone offseason stuff.
Speaker 1: Everybody's got a prote You just said that, and it
Speaker 1: just seems like going along with the idea that you know,
Speaker 1: players are willing to sit out of their bowl game,
Speaker 1: players are willing to sit out of the end of
Speaker 1: the season in this like trend of player empowerment. Do
Speaker 1: you see a future where like the combines not as
Speaker 1: important as it has been for all these years. I
Speaker 1: think it's definitely possible because we have advances in what
Speaker 1: you can get information wise anyway, right, like we watch
Speaker 1: the tape and you're like, all right, that guy's fast, Okay,
Speaker 1: that guy's quick. Oh okay, that guy's bendy. But now
Speaker 1: you have I think some teams will view it as
Speaker 1: things that translate better anyway, Like I don't need your
Speaker 1: forty time because I have your GPS speed in pads
Speaker 1: while playing football. I know you're the fastest guy on
Speaker 1: the field because we're tracking all of you. You are fast,
Speaker 1: so I could see it. I think there'll always be
Speaker 1: value in just knowing how healthy people are and trying
Speaker 1: to get to know them, which even that part's hard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you're coached players before they get to the combine
Speaker 1: to sit down with Brian Broadus or the Jaguars or whoever.
Speaker 1: Like they're coached on how to present themselves and powers
Speaker 1: like a job. It's a big job interviews. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: so you're like, your goal is how healthy is he
Speaker 1: and is he going to bust his butt to be
Speaker 1: the best player you possibly can? And you don't know
Speaker 1: if you're gonna get those answers unless like the college
Speaker 1: coaches are honest with you and they're your buddies, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I could see the combine either being modified big time
Speaker 1: or it won't No, no, I take it all back.
Speaker 1: It will not go away in the league. Won't let
Speaker 1: it go. It makes too much money. Yeah, it makes
Speaker 1: too much money. Yeah, that's why. That's why the bubble's gone,
Speaker 1: because the league wants to televise their combine and have
Speaker 1: everybody there. Well, I know for a fact that when
Speaker 1: you start to like I'll give an example. We talked
Speaker 1: about Derek Stingley the other day from LSU and the
Speaker 1: questions you might want to ask Derek Stingley and talking
Speaker 1: to people at LSU about them about him is and
Speaker 1: there's questions about Ed Ingram to the Guard as well.
Speaker 1: And but with Stingley, the words you're starting to hear
Speaker 1: is if you if you had if you expect him
Speaker 1: to be the alpha male of the group, He's not
Speaker 1: going to be that guy. He's going to need a
Speaker 1: big brother. He's going to need somebody to help him along.
Speaker 1: An example that I was given was if Minnesota were
Speaker 1: to draft him and Patrick Peterson were still at Minnesota,
Speaker 1: that would be the ideal situation. But those are the
Speaker 1: kinds of questions you want to ask Stingley if you're
Speaker 1: getting information from sources at LSU that are telling you
Speaker 1: these things about this player, then you want to ask
Speaker 1: those questions and see how he reacts. And that's where
Speaker 1: it's important. You know, LSU will tell you he didn't quit,
Speaker 1: he was legitimately hurt, but they'll also tell you, like
Speaker 1: you know, this is guy's not an alpha male. He's
Speaker 1: just not. He's one of those guys that the learning
Speaker 1: curve would be a leader and all that. Those are
Speaker 1: kinds of questions I'd want to ask. To Jeff's point,
Speaker 1: that's important to me. It's important that I figure out
Speaker 1: how bad his foot is with that list Frank injury
Speaker 1: and is it something that I'm always going to have
Speaker 1: to deal with or and once I get that taken
Speaker 1: care of, then I want to ask him these questions
Speaker 1: that I've learned about when I've talked to people at
Speaker 1: LSU about him. Just to play Devil's advocate, though, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can ask him all that stuff if you bring
Speaker 1: him to you. You know That's what I'm saying, though,
Speaker 1: But I'd like to know. Maybe maybe it's one of
Speaker 1: those things where maybe the answers he gives me at
Speaker 1: the combine, like, man, I don't I don't like this
Speaker 1: kid's demeanor enough. You know, Sauce Gardener, to me at
Speaker 1: Cincinnati came off as a better guy. He's a healthier
Speaker 1: You know, if you're up there looking at a cornerback
Speaker 1: at the top of the draft, the reason you're talking
Speaker 1: to Derek Stanley is because you have a pick to
Speaker 1: go get him. You know, that's where so if you're
Speaker 1: looking for a corner. I'm trying to separate, separate these
Speaker 1: two guys because I know on everybody's board, those touches,
Speaker 1: those tags are touching. I'm trying to get, Okay, what's
Speaker 1: the difference between the two. What's making one guy tick?
Speaker 1: What's making one guy's health not be as good? You know,
Speaker 1: those are the kinds of questions I think at the combine.
Speaker 1: To me, those are the benefits I could do without
Speaker 1: the workout. I really can. Yeah, I mean, the only
Speaker 1: thing the workout provides me is like the old krusty
Speaker 1: scout I am, is that in nineteen ninety two, I
Speaker 1: can compare numbers to twenty twenty two to nineteen ninety two,
Speaker 1: and then I have that data. That's the only thing
Speaker 1: that that's the only thing that that would work, that
Speaker 1: would bother people who are really into those numbers. Do
Speaker 1: you think it's valuable at all that the combine at
Speaker 1: least gives you excuse me, sorry, the combine at least
Speaker 1: gives you a baseline, right, absolutely, you know, maybe the
Speaker 1: field the baseline is the tape, the baselines. Oh you're
Speaker 1: talking about the numbers. Yeah, like I mean, maybe it's
Speaker 1: a slow track. But all these we joke about it.
Speaker 1: Every year. All these guys head off to their pro
Speaker 1: days and shave to tenths of a second off, no question,
Speaker 1: no question, because they roll out of their starts. You know,
Speaker 1: Mark Gorshack's not there like blowing the whistle and stopping
Speaker 1: them and all that. And these kids have rested, haven't
Speaker 1: been pushed and pulled. You know, they're more comfortable in
Speaker 1: that environment. Running down hill it Ohio State. You know,
Speaker 1: when you're sitting down their time and at the end
Speaker 1: you're like, man, that guy looks like he's elevated and
Speaker 1: he's coming downhill at you. Those are good times. But
Speaker 1: she tike them, you know, like I say, the old
Speaker 1: we're starting to lose, like Lucas oil is different. When
Speaker 1: we used to go to OURCA Dome or the Hoosier Dome,
Speaker 1: different track, different facility, different turf and all those things.
Speaker 1: So the numbers probably don't mean as much as they
Speaker 1: once did. I just wonder, and I mean, Jeff, you're
Speaker 1: totally right. I mean, as long as the combine makes money,
Speaker 1: it'll be a thing. But like I just think, and
Speaker 1: you tell me, Brian if you agree with me, like
Speaker 1: you've been doing this since the early nineties, Like, players
Speaker 1: just have more power than they ever have. I do,
Speaker 1: they do. They have a lot more power. And you
Speaker 1: know there was a time when damon have a first
Speaker 1: round pick and get to talk to Michael Vick. You know.
Speaker 1: I mean, now a player would like, you don't have
Speaker 1: a first round pick, Bro, I'm not talking to you
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. You know, it's changed a lot.
Speaker 1: The agents have a lot of power in this thing too.
Speaker 1: You know, these players, the Players Association, you know JC
Speaker 1: Treder and those guys. I mean they come out and say, hey,
Speaker 1: these guys don't have a voice yet, you know they don't.
Speaker 1: But players, you know, like I say, these players, we're
Speaker 1: gonna look at him, We're gonna draft him, We're gonna
Speaker 1: we're gonna scout him and draft him. But like last year,
Speaker 1: we learned. You know, if you can watch film from
Speaker 1: two years ago and determine how great of a player
Speaker 1: Michael Parsons was going to be, more power to you, man.
Speaker 1: That's if that's all you need. All you needs to
Speaker 1: tape and all you need the ability to evaluate and
Speaker 1: does he fit in your scheme and can you do
Speaker 1: other things with him? All the other stuff is just
Speaker 1: kind of like whatever, you know, the guy could play,
Speaker 1: he can play. I just think I don't. I think
Speaker 1: we're in for some sort of shift here over the
Speaker 1: next few years. Like that's just the overarching feeling that
Speaker 1: I get. And I think it's an involuntary thing that
Speaker 1: was started by the twenty twenty pandemic. I mean it
Speaker 1: started with the fact that you got COVID. Yep. It
Speaker 1: started with the fact that you had that combine in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. You had it all go normal as the plan,
Speaker 1: and then immediately the pro days were nixed, the visits
Speaker 1: were nixed. All of that goes away, and then the
Speaker 1: next year you had the pro or you had the
Speaker 1: combine or nope, combine, but you had all the pro days,
Speaker 1: so you got to see out of those two classes,
Speaker 1: which one matters more and if you ask some of
Speaker 1: these scouts, you ask some of the team other than
Speaker 1: the medicals at the combine, you really feel like the
Speaker 1: informational gathering that you once got from the combine you
Speaker 1: could get anywhere else along the way. And Jeff made
Speaker 1: a great point with the GPS and the technology that
Speaker 1: has advanced in this game, and that's going to only
Speaker 1: continue to get better and better. It is. It's wild.
Speaker 1: It's a huge thing these scouting departments in these front
Speaker 1: offices could use to Some will say that the Cowboys
Speaker 1: have actually drafted better in the chaos. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: if you think about it, their board picks, their board
Speaker 1: has been better. When you when you think there's chaos,
Speaker 1: just go with your board, you know. That's how you
Speaker 1: kind of look at those things. Is there going to
Speaker 1: be chaos this year? I don't know. Without a bunch
Speaker 1: of quarterbacks, top rated quarterbacks and really not a sure
Speaker 1: number one, I don't think there will be informational chaos. No, No,
Speaker 1: But they'll be. They'll be. They'll be, guys, because you
Speaker 1: have teams to have multiple picks. Yeah, and then we'll
Speaker 1: look to you know, we'll teams look to go up.
Speaker 1: We'll teams look to you know, you know, with a
Speaker 1: stand there and make picks. You know. I think that's
Speaker 1: where when you have teams that are holding a lot
Speaker 1: of cards ahead of you, you're kind of at the
Speaker 1: mercy of those teams. I think that's where other teams
Speaker 1: are having to deal with right now. Last thought, the
Speaker 1: Combine will stick around for a while because Dave, as
Speaker 1: you know, as a man who has spent a good
Speaker 1: portion of his career trying to hide in the weeds
Speaker 1: and see if you can spot people talking to people
Speaker 1: as part of your job, I do do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the Combines about all the combine stuff, but it's also
Speaker 1: about the incredibly rich people at the very top of
Speaker 1: the NFL getting together and drinking beer and eating steaks.
Speaker 1: It is almos. They want to hang out with their friends.
Speaker 1: It matters, It matters to the establishment, and that means
Speaker 1: it won't go away. That's a very good point. All right,
Speaker 1: we got into the nuts. We got it. We speaking
Speaker 1: of the weeds. We got into the weeds of combine talk.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about some prospects that we're going
Speaker 1: to watch the Combine in the third segment, but before that,
Speaker 1: we've got your questions coming up at Twitter on the
Speaker 1: twenty We will be right back to do that. At
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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Draft Show. You know the drill
Speaker 1: by Now it's the second segment, which means Twitter on
Speaker 1: the Twitter, and as usual, we've got a lot of
Speaker 1: good ones. Jeff, I feel like I want you to answer.
Speaker 1: I mean you can all answer this obviously, but I'm
Speaker 1: gonna start with you because be no Ron wants to
Speaker 1: know skymore. If Tyler Linder bamb Oh and jay Ron
Speaker 1: Green were both available, would you take Nakobe Dean over them?
Speaker 1: Kenyan Green? Sorry, oh gee, my Jayron curse was on
Speaker 1: your station this morning. I got confused. I'm sorry, it's
Speaker 1: not my great interview. By the way, I guess it
Speaker 1: is still my station, and yes, it is still your
Speaker 1: station for a few more days. Basically a classic. In
Speaker 1: a classic debate over available guys, like what do you
Speaker 1: value more between those offensive linemen or Nacoby Dean? All right,
Speaker 1: coming in hot here, m linder bomb one, I would
Speaker 1: take the center number one, Kenyon Green number two, Nakobe
Speaker 1: Dean number three. Nakobe Dean might be as good or
Speaker 1: better than the other two at their jobs. But man,
Speaker 1: people are not gonna like to hear this. Because Michael
Speaker 1: Parsons has been so good. I'm taking an offensive lineman
Speaker 1: that I love over all, linebacker that I love all day,
Speaker 1: every day, Oh all day every day. Does that mean
Speaker 1: that you would still take Slater over Parsons. I refuse
Speaker 1: to answer that question. It's a push. It doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: just you couldn't go wrong. But Parsons is different because
Speaker 1: Parsons is more than a linebacker exactly. Nakobe Dean is
Speaker 1: not going to line up at defensive end and get
Speaker 1: you and have the highest pass rush win rate in
Speaker 1: the NFL. Not gonna happen. Michael Parsons is a freak show.
Speaker 1: Nakobe Dean is an awesome linebacker, and I'd love him
Speaker 1: at twenty four. But if you told me that you
Speaker 1: have a great center prospect and a great guard prospect,
Speaker 1: I'm going the center, the guard, then the linebacker. It's
Speaker 1: the same argument that we had last year. At least
Speaker 1: we're consistent and the way we're talking about it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's exactly right. And Brian said this on multiple occasions.
Speaker 1: If you could have told me going into that draft
Speaker 1: that Michael Parsons was going to be what Michael Parsons
Speaker 1: was this year and the way that he was able
Speaker 1: to be utilized in a versatility standpoint, then you can
Speaker 1: talk about taking him over Rashawn's later because you're taking
Speaker 1: an edge rusher at that point. However, I'm right there
Speaker 1: with Jeff. I'm the exact order. Linderbaum Green, then Nakobe Dean.
Speaker 1: But this also brings up a question for me. I
Speaker 1: was watching Devin again yesterday out of Utah linebacker. Does
Speaker 1: he go before Nakobe Dean? He will on some boards
Speaker 1: because he's six three. I think so too. I would
Speaker 1: bet on Nakobe Dean as the player over Devin Lloyd.
Speaker 1: But I would bet on Devin Lloyd being drafted before
Speaker 1: Nakobe d I agree with you. I have him one
Speaker 1: two or I have Dean one, I have Lloyd two.
Speaker 1: But I could see Lloyd going quicker in front of that,
Speaker 1: and then maybe you get a conversation about that later on.
Speaker 1: You agree with that assessment, Brian, those three players, Linderbaum,
Speaker 1: Dean Green for me, so you go Dan over, Yeah,
Speaker 1: why because I feel like there's some second round guards
Speaker 1: that are capable players. And the thing about it is,
Speaker 1: I think there's some capable second round linebackers too, some
Speaker 1: guys that you could plug in and play. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've mentioned Harris, we mentioned Clark. You know, those are
Speaker 1: the types of guys that you're you're probably being a
Speaker 1: looking at right there. But I you know me personally,
Speaker 1: like I say, I think there's things with Green. You know,
Speaker 1: to me, I still hold hope. I still hold hope
Speaker 1: if I don't get my guard, that they'll come to
Speaker 1: the realization that they need to move Lyle Collins. That's
Speaker 1: my hope and that's my protection. And I don't have
Speaker 1: a really good answer at linebacker right now for you.
Speaker 1: I don't. That's why I have to go grab Dean. Sure,
Speaker 1: And but the interesting thing about what we've just did
Speaker 1: with that exercise. Two of the three guys at physical
Speaker 1: limitations with like lack of size and height, but are
Speaker 1: really really good football players. Yeah. So, I mean that's
Speaker 1: probably why you're sitting there looking in and potentially at
Speaker 1: twenty four, because if they were a little bit bigger,
Speaker 1: a little bit more taller, if they were Lloyd's size
Speaker 1: or height, then we probably wouldn't be talking about Dean
Speaker 1: at twenty four. This is an open ended question from Drew.
Speaker 1: You can take it whatever direction you want. Stop twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two draft picks that you feel would get more
Speaker 1: out of Micah Parsons. Oh, defensive tackles George Davis Jones
Speaker 1: at Yukon Federian Mathis Alabama. I figured defensive tackles would
Speaker 1: be the answer. Yeah. Is there is there another spot?
Speaker 1: Is there another position? Yeah? That's because Parsons could go
Speaker 1: rush the passer. That's that's what I would say. I mean,
Speaker 1: you talk about the defensive tackles and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: But where where Michael Parsons absolutely wreck your game? Is
Speaker 1: this a pass rusher? You know? So to me, if
Speaker 1: I if I knew that I had somebody that I
Speaker 1: could put in his spot that could run and tackle
Speaker 1: like he does. And while I put him down, you know,
Speaker 1: say he doesn't get to the quarterback, but the ball
Speaker 1: gets out and now I got na Kobe Dean running
Speaker 1: at football to make a play. Absolutely, that's a that's
Speaker 1: the that's the route you need to go. This defense
Speaker 1: would be fun as hell if Michael Parsons and the
Speaker 1: Kobe Dean and Jabril Cox all played for it. And
Speaker 1: I'm saying, you got guys that can cover, and you
Speaker 1: got guys that can run, and you got guys that finish. God,
Speaker 1: nobody would get seven yards down the field now, just
Speaker 1: be a straight wall across the way. I wouldn't I
Speaker 1: wouldn't bet on it. Yeah, Kyle wants to know if
Speaker 1: you were to draft Tyler, why did you just say
Speaker 1: as I could have just asked here? Didn't even think
Speaker 1: about that. I'm sad I'm not the host, Kyle not Yeoman's. Yeah,
Speaker 1: why are you tweeting me? Bro? You got my phone number?
Speaker 1: Kyle not Yeoman's wants to know if you were to
Speaker 1: draft Tyler Linderbaum, what do you do with Tyler Beatis?
Speaker 1: Could he play guard? Or do you just all of
Speaker 1: a sudden have a very quality backup center. You have
Speaker 1: a backup center there. Yeah, I don't. I don't answer,
Speaker 1: is you don't care? Yeah, Like he's on the roster
Speaker 1: and that's cool. Yeah, I'll be there for another two years.
Speaker 1: You know, you're always figured out. The one thing that's
Speaker 1: happened with this offensive line, and we all saw it
Speaker 1: with our own eyes, that was a problem last year.
Speaker 1: They didn't block well enough, they didn't protect well enough.
Speaker 1: You know, whether that's them, the line coach, whoever. They
Speaker 1: need to upgrade a couple of spots, and they might
Speaker 1: be a little trouble at left tackle on age and health.
Speaker 1: The right guard we talk about all pro and maybe
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of slippage going on there north
Speaker 1: of thirty. Yeah, and then you know with the right accle,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean there was some slippage going on
Speaker 1: there as well. He didn't he missed a bunch of
Speaker 1: games because he got suspended, you know. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean the questions you have, you know, you should you
Speaker 1: shouldn't be afraid to replace anybody over there. You know,
Speaker 1: if you're looking at that thing and being honest with yourself,
Speaker 1: you didn't run the ball, you didn't protect it affected
Speaker 1: the way you moved the football, affected the way the
Speaker 1: play caller called the game. You know, couldn't go to
Speaker 1: some things he probably wanted to because he couldn't get
Speaker 1: the you know, they couldn't run the football. So yeah,
Speaker 1: don't worry about anybody's feelings on that offensive line. You
Speaker 1: need to figure that thing out. And just from a
Speaker 1: pure roster building standpoint in numbers game, look over the
Speaker 1: last two seasons twenty twenty, you had Joe Looney and
Speaker 1: Tyler Beiottish. This past year you had Tyler Biottish and
Speaker 1: insert name here, it was either Connor Williams or Josh McGovern.
Speaker 1: Connor McGovern, I mean there was really nobody there, Yeah, Farniac,
Speaker 1: I mean you felt better about your center situation when
Speaker 1: you had two guys there. So if you wanted to
Speaker 1: keep Tyler Beottish around, replace him, but don't don't feel
Speaker 1: like you have to deal him. Just have him there,
Speaker 1: have him as a quality backup. We've already seen the
Speaker 1: revolving door of an offensive line the last two years
Speaker 1: as well, speaking to Brian's point, and having somebody there
Speaker 1: that has that starting experience is going to be valuable
Speaker 1: moving forward, especially if they're on a rookie deal, which
Speaker 1: Tyler Beiottish will be for two more years. I say,
Speaker 1: I say it all the time, but people are so
Speaker 1: afraid of having depth because they feel like they're not
Speaker 1: making the most of an opportunity. I would just I'll
Speaker 1: take the depth, like ninety nine times out apecially upfront.
Speaker 1: Dogs lead the way. We've talked about all of these players.
Speaker 1: Awg Ordo just just the animal. Dogs lead the way.
Speaker 1: Georgia guy, No, no, that makes sense here, Washington. I
Speaker 1: think the Twitter abbey was actually a like a beagle.
Speaker 1: I think he just likes dogs. Okay, um or she
Speaker 1: or she we've talked about all these players, but he
Speaker 1: or she wants us to sort them out. All safeties
Speaker 1: Daxton Hill out of Michigan, chick On Brisker out of
Speaker 1: Penn State, Lewis Seene out of Georgia, Jalen Petrie out
Speaker 1: of Baylor, stack him for me, somebody, it was almost
Speaker 1: in order. Mine would be Daxton Hill, as a guy
Speaker 1: who is a borderline first round sort of player at Michigan,
Speaker 1: he would be Well, I guess Petrie's not big either.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say he's the small one. Of this group.
Speaker 1: But he's also the one that, holy cow, can he
Speaker 1: fly and can play Nicol can play safety. Whatever Brisker is,
Speaker 1: Jiquan Brisker at Penn State is a dude that I
Speaker 1: really like while acknowledging, like I'm watching him and I'm like,
Speaker 1: is he an elite athlete? No? Is he? Like whatever
Speaker 1: you're looking for? Is the elite trade? I'm like no,
Speaker 1: It's like, what's he bad at? No? So like, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: that's a starting NFL safety. So I would go Daxton Hill,
Speaker 1: then Jaquon Brisker, then Jalen Petrie, then Lewis Scene, the
Speaker 1: Georgia's Safety, and I think all of them are picked
Speaker 1: in the first sixty picks. He's absolutely right the order
Speaker 1: he had absolutely right, nailed it. Oh what's up now?
Speaker 1: Anybody want peace? Yeah? Damn, who, Kyle? You gonna argue
Speaker 1: with that? I was. I was hoping we were gonna
Speaker 1: have a fight. A question. I've got Hill, Brisker, Scene, Petree.
Speaker 1: But they're all touching tags. It's literally two through five
Speaker 1: for me. You think they all go top sixty. I
Speaker 1: would think he's right about so maybe Brisker doesn't because
Speaker 1: he's an old man, like I think he's twenty three
Speaker 1: and he's a red shirt except twenty three by drafting. Okay,
Speaker 1: except if you're Terrence Newman, who they told us was
Speaker 1: too old and he played like twenty years. Good point, Brian.
Speaker 1: I just so, have you watched more Hamilton yet? Do
Speaker 1: you still hate him? Okay? Cool? I mean, well, you
Speaker 1: just he's probably not. He's getting picked in the top ten, right,
Speaker 1: So you have Kyle Hamilton as a likely top ten
Speaker 1: and then these guys all start going somewhere between like
Speaker 1: twenty five and forty. Yeah, I think so, and they're
Speaker 1: all gone by sixty. I've said this a couple of
Speaker 1: times in this show. I thought that that Dax Hill
Speaker 1: was the Cowboys pick at twenty four. That's before I
Speaker 1: really got into the draft. I mean I was. He
Speaker 1: was one of the first safeties. Him and Hill were
Speaker 1: the first two, and I kind of thought, Okay, this
Speaker 1: guy fits the profile of what you want in a safety.
Speaker 1: He can cover on the outside, he can blitz, you know,
Speaker 1: he could play down in the box, he could play back.
Speaker 1: I just thought a versatility. I thought of Dan Quinn.
Speaker 1: You know, this is really kind of with not knowing
Speaker 1: maybe thinking that dan Quinn was going to take the
Speaker 1: Denver Broncos job. But I kind of felt like that,
Speaker 1: if you know, if they got to carry over, if
Speaker 1: there's some of the similar coaches, that maybe they would
Speaker 1: use Dax Hill as that type of players. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think where you're talking about right around twenty four
Speaker 1: on back as when we're gonna start seeing these guys
Speaker 1: come off the board. Do you think the fact that
Speaker 1: Jay wren Curson, at least he was on your station
Speaker 1: earlier today talking about a potential return with dan Quinn
Speaker 1: coming back, if he's back, does that affect anything at
Speaker 1: all to I think that. To me, it's about players
Speaker 1: and number money. This guy didn't make money. You know,
Speaker 1: you can't sit there and say I'm gonna be loyal. Now.
Speaker 1: Randy Gregory will tell you that he's loyal to Jerry
Speaker 1: and Stephen in the family for what they've done to him.
Speaker 1: But how loyal are you? Twelve million dollars a year loyal?
Speaker 1: Thirteen million dollars a year loyal? How loyal? But if
Speaker 1: someone offers him sixteen eighteen million dollars, yeah, you gotta
Speaker 1: go do what you gotta do. So to say that
Speaker 1: dan Quinn being here helps, sure, but these guys have
Speaker 1: got to go out and make money that they don't have.
Speaker 1: They have a very limited opportunity to do that. Jeron
Speaker 1: Curse has the potential to get a signing bonus this
Speaker 1: spring that is larger than all of his career earnings
Speaker 1: over the last like six years. What is his market
Speaker 1: value like one point five or something like that? Not anymore?
Speaker 1: I would say, I would say I bet the two year,
Speaker 1: ten million dollars deal the totality of his deal. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: five or three for fifteen I was I was thinking
Speaker 1: something like three for fifteen, three for eighteen. I could
Speaker 1: see that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean talk a sixth round
Speaker 1: pick who signed a one million dollars deal last year.
Speaker 1: Like in the world of the NFL, he has not
Speaker 1: made a ton of money. Yeah, but if you when
Speaker 1: you study all the top fifty free agents and stuff
Speaker 1: going places and stuff, he's not ever in that mix
Speaker 1: the top five. Think he's probably he's played like a
Speaker 1: guy that deserves to be paid because he had played
Speaker 1: this year for the last three years, he would be
Speaker 1: in everybody's top fifties. I just think the world doesn't
Speaker 1: realize it because he's never been there like he was
Speaker 1: never a starter, and I do have that year consistently
Speaker 1: they talk about you for Pro Bowls and your market's huge.
Speaker 1: I think he was probably an alternate for the Pro
Speaker 1: Bowl if I had to guess. So, Yeah, to your point, um,
Speaker 1: I do think sometimes you overvalue the guys that you
Speaker 1: watched all year and you're like, oh, like, he was amazing.
Speaker 1: It's a tough position though. Yeah, he didn't play as
Speaker 1: a true safety. He played really all over and the
Speaker 1: fact that he created turnovers was tackling. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: was really a leader out there. I mean, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of really positive things you can
Speaker 1: talk about him, because I think coming out of Clemson,
Speaker 1: I know I didn't think all that. I didn't think
Speaker 1: he could cover and be all that that he has.
Speaker 1: I don't think you need to apologize because the league
Speaker 1: thought that too. He was a sixth round pick at
Speaker 1: the end of the day. Ye, Javier Brian, I made
Speaker 1: sure you had watched him. Javier wants to know about
Speaker 1: Leo Chanal, the Wisconsin linebacker. Yeah, this guy's a throwbacks
Speaker 1: linebacker in the way he plays. He's six two, he's
Speaker 1: two fifty two. We were talking about last week. The
Speaker 1: guys that potentially could be that Mike linebacker. This guy's it.
Speaker 1: He's a physical guy. He's a downhill player. He's always
Speaker 1: attacking the line of scrimmage. He makes his share of
Speaker 1: plays just right at or behind the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 1: In the way he plays, he can finish when he
Speaker 1: gets around the ball, he's gonna wrap up. He's gonna
Speaker 1: make sure tackles most every single time. I love the
Speaker 1: way he works through traffic. You know, he does things
Speaker 1: usually to engage. It's usually quick to get rid of
Speaker 1: the blocker and then get to the ball. The burst
Speaker 1: is there. He's got the ability to get on the
Speaker 1: quarterback quickly rushing from that linebacker position. So I don't
Speaker 1: see much of coverage with this guy because I think
Speaker 1: it's all underneath stuff. For him, it's kind of drops,
Speaker 1: sit in a zone and then react that way. So
Speaker 1: I felt like he was better when he could try
Speaker 1: and attack the pocket. The effort, the motor all that's great.
Speaker 1: So you know, if you like a player that's got instincts, awareness,
Speaker 1: is super physical, and he's the type of guy. Again,
Speaker 1: I kind of see him as a mic linebacker only
Speaker 1: because I really don't know how much you can really
Speaker 1: really play him in coverage. By the way, Chanelle Chanelle, Sorry,
Speaker 1: I knew I didn't have that. Now I got you.
Speaker 1: I'll get it. I'll get it. Remember that's my role.
Speaker 1: Jeff told me that. I think I think twenty years
Speaker 1: ago he'd have been drafted a lot higher than he's
Speaker 1: gonna get drafted. Yeah, it's a different game. Yeah, big strong,
Speaker 1: forward playing man, I will say, So he's got out.
Speaker 1: So you you just described like a fourth round player.
Speaker 1: I having the third third, Okay, yeah, I'll actually have
Speaker 1: Walker from Georgia Tyndale from Georgia ahead of him as
Speaker 1: my inside linebacker. Guys just out of curiosity and we all,
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things you hear first when
Speaker 1: you start talking about the draft is scout the player,
Speaker 1: not the helmet. But is there a balance there where
Speaker 1: you and obviously you're not going to draft Leo'shanelle in
Speaker 1: the first round, but you look at it and you say, Okay,
Speaker 1: a Wisconsin linebacker. He's probably pretty smart and tenacious and
Speaker 1: gets to the football, you know, like you just you
Speaker 1: kind of that's their m and you're like, yeah, these
Speaker 1: guys know how to produce like quality NFL linebackers, Like
Speaker 1: is there something to be said for that? Or is
Speaker 1: that dangerous? I think that you know, to me, when
Speaker 1: there are certain positions and certain teams that you didn't want,
Speaker 1: You never wanted to Penn State running back, there was
Speaker 1: a time there where you didn't want a Mississippi State
Speaker 1: defensive tackle anymore. Yeah, but ye, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Sometimes the narrative changes on these players. But I think
Speaker 1: what happens with Wisconsin, and they've done a much better
Speaker 1: job because their team's better. There was a time when
Speaker 1: Wisconsin before Barry Alvarez wasn't great in football, and they
Speaker 1: were always lucky to have one or two guys that
Speaker 1: were really really good, that were tough and hard nose
Speaker 1: and all that. That's kind of always been the mo
Speaker 1: about their team. They just had better players. Now they've
Speaker 1: they've gotten better as you know, as again through the
Speaker 1: Barry Alvarez era and stuff, they've they've found a way
Speaker 1: to scout better guys. And I think when you watched
Speaker 1: when you watch Wisconsin and you watch this kid play,
Speaker 1: you appreciate how tough he is. But Jeff's right, he
Speaker 1: probably goes higher, you know, ten twelve years ago because
Speaker 1: of what he is. He's a mic linebacker. That's really
Speaker 1: all he is. But if you want a tough one,
Speaker 1: that's a good one to have. You can still make
Speaker 1: a living doing that. Absolutely, ask Anthony Hitchins. Ye probably
Speaker 1: better cover guy Anthony Hitchins. Yeah, I mean Anthony Hitchins
Speaker 1: has had a long and productive career as a fourth
Speaker 1: round pick. Clearly he's figured our guys. Chanel views the
Speaker 1: forward pass as a trick play. Wait, what is happening?
Speaker 1: I thought we were going to meet up and smash
Speaker 1: each other another. What would you do? From Christian? He
Speaker 1: wants you to debate. I don't think your answer is
Speaker 1: going to be be on this one. I think it's
Speaker 1: gonna be a because A is George karloftis and B
Speaker 1: is Zion Johnson. Oh, I just think. I mean, we
Speaker 1: went over this last weekend window dress. Your board and
Speaker 1: my board would tell you that's Zion Johnson there, and
Speaker 1: that's George Karloftas there, and that's a tie. Ladies and gentleman.
Speaker 1: Literally even see, I think you tell me if I'm crazy.
Speaker 1: I like Zion Johnson. I think more than a lot
Speaker 1: of people do. I think that he is going to
Speaker 1: be a step in starter at guard and I think
Speaker 1: he's going to be really, really good forever. I just
Speaker 1: don't get the impression, mainly because of the position that
Speaker 1: he plays. I think Karloftis doesn't hang around that long. Well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing, here's the thing, mister Hellman, Okay, tell me.
Speaker 1: Hutchinson goes before him, Thibodeau goes before him. Those are
Speaker 1: top ten guys. Crayvon Walker goes in the top fifteen.
Speaker 1: Everybody's saying, Jermaine Johnson after the Senior Bowl, could he
Speaker 1: go before Karloftis. Maybe David Ojabo. A lot of people
Speaker 1: are telling me, will go before George Karloftus. There is
Speaker 1: a chance that Karloftus is like the sixth or seventh
Speaker 1: edge off the board fair that can't make twenty four.
Speaker 1: Now it can, No, it definitely can. And like I'm not,
Speaker 1: I'm not like, oh, just forget about it. It's it
Speaker 1: ain't gonna happen. I just I lean toward thinking he
Speaker 1: won't be there. I don't know, Brian, what do you
Speaker 1: think I kind of have? I would take Karloftis over
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I have ed Ingram over Scion Johnson.
Speaker 1: Oh on my guardboard. That's sexy, is what I do.
Speaker 1: And I know people are gonna say it's an LSU deal,
Speaker 1: It's really not. It's it's a it's a situation where
Speaker 1: ridiculous and I'm just looking at better football players, is
Speaker 1: what I'm looking at. Jeff get out and they see.
Speaker 1: That's the thing about it is that you know, absolutely
Speaker 1: you got that, no problem. The I think the thing
Speaker 1: I think the thing was on Johnson. I think people
Speaker 1: were pumping air in him. I really do. I think there.
Speaker 1: I think he's a good player. I think if you're
Speaker 1: you're thinking about him coming in plug and play and
Speaker 1: all that, I think he's going to struggle there. I
Speaker 1: don't think there's any nasty, real nastiness to his game.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the biggest, biggest problem I have
Speaker 1: with him is I don't see a great finisher with
Speaker 1: this guy. I watch ed Ingram play and some of
Speaker 1: these other guards. There's finished there. There's guys getting into
Speaker 1: their blocks, second level blocks, you know, knocking guys on
Speaker 1: the ground. You know, stuff like that, good pass set,
Speaker 1: knee bend, power, strength, all those things. I just think
Speaker 1: I think everybody has pumped a lot of Aaron Zion
Speaker 1: Johnson myself. That's just and enjoy the Pro Bowls. If
Speaker 1: your team takes Zion Johnson, be happy. He's going to
Speaker 1: start at left guard for you. He's going to make
Speaker 1: the Pro Bowl in his second or third year, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna be really happy. So you're gonna be thrilled.
Speaker 1: I think Johnson's a good player. Did you did what? Okay?
Speaker 1: So let me ask him a real quick question here.
Speaker 1: So how close do you have him in Green? Green?
Speaker 1: Is a real life first round kind of guy. Zion
Speaker 1: I have in the one two cheater great area where
Speaker 1: it's like pick him in the twenties. Okay, So you
Speaker 1: have carlottas in the one two cheater great area too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I have a true first on Carlotta. I
Speaker 1: haven't been the first round too. Sezily put him as
Speaker 1: as the winner of that. I think it's a great
Speaker 1: question because it goes back to what your needs are
Speaker 1: at twenty four and if that, I mean, that was
Speaker 1: what the scenario was, right, who would you take? I
Speaker 1: mean there's a chance that you would want to lean
Speaker 1: guard kind of like what we were saying earlier. If
Speaker 1: something were to pop up that way. But I think
Speaker 1: Carloptus in that scenario is the much further advanced, more
Speaker 1: lethal player. So I would take him ten times out
Speaker 1: of ten. Add at Ingram and Zion Johnson to the
Speaker 1: I just say you need to talk White. I just
Speaker 1: say you need to take a look at at Ingram. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I really really do, because to me, to me would
Speaker 1: have a nice Senior Bowl. No, I mean, that's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. This guy, this guy is he you know,
Speaker 1: he's one of those guys that, to me, I watch
Speaker 1: a powerful guy. I watch a guy that plays with
Speaker 1: technique as a good bass you know all that when
Speaker 1: you watch. The biggest problem that Zion Johnson has is
Speaker 1: when his head goes down. He's a terrible football player,
Speaker 1: and that happens to him quite a bit. So to me,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm kind of I'm you know, when you can
Speaker 1: talk about the Pro Bowls and all those things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe you're gonna be right about that. I'm bet
Speaker 1: and you're gonna be wrong. What's a good bet. I'll
Speaker 1: bet against at Ingram too, and I'll bet whatever you
Speaker 1: want because if we all these players will win way
Speaker 1: more than we lose. Yeah, I got one more that
Speaker 1: I really like from Eric uh It's Cowboys Draft one
Speaker 1: oh one that they have not really drafted small school
Speaker 1: prospects in Will mcclay's tenure. I think Reggie Robinson out
Speaker 1: of Tulsa and all the Boise guys are really the
Speaker 1: closest that they've gotten. I guess Tristan Hill. Neither one
Speaker 1: of those are really small school guys. You're still Outain
Speaker 1: West Conference, right, thank you? So with that in mind,
Speaker 1: is there a small school guy and if you want
Speaker 1: to if you want to do group of five, that's fine,
Speaker 1: but you can go FCS whatever you want. People are
Speaker 1: talking about Pinning the tackle from Northern Iowa, first name
Speaker 1: that comes to my mind. Yeah, I mean I would
Speaker 1: draft that guy without hesitation. And Raymond from Ramon Raymond
Speaker 1: from the kid the tackle from the European fella. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean Central Central Michigan. Yeah. Jalan Tilbert, wide receiver,
Speaker 1: South Obama. Yeah. Nicholas Zachel Fordham offensive tackle as a
Speaker 1: developmental prospect Fordham Foredom. See that, I start I start
Speaker 1: to get scared when I hear Fordham. I don't know,
Speaker 1: he's not like a first or second round guy. Sure,
Speaker 1: he's a guy you could take later in the draft
Speaker 1: didn't feel pretty good about, and they saw him at
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl. So if it kind of goes back
Speaker 1: to the conversation we had previewing the Senior Bowl, is
Speaker 1: if they're going to take a small school guy, most
Speaker 1: likely they've seen him up close and personal, either immobile
Speaker 1: at the combine with a potential interview there or during
Speaker 1: Dallas day of one of the visits. If they do it,
Speaker 1: I would bet it would be a Senior Bowl play exactly.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've mentioned him I have, I don't.
Speaker 1: I doubt y'all have watched Dominique Robinson out of Miami, Ohio. Oh,
Speaker 1: I did, I really. I was really impressed by what
Speaker 1: he did in mobiles. That's like a guy that's sort
Speaker 1: of like hanging around on the on the periphery of
Speaker 1: my radar. He tore up my North Texas mean Green
Speaker 1: in the bowl game. I saw it a close in person.
Speaker 1: Tolbert's a good aim by the way for that wide
Speaker 1: receivers spile Bam. Yeah, he seemed like he really turned
Speaker 1: a lot of heads. Now he sure did. He's gonna
Speaker 1: I mean I think that, you know again, don't don't
Speaker 1: pay attention to speed, pay attention to the plays he
Speaker 1: makes down the field because he's gonna lack he's gonna
Speaker 1: lack some speed. But the guy does separate, I mean's
Speaker 1: and he catches every ball thrown this direction. So it's
Speaker 1: a good name, all right. That does it for Twitter
Speaker 1: on the twenty for this show. When we come back
Speaker 1: from this break, we're gonna talk Combine prospects. Football season
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Speaker 1: dot com. You heard it here first. Okay, so we
Speaker 1: spent the first segment of this show talking about how
Speaker 1: weird and different the combine might be. But let's just
Speaker 1: operate in a world where everyone's going to do all
Speaker 1: of the fun stuff and give us football related things
Speaker 1: to watch. I would love to just get a shortlist
Speaker 1: from y'all about guys you're excited to see or guys
Speaker 1: you're curious to see. You know, we talk about whether it's, oh,
Speaker 1: this guy needs to have a great three cone, or
Speaker 1: maybe he's not going to have such a great three cone,
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. I would just like to hear
Speaker 1: some names that you're interested in seeing, assuming everybody works
Speaker 1: out this week. I'm kind of interested in these cornerbacks
Speaker 1: just because I think they're all pretty close. I think Gardner, Stingley,
Speaker 1: McDuffie are all pretty close in the way they play.
Speaker 1: You could throw McCrary in there, elam Booth. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a good list of cornerback acts. I'm interested
Speaker 1: to see how they all interact with each other. I'm
Speaker 1: interested in seeing the movement. I'm interested in seeing the
Speaker 1: numbers that they get out of that stuff with the
Speaker 1: shuttles and things that kind of tells me something. The
Speaker 1: three cone stuff, the short shuttle things that you know,
Speaker 1: those those are those are always very interesting to me.
Speaker 1: But I do think it's a pretty close group. I
Speaker 1: think that these um I think these edge rushers need
Speaker 1: to separate themselves too. And what I have a feeling
Speaker 1: that Jobo is probably going to work out the best,
Speaker 1: but he's probably the rost of all the group. So
Speaker 1: and Jeff has told me, because he's seeing Karloftis work
Speaker 1: out with his own eyes or move around, that maybe
Speaker 1: it's not going to be great. And I wonder if
Speaker 1: the narrative coming out of India is going to be
Speaker 1: this guy stiff and he can't do this, can't do that?
Speaker 1: Is there aj epanessa potential with Karloftus because remember I
Speaker 1: mean around this time, I just bring him up because
Speaker 1: he had a terrible combine. Yep, it's fair because of that.
Speaker 1: And I don't think Karlofta is going to have a
Speaker 1: great combine, but I think i'm tape. They're infinitely different.
Speaker 1: Epinessa was what two eighty five super long, like that
Speaker 1: was his game. Karloftas plays like he's a really good athlete. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like he's just in there, just banging through. So if
Speaker 1: he goes out and he tests poorly, it's gonna knock
Speaker 1: him more so than maybe even in Epinessa. I guess it.
Speaker 1: I guess in theory it could um. But he's just
Speaker 1: one of those dudes that karl offts to me his
Speaker 1: tape is too good to knock him out of the
Speaker 1: first round. It's just it's too good. But we could
Speaker 1: come out of the combine and people but oh, he's
Speaker 1: a quote bad athlete. He's uh not long, he doesn't
Speaker 1: have long arms. He's a bad athlete. Holy cow, we
Speaker 1: can't pick that in the first round. I will, it's
Speaker 1: about I will. Yeah, one of those situations where you're like, sure,
Speaker 1: pushing please, sitting down the boar, see what's gonna happen too?
Speaker 1: And it is with these defensive tackles. If Jordan Davis
Speaker 1: ends up running like a four nine four or wrote
Speaker 1: something like that, I've heard it's possible. See that's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, and all of a sudden knocks. That's where
Speaker 1: one day, you know, one day we're all gonna be
Speaker 1: sitting there and we'll be doing a draft show and
Speaker 1: we're gonna get those numbers and the yeah, you ran
Speaker 1: four nine four or four nine eight something like that,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna go at that weight and it's gonna
Speaker 1: and it's gonna again. We're gonna just shoot a bunch
Speaker 1: of air or the people will shoot a bunch of
Speaker 1: air into well. Man, he's not gonna be there at
Speaker 1: twenty four. He's gonna and then we'll start the Vita
Speaker 1: Vea comparisons and all that stuff like that, and it's
Speaker 1: not the same player. So I think you have to
Speaker 1: be kind of mindful of really what these guys are.
Speaker 1: If you have the opportunity to study these guys, however
Speaker 1: you do it, hook or crook. You know, just take
Speaker 1: a look and kind of know when this guy plays,
Speaker 1: that's what he is. You know. If he runs really
Speaker 1: really well or he doesn't run really well, really well,
Speaker 1: don't kill them for that. Just trust your eyes on
Speaker 1: that tape that you saw a really really good football
Speaker 1: player or you didn't see a good football player at
Speaker 1: the combine. I'm interested in seeing the men from Michigan
Speaker 1: name Central Michigan. Well three of them from the univers
Speaker 1: the University of Wolverines. Hail to the victors. I played
Speaker 1: sky Moore again. Well yeah, always sky More. Yes, I'm
Speaker 1: more Skymore, ye sky Listen. If this team ended up
Speaker 1: with ed Ingram and Skymore would be and Clips would
Speaker 1: throw so many pizza parties. Okay, I got I got
Speaker 1: a tomahawk chop riding on this thing because he knows
Speaker 1: I paid a tomahawk chop before for stupidity. Bet I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't take this question for Twitter on the twenty,
Speaker 1: but somebody asked about Somebody asked who the pizza party
Speaker 1: player is? It's Skymore. Write that down. I already forgot
Speaker 1: what school we going to, Western Michigan, Western Mission one
Speaker 1: of the two seconds. Well, yeah, and set them in
Speaker 1: from Michigan. Then I started naming us Guy Moore's colleague.
Speaker 1: My memory has to be it's almost in real time.
Speaker 1: Things fade away in real time. Can I can I
Speaker 1: ask a question? Can you sort these wide receivers out
Speaker 1: at the combine or is it going to be a problem.
Speaker 1: Is Wilson gonna Is Wilson gonna solidify himself as the
Speaker 1: number one guy for the wide receiver crook? Could you
Speaker 1: want a bold prediction on that? I think if all
Speaker 1: the guys do all the things that it would be
Speaker 1: more likely Garrett Wilson has people raising eyebrows skeptically than going,
Speaker 1: oh really, I bet he runs in the four fives.
Speaker 1: He might. I don't think he's I don't think he's
Speaker 1: real life NFL wide receiver fast. I think he's good
Speaker 1: and explosive and accelerates. I knew I could can on
Speaker 1: you he's real life fast. Tell me if this is
Speaker 1: a hot take, like I Traylan Burks might out run
Speaker 1: Grett will he will? There's there's a couple of receivers
Speaker 1: that are going to outrun him. He sees one. I
Speaker 1: think sky Moore will outrun him. I think there's a
Speaker 1: ton of guys. You've seen Burkes in person, right? Is
Speaker 1: he two hundred and twenty five pounds? Um? He might
Speaker 1: be now when when you saw him first he was
Speaker 1: two forty one. It's none of your businessess, Listen, when
Speaker 1: seasons end and you go to show up for your training.
Speaker 1: But but you're showing up for your training. I mean
Speaker 1: you and I do radio every day about Luca. That
Speaker 1: was very delicately, said Jeffrey, very delicately. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: he showed up to his training with some training to Okay,
Speaker 1: let me ask him that he'll go from running like
Speaker 1: a four to six to four the last month and
Speaker 1: this month receiver? Man, could Burkes come out of this
Speaker 1: thing being the number one receiver? I think for some people,
Speaker 1: because I think that he will Steve Samuel training, that's
Speaker 1: what they're talking about three two twenty five ish, and
Speaker 1: I think he can get into the four fours. Uh.
Speaker 1: And you like, I don't even know his comp Like
Speaker 1: it's something between Debo A. J. Brown and DK Metcalf.
Speaker 1: Something must think. I know something is crazy? You know
Speaker 1: you're good with that? Is it? Is it a hot take?
Speaker 1: If I think receiver is very very high on the
Speaker 1: list of positions where I basically don't care what you
Speaker 1: do at the combine, like I want to see, like
Speaker 1: if you're assue running like a four to nine, I
Speaker 1: don't care. Okay, within reason, Yeah, Like I care less
Speaker 1: about quarterbacks myself at the even the throwing side of Yes,
Speaker 1: maybe I do. And I didn't say receiver was the
Speaker 1: only position I don't care about. I just do. I
Speaker 1: care least about her. I actually linebacker and running back
Speaker 1: fair because they don't have direct opponents in football, you
Speaker 1: so take those positions anyways. Well kind of. But also
Speaker 1: like a wide receiver, is it relevant if you're faster
Speaker 1: or not than the guy who's literally standing right in
Speaker 1: front of you to cover you? Of course it is.
Speaker 1: For a running back, is it relevant if you're faster
Speaker 1: than pick a player on the defense? No, not at
Speaker 1: all in any way, shape or form. Because I don't
Speaker 1: have a direct opponent that I have to run past.
Speaker 1: I just think the tape should tell me everything I
Speaker 1: need to know about what a receiver can and can't do,
Speaker 1: Like can you get behind the cornerback? Can you get
Speaker 1: create separate quarterbacks in the same way? Yeah? Because to me,
Speaker 1: the quarterbacks. You're at the mercy of who you're throwing
Speaker 1: the ball too. If your last name starts with a B,
Speaker 1: then you're likely throwing with a B and C depending
Speaker 1: on who those receivers are. Sometimes, yeah, exactly. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: get a run of really good receivers you get to
Speaker 1: throw the balls too. And then other times you're throwing
Speaker 1: the balls to guys that you're like, why is this
Speaker 1: guy here? Why is this guy here? It's kind of
Speaker 1: a thing. So all of a sudden you don't look
Speaker 1: as good because the route's not as good. The balls there,
Speaker 1: you get a drop, and all of a sudden you're like, mad,
Speaker 1: he is that a drop because of the receivers? That
Speaker 1: a drop because of a bad throw? And by the way,
Speaker 1: the pro day at the at the school, that does
Speaker 1: nothing for me either. Wow. Just let me watch the
Speaker 1: tape of a quarterback. Let me watch every single throw,
Speaker 1: and I could tell you generally if the guy's going
Speaker 1: to be a good player. I wanted to follow up
Speaker 1: with you about what you said about the cornerbacks. The
Speaker 1: prevailing logic right now seems to be that it's Sauce
Speaker 1: Gardener out of Cincinnati and Derek Stingley out of LSU.
Speaker 1: Don't forget our kids at Washington. Let me finish the
Speaker 1: damn point. So again, the prevailing logic is that there's
Speaker 1: like a line and then you go Trent mcduffey, I
Speaker 1: don't know if there's a line. You answered my question
Speaker 1: for me, so yeah. I wanted to ask, do you
Speaker 1: think mcduffey has a real chance to kind of climb
Speaker 1: into that? Absolutely? Do Yeah. If you I mean, you
Speaker 1: sound like you think he's already there. I think he's
Speaker 1: already there. I mean, he's one of my If you
Speaker 1: talk about the three guys, to me, it's Gardner, Stingley, McDuffie.
Speaker 1: Those are my three guys. Wouldn't be surprised if McDuffie
Speaker 1: were picked for Stingley. I wouldn't be surprised at all,
Speaker 1: just because I think teams are gonna have enough questions.
Speaker 1: I think Stingley and McDuffie's tape is good enough and
Speaker 1: recent enough that you're like, hey, what do we think
Speaker 1: about picking one we trust more. I'm biased, obviously I'm biased,
Speaker 1: but I think Stingley's one of the more interesting prospects
Speaker 1: in the first round because I could see him going
Speaker 1: forth or twenty fourth, Like, neither one of those would
Speaker 1: shock me. I don't think he gets really past probably
Speaker 1: fourteen or so myself. There's that run where the you know,
Speaker 1: maybe the Eagles or somebody like that. They've got teams,
Speaker 1: you know, they've got the multiple picks just to to
Speaker 1: talent of a player. Now, if you again, you you
Speaker 1: if you're worried about the non alpha male and you're
Speaker 1: worried about maybe a potential with the foot problems, you know,
Speaker 1: those are the types of things you're gonna have to
Speaker 1: deal with. Do you think he runs in Indie? He's
Speaker 1: not ready. He's only running straight ahead right now from
Speaker 1: what I heard, he's not ready to run. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: not really ready to run. That's kind of a bummer.
Speaker 1: He ran a four to three in a high school
Speaker 1: combine and he'll run an l shoe and he'll go
Speaker 1: really fast. Yes, that's my fair. My man would have
Speaker 1: been top three. I think he would have been top
Speaker 1: five sure if he had been able to go pro
Speaker 1: after twenty nineteen. The other name, just by the way
Speaker 1: that we saw at the Senior Bowl that I think
Speaker 1: is going to run a really quick uh forty of
Speaker 1: going back to wide receivers, even though I know you
Speaker 1: said you don't care about wide receivers at the combine.
Speaker 1: But Calvin Austin, the third out of Memphis, little slot receiver,
Speaker 1: that dude's gonna fly in Indy. He may be the
Speaker 1: quickest out of the bunch or tiny guys Dale Robinson.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sky Moore will fly those that those could
Speaker 1: be the top three or four guys gonna fly. And
Speaker 1: that's my guy. You don't think so if he's gonna fly,
Speaker 1: and that's I think he's gonna fly. Are we setting
Speaker 1: ourselves up for four twos? Baby? No, sir, I'm setting
Speaker 1: myself up for forty times. Do not define football players.
Speaker 1: Sky Moore's badass because he has lightning quick feet in
Speaker 1: his hell after the balls and his tapes really good.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just just kind of think he's a
Speaker 1: slot player myself. Damn right he is. Where does Cooper
Speaker 1: Cup play? Is that a problem? Is that a problem?
Speaker 1: Not a problem? You want Cooper Cup to line up
Speaker 1: outside him? Asually? I know I don't hate Cooper. That
Speaker 1: was the one guy, that's one guy on this show
Speaker 1: that like Cooper Cup. My god, are you doing I'm
Speaker 1: not only guy I can't pick him too hot. I
Speaker 1: didn't say the Cooper Cup was a slot only guy
Speaker 1: is well, I didn't say that. You did what he is? Well,
Speaker 1: he plays outside too, Yeah, is he a slot only
Speaker 1: he's a backstack in the slot motion through the backfield. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think he could probably play out there if they
Speaker 1: wanted him. Let's see, he's just really good in the slot.
Speaker 1: It's just a good football player. No, I'm laugh I'm
Speaker 1: just laughing because I'm imagining Saturday of draft weekend. Whatever.
Speaker 1: I don't know that not all the picks are finalized,
Speaker 1: but like whenever the Cowboys pick in the fourth round,
Speaker 1: like they won't pick sky More and then Jeff, you'd
Speaker 1: got bad news for you, bro the third round whatever,
Speaker 1: getting picked in the thirties. I just like watching Jeff
Speaker 1: get indignant when his pet cats slide. Damn right, it's
Speaker 1: a favorite was slide or Darius Washington last year? Hey listen,
Speaker 1: he couldn't help to use five sous five eight. I
Speaker 1: was at least fair about that when I was like, look,
Speaker 1: I love him. There's no chance he gets drafted on
Speaker 1: the first two days because he's dying. He didn't get
Speaker 1: drafted at all, Right, No, he didn't, but he made
Speaker 1: the fifty three. But he did. There's nothing worse than
Speaker 1: work in a draft for three days and they go, well,
Speaker 1: who's your best available? And you said the same guy
Speaker 1: for the last two and a half hours yesterday, steal
Speaker 1: him going ask Dane, He'll tell you. I'm not talking
Speaker 1: trash about sky More. I want to be clear about that.
Speaker 1: Where are you? No? I just called him a fourth
Speaker 1: rounder just now. I mean he did say that. What's
Speaker 1: what is I'm looking at him like what Dane, Dane,
Speaker 1: our buddy Dane Brugler had him like in the he
Speaker 1: had him in the top one hundred, right, yeah, but
Speaker 1: where he had him is wrong? Yeah, eighty five or
Speaker 1: so I had it pulled up. Um, I remembering that wrong?
Speaker 1: But he's wrong, just like Brian probably is going to
Speaker 1: say that he's wrong. He has ed Ingram eightieth and
Speaker 1: that's wrong. Right, No, what, no, it's not wrong? Than
Speaker 1: you can't no, no, no, no, no, no, don't check
Speaker 1: this out. Skymore is seventy nine, Okay, Ingram is eighty Okay,
Speaker 1: Dan Dane has missed at Ingram then, okay, that's what
Speaker 1: draft me. I'm sorry, that's wrong. I mean you would
Speaker 1: draft at Ingram And did you say you would draft
Speaker 1: him twenty fourth or second round? Okay? Yeah, top top fifty, okay,
Speaker 1: top fifty. So he said over Zion, jo, I don't
Speaker 1: have Zion. I don't have Johnson the first rounds, right,
Speaker 1: that's right, that's my thing, all right. I mean I
Speaker 1: could ask y'all for more names. Well, we've got another
Speaker 1: show to do Thursday, Ryan Tim, Oh god, that was
Speaker 1: actually pretty good. We do this show too early in
Speaker 1: the morning for me to be able to keep up
Speaker 1: with you some films. All right, we're done, we're signing
Speaker 1: off the show. We can talk more combine on Thursday.
Speaker 1: I hope this was as informative for you as it
Speaker 1: was entertaining for us. I don't know. Thanks for joining me, guys,
Speaker 1: this this was the draft show. That's Jeff. We'll talk
Speaker 1: to y'all next time. This has been a production of
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
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