Speaker 1: Hey Bessies, Hello Sunshine. Today on the bright Side, it's
Speaker 1: time for another edition of shelf Life. We're joined by
Speaker 1: author Lauren Lingk Brown, whose debut novel, Society of Lies,
Speaker 1: is the October pick for Reese's Book Club. It's Monday,
Speaker 1: October twenty eighth. I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 2: And I'm Smoane Voice, and this is the bright Side
Speaker 2: from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together
Speaker 2: to share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day.
Speaker 1: On My Mind Monday is brought to you by Missus
Speaker 1: Meyers Clean Day, inspired by the goodness of the garden.
Speaker 2: All right, chall you know what time it is. It
Speaker 2: is On my Mind Monday, kicking off the week with
Speaker 2: a good source of inspiration and motivation. Oh yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: what's inspiring you today?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 2: Well, I recently came across an article in the Atlantic
Speaker 2: about the power of music, and you know, I'm like
Speaker 2: all over that. And it's written by one of our
Speaker 2: favorite voices, Arthur C. Brooks, and he explains how music
Speaker 2: is quote one of the greatest ways to understand life
Speaker 2: more deeply. He cites studies that show how our brains
Speaker 2: are actually built to enjoy music and how music can
Speaker 2: also be used to help us heal.
Speaker 1: I've actually heard so many stories about how music helps people,
Speaker 1: specifically in the hospital. Arthur C. Brooks is sort of
Speaker 1: known as one of the grandfathers of happiness. Is there
Speaker 1: a specific genre of music that elicits the most happiness?
Speaker 2: So? To be fair, he says that the research findings
Speaker 2: are inconclusive on that particular point. But he says that
Speaker 2: there was one study that found that the world's happiest
Speaker 2: song is actually I want you to guess what's the
Speaker 2: happiest song?
Speaker 1: Happy by Pharrell? That's what I was thinking too, Right,
Speaker 1: It's gotta be a ceeviee Wonder song or got this feeling?
Speaker 1: Uh can't sound the feeling?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, justin Timberlake.
Speaker 2: Okay, so the world's happiest song is actually Good Vibrations
Speaker 2: by the Beach Boys.
Speaker 1: WHOA. I kind of get that.
Speaker 2: I feel like we need an update on that one though.
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of time, a lot of music
Speaker 2: that's passed.
Speaker 1: And then I like that you're wanting to look at
Speaker 1: the scientific research behind this. I could be updated. When
Speaker 1: was the last study done? What year? Yeah? Exactly? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What song makes you the happiest. Hmm okay. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of the songs that make me the happiest
Speaker 1: are tied to memories. So like in my house growing up,
Speaker 1: or in my dad's car, we would listen to a
Speaker 1: lot of Elvis, a lot of Tina Turner, My mom
Speaker 1: loves Carol King like, kind of the oldies, Stevie Wonder.
Speaker 1: They make me really happy. Oh that's so cute. I
Speaker 1: love that. How about you mind changes all the time?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's something to what you're saying that
Speaker 2: the songs that are tied to these core formative memories
Speaker 2: are often the ones that shift our mood in the
Speaker 2: most impactful way.
Speaker 1: You also love a Chapel Roone bop?
Speaker 2: I am. I am so deep into Chapel Roone at
Speaker 2: the moment. I was at my friend Donovan's house the
Speaker 2: other day and I hadn't seen it in a while
Speaker 2: and found out that he's equally obsessed with Chaperone. We
Speaker 2: really spend an hour, like on Spotify just listening to
Speaker 2: all of her songs, dissecting everything, discussing why she is
Speaker 2: the voice of our generation.
Speaker 1: So I am obsessed. I just saw the Pharrell Lego
Speaker 1: movie m H and I realized how many of his beats,
Speaker 1: not even his songs, have made people happy, Like his
Speaker 1: song Happy was the culmination of it all.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Do you have a sad girl song? Like a
Speaker 2: song that you put on when you're in your feels?
Speaker 4: Oh my god?
Speaker 1: Who is it? Well, you're gonna love this song because
Speaker 1: you love this play. But if you want me to
Speaker 1: cry on command, if you put on for Good from Wicked,
Speaker 1: I'm a mess. That's so sweet. Yeah, sad girl for real.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to agree that one of my favorite
Speaker 2: sad girl music choices is musical theater, especially like Tic
Speaker 2: Tick Boom or Rent. Yeah, those are the songs that
Speaker 2: get me in my feels. It's a great one, and
Speaker 2: there is something to this. The article says that not
Speaker 2: only can sad music soothe you, but research have also
Speaker 2: found that it can help you understand your feelings and
Speaker 2: sit with them and find meaning in them.
Speaker 1: It can help you understand your feelings. That's really cool.
Speaker 2: Well, it makes sense, right, especially if you're listening to
Speaker 2: an emotionally evocative song. An incredible musician is able to
Speaker 2: use music as a conduit for emotion. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: so it makes sense. You're able to tap into whatever
Speaker 2: emotional state they were in when they were writing it.
Speaker 2: Adele is a great example of that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Celine Dion, all those big vocalists.
Speaker 2: One last thing I want to leave everyone with. From
Speaker 2: this article, Arthur C. Brooks listed out some ways that
Speaker 2: we can use music to heighten our emotional experiences and
Speaker 2: better understand ourselves. So one strategy that he notes is
Speaker 2: decide what you want from your music. So he says,
Speaker 2: if you want to use music as a way to
Speaker 2: bond socially, listen with friends, like maybe you have a
Speaker 2: chapel Ron listening party with your friends. If you want
Speaker 2: to use it as a means of intensifying your emotions,
Speaker 2: listen by yourself. And then if you want both, go
Speaker 2: to a concert with friends. That's an amalgamation of them all.
Speaker 1: Going to a concert with friends is one of the
Speaker 1: best experiences in life. It doesn't get any better than that.
Speaker 1: So music and storytelling share a common thread. They both
Speaker 1: have the power to transport us, to evoke emotion and
Speaker 1: connect us to something deeper.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Just as a song can tell a story through rhythm
Speaker 1: and melody, a great book can weave a tale that
Speaker 1: stays with you long after you've finished reading. I know
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this, there's books that you're thinking
Speaker 1: about right now, books that have stayed with you. And
Speaker 1: our guest today has been mastering her love of storytelling
Speaker 1: for the past decade. Lauren Ling Brown is the author
Speaker 1: of Society of Lies, the October pick for Reese's Book
Speaker 1: Club and a USA Today bestseller. Society of Lies is
Speaker 1: Lauren's debut novel. Prior to publishing it, she worked as
Speaker 1: an editor in TV, film, documentaries and commercials, and she
Speaker 1: had nearly given up on writing when she decided to
Speaker 1: pen Society of Lies. The idea for the novel actually
Speaker 1: started as a screenplay that she'd written about a decade earlier,
Speaker 1: and over the pandemic, as Lauren was in what she
Speaker 1: calls a low point in her life, she rediscovered her
Speaker 1: love for writing, and she actually wrote three novels, Society
Speaker 1: of Lies among them.
Speaker 2: The novel is actually a super suspenseful murder mystery that
Speaker 2: follows two biracial sisters, Maya and Naomi, as they navigate
Speaker 2: dark academia and the underground world of secret societies at Princeton.
Speaker 1: I love anything about secret societies. There's so much mystery there.
Speaker 1: Laura Ling Brown's book is particularly delicious. Stay with us,
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after the break. Thanks to our
Speaker 1: partners at missus Myers, you can learn a lot about
Speaker 1: a person by their dish soap. Missus Meyers's collection of
Speaker 1: household products are inspired by the garden and pack a
Speaker 1: punch against dirt and grime. Visit missus meyers dot com.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the bright Side, Lauren, Thank you, thanks so
Speaker 3: much for having me.
Speaker 1: We're so happy to have you. Simone and I both
Speaker 1: love any book about a secret society. Oh yeah, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm all in. You know it's a quick win. But
Speaker 1: this is your debut novel, Society of Lies. It's the
Speaker 1: October pick for Reese's Book Club, and I have to say,
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty rare for a debut book to
Speaker 1: have such a long journey.
Speaker 4: Oh you mean the ten years.
Speaker 1: Ten years in the making. After all of that time
Speaker 1: and persistence and passion, how does it feel to finally
Speaker 1: see your story celebrated on a Reese's book Club stage
Speaker 1: and beyond?
Speaker 3: It feels like this dream that was so far off
Speaker 3: that I never thought would actually be here is actually
Speaker 3: coming true, and Reese has been a role model for
Speaker 3: me growing up, and so it's just totally wild, all
Speaker 3: the emotion. It was just, you know, one of those
Speaker 3: things that you think, oh, that would be incredible if
Speaker 3: that happened someday. But I'm just really grateful.
Speaker 1: We can tell. But it's it's so deserving. The book
Speaker 1: is awesome, and we noticed a recognizable name on the
Speaker 1: book cover. There's an endorsement from Courtney Cox. Simone and
Speaker 1: I both need to understand how this came about.
Speaker 3: Well, in film school, I met someone who is now
Speaker 3: a dear friend named Alex Jackson, and she is close
Speaker 3: with Courtney and we all worked on a film together
Speaker 3: where I edited, Alex directed, and Courtney was the executive producer.
Speaker 4: And so.
Speaker 3: Alex just offered to send my book to her, show
Speaker 3: it to her, being like, I don't know if she's
Speaker 3: going to read it, but maybe, and then she read
Speaker 3: it and loved it and offered to blurb, which was
Speaker 3: so kind of her.
Speaker 1: Blurbs really help, especially from notable names on a book,
Speaker 1: especially as a debut.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was just really kind of her to do
Speaker 4: that generous.
Speaker 2: So Lauren, at its core, Society of Lies is a
Speaker 2: murder mystery that's set in the world of secret societies
Speaker 2: at Princeton. What was it about this particular story and
Speaker 2: setting that you just couldn't shake.
Speaker 3: I think just remembering who I was when I was
Speaker 3: at age eighteen to twenty two and stepping off the
Speaker 3: train and I'm from California, I'm from northern California, and
Speaker 3: then stepping off the train in this beautiful East Coast
Speaker 3: gothic campus. It was just incredible, such a culture shock,
Speaker 3: but also an incredible experience over four years and really
Speaker 3: something that had a big impact on me. So I've
Speaker 3: been returning to this story over and over again, and
Speaker 3: that's sort of the ten years that we were talking
Speaker 3: about earlier.
Speaker 2: So can you set the record straight for me? Are
Speaker 2: there secret societies at Princeton? Is my friend lying to me?
Speaker 3: Well, the major There aren't really many secret societies at Princeton.
Speaker 3: Really everything revolves around the eating clubs, and there's about
Speaker 3: eleven eating clubs. Some of them are signing and some
Speaker 3: are bicker, meaning you have to rush, you have to
Speaker 3: apply to get in.
Speaker 1: Is this like a sorority fraternity? Like what's an eating club? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, it's a weird word. My partner thought
Speaker 3: it was like an eating competition club.
Speaker 1: I think of it's like a dinner table where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is who you're having dinner with in the cafeteria.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, it is kind of like that.
Speaker 3: They're these historic mansions, right that are independent of the
Speaker 3: school on a street near campus, and you do eat there,
Speaker 3: you have your your meals there, and it's for upper
Speaker 3: classmen and at night they clear all the tables out
Speaker 3: and have parties with DJs, and it's where most of
Speaker 3: like seventy percent I think of the students are in
Speaker 3: an eating club.
Speaker 1: Were you in one?
Speaker 4: I was? Which one are you in? I was in Coe?
Speaker 1: What does that mean? What do you eat in the
Speaker 1: Cottage Club?
Speaker 2: And how do you get in? Like what is the
Speaker 2: initiation process?
Speaker 3: Okay, so the food varies, but it's all really good.
Speaker 3: We have who's cooking, They have chefs and it was
Speaker 3: a lot of Southern comfort food at Cottage, really delicious.
Speaker 3: And I don't know, Cottage just kind of has athletes
Speaker 3: in it. I played soccer freshman year, so the soccer
Speaker 3: team was in it.
Speaker 4: Cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what were the people like?
Speaker 3: Well, because it's about seventy percent of Princeton, you know undergrads.
Speaker 3: It really is similar to the people who are in
Speaker 3: your classes.
Speaker 4: So it's these high achieving.
Speaker 3: Students, and it's not all super wealthy people. It's everyone
Speaker 3: who's at Princeton. But the eating clubs each had their
Speaker 3: own personality, their own identity, so it really varies by
Speaker 3: eating club.
Speaker 2: I think this is a story about identity, about belonging,
Speaker 2: about the upper crost of society. And you've said that
Speaker 2: this story really evolved over time. You had been sitting
Speaker 2: with it for a long time. And when it comes
Speaker 2: to a murder mystery, you've got to fit all these pieces,
Speaker 2: these puzzle pieces together.
Speaker 1: What is the secret to writing the perfect murder mystery?
Speaker 3: I don't know if I know the secret turning the
Speaker 3: perfect mystery, because it took me a lot of dress
Speaker 3: to get to this one, and I still don't think
Speaker 3: it's perfect by any means. But uh, I guess ten
Speaker 3: years ago I wrote it as a screenplay because I
Speaker 3: was just interested in this idea of an outsider at
Speaker 3: Princeton getting involved in a secret society and dealing with
Speaker 3: this moral dilemma, like is she going to take a
Speaker 3: golden ticket that promises her the life of her dreams,
Speaker 3: and will she stay even when she learns that the
Speaker 3: secret society is her someone else. So that's the question
Speaker 3: that I thought of when I wrote that screenplay and
Speaker 3: then abandoned that idea and wrote this as a novel
Speaker 3: over the pandemic. It was really just having that theme.
Speaker 3: I guess that core idea in mind as the mystery
Speaker 3: came to be as I did different drafts and crafted
Speaker 3: the story.
Speaker 1: I guess there's some intriguing parallels between your own story
Speaker 1: and the book. Both of you are navigating life at Princeton.
Speaker 1: What was it specifically about your own experiences that really
Speaker 1: sparked the idea of the murder mystery being on campus
Speaker 1: at Princeton. Hm.
Speaker 4: I think I.
Speaker 3: Drew from my experience as a multiracial Black and Chinese
Speaker 3: young woman throughout my entire life, so from growing up
Speaker 3: in a mostly white high school in northern California, also
Speaker 3: at Princeton, navigating different spaces. I was also in BAC,
Speaker 3: like Naomi, the younger sister, the Black Arts Company, which
Speaker 3: is this great dance group. And then I also drew
Speaker 3: from my life after Princeton, working in post production and
Speaker 3: also oftentimes being the only woman or person of color.
Speaker 1: Simone and I were actually just talking before the interview
Speaker 1: that so many of the guests we've had on, particularly
Speaker 1: authors that have mixed identity points, really make that a
Speaker 1: focal point of their writing, and it seems like everyone's
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what it means themselves, and the
Speaker 1: writing is part of that process. You're nodding your head, Yeah, totally,
Speaker 1: what do you think it is?
Speaker 3: I think for me, so, I have been a big
Speaker 3: journaler for my whole life.
Speaker 4: Since I was a kid.
Speaker 3: I always kept so many journals, and I would write
Speaker 3: down just the most emotional things that happened. So whether
Speaker 3: it was a breakup or someone cutting me in line
Speaker 3: at the grocery store, it was just little things that
Speaker 3: happened during the day. And I like to go back
Speaker 3: to those journals entries and sort of use them in
Speaker 3: my writing as a way to make give it power
Speaker 3: and just find something good, use them for something good.
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's a lot of truth to what
Speaker 2: you're saying, Danielle. It is really interesting that this theme
Speaker 2: keeps coming up, not just you know, on our show,
Speaker 2: but in Reese's book Club, Like these stories about mixed
Speaker 2: race characters are being celebrated and elevated and amplified. And
Speaker 2: I'm not an author, but I am someone who has
Speaker 2: lived experience as a biracial woman. And I think the
Speaker 2: reason why these characters are so compelling is because they
Speaker 2: exist in the gray area and the complexity and there's
Speaker 2: just so much nuance to this experience.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree with that, and I just want
Speaker 3: to center more stories around our experiences and show that,
Speaker 3: I don't know, we're not just one note that there's
Speaker 3: so much nuance and complexity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something really compelling about a character who's like
Speaker 2: straddling two worlds, which is exactly what the characters in
Speaker 2: this book are going through.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you one more question about identity? What
Speaker 1: do you think you were specifically trying to sift through personally?
Speaker 4: M good, That is such a good question.
Speaker 1: Hmmm.
Speaker 3: I think for me, just the key thing about this
Speaker 3: character Maya, the older sister, is that she wants to
Speaker 3: belong and trying to figure out like in what way
Speaker 3: she's conforming to this world versus rejecting it. And then
Speaker 3: the younger sister, Naomi, who's more secure, She's confident in
Speaker 3: her identity and loves everything that makes her who she is,
Speaker 3: and so she is, you know, the positive version of
Speaker 3: this multiracial experience.
Speaker 1: I think that is really interesting. I want to touch
Speaker 1: on the sister dynamic because it's a huge part of
Speaker 1: the plot. You said that this book improved your relationship
Speaker 1: with your sister personally, how so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So my sister is four years younger than me,
Speaker 3: and we were very close growing up in high school
Speaker 3: before that, but then when I went to college and
Speaker 3: she went to a different school, and then we started
Speaker 3: our careers, we were just living in different cities, not
Speaker 3: communicating in the best way. I'm the older sister, so
Speaker 3: I'm always giving advice when it's not always needed.
Speaker 1: It's like you're a parent sister. Yes, I'm the same,
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 4: I try not to.
Speaker 3: But then now that we're in our thirties, and when
Speaker 3: I was writing this book over the pandemic, going through
Speaker 3: a really hard time in my life, like a bad
Speaker 3: breakup and also different surgeries, she was really there for me.
Speaker 3: And I think she got to know me through this
Speaker 3: writing too, because I would read chapters to her. And
Speaker 3: now she's reading the finished version of Society of Lives
Speaker 3: and she called me saying that she really liked it
Speaker 3: and like got more insight into my experience, I guess.
Speaker 3: And we just had a really nice moment talking about that,
Speaker 3: and it really meant a lot to me.
Speaker 1: Sounds like she almost flipped the script on you during
Speaker 1: that time, like she became the caretaker a little and
Speaker 1: it changed things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, I want to circle back to this theme
Speaker 2: of belonging because it really feels like an engine throughout
Speaker 2: this story that drives the characters forward. You've said that
Speaker 2: your book is based on the question how far would
Speaker 2: you go to belong? How much of yourself do you
Speaker 2: see in Maya? How much of yourself do you see
Speaker 2: in Naomi? And as you were writing this, what did
Speaker 2: this book bring up for you in terms of how
Speaker 2: far you went to try to fit in?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 3: So Maya I see as who I was in high school,
Speaker 3: this very guarded, shy, bookish kid who didn't feel like
Speaker 3: she fit in in any space is But then when
Speaker 3: I went to Princeton, luckily, I you know, there wasn't
Speaker 3: a grace done society. So I joined BAC, the Black
Speaker 3: Arts Company, which is this dance group that was very
Speaker 3: inclusive and welcoming and had friends who embraced me and
Speaker 3: helped me celebrate, you know, my identity. And so then
Speaker 3: I feel like I evolved into Naomi the younger sister
Speaker 3: through that experience, and I identify with her more now.
Speaker 1: I'd say, what do you think you would go back
Speaker 1: and tell Princeton College Lauren about fitting in?
Speaker 3: Ooh about fitting in? Yeah, you asked how far I'd
Speaker 3: go to belong Hmm. I would tell her not to
Speaker 3: worry so much. Who cares? Like, now that I'm in
Speaker 3: my thirties, I don't care what people think. I'm just
Speaker 3: trying to make my art and help other people and
Speaker 3: help my friends, you know, and my family. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: I and when I was in school, I really wanted
Speaker 3: to write. I wanted to be a novelist, but I
Speaker 3: didn't have the confidence to really pursue it. And I
Speaker 3: was you know, I started off as an econ major.
Speaker 3: I thought I was doing this path that felt more stable.
Speaker 3: So my whole life, I've been sort of struggling between
Speaker 3: do I do the thing that is stable, or do
Speaker 3: I go for my dreams.
Speaker 1: I think that's a question that resonates with a lot
Speaker 1: of people. You know, you mentioned surgeries Earlier, You've been
Speaker 1: pretty open about the personal struggles that you experienced with
Speaker 1: your health and relationships while you've been writing this book.
Speaker 1: Are you willing to share some specifics for our listeners
Speaker 1: to understand sort of the headspace that you were in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, So I guess going back to high school,
Speaker 3: I played soccer and I had this injury when I
Speaker 3: was fifteen. A girl just purposely ran through my knee
Speaker 3: and tore everything. And it was just a high school game.
Speaker 3: And then since then, I've had five surgeries on that
Speaker 3: knee and over the pandemic, I had to have one
Speaker 3: a cartilage replacement, and then also both hips label tears.
Speaker 3: So I spent over a year on crutches, off and on.
Speaker 3: Each time it was like somewhere between four and seven months,
Speaker 3: depending on the surgery. And it was just a really
Speaker 3: hard time for me because I was also I had
Speaker 3: been with someone for six years and then got married
Speaker 3: and divorced, and it just was a really low point
Speaker 3: in my life. Like my mental health definitely suffered, and
Speaker 3: so I turned to writing as a way to like
Speaker 3: work through some of that.
Speaker 1: When you're a physical person and some of your physicality
Speaker 1: feels stripped from you. It's debilitating physically and mentally.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Are there other books that you read during that time
Speaker 1: that you found?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, I read a lot of Reese's
Speaker 3: book Club books because it was around. It was right
Speaker 3: after twenty seventeen. Yeah, I was twenty nineteen when I
Speaker 3: had my first surgery, So I read Celeste Ing, I
Speaker 3: read Kylie Reid, Taylor Jenkins read just so many good
Speaker 3: books during that time. Americana Never Let Me Go by
Speaker 3: Kazuishu Guro is another one I love.
Speaker 1: I feel like, at the lowest points of my life
Speaker 1: when therapy didn't feel comforting, women's stories, whether they were
Speaker 1: fictional or nonfiction, helped me.
Speaker 4: Yes, totally.
Speaker 3: And then when the world shoot down during the pandemic,
Speaker 3: there was this bookstagram community that I found and everyone
Speaker 3: loved reading. We were all I was in this book
Speaker 3: club actually with people women all over the world. One
Speaker 3: person was in Australia, someone was in the UK. We
Speaker 3: were all spread out over the US too, and it
Speaker 3: was just a really cool experience.
Speaker 1: That's interesting because you're kind of talking about belonging again,
Speaker 1: like you almost formed your own new eating club. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just around books, not food.
Speaker 2: It's time for another short break, but don't go anywhere.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back to shelf Life with Lauren ling Brown.
Speaker 2: And we're back with Lauren ling Brown. Okay, this next
Speaker 2: question that I have for you is a little weird
Speaker 2: for me to say, but I'm going to try my
Speaker 2: best to say it. Okay, So, we heard from our
Speaker 2: team that our recent episode on imposter syndrome resonated with
Speaker 2: you in a big way.
Speaker 3: What was it that stuck out to you about that conversation? Yeah,
Speaker 3: so I was at Shinaway. I went to your live
Speaker 3: recording and it was awesome. You actually someone. You said
Speaker 3: something that really resonated with me. You said, we can
Speaker 3: reframe imposterson to thinking of it as if we are
Speaker 3: taking the next leap in our career, so we're pushing
Speaker 3: ourselves to our limits. And I don't remember exactly how
Speaker 3: you said it, you said it so beautifully.
Speaker 1: No, that's it.
Speaker 3: But I really love that, and that resonated with me
Speaker 3: because I've been someone who's been actively fighting against imposter
Speaker 3: syndrome in my career in editing the whole time, you know,
Speaker 3: for the past ten years. And so yeah, to hear
Speaker 3: you say that was really nice, and I like that idea.
Speaker 1: I also find that imposter syndrome is exacerbated when you're
Speaker 1: underrepresented in your context. And there's just not a lot
Speaker 1: of women editors out there, so I can imagine it's
Speaker 1: just sort of multiplied.
Speaker 3: Absolutely not to tell too many of these stories, but
Speaker 3: I was editing something and my assistant editor was a
Speaker 3: white guy who's a little bit older than me. And
Speaker 3: I was at the editing desk and he was at
Speaker 3: the assistant editing desk, and the client walked in and
Speaker 3: they shook his hand, assuming he was the editor, you know,
Speaker 3: and I sat back down and I was like, oh
Speaker 3: my god, and it just epitomized everything I was feeling.
Speaker 3: So I think sometimes imposter syndrome can come from small interactions.
Speaker 3: And of course that person didn't mean anything by it.
Speaker 3: He just assumed.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's interesting to me to hear you talk about imposter
Speaker 2: syndrome because I believe that you experienced it, but you
Speaker 2: found a way to push through it, like talk about
Speaker 2: mastering a pivot. You started out Society of Lives started
Speaker 2: out as a screenplay, and then you decided to turn
Speaker 2: it into a novel because you felt like it had
Speaker 2: more possibility there. You know, we often hear about authors
Speaker 2: doing it the other way around, right, like the novel
Speaker 2: then gets adapted.
Speaker 1: Take me into that calculus.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well it wasn't intentional. I wish I could say
Speaker 3: it was. But I wrote it as a screenplay sort
Speaker 3: of as my thesis at USC when I was in
Speaker 3: film school. And then I didn't know anyone in the industry,
Speaker 3: so I was trying to sell it, trying to I
Speaker 3: was doing internships around Hollywood, around the entertainment industry, and
Speaker 3: you know, would send it to my bosses or anyone
Speaker 3: who would be willing to read it. But I didn't
Speaker 3: know anyone. I didn't know how to find my way
Speaker 3: into a writer's room. So I sort of just gave
Speaker 3: up on the dream of writing. And I needed to
Speaker 3: pay my rent, so I got a job as a
Speaker 3: vault manager at a post house, meaning it was mostly
Speaker 3: commercials and music videos and documentaries, and I was responsible
Speaker 3: for sending and shipping and packaging the drives, the hard
Speaker 3: drives that came from set. And so then I worked
Speaker 3: my way up, became an assistant editor and an editor,
Speaker 3: and I wrote as a hobby just on the side.
Speaker 2: Wow, I do think that some of those tours, even
Speaker 2: though they're not exactly what we had in mind, I
Speaker 2: think they can be super instructional for us. What do
Speaker 2: you think you learned from those experiences that's still serving
Speaker 2: you today.
Speaker 4: Oh, it's so helpful.
Speaker 3: I mean being an assistant editor and an editor, you
Speaker 3: have to be so organized, and I think that that
Speaker 3: really helps in my writing and just not being afraid
Speaker 3: to scrap scenes. I'm a big rewriter, so I love
Speaker 3: to just sketch out the whole story and then just
Speaker 3: go back and rewrite forever and just layer more mystery,
Speaker 3: more threads, and more depth on top of what I
Speaker 3: started with. So I think that really helps. And also
Speaker 3: just in editing, you really have to tell a story
Speaker 3: visually because you have your sound, you have the music,
Speaker 3: you have that the dailies, the clips from set, and
Speaker 3: you get to use all these pieces like a puzzle
Speaker 3: and put together the scene to have tension and emotion.
Speaker 3: And so I try to think of that when I'm
Speaker 3: approaching my writing as well.
Speaker 1: Wow, Simone and I love when we have authors on
Speaker 1: and they read to us. Would you be willing to
Speaker 1: read a section of your story?
Speaker 4: I'd love to.
Speaker 3: Okay, So this is from chapter twenty three, and don't worry,
Speaker 3: there's no spoilers, but it's Maya the older sister's timeline,
Speaker 3: and we're back in November twenty eleven when she is
Speaker 3: first getting into the secret society, Grace Stone Society.
Speaker 4: From that point on, I felt different. I was different.
Speaker 3: Something changed in the way I carried myself, looked people
Speaker 3: in the eye. Heads turned when Daisy and I walked
Speaker 3: into a room, and I knew they were watching us
Speaker 3: with envy. In the weeks following initiation, we spent languid
Speaker 3: days wandering to and from class night's cross legged on
Speaker 3: someone's dorm room floor, spilling secrets by candlelight until our
Speaker 3: lips were stained purple with wine. We laughed hysterically, danced
Speaker 3: until sunrise, drank and studied, and ate at sterling absorbed
Speaker 3: into her womb. We had Graystone Society meetings every Sunday,
Speaker 3: the location in time of which would vary, where all
Speaker 3: twenty one of us would gather around candle at dinners
Speaker 3: in a sheltered corner of campus to discuss poetry, art
Speaker 3: and politics and ways in which we could benefit the society.
Speaker 3: There was a hum running through everything, then a feeling
Speaker 3: like we were living in a world within a world
Speaker 3: within a world, one to which only we had access.
Speaker 3: Most important, I'd been able to send money back to Naomi.
Speaker 3: My plan was to do whatever it took to make
Speaker 3: it for her, for us, and Greystone Society was the
Speaker 3: start of it. Still, at night, when I was drifting
Speaker 3: to sleep, the question lingered why had they chosen me?
Speaker 3: And because I couldn't answer, this new life felt temporary.
Speaker 3: I suspected one day it would vanish and I'd wake
Speaker 3: up and realize it had been nothing but a dream.
Speaker 3: One night, after dinner, Daisy and I were walking back
Speaker 3: to her dorm when the sound of tires on gravel
Speaker 3: came up behind me. We turned to see Cecily and
Speaker 3: Kai in a decked out golf cart. This was it.
Speaker 3: I had made it. I was part of their inner circle.
Speaker 3: I was friends with the most beautiful, successful and envied
Speaker 3: girls on campus.
Speaker 1: Hmmm, Lauren, you have an incredible voice too.
Speaker 2: No, you just no take take it okay, because you
Speaker 2: just snapped into something there, Like she opened the book
Speaker 2: and then she got on the mic and she was like,
Speaker 2: She's like the drama came through the voice. I'm I'm
Speaker 2: here for it that was so immersive. Well, our bright
Speaker 2: side besties have loved your book just as much as
Speaker 2: Danielle and I have, and they have some questions about
Speaker 2: Society of Lies. So first up is Emma. She's actually
Speaker 2: fresh out of college herself and she's curious about your
Speaker 2: own Princeton experience.
Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 5: My name is Emma and I am from Minnesota. I
Speaker 5: absolutely love Society of Lies and the complexities of all
Speaker 5: the mysteries that were involved. As soon as I started
Speaker 5: reading this book, I was hooked and just could not
Speaker 5: put it down until I had figured everything out. I
Speaker 5: also thought I was really refreshing to have themes of friendship, class,
Speaker 5: sisterhood in college. I've recently graduated college and since then
Speaker 5: I've been really nostalgic. I've noticed I've been really drawn
Speaker 5: in novels with college themes to relive those days, which
Speaker 5: was why I was really excited to read Society of Lies.
Speaker 5: My question is, when you were writing this book, even
Speaker 5: though it is largely fictitious, like you mentioned in your acknowledgments,
Speaker 5: what were the best moments of your college years of
Speaker 5: Princeton that you wanted readers to gain a little bit
Speaker 5: of insight into.
Speaker 4: Hi Emma.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your question. I love that,
Speaker 3: and thank you for reading the book. My favorite moments
Speaker 3: were being in BAC the Black Arts Company and dancing
Speaker 3: on the stage in the first auditorium with so many
Speaker 3: of my friends, and there would be two hundred or
Speaker 3: more of our friends in the crowd just cheering for us.
Speaker 3: It was just such a welcoming, supportive environment and I
Speaker 3: just really miss those days. And then I also loved
Speaker 3: being an English major and getting to read all day
Speaker 3: in these beautiful libraries and sit in these incredible classrooms
Speaker 3: like Macosh fifty, which is referenced in the book too.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I had a great time.
Speaker 2: We were just talking with our producer about how much
Speaker 2: we love just walking around college campuses and pretending like
Speaker 2: we're still in There's something so magical about like that environment.
Speaker 2: There's so much possibility there.
Speaker 1: I also love the creativity there, like all the big
Speaker 1: ideas usually come from young people.
Speaker 2: Yes, the youthful energy. There's something really energizing and inspiring
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you feel less. I can't. It's like the world
Speaker 1: hasn't hit you with the you can't. Yeah, yeah as much. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: next up. We have Ali, so we all know Society
Speaker 1: of Lies is about the elite secret societies of Princeton,
Speaker 1: and she wants you to spill the tea on just
Speaker 1: how real they are.
Speaker 6: Hi there, my name is Ali Lauren. I loved your book.
Speaker 6: It gave me total school movie vibes. I wanted to
Speaker 6: ask you today a bit about the Princeton eating clubs
Speaker 6: and the secret societies that you wrote so well. At
Speaker 6: the beginning of your book, you mentioned that the first
Speaker 6: Princeton eating club came about in eighteen seventy nine. At
Speaker 6: the end of the book, in your author's note, you
Speaker 6: mentioned how Graystone and Sterling were made up secret societies
Speaker 6: that you created. I want to know how you wrote
Speaker 6: them so well. They felt so realistic. Where did you
Speaker 6: get your inspiration from?
Speaker 3: That's such a good question. I did a lot of
Speaker 3: research on secret societies in general, so I read a
Speaker 3: lot of nonfiction books about secret societies, just you know,
Speaker 3: studying the history of them.
Speaker 4: And then Sterling.
Speaker 3: Club is a fictional eating club, but inspired by a
Speaker 3: more thriller version of what some of the eating clubs
Speaker 3: felt like.
Speaker 4: To me.
Speaker 2: See, everybody is ab obsessed with these secret societies. You
Speaker 2: have tapped into some primal human nature stuff here.
Speaker 1: We're all so fascinated by it. I just think there's
Speaker 1: so much that's already there for intrigue, like symbolism, ritual power,
Speaker 1: and influence. Like, there's so many themes that exist within
Speaker 1: secret societies that make for a great mystery.
Speaker 2: So, Lauren, you've said that you hope Society of Lies
Speaker 2: inspires some harder conversations. What do you hope those conversations
Speaker 2: look like for your readers?
Speaker 3: Well, some of the themes in Society of Lies are privilege,
Speaker 3: multiracial identity, sisterhood, and belonging, like we talked about. And
Speaker 3: I think that, you know, instead of wanting to insert
Speaker 3: my opinion and my idea into my writing, my goal
Speaker 3: is to get people talking about these ideas in these
Speaker 3: situations that the characters are in, to hopefully get us
Speaker 3: to understand where the other person is coming from and
Speaker 3: realize that we're probably more alike than different, even if
Speaker 3: we think that we are on opposite sides of a
Speaker 3: certain conversation. So, I just think that there's so much nuance,
Speaker 3: there's so much gray area between these difficult questions that
Speaker 3: we've been talking a lot about lately.
Speaker 1: I think it's a little poetic that we started talking
Speaker 1: about questions and ended talking about questions too.
Speaker 4: Come full circle.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for joining us today, Lauren.
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. It was so nice talking with
Speaker 4: you both.
Speaker 1: You're a bright light.
Speaker 2: Lauren ling Brown is the author of Society of Lives,
Speaker 2: the October pick for Reese's Book Club.
Speaker 1: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, it's spooky season and
Speaker 1: we're talking all about ghosting with dating coach Sabrina zohar Boom.
Speaker 2: Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect
Speaker 2: with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram
Speaker 2: and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and
Speaker 2: feel free to tag us at Simone Boyce and at
Speaker 2: Danielle Robe.
Speaker 1: Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.