1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Hey Bessies, Hello Sunshine. Today on the bright Side, it's 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: time for another edition of shelf Life. We're joined by 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: author Lauren Lingk Brown, whose debut novel, Society of Lies, 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: is the October pick for Reese's Book Club. It's Monday, 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: October twenty eighth. I'm Danielle Robe. 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: And I'm Smoane Voice, and this is the bright Side 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 2: from Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together 8 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 2: to share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day. 9 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: On My Mind Monday is brought to you by Missus 10 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: Meyers Clean Day, inspired by the goodness of the garden. 11 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: All right, chall you know what time it is. It 12 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 2: is On my Mind Monday, kicking off the week with 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 2: a good source of inspiration and motivation. Oh yeah, okay, 14 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 2: what's inspiring you today? 15 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:44,959 Speaker 1: All right? 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: Well, I recently came across an article in the Atlantic 17 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: about the power of music, and you know, I'm like 18 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 2: all over that. And it's written by one of our 19 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: favorite voices, Arthur C. Brooks, and he explains how music 20 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 2: is quote one of the greatest ways to understand life 21 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 2: more deeply. He cites studies that show how our brains 22 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 2: are actually built to enjoy music and how music can 23 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 2: also be used to help us heal. 24 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: I've actually heard so many stories about how music helps people, 25 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: specifically in the hospital. Arthur C. Brooks is sort of 26 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: known as one of the grandfathers of happiness. Is there 27 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: a specific genre of music that elicits the most happiness? 28 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 2: So? To be fair, he says that the research findings 29 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 2: are inconclusive on that particular point. But he says that 30 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 2: there was one study that found that the world's happiest 31 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 2: song is actually I want you to guess what's the 32 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 2: happiest song? 33 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: Happy by Pharrell? That's what I was thinking too, Right, 34 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: It's gotta be a ceeviee Wonder song or got this feeling? 35 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:45,639 Speaker 1: Uh can't sound the feeling? 36 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: Yes? 37 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: Yes, justin Timberlake. 38 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: Okay, so the world's happiest song is actually Good Vibrations 39 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: by the Beach Boys. 40 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: WHOA. I kind of get that. 41 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: I feel like we need an update on that one though. 42 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: There's been a lot of time, a lot of music 43 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: that's passed. 44 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: And then I like that you're wanting to look at 45 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: the scientific research behind this. I could be updated. When 46 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: was the last study done? What year? Yeah? Exactly? Yeah? 47 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:14,119 Speaker 1: What song makes you the happiest. Hmm okay. I think 48 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: a lot of the songs that make me the happiest 49 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: are tied to memories. So like in my house growing up, 50 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: or in my dad's car, we would listen to a 51 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: lot of Elvis, a lot of Tina Turner, My mom 52 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 1: loves Carol King like, kind of the oldies, Stevie Wonder. 53 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: They make me really happy. Oh that's so cute. I 54 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: love that. How about you mind changes all the time? 55 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's something to what you're saying that 56 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 2: the songs that are tied to these core formative memories 57 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 2: are often the ones that shift our mood in the 58 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 2: most impactful way. 59 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: You also love a Chapel Roone bop? 60 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: I am. I am so deep into Chapel Roone at 61 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 2: the moment. I was at my friend Donovan's house the 62 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 2: other day and I hadn't seen it in a while 63 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 2: and found out that he's equally obsessed with Chaperone. We 64 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 2: really spend an hour, like on Spotify just listening to 65 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 2: all of her songs, dissecting everything, discussing why she is 66 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: the voice of our generation. 67 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: So I am obsessed. I just saw the Pharrell Lego 68 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: movie m H and I realized how many of his beats, 69 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: not even his songs, have made people happy, Like his 70 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: song Happy was the culmination of it all. 71 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 3: Yeah. 72 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, Do you have a sad girl song? Like a 73 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: song that you put on when you're in your feels? 74 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 4: Oh my god? 75 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: Who is it? Well, you're gonna love this song because 76 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: you love this play. But if you want me to 77 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: cry on command, if you put on for Good from Wicked, 78 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: I'm a mess. That's so sweet. Yeah, sad girl for real. 79 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to agree that one of my favorite 80 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 2: sad girl music choices is musical theater, especially like Tic 81 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: Tick Boom or Rent. Yeah, those are the songs that 82 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: get me in my feels. It's a great one, and 83 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 2: there is something to this. The article says that not 84 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: only can sad music soothe you, but research have also 85 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 2: found that it can help you understand your feelings and 86 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 2: sit with them and find meaning in them. 87 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: It can help you understand your feelings. That's really cool. 88 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: Well, it makes sense, right, especially if you're listening to 89 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 2: an emotionally evocative song. An incredible musician is able to 90 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 2: use music as a conduit for emotion. Yeah, you know, 91 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 2: so it makes sense. You're able to tap into whatever 92 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 2: emotional state they were in when they were writing it. 93 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 2: Adele is a great example of that. 94 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Celine Dion, all those big vocalists. 95 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 2: One last thing I want to leave everyone with. From 96 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 2: this article, Arthur C. Brooks listed out some ways that 97 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: we can use music to heighten our emotional experiences and 98 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: better understand ourselves. So one strategy that he notes is 99 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 2: decide what you want from your music. So he says, 100 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 2: if you want to use music as a way to 101 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: bond socially, listen with friends, like maybe you have a 102 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 2: chapel Ron listening party with your friends. If you want 103 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 2: to use it as a means of intensifying your emotions, 104 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 2: listen by yourself. And then if you want both, go 105 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 2: to a concert with friends. That's an amalgamation of them all. 106 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: Going to a concert with friends is one of the 107 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: best experiences in life. It doesn't get any better than that. 108 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,239 Speaker 1: So music and storytelling share a common thread. They both 109 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: have the power to transport us, to evoke emotion and 110 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: connect us to something deeper. 111 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 2: You know. 112 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: Just as a song can tell a story through rhythm 113 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: and melody, a great book can weave a tale that 114 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: stays with you long after you've finished reading. I know 115 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,559 Speaker 1: if you're listening to this, there's books that you're thinking 116 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: about right now, books that have stayed with you. And 117 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: our guest today has been mastering her love of storytelling 118 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,119 Speaker 1: for the past decade. Lauren Ling Brown is the author 119 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: of Society of Lies, the October pick for Reese's Book 120 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: Club and a USA Today bestseller. Society of Lies is 121 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: Lauren's debut novel. Prior to publishing it, she worked as 122 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: an editor in TV, film, documentaries and commercials, and she 123 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: had nearly given up on writing when she decided to 124 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 1: pen Society of Lies. The idea for the novel actually 125 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: started as a screenplay that she'd written about a decade earlier, 126 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: and over the pandemic, as Lauren was in what she 127 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: calls a low point in her life, she rediscovered her 128 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: love for writing, and she actually wrote three novels, Society 129 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: of Lies among them. 130 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 2: The novel is actually a super suspenseful murder mystery that 131 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 2: follows two biracial sisters, Maya and Naomi, as they navigate 132 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: dark academia and the underground world of secret societies at Princeton. 133 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: I love anything about secret societies. There's so much mystery there. 134 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: Laura Ling Brown's book is particularly delicious. Stay with us, 135 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: We'll be right back after the break. Thanks to our 136 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: partners at missus Myers, you can learn a lot about 137 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: a person by their dish soap. Missus Meyers's collection of 138 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: household products are inspired by the garden and pack a 139 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: punch against dirt and grime. Visit missus meyers dot com. 140 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 3: Welcome to the bright Side, Lauren, Thank you, thanks so 141 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 3: much for having me. 142 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: We're so happy to have you. Simone and I both 143 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: love any book about a secret society. Oh yeah, oh yeah, 144 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm all in. You know it's a quick win. But 145 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: this is your debut novel, Society of Lies. It's the 146 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: October pick for Reese's Book Club, and I have to say, 147 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty rare for a debut book to 148 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: have such a long journey. 149 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 4: Oh you mean the ten years. 150 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: Ten years in the making. After all of that time 151 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: and persistence and passion, how does it feel to finally 152 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,239 Speaker 1: see your story celebrated on a Reese's book Club stage 153 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: and beyond? 154 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 3: It feels like this dream that was so far off 155 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 3: that I never thought would actually be here is actually 156 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 3: coming true, and Reese has been a role model for 157 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 3: me growing up, and so it's just totally wild, all 158 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 3: the emotion. It was just, you know, one of those 159 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 3: things that you think, oh, that would be incredible if 160 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 3: that happened someday. But I'm just really grateful. 161 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: We can tell. But it's it's so deserving. The book 162 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: is awesome, and we noticed a recognizable name on the 163 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: book cover. There's an endorsement from Courtney Cox. Simone and 164 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: I both need to understand how this came about. 165 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 3: Well, in film school, I met someone who is now 166 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 3: a dear friend named Alex Jackson, and she is close 167 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 3: with Courtney and we all worked on a film together 168 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 3: where I edited, Alex directed, and Courtney was the executive producer. 169 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 4: And so. 170 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 3: Alex just offered to send my book to her, show 171 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 3: it to her, being like, I don't know if she's 172 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 3: going to read it, but maybe, and then she read 173 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 3: it and loved it and offered to blurb, which was 174 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 3: so kind of her. 175 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: Blurbs really help, especially from notable names on a book, 176 00:08:58,520 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: especially as a debut. 177 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was just really kind of her to do 178 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 4: that generous. 179 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 2: So Lauren, at its core, Society of Lies is a 180 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 2: murder mystery that's set in the world of secret societies 181 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 2: at Princeton. What was it about this particular story and 182 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 2: setting that you just couldn't shake. 183 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 3: I think just remembering who I was when I was 184 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 3: at age eighteen to twenty two and stepping off the 185 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 3: train and I'm from California, I'm from northern California, and 186 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 3: then stepping off the train in this beautiful East Coast 187 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 3: gothic campus. It was just incredible, such a culture shock, 188 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 3: but also an incredible experience over four years and really 189 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 3: something that had a big impact on me. So I've 190 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 3: been returning to this story over and over again, and 191 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 3: that's sort of the ten years that we were talking 192 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 3: about earlier. 193 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 2: So can you set the record straight for me? Are 194 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 2: there secret societies at Princeton? Is my friend lying to me? 195 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 3: Well, the major There aren't really many secret societies at Princeton. 196 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 3: Really everything revolves around the eating clubs, and there's about 197 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 3: eleven eating clubs. Some of them are signing and some 198 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 3: are bicker, meaning you have to rush, you have to 199 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 3: apply to get in. 200 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,239 Speaker 1: Is this like a sorority fraternity? Like what's an eating club? Yeah? 201 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, it's a weird word. My partner thought 202 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 3: it was like an eating competition club. 203 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: I think of it's like a dinner table where it's like, Okay, 204 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: this is who you're having dinner with in the cafeteria. 205 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, it is kind of like that. 206 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 3: They're these historic mansions, right that are independent of the 207 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 3: school on a street near campus, and you do eat there, 208 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 3: you have your your meals there, and it's for upper 209 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 3: classmen and at night they clear all the tables out 210 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 3: and have parties with DJs, and it's where most of 211 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 3: like seventy percent I think of the students are in 212 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 3: an eating club. 213 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: Were you in one? 214 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 4: I was? Which one are you in? I was in Coe? 215 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: What does that mean? What do you eat in the 216 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: Cottage Club? 217 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 2: And how do you get in? Like what is the 218 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: initiation process? 219 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 3: Okay, so the food varies, but it's all really good. 220 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 3: We have who's cooking, They have chefs and it was 221 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 3: a lot of Southern comfort food at Cottage, really delicious. 222 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 3: And I don't know, Cottage just kind of has athletes 223 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 3: in it. I played soccer freshman year, so the soccer 224 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 3: team was in it. 225 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 4: Cool. 226 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, what were the people like? 227 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 3: Well, because it's about seventy percent of Princeton, you know undergrads. 228 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 3: It really is similar to the people who are in 229 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 3: your classes. 230 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 4: So it's these high achieving. 231 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 3: Students, and it's not all super wealthy people. It's everyone 232 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 3: who's at Princeton. But the eating clubs each had their 233 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 3: own personality, their own identity, so it really varies by 234 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 3: eating club. 235 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 2: I think this is a story about identity, about belonging, 236 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: about the upper crost of society. And you've said that 237 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 2: this story really evolved over time. You had been sitting 238 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 2: with it for a long time. And when it comes 239 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 2: to a murder mystery, you've got to fit all these pieces, 240 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: these puzzle pieces together. 241 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: What is the secret to writing the perfect murder mystery? 242 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 3: I don't know if I know the secret turning the 243 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 3: perfect mystery, because it took me a lot of dress 244 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 3: to get to this one, and I still don't think 245 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 3: it's perfect by any means. But uh, I guess ten 246 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 3: years ago I wrote it as a screenplay because I 247 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 3: was just interested in this idea of an outsider at 248 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 3: Princeton getting involved in a secret society and dealing with 249 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 3: this moral dilemma, like is she going to take a 250 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 3: golden ticket that promises her the life of her dreams, 251 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 3: and will she stay even when she learns that the 252 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 3: secret society is her someone else. So that's the question 253 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 3: that I thought of when I wrote that screenplay and 254 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 3: then abandoned that idea and wrote this as a novel 255 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 3: over the pandemic. It was really just having that theme. 256 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 3: I guess that core idea in mind as the mystery 257 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 3: came to be as I did different drafts and crafted 258 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 3: the story. 259 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: I guess there's some intriguing parallels between your own story 260 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: and the book. Both of you are navigating life at Princeton. 261 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,839 Speaker 1: What was it specifically about your own experiences that really 262 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: sparked the idea of the murder mystery being on campus 263 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: at Princeton. Hm. 264 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 4: I think I. 265 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 3: Drew from my experience as a multiracial Black and Chinese 266 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 3: young woman throughout my entire life, so from growing up 267 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 3: in a mostly white high school in northern California, also 268 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 3: at Princeton, navigating different spaces. I was also in BAC, 269 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 3: like Naomi, the younger sister, the Black Arts Company, which 270 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 3: is this great dance group. And then I also drew 271 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 3: from my life after Princeton, working in post production and 272 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 3: also oftentimes being the only woman or person of color. 273 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: Simone and I were actually just talking before the interview 274 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: that so many of the guests we've had on, particularly 275 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: authors that have mixed identity points, really make that a 276 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: focal point of their writing, and it seems like everyone's 277 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what it means themselves, and the 278 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: writing is part of that process. You're nodding your head, Yeah, totally, 279 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: what do you think it is? 280 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 3: I think for me, so, I have been a big 281 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 3: journaler for my whole life. 282 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 4: Since I was a kid. 283 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 3: I always kept so many journals, and I would write 284 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 3: down just the most emotional things that happened. So whether 285 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 3: it was a breakup or someone cutting me in line 286 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 3: at the grocery store, it was just little things that 287 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 3: happened during the day. And I like to go back 288 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 3: to those journals entries and sort of use them in 289 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 3: my writing as a way to make give it power 290 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 3: and just find something good, use them for something good. 291 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: Well, I think there's a lot of truth to what 292 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 2: you're saying, Danielle. It is really interesting that this theme 293 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 2: keeps coming up, not just you know, on our show, 294 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 2: but in Reese's book Club, Like these stories about mixed 295 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 2: race characters are being celebrated and elevated and amplified. And 296 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: I'm not an author, but I am someone who has 297 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 2: lived experience as a biracial woman. And I think the 298 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: reason why these characters are so compelling is because they 299 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: exist in the gray area and the complexity and there's 300 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 2: just so much nuance to this experience. 301 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree with that, and I just want 302 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 3: to center more stories around our experiences and show that, 303 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 3: I don't know, we're not just one note that there's 304 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 3: so much nuance and complexity. 305 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something really compelling about a character who's like 306 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 2: straddling two worlds, which is exactly what the characters in 307 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 2: this book are going through. 308 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: Can I ask you one more question about identity? What 309 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: do you think you were specifically trying to sift through personally? 310 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 4: M good, That is such a good question. 311 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: Hmmm. 312 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 3: I think for me, just the key thing about this 313 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 3: character Maya, the older sister, is that she wants to 314 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 3: belong and trying to figure out like in what way 315 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 3: she's conforming to this world versus rejecting it. And then 316 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 3: the younger sister, Naomi, who's more secure, She's confident in 317 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 3: her identity and loves everything that makes her who she is, 318 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 3: and so she is, you know, the positive version of 319 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 3: this multiracial experience. 320 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: I think that is really interesting. I want to touch 321 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: on the sister dynamic because it's a huge part of 322 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: the plot. You said that this book improved your relationship 323 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: with your sister personally, how so. 324 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, So my sister is four years younger than me, 325 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 3: and we were very close growing up in high school 326 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 3: before that, but then when I went to college and 327 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 3: she went to a different school, and then we started 328 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 3: our careers, we were just living in different cities, not 329 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 3: communicating in the best way. I'm the older sister, so 330 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 3: I'm always giving advice when it's not always needed. 331 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: It's like you're a parent sister. Yes, I'm the same, 332 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: I get it. 333 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 4: I try not to. 334 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 3: But then now that we're in our thirties, and when 335 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 3: I was writing this book over the pandemic, going through 336 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 3: a really hard time in my life, like a bad 337 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 3: breakup and also different surgeries, she was really there for me. 338 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 3: And I think she got to know me through this 339 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 3: writing too, because I would read chapters to her. And 340 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 3: now she's reading the finished version of Society of Lives 341 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 3: and she called me saying that she really liked it 342 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 3: and like got more insight into my experience, I guess. 343 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,959 Speaker 3: And we just had a really nice moment talking about that, 344 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 3: and it really meant a lot to me. 345 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: Sounds like she almost flipped the script on you during 346 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: that time, like she became the caretaker a little and 347 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: it changed things. 348 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, I want to circle back to this theme 349 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: of belonging because it really feels like an engine throughout 350 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 2: this story that drives the characters forward. You've said that 351 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 2: your book is based on the question how far would 352 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 2: you go to belong? How much of yourself do you 353 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 2: see in Maya? How much of yourself do you see 354 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 2: in Naomi? And as you were writing this, what did 355 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 2: this book bring up for you in terms of how 356 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 2: far you went to try to fit in? 357 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good question. 358 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 3: So Maya I see as who I was in high school, 359 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 3: this very guarded, shy, bookish kid who didn't feel like 360 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 3: she fit in in any space is But then when 361 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 3: I went to Princeton, luckily, I you know, there wasn't 362 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 3: a grace done society. So I joined BAC, the Black 363 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 3: Arts Company, which is this dance group that was very 364 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 3: inclusive and welcoming and had friends who embraced me and 365 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 3: helped me celebrate, you know, my identity. And so then 366 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 3: I feel like I evolved into Naomi the younger sister 367 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 3: through that experience, and I identify with her more now. 368 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: I'd say, what do you think you would go back 369 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: and tell Princeton College Lauren about fitting in? 370 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 3: Ooh about fitting in? Yeah, you asked how far I'd 371 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 3: go to belong Hmm. I would tell her not to 372 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 3: worry so much. Who cares? Like, now that I'm in 373 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 3: my thirties, I don't care what people think. I'm just 374 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 3: trying to make my art and help other people and 375 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 3: help my friends, you know, and my family. It doesn't matter. 376 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 3: I and when I was in school, I really wanted 377 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 3: to write. I wanted to be a novelist, but I 378 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:08,239 Speaker 3: didn't have the confidence to really pursue it. And I 379 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 3: was you know, I started off as an econ major. 380 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 3: I thought I was doing this path that felt more stable. 381 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 3: So my whole life, I've been sort of struggling between 382 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 3: do I do the thing that is stable, or do 383 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 3: I go for my dreams. 384 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: I think that's a question that resonates with a lot 385 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: of people. You know, you mentioned surgeries Earlier, You've been 386 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: pretty open about the personal struggles that you experienced with 387 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: your health and relationships while you've been writing this book. 388 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: Are you willing to share some specifics for our listeners 389 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: to understand sort of the headspace that you were in. 390 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, So I guess going back to high school, 391 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 3: I played soccer and I had this injury when I 392 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,479 Speaker 3: was fifteen. A girl just purposely ran through my knee 393 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 3: and tore everything. And it was just a high school game. 394 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 3: And then since then, I've had five surgeries on that 395 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 3: knee and over the pandemic, I had to have one 396 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 3: a cartilage replacement, and then also both hips label tears. 397 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 3: So I spent over a year on crutches, off and on. 398 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 3: Each time it was like somewhere between four and seven months, 399 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 3: depending on the surgery. And it was just a really 400 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 3: hard time for me because I was also I had 401 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 3: been with someone for six years and then got married 402 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 3: and divorced, and it just was a really low point 403 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 3: in my life. Like my mental health definitely suffered, and 404 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 3: so I turned to writing as a way to like 405 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 3: work through some of that. 406 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: When you're a physical person and some of your physicality 407 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: feels stripped from you. It's debilitating physically and mentally. 408 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 4: Yeah. 409 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: Are there other books that you read during that time 410 00:21:58,280 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: that you found? 411 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, I read a lot of Reese's 412 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 3: book Club books because it was around. It was right 413 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 3: after twenty seventeen. Yeah, I was twenty nineteen when I 414 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 3: had my first surgery, So I read Celeste Ing, I 415 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 3: read Kylie Reid, Taylor Jenkins read just so many good 416 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 3: books during that time. Americana Never Let Me Go by 417 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 3: Kazuishu Guro is another one I love. 418 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: I feel like, at the lowest points of my life 419 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: when therapy didn't feel comforting, women's stories, whether they were 420 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: fictional or nonfiction, helped me. 421 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 4: Yes, totally. 422 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 3: And then when the world shoot down during the pandemic, 423 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 3: there was this bookstagram community that I found and everyone 424 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 3: loved reading. We were all I was in this book 425 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 3: club actually with people women all over the world. One 426 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 3: person was in Australia, someone was in the UK. We 427 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 3: were all spread out over the US too, and it 428 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 3: was just a really cool experience. 429 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: That's interesting because you're kind of talking about belonging again, 430 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: like you almost formed your own new eating club. Yeah, 431 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: it's just around books, not food. 432 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 2: It's time for another short break, but don't go anywhere. 433 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 2: We'll be right back to shelf Life with Lauren ling Brown. 434 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 2: And we're back with Lauren ling Brown. Okay, this next 435 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 2: question that I have for you is a little weird 436 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 2: for me to say, but I'm going to try my 437 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 2: best to say it. Okay, So, we heard from our 438 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 2: team that our recent episode on imposter syndrome resonated with 439 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 2: you in a big way. 440 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 3: What was it that stuck out to you about that conversation? Yeah, 441 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 3: so I was at Shinaway. I went to your live 442 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 3: recording and it was awesome. You actually someone. You said 443 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 3: something that really resonated with me. You said, we can 444 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 3: reframe imposterson to thinking of it as if we are 445 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 3: taking the next leap in our career, so we're pushing 446 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 3: ourselves to our limits. And I don't remember exactly how 447 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 3: you said it, you said it so beautifully. 448 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: No, that's it. 449 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 3: But I really love that, and that resonated with me 450 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 3: because I've been someone who's been actively fighting against imposter 451 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 3: syndrome in my career in editing the whole time, you know, 452 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 3: for the past ten years. And so yeah, to hear 453 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 3: you say that was really nice, and I like that idea. 454 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,239 Speaker 1: I also find that imposter syndrome is exacerbated when you're 455 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: underrepresented in your context. And there's just not a lot 456 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: of women editors out there, so I can imagine it's 457 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: just sort of multiplied. 458 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 3: Absolutely not to tell too many of these stories, but 459 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 3: I was editing something and my assistant editor was a 460 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 3: white guy who's a little bit older than me. And 461 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 3: I was at the editing desk and he was at 462 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 3: the assistant editing desk, and the client walked in and 463 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: they shook his hand, assuming he was the editor, you know, 464 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 3: and I sat back down and I was like, oh 465 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 3: my god, and it just epitomized everything I was feeling. 466 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 3: So I think sometimes imposter syndrome can come from small interactions. 467 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 3: And of course that person didn't mean anything by it. 468 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 3: He just assumed. 469 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 470 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 2: It's interesting to me to hear you talk about imposter 471 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 2: syndrome because I believe that you experienced it, but you 472 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,719 Speaker 2: found a way to push through it, like talk about 473 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 2: mastering a pivot. You started out Society of Lives started 474 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 2: out as a screenplay, and then you decided to turn 475 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 2: it into a novel because you felt like it had 476 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 2: more possibility there. You know, we often hear about authors 477 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 2: doing it the other way around, right, like the novel 478 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 2: then gets adapted. 479 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: Take me into that calculus. 480 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, well it wasn't intentional. I wish I could say 481 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 3: it was. But I wrote it as a screenplay sort 482 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 3: of as my thesis at USC when I was in 483 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 3: film school. And then I didn't know anyone in the industry, 484 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 3: so I was trying to sell it, trying to I 485 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 3: was doing internships around Hollywood, around the entertainment industry, and 486 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 3: you know, would send it to my bosses or anyone 487 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 3: who would be willing to read it. But I didn't 488 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 3: know anyone. I didn't know how to find my way 489 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 3: into a writer's room. So I sort of just gave 490 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 3: up on the dream of writing. And I needed to 491 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 3: pay my rent, so I got a job as a 492 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 3: vault manager at a post house, meaning it was mostly 493 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 3: commercials and music videos and documentaries, and I was responsible 494 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 3: for sending and shipping and packaging the drives, the hard 495 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 3: drives that came from set. And so then I worked 496 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 3: my way up, became an assistant editor and an editor, 497 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 3: and I wrote as a hobby just on the side. 498 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 2: Wow, I do think that some of those tours, even 499 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 2: though they're not exactly what we had in mind, I 500 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 2: think they can be super instructional for us. What do 501 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 2: you think you learned from those experiences that's still serving 502 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 2: you today. 503 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 4: Oh, it's so helpful. 504 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 3: I mean being an assistant editor and an editor, you 505 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 3: have to be so organized, and I think that that 506 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 3: really helps in my writing and just not being afraid 507 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 3: to scrap scenes. I'm a big rewriter, so I love 508 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 3: to just sketch out the whole story and then just 509 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 3: go back and rewrite forever and just layer more mystery, 510 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 3: more threads, and more depth on top of what I 511 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 3: started with. So I think that really helps. And also 512 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 3: just in editing, you really have to tell a story 513 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 3: visually because you have your sound, you have the music, 514 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 3: you have that the dailies, the clips from set, and 515 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 3: you get to use all these pieces like a puzzle 516 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 3: and put together the scene to have tension and emotion. 517 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 3: And so I try to think of that when I'm 518 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 3: approaching my writing as well. 519 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: Wow, Simone and I love when we have authors on 520 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,479 Speaker 1: and they read to us. Would you be willing to 521 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: read a section of your story? 522 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 4: I'd love to. 523 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 3: Okay, So this is from chapter twenty three, and don't worry, 524 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 3: there's no spoilers, but it's Maya the older sister's timeline, 525 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 3: and we're back in November twenty eleven when she is 526 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 3: first getting into the secret society, Grace Stone Society. 527 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 4: From that point on, I felt different. I was different. 528 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 3: Something changed in the way I carried myself, looked people 529 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 3: in the eye. Heads turned when Daisy and I walked 530 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 3: into a room, and I knew they were watching us 531 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 3: with envy. In the weeks following initiation, we spent languid 532 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 3: days wandering to and from class night's cross legged on 533 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 3: someone's dorm room floor, spilling secrets by candlelight until our 534 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 3: lips were stained purple with wine. We laughed hysterically, danced 535 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 3: until sunrise, drank and studied, and ate at sterling absorbed 536 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 3: into her womb. We had Graystone Society meetings every Sunday, 537 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 3: the location in time of which would vary, where all 538 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 3: twenty one of us would gather around candle at dinners 539 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 3: in a sheltered corner of campus to discuss poetry, art 540 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 3: and politics and ways in which we could benefit the society. 541 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 3: There was a hum running through everything, then a feeling 542 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 3: like we were living in a world within a world 543 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 3: within a world, one to which only we had access. 544 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 3: Most important, I'd been able to send money back to Naomi. 545 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 3: My plan was to do whatever it took to make 546 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 3: it for her, for us, and Greystone Society was the 547 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 3: start of it. Still, at night, when I was drifting 548 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 3: to sleep, the question lingered why had they chosen me? 549 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 3: And because I couldn't answer, this new life felt temporary. 550 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 3: I suspected one day it would vanish and I'd wake 551 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 3: up and realize it had been nothing but a dream. 552 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 3: One night, after dinner, Daisy and I were walking back 553 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 3: to her dorm when the sound of tires on gravel 554 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 3: came up behind me. We turned to see Cecily and 555 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 3: Kai in a decked out golf cart. This was it. 556 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 3: I had made it. I was part of their inner circle. 557 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 3: I was friends with the most beautiful, successful and envied 558 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 3: girls on campus. 559 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: Hmmm, Lauren, you have an incredible voice too. 560 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 2: No, you just no take take it okay, because you 561 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 2: just snapped into something there, Like she opened the book 562 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 2: and then she got on the mic and she was like, 563 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 2: She's like the drama came through the voice. I'm I'm 564 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 2: here for it that was so immersive. Well, our bright 565 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 2: side besties have loved your book just as much as 566 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 2: Danielle and I have, and they have some questions about 567 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 2: Society of Lies. So first up is Emma. She's actually 568 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 2: fresh out of college herself and she's curious about your 569 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 2: own Princeton experience. 570 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: Hi. 571 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 5: My name is Emma and I am from Minnesota. I 572 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 5: absolutely love Society of Lies and the complexities of all 573 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 5: the mysteries that were involved. As soon as I started 574 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 5: reading this book, I was hooked and just could not 575 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 5: put it down until I had figured everything out. I 576 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 5: also thought I was really refreshing to have themes of friendship, class, 577 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 5: sisterhood in college. I've recently graduated college and since then 578 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 5: I've been really nostalgic. I've noticed I've been really drawn 579 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 5: in novels with college themes to relive those days, which 580 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,719 Speaker 5: was why I was really excited to read Society of Lies. 581 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 5: My question is, when you were writing this book, even 582 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 5: though it is largely fictitious, like you mentioned in your acknowledgments, 583 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 5: what were the best moments of your college years of 584 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 5: Princeton that you wanted readers to gain a little bit 585 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 5: of insight into. 586 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 4: Hi Emma. 587 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your question. I love that, 588 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 3: and thank you for reading the book. My favorite moments 589 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 3: were being in BAC the Black Arts Company and dancing 590 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 3: on the stage in the first auditorium with so many 591 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 3: of my friends, and there would be two hundred or 592 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 3: more of our friends in the crowd just cheering for us. 593 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 3: It was just such a welcoming, supportive environment and I 594 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 3: just really miss those days. And then I also loved 595 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 3: being an English major and getting to read all day 596 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 3: in these beautiful libraries and sit in these incredible classrooms 597 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 3: like Macosh fifty, which is referenced in the book too. 598 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 4: So yeah, I had a great time. 599 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 2: We were just talking with our producer about how much 600 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 2: we love just walking around college campuses and pretending like 601 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 2: we're still in There's something so magical about like that environment. 602 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 2: There's so much possibility there. 603 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: I also love the creativity there, like all the big 604 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: ideas usually come from young people. 605 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 2: Yes, the youthful energy. There's something really energizing and inspiring 606 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 2: about it. 607 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, you feel less. I can't. It's like the world 608 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: hasn't hit you with the you can't. Yeah, yeah as much. Okay, Well, 609 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: next up. We have Ali, so we all know Society 610 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: of Lies is about the elite secret societies of Princeton, 611 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: and she wants you to spill the tea on just 612 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: how real they are. 613 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 6: Hi there, my name is Ali Lauren. I loved your book. 614 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 6: It gave me total school movie vibes. I wanted to 615 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 6: ask you today a bit about the Princeton eating clubs 616 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 6: and the secret societies that you wrote so well. At 617 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 6: the beginning of your book, you mentioned that the first 618 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 6: Princeton eating club came about in eighteen seventy nine. At 619 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 6: the end of the book, in your author's note, you 620 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 6: mentioned how Graystone and Sterling were made up secret societies 621 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 6: that you created. I want to know how you wrote 622 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 6: them so well. They felt so realistic. Where did you 623 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 6: get your inspiration from? 624 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 3: That's such a good question. I did a lot of 625 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 3: research on secret societies in general, so I read a 626 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 3: lot of nonfiction books about secret societies, just you know, 627 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 3: studying the history of them. 628 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 4: And then Sterling. 629 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 3: Club is a fictional eating club, but inspired by a 630 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 3: more thriller version of what some of the eating clubs 631 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 3: felt like. 632 00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 4: To me. 633 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 2: See, everybody is ab obsessed with these secret societies. You 634 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 2: have tapped into some primal human nature stuff here. 635 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: We're all so fascinated by it. I just think there's 636 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: so much that's already there for intrigue, like symbolism, ritual power, 637 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: and influence. Like, there's so many themes that exist within 638 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: secret societies that make for a great mystery. 639 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 2: So, Lauren, you've said that you hope Society of Lies 640 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 2: inspires some harder conversations. What do you hope those conversations 641 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 2: look like for your readers? 642 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 3: Well, some of the themes in Society of Lies are privilege, 643 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 3: multiracial identity, sisterhood, and belonging, like we talked about. And 644 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 3: I think that, you know, instead of wanting to insert 645 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,720 Speaker 3: my opinion and my idea into my writing, my goal 646 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 3: is to get people talking about these ideas in these 647 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 3: situations that the characters are in, to hopefully get us 648 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 3: to understand where the other person is coming from and 649 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 3: realize that we're probably more alike than different, even if 650 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,359 Speaker 3: we think that we are on opposite sides of a 651 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 3: certain conversation. So, I just think that there's so much nuance, 652 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 3: there's so much gray area between these difficult questions that 653 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 3: we've been talking a lot about lately. 654 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 1: I think it's a little poetic that we started talking 655 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: about questions and ended talking about questions too. 656 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 4: Come full circle. 657 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for joining us today, Lauren. 658 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. It was so nice talking with 659 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 4: you both. 660 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: You're a bright light. 661 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 2: Lauren ling Brown is the author of Society of Lives, 662 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 2: the October pick for Reese's Book Club. 663 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, it's spooky season and 664 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: we're talking all about ghosting with dating coach Sabrina zohar Boom. 665 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 2: Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect 666 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 2: with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram 667 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 2: and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and 668 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 2: feel free to tag us at Simone Boyce and at 669 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 2: Danielle Robe. 670 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 671 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 672 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 2: See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.