1
00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:06,000
Speaker 1: This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.

2
00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:09,440
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison Lauren Zema coming to you from the home

3
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,560
Speaker 1: office in Austin, Texas. LZ. We're at it again, divorce.

4
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,279
Speaker 2: We're talking about divorce, We talk about it. Are we

5
00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,040
Speaker 2: talking about it too much? I'm talking about divorce and

6
00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,040
Speaker 2: death a lot in life. Do I need to reel

7
00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:21,280
Speaker 2: it in?

8
00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,120
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, and we're going to get into this

9
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,960
Speaker 1: today with our guest Laura Wasser, who is the go

10
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,159
Speaker 1: to divorce attorney really in the world. The list of

11
00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,520
Speaker 1: a listers and els will go into this who she's

12
00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,159
Speaker 1: represented in just a second. But the reason we do

13
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,879
Speaker 1: talk about death, mental health, divorce, these are things that

14
00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,279
Speaker 1: affect all of us. They will affect all of us

15
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,600
Speaker 1: at some point. That's just statistically the truth.

16
00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,640
Speaker 2: Death is a guarantee and right half of marriages and

17
00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:50,480
Speaker 2: a divorce.

18
00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,560
Speaker 1: Right, whether it's your parents, whether it's a friend, whether

19
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,280
Speaker 1: it's happened to you or will happen to you. Divorce

20
00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,760
Speaker 1: is something that's just it's not taboo. It's something we

21
00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,040
Speaker 1: can and should talk about. So it's not this huge, looming,

22
00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:07,720
Speaker 1: dark disaster out there that's going to envelop us and

23
00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 1: swallow us. It's something that we can understand and maybe

24
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,319
Speaker 1: avoid if we understand it.

25
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,440
Speaker 2: So true, and we wanted to talk to people. So

26
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,480
Speaker 2: we recently spoke to a divorce coach on the podcast

27
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,119
Speaker 2: Tara Eisenheart. If you missed that episode, check it out.

28
00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,560
Speaker 2: And after speaking to her, we thought, because she was

29
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,920
Speaker 2: very clear she does not get into the legalities, and

30
00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,000
Speaker 2: we thought, so let's bring a lawyer on. And we

31
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:30,960
Speaker 2: wanted to bring the very best of the best. And

32
00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,560
Speaker 2: what I loved about our conversation with Laura Wasser, which

33
00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,759
Speaker 2: you're all about to hear, is that she did offer

34
00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,920
Speaker 2: some tips of, you know, having watched marriages dissolve for

35
00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,080
Speaker 2: decades in her business, how they could have gone better,

36
00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,319
Speaker 2: how things maybe could have been saved. So we get

37
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,400
Speaker 2: into it all from how a marriage could be saved,

38
00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,960
Speaker 2: to how to first approach a divorce, to how much

39
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,880
Speaker 2: a divorce attorney could really cost you. And Laura has

40
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,040
Speaker 2: a resume that is just unparalleled. I've known her name

41
00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 2: for years because working an energy tament news you know

42
00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,840
Speaker 2: the name Laura Wasser. She has represented everybody, Kim Kardashian,

43
00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 2: Ryan Reynolds, Anna Faris, Maria Shreiver, Stevie Wonder, just to

44
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 2: name a few. I mean, that's just the tip of

45
00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:18,000
Speaker 2: the celebrity client Iceberg. She has numerous accolades under her belt.

46
00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,160
Speaker 2: A graduate of University of California, she has been a

47
00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,440
Speaker 2: guest lecturer at multiple law schools. She went to Berkeley,

48
00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,799
Speaker 2: So she's just incredible and we can't wait to hear

49
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,360
Speaker 2: for you to hear a conversation with her. Please welcome

50
00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,800
Speaker 2: Laura Wasser. Laura, I'm so excited to talk to you.

51
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,120
Speaker 2: I used its over easy dot com? Did you for

52
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:40,880
Speaker 2: my divorce?

53
00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:42,079
Speaker 3: And was it?

54
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,880
Speaker 2: It was over easy? Absolutely loved it, big fan of yours.

55
00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, we just absolutely loved it. So we're excited

56
00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:49,840
Speaker 2: to dive right in with you.

57
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,480
Speaker 1: Okay, good, Wait, so you know I didn't know this? Yes,

58
00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,040
Speaker 1: what was so easy about it? Why? Why did you

59
00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:57,840
Speaker 1: like this process?

60
00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,360
Speaker 2: Okay? So I used Laura Wasser's it's over easy dot com,

61
00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,560
Speaker 2: which Laura now is divorce dot com. Right.

62
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,440
Speaker 4: Yes, we were absorbed by divorce dot Com and I

63
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,320
Speaker 4: became their chief of divorce Evolution.

64
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:11,760
Speaker 3: Wow.

65
00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,040
Speaker 2: Wow, what a business called that comes with the title

66
00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:16,680
Speaker 2: of being the chief of divorce Evolution.

67
00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,280
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm basically just the face of it, their

68
00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:25,280
Speaker 4: spokesperson whatever. And I love it because what we had

69
00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,040
Speaker 4: with that's soverasy and I'm glad that you had a

70
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,200
Speaker 4: good time using it. Was it just we didn't have

71
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,520
Speaker 4: the funds to like really make a great platform that

72
00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,960
Speaker 4: was easy. You know, I know divorce law really well.

73
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:38,800
Speaker 4: When we started it, I think I had been doing

74
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,440
Speaker 4: it for like twenty years. I've now been doing it

75
00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,720
Speaker 4: for thirty years. But I'm not a tech person. I

76
00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 4: didn't know how to push this button and that goes there.

77
00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,680
Speaker 4: And I think why we called it It's over Easy,

78
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,800
Speaker 4: and why divorce dot Com is so great as you're

79
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:54,160
Speaker 4: going through this really miserable time emotionally, and it shouldn't

80
00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,800
Speaker 4: be super complicated, you know, legally or technically or whatever.

81
00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,360
Speaker 4: You should be able to answer certain questions that you

82
00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,320
Speaker 4: know the app asks you about your situation, plug certain

83
00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,960
Speaker 4: things in, fill out forms, and have it done. And

84
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,600
Speaker 4: I think divorce dot Com does that much better than

85
00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,880
Speaker 4: It's over Easy did. And I think that both of

86
00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:17,440
Speaker 4: those platforms do it better less expensively than you know,

87
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,440
Speaker 4: in a lot of instances, having two lawyers getting into

88
00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,800
Speaker 4: a pissing contest, whatever their past is or anything else.

89
00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,200
Speaker 1: This is something that's been in your family, your dad,

90
00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,960
Speaker 1: now you, and I'm just curious, how has it evolved.

91
00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,359
Speaker 1: Laura and I have both been through divorces. I'm the

92
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,760
Speaker 1: product of a divorce. How have you seen it evolve?

93
00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,800
Speaker 3: Even in my thirty years of doing it, It's evolved.

94
00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:42,560
Speaker 4: But if you really even go back to like what

95
00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,640
Speaker 4: I was growing up with and what we were talking

96
00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,520
Speaker 4: about at the dinner table when I was a kid

97
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,640
Speaker 4: and my dad was doing divorce law, I mean, we

98
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,040
Speaker 4: now have same sex marriage, which is amazing. It also

99
00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,480
Speaker 4: means we have same sex divorce. There used to be

100
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,040
Speaker 4: a totally different set of rules if same sex couples

101
00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,400
Speaker 4: split up, had kids, all of that stuff. So that's

102
00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,080
Speaker 4: been a big change in not in the thirty years

103
00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,400
Speaker 4: I've been practicing California, but in other states.

104
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:07,800
Speaker 3: We have no fault.

105
00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,240
Speaker 4: Divorce, which I now am aware that the conservative right

106
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,520
Speaker 4: is trying to take away. But no fault divorce means

107
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:18,119
Speaker 4: like when you see irreconcilable differences box checked like it means, yeah,

108
00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,520
Speaker 4: we know you all have beef with each other. Maybe

109
00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,840
Speaker 4: he didn't leave put the toilet seat down, or maybe

110
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,159
Speaker 4: she cheated on you. Whatever it is, it doesn't matter.

111
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,760
Speaker 4: It's not working out. You're getting divorced, as opposed to

112
00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,279
Speaker 4: pages and pages of evidence about what he or she did.

113
00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,400
Speaker 4: That's irrelevant. We're getting divorced, we're moving on. And so

114
00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:39,440
Speaker 4: that's been a big change. I think that generally the

115
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,680
Speaker 4: legislature in all states is trying to make it simpler

116
00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,800
Speaker 4: for people to get divorced, even though I think this

117
00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,359
Speaker 4: country favors marriage, but I do think they're trying to

118
00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,680
Speaker 4: make it easier because it really is. There's a lot

119
00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,520
Speaker 4: of red tape, and our court systems are really backed up,

120
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,720
Speaker 4: and so what the changes have been good and bad.

121
00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,839
Speaker 4: Now we do hearing sometimes remote amazing.

122
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:01,400
Speaker 3: That's amazing.

123
00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:02,640
Speaker 4: You don't have to get in your car and drive

124
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 4: an hour downtown and charge your client for that. So

125
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,359
Speaker 4: there's been really good evolution of it. And I also

126
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,400
Speaker 4: think it's less taboo. You know, thirty years ago, nope,

127
00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,440
Speaker 4: we didn't have podcasts, but nobody wanted to have me

128
00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,920
Speaker 4: on their TV show talking about divorce. I mean, even

129
00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,000
Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen when I wrote a book, they said,

130
00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:18,719
Speaker 4: we don't really want to talk about divorce.

131
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,160
Speaker 2: It's so depressing, so true, and Chris and I are

132
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,520
Speaker 2: always saying that, Look, we're both sitting here too very

133
00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,760
Speaker 2: happy divorcees. And I'm not saying divorce isn't hard, but

134
00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,560
Speaker 2: like divorce can be very positive in your life overall.

135
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,680
Speaker 2: And as you're talking to us, Laura, you have a

136
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,320
Speaker 2: pile of paperwork on your desk behind you, and I

137
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:39,920
Speaker 2: want to touch on what you just said, but all

138
00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 2: the red tape, Chris knows this about me. I have

139
00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,320
Speaker 2: a paranoia about paperwork. I understand this is a flaw

140
00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,520
Speaker 2: of mine, and I wish I was better at documents

141
00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 2: and paperwork, but that was the biggest thing with me

142
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,560
Speaker 2: when I was getting divorced. And luckily, like we didn't

143
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,000
Speaker 2: have kids, so there were a lot of things that

144
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,000
Speaker 2: we could take out of the conversation. But truly, when

145
00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,839
Speaker 2: I found your website, it's over easy nowdivorce dot com girl,

146
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,960
Speaker 2: I bought the premium package and I said, absolutely, let

147
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,880
Speaker 2: me throw just a little bit of money at this

148
00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,120
Speaker 2: problem to avoid throwing a whole lot of money and

149
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,920
Speaker 2: time at this problem. And you guys did make it

150
00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,680
Speaker 2: so easy. They basically sent us all the paperwork and

151
00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 2: we just had to sign like we kind of filled

152
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,480
Speaker 2: out a quick questionnaire of what our issues were. We

153
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,400
Speaker 2: wanted to split the profit we'd have from selling our house,

154
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,640
Speaker 2: and that was basically it, and you guys made it

155
00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 2: so easy for us. So I also love hearing you

156
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,720
Speaker 2: say as a divorce attorney that you don't want two

157
00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,080
Speaker 2: lawyers to get in a quote big pissing contest. But

158
00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,760
Speaker 2: tell me that feels like almost counterproductive to you racking

159
00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:40,800
Speaker 2: up your billable hours.

160
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 3: So how do you.

161
00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,160
Speaker 2: Compromise those two schools of thought of you got to

162
00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:47,560
Speaker 2: make your money, but also you want it to be

163
00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:48,360
Speaker 2: easier for people.

164
00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,560
Speaker 4: I think there's always going to be a complex, difficult

165
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,240
Speaker 4: situations and divorce for which people need attorneys. If a

166
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,880
Speaker 4: family lives in California and mom wants to move to

167
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,640
Speaker 4: New York and they've got little kids, it's going to

168
00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,440
Speaker 4: be very difficult to work that out. You can't do

169
00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,640
Speaker 4: week on, week off or two two five, you know,

170
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:09,640
Speaker 4: custody schedule.

171
00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,280
Speaker 3: But for the most part, especially I think young people.

172
00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,520
Speaker 4: I think people that have uncomplicated situations, like you were saying,

173
00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,640
Speaker 4: if there aren't kids, or if there are kids, and

174
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,200
Speaker 4: you just really know we've already kind of worked the

175
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,720
Speaker 4: custody part out. I think it lends itself to it,

176
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:25,800
Speaker 4: and so yes, I have had some of my colleagues say,

177
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,560
Speaker 4: you're totally cannibalizing our industry.

178
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,680
Speaker 3: What are you doing? But I don't think that's true.

179
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,880
Speaker 4: I really do think that people now are dating online,

180
00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 4: they're banking online, they're shopping online, they do their taxes online.

181
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:37,760
Speaker 4: If you can make it simpler for them to go

182
00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,120
Speaker 4: through this process and do it that way, I think

183
00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,840
Speaker 4: it's better for everybody. And I think that, like you

184
00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,760
Speaker 4: were saying, Chris, as a child of divorce, I don't

185
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,040
Speaker 4: know how that was for you, but I would like

186
00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 4: to see a generation of kids that grow up and go, yeah,

187
00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,280
Speaker 4: my parents got divorced, but they were both still at

188
00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,400
Speaker 4: all my birthday parties. They both came to my high

189
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,280
Speaker 4: school graduation. They got along because it was simpler and

190
00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,800
Speaker 4: it made sense. I think that's just a healthier society

191
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,880
Speaker 4: to have. And I say to clients all the time,

192
00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,040
Speaker 4: your conflict earns me money. If you guys can work

193
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,160
Speaker 4: out conflict, then you should. And that's just the way

194
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:10,160
Speaker 4: we practice law too.

195
00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,920
Speaker 1: You can talk to my therapist about how it went, Laura.

196
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,880
Speaker 1: It is funny because you, Lauren and I it sounds

197
00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,640
Speaker 1: terrible that we talk about divorce a lot, but through

198
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,600
Speaker 1: this podcast, we talk about relationships, and divorces is a

199
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,480
Speaker 1: part of that. In breakups are a part of that.

200
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,480
Speaker 1: And there are certain subjects that I'm hoping will continue

201
00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,960
Speaker 1: to be less taboo. Mental health, suicide, all of these

202
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,800
Speaker 1: things that are such a part of our lives that

203
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,320
Speaker 1: we ignore and we act like we act like fifty

204
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,679
Speaker 1: percent of all marriages don't end divorce. They do, So

205
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,520
Speaker 1: why do we have to pretend like this is this

206
00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,880
Speaker 1: taboo thing that we whisper at dinner parties and we

207
00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,439
Speaker 1: don't talk about You're right, it should be okay to

208
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,440
Speaker 1: talk about it. But again, we don't need to celebrate it.

209
00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,720
Speaker 1: We don't need to be glad. But at the same time,

210
00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,760
Speaker 1: it doesn't need to be such a horror finding life

211
00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,480
Speaker 1: changing event and shamefield and shamefield.

212
00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it is happening. I mean, that's the thing.

213
00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,240
Speaker 4: It's happening, so we might as well do it more

214
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,080
Speaker 4: amicably and more cost effectively. And I think that that's

215
00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,400
Speaker 4: a really good way of looking. I don't celebrate I

216
00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,360
Speaker 4: see these people having divorce parties and all that.

217
00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:18,840
Speaker 3: It's not really my thing. If that's what you need

218
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:19,600
Speaker 3: to get through it.

219
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,680
Speaker 4: Fine, But I just find that, you know, I'm at

220
00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,080
Speaker 4: an age right now where I have a lot of

221
00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,679
Speaker 4: friends whose kids are leaving for college, their second kid

222
00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,880
Speaker 4: or whatever, and so they're empty nesters and they kind

223
00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,480
Speaker 4: of are looking at each other going, Okay, which road

224
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:33,960
Speaker 4: are we going to take? Because so many people stay

225
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,720
Speaker 4: together for the kids, and now they're like, wait a minute,

226
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,880
Speaker 4: we have nothing to talk about anymore, or we're not

227
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,360
Speaker 4: even you know, in we don't even like the same

228
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:42,080
Speaker 4: things anymore.

229
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:43,640
Speaker 3: Should those people stay together?

230
00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,640
Speaker 4: But should the people who have kids that aren't leaving

231
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,000
Speaker 4: for college stay together? Isn't it healthier for kids to

232
00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,000
Speaker 4: see two happy parents, even if they're not living under

233
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:51,840
Speaker 4: the same roof.

234
00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,160
Speaker 3: Then two miserable human beings coexisting? So I do.

235
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,200
Speaker 4: I just think taking the taboo out of it is

236
00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,679
Speaker 4: a really big deal, and I think that's probably one

237
00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,880
Speaker 4: of the best things about this evolution that we're seeing

238
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:08,560
Speaker 4: about all those subjects, as you said, also abortion, menopause. Yeah,

239
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,960
Speaker 4: you know, any of those things will never talk about

240
00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:12,600
Speaker 4: and you're like, why it's happening.

241
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,440
Speaker 2: It blows my mind that people with carriages, you.

242
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,319
Speaker 4: Know, like, why didn't anybody tell me that whatever one

243
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,959
Speaker 4: out of three, all of those things, we're bringing them

244
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,080
Speaker 4: to the forefront. We're talking about them and now at

245
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,920
Speaker 4: divorce dot Com. Giving a sense of community, having other

246
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,520
Speaker 4: people that you can talk to and said, yeah, I

247
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,960
Speaker 4: went through this, here's what it is. Moms do that

248
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,640
Speaker 4: all the time when you give birth and you have

249
00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,559
Speaker 4: a baby, but nobody ever does it with the other stuff.

250
00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,960
Speaker 4: And so that I think is a really great thing

251
00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,280
Speaker 4: to be kind of working through and not celebrating, but

252
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,840
Speaker 4: celebrating the sense of community and the ability to communicate

253
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:45,440
Speaker 4: about it.

254
00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,040
Speaker 2: Well, Laura, let's dive into one of those things that

255
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,600
Speaker 2: you just hit on, which I love that you brought

256
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,920
Speaker 2: this up because Chris and I have friends, probably Chris

257
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,000
Speaker 2: for the past few years, and we have even more

258
00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,760
Speaker 2: friends now in that exact same boat out of something

259
00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,120
Speaker 2: people don't talk about that much, which is the kids

260
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,680
Speaker 2: are leaving and where does that leave us? And as

261
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,960
Speaker 2: someone who is having that experience in your personal life

262
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,520
Speaker 2: but also has seen so many divorces, I want you

263
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,920
Speaker 2: to answer this. I don't know if you will. What

264
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,640
Speaker 2: would you advise people, like, would you say, if you're

265
00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,000
Speaker 2: having problems, don't stay together? For the kids, like go

266
00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,559
Speaker 2: your separate ways sooner, or is it better stay together

267
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,920
Speaker 2: for the kids and then go your separate ways when

268
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:30,640
Speaker 2: they're in college.

269
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,480
Speaker 4: I think, I mean, I have to say, we really

270
00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,360
Speaker 4: really put a lot on kids. When I have two

271
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,400
Speaker 4: kids and they have two different dads, and I wasn't

272
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,520
Speaker 4: married to either of the dads. But my older son,

273
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,280
Speaker 4: who's now just finished his freshman year in college, is

274
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,920
Speaker 4: going to start his second year in college. His dad

275
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,080
Speaker 4: and I split up when he was two, and so

276
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,000
Speaker 4: when he started kindergarten at five, we were I think

277
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,240
Speaker 4: probably one of the only families that weren't living under

278
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,920
Speaker 4: the same roof. Okay, time he got to fourth grade,

279
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 4: it was like forty percent of the kids. And it

280
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,120
Speaker 4: was funny because the kids would always come talk to

281
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,400
Speaker 4: him and say, what's it going to be like when

282
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,600
Speaker 4: my dad moves out? And Luke would be like, dude,

283
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,600
Speaker 4: it's great. I got two iPads and sometimes I can

284
00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,400
Speaker 4: tell my mom that I'm allowed to stay up later

285
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,520
Speaker 4: at my dad's. And he said, and he would say,

286
00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,200
Speaker 4: it was this a little kid. He's like, they both

287
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,680
Speaker 4: love you and and it's just not that they just

288
00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,800
Speaker 4: don't want to live in the same house anymore, but

289
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,079
Speaker 4: then you get to go on two different trips at

290
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:27,839
Speaker 4: winter break.

291
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:29,160
Speaker 3: But it was really sweet.

292
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,800
Speaker 4: And the administration of the school is like whenever we

293
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,959
Speaker 4: have a kid that's parents are getting divorced, instead of

294
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,439
Speaker 4: sending them a school counselor we just.

295
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,920
Speaker 3: Have them going to the Yeah.

296
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,200
Speaker 4: But I think I think we underestimate, particularly today, and

297
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:45,240
Speaker 4: I may be speaking to like big metropolitan cities like

298
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,840
Speaker 4: Los Angeles, San Francisco, and New York. Maybe the stats

299
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:50,440
Speaker 4: are lower in other states.

300
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,360
Speaker 3: But first of all, kids.

301
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,439
Speaker 4: Are very, very malleable. They'll figure it out whatever. They

302
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,960
Speaker 4: basically just care about themselves and they need to know

303
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,240
Speaker 4: that their parents love them. So if we may get

304
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,600
Speaker 4: okay for them, it's going to be okay for them.

305
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,360
Speaker 4: And I think it's going to be more okay for

306
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,120
Speaker 4: them than if we're together and we're arguing or there's

307
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,480
Speaker 4: this resentment. I also think, and you touched on it,

308
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,559
Speaker 4: mental health therapy, communicating and continuing with that communication. I

309
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,679
Speaker 4: think it's really important if couples do it before they

310
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,120
Speaker 4: get married. And I'll give another plug two to a

311
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 4: company called Hello Prenup, which is doing what we do

312
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,280
Speaker 4: at divorce dot Com. With online prenups, whether you get

313
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,720
Speaker 4: or need a prenup, or not having the kind of difficult, unromantic,

314
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:36,560
Speaker 4: unsexy conversations about what your expectations are in your relationship,

315
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,240
Speaker 4: in your marriage, in your parent co parenting style is

316
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,800
Speaker 4: so important and I think if you do that throughout

317
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,440
Speaker 4: the marriage, you have a good chance of eighteen twenty

318
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,560
Speaker 4: years later when all the kids have left the nest,

319
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,600
Speaker 4: looking at that person going, remember we always said we

320
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,520
Speaker 4: wanted to do this or how about this? And again

321
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,080
Speaker 4: people go in different directions. I get it, maybe there's

322
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,720
Speaker 4: a work problem or maybe there's a health issue or whatever.

323
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,600
Speaker 4: But if you're kind of doing these constant check ins,

324
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,440
Speaker 4: and you're doing them also when things are good in therapy,

325
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,160
Speaker 4: like you don't have to go to therapy when there's

326
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 4: an issue. If you're doing and when things are good,

327
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 4: then you develop the tools to be able to communicate

328
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:12,360
Speaker 4: and deal with.

329
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,600
Speaker 3: Them better when things are not good, and then you

330
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:15,880
Speaker 3: can either work through it or go.

331
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 4: You know what, I love you, I will see you

332
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,080
Speaker 4: next Thanksgiving, because well, I'm sure we're going to do

333
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:20,680
Speaker 4: it all together.

334
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,640
Speaker 3: But I'm out. I can't do this anymore.

335
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,480
Speaker 4: I want to go travel the world, or I want

336
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,560
Speaker 4: to take you know, I don't know architecture lessons if

337
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,240
Speaker 4: they have such a thing. You know, just I want

338
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 4: to do my thing, and you're kind of entrenched in

339
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,640
Speaker 4: your thing here, and we're going to go our separate ways.

340
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,160
Speaker 3: But we love each other and we're still a family.

341
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,280
Speaker 1: You know. It's like this with many forms of law,

342
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:55,760
Speaker 1: but I would think particularly divorce, you as a lawyer

343
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,680
Speaker 1: become much more of it. Also a therapist, a friend

344
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,320
Speaker 1: of person to lean on, because I find that when

345
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 1: people are going through divorce, they also want to talk

346
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,880
Speaker 1: and they want to be heard. And so how do

347
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,920
Speaker 1: you weigh that of being Okay, I am here to

348
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,640
Speaker 1: help you legally, but at the same time, you're asking

349
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,000
Speaker 1: me a lot of personal questions, and you know, things

350
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,120
Speaker 1: get vindictive of you screw him or screw her. I

351
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,560
Speaker 1: want the dog and the cat. You know, how do

352
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,480
Speaker 1: you help navigate the emotional side of this?

353
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,080
Speaker 4: We basically tell them like, this is a business transaction, okay,

354
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,119
Speaker 4: and I'm not your friend, and I think you should definitely,

355
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,400
Speaker 4: you know, rebond and reach out and have a support group,

356
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,200
Speaker 4: whether that's family members or girlfriends that you or book

357
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,080
Speaker 4: club people that you can go have a glass of

358
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,000
Speaker 4: startin day with and talk to It's.

359
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 3: More than women, but the men too. They have a

360
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:43,640
Speaker 3: different way.

361
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,480
Speaker 4: Of communicating that they want to discuss things and sometimes

362
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,600
Speaker 4: they're not comfortable. They don't have a support group, they

363
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,200
Speaker 4: don't have a bunch of friends. But I think it's

364
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,000
Speaker 4: very important as a professional to say, especially at my

365
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,880
Speaker 4: hourly rates, I'm not qualified to talk to you about

366
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,560
Speaker 4: like your feelings, you know or you know, I just

367
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,800
Speaker 4: you don't want to pay me. As I said, I

368
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,280
Speaker 4: was married once, very briefly in the nineties. I've got

369
00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,600
Speaker 4: two kids from two different guys. I'm a hot mess.

370
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,359
Speaker 4: You think I want to be giving you therapey to

371
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,399
Speaker 4: get so we try to really and you know, we

372
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,119
Speaker 4: have a lot of young attorneys at the firm that

373
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:16,720
Speaker 4: I'm trying to teach how to do it. And I say, look,

374
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,800
Speaker 4: you're not their friend. You don't want to build them,

375
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,360
Speaker 4: you don't want to talk to them about this kind

376
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,639
Speaker 4: of stuff. But you also do want to be compassionate.

377
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,719
Speaker 4: You want to share things with them, and it will

378
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,000
Speaker 4: also give you an insight into how the case is

379
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,240
Speaker 4: going to go. Also, quite frankly, it's why I continue

380
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,840
Speaker 4: to do this, this fascinating study in human nature and

381
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,480
Speaker 4: people's stories and how it works. That's what keeps me going.

382
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,000
Speaker 4: It's amazing to hear people's stories from all different walks

383
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 4: of life and ages and cyc economics and all that.

384
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,439
Speaker 2: Looking at all the cases you've seen, what are ways

385
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,080
Speaker 2: to prevent divorce? If any? What do you look at

386
00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,439
Speaker 2: them and think, as your lawyer therapist self, Here's what

387
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,440
Speaker 2: I wish this couple would have done. Here's what maybe

388
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:57,320
Speaker 2: would have made it work.

389
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,679
Speaker 4: I think communication, I think community, and I think a

390
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,280
Speaker 4: sense of partnership. Another thing that we see, of course,

391
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,359
Speaker 4: big factor is financial money, and what we see also

392
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:13,040
Speaker 4: less now, but certainly this is a constant women kind

393
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:18,960
Speaker 4: of abdicating their financial responsibility. I have smart, sophisticated, cool

394
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,879
Speaker 4: women coming in here that say, I'm so embarrassed. I

395
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,159
Speaker 4: have no idea what we have, what we earn. You know,

396
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,240
Speaker 4: in California it's community property. So for twenty years, my

397
00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,520
Speaker 4: husband's been the breadwinner. I don't know what he makes.

398
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,359
Speaker 4: I signed the taxi turns, but I don't know, and

399
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,240
Speaker 4: I feel like an idiot. I don't even have credit

400
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,160
Speaker 4: cards that are just my name, but they're his account.

401
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,160
Speaker 4: That happens a lot, and when I speak with young women,

402
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,919
Speaker 4: I'm like, don't do that. Go once a quarter to

403
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,439
Speaker 4: the business manager. You know, the woman that sneak the

404
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 4: shopping bags in before he gets home from work.

405
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,800
Speaker 3: That's fine if that's what you need to do, but.

406
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,960
Speaker 4: You need to be a partner because if you're not

407
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,800
Speaker 4: experiencing the ups and downs, he doesn't have the same

408
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,400
Speaker 4: level of partner respect for you and you. Also, you're

409
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,480
Speaker 4: not really in it together. And I would say the

410
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,359
Speaker 4: same thing about kids. Both of you should have a

411
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,920
Speaker 4: hand in raising kids. And you know that expression in

412
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,960
Speaker 4: Laurenen life gets in the way. I think that's probably

413
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 4: what happened to this couple you're talking about, and it's

414
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,240
Speaker 4: probably way easier said than done. But if you don't

415
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,640
Speaker 4: want to end up twenty years hence going who even

416
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:17,000
Speaker 4: are you?

417
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:17,359
Speaker 3: Like?

418
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,200
Speaker 4: Right, have those check ins they have parts and each

419
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,640
Speaker 4: I'm sure there's therapists that would say have a date night,

420
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,440
Speaker 4: ea tweak, make sure you keep the sex a life.

421
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,840
Speaker 4: I don't know that stuff sounds good, but to me,

422
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:34,080
Speaker 4: that level of communication and not delegating responsibilities to one

423
00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 4: person only, I think is important because I think you

424
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 4: want to have some skin in the game in the

425
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 4: things that you would otherwise think would just be his.

426
00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 3: Or her, her or her whatever responsibility.

427
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,280
Speaker 1: Because it helps too with the we always think of

428
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,240
Speaker 1: the bad, but it helps with knowing the stresses as well,

429
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 1: Like if if you're the only person that's financially literate,

430
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,639
Speaker 1: you're the only one that's feeling the pain of the

431
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,400
Speaker 1: bills of everything going on. And same thing with kids,

432
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 1: if you're not deal with the kids day to day

433
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 1: like she is or like he is. Again, you got

434
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:05,400
Speaker 1: to share in all of it, the good, the bad,

435
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 1: the ugly, and that just helps you become closer.

436
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 2: Well, you're living in two different worlds if you're not.

437
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 2: I'm not saying you know you both have to take

438
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,960
Speaker 2: on all responsibility for everything, but I think that awareness helps,

439
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 2: Like my parents were always really just aware of what

440
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,120
Speaker 2: the other was doing. On that note, Laura, I wanted

441
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 2: to ask you, and I'm sure people ask you this

442
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,359
Speaker 2: all the time, but I saw and I won't be

443
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 2: able to remember who it was, but a divorce attorney

444
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,120
Speaker 2: on TikTok a few months ago, and she said, I'm

445
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,840
Speaker 2: going to ask the question that i'm or I'm going

446
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 2: to answer the question I'm afraid to answer. People always

447
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 2: ask me what is the number one reason people get divorced?

448
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 2: And she said, the reason I'm afraid to answer it

449
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 2: is because my answer is the number one reason is

450
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 2: when there's a stay at home mom and a dad

451
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 2: at work because they're living these two different lives. Do

452
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 2: you agree with that? And then of course I'm going

453
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 2: to ask you what your number one reason is.

454
00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 3: I don't agree with that.

455
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 4: I think that's a pretty broad generalization, and I think

456
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,919
Speaker 4: that there are plenty of stay at home parents and

457
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 4: working parents that can make it work. I think the

458
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 4: main reason is a lack of communication. I think if

459
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 4: you're not communicating and checking in, regardless of what the

460
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 4: financial disparities are, I think that that's going to be

461
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 4: a problem, and that will then lead to affairs or addictions,

462
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 4: all those other things that go. Oh, the main reason

463
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,239
Speaker 4: is adultery, or the main reason is it's not. It

464
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 4: leads to these resentments because you're not getting things out

465
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 4: and talking them through, and if he's not getting it,

466
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:36,879
Speaker 4: you know, at home, then he's going to get it

467
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 4: somewhere else.

468
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 3: You have all these people that have what do they called.

469
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,640
Speaker 4: Platonic You know work relationships, but they're emailing all day long.

470
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 4: Do a co worker that they've got this relationship with

471
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 4: and I have spouses going, why does he want to

472
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 4: be communicating with her and not me? Well, that's just

473
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 4: what he's gotten used to. So I think it's a

474
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 4: failure to communicate. Like cool hand, Luke, what we got

475
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 4: here is what we have here.

476
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 1: Is a failure to communicate. To help us start this

477
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,360
Speaker 1: process if we are struggling with this, even if we're

478
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 1: just trying to, you know, dip our toe in the

479
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 1: pool and figure out about divorce and maybe a way

480
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,959
Speaker 1: out for a man or woman. Give us the steps

481
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 1: and the test.

482
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 2: For most people, it's the first time. So what's the

483
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,879
Speaker 2: first thing you do if you want to because.

484
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: Big it's a big scary thing, you know, like, oh

485
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,159
Speaker 1: my god, my entire life and my house and my

486
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 1: everything just being ripped apart. So can you kind of

487
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: slowly and I hate to say, let's piece this together

488
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 1: for people to make it easy, but that's really what

489
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: I want to do.

490
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 4: So what I would do first? And by the way,

491
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 4: it's interesting that you said it's the first time. Did

492
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 4: you know that the divorce rate for second marriages is

493
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 4: much higher than the divorce rate for first marriages, and

494
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 4: for even righer. It's kind of like bungee jumping, like

495
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 4: if you've done it once, all right, it just why not?

496
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 2: It feels easier.

497
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 1: We've almost made it a full year.

498
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 2: Laura, what's the number one reason for divorce in second marriages?

499
00:22:58,280 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 3: Because it's easy to get divorced.

500
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: I don't read a second time.

501
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 4: I don't know those stats. I just know that, like,

502
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 4: for whatever reason, that leap is not as difficult. The

503
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 4: first thing I would do one hundred percent is educate yourself.

504
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,199
Speaker 4: And now we can do that so much more easily

505
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 4: than we could fifty years ago. You'd actually have to

506
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 4: sneak in and make it an appointment with a divorce

507
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 4: attorney or whatever.

508
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 3: You don't really have to do that. Now. You can

509
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 3: go online.

510
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 4: You can go online in your state to the state

511
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 4: bar website, find out what the law is. Do you live

512
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 4: in a community property state or an equitable distribution state?

513
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 4: Start kind of educating yourself about divorce and what it

514
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,919
Speaker 4: might look like for you. And we have tools on

515
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 4: divorce dot com, but there's also a ton of other

516
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 4: informational websites where you can get divorced. Just type in

517
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 4: divorce near me or divorce in California or wherever you are.

518
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 4: So that's one thing I would really that kind of

519
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 4: knowledge is power, and if you're feeling more powerful about

520
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 4: it was another reason why we loved the idea of

521
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,439
Speaker 4: online divorce. If you're giving people the ability to do

522
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 4: it themselves, then that carries over into their next chapter,

523
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 4: which is being the master of your own If you're

524
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 4: completely leaving it to a lawyer, you never quite know

525
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 4: exactly what happened. So I would educate, educate, educate. The

526
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 4: other thing you need to kind of educate and get

527
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 4: up to speed about. And this is what I would

528
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 4: say is step two taking kids out of the equation

529
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 4: for a minute. The four corners of divorce are going

530
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 4: to be what you have and what you owe. Okay,

531
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 4: so your your house, and then the mortgage on your house,

532
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 4: your car, and then and then what you earn and

533
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 4: what you spend.

534
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 3: So those are the four corners.

535
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 4: And here in California, we've got what's called a declaration

536
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 4: of disclosure that has a schedule of assets and debts,

537
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 4: which is what you have and what you owe, and

538
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 4: then an income and expense schedule, what you earn, and

539
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 4: what you spend.

540
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 3: Those four things are very important to know.

541
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 4: And even if you are the breadwinner, often you're not

542
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 4: the person that knows that information. So you've got to

543
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 4: kind of get deep in knowing that because that's going

544
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 4: to help you figure out what it costs you to live,

545
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 4: what you're each going to end up with, how it

546
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 4: ends up, what kind of support will be.

547
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,360
Speaker 3: Paid to you or be paid by you.

548
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 4: Those are the things that you should be thinking about

549
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 4: as you're educating yourself of how to apply your situation

550
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 4: to the actual law. And then I would go either

551
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 4: on a website or see if you can get a

552
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 4: consultation with an attorney. Most attorneys will have the first

553
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 4: consultation for free because they kind of they want to

554
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 4: want to sign you.

555
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 3: So you have a meeting with a lawyer.

556
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 4: You may want to meet with a couple and see

557
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 4: which of them has like the best kind of you know,

558
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,239
Speaker 4: vibe with you, and somebody that you feel that's going

559
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 4: to listen to you and see how it works. It's

560
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 4: interesting since COVID, we don't have as many people like

561
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 4: coming into the office for that first meeting because now

562
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 4: you can do it via zoom or whatever. So, but

563
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 4: I I think if I were going through it, I

564
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 4: probably want to have a face to face with somebody,

565
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 4: especially if you're charging me over.

566
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: A thousand dollars an hour. But that's not obviously, And

567
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 3: then I would I mean, I don't know where in

568
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 3: this the the idea of.

569
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 4: Your spouse fits in, but I would definitely, I think

570
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 4: have even if you are not, you know, couples counseling.

571
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 4: I would see if there was somebody that either the

572
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 4: lawyer or a family member somebody can recommend to go

573
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 4: sit and have a session, not for the purpose of

574
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 4: getting back together, but for the purpose of figuring how

575
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 4: to separate. What are the boundaries? This isn't legal stuff.

576
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 4: This is more like are we dating people? Is this

577
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 4: a separation or is this more like really just taking

578
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 4: a break?

579
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 3: What's happening? When do we tell them? Yeah?

580
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 4: And I think a third party can be very helpful,

581
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 4: even if it's just a crash deaf dummy in the room,

582
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 4: having someone else there is kind of it keeps a copasetic.

583
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 4: Those would be the first three steps that I would say.

584
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 2: That was incredibly helpful. What about biggest mistakes people make?

585
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 2: To avoid. What are the pitfalls you see people go

586
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 2: into over and over again.

587
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 4: Before you send a text or an email, give it

588
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 4: a minute. I think people send so many things to

589
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 4: their exes or about to be x's that then come

590
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 4: back and bite them.

591
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 3: Think about it.

592
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 4: I mean, remember, this is a person, like your lawyers are,

593
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 4: You're never going to see them again, Okay. This is

594
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 4: a person that, particularly if you have kids, you're gonna

595
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 4: know for the rest of your life. And as angry

596
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 4: as you might be at them at the moment, things

597
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 4: that you say will have an impact and they won't

598
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 4: let you forget them if they're ugly, and they may

599
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 4: be used in court too, if it's something like I'm

600
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 4: going to kill you all of a sudden, You've got

601
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 4: a domestic violence restraining order against you because you made

602
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 4: a threat. So I really like way to be Try

603
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 4: not to say things. Remember that this person a at one

604
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 4: point you loved them, You had sex with them, you like,

605
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 4: held their hand and slept with them in bed. See

606
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 4: if you can get back to that, and if that

607
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 4: really is just too painful, really do think about the fact, partrickularly,

608
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 4: if you've got kids, that this is someone they're not

609
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 4: going away going to It's not It's like no other

610
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 4: kind of lawsuit, a fender bender, a landlord tenant, a

611
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 4: slip and fall. You're never gonna see those people again.

612
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 4: This person is going to be in your life. Keep

613
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 4: that in mind. Not keeping that in mind, I would say,

614
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 4: is the biggest mistake.

615
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: Everything canon will be used against you in the court.

616
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 3: Along.

617
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: We all put a lot in writing very quickly and

618
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 2: easily these days. And on that note, Laura, earlier you'd

619
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: mentioned no fault states, So correct me on how I

620
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 2: might be interpreting that. Do you think no fault divorce

621
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: is a good thing? Yes, okay, just makes it easier,

622
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 2: takes all the drama out of it, takes.

623
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 3: All the drama.

624
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 4: I mean remember back in like whatever it was, the

625
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 4: forties or fifties, people were like slamming into hotel rooms

626
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 4: with the flash photography and people were holding like think

627
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 4: how with photoshop these days you could just create evidence

628
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 4: this something happening. I also, and I didn't realize this

629
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 4: until recently when I started seeing stuff coming up about

630
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 4: how states were going to try to.

631
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 3: Reverse no fault divorce.

632
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 4: I guess it's very very bad for women because if

633
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 4: women are trying to extricate themselves from a relationship, and

634
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 4: they have to prove some kind of fault. It's more

635
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 4: difficult for them to get out other than just saying

636
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 4: irreconcilable differences. Being a child of the seventies, eighties and

637
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 4: the lawyer of the nineties and two thousands, that didn't

638
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 4: occur to me. But apparently that's a very big ticket

639
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 4: item that we have to think of about as women

640
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 4: and as a society that may have you know, what's

641
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 4: happening right now with reproductive rights and all that no

642
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 4: fault divorce going away would not be a good thing

643
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 4: for women's rights at all.

644
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: Such a good point, and what you just mentioned, I

645
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 2: hadn't even considered that that as we move into the

646
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: age of AI, people could start fabricating things and then

647
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: you've got to analyze everything. Are you seeing that start

648
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 2: to happen already?

649
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 4: No, I'm not saying that we will be one of

650
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 4: the last ones to switch over.

651
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: California's not go anywhere.

652
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 4: But again, like New York was one of the last

653
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,959
Speaker 4: states to switch to fault divorce. So even when I

654
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 4: was practicing, I would still see like if I had

655
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 4: you know, colleagues. In New York, you would still see

656
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 4: declarations written by clients just like the list of horribles

657
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 4: that their spouse did to them. Our judges would always

658
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 4: be like, Okay, I get it, he's a bad guy.

659
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: I don't need to hear mar getting divorced for a reason.

660
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the judge is exhausted listening to all the

661
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 2: things that we think are so important. No, no, no,

662
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: But on page seventy two, look at what he said

663
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: to me sixty years ago. Do you what trends have

664
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: you seen over the years? I mean, you grew up

665
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: with your dad as a divorce attorney, and then now

666
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: you've been doing it, as you said, for decades, and

667
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: we've seen social media come up in the last fifteen years.

668
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 2: What kind of big trends have you seen, good or bad?

669
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: Especially with the rise of technology and how rapidly it's

670
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: moved over the past fifteen years.

671
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 4: We're I mean, I think the biggest trend and the

672
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 4: best trend is just the use of resolution oriented tools,

673
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 4: whether it's mediation. There's something called collaborative divorce. We have

674
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 4: a lot of retired judicial officers who are now working

675
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 4: as mediators, and I think people really do, even if

676
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 4: they're not doing it by themselves online, they really do

677
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 4: want to have some kind of presence in the resolution

678
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 4: process rather than just leaving it all to two lawyers

679
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 4: who are going to work it out, and even worse,

680
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 4: leaving it to a judge who doesn't know you, doesn't

681
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 4: know your kids. It's going to make decisions that made

682
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 4: not necessarily be.

683
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 3: Cool with you.

684
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 4: So if you guys can do it even better, and

685
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 4: now we see that you can do it remotely, we

686
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 4: do zoom mediations. I think that's been one of the

687
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 4: biggest and again California is at the forefront of that,

688
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 4: but most states are really leaning towards that because everybody

689
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 4: realizes that that's a.

690
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 3: Better way to go.

691
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 2: Just a few more questions for you, Laurel. Though I

692
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: could talk to you forever again, I feel so indebted

693
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 2: to you having helped me handle my divorce.

694
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: I know I feel this like kinship between.

695
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 2: But you know, as I mentioned, so, your father was

696
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: a divorce attorney, You then become a divorce attorney. And

697
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 2: now you said, I think you were married briefly at

698
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 2: one point. How has all of this work in divorce

699
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: since your childhood affected your own perspective on relationships and marriage.

700
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 3: I mean, it certainly hasn't made me.

701
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 4: People are like, oh, you'd never get married, and I

702
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 4: wouldn't get married, but for very different reasons. I don't

703
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 4: frown on marriage. I love a good wedding. I actually

704
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 4: am able to you know, I officiate. I'm officiating a

705
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 4: wedding in October. Like I love it. I love love.

706
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 4: I think it's great. I just would love people to

707
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 4: be a little bit more cognizant of the contract nature

708
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 4: of what they're doing when they're getting married. And as

709
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 4: for relationships, like I said, I don't I'm not jaded

710
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 4: by what I do. People say, well, you're divorce lawyer.

711
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 4: I'm not any more jaded than anybody else that lives

712
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 4: in this society and sees what goes down. I mean

713
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 4: I have to watch TV for twenty hours and be like,

714
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 4: oh my god, possibly do is in fact, because I

715
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 4: actually see the good in people and why things happen,

716
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 4: it may make me even less jaded. I just think

717
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 4: it's fascinating to watch people and how and they give

718
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 4: and take in relationships. Every relationship is a contract, and

719
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 4: every relationship has certain terms and things that are non negotiable,

720
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 4: and I think if you're able to be really clear

721
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 4: about that, then your relationship.

722
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 3: Will likely last longer and be more fruitful for each

723
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 3: of you.

724
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 4: And I don't mean, I don't just mean in terms

725
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 4: of romantic relationships.

726
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 3: I think friendships.

727
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 4: I think business partnerships, and I think that's really important

728
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 4: to really be able to see the other person's perspective

729
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 4: and then communicate about it and say, well, is that

730
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 4: what you meant? So, I mean it's affected me as

731
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 4: a parent and.

732
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 3: How I raise my kids.

733
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 4: It's affected me as a partner with the others in

734
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 4: my law firm, as my father's daughter, all of those things,

735
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,719
Speaker 4: and I think it's actually been helpful. I mean, you know,

736
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 4: it helps me kind of sort things through and process

737
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 4: them as I'm doing, as I'm going about my daily business.

738
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 2: Well, you just said something we always say, which is

739
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: we love love. And I absolutely love the idea of

740
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,719
Speaker 2: you officiating a wedding, Like who gets to say that?

741
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: Now my divorce attorney to officiate.

742
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: This is the if you go to divorce dot com,

743
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: that is the platinum level. She will do the wedding,

744
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: but they also be there for you throughout theatry.

745
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: So your new wedding. She will officiate, Yes, that was

746
00:33:58,720 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 2: the diamond package.

747
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: She's also just taking down evidence as she's going yeah.

748
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 2: And she'll record the wedding in case this one goes poorly.

749
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 4: Actually, there's been a few people that I've set up

750
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 4: clients that have gotten divorced, and then the two people

751
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 4: that were my clients, I haven't done it, but they've

752
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 4: both called and said, do you know this person who

753
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 4: heard you represented that.

754
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: I'm like yeah. They're like, I want to go out

755
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 3: with them? What do you think? I'm like, yeah, I

756
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 3: think that'd be good.

757
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 2: And now America, wellzing matchmaker, it's literally a lifelong love afterdivorce.

758
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: Dot com is the new website.

759
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 2: Well but you know, but I'm sure you've seen the

760
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: super toxic cases as well. When you're in those really

761
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: tough situations. Is there are there any things that you

762
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: say to pull people out of like, you know, say

763
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: they just won't even speak to each other. What do

764
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: you do in those moments? And are things ever so

765
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: toxic that you drop a client?

766
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 4: Yes, things can be so that when clients have lost

767
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 4: the ability to be reasonable and I can't pull them

768
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 4: out of it, That's what I might say, I think

769
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 4: we're going to part way. If somebody says, well, I'm

770
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 4: the mom and I should have the kids one hundred

771
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 4: percent of the time and you can see them on weekends,

772
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 4: I'm like, that's really not how it works. So if

773
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 4: that's the kind of mindset, we will part ways. There

774
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 4: will be somebody else that will probably do their bidding.

775
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 4: I don't think they'll be successful, but they'll tell them

776
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 4: what they want to hear. And remember, in the entertainment industry,

777
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,439
Speaker 4: there's plenty of people that just want to be told.

778
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 3: They're used to being told what they want to hear.

779
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 4: Sometimes those people will come back and be like, I

780
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 4: wish I would have listened to you, because you were

781
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 4: giving it to me straight and I didn't want to

782
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 4: hear that.

783
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: At that point, you have represented countless a list celebrities,

784
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to ask you anything specific about

785
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: them because I know you won't say anything anyway.

786
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: Attorney claimp Yes.

787
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: But my question is, what would because there's this insatiable appetite,

788
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: especially when there's the divorce, the celebrity divorce, what is

789
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: the thing that would surprise us about in talking in

790
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: general broadstrokes here about the celebrity as they go through

791
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: their divorce. Is it just the they are just like us,

792
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: they are lonely, they're scared. What is it that would surprise.

793
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 4: I don't know if it would surprise you guys, but

794
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 4: it surprises a lot of people when I say exactly

795
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 4: that they're just like us, they're scared. They it may

796
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 4: be the difference between like, Oh, who's going to go

797
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 4: to the firm holiday party with me? And who's going

798
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 4: to walk the red carpet with me at the Oscars?

799
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 4: What will they say? People talk about me? What is

800
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 4: my How does my pr person get involved in this

801
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 4: and spin it so that I don't look like an apple?

802
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 3: But really it is the same.

803
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 4: They are, they are scared, they're it's sad, it's a

804
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 4: sad time. They want to they don't know what is

805
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 4: on the other side. And then add into it this

806
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 4: whole element of public perception and shodden for it.

807
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 3: A lot of people want.

808
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 4: To see famous people fail because it makes them feel

809
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 4: better about themselves.

810
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: Nothing better than helping people rise up and then watching

811
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: them fall and crushing.

812
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 4: Them exactly, I think, But I really, and for the

813
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 4: most part, I really do think that you know, It's

814
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 4: just it may be a different number of zeros on

815
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 4: that income and expense declaration, but it is the same

816
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 4: where am I still going to be able to fly

817
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 4: private versus am I scared take the bus to work?

818
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 3: You know?

819
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: It's just yeah, but there is that added layer. And

820
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: I know people are like, oh, they asked for it,

821
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: but I remember, even on a much smaller scale, when

822
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: I went through it, you know, having it splashed on

823
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: the late night shows and on the tabloids, and you're

824
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,439
Speaker 1: dealing with something that's horrible anyway, and you're just trying

825
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: to protect your kids and your family and do what's right,

826
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: and then you're also dealing with the larger picture. And

827
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: so there is that added layer, whether you like.

828
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 3: It or not.

829
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 4: And what I think I've seen in the entertainment industry

830
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 4: is with that added layer, it does it has begun

831
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 4: to promote better behavior because people don't want to be splashed,

832
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 4: So they will keep it quieter, they will keep it

833
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 4: more amicable.

834
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 3: They will do it.

835
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 4: By virtue of mediator so that it is more private,

836
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 4: so that it doesn't you know, show up in a

837
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 4: court pleating he did this, he did this, And they

838
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 4: will whether it's real or not, they will fake it

839
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 4: till they make it in terms of joint vacations and

840
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 4: joint birthday parties and whatever else. And what I have

841
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 4: found is a lot of those people go, yeah, I

842
00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 4: was kind of just going to the pumpkin patch for

843
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 4: the photo ops so I look like a good guy.

844
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 3: But it was.

845
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 4: Actually, we had a nice tame. We decided we're going

846
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 4: to do that for Thanksgiving. So again, fake it. And

847
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 4: then what happens is people who read the magazine that

848
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 4: see that divorced couple at the pumpkin patch with their

849
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 4: kid for the photo op, go oh, we can do that,

850
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 4: And again an evolution of divorced couples making it work

851
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 4: for their kids, for them, for the betterment of humanity.

852
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: Will Brad Pitt and Angelina Julie ever actually get divorced?

853
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Well do you represent either of them?

854
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 3: Laura, Oh, no comment.

855
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 2: No comment that that's I just it's I think they're

856
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: now getting divorced longer than they were married. That's got

857
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 2: to be one of the longer celebrity devorce.

858
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: I do always forget that they're still in the throes

859
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: of it when you hear it.

860
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 2: Well, Laura you may have just hit on it, but yeah,

861
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 2: one thing I wanted to ask you because I think

862
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 2: maybe everybody at home who's not famous but could use

863
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 2: the advice. Because look, when anybody gets divorced in their community,

864
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: it's a scandal, right, It's a topic, it's a talk

865
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 2: of the town, a gossipable moment. How do you advise

866
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: celebrity clients from the get go on how to handle

867
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 2: what is coming their way with the media firestorm, with

868
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 2: the headlines that are going to be splashed about their divorce.

869
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 4: Less is more, it's a news cycle. Let it cycle through.

870
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 4: The bigger you are, the longer it'll last. But if

871
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 4: you contribute to it, it will go longer, and it

872
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 4: will necessitate a response from the other side, and then

873
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 4: the other way and the other way. And I deal

874
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 4: with pr people all the time, and they know they

875
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 4: they'll say, I know what you're gonna say, but and

876
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 4: I say, don't respond, Just don't respond.

877
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: And it's easier said than done. I've given that advice

878
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: as well on other topics from like the hardest thing

879
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: in the world is to just keep your mouth shut,

880
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: not defend yourself. You want to scream from the rooftops,

881
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,919
Speaker 1: you're not a bad guy or girl or whatever. But yeah,

882
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: the best thing you can do is just not add

883
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: fuel to the fire.

884
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: Well, because what's hard is it becomes he said she said,

885
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 2: or he said he said, or whatever that you just

886
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 2: end up defending yourself being like no, no, no, they

887
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 2: were wrong, and then you look crazy. Yeah, Laura, I

888
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 2: tell us if you can. I'm just curious because Chris

889
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 2: and I we've talked a lot about how, you know,

890
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 2: we people who have We know people who have gotten

891
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 2: way too caught up in all that he said, she said,

892
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: and then they end up spending a lot of money

893
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 2: on their divorce. What do you think is the most

894
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 2: amount of money a person's ever spent on a divorce

895
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 2: that you know of?

896
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 4: Oh my god, you mean just on the fees, not

897
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 4: their assets.

898
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 3: We just finished a case.

899
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 4: I gave the closing in on July fifteenth, and it

900
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 4: had been going on.

901
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 3: The trial itself had.

902
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 4: Been going on since January, on and off, you know,

903
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 4: a couple of days a month. The case started, I

904
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 4: think four and a half years ago, and I believe

905
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 4: that our client, and I'm pretty sure his wife paid more.

906
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 4: But our client's already en curd fees over five million dollars.

907
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: Can you imagine, let's just round it up to say

908
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: twelve million total in that family that went to Boom Gone.

909
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 4: So, and just what that money could have been spent

910
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 4: on for, you know, research or whatever.

911
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 3: It really is.

912
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 4: It's terrible. It shouldn't go that way. Nothing should ever

913
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 4: take that long. I assure you we tried as hard

914
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 4: as we could on many occasions to get it resolved.

915
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 4: My hope is that when the judge gives her decision,

916
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 4: there will be somewhat of a lawback from the other

917
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 4: party as to why it costs that much. But yeah,

918
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 4: I mean I don't and I'm sure that wasn't the

919
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 4: most expensive one. These were not the wealthiest people we've represented.

920
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 4: This was not the longest litigation we ever did. That's

921
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 4: just an example of how crazy it can get.

922
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 2: Well, Laura, I want to end on because I love you.

923
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: Know you're so refreshing in your approach to everything. But

924
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 2: you do have this reputation of being like the go

925
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: to person in Hollywood. I mean, I look for entertainment. Tonight,

926
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 2: I went to the La County Courthouse and covered various cases,

927
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 2: and your name always comes up as one of the

928
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 2: most incredible divorce attorneys in existence. So what do you

929
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 2: think that is about you? Like, what makes you the

930
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 2: go to person for people? What do you bring to

931
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 2: the table, Because maybe your answer could help people at

932
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 2: home know what to look for as they're finding a

933
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 2: divorce attorney.

934
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 3: I don't know.

935
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 4: I think part of it has to do and this

936
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 4: won't help anybody at home. I think part of that

937
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 4: whole thing has to do with the fact that I'm

938
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 4: generally been pretty tight lipped about cases, and of course

939
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 4: that just makes people want more. I'm never somebody that's

940
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 4: going to stand in front of the courthouse and have

941
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 4: a press conference even if our client asks us to.

942
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 4: Our firm policy is we do not discuss any of

943
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 4: our cases.

944
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 3: You have other people that can do that.

945
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 4: But I also think, I mean, I would like to

946
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 4: think that the reason that I'm the go to, especially

947
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 4: for a lot of their high net worth or celebrity people,

948
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 4: is because either they or their professionals, their reps, their agents,

949
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 4: their business managers, their entertainment attorneys know that I kind

950
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 4: of come from a place of problem solving and reason

951
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 4: and it's never my desire to kind of churn a

952
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 4: case or make it go on for a long time

953
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 4: because I have terrible add I just want to get

954
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 4: onto the next Let's get it ris. That's what I

955
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 4: always tell our younger attorneys. We have to move through this,

956
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 4: be reasonable. And so I think I am a voice

957
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 4: of reason, and I think if you are at home

958
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 4: and you're thinking about it, you really have to approach

959
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 4: your divorce as two parts, like really bifurcated. There is

960
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 4: a business decision that needs to be made about how

961
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 4: to handle your assets and your finances, and then there

962
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,439
Speaker 4: is clearly an emotional part of it. And you should

963
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 4: be able to deal with the emotional part with therapy

964
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 4: and counseling and support, and you'll go through all the

965
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 4: grieving of the relationship and all that. But if you

966
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 4: can not have those things commingled, you will come out better.

967
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: I'll answer that question now. Just in the forty minutes

968
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: we've been talking your humanity, your kind, you're thoughtful. It's

969
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: I think when people go into this, and again we've

970
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: talked a lot about this, and this is my takeaway

971
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: after this conversation. People want, you said community a lot.

972
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: People just don't want to feel alone. And when you're

973
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: going through something so scary like this, having your website,

974
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: having an attorney like yourself, Laura Wasser, or somebody who

975
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: you can find that has a little humanity that reaches

976
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 1: out to you and you know that they're kind. That helps.

977
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: That makes a huge difference. And so like, you know,

978
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: I would never describe you, and I'm sure you can

979
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: be don't get and I don't want to get on

980
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: the wrong side of you, but you know, I would

981
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: never describe you. This woman's a pit bull. You know,

982
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: she's like she's going to kill or be killed, and

983
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: she's going in guns blazing. I find that you have

984
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: this empathy about the divorce and about the whole process

985
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: that really lends itself to your humanity, and so I

986
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: appreciate that it really came out in your conversation today.

987
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: So thank you so much.

988
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 2: She's incredibly stylish, stunning, stunning, very well dressed, gorgeous hair,

989
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: great smile.

990
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding.

991
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: I didn't want to say anything in front of my wife,

992
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,479
Speaker 1: but I was thinking that the entire time.

993
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,760
Speaker 2: Listen, if you're going to be talking to someone for hours,

994
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: it's wonderful to speak to someone who's beautiful.

995
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: And by the way, talking to an talking to a

996
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: divorce attorney in the entire time. There's a piece of art,

997
00:44:58,080 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: and I know we're on a podcast. There's a piece

998
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: of art over Laura's head that says the end.

999
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 2: Laura, what is that?

1000
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: That is such a great piece of art to have

1001
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: in your office?

1002
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 4: I thought it was really ironic and I love it.

1003
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,919
Speaker 1: It is incredibly ironic. Or maybe just say I.

1004
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 4: Love his stuff and he has a lot of like

1005
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 4: great freezing on things.

1006
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 3: But I really thought that was the most appropriate for mine.

1007
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's ironic or just poignant.

1008
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: Do we need to add one that says the beginning?

1009
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, a smaller one. Laura, thank you so much

1010
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 1: for your time, your knowledge, your expertise, and your humanity.

1011
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: Truly appreciate it. You take care.

1012
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. Bye bye, Laura.

1013
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most

1014
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a

1015
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you

1016
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: next time.