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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A seventeen year old girl

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Speaker 1: goes missing and now the bizarre facts that unfold. Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. Take a listen to the day

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Speaker 1: that Leslie pantalion disappears. Leslie Luna Pantalion's family reports her

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Speaker 1: missing just hours after she's last seen. Her mother, Victoria Pantalion,

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Speaker 1: calls Montgomery, Alabama police and an alert is issued. The

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Speaker 1: seventeen year old girl was last seen by her family

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Speaker 1: members as she left home in her mother's two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six blue Chevrolet Trailblazer. She does not return home.

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Speaker 1: The Montgomery Alabama Police Department's missing person's alert describes Leslie

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Speaker 1: Luna pantally on as having a scar on the left

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Speaker 1: side of her face, wearing a black shirt black pants. Guys,

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Speaker 1: you were just listening to Dave Mack at Crime online

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Speaker 1: dot Com. Again, thank you for being with us here

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Speaker 1: at Crime Stories. A young girl goes missing in an

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Speaker 1: all out search ensues with me an all star panel

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Speaker 1: to break it down and put it back together again.

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Speaker 1: First of all, renowned New York defense attorney who practices

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Speaker 1: all over in multiple jurisdictions, but is joining us today

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Speaker 1: from New York, Jason Oceans. Doctor Bethany Marshall, Psychoanalyst to

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Speaker 1: the Stars, joining me out of Beverly Hills and you

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Speaker 1: can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Professor Forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, an author of Blood Beneath My Feet

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Speaker 1: on Amazon. New star of a new hit series on

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Speaker 1: the True Crime Network, Poisonous Liaisons. Sierra Gillespie Crime online

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Speaker 1: dot com investigative reporter and her partner in crime Literally,

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Speaker 1: Lee Eaga, an investigative reporter with Crime Online. First to you,

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Speaker 1: Lee Egan, what can you tell me about Leslie Pantaleon

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Speaker 1: just seventeen years old? Just turned seventeen, But I swear

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Speaker 1: lye that she looks to me like she's fourteen. Yes,

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Speaker 1: she does. She looks a lot younger than her age.

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Speaker 1: Where she's wrong, We'll start with that, Okay. She is

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Speaker 1: from Montgomery, Alabama, and she was reported missing on June

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Speaker 1: twenty fourth, hearing. I know that, I know when she

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Speaker 1: was reported missing. I know the parents reporter her missing.

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Speaker 1: But I want to know who she is because don't

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Speaker 1: you agree to Joe Scott Morgan. You're a professor forensics.

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Speaker 1: If you want to find someone and you find out

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Speaker 1: what happened to them, you have to know them first.

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Speaker 1: For instance, if Jack you went missing, I first say, well,

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Speaker 1: she's here, bright and early every day to the studio.

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Speaker 1: She gets things going, she this, she that, she what

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Speaker 1: would I say? She loves to eat out. I know

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Speaker 1: her favorite restaurants. I know what she does. She's got

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Speaker 1: a bum knee, so she's not out jogging. I can

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Speaker 1: tell you that much. She was not abducted while she

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Speaker 1: was out jogging one of those push up broad jogging outfits.

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Speaker 1: That's not gonna happen. So when you know somebody, jose Scott,

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Speaker 1: you're you're better equipped to figure out where they are

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Speaker 1: and what happened to them. Yes, it's a proverbial string.

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Speaker 1: You pull on the sweater, the whole thing will come unraveled, hopefully.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know what that just meant. What I

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Speaker 1: mean I want to know, is a seventeen year old

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Speaker 1: girl just turning seventeen just disappear, Yeah, off the face

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Speaker 1: of the planet. And you know, you do have to

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Speaker 1: know her habits, who she hanging out with, who's in

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Speaker 1: her tight little circle. Most people do have a tight

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Speaker 1: little circle of people that they stay in contact with

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Speaker 1: and of course we first have to start with appearance.

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Speaker 1: But you know, a big, big thing with kids nowadays

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Speaker 1: and always and has been for the past several years,

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Speaker 1: the social media. What's she posting? Who's she hanging out with?

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Speaker 1: What time are these post? Tom stamp, that's a big clue,

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Speaker 1: Jason Oshans, how old is your daughter? She'll be Nancy,

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Speaker 1: She'll be nineteen and that so she's If I were

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Speaker 1: I would hold on to eighteen. So, Jason, have you

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Speaker 1: ever looked at her cell phone? I rely on I

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Speaker 1: rely on my wife Alice to take care of old.

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Speaker 1: She looks on my cell phone right aft. I hope

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Speaker 1: you have life three sixty. I love life three sixty

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Speaker 1: because I can get a general idea of where everybody is.

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Speaker 1: The other day, I thought David was at a workout gym.

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Speaker 1: I nearly passed out and called a divorce lawyer, but

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Speaker 1: it turned out he was in the parking lot trying

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Speaker 1: to make a call in front of the gym. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I'm just Jason, wouldn't you agree with the teen girl?

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Speaker 1: You know you can find out so much by just

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Speaker 1: looking at their phone, No doubt about that. And I

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Speaker 1: will say to privacy. That it's you know, as they

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Speaker 1: get older, they're you know, become more and more independent.

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Speaker 1: You know, twins at thirteen and they're still twelve till

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Speaker 1: at nineteen, still twelve a change as well that those

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Speaker 1: teen years are coming. And I'm not asking you about

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Speaker 1: their independence. I know they think they're independent and you

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Speaker 1: have to play along with it. Talking about a missing girl, Jason,

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Speaker 1: When I'm talking about a missing girl, independence and privacy, schmivacy,

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Speaker 1: I don't care. I want to find her. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the reality is doctor Bethany Marshall. I don't really know

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Speaker 1: what's wrong when Joe Scott Morgan and Jason oceans right now,

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Speaker 1: But doctor Bethany Marshall, a teen girl lives and dies

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Speaker 1: on her cell phone. She breathes her cell phone. If

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Speaker 1: you want to know where she is, find out who

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Speaker 1: she's talking to. Like Joe Scott Morgan started to say,

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Speaker 1: that's their life, Nancy exactly. And in my practice, I'm

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Speaker 1: always talking with parents about the difference between privacy and secrecy.

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Speaker 1: Secrecy is when your teen has a whole double life

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Speaker 1: that they know you wouldn't approve of, and so they

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Speaker 1: hide it from you, like maybe a predator is communicating

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Speaker 1: with them where they're involved in some sort of drug activity.

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Speaker 1: Privacy is when they're developing their own sense of self

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Speaker 1: independent from the parents, and that line between the two

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Speaker 1: is so confusing. But let's think about this. This young girl, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: she only weighs ninety pounds. She's so beautiful. The picture

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at, she's wearing a little gray like almost

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Speaker 1: like a ski cap and like a flannel shirt. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she's darling, She's innocent. The parents lend her their car,

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Speaker 1: so there's this sense disillusion of the connection between the

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Speaker 1: parents and the child, and the child being in the

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Speaker 1: parents car, and the only way they can really search

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Speaker 1: for where she is is through her social media. So

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Speaker 1: if I was a parent, I'd be all over the

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Speaker 1: social media and also the aspect of the vehicle. Sarah Gillespie,

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Speaker 1: I think, well doctor Bethany said is correct. Then the

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Speaker 1: parents say the last time they saw her, she was

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Speaker 1: borrowing them off two thousand and six blue Chevy trail

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Speaker 1: block in two thousand and six. The vehicles have a

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Speaker 1: navigation system in them, that's a great question. I don't

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Speaker 1: think they did. So we know this is in Montgomery,

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Speaker 1: the capital of Alabama, and we know that there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that live there. So is she

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Speaker 1: living in a suburb? Is she downtown in a high rise?

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Speaker 1: Where did the family live? No, So she's actually in Montgomery, Alabama,

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Speaker 1: like Propper Montgomery. So that is a very bustling area,

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Speaker 1: lots of people. And the last place that her parents

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Speaker 1: reported seeing her with Perry Streets, which is somewhat residential area,

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Speaker 1: So she's not a residential area. And her in her

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Speaker 1: mom's car and she was wearing a black shirt and

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Speaker 1: black pants. Now I know she has a scar, which

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Speaker 1: is definitely something someone would remember if her hair was

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Speaker 1: pulled back. She's got long, dark hair and it comes

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Speaker 1: down the side. I can't see how she's got it

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Speaker 1: on top because she's wearing that little gray hat that

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall's talking about. She looks like she got diamond

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Speaker 1: studs in her ears and big, big, beautiful smile. So

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Speaker 1: what happens to this girl? Where does she go? For

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Speaker 1: anybody that has information? Three three four two one five

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Speaker 1: stop three three four two one five seven eight six

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Speaker 1: seven The investigation the Search for this girl kicks off

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about Leslie

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Speaker 1: Pantalion just turned seventeen, Montgomery, Alabama. The search is all

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Speaker 1: out and then we learn this. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: Jordan L. STUNSFA twelve tonight. We're following breaking news. A

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Speaker 1: death investigation is underway after a body was found in

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Speaker 1: a creek on the west side of Montgomery. According to

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Speaker 1: Montgomery Police, that body was recovered from Katoma Creek in

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Speaker 1: the area of Old Selma Road Bridge and just off

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Speaker 1: the West Boulevard. It's also about a mile and a

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Speaker 1: half north of the Montgomery Regional Airport. New video tonight

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Speaker 1: shows a large police presence of and first responders in

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Speaker 1: the area. Police tell us they got a tip from

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Speaker 1: someone in that area about a possible body in the water.

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Speaker 1: Montgomery Fire and Rescue was called in to assist eventually

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Speaker 1: recovering that person. However, not much elus is known right

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Speaker 1: now in PDCs. This is currently being treated as a

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Speaker 1: death investigation. Right now, we don't know the name or

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Speaker 1: gender of this person, and police are in the process

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Speaker 1: of figuring out what happened. That feeling that must have

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Speaker 1: come over her family while she's missing, and then suddenly

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Speaker 1: a body is found in a creek. A body is

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Speaker 1: found in a creek. Why and of course the family

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Speaker 1: is wondering is this her probably trying desperately to get

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Speaker 1: through to police to find out what they can take

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Speaker 1: a listen to Peter Albreak WKRG. Police and Montgomery are

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Speaker 1: investigating the death of a seventeen year old girl. Leslie

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Speaker 1: Luna Pantalion, was last seen June twenty fourth. Her body

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Speaker 1: was found Saturday in a creek north of Montgomery's airport,

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Speaker 1: and today an autopsy confirmed her identity. Lisa had tip

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Speaker 1: led them to the body. The body is confirmed to

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Speaker 1: be that of the seventeen year old little girl, Leslie Pantalion.

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Speaker 1: To Sierra Gillespie Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, Sierra,

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Speaker 1: what do we know about the discovery of her body?

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Speaker 1: Was it a jogger who called in that her body

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Speaker 1: was there? Or do we know? Nancy, We don't know

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Speaker 1: for sure who called in. We just know that police

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Speaker 1: in the area received a tip, so they're likely trying

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Speaker 1: to product the identity of this person who sent in

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Speaker 1: this tip. Are they still sticking without Lee Egan that

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Speaker 1: it was Lee Egan joining me from crime online dot Com.

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Speaker 1: Are they still sticking with the story that it was

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Speaker 1: an anonymous tip I mean, don't police. I've call a ID.

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Speaker 1: They are still saying that it was a tipster. They're

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Speaker 1: not giving out the name of who it was, so

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Speaker 1: they're going to be anonymous at this time. So that

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Speaker 1: tells me a lot, right they're Jason Oceans. It tells

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Speaker 1: me it's somebody that's afraid to have their name attached

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Speaker 1: to this case. And that means it's someone that knows

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Speaker 1: what's going on, because you know, if I see a

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Speaker 1: car wreck, I call nine one one and have if

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Speaker 1: the police aren't already there, I don't care if they

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Speaker 1: have my phone number in my name. So why would

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Speaker 1: this person one remain anonymous when they find a dead

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Speaker 1: body face down in a creek? Jason Oceans, Well, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: you've answered the question and inaccurately. When you have nothing

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Speaker 1: to hide, the information is free flowing. You want to

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Speaker 1: be tagged for that? Yeah, sure, I saw that. Here's

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Speaker 1: my name and number, But you want to be anonymous

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Speaker 1: in that instance because clearly you know a lot more

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Speaker 1: of the backstory. It's not actually what happened straight out

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Speaker 1: to death. Investigator or professor of forensics Joseph Scott Morgan

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, what do we know about the cause of

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Speaker 1: death and how will being submerged in water effect the determination. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up to submerged her body being submerged.

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned, she was faced down, so you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the first things that we would look for

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Speaker 1: is to see if she was drowned. Of course the

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Speaker 1: stabs of the clothing. But going to the specific cause

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Speaker 1: of death, girl was beaten to death, Nancy and stabbed.

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Speaker 1: This is a very intimate, intimate event. It indicates a

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Speaker 1: lot of rage. She was literally ripped apart and then

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Speaker 1: placed in this discarded in this area. And lots of

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Speaker 1: times when you see bodies that are in creeks, one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons they wind up there is because many

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Speaker 1: times the creeks are in kind of a depressed area.

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Speaker 1: It it gives kind of a hidden space where you

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Speaker 1: can place the body and people are not going to

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Speaker 1: think that the body is going to show up. The

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Speaker 1: problem is, though, is that the body is completely exposed

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Speaker 1: if you just stand up on the bank and you

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Speaker 1: see this. We also know Joe Scott that it was

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Speaker 1: near an airport according to Sierra Gillespie, which tells me

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Speaker 1: it could have been very likely an industrial area. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know this is another interesting piece to this nancy.

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Speaker 1: Around these and so called industrial areas, you have a

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Speaker 1: lot of truckers that come through this area. You have

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Speaker 1: a lot of a transient population that might walk around

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Speaker 1: this area. So one of the things you might think

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Speaker 1: is that, well, is this just somebody that just randomly

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Speaker 1: picked her out of a crowd or saw her stranded

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Speaker 1: on the side of the road. Remember she was in

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Speaker 1: her parents' car, or maybe they just saw her a

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Speaker 1: burger joint or something. You know, she's seventeen years old,

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Speaker 1: she's out, she's getting some food, and then they kidnap

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Speaker 1: her and bring her to this area and do some

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Speaker 1: horrible things to her. Obviously, so you know, she's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily in a highly congested neighborhood at this moment. Tom

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Speaker 1: she's discarded. It also gives us an indication that whoever

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Speaker 1: put her body there at a knowledge of the area.

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, what about the fact? Well, correct me if

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong, Lee, Again, I don't have any evidence that

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Speaker 1: there was any sex assault or robbery. They never mentioned

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Speaker 1: anything about a sex assault possible robbery. Yeah, where's the

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Speaker 1: car where's the mom's card? Was that recovered? Lee? Yes?

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Speaker 1: It was. So maybe she was carjacked, but you don't

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Speaker 1: have to kill her and throw her down a creek

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Speaker 1: for a carjack. Typically with a carjack, you shoot the

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Speaker 1: person or you throw them out of the car and

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Speaker 1: take the car and leave. Very rarely would you find

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Speaker 1: a carjacker killing the person then dragging their body and

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Speaker 1: throwing them in a krig and taking off in the car.

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Speaker 1: That's the whole point of a cart jack. You do

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Speaker 1: it in a hurry and you get away with the vehicle. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the death of a beautiful young girl

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Speaker 1: just turn seventeen. What more do we know about her body?

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Speaker 1: To you, Jessica Morgan, you said she was beaten horribly.

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Speaker 1: Is there a way for medical examiners to look at

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Speaker 1: the beating marks on the body and determine what type

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Speaker 1: of instrument was used to beat the victims? Such as

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Speaker 1: a baseball bat, such as a pole, such as anything

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Speaker 1: that could leave a mark. They could then be mashed

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Speaker 1: up to the instrument. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. When you have

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Speaker 1: an instrument like you know, the example I like to

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Speaker 1: use is a threaded pipe because most people can understand,

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Speaker 1: you know the area where the threads are on the

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Speaker 1: end of the pipe. If you strike somebody with this

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Speaker 1: very heavy object, it's going to leave an imprint of

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Speaker 1: those threads behind on the surf of the skin. Remember,

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Speaker 1: the skin is very elastic, it's very immaleable, and so

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Speaker 1: not only will you have a bruised area, you'll also

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Speaker 1: have an abraided area, like an abrasion like a scrape knee,

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Speaker 1: but only you'll have a specific pattern. So when you

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Speaker 1: begin to talk about like baseball bats, yeah, they will

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Speaker 1: leave a specific mark. You'll have literally what we refer

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Speaker 1: to as delineated areas. That means there is a mark

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Speaker 1: of delineation where you see all the little margins around

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Speaker 1: the edge. So you can kind of approximate the size

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Speaker 1: of the instrument that may have been used, such as

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Speaker 1: the barrel of a baseball bat, the barrel of a gun,

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Speaker 1: or maybe just a pull. You just never know, but

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Speaker 1: you can get it within the ballpark. Can you imagine

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Speaker 1: what the parents went through waiting and hoping that their

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Speaker 1: daughter would be found seventeen year old Leslie Pantalion. I

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Speaker 1: want to learn from the news their daughter's body is

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Speaker 1: found face down in a creek near the airport. We

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Speaker 1: believe in an industrial area. Her the car, her mother's

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Speaker 1: car gone, her cell phone gone, No sex attack, So

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Speaker 1: why did this little girl have to die? Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, we are talking about the death and

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Speaker 1: the disappearance. I'm a seventeen year old girl friend Montgomery, Alabama,

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Speaker 1: Leslie Pantalion. What happened? Take a listen to our Dave

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Speaker 1: Mack at crime online dot com. At the home, Leslie

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Speaker 1: Pantalion got into a physical altercation with Taisha Wisenut. Afterwards, Pantalion,

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Speaker 1: Wisenutt to Nya Meryweather, Aaron Taylor, and an unnamed juvenile

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Speaker 1: boy got into Pantalion's Trailblaze or with Taylor driving. We

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Speaker 1: don't know yet if Pantalion went willingly or if she

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Speaker 1: was forced. She is reportedly in the backseat with Wisenutt

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Speaker 1: and another fight breaks out. Taylor pulled the car over

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Speaker 1: in a wooded area, where Pantalion was beaten with a

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Speaker 1: metal poll from a gate and stabbed with a pocket knife.

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Speaker 1: The four, leaving Pantalion in the wooded area, get back

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Speaker 1: into the Trailblazer and returned to Weisenut's home. Okay to

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Speaker 1: you lay again crime online dot com. These are three

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Speaker 1: sixteen year old girls. What happened, Yes, three sixteen year

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Speaker 1: old girls, and allegedly, from what an attorney said at

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Speaker 1: a preliminary hearing last week, is that supposedly someone stole

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Speaker 1: a gun from the victim and then someone told the

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Speaker 1: victim that the gun was over at Wisnot's house. So

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Speaker 1: Pantalion goes over there, looked for the gun, and at

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Speaker 1: some point an argument breaks out, and then that's when

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Speaker 1: they all end up in the trailblazer going towards the wood. So.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this was the family gun that

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Speaker 1: Leslie had, but it goes missing. Then she gets wind

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Speaker 1: that these three teen girls, who I assume she knew,

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Speaker 1: stole it because she knows where they live. She goes

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Speaker 1: over there asked them where's the gun. The next thing

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Speaker 1: you know, they lure her back in the car. Is

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Speaker 1: this her mother's car? Yes, So they get her back

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Speaker 1: in the car, these three girls, teen girls, sixteen years old,

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Speaker 1: drive her out to the woods. I know she's not

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Speaker 1: driving her mother's car. That tells me she didn't want

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Speaker 1: to get in the car. She should be driving her

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Speaker 1: mother's car, not them get her in the woods and

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Speaker 1: what ensues in the woods lee. Once they got in

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Speaker 1: the woods, one of the suspects found a metal pull

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Speaker 1: from a sense excuse me, and they proceed to beat

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Speaker 1: her so badly that her there was bones crushed all

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Speaker 1: in her face. A cause of death couldn't even be

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Speaker 1: determined because she was so badly beaten. They couldn't tell

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Speaker 1: if she was dead before they threw her in a river,

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Speaker 1: which they did later, or after. I just I don't

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Speaker 1: understand it. To doctor Bessey Marshall, you're the psychoanalyst, how

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Speaker 1: contain girls? They so evil? Nancy? I would wonder if

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Speaker 1: there was a ringleader like there seemed to be three

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Speaker 1: teen girls, and from the reports I read, there was

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Speaker 1: one girl who was more aggressive and leading the others. Now,

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Speaker 1: what's unusual about this? In all the cases we've covered

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Speaker 1: over the years, usually it's boys traveling in a packs

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Speaker 1: and being very aggressive, and it's a sociopathic male leader

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Speaker 1: who recruits vulnerable younger boys to aggress against a victim

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Speaker 1: along with him. But in this case it's girls. These

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Speaker 1: are outliers. This is not just you know Lohan and

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Speaker 1: mean girls a movie. This is murderous homicidal instincts with

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Speaker 1: three young women against a ninety pound beautiful little girls

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Speaker 1: made her so badly the bones in her face are

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Speaker 1: all broken. They can't even tell the cause of death.

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Speaker 1: Plus you have her face down in a creep for

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Speaker 1: a period of time before she's found over what listen

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Speaker 1: to Dave Matt crime online dot com. After being beaten

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Speaker 1: and stabbed, Leslie Pantalion is left in the wooded area.

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Speaker 1: The suspects drive back to Wisenha's home, where they wake

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Speaker 1: up another girl and confess to the crime. The girl

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Speaker 1: is taken to see the body. When they arrive, Pantalion

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Speaker 1: is still alive. Her feet can be seen moving. Why

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Speaker 1: isn't it allegedly tells the other suspects that she quote

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Speaker 1: needed to be taken care of unquote. Pantalion and the

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Speaker 1: pole used to beat her are loaded into the back

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Speaker 1: of the Trailblazer and driven to a creek, where the

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Speaker 1: seventeen year old and the pole were tossed in the water.

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Speaker 1: Whisna says it looked like Pantalion was trying to swim.

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Speaker 1: Sierra Gillespie, let me understand, after this severe beating, they

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Speaker 1: take they go get another girl. The girl comes and

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Speaker 1: looks at the body and then who I guess is

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Speaker 1: the quote ring leader, as doctor Bethany Marshall describes them,

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Speaker 1: that would be Taisha wisn't it says she's got to

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Speaker 1: be taken care of, which means gotten rid of. They

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Speaker 1: then throw her into the creek and she's still alive, Sierra,

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Speaker 1: She's trying to swim, Nancy. I think what the most

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Speaker 1: important takeaway from this is they left the crime scene,

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Speaker 1: went and confessed to another girl, then immediately came back

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Speaker 1: to the crime scene and this girl, Pantalion, they can

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Speaker 1: see her feet and her toes moving. They left her

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Speaker 1: for dead, but she was still fighting. So that's when

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Speaker 1: what you're saying, the so called ringleader, Wisenutt said, we

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Speaker 1: got to take care of her. Less than a mile away,

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Speaker 1: went over to a creek and that's where they threw

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Speaker 1: her body in. But she was fighting and trying to

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Speaker 1: get out, and she died right there. The cold blood

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Speaker 1: running through those girls veins and again over what listen

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Speaker 1: to Dave Matt. Seventeen year old Leslie Pantalion's disappearance reportedly

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Speaker 1: began with a gun that went missing in the spring

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Speaker 1: on June twenty fourth, she was given the address of

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Speaker 1: a person suspected to have it. Pantalion wanted it back.

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Speaker 1: Taisha Wisenutt lived at the address, although police say it's

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Speaker 1: believed that someone else took the gun. Detectives say they

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Speaker 1: believe that person was Aaron Taylor's cousin. Taylor and wise enough,

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Speaker 1: we're friends, so they all know each other. And somehow

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Speaker 1: Leslie Pantaleon gets the address of this the Devil's minions

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Speaker 1: and goes over I've been told it was a family gun,

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Speaker 1: and she knew she had to get it back. Goes

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Speaker 1: over there and she ends up dead. I mean Jason

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Speaker 1: Ocean's New York defense attorney. Under the US Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: ruling no one under eighteen can be put to death,

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Speaker 1: but the aggravating circumstances here are outrageous. They see her,

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Speaker 1: She's been beaten horribly, her face literally crushed in. This

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Speaker 1: little girl and these sixteen year old devils look down

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Speaker 1: at her and they realize she's still alive, so they

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Speaker 1: submerge her in a creek, where the poor thing tries

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Speaker 1: to swim for her life and dies. That's some cold

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Speaker 1: blood Jason Oceans and Nancy There there's no doubt about that,

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Speaker 1: you know. So that's what you've got to say. You're

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Speaker 1: the defense lawyer. There's no doubt about it. Yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: no doubt about it, because we've got to say listened

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Speaker 1: most of the time at that point to defense attorneys.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're trying to separate, you know, ring lead

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Speaker 1: around from whom and see if there's cooperation, and maybe

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Speaker 1: you're looking at you know, removing death penalty or a

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Speaker 1: fixed sentence of you know, twenty five or thirty years.

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Speaker 1: You're trying to bargain away years for time and cooperation

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Speaker 1: and seeing if you know the authorities or even need

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Speaker 1: your help at all. So you're in a day, don't

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Speaker 1: need any help. You know, there are forensics out the yingang.

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Speaker 1: They don't need any one of these girls to blab.

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Speaker 1: And Jason Nations, I hope you're sitting down operation cooperation Black,

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Speaker 1: don't need it, don't need it. I want them all

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Speaker 1: to get life. But I hope you're sitting down. You

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Speaker 1: may need to lay down for this. At the end,

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Speaker 1: the girl, the victim, Leslie, was saying please, She was begging,

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Speaker 1: please just take me home. You can have my truck,

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Speaker 1: just take me home. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Such

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Speaker 1: a gruesome beating of a teen girl, ninety pounds, wet, soaking, wet,

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Speaker 1: precious trying to go back and retrieve what we've been

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Speaker 1: told was a family that was stolen. She needs she

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Speaker 1: had to get that gun back. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: her parents were going to find out that it was gone,

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Speaker 1: but it was gone. So she goes to the address.

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Speaker 1: So she's been told, hasn't the gun. She gets there

426
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 1: and these three teen girls unleash the gates of hell

427
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: on this little girl, I mean, doctor Bethany. The little

428
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: girl was begging, look, you can take my mom's car,

429
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: you can have it, just take me home. But they

430
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: took her out into the woods and beat her so

431
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: badly that Emmy can't even tell the cause of death. Nancy,

432
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: their house still been something building up between these three

433
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: female perpetrators and the victim. Why are you trying to

434
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: make it more complicated than it is? So what if

435
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: they didn't like each other? So what if once they're

436
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: a spitball in the eighth grade, who cares? They bade

437
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: her to a pulp, They beat those delicate bones, and

438
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: they crush her teeth so badly. The Ammy couldn't tell

439
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: the cause of death bathany who cares what happened in

440
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: the fifth grade. I mean, I think you're right. I

441
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: mean I've been listening to the panel and trying to

442
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: figure out what to say about three murderous teenage girls.

443
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: The lack of empathy even you with with Lucy and

444
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: John David. From the time they're little, you teach them

445
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: to share their toys and to have empathy with other kids.

446
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: Blinding the parents are where this is going? No, no,

447
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm just seeing this flies in the face of everything

448
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: we know about socializing our children and teaching them to

449
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: be kind and to have empathy. This is the polar

450
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: opposite where this is senseless, murderous rage. As a psychoanalyst,

451
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: I even hate to analyze this because it seems so

452
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: trite in the face of what happened. But they must

453
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: have envied her at some level. She's beautiful, she's lovely.

454
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: She had a family who cared, a family who who

455
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: gave her their vehicle. She was concerned about what the

456
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: parents thought about the gun that went missing. You know,

457
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: she was on a mission for her family, not to

458
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: get a gun, but to retrieve something that was maybe

459
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: a part of the memorabilia in the family and they

460
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: smashed her skull in. Maybe she had something they didn't have.

461
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: Maybe she had a better life, maybe she was more beautiful.

462
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: Behind every mean girl is envy, and this envy turned

463
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: into murderous rage. That's interesting that you said that behind

464
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: every main girl is in me to Lie Egan, Crime

465
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: Online dot Com investigative reporter, what do we know? Why

466
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: didn't they have to kill the girl? Well, Ncy, they

467
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: are not really telling us that they have admitted that

468
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: the teens have admitted to their parts in it, but

469
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: they're pointing a singer at one another. Was an aunt

470
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: as that the other team did most of the beating,

471
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: while another team says she did. They also stabber, didn't

472
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: they lay? Yes, someone stabbed her in there pointing the

473
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: finger at each other. Nobody will take responsibility for the

474
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: brutal I mean, they all say, oh, I pushed her

475
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: and then she did this, but the other person did this,

476
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: so they're not really owning up to what really happened.

477
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: This little girl survived a metal pole beating, so her

478
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: team girl attack hers, dump her in a creek to drown.

479
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: I mean, that's it. In a nutshell, that's an opening

480
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: statement and a closing statement right there. They dump in

481
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: a creek to drown. I don't I find it hard

482
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: to believe, Sierra, it is all this over a lost

483
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: family gun Nancy. From what it sounds like, I don't

484
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: know if it could be. I mean, in order to

485
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: beat someone in this way, see that they're still alive

486
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: when you come back, and then just go of them again,

487
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: there has to be something even bigger building up here.

488
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: But something I also want to point out as well

489
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: about these girls when they came back to the crime

490
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: scene and threw Leslie Pantalion into the creek. After that,

491
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: they went to McDonald to go get smoothie. You really

492
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: know how to turn the nie, don't you, Sierra Gillespie.

493
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: So after they brutally murder the little girl, they go

494
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: out for smoothies to celebrate. Take a Listen to Dave

495
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: Matt Crime online dot Com. During a combined preliminary hearing

496
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: for tonight, I'm Meriweather, Aaron Taylor, and Taisha Wisenut, all

497
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: sixteen years old. Detective Ashley Brown testifies that Leslie Pantalion

498
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: cell phone records helped link her killers to the crime.

499
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: Brown testified that during interviews with the three suspects, the

500
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: teens admitted to some things, in part corroborating details each

501
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: other said, but denied claims made by each other. Each

502
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: of the girls claimed little to no involvement in the

503
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: physical altercations with Pantalion. Taylor said Wisenut hit the victim

504
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: with the pole, while and That claims it was Taylor

505
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: that hit Pantaleon. According to the other girls, Merriweather helped

506
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: move the victim to the back of the vehicle before

507
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: she was dumped in the water. One fact that is known.

508
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: After dumping Pantaleon in the river, the group went to

509
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: McDonald's and bought smoothies at about six am. All right, Jason,

510
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: otions there you go. What's going to be the defense.

511
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: It's murdering and bating the girl breaking every bone in

512
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,719
Speaker 1: her face with a metal rod certainly did not affect

513
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: their appetite. Jason, No, it clearly didn't then. And as

514
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: I reference before, sometimes the facts and circumstances leave you

515
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: as defense counsel. But with the realities of life when

516
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: many years in prison or the death penalty on the table.

517
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: But as for as for this defense counsel, you know

518
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: you're you're not playing with creating magic out of something.

519
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: What are you saying? I don't even know what you're saying.

520
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: They're just people. If it doesn't even make sense, I'm

521
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: telling you they go out to celebrate with smoothies. I

522
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: understand that you're asking in defense council. I'm not gonna

523
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do as facts? I'm not arguing

524
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: the facts away nor create Man if I were a

525
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: defense or iveragh, thank god I never have or will be.

526
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: I trying to get us suppressed. I don't can't think

527
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: of a reason to suppress it other than it's after

528
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: the fact. Of course, we know evidence before jury Anne

529
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: after the fact can come in and be admissible. Man.

530
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: I bet they've even gone him on video. Jason just

531
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: kick But I thank you. I don't think you have

532
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: much to do here. We really you're you're bargaining against

533
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: an actual trial, and you're going to try to separate

534
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: whatever you can to memory. You're dissecting evidence as it

535
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: might be, and create reasonable doubt. That's all that you

536
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: really can you have trying to get them to cooperate.

537
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: First sentence, I'd say it starts here and it ends

538
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: here where the killers sell labrate with McDonald's smoothies. You

539
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: know that's not the first time McDonald's celebration post massacre

540
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: has occurred. Take a listen to Dave Mack. When detectives

541
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: located the suspects, they were living in a family compound

542
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: of camper trailers not far from the murder scene. They

543
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: were living off the grid with no running water, no electricity,

544
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: using generators for power. T J. Wiggins and his girlfriend

545
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: live in one of the travel trailers. His brother had another.

546
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: With a search warrant, police found two SKS rifles, two

547
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: Mossberg shotguns, and ammunition for both in a gun safe

548
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: belonging to t. J. Wiggins. The ammunition found there, police say,

549
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: was the same ammunition fired from the gun and the

550
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: murders a Smith and Weston handgun. Tracing the suspects movement

551
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: after the killings, police say the three suspects drove to McDonald's,

552
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: ordered ten double cheeseburgers, two mc chicken sandwiches, and then

553
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: went home to eat. The next morning, Robert Wiggins took

554
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: the truck he was driving to a car wash to

555
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: get the road clay off. Did you hear that another

556
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: that was a triple masker after a fishing trip, and

557
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: those killers go out and celebrate with a dozen McDonald's

558
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: double cheese and two make chicken. You know what I'm

559
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: telling you that in detail, doctor Bethany Marshall, a dozen

560
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: double cheese and two make chickens, because they had to

561
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: really think that through. When they were going through the

562
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: drive through, they weren't thinking about the dead victims. They

563
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: were focused on what they were going to eat, just

564
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: like these ten girls were focused on which smoothie, strawberry

565
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: or blueberry. They didn't give a flying fig about the

566
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: dead girl. Actually, Nancy, from a forensic perspective and a

567
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: psychoanalytic perspective, we look at it differently. We think that

568
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: when there's a homicide, there's actually a relief phase that

569
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: occurs after the homicide with the perpetrators that lasts from

570
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: six to nine months, meaning they have such a severe

571
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: amount of hatred towards the victim that once the victim

572
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: is gone, they are dancing on the victim's grave. Look

573
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: at all the stories that you have discussed over the

574
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 1: years and what the perpetrators have done following let's say

575
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: a domestic homicide or a random shooting, it's not just

576
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: going to McDonald's. It's going out shopping. It's Casey Anthony

577
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: going and buying push up braws. It's dancing on a

578
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: stripper pole. It's Scott Peterson going and just dating and

579
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: dating and dating. It's all these perpetrators being so happy

580
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,760
Speaker 1: when the victim is gone, all their torturous thoughts about

581
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: the victim leading up, whether it's envy or you're going

582
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: to hurt me, or you're my child, I'm going to

583
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: have to support you and give you money for the

584
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: rest of your life, and hear what you have to

585
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: tell me about myself. All those horrible feelings that these

586
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: pathological perpetrators can outstand, they wipe them out in a

587
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: moment by killing the victim, and so they're so happy.

588
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: I guess that's why they go get the happy mail, right,

589
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: they're happy. You know. I've never thought about it like that,

590
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, and it's chilling to think about it the

591
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 1: way you just described it. But I'm afraid you're right.

592
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: We wait as just as unfolds Nancy Grace crumbs story

593
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: signing off Goodbye friend,