WEBVTT - Intel Gives Weak Forecast After Supply Shortages Hurt Sales 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:07.040 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.960 This is Bloomberg business Week, Daily reporting from the magazine 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:17.639 that helps global leaders stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:22.560 and trends shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.880 and tech news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:31.360 Daily Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:34.199 Yeah, I want to bring an Ivan fine Seth, research 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:36.960 director and chief investment officer at Tiger's Financial Partners. The 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.840 firm has more than five hundred million dollars under management. 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.960 Ivan has a by rating on the company's stock. Ivan 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:48.720 does just very like your immediate knee jerk reaction to this. 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:52.160 Does your rating? Well, I know you can't answer that question, 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:56.000 but your knee jerk reaction. I'm not gonna ask your 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.040 knee jerk reaction to the numbers here. You're shaking your head. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.120 It's not this quarter. It's not a quarterly story. It 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:06.080 is a major shift in the company. It's and they 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:10.200 have I think turned a major corner. But the stock 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.280 is also run up significantly from a lower twenty. It 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:15.959 hit fifty five dollars, so I think it may have 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:17.880 gotten a little bit ahead of itself and it may 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.040 pull back, but I think everything that's going on and 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.920 then the new CEO, lip Pretan is is as planned. 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.600 I mean, they are well positioned to benefit from AI 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:33.399 data center demand, AI computer demand, their partnership with Intel, 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.280 money from the US government, so they are plenty flush 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:40.920 to invest in all of their key growth initiatives. 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:47.559 So fundamentally, what's changed Ivan when it comes to this company? 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:51.080 You obviously sound really upbeat? Is it just a case 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:55.480 of having the backdrop because you know of the United 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:56.280 States government? 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.520 Is that what's done it? You know, kind of see 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:00.560 the ship everything. 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:05.480 Okay, it's the it's first of all, it's the it's 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.720 President Trump's push on what's sold here is made here, 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:15.760 investing in US semiconductor manufacturing capacity here, expanding the Intel 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:20.400 foundry business, as well as the growth of data centers, 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:25.560 the growth of AI enabled PCs. So they are positioned, 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:30.280 I think perfectly to benefit from what it was in 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:32.640 the early innings of it going to be a long 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.560 game of the AI driven growth in both the tech 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.160 sector and the US and the global economy. 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:44.239 So, okay, I just want to this is a different 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:47.639 company than it was six months ago as a result 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.440 as a result of the US investment. And I'm wondering 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.880 what that position, what that type of what that investment 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:57.800 does for Liputan's position. Like you know, when you're the 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.440 CEO of a company and you come out with a report, 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:05.560 you're you're obviously you got to worry about the board, 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.280 you got to worry about shareholders. Now he's got to 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:11.760 worry about a phone call from President Trump because the 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:14.600 President likes to talk about how well the stock has 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.760 done since the US made that investment. What does that 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:19.119 change the dynamic? 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:21.080 It doesn't. 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.400 But it's really funny that President Trump wanted to go 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:27.880 from deporting the guy to giving the guy money. 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.240 Hey, that's the power of a conversation, right, But. 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.840 It also shows but it also shows how quickly things 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.120 can change, certainly from the White House perspective. 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:44.840 Well, it highlights Trump's perspective on driving the US manufacturer 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:49.320 and infrastructure US leadership in all key areas, and semiconductors 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:53.119 is a very important area, especially that Intel makes semiconductors 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.680 for the defense industry. 0:03:55.680 --> 0:04:00.520 Interesting, Okay, so does it make the defense business stronger? 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:06.080 Absolutely? Hey, there's no better partner. One number one partner. 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:06.680 I don't. 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.560 Well, it could be a tie US government and Nvidia. 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.720 Okay, so let me go to the partners. Yeah, let 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.840 me let me ask this question a different way than Ivan. 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.720 And that's about where Intel would be right now. If 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.279 the US government had not made that investment. Would this 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:23.080 be a completely different picture? Would it have been a 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:23.960 completely different quarter? 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:25.800 Well? 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.040 Yeah, I think this has helped. 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:33.000 I think this removes concerns, balanceet concerns that moved and 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.279 allows the company and the CEO to focus on business. 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.080 A partnership with Nvidia is great, and partnership with the 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:44.239 USK it opens up doors. They're back working with Apple, 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.400 They're going to be working with everybody. And I think 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:51.200 you're going to see Intel as a major contender as 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:56.760 a semi conductor foundry semiconductor manufacturer to take on Taiwan Semiconductor. 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:01.160 So, okay, going back to Intel under sure in the aftermarket, 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.040 we continue to track the share price, I think down 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:06.400 about four or five percent as we speak. The forecast 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:10.640 for the first quarter top and bottom line disappointing. At 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.440 the same time, it's talking about the CEO saying demand 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.200 is quite strong, says the chip maker missed a lot 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:19.520 of opportunities, says production yields not up to his standards, 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.640 and then he goes on to say making our intel says, 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.839 the company making good progress in fourteen A production on 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:30.400 track for volume production in twenty twenty eight, has multiple 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:32.440 engineering engagements on fourteen A. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:34.359 Help me understand what that means. 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:38.240 These are different chips, the fourteen A, the eighteen A 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.600 that they and the announcements that they made earlier this 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:45.800 month at the CEES they got their latest semiconductors on 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:49.040 track to go into production to meet a huge demand 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:54.600 for all semiconductors is outstripping supply. There's in fact, concerns 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:58.960 of memory shortage and process or shortage. So they got 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.960 the demand wind. Is that is a tailwind, and they 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:07.320 are back to innovating and developing and you know, winning 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:13.880 customers and working with key you know computer manufacturers, Key Hyperscaler, 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:18.680 you know cloud service providers. And I think that they 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:22.280 got a tremendous tailwind. The stock ringing up a lot. 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.599 It went from twenty to fifty five. Even if it 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:26.920 pulls back to forty five, you know, it's a buying 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:31.240 opportunity because I think that long term they are going 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:33.640 to be back I mean, I don't think even be 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:35.960 back to their former glory. I think they are going 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:41.560 to be one of the world's leading semiconductor developers, designers, 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:42.760 and manufacturers. 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:46.800 So the Foundry Services division their factory unit revenue of 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:48.280 about four and a half billion. It was a gain 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:50.400 of about three point eight percent ivan from. 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:51.920 The year before. 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:56.320 It currently relies on almost exclusively, as you know, Intel 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.800 product divisions for orders. It's looking to expand beyond that. 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.440 Is that crucial for the company's future growth. 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:09.080 It's crucial, But that is the opportunity, okay, to work 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.680 with everybody, because you got to realize that most of 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:17.760 the other semiconductor companies, even in Vidia, Apple, all of 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.320 the companies like Google, Facebook, Amazon, that want their own 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:26.160 processors qualcom, they're all virtual manufacturer. They don't actually manufacture. 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.080 They outsourced to companies like todd One semi Conductor and 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.760 hopefully companies like Intel to manufacture their processors. 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:36.760 You know, is the US The US is, at least 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:38.960 from an investment protective, things have kind of quieted down 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.560 a little bit since the summer. But are there any 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:47.080 other companies, particularly companies within your universe that you follow 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.320 that could see in your view and investment by the 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:51.080 US government. 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.400 You know that I don't know. The other companies that 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:01.480 I like in the semiconductor sector are in Vidia and Quailcom. 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:03.800 And you know Invidia is pretty flush. 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:06.440 Yeah, they don't need so okay, they could they could 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.000 make an investment in the US government. 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:13.480 Yes, I really think it was great how it turned 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:18.400 around after the meeting with Trump and Tan that Grump 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:23.400 wrote a check. And and also we have a lot 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:30.000 of government incentives to build UH semiconductor manufacturing capacity here. Yeah, 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:36.640 we have projects in Arizona, projects in Ohio. So ideally 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:41.119 the US could be the semiconductor manufacturing capital for the world. 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.280 So in terms of going back to and you right, rightfully, so, 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:46.280 I even point out the run up that we've seen 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:50.559 in Ivan shairs and Intel shares. You know, the Information 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.360 put out a story and it says Intel's forward even 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:57.080 a multiple has lifted to twenty times highest level since 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.040 twenty twenty one, well above the twelve and a half 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:02.560 times at which TSMC currently trades. This is what I 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:04.720 was trying to get to before with our simulcast, I 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:06.760 was talking market caps, but it has to do with valuation. 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.320 Intel now pricier than TSMC. Does that make sense? 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.240 Well, I always say I wish we could solve the 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.360 mysteries of the stock market by dividing two numbers like 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:20.840 cash flow MO or even pe. Stocks go up for 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.800 everything that you really can't measure. And this is about 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.280 Intel's future. So we are going to see if all 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:30.880 goes well, a huge ramp up in revenue, in an 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:34.080 expansion in margin and increasing cash flow, and then an 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:39.040 increase in profitability. So I think their foundry business will 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:44.040 ramp up significantly, and as their new processors come to market, 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.600 revenue and cash flow and profitability will ramp up also 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:48.800 ramp up significantly. 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.000 Yeah, Li Bhutan saying, you know, Intel face is an 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.760 execution challenge. We are laser focused as a team to 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.640 improve that. To be candid, it's just our execution that 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.600 needs to improve. Ivan finds that great stuff as always 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.000 so appreciated. He's, of course, chief investment officer over at 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.280 Tiger's Financial Partners, joining us on Intel. 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.440 Stay with us more from Bloomberg Business Week Daily coming 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:11.440 up after this. 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:19.120 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast. Catch us 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.640 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:26.240 on Apple CarPlay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.960 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:34.520 The World Economic Forum in Davos. I heard of it, okay, 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.600 he's called it quote boring. He slammed the group as 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.680 a body that's increasingly becoming an unelected world government that 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:42.720 people never asked for and don't want. 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:44.760 So he's like, I'm never going to go to that thing. 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.640 That's ridiculous. Why, like, who would waste their time there? 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:49.880 He were talking about is Elon musk Coright? Those are 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.280 things that he said about the World Economic Forum in 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:54.480 the past. Yet today, for the first time we made 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:55.040 an appearance. 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:55.920 He showed up, didn't he? 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.120 He showed up, And do you think he was nice? 0:10:58.120 --> 0:10:58.400 On news? 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.760 Hey, it's Elon busy at the factory. But listen, I'd 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:02.480 like to come to David. 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:04.080 I don't know how it works. He was confirmed at 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.520 the last minute edition for a Thursday afternoon session. He 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.880 spoke to Blackrock CEO Larry Fink. Here's just part of 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:10.559 that conversation. 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:15.080 We do have some the Tel's Optimus robots doing simple 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:20.559 tasks in the factory, except probably. 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:20.960 Later this year. 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:22.920 By the end of this year, I think they will 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:30.240 be doing more complex tasks and still deployed in an 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:36.120 industrial environment, and probably sometime next year, I'd say that 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:41.720 by the end of next year, I think would be 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:47.520 selling humanoid robots to the public. That's when we are 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.840 confident that it's very higher liability, very high safety, and 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.400 the range of functionality is is also very high. You 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:57.200 can basically ask it to do anything you'd like. 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.160 You're already seeing that in Tesla car. Is this the 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:02.559 software changes that you're doing? 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:03.880 And what is it? Every quarter now? 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.920 A software change that upbrates the ability of the robot 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:08.600 within the car. 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.520 Yes, the tails A full self driving software we updated 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:19.160 sometimes once a week. And recently some of the insurance 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:22.880 companies have said that it is actually so safe. When 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:27.719 tells a full self driving so safe that, uh, they're 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:33.000 they're offering customers half price insurance if they if they 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:35.680 use tess a full self driving in the car and. 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:37.800 That could be monitored by the insurance company, can they 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:38.800 Is that part of the agreement? 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:49.120 Yeah? But I think self driving cars is essentially a 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:55.120 solved problem at this point, right, And Tesla's rolled out, 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.040 uh sort of robot taxi service in a few cities, 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:03.200 and well, I be very very widespread by the end 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.320 of this year within the US, and then we hope 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:11.400 to get supervisor for self driving approval in Europe hopefully 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:17.360 next month quickly, yeah, and then maybe a similar time 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:18.960 timing for China hopefully. 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:20.160 Well. 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:22.760 There you have it. That was Elon Musk along with 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.960 Larry Fink, the CEO of Black Rock. For more on 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.320 that appearance at Davos, we're joined by Max Chafkin. He's 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:30.440 Bloomberg Business Week senior reporter. He's co host of the 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.320 Everybody's Business podcast. He's also the author of the contrarian 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.840 Peter Teel and Silicon Valley's Pursuit of Power. He joins 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.440 us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. A lot 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.440 of a lot of timelines laid out just in that 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:43.800 two and a half minutes, and that was just part 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.760 of what he said today. Uh, I know you're excited, 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.200 Carol for the Optimist robots to be sold at the 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:50.280 next year because. 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:52.440 That room for one at my own. 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.160 They don't need a better method about just got to 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.000 plug him in right, charge them. They just do the dishes. 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.439 Is that a real sick thing? Based on your observations 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.560 of Tesla and where they are right now with these 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:05.400 optimist robots. 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.320 I don't think it's a realistic thing for any humanoid robot, 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:10.880 whether it's Elon Musk's humanoid. 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:11.080 Robots or not. 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.360 I mean, there are prototypes of these things, but of 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.960 course it's a big jump from going from a prototype 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:21.560 to putting these in environments where unpredictable things have happened. 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.160 That's the reason why Elon Musk, for you know, ten 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.120 years or so, has been saying self driving cars are 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.760 going to happen next year and we're still not quite 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:35.480 there yet. There was a demo today in Austin, another demo, 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.280 but again, these are very controlled. We're not seeing the 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:44.360 kind of mass you know, mass market adoption, unsupervised kind 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.320 of robotics that Elon Musk that had been talking about 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.000 and that we're all, you know, frankly hoping for. It 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.440 would be nice to have a dishes doing robot in 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:52.520 our in our home, do. 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:54.520 It all, take the garbage out and everything. But you know, 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:55.280 it's interesting. 0:14:55.320 --> 0:15:00.360 We had a conversation with Hannah Elliott today, the auto columnist. 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.240 It'll be in our weekend show, it will be in 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:04.640 our weekend show, and she recently went out in a 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:08.680 Mercedes that has kind of their two different programs really 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.840 when it comes to self driving, and she was blown away, but. 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:14.240 It doesn't she drew a distinction for us and then, 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.840 you know, giving a preview for our conversation that is Saturday. 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.160 There's a distinction between Mercedes technology that runs on Nvidia 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:25.520 and Tessela's technology for FSD, which is fully supported by cameras. 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:29.400 Mercedes technology that she writes about away has the cameras 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.560 but also additional sensors. It's more akin to a Weimo. 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.480 Right, Yeah, Weimo is betting on this, and as you said, 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.640 many other people are betting on these kind of multisensor approaches. 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.080 There are a lot of critics of Tesla, including some 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.720 very strong critics who basically say this is impossible. Elon 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.520 Musk's argument has been all along, hey, you drive with 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:54.080 two eyes, therefore cameras should be fine. I don't think 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:54.560 we know the. 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.960 Answer that question. I mean that is that is the 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.040 argument he might. But I will say the brain, for 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:06.600 for uh as challenging as a lot of interpersonal relationships are. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.040 The brain is so powerful when it comes to making 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.560 these split second decisions that having been proved I mean the. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.440 Elon just now and yeah, the brain causes us to 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.360 often get distracted picking up our phone or reaching and 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:19.640 doing things. 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.200 So it's that's a good point. 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.920 I don't know, well, I mean, I do think that. 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:28.200 And Musk made the point about insurance rates and full 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:32.160 self driving, right, we are seeing, whatever your view is, 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:35.200 in terms of the realistic nature of these kind of 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:39.640 robotaxi timelines, we're seeing huge advances in driver assistants. And 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.480 and that is where Elon Musk, you know, to his credit, 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.120 he doesn't he doesn't talk about it this way. But 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.400 if you just see Tesla's autopilot and full self driving 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.880 as a driver assistance system, you know, it's pretty promising. 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.040 You do have to be engaged, you have to be looking. 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.120 It's not a substitute for for your own eyes and 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.080 your own judgment, but it could augment that process. And 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.120 and you're seeing kind of a distinction in terms of 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:05.560 how some automakers are sort of focusing on that path 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.040 while others are going the kind of weimow, you know, 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.920 full self driving route. Musk I think is essentially keeping 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:16.720 both options open. He has the sort of robotaxi demo 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.879 in Austin but also there are many normal cars with 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:21.080 this software built in. 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.080 I guess, and I think part of the reason I 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.000 brought up Hannah is just how she was blown away, 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:26.920 But I think by the technology and how great it was, 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.840 and I just think about we talk about these robots, 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.960 could they possibly though I'm looking at advancements in technology 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:37.359 AI moving along pretty fast that it could actually happen 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.160 sooner rather than later, like is I. 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:41.359 Mean, anything's possible. 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.520 But you know, but even you know, Elon Musk even 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:49.160 even talks about this. There is this thing where getting 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.399 ninety nine percent of the way is very easy, and 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:54.919 that last one percent no one quite knows just how 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.080 it is. And we're talking again about big heavy machines, 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:01.399 industrial robots. They are very advance and industrial robots in 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.720 factories that can do you know, fine motor skills. But 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:07.919 the factories have you know, red yellow tape around them 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:09.119 because you don't want to get too close to the 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:12.360 robot because these are heavy machines. They could hurt somebody. 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.320 And there's going to be a very high bar before 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:19.280 putting one of these optimists optimize in your home. It's 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.040 not especially it only has to do the dish, it 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:23.879 has to be better than your current dishwasher. 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:25.639 We'll see what the consequence is if you do not 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:26.360 call it by the. 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.920 Proper name, if they don't stack the dishes the way 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:29.439 I like it. 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:32.520 Yeah, there's a problem. They talk about relationship challenges. The 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.720 self driving car is a solved problem, is what Elon 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:40.440 Musk said to Larry Fink earlier today. If if maybe 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:44.000 from a technological perspective, it's a solve problem, but you're 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.760 only seeing Waymos in a handful of cities. The robotaxis 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.080 from Tesla are only available in a handful of cities. 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.760 And is it a solve problem in your view? 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:54.760 No, it's obviously not a solve problem. It will be 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:58.040 a solve problem. We all have self driving cars. But 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.120 you know, if from the point of view of Elon Musk, 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.480 from the point of view of Tesla investors, they have 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.560 a big lead. Elon Musk, in his mind, they are 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.040 just going to get there. You brought up the why 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.280 is he going to Davos right now? I think part 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:13.280 of the reason he's going to Davos is because a 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:15.840 lot of eyes are on Davos, because Donald Trump was there. 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.760 Elon Musk is really good at figuring out where the 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.879 news cameras are pointed where the kind of conversation is 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.240 and putting himself there. So he's going there and he's 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:27.920 talking his book, he's talking about driverless cars. While there's 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.200 a lot of focus on this conference. 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.320 But having said that too, coming off of CES twenty 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:36.199 twenty six, right, we talked too about the focus on 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.960 robots or robotics, and it does feel like that's where 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:40.440 the world is going next. 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:42.000 Oh yeah, there's definitely a lot. 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:44.159 I mean, there's tons of investment here. And part of 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.879 the reason is there are these amazing advancements in AI 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.680 and yet we haven't quite figured out how to commercialize them. 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:55.159 So they are all sorts of efforts to find a 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.080 commercial you know, a way to make money on this thing. 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.160 And of course humanoid robots want to these these options. 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.080 There are lots of humanoid robot companies in China right 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.440 now that are also racing to compete with optimists. 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:10.359 So mission accomplished for Elon at Davos, we're talking about 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:12.639 he made a lot of news, a lot was written 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:14.760 about him. We're talking about him right now. He got 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:16.879 the attention, but he could do that anywhere he goes. 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:21.399 It's true, although I think he likes to, you know, 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.080 put himself at the center. And again, I mean Davos 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.119 has in a way that that it's hard for me 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:28.359 to remember. It's been been a few years where with 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:31.560 Trump making these Greenland threats, him flying there, there was 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:35.160 just so much attention on this thing, and it almost 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.719 feels like Musk is trying to get himself, you know, 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.359 back close close to Trump as well, being in the 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:42.399 kind of even though they I think they just passed 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.639 like ships in the night, but but it's hard not 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:48.639 to see, you know, their proximity is getting They didn't. 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.080 Fly there together, no, not yet, not yet. 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.000 Having said that, you know, we wrapped up the year 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.560 doing a really fun conversation with you, like kind of 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:58.720 the Elon Year in Review twenty twenty five, because there 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.160 was a lot if you think about when President Trump 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:02.840 gave me to the White House in doge. How are 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:04.560 you thinking about Elon this year right now? 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.399 Well, I think the big question on the business side 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.479 is SpaceX and the possible space X I PO. I mean, 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.320 we're we're going to see a lot of companies try 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:16.119 to do I POS. I think in the next year 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:17.600 or so for for lots of reasons. 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:20.280 You say possible, Is it a given or we shouldn't 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:21.680 assume that it's definitely going to happen. 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:23.560 I mean it hasn't happened. Yeah, I mean until they file, 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:23.960