WEBVTT - TURNOUT Bonus: David Brooks on why ‘restoring trust in each other is the elemental task' 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:03.720 Hi, My name is Lindsay Louis. Cal Hope is here 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:06.280 for you with free mental health resources. Go to cal 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:09.200 Hope dot org to chat with a live person, call 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:15.640 their warmline at one eight three three seven Hope. Hey, y'all, 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.759 it's Caroline Hobby hosted Get Real with Caroline Hobby, interviewing 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.599 the most fascinating people in Nashville and beyond. I talked 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.000 to artists, I talked to the wise of artists. I 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.560 talked to women entrepreneurs who have created businesses, who are 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.480 moms who juggle a million hats and do it all. 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:34.640 Each episode will leave you inspired, feeling like you can 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.920 accomplish your own dream and calling. Listen to new episodes 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:39.960 of Get Real with Caroline Hobby every Monday on the 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:43.720 Nashville Podcast Network, available on I Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcast, 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:47.479 or wherever you listen to podcast. Hey guys, I'm Kaylie Short. 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:49.879 On my podcast, Too Much to Say, I share my 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:53.199 thoughts on everything for music to Martini's social media and 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:56.560 social anxiety, regrets to risky text and so much more. 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.680 I have been known to read my literal diary and 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.040 is on my show, and sometimes I do interviews with 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:05.319 my Crazy group of Friends. So if you guys want 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:07.400 to tune in, you can hear new episodes of Too 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.200 Much to Say every Wednesday on the National Podcast Network, 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:12.800 available on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:17.919 wherever you listen to him. Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:22.080 and welcome to Election Week and a special bonus episode 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:27.399 of Turnout. This past weekend, on the cusp of the 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:32.840 presidential election, The New York Times published an unprecedented collection 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.919 by the paper's opinion writers called What Have We Lost? 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:41.280 Fifteen essays on what the past four years have cost America? 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:47.840 From innocence, conservatism, allies, pride, and for my guests today, 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:54.280 David Brooks, Faith, you talk about the floor of decency 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.680 in your column. Explain what you mean by that. Yeah, 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:02.560 my view is the most at least modern presidents to politicians, 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.120 they understood there are certain standards of behavior you don't 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:09.040 sink below, and even may not like George Bush or 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:13.760 Barack Obama, but they tried to be decent and civil 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.560 and not be you know, talk about their hands size. 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:18.679 And to me, the crucial moment I write about in 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:20.760 that column was the Second Republican Debate, which was all 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.880 the way back in the primaries. I'm Jake Tapper. We're 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:28.080 live at the Ronald Reagan Library in Cindney Valley, California 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.480 for the main event, and Donald Trump had gone after 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.079 Carly Fiorina for the way she looks, and then he 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.120 turned to Rand Paul the Center from Kentucky and he said, 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:40.120 I never attacked him on his look And believe me, 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:44.560 there's plenty of subject matter right there. I want to 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:49.400 I want to give Trump Mr Trump, and I at 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.680 the right now that doesn't seem so shocking that Trump 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:54.360 has done way worse. But at the moment, I was like, 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.200 what is going on here? That we have a presidential 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.840 candidate who talks makes fun of people's looks. Uh, And 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.519 it got worse. But once you fall through the floor, 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.320 there's no bottom, and as a society, we're trying to 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:09.920 find a bottom. Well. I thought it was interesting you 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:15.120 write that people didn't seem to be morally repulsed by this, 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:20.080 and there was no rise up against this kind of behavior. 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.320 Peter Baker and I talked about how fragile these norms 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:27.040 are and they really require the key players in the 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:30.520 system to adhere to them. And why do you think 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:34.880 that that became acceptable and even praised in some quarters 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:40.080 that kind of language, that kind of derision. I think first, 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.600 there we've gotten used to a certain of reality TV. 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.320 We get get used to a certain level of crassness. Second, 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.160 people have such low expectations of their politicians that they 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.840 don't expect anything. And third, a lot of people feel 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.880 the elites of society are trying to control their thoughts 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:01.600 and speech with political correctness codes, and if somebody's going 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:03.560 to break through those codes, are like, yeah, I'm for that. 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:08.400 And so I'd say those three things for the main drivers. 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:14.800 Let's talk about elites versus everyone else. You know. Um, 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.760 you talk about these two armies, and one is sort 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:24.160 of college educated, you know, think of themselves as worldly 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:30.400 and sophisticated. The other people are less, perhaps educated, have 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.320 been left out of the American dream in many ways. 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:39.560 And there are two sides in polarization. Um, how did 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:45.960 we bring them together? And what could each side do better? Yeah? Well, first, UM, 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:48.520 we have a way to do this. It's called contact. Here, 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.400 you just bring people into contact with each other. And 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:55.640 I got the election way wrong, and so I spent 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.440 the next four years up until COVID going about thirty 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.760 five or forty states a year, just really traveling and 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.360 being with other. People would call it going to a bar. 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:07.160 I call it reporting. And so I'd said the talk 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:13.200 to people and and or breakfast diner. Uh. And I 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:15.880 learned so much. I learned that people who voted for Trump, 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:20.159 they're not all racists. There's a lot of complicated reasons 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.800 people voted for that guy and still vote for that guy. 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.760 I ran into a guy in South Dakota who said 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:27.640 the best day of my life. He was like seventy. 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.320 It was thirty five years ago. I got laid off 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:31.760 at my job because I didn't have the skills, and 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:33.960 I thought I would just slip out. And I opened 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.400 my office door and there were two rows of people 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:42.160 people the whole plants Um workforce with a double rows. 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.159 And he walked between them from his office door to 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.480 his car door in the parking lot as they applauded 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.120 and cheered him as he went, and he said, that 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:51.000 was my best job. That was the best day of 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:54.680 my life. Every job I've had since his worst. And 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:56.880 so I need to change. And so he was gonna 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:58.840 vote for Donald Trump. And everybody knew was going to 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.000 vote for Donald Trump. The communities are crumbling. I would 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.800 say that two things that each side can do. First, 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:08.440 the supporters of Trump can insist on honesty. You know 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.320 that we just gotta have rules of honesty. Second, those 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.039 of us in the more college educated class, we have 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:16.320 to persist in our efforts to get to know those people. 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.159 Four years ago we all read Jade Vance's book, and 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:21.840 so I'm gonna try to get to know them and 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:26.440 let me sort of stopped. And we often condescend. And 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.960 I'll say this as a media person like you. Obviously 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:35.320 you know of the mainstream media organizations, of the five 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:37.880 thousand people in them, how many of them are Trump supporters? 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.520 Very very few. And if you tell forty percent of 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.200 the country, your voice isn't worth hearing. But they're gonna 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.880 react badly. And so we needed to do a better 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:50.720 job of integration and content. How do you do that? Though, 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:55.039 when you say that he's busted through the floor of decency, 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.800 I mean it's a real conundrum I think for people 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.120 because they want to be fair and yet someone who 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:06.240 repeatedly lies and it seems to have crashed through that floor, 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:08.800 how do you stand up to that? So that's a 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.560 very difficult and trick you can to navigate, is it not? Yeah? 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.000 And even you know, I've been on shows where we've 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.240 had Trump supporters and they haven't behaved in a professional matter. 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.000 So I mean, we do have standards of professional our profession. 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:24.200 So that is a challenge of eventually you find some 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.120 But um, if breaking the norm is part of being 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.240 a Trump supporter, then how do you how do you 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:33.800 work and collaborate? That that is a genuine problem. But 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:37.720 hopefully if Trump loses, we can have Trump is m 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.720 without Trump, that the the ideas that couldn't they could 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.640 have created an administration out of of how to help 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:49.160 rural America, how to help industrial America. We can have 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.520 people who champion those ideas without the norm breaking behavior 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.400 of Donald Trump. Do you think if if elected, Joe 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.760 Biden will champion those ideas and reach out to those 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:02.520 communities because it seems that they feel and I think 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.960 legitimately that they're not being heard or value. And I think, 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.320 I mean and fortuitously, he's I think the right man 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.280 for this moment because he comes from Scranton. He he 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.560 condescension is not a note I've ever seen him hit. 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:20.520 He doesn't do condescension and so he just I think 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.880 he fits in naturally and has a natural rapport with 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.280 people in working class communities that even Barack Obama did 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.560 not have, And so I think he's well fit for 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:32.959 this moment. Somebody just sent me a new ad he's 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.719 done that Bruce Springsteen narrates to his song My Hometown, 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.720 and it's about a guy from Scranton. And I do 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.880 think he's rooted in that these kind of small city 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:48.800 rural America and has an agenda which, if he's smart, 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:54.520 if he focuses an agenda that addresses the industrialization all 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.480 the places that am hurt because mills closed, then you 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.000 particularly hit two communities and hit them at the same 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:03.640 time with the same program, African Americans and rural whites. 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.600 And to have a program that unites those two groups 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.400 and helps them would be I think a great thing 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:13.079 for this country. I also think if he could focus 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.360 on retraining. You know, we've heard a lot about the 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:21.679 transition from fossil fuels to uh, you know, green energy, 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:24.560 and I think that terrifies people who think it means 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.200 they're going to lose their job. And I have never 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.720 understood why such a small percentage of GDP is really 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:35.040 focused on retraining individuals for the jobs of the future, 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.120 or at least getting us out of the model where 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:39.800 you have to go to college to have a good job. 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.880 Like community college or apprenticeship programs are just a more 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.840 effective way to give people the skills they need to 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.120 succeed the You know, we send so many people to 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:53.600 college and like percent of them get through, and so 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.360 we have a system that's failing the people. How can 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.840 we stick with that, Not to mention the exorbitant ca 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.440 must of college, which just does not seem to be 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:07.120 sustainable to me, right, that's for sure, and colleges are 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:08.679 now suffering. I don't know what's going to happen to 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.920 hire ed In the year's ED, let's talk about the 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:15.720 crisis of legitimacy. You cite a survey that says in 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.280 nineteen ninety seven, sixty four percent of Americans had a 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.280 good or great deal of trust in the wisdom of 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:27.560 their fellow Americans. Today it's only a third. What happened, 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:31.319 people took a look at each other's voting behaviors and 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.800 they said, oh, those people are not only wrong, they're 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:38.000 crazy or they're evil, And so they lost faith in 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.440 each other. To me, the scariest statistic is trust in 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.720 each other. Two generations ago. If you ask people out 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.839 of the neighbors, are your neighbor's trustworthy? Say yes. Now 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:53.520 it's only and only of millennial in gen z. Younger 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.079 you go, the more distrusting people are because they've been 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:00.440 betrayed by experience. And so when you lose. When church 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.040 loses faith in God, the church collapses. When a nation 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.320 loses faith in each other, the nation collapses. And somehow 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.840 restoring trust in each other is like the elemental chansk. 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.840 Joe Biden can win. But if we don't trust in 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.600 our society, if we can't work together, we're still in 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:20.800 deep trouble. We'll be back right after the short break. 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.080 Hey y'all, this is Caroline Hobby, the host of Get 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:38.160 Real with Caroline Hobby, Honest Women, Honest Talk. I love podcasting. 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:40.360 It is so much fun because I have the most 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:46.520 in depth, spiritual, soulful, real, honest conversations with women who 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:50.520 are mothers, who are entrepreneurs, who have started their own businesses, 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:54.200 who are married to celebrities, who are celebrities themselves. These 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.760 women are juggling motherhood, being a career woman, starting their 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:01.160 own businesses, taking leaps, knowing when to jump. These women 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.600 are incredible and the conversations are so real it will 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:06.640 hit every nerve in your body as a woman. A 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.319 little bit about myself, I was a country music artist 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.000 in a trio. I traveled the country open for every 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.040 celebrity you can imagine in country music. I also been 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.559 on The Amazing Race twice. And I'm married to Michael Hobby, 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:19.440 who is the lead singer of A Thousand Horses, and 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:22.120 we have our precious daughter, Sonny. Who's to Listen to 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.240 new episodes that Get Real with Caroline Hobby every Monday 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.040 on the Nashville Podcast Network, available on the I Heart 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:31.559 Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcast. Hi, 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.400 I'm Robert sex Reese, host of The Doctor Sex re Show, 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:38.800 and every episode I listened to people talk about their 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.720 sex and intimacy issues, and yes, I despise every minute 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:47.160 of it. And she she made mistakes too, everyone at 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.079 her wedding. But hell is real. We're all trapped here 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.640 and there's nothing any of us can do about it. 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.760 So join me, won't you? Listen to The Doctor Sex 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.480 re Show every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:03.360 Apple podcast or where ever you get your podcast. Executive 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:07.800 producer Paris Hilton brings back the hit podcast How Men Think, 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.520 and that's good news for anyone that is confused by men, 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:15.320 which is basically everyone get an inside look at what 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.400 goes on in the mind of men from the men themselves. 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:22.240 It's real talk, straight from the source. How Men Think 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:24.920 podcast is exactly what we need to figure them out. 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.120 It's going to be fun and formative and probably a 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:31.520 bit scary at times because we're literally going inside the 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.240 minds of men. As much as we like to think 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:38.600 all men are the same, they're actually very different. Each week, 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:42.280 a celebrity guest host provides honest advice in his area 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.200 of expertise. When I agreed to do this reboot, I 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:49.560 had a few conditions. No sugarcoating, no mind games, and 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:53.920 absolutely no man splaining. Men are hard enough to understand 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.960 without the mind games. Listen to How Men Think on 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.240 the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or where where 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:07.800 you get your podcasts. Let's return to this special bonus 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:11.320 episode of Turnout with my guest New York Times columnists 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:16.120 David Brooks. Why is this election such a pivotal moment 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.960 in our nation's history. I think we're at one of 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.880 those moral convulsion moments that happens about every sixty years. 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.160 From seventeen seventies we had one, the eighteen thirties, Andrew Jackson, 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:29.040 the eight nineties progressive era. In nineteen sixties, holcol culture 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.600 just suddenly shifts. You get a moment where you get 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.120 a lot of indignation. People are disgusted with the state 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.920 of society. A new generation comes down the scene, new 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:42.280 communications technology, and suddenly the whole country just shifts ideas 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:45.120 and it shifts culture. And I think we're at one 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.120 of those inflection points where we either decide to be 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.600 a diverse society or not. We either decided to be 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.600 an equal society or not. And so these elemental questions 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.200 are on the table. You have said, this is the 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:04.400 result fifty years of social decay. How so, Well, if 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.920 you look at society in the nineteen fifties, we had 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.680 a lot of problems. We had racism, we had sexism, 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.040 we had a lot of anti semitism, but we did 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.640 have a lot of cohesion. We had very low income inequality, 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.080 we had very low political polarization, we had a lot 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.880 of people really active in their communities, a lot of 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:25.120 people with a stable emotional bases. And over the last 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.640 fifty years, we've had a culture of me, of culture 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:29.720 of I want to be free to be myself. And 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:31.600 that's been great, and we've made a lot of progress, 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.600 especially on race and gender and other issues. But we've 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.360 torn apart this the connections between people, and so now 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:43.720 you have more loneliness, more distrust, more isolation, more suicide 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.240 rates a third, more depression. And so people, when you 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.080 make them feel lonely and alienated, they're gonna do what 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.360 their evolutionary routes tell them to do. They're going to 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.920 revert to tribe. And they've reverted to political tribes. And 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.480 now we don't really see issues. We just say what 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.360 what army am I part of? And that's just been 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.800 a horrible thing for our country. And let's talk about 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:09.000 that some more, David. So, our our basic sense of 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:15.400 belonging has now translated into our political ideology and identity, 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:20.040 and and why is that so damaging for our society? 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.480 Because it's asking more of politics, and politics can bear 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:28.960 Politics that's best is a competition between partial truths. Republicans 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.760 believe in freedom, Democrats believe in equality, and we need 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:35.040 to somehow find balance between those two things. Uh. And 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.400 it's about policies, it's about designing a health care system 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:40.760 that will actually work for people. But we've turned it 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.840 into our ethnicity. My ethnicity is being a Republican or 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.640 a Democrat. It's not being Polish American or Italian American 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.040 or somebody from Ballast or a member of this church. 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:56.120 It's politics. And when you turn politics into your ethnicity, 0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:00.840 than any compromises dish honor. You're dishonoring your ethnicis. And 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.920 so when you ask so much of politics, you turn 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.360 politics into this war of all against wall where there's 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:11.120 no compromise. I mean, it's not really that satisfying. If 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.879 you devote yourself to your community and your faith in 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:18.800 your family, these are actually emotionally satisfying things. The things 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.000 that are bringing us together are the things that we hate, 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:26.040 not the things that we love. Yeah, and it's important 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:30.600 to make the distinction between tribalism and community. And community 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.960 is mutual love of a thing. Tribalism is mutual hate 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.720 of another. And so it feels first the community, but 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.960 it's more like an addiction than an actual relationship. What 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:45.480 can be done about this loneliness and isolation that has 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:51.400 prompted people to take these sides or join these armies. Yeah, well, 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.080 in my view, it would help if we weren't being 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:55.919 ripped a part on a data bay basis from the 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.800 top of our society, so that that answers political But 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.800 to me, this kind of isolation and loneliness can only 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.080 be helped by at local level, at relationships, and by 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.840 forming groups and getting active in groups, active in community organizations, 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:13.840 active in neighborhood organizations. You know, I was became a 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.840 member of an extended group about six years ago, forty 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:19.240 kids from d C who were like twenty and about 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.879 eight of us who were older, and we had dinner 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.640 every Thursday night for for five years, and we really 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.080 got into each other's business and we learned to trust 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.199 one another and we became sort of a chosen family, 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:34.679 a forged family. And that's that's how I found community, 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.440 and I think everybody tries to find something like that. 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.520 Do you think that the pandemic in some ways has 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:45.680 added fuel to this partisan fire because people don't have 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:49.320 enough to do and enough places to go in, enough 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:54.920 activities to participate in. If we become it's increased the polarization. Yeah, 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.119 I super felt that we underestimate the emotional toll this 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.520 has taken on us, Like just the pleasure of going 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.560 to a club and watching music. It's a lot of 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.560 pleasures have suddenly denied us. And then we're we're stuck 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:09.800 looking at each other, the Twitter version of each other, 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.640 not the real version of each other. And so you've 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.800 seen the shocking rising depression. There was a poll out 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.320 about the middle of this year where they ask people, 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.800 have you young adults have you contemplated suicide in the 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:24.480 last thirty days? Like a third hat And so we're 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.680 just living at a time of tremendous just emotional stress, 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:30.160 and it's showing up in all sorts of ways, especially 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:34.720 in politics. Can we talk about identity politics and how 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:40.240 that has prohibited both a conversation about policy that allows 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:47.280 for nuance and an environment that also allows for compromise. Yeah, 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.120 I mean, if your identity is it stay, is its 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:54.280 stake at your policy positions, then if you feel your 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.560 identity threatened every moment and you can't compromise, and so 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:01.040 if your identity is based somewhere else, then you're not 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.080 at stake. You're not at risk of annihilation. Uh. The 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.920 other thing that I think has been worrying recently, we're 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:12.679 being not very cheerful. But will trul um is just 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:14.840 the idea that we can't really communicate with each other. 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.639 I can never really understand your experience, and you can 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.120 never really understand mine. We can't understand each other across difference. 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:25.120 And I have great faith in reciprocal dialogue and conversation, 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.840 in what you've spent your career doing, interviewing people like that. 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.400 When I was on this trip to understand the world 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.800 and Trump voters, I really became convinced the interview. It's 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.639 such a blessing on our profession. The interview is what 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:40.960 helps us make contact with each other and learn about 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:44.000 each other. And if we don't do that, and a 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.119 lot of people don't, then you just don't know. You 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:48.240 just don't know. And you can do all the academics 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.560 sociological data you want, but if you don't do the interview, 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:55.480 you don't know. And it's all punditry now, it's all uh, 0:20:55.800 --> 0:21:00.879 commentary and punditry. And it distresses me that people aren't 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:04.120 going out and talking to regular people. I mean, when 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:06.600 is the last time you saw that except for the 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:10.560 pro forma you know din our conversation during the primaries 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:13.280 right now, I agree that don't not punetrate it to 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:19.639 living Uh but um, yeah, no, I I you know, 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:22.960 I wrote sixteen columns saying, don't worry, don't worry, Donald 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:26.840 Trump will never get the Republican nomination. And at the time, 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:28.720 I was working for The New York Times, living in 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:31.320 Washington and teaching at Yale. So I was in the 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:33.200 cell in my whole life. So like, how can I 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.679 get out of touch with America with those three things? 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:38.280 So so I had to break out and spend time 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:40.640 with people. And and now I I have a fair 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.720 number of friends and even close family members who were 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:48.240 supporting Donald Trump. And it's been useful because so many 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.680 of them are super confident's gonna win. And but it's 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:53.840 just been useful to hear the arguments here, the points 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:56.760 of view which are not not the simple obvious ones 0:21:56.840 --> 0:22:02.160 that we assigned to those people. When we come back, 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:04.760 what are we going to do with all this anger 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:15.840 we have? Raffie is the voice of some of the 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:22.040 happiest songs of our generation. Baby, So who is the 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:27.040 man behind Baby bluga. Every human being wants to feel respected. 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:31.520 When we start with young, all good things can grow 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:34.960 from there. I'm Chris Garcia, comedian, new Dad and host 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.840 of Finding Raffie, a new podcast from My Heart Radio 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:41.080 and Fatherly. Listen every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:45.120 app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:48.439 Kaylie Shore. I'm a singer songwriter in Nashville, Tennessee, and 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:51.200 I host a podcast called Too Much to Say, which 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:55.840 is very aptly titled. I write songs most of the time, 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:58.240 but I can't keep my feelings to three minutes in 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:01.560 thirty seconds. So to have whole podcast, it's just amazing. 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:05.560 So I share stories from my music career, my childhood. 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:08.679 I've been known to read diary entries, play unreleased songs. 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:10.920 But no matter what I'm doing, I'm sharing a strong 0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:13.680 opinion I have on something. So I share my thoughts 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:16.840 on everything from music to Martini's social media, to social 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:20.679 anxiety regrets, to risky texts, and so much more. Sometimes 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:23.000 I even have some really special guests on to share 0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:25.359 their craziness and what they have too much to say about, 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:27.520