Speaker 1: Hi, My name is Lindsay Louis. Cal Hope is here
Speaker 1: for you with free mental health resources. Go to cal
Speaker 1: Hope dot org to chat with a live person, call
Speaker 1: their warmline at one eight three three seven Hope. Hey, y'all,
Speaker 1: it's Caroline Hobby hosted Get Real with Caroline Hobby, interviewing
Speaker 1: the most fascinating people in Nashville and beyond. I talked
Speaker 1: to artists, I talked to the wise of artists. I
Speaker 1: talked to women entrepreneurs who have created businesses, who are
Speaker 1: moms who juggle a million hats and do it all.
Speaker 1: Each episode will leave you inspired, feeling like you can
Speaker 1: accomplish your own dream and calling. Listen to new episodes
Speaker 1: of Get Real with Caroline Hobby every Monday on the
Speaker 1: Nashville Podcast Network, available on I Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcast. Hey guys, I'm Kaylie Short.
Speaker 1: On my podcast, Too Much to Say, I share my
Speaker 1: thoughts on everything for music to Martini's social media and
Speaker 1: social anxiety, regrets to risky text and so much more.
Speaker 1: I have been known to read my literal diary and
Speaker 1: is on my show, and sometimes I do interviews with
Speaker 1: my Crazy group of Friends. So if you guys want
Speaker 1: to tune in, you can hear new episodes of Too
Speaker 1: Much to Say every Wednesday on the National Podcast Network,
Speaker 1: available on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to him. Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic
Speaker 1: and welcome to Election Week and a special bonus episode
Speaker 1: of Turnout. This past weekend, on the cusp of the
Speaker 1: presidential election, The New York Times published an unprecedented collection
Speaker 1: by the paper's opinion writers called What Have We Lost?
Speaker 1: Fifteen essays on what the past four years have cost America?
Speaker 1: From innocence, conservatism, allies, pride, and for my guests today,
Speaker 1: David Brooks, Faith, you talk about the floor of decency
Speaker 1: in your column. Explain what you mean by that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my view is the most at least modern presidents to politicians,
Speaker 1: they understood there are certain standards of behavior you don't
Speaker 1: sink below, and even may not like George Bush or
Speaker 1: Barack Obama, but they tried to be decent and civil
Speaker 1: and not be you know, talk about their hands size.
Speaker 1: And to me, the crucial moment I write about in
Speaker 1: that column was the Second Republican Debate, which was all
Speaker 1: the way back in the primaries. I'm Jake Tapper. We're
Speaker 1: live at the Ronald Reagan Library in Cindney Valley, California
Speaker 1: for the main event, and Donald Trump had gone after
Speaker 1: Carly Fiorina for the way she looks, and then he
Speaker 1: turned to Rand Paul the Center from Kentucky and he said,
Speaker 1: I never attacked him on his look And believe me,
Speaker 1: there's plenty of subject matter right there. I want to
Speaker 1: I want to give Trump Mr Trump, and I at
Speaker 1: the right now that doesn't seem so shocking that Trump
Speaker 1: has done way worse. But at the moment, I was like,
Speaker 1: what is going on here? That we have a presidential
Speaker 1: candidate who talks makes fun of people's looks. Uh, And
Speaker 1: it got worse. But once you fall through the floor,
Speaker 1: there's no bottom, and as a society, we're trying to
Speaker 1: find a bottom. Well. I thought it was interesting you
Speaker 1: write that people didn't seem to be morally repulsed by this,
Speaker 1: and there was no rise up against this kind of behavior.
Speaker 1: Peter Baker and I talked about how fragile these norms
Speaker 1: are and they really require the key players in the
Speaker 1: system to adhere to them. And why do you think
Speaker 1: that that became acceptable and even praised in some quarters
Speaker 1: that kind of language, that kind of derision. I think first,
Speaker 1: there we've gotten used to a certain of reality TV.
Speaker 1: We get get used to a certain level of crassness. Second,
Speaker 1: people have such low expectations of their politicians that they
Speaker 1: don't expect anything. And third, a lot of people feel
Speaker 1: the elites of society are trying to control their thoughts
Speaker 1: and speech with political correctness codes, and if somebody's going
Speaker 1: to break through those codes, are like, yeah, I'm for that.
Speaker 1: And so I'd say those three things for the main drivers.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about elites versus everyone else. You know. Um,
Speaker 1: you talk about these two armies, and one is sort
Speaker 1: of college educated, you know, think of themselves as worldly
Speaker 1: and sophisticated. The other people are less, perhaps educated, have
Speaker 1: been left out of the American dream in many ways.
Speaker 1: And there are two sides in polarization. Um, how did
Speaker 1: we bring them together? And what could each side do better? Yeah? Well, first, UM,
Speaker 1: we have a way to do this. It's called contact. Here,
Speaker 1: you just bring people into contact with each other. And
Speaker 1: I got the election way wrong, and so I spent
Speaker 1: the next four years up until COVID going about thirty
Speaker 1: five or forty states a year, just really traveling and
Speaker 1: being with other. People would call it going to a bar.
Speaker 1: I call it reporting. And so I'd said the talk
Speaker 1: to people and and or breakfast diner. Uh. And I
Speaker 1: learned so much. I learned that people who voted for Trump,
Speaker 1: they're not all racists. There's a lot of complicated reasons
Speaker 1: people voted for that guy and still vote for that guy.
Speaker 1: I ran into a guy in South Dakota who said
Speaker 1: the best day of my life. He was like seventy.
Speaker 1: It was thirty five years ago. I got laid off
Speaker 1: at my job because I didn't have the skills, and
Speaker 1: I thought I would just slip out. And I opened
Speaker 1: my office door and there were two rows of people
Speaker 1: people the whole plants Um workforce with a double rows.
Speaker 1: And he walked between them from his office door to
Speaker 1: his car door in the parking lot as they applauded
Speaker 1: and cheered him as he went, and he said, that
Speaker 1: was my best job. That was the best day of
Speaker 1: my life. Every job I've had since his worst. And
Speaker 1: so I need to change. And so he was gonna
Speaker 1: vote for Donald Trump. And everybody knew was going to
Speaker 1: vote for Donald Trump. The communities are crumbling. I would
Speaker 1: say that two things that each side can do. First,
Speaker 1: the supporters of Trump can insist on honesty. You know
Speaker 1: that we just gotta have rules of honesty. Second, those
Speaker 1: of us in the more college educated class, we have
Speaker 1: to persist in our efforts to get to know those people.
Speaker 1: Four years ago we all read Jade Vance's book, and
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna try to get to know them and
Speaker 1: let me sort of stopped. And we often condescend. And
Speaker 1: I'll say this as a media person like you. Obviously
Speaker 1: you know of the mainstream media organizations, of the five
Speaker 1: thousand people in them, how many of them are Trump supporters?
Speaker 1: Very very few. And if you tell forty percent of
Speaker 1: the country, your voice isn't worth hearing. But they're gonna
Speaker 1: react badly. And so we needed to do a better
Speaker 1: job of integration and content. How do you do that? Though,
Speaker 1: when you say that he's busted through the floor of decency,
Speaker 1: I mean it's a real conundrum I think for people
Speaker 1: because they want to be fair and yet someone who
Speaker 1: repeatedly lies and it seems to have crashed through that floor,
Speaker 1: how do you stand up to that? So that's a
Speaker 1: very difficult and trick you can to navigate, is it not? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And even you know, I've been on shows where we've
Speaker 1: had Trump supporters and they haven't behaved in a professional matter.
Speaker 1: So I mean, we do have standards of professional our profession.
Speaker 1: So that is a challenge of eventually you find some
Speaker 1: But um, if breaking the norm is part of being
Speaker 1: a Trump supporter, then how do you how do you
Speaker 1: work and collaborate? That that is a genuine problem. But
Speaker 1: hopefully if Trump loses, we can have Trump is m
Speaker 1: without Trump, that the the ideas that couldn't they could
Speaker 1: have created an administration out of of how to help
Speaker 1: rural America, how to help industrial America. We can have
Speaker 1: people who champion those ideas without the norm breaking behavior
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump. Do you think if if elected, Joe
Speaker 1: Biden will champion those ideas and reach out to those
Speaker 1: communities because it seems that they feel and I think
Speaker 1: legitimately that they're not being heard or value. And I think,
Speaker 1: I mean and fortuitously, he's I think the right man
Speaker 1: for this moment because he comes from Scranton. He he
Speaker 1: condescension is not a note I've ever seen him hit.
Speaker 1: He doesn't do condescension and so he just I think
Speaker 1: he fits in naturally and has a natural rapport with
Speaker 1: people in working class communities that even Barack Obama did
Speaker 1: not have, And so I think he's well fit for
Speaker 1: this moment. Somebody just sent me a new ad he's
Speaker 1: done that Bruce Springsteen narrates to his song My Hometown,
Speaker 1: and it's about a guy from Scranton. And I do
Speaker 1: think he's rooted in that these kind of small city
Speaker 1: rural America and has an agenda which, if he's smart,
Speaker 1: if he focuses an agenda that addresses the industrialization all
Speaker 1: the places that am hurt because mills closed, then you
Speaker 1: particularly hit two communities and hit them at the same
Speaker 1: time with the same program, African Americans and rural whites.
Speaker 1: And to have a program that unites those two groups
Speaker 1: and helps them would be I think a great thing
Speaker 1: for this country. I also think if he could focus
Speaker 1: on retraining. You know, we've heard a lot about the
Speaker 1: transition from fossil fuels to uh, you know, green energy,
Speaker 1: and I think that terrifies people who think it means
Speaker 1: they're going to lose their job. And I have never
Speaker 1: understood why such a small percentage of GDP is really
Speaker 1: focused on retraining individuals for the jobs of the future,
Speaker 1: or at least getting us out of the model where
Speaker 1: you have to go to college to have a good job.
Speaker 1: Like community college or apprenticeship programs are just a more
Speaker 1: effective way to give people the skills they need to
Speaker 1: succeed the You know, we send so many people to
Speaker 1: college and like percent of them get through, and so
Speaker 1: we have a system that's failing the people. How can
Speaker 1: we stick with that, Not to mention the exorbitant ca
Speaker 1: must of college, which just does not seem to be
Speaker 1: sustainable to me, right, that's for sure, and colleges are
Speaker 1: now suffering. I don't know what's going to happen to
Speaker 1: hire ed In the year's ED, let's talk about the
Speaker 1: crisis of legitimacy. You cite a survey that says in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, sixty four percent of Americans had a
Speaker 1: good or great deal of trust in the wisdom of
Speaker 1: their fellow Americans. Today it's only a third. What happened,
Speaker 1: people took a look at each other's voting behaviors and
Speaker 1: they said, oh, those people are not only wrong, they're
Speaker 1: crazy or they're evil, And so they lost faith in
Speaker 1: each other. To me, the scariest statistic is trust in
Speaker 1: each other. Two generations ago. If you ask people out
Speaker 1: of the neighbors, are your neighbor's trustworthy? Say yes. Now
Speaker 1: it's only and only of millennial in gen z. Younger
Speaker 1: you go, the more distrusting people are because they've been
Speaker 1: betrayed by experience. And so when you lose. When church
Speaker 1: loses faith in God, the church collapses. When a nation
Speaker 1: loses faith in each other, the nation collapses. And somehow
Speaker 1: restoring trust in each other is like the elemental chansk.
Speaker 1: Joe Biden can win. But if we don't trust in
Speaker 1: our society, if we can't work together, we're still in
Speaker 1: deep trouble. We'll be back right after the short break.
Speaker 1: Hey y'all, this is Caroline Hobby, the host of Get
Speaker 1: Real with Caroline Hobby, Honest Women, Honest Talk. I love podcasting.
Speaker 1: It is so much fun because I have the most
Speaker 1: in depth, spiritual, soulful, real, honest conversations with women who
Speaker 1: are mothers, who are entrepreneurs, who have started their own businesses,
Speaker 1: who are married to celebrities, who are celebrities themselves. These
Speaker 1: women are juggling motherhood, being a career woman, starting their
Speaker 1: own businesses, taking leaps, knowing when to jump. These women
Speaker 1: are incredible and the conversations are so real it will
Speaker 1: hit every nerve in your body as a woman. A
Speaker 1: little bit about myself, I was a country music artist
Speaker 1: in a trio. I traveled the country open for every
Speaker 1: celebrity you can imagine in country music. I also been
Speaker 1: on The Amazing Race twice. And I'm married to Michael Hobby,
Speaker 1: who is the lead singer of A Thousand Horses, and
Speaker 1: we have our precious daughter, Sonny. Who's to Listen to
Speaker 1: new episodes that Get Real with Caroline Hobby every Monday
Speaker 1: on the Nashville Podcast Network, available on the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcast. Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm Robert sex Reese, host of The Doctor Sex re Show,
Speaker 1: and every episode I listened to people talk about their
Speaker 1: sex and intimacy issues, and yes, I despise every minute
Speaker 1: of it. And she she made mistakes too, everyone at
Speaker 1: her wedding. But hell is real. We're all trapped here
Speaker 1: and there's nothing any of us can do about it.
Speaker 1: So join me, won't you? Listen to The Doctor Sex
Speaker 1: re Show every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app
Speaker 1: Apple podcast or where ever you get your podcast. Executive
Speaker 1: producer Paris Hilton brings back the hit podcast How Men Think,
Speaker 1: and that's good news for anyone that is confused by men,
Speaker 1: which is basically everyone get an inside look at what
Speaker 1: goes on in the mind of men from the men themselves.
Speaker 1: It's real talk, straight from the source. How Men Think
Speaker 1: podcast is exactly what we need to figure them out.
Speaker 1: It's going to be fun and formative and probably a
Speaker 1: bit scary at times because we're literally going inside the
Speaker 1: minds of men. As much as we like to think
Speaker 1: all men are the same, they're actually very different. Each week,
Speaker 1: a celebrity guest host provides honest advice in his area
Speaker 1: of expertise. When I agreed to do this reboot, I
Speaker 1: had a few conditions. No sugarcoating, no mind games, and
Speaker 1: absolutely no man splaining. Men are hard enough to understand
Speaker 1: without the mind games. Listen to How Men Think on
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or where where
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Let's return to this special bonus
Speaker 1: episode of Turnout with my guest New York Times columnists
Speaker 1: David Brooks. Why is this election such a pivotal moment
Speaker 1: in our nation's history. I think we're at one of
Speaker 1: those moral convulsion moments that happens about every sixty years.
Speaker 1: From seventeen seventies we had one, the eighteen thirties, Andrew Jackson,
Speaker 1: the eight nineties progressive era. In nineteen sixties, holcol culture
Speaker 1: just suddenly shifts. You get a moment where you get
Speaker 1: a lot of indignation. People are disgusted with the state
Speaker 1: of society. A new generation comes down the scene, new
Speaker 1: communications technology, and suddenly the whole country just shifts ideas
Speaker 1: and it shifts culture. And I think we're at one
Speaker 1: of those inflection points where we either decide to be
Speaker 1: a diverse society or not. We either decided to be
Speaker 1: an equal society or not. And so these elemental questions
Speaker 1: are on the table. You have said, this is the
Speaker 1: result fifty years of social decay. How so, Well, if
Speaker 1: you look at society in the nineteen fifties, we had
Speaker 1: a lot of problems. We had racism, we had sexism,
Speaker 1: we had a lot of anti semitism, but we did
Speaker 1: have a lot of cohesion. We had very low income inequality,
Speaker 1: we had very low political polarization, we had a lot
Speaker 1: of people really active in their communities, a lot of
Speaker 1: people with a stable emotional bases. And over the last
Speaker 1: fifty years, we've had a culture of me, of culture
Speaker 1: of I want to be free to be myself. And
Speaker 1: that's been great, and we've made a lot of progress,
Speaker 1: especially on race and gender and other issues. But we've
Speaker 1: torn apart this the connections between people, and so now
Speaker 1: you have more loneliness, more distrust, more isolation, more suicide
Speaker 1: rates a third, more depression. And so people, when you
Speaker 1: make them feel lonely and alienated, they're gonna do what
Speaker 1: their evolutionary routes tell them to do. They're going to
Speaker 1: revert to tribe. And they've reverted to political tribes. And
Speaker 1: now we don't really see issues. We just say what
Speaker 1: what army am I part of? And that's just been
Speaker 1: a horrible thing for our country. And let's talk about
Speaker 1: that some more, David. So, our our basic sense of
Speaker 1: belonging has now translated into our political ideology and identity,
Speaker 1: and and why is that so damaging for our society?
Speaker 1: Because it's asking more of politics, and politics can bear
Speaker 1: Politics that's best is a competition between partial truths. Republicans
Speaker 1: believe in freedom, Democrats believe in equality, and we need
Speaker 1: to somehow find balance between those two things. Uh. And
Speaker 1: it's about policies, it's about designing a health care system
Speaker 1: that will actually work for people. But we've turned it
Speaker 1: into our ethnicity. My ethnicity is being a Republican or
Speaker 1: a Democrat. It's not being Polish American or Italian American
Speaker 1: or somebody from Ballast or a member of this church.
Speaker 1: It's politics. And when you turn politics into your ethnicity,
Speaker 1: than any compromises dish honor. You're dishonoring your ethnicis. And
Speaker 1: so when you ask so much of politics, you turn
Speaker 1: politics into this war of all against wall where there's
Speaker 1: no compromise. I mean, it's not really that satisfying. If
Speaker 1: you devote yourself to your community and your faith in
Speaker 1: your family, these are actually emotionally satisfying things. The things
Speaker 1: that are bringing us together are the things that we hate,
Speaker 1: not the things that we love. Yeah, and it's important
Speaker 1: to make the distinction between tribalism and community. And community
Speaker 1: is mutual love of a thing. Tribalism is mutual hate
Speaker 1: of another. And so it feels first the community, but
Speaker 1: it's more like an addiction than an actual relationship. What
Speaker 1: can be done about this loneliness and isolation that has
Speaker 1: prompted people to take these sides or join these armies. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: in my view, it would help if we weren't being
Speaker 1: ripped a part on a data bay basis from the
Speaker 1: top of our society, so that that answers political But
Speaker 1: to me, this kind of isolation and loneliness can only
Speaker 1: be helped by at local level, at relationships, and by
Speaker 1: forming groups and getting active in groups, active in community organizations,
Speaker 1: active in neighborhood organizations. You know, I was became a
Speaker 1: member of an extended group about six years ago, forty
Speaker 1: kids from d C who were like twenty and about
Speaker 1: eight of us who were older, and we had dinner
Speaker 1: every Thursday night for for five years, and we really
Speaker 1: got into each other's business and we learned to trust
Speaker 1: one another and we became sort of a chosen family,
Speaker 1: a forged family. And that's that's how I found community,
Speaker 1: and I think everybody tries to find something like that.
Speaker 1: Do you think that the pandemic in some ways has
Speaker 1: added fuel to this partisan fire because people don't have
Speaker 1: enough to do and enough places to go in, enough
Speaker 1: activities to participate in. If we become it's increased the polarization. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I super felt that we underestimate the emotional toll this
Speaker 1: has taken on us, Like just the pleasure of going
Speaker 1: to a club and watching music. It's a lot of
Speaker 1: pleasures have suddenly denied us. And then we're we're stuck
Speaker 1: looking at each other, the Twitter version of each other,
Speaker 1: not the real version of each other. And so you've
Speaker 1: seen the shocking rising depression. There was a poll out
Speaker 1: about the middle of this year where they ask people,
Speaker 1: have you young adults have you contemplated suicide in the
Speaker 1: last thirty days? Like a third hat And so we're
Speaker 1: just living at a time of tremendous just emotional stress,
Speaker 1: and it's showing up in all sorts of ways, especially
Speaker 1: in politics. Can we talk about identity politics and how
Speaker 1: that has prohibited both a conversation about policy that allows
Speaker 1: for nuance and an environment that also allows for compromise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, if your identity is it stay, is its
Speaker 1: stake at your policy positions, then if you feel your
Speaker 1: identity threatened every moment and you can't compromise, and so
Speaker 1: if your identity is based somewhere else, then you're not
Speaker 1: at stake. You're not at risk of annihilation. Uh. The
Speaker 1: other thing that I think has been worrying recently, we're
Speaker 1: being not very cheerful. But will trul um is just
Speaker 1: the idea that we can't really communicate with each other.
Speaker 1: I can never really understand your experience, and you can
Speaker 1: never really understand mine. We can't understand each other across difference.
Speaker 1: And I have great faith in reciprocal dialogue and conversation,
Speaker 1: in what you've spent your career doing, interviewing people like that.
Speaker 1: When I was on this trip to understand the world
Speaker 1: and Trump voters, I really became convinced the interview. It's
Speaker 1: such a blessing on our profession. The interview is what
Speaker 1: helps us make contact with each other and learn about
Speaker 1: each other. And if we don't do that, and a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't, then you just don't know. You
Speaker 1: just don't know. And you can do all the academics
Speaker 1: sociological data you want, but if you don't do the interview,
Speaker 1: you don't know. And it's all punditry now, it's all uh,
Speaker 1: commentary and punditry. And it distresses me that people aren't
Speaker 1: going out and talking to regular people. I mean, when
Speaker 1: is the last time you saw that except for the
Speaker 1: pro forma you know din our conversation during the primaries
Speaker 1: right now, I agree that don't not punetrate it to
Speaker 1: living Uh but um, yeah, no, I I you know,
Speaker 1: I wrote sixteen columns saying, don't worry, don't worry, Donald
Speaker 1: Trump will never get the Republican nomination. And at the time,
Speaker 1: I was working for The New York Times, living in
Speaker 1: Washington and teaching at Yale. So I was in the
Speaker 1: cell in my whole life. So like, how can I
Speaker 1: get out of touch with America with those three things?
Speaker 1: So so I had to break out and spend time
Speaker 1: with people. And and now I I have a fair
Speaker 1: number of friends and even close family members who were
Speaker 1: supporting Donald Trump. And it's been useful because so many
Speaker 1: of them are super confident's gonna win. And but it's
Speaker 1: just been useful to hear the arguments here, the points
Speaker 1: of view which are not not the simple obvious ones
Speaker 1: that we assigned to those people. When we come back,
Speaker 1: what are we going to do with all this anger
Speaker 1: we have? Raffie is the voice of some of the
Speaker 1: happiest songs of our generation. Baby, So who is the
Speaker 1: man behind Baby bluga. Every human being wants to feel respected.
Speaker 1: When we start with young, all good things can grow
Speaker 1: from there. I'm Chris Garcia, comedian, new Dad and host
Speaker 1: of Finding Raffie, a new podcast from My Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Fatherly. Listen every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm
Speaker 1: Kaylie Shore. I'm a singer songwriter in Nashville, Tennessee, and
Speaker 1: I host a podcast called Too Much to Say, which
Speaker 1: is very aptly titled. I write songs most of the time,
Speaker 1: but I can't keep my feelings to three minutes in
Speaker 1: thirty seconds. So to have whole podcast, it's just amazing.
Speaker 1: So I share stories from my music career, my childhood.
Speaker 1: I've been known to read diary entries, play unreleased songs.
Speaker 1: But no matter what I'm doing, I'm sharing a strong
Speaker 1: opinion I have on something. So I share my thoughts
Speaker 1: on everything from music to Martini's social media, to social
Speaker 1: anxiety regrets, to risky texts, and so much more. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I even have some really special guests on to share
Speaker 1: their craziness and what they have too much to say about,
Speaker 1: So you guys can listen to new episodes of Too
Speaker 1: Much to Say every Wednesday on the Nashville Podcast Network,
Speaker 1: available on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your popular every I'm John Gonzalez,
Speaker 1: the host of Sports Illustrated Weekly. Sports Illustrated has delivered
Speaker 1: the best storytelling in sports for seventy years, first in
Speaker 1: the pages of the magazine, then on SI dot com,
Speaker 1: and now that tradition continues on a new podcast. Each week,
Speaker 1: We'll dive deep into the best stories from around the
Speaker 1: sports world. We'll ask the questions that we're all wondering
Speaker 1: and push for the answers we all want. Everything from
Speaker 1: investigating the Super Bowl's impact on l A to examining
Speaker 1: white booing is as big a part of the fan
Speaker 1: experience as cheering. Sports Illustrated Weekly is here to bring
Speaker 1: you the entertaining tales you can't get anywhere else, the
Speaker 1: kinds of stories that make you smile and laugh, clap
Speaker 1: and cry, marvel, think and fall in love with sports
Speaker 1: all over again. Sports Illustrated Weekly is available every Wednesday
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Subscribe. Now, let's talk about wokeness,
Speaker 1: because I like this quote and you say, it's partly
Speaker 1: about fighting oppression, but it's also become a status symbol.
Speaker 1: It's showing people that you are so intellectually involved that
Speaker 1: you can use words like interceptionality, decolonizing, and cultural appropriation,
Speaker 1: political correct Witness is not just a means for the
Speaker 1: less privilege to set standards of behavior. It is sometimes
Speaker 1: the way people with cultural power push others around. How
Speaker 1: can the left listen to the silent majority rather than
Speaker 1: patronize them. How do we find a national discourse? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's people take advantage of the power they have.
Speaker 1: And wokenness is a movement that emerged out the universities,
Speaker 1: and it comes thick with university jargon. It comes thick
Speaker 1: with the belief that all words are power and you
Speaker 1: can't have a conversation. I'm just asserting my power with
Speaker 1: my words, and therefore my words need to be controlled.
Speaker 1: And that's me is wrong. Words are not power. Words
Speaker 1: are mutual explorations to find ways to live together and
Speaker 1: be friends. Uh. And so the impulse to sensor words
Speaker 1: and use the power of your cultural position to silence
Speaker 1: others is not only in the universities, not only in
Speaker 1: the media. It's widespread. There was a study Americans say
Speaker 1: they're afraid to state their political opinions for fear that
Speaker 1: other people will shout them down. That's a lot of people.
Speaker 1: That's the majority of Americans who are afraid to be honest.
Speaker 1: And so I my friends, and I obviously I'm a
Speaker 1: New York Times columnists. I'm in the precincts of cultural power,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people in those precincts don't appreciate
Speaker 1: how much power they have, and how like all power,
Speaker 1: it can corrupt you, and you can abuse it, and
Speaker 1: we abuse it when we try to use it to
Speaker 1: shout down and silence others. But don't you think the
Speaker 1: right wing is just as guilty. I mean, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I I don't see many people going on Fox feeling
Speaker 1: comfortable expressing a different point of view. Oh no, they're
Speaker 1: super right wing wokeness just as well. Let people get
Speaker 1: canceled on the right for not totally being with Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: for having some opinion, or you know, for being for
Speaker 1: gay marriage. I mean, there's um there wherever these days,
Speaker 1: there's um wokenness, or whether there's political extremism, there's intolerance
Speaker 1: of difference. And I do think there's woken us on
Speaker 1: the right just as much as unlashed. I also am
Speaker 1: concerned that people can have a nuanced position that they
Speaker 1: can't support black lives matter and want to get to
Speaker 1: the root of systemic racism, but also appreciate what good
Speaker 1: police officers do and yet also see the need for
Speaker 1: police reform. It seems to me you have to pick
Speaker 1: one side or the other when you know all things
Speaker 1: may be true. Yeah, and I've admired Joe Biden for this,
Speaker 1: for saying, yes, we have systemic racism, but America is
Speaker 1: still a very lovely country. Yes we want to black
Speaker 1: lives matter, but we also need some law and orders.
Speaker 1: So these are false binaries, and I think he's done
Speaker 1: a good job. There was a student group at University
Speaker 1: of Wisconsin this week who I think they took down
Speaker 1: the statue of Abraham Lincoln or they did something to
Speaker 1: cancel Abraham Lincoln. Like, you can take two things at
Speaker 1: once about Lincoln. One, by our standards, his views on
Speaker 1: race work not evolved, not correct. But you can also
Speaker 1: realize that I gave his life to end slaver. Uh
Speaker 1: So he just tremendous good and over the course of
Speaker 1: his life, and you should be able to have both
Speaker 1: those things in your mind at the same time. And
Speaker 1: the same thing is happening to Thomas Jefferson, who established
Speaker 1: my alma mater, the University of Virginia. There's a culture
Speaker 1: war of sorts erupting there, with people feeling like he
Speaker 1: should not be sort of the patron saint of the university,
Speaker 1: somebody to be idolized. And there are those who say,
Speaker 1: you know, don't mess with Jefferson, right. Yeah. My role
Speaker 1: on that is we should cancel somebody if the main
Speaker 1: thing they're known for is disgraceful. So yeah, there was
Speaker 1: a Calhoun College, right. I did a whole thing on this,
Speaker 1: and that was the determination what is the primary accomplishment
Speaker 1: of that individual? And for c. Calhoun, it really was
Speaker 1: perpetuating slavery, right, And Jefferson's writing The Decoration of Independence
Speaker 1: being president. And the difficult case is UM Washington and
Speaker 1: Lee University. Uh really yeah, well, very fine school. I
Speaker 1: love love I've been there many times. I love that place.
Speaker 1: My view is Lee Washington. Lee became Washington League because
Speaker 1: Roberty Lee became president of the college after the Civil War,
Speaker 1: So maybe they're celebrating him for that, but other things
Speaker 1: like it. Virginia Military Institute right next door, they just
Speaker 1: took down the statue of Stonewall Jackson, and maybe that's legit.
Speaker 1: It's it's tough for them because he was the great
Speaker 1: hero and he led the students of b M I
Speaker 1: out to battle. But maybe that's that stuff is a
Speaker 1: little shit. I I um my view as the statues,
Speaker 1: the Confederate statues, some of them should come down, but
Speaker 1: mostly we should just prep other statues statues that Memora
Speaker 1: Memora memorialize those who are victims of lynch, who led
Speaker 1: the fight for reconstruction, for abolition, for civil rights, that
Speaker 1: both to see them contextualized a little more than towards now.
Speaker 1: I know that's one option. I sort of feel that
Speaker 1: they should be taken down if they're in a prominent position,
Speaker 1: because to me, statues in public spaces telegraph the values
Speaker 1: of that community. So I think it's kind of hard
Speaker 1: to have both. But I I take your point because
Speaker 1: I know some people feel that way. I think they
Speaker 1: should belong in museums and be explained as a really
Speaker 1: critical part of our history, but not necessarily as the
Speaker 1: centerpiece of the community. Yeah, I see that where I
Speaker 1: live in Washington. See, I'm right near a thing called
Speaker 1: Lincoln Park, and there's a statue which was put up
Speaker 1: by former slaves of Lincoln towards Lincoln in homage of them.
Speaker 1: But it's him standing over a kneeling African American slave
Speaker 1: who's breaking free. The first time I saw that, I thought,
Speaker 1: what is that doing? They're like, why is the African
Speaker 1: Raican guy kneeling in Lincoln's But it was It was
Speaker 1: put up by uh And I've had long debates with
Speaker 1: people in the park about that statue, And at first
Speaker 1: I thought, well, it was an historical moment. Frederick Douglas
Speaker 1: did a very famous speech right there. Um, but I
Speaker 1: think it's probably going to museum. Maybe. Your colleague Morning
Speaker 1: Down wrote about how it's exhausting to be this outraged
Speaker 1: all the time, and we do seem to be in
Speaker 1: a permanent state of anger and outrage, lashing out of
Speaker 1: people who probably have much more in common with us
Speaker 1: than we realized. And you say, permanent indignation is not
Speaker 1: a healthy emotional state. How do we deescalate this anger
Speaker 1: and how do we prevent this from being our default emotion?
Speaker 1: Because it seems like it's been this way for quite
Speaker 1: a while now. Yeah, Well, I mean, if Biden wins,
Speaker 1: he's just less outrageous than Donald Trump, whatever you think
Speaker 1: of his views. And he's what really struck me as
Speaker 1: remember that a couple of weeks ago they both had
Speaker 1: town halls at the same time, and you knew going
Speaker 1: in that Biden's was going to be more boring than Trump's,
Speaker 1: and indeed it was. But more people watch Bidens than
Speaker 1: watch Trumps. And that said to me that people are
Speaker 1: ready for a little bored, a little bored I'm a
Speaker 1: little normal political discussion, and I do think a if
Speaker 1: Biden wins, we wanted to think about the presidency all
Speaker 1: the time and be frankly, for a lot of us,
Speaker 1: it's easy clickbait to just outrage about Trump all the time,
Speaker 1: and maybe politics will be less central and we can
Speaker 1: go I like, I prefer writing about culture than I
Speaker 1: do to politics, but I can't do that now because
Speaker 1: people only read one subdact, which is politics. So I'd
Speaker 1: love to be able to go back and write about
Speaker 1: cultural stuff and moral stuff and emotional stuff. And I
Speaker 1: think we were all just blood pressure would just go down.
Speaker 1: I thought we could talk a little bit about weavers
Speaker 1: and what you're doing with that. Yeah, weavers are people
Speaker 1: who are at the local level building community that One
Speaker 1: of them, for example, is again Ponchoguilas who uh he
Speaker 1: takes a documented immigrants who have broken their backs, have
Speaker 1: been paralyzed by construction accidents, and he gives them wheelchairs
Speaker 1: and diapers and catheters so they can lead lives with dignity.
Speaker 1: And then he organized and they all become a social workers.
Speaker 1: So you'll be in a neighborhood and fifty Latino guys
Speaker 1: and wheelchairs will roll in your neighborhood to do good
Speaker 1: work for you. Uh. And so those people are everywhere
Speaker 1: we go, you know. At the We've project, we go
Speaker 1: around the country. We land in a little town McCook, Nebraska, Wilkes,
Speaker 1: North Carolina, and we say who's trusted here, And immediately
Speaker 1: we find seventy people, five people who are just loved
Speaker 1: their town and they want to serve it, and they do.
Speaker 1: And what we We've do is we try to lift
Speaker 1: them up, maybe give them some resources, connecting with each other,
Speaker 1: make them more powerful figures in our society so we
Speaker 1: can all sort of copy them a little. David how
Speaker 1: can Trump supporters and Biden supporters learn to respect one another? Yeah,
Speaker 1: repeating back to each other what we believe, Like, here's
Speaker 1: why I tell me if I'm right, here's why, I
Speaker 1: think you believe what you believe, And and just having
Speaker 1: a conversation that way have people basically want respect and
Speaker 1: a lot of people feel invisible. When I would go
Speaker 1: to the Midwest years ago, once a week i'd hear,
Speaker 1: oh you guys, regardless as fly over country, and then
Speaker 1: two years ago that I heard that eight times a day.
Speaker 1: People just don't feel seen. They feel they're ignored and
Speaker 1: look down upon. And if you you know by I
Speaker 1: think you show respect to Trump voters and who follow you.
Speaker 1: And that's the first step, is showing basic respect. And
Speaker 1: of course we're going to disagree that that's called democracy,
Speaker 1: but we disagreeing with a show of affection and respect
Speaker 1: and with a sense that we all do love the
Speaker 1: same country. Uh. And I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: are voting for Trump are afraid that we don't all
Speaker 1: love the same country. We don't all love our country,
Speaker 1: and some people just want to run it down and
Speaker 1: change it. Uh. And I think combined again, it's done
Speaker 1: a good job of saying, Hey, I love America. This
Speaker 1: is the America is my country, and if we have
Speaker 1: that mutual affection, then we have some up income. Hey listeners,
Speaker 1: I'll be back in just a few days with my
Speaker 1: post election episode of Turnout. In the meantime, I'd love
Speaker 1: to hear your voting story, whether you voted early in person,
Speaker 1: sent in your mail in ballot, or are planning to
Speaker 1: vote on election day. Tell me what your experience was
Speaker 1: like and how it felt good or bad. You can
Speaker 1: call eight four four or seven nine seven eight eight
Speaker 1: three and leave your name in a short thirty second
Speaker 1: message and we may share it on an upcoming episode. Again,
Speaker 1: that number is eight four four four seven nine seven
Speaker 1: eight eight three, Happy Voting Everyone. Turnout is a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Media and Katie Couric Media. The executive
Speaker 1: producers are Katie Curic and Courtney Litz. Supervising producers Lauren Hansen,
Speaker 1: Associate producers Darre Clements, Eliza Costas and Emily Pento. Editing
Speaker 1: by Derrick Clements and Lauren Hansen. Mixing by Derrick Clements.
Speaker 1: Our researcher is Gabriel Loser and special thanks to my
Speaker 1: right hand woman, Adriana Fasio. You can follow me in
Speaker 1: all my election coverage at Katie Curry. Meanwhile, yes, I'm
Speaker 1: Katie Curry. Thanks so much for listening everyone. We'll see
Speaker 1: you next time. Hi, my name is Lindsay Louis. Cal
Speaker 1: Hope is here for you with free mental health resources.
Speaker 1: Go to cal Hope dot org To chat with a
Speaker 1: live person, call their warmline at one eight three three Hope.
Speaker 1: From Calvary Audio comes the new true crime podcast, The
Speaker 1: Shadow Girls. I grew up near the banks of the
Speaker 1: Green River and in the shadow of the killer that
Speaker 1: bears its name. Prosecutors described him as a serial killer.
Speaker 1: But this podcast isn't only about tracking down the killer.
Speaker 1: It's about the victims. We stayed in the woods. He
Speaker 1: always like to go into words. Listen to The Shadow
Speaker 1: Girls on the I Heart Radio app, on Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Amy Brown
Speaker 1: from Four Things with Amy Brown on the Nashville Podcast Network.
Speaker 1: A podcast where in each episode you're gonna get at
Speaker 1: least four things that will hopefully contribute to your life
Speaker 1: in a positive way. Guests come on like celebrities or therapists,
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