1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Hi, My name is Lindsay Louis. Cal Hope is here 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: for you with free mental health resources. Go to cal 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Hope dot org to chat with a live person, call 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: their warmline at one eight three three seven Hope. Hey, y'all, 5 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: it's Caroline Hobby hosted Get Real with Caroline Hobby, interviewing 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: the most fascinating people in Nashville and beyond. I talked 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: to artists, I talked to the wise of artists. I 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: talked to women entrepreneurs who have created businesses, who are 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: moms who juggle a million hats and do it all. 10 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: Each episode will leave you inspired, feeling like you can 11 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: accomplish your own dream and calling. Listen to new episodes 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: of Get Real with Caroline Hobby every Monday on the 13 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: Nashville Podcast Network, available on I Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcast, 14 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcast. Hey guys, I'm Kaylie Short. 15 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: On my podcast, Too Much to Say, I share my 16 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: thoughts on everything for music to Martini's social media and 17 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: social anxiety, regrets to risky text and so much more. 18 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: I have been known to read my literal diary and 19 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: is on my show, and sometimes I do interviews with 20 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: my Crazy group of Friends. So if you guys want 21 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: to tune in, you can hear new episodes of Too 22 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: Much to Say every Wednesday on the National Podcast Network, 23 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: available on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or 24 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,919 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to him. Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic 25 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: and welcome to Election Week and a special bonus episode 26 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: of Turnout. This past weekend, on the cusp of the 27 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: presidential election, The New York Times published an unprecedented collection 28 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,919 Speaker 1: by the paper's opinion writers called What Have We Lost? 29 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: Fifteen essays on what the past four years have cost America? 30 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: From innocence, conservatism, allies, pride, and for my guests today, 31 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: David Brooks, Faith, you talk about the floor of decency 32 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: in your column. Explain what you mean by that. Yeah, 33 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: my view is the most at least modern presidents to politicians, 34 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: they understood there are certain standards of behavior you don't 35 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: sink below, and even may not like George Bush or 36 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: Barack Obama, but they tried to be decent and civil 37 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: and not be you know, talk about their hands size. 38 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 1: And to me, the crucial moment I write about in 39 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: that column was the Second Republican Debate, which was all 40 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: the way back in the primaries. I'm Jake Tapper. We're 41 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: live at the Ronald Reagan Library in Cindney Valley, California 42 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: for the main event, and Donald Trump had gone after 43 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: Carly Fiorina for the way she looks, and then he 44 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: turned to Rand Paul the Center from Kentucky and he said, 45 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: I never attacked him on his look And believe me, 46 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: there's plenty of subject matter right there. I want to 47 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: I want to give Trump Mr Trump, and I at 48 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: the right now that doesn't seem so shocking that Trump 49 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: has done way worse. But at the moment, I was like, 50 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: what is going on here? That we have a presidential 51 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: candidate who talks makes fun of people's looks. Uh, And 52 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 1: it got worse. But once you fall through the floor, 53 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: there's no bottom, and as a society, we're trying to 54 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: find a bottom. Well. I thought it was interesting you 55 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: write that people didn't seem to be morally repulsed by this, 56 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: and there was no rise up against this kind of behavior. 57 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: Peter Baker and I talked about how fragile these norms 58 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: are and they really require the key players in the 59 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: system to adhere to them. And why do you think 60 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: that that became acceptable and even praised in some quarters 61 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: that kind of language, that kind of derision. I think first, 62 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: there we've gotten used to a certain of reality TV. 63 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: We get get used to a certain level of crassness. Second, 64 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: people have such low expectations of their politicians that they 65 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: don't expect anything. And third, a lot of people feel 66 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: the elites of society are trying to control their thoughts 67 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: and speech with political correctness codes, and if somebody's going 68 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: to break through those codes, are like, yeah, I'm for that. 69 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: And so I'd say those three things for the main drivers. 70 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: Let's talk about elites versus everyone else. You know. Um, 71 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: you talk about these two armies, and one is sort 72 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: of college educated, you know, think of themselves as worldly 73 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: and sophisticated. The other people are less, perhaps educated, have 74 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: been left out of the American dream in many ways. 75 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: And there are two sides in polarization. Um, how did 76 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: we bring them together? And what could each side do better? Yeah? Well, first, UM, 77 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: we have a way to do this. It's called contact. Here, 78 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: you just bring people into contact with each other. And 79 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: I got the election way wrong, and so I spent 80 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: the next four years up until COVID going about thirty 81 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: five or forty states a year, just really traveling and 82 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: being with other. People would call it going to a bar. 83 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: I call it reporting. And so I'd said the talk 84 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: to people and and or breakfast diner. Uh. And I 85 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: learned so much. I learned that people who voted for Trump, 86 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: they're not all racists. There's a lot of complicated reasons 87 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: people voted for that guy and still vote for that guy. 88 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: I ran into a guy in South Dakota who said 89 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: the best day of my life. He was like seventy. 90 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: It was thirty five years ago. I got laid off 91 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: at my job because I didn't have the skills, and 92 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: I thought I would just slip out. And I opened 93 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: my office door and there were two rows of people 94 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: people the whole plants Um workforce with a double rows. 95 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 1: And he walked between them from his office door to 96 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: his car door in the parking lot as they applauded 97 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: and cheered him as he went, and he said, that 98 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: was my best job. That was the best day of 99 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: my life. Every job I've had since his worst. And 100 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: so I need to change. And so he was gonna 101 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: vote for Donald Trump. And everybody knew was going to 102 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: vote for Donald Trump. The communities are crumbling. I would 103 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: say that two things that each side can do. First, 104 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: the supporters of Trump can insist on honesty. You know 105 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: that we just gotta have rules of honesty. Second, those 106 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: of us in the more college educated class, we have 107 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: to persist in our efforts to get to know those people. 108 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: Four years ago we all read Jade Vance's book, and 109 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 1: so I'm gonna try to get to know them and 110 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: let me sort of stopped. And we often condescend. And 111 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: I'll say this as a media person like you. Obviously 112 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: you know of the mainstream media organizations, of the five 113 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: thousand people in them, how many of them are Trump supporters? 114 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: Very very few. And if you tell forty percent of 115 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: the country, your voice isn't worth hearing. But they're gonna 116 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: react badly. And so we needed to do a better 117 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: job of integration and content. How do you do that? Though, 118 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 1: when you say that he's busted through the floor of decency, 119 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: I mean it's a real conundrum I think for people 120 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: because they want to be fair and yet someone who 121 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: repeatedly lies and it seems to have crashed through that floor, 122 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: how do you stand up to that? So that's a 123 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: very difficult and trick you can to navigate, is it not? Yeah? 124 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: And even you know, I've been on shows where we've 125 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: had Trump supporters and they haven't behaved in a professional matter. 126 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: So I mean, we do have standards of professional our profession. 127 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: So that is a challenge of eventually you find some 128 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: But um, if breaking the norm is part of being 129 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: a Trump supporter, then how do you how do you 130 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: work and collaborate? That that is a genuine problem. But 131 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: hopefully if Trump loses, we can have Trump is m 132 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: without Trump, that the the ideas that couldn't they could 133 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: have created an administration out of of how to help 134 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: rural America, how to help industrial America. We can have 135 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: people who champion those ideas without the norm breaking behavior 136 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump. Do you think if if elected, Joe 137 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: Biden will champion those ideas and reach out to those 138 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: communities because it seems that they feel and I think 139 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: legitimately that they're not being heard or value. And I think, 140 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: I mean and fortuitously, he's I think the right man 141 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: for this moment because he comes from Scranton. He he 142 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: condescension is not a note I've ever seen him hit. 143 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: He doesn't do condescension and so he just I think 144 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: he fits in naturally and has a natural rapport with 145 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: people in working class communities that even Barack Obama did 146 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: not have, And so I think he's well fit for 147 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 1: this moment. Somebody just sent me a new ad he's 148 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 1: done that Bruce Springsteen narrates to his song My Hometown, 149 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: and it's about a guy from Scranton. And I do 150 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: think he's rooted in that these kind of small city 151 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: rural America and has an agenda which, if he's smart, 152 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: if he focuses an agenda that addresses the industrialization all 153 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: the places that am hurt because mills closed, then you 154 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: particularly hit two communities and hit them at the same 155 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: time with the same program, African Americans and rural whites. 156 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: And to have a program that unites those two groups 157 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: and helps them would be I think a great thing 158 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: for this country. I also think if he could focus 159 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: on retraining. You know, we've heard a lot about the 160 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: transition from fossil fuels to uh, you know, green energy, 161 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: and I think that terrifies people who think it means 162 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: they're going to lose their job. And I have never 163 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: understood why such a small percentage of GDP is really 164 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: focused on retraining individuals for the jobs of the future, 165 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: or at least getting us out of the model where 166 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: you have to go to college to have a good job. 167 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: Like community college or apprenticeship programs are just a more 168 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: effective way to give people the skills they need to 169 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: succeed the You know, we send so many people to 170 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: college and like percent of them get through, and so 171 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: we have a system that's failing the people. How can 172 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: we stick with that, Not to mention the exorbitant ca 173 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: must of college, which just does not seem to be 174 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: sustainable to me, right, that's for sure, and colleges are 175 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 1: now suffering. I don't know what's going to happen to 176 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: hire ed In the year's ED, let's talk about the 177 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: crisis of legitimacy. You cite a survey that says in 178 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, sixty four percent of Americans had a 179 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: good or great deal of trust in the wisdom of 180 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: their fellow Americans. Today it's only a third. What happened, 181 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: people took a look at each other's voting behaviors and 182 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: they said, oh, those people are not only wrong, they're 183 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: crazy or they're evil, And so they lost faith in 184 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: each other. To me, the scariest statistic is trust in 185 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: each other. Two generations ago. If you ask people out 186 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,839 Speaker 1: of the neighbors, are your neighbor's trustworthy? Say yes. Now 187 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: it's only and only of millennial in gen z. Younger 188 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 1: you go, the more distrusting people are because they've been 189 00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: betrayed by experience. And so when you lose. When church 190 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: loses faith in God, the church collapses. When a nation 191 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: loses faith in each other, the nation collapses. And somehow 192 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: restoring trust in each other is like the elemental chansk. 193 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: Joe Biden can win. But if we don't trust in 194 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: our society, if we can't work together, we're still in 195 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: deep trouble. We'll be back right after the short break. 196 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: Hey y'all, this is Caroline Hobby, the host of Get 197 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: Real with Caroline Hobby, Honest Women, Honest Talk. I love podcasting. 198 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: It is so much fun because I have the most 199 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: in depth, spiritual, soulful, real, honest conversations with women who 200 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: are mothers, who are entrepreneurs, who have started their own businesses, 201 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: who are married to celebrities, who are celebrities themselves. These 202 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: women are juggling motherhood, being a career woman, starting their 203 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: own businesses, taking leaps, knowing when to jump. These women 204 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: are incredible and the conversations are so real it will 205 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: hit every nerve in your body as a woman. A 206 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: little bit about myself, I was a country music artist 207 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: in a trio. I traveled the country open for every 208 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: celebrity you can imagine in country music. I also been 209 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: on The Amazing Race twice. And I'm married to Michael Hobby, 210 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: who is the lead singer of A Thousand Horses, and 211 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: we have our precious daughter, Sonny. Who's to Listen to 212 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: new episodes that Get Real with Caroline Hobby every Monday 213 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: on the Nashville Podcast Network, available on the I Heart 214 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcast. Hi, 215 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: I'm Robert sex Reese, host of The Doctor Sex re Show, 216 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: and every episode I listened to people talk about their 217 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: sex and intimacy issues, and yes, I despise every minute 218 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: of it. And she she made mistakes too, everyone at 219 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: her wedding. But hell is real. We're all trapped here 220 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: and there's nothing any of us can do about it. 221 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: So join me, won't you? Listen to The Doctor Sex 222 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: re Show every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app 223 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: Apple podcast or where ever you get your podcast. Executive 224 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: producer Paris Hilton brings back the hit podcast How Men Think, 225 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: and that's good news for anyone that is confused by men, 226 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: which is basically everyone get an inside look at what 227 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: goes on in the mind of men from the men themselves. 228 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: It's real talk, straight from the source. How Men Think 229 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: podcast is exactly what we need to figure them out. 230 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: It's going to be fun and formative and probably a 231 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: bit scary at times because we're literally going inside the 232 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: minds of men. As much as we like to think 233 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: all men are the same, they're actually very different. Each week, 234 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: a celebrity guest host provides honest advice in his area 235 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: of expertise. When I agreed to do this reboot, I 236 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: had a few conditions. No sugarcoating, no mind games, and 237 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: absolutely no man splaining. Men are hard enough to understand 238 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: without the mind games. Listen to How Men Think on 239 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or where where 240 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Let's return to this special bonus 241 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: episode of Turnout with my guest New York Times columnists 242 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: David Brooks. Why is this election such a pivotal moment 243 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: in our nation's history. I think we're at one of 244 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: those moral convulsion moments that happens about every sixty years. 245 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: From seventeen seventies we had one, the eighteen thirties, Andrew Jackson, 246 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: the eight nineties progressive era. In nineteen sixties, holcol culture 247 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: just suddenly shifts. You get a moment where you get 248 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: a lot of indignation. People are disgusted with the state 249 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: of society. A new generation comes down the scene, new 250 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: communications technology, and suddenly the whole country just shifts ideas 251 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: and it shifts culture. And I think we're at one 252 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: of those inflection points where we either decide to be 253 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: a diverse society or not. We either decided to be 254 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: an equal society or not. And so these elemental questions 255 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: are on the table. You have said, this is the 256 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: result fifty years of social decay. How so, Well, if 257 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: you look at society in the nineteen fifties, we had 258 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: a lot of problems. We had racism, we had sexism, 259 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: we had a lot of anti semitism, but we did 260 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: have a lot of cohesion. We had very low income inequality, 261 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: we had very low political polarization, we had a lot 262 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: of people really active in their communities, a lot of 263 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: people with a stable emotional bases. And over the last 264 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: fifty years, we've had a culture of me, of culture 265 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: of I want to be free to be myself. And 266 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: that's been great, and we've made a lot of progress, 267 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: especially on race and gender and other issues. But we've 268 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: torn apart this the connections between people, and so now 269 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: you have more loneliness, more distrust, more isolation, more suicide 270 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: rates a third, more depression. And so people, when you 271 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: make them feel lonely and alienated, they're gonna do what 272 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: their evolutionary routes tell them to do. They're going to 273 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: revert to tribe. And they've reverted to political tribes. And 274 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: now we don't really see issues. We just say what 275 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: what army am I part of? And that's just been 276 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: a horrible thing for our country. And let's talk about 277 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: that some more, David. So, our our basic sense of 278 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: belonging has now translated into our political ideology and identity, 279 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: and and why is that so damaging for our society? 280 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: Because it's asking more of politics, and politics can bear 281 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: Politics that's best is a competition between partial truths. Republicans 282 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: believe in freedom, Democrats believe in equality, and we need 283 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: to somehow find balance between those two things. Uh. And 284 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: it's about policies, it's about designing a health care system 285 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: that will actually work for people. But we've turned it 286 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: into our ethnicity. My ethnicity is being a Republican or 287 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: a Democrat. It's not being Polish American or Italian American 288 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: or somebody from Ballast or a member of this church. 289 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: It's politics. And when you turn politics into your ethnicity, 290 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: than any compromises dish honor. You're dishonoring your ethnicis. And 291 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: so when you ask so much of politics, you turn 292 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: politics into this war of all against wall where there's 293 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: no compromise. I mean, it's not really that satisfying. If 294 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: you devote yourself to your community and your faith in 295 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: your family, these are actually emotionally satisfying things. The things 296 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: that are bringing us together are the things that we hate, 297 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: not the things that we love. Yeah, and it's important 298 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: to make the distinction between tribalism and community. And community 299 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: is mutual love of a thing. Tribalism is mutual hate 300 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: of another. And so it feels first the community, but 301 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: it's more like an addiction than an actual relationship. What 302 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: can be done about this loneliness and isolation that has 303 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: prompted people to take these sides or join these armies. Yeah, well, 304 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: in my view, it would help if we weren't being 305 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: ripped a part on a data bay basis from the 306 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: top of our society, so that that answers political But 307 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: to me, this kind of isolation and loneliness can only 308 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: be helped by at local level, at relationships, and by 309 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: forming groups and getting active in groups, active in community organizations, 310 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: active in neighborhood organizations. You know, I was became a 311 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: member of an extended group about six years ago, forty 312 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: kids from d C who were like twenty and about 313 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: eight of us who were older, and we had dinner 314 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: every Thursday night for for five years, and we really 315 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: got into each other's business and we learned to trust 316 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 1: one another and we became sort of a chosen family, 317 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: a forged family. And that's that's how I found community, 318 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: and I think everybody tries to find something like that. 319 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: Do you think that the pandemic in some ways has 320 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: added fuel to this partisan fire because people don't have 321 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: enough to do and enough places to go in, enough 322 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: activities to participate in. If we become it's increased the polarization. Yeah, 323 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: I super felt that we underestimate the emotional toll this 324 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: has taken on us, Like just the pleasure of going 325 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: to a club and watching music. It's a lot of 326 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: pleasures have suddenly denied us. And then we're we're stuck 327 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: looking at each other, the Twitter version of each other, 328 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: not the real version of each other. And so you've 329 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: seen the shocking rising depression. There was a poll out 330 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: about the middle of this year where they ask people, 331 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: have you young adults have you contemplated suicide in the 332 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: last thirty days? Like a third hat And so we're 333 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: just living at a time of tremendous just emotional stress, 334 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: and it's showing up in all sorts of ways, especially 335 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: in politics. Can we talk about identity politics and how 336 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: that has prohibited both a conversation about policy that allows 337 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: for nuance and an environment that also allows for compromise. Yeah, 338 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: I mean, if your identity is it stay, is its 339 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: stake at your policy positions, then if you feel your 340 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: identity threatened every moment and you can't compromise, and so 341 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: if your identity is based somewhere else, then you're not 342 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: at stake. You're not at risk of annihilation. Uh. The 343 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: other thing that I think has been worrying recently, we're 344 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: being not very cheerful. But will trul um is just 345 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: the idea that we can't really communicate with each other. 346 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: I can never really understand your experience, and you can 347 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: never really understand mine. We can't understand each other across difference. 348 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 1: And I have great faith in reciprocal dialogue and conversation, 349 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: in what you've spent your career doing, interviewing people like that. 350 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: When I was on this trip to understand the world 351 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: and Trump voters, I really became convinced the interview. It's 352 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: such a blessing on our profession. The interview is what 353 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: helps us make contact with each other and learn about 354 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: each other. And if we don't do that, and a 355 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: lot of people don't, then you just don't know. You 356 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: just don't know. And you can do all the academics 357 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: sociological data you want, but if you don't do the interview, 358 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: you don't know. And it's all punditry now, it's all uh, 359 00:20:55,800 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: commentary and punditry. And it distresses me that people aren't 360 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: going out and talking to regular people. I mean, when 361 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: is the last time you saw that except for the 362 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: pro forma you know din our conversation during the primaries 363 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: right now, I agree that don't not punetrate it to 364 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: living Uh but um, yeah, no, I I you know, 365 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: I wrote sixteen columns saying, don't worry, don't worry, Donald 366 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: Trump will never get the Republican nomination. And at the time, 367 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: I was working for The New York Times, living in 368 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: Washington and teaching at Yale. So I was in the 369 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: cell in my whole life. So like, how can I 370 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: get out of touch with America with those three things? 371 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: So so I had to break out and spend time 372 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: with people. And and now I I have a fair 373 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: number of friends and even close family members who were 374 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: supporting Donald Trump. And it's been useful because so many 375 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: of them are super confident's gonna win. And but it's 376 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: just been useful to hear the arguments here, the points 377 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: of view which are not not the simple obvious ones 378 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: that we assigned to those people. When we come back, 379 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: what are we going to do with all this anger 380 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: we have? Raffie is the voice of some of the 381 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: happiest songs of our generation. Baby, So who is the 382 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: man behind Baby bluga. Every human being wants to feel respected. 383 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: When we start with young, all good things can grow 384 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: from there. I'm Chris Garcia, comedian, new Dad and host 385 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: of Finding Raffie, a new podcast from My Heart Radio 386 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: and Fatherly. Listen every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio 387 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm 388 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: Kaylie Shore. I'm a singer songwriter in Nashville, Tennessee, and 389 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: I host a podcast called Too Much to Say, which 390 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: is very aptly titled. I write songs most of the time, 391 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: but I can't keep my feelings to three minutes in 392 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: thirty seconds. So to have whole podcast, it's just amazing. 393 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: So I share stories from my music career, my childhood. 394 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 1: I've been known to read diary entries, play unreleased songs. 395 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: But no matter what I'm doing, I'm sharing a strong 396 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: opinion I have on something. So I share my thoughts 397 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: on everything from music to Martini's social media, to social 398 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: anxiety regrets, to risky texts, and so much more. Sometimes 399 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: I even have some really special guests on to share 400 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: their craziness and what they have too much to say about, 401 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: So you guys can listen to new episodes of Too 402 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: Much to Say every Wednesday on the Nashville Podcast Network, 403 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: available on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or 404 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your popular every I'm John Gonzalez, 405 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: the host of Sports Illustrated Weekly. Sports Illustrated has delivered 406 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: the best storytelling in sports for seventy years, first in 407 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: the pages of the magazine, then on SI dot com, 408 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: and now that tradition continues on a new podcast. Each week, 409 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: We'll dive deep into the best stories from around the 410 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: sports world. We'll ask the questions that we're all wondering 411 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: and push for the answers we all want. Everything from 412 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: investigating the Super Bowl's impact on l A to examining 413 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: white booing is as big a part of the fan 414 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: experience as cheering. Sports Illustrated Weekly is here to bring 415 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: you the entertaining tales you can't get anywhere else, the 416 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: kinds of stories that make you smile and laugh, clap 417 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: and cry, marvel, think and fall in love with sports 418 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: all over again. Sports Illustrated Weekly is available every Wednesday 419 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 420 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Subscribe. Now, let's talk about wokeness, 421 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: because I like this quote and you say, it's partly 422 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: about fighting oppression, but it's also become a status symbol. 423 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: It's showing people that you are so intellectually involved that 424 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: you can use words like interceptionality, decolonizing, and cultural appropriation, 425 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: political correct Witness is not just a means for the 426 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: less privilege to set standards of behavior. It is sometimes 427 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: the way people with cultural power push others around. How 428 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: can the left listen to the silent majority rather than 429 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: patronize them. How do we find a national discourse? Yeah, 430 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: I mean it's people take advantage of the power they have. 431 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: And wokenness is a movement that emerged out the universities, 432 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: and it comes thick with university jargon. It comes thick 433 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: with the belief that all words are power and you 434 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: can't have a conversation. I'm just asserting my power with 435 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: my words, and therefore my words need to be controlled. 436 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: And that's me is wrong. Words are not power. Words 437 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: are mutual explorations to find ways to live together and 438 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: be friends. Uh. And so the impulse to sensor words 439 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: and use the power of your cultural position to silence 440 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: others is not only in the universities, not only in 441 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: the media. It's widespread. There was a study Americans say 442 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: they're afraid to state their political opinions for fear that 443 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: other people will shout them down. That's a lot of people. 444 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: That's the majority of Americans who are afraid to be honest. 445 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: And so I my friends, and I obviously I'm a 446 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: New York Times columnists. I'm in the precincts of cultural power, 447 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: and a lot of people in those precincts don't appreciate 448 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: how much power they have, and how like all power, 449 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: it can corrupt you, and you can abuse it, and 450 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: we abuse it when we try to use it to 451 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: shout down and silence others. But don't you think the 452 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: right wing is just as guilty. I mean, uh, you know, 453 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 1: I I don't see many people going on Fox feeling 454 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: comfortable expressing a different point of view. Oh no, they're 455 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: super right wing wokeness just as well. Let people get 456 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: canceled on the right for not totally being with Donald Trump, 457 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: for having some opinion, or you know, for being for 458 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 1: gay marriage. I mean, there's um there wherever these days, 459 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: there's um wokenness, or whether there's political extremism, there's intolerance 460 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: of difference. And I do think there's woken us on 461 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: the right just as much as unlashed. I also am 462 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: concerned that people can have a nuanced position that they 463 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: can't support black lives matter and want to get to 464 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: the root of systemic racism, but also appreciate what good 465 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: police officers do and yet also see the need for 466 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: police reform. It seems to me you have to pick 467 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: one side or the other when you know all things 468 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: may be true. Yeah, and I've admired Joe Biden for this, 469 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: for saying, yes, we have systemic racism, but America is 470 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: still a very lovely country. Yes we want to black 471 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: lives matter, but we also need some law and orders. 472 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 1: So these are false binaries, and I think he's done 473 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: a good job. There was a student group at University 474 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: of Wisconsin this week who I think they took down 475 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: the statue of Abraham Lincoln or they did something to 476 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: cancel Abraham Lincoln. Like, you can take two things at 477 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 1: once about Lincoln. One, by our standards, his views on 478 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 1: race work not evolved, not correct. But you can also 479 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: realize that I gave his life to end slaver. Uh 480 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: So he just tremendous good and over the course of 481 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: his life, and you should be able to have both 482 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: those things in your mind at the same time. And 483 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,719 Speaker 1: the same thing is happening to Thomas Jefferson, who established 484 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: my alma mater, the University of Virginia. There's a culture 485 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: war of sorts erupting there, with people feeling like he 486 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: should not be sort of the patron saint of the university, 487 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: somebody to be idolized. And there are those who say, 488 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: you know, don't mess with Jefferson, right. Yeah. My role 489 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: on that is we should cancel somebody if the main 490 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: thing they're known for is disgraceful. So yeah, there was 491 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: a Calhoun College, right. I did a whole thing on this, 492 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: and that was the determination what is the primary accomplishment 493 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: of that individual? And for c. Calhoun, it really was 494 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: perpetuating slavery, right, And Jefferson's writing The Decoration of Independence 495 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: being president. And the difficult case is UM Washington and 496 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: Lee University. Uh really yeah, well, very fine school. I 497 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: love love I've been there many times. I love that place. 498 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: My view is Lee Washington. Lee became Washington League because 499 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: Roberty Lee became president of the college after the Civil War, 500 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: So maybe they're celebrating him for that, but other things 501 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: like it. Virginia Military Institute right next door, they just 502 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: took down the statue of Stonewall Jackson, and maybe that's legit. 503 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: It's it's tough for them because he was the great 504 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: hero and he led the students of b M I 505 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: out to battle. But maybe that's that stuff is a 506 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: little shit. I I um my view as the statues, 507 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: the Confederate statues, some of them should come down, but 508 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: mostly we should just prep other statues statues that Memora 509 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: Memora memorialize those who are victims of lynch, who led 510 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: the fight for reconstruction, for abolition, for civil rights, that 511 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: both to see them contextualized a little more than towards now. 512 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: I know that's one option. I sort of feel that 513 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: they should be taken down if they're in a prominent position, 514 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: because to me, statues in public spaces telegraph the values 515 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: of that community. So I think it's kind of hard 516 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: to have both. But I I take your point because 517 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: I know some people feel that way. I think they 518 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: should belong in museums and be explained as a really 519 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: critical part of our history, but not necessarily as the 520 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: centerpiece of the community. Yeah, I see that where I 521 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: live in Washington. See, I'm right near a thing called 522 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: Lincoln Park, and there's a statue which was put up 523 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: by former slaves of Lincoln towards Lincoln in homage of them. 524 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: But it's him standing over a kneeling African American slave 525 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: who's breaking free. The first time I saw that, I thought, 526 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: what is that doing? They're like, why is the African 527 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: Raican guy kneeling in Lincoln's But it was It was 528 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: put up by uh And I've had long debates with 529 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: people in the park about that statue, And at first 530 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,959 Speaker 1: I thought, well, it was an historical moment. Frederick Douglas 531 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: did a very famous speech right there. Um, but I 532 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: think it's probably going to museum. Maybe. Your colleague Morning 533 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: Down wrote about how it's exhausting to be this outraged 534 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: all the time, and we do seem to be in 535 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: a permanent state of anger and outrage, lashing out of 536 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: people who probably have much more in common with us 537 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: than we realized. And you say, permanent indignation is not 538 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: a healthy emotional state. How do we deescalate this anger 539 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: and how do we prevent this from being our default emotion? 540 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: Because it seems like it's been this way for quite 541 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: a while now. Yeah, Well, I mean, if Biden wins, 542 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: he's just less outrageous than Donald Trump, whatever you think 543 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: of his views. And he's what really struck me as 544 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: remember that a couple of weeks ago they both had 545 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: town halls at the same time, and you knew going 546 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: in that Biden's was going to be more boring than Trump's, 547 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: and indeed it was. But more people watch Bidens than 548 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: watch Trumps. And that said to me that people are 549 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: ready for a little bored, a little bored I'm a 550 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: little normal political discussion, and I do think a if 551 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: Biden wins, we wanted to think about the presidency all 552 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: the time and be frankly, for a lot of us, 553 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: it's easy clickbait to just outrage about Trump all the time, 554 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: and maybe politics will be less central and we can 555 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: go I like, I prefer writing about culture than I 556 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: do to politics, but I can't do that now because 557 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: people only read one subdact, which is politics. So I'd 558 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: love to be able to go back and write about 559 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: cultural stuff and moral stuff and emotional stuff. And I 560 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: think we were all just blood pressure would just go down. 561 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: I thought we could talk a little bit about weavers 562 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: and what you're doing with that. Yeah, weavers are people 563 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: who are at the local level building community that One 564 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: of them, for example, is again Ponchoguilas who uh he 565 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: takes a documented immigrants who have broken their backs, have 566 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: been paralyzed by construction accidents, and he gives them wheelchairs 567 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: and diapers and catheters so they can lead lives with dignity. 568 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: And then he organized and they all become a social workers. 569 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: So you'll be in a neighborhood and fifty Latino guys 570 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: and wheelchairs will roll in your neighborhood to do good 571 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: work for you. Uh. And so those people are everywhere 572 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: we go, you know. At the We've project, we go 573 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: around the country. We land in a little town McCook, Nebraska, Wilkes, 574 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: North Carolina, and we say who's trusted here, And immediately 575 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: we find seventy people, five people who are just loved 576 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: their town and they want to serve it, and they do. 577 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: And what we We've do is we try to lift 578 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: them up, maybe give them some resources, connecting with each other, 579 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: make them more powerful figures in our society so we 580 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: can all sort of copy them a little. David how 581 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: can Trump supporters and Biden supporters learn to respect one another? Yeah, 582 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: repeating back to each other what we believe, Like, here's 583 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: why I tell me if I'm right, here's why, I 584 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: think you believe what you believe, And and just having 585 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: a conversation that way have people basically want respect and 586 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people feel invisible. When I would go 587 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: to the Midwest years ago, once a week i'd hear, 588 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: oh you guys, regardless as fly over country, and then 589 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: two years ago that I heard that eight times a day. 590 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: People just don't feel seen. They feel they're ignored and 591 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: look down upon. And if you you know by I 592 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: think you show respect to Trump voters and who follow you. 593 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: And that's the first step, is showing basic respect. And 594 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: of course we're going to disagree that that's called democracy, 595 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 1: but we disagreeing with a show of affection and respect 596 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: and with a sense that we all do love the 597 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: same country. Uh. And I think a lot of people 598 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: are voting for Trump are afraid that we don't all 599 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: love the same country. We don't all love our country, 600 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: and some people just want to run it down and 601 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,359 Speaker 1: change it. Uh. And I think combined again, it's done 602 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: a good job of saying, Hey, I love America. This 603 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: is the America is my country, and if we have 604 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:09,280 Speaker 1: that mutual affection, then we have some up income. Hey listeners, 605 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 1: I'll be back in just a few days with my 606 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: post election episode of Turnout. In the meantime, I'd love 607 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: to hear your voting story, whether you voted early in person, 608 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: sent in your mail in ballot, or are planning to 609 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: vote on election day. Tell me what your experience was 610 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: like and how it felt good or bad. You can 611 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: call eight four four or seven nine seven eight eight 612 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,479 Speaker 1: three and leave your name in a short thirty second 613 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,760 Speaker 1: message and we may share it on an upcoming episode. Again, 614 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: that number is eight four four four seven nine seven 615 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 1: eight eight three, Happy Voting Everyone. Turnout is a production 616 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 1: of I Heart Media and Katie Couric Media. The executive 617 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: producers are Katie Curic and Courtney Litz. Supervising producers Lauren Hansen, 618 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,880 Speaker 1: Associate producers Darre Clements, Eliza Costas and Emily Pento. Editing 619 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 1: by Derrick Clements and Lauren Hansen. Mixing by Derrick Clements. 620 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: Our researcher is Gabriel Loser and special thanks to my 621 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: right hand woman, Adriana Fasio. You can follow me in 622 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: all my election coverage at Katie Curry. Meanwhile, yes, I'm 623 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: Katie Curry. Thanks so much for listening everyone. We'll see 624 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: you next time. Hi, my name is Lindsay Louis. Cal 625 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: Hope is here for you with free mental health resources. 626 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: Go to cal Hope dot org To chat with a 627 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,800 Speaker 1: live person, call their warmline at one eight three three Hope. 628 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: From Calvary Audio comes the new true crime podcast, The 629 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: Shadow Girls. I grew up near the banks of the 630 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: Green River and in the shadow of the killer that 631 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 1: bears its name. Prosecutors described him as a serial killer. 632 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,280 Speaker 1: But this podcast isn't only about tracking down the killer. 633 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: It's about the victims. We stayed in the woods. He 634 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 1: always like to go into words. Listen to The Shadow 635 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: Girls on the I Heart Radio app, on Apple Podcasts, 636 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,399 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Amy Brown 637 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 1: from Four Things with Amy Brown on the Nashville Podcast Network. 638 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: A podcast where in each episode you're gonna get at 639 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,359 Speaker 1: least four things that will hopefully contribute to your life 640 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: in a positive way. Guests come on like celebrities or therapists, 641 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 1: were doctors, so maybe even just my friends and everyone 642 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: shares stories that may inspire, motivate, or sometimes just give 643 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: you a much needed laugh. We cover topics that range 644 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: from therapy to gratitude. Listen to four Things with Amy 645 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: Brown on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or 646 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts.