1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: Body bats, but Joseph's gotten more. It's kind of interesting 2 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: the world that we live in and the spaces that 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: we inhabit. Items within our homes or maybe our work 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: environment become utilized for something other than what they may 5 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: have been intended to be used for. Now, I'm thinking 6 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: about places that I've gone as a death investigator, where 7 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: I've gone to a woodworkers shop and a bandsaw, for instance, 8 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: was used to dismember a body, or maybe digging under 9 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: the sink at a home, and I find ant poisoning, 10 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: and that same ant poisoning was used poison Strike that 11 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: in three two, and that same ant poison was used 12 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: to kill a lady at the hands of her husband. 13 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: Some things just seem kind of innocuous. For instance, I 14 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: don't know about you guys, but I do like a 15 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: good cold beverage every now and then. I like walking 16 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: into my tiny, little galley style style kitchen. Kim and 17 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: I live in a very small home, popping up my 18 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: refrigerator and getting my jug of water out or iced 19 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: tea or maybe an adult beverage. You don't normally think 20 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 1: of a refrigerator being used as a coffin, but today 21 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: we are going to have that discussion because there is 22 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: a case that originates out of New Jersey that caught 23 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 1: the attention of both myself and my buddy Dave Mack, 24 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: and we wanted to have, as the British say, a 25 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: chin wag about it. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this 26 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: is body bags, Dave. I've currently got a refrigerator that 27 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: I don't like. I will not mention the brand name 28 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: because it came with the house when we purchased the 29 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: house several years ago, but to say that it is 30 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: less than superior equipment would be an insult to other 31 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: types of equipment. I don't know that the ice maker 32 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: has ever accurately worked. And every time you open the 33 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: actual door for the freezer, ice falls out, falls out, 34 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, and it goes out from time to time. 35 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: It throws us codes up, you know, the little weird 36 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: codes that don't and I don't have an owner's manual 37 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: for it. 38 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, Joe, you have a refrigerator that has digital readout 39 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: and computer stuff. At some point in time, you go, 40 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: where's the cold button? You know? I just need I 41 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 2: need my ice over here, I need my milk over here. 42 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: We're good, Yeah, Yeah, I don't need it to fix 43 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: a drink for me. I don't need it to prepare dinner. 44 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: I just want you to keep my stuff cold. It's 45 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: kind of like the theory that I have about so 46 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: called dishwashers. Dishwashers are not technically dishwashers. They're dish heater 47 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: uppers and dishwetters and other than that. You know, it's 48 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: kind of a slotting scale, I guess. But I've never 49 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: encountered a really good dishwasher. I guess the best dishwasher 50 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: is me, you know, beending able to sink and using 51 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: a scrub brush. 52 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 2: So if you are looking for something universal appliance wise 53 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: the size of an appliance, the refrigerator slash freezer would 54 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: be much easier to use as a homemade casket than 55 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: the dishwasher would be, just because of the length. But anymore, 56 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 2: with all the stories we have these days about people 57 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: being hacked up, chopped up, and disposed of, I guess 58 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: the dishwasher could work for that well. But today we 59 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: have one of these stories that as I was trying 60 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 2: to build a timeline Joe, there were a couple of 61 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: issues that kept popping up, and I still haven't resolved 62 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 2: some of them. But bottom line always being the bottom line. 63 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: We have a woman named Lauren Hughes, Laura Hughes rather 64 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: and Laura goes missing and they start looking for her 65 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 2: because she doesn't normally just disappear. Can't find her. Now 66 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 2: we're talking September, October, November, finally December twenty second rolls 67 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 2: around and there's a man named John Tyrrell and John 68 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 2: is faced with a dilemma Joe. He is in New Jersey, 69 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: out in the woods, which is so weird. When you 70 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: think of New Jersey, I don't think of woods. I 71 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: just don't. I think of cities, and you know, pollution 72 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 2: because of how the reputation of the state. But the 73 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: state of New Jersey has a lot of beautiful area 74 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: that it does. It's like the hidden logy and the. 75 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,559 Speaker 1: Wargest places that people don't think about. 76 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: Right, And John Tyrrell is out in the woods and 77 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 2: he stumbles upon an abandoned refrigerator in the middle of 78 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 2: the Bellplaine State Forest in Cape May, New Jersey. Now 79 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: he doesn't exactly know that it's a refrigerator. It is 80 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 2: something that is the size of a refrigerator, but it's 81 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 2: wrapped up. Okay, it's got a blanket or something around. 82 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 2: It's got tied down with straps. I mean, something has 83 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 2: been secured inside this refrigerator size thing. And hey, man, 84 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 2: you're in the woods by yourself. What are you gonna do. 85 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: You're gonna look at it, right, You're gonna look see 86 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: what's in there. Somebody getched it out here. So he 87 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 2: opens it up and immediately calls police because of what 88 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 2: he saw inside. And I'm thinking December twenty second in 89 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 2: New Jersey in the wood. It's gonna be cold, right. 90 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: This guy was breaking out in a sweat, Joe when 91 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 2: he saw what was inside that refrigerator. It appears to 92 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 2: be our victim today, and we're talking about a woman 93 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 2: who has been missing and apparently found, Laura hughes. 94 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: By. 95 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 2: Joe, you always tell me to think about the finder. 96 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 2: The finder in this case actually gets charged with obstruction. 97 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 98 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: Now, if you're an innocent finder of something in the 99 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: middle of the woods and the police ask you, hey, 100 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: let's see your phone for a minute, you know, and 101 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 2: you say, no, you can't look at my phone, which 102 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 2: is exactly what happened. So John Terrell is the trirel 103 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: is the finder and uh, the first person charged in 104 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: this case. He won't turn his cell phone over to police. 105 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: You're going to jail. Yeah, that's anybody out there that 106 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: if they're trying to give you a feel sobriety test 107 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: and they refuse, You know, you have attorneys that say, 108 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: don't don't comply. Well never, You're right, you don't have 109 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: to comply, you really don't. But guess what you're going 110 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: You're going to get a free ride somewhere in bracelets. 111 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: Yeah it is, and they're going to do it, but 112 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: you know that you don't want to. In this case, 113 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: they know that the man has found the body, and 114 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: they know that let's just look at it, Okay. The 115 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: cops know from the beginning that obviously this is not 116 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: some kind of accidental event where she happened to fall 117 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: into a refrigerator and it got you know, uh, strapped 118 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: down with these mechanical strap and yeah, and wrapped up. 119 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 2: There's not a really innocent explanation for this, Joe. 120 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. They know. They know from Jump Street that they're 121 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: dealing with a very highly suspicious death and there's a 122 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: high likelihood even if you can't which they couldn't by 123 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: the way determine what the cause of death was. They 124 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: know that they've probably got a homicide on their hands here, 125 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: and if they allow this guy to bolt and they 126 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: don't get that data from him immediately, it could be 127 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: you know, lost forever and ever. And how many of 128 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: these cases have we covered and Nancy's covered where the 129 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: digital data nowadays, in particular, it's going to be the 130 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: tail of the tape in these cases where you can 131 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: go back and say, Okay, this guy, he's got an alibi, 132 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: he was in this location he's never been. I don't know, 133 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: for instance, the home address of Laura that you know 134 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 1: they've had no previous contact. There's no digital signature here 135 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: that would indicate that they're texting back and forth. They 136 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 1: don't even know. Maybe they don't even know one another 137 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: on social media, if this guy even on social media. 138 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: And look, I understand privacy. You don't want somebody digging 139 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: around in your phone and you don't know if you're 140 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: going to get it back either you know they're going 141 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: to give it to you or they're going to hold 142 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: it forever and ever. Amen is evidence, and we're so 143 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: tied to these things. I just I got to tell 144 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: you this on a side. I just had to jump 145 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: on my class. I was teaching intro to Forensics and 146 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: it's a big class that I've got in there. And 147 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: just today, even though I've said it over and over again, 148 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: you know, I looked out over the audience there and 149 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: I got kids that are texting while I'm lecturing. They've 150 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: only got me for fifty five minutes, and you can't 151 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: put your phone down long enough to listen to what 152 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: I have to say. And so it's you deal with that? 153 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 1: How do you deal with that? 154 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 2: Joe? I'm really curious as to that because you're in college. 155 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, I could say you embarrass them, 156 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: you know, uh, and you say, you know, are you 157 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: incapable of functioning out your without your phone? But it's 158 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: there's a callus that's built up now at this point. 159 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: They don't care, So you know, you could you know, 160 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: I could take all the phones up. I guess if 161 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: I wanted to, I probably couldn't do that. I know 162 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: that they do that like in high schools and things 163 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: like that. You could say you're going to take points off, 164 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: but you know that gets after that gets rather tedious 165 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: after a while. You know what I'm saying, but anyway, 166 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: my point, my point is is that you know, these 167 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: phones are so much part and parcel of our lives. 168 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: I'm not defending the guy, but just to understand, we 169 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: live in an almost totally cashless society. So think about 170 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: taking somebody's phone away now. Nowadays, there are people that 171 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: pay for their gas with their phone, people that pay 172 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: for groceries, going out to restaurants, going to the doctor. 173 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: You use your phone to pay with it, you know. 174 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: And I'm sure that there's some kind of digital driver's 175 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: licenses out there as well. I don't know. I think 176 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: i'd heard something about that, but we're almost completely moved 177 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: away from anything that's analog at this point. 178 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 2: No, that's a great point, and I'm thinking, right off 179 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 2: the top of my head, a case you and I 180 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 2: have covered with on here end with Nancy, the case 181 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 2: of Mattisoto in Florida, because the first thing they did 182 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 2: before charging her, Stephan Stearns with her abduction and murder, 183 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 2: they got his phone, and remember the first thing he 184 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 2: did was try to delete everything on it, but there 185 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: was still enough on there that they were able to 186 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 2: charge him based on his phone before they found her body. 187 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 2: They knew, okay, we got him in. 188 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: This particular factory resetts. 189 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 2: I think, oh yeah, yeah, oh, I accidentally did a 190 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 2: factory reset, which, by the way, you can't accidentally do 191 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: just saying, but in this case, we got the finder. 192 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 2: And I agree with you there when it comes to 193 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 2: a dui and not doing this the side of the 194 00:11:54,240 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 2: road sobriety test. Look, you're giving them evidence chances if 195 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 2: you're taking the roadside sobriety test. I've never seen anybody 196 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 2: pass that. They take you downtown and have you blow. Anyway. 197 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 2: You can refuse the roadside. You cannot refuse the breathalyzer. 198 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 2: If you refuse the breathalyzer, you immediately lose your license 199 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 2: for a certain period of time depending on the state 200 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 2: you live in. But you can refuse the roadside and 201 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 2: say just take me down and let me blow. You 202 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 2: don't get in trouble for that. But in this case, 203 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 2: you're right. They ask for his phone and he says no. Now, 204 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 2: we don't know what's on his phone, but I guarantee 205 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 2: you a couple of things if you deny the police 206 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: your phone. And you just found a dead body in 207 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 2: the woods that has been wrapped up in a well, 208 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 2: inside of a refrigerator that is wrapped in a sleeping 209 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 2: bag and a yoga matt all that is rolled up 210 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 2: trying to disguise this dead body inside of this refrigerator. 211 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: And you deny them your phone, they're going to get 212 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 2: your phone anyway, They're going to get a search warrant, 213 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 2: and now you're not getting it back. So just laying 214 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 2: it out there that maybe I'm not trying to give 215 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 2: criminals any kind of a hint, but for crying out loud, 216 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 2: maybe we got to become less a phone dependent, you know, because. 217 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: That's a bridge too far at this point. The damage 218 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: is done at this point. Yeah, but yeah, And so 219 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: when we think about Laura's body out there and that 220 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: abandoned actually quite beautiful area of the state of New 221 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: Jersey near Cape May, we begin to think about what 222 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: brought her to that location, how did she get there, 223 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: and how did she get there being conveyed in a 224 00:13:47,480 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: household of clients. David, I'm reminded right now of a 225 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: conversation you and I were just having, I think this 226 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: past week. Folks that don't know David and I don't 227 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 1: just show up and chat on tapings of Buddy Backs 228 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: we can't get enough of each other. We'll call and 229 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: just chat, you know, about life in general, kids and 230 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: grandkids and all the sorts of things and things that 231 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: we see in the news. Obviously in planning shows. But 232 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: we were having a conversation the other day. I don't 233 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: know if you remember this, but we were actually talking 234 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: about the word coffin versus casket. 235 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: You know, you said it at the beginning of the show. 236 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 2: I thought, heyst. 237 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: Well, I got to tell you. You know, they're saying they're 238 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: saying that this refrigerator, and I said, as well, you know, 239 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: the refrigerator is like a makeshift casket, and there is 240 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: a significant difference between coffin's and caskets. Anytime I think coffin, 241 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: I think of, first off, vampires because of the way 242 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: they're shaped. I also think of, perhaps, you know, something 243 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: that has to do with a very formal funeral. Because 244 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: of the way coffins are shaped. They they're actually six sided, 245 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: and you know, unlike a casket, which is rectangular, it's 246 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: it's foresighted. And you know, when when you look at 247 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: a refrigerator, you look at a refrigerator, I guess you 248 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: could say that that's more casket like than it is 249 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: coffin like my I think one of my questions is 250 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: is that if she is found inside and this is 251 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: Laura by the way, if she is found inside of 252 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: this refrigerator, I don't know about you, but how the 253 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: heck did somebody manage this thing? They did they have 254 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: a dolly that they could strap or I mean, I've 255 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: moved refrigerators with dollies. You know, you can run them 256 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: at U haul, you know, if you're going to be 257 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: going down the road and you want to take your 258 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: appliances with you, and yeah, it's it can be a 259 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: one man job, but it's it's very cumbersome. In order 260 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: to facilitate that, you know who, who would did the 261 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: individual that put them in there? Did they have a dolly? 262 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: Or did they have help? Because you're not going to 263 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: throw this thing up on your back. I guess you 264 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: could in some way drag it maybe if you had carpet, 265 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: if you could do it in a sequestered manner so 266 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: that no one would see you do it. But in 267 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: order to really take eyes off of this thing, anything 268 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: that you're going to do, you're going to have to 269 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: do it in privacy. Here's my big question. The refrigerator 270 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: that she was found in. My question is being the 271 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: nerd that I am, I want to know if the 272 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: refrigerator still worked. I want to know if you no, really, 273 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: I want to know. Well, And here's the reason. 274 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 2: Here's my reason, stinging cord in here in the middle 275 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 2: of the woods. 276 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: Yeah no, no, But let's just say, for instance, that 277 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: she was killed and then placed into the refrigerator with 278 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: the shells removed of course, and kept plugged in in 279 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: order to keep the body cool while the perpetrator is 280 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: trying to decide what they're going to do. What's the 281 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: disposition going to be here of her remains within that, 282 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: I know that I'm going to use the refrigerator. Where 283 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,239 Speaker 1: am I going to dump this thing? There's a lot 284 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: of logistics that go into refrigerators and bodies, all right, 285 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: you this is something that I guess it could be 286 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: an item of convenience. You've got an extra refrigerator, you know, 287 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: on your property laying around the house. Maybe it's out back. 288 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,719 Speaker 1: Maybe they went and singularly purchased a used refrigerator at 289 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: a junk store for this purpose because you got you know, 290 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: you think about it. I guess out of all household items, 291 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: a refrigerator and a deep freeze, which we've had a 292 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: case involved in a deep freeze. Remember the two women 293 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: up in Oklahoma with the skid steer you've got, that's 294 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: that's the most I don't know, casket like item that 295 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: you have in your. 296 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 2: Home, probably in this case Joe. When the body is 297 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 2: found inside the refrigerator in the woods in on December 298 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 2: twenty second, she had been missing for some time. As 299 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 2: I mentioned the earlier in the show, that we're not 300 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 2: exactly sure the last time she was seen. There is 301 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 2: a little bit of an issue as the last time 302 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 2: she was seen. And look, we're all mistaken from time 303 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 2: to time. You know, I could think I saw Joe 304 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 2: yesterday down at the supermarket, and in reality it was 305 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 2: a week ago. I mean, that does happen. So it's 306 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 2: a whole lot less of when she was last seen 307 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 2: as to where the police go in their investigation, because 308 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 2: as soon as this is found, you know, they couldn't 309 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 2: identify her right at first, Let's just say that she 310 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 2: was last seen in the middle of July. Just call 311 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 2: it July fifteenth for the sake of argument. We are 312 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 2: now in December and she has been inside this freezer 313 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 2: for some time now, it's not as you mentioned, this 314 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,479 Speaker 2: could have been a situation where she's in the freezer, 315 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 2: plugged in in somebody's basement, and then you know, on 316 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 2: December twenty first they decide I'm getting rid of it 317 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 2: and take it out in the woods and dump it. 318 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 2: We don't believe that's the case because the investigation led 319 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 2: in a different way. But what are we talking about 320 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 2: in terms of a body that's been in an enclosed 321 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 2: environment such as an old refrigerator with no power. Let's 322 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 2: just say it was unplugged and that that is now 323 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 2: wrapped and it's been left in the woods. What kind 324 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 2: of condition is a body going to be in four months? 325 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: Question? And I'm going to be a contrarian here and 326 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: start with what if it was plugged up? And let's 327 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: just start with that one little piece first. If if 328 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: in fact, this were to happen, and we don't have 329 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: an indication of this right now. Matter of fact, if 330 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: anybody wants to see a really cool movie sometime, make 331 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: sure that you check out the movie Bernie with Jack 332 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: Black and Matthew McConaughey and Shirley Shirley MacLean is based 333 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: on a true story about a lady that was a 334 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: true story in Texas where she was murdered and placed 335 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 1: in a deep freeze and left in the deep freeze 336 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: for a protracted period of time. Believe it or not, 337 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: the money is The movie is kind of a dark comedy, 338 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: but it's a true story. 339 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 2: Matthew McConaughey's mother is in that movie. 340 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: She was she a story, Yeah, she is in this fascinating. 341 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: The story itself is just mind blowing, very very Southern Gothic, 342 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: if you will. 343 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 2: But with. 344 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: The condition, let's just say that we have an individual 345 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: that's placed into a refrigerator. A refrigerator is not sufficient 346 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: enough to really retard the process of decomposition because you 347 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: can't get the thing cold enough in order to knock 348 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:36,479 Speaker 1: down the cellular degradation that's going on. It'll slow it, 349 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: but it's not going to say it's not like. Let's 350 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: just say, like in the case I was just talking 351 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: about with Bernie the movie Bernie, if you place a 352 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: body into a deep freeze, all right, where things you know, 353 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: when you pull out a package of chicken or ground beef, 354 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: it looks like you could, you know, lay mortar to it. 355 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: And build a house out of it. That's how dense 356 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: and frozen it is. It's not like that with the refrigerator. 357 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 1: And everybody understands that. You know, you go the refrigerator, 358 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 1: you open it up. You got a pack of hot 359 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: dogs in there. They're gonna be cold, but they're gonna 360 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: be soft, all right, It's not gonna be frozen through. 361 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: So if the person the perpetrator in this case, did 362 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: in fact put her body in and leave it plugged 363 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: in for a time, it would retard the process of decomposition, 364 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 1: but it's not gonna stop it. So you would be 365 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: fighting against that when you're trying to make a determination. 366 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: This is gonna throw your timeline all off if you 367 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: get out there and she's been plugged in, unplugged, taken 368 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: out there and dumped. And I don't even know that 369 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,719 Speaker 1: there is a mathematical formula that you could use in 370 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: order to calculate this from a post mortal interval standpoint, 371 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: there's too many variables in it. But I will say 372 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: that her body when she was found in that refrigerator 373 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: and they did open it, depended upon the position of 374 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: the refrigerator. I can tell you this, what's going to 375 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: come out of it. First off, you're going to have 376 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: you're going to have a considerable amount of per what 377 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: we refer to as perge fluid, decompositional fluid that will 378 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: literally come pouring out all right if because you get 379 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: these This is something I've never talked about actually on 380 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: body backs, but I'll go there now. 381 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 2: You have. 382 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: You know, you see bodies that are decomposing and swollen, 383 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: and that's that happens as a result of this internal 384 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: gas build up. It's primarily methane. I've actually seen a 385 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: needle inserted into the decomposing remains of an individual been 386 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: down for a while. Needle's been inserted into their abdomen 387 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: and a lighter. You strike a lighter and a blue 388 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: flame comes out of the open end of the needle 389 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: because it's it's bleeding off methane and it'll burn had 390 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: a friend like a cigarette off off of burning methane 391 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: off of a dead body. 392 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 2: Kind of makes me want to ask you about some 393 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 2: of your previous friendships you know. 394 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: I know, questionable of. But it's you're going to get 395 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: what are referred to as blebs on the body now 396 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: blebs b L E B S, blebs are generally associated 397 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: with COPD or inmphysema. H. When you see a person 398 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: with imphizimbitous lungs, they're going to have these bubbles on 399 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 1: the surface of their lungs that look like they actually 400 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: look like you know the things that the kids, well, 401 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: I do too. If you get packing wrap that you 402 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,959 Speaker 1: like to pop, it looks like those those little kind 403 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: of blistered and it contains air. In the case of 404 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: decomposition blabs, it contains one of the nasty substances known 405 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: to man, and that's decompositional fluid, and that's as a 406 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: result of the cellular breakdown, and it's the blister. Some 407 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: people call it decompetitional blisters. They're actually these sacks that 408 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: are containing what's left of the breakdown of the cells 409 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: and it's leeching out. And one of the worst things 410 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: that happens is that these blisters rerupt and that fluid 411 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: goes everywhere and it's kind of a greenish black color 412 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: and it smells as awful as it sounds. So you 413 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: would have a tremendous amount of that in the refrigerator. Now, 414 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: would she potentially be skeletonized to some extent, Perhaps there 415 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: might be evidence. There might be evidence of the fact 416 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: that the soft tissue is so degraded that you're beginning 417 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 1: to see some of the skeletal features, particularly in the 418 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: fingers and around the chin. You'll get that presentation around 419 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: the jaw, even on the forehead. Sometimes the saving grace though, 420 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: is the fact that you're not really around any kind 421 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: of scavengers, are you. Now They can come and it 422 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: would not surprise me, Dave. And this is kind of 423 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: mind blowing when you think about it. Out in the 424 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: woods like that, you can have something that's seeded, that's 425 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: seeded in that location, has been placed there, and that 426 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: smell is so strong that you'll have raccoons and possums, dogs, 427 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: they will be drawn to that and they're going to 428 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: be really frustrated because I can't get to it. It'll 429 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: just be there and it's emanating out and I can 430 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: just imagine animals circling that area. If you were really 431 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: careful when you were working that scene, you would probably 432 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: see remnants of animal activity around that area, everything from 433 00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: paw prints to scat to hair. You might even and 434 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: get somebody one of these animals that becomes territorial because 435 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: the smell it's ringing the dinner bell for them, and 436 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 1: they'll get into a fight over it, but they can't 437 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: get access to the body. You imagine how frustrating that 438 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: would be for a wild animal. But the bodies are preserved. 439 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: Now you can sometimes believe it or not. You will 440 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: if that seal, that rubber gasket seal has been compromised anyway, 441 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: you might you might actually get fly activity, okay, which 442 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: is kind of fascinating when you think about flies getting 443 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: into the refrigerator. But sometimes found with flies in particular 444 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: that you know, where there's a will, there's a way. 445 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: There's actually a species of fly now that we're talking 446 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: about containers or bodies. There's actually a species of fly 447 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: called coffin flies that burrow and they get into coffins, 448 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: and that's where the name comes from. And they'll, you know, 449 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: they'll go to work on embalmed bodies that have been preserved. 450 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: So you've got all manner of things that are being thwarted, 451 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: but you can't take anything off the table. But her 452 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: remains would be physically preserved to the extent that they're 453 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: not being ravaged by scavengers that are coming by. She's 454 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: not being subjected to rain. Perhaps if there's any trace 455 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: evidence on the body, if she is fully clothed that 456 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: has been preserved to a great degree. Now it's going 457 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: to be really disgusting for the people as a lab 458 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: that get this clothing. I used to think about that 459 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: as I would take clothing off of the dead and 460 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,640 Speaker 1: you hang it up in a forensic We have these 461 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: clothed dryers that we and they're not like a tumble 462 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: dryer there. It kind of dehumidifies the air. You put 463 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: them on hangers and you hang them in this box 464 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: and if it's saturated with blood decomflu it, it'll dry, 465 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: but it drives over a period of time and it 466 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: doesn't compromise the evidence so much. But I always felt 467 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: sorry for the people down the road, down the road, 468 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: you know, coming out of the morgan they receive the 469 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: stuff in their very clean clinical area that they have, 470 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: you know, it's coming up out of the dirty morgue 471 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: and it lands on their desk and they have to 472 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: work with this thing and they spread this you know, 473 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: a bit of clothing out and they're having to lean 474 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: over this thing and look through a magnifying lens or uh, 475 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: you know, a special special lighting and treat it in 476 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,479 Speaker 1: particular ways, and they're having to deal with this nasty 477 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: piece of garment, you know, and it's it's not easy work, 478 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: you know, to participat in. But if you have a 479 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: body inside of a refrigerator, a lot of that stuff 480 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: is going to be preserved. So you've got to bite 481 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: your lip if you're a technician and sally on four 482 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: through this process because it's therein that some of these 483 00:29:50,400 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: big questions might be answered. Years ago, I was working 484 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: with a pathologist and we had several bodies that have 485 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: been placed into a deep breeze, and a deep breeze 486 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: was brought into the morgue. It was just they didn't 487 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: bother trying to remove the remains from the deep freeze. 488 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: And so you've got three remains. They're commingled inside of 489 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: an old deep freeze and they're brought in on the 490 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: back of a flatbed truck and then wheeled into the 491 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: morgue and we had to go through the process of 492 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: removing the remains. But I remember still to this day 493 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: us opening It was tied down, not with straps, but 494 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: it was tied with rope. I remember untying that rope 495 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: and opening up opening up that the lid on that thing, 496 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: and the pathologists looking down in him. This is a 497 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: direct quote, A what a filthy damn the shell. No, 498 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: what a filthy damn jumbled miss is what he said. 499 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: And he was absolutely right. Because these bodies have been 500 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: in there for so long, many of the parts had disarticulated, 501 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: and so you've you've got them mixed up, and you've 502 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: got scalp remains that are twisted around in bits of clothing, 503 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: and it is it's one thing. It's the beauty of 504 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: it scientifically and investigatively is that you've got everything contained 505 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: in one space. That's the upside. The downside is trying 506 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: to fight through all of the issues with decomposition, and 507 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: that extends in this case Dave to the body and 508 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: I think probably one of the most basic things that 509 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: we work on as death investigators. 510 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 2: You know, I was wondering, That's why I was really 511 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 2: curious as to what kind of decomposition would take in 512 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 2: a sealed container over a period of time like that 513 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 2: through the summer fall into the winter months in New Jersey. 514 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 2: In this particular case, when they opened the refrigerator found 515 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 2: her body. As they were trying to identify her. It 516 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 2: took a couple of days, and they actually they being 517 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 2: law enforcement, they actually released information about tattoos on her 518 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 2: body and jewelry. Because you know, you've got a person 519 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 2: of indiscriminate age who has been found in a refrigerator 520 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 2: out in the middle of the woods, and there are 521 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 2: a lot of people missing in this country, sadly, and 522 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 2: so it wasn't an easy one to say, hey, we've 523 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 2: been missing this woman for the last couple of months. 524 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 2: It wasn't even like that. They really didn't know, and 525 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 2: so they put on television. They created, you know, the 526 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 2: picture of it. But here's what the tattoos look like. 527 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 2: Here's the jewelry found with the body. If you know 528 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 2: who this is, and that's how they were able to 529 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 2: identify her. It took two days. But I'm really curious 530 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 2: as to how all of this transpires and identifying not 531 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 2: just the person, but you've got to know how they died, 532 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 2: right so that you can track it back to the 533 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 2: actual suspect and what took place before the person ended 534 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 2: up in the woods, because it is a person. It's 535 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 2: not just a junk pile in the woods. This is 536 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: somebody's mother who has been just tossed like this. 537 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, mother, mother, too correct, another too yes to young girls. Well, 538 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:31,239 Speaker 1: first off, let's let's take it from this perspective. I 539 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: know that there are people listening to this right now 540 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: and they're going to say, well, why don't you just 541 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: run DNA? Well, you can run DNA, but what in 542 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,719 Speaker 1: the heck are you going to compare it to? Okay, uh, 543 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 1: why don't you steal a dental chart? Okay, let's do 544 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: a dental chart. We've done the post mortem dental chart. 545 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: Now what are we going to compare it to? Do 546 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: you see? It leads, It leads to a dead end. Now, 547 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: if if there are police out there, police agencies that 548 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: have a missing person that they're working on, you can 549 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: go to the family and say, hey, can we get 550 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,719 Speaker 1: we think this might be your loved one. Can we 551 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: please get can we please get her anti mortem dental 552 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: records you know from her who's her dentist, and you 553 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: issue a subpoena. Must oh, by the way, most dentists, 554 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,479 Speaker 1: if you're dealing with one of their patients. I only 555 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: remember a couple of times where we had to get 556 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: a subpoena for a dentist. Most of the time they 557 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: are just the most obliging people, you know, because they 558 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: developed real relationships obviously with these folks, they've known them 559 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: for years. But sometimes you don't. You don't have that, 560 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: and the one thing that you can go with are 561 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: tattoos and certainly jewelry. Now, in her case, I think 562 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: any right thinking person would say, well, Morgan, you're going 563 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: on about how decomposed she would be over this period 564 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: of time, and she would be Her skin by this 565 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: time would be a blog green color. It's not going 566 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: to look like it did in life at all. 567 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 2: What wait a minute, Joe, I've never heard this before. 568 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 2: I've never actually heard that it's going to turn that 569 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 2: kind of a color. 570 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll it'll be a mixture of black green every 571 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: now and then you'll see a hue of dark blue 572 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: in it. And I don't ask me, I can't explain it, 573 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: but that's that's how the change generally happens. You'll also 574 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: get these kind of spiderweb looking presentations that are called marbling. 575 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: And marbling happens kind of early on. You see it 576 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: in the face a lot, and marbling if you just imagine, well, 577 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: imagine a marble countertop, and you know how and I 578 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: don't know anything about them. I've never had a marble countertop. 579 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 1: I just hear people talk about them. They've got those 580 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: kind of distinct veins that run through them, you know, 581 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: that make up those unique patterns, And I think that 582 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: a lot of people put a lot of stock in 583 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: that sort of thing about the past pattern of the 584 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: marbling in it. You hear marbling when it comes to steak, 585 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's really well marbled. When you think about decomposition, 586 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: this marbling that takes place with the body, that's actually 587 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: the blood setting up in the blood vessels, and so 588 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: it decomposes within the vessels. The vessels are decomposing, and 589 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: so you get this presentation of dark purple, dark blue, 590 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: kind of purplish color of the literally the vessels. You 591 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 1: can see them, the outline of them running through the face. 592 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,280 Speaker 1: And interesting, I've actually seen this portrayed in horror movies. 593 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: So people have seen pictures of the dead and they're 594 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: trying to recreate like a zombie or something. You'll see 595 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: and I don't even know if the people that are 596 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: creating it know what they're creating, but you see it 597 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 1: a lot in decomposing bodies with marbling but in Lara's case, 598 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 1: she had she did obviously have tattoos, and you had jewelry. 599 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: You're not going to see how can I describe this 600 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: for okay, let's just say it was one of our 601 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: loved ones. Okay, And you know that you've got a 602 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: tattoo on the body. You don't want a picture of 603 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: the tattoo placed with the news media and say do 604 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: you recognize this tattoo. You don't want the actual image 605 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: of the decomposing body. So many times what will happen 606 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: is is that after it's cleaned up, and there's a 607 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: very specific way we clean suspected tattooed areas, you try 608 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,479 Speaker 1: to do an artistic rendering of it. Well, it looks 609 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,919 Speaker 1: like this is an eagle globe and anchor. If you've 610 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: got some marine vet that has been found dead and decomposing, 611 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: or you know, I don't know the word mom with 612 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: a heart, and that's unique to that individual, you would 613 00:37:55,560 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: prefer to do an artist rent of the tattoo and 614 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: then clean up the jewelry. Most time it can be 615 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,280 Speaker 1: cleaned and actually take a picture of that because people, 616 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, there's a tendency I wear one piece of jewelry, 617 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,439 Speaker 1: and that's my wedding ring. I'm not a necklace guy, 618 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: all right. I've never worn one with a big fertility 619 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: horn hanging off of it or something, you know, or 620 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: an aunk. I've just never worn that sort of thing. 621 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,879 Speaker 1: And I don't wear a watch anymore. But I do 622 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 1: wear my wedding ring. It never comes off my hand. 623 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,280 Speaker 1: And so that's a piece of jewelry that is unique 624 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:44,919 Speaker 1: to me. Okay, but if you have a lady who 625 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: wears multiple bits of jewelry, now you just increased the 626 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,280 Speaker 1: percentage of getting her notified or identified. If she wears 627 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: specific types of earrings, let's say, just diamond studs, pearl studs, 628 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: you know, as opposed to something that hangs down, or 629 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: maybe she does wear stuff that hangs down. She's got 630 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, it looks like dream catchers 631 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,399 Speaker 1: or something like that. She's got a necklace on that's 632 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: got an initial on it or anything like that. Every 633 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: bit of that makes it unique. Now to get the 634 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: tattoos in the morgue on decomposing bodies, one of the 635 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: things that we'll do. And I may have mentioned this before, 636 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 1: but you know, sue me. We we actually take a 637 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: scalpel blade and gently scrape across that top edge of 638 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 1: the skin, and it's decomposing anyway you can without scraping it. 639 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: You can kind of make it out all right. But 640 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: as you begin to scrape away what remains of the epidermis, 641 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 1: the skin will literally begin to peel off of that 642 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: the epidermal level and below in the dermas, which is 643 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: where the ink has gone into. You can still actually 644 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: appreciate the tattoo. Now, sometimes they'll be misshapen because the 645 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: limb might be swollen or that area of the body 646 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 1: might be swollen. But you can get a general idea, 647 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: you know, of what you're looking at here, and take 648 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: really good photos and you have an artist or somebody 649 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: that's really good nowadays at you know, at digital imaging, 650 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: and they create this thing, affect simile of it, and 651 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,319 Speaker 1: you combine that with something unique collectualty, and you got 652 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: an id. Dave. 653 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,760 Speaker 2: You know, that's an amazing breakthrough in this case because Joe. 654 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 2: Once they were able to identify who this victim is, 655 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 2: they were able to find their main suspect. Because the 656 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 2: one thing that was consistent with the life of Laura 657 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 2: Hughes and her boyfriend, Christopher Blevins, contact with police for 658 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,239 Speaker 2: domestic violence and so as soon as she was entered 659 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,799 Speaker 2: into the system, Laura Hughes, Oh wait a minute, we 660 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,839 Speaker 2: have an address, We've got police reports. So that's when 661 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 2: they go and investigate. Christopher Blevins becomes an immediate suspect. 662 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 2: He's not nowhere to be found. They can't find him 663 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 2: right away, So imagine this investigation. You find the body 664 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 2: on the December twenty second, two days later, Christmas Eve. 665 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 2: The body is identified as a missing person. Now she's 666 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 2: been missing for months, Laura Bevans, I mean Laura Hughes. Rather, 667 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 2: Christopher Blevins is her lover who they boyfriend. When they 668 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 2: go to his place, they find a blue ratchet strap 669 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 2: similar to that that was found wrapped around the refrigerator. 670 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,399 Speaker 2: They also find a gun. They also find a few 671 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 2: other things in the apartment that tie him directly to 672 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,480 Speaker 2: the refrigerator found in the middle of the woods. So 673 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 2: they're looking for Christopher Blevins. This is where you know 674 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,880 Speaker 2: you mentioned a minute ago. Why don't you just run DNA, 675 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 2: Because until I actually got doing this show with you 676 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 2: on a regular I didn't realize that you you know, 677 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 2: I thought, well, we all have DNA. Boom you there, 678 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 2: you go, just pop it up there and all of 679 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,760 Speaker 2: this exists, not a problem, because that's what it seems 680 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 2: like on TV. All we got to do is get DNA. 681 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,360 Speaker 2: There's a you know, the Wizard of Oz has the connection, 682 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:53,720 Speaker 2: you know, and. 683 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,400 Speaker 1: In reality that you ignore behind the curtain. 684 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 2: Yes, So what they did here was they actually went 685 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,879 Speaker 2: and did good old fashioned police work, and they use 686 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 2: some current technology like license plate readers. They seem to 687 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,280 Speaker 2: come in handy a good bit, and lo and behold, 688 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 2: they find Christopher Blevin's vehicle, a green truck. They spot 689 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 2: this green truck on license readers, and we got cct 690 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 2: TV cameras everywhere. So the police, now that they have 691 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 2: their suspect, and now that they have kind of a 692 00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:29,520 Speaker 2: rough estimate as to win Laura went missing, they start 693 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 2: looking and they find that wait a minute, they got 694 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,879 Speaker 2: a license plate reader picking up his green Dodge Ram 695 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 2: truck transporting a refrigerator shaped object on two separate days 696 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 2: late in July, and lo and behold, he leaves the 697 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 2: state right after this little track, right after he's seen 698 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,040 Speaker 2: in two days carrying around something looks like a refrigerator 699 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,879 Speaker 2: instruct he bolts town. He's gone, so. 700 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I wonder I wonder if he had James 701 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: Taylor's edition or rendition of Mexico Plane on the radio 702 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,040 Speaker 1: as he goes down the road perfectly. Actually, I prefer 703 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: Buffett's version of Mexico to James Taylor's. But you know 704 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,399 Speaker 1: that apparently is where he was headed for Dave. 705 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know Joe, he was, Well, I'm still 706 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,960 Speaker 2: a little flustered over the calendar that they found in 707 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 2: his apartment. You know, that had an x had all 708 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 2: the calendar at the calendar's market exes all the way 709 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 2: up to July twenty fourth, which is the day they 710 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 2: believe he transported the refrigerator to the woods with her 711 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 2: body in it. I mean, was he planning it out 712 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 2: for a long time and this is due? 713 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought about that when you said, you know, 714 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,439 Speaker 1: when you mentioned the exes, because I've you know, at work, 715 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 1: in particular my old job, working at the I'd put 716 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 1: ex'es on my calendar all the time so I could 717 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,360 Speaker 1: count down when my next day off was going to be. 718 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 2: I just remember your wife writing down the number of 719 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,960 Speaker 2: days left before retirement, you know, on her hand. Yeah, 720 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:56,600 Speaker 2: she love it. 721 00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, Kim Carrey's a She's renowned for carrying an actual 722 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 1: calendar with her. She's known as my little calendar girl. 723 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: So you know, isn't that a nil area? No, I 724 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 1: don't know. I can't remember anyway, But. 725 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,759 Speaker 2: So they got the calendar, they got it xed out, 726 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 2: but they actually have the video of him. They and 727 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 2: lo and behold. They start looking for him and they 728 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:24,680 Speaker 2: find out, well, he has gone to Mexico and he 729 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 2: confesses to Mexican authorities that he got into a bar fight. 730 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,959 Speaker 2: That's his story. He was in a violent bar fight 731 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,319 Speaker 2: and that's why he was fleeing. Well, I don't know 732 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 2: exactly what happened. There's a little confusion here, but he 733 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:45,799 Speaker 2: was turning himself in. This is in late August and 734 00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,400 Speaker 2: when police are actually when they find him, he is 735 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 2: in San Diego and in jail, and again it goes 736 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 2: back to he told police that he had been in 737 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,920 Speaker 2: some type of a bar fight and it led to 738 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 2: a violent interaction with somebody. Granted it's a lot he 739 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,759 Speaker 2: killed his girlfriend at their home. He didn't he didn't 740 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 2: get into a crazy bar fight, but he was telling 741 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 2: a story. He was trying to get it off his chest, 742 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 2: you know, and telling somebody I killed somebody, you know, 743 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 2: And that's that's actually where police found him. Was in 744 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,840 Speaker 2: a state of semi denial about killing his girlfriend. But 745 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:22,400 Speaker 2: you know, I. 746 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 1: Think the Mexican authorities did not hook him up because 747 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 1: there was nothing in the system that came back to him. 748 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,960 Speaker 1: And I'm still to clear how the communication happens between 749 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 1: the Mexican authorities and our authorities, but I do know 750 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,359 Speaker 1: that they they're able to access this if there's an 751 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,319 Speaker 1: outstanding warrant, that sort of thing. And this is fascinating 752 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,400 Speaker 1: because and I'll tell you and you know, he he is. 753 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:50,000 Speaker 1: Blevin's is in fact arrested, okay, and he's got multiple 754 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 1: charges on it, right and this is still an unadjudicated 755 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 1: case at this point. However, one of the one of 756 00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,160 Speaker 1: the big mysteries that remains with his case. Remember how 757 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,240 Speaker 1: you mentioned just second ago, Dave, that when they did 758 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 1: they served that search warmth, they found a firearm at 759 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,359 Speaker 1: his house. To me, if the cops say we've got 760 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: a firearm and I don't have a cause of death 761 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:17,440 Speaker 1: that's been made public, I'm thinking, I'm thinking, Okay, well 762 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about you know, she's been executed, you know, 763 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 1: or something to that effect. She's been shot. Okay, but 764 00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:29,720 Speaker 1: we've got conflicting reports. You actually came across a statement 765 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,040 Speaker 1: that they thought that maybe she had been strangled, correct. 766 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,360 Speaker 2: And that came from Blevins. That came from his original 767 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,080 Speaker 2: confession to Mexican authorities where he strangled somebody in a 768 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,799 Speaker 2: bar fight, which again we know it wasn't a bar fight. 769 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 2: You know, we know he was telling a lie while 770 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 2: he was trying to tell the truth at the same time. 771 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 2: By the way, they actually picked up his green truck, 772 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:50,800 Speaker 2: the one they saw the refrigerator size. 773 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,480 Speaker 1: It was a Dodge Ram I think. 774 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, green Dodge Ram truck and they saw it 775 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,560 Speaker 2: crossing the border into Mexico on August the second, and 776 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,760 Speaker 2: then August he goes into in Mexico August twenty seventh, 777 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,280 Speaker 2: in Mexico City. He then confesses to possibly killing somebody. 778 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,719 Speaker 2: But you mentioned the gun and that I think that 779 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 2: is the actual telling tale. But based on the body's decomposition, Joe, 780 00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,400 Speaker 2: what we did bullet wound tell you, could you find 781 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,719 Speaker 2: enough evidence with regard to that. 782 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, As a matter of fact, in this if I 783 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,359 Speaker 1: had my druthers. I still don't know what a druther is, 784 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,960 Speaker 1: but I still if I had my druthers and it 785 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:34,040 Speaker 1: was my case, my preference would be to deal with 786 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:40,440 Speaker 1: a gunshot wound with a decomposed body any day over 787 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:47,480 Speaker 1: unasphixial death, because it's so compromised, particularly this far down range. Dave, 788 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: you know we're talking months and months that tissue in 789 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,840 Speaker 1: the neck in particular that you're going to be looking at. 790 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 1: You might, you know, maybe three months afterwards, two months afterwards, 791 00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: you really would have been able to appreciate focal areas 792 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,279 Speaker 1: of hemorrhage that are associated with the squeezing of the 793 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 1: neck in some way. But Dude, the further down the 794 00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: track you go with this, unless her hyoid is broken, 795 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 1: it becomes more and more tough. If, for instance, she 796 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:20,200 Speaker 1: is shot, well, bullet defects hang around, because one of 797 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 1: the things you're thinking about here is, particularly if it's 798 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:28,680 Speaker 1: a head shot, you know, bone does not decompose like this. Okay, 799 00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:32,680 Speaker 1: you're still going to be able to appreciate a bullet defect. 800 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,960 Speaker 1: You can appreciate directionality front to back, left to right 801 00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,279 Speaker 1: to below, below to above. You can appreciate all of 802 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,720 Speaker 1: those things, the trajectory issues. You might have trouble trying 803 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,480 Speaker 1: to determine range of fire because the skin, if it's 804 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:51,040 Speaker 1: in the scalp, the skin's compromised. Okay, But if she's 805 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,920 Speaker 1: shot in the chest, you could still do range of fire. 806 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 1: You can see if it's up closed, you could still 807 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:04,520 Speaker 1: possibly make out of gunpowder in the clothing. Much remains 808 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,279 Speaker 1: to be written and seen about this case, and of 809 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,920 Speaker 1: course it hasn't gone a trial yet, but we're going 810 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,320 Speaker 1: to keep our eye on it because it's certainly fascinating 811 00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:20,520 Speaker 1: and hopefully, hopefully Laura will receive some justice. I'm Joseph 812 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:29,040 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, and this is body