WEBVTT - Joanne Lee Molinaro 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.960 I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to What's 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.559 Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a show 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:15.400 about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and personal journeys. Together, 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.200 we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors, and leaders 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.840 of the world's most iconic brands. Listen every Thursday or 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.880 join the conversation anytime on Instagram at What's Her Story Podcast. 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.920 Joanne Lee Mulinaro is known as a Korean Vegan. She 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.479 is a lawyer turned TikTok superstar in New York Times 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:44.839 bestselling author The Korean Vegan. Why the name, Well, I 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:47.280 think the Korean Vegan was actually given to me by 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:50.640 my then boyfriend, now has been I think we were 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:52.960 like getting up in the morning, and this was before 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:56.200 I was fully one thousand percent committed to being vegan, 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.440 and I think he was trying to encourage me, and 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.640 so was like, man, that risotto you made yesterday was 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:05.440 so good. You should start a YouTube channel. You can 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:09.800 call yourself the Korean Vegan. And that was like I 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.200 was like, actually, that's that's that's not bad idea. And 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:15.800 I started a YouTube channel that night called The Korean 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.800 Vegan and it just stuck, So Joanne, at that time, 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:24.360 you were a practicing, full time attorney, and what with 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:28.840 that journey like to go from being an attorney to 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:31.199 then suddenly saying, Okay, I'm gonna start a YouTube channel. 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.840 When I started the Korean Vegan in two thousand and sixteen, 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:38.880 I was, let's say, I had just made partner, actually, 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.119 um when I decided to adopt a plant based diet. 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.000 And I was just talking about this to my husband 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.440 the other day, And I'm sure both of you can relate, 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.320 because I know you have had incredible milestones in your 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:53.840 own life. But one of the nice things about being 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:55.960 a lawyer and going to law school was all of 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.520 the finish lines are set for you. They're they're all there. 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:01.840 You know, really need to set them for yourselves. You 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:05.080 don't need to create any of your own goals because oh, 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:07.360 graduate from law school, past the bar, example, get into 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:09.800 a big law firm you know, makes it your counsel, 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.640 make partner. It's all there for you. But when I 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.240 made partner, all of a sudden, I was like, I 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:17.720 have no goals. I've made all of the goals, I've 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.040 checked all of the boxes on this list, and now 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:22.120 I have to come up with my own. It was 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:26.360 incredibly intimidating. It was a little frightening, and for a 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.119 couple of years I felt very lost. And I'm really 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.800 glad that I had something like the Korean Vegan, which 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:34.880 was sort of my side hobby. I don't even call 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:37.040 it a hustle because it didn't make any money. I 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:40.680 lost lots and lots and lots of money with this hustle, 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.880 if you will, But it was something nice to have 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:48.040 that made me feel a little grounded. But it also 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.360 made me feel very human, like I was like, all right, 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.560 I'm not just this robot inside of this machine. I 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.799 have a human hobby and I really like doing it. 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.320 How soon after that did you set goals are around 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.560 the hobby. I had no goals around the hobby for 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:06.160 many years. Again, a goal was delivered to me in 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:10.600 two thousand eighteen. Somebody saw my Instagram accounts put me 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:12.840 in touch with a lit agent, who then put me 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:15.840 in touch with a big time publisher and they're like, okay, 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:17.920 we would like for you to write a cookbook. You 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:21.120 have this many months to do it. So again, you know, 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.040 the goal was placed in front of me. It wasn't 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.280 one that I created on my own, and part of 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.600 that was because I didn't need the pressure. I just 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.760 was like, hey, I'm a partner, I'm a new partner, 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:36.600 and that's a lot of work in and of itself. 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:38.560 I want to develop a practice, I want to have 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:40.920 my own book of clients. I want to be successful 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.640 at what I'm doing in this career. I don't need 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.320 more pressure to create more goals in a side hobby 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:49.920 to the extent that one was created for me with 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.360 the book deal. How exciting was that it was really 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.520 really fun and exciting, But again I had very little 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.080 ambition with regard to the book. I was like, I 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.440 will be happy to see it in print, and if 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:02.640 you know, seven people buy it, that will make me 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:07.360 very happy. At what point did this not become a 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.520 hobby and there become goals an ambition shifted over to 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:14.160 this the current life that I have, this reality. It 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.760 was not something that I dreamed like. I could not 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.000 have even imagined this when I signed my book deal 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:25.760 in two thousand eighteen. I think that this shift occurred 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:31.440 probably in when I started posting on TikTok. I started 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:33.919 posting on TikTok for the same reason that everybody else 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.120 either joined TikTok or started posting themselves. It was because 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:41.159 of the pandemic, quarantine, everything that was happening in the 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.800 world with George Floyd, it was just like too overwhelming, 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.520 and so I went on to TikTok because I needed 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.320 a little bit of distraction and something to take my 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:54.320 mind off of an immense amount of anxiety surrounding everything 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:56.320 that was happening in the world and in my own 0:04:56.400 --> 0:05:00.960 life personally and professionally. And then, you know, it's hard 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.040 not to be inspired by the you know jen z 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.360 z z z z that you call them. They're very inspiring. 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:09.640 And I was like, you know what, I do have 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.160 a cookbook coming out and you know, less than a year. 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:15.120 I'll bet my editor and publisher would really appreciate it. 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.280 If I, you know, built out this TikTok, you know, 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.919 maybe I could have like another ten thousand followers to 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:23.360 add to my Instagram, which had seventy thousand followers at 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.440 the time. And so that's what I did, and before 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:30.560 I knew it, I had viral videos like a lot 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:34.240 of them, um and I had probably close to a 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.640 million followers in just a few months. And it was 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:42.040 then that I decided, all right, like I actually could 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:44.080 do something with this, not just like you know, at 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.640 the time, I wasn't thinking career, but at the very 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.520 least I was hoping that it would help with book sales. 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:53.320 And I think fast forward probably about six months after 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:57.640 the end of was when I decided, all right, I'm 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.360 gonna go for the New York Times bestseller list. It 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.640 was only then, like a few months before my book 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:05.080 came out, that we made it a real priority. And 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:09.000 what did that look like? Well, I think that it 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.360 looked ugly. I'll be very honest with you, Seam. I mean, 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.800 because and Sam, you you have experience with you know, 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.000 getting on best seller lists and stuff like that. So 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:21.080 much of it is you know, not transparent, and you know, 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:24.119 really really competitive. You've got to know what other books 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:27.760 are coming out at that time, you know, in your category, 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.200 and you know, there's no real formula to it. There's 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:33.920 some some formula like okay, make sure you sell a 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.440 lot of books, obviously, but honestly, from an internal and 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:42.080 personal perspective, it was ugly because I approached this goal 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:44.839 the same way I approached everything else that I had 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.279 in my legal career. Was like I've got to knock 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.640 it out of the park, and I've got to do it, like, 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.120 you know, months before it's due that that's my personality. 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.240 If somebody sets a goal for me, I want to 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.320 make sure that by the time the deadline arise, I'm like, 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.520 well passed, you know, whatever is expected of me, because 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:05.160 I hate being short on anything. But as you know, 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.880 there's no way to gauge whether you're going to make 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:12.120 it before the deadline, if you will, and so a 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:16.400 lot of it was just intense anxiety, um, doing everything 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.480 I possibly can to sell as many pre orders as 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.600 I could, you know, getting frustrated by the numbers I 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:24.880 was getting from my sales team like that's not enough. 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.679 We need to be double that right now, and things 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.520 like that. Um. But at the end, you know, when 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:34.680 my publisher they set up this like surprise zoom meeting 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:36.560 with my husband while I was in the middle of 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:39.800 like podcasts and things like that, and you know, they 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.280 broke the news to me and it was just it 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.920 was amazing. I mean I started bawling on the spot. 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:48.760 What his role as your husband played. It sounds like 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:54.360 he's been quite an inspiration for your career since since 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:57.880 he had the title boyfriend. My husband is an artist. 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:03.240 He's a concert pianist. So he has never had a job, 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:05.640 I think, other than a brief stint as a valet 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.240 for a hotel or something like that where he's worked 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.360 for Yeah, Like, he's never worked at anything other than 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.920 his craft and his passion, which is music. And so 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:21.160 his mindset is so different from mine. He's not opposed 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:25.600 to taking some pretty serious risks in his career. He 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:29.640 hates the idea of working for anyone other than himself. 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.319 And the other thing that I admire so much about 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:35.840 him is he doesn't need a bajillion dollars. He doesn't 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.840 need to be rich and famous. He just wants to 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:42.320 live a comfortable life that allows him to travel, eat 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.680 the food that he likes to eat, be with the 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.240 people he loves, while doing the kind of work that 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:51.800 makes him happy and fulfilled. And that mindset was so 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:56.040 different from the classic child of immigrants mindset that I had, 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.040 which is like, no, you like scarcity mentality, You must, 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.440 you know, hoard all the money's and like, you know, 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.640 do all the hard work and you know all that stuff, 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.000 and this idea of well why not just you know, 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:11.320 live comfortably and like not, you know, kill yourself and 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:15.600 do what you love. It was just really nice to 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:19.760 be with somebody who not only encouraged that in me, 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:24.240 but displayed that demonstrated that every single day of his 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.840 own life. And I think that more than any conversation 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.319 that we had or any you know, piece of advice 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.200 that he would give, just watching how he lived his 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:38.320 life so fulfilled every day was the biggest motivator for 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.959 me to finally take that risk and make the jump 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.600 from being a full time lawyer to being a full 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.640 time content creator and writer. Your first marriage wasn't like this, 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:52.000 It definitely was not like that. If you had stayed 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.840 in that marriage, would you have become the Korean vegan? 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.320 There's so many reasons why, I mean, the most obvious 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:01.560 of which is I don't think that I would have 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:04.400 ever gone vegan um or if I had, it would 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.360 have been much later in my life, and I'm not 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:09.240 sure if I would have had the energy at that 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:14.920 point to do aside hustle um. So definitely not. I also, 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:21.280 financially speaking, wouldn't have had the ability to fund a 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:25.000 hobby like the one that I had. I was like 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:30.000 the total breadwinner in in my original relationship, and so 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.559 it wasn't a situation where I would have had any 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:37.640 latitude or flexibility. I would have been incredibly focused on 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:44.480 continuing to maintain financial stability in our situation. And also 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:47.400 I wouldn't have had the emotional bandwidth to do it. 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.200 I just wouldn't. I couldn't even watch sad movies like 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.199 that was the thing. That's when I knew, like, something 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.440 is very strange in this relationship. I can't even watch 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:59.240 emotional movies because they were so draining and so exhausting 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:03.800 for me. I had like zero emotional bandwidth to to 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:07.719 do anything other than hold my marriage together, and that 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.560 was so taxing to me. I would never have had 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:13.800 anything left to share with anyone else. How did you leave? 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:18.240 I think sometimes the hardest part about leaving is knowing 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.640 that you have to do it. That was the hardest 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.600 part for me. I was like, I love my husband, 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:26.640 I love him, Why the heck would I leave him? 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.440 Like you don't leave somebody that you love, and I 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:34.720 really loved him. And it wasn't until I think that 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:39.120 I felt there was a line that was crossed in 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.120 my own head where I was like, all right, now, like, 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:46.120 I really can't deny that the situation is not healthy 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.280 for either of us, and I wish that that line 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:53.240 had been much closer. But it took a lot for 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.720 me to say, all right, like I can't, I can't 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.720 pretend anymore like this is this is really wrong for 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:03.679 both of us, but particularly for me. And once that 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.720 line was crossed in some ways, it became a little 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.480 bit easier for me to just say, all right, I 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:13.280 have to now start taking steps to exit this relationship. 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.160 It wasn't overnight. I wish that I could say that 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:18.560 it was. But even after that line was crossed, I 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.240 was like, no, maybe we can make it work, like 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.520 with counseling and things like that, and I think seeing 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:27.600 a therapist. I did start seeing a marriage therapist by myself. 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.640 She was the one who was like, I will tell 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:33.280 you right now that this relationship is irretrievably broken. There's 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.679 nothing you can do to fix it. You just need 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.720 to start taking steps to leave. I came up with 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:43.080 an Excel spreadsheet that had multiple tabs and timelines and 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:47.960 goals and like within yes was within three months, you 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.160 will do this. Within six months, you will have done this, 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.640 and you know so like that was really helpful to 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.560 me to like put it down on paper. It became 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.680 very real once I saw that. And then once it 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:03.560 became real, the goal, the goal oriented Joanne, you know, 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:05.560 kicked into overdrive. I was like, well, if this is 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:07.000 for three months and I'm going to do it in 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.400 two months, If this is scheduled for six months, I'm 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.120 gonna do it in four months. And I gave myself 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.200 a year to exit the relationship, but I think I 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.120 ultimately did it in like six to seven months. And 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:22.800 what did your parents think? So I remember, this is 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:28.560 like a painful but also powerful memory. The day that 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:31.360 the night actually was like three in the morning that 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:35.160 things sort of crossed into a point of no return. 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.400 I remember I picked up my dog, my Daisy Girl 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.200 at the time, and I ran out of my house. 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.200 I was barefoot, I was in my pajamas, and I 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:52.640 was horrified by everything that had happened. And you know, 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:57.160 my my intent was just to get to my parents house, 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.360 who luckily lived in the same town house complexes I did. 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.920 And I was so nervous, even in my own heart, 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.080 to show up at their doorstep at three in the 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.040 morning with you know, no shoes, on and just my dog, 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.120 because I didn't want them to be frightened or nervous 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.200 for me. But I also knew that I couldn't stay 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:18.280 in my house under the circumstances. So I ran there 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:20.720 and I show up and you know, of course my 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.720 parents were sleeping. But my mom opens the door. And 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.000 this is not a new thing for my mom. I 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:29.200 had done it so many times, so immediately she knew 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:31.960 what was going on, and so she said, come on in. 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:36.920 And I was crying and hysterical and and I kept 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:38.960 saying I need to get a divorce. I need to 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.400 get a divorce. I can't do this. And she asked 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.720 me what happened, and I told her and and she said, yeah, 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.720 you need to get a divorce. And I remember this 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:53.200 so clearly because my mother she doesn't get angry at him. 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:57.240 She often gets angry at me for staying and always 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.200 going back. But I remember what she said that time. 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:05.240 And she said in Korean later on that night, if 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.080 he shows his face in front of me, I'm going 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.880 to beat the ship out of him. And that was 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:15.240 very telling for me because it showed me that my 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.080 mom was in a lot of pain over what was happening, 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:22.040 but she was also very much in my side. She 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.120 really took my side, and that was so important because 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:27.960 Asian parents, they don't always take your side. If you're 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.360 talking about divorce, that is not a thing that they're 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.880 really cool with. And I was very lucky that my 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:37.000 mom and even my dad were very supportive of me 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:41.040 leaving that marriage and starting a new life. You're really 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.160 open in your videos. Have you always been this open? 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:48.960 I think my personality is definitely more open than not. 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.960 I like talking to people a one on one. I'm 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.640 not good in crowds, as I'm sure you saw Amy, 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.480 I'm not good in crowds. I'm not good in large groups. 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:03.640 I'm very intensely shy in those settings. But when you 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.960 sit me down with one person, I love listening to people. 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.400 I like hearing them tell their stories. I like hearing 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.400 them tell me about, well, what did you do today, 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.520 what do you think is interesting? What is the struggle 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.120 of your heart right now? And I think the best 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.960 way to elicit that kind of information from a person 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:28.040 is sharing your own story, disarming them by disarming yourself, 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.040 saying hey, you can be vulnerable with me, and I'll 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.360 show you how I'll be vulnerable with you first, So 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.600 that is sort of my personality only because I think 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:42.320 that I really enjoy connecting on a deep level with people. 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:47.680 That said, I have also learned, particularly over the past year, 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.440 how taxing it can be on me emotionally and mentally 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:57.000 to always lay myself bare and also make myself susceptible 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:01.840 to criticism and gaslightinging and people who are just like, oh, 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.040 she's open, let's go attack her. I get that a 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.000 lot as well, So I think right now it's sort 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:12.560 of a lesson in trying to balance my vulnerability with 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:16.520 my own kind of mental health. And now a quick break, 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:22.800 What was your childhood? Like? Well, my childhood is really 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.440 safe and wonderful. I was just thinking about that today, 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:30.000 like how lucky I am um to have my parents 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.680 be such lovely and wonderful people. I know not all 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:37.200 parents are that, you know, like that I just lucked 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.720 out and had really wonderful, loving, safe environment. I was 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:42.520 just thinking today how much I missed my mom and 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.480 dad because I'm in California and they live in Chicago. 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:47.879 I was just there a couple of days ago for 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.399 an event and just sitting in my mother's sunlit dining 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.480 room and eating peeping pop with my mom and my 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:58.360 dad is just such an incredibly safe space for me. 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.159 And I was like, the only reason it's safe for 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.000 me today is because they made it safe for me 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.240 back when I was three, four or five, six, eight 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.040 years old, So it's a very safe environment. I had 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:12.120 both my grandmother's, my maternal and paternal grandmother in my 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:16.439 life very much. My paternal grandmother basically raised me between 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:20.000 the age of three and fourteen years old, and just 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.879 having her there and constantly guarding and protecting me was 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.920 really beautiful. But I think, like many immigrant children, because 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:31.040 my parents, you know, didn't speak English as well as 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.480 I did. My grandmother didn't speak any English at all. 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.040 Because of the adults in my life were not as 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:41.119 equipped to operate on the level that I saw on 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.960 television that I saw with my friends parents, I did 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:48.720 feel at times a little bit burdened to be an adult, 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.120 even when I was only eight or nine years old. 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.919 I had to do the things that other you know 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.440 kids parents did, like you know, read out loud the 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:01.040 permission slip and translated for them, or type up letters 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.800 from my father, or you know, get on the phone 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:07.359 with customer service and and handle things that I don't 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:10.199 know that many eight or nine year olds were doing, 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.480 um other than if their parents couldn't speak the language 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.000 as well. So there was a little bit of that, 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:20.560 and you know, but honestly, in retrospect, especially given what 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:24.080 children have to go through today, I had a wonderfully 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:28.920 safe and beautiful childhood. You have a video that kind 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:30.720 of talks a little bit about what you're talking about 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.680 right now and really goes into what's happening in the 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.119 A A p I community in America right now, where 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.199 we're seeing instances of hate crimes and violence, which I'm 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:44.760 sure we've always seen. You've become a voice in this community. 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:48.359 Did you do that intentionally? I think that I have 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:53.440 always been passionate about the eradication of racism. That's something 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:57.119 that has always been important to me. And somebody was 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.320 asking me, like, how do you find your passion? And 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.120 I'm like, well, for some of us, you just find 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.840 what makes really really mad and the opposite is your passion. 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:07.280 And that's how I, you know, that's how I became 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:12.560 passionate about abdicating on behalf of you know, UM, anti racism. Basically, 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.040 I just I just wish that there was no racism 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:17.760 in the world. That is my heart's desire, and so 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.320 on that side. It was just very natural for me 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:23.320 to tell stories with that in mind. I mean, that's 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:25.800 why I tell the stories about immigrant families. To the 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.160 extent that there are people out there who don't know 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.240 too much about what it's like being an immigrant family 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:34.320 in the United States, or may have less experience with it. 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:36.760 All I wanted to do was open them up to 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.879 thinking about, oh, well, things might be a little bit different. 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.520 Let me maybe explain to you how what I didn't 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:47.280 do on purpose and what I didn't expect was sort 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:53.439 of this avalanche of members of that community, um, you know, 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.679 children of immigrants or immigrants themselves reaching out to me 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:00.600 and saying, oh my god, I find only feel like 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:05.560 somebody's telling my story. I finally feel like somebody sees me, 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.960 and I'm so grateful for that. I didn't expect that. 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.120 That was not why I started doing what I did. 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.240 It's not why I started speaking out. It was very 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.960 new to me, and that was really important because they 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.440 think it helped me to focus a little bit more 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.479 about what my messaging needs to be. It helped me 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.880 to be more sensitive and careful about that new responsibility, 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:31.240 which is I want to make sure that everyone feels 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.560 included and safe in this space. And part of that 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:38.160 means that these people feel seen and heard. And so 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:42.640 it's not something that I did intentionally or by design, 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:45.960 but it's something that I take very very seriously. Now, 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:48.600 how is your life organized? I think that a lot 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.240 of our listeners who hear this, who might be in 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:55.000 more traditional careers, can't even fathom when it's like to 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.639 wake up every day without someone else creating that agenda. 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.760 And you have been on both sides, So how do 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:05.879 you organize your day, your week? I'm, you know, still 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:10.960 relatively new to this rather structuralist world, and it can 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:13.639 be daunting. Like at first, it's like, wow, this is 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:15.840 so great, I got to wake up and you know, 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.960 just do you do videos all day? How nice is that? 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:23.080 You know? But like when you don't have a strategy 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:26.040 and when you don't have a goal in mind, it 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:31.560 becomes a little bit um anxiety inducing, at least for me, 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:33.840 because I was like, well, what is the purpose of 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:36.200