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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy beat Wilson

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Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Fry. One of our episodes this week

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Speaker 1: was about paying versus the United States, also about the

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Speaker 1: Chinese Exclusion Act. Over the years, we've gotten several requests

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Speaker 1: to talk about the Chinese Exclusion Act, and it's always

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Speaker 1: been a little tricky because it's like that's something we've

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Speaker 1: talked about, is part of context so much. I feel

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Speaker 1: like we've talked about it so much. If you had

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Speaker 1: asked me without letting me look at the archive list,

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Speaker 1: I would child you week. Surely we've done that already, yeah, um.

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Speaker 1: And and so it's like it has come up most

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Speaker 1: of the time when we've been talking about sort of

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Speaker 1: the arc of immigration law and the arc of immigration

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Speaker 1: into the United States, and UH a lot of times

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Speaker 1: discrimination also it's been part of that whole context, and

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Speaker 1: with more lengthy discussions than things like the Delano grape

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Speaker 1: strike and the Executive Order six episodes UM, which then

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Speaker 1: are specifically about just discrimination against a specific group of

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Speaker 1: people that were sort of part of that whole process

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Speaker 1: of how the US was doing UH. Discriminating against different

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Speaker 1: groups of people, we're sometimes very similar groups of people

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Speaker 1: in the context of immigration. UM, I have found it

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Speaker 1: challenging to do episodes that are about a law, and

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Speaker 1: even with something like the Executive Order episodes, I kind

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Speaker 1: of look back on them and I'm like, I feel

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Speaker 1: like that's a little they came off as a little

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Speaker 1: impersonal and like this was a matter for policy discussion

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Speaker 1: and not a something that that meaningfully affected actual people.

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Speaker 1: And so when I chose this topic, I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: doing this m a out chi chomping will let us

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Speaker 1: focus more on a person and have this story be

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Speaker 1: contextualized through a person who has, you know, a face

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Speaker 1: and a life and a history. And then as I

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Speaker 1: got into it, I was like, wow, we know almost

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Speaker 1: nothing about this person besides that he was a laborer.

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Speaker 1: I'm not even really confident that we have a good

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Speaker 1: sense of what his name actually was, UM because I

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Speaker 1: could not find it written in Chinese anywhere, and all

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Speaker 1: of the places that it appears our court documents and

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Speaker 1: newspaper reports and who knows how that was romanized at

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Speaker 1: the time, and so I UM it was one of

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Speaker 1: those things where I was like, I have been totally

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Speaker 1: unsuccessful in what I was trying to achieve with the

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Speaker 1: selection of the focus for this topic. But I also

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Speaker 1: can't can't let it go. It's going to be an

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Speaker 1: episode now, there you go, Yeah it is. It's I

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Speaker 1: feel like in so many ways, I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: stating obvious the Chinese Exclusion Act has shaped this country

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Speaker 1: so significantly in ways that we don't always acknowledge or

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Speaker 1: think about. UM. I mean, particularly obviously on the Pacific Coast.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that it has come up in so

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Speaker 1: many episodes that I would have had done one on

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Speaker 1: it indicates how much of an impact it has had

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Speaker 1: and still has in many ways we don't We don't

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Speaker 1: know what our country would look like if these things

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Speaker 1: had not been done right right. UM. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that really became clear in my mind when we

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Speaker 1: were doing the episode on the Delano grape strike was

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Speaker 1: the cycle in UH in US history, but also specifically

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Speaker 1: on the West Coast and in California, about UH needing

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Speaker 1: cheap labor, trying to find a source for the cheap labor,

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Speaker 1: becoming reatened by that cheap labor source and banning it,

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Speaker 1: but then needing another source of cheap labor and going

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Speaker 1: through the exact same thing over again, and it's really

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Speaker 1: frustrating and disheartening to look at. And this episode similarly

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Speaker 1: clarified for me something that I have heard people say

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Speaker 1: so much over the last several years about how when

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Speaker 1: something horrific or offensive will happen in the news, and

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Speaker 1: people will say, this is not who we are, and

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Speaker 1: it's like, except it is, though, Like our very first

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Speaker 1: immigration law as a nation was about excluding Chinese people,

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Speaker 1: and then that law about excluding Chinese people fed into

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Speaker 1: the plinary power doctrine, which just, uh it is not

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Speaker 1: exactly a blank check for for Congress to legislate immigration

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Speaker 1: however it wants, but it's like pretty close to a

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Speaker 1: blank check. Yeah, it's it's depressing. You see how dehumanizing

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Speaker 1: that cycle is. Yeah, right, where it's like we don't

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Speaker 1: we only see you as means to and in not

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Speaker 1: as people with lives and interests and loves and families

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Speaker 1: of your own. So we gotta fix that problem, and

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Speaker 1: we'll make a new problem the exact same way, dehumanizing

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Speaker 1: another group of people. Um, yeah, it's free depressing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's definitely not one of them more uh positive episodes

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Speaker 1: to have been worked on in a while, but I

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Speaker 1: do thank everybody because it's been I would call it

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Speaker 1: a steady trickle of requests over a period of years

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Speaker 1: for an episode specifically about the Chinese Exclusion Act. And

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Speaker 1: although this episode wasn't just about the Chinese Exclusion Act,

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Speaker 1: I feel like it fits that bill if you do

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Speaker 1: want something that is specifically about the Chinese Exclusion Act

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Speaker 1: and its impact. The American Experience Documentary on the Chinese

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Speaker 1: Exclusion Act UH is as of when we're recording this,

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Speaker 1: which is on March, it is playing for free on

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Speaker 1: the PBS website. UM. It is extremely good. It's a

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Speaker 1: couple of hours long, so it's a it's a broader

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Speaker 1: look than we can really do in the context of

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Speaker 1: an episode of the show or even a two parter

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Speaker 1: on the show UM, and gets into aspects that we

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Speaker 1: didn't really talk about. UM. I also, last week It's

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Speaker 1: Blurred Together, went to a talk with several of the

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Speaker 1: people who were part of the American Experienced team. Was

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Speaker 1: a virtual talk about the Chinese Exclusion Act and anti

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Speaker 1: Asian hate in the US and how those things have

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Speaker 1: fed into one another. So UM, I highly highly recommend

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Speaker 1: that American Experienced documentary for anybody who has access to

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Speaker 1: the PBS website or PBS otherwise, um, which I I

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Speaker 1: think it's going to still be online by the time

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Speaker 1: this episode comes out. Fingers crossed. Uh. This week we

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Speaker 1: talked about the Tacoma A Narrows bridge. We did. We did,

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Speaker 1: so this is one that I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: history with because when I was a kid, I lived there.

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Speaker 1: Uh my dad was stationed at McCord. So, like all

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Speaker 1: of this feels very um, very I don't know if

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Speaker 1: hometowny is the right way. I haven't lived there in

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Speaker 1: a long long time, but very familiar and like a

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Speaker 1: little bit like home. UM. One thing the octopus story

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Speaker 1: gets me because I growing up there. We UM my

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Speaker 1: family has always liked fishing, and particularly deep sea fishing,

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Speaker 1: and we would take our boat out and pass through

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Speaker 1: the narrows, and we had so many friends who would

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Speaker 1: claim stories that a king octopus or a similar giant

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Speaker 1: Pacific octopus had suction to the bottom of their boat

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Speaker 1: as they were passing through the narrows and like one

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Speaker 1: of my dad's friends claimed he had to shoot it

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Speaker 1: off with a shotgun, and like crazy stories like people

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Speaker 1: love to talk about that octopus and I was a

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Speaker 1: little bit afraid of it. As a kid, I was

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Speaker 1: convinced an octopus was gonna suck us down as we

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Speaker 1: passed underneath the Narrows Bridge. Um. I will say, this

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Speaker 1: is not a delightful thing, but I'm glad it's over.

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Speaker 1: There was a period of time before I existed where

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Speaker 1: they would have octopus wrestling um there because of this

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Speaker 1: legend of the octopus where basically divers would go out

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Speaker 1: dive down to the wreckage of the bridge, try to

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Speaker 1: find an octopus and bring it back on land. Listen,

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Speaker 1: an octopus doesn't want to wrestle with you. It's literally

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Speaker 1: gonna gasp for air and you can put it back

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Speaker 1: in the water, which sometimes they did, or like it

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Speaker 1: will perish. And so eventually, after several decades of this,

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Speaker 1: which was apparently a big deal for a long time, UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, people started to realize this is not cool

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Speaker 1: and they stopped doing it. But it's one of those

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Speaker 1: things where I'm like, why did you ever think this was?

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Speaker 1: Humans do some strange stuff for entertainment, That's what I

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Speaker 1: can tell you. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think I've

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Speaker 1: probably driven across that bridge one time. Because I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure one of the times that I went to the

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Speaker 1: Seattle area to visit my brother and sister in law,

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Speaker 1: we um went to a restaurant in Tacoma. Logically we

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Speaker 1: would have driven across the bridge to get there, but

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Speaker 1: I have no recollection of it otherwise. So you're telling me, no, no,

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Speaker 1: octopus came to visit. You came to visit. Um. No,

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Speaker 1: we saw an octopus at the aquarium though. That was Listen,

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Speaker 1: those g pos are cute. Yeah, I am a big

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Speaker 1: fan of the of the octopus in general, and GPOs

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Speaker 1: are really fascinating. They are I have had the good

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Speaker 1: fortune at one point in my life to interact with one.

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Speaker 1: They're like kiddies of the sea, Like they want to

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Speaker 1: be petted. They'll wrap their tentacle around you and like,

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Speaker 1: you know, let you stroke them. And allegedly they can

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Speaker 1: identify people by smell, so like and taste, so they'll

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Speaker 1: taste your skin. And if you were to go visit

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Speaker 1: that same octopus again, it would be like, oh, you're Holly,

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Speaker 1: You're that person that is weird and loves me. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to hug you, please get away. Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a It's an interesting thing, right you. There's so

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Speaker 1: much sort of legend around it, and I remember my

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Speaker 1: parents talking about the bridge falling as this almost like

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Speaker 1: a spooky story, even though they didn't live in Washington

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Speaker 1: when that happened. They would have been tiny if that

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Speaker 1: had been the case. Anyway. Um, it's very It's one

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Speaker 1: of those things, um that I have such strong childhood

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Speaker 1: memories of this particular bridge and all of the lore

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Speaker 1: around it. So it was very fun to like dig

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Speaker 1: in and really look at, Like I said in the episode,

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Speaker 1: the bureaucracy of the whole thing. Um, that insurance fraud

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Speaker 1: situation was a fabulous gem that I had not known previously. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I also liked the we're gonna make a corporation so

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Speaker 1: that we can get more loan money, but then we're

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Speaker 1: going to sell the bridge back to the county. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of dicey weirdness involved there. Um, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of dicey weirdness involved in a lot of

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Speaker 1: projects of this nature. That's particularly stuck out at me

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Speaker 1: right um in a sort of sad thing. I think

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Speaker 1: it was his granddaughter, Leon MOSE's granddaughter who really said

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Speaker 1: like her father who was working with her grandfather at

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Speaker 1: the time. Truly believed that, like the stress of this

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Speaker 1: whole thing was what led to his heart attack shortly thereafter,

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Speaker 1: which I can imagine, you know, if you are that

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Speaker 1: associated with that many large scale projects that all function

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Speaker 1: the same way as the one that catastrophically fails and

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Speaker 1: mercifully did not claim any human life, like you're just

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Speaker 1: waiting for the other ship, probably spend the rest of

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Speaker 1: my life being terrified. Yeah, yeah, I um, he's an

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Speaker 1: interesting figure. I didn't get into it a lot in

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Speaker 1: this episode, but he's a very divisive figure people. There

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Speaker 1: are people that still paint him as sort of the

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Speaker 1: villain of the piece. But like, there is also an

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Speaker 1: award named after him, um for you know, like great

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Speaker 1: achievement in engineering. So he has also lauded for, you know,

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Speaker 1: his incredible contributions to engineering in infrastructure in the the

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Speaker 1: US and abroad. So that's a whole, other, whole, other

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Speaker 1: interesting thanks story. He could probably be an episode on

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Speaker 1: his own. I don't know that Olliver do that one,

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Speaker 1: but it's a it's worth examining at some point for

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Speaker 1: people if they do never just want to dig into

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Speaker 1: that whole story. Yea, yeah, but the octopus octopus. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm grateful. This is one of those things we

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Speaker 1: can talk about that is a catastrophe and not a

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Speaker 1: horrible tragedy, right since people did mercifully get off the bridge. Um,

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Speaker 1: there are debates about who was the last vehicle off

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Speaker 1: the bridge, so I didn't include that because there's not

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Speaker 1: a consensus on that matter. Um. It is really fascinating

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Speaker 1: to watch that footage of you know, people crawling to

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Speaker 1: get to safety because they cannot walk. It's moving so much,

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Speaker 1: even in its slowed down footage, which is the more accurate,

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Speaker 1: I still can't imagine trying to like put one foot

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Speaker 1: in front of the other on that situation. No. I

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Speaker 1: think one of the reasons that um, a lot of

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Speaker 1: the footage and descriptions of this bridge really stuck with

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Speaker 1: me is that when I was a kid, I was

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Speaker 1: terrified of heights. So the idea of a bridge sort

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Speaker 1: of shredding itself to pieces underneath me in a high

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Speaker 1: place was like particularly scary. Yeah. Um yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I would have to ask people I knew when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid that that were there after I had

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Speaker 1: moved away. I moved away long before I started to drive.

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Speaker 1: But similarly, I moved to another place that had a

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Speaker 1: long bridge, um in northwest Florida, and I remember when

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Speaker 1: you got your driver's license, driving across that bridge was

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Speaker 1: kind of one of those things where like people were

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Speaker 1: a little afraid to do it, but eventually always did.

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Speaker 1: And I imagine the same thing has held true for

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Speaker 1: the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, even even though it is, you know,

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Speaker 1: a much bigger structure. Um. I mean, I know the

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Speaker 1: first time I drove across the Golden Gate Bridge, and

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Speaker 1: I was a fully grown adult that had a lot

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Speaker 1: of driving under my belt at that point, I still

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Speaker 1: had that moment of, like, if one thing goes wrong. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When when I was a kid, my mom and I

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Speaker 1: would take uh, like weekend trips together sometimes, and we

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Speaker 1: like to go to the the mountains of western North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: And there is a thing on the Blue Ridge Parkway

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming it's still there, called the Lynn Cove Viaduct,

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Speaker 1: and it's a long bridge that goes around the side

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Speaker 1: of the mountain and we would just turn around before

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Speaker 1: we had to cross it. Anytime we took that trip.

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Speaker 1: This is as far as we go. Yeah, uh, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the driving and conditions like that is scary, even if

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Speaker 1: you are a seasoned driver, if you have any anxiety

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Speaker 1: at all, you cannot help but start playing through the

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Speaker 1: here's what could go wrong. What if some of the

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Speaker 1: driver loses control and pushes me out? What if I

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Speaker 1: lose control? What if I have some cerebral event and

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Speaker 1: I lose control of the car and take other people

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Speaker 1: like I mean, I don't know about other people, but

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Speaker 1: all of that plays out in rapid motion in my

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Speaker 1: head the second I get on a long bridge and

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Speaker 1: I love to drive, and I'll still do it. Feel

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Speaker 1: the fear, but do it anyway. Um, but yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a fascinating I also love that they didn't

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Speaker 1: think this was gonna be a heavily trafficked bridge, And

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Speaker 1: it's like we had to we had to add another bridge,

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Speaker 1: right because now it is very heavily trafficked. Obviously, times

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Speaker 1: have changed and population density has shifted and the amount

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Speaker 1: of people commuting has shifted. But two lanes will be fine.

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Speaker 1: That will do us. Uh. So, hopefully you don't have

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Speaker 1: any scary driving scenarios and you are about to enjoy

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Speaker 1: a wonderful weekend. If you have time off, I hope

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Speaker 1: you make the most of it and you get to

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Speaker 1: rule Bax and enjoy it. If you do not get

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Speaker 1: the luxury of time off this weekend, I hope that

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Speaker 1: whatever your endeavors or occupations are go smoothly and that

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Speaker 1: everyone treats you kindly and that we are all staying safe.

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Speaker 1: We'll see you right back here tomorrow with a classic

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Speaker 1: and Monday with a new episode. Stuff you Missed in

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Speaker 1: History Class is a production of I heart Radio. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.