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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the show. My name is Matt, my name is

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Speaker 1: they call me Ben. We are joined as always with

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Speaker 1: our super producer Paul, Mission controlled dec and most importantly,

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Speaker 1: you are you. You are here and that makes this

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. How are you doing? Guys?

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Speaker 1: Everybody got their kidneys, their important bits still attached within

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Speaker 1: or adjacent to them. God, I hope so as far

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Speaker 1: as I can tell, you know, I really just kind

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Speaker 1: of push in and I feel like it's there. Did

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Speaker 1: you all ever have your appendix taken out or your

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Speaker 1: tonsils removed? I have never had any form of invasive

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Speaker 1: surgery at all, and it frankly terrifies me. Same actually

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Speaker 1: no wisdom teeth. I've been putting that off. Actually they've

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Speaker 1: told me for years that I need to get them out.

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Speaker 1: I haven't done it yet because it freaks me out.

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Speaker 1: I think maybe the emotional distress beforehand and going right

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Speaker 1: in is is probably worse thing. Yeah, just suck it

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Speaker 1: up and be a man and do it. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it's psych it up. Maybe you'll feel better,

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Speaker 1: maybe not. It's one of those things you can put

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Speaker 1: off until your mouth starts hurt. Any you've you've had

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Speaker 1: like at least one thing right where you've had to

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Speaker 1: go under, do you recall it, Like? What was it like?

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Speaker 1: Was that experience like for me? Great? Honestly, honestly, I've

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Speaker 1: had I've had a number of operations that were not

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Speaker 1: related to one another, and in each case things went swimmingly.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you lose time you go under. You

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Speaker 1: wake up and you're fine, or you feel fine, you're

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Speaker 1: probably really high. So I remember when I had my

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Speaker 1: wisdom teeth taken out. I cannot remember which year this was,

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Speaker 1: but it was definitely in the US, after the country

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Speaker 1: was formed, and and uh, I thought I was I

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Speaker 1: thought I was fine, And I didn't understand why you can't.

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Speaker 1: You're not allowed to know, operate a heavy machinery, drive

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Speaker 1: a car, flat helicopter, whatever your method of transportation is.

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Speaker 1: And so I thought it was fine until I walked

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Speaker 1: out of the dentist office and then stumbled and sat

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Speaker 1: on the steps and thought I'm gonna be here for

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Speaker 1: a while to get a ride though you just you

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Speaker 1: just do You didn't go for that, No, I I

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Speaker 1: lied about it. But it is a moment of being conscious,

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Speaker 1: then you're not aware of anything, and then you come

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Speaker 1: back all of a sudden, Well there's a fade. I

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Speaker 1: think you know, the feeling of falling asleep, but it's

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Speaker 1: a precipitous drop off, so it feels like maybe you're

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Speaker 1: about to doze, and then you wake up usually now.

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Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, there are some genetic markers that show anesthesia

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Speaker 1: affects people in markedly, markedly different ways. For example, people

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Speaker 1: who have the redhead gene, you and I for exampia. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we we have the potential to require more anesthesia than

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Speaker 1: the average person. But I don't know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what what the correlation is there. Do you have to

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Speaker 1: be full redhead or do you have to be what

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Speaker 1: South Park we call a day walker? If you guys

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Speaker 1: remember that, so I am very I'm very glad to

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Speaker 1: hear that you guys have not had terrible surgical experiences,

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Speaker 1: and luckily in this country, at least in the United States,

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Speaker 1: for those who can afford to pay the tab the

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Speaker 1: surgery or the surgical environment rather is not as fatal

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Speaker 1: as at once. What's and it used to be an

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Speaker 1: absolute abatois, But we want to hear your weirdest, uh,

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Speaker 1: your weirdest surgery experiences. When we start that way, you

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Speaker 1: can pause the podcast at any point and call us

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Speaker 1: the directly. We are one eight three three s T

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Speaker 1: D W y t K. Leave a message. You get

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Speaker 1: three minutes. If you can't fit it in, then that

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Speaker 1: amount of time just to call back. And as always,

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Speaker 1: let us know if you do not want this to

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Speaker 1: be on air, If this is just for us a

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Speaker 1: mission control, that's fine, just be very clear about that.

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Speaker 1: So we are talking about surgery today. We are talking

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Speaker 1: about one of the most controversial types of surgery, which

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Speaker 1: is the replacement or transplant of organs, the organ trade,

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Speaker 1: the organ trail, I think is the worst joke we

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Speaker 1: made in a previous episode about this. Here here's the problem.

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Speaker 1: Until we as a species learn how to reliably grow

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Speaker 1: new organs from scratch, millions of people across the planet

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Speaker 1: are dying and are going to die as they wait

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Speaker 1: for viable replacement organs and donors. At least it is

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Speaker 1: according to the official story into a show. We're exploring

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Speaker 1: a dark corner of an already very murky trade, the

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Speaker 1: semi legal or completely illegal industry, known to some as

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Speaker 1: the red market. And we we have some previous stuff

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Speaker 1: on this the red Market. We got the title from this,

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Speaker 1: this fantastic book that looks at the semi legal and

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Speaker 1: illegal oregan trade. The red market is not is not

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Speaker 1: related to legitimate organ transplant or donation processes. The way

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Speaker 1: the legit stuff works in most countries is the following process.

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Speaker 1: Somebody opts in to donate an organ, usually upon their death.

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Speaker 1: If you're in the US and you get a driver's license,

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Speaker 1: you get that question, do you agree to be an

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Speaker 1: organ donor? In some states you get a discount if

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Speaker 1: you agree to be an organ donor? Right, but after,

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Speaker 1: let's say something tragic happens when dies in a car accident,

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Speaker 1: right or they have a they have a heart attack. Oh,

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Speaker 1: we should mention that too many people have the miskans

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Speaker 1: sception that if you sign up to be an organ

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Speaker 1: donor on your driver's license, it only applies to auto accidents.

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Speaker 1: It does not you go down for any reason. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and you've got viable organs boom boom boom there as

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Speaker 1: long as you didn't explode or die of you know,

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Speaker 1: poison or a terrible disease. I don't know why people

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Speaker 1: would think that that's interesting. Um, yeah, I always assumed

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Speaker 1: it was. You know, for all intents and purposes, these

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Speaker 1: organs belong to the people. It's very strange, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the idea that someone someone would say, well, my

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Speaker 1: kidneys are still going to be mine because I tripped

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Speaker 1: and fell or something like that. It's strange. But maybe

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Speaker 1: it's a comforting thing because our organs are very personal

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Speaker 1: parts of ourselves and our identities. But this also is

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Speaker 1: an important point. Today's topic is about a system of

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Speaker 1: government that does not have such safeguards in place. We

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Speaker 1: get to check a box on a card that says

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Speaker 1: we choose to donate our organs. That is not the

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Speaker 1: case with today's episode. It's certainly more complicated than that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in some cases, just just for a full clid text here.

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Speaker 1: In some cases there are countries that will require you

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Speaker 1: to opt out of being an organ donor. With some

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Speaker 1: European countries recently did that. I have no problem with that. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a psychological move because it massively increases

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Speaker 1: the number of people who become organ donors, not because

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Speaker 1: of informed consent. It's because they didn't read the entire thing,

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Speaker 1: which is weird. I can't think of any reason why

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to be an organ donor. For most people,

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Speaker 1: it's religious. Yeah, for most people it's religious, or you know,

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Speaker 1: it goes into the method of burial or uh, you

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Speaker 1: know what's cremation creation, perhaps burial, let's sea or you know,

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Speaker 1: you can't be embalmed things like that. It's it's along

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Speaker 1: the same list. The Red Market, however, is in news

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Speaker 1: much more recently now. You can even you you've probably

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Speaker 1: seen this popping up in your news feed whatever, your

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Speaker 1: news feed of choices today while we're recording this. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: it was on the front page of Reddit today. As

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Speaker 1: we go in, this story takes us to the red

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Speaker 1: market in the People's Republic of China. So here are

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Speaker 1: the facts about China's official oregan donation system. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: certainly have one of the largest transplant programs in the

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Speaker 1: entire world, and a lot of that is just a

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Speaker 1: factor of the number of human beings that exist within China.

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Speaker 1: But we do have some numbers about estimates that come

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Speaker 1: officially from the Chinese government, and these go back to

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Speaker 1: two thousand four, this first one, right in two thousand four,

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Speaker 1: they estimated that over thirteen thousand transplants were performed, and

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Speaker 1: then in two thousand six they estimated that as many

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Speaker 1: as twenty thousand transplants had been performed. And remember those

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Speaker 1: are official estimates from the government, and though, and that's

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Speaker 1: way back in two thousand four, two thousand six, and

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Speaker 1: you can only imagine that as population has grown over time,

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Speaker 1: those numbers have risen tremendously. Well, you can see, you

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Speaker 1: can see it almost bubbles across two years, even officially.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's something else. You would think, with so

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Speaker 1: many people waiting in line for an organ, that the

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Speaker 1: waiting time would would be a matter of years, right,

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Speaker 1: and you're sort of racing the clock of your body's

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Speaker 1: decay and the availability of an organ donor of some sort.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing. The waiting time for an organ

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Speaker 1: transplant in China is cartoonishly low. It is by far

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Speaker 1: the lowest amount of waiting time on the planet. As

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Speaker 1: often organ tourists o r g A and tourist, which

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Speaker 1: is a thing reported receiving kidney transplants within days of

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Speaker 1: arriving in the country. Days You can tell people what

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Speaker 1: organ uh what oregan tourists are just simple as it is,

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Speaker 1: traveling to another country to obtain an organ that you

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Speaker 1: can't because you're on a waiting list perhaps in your

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Speaker 1: own country, or it would cost too much, there was

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Speaker 1: some preventive reason that you cannot get an organ in

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Speaker 1: your home country. Right, it's this city. It's it's a

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Speaker 1: subset of medical tourism because the United States has is

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Speaker 1: home to quite a few medical tours who are going

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Speaker 1: out of necessity. You know this, This country has great

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Speaker 1: specialized health care for those who can afford it, but

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Speaker 1: an operation that may cost tens of thousands of dollars

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Speaker 1: here may cost you know, much less just in Canada

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Speaker 1: or Mexico. So, I mean, this problem is not reported

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Speaker 1: as much as it should be in the US because

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Speaker 1: I think it gets wrapped up in uh politicized conversations,

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Speaker 1: especially during election cycles. And we're sort of always in

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Speaker 1: an election cycle now. But can you imagine you need

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Speaker 1: a kidney You can wait what three to five years

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Speaker 1: maybe more here in the US, or you can fly

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Speaker 1: to China pay pay more, maybe than you would for

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Speaker 1: the kidney itself, but you know, within a week or

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Speaker 1: two your your parts have been replaced, like the six

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Speaker 1: million dollar man. There was a report produced by these researchers,

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Speaker 1: David Maddison David Kilgore, which cited the China International Transplantation

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Speaker 1: Assistance Center as saying, again this is the actual official

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Speaker 1: source quote, it may only take one week to find

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Speaker 1: the suitable donor, the maximum time being one month. WHOA again,

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Speaker 1: let's compare that to other countries. Okay, So to do that,

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Speaker 1: we have to look at the median waiting times for

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Speaker 1: an organ transplantation UH in somewhere like Australia, which is,

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Speaker 1: for example, six months to four years. Canada you're looking

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Speaker 1: at six years, that says eleven and in the UK

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Speaker 1: it's three years. China UM swears up and down that

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Speaker 1: it sticks to these international standards. These medical standards require

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Speaker 1: organ donations to be done by consent and without any

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Speaker 1: UM users financial charges. And on the surface, that's seems legit,

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Speaker 1: I guess right, but there's a lot more at play here.

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Speaker 1: On the first glance, people are saving lives. It's hard

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Speaker 1: to argue that that's a bad thing. But let's let's

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Speaker 1: let's slow our role a little bit real quick, and

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Speaker 1: let's look at where this extraordinary speed comes from. It

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Speaker 1: ain't for free, right right, And I love that you're

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Speaker 1: pointing out the the idea of informed consent and not

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Speaker 1: having financial charges. Longtime listeners will remember we looked at

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Speaker 1: the uh just repugnant practice of some some unethical organ

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Speaker 1: procurers in the Indian subcontinent where they'll pay somebody what

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Speaker 1: the equivalent of a couple hundred bucks to take their kidney,

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Speaker 1: and then they'll jack up the price the thousands and thousands.

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Speaker 1: You can see entire villages of people who all have

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Speaker 1: the same identical scar on their left or right side.

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Speaker 1: So if you find someone who is in dire financial

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Speaker 1: straits and you offer them a little bit of cash,

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Speaker 1: it's not really informed scent. And as you said, there

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Speaker 1: is a price to this extraordinary speed. First, as as

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Speaker 1: you pointed out, Matt, the official numbers from the government

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Speaker 1: do not match with the estimates from international organizations. A

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Speaker 1: study in the Journal Clinical Transplantation said that only four

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Speaker 1: percent of oregan transplant experts believed procurement processes in China

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Speaker 1: were ethically sound, so they asked do you think the

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Speaker 1: government is telling you the truth about this? Do you

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Speaker 1: think they're on the up and up? And four percent

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Speaker 1: of people said yeah, sure, I don't know. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if that this is just my It was like it's

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Speaker 1: like weird skeptical anti skeptical thing where it's like, I

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Speaker 1: wonder how many of those people were just like why

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Speaker 1: there's no way for me to tell so I can't

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Speaker 1: say yes. Well, I mean it goes back to that

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Speaker 1: old expression about you know products. For example, you can

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Speaker 1: have something fast, you can have something cheap, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have something good. You can have two of them at

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Speaker 1: the same time, but you definitely can't have all three

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Speaker 1: of them at the same time. And this Chinese system

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Speaker 1: see us to purport that you get all three. And

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Speaker 1: that is when you're being sold of a bill of

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Speaker 1: goods typically, right. I always wonder where that statement comes from,

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Speaker 1: always think about that earlier. I haven't looked it up yet,

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Speaker 1: but when someone sold a bill of goods, what does

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Speaker 1: that mean? Well, this has come up before and I

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Speaker 1: feel like we found out the answer, But now I

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Speaker 1: think I think what it had to do with like

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Speaker 1: a bill of goods is like a shipping list of

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Speaker 1: like stuff that would be in the hull of a ship.

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Speaker 1: And I think sometimes if you're sold a bill of goods,

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Speaker 1: it implies that you're being sold the promise of something,

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Speaker 1: but not the thing itself. There we go, well, put, okay,

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Speaker 1: that makes sense. So there's another factor here. The World

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Speaker 1: Health Organization or WHO, which is again the coolest initialism

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Speaker 1: out there, has figures suggesting that around ten percent of

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Speaker 1: transplants in this country occurred via transplant tourism in at

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Speaker 1: least in two thousand and five, and China was the

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Speaker 1: leading destination for patients out of all the other countries

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Speaker 1: in the world. Second, when health officials in China launched

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Speaker 1: a now shoal donation system in two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 1: the government itself reported that two thirds of organ donors

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Speaker 1: could be traced to one demographic and one demographic alone

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Speaker 1: prisoners who were executed in the Chinese incarceration system. And

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Speaker 1: that's the official number. That's the official number. It's a

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Speaker 1: little bit north of sixty. And we must keep in

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Speaker 1: mind again international experts have been claiming these numbers are

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Speaker 1: ginned up in lobald for years. The authorities had previously

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Speaker 1: acknowledged that Cornea's kidneys and other body parts come from

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Speaker 1: criminals and that they've been successfully transplanted. But this was

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Speaker 1: the first official acknowledgement of the extent of this practice.

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Speaker 1: When they said, oh, well, we said sometimes in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, they didn't admit it in the seven It

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Speaker 1: was happening in the seventies of but it wasn't admitted

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Speaker 1: to uh, they said, when we said sometimes, we meant

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Speaker 1: two thirds at the time, which is still not all

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Speaker 1: the time. So it's sometimes. But if when you're saying

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Speaker 1: two thirds of even the official numbers that are low balled,

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Speaker 1: you're talking thousands of people. And here's why they created

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Speaker 1: the system. They were hoping that this new plan would

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Speaker 1: tackle the thriving black market in body parts and encourage

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Speaker 1: voluntary donation, which you know, as we mentioned it, it

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Speaker 1: remains far below demand in the country, partially due to

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Speaker 1: social taboos and mores and partially due to some religious reasons. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: so it is largely designed for this medical tourism. It's

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Speaker 1: this system is officially supposed to encourage more people to

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Speaker 1: be donors, but the system, the way it functions, yes,

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Speaker 1: does appear it is very it's a very long reach.

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Speaker 1: It's a walk around a long block to say that

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Speaker 1: this is not purposely designed for Oregon tourism. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: get deeper into the deeds behind that. Yeah, unfortunately, we

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Speaker 1: will as strap in, folks, hold your kidneys, your heart,

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Speaker 1: your corny, as your liver close, because we're going in

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Speaker 1: the state. Newspaper China Daily said about one million people

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Speaker 1: needed transplants each year, but only one received them, and

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Speaker 1: at the time, the Vice Minister for Health in China,

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Speaker 1: Huang Jifu said, transplants, this is a quote. Transplants should

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Speaker 1: not be a privilege for the rich. And uh, he

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Speaker 1: said that there were these you know, whenever a condemned

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Speaker 1: to prisoner was going to be donating their organ there

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Speaker 1: was written consent that was required to be taken from

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Speaker 1: them or or acquired by from them. And he added

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Speaker 1: that they were definitely not a proper source for organ transplants.

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Speaker 1: So that's interesting. Uh, the the vice Minister for Health

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Speaker 1: in China saying that that the prisoners condemned to death

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Speaker 1: prisoners were not a proper source for organ transplants. He

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Speaker 1: also ended up telling a newspaper outlet or you know,

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Speaker 1: a media outlet China Daily that somehow spitals actually ignored

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Speaker 1: the rules because of the high profits that they could

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Speaker 1: acquire by doing things a different way, right, and the

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Speaker 1: newspaper said that there were experts. Experts they're the estimated

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Speaker 1: that more than sixty percent of donors were actually criminals

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Speaker 1: who had received the death penalty. So again the two

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Speaker 1: thirds number of pops up in a couple of different sources.

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Speaker 1: What's interesting is that years earlier, the government ruled the

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Speaker 1: organs from executed prisoners would only be given to family members,

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Speaker 1: and that living donors could only give body parts to

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Speaker 1: relatives or to those with whom they shared A quote

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Speaker 1: emotional connection that sounds like, well, think about like you

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Speaker 1: have a you have a relative or something that well

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Speaker 1: this is let me let me compare it this way.

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Speaker 1: You have an in law maybe and you, unlike all

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Speaker 1: the stereotypical jokes, you love your father in law, your

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Speaker 1: mother in law, and you're a donor match. So you

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Speaker 1: say I want to give them my kidney, and they

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Speaker 1: say you're not They're not kind, they're not really a

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Speaker 1: biological family members. You can you can claim that you

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Speaker 1: can you get to define the emotional connection yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would be able to. I am going to give

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Speaker 1: ban my kidney because I love him. Thank you, thank you,

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Speaker 1: and uh that's that's true. And all you have a

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Speaker 1: you have a good heart. I don't know where you

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Speaker 1: got if you can't have it, though, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to know. I'm talking about the other one. But how

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Speaker 1: are those kidneys doing? Are they okay? They're a little

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Speaker 1: I comed them up a little bit, road harder put

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Speaker 1: away a way. Uh yeah, it's it's true. Emotional connection

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Speaker 1: gives you some leeway, you know, some ownership over where

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Speaker 1: you want your body parts to go. In theory, the

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Speaker 1: percentage of transplants from living donors has risen from fifteen

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Speaker 1: percent two thousand and six to in two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 1: and it seems to continue ticking up, which is a problem.

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Speaker 1: According to a professor Chen Jong Hwa in the Institute

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Speaker 1: of Organ Transplantation at tongues You a hospital, only one

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty people on the main land of China,

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Speaker 1: which has a population of one point three billion again

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Speaker 1: had signed up to donate their organs after they died.

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Speaker 1: Only one hundred and thirty out of more than a billion.

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Speaker 1: That's how few people that's that's how passionate people are

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Speaker 1: about keeping their organs after death. And to be fair, though,

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Speaker 1: that was in two thousand three, um, fairly early on

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Speaker 1: in that process, or at least earlier, right, right, So

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Speaker 1: the numbers today are kind of tricky. You can find

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Speaker 1: sources that will that's the thing. It's tough to find

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Speaker 1: official sources that will say numbers that transparently. So we

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Speaker 1: have to rely upon in country experts or people with experience,

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Speaker 1: which means that we're also we're also possibly reading their agenda,

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Speaker 1: which goes, aren't we always though? I don't know? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe, maybe you're right. So these stories of foreigners

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Speaker 1: traveling to China just for organ transplants for were rife.

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Speaker 1: They were rumors for a long time, but when China

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Speaker 1: Daily was reporting on this, they added a little bit

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Speaker 1: more fuel to the fire and they said that there

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Speaker 1: was an entire industry of middlemen who specialized in faking

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Speaker 1: documents to evade the law. And faking a document could

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Speaker 1: be everything from your official purpose to China if you

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Speaker 1: want to hide that fact, to a fake consent form

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Speaker 1: when they say, okay, well you know this person just

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Speaker 1: signed this document and then they said it's fine. They

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Speaker 1: said you're a loved one, They said, you have an

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Speaker 1: emotional connection. At the time, citizens could pay up to

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Speaker 1: two thousand yuan for a kidney. That was a little

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Speaker 1: under twenty thousand pounds, so excessive excess of for a

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Speaker 1: kidney in the US at those prices, right, the US dollars.

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Speaker 1: And then we have a new development you mentioned earlier.

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Speaker 1: Matt Hauling Jaffou, the former minister. In February he said

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Speaker 1: he was retired. He said that from January one, organ

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Speaker 1: donation from voluntary civilian organ donors has become the only

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Speaker 1: legitimate source of transplantation. And people interpreted this as a

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Speaker 1: ban on the use of organs from executed prisoners. So

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Speaker 1: no more, yeah, he said the he said, it's the

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Speaker 1: only legitimate source. Right, It's like the pursuit of happiness. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So the piece isn't he the guy that also said

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Speaker 1: that it shouldn't be a privilege just for the rich guy.

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Speaker 1: So here's the thing. I mean, you can say stuff

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Speaker 1: like that all day long, and you can try to

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Speaker 1: put safeguards in place, but when it comes to something

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Speaker 1: so scarce, anything that that you know, thrives on scarcity,

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Speaker 1: it's always going to become a market like that that

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Speaker 1: favors the rich, because that's just how it is. That's

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Speaker 1: how people work, that's how money works, and these systems work.

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Speaker 1: So it's one thing for him to say that, But

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Speaker 1: how can you really, you know, put an end to

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Speaker 1: that human need of like, well, I have more money,

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Speaker 1: therefore I deserve to get better treatment. I deserve to

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Speaker 1: get like first in line or whatever to live exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I agree, economy is the dominant religious paradigm of this age.

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Speaker 1: And these are the effects that happen when you know

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Speaker 1: you have zealous people participating in a religion. If you

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Speaker 1: think the economy is not a religion, I would love

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Speaker 1: to hear your argument. Why tell me why they differ?

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Speaker 1: There you go, that's I don't know. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to say it's a hill I'll die on.

401
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Speaker 1: But we've asked this question before and there there aren't

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Speaker 1: that many differences. And this is not a ding on religion.

403
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Speaker 1: It's not ding on economy, but the belief that things

404
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Speaker 1: should be determined by these sorts of economic systems. But

405
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Speaker 1: we're all playing this guy in a nice game when

406
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Speaker 1: we say that they're different It's sort of like the

407
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Speaker 1: old thing about how ridiculous it will look to future

408
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Speaker 1: historians when we think about driving on the inter state.

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Speaker 1: You know, we were in these death machines that went

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Speaker 1: in excess of eighty miles an hour. How did you

411
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Speaker 1: not hit each other? How did you not kill each other?

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Speaker 1: We did all the time, But there were lines, We

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Speaker 1: had these, this honor system of painted lines. Oh did

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Speaker 1: the lines stop? You know? No, you just you kind

415
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Speaker 1: of agreed that these other strangers piloting their own death

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Speaker 1: machines would also adhere to the honor system of the line.

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Speaker 1: When you put it like that, and be really scared

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Speaker 1: to drive because nobody follows the honor system. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you guys have been driving around in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: Holy Lord, and you know that same idea applies to this.

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Speaker 1: Nobody followed this on our system either didn't right, the

422
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Speaker 1: money gets too good, the pieces come together. So with

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Speaker 1: just this high level look, we can already see some

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Speaker 1: issues the official government statements are not jibing with statements

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Speaker 1: from NGOs and other international institutions. We can also see,

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Speaker 1: as you pointed out, all the huge economic incentive for

427
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Speaker 1: cheating the system, and then There's another question where exactly

428
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Speaker 1: are all these organs coming from? Most importantly, what if

429
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: the government of China never stopped getting organs from executive prisoners.

430
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,719
Speaker 1: Even more disturbingly, what if the government of China is

431
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: no longer waiting for these prisoners to die? Oh guess what,

432
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: it's time for a sponsor break. After that, monsters, here's

433
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. That's right, that's right, conspiracy realist,

434
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: you did not misshear us. We are talking about on

435
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: demand executions. Rumors about executions for the express purposes of

436
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 1: harvesting organs have dogged the Chinese government for decades. Decades

437
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: and decades back to I think the earliest reports are

438
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, but they existed for a long

439
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: time on the fringe of mainstream debate. This recently changed.

440
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: An independent tribunal seated in London was assembled to investigate

441
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: the truth, if any, about this countrywide conspiracy to execute

442
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: people and harvest their organs. Is called the Independent Tribunal

443
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: Enforced Organ Harvesting from Prisoners of Conscious in China, and

444
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: it reached some ugly, ugly conclusions. We do have to

445
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: say this is technically an in GEO and non governmental organization.

446
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: That's one of the main objections China has with it.

447
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: So there was an interim judgment that was released in

448
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: December of that stated that, beyond a doubt, forced oregan

449
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: harvesting from prisoners has taken place quote on a substantial

450
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: scale by state support or approved organizations and individuals. And

451
00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 1: then further um noted that the findings were indicative of

452
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: essentially genocide. Um though it was not clear enough to

453
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: make a positive ruling. Right, And so some people may

454
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: say genocide, guys, isn't that a bit alarmist? Let's let's

455
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: remember what genocide is. Genocide is the eradication of a

456
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: large group of people, especially from a particular ethnic group

457
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: or a nation, or in some cases religion of religion. Right,

458
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: So this is don't have any of that here, though,

459
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: do we even? I mean, we don't don't see any

460
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: of those Oh wait, we do, don't we? Which one

461
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: that one of those groups is involved? Here? Oh? Yes, yes,

462
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: that's absolutely right. Yeah, I thought you here is in

463
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: the US. No. No, I just meant, like, you know,

464
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds to me like they're saying genocide.

465
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 1: That's a real buzzy term. We need a little bit more,

466
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: you know, proof that this is happening, like in order

467
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: we need like a target of said genocide. Right, the

468
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: following going, Yeah, So the following going, which you have

469
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: probably heard about before on our show or in any

470
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 1: international news is it translates the title translates to dharma

471
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 1: wheel practice or law wheel practice. It's a Chinese spiritual

472
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: movement that combines chigong and meditation with this moral philosophy.

473
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a religion. It's safe to

474
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 1: say most people when they hear about it, they would

475
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: interpret it as a religion because the ultimate goal is

476
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: the idea of enlightenment on a spiritual level. It was

477
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: started in so it's very it's very young. Initially the

478
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: Chinese officials and the Communist Party thought that, you know,

479
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: they supported it, right, but because of its size, because

480
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: of its independence from the state and it's emphasis on

481
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: spiritual teaching, it was seen as something like it's a

482
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: good way, a possible security risk, or a secessionist movement maybe,

483
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 1: and it was officially in at several times throughout history.

484
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: Now it's been labeled as a cult, an evil cult,

485
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: a dangerous group, like all these things by by the

486
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: Chinese government. Well, have you guys ever seen the chin

487
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: Yunu posters and billboards ads that are like everywhere this

488
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: aerial acrobat China organization. Yeah, well it's like a traveling

489
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 1: show or whatever. Right, Uh, they practice Fallonong. I mean,

490
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: it's become a joke like that show is so prevalent

491
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: any city you're in, you're gonna see them on bill

492
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: bulletin boards and you know, busses and everything. It's like

493
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: a very popular show. But yes, they are practitioners of Fallonong.

494
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: Interesting and in two thousand and six, official allegations emerged

495
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: that a large number of Follongong practitioners have been killed

496
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: to supply the oregan transplant industry in China. Uh and

497
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: these came from those uh, those earlier writers we had mentioned,

498
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: David Kilgore, former Canadian Secretary of State, and David Mantas,

499
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: who's a human rights lawyer. The problem, of course, spoiler alert.

500
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: China denies all of this, and recently this tribunal after

501
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: after their uh their statement in December in twenty nineteen,

502
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: the tribunal concluded that the killing of detainees in China

503
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: for organ transplants hasn't stopped, it is continuing, and though

504
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: Following Gong detainees might not be the only source of

505
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: these illegal organ harvesting operations, they are one of the

506
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: primary sources. And in a unanimous determination just this year,

507
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: they said that the evidence clearly indicated this forced organ

508
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: harvesting again, killing people, not because of what they did

509
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: to land in jail, but killing people because there's a

510
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: new order in for a hot off the cadaver kidney right,

511
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: And they said this had taken place for at least

512
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: two decades. They said there were certain the Following Gong

513
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: group was a source, probably the principal source of these

514
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: organs of According to a guy named Sir Jeffrey Nice,

515
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: who chaired the tribunal, he's a QC. The conclusion shows

516
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: that very many people have died in describably hideous deaths

517
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: for new reason, that more may suffer in similar ways,

518
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: and that all of us live on a planet where

519
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: extreme wickedness may be found in the power of those

520
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: for the time being running a country with one of

521
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: the oldest civilizations known to modern man. Continues to say

522
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: there is no evidence of the practice having been stopped,

523
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: and the tribunal is satisfied that it is continuing. No, really,

524
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: they're satisfied that it's continuing. No, it's British, British language,

525
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: we understand. But yeah, so they said, they said, this

526
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: is not a theory, right, this is not a rumor.

527
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: There's not a couple of isolated cases from the nineteen nineties.

528
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: This is happening. And it's like, we we can't we

529
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: can say it's indicative of genocide, even if we can't

530
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: conclusively say it's genocide, because that's sort of a United

531
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: Nations determine nation a lot of times. But they said,

532
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: you're killing people. Yeah, and there there are more details

533
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: to this situation, and it gets darker, and we're going

534
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: to cover that right after another word from our sponsor.

535
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: What's the creepy line from Willy Wonka, the gene Wilder

536
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: version where it gets really dark? Oh, no, that's what's

537
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: a where this is going. Yes, this is this is

538
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: that part. This is where we go deeper into the

539
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: tunnel here. Because although China again dismisses these claims as

540
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: politically motivated and untrue, even calling them propaganda, essentially, we

541
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: know that there there are numerous examples of what appears

542
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: to be first hand testimony from both following Gong members

543
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: and Weaker in eights in the in the concentration camps

544
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: in western China were being a religious group and also

545
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: like a race, right. Uh. Yeah, They're a ethnic minority

546
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: in China, and the majority, the ethnic majority in China

547
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: would be the Han. That we are are Muslim and

548
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: practicing Muslims. They've been in these so called education or

549
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: re education camps. The people are pro we grow activists

550
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: will say that the Han are forcibly assimilating them or

551
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: trying to wipe out their culture by putting them in

552
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: these camps and making them reject their religious their long

553
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: held religious practices. And if you want to learn more

554
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: about that, we have an entire episode on modern day

555
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: concentration camps. I believe that's called something similar to that.

556
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: You can learn about that right now. And I actually

557
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: I stumbled upon an article on news dot com dot

558
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: au and Australian site that went into some of the

559
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: conditions and some of these camps, and I mentioned to

560
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: Ben and Matt that I had watched a couple of

561
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: these videos, and Ben was surprised is that some of

562
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: the folks that gave their accounts were actually left alive,

563
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: because that is pretty uncommon, right relatively, so yeah, and

564
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm not saying that this is completely

565
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: without you know, questionability, but there are some perspectives of

566
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: some folks that describe having blood forcibly drawn from their

567
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: arms and ear lobes, and the idea is that it

568
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: was to check the viability of their organs they were beaten.

569
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: But then that one gentleman who seems like he was

570
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: kind of railroaded because he described them kind of like

571
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 1: claiming to have found Falling Gong materials on his computer. Um,

572
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: but he did not purport to have been a member.

573
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: And so it almost feels like this is like a

574
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: thing they can use on people, you know, to like say, oh,

575
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: your enemy of the state because we found these materials

576
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: or whatever. It would always be suspicious if someone is

577
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: caught because of something quote unquote found on their computer.

578
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: Very so easy, so easy to plan and um stories

579
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: like that where then a actually after you know, beatings

580
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: where one gentleman overheard somebody guard saying be careful not

581
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 1: to damage his organs, you know, but like really really

582
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: brutal beatings, UM, and doctors not speaking to the individuals,

583
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: they would draw blood from them without saying, you know,

584
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 1: with repeated questions as to what they're doing, why they're

585
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: doing it, they wouldn't answer. Um. And yeah, it's like

586
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 1: basically these forced labor camps where people are pulled out

587
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: of line and kind of like taken to these these

588
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: medical facilities. And one person in particular that you know,

589
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: had a very similar or you know, the same experience

590
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: was a woman named Jennifer Zing who was a felon

591
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: gooing activist. She was imprisoned for only about a year

592
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: in a labor camp for women only. Uh and and

593
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 1: she has this quote that she should that she gave

594
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: to the Guardian. I'm just gonna read this. It says,

595
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: on the day we were transferred to the labor camp,

596
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: we were taken to a medical facility where we underwent

597
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: physical checkups. We were interrogated about what diseases we had,

598
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: and I told them I had hepatitis. The second time,

599
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: after about a month in the camp, everyone was handcuffed

600
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: and put into a van and taken to a huge

601
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: hospital that was a far more thorough physical checkup. We

602
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: were given X rays. On the third occasion in the camp,

603
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: they were drawing blood from us. We were all told

604
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: to line up in the corridor and the tests were given.

605
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: So it really does paint a picture of UM when

606
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: you were inside this labor camp as a you know,

607
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: a prisoner. Essentially, your health is very important to the

608
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: people who are keeping you there, and that is you know,

609
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: over all the episodes that we've done on you know,

610
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: we just did one on UH on prison healthcare. And

611
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: while this isn't the same thing, we're in a different country,

612
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: we're into different circumstances, but generally check that that number

613
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 1: of checkups and monitoring of health in a prison system,

614
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: I would say, is not UM standards, not at all,

615
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: and I mean not unless something really dire happens and

616
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: then you're admitted, and you know that's usually they don't

617
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: just say, hey, how are you doing? Can we check

618
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: up on you and make sure that you're feeling okay.

619
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: So here's the tricky part. Two. According to this tribunal's estimates,

620
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: as many as ninety thousand transplant operations are being conducted

621
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: a year out of this country, and that is a

622
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: much much higher figure than that given by official government

623
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: sources in China. But all of this evidence technically, all

624
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: of these eyewitness accounts, all of the all of the

625
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 1: testimony of former surgeons or soldiers, it's still legally is circumstantial.

626
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: And no one has there's a good article about this

627
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: a new scientists. No one has been able to directly

628
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: observe or prove that these transplant organs are still being

629
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: sourced from prisoners. Even if we have soldiers claiming that

630
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: they've seen live organ harvesting, there's no tape of this,

631
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, there's knowing con revertible video proof.

632
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: And now the Chinese Embassy has commented on these claims

633
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: in a fairly categorical manner. As quoted in the Guardian,

634
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: the embassy said the Chinese government will always follow the

635
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: World Health Organization's guiding principles on human organ transplant and

636
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: its strengthened its management on organ transplant in recent years.

637
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: On March two thousand seven, the Chinese State Council enacted

638
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: the Regulation on Human Organ Transplant, providing that human organ

639
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: donation must be done voluntarily and gratis free of charge.

640
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: We hope that the British people will not be misled

641
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: by rumors because there's this, uh, there's this movement now

642
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: in the United Kingdom to ban people from traveling to

643
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: China for the purposes of medical tourism. That's how that's

644
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: how big the concern has become. Well, then, let's so

645
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: we already know that this is a big deal, right,

646
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: And we don't really have, as you said, been, any

647
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: kind of incontrovertible video evidence of this just occurring at

648
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: a labor camp over and over even one time. If

649
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: we did, then we could come right out and say that.

650
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: But we do have testimony of at least one person

651
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 1: that we found, uh who is said to have taken

652
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: part in taking organs out of a person who was

653
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: still alive, who had just been shot by authorities of

654
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: some sort. And he was a he was a medical professional. Right,

655
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: that's correct. So let's let's go to July. Go let's

656
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: go to Ireland where the Senate was meeting. They were

657
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: meeting with the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade

658
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: in Defense, and they were hearing evidence from experts about

659
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: specifically the organ harvesting or the alleged organ harvesting that

660
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: was going on in China. And there's a man named

661
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: Dr enver Toti. I believe that's correct. Um, he was

662
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 1: giving testimony about how he was quote led to perform

663
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: organ harvesting on a civilian in China, and this was

664
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: early on in his medical career. It was he said

665
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: that there were two chief surgeons who told him to

666
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 1: assemble a team. This is he's he's just being told

667
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: this assemble a team for the largest possible surgery the

668
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: following morning. So you know, again it's early in his career. Uh,

669
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: he's being told this by people who work for the government,

670
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: essentially in the medical system. Um, he ends up getting,

671
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: you know, gathering a team. They're brought outside of a

672
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: hospital and they're told to wait for the gun shots.

673
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: This is what he's giving testimony. You can watch a

674
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: video of him giving this testimony. Um, it's uh, it's

675
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: pretty crazy to to listen to it because this is

676
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 1: what he says. Then, after gunshots were her we rushed in.

677
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: An armed officer directed us to the far right corner

678
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: where I can see a civilian clothed man lying on

679
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: the ground with a single bullet wound to his right chest.

680
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: My chief surgeons ordered and guided me to extract the

681
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: liver and the two kidneys. The man was alive. He

682
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 1: tried to his this to my scalpel cut, but was

683
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: too weak to avoid my action. There was bleeding. He

684
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: was still alive and this yeah, and you know in

685
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: this article where you can find this. And during this

686
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: uh this uh this committee hearing, as as Dr Tody

687
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: is giving this, he's saying, every time I tell this story,

688
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 1: it feels like a confession. And then he goes on

689
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: to talk about how he felt like he was just

690
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: in that moment and in his career, he felt like

691
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: he was carrying out his duty for his country and

692
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: he was going to quote eliminate the enemy of the state. Right.

693
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 1: His story is fascinating. So Dr Emvert Tody is fifty

694
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: seven now he's an uber driver working in the UK,

695
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: but it was it was formerly a surgeon and he

696
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: was working in Romchi in northwest China when his boss

697
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 1: has asked him, quote, do you want to do something wild?

698
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,479
Speaker 1: He was a young doctor at the time. He said yes,

699
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: and they drove him to the Western Mountain execute action grounds.

700
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: He saw around fifteen bodies on the mountain side, all

701
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 1: of which have been shot in the head. So this

702
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: may be a different I think, because the one we

703
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: just described, the guy was shot in the once in

704
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: the right side of his chest, right avoiding the heart.

705
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 1: Noticed that, uh. And when he when he was there,

706
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: he was ordered to cut deep and work fast on

707
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,399
Speaker 1: a victim that he claimed had not been and esther

708
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: sized and who had been shot in the chest. So

709
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: it's the same it's the same guy. Uh. And this

710
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,720
Speaker 1: guy like he still took organs out of the people

711
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: who have been shot in the head. But the the

712
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: guy who was shot in the chest, he knew, he

713
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: knew it was still alive because he was struggling and

714
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 1: there was still blood coming out of the cut, which

715
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 1: meant the heart was still pumping. And he was ordered

716
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: to remove the liver, both kidneys, so the body back

717
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: up and quote remember that today nothing happened. So he

718
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: has he still has PTSD from this and dedicates his

719
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: life to campaigning for awareness of the practice. That's that's

720
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 1: his that's his statement, and that's where we are today

721
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 1: with this. Make no mistake, China is home to a

722
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: massive organ trade. That that's not in question. The question

723
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: here is whether or not this trade is legal. What

724
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: is the provenance of these organs? Was the destination? What

725
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: is the economic uh fuel for this engine? Regardless of

726
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: which side you ask, you're going to find a conspiracy theory.

727
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: On one side, you'll find the Chinese government and officials

728
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: alleging and conspiracy on the part of other nations attempting

729
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: to discredit it, to attack it and vilify it on

730
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: the international stage. And they'll point out this is true.

731
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 1: They'll point out that these are in g o s

732
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: often right on the other side well, and sometimes have

733
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: meddled before absolutely as outside organizations. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's

734
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 1: unfortunately a tale as old as modern time. On the

735
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: other side, international investigations and several other countries, primarily countries

736
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: in the West, allege the government of China itself is

737
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: involved in a conspiracy to supply cheap organs by executing

738
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: marginalized members of society and maybe even sometimes arresting them

739
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: when oregan demand gets high enough and they need more bodies,

740
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: bodies in the cells or on the shooting grounds. To

741
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: be fair, though, no government is actually monolithic and no

742
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: government is uniform, so it's entirely possible that corrupt factions

743
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: in the government are supporting this illegal practice while other

744
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: factions fight against it, you know what I mean. Someone

745
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: there might be a caball of people in northwestern China

746
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: who are making money on the side in an in

747
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: an underground operation, like the people in charge of a prison,

748
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 1: right are making money by just letting the bodies disappear

749
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 1: for a second after execution on their way to wherever

750
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 1: their final resting place will be. And then the doctors

751
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: might be making money on the side, and and the

752
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: regional officials or the local government in the area might

753
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: be making money by turning a blind eye. Uh. This

754
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: this is how a lot of these things work. This

755
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,240
Speaker 1: is this would be categorized as true crime. We cannot

756
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: escape the fact that there is a profound amount of

757
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: money involved on on either side, the legal trade and

758
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: the illegal trade. And so now we have to ask

759
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: which side do you believe and why Propaganda is a

760
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: huge business too. It's you would you might be surprised,

761
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: but it's it's similar to the Oregon trade in that

762
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: there's a there are lives on the line, just not

763
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: as directly, and it's just called public relations now. It's

764
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: just called public relations now. So it is completely possible

765
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: for some stories to be circulated, especially when there's a

766
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: language barrier or state control of media, and for those

767
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: stories to appear realistic but then later turn out to

768
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: be propaganda, like that Nurse Narayah story infamous, which is

769
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: pretty much made up about the children being pulled out

770
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 1: at incubators, or like the stories that chose on Elbow

771
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: will run sometimes that are anti d p r K.

772
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: And let me very clear, I am not defending that country.

773
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that propaganda exist. So do you think

774
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: this is propaganda? Do you think this is a system

775
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: of murder to sell organs or is this something in between?

776
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 1: Is it a few bad actors or is it something

777
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: that is just growing now and has been growing, something

778
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: that will continue across the planet as resources continue to

779
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: get scarce and humans continue to be less and less valued.

780
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: I will tell you one thing I did. I can't

781
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: say that I fully believe that this is happening, um,

782
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: just because, like you said, been early early on in

783
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: this the numbers are so opaque, We know so very little.

784
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: If that does lead my conspiratorial brain or side of

785
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: me to say, well, they're probably hiding something, but I

786
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: have a hard time fully believing it. But what I

787
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: what I can say is that it terrifies me that

788
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: a lot of human beings, these days, are walking around

789
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: giving all of their health information to some third party

790
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: app or something on their phone, or we're all you know,

791
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: we're all tracking our biometrics, or many of us are,

792
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: even if we don't even realize it. In the same

793
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 1: way that these prisoners are being checked up on all

794
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 1: the time to make sure their their blood is good,

795
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 1: to make sure their organs are functioning correctly. In a

796
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: similar way, we're kind of doing the same thing, but

797
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 1: we're collecting it for some corporation out there that's going

798
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: to be to have all of our information at some

799
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 1: point when when the people with the money need our organs.

800
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, guys, Jeez, Matt, that's why,

801
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: that's why you have the party gather you why you

802
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: may just drink as much as possible to make sure

803
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: that livers not ready to burn the village to save

804
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: the village, you know what I mean? Wow, that I'm sorry.

805
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: I did not mean for that to be that dark. Okay,

806
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: that is that is a horrific quote that is attributed

807
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: to the US military's legal actions during the Vietnam War.

808
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: There you go, h and we want to hear. We

809
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: want to hear your opinion upon this because it touches

810
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: on many many things. You can tell us about your

811
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: strange experiences with surgery in your neck of the Global Woods,

812
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: tell us about your experience with Oregon transplants. And also,

813
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: you know, maybe there's a little bit too much of

814
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: a door to open here, but what what do you

815
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: think about the current state of US healthcare, which we

816
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 1: briefly mentioned here? Do you do feel the free market

817
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 1: is best? Do you do you think that? Uh? Do

818
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: you think that people should die of curable conditions and

819
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 1: diseases due to you know, financial concerns? I hope not. Well,

820
00:48:58,440 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 1: I mean I want to I want to hear what

821
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: people think. That's good. Yeah, you're right, you can. You

822
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: can tell us about all this and more. Most importantly,

823
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: you are our favorite part of this show, specifically you're listening,

824
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: so we would always love to hear topics that you

825
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,359
Speaker 1: think would fascinate your fellow listeners. And we have a

826
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 1: ton of ways that you can contact us. One of

827
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: the best ones is to head over to Facebook and

828
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 1: join our special group, our private group called Here's where

829
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: it gets crazy. You have to say who are the

830
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: hosts are of the show. But if you get just

831
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: one I think even Okay, well, if you get one right,

832
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: that's perfect. If you mentioned Mission Control, Mr poll d

833
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 1: over there, that's good. I just saw one where somebody

834
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: called Ben ben Brolin, which I really like. Thanks guys. Well,

835
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: and you know there's Sunny D and Polly D right,

836
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: and I'm Polly Walnuts that's right, or mentioned Badgers. We've

837
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: we had a couple of really just make us laugh,

838
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 1: you know, we're in it's it's a crazy year and

839
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: things are just gonna get stranger before they level out.

840
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: And you can also find us on Twitter where we're

841
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: conspiracy stuff. On Facebook regular were conspiracy stuff, and on

842
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 1: Instagram were conspiracy stuff show. And you guys have some handles, Yeah,

843
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: you can. You can see very until I get disappeared

844
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: at some point. You can find various global misadventures at

845
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: Ben Boling My My misadventures mainly stay relegated to the

846
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 1: continental United States, but you can find those at how

847
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: Now Noel Brown and mine. I have one that I

848
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: just haven't put anything on yet. It's just sitting there

849
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: and I think I'm only I think I'm only friends.

850
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 1: What do you call it when Instagram followers, I'm only

851
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: following my wife right now, which I probably shouldn't if

852
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 1: it's gonna be official account. I don't know how these

853
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: things work anyway. Uh, let's move on. You're adorable. I

854
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: do want to give one shout out though, to some

855
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 1: folks on our Facebook page. Here's where he gets crazy,

856
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: who are telling us that are new email address was

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00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,800
Speaker 1: getting kicked back to them. We used to be conspiracy

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00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,879
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com, but we changed that.

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00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: We changed that to a different address, which will will

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00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: give at the end of the show, and we're we're

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00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: checking on it to make sure it works. So if

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00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: you if you feel like you've emailed us and it's

863
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: not getting to us, then send us. Contact us one

864
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: of those other ways. Uh, there's another way we mentioned

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00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: at the top of the show. You can you can

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00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: call us. We're one eight three three st d w

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00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: y t K. Give us a call, leave us a

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00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 1: message again, all the other rules apply. Make us laugh

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00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 1: is the best. But tell us what you want us

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00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: to talk about. Tell us what you're doing dreams. Yeah,

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00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: how do you listen to the show with just some

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00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: silly thing that we can talk about? Your blood type,

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00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 1: your social Security number, a list of your fears. Also

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00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: if you if you don't like any of that, if

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00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: that's not quite bad in your badgers. We do have

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00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,919
Speaker 1: an email address. Uh, go ahead and drop us a line.

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00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,320
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com. Yeah.

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00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to Know is a production

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00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts

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00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

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00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.