1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about materials today. But this is 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: a really fun materials episode that will shatter like glass 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: in our hands, or will it? I guess it's a 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: big question mark. Yeah, we're gonna be talking a lot 8 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: about ice, but a lot of exciting stuff about ice. 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: You're gonna learn some new things about ice, I think, 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: and you're also going to think, uh a bit more 11 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: deeply about what can be done and also what perhaps 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: cannot or should not be done with ice. So, if 13 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: you've read any of George rr. Martin's A Song of 14 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: Ice and Fire, if you've read that soga, or if 15 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: you've viewed the TV adaptation Game of Thrones, you're well 16 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: acquainted with the wall. But to reacquain everybody, this is 17 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: a fantasy world that based on sort of a medieval 18 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: European model, and in the Far North you have this 19 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: massive three hundred mile long, seven hundred foot tall wall 20 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: of ice that we're told has stood there for eight 21 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: thousand years as a barrier against the people's and the 22 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: supernatural horrors of the far North. Yeah, it's basically Hadrian's Wall, 23 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: except much bigger and made of magic. Yes, yeah, we're 24 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: told it was built by Brandon the Builder, with the 25 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: aid of giants and the magical children of the forest. 26 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: So we're definitely to understand that there is actual magic 27 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: in its construction. But also there's this idea that Brandon 28 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: was a master engineer, that he's in the vein of 29 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: these various engineering cultural heroes that you see in various cultures. 30 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: But of course, the real standout feature that makes this 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: wall unique is that it is built out of ice, 32 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: not out of stone, but out of frozen water. Yes, 33 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: it is a wall of ice. So um, you know, 34 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: ignoring the magic for a second here, it sounds like 35 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: a great plan, right, I mean, human have been known 36 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: to make shelters out of ice, glaciers and snow have 37 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: served as natural barriers to travel, So why wouldn't it 38 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: be ideal to construct this far northern barrier, which is 39 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: going to be dealing with, you know, with far northern climate. 40 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: Why not build it out of ice? Good question, is 41 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: a block of ice not just as good as a 42 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: stone brick? Yeah, So I was looking around about this, 43 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: and uh, fortunately there is already a great book out 44 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: there that dives into this very question. It's titled Fire, 45 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: Ice and Physics, the Science of Game of Thrones by 46 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: Rebecca C. Thompson, PhD, a physicist and author of the 47 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: popular Spectra series of comic books about physics. And I 48 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: should also note that Sean Carroll wrote the intro. Cool 49 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: so she, Uh, first of all, this is just a 50 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: really fun book if you if if you're interested in 51 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: Game of Thrones and science, I encourage you to pick 52 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: it up. But I love books like this. Uh you know, 53 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: I have one about done, I've been eyeing one about 54 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: Star wars Um. But she goes through very aious aspects 55 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: of the books and the world of wester Roast and 56 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: breaks them about scientifically, and does so in a very engaging, 57 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: humorous but also um, you know, wester Roast loving style. 58 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: So so there's there's one section in there where she 59 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: tackles the wall and she points out that ultimately this 60 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: question would an ice wall work. It's a lot more 61 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: complex than you might think. So for starters, there's not 62 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: just one type of ice crystal. There are seventeen types 63 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: of crystalline ice that we know of. Plus there are 64 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: three different types of amorphous ice, and three theoretically, she says, 65 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: there might be as many as three hundred different phases 66 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: of ice. Uh, you know, depending on some of the 67 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: research out there. Right. The different phases of ice having 68 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: different physical properties is something that's been explored in science 69 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: fiction for a while. Actually, it's in the novel Cat's 70 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut, which invents a fictional phase of ice. 71 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: There is no actual phase of ice that does this, 72 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: but there's a fictional phase of ice called Ice nine, 73 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: which acts as a seed, a stole, and it is 74 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: a it's a doomsday weapon because if you drop a 75 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: piece of this ice into regular water, it will rearrange 76 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: the structure of the regular water so that it freezes 77 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: at room temperature, basically killing Earth. Ah, you know, I've 78 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: I've never read Cat's Cradle, but I I remember now 79 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: that you mentioned. I remember like reading that on a 80 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: summary or the back of the paperback or something. Yeah. 81 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: But but to clarify again, that's a fictional phase of ice. 82 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: There is no actual phase of ice that does that 83 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: that we know about. Yeah, the phase of ice were 84 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: most familiar with is ice one H also known as 85 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: ice phase one, and this is the the hexagonal crystal 86 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: form of ordinary ice. And this is pretty much all 87 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: the ice you ever come into contact with. And therefore 88 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: we can assume that this is the same ice that 89 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: we encounter in the world of West Ros. I think 90 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: that's a safe assumption. Yeah, of course you might say, well, 91 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: what if it's not. What if somehow this is an 92 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: alternate universe or a different planet where another form of 93 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: ice is the predominant phase. I'm not sure if that's 94 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: even a raise noble question to raise though. Anyway, Thompson 95 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: does a great overview of ice and the physical properties 96 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: of ice, and I do want to throw in that 97 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 1: she has an excellent bit where she weighs in on 98 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: whiskey stones. Oh okay, so Robert explained the concept of 99 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: a whiskey stone. Well, I do not. I do not 100 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: own these, but I assume you do not either. But 101 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: I've heard of them. I guess I don't. I don't 102 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: know if I know anyone. I think I might know 103 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: one person who has them. But the idea is that 104 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: you you're such an afficionado of bourbon or whiskey and 105 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: you that you don't want anything to dilute it. You 106 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: want it cold, but you don't want to put some 107 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: ice in there which will kill the drink but also melt. 108 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: So apparently these have been marketed before. The whiskey stones 109 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: are like our rocks that somebody sells you, rocks that 110 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: you keep in your freezer, and then when you want 111 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: to have a cold glass of brown alcohol, you put 112 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: the cold rock in there, and the rock, of course 113 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: will not melt and dilute your beverage. Now, if you 114 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: actually enjoy whiskey stones, no judgment of all, more power 115 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: to you. But I would like to point out just 116 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: real quickly that this is you can get into how 117 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: it might be a little bit misguided from a physics standpoint, 118 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: but it's also a little bit misguided, I think from 119 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: a culinary standpoint, because I mean, I think most people 120 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: believe that like whiskeys tend to kind of improve with 121 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 1: the addition of a small amount of water, So like 122 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: melting ice cools, but also adds water to the drink. 123 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: And this is an important part of many spirit and 124 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: cocktail preparations. And this might be why if you've ever 125 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: tried to mix a cocktail that is supposed to be 126 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: shaken with ice, but then you make it without shaking 127 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: it with ice, it kind of tastes wrong. And that's 128 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: because one of the ingredients in this cocktail is actually water, 129 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: and you have left that important ingredient out by not 130 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,239 Speaker 1: shaking it with ice that dilutes into the drink. Yeah. 131 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: I've definitely experienced this making cocktails before, where I'll end 132 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: up for whatever reason, you know, due to whatever kind 133 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: of ice I have on hand, I'll end up with 134 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: a drink that doesn't taste perfect. But once the ice 135 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: has melted a little bit, it's a different experience. And 136 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: even with like a straight whiskey on on the rocks, 137 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: I mean that that's always been my experience of of that, 138 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: it's like the drink will change as the making drinking 139 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: experience will change as the ice melts, which I think 140 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: is part of the experience. But then again, i'm i'm I'm, 141 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: I'm ultimately a novice when it comes to the appreciation 142 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: of fine whiskeys. But Thompson also makes a physics point 143 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: about the whiskey stones right right, she writes the following quote. 144 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: The heat from the soda is used to melt the ice, 145 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: so the surrounding soda cools off. This is also why 146 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: whiskey stones are a total sham. Seriously, I can't stress 147 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: this enough. Don't buy whiskey stones. If you want to 148 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: keep your drink cold without watering it down, get yourself 149 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: some water filled plastic ice cubes. They're eighty percent less stylish, 150 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: but a hundred percent more useful. Now she continues from 151 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: here and get some more detail. Basically, her point is 152 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: that the whiskey stone will only take away enough energy 153 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: to raise its temperature. Of the whiskey temperature, an ice 154 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: cube will take the same energy, plus the energy needed 155 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: to break the molecular bonds which melts the ice. Right. 156 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: That phase transition takes energy the same way that boiling 157 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: water takes energy. Like, why does your pot of water 158 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: boiling on the stove not just keep increasing in temperature 159 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: and until it's the same temperature as like the heating 160 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: element below it. Uh, it's because it takes enormous energy 161 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: to turn that water into steam, and that energy gets 162 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: boiled off. Yeah. So anyway, that that doesn't directly relate 163 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: to the building of a giant wall made out of ice, 164 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: but it was just too interesting In her writing on 165 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: it was just too humorous to pass over. Well, let's 166 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: get back to why exactly it is that ice is 167 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: not a good building material, all right, Well, she points 168 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: out that quote ice on a large scale is basically 169 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: catch up. So yeah, so, yeah, I sent a large 170 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 1: scale is a non Newtonian fluid. In an ice wall 171 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: or a glacier, the pressure of the structure's own weight 172 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: causes it to creep. And this would occur even in 173 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: if low temperatures prevented the ice from ever really melting. 174 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: Dislocation small cracks that cause ice crystals to move over 175 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: each other would cause the creep even in a you know, 176 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: a pretty stable chili environment. So this would be in 177 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:21,719 Speaker 1: play concerning the wall, along with temperature changes. Yeah, that's right. 178 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: And creep actually is the technical term there. It comes 179 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: up in a paper by a chemist that we're gonna 180 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: look at later in the episode. Yeah, she says that 181 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: ultimately the wall. She says, the wall would have probably 182 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: been okay for like a year, but over the course 183 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: of thousands of years, it would end up being just 184 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: more of an ice dome or a plateau, depending on 185 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: the temperature, So it would be far less of an 186 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: obstacle to um certainly intelligent beings looking to invade the South. 187 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: Good thing. It's magic then, But but there's more. There's 188 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: another huge issue and one that's key to the rest 189 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: of the episode here. Ice tends to have a lot 190 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: of defects in it due to the way the ice 191 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: crystals are organized, and this leads to cracks, And of 192 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: course cracks mean that the ice can ultimately fail, right, 193 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: it can ultimately lose its structural integrity. And it's not 194 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: just that the ice fails. All materials can fail, and 195 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: we have to understand how they fail and what conditions 196 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: cause them to fail. But with ice, quote, there's no 197 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: specific set of conditions that cause ice to fail. Rather, 198 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 1: it fails under a wide range of conditions. Yes, another 199 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: way of putting this is that ice is structurally unpredictable. Uh. 200 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 1: You take two blocks of ice that are the same size, 201 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: made of the same water, and one might fail trying 202 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: to hold up five pounds while another one can hold 203 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: up twenty pounds, And that that kind of difference, that 204 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: variability is not a good characteristic of a building material. 205 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: You could almost argue, I think that predictability is more 206 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: important than strength when you're selecting a building material. Yes. Now, 207 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 1: Thompson does point out that there are ways to strengthen 208 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,119 Speaker 1: the ice. They're a way as to make it more dependable, 209 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: more durable. And the interesting thing is the weird things 210 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: that you do to ice, uh. To do this we 211 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 1: find fantastic examples of of this. Not in a fantasy 212 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: world like a game of Thrones. Uh. Instead we find 213 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: these examples in the the equally or perhaps even more 214 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: bizarre world of our own real history. Right. This brings 215 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: us to the subject to the rest of today's episode, 216 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: which is going to be this fantastic frozen material known 217 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: as pike crete or ice that's about as strong as concrete. Yes, 218 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: and and again let me just say that if you're 219 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: familiar with with this material and it's it's usage and 220 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: uh in the project we're going to talk about, then 221 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 1: you know you're in for an exciting time. But if 222 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: you haven't, just let me assure you that everything is 223 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: about to get far stranger than a giant wall of 224 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: ice made to keep undead invaders out. Right, We're more 225 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 1: in the realm of a giant tub of ice used 226 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: to bomb knots ease. But first we're gonna have to 227 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: take a quick break, but we'll be right back with 228 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: more ice. Thank thank thank Alright, we're back. So we're 229 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: gonna be dealing with the Second World War here, a 230 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: truly global war that worked kind of like a black 231 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: hole just pulling in I mean, first and foremost human lives, 232 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: but also human ingenuity, and of course funds and resources 233 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: as well. So there was more than enough room in 234 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: all of this for the occasional hairbrained scheme to pick 235 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: up a lot of steam. And this is one of them. 236 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: I want to say, I'm not sure exactly how hairbrained 237 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: it is, Like in some ways it's hair brained, and 238 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: in other ways it's quite ingenious. It's the strange mixture 239 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: of of genuine insight and good ideas with proposals so 240 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: outlandish that they're laughable in their face. Yes, yeah, I 241 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: should I should rephrase. I guess that there are better 242 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: examples of purely hairbrained schemes that were brought up during 243 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: War two. This one, I guess it's just more of 244 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: an idea that this is. This is a real outside 245 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: the box idea, and one that at least for a while, 246 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: seemed like it might be the best solution to the 247 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: problem given the resources at hand and the weight of 248 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: the circumstances. Right, So what was the problem that we're 249 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: going to start with here, Well, the basic problem was 250 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: the Allied forces needed better aerial coverage of the North Atlantic. Yeah. 251 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: So to expand on this, I want to refer to 252 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: a paper that we're going to be consulting extensively for 253 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: the rest of this episode. It's called a Description of 254 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 1: the Iceberg Aircraft Carrier and the Bearing of the Mechanical 255 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: properties of frozen wood Pulp upon some problems of glacier flow. 256 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: This is a report that was presented to a scientific 257 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: organization called the International Glaciological Society in nineteen forty six, 258 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: and it was written by a guy named Max Peruts. 259 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: Now Max Peruts lived from nineteen fourteen until two thousand two. 260 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: He was an Austrian born chemist and molecular biologist, and 261 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: generally just an extremely accomplished scientist. He won the nineteen 262 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: sixty two Nobel Prize for Chemistry, and this was for 263 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: his work on the structure of hemoglobin. But Peruts was 264 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: really just one of the great pioneers of molecular biology. 265 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: I was listening to an interview between Brian Cox and 266 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: the molecular biologist Vinki Rama Krishnan, who was talking about 267 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: Perutz's work explaining the structure of proteins, and Rama Krishnan 268 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: says that in many ways, modern biology would be unthinkable 269 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: without Peruts's contributions. He he did some of the most 270 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: important pioneering work for the kinds of molecular biology that 271 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: are you know, ubiquitous throughout the biology research and biotech 272 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: world today. But before all this, Peruts was involved in 273 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: the British war effort during World War two, and specifically 274 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: he was working with the ice based technology that we 275 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: are discussing today, and in this paper he gives a 276 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: firsthand account of the project and some scientific discoveries that 277 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: came out of it. So to to establish the problem, 278 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: Peruts writes that in the autumn of nineteen forty two, 279 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: Allied leadership recognized that their war effort was really suffering 280 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: from a lack of air power range, especially in response 281 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: to German U boat attacks in the Atlantic, and this 282 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: was affecting the transport of cargo across the ocean between 283 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: Great Britain and their allies in North America. So there's 284 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: a U boat threat throughout the ocean. You never know 285 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: if your your cargo resupply ships are going to be attacked, 286 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: and you could defend them if you had better air coverage. 287 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: But how are you going to get planes all the 288 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: way out there in the middle of the Atlantic where 289 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: the U boats can attack. That's right, you come down 290 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: to the limits of aviation technology at that time. Yeah, 291 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: and Peruts writes, quote, it had been a common experience 292 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: that the carrier based aircraft of the Allies were inferior 293 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: in armament and speed to the land based planes of 294 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: the enemy. And so what are talking about was that 295 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: there were aircraft carriers that the Allies had during World 296 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: War Two. But these aircraft carriers at the time were 297 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: relatively small, with short runways and limited parking and storage space. 298 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: So the kinds of planes that could take off from 299 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: them tended to have light armor and wings that would 300 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: like collapse and fold up to make them easier to store. 301 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: The kinds of planes that were better armored, more powerful, 302 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: and could do more damage. For example, I was reading 303 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: an article by Paul Collins from two thousand two in 304 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: the magazine Cabinet about this project, and Collins mentioned spitfires 305 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: and bomber planes as examples of these more powerful planes. Uh, 306 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: they couldn't fit on or take off from aircraft carriers. 307 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: They had to be launched from the ground. And this 308 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: didn't only affect cargo transport and other operations in the Atlantic, 309 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: it also had implications for future ground invasions of access 310 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: occupied areas in say, continental Europe and an Asia. So 311 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: you know, given the existing limitations on aircraft carriers, if 312 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: you were to try to land on a distant shore, 313 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: your airpower inland would be limited until you could capture 314 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: or establish air fields there from which you could launch 315 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: these more powerful land based planes like spitfires and bombers 316 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: and so Peruts writes quote. It was only natural, therefore, 317 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: that a proposal for the apparently cheap construction of gigantic 318 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: aircraft carriers capable of operating land based aircraft thousands of 319 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: miles from their base was seriously considered. So so that's 320 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: the dilemma there, And they're trying to get more powerful, 321 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: bigger planes farther out into the ocean, farther from home, 322 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: right and that that's pretty tall order right there. But 323 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: then on top of that, now not only does it 324 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: have to be enormous and also inexpensive. It also would 325 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: really help if it were essentially torpedo proof, if the 326 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: all these prowling U boats would be in cape bowl 327 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: of sinking it, right. Yeah, you don't want to load 328 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: a ship up with all of your most important, most 329 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 1: expensive aircraft and then launch it out into the ocean 330 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: to be sunk by a U boat. Yeah. So you know, 331 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: in defense of of everything that comes after this, that 332 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: is a that's a tall order that really invites outside 333 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: the box thinking, right, and fortunately we had an outside 334 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: the box thinker come onto the scene. Yes, enter English 335 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: journalist turned inventor Jeffrey Pike, who lived eight through nine. Yeah, 336 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: and so Paul Collins, writing for that Cabinet magazine article 337 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: I mentioned from two thousand two, he quotes The Times 338 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: of London calling Pike quote one of the most original, 339 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: if unrecognized figures of the present century. And I just 340 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,959 Speaker 1: want to read collins brief summary of Pike's early life quote. 341 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: His career began in nineteen fourteen, when, as a teenager 342 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: at Cambridge University, he landed a foreign correspondent job by 343 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: using a false passport to sneak into wartime Germany. After 344 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: getting tossed into a concentration camp, he fled the country 345 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: in a daring daytime escape. In the nineteen twenties, he 346 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: virtually created progressive elementary education in Great Britain, all for 347 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: the sake of his own son's education. Pike financed his 348 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: own school by brilliantly writing futures markets and controlling a 349 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: quarter of the world's supply of tin, a ploy which 350 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: brought him to financial ruin in nineteen nine. He lived 351 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 1: on as an eccentric hermit, publishing prescient warnings of Nazism 352 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: and proposing one of the first media watchdogs. After the war, 353 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: his freelance genius helped propel the creation of the National 354 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: Health Service. That's quite a resume. So yeah, foreign journalists 355 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: escaped enemy capture. Uh weird investment portfolio huge into ten 356 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: loses it all eccentric hermit but then pioneers uh progressive 357 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,959 Speaker 1: political causes. And Pike was known for having some extreme, 358 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: really weird, you could say, outside the box ideas. One 359 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: that I was just briefly reading about was that in 360 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: nineteen forty three, as a proposal for for the war effort, 361 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Pike got pipe fever and he started thinking, we 362 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: need more pipes. We can transport things and people through pipes, 363 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: and that's way more efficient than trying to transport them 364 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,640 Speaker 1: just straightforwardly over land and vehicles and all that. So 365 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: he proposed the idea of transporting goods and soldiers like 366 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: from ship at shore too deep inside enemy territory through pipes. 367 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: And obviously this would have some drawbacks, especially when you're 368 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: trying to ship people through pipes, but in order to 369 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: combat claustrophobia and suffocation, the troops that were sent through 370 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: the pipe could be supplied with barbiturates and oxygen tanks. Wow. Um, yeah, 371 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: that's quite a quite an alternate reality to try and envision, 372 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,199 Speaker 1: one in which you would have basically like hot and 373 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: cold running um armed reinforcements. Right yeah. Uh So during 374 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: World War Two, the British military established an office known 375 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: as Combined Operations, and this was to coordinate actions that 376 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: required the cooperation of multiple branches of the armed forces, 377 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 1: so if you needed to combine naval and air forces 378 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: or army, et cetera. And in nineteen forty two, the 379 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: chief of Combined Operations was this guy named Lord Lewis 380 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: mount Baton, Lord mount Batton, is a big figure in 381 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: in twentieth century British history. He's sort of all over 382 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: the place. But Collins writes that Pike presented himself to 383 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: Mount Baton's Office of Combined Operations, and he basically told him, hey, 384 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 1: you need to hire me quote, because I'm a man 385 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: who thinks. And so Pike was thinking, and he came 386 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: up with an idea a response to this problem of 387 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: limited air power range in the Atlantic and elsewhere. That's right, 388 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: in October of nineteen two, Pike said, hey, why don't 389 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: we get an iceberg, hollow it out and used that 390 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: as a floating base, because this would it would float, 391 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: it would uh, it would be torpedo proof, and it 392 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: would it would certainly last long enough for us to 393 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: then establish better land bases. Right. So, the idea was 394 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: that a platform capable of launching bigger, heavier planes like 395 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: bombers and spitfires could be made out of ice and 396 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: and there were two approaches to this actually. So one 397 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 1: is the naturalistic approach, where you just take an existing 398 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: iceberg and you kind of plane it down and flatten 399 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 1: the surface and create a runway. The other would be 400 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: to create from scratch a giant barge made of ice. 401 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: But in general, Pike saw a lot of potential for 402 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: ice based technology since he claimed that manufacturing ice, even 403 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: if you're gonna make it yourself, needed only one percent 404 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: of the energy required to create the same amount of steel, right, 405 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: which which I mean that's playing into the energy demands. 406 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: But also just in general, you have a global war 407 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: going on, your resources like like steel and even would 408 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: like those are pretty much all already being contested, you know, 409 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: like those are needed by to to build airplanes, to 410 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: to build traditional ships, uh, munitions, et cetera. So if 411 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: you have a solution that requires less energy and none 412 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: of the steel that it needs to be used by 413 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: all these other parts of the war, Uh, then you 414 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: have a potential, um potentially amazing solution on your hands. Yeah, 415 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: it would be hugely advantageous if you could make something 416 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 1: like this work. And as you already mentioned, ice naturally floats, 417 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: just automatically floats in water, and this is because it's 418 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: less dense than liquid water, I think about nine percent 419 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: less dense. Also, ice is fairly resistant to explosives. They 420 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: had observed this just through the fact that icebergs that 421 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: already existed or surprisingly resilient against shelling by ships. Yeah, 422 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: I saw that tidbit brought up as well, and I 423 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: didn't I didn't have time to explore further. But of 424 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: course that just illustrates that warships are firing, or at 425 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: least we're firing at icebergs just for fun or for 426 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: for the target target practice. I do. Well, Yeah, I 427 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: wonder what the re and was. Why were they just 428 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: trying it out? Maybe the iceberg was in the form 429 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: of a lewd gesture they got kind of offended. Maybe so. 430 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: And by the way, about the the idea of being 431 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: resistant to explosives, I believe we're gonna come back around 432 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: to some more specific stats on this later. Ice was 433 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: believed to be relatively resistant to explosives at the time, 434 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: but it turns out I think that it's it's more 435 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: variable than that. Uh Well, one quick thing about ice floating. 436 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: I have Thompson briefly mentions this like this being a 437 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 1: key attribute of ice because imagine what the shape of 438 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: life on Earth if ice was heavier than liquid water, 439 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: If if ice formed at the bottom of the sea, 440 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: that would make that would just be a disastrous blow 441 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: to uh, to life as we know it. Like, imagine 442 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: how organisms would would function or would failed to function 443 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: in such an environment. Well, yeah, I've read about this before. 444 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: Also that the fact that ice floats on water and 445 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: means ice forms over the top of say, bodies of 446 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: fresh water that freeze in the in the winter, or 447 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: even you know, I guess over at the polar ice 448 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: caps that protects the water below from continuous freezing and 449 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: exposure to the elements above. So the fact that that 450 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: it floats allows life to continue in water in very 451 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 1: cold places. And also it means you might be able 452 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 1: to make a giant aircraft carrier out of it exactly. So, 453 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: so this is something from Collins here. Uh Pike's dream 454 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: became this hypothetical ice based ship that would be known 455 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: as the HMS Havocook. So I just want to read 456 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: from Collins a little bit on the size here. It 457 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: would be constructed from quote, forty foot blocks of ice. 458 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 1: His Havocook would be two thousand feet long, three hundred 459 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: feet wide, with walls forty feet thick. Its interior would 460 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: easily accommodate two hundred spitfires. The largest ship then afloat 461 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: was the h MS Queen Mary, which weighed in at 462 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: eighty six thousand tons, the Havocook would weigh two million tons. 463 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 1: That's a big boat. And uh and strangely enough, it 464 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: looks like leadership kind of went for it. Now, there 465 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: would be some obvious problems with a boat that size. Uh. 466 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: I mean, we can get into more of them as 467 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: we go on. One of them that was mentioned in Collins' 468 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: article was that, of course you'd have a problem with 469 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: a boat like this, uh, you know, getting advantage sneaking 470 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: up on anything, and would probably be kind of slow moving, 471 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: hard to steer all of that stuff. But in response 472 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: to that idea, apparently Pike said, quote surprise can be 473 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 1: obtained from permanence as well as suddenness. I like that. 474 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: I'm not sure I fully get that, but okay, I'm 475 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: like halfway there. So anyway, this idea definitely made it 476 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: up the chain. Winston Churchill I thought it sounded promising, 477 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: and according to Peruts in that forty six paper that 478 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: we referenced earlier, Churchill thought that while it should be 479 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: a high priority, he also thought that they should quote 480 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: let nature do the work. Uh So, in other words, uh, 481 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: let's maybe not build something out of ice. Let's see 482 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: what we can do. Uh, we can do making taking 483 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: advantage of what's already there. And in this this sounds 484 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: like a like classic boss thinking, this is a great idea, 485 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: but let's let's go towards the cheap version of the idea. 486 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: I like that you brought me the expensive version too, 487 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: but I really like that cheap version. Yeah, exactly. Let 488 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: nature do the work. And I've got a great story 489 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: about Churchill coming up in a minute. But just to 490 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,719 Speaker 1: expand on on Pike's thinking, this is this is a 491 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: great section from Collins quote in battle the ice ships 492 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 1: could put their onboard refrigeration systems to good use by 493 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: spraying super cooled water enemy ships icing their hatches shut, 494 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: clogging their guns, and freezing halfless sailors to death. Oh man. 495 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: In this, Pike essentially sounds like Mr Freeze from the 496 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: sixties Batman TV show. Is it more from the sixties 497 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: Batman or from Batman? The animated seas I would say 498 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,479 Speaker 1: it sounds it's either the Arnold Schwarzenegger Mr. Freeze or 499 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: the the TV show Mr Freeze. I feel like animated. Um. 500 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: Mr Freeze was like, uh was the ideal balance? Like that? 501 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: That's my Mr freeze. Yeah, that that was solid. Whereas 502 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: if you're doing if you're talking about something ridiculous, you 503 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: gotta go sixties or you gotta go Arnold. So Pike 504 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: presents his idea for a two million ton aircraft carrier 505 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: made out of ice, and and Churchill is like ice try, 506 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: you know, the one of the just crazy things about this. 507 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: First of all, this is not something that just came out, 508 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: like clearly, this is this idea has been public knowledge 509 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: since uh uh you know, at least since since you know, 510 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: the nineteen forties, right, since forty six when that paper 511 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: came out. And yet I feel like any like weird 512 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: alternate history book or you know that say if it's 513 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: like um, you know, the Golden Compass or uh something 514 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: by Alan Moore. For instance, if someone had said, oh, 515 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,959 Speaker 1: I really like this alternate version of reality you've got 516 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: going here, but why didn't you throw in a giant 517 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: aircraft carrier made out of ice that also shoots freezing 518 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: water at other ships? Put that in there, they would say, 519 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: now that's just too far, that's just too silly. I'm 520 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: not I'm not trying to create a farce here. That's 521 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: gonna be in some Kevin Costner Movie of the Future. 522 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: It's like in the water World and the Postman tradition. Yeah, 523 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: or I guess I feel like there there has First 524 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: of all, there has to be some sci fire fantasy 525 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: out there that has really latched onto this idea. But 526 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: I almost feel like it's such a weird idea. It's 527 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: got to be the idea you lead with, you know, 528 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: like everything has to be built around the ice ships 529 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: of you know, TheBus or whatever the uh your world 530 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: happens to be. Yeah, And so unfortunately, uh, this idea, 531 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: as as amazing as it is, ran into some problems 532 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: in the real world. Yeah. Yeah. Ultimately the bird ship 533 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: never came to be because for for a few different reasons. 534 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: One of the big ones though, was that icebergs didn't 535 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: rise high enough above the water line and ice flows 536 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: were too thin. Because that was another idea, Right, you 537 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: go get some ice flows, cut yourself out as you know, 538 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: the the amount that you needed, and use that as 539 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: the basis for your ship, right, tow them down from 540 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: the Arctic. Yeah. And then also further research into um, 541 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, the matters concerning the feasibility of constructing an 542 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: ice based carrier turned up some of the challenges, the 543 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: material challenges we've discussed already. Yeah, to go into a 544 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: little more detail on that. So you mentioned the fact 545 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: that natural ice just tends to not come out of 546 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: the water high enough when it's floating in the water. 547 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: Peruts talks about how the Fleet Air arm had figured 548 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: out that in order to have a working aircraft carrier 549 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: that planes could actually land on and take off from, 550 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta have a freeboard what's called a 551 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: freeboard of at least fifteen meters or about fifty feet 552 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: above the water. And the freeboard is just the height 553 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: of a ship stick above the water line. Yeah, if 554 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: you've ever seen a real aircraft carrier, you'll notice that 555 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: it rides pretty high. And this is what you're talking 556 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: about with ice flows being too thin, Like the natural 557 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: ice flows are just not tall enough, they're not going 558 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: to do the job. So engineers were given the job of, well, okay, 559 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: we've got to construct a man made aircraft carrier platform 560 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: of ice. But there was a sort of dearth of 561 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: knowledge about exactly what you could do with ice as 562 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: a building material. Pre Existing research on the structural properties 563 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: of ice was sort of all over the place. With 564 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: its findings. So experiments were carried out in Britain and 565 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: in Canada to try to sort these claims out. They 566 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: did a bunch of mechanical strength test results and actually 567 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: we learned a lot about ice. But part of what 568 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: they learned is that the way ice responds is in 569 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: fact highly variable and unpredictable, like the way it responds 570 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: to explosives is kind of unpredictable. Sometimes it's kind of resilient, 571 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: sometimes it gets obliterated, right, and you just you can't 572 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: just latch onto the results that you like now when 573 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: you're especially not when you're gonna try carry out a 574 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: project like this, right. And so there was another thing 575 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: they were testing for, which was the modulus of rupture 576 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: for ice. Uh. This is also known as flexural strength 577 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: or bend strength. Imagine a very simple test. Do you 578 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: have like two supports, and you put a slab of 579 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: a material on those two supports, and then you put 580 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: a weight pressing down in the middle between the two supports, 581 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: and for any given material, you see how much weight 582 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: a slab of it can sustain of pressure. And Peruts 583 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: writes that quote, the average modulus of rupture of ice 584 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: beams in bending, for instance, was found to be about 585 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: twenty two point five kilograms per square centimeter, but individual 586 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: beams sometimes failed at stresses as low as four point 587 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: nine kilograms per square centimeter. And this is not good. 588 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: Peruts points out that just regular old pine lumber has 589 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: a modulus of rupture somewhere around eight hundred kilograms, so 590 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: way better in general. And again the ice is somewhat variable. 591 00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: You might get a weak beam of ice here there. 592 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: You wouldn't even know it until you press on it. Right, 593 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: If you if you're gonna do if you're gonna build 594 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: something out of this, if you're gonna design something built 595 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: out of this this material, you need to know how 596 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: far you can push it, and it needs to be 597 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: at least you know, a dependable range, and not just 598 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: a roll of the dice exactly. So ice is just 599 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: really not sound as a large load bearing building material. 600 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: And so this leaves us around February of nineteen forty 601 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: three with ice looking like a bad candidate to build 602 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: an aircraft carrier out of. That's right, things look pretty bleak, 603 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: at least until they read the work of Herman Mark 604 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: and Walter P. Howenstein. Yeah, these guys were working out 605 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: of Brooklyn Polytechnic. Yeah, and they've been experimenting with frozen 606 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: water with wood pulp inside it, and they found that 607 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: this the resulting material, like essentially a mixture of frozen 608 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: water and wood pulp, was stronger than ice, significantly stronger. 609 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: Apparently Herman Mark had formerly been in Peruts, his teacher 610 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: at some point, And I found an account of the 611 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: discovery written by Peruts and quoted in a piece for 612 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: Chemistry World by Kit Chapman. Uh so these are Peruits's words. Quote. 613 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: Pike handed me a report that he said he had 614 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: found hard to understand. It was by Herman Mark, my 615 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: former professor of physical chemistry. As an expert on plastics, 616 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: he knew that many of them were brittle when pure, 617 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: but could be toughened by embedding fibers such as cellulose 618 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: in them, just as concrete can be reinforced with steel wires. 619 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: Mark and his assistant stirred a little cotton wool or 620 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: wood pulp, the raw material of newsprint into water before 621 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: they froze it, and found that these editions strengthened the 622 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: ice dramatically. And I love this comparison to actual building 623 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: practices such as embedding rebar steal wires within concrete when 624 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 1: you're making a building, the fibers or wires running longitudinally 625 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 1: through the material helped prevent rupture. But so this stuff, 626 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,720 Speaker 1: this mixed year of frozen water and wood pulp, would 627 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: come to be known as pike Wrete in honor of 628 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Pike a k a. Pike's Concrete. And there's an 629 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: anecdote about the discovery of this material and trying to 630 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: sell it up the chain that Collins reports, and he 631 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 1: gets it from the book Pike the Unknown Genius, published 632 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: by Evans Brothers in London in nineteen fifty nine, biography 633 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: of Jeffrey Pike written by David Lampey, and the story 634 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,720 Speaker 1: goes like this. So one day Prime Minister Winston Churchill 635 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: gets a visit from Lord mount Batton while while Churchill 636 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: is at the Prime Minister's country house known as Checkers. 637 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: And reportedly when mount Batton arrived at the house, the 638 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,760 Speaker 1: staff informed him that the Prime Minister was in the bath. 639 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: You know, he can't talk right now, he's he's having 640 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,320 Speaker 1: a good scrub, and Mount Batton was like, good, perfect, 641 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: take me to him. So Mount Baton charged into the bathroom. 642 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: And then from here I'm going to read from Collins 643 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: version of the account quote, I have Mount Baton explained 644 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: a block of new material that I would like to 645 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: put in your bath. Mount Batton opened his parcel and 646 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: dropped its contents between the Prime Minister's bare legs in 647 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: the water. It was a chunk of ice. Rather than 648 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: bellow at his chief of Combined Operations, Churchill stared at 649 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: the ice intently, and so standing by the bathtub did 650 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: Mount Batton himself. Minutes passed and they still looked into 651 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: the steaming depths of bathwater before them. The ice was 652 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: not melting. This is such a great moment and in 653 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: in global history right here, Um, I mean it all 654 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: and almost and certainly it has to be up there 655 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: for like great great nude moments in in world history. 656 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: And I'm just dealing with say like that the non 657 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: saucy moments and world history that mattered that also combined 658 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,720 Speaker 1: involved nudity like this has to be at naked Churchill 659 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: in his bath beholding this, uh, this this floating block 660 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: of wonder ice. Well, I'm not sure he was naked. 661 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: Maybe Churchill bathed in a tuxedo with tales on the 662 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: top hat you. Well, maybe, but then we're just in 663 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: a weirder territory. But so yeah, here here we have 664 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: pike Crete. And I should say that I'm a little 665 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: confused about the timeline here because some sources I was 666 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 1: looking at report that the Pike Create thing came in 667 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: like early nineteen forty three, but Collins puts this story 668 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: in late nineteen forty two, So there might be some 669 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: questions about the timeline here, and and and so I 670 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: do wonder about the veracity of the story, but I 671 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: have no reason to believe that it's fabricated, and I 672 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: want to believe it's true. Well on, and I don't 673 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: want to dispel this mental image. So we're gonna take 674 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: a quick break, keep this in your head, and then 675 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors, we will return and 676 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: bust open the pike Crete. Thank you, thank you. All right, 677 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: we're back. So here we are at the birth of 678 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: pike Crete, the potential solution to the Iceberg aircraft carrier problem. 679 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,280 Speaker 1: That's right. They realized that this was an avenue forward. 680 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: This was a way we might be able to strengthen 681 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: the ice so that we could do all the amazing 682 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: things that we want to do with it. So they experimented. 683 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: Different pulp ice combinations were tried. You know, they are 684 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: different pulps, would pulp rocks, other materials put in there, 685 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,879 Speaker 1: But they ultimately found that all you needed was as 686 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: little as four percent pulp and you would experience a 687 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:24,760 Speaker 1: huge upgrade endurability compared to regular ice. Basically, these embedded 688 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: materials prevented cracks in the ice from advancing. So I mean, 689 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 1: basically you could think of it as um um. You know, 690 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 1: a crack starts and instead of being able to eventually 691 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: vein its way through an entire block and bring it 692 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 1: to pieces, it could only go so far um before 693 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: it encountered something to stop it. So, if you were 694 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 1: going to make a wall out of ice, pike crete 695 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: would be a better candidate than regular ice. Yes, yes, 696 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: as Thompson points out, it's not that it would make it. 697 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,320 Speaker 1: I mean it makes it more durable, and it doesn't 698 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: mean that it would be invincible. It would still fail, 699 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,800 Speaker 1: but it would fail in a much more predictable fashion. 700 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: And and that's also why Thompson ultimately points out that 701 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: if your brand the builder brand, in the builder, the 702 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: legendary brand, if you're looking to build a giant wall 703 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,280 Speaker 1: of ice, even with the help of some magical beings. Uh, 704 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,720 Speaker 1: doing something like pike crete would be your best option 705 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: for building that wall. Yeah. So I was reading Perutz's 706 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: reports about these experiments with pike crete about like the 707 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 1: optimal type of wood pulp to use, the optimal amount 708 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: of wood pulp and suspension of water to use. So 709 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: it looks like they usually ended up using spruce or 710 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 1: pine wood pulp that's ground up by machines. And this 711 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: is the pulp that ultimately would become the pages of 712 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: a newspaper in another context. Uh. And then when in 713 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: liquid form, this this mixture has interesting properties, Like a 714 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: five percent suspension is sort of porridge like, it's kind 715 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: of like oatmeal, But I tend to fifteen percent suspension 716 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: is more like a sponge. And when you freeze it, 717 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: you Yeah, you get this resulting matrix of water, ice 718 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: and saturated wood fiber that becomes extremely tough. You can 719 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: bash it, shoot it. It tends to hold together very well. 720 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 1: There's a famous story of Lord Mountbatton taking out his 721 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 1: pistol at a meeting of Allied commanders to shoot a 722 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,919 Speaker 1: block of ice. Of course, when he shoots the block 723 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: of ice it shatters all over the place, and then 724 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: shoot a block of pike crete to demonstrate the difference. 725 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,720 Speaker 1: And apparently when he shot the pike crete, the bullet 726 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: ricochet and graze the pant leg of an American admiral 727 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: in the room. Oh my goodness. There are also reports 728 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: that the people outside heard the shooting. They had not 729 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 1: been warned, and they were like, who's shooting in there? 730 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: Is there an assassination going on? But no, it's just 731 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: just dashing Lord Mountbatton with his pistol shooting it materials 732 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: to to make a point. This just said, this is 733 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 1: so weird, and it's again, I don't think it has 734 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 1: ever been in a in a film. I had a 735 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 1: I had a Russian history professor wants who who was 736 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,359 Speaker 1: fond of pointing out that, you know, you'll see some 737 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: movies about um, for instance, that Eastern Front during World 738 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 1: War Two, but you're always going to see the same stories, 739 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 1: the same particular stories told time and time again. When 740 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: when there's so many additional uh, you know, it's equally 741 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: interesting and in many times strange stories that are spread 742 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 1: out across that entire theater of the war. UM and 743 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: and likewise, when you look at like all the things 744 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: that are going on during this period, you have you 745 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: have stuff like this that just for some reason has 746 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: a way of falling through the cracks. Yeah, totally, and 747 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 1: and it still keeps getting weirder. So another thing about 748 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 1: this project is that it had to be very secretive. 749 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,800 Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is top secret military research 750 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: at the time. So you had people making just big 751 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: troughs and buckets of wood pulp mixed with water. And 752 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: this is like the same level of secrecy where the 753 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,439 Speaker 1: as where people are trying to create a death ray 754 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: or something. Uh. They apparently they took out refrigerated rooms 755 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,800 Speaker 1: under a London meat market, I think it was Smithfield's market. 756 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 1: They converted this into this top secret experiment. Shan in 757 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: manufacturing space for pikerete and Perut says that a lot 758 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: of people working on PI crete research had no idea 759 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: what this was going to be used for, Like they 760 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: were kept in the dark in order to maintain you know, 761 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: ops seck. But a few of the things they determined 762 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,359 Speaker 1: in their research. One was that an ideal amount of 763 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: wood pulp to make PI crete it's about fourteen percent, 764 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 1: so you know, like eighty six percent water, fourteen percent 765 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,240 Speaker 1: wood pulp. UH. They also found that temperature can matter 766 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,399 Speaker 1: a lot this material. A lot of the good things 767 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,319 Speaker 1: about it become less reliable as it warms up, and 768 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 1: so in order for it to have its optimal features, 769 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,440 Speaker 1: it really needs to be kept at about negative fifteen 770 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,239 Speaker 1: degrees celsius. But if you keep it cold, it is 771 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,320 Speaker 1: much stronger than regular ice. It behaves much more predictably 772 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: than regular water ice. Peruit says that it gave results 773 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 1: which were reproducible to within about plus or minus, and 774 00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,040 Speaker 1: the wood pulp actually decreased the brittleness of ice so 775 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 1: much that Perut says that pike crete was ductal and 776 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: could even be machined on a lathe. So ductle means 777 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,680 Speaker 1: that it can be stretched out into a wire, so 778 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 1: that that's definitely showing you a material that is tough 779 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: and not brittle. So he said, we'd come back around 780 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: to just how torpedo proof pie create would be uh. 781 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,400 Speaker 1: In In researching this, they found that a torpedo would 782 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 1: upon impact, dig in about sixty centimeters and then it 783 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: would um. It would create out a four point five 784 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: meter area in the pike create. So they figured, okay, 785 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: we would need to have a nine meter thick hole 786 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,439 Speaker 1: that would do the work. Um and then of course 787 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: also to accommodate the aircraft, as I think we already mentioned, 788 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: it would need to be like six long and sixty wide, 789 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 1: so huge again, yeah, enormous. So basically this is this 790 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 1: is the sort of durability that would prevent a U 791 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,359 Speaker 1: boat from being able to like sneak in, pop off 792 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,520 Speaker 1: a torpedo and just bring the whole thing down. Right, 793 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 1: It was supposed to be sort of like a floating 794 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: fortress or a floating island. It would just be, for 795 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: practical purposes invulnerable, But that doesn't mean it was without problems. 796 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,919 Speaker 1: So like, one of the things that they observed while 797 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: they were testing the material properties of PI crete was 798 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: that PI crete is like other ice, subject to something 799 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:23,359 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier creep. Creep is again the slow deformation 800 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 1: of materials under pressure over time, the slow flow. So 801 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: if you put a heavy load on a slab of 802 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 1: PI crete, it's not nearly as susceptible to cracking and 803 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: rupture as regular ice is. But if you just leave 804 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,400 Speaker 1: that load there, the slab will probably sag over time, 805 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 1: which is not something you want to happen if you're 806 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: going to be parking aircraft on it and stuff like that. 807 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,440 Speaker 1: So research revealed times and periods of creep were different 808 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 1: for different substances, depending on you know, the kind of 809 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,799 Speaker 1: wood pulp, different percent suspensions and all that. But the 810 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 1: temperature constraint was again very important they need. They determined 811 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: that negative fifteen degrees celsius was like the highest permissible 812 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,839 Speaker 1: working temperature. If it gets warmer than that, this boat 813 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,319 Speaker 1: is going to be in trouble. Okay. So eventually in 814 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: ninety three, the naval engineers decided, yes, Pike write is 815 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: strong enough, we can make this. We can do it, 816 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,320 Speaker 1: so get to work constructing our berg ship. Uh Peruts 817 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: reports that they wanted to have a working prototype that 818 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 1: would be ready within the next winter season, and then 819 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,440 Speaker 1: soon after that a fleet of them which would be 820 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,880 Speaker 1: ready for a possible invasion of Japan, and uh Peruts 821 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,799 Speaker 1: notes that too many engineers this seemed impossible, but then 822 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,879 Speaker 1: he puts it within the context of the whole sort 823 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,680 Speaker 1: of like war orientation, and Peruts writes, quote in retrospect, 824 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,160 Speaker 1: this may seem the obvious verdicts, but it must be 825 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,160 Speaker 1: remembered that the berkship plan was only one of several 826 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:54,279 Speaker 1: apparently impossible engineering feats conceived during during the war e g. 827 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,400 Speaker 1: The atomic bomb, and that the question was not so 828 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: much one of absolute feasibility, but rather of whether the 829 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,840 Speaker 1: ultimate strategic advantages to be gained by the burg ships 830 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: were in proportion to the expenditure of manpower and materials 831 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,479 Speaker 1: involved in their construction. In fact, I think that had 832 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,600 Speaker 1: not the course of the war and the state of 833 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,360 Speaker 1: our armaments changed, the burg ship could have been constructed. 834 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,600 Speaker 1: So that's Peruts's opinion. He thinks, you know, if if 835 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,879 Speaker 1: things hadn't changed made it not so rewarding, we could 836 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,319 Speaker 1: have done it. Just a couple more physical details about 837 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: the proposal that I thought were very interesting. One is 838 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: that this hypothetical giant berg ship would have had a 839 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,400 Speaker 1: waterproof skin on the outside to help insulate the pike Create. 840 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,760 Speaker 1: But then also the material would have to be cooled 841 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,239 Speaker 1: with artificial refrigeration, right because they've got to keep it 842 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,439 Speaker 1: at negative fifteen degrees celsius or colder. So they would 843 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:50,239 Speaker 1: have an air conditioning system on the aircraft carrier made 844 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,360 Speaker 1: of pike create to refrigerate the pike create and it 845 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: would be blowing compressed air on it to keep it cold. 846 00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,879 Speaker 1: But the downside is if you think about that, oh man, 847 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,520 Speaker 1: if the air conditioning system breaks, then your ship could 848 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,040 Speaker 1: start melting and lose structural integrity. Though another good thing 849 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,399 Speaker 1: about pike creat as we mentioned earlier, is that it 850 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,239 Speaker 1: melts more slowly than regular ice, so you'd still have 851 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,319 Speaker 1: a bigger window of time than you would on a 852 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,880 Speaker 1: regular iceberg. I can't help but be reminded of the 853 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,160 Speaker 1: old There was an old Disney cartoon with like Donald 854 00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,480 Speaker 1: Duck and the nephews battling each other, you know, like 855 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,239 Speaker 1: an epic snowball fight. Do you remember this one? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, 856 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: And Donald Duck, I believe, builds like a warship out 857 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,239 Speaker 1: of ice, and it is he's, you know, devastating his 858 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,840 Speaker 1: nephews until they they like they have like a flaming 859 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,840 Speaker 1: bow and arrow, which seems a little violent in retrospect, 860 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 1: but they fired that into his ice ship and then 861 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,920 Speaker 1: melt it and it like melts into the shape of 862 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,840 Speaker 1: like a duck skull. Brutal. Yeah, it's it's weird stuff, Okay, 863 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 1: But a couple more questions about this aircraft carrier, Like 864 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:50,759 Speaker 1: if you're going to take this idea seriously and try 865 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,440 Speaker 1: to actually build it. First of all, where do you 866 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:58,080 Speaker 1: freeze it? Uh? You know, remember that Winston Churchill wanted 867 00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,879 Speaker 1: to let nature do the jaw, but that was his quote, 868 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,840 Speaker 1: That was the cheap boss idea. But it quickly became 869 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,279 Speaker 1: apparent that this was just not really feasible. There was 870 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,760 Speaker 1: just nowhere they could find on Earth where you could 871 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:14,120 Speaker 1: you could feasibly let natural cold freeze this thing in place. 872 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,920 Speaker 1: It just wasn't gonna work. So instead they turned to 873 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:21,320 Speaker 1: some artificial construction ideas that would be based in Canada. 874 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,800 Speaker 1: Peruts writes quote. The locality eventually selected for building the 875 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,560 Speaker 1: prototype was corner Brook in Newfoundland, where I said it 876 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,239 Speaker 1: right this time, you did, yeah, and uh and I 877 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:32,880 Speaker 1: But I was more reacting to the fact that I've 878 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: been to corner Brook. I barely remember it that I 879 00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:36,880 Speaker 1: was a child at a time, but yeah, I've been 880 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,480 Speaker 1: to corner Brook. Oh what's it like? Okay, I think 881 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,520 Speaker 1: I think I got to get a toy at a 882 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,640 Speaker 1: gas station or something there like. That's of course the 883 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,840 Speaker 1: only thing I remember because I was a child. But 884 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: I remember the name, well, it sounds lovely and it 885 00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,000 Speaker 1: sounds cold because Peruts said the the average daily temperature 886 00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,440 Speaker 1: was negative five degrees celsius. I guess this would be 887 00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,400 Speaker 1: in the winter time, but it could be acted for 888 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,360 Speaker 1: a hundred days straight and there you would have protected 889 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,560 Speaker 1: waters of sufficient depth in order to try to build 890 00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 1: one of these things. Now. Peruts also says, you know, 891 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,840 Speaker 1: even though it wasn't made of steel and didn't require 892 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 1: steel like like a regular warship would, it is still 893 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:21,040 Speaker 1: a huge material and investment. One ship alone would require 894 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 1: one point seven million tons of pike crete material. Where 895 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,520 Speaker 1: can you make that much? Perutes argues that this alone 896 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,759 Speaker 1: would have required a refrigerated plant of something like a 897 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,839 Speaker 1: hundred acres or forty hectares, and this would take away 898 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,239 Speaker 1: from other industrial needs of the Allied war effort. Yeah, 899 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,439 Speaker 1: you can't build that out of ice. You're gonna write 900 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,560 Speaker 1: to build that out of out of metal and wood, right, yes. 901 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,799 Speaker 1: And so these difficulties we've been talking about, along with 902 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:52,600 Speaker 1: other changing circumstances, ultimately caused the Allies to abandon the 903 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,880 Speaker 1: plan for bird ships in nineteen forty four. Uh. And 904 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,840 Speaker 1: the other circumstances were a range of things. One was 905 00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:04,399 Speaker 1: that there was that airplanes themselves started to get increasing 906 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:09,480 Speaker 1: flight range. Yeah, I just our aviation technology increased enough 907 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:15,600 Speaker 1: to where suddenly those um uh, those distances weren't insurmountable anymore. Yeah, 908 00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:19,200 Speaker 1: and Parutes actually says that, uh, it's I guess a 909 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,840 Speaker 1: lot of these changes started around nineteen forty two, the 910 00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,879 Speaker 1: same time this project started. But eventually you could get 911 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,040 Speaker 1: land based airplanes out far enough over the ocean to 912 00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,880 Speaker 1: provide sufficient air cover even even if they had to 913 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,600 Speaker 1: launch from from bases on land. And other things were 914 00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,640 Speaker 1: the acquiring of additional bases on land. So like a 915 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:43,440 Speaker 1: couple of sources mentioned the fact that Portugal granted the 916 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,600 Speaker 1: Allies use of the Azores in the Atlantic and this 917 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 1: helped helped them reach farther out into the ocean. So 918 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,759 Speaker 1: there's that on the one hand, and then on the 919 00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:56,400 Speaker 1: other hand, some changes in airplanes also meant that you 920 00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,279 Speaker 1: needed even more runway space than you had before. So 921 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,680 Speaker 1: it would mean that you could build this six hundred 922 00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:06,080 Speaker 1: meter long floating runway, make this huge investment to build 923 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,480 Speaker 1: this thing, and then a lot of the new planes 924 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,560 Speaker 1: that you want to launch can't even get off of 925 00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,000 Speaker 1: it because now that's not long enough for them. They've 926 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:14,960 Speaker 1: just got to be launched from the ground still, So 927 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,439 Speaker 1: as you're accommodating what kind of platform you can get 928 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,319 Speaker 1: out into the middle of the ocean, the planes are 929 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:24,480 Speaker 1: requiring more and more platform all the time. Finally, Peruts 930 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,840 Speaker 1: also notes that quote the island hopping campaign of the 931 00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,680 Speaker 1: American forces in the Pacific had been successful beyond expectation, 932 00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:36,080 Speaker 1: and had made an eventual invasion of Japan appear feasible 933 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,040 Speaker 1: without large floating air bases. So just in general, in 934 00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,359 Speaker 1: this short amount of time, the world had moved on 935 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,480 Speaker 1: and was leaving the idea of the birdship behind it. Right, 936 00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,080 Speaker 1: So we never got to find out if this idea 937 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,560 Speaker 1: could really be achieved, because it just it just sort 938 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,840 Speaker 1: of became obsolete as the war progressed. But there's an 939 00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:00,680 Speaker 1: interesting note that that Peruts makes about this project as 940 00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,400 Speaker 1: a contribution to ice science in general. He writes, quote, Nevertheless, 941 00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,400 Speaker 1: the volume of first rate data produced within a period 942 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,279 Speaker 1: of six months in this country and in Canada under 943 00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,360 Speaker 1: the pressure of war far exceeded the total volume of 944 00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,680 Speaker 1: reliable work that had been done before on the mechanical 945 00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:20,919 Speaker 1: properties of ice itself. So war, what is it good for? Um? Well? 946 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,440 Speaker 1: I still think the song is correct. Absolutely nothing. But 947 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:27,239 Speaker 1: I guess you could make an argument for the advancement 948 00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,719 Speaker 1: of of our understanding of ice. Well, it makes you wonder, like, 949 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,920 Speaker 1: what if we just put the amount of priorities on 950 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,200 Speaker 1: regular scientific research that we put that we put on 951 00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:41,319 Speaker 1: that research when it's necessary to win a war. Yeah. Absolutely. Um. 952 00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,280 Speaker 1: I remember Neil de grasse Tyson making this point about 953 00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,880 Speaker 1: about space exploration. He was I forget which book this was, 954 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:51,520 Speaker 1: but he's basically saying, Hey, you know, if we really 955 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,200 Speaker 1: want to get serious about about space exploration, we need 956 00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,040 Speaker 1: to fake the existence of an extraterrestrial enemy, because that 957 00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,319 Speaker 1: we can get the war machine behind it. If that well, 958 00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,719 Speaker 1: if if we can get that kind of political and 959 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,160 Speaker 1: public capital, uh supporting it, you know, then we could 960 00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:10,080 Speaker 1: do all sorts of things. Um. Unfortunately, in a way, 961 00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,320 Speaker 1: I kind of agree. I guess this is the asymandias 962 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,239 Speaker 1: theory from Watchman, right, But um, but I think part 963 00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:17,879 Speaker 1: of the problem is a lot of what you would 964 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,440 Speaker 1: end up researching was the creation of newer, more powerful weapons, 965 00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:25,400 Speaker 1: which are maybe not exactly what we need. Right. I 966 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,279 Speaker 1: think we've discussed this before in terms of of of 967 00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,919 Speaker 1: rocket science under the third Reich. You know, there's there's 968 00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:37,080 Speaker 1: often this um sort of fantastic misconception that there is 969 00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,160 Speaker 1: you know, there's these great advancements in space technology, and 970 00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,600 Speaker 1: there's oh there was a secret Moon base that the 971 00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,480 Speaker 1: Nazis had, that sort of thing, that the Nazi space program. 972 00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:48,120 Speaker 1: But and really you do, and of course you did 973 00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,520 Speaker 1: have a lot of of of brilliant minds working at 974 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,919 Speaker 1: the time, but like so many other brilliant minds during 975 00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,640 Speaker 1: this global war, they were sucked into that black hole 976 00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:03,239 Speaker 1: of of global conflict. So their value to these nations 977 00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,799 Speaker 1: that they were, um they were serving, We're we're just 978 00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,680 Speaker 1: boiled down to warfare interests like, oh, you're good at rocketry, Well, 979 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,399 Speaker 1: can you make rocket bring death to this country? Oh 980 00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:15,640 Speaker 1: you you you know about how ice works? Well that's 981 00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:18,359 Speaker 1: great because we're trying to build a massive weapon out 982 00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:20,279 Speaker 1: of it. That sort of thing. Yeah, totally, I mean, 983 00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:22,920 Speaker 1: you know, we don't want to downplay that. Like in 984 00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,920 Speaker 1: in Germany there were actually advances made in rocketry that 985 00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,200 Speaker 1: were later put to peaceful uses, but the uses they 986 00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,960 Speaker 1: were put to, primarily during the war were to reign 987 00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,520 Speaker 1: held down on England and other allies. But so anyway, 988 00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,840 Speaker 1: that's the end of the historical pike crete story. You 989 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,400 Speaker 1: know that that the project came to an end, and 990 00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,520 Speaker 1: there has not been a lot of serious investigation of 991 00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,560 Speaker 1: pike crete, uh at certainly not at that scale. Since then, 992 00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:52,120 Speaker 1: people have done little projects where people have built structures 993 00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,480 Speaker 1: out of pike crete and stuff, and and that's interesting. 994 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,960 Speaker 1: And in fact there have even been like, uh like 995 00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:59,640 Speaker 1: MythBusters and some other TV shows kind of like this. 996 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,560 Speaker 1: I think there's one in in Britain called Bang Goes 997 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:06,040 Speaker 1: the Theory that have tested out small boats made of 998 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:10,160 Speaker 1: pi crete. I know in the MythBusters episode they tested 999 00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,760 Speaker 1: the mechanical properties of pi crete, like trying to drop 1000 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,600 Speaker 1: it from certain heights and smash it, and they confirmed 1001 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,400 Speaker 1: the kind of stuff that pruits had already been saying 1002 00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,879 Speaker 1: that like a frozen block of water saturated wood pulp 1003 00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,719 Speaker 1: did indeed melt a lot more slowly than an equivalent 1004 00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,480 Speaker 1: sized block of water ice. It was also a lot 1005 00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,040 Speaker 1: more structurally sound when when dropped from a height of 1006 00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,160 Speaker 1: about six ft, a frozen block of water would you know, 1007 00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:35,720 Speaker 1: shatter into a million pieces, just like you would expect, 1008 00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,840 Speaker 1: but a block of frozen pie crete would break maybe 1009 00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,080 Speaker 1: in half. Maybe lose a piece here and there, but 1010 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,640 Speaker 1: it was not nearly as brittle as the water ice alone. 1011 00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,440 Speaker 1: And then in the MythBusters investigation, they actually make something 1012 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,360 Speaker 1: they end up calling super pi crete, which is instead 1013 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,520 Speaker 1: of using wood pulp in its you know, very small 1014 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:59,480 Speaker 1: shaved up form, they use whole sheets of newspaper frozen 1015 00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,759 Speaker 1: within the ice. And the sheet newspaper pike Cree was 1016 00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,839 Speaker 1: super strong. It was extremely resistant shattering. Oh man, if 1017 00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:11,040 Speaker 1: you used a newspaper that has really strong journalistic integrity 1018 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,799 Speaker 1: and it's gonna hold up even more. One other just 1019 00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,919 Speaker 1: sort of popular media thing I came across was that 1020 00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,520 Speaker 1: there is a YouTube channel called the Hydraulic Press Channel. 1021 00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:23,239 Speaker 1: Have you ever watched this? No, but I'm assuming it's 1022 00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,480 Speaker 1: it's like the old David Letterman bit right where the 1023 00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:27,880 Speaker 1: where he would put take different things and put it 1024 00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:32,120 Speaker 1: in a hydraulic press. Okay, it's exactly that. It's just something. Okay, excellent. 1025 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,600 Speaker 1: I did not know that was a David Letterman thing. Yes, 1026 00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's like the old David Letterman show. They 1027 00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,840 Speaker 1: would do that. Yeah, that's great television. And and I 1028 00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,120 Speaker 1: gotta admit, you know, I start one of these videos 1029 00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:43,880 Speaker 1: up I'm probably gonna watch it to the end. I 1030 00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,560 Speaker 1: just I want to see what it looks like. So yeah, 1031 00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,200 Speaker 1: and you know why again, it's James Cameron's fault because 1032 00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:53,080 Speaker 1: of Terminator one. Yes, as children, we watched that scene 1033 00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,600 Speaker 1: where the eight hundred is crushed in the hydraulic press 1034 00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,120 Speaker 1: and it made an impact on it. It burned into 1035 00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,240 Speaker 1: our psyche, and there's just something about a hydraulic press 1036 00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,760 Speaker 1: we can't look away. Yeah, So the hydraulic press channel, 1037 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,560 Speaker 1: they tested out some PI create regular sawdust pikereate, and 1038 00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:11,799 Speaker 1: they found, of course, it does not shatter the way 1039 00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,160 Speaker 1: you would expect ice to shatter. Instead, I would say 1040 00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:17,760 Speaker 1: that it seems to under extreme pressure, it seems to 1041 00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:23,080 Speaker 1: first kind of melt around the edges and then crumble ultimately, 1042 00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,160 Speaker 1: I mean, under much more pressure than it takes to 1043 00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,960 Speaker 1: crush a similar amount of ice, it ultimately kind of 1044 00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:32,000 Speaker 1: crumbles in a sticky looking way, kind of like a 1045 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:36,720 Speaker 1: crumbly block of feta cheese. Can you picture this, Yes, 1046 00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,320 Speaker 1: they can picture something that looks like a cross between 1047 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:44,040 Speaker 1: crumbly feta cheese and maybe like orange juice concentrate. And 1048 00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,040 Speaker 1: so it's just kind of peeling off in pieces like that. 1049 00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:52,960 Speaker 1: They also they also try some newspaper mush pike create this. 1050 00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,480 Speaker 1: This does also kind of a melt and a sticky crumble. 1051 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,920 Speaker 1: The pieces are softer, less frozen, and then they end 1052 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,600 Speaker 1: up using what looks me like toilet paper. I'm not 1053 00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:05,680 Speaker 1: sure that they call it sheet paper, but this one's 1054 00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,400 Speaker 1: got a really interesting texture. It's worth looking up. It 1055 00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:12,200 Speaker 1: kind of flakes when crushed, and the flakes are still 1056 00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,960 Speaker 1: they demonstrate very large and strong, so it it looks 1057 00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,479 Speaker 1: like something that would be soft and melt in your hand, 1058 00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:20,800 Speaker 1: like a piece of butter or cheese, but then when 1059 00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:22,880 Speaker 1: you pick it up, it's like solid. You can bang 1060 00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,560 Speaker 1: it against stuff anyway. Very interesting material and something that 1061 00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:28,920 Speaker 1: I think you can quite easily make or make a 1062 00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,800 Speaker 1: version of at home. That's right, I mean, ultimately people 1063 00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,400 Speaker 1: can make their own pie create at home after listening 1064 00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,080 Speaker 1: to this show, and then tell us about how it went. 1065 00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,440 Speaker 1: There was a thing in that Cabinet magazine article by 1066 00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:44,840 Speaker 1: Paul Collins where he quotes a professor, a professor named 1067 00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:49,080 Speaker 1: Erlin Schulson, director of the Ice Research Laboratory at Dartmouth College, 1068 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,840 Speaker 1: and Schulson uh is trying to answer the question of 1069 00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,320 Speaker 1: why modern people don't make better use of pie crete 1070 00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:57,720 Speaker 1: in the light of its benefits. And he just says, 1071 00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,720 Speaker 1: I don't really know why it has languished in obscurity. 1072 00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:03,960 Speaker 1: It seems like something that could actually be useful for 1073 00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,080 Speaker 1: a lot of things, but for some reason, nobody's not nobody. 1074 00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:08,920 Speaker 1: I mean, people have done things here and there, but 1075 00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:10,960 Speaker 1: it does not seem like it has been taken up 1076 00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,280 Speaker 1: in uh in a large way. So that's the past 1077 00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,320 Speaker 1: and the present. UH we might well wonder about the 1078 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:22,000 Speaker 1: future of ice based building. And UH, I was looking 1079 00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,920 Speaker 1: around a little on this and I ran across um 1080 00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:30,520 Speaker 1: The Uses of Martian ice papered by Charles S. Uh Cockle, 1081 00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:34,120 Speaker 1: published in the Interdisciplinary Science Reviews. This is back in 1082 00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:38,920 Speaker 1: two thousand four. Uh Cockle rights quote Martian polar ices 1083 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,800 Speaker 1: could be used as a shield by human explorers. By 1084 00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:45,360 Speaker 1: covering a research station with ice, high energy solar particles 1085 00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:51,040 Speaker 1: could be absorbed, protecting explorers from potentially damaging radiation exposure. Finally, 1086 00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:56,040 Speaker 1: martian ices provide a substratum over which scientific and exploratory 1087 00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:59,400 Speaker 1: expeditions could traverse on their way to deep field sites, 1088 00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:04,000 Speaker 1: and the geographic poles themselves. Martian polar ices have the 1089 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,680 Speaker 1: potential to open a new and unique chapter in the 1090 01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:11,479 Speaker 1: long relationship between humans and ice. So that's a neat idea, 1091 01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:14,360 Speaker 1: like the idea of building structures out of ice, and 1092 01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,400 Speaker 1: it sounds like like highways of ice on the Red planet. Sure, 1093 01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,080 Speaker 1: and I think this has been proposed by other people 1094 01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,520 Speaker 1: in the past. Uh I can't remember where, but I 1095 01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:27,040 Speaker 1: know I've encountered the idea of using ice or even 1096 01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:30,560 Speaker 1: a mixed up matrix of of ice and and other 1097 01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,520 Speaker 1: fibers kind of like PI crete to build structures potentially 1098 01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,160 Speaker 1: on on like asteroid surfaces. Yeah, so there may be 1099 01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:42,040 Speaker 1: some potential for for Pie create there. Um I was 1100 01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,160 Speaker 1: looking around for some more takes on this, and uh 1101 01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:48,760 Speaker 1: I came across an interesting concept, the mars ice House project, 1102 01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:51,600 Speaker 1: which is a concept that one at the two fifteen 1103 01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,720 Speaker 1: New York Makers Fair. They have a really sleek website 1104 01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,640 Speaker 1: at mars ice house dot com. But this is a 1105 01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:03,640 Speaker 1: concept from from search that's uh the Space Exploration, Space 1106 01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:08,880 Speaker 1: Exploration Architecture and clouds AO that's Clouds Architecture Office. And 1107 01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:12,520 Speaker 1: it basically the ideas too is to have robotic machines 1108 01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,480 Speaker 1: three D printing buildings and structures out of ice on 1109 01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:20,080 Speaker 1: the Martian surface, and they claim that quote. In consultation 1110 01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:24,840 Speaker 1: with our team's expert scientific advisors, astrophysicists, geologists, structural engineers, 1111 01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:28,040 Speaker 1: and renowned three D printing experts, we have achieved positive 1112 01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:32,320 Speaker 1: experimentation with one to one ice printing and successfully analyzed 1113 01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:37,160 Speaker 1: structural models. Now, obviously there are a lot of caveats here, 1114 01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,560 Speaker 1: related both to the properties of ice and the particular 1115 01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:42,240 Speaker 1: challenges of the Martian environment. But I think it's really 1116 01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:46,840 Speaker 1: really a thought provoking concept. You know, imagine ghost cities 1117 01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:50,920 Speaker 1: made out of ice built on Mars by autonomous laborers. 1118 01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:55,880 Speaker 1: Robots build structures that nobody's in yet. I like it. Yeah, yeah, 1119 01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:02,960 Speaker 1: just like weird like geometric egglues cities on Mars, and 1120 01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:04,360 Speaker 1: and and uh. I don't know that they really get 1121 01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:06,320 Speaker 1: into the pie creek concept as much, but it makes 1122 01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,920 Speaker 1: sense that that could be a part of it as well. 1123 01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,000 Speaker 1: I think part of the secret to this is don't 1124 01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,200 Speaker 1: let Kohagen buy up that city. He can't get in 1125 01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,720 Speaker 1: early because he's not going to give the people to air. 1126 01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:22,160 Speaker 1: That's true, he's he is stingy with the air, but 1127 01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,400 Speaker 1: the ice up for grabs. I guess all right, So 1128 01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:29,600 Speaker 1: there you have it, pie Crete, ice, Walls of Ice. 1129 01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,919 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this journey. It was a fun 1130 01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:36,040 Speaker 1: one to go on with you, and as always, we'd 1131 01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,520 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Do you have thoughts on 1132 01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,479 Speaker 1: on ice itself? On pie crete? Have you ever made 1133 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,440 Speaker 1: pie crete? Uh? Do you just have any feedback on 1134 01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:49,400 Speaker 1: the various um contemplations regarding like eighties and nineties cinema 1135 01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:51,760 Speaker 1: that we have touched on. Uh? You know how to 1136 01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:53,480 Speaker 1: get in touch with this? Joe will provide the details 1137 01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,960 Speaker 1: here in a second um. As always, if you want 1138 01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:58,880 Speaker 1: to listen to other episodes of Stuff to Blow your Mind, 1139 01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:01,920 Speaker 1: you know where to find us. Wherever you get your podcast. 1140 01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:03,560 Speaker 1: There are a million places to get us out there. 1141 01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,440 Speaker 1: All we ask in return is that if you have 1142 01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:10,000 Speaker 1: the ability to rate, review, and subscribe, do that because 1143 01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:12,960 Speaker 1: that helps us out huge. Thanks as always to our 1144 01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,800 Speaker 1: excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like 1145 01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:18,680 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us with feedback on this 1146 01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,320 Speaker 1: episode or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, 1147 01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:23,840 Speaker 1: or just to say hi, you can email us at 1148 01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:34,760 Speaker 1: contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff 1149 01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:36,960 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind is production of i heart Radio. 1150 01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,640 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart 1151 01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,440 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your 1152 01:03:42,480 --> 01:04:01,360 Speaker 1: favorite shows. No no, no