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Speaker 1: Have climate change and immigration policies become new articles of

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Speaker 1: faith in the Catholic Church. And is marry a co

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Speaker 1: redemn tricks with Jesus in salvation the Prayerful Posse. We'll

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Speaker 1: explore it all next. Welcome to an important Prayerful Posse.

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Speaker 1: Be sure to go subscribe to the show. It's a

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Speaker 1: wonderful way to support our work and it's totally free.

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Speaker 1: Or visit Raymondroyo dot com. Let's convene the Prayerful Posse.

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Speaker 1: Canon lawyer and priests to the Archdiocese of New York,

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Speaker 1: Father Gerald Murray, an editor in chief of The Catholic

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Speaker 1: Thing dot org.

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Speaker 2: Robert Royal joining us from Europe a.

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Speaker 1: Very mysterious Europe. It looks like Bob Gens. Pope Leo

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Speaker 1: has been making a lot of headlines this week. During

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Speaker 1: one of his press gaggles outside of Costo Gondolfo, the

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Speaker 1: Pope offered up a very pointed commentary on what appeared

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Speaker 1: to be US immigration policy, role.

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Speaker 3: Of the churches to preach the Gospel, And just a

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Speaker 3: couple of days ago, we heard Matthew's Gospel Chapter twenty five,

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Speaker 3: which says Jesus says very clearly at the end of

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Speaker 3: the world, we're going to be asked, you know, how

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Speaker 3: did you receive the foreigner? Did you receive him and

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Speaker 3: welcome him or not? And I think that many people

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Speaker 3: who have lived for years and years and years, never

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Speaker 3: causing problems, have been deeply affected by what's going on

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Speaker 3: right now, and I would certainly invite the authorities to

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Speaker 3: allow pastoral workers to attend to the needs of those people,

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Speaker 3: many times have been separated from their families for good

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Speaker 3: amount of time. No one knows what's happening, but their

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Speaker 3: own spiritual needs should be attended to it.

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Speaker 1: Father, your thoughts on the pope waiting into immigration policy,

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Speaker 1: particularly at the time when Europe is literally convulsing over

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Speaker 1: this issue of unfettered immigration.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'll start with the second half of that comment.

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Speaker 4: I agree with the Pope that chaplain's priest should be

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Speaker 4: allowed in to visit those being held in detention centers

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Speaker 4: by Ice and Border Patrol. The question is though they

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Speaker 4: have to be qualified, they have to be there, knowing

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Speaker 4: who they are, what their reason for being there, because

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Speaker 4: this is a prime time for political activism grant standing.

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Speaker 4: So that's not why chaplain goes in to see people

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Speaker 4: are being detained. On the other part, yes, we do

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Speaker 4: have to greet foreigners and do what we can to

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Speaker 4: help them, but that doesn't mean foreigners have a right

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Speaker 4: to illegally enter the country or overstay their visa. And

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Speaker 4: the fact that they've been here a long time, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's not a good thing because that means the previous

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Speaker 4: governments have been lax and enforcing the law. But when

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Speaker 4: you begin to enforce the law, there's no offense there.

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Speaker 4: And in fact, the government, as we know, is offering

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Speaker 4: people here illegally the chance to voluntarily repatriate to their

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Speaker 4: home countries and then an opportunity to come in legally.

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Speaker 4: So I think the American government is only doing what

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Speaker 4: you know is according to the law and the will

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Speaker 4: of the American people, which is, if you want to

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Speaker 4: be in the United States, you have to be here legally.

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Speaker 1: Bob, your thoughts on this and why has immigration policy

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Speaker 1: been so elevated. I mean, the energy and effort expended

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Speaker 1: on this from Rome and really throughout the church is

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Speaker 1: something remarkable. President Obama, by the way, deported about two

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Speaker 1: million people. I don't remember this kind of organized Catholic

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Speaker 1: resistance if you will, to that policy.

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean, we know the part of the reason

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Speaker 5: is that the media plays at this point because they

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Speaker 5: just they shared a detestation of Donald Trump. They detest

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Speaker 5: him for everything that he absolutely does. I mean, Obama

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Speaker 5: locked up children inside chaining fences, but when Trump did

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Speaker 5: it in his previous administration, this is apparently something new

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Speaker 5: that had never happened on the face of the earth.

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Speaker 5: I've got to say that I don't know entirely why

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Speaker 5: the Church is doing this, clearly, as you say, Raymond,

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Speaker 5: in Europe in particular, because the large majority of those

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Speaker 5: illegals are Muslims, and we're seeing all sorts of cultural classes.

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Speaker 5: It just makes no sense. And I think that when

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Speaker 5: Pope Francis, early in his papacy, went to Lampaduza, which

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Speaker 5: is an Italian i am very close to the coast

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Speaker 5: of Africa, that he thought he was opening up a

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Speaker 5: mode of charity and mercy, but in fact he was

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Speaker 5: opening up a series of problems for people in Europe.

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Speaker 5: Now Here in the United States. Fortunately, for the most part,

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Speaker 5: the people who have come in are either Evangelicals or

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Speaker 5: Christians or Catholics, although there are a lot of criminals

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Speaker 5: that have come in as well. Now I'm going to

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Speaker 5: take a little bit of a perhaps controversial position about this,

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Speaker 5: because I really do think that our government has a

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Speaker 5: moral responsibility. If you've left, let someone live here five

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Speaker 5: or ten year, they put down roots and they have

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Speaker 5: a family and whatnot. I'm not saying that they should

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Speaker 5: automatically be allowed into the country or regularized, but we

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Speaker 5: have allowed our government has allowed this situation to fester,

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Speaker 5: and it's happened for many years. Now we don't have

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Speaker 5: to this day. We don't have proper legislation about illegal immigration.

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Speaker 5: We've got Trump who's been able to shut down the border,

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Speaker 5: and thank god that he did, but our Congress still

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Speaker 5: needs to do, you know, complete ad a thorough look

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Speaker 5: at what our immigration policies should be. But look that said,

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Speaker 5: that's a political debate that has to be If you've

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Speaker 5: been here five years and if ten years or whatever,

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Speaker 5: you haven't been a problem, maybe we can find out

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Speaker 5: some way that you can stay longer, you go back

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Speaker 5: and you come in. But what I want to say

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Speaker 5: is this, I don't see why it is that the

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Speaker 5: church talks about this sort of thing when I think

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Speaker 5: everybody he understands this. Here in America. We understand immigration.

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Speaker 4: We like it.

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Speaker 5: We like legal immigrants, our family or immigrants, yours raiment

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Speaker 5: and yours trying too. Yeah, we all like this, and

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Speaker 5: we all know it contributes to the country. But this

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Speaker 5: illegal there's welcoming of illegals. It just seems to me,

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Speaker 5: it almost sounds like the Church doesn't have anything better

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Speaker 5: to do at this point. I already to say that,

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Speaker 5: but it's like picking a moral question, and I think

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Speaker 5: climate change participates somewhat in that as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to get to that in the moment.

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Speaker 1: But you know, a week when we learned, Father and Bob,

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Speaker 1: that a German festival, that outdoor festival where they had

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Speaker 1: that terrible tragedy those people were killed by Islamic extremists.

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Speaker 1: That Christmas festival canceled this year. The Christmas Lights in Sheffield,

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Speaker 1: England canceled this year. There's a cultural aggression underway that

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Speaker 1: I think the Church, for whatever reason, is unwilling to

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Speaker 1: examine or look at with clear eyes.

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Speaker 4: Father, Well, this is an issue has to do with

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Speaker 4: unassimilated Muslims, Muslim people in Europe who have come primarily

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Speaker 4: for the economic benefits of being in Europe, as opposed

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Speaker 4: to their home countries. They have displayed little intention to

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Speaker 4: integrate and we had you know, just last month, we

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Speaker 4: had a man, an Islamic man with a knife, trying

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Speaker 4: to attack in a synagogue and he had to be

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Speaker 4: neutralized by the police. This is horrendous because there is

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Speaker 4: a hostility to Jews in Europe that has not been

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Speaker 4: seen since the Nazi period. And the only possible reasonable

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Speaker 4: explanation for it is to identify with this influx of

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Speaker 4: Islamic people who don't like Jews and become violent. And

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Speaker 4: this is really a problem. You know, the Jewish soccer

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Speaker 4: team was playing in England and there were all kinds

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Speaker 4: of problems outside the stadium, so you know, we have

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Speaker 4: seen this. And the Israelis were attacked by Hamas on

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Speaker 4: October seven, two years ago. The following weekend there was

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Speaker 4: a huge march in London in support of Hamas. This

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Speaker 4: is unthinkable if there had been a Nazi attack on people,

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Speaker 4: and then the following weekend a million people got in

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Speaker 4: favor of the Nazis. I think the governments would have

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Speaker 4: acted more.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, there seems again an unwillingness if you're

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Speaker 1: worried about religious freedom and the flourishing of religions in countries.

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Speaker 1: You've got to, as a religious leader, focus on this

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Speaker 1: in some way. Pab Leo also said, Bob, I weren't

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Speaker 1: your comments on this. He said, the US military's actions

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Speaker 1: against Venezuela, the Narco terrorists. There, here's the quote. I

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Speaker 1: believe violence never brings victory. The key is to seek dialogue,

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Speaker 1: to find fairways, ways to resolve the problems that may

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Speaker 1: exist within countries.

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Speaker 2: Bob, dialogue with the terrorists.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm sorry to say. That's the kind of language

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Speaker 5: that I think during his period of formation in this

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Speaker 5: seminary and in graduate school, it's the kind of language

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Speaker 5: that people were encouraged to use to begin with. I mean,

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Speaker 5: let's make a Catholic distinction in language. There's a difference

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Speaker 5: between a use of force, which may be just, and violence.

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Speaker 5: I mean, violence is when I stabbed somebody, you know,

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Speaker 5: I want to rob him or whatever, I may to

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Speaker 5: use force to prevent somebody from from robbing another person. So,

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Speaker 5: first of all, he's got to be clear about what

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Speaker 5: that is. Otherwise, we're in a pacifism where everybody's supposed

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Speaker 5: to be, you know, getting along very well with everybody,

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Speaker 5: and that's simply not the case. And look, in the

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Speaker 5: case event asulla, we're dealing with one of those nasty

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Speaker 5: regimes that pops up every now in Latin America. Venezuela

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Speaker 5: used to be a very vibrant, democratic, prosperous country. It

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Speaker 5: has a lot of oil, It was well organized, and

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Speaker 5: it went down the wrong path and went down the

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Speaker 5: wrong path, and in a similar fashion to what Argentina

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Speaker 5: did in the past and Nicaragua and some other countries

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Speaker 5: like this. So like, we're not just talking about a

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Speaker 5: random lashing out with violence. We're looking at trying to

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Speaker 5: prevent some pretty bad actors from harming their own people

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Speaker 5: to begin with, but secondarily the effects that they have

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Speaker 5: when they bring drugs into this country and criminals, etc.

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Speaker 5: So he's partly right if he focuses the language a

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Speaker 5: little bit better. But I don't think that this is

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Speaker 5: a pope who yet has a grip on these kinds

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Speaker 5: of international situations. And I often help whenever I'm criticized

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Speaker 5: by some foreign diplomat, I often say, look, you guys,

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Speaker 5: aren't the ones that have to send in the troops

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Speaker 5: if something goes drastically wrong in a place like Venezuela,

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Speaker 5: we do. We have to send our guys, so we

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Speaker 5: need to deal with things far ahead of their getting

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Speaker 5: into an utterly possible situation.

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Speaker 1: And Father, in this case, you had these narco drug

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Speaker 1: dealers and terrorists coming in and bringing drugs meant to kill,

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Speaker 1: and they do kill swaths of our population. So there

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Speaker 1: is a national security interest here is my question. Is

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Speaker 1: this a little out of the purview and perhaps terroism

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Speaker 1: of the papacy to weigh in on something so granular

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Speaker 1: and encourage dialogue in this situation.

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Speaker 4: No, I think it's proper for the pope to talk

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Speaker 4: about things issues of foreign policy which have a moral

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Speaker 4: aspect to it. And so there's a legitimate debate going on.

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Speaker 4: Are narco terrorists appropriate targets for the military, And that's

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Speaker 4: a good debate to have. But we've already had in

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Speaker 4: the United States because those groups have been deemed to

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Speaker 4: be nonstate actors of hostile to the United States, posing

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Speaker 4: a real threat to it. And these people, by the way,

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Speaker 4: they know what this is happening, so they should stop

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Speaker 4: their activities. They're the ones taking the risk of getting

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Speaker 4: killed by the US military. Let's forget, let's not forget that.

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Speaker 4: But then secondly, the answer to a criminal terrorist organization

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Speaker 4: is not dialogue as regards So that's regards to people

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Speaker 4: selling the drugs. In regards to Maduro government, when have

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Speaker 4: they gotten into a serious dialegue with anybody? The Maduro's

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Speaker 4: an illegitimate president. He wasn't elected. The other person was

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Speaker 4: elected in the last election, but the votes were counted fraudulently,

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Speaker 4: and who got the Nobel priest pies the other candidate,

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Speaker 4: So we should remember he's an illegitimate pres president. He's

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Speaker 4: using narco terrorists to continue to gain money for himself

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Speaker 4: and to put down the United States. So I welcome

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Speaker 4: papal commentary when it's based on the set of facts

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Speaker 4: and the moral equatment. There's no moral equivalency between a

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Speaker 4: military trying to defend the country and terrorists trying to

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Speaker 4: kill people.

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Speaker 1: We all saw the Vatican hosting that climate conference, you

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Speaker 1: know where the Pope was there and the Arnold Schwarzenegger

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Speaker 1: and the famous Iceberg. Now the US Bishop's Conference and

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Speaker 1: other Catholic leaders are offering prayer and support and solidarity

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Speaker 1: for the participants at the thirtieth Annual Nations Climate Change Conference,

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Speaker 1: which begins. On November tenth, Secretary of State Cardinal Powerline

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Speaker 1: delivered an address by the Pope which urged more global

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Speaker 1: action on climate change and said, quote, peace is also

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Speaker 1: threatened by a lack of due respect for creation, by

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Speaker 1: the plundering of natural resources, and by a progressive decline

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Speaker 1: in the quality of life because of climate change. Father,

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Speaker 1: your reaction about the message in this eleven day conference?

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Speaker 1: Is this the most pressing problem in the church right now?

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Speaker 4: It's not a specifically Catholic issue. Climate change. That's a

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Speaker 4: question at first about science, because climate has changed many

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Speaker 4: times over the course of the century. Is it man caused?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 4: Is the genesis of activities that man has undertaken in

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Speaker 4: the last fifty to one hundred years that had never

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Speaker 4: been undertaken before. That's a legitimate area of study. And

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Speaker 4: from what I've seen, Bob knows more about this than I,

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Speaker 4: so I'll see to himity of opinion. But then secondly,

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Speaker 4: the question is what are the priorities that the Holy

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Speaker 4: See is stressing. And basically, in the first six months

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Speaker 4: of the Pontific, we've heard a lot about immigration, and

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Speaker 4: we've heard a lot about climate change, but there are

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Speaker 4: more pressing problems of particularly religious freedom. Now the Pope

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Speaker 4: has spoken about it, so I'm not saying yes, but

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Speaker 4: it's not the headlines being made by the Holy see

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Speaker 4: by and large.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, your thoughts on the optics of these gatherings

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Speaker 1: when people are being thrown out of their parishes, which

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about later, for just wanting to practice their

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Speaker 1: faith and there's such deep confusion about what the church

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Speaker 1: itself teaches, is this the best use of the moral

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Speaker 1: clarity and standing of the Vatican at this moment.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, look, it is good to talk about the

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Speaker 5: care for creation. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

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Speaker 5: As father was saying, it's not even so much that

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Speaker 5: there's I think a debate about climate change. As I'm

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Speaker 5: sorry to say this because I actually started out in

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Speaker 5: the university studying science. I think science has been corruption

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Speaker 5: corrupted to a good degree because of the money that's

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Speaker 5: made available through certain types of studies and not available

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Speaker 5: for other types of studies. I think we're starting to

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Speaker 5: see that a little bit about what's happening in terms

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Speaker 5: of climate change, to use that term. You know. Bill

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Speaker 5: Gates came out the other day and he's been a

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Speaker 5: massive supporter of population control and climate change activity, and

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Speaker 5: he's saying, well, you know, climate change probably isn't going

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Speaker 5: to destroy the human race, and we'll be able to

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Speaker 5: manage it. And I've been hearing this for years. You know,

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Speaker 5: I wrote a book about climate and religion years ago,

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Speaker 5: and I've been hearing for years that mitigation and research

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Speaker 5: really are much more important than these kind of grand

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Speaker 5: standing of these international conferences where people promise that they

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Speaker 5: won't use fossil fuels five years from that, which is

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Speaker 5: not utter impossibility. You know, those sorts of things. When

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Speaker 5: it gets up, it gets to become a kind of

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Speaker 5: a crusade. I think we're in trouble. And look, as

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Speaker 5: father rightly says that there are other things. Elon Musk

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Speaker 5: has stepped forward to quote another billionaire and that he's

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Speaker 5: prominent in the world, saying that our problem now is

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Speaker 5: not population over population, it's demographic collapse around the world.

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Speaker 5: So we have two of the most influential tech savvy

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Speaker 5: people in the world who are kind of contradicting a

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Speaker 5: thing that it has been carried on by the media

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Speaker 5: and the universities in Hollywood and whatnot. And I think

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Speaker 5: we're at a sea change point where people are going

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Speaker 5: to recognize, Look, you know, we need to use the

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Speaker 5: world in order to provide for people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't have used the world.

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Speaker 5: We use it. We try to mitigate any harm we

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Speaker 5: may cause. But that's just part and parcel of being

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Speaker 5: the beings that we are, that God put us on

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Speaker 5: this planet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it just it kind of boggles the mind that

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Speaker 1: so much attention is spent. The Vatican uses so much

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Speaker 1: of its platform to advance this climate change, both science

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Speaker 1: and activism, which, as you said, you see a sea

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Speaker 1: change on a turning in the culture, and among those

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Speaker 1: who have been the most voracious supporters of this. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why the Vatican isn't having that self reflection

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Speaker 1: and at least saying, you know what, maybe we should

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Speaker 1: stick to moral issues right now and really focus on

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Speaker 1: what humans do to destroy each other and the world,

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Speaker 1: rather than worrying about the environment and its natural changes

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Speaker 1: and shifts. But speaking of confusion, the Vatican's Doctrinal Office

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Speaker 1: released a doctrinal note to clarify titles attributed to the

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Speaker 1: Blessed Virgin Mary. This week, Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernandez released

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Speaker 1: this document, Mater popular fidalis which condemns the use of

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Speaker 1: the title coridemptrics for Mary. Now we should say the

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Speaker 1: document was initially prepared under Pope Francis, but it was

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Speaker 1: signed off by Pope Leo with some revisions.

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Speaker 2: Father, why is this needed now?

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Speaker 1: Was there some outcry about Mary is co redemtrics that

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Speaker 1: we didn't hear about.

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Speaker 5: Ah?

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Speaker 4: Well, I'll say I don't think the documents needed now,

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Speaker 4: because I don't think this was a problem. Now, there

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Speaker 4: were two titles of our lady in particular, which were

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Speaker 4: addressed co redemtrics and then Mediatrix of all Graces. Co

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Speaker 4: Redemptrics means that Mary participated in the highest possible way

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Speaker 4: as a human being in the redemption obtained for us

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Speaker 4: by Christ to his God made man. The Church is

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Speaker 4: not saying that Christ is not the redeemer. There's only

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Speaker 4: one redeemer. But as Saint Paul said, I fill up

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Speaker 4: what is lacking in the suffering of Christ. So we

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Speaker 4: participate with Christ. Because remember we're part of the mystical body.

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Speaker 4: We're united to Christ and through grace we cooperate with Christ.

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Speaker 4: So co redemptrics is a cooperator in bringing forward the

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Speaker 4: fruits of the redemption to others. There is no thought

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Speaker 4: that Mary died and then gained grace. That way know,

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Speaker 4: Christ died and gained all graces for us. So that

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Speaker 4: now this has been debated, and this has been going

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Speaker 4: back to the reign of Pius the twelfth and even earlier,

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Speaker 4: and it's a controversial point in some ways, but it

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Speaker 4: was tranquility left to the realm of discussion. Now the

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Speaker 4: other titles Mediatrix of all graces and the mediator, as

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Speaker 4: you know, as someone who brings one thing from one

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Speaker 4: person and gives it to another and then back and forth.

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Speaker 4: And the idea that Mary's the mediatoral grace. The Holy

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Speaker 4: See has embraced that, and so have Pope's over the years,

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Speaker 4: saints and theologians and Benedict the fifteenth authorized a mass

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Speaker 4: in honor of Mediatrix of all Graces for the people

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Speaker 4: of Belgium. So that the idea there is Christ came

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Speaker 4: into the world through Mary, and then Christ goes back

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Speaker 4: to the world through her also, which makes a lot

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Speaker 4: of sense because in the mystical body we talk about

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Speaker 4: the sharing of spiritual gifts. Well, who's the one who's

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Speaker 4: got the most gifts?

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Speaker 5: Mary?

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Speaker 4: So again these are titles that you can embrace. I

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Speaker 4: don't think it was useful for the Vatican to get

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Speaker 4: into this debate now. And I'll just say one last thing,

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Speaker 4: because it's very serious. Cardinal Fernandez said, terms which need

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Speaker 4: constant explaining over the course of time should not be used,

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Speaker 4: because this is an indication they're not useful. Well, if

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Speaker 4: that's the case, we should re examine almost everything he's

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Speaker 4: issued as the head of the Doctor of the Faith

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Speaker 4: because cinidality, we need an explanation every time the word

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Speaker 4: is said, you do just suplicns not We're gonna bless

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Speaker 4: couples but not unions. What does this mean? Divorce and

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Speaker 4: remarry can receive communion ofmortis the TITSI well, wait a minute,

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Speaker 4: what about the teaching of the church that remarriages immortal sin. So,

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Speaker 4: in other words, they should apply their own criteria to

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Speaker 4: what they've done. Then we could have a serious discussion

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Speaker 4: of well, which really conforms to the Gospel and which doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, father jumped the gun a little bit on me, Bob.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna ask you that, Cardinal Fernandez. The excuse

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Speaker 1: here for not using these terms is they could cause confusion. Well,

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Speaker 1: if that's the new barometer of doctrine, sinidality, transubstantiation, celibacy,

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Speaker 1: and his father mentioned, you know, the blessing of these couples.

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Speaker 1: They've got a lot of explaining to do. I love

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Speaker 1: also how Pope Benedict is quoted in this document because

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Speaker 1: apparently he was not in favor of the Codemtrics title.

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Speaker 1: But then he's utterly ignored when he speaks about worship

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Speaker 1: of Jesus in the Latin mass.

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Speaker 5: Bob your reaction, Yeah, I mean this was really a quint.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I leave the technical part of this to

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Speaker 5: the theologians. They can argue this out. But you know,

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Speaker 5: I go back to the point I made about use

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Speaker 5: of force and of use of violence. There used to

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Speaker 5: be a time. I'm old enough. You guys are still

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Speaker 5: young wipersnappers, but I'm old enough to remember when people

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Speaker 5: used to say, at least you Catholics know what you believe.

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Speaker 5: And it's true we did. We had our language that

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Speaker 5: we used. You know, they were verious elements of the

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Speaker 5: just war theory. There are various elements of this and

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Speaker 5: that in the question of Mary. I was thinking about this,

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Speaker 5: but I saw that, you know, the terms when I

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Speaker 5: was growing up, we didn't worry about these terms, which

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Speaker 5: are kind of metaphorical anyway. We always used to talk

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Speaker 5: about there are three types of worship that people you

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Speaker 5: worship God with Latria, that's this Latin term, and then

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Speaker 5: other beings who are worthy of our respect and our attention.

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Speaker 5: They are There's a Latin term Dulia, which is you know,

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Speaker 5: saints and angels and what and Mary is Hyperdulia, so

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Speaker 5: she's between Julia and she's in Latria. But there's no

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Speaker 5: confusion possible there. When you're using terms that people can understand,

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Speaker 5: you can go and look them up any in any book.

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Speaker 5: And instead, what we've been doing more and more is

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Speaker 5: we're kind of promoting the idea that ambiguity and then

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Speaker 5: discussions about things that can seem never to be able

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Speaker 5: to be resolved are the way forward in the church.

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Speaker 5: And we pasted this name sinidelity on it. So look,

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Speaker 5: I like definitions not everything, And I mean, there are

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Speaker 5: mysteries that go beyond what we can define, but we

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Speaker 5: don't need to keep adding unnecessary mysteries that don't really

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Speaker 5: help us. The mystery of the Trinity helps us. They

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Speaker 5: ministry the mystery of the transfiguration helps us in many

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Speaker 5: other mysteries in the church.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Father, any last words on this? Do we need

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Speaker 1: that title co redemtrics? Does it add anything that the

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Speaker 1: church needs? These are the Mary and her relationship to

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Speaker 1: salvation and the Lord himself.

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Speaker 4: Well, Cardinal Ratzinger and the rat Singer report. You remember

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Speaker 4: that break groundbreaking book issued early in podicton Pall the second.

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Speaker 4: He embraced a Latin saying which is nom quam de

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Speaker 4: Maria satis. There's never enough about Maria, which is the

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Speaker 4: attitude of the saints, the praise the knowledge. So if

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Speaker 4: this helps people to understand how how blessed the Virgin

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Speaker 4: Mary is and how connected we are of our salvation,

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Speaker 4: and so be it. Since the Holy See mediatrix of

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Speaker 4: all graces, that's already been approved, it's very disturbing that

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Speaker 4: they would disapprove it. Covidemtrics has been allowed as a term,

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Speaker 4: and you know different saints have used it jump all

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Speaker 4: the second. I believe even could preach homilies on this.

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Speaker 4: So I would say this is this is not a

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Speaker 4: debate stopper. This is going to continue. And why the

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Speaker 4: Holy See when they ignore other things, is issuing documents

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Speaker 4: about Mary and piety. Where is a document, you know,

432
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 4: refuting some of the primary heresies of our time, including

433
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 4: the transgender fraud. We need something of the same seriousness

434
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 4: from the doctrine of the faith to explain to people

435
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 4: that God made male and female and nothing else. That's

436
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 4: what we need.

437
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: A couple of stories brewing in the ongoing liturgy wars

438
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: that I want to bring to everybody's attention.

439
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 2: Okay.

440
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: After banning the traditional Latin Mass and parishes across the

441
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: Diocese of Charlotte, the Bishop Michael Martin is now requesting

442
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: that the Charlotte faithful stop using altar rails in their parishes.

443
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: According to reports from the Charlotte Latin Mass community, the

444
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: bishop made the request at a contentious three hour presbyteral

445
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: meeting of his priests.

446
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 2: Father.

447
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: Canonically, can the bishop forbid the faithful from kneeling at

448
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: an altar rail to receive communion?

449
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 4: I would say technically he could refuse. He could make

450
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 4: a dioscent legislation outlawing altar rails. Now I'm willing to

451
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,239
Speaker 4: defend that, but I could also be wrong on that.

452
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 4: He's not able, though, to forbid the faithful from kneeling

453
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 4: down to receive communion, because that's an option provided for

454
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 4: in the Roman legislation. So it's an active charity to

455
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 4: give people a place to kneel if they have a

456
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 4: right to receive communion that way. So this is a

457
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 4: heavy handed approach, and this is really where things get very,

458
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 4: very upsetting to people. We have liturgical chaos in the

459
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 4: Catholic Church with priests doing all kinds of things. You

460
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 4: and I have seen videos over the years. We've talked

461
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 4: about it. Priest riding bicycles down the main aisle, Priests

462
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 4: throwing rugby balls, kicking soccer balls. We had a priest

463
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 4: dressed up as a rapper recently at a miss Yes, okay,

464
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 4: so what are they trying to stop that? No, all

465
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 4: of that activity seemingly continues. Now, they're trying to stop

466
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 4: people from kneeling down to receive communion. This makes absolutely

467
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 4: no sense. What is the purpose of receiving communion? It's

468
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 4: the bread of eternal life. Why would you get interfered

469
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 4: with someone's piety. They're trying to come closer to God.

470
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: Now, Bob, I mean, look, we say this often, and

471
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: everybody watches this and watch us over the years knows.

472
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: My motto is the practice is as important or more

473
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: important than the state of doctrine, because that's the lived

474
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: doctrine of the people. And if they want to kneel

475
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: and show that sign of reverence to the reality of

476
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: Christ in the Eucharus, why deny them? That these are

477
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: the tactics, and father mentioned heavy handed tactics that you wonder,

478
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: where is the sinidality for these people? Where is the

479
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 1: listening and accompaniment for these people who were just thrown

480
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: out of their parishes. Now they can't even kneel at

481
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: the altar rail for communion any longer.

482
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 5: Well, Look, if you're willing to ban the language of

483
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 5: the mass of the ages to pick up a few fences,

484
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 5: you know, it's kind of a minor I think from

485
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 5: a certain person's understanding, it feels like, you know, a

486
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 5: minor thing, just as it appears that he's ready to

487
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 5: ban all sorts of other things at the altar. Look,

488
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 5: we know what this is. What this is is it's

489
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 5: a kind of a progressive attempt to damp down the

490
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 5: kind of vertical worship that was so prominent in the past,

491
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 5: perhaps even excessively. I mean, I think we can have

492
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 5: a debate about liturgy that would maybe even bring in

493
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 5: that point, but not throw it out entirely. Right, But

494
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 5: there is this, this this vertical dimension of the faith,

495
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 5: and we see in these kind of progressive changes in

496
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 5: liturgy that it's always being attempted to kind of make

497
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 5: it more of a you know, a meeting, to make

498
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 5: it more synotal in that certain sense of everybody's got

499
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 5: to you know, nobody can impose anything on anybody else.

500
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 5: Everybody gets to have a voice and this and they're

501
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 5: doing this even as they're declaring that they're not moving

502
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 5: toward a more democratic churches. This is just a conversation,

503
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 5: so part of that confusion that we just talked about

504
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 5: them a minute ago. You're quite right, it embodies itself

505
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 5: in these little changes that little by little, small as

506
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 5: in a way, you could say it is little by little.

507
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 5: The cumulative effect is intended to play down that vertical

508
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 5: dimension and kind of make us just, you know, all

509
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 5: one on the on the face of the earth. Right,

510
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 5: I'm sorry to put it that way. Maybe it's a

511
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 5: little too simplistic to put it that way, but what

512
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 5: other explanation is there.

513
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: In a related story, it reported earlier this week that

514
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: Bishop Larry Kullick of the Diocese of Greensburg, Pennsylvania, intended

515
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: to ban the oud Orientum Novasorto masses in his diocese.

516
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: Now that means the English masses where the priest is

517
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: facing away from the people to the high altar, so

518
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: they're all facing the same direction. As of Friday, November seventh,

519
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: the Catholic Herald reports that the Diocese of Greenberg is

520
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: not in fact banning those masses of people facing away

521
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: from the people. The Mason Dixon Latins Mass Society first

522
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: reported the news of a ban.

523
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 2: The story went viral.

524
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: According to the diocesan communications director, quote, no, this information

525
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: is not accurate. No directives at the diocesan level have

526
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: been issued on the celebration of the no O Orientum.

527
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: Now here's the question, father, your thoughts on the environment

528
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: that has developed now in the parish communities in the

529
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: United States. I think what we're seeing is they're so

530
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: shell shop this point, in the wake of this assault

531
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: on Catholic tradition that any rumor any report, people kind

532
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: of go crazy.

533
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 2: They worry deeply.

534
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 4: They do worry because there's a trend to restrict rather

535
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 4: than to liberate the forms of liturgical expression that are

536
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 4: traditional in the life of the Church. Now, I'll just

537
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 4: point out the local bishop does not have the power

538
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 4: to ban mass set odd orientum, meaning toward the east,

539
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 4: the liturgical east, meaning that the practice of the church,

540
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 4: the practice of the Orthodox Church, of practice Eastern Catholic churches,

541
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 4: is to face east because the liturgy is an anticipation

542
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 4: and a waiting for the coming of Christ the second time.

543
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 4: Then second coming, the church understands will be from the east,

544
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 4: so that we're looking east because we're looking toward Christ.

545
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 4: So the bishop doesn't have the power to do that. Now,

546
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 4: a number of bishops have done it in their diocese.

547
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 4: This is not allowed. The Roman legislation is clear, the

548
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 4: Congregation for Divine Worship has made this clear and communications

549
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,959
Speaker 4: to various people. Now, but the atmosphere again, you have

550
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 4: to say to yourself, what in the world is the

551
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 4: genesis or origin of all of this. And I think

552
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 4: part of it is a fear that people who like

553
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 4: to worship in the traditional form are going to reject

554
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 4: everything that's happened in the church since the Second Vating Council.

555
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 4: I think that's an unfounded fear. They are unhappy with

556
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 4: certain liturgical aberrations, and they're happy with the restore restoration

557
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 4: of tradition. But that doesn't mean these people have to

558
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 4: be treated as if they're attacking the church and the

559
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 4: second Vating Council. That's not the case. I'd be interested with.

560
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 4: Bob thinks about.

561
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 5: That, Yeah, And I think to go back to some

562
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 5: of the things we were talking about earlier. If we're

563
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 5: really in a church that needs to recover a sense

564
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 5: of the sacred, to refocus on some of these fundamental

565
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 5: moral questions that you raised earlier, reigned, and particularly if

566
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 5: you want to engage the environmental questions, why not use

567
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 5: the you know, the astronomical elements that exist. I mean

568
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 5: to look towards the sun. I mean, we're not worshiping

569
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 5: the sun the way some worshipers would, but we are

570
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,959
Speaker 5: connecting ourselves with it, with the nature of God's world,

571
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 5: the way that the stars and the planets and the

572
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 5: moon and the sun move around us. And during the

573
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 5: Middle Ages and or the Early Church, you know, there

574
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 5: were allegories about animals and about other than sisters, not

575
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 5: worshiping creation. It was drawing out meaning from creation, and

576
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 5: that's what really attaches you again, It isn't just kind

577
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 5: of an abstract scientific determination that you can only allow

578
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 5: so much CO two to go up into the air. Now,

579
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 5: You're right, care about the world first. Just like you

580
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 5: have to care about other people to demonstrate charity, you

581
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 5: have to care about people in the womb to understand

582
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 5: the fragility of the human race. If we don't reproduce ourselves,

583
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 5: there's no future for us.

584
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Bob, that's such a great point.

585
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 5: I think there's just a depth here. And I think

586
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 5: Father is right, and as are U Raymond. That on

587
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 5: one hand, some people are just terrified of any change

588
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 5: now because they just fear that they feel like a

589
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 5: locomotive is coming down the tracks and they're losing everything.

590
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 5: But I think that that's wrong. I think that we

591
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 5: need to be a little bit more flexible. But let's

592
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 5: engage those tools that have existed in the tradition for

593
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 5: years that help us embody, you know, in the way

594
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 5: that we are, postures, the way we face, the way

595
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 5: we talk to one another. Those things too add a

596
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 5: tremendous amount. And our bishops, a lot of our bishops

597
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 5: in the United States know this, by the way, So yeah,

598
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,959
Speaker 5: we've got a debate going on, but I think that

599
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 5: those positive elements need to be underscored because we continue

600
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 5: to lose something and we're fighting over things that are

601
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 5: trivial by comparison.

602
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point though, about the the orientation

603
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: of facing east. It's where the sun rises, it's the

604
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: way God made our planet move. All of that is

605
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: tied together, and it's a pity that they miss the

606
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: moral and practical implications of the reverence for tradition and creation,

607
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: that's all one. But they miss that we run to

608
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: un conferences and accept, you know, debated science and dubious

609
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: solutions that now even Bill Gates says, maybe we don't

610
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 1: need to go down this path. On a story we've

611
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: been covering now for years, the Vatican Trial of disgrace es,

612
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: just what Marco Rupnik is finally getting underway? The Pope

613
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: was asked by WTN News at that press gaggle we

614
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier about Rupnik and the case against him.

615
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 3: Certainly in many places, precisely because of the need to

616
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 3: be sensitive to those who have presented cases of being victims,

617
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 3: the artwork has been covered up, has been removed from websites,

618
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 3: so that issue is certainly something that we're aware of.

619
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 3: A new trial has recently begun, judges were appointed, and

620
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 3: processes for justice take a long time, and I know

621
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 3: it's very difficult for the victims to ask that they

622
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 3: be patient, but the Church needs to respect the rights

623
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 3: of all people. The principle of innocent proving guilty is

624
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 3: also true in the Church, and hopefully this trial that

625
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 3: is just beginning will be able to give some clarity

626
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 3: and justice to all those involved.

627
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: Father, what do you make of the Pope's request for

628
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: Rupnik's victims to be patient and his take on the

629
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 1: art saga and whether it should continue to hang in

630
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: church installations.

631
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, they've already been patient. I'm sure the Holy

632
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 4: Father is aware of that. When the Vatican promise to

633
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 4: you know, when they lift the immunity that Rupnik had

634
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 4: for prosecution, and it took almost two years, at least

635
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 4: a year year and a half for the judges to

636
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 4: be named and then another half year for the judges

637
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 4: to convene. So there has been but once the trial's convened,

638
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 4: there should be an orderly process that doesn't take months

639
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,439
Speaker 4: and months and months. Now, again, we don't know what's

640
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 4: going to happen in the trial. And this is really

641
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 4: a problem you could say about Vatican jurisprudence and the

642
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 4: way they operate. If you announce that you are going

643
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 4: to have a trial, why didn't they announce the start

644
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 4: date of the trial. Why didn't they tell us who

645
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 4: the judges are? Why didn't they produce a press staven

646
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 4: saying these are the following charges, and then you know,

647
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 4: go from there. Vatican justice is not up to modern

648
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 4: standards of public justice, the administration of trials and investigations

649
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 4: and all the rest. And you know, the victims said

650
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 4: to say, they're kind of like spectators on this because

651
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 4: the accusation is being made by a Vatican process secutor

652
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 4: against this man. So the Vatican is prosecuting on behalf

653
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,720
Speaker 4: of the people. So I hope, I hope. For instance,

654
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 4: let's hope every victim who wants to testify is given

655
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 4: the opportunity to do so, and it is also allowed

656
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 4: to make their testimony known to the wider public, because

657
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 4: this is a matter of public interest. We already have

658
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 4: through the media, and let's forget face it, without media pressure,

659
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 4: none of this would have happened. The victims went to

660
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 4: the media, and they gave tremendously personal and tragic stories

661
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 4: of what they claim. I think, truly Rupnik did. It's

662
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 4: now time to resolve this and not simply. The Macarac

663
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 4: trial was a perfect example. That was an administrative process.

664
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 4: They issued like a two or three sentence at the end,

665
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 4: and he was thrown out of the priesthood. There was

666
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 4: no accounting for anything that he did in the public sphere,

667
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 4: and that was I think not in line with the

668
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 4: way modern justice systems work, Bob.

669
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: So let's talk for a moment about the art itself. Look,

670
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of kind of tone deaf behavior

671
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: I think from the Vatican rupe Nick art itself, now

672
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: the pope reference there. What I think is the removal

673
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: of the art from the Vatican website.

674
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: We'll see if that proves true.

675
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: Is there any credibility in the eyes of the victims

676
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: at this point, not just a group Nick's art, but

677
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: the ongoing presence of it in these churches.

678
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: Should it be taken down? Do you think?

679
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 5: Well, let me start with from a slightly different point,

680
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 5: as I understand that he is still a priest in

681
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 5: good standing. Yeah right, I mean, so he's still operating,

682
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 5: which is for us in America. It's astonishing because when

683
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 5: a priest is accused here and there seems to be

684
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 5: some credible evidence, he's out, and then the process goes forward.

685
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 5: So already we're starting from a position that is pretty strange,

686
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 5: and then this artwork stays up and there seems to

687
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 5: be there seem to be elements within the Vatican Press

688
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 5: Office and some of the public relations offices that deliberately

689
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 5: include some of his art and continue to do this

690
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 5: in things that they're publishing. So I begin with that

691
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 5: that to me, that is very odd, and I don't

692
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 5: know why a man like this would still be be protected.

693
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 5: He should be I don't know if he should be

694
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 5: sent away or whatever the process should be, but he

695
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 5: should not be doing those two things. Now in terms

696
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 5: of art, you know pretty much. I don't like censoring

697
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 5: art after the fact. I mean, Carravaggio was a terrible man, murderer.

698
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 5: There have been other artists who were less than saints,

699
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 5: but their art was good. Rythnik presents a strange case

700
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 5: because there was sacrileges.

701
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 2: Involved, right and with the art itself.

702
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 5: Bob abuses of the sacrament at the altar of confession.

703
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 5: So just if you're a serious Catholic er takes seriously

704
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 5: the theology of the sacraments, there's that element that's thrown

705
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 5: on top of it. So all this, to me, it

706
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 5: just militates against that stuff continuing. I don't like censoring art,

707
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 5: but I think in this case, the violations were so

708
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 5: awful and involved sacred objects and sacred matters that you

709
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 5: simply can't leave them around and continue to think of

710
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 5: yourself as a serious Christian church. Yeah.

711
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: Father, I don't even want to get into the details

712
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: because they're so diabolical, frankly, but I mean when you're

713
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: putting human fluids and mixing them in paint and using

714
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: them in the mosaics in your art, there's something profoundly

715
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: disordered in all of that and wicked, and I think

716
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: that has to be part of the consideration as to

717
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: whether this should still hang in these churches and institutions

718
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: all over the United States, the world, even in the Vatican.

719
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

720
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 4: I mean, let's by analogy, if he has committed, if any,

721
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 4: acues of committing other types of crimes rather than sexual

722
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 4: abuse of nuns, which is the main accusation. Vatican had

723
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 4: been so passive on this. Let's say he had let's

724
00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 4: say he had taken to gun and tried to shoot

725
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 4: Pope Francis. Would any of his art be allowed to

726
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 4: stay anywhere? Of course not, because it would have been recognized.

727
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 2: This is a.

728
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 4: Malicious man who did evil. We should have nothing to

729
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 4: do with his artwork. On the other hand, he's reliably

730
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 4: accused of sex abuse. He's thrown out of the Jesuits,

731
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 4: he had been excommunicated by the Vatican because he gave

732
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 4: absolution to one of the people that he raped or

733
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 4: sexually abused. So he's already approven by his record to

734
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 4: have been found guilty of crime. And yet we're waiting,

735
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 4: we're tiptoeing around saying we got to keep his art

736
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 4: because we don't want to. No, no, no, we don't

737
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 4: do this. We have to be serious. Is the purpose

738
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 4: of a church to give an art is an opportunity

739
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,959
Speaker 4: to display his work? Of course not. Is the house

740
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 4: of God?

741
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the work should draw you to worship of God.

742
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 1: And with all of the competing agendas and material in

743
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: that particular art, I agree with you. I think it's

744
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: a particular case where you have to say cover it

745
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: up or move it out.

746
00:41:58,360 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 2: Jence.

747
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: The German sonatal way rolls on as we report it

748
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: and continue to report. The Italian Church seem seems to

749
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: have caught sonatyl fever. It's embracing the recognition of gender

750
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: ideology and homosexuality. For example, uh Pope Leo, since his election,

751
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: has repeatedly affirmed sinnidality and following in the footsteps of

752
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: Pope Francis, America magazine has just published a piece, an

753
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: article called sinnidality fatigue. What's their cure? Just get good

754
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 1: at it?

755
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 6: They suggest, Bob, your reaction to this idea that the reason,

756
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 6: the way to cure sinnidality fatigue is get more sonodyl

757
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 6: whatever that means.

758
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 5: Yeah, And of course that's just the problem. We've been

759
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 5: saying this for the last ten years. And the answers

760
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 5: you get from people is, well, it's a process and

761
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 5: as it goes along, you know, we'll define what it

762
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 5: is as we go along. But yet it's it's the

763
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 5: most urgent thing that I ought to be had everywhere

764
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 5: around the world in the church. Look, you can say

765
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 5: conversations are good, but I have to say, when I

766
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 5: looked at the pictures that accompanied that article in America Magazine.

767
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 5: It reminded me of some of these sad you know,

768
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 5: confessional circles that you used to see back in the

769
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 5: sixties when people thought that they were letting it all

770
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 5: hang out and they were being honest with one another.

771
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 5: I mean, it almost looks more like an AA meeting

772
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 5: than it is something about, you know, putting together a

773
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 5: way of understanding the church and doing better Evangelisa. So

774
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 5: you know, all that's just indicates that it is. For

775
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 5: all the talk about how well it's doing is breaking

776
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 5: out all over the world.

777
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: It's in crisis, right, Yeah, it's in crisis. And as

778
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: you said, it looks like a sterile gathering. I would

779
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: argue AA meetings have far more impacted there are far

780
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: more impactful and positive than anything coming out of this

781
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: sonodyl Way and Father, I guess the solution is keep

782
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: doing the Sonadyl shop. Are we any closer to what

783
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: a real understanding is or definition of sinidality?

784
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 2: Do we actually know what it is?

785
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 4: Well, we know what real cinidality is because it was

786
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 4: given to us by the Second Vatican Council and Pope Paul.

787
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 4: The six Cinidality is a meeting of bishops to consider

788
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 4: matters of importance in the life of the Church and

789
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 4: provide advice to the Roman pontiff. That's what cinidality is.

790
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 4: Those that the bishops seek as experts can be anybody,

791
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 4: but only the bishops are involved in sinods. Pope Francis

792
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 4: changed that and then made it, you know, a process

793
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 4: such that you know. The message of this article is,

794
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 4: if you're tired of having been on the treadmill for

795
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 4: three years, just get used to it and keep going

796
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 4: for as many more years as is necessary. This is ridiculous,

797
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 4: and I should also throw this in they when the

798
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 4: people who like sinidality admit that people are tired of it,

799
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 4: it's not a good sign that they have confidence that

800
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 4: this thing is doing its job. And you can't do

801
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,439
Speaker 4: its job, because what sinidality means is whatever they tell

802
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 4: us from the Vatican. It means when they issue their

803
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 4: next document, and of course, as you may know, they

804
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 4: canceled in advanced the next Senate. It's going to be

805
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 4: replaced by an ecclesial assembly in which we're told that

806
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 4: it'll be at least fifty percent non bishop's present. So

807
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,399
Speaker 4: even the Senate is not synadel enough. Even after all

808
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,439
Speaker 4: the changes. This is a perfect formula for an academic

809
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 4: type revolution where the faculty gets rid of the president

810
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 4: and says, Okay, tomorrow the next decree, we'll tell the

811
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 4: students what we're going to teach them. But by the way,

812
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 4: it could change next week.

813
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

814
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: No, it's all very confusing, and the reality is it

815
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: never caught the zeitgeist in the church at large. Let's

816
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: face it, you go to a local parish, you go

817
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: to your parish or my parish or Bob's parish. Nobody's

818
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: talking about cinidality or wanting to be more sonoontylal.

819
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 2: They don't even know what this means.

820
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 1: A Catholic philosopher Ed Fesser wrote something this week that

821
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: speaks a bit to this sonatal question and the idea

822
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: that some are waiting for another pope to undo the

823
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: rigid traditions of the past.

824
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 2: He says, the thesis.

825
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: That a pope can contradict what has always been understood

826
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: to be the consistent teaching of scripture and tradition is not,

827
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: and never has been, the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

828
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: It is a diabolical distortion of the magisterium into Orwell's

829
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: Ministry of Truth, Bob your reaction. He underlines the example

830
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: of the death penalty, that a good Catholic can oppose

831
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: it in practice, but that it can never be intrinsically evil,

832
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: because that would contradict scripture and tradition. Doctors of the Church,

833
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: two thousand years of papal teaching your thoughts, Bob, Yeah.

834
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 5: Ed Fezer is a very very fine philosopher. He's a

835
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 5: very careful thinker. He's very loyal to the tradition. He

836
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,720
Speaker 5: knows the tradition. So when he speaks about these things,

837
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 5: he isn't used speaking off the top of his head

838
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 5: the kind of thing that he would like to be true.

839
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 5: He's in the very center of the tradition. I read

840
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 5: his book. I think I even endorsed it when he

841
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,280
Speaker 5: came out and he quotes from Avery Dulles, the Jesuit

842
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 5: Theologian was made a cardinal about John Paul Second, and

843
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 5: Dulles pointed out that if let's say, Hope Raymond Royo

844
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 5: today contradicts Pope Robert Royal of yesterday, well, everybody can

845
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 5: look at that and say, oh, yeah, that was great,

846
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 5: that was a great change that he made. But that

847
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 5: introduces the principle that any pope can overthrow the teaching

848
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 5: of his predecessor. And so, yeah, you're writing high today, Raymond,

849
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 5: you're the boss. You're on Royal Grande. But the next

850
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 5: guy comes along and he contradicts you, and now we're

851
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 5: off to the races. There is no stable doctrine, there's

852
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 5: no stable truth that exists within the church. And it's

853
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 5: not just over the death penalty. It has ramifications for

854
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 5: all the doctrinal and moral teachings.

855
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 2: Of the church. Yeah, it undermines and weakens the whole foundation. Father,

856
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 2: you want to say anything on.

857
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,760
Speaker 4: That, Yeah, no, this is absolutely true. We send people

858
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,240
Speaker 4: to seminary to train to be priests. And the first

859
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 4: lesson is not the Catholic faith consists of whatever the

860
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 4: pope tells us today.

861
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 2: It means no.

862
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 4: The Catholic faith consists of the memorial teaching based on

863
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 4: the scriptures and the tradition of the Church, which has

864
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 4: been enunciated over the course of the centuries in councils,

865
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 4: in theologians of good repute, and orthodoxy. In other words,

866
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 4: there's a whole body of teaching. Bob wrote a great

867
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 4: book about the twentieth century theological tradition and what was

868
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 4: that based on the nineteenth centuries that came before it.

869
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 4: It wasn't based on the fact that a pope woke

870
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 4: up and said, well, today we're going to take five

871
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 4: out of ten of teachings and then five are no

872
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 4: longer applicable. No, this is a say it's unfortunately, it's

873
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 4: the politicization of the papacy and religion where the thought is,

874
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 4: just like a new president has a new set of priorities,

875
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 4: is you know platform a new pope can do that?

876
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 4: He can't, He cannot do that. And this is why

877
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,439
Speaker 4: we've said this. I've said this before, we've said it here.

878
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 4: We can't sit by and say what Pope Francis did

879
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 4: about divorce and remarried, communion, blessing of homosexual couples, and

880
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 4: capital punishment. This is now definitive Catholic teaching that cannot

881
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 4: be contradicted. No, these were innovations which contradicted what previous

882
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 4: popes taught. These have to be cast aside if we're

883
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 4: going to be consistent, because otherwise everything's subject to question.

884
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 4: And there are some people who want that in the church.

885
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 4: We know that, so we have to fight that that's

886
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:42,760
Speaker 4: the good fight of faith.

887
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bad trend.

888
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: It's a bad idea because you do undermine and weaken

889
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: everything that preceded you. And then, as Bob was saying earlier,

890
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: Catholics were always regarded as knowing what they believe. Well,

891
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,439
Speaker 1: then everything's up for grabs, and that's a very bad

892
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: place to be. I want to ask her before we go, Well,

893
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 1: there is a new document on monogamy that the Doctrinal

894
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: Office of the Vatican is allegedly working on to be

895
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: released soon. Bob, your thoughts on this and why do

896
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,240
Speaker 1: you think this is coming now?

897
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 5: Oh? I could have some thoughts that I'd rather not

898
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 5: express about this. They're little dark and perhaps a little cynical. Okay,

899
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 5: you know, we all kind of thought that monogamy was

900
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:30,919
Speaker 5: a pretty much settled in, perfectly clear concept. Yeah, and

901
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 5: we'll see what. We'll see what. We'll see what it

902
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 5: is when they get through it, We're going to have

903
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 5: more questions than.

904
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 4: I'm wondering if this is going to be a document

905
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 4: on polygamy. And the reason I wonder about it because

906
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 4: in the Senate some African bishops said that the sentinel

907
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 4: concern has to be you know, finding a place for

908
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 4: polygamous people in the church, and that reminds me that

909
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 4: we're still waiting for the tense study groups, you know,

910
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 4: the tense particular study groups and for controversial questions, and

911
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 4: polygamy was one of them. So I don't know if

912
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 4: this is going to be related to those study group teachings.

913
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 4: And by the way, if it's still understudy, why is

914
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 4: the Vatican in isitiing teachings and not waiting for the

915
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 4: Cenindal process to accomplish itself. But the real story here

916
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 4: is monogamy is threatened by all those sexual licensed practices

917
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 4: in the modern world, including so called same sex marriage.

918
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 4: So hopefully the document monogamy is going to be rejection

919
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 4: of pseudo marriages, which are these blessings of homosexual couples

920
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 4: who already civilly married and view the blessing as a

921
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 4: confirmation by the Church that they are in fact married.

922
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 4: That's the reality on the ground. If they don't deal

923
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 4: with that, then this is just going to be further confusion.

924
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 2: Posse.

925
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: We could go on for an hour more, but I'm

926
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 1: going to let you all rest for now. Grateful to

927
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: you for always as always, and if you want more

928
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 1: of the oil Grande prayerful Posse, subscribe to the Arroyo

929
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 1: Grande Show on YouTube or the Arroyo Grande Podcast wherever

930
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: you get yours on behalf of Robert Royal, Father Gerald Murray.

931
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 1: Until the Posse rides again, stay the course and follow

932
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: the light.

933
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 2: I'm Raymond Arroyo. We'll see you next time.

934
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and

935
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: DP Studios, and is available on the iHeartRadio, Apple wherever

936
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts