Speaker 1: The Craig Ferguson Pants on Fire Tour is on sale now.
Speaker 1: It's a new show, it's new material, but I'm afraid
Speaker 1: it's still only me, Craig Ferguson on my own, standing
Speaker 1: on a stage telling comedy words. Come and see me,
Speaker 1: buy tickets, bring your loved ones, or don't come and
Speaker 1: see me. Don't buy tickets and don't bring your loved ones.
Speaker 1: I'm not your dad. You come or don't come, but
Speaker 1: you should at least know what's happening, and it is.
Speaker 1: The tour kicks off late September and goes through the
Speaker 1: end of the year and beyond. Tickets are available at
Speaker 1: the Craig Ferguson Show dot com slash tour. They are
Speaker 1: available at the Craig Ferguson show dot com slash tour
Speaker 1: or at your local outlet in your region. My name
Speaker 1: is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy.
Speaker 1: I talk to interest in people about what brings them happiness.
Speaker 1: Every now and again you get to talk to a
Speaker 1: genuine icon and a genuine genius, an absolute game changer
Speaker 1: of a human being and artist.
Speaker 2: Today is one of those days. Robert Smigel is here.
Speaker 1: When I was like the mission post read they take
Speaker 1: the mask.
Speaker 2: Of a face off with Nicholas Cage, and.
Speaker 1: I loved that movie, The Nicholas Cage movie. That second
Speaker 1: in my Nicholas Cage movies.
Speaker 2: Ghost Writer, I haven't seen that. What the fuck? I know?
Speaker 2: I know and I hear. The one about the guy
Speaker 2: who's in everyone's dreams is amazing. Just came out like
Speaker 2: a year. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Have you seen witch Finder, the one he did with
Speaker 1: Royland Farman?
Speaker 2: No, I haven't seen that either. A Vampire's Kiss? Have
Speaker 2: you seen that? At least so funny from the early nineties.
Speaker 1: Peak Nicholas Cage time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just screaming the entire movie, but i'd see.
Speaker 1: My feeling is he's never made a bad movie. I
Speaker 1: haven't seen them all.
Speaker 2: I haven't either, But it's a theory and it doesn't
Speaker 2: need to be proved. But I feel like ghost Writer.
Speaker 1: Ghostwriter actually started me on the past to Jeff Peterson,
Speaker 1: which was my counterweight to Triumph.
Speaker 2: Yes, and yeah, he's more Andy, He's just Andy and
Speaker 2: he was No. I do want to talk about your
Speaker 2: show because I really loved and I'll tell you part
Speaker 2: of why it was because so I was the original
Speaker 2: whatever they call him, producer on The Conan Show, and I,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm very proud of everything we did with
Speaker 2: a lot of crazy. Yeah, the Letterman really changed it,
Speaker 2: and then we modified it and you continued to but
Speaker 2: I mean, but I'm very proud of it. It's best
Speaker 2: job I ever had. Love Cone and he's amazing, but
Speaker 2: legend he had never been on television before, and so
Speaker 2: it was never quite as crazy as I envisioned it
Speaker 2: when we started. I wanted it to feel completely unpredictable
Speaker 2: all the way through the hour, and like the if
Speaker 2: you ever watched the first Conan Show, you'll see hints
Speaker 2: of that where we you know, Conan would say stuff
Speaker 2: like John Goodman's coming up, but first we'll be right
Speaker 2: back after this special effects technician, and then we would
Speaker 2: cut to like this bearded you know, redheaded bearded guy
Speaker 2: in glasses and just dancing like this to you know,
Speaker 2: I can't remember what the song was, but just dancing
Speaker 2: for like fifteen seconds, and then Conan would just say
Speaker 2: we're back, and we would do that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: But Conan had never been on television, and Conan was
Speaker 2: like a young ambitious writer performer and this was his
Speaker 2: dream and he didn't. He gave a lot of shits,
Speaker 2: many many shits, right, and when you're that young, combining
Speaker 2: that with inexperience made it very rocky for him. And
Speaker 2: we pared down the show that kind of craziness. Like
Speaker 2: we even had people interrupt interviews sometimes, Like we had
Speaker 2: a character called Doug the neighbor who would like there'd
Speaker 2: be a hedge in the back of the studio and
Speaker 2: he'd just like, hey, Conzy, and who are you talking to?
Speaker 2: And he's like gore Vidal, who who Like he was
Speaker 2: just like a bad sitcom neighbor And it was funny conceptually,
Speaker 2: but Conan did not have the confidence to own it.
Speaker 1: And also, given a shit is going to get in
Speaker 1: your way?
Speaker 2: I know, But he was a young guy. He's like
Speaker 2: thirty years old. This is a big shot you. When
Speaker 2: I watched you, I felt like I was watching someone
Speaker 2: unlike any other host in that it felt like. And
Speaker 2: then I read about you and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: this makes sense. He's just gone through so much and
Speaker 2: then this thing fall in his lap and he's like whatever.
Speaker 2: That's how it felt to me.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what it was. But the thing was I
Speaker 1: kind of I feel a little weird about it, even
Speaker 1: to this day because when I ended up in late
Speaker 1: night and I to me getting into late night, and
Speaker 1: I've said this before, was kind of like getting a
Speaker 1: job as a realtor. Like, no one really wants a
Speaker 1: job as a realtor. You don't start out in life
Speaker 1: thinking I'm going to be a realtor. No, but you know,
Speaker 1: shit goes wrong. Yeah, maybe your father's Walter, but my
Speaker 1: father was his father before. Yeah, but none of that
Speaker 1: was in my life. My father wasn't even American. So
Speaker 1: the the idea of doing a show like this, I
Speaker 1: was like, fuck, sure, fine, whatever, and that really wants
Speaker 1: to And my early show is I tried to hold
Speaker 1: it together and be a late like I would walk
Speaker 1: out like you see. The first couple of weeks, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm fiddling with my time saying you guys watched the
Speaker 1: playoffs and I'm reading it.
Speaker 2: And I couldn't do it right until you're just like it.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: It was a little bit by little bit, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: because you know what it's like you every night, every night,
Speaker 1: every time.
Speaker 2: I watch a new late night show, I see ambitious
Speaker 2: things and I'm like, Okay, they're going to lose that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: in about six weeks they dropped. Like Jimmy Kimmel had
Speaker 2: a co host every week every year. Yeah, like Rasi
Speaker 2: O'Donnell used to read letters from I don't know, there
Speaker 2: were everybody had gimmicks. We had. Conan didn't do a
Speaker 2: monologue at the beginning, He didn't do a topical model
Speaker 2: are hard I know, well, they're always the worst part
Speaker 2: of the ship.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was like, you're not doing a topical monologue.
Speaker 2: You're too funny. You're just gonna talk about shit. And
Speaker 2: then by the second week, I realized he's got nothing
Speaker 2: to talk about anymore because his whole life, he's pouring
Speaker 2: everything into this show. So be like, hey, folks, oh man,
Speaker 2: last night I rolled in at eleven thirty at night
Speaker 2: and I cried myself to sleep in bed.
Speaker 1: But anyway, but it's but it's a funny thing because
Speaker 1: because of the relentless nature of it. Once, I think,
Speaker 1: once you get past the idea of trying to be
Speaker 1: good at it, because I wanted to be good at it,
Speaker 1: and then I was like, I just want to I
Speaker 1: just want to stay on the air now.
Speaker 2: I just I just want to stay on the air.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: And then after about a couple of months, I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't even care if I stay on the air.
Speaker 1: Fuck these people. Nobody knows what they're talking about. Everybody's
Speaker 1: a fucking liar, that the network are crazy, the publicists
Speaker 1: are manipulative and evil, the stars are weird and shut down.
Speaker 1: And then I thought, well, I don't. About six months
Speaker 1: into doing Late Night, I don't think I've even told
Speaker 1: anybody this, but six months in I had my past.
Speaker 1: I wasn't an American citizen at the time. I used
Speaker 1: to have my passport in my pocket. On stage, I
Speaker 1: had my passport in my pocket. Is like, shit goes
Speaker 1: fucking tits up.
Speaker 2: I am out of here.
Speaker 1: I'm going to the airport and get the fuck. I'll
Speaker 1: go anywhere. I'll go anywhere on the earth.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. But I do were enjoying the show itself,
Speaker 2: was loving the show, but I knew I did have
Speaker 2: this chip on your shoulder from all these non believing people.
Speaker 1: Right, And I also I believed that anything that I
Speaker 1: loved as much I wasn't going to get to keep,
Speaker 1: which is you know, and because it belonged to someone else.
Speaker 1: Eventually I found the antidote to it was this was
Speaker 1: going out and performing stand up again, which I had
Speaker 1: done when I was younger performer, but going out and
Speaker 1: going back to doing stand up in theaters or in
Speaker 1: comedy clubs, because then I felt a sense of autonomy,
Speaker 1: because I knew that CBS or show business would cut
Speaker 1: my throat and dump me in the East.
Speaker 2: River whenever they felt like it.
Speaker 1: Right, But if I had something else that belonged only
Speaker 1: to me, like then I'd be all right.
Speaker 2: So that that was like you, you kind of built
Speaker 2: on your audience from the show to you stand up
Speaker 2: in America, and then you were like, well, fuck them.
Speaker 2: If I get canceled, I still I'm gonna have. I've
Speaker 2: built a career now right in the States and I
Speaker 2: still do that. And He'll be in Albany. Yeah probably.
Speaker 2: Well actually, but the I heard you, But I look.
Speaker 1: I used to look at Conan in particular, because I
Speaker 1: loved Cornan, and I loved doing corner shows and and
Speaker 1: and to the the nearest thing to what I wanted
Speaker 1: to do was was early Dave or Conan. That's that was,
Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to do. That's whatever vibe that
Speaker 1: was I wanted, and what you were doing with Triumph
Speaker 1: or with TV Funhouse, the vibe of all of that
Speaker 1: mad ship, that that ramshackle fucking crazy.
Speaker 2: I wanted a piece of that.
Speaker 1: But when I looked to all of you guys, your
Speaker 1: fucking Newisha there, you know you, and I was, I
Speaker 1: felt so jealous and outside because even in late night,
Speaker 1: you know, guys had gone to you know, Emerson or
Speaker 1: Cornell or you know or or or in.
Speaker 2: My or Harvard or yet I was. I considered myself
Speaker 2: a diversity hire by going to Cornell, but.
Speaker 1: I was so jealous of that. No, I didn't I
Speaker 1: didn't wish any harm or I just I wished to
Speaker 1: be part of it, but did totally get it to
Speaker 1: be part of it, And I felt.
Speaker 2: No, And I'm sure you felt like I mean, to
Speaker 2: be perfectly honest, I don't think a lot of those
Speaker 2: people got you. No, I don't know. And I would
Speaker 2: watch the show and I would be like, everybody's just
Speaker 2: a fucking snob about this guy. Yeah, because he's from
Speaker 2: Scotland and he doesn't have the exact same dry Yeah, Fridge,
Speaker 2: I didn't have it. No, I know but you had
Speaker 2: your own thing, and you were naturally funny. Your interviews
Speaker 2: were amazing. But what hit me the most was you
Speaker 2: had a fucking skeleton robot or a sidekick. You had
Speaker 2: a horse, a shitty horse costume that you would come
Speaker 2: out and you wouldn't make any big deal out of it,
Speaker 2: because if you treated it like it was perfectly normal,
Speaker 2: which was that was my dream to be that insane.
Speaker 2: We never did out on the show because it was
Speaker 2: just too it was just not the right time in
Speaker 2: Conan's career. Now, Conan, it's so funny, like he's very well.
Speaker 2: The podcast is like an amazing vehicle for you. And
Speaker 2: and uh, that was always like the white whale, like
Speaker 2: because we knew he's he's been that way since he
Speaker 2: was three to five. We've always wanted to get that guy,
Speaker 2: even though he was really funny and great on his show.
Speaker 2: Always knew there was that guy. And then when he
Speaker 2: did the Hot Ones thing with you know that, yeah,
Speaker 2: and he was out of his mind. I just talked
Speaker 2: to him about it the other day because now I'm
Speaker 2: just talking about Conan. Sorry, but that's so he he wants.
Speaker 2: So when we were just starting the show, he was
Speaker 2: going to be on Letterman, and he had this fantasy
Speaker 2: in his head. He said, what if I what if
Speaker 2: I'm on Letterman and it's my first time on and
Speaker 2: I'm just telling an anecdote and then my face freezes
Speaker 2: in a weird position, you know. So he's just like,
Speaker 2: so anyway, I'm making a right and uh just then
Speaker 2: the light and then I just don't change. I just
Speaker 2: commit to that face and Letterman doesn't know what to do,
Speaker 2: and I just do this like I'm stuck and I
Speaker 2: never give in. It would have been the funniest thing
Speaker 2: I ever seen stones to do. He was like, there's
Speaker 2: no way I can do this. I can get away
Speaker 2: with it. But then when he did the Hot Ones,
Speaker 2: that was basically the equivalent of that level of craziness.
Speaker 2: And it was so funny to know that, Like people
Speaker 2: see it and they're like, wow, Conan's really what He's
Speaker 2: really changed. He's so out there now and Conan and
Speaker 2: I know that he's just always it's always been that guy,
Speaker 2: but he's just nobody could handle it back then. You
Speaker 2: I think I was.
Speaker 1: I was lucky because of David Lariman though, because what
Speaker 1: happened was during the late night Wars of l and
Speaker 1: Laraman after Johning was yes, I've talked about this a
Speaker 1: million times, I guess podcast. But but basically CBS and
Speaker 1: the desire again larim and gave him, yeah, two hours,
Speaker 1: gave him the time slowly, didn't just he owned the type.
Speaker 2: I so Carson did with right.
Speaker 1: So because of that, CBS couldn't really do anything to me,
Speaker 1: because Dave owned the Times law, David sanctioned me being there,
Speaker 1: and Dave was in New York and I was in
Speaker 1: La So Dave didn't give a ship. David Roburnette were
Speaker 1: making their show, they didn't give a ship. But me,
Speaker 1: They're busy, they're doing their own They're making the big
Speaker 1: show in the theater and I'm making the shitty, little
Speaker 1: fucking show in a wardrobe in Los Angeles and they
Speaker 1: don't care there. I mean, they're nice enough, but you
Speaker 1: don't give a ship and CBS can't touch it. So
Speaker 1: the anomally of what happened, that's why I don't think
Speaker 1: I was under the same kind of pressure that you
Speaker 1: guys would have been.
Speaker 2: For sure, nobody was coming to me. And also like
Speaker 2: Conan replaced David Letterman, right, Yeah, that was like the
Speaker 2: big story and then David Letterman moves to Lenos to
Speaker 2: uh to CBS was such a huge thing. And then
Speaker 2: who's going to replace Letterman? Whereas you replaced Craig Killboard
Speaker 2: and he was but man. Yeah, but they didn't have
Speaker 2: the impact of a Letterman show.
Speaker 1: Oh so I think, well, I was lucky in as
Speaker 1: well as I didn't have the specter of Johnny Carson exactly.
Speaker 2: You know, I had grown up.
Speaker 1: With Johnny I had I didn't know the language. I
Speaker 1: didn't I didn't speak.
Speaker 2: It, I know. And by now, yeah, there was less
Speaker 2: pressure on this time slot with Snyder and then kill
Speaker 2: Born and it's like, so it hadn't been like, oh,
Speaker 2: we've got a you know, we got to match Snyder's
Speaker 2: ratings or whatever. I'm sorry. I loved he was lovely. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but so but he was doing a different thing. But yeah,
Speaker 2: and you know, you so when you were part of
Speaker 2: like I remember this so well, they had like different
Speaker 2: hosts every week for months.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I had to. It was basically American idol
Speaker 1: at And so the.
Speaker 2: Very first time you did it, when you were really auditioning, Yeah,
Speaker 2: what was your attitude? Were you scared or did you
Speaker 2: were you not give a ship? This is like the
Speaker 2: first gift one does.
Speaker 1: I did it too nice because the reason they gave
Speaker 1: me is because I've been on Conan. I've been on
Speaker 1: Conan as a guest from the Drew Carey show, Yeah,
Speaker 1: or a movie or something that Peter Losally had seen.
Speaker 1: Peter la Sally, who was like the host whisper right,
Speaker 1: he had seen me on Cone and then he said
Speaker 1: we should try that guy. And they're like the eighth
Speaker 1: banana from Drew Carrey show.
Speaker 2: We try this guy. And so he they gave me.
Speaker 1: They just put me in the mix with everybody else.
Speaker 1: So the first two times I didn't give a ship
Speaker 1: because I was I was making an independent movie in Canada,
Speaker 1: in Winnipeg. Nothing against Winnipeg or in Canada, but you know,
Speaker 1: I just I was just there doing my thing and
Speaker 1: they said coming, Craig Calbourne's giving up.
Speaker 2: Do you want to come in?
Speaker 1: And I was like I fell in for a couple
Speaker 1: and I said right now, and you.
Speaker 2: Don't see it was like, this is my show, this
Speaker 2: is what I've been dreaming. I was like, it's come
Speaker 2: to this, that's what And then what happened is I
Speaker 2: did it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I loved it.
Speaker 2: Fucking They got me right away the first one free,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: So I did two nights and I spoke to La
Speaker 1: Sally and I'm like, I fucking love this, Peter, I
Speaker 1: gotta have this, and he said, well, it's not up
Speaker 1: to me. There's also David Lherman and Lis moon Venza
Speaker 1: and we got to and I was like, well, I
Speaker 1: want to do this. What do I need to do?
Speaker 1: And he said, let me work on it, and so
Speaker 1: he gave me a week, d L. Hugley a week,
Speaker 1: Mike Leean Black a week, and.
Speaker 2: I there was one other guy who did.
Speaker 1: It as well, but we gave us all a week
Speaker 1: to host it for a week and then they made
Speaker 1: the decision after h Yeah.
Speaker 2: But you did you feel you probably tightened up a
Speaker 2: little bit that week compared to the first two. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wasn't as good that week, but minus to
Speaker 1: scrape because.
Speaker 2: I remember Conan his very first audition, Yeah, was like, okay,
Speaker 2: what the fuck? He was in Burbank. There was no audience,
Speaker 2: or there was like a tiny audience of just inside
Speaker 2: network people, right, and he interviewed Mimi Rodgers and Jason Alexander.
Speaker 2: It was like very informal, and he killed it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he killed it. And then like then we started doing
Speaker 2: test shows and I was like, Okay, you seem a
Speaker 2: little nervous compared to the do you think it is?
Speaker 2: And he's like, I had nothing to lose then.
Speaker 1: But don't you think that the combat Like if you're
Speaker 1: auditioned an actors for a movie or something that the
Speaker 1: first time they came in they kill it. Then you say, oh,
Speaker 1: we got to bring you back to let their network
Speaker 1: see you or and then they get they want to
Speaker 1: and they tense.
Speaker 2: Up, like that scene in Groundhog Day when Bill Murray
Speaker 2: tries to recreate the date with Andy McDowell. Right, it's
Speaker 2: such a heartbreaking scene. Yeah, I love that movie. Oh
Speaker 2: that's amazing.
Speaker 1: That's an amazing But I have one of the first
Speaker 1: movies I saw when I came out of rehab.
Speaker 2: Oh really yeah, it was run by that time, and
Speaker 2: I went to that movie.
Speaker 1: I went, this feels like, this feels like it's like
Speaker 1: I went through this, that's a good movie to see.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, the first one I saw was Robin Hood Prince
Speaker 1: of Themes with Kevin Costner, and I cried all the
Speaker 1: way through it. And I'm like, I don't think it's
Speaker 1: a normal human reaction to try to that. So I
Speaker 1: knew that I was probably in a phone with the state.
Speaker 2: But I want to tell Day's amazing because he's like
Speaker 2: working on himself. The whole movie ends up being about that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but that's what it is. How do you better? Be better?
Speaker 2: Be better?
Speaker 1: Or until you learn something, you're gonna do the same
Speaker 1: fucking thing every time. You're going to fuck up every
Speaker 1: time as you learn. Yeah, So let me ask you
Speaker 1: a little bit about the lead up to you being
Speaker 1: in comedy, because I think of you as being Let
Speaker 1: me spooll back a little bit on this.
Speaker 2: Here's what it is about. I don't know. Four or
Speaker 2: five years in the Late Night.
Speaker 1: I interviewed Stephen King and Stephen King is I'm a
Speaker 1: fan of Stephen King and he's written some of the
Speaker 1: most horrific pieces of literature I've ever encountered in dark
Speaker 1: fucking shit, and he he came on the show. I
Speaker 1: was excited to talk to him, and he's one of
Speaker 1: the most upbeat, pleasant, nice, well adjusted.
Speaker 2: People I've ever talked, right, And I thought, what the hell,
Speaker 2: And it.
Speaker 1: Began a little thing in my head because a lot
Speaker 1: of the people who I thought were going to be nice,
Speaker 1: particularly people who wrote, performed, or were part of romantic comedies,
Speaker 1: fucking assholes. And I was like, oh my god, what
Speaker 1: the hell is this? And what it began to foster
Speaker 1: in my mind that I'm kind of a little further
Speaker 1: down in line with it now is that I think
Speaker 1: people who do comedy are the impulse to get into
Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily stay that way, but the impulse to
Speaker 1: get into comedy and to make people laugh, particularly with
Speaker 1: stand ups, but really with anyone, is a reaction to
Speaker 1: trauma or discomfort.
Speaker 2: Discomfort sure, at least discomfort on someone.
Speaker 1: What do you think you're discomfort? Because if you write
Speaker 1: stuff like Triumph or TV Funhouse, you know, the ambiguously
Speaker 1: gay you, this is some dark shit getting work through.
Speaker 1: Where do you think that?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it might have been. I mean
Speaker 2: it's weird because, like I laugh about my childhood, it
Speaker 2: was a pretty soft, happy child. I had, like you know,
Speaker 2: Jewish parents that treated me like a god. Like I
Speaker 2: could draw Charlie Brown and Fred Flintstone when I was five,
Speaker 2: and they just like shoved it in every friend's face.
Speaker 2: He's a genius. You know. It's like they were calling
Speaker 2: me a genius when I was five years old, and
Speaker 2: so you sort of feel like I didn't I didn't
Speaker 2: lack for approofal and like I was joking to people
Speaker 2: that like some of my most traumatic moments when I
Speaker 2: was a kid, or just moments where I was trying
Speaker 2: not to laugh at a in the middle of a
Speaker 2: wedding or a bar Mitz or something that's very funny.
Speaker 2: That's like the kind of thing. But I think I
Speaker 2: had just I think I was just born with like
Speaker 2: a slight sense of darkness, like I actually, I think
Speaker 2: some people just come out that way. You know. I've
Speaker 2: always been attracted to Like my dad gave me a
Speaker 2: Peanuts book when I was six years old, and I
Speaker 2: just became obsessed with Peanuts because it was the first
Speaker 2: thing I'd ever read for kids that didn't act like
Speaker 2: everything turns out okay, right, you know, everything before then,
Speaker 2: I mean, I loved bugs bunny cartoons, but there's always
Speaker 2: a winner and a loser and keynuts. Just everything was
Speaker 2: just like kind of everyone lived in this middle ground
Speaker 2: of you know, yeah, things are okay, and I understand that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I definitely but even then I didn't really identify
Speaker 2: with like Charlie Brown and all his anxieties, but I
Speaker 2: just but I liked hearing about them. So something there
Speaker 2: definitely connected with me.
Speaker 1: And what about around other kids, if your parents are
Speaker 1: nice and stuff, what was like I.
Speaker 2: Was popular because I was funny, like, so I didn't
Speaker 2: really have I mean, I was definitely I definitely had
Speaker 2: anxiety when I got older with like girls and stuff. Right,
Speaker 2: I was definitely had that. And I think I was
Speaker 2: essentially a shy person who who got it out in
Speaker 2: you know, different ways, like I would cartoons or I
Speaker 2: would imitate people.
Speaker 1: Well, laughter from other people is a massive surge of approval,
Speaker 1: isn't that.
Speaker 2: Approval? And it's also you know, you fool people into
Speaker 2: liking you. Yeah, because I wasn't great at like talking
Speaker 2: to people. I've always been kind of a shy person
Speaker 2: on that level, a little bit inhibited. And I don't
Speaker 2: know where that comes from, but I've always I've always
Speaker 2: had a little of that growing up. So so yeah,
Speaker 2: this was my outlet as a kid. It's sort of
Speaker 2: how I skated by by being funny. I drew pictures
Speaker 2: of my friends. I you know, I ended up during
Speaker 2: cartoons of them imitating them, imitating teachers writing songs about
Speaker 2: my friends.
Speaker 1: But that that's kind of I think that's that's kind
Speaker 1: of normal.
Speaker 2: For you, you know.
Speaker 1: But I think that the idea of I don't think
Speaker 1: the genius definition of you is inaccurate, by the way,
Speaker 1: And I don't throw that word around because people do.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, he's the genius.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's the most genius soccer player. He's the
Speaker 1: most genius swimmer. You go, what really, I mean? I
Speaker 1: can swim, you know, he plays with the ball, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, but.
Speaker 2: It's got to be another word for someone who's really.
Speaker 1: Good, good at one thing, yeah, you know, or I
Speaker 1: think it's really good, but genius, but genius.
Speaker 2: Quite a genius. But that's sounds like it's not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, but genius I think is quite an interesting
Speaker 1: description of you because it because I think it's pretty accurate,
Speaker 1: especially if you're doing it, especially if you're doing.
Speaker 2: It right away. Do you know what I mean? If
Speaker 2: I wasn't a genius, I could just draw I was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like the ramshackle ship that and I'm using
Speaker 1: the word ramshackle more than one because I really feel
Speaker 1: it because I really connected with it, like years before
Speaker 1: I was on Late Night, years before any of that stuff.
Speaker 1: I would see, like I think it was like late nineties.
Speaker 1: Triumph started on Coner because I used to watch Coding
Speaker 1: every now, yeah, and and Triump started on CODA. I'm like,
Speaker 1: whatever the fuck that is, that's it, that's what it is.
Speaker 1: And Codon all the way through like when he would
Speaker 1: have it used to have ted what's his name?
Speaker 2: The guy started CNN turner, Oh yeah, that was Will
Speaker 2: Forte would come on and then he would bump the.
Speaker 1: That was Buffalo and oh yeah yeah, years down that line.
Speaker 2: Down and that's when he was on TVs right, yeah,
Speaker 2: even then, it's still what the hell is going on now?
Speaker 1: But all of that stuff that that, and there was
Speaker 1: another thing I liked. I know this wasn't your thing,
Speaker 1: but it felt like the vibe of the same thing
Speaker 1: was do you remember Space Ghost Coast to Coast?
Speaker 2: Sure? I loved that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I loved I did an episode of that
Speaker 1: and it was never air.
Speaker 2: Triumph did one too. Yeah, that's right, I saw it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I loved Space Ghost, but even more I loved Sea Lab.
Speaker 2: Do you remember Sea Lab on Adult Swim. It's an
Speaker 2: old Hanni Barbara show and they just used all this
Speaker 2: shitty animation that existed and they just redubbed it and removed.
Speaker 2: But they didn't just redub it. They also manipulated the animation,
Speaker 2: made new stories, do you joke? Absolutely brilliant stuff. I'm
Speaker 2: actually working on a reboot of a fun house kind
Speaker 2: of show that's going to be more less topical, but
Speaker 2: recurring characters that I'm developing for Peacock. Yeah, I am
Speaker 2: doing something with my friend Dino, who a brilliant writer
Speaker 2: that started with at Conan. I always get anybody who
Speaker 2: ever uses a genius on me. I always feel like
Speaker 2: you don't know the people I work with. Like That's
Speaker 2: how as a comedy writer, I feel like I've gotten
Speaker 2: a lot of attention because my name is on stuff
Speaker 2: Saturday Night Live cartoons, and then people know me is
Speaker 2: Triumph or whatever. I'm very proud of my work, but
Speaker 2: I also know so many guys that I've worked with.
Speaker 2: Sketch writing is a weird and talk show writing. It's
Speaker 2: not like being a playwriter a screenwriter. You don't get
Speaker 2: your name. Your name's on a list and you know
Speaker 2: you might write the most you might have written the
Speaker 2: most brilliant thing that night, and it's just you know,
Speaker 2: And so I feel like I always feel uncomfortable because
Speaker 2: I just know so many people that I consider brilliant
Speaker 2: and they're just not famous because their names aren't.
Speaker 1: I think brilliance is essential. Like one of the mistakes
Speaker 1: I think I made early on, and I see people
Speaker 1: making this mistake is that they behave either badly or
Speaker 1: arrogantly young performers because they think they're so talented. And
Speaker 1: they're right, they are so talented. But that's like when
Speaker 1: you get in a shoe business, talent is kind of
Speaker 1: like your driver's license. You're going to need that. You're
Speaker 1: going to need to be super fucking talented. Sure what
Speaker 1: else you got, because super talented is not fucking rare,
Speaker 1: and shoe business is plenty of true.
Speaker 2: It's true. I mean I run into people. It's on.
Speaker 1: You see kids doing ship on TikTok, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's great.
Speaker 2: You know, it bums me out more than having to
Speaker 2: audition people for a movie or something, or when I
Speaker 2: auditioned people for the Dana Carvey Show, because you're just
Speaker 2: overwhelmed by how many people are good enough to do it,
Speaker 2: and then you have to pick like six. I remember
Speaker 2: literally being in tears after the callbacks and my wife's like,
Speaker 2: what's wrong with you? And I'm like, because I can't.
Speaker 2: It's just some of this is like their big shot
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to be able to and that's
Speaker 2: and then that's Originally the show got canceled in eight episodes,
Speaker 2: so I was deluded.
Speaker 1: I don't understand why that was canceled. The Dana Carvey
Speaker 1: show that you you you cast their own people except
Speaker 1: except for Steve Carrell and Stephen Cole exactly. That's what
Speaker 1: I was going to say, that show shouldn't ago canceled.
Speaker 2: Uh, it was in the wrong time slot. It was
Speaker 2: we Dana and I were determined to bring late night
Speaker 2: comedy to prime time. I remember it was a different era,
Speaker 2: and I remember even when we were doing SNL in
Speaker 2: the later part of my run there, I remember thinking
Speaker 2: this show should be on at ten on Thursday night.
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be eleven thirty because primetime was a bigger
Speaker 2: deal back then. It was, and I felt like our
Speaker 2: audiences aged with the show, like you know, in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy five, it was new and there was a young
Speaker 2: audience for it, but now everybody's grown up. It should
Speaker 2: be a primetime show. And Lauren. I brought it up
Speaker 2: to Lauren. He was no fucking way, and he was smart.
Speaker 2: He knew he had a good thing going and he
Speaker 2: wanted to do it. Well. Now it's like it's more
Speaker 2: than ever.
Speaker 1: It's a weird little it's a weird little kind of
Speaker 1: corner of show business really because it seems like it's
Speaker 1: college for young performers.
Speaker 2: It is like college for young performers in high school,
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it. It's definitely although more
Speaker 2: and more people stay and stay and stay because jobs
Speaker 2: are just hard to come by.
Speaker 1: Like she was kind of on fire right now anyway,
Speaker 1: isn't it. It's kind of going through a change.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, there was the streaming boom and
Speaker 2: now everything now all you hear is like.
Speaker 1: Well, I think what happened with the streaming boom is
Speaker 1: all the assholes awards of the networks all got jobs
Speaker 1: and streaming and they start fucking that up now.
Speaker 2: Because it's You're right, I don't want to name names
Speaker 2: or anything and be but but but yes, I can't know,
Speaker 2: you can know you well, I know, but I don't
Speaker 2: know it's fair. I want to work. But what I
Speaker 2: did notice that some of these streaming places started off
Speaker 2: very adventurous with their own people, and then it's like
Speaker 2: we're bringing in this guy who used to work at
Speaker 2: Sony and this person and this and that, and like,
Speaker 2: you know, I I assume it's unavoidable at a certain
Speaker 2: point because the business is so insular anyway. But I remember,
Speaker 2: like the first when they were first doing it, I
Speaker 2: was like, no, no, no, you have you're doing it
Speaker 2: the right way. You're following your gut, don't follow rules.
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is about it, though, I kind of
Speaker 1: understand it from their perspective because they there was a
Speaker 1: friend of mine.
Speaker 2: You you know, John Feldheimer. He started and run John Feltheimer,
Speaker 2: Yeah he did.
Speaker 1: He's the creator of Lionsgate.
Speaker 2: Sounds like a headline of the National Inquirer. No, John Feltheimer,
Speaker 2: John Feldheimer. Sorry, I'll look see. Remember when I said.
Speaker 1: Genius, I'm gonna I'm going to dial it back a
Speaker 1: little bit, you know. Somebody said to me there this
Speaker 1: is a kind of a sight. They were talking about
Speaker 1: how great David Kelly was, like his work genius, genius,
Speaker 1: except this. This person was saying me, David Kelly, He's
Speaker 1: never made anything bad.
Speaker 2: I went, sure, he has.
Speaker 1: No, No, I've never seen anything that has his that
Speaker 1: that hasn't worked to go. That's because you don't get
Speaker 1: to fucking see it.
Speaker 2: It's like he makes a violot junked. You know. I
Speaker 2: guess some of my favorite things I've ever written nobody
Speaker 2: has seen.
Speaker 1: The best thing I've ever done on TV is never
Speaker 1: been seen. Really, Yeah, I did a pilot for after
Speaker 1: I finished The Late and I had a pilot with
Speaker 1: h David Frankel directed it mm HM called The King
Speaker 1: of seven B.
Speaker 2: It's for ABC. It was a guy.
Speaker 1: I played, this guy who was an agrophobe. We can
Speaker 1: live in New York City, would never go out, and
Speaker 1: so everything just happened in his aparliament.
Speaker 2: People come to the part and it was great as
Speaker 2: a great script and I loved it, amazed it even online.
Speaker 2: Don't think so. I don't know where that is. You
Speaker 2: don't even have a copy. No, oh man, that's why
Speaker 2: I probably think it's so great. No, I bet it's great.
Speaker 2: It's pretty good, honestly, Like I really feel that way.
Speaker 2: Like some of my favorite things I've ever written are
Speaker 2: things that were just rejected, and one of them, Conan
Speaker 2: was nice enough to let us. So we wrote a
Speaker 2: screenplay for Hans and Franz, the SNL characters Bodybuilders. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Dana Carvey and I and Kevin Neil and and Conan
Speaker 2: also worked on it right, and we wrote it in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one and it was an insane, absolutely bonded script.
Speaker 2: We all thought it was like the funniest thing we'd
Speaker 2: ever written, and the studio was just like, this is shit.
Speaker 2: And Arnold, originally he was he was the engine that
Speaker 2: drove us to do it because he had been on
Speaker 2: USNL a couple of times. It was like, yeah, this
Speaker 2: is funny. It was a little movie about you guys,
Speaker 2: want to make it Hollywood cousin, and so we wrote
Speaker 2: this thing and it was absolutely insane. And then Arnold
Speaker 2: ultimately like did the Last Action Hero and that didn't work.
Speaker 2: So he didn't want to ever wink at the audience
Speaker 2: and be himself and that's it. It was just done.
Speaker 2: And then like a year ago, Conan was like, let's
Speaker 2: read it. Let's just read it on the show. And
Speaker 2: so Dana, Kevin and I and Conan. Conan narrated, I
Speaker 2: played Arnold and we got such an amazing response, and
Speaker 2: it was so gratifying because it's like these things, I'm
Speaker 2: sure that this this is like just this nagging thing
Speaker 2: in your brain, like, oh that fucking thing, you know,
Speaker 2: And so it was such a great feeling to see
Speaker 2: the response online, like people loved it.
Speaker 1: If you ever made a thing that you thought was
Speaker 1: great and everybody else thought it sucked.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean at SNL, that would happen, like,
Speaker 2: you know, I'd write a Tuesday Night and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I feel that's coached in politics.
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, oh no, I would like then
Speaker 2: it would bomb. Some things are couched in politics, but
Speaker 2: sometimes they would bomb. And I was like, okay, maybe
Speaker 2: I maybe I was wrong. Yeah, maybe I. But it's
Speaker 2: very hard to come to grips with something that you
Speaker 2: once thought was hysterical and just something's in your brain forever.
Speaker 2: It's just like, no, there's something I did something. There's
Speaker 2: just a tiny little left turn and it would have
Speaker 2: worked something. Yeah, it's really hard to let go. Yeah,
Speaker 2: for me, it is. It is.
Speaker 1: I've made a couple of things I thought that that's great,
Speaker 1: this is going to be a massive hit.
Speaker 2: Yeah it wasn't. It wasn't a massive Well a lot
Speaker 2: of times that you don't get to, Oh yeah, I
Speaker 2: had a show. Just watched an episode like or not
Speaker 2: even I just watched five minutes and I got so
Speaker 2: angry because I was like, what's happened? Why? Why didn't
Speaker 2: this work? I don't get it. Well, you get it,
Speaker 2: but I don't.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing I was going to tell you
Speaker 1: about Pelheimer, whom sorry, so Philheimer, John Felheimer, who's a
Speaker 1: nice guy and you'd like him. He was part of
Speaker 1: the team that sold MGM to Sony okay, right, And
Speaker 1: he said, this is what happened. To go in for
Speaker 1: the big meeting. There's all the Japanese executives and all
Speaker 1: the American team that are selling it over and they
Speaker 1: say to him. They're going through a translator and they're
Speaker 1: talking to this Japanese guy and he says, will you
Speaker 1: please tell I can't remember the guy's name, he said,
Speaker 1: please tell him. The movie business is basically, we make
Speaker 1: about fifty movies a year.
Speaker 2: This is back then.
Speaker 1: We make about fifty movies a year. You know, twenty
Speaker 1: of them will do okay, you know ten of them
Speaker 1: will suck and the rest of the week right right,
Speaker 1: or or a different set numbers, And again it goes
Speaker 1: through the translator and the guy says a bunch of Jeopanese.
Speaker 1: The translator go back and says, yeah. What he says
Speaker 1: is only make the good ones. We don't know, that's it.
Speaker 2: We don't know what's gonna work. You don't know. But
Speaker 2: I do feel like when people follow their gut got
Speaker 2: a better chance. I think so. I mean, I always
Speaker 2: look to Seinfeld that show as just a perfect example
Speaker 2: of people following their gut doing because it's only when
Speaker 2: you do something that hasn't been done that that you
Speaker 2: get the big hit. But the problem is your work.
Speaker 1: I think what you're doing is you're working against the
Speaker 1: people who are afraid of that. If you're doing something
Speaker 1: that hasn't been done right, that's the that's the last
Speaker 1: thing they want to do.
Speaker 2: No, I know. Well, the Dana Carvey Show is an
Speaker 2: example exactly right. They said to us, I remember this
Speaker 2: so clearly. It's so funny because you were on Drew Carrey.
Speaker 2: So this is nineteen ninety five. ABC is a very
Speaker 2: corny network at this point. I mean, not that these
Speaker 2: shows are bad, but like you know, Grace, Underfire, Roseanne,
Speaker 2: it was very like, yeah, family oriented sitcoms, and suddenly
Speaker 2: we're bringing the Dana Carvey Show and we're like, I
Speaker 2: don't know. ABC is like the least hip network, even
Speaker 2: CBS has more. NBC was the hip network. They had
Speaker 2: Seinshelder Want CTV and all those urban sitcoms, and so
Speaker 2: they're like, no, no, no, this is exactly what we
Speaker 2: want to be doing. And so I have now when
Speaker 2: I tell people, I always tell people, if someone says
Speaker 2: that to you, run for the hills, yeah, because they
Speaker 2: are not going to be ready for what you want.
Speaker 2: Wait let them, let them figure it out in a year,
Speaker 2: because then the show gets canceled. And then the next
Speaker 2: year there's Ellen and the Drew Carey Show on Wednesday nights,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, where were these shows when mean perfect
Speaker 2: the show?
Speaker 1: We ended up doing all that variety stuff and musical numbers.
Speaker 2: Yes, Data Carvey Show. Yes, I was like, where was
Speaker 2: this when we were on? They weren't ready. There's personnel changes,
Speaker 2: the energy were right, they did want to change their network,
Speaker 2: and they did. They had more sophisticated quote unquote, I
Speaker 2: don't want to disparage Roseanne because it's a great show obviously,
Speaker 2: but you know, more shows that would be compatible with
Speaker 2: the Dana Carvey Show. And you know, it was just
Speaker 2: like literally a year late.
Speaker 1: How do you handle failure? Are you good at it?
Speaker 2: I desperately try to move on to something else so
Speaker 2: that I don't dwell on it. So the Dana Carvey Show,
Speaker 2: I was thank god I had The Ambiguously Gay Duo
Speaker 2: was a cartoon within the Data Carvey Show, because I
Speaker 2: wanted the Dana Carvey Show to look as different from
Speaker 2: SNL as possible, and one of the things was the cartoons.
Speaker 2: The only one we did was the Ambiguously Gay Duo,
Speaker 2: but I loved it. It's one of my favorite ideas ever.
Speaker 2: And then over that summer, I'm just in survival mode
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, Okay, what other cartoons? And then I
Speaker 2: have this idea for something called fun with Real Audio,
Speaker 2: which I did on SNL a lot. We took the
Speaker 2: audio of celebrity interviews and things like that or political
Speaker 2: debates and made crazy animation to those voices. And then
Speaker 2: I got really excited and I just called Lauren Michaels,
Speaker 2: who wanted me back at SNL anyway, I was like, well,
Speaker 2: I figured out a way that where I'd be excited
Speaker 2: to go back, and it was the easiest phone call.
Speaker 2: He was like, good, let's do it. And that saved
Speaker 2: me that time. And then after the Jack and Triumph show,
Speaker 2: I it was like twenty sixteen now and we had
Speaker 2: that show didn't work. But the election was coming up
Speaker 2: and people were a couple of people that it was
Speaker 2: in a Wall Street Journal article and Laurence o'donald, the
Speaker 2: NBC commentator. They both called Trump Trump the insult comic
Speaker 2: dog because of his behavior, and it made me think, oh,
Speaker 2: I should cover the election. I should cover it. That's right, Triumph, Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I covered it. So the whole gimmick was like
Speaker 2: the bar has been lowered, and now Triumph is ready
Speaker 2: to be a political you know, correspondent because the dialogue
Speaker 2: has gotten so base and embarrassing thanks to Trump. So
Speaker 2: Hulu was all in and I got to do like
Speaker 2: six right after the right after the Triumph Show failed,
Speaker 2: the Adult Swim Show, I got to do these political
Speaker 2: specials on Hulu I did. I got to do six
Speaker 2: of them, cover the whole election, got nominated for an
Speaker 2: Emmy and it was just like, so that's the thing.
Speaker 1: I just like, so I just run to the next Riday.
Speaker 1: So you deal with failure by succeeding down the line desperately, Yeah,
Speaker 1: trying to. Yeah, Yeah, I understand it because I think
Speaker 1: that the idea of it I come from a culture.
Speaker 1: I think this is another reason I think why I
Speaker 1: became an American. Yeah, is it boils down to the
Speaker 1: failure in America is like, okay, next failure. Where I
Speaker 1: grew up in the environment that I.
Speaker 2: Grew up, and it was like, you should never have te.
Speaker 1: Well you failed that any of us surprise, we fat
Speaker 1: creak failed.
Speaker 2: Oh god.
Speaker 1: But in America, you swing, you mess, you go. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you swing, you mess, you go again. It doesn't you fail.
Speaker 1: Of course you fail. Everybody fails, and if you have.
Speaker 2: If you have adoring Jewish parents, it's even more so.
Speaker 2: Well idiots, Those people are idiots.
Speaker 1: They don't understand see the genius you're drawing.
Speaker 2: My dad after a good SNL, after I had a
Speaker 2: good sketch on SNL, he would always say to me,
Speaker 2: always cracked me up. Did Lord Michaels, does he appreciate
Speaker 2: how good that was? Did he tell you, does he does?
Speaker 2: He know?
Speaker 1: This is the opposite of what I know, because because
Speaker 1: I the first time I get nominated this an Amy,
Speaker 1: I called my mother in schools you're still alive, and
Speaker 1: I called my mother in Scotland. That was in California.
Speaker 1: I said, oh, I've been nominated for an Amy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she been, oh, that's nice.
Speaker 1: Robert Carlile the Scottish Act has also been nominated.
Speaker 2: I was like, you knew, so you knew.
Speaker 1: You looked at the Emmy nominations, you knew I'd be
Speaker 1: nominated for. Didn't say, yeah, Robert Kyle is a nice guy,
Speaker 1: but I didn't need to be part of that conversation.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And it kind of like it's a it's a different
Speaker 1: way of coming at it.
Speaker 2: It's funny because like the other side of it to
Speaker 2: have parents that are so into it and just like
Speaker 2: he's nominated everybody, and it's like I almost it almost
Speaker 2: makes me crazier in some way, because I like to
Speaker 2: make you when you were a kid and they were
Speaker 2: not angry, but like no, but when I was doing
Speaker 2: SNL and things and my dad would say things like
Speaker 2: that wouldn't make me angry. But it would subliminally sometimes
Speaker 2: it would make me care too much much about Like
Speaker 2: I try to keep an even keel about this and
Speaker 2: not be that needy for but when my parents want
Speaker 2: it as much.
Speaker 1: Or more than I do, you're going to let them down.
Speaker 2: It's like a whole other level. Yeah, no, I can
Speaker 2: see that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what I think then is that here's what
Speaker 1: I'm going to get. I feel that your trauma was
Speaker 1: more manipulative than mine. Mine was just like stay up
Speaker 1: a Tubby's a fat wee boy, and he's going to
Speaker 1: feel you will let us down if you fail, even
Speaker 1: if later.
Speaker 2: I don't think that. I don't think I picked up
Speaker 2: on that when I was a little kid. Yeah, by
Speaker 2: the way, I know, I know, maybe right though, maybe
Speaker 2: there was a little part of me that like, just like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I love how happy they are. I
Speaker 2: just want to make them happy all the time. I
Speaker 2: mean I did when I but this was out of
Speaker 2: appreciation of their support, like when I won my first Emmy.
Speaker 2: Because I hate awards, I really do.
Speaker 1: I really like getting them. I hate when other people
Speaker 1: win them, but when I know it's fun.
Speaker 2: To get him, but when you get them, Yeah, but
Speaker 2: I just but here's what I did, because I actually
Speaker 2: didn't want to feel that way when I won my
Speaker 2: first Emmy, because I was like, no, the reward is
Speaker 2: the job and the opportunity and that I get to
Speaker 2: do this work. This is random. Jason Alexander's never won one,
Speaker 2: the most ridiculous thing he still I never won for
Speaker 2: cot Stanza. That's crazy, the funniest character in the history
Speaker 2: of television. That's crazy. That's all you need to know
Speaker 2: to keep you sane about award. It's like it's random.
Speaker 2: You try to take it seriously. But I remember this
Speaker 2: first time we won the Emmy for SNL. I would
Speaker 2: look I saw recently a photograph of all the writers,
Speaker 2: and I'm the only one not smiling. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: be above it. And then I remember, and then I
Speaker 2: I took it on the plane, got off the plane,
Speaker 2: went straight to my parents' apartment, gave it to them.
Speaker 2: Didn't want it, just wanted them to have it. That's interesting.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to have it. I didn't want to
Speaker 2: care about it, and I knew how much they cared
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Well, but I understand that don't want to care about it,
Speaker 1: because if you care about something they can hurt you.
Speaker 2: It's a trap. This is like one more thing. I
Speaker 2: had so much anxiety, and I'd already put so much
Speaker 2: anxiety on myself just wanting to be good, wanting to
Speaker 2: get my sketches on all of that. I didn't need
Speaker 2: to win an Emmy at that point. It's fun.
Speaker 1: But the thing is kind of like how you change
Speaker 1: when your kids are born. Suddenly suddenly there's a human
Speaker 1: being in the world and you really care about them.
Speaker 2: Oh you know. I mean, of course you care about
Speaker 2: other people you're in religiouships with when you're like, oh
Speaker 2: my God.
Speaker 1: And then the level of fear that that jacked up
Speaker 1: in me I can't even describe.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, and still to this day without a doubt,
Speaker 2: all parents, you know, have that, And then I have
Speaker 2: this extra level. I had that when my first son
Speaker 2: was born. Then when he was diagnosed with autism and
Speaker 2: he had pretty he's pretty affected, then that became a
Speaker 2: whole other thing where it's like, Okay, my life is his.
Speaker 2: Everything I do is you know, through the prism of
Speaker 2: making sure I can support him for the rest of
Speaker 2: his life, right, you know, And you know, it's been challenging,
Speaker 2: but it's also provided clarity for you know, one creative,
Speaker 2: fucked up person who's you know, constantly riddled with these
Speaker 2: kind of you know, conflicts in your head.
Speaker 1: You know, So it was kind of a gift in
Speaker 1: I understand it.
Speaker 2: It's the weird kind of look.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say that your son being autistic
Speaker 1: is a negative.
Speaker 2: It's not a negative.
Speaker 1: It's just that it's just a fact of life. But
Speaker 1: when you get a piece of information that profound that
Speaker 1: you weren't planning on, it alters your perspective.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I get it. Well. At the time, I was
Speaker 2: very scared for him because there was like twenty years ago,
Speaker 2: and there weren't autism advocates. There weren't people were autistic
Speaker 2: who were advocates. There was one woman, Temple grand And
Speaker 2: who's brilliant, but that was it. And all the all
Speaker 2: the charities, all the all everything was all about a
Speaker 2: cure or cure, a cure, you know, and so you
Speaker 2: get sucked into that like, Okay, we don't worry, we're
Speaker 2: going to get a cure. This is horrible and we're
Speaker 2: going to get a cure. And then my wife and I,
Speaker 2: you know, went through various ways of trying to help them,
Speaker 2: and we kind of realized through seeing other parents that
Speaker 2: there's just not enough resources for kids who have autism,
Speaker 2: who need who need help and need kind and effective therapy.
Speaker 2: So that's when we started this Night of Too Many
Speaker 2: Stars show, and we made it all about family services
Speaker 2: and schools and nothing about research because nobody else was
Speaker 2: doing it.
Speaker 1: You know, you go do that again, the Night of
Speaker 1: Too Many Stars.
Speaker 2: We're going to do one, hopefully next spring with Netflix
Speaker 2: on their festival. I'm hoping I did one. I did one.
Speaker 2: I mean the time when this is two thousand and three,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I know everybody in show business. I
Speaker 2: have so many friends at least that I've worked with.
Speaker 2: They'll all come Sandler and Conan and everybody I know.
Speaker 2: I'd be an asshole not to do this. That's what
Speaker 2: I basically came to the conclusion of. So, so yeah,
Speaker 2: we've done.
Speaker 1: Like Sandel's an interesting figure out. I'm glad you brought
Speaker 1: him up.
Speaker 2: He's the greatest I think. So right, He's an interesting.
Speaker 1: One because there's someone who I don't think is ever.
Speaker 1: He's extremely popular and he gets the money, but I
Speaker 1: think I don't think he really gets the kudos for
Speaker 1: what he's done, you know, the work he's done. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because the Latin movie you did with him, the Zohan movie.
Speaker 1: That's a great movie. That is a great movie. It's
Speaker 1: a great man.
Speaker 2: I don't know how people would feel watching it now, but.
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of necessary now more than some ways,
Speaker 1: as I remember, you know, the relationship Zohan was the
Speaker 1: he was the Israeli hairdresser and his girlfriend was the Palestinian.
Speaker 2: Yes, and Johan really yes, he was a he was
Speaker 2: a massad agent who was like almost a superhero, but
Speaker 2: his dream was to become a hairstylist. Hairstylist. Yes, And
Speaker 2: then uh yeah, I mean what what holds up I'm
Speaker 2: sure is the notion that ultimately these people learn that
Speaker 2: they live together and work together in the same neighborhood
Speaker 2: in Brooklyn, and that it's only all these just how
Speaker 2: similar they are. That was sort of the ultimate point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I remember the feeling of the movie because
Speaker 1: the movie I thought, I'm watched I'm gonna watch one
Speaker 1: of Adam Sandler's laugh out load kind of like guilty
Speaker 1: pleasure movie, right right, And it had that sure, but
Speaker 1: and then going oh okay, which I think is a
Speaker 1: real gift when you see a movie when you think
Speaker 1: it's going to be one thing, and it is that
Speaker 1: thing that it also gives you gives you a little
Speaker 1: more stuff as well, like like it's got got a
Speaker 1: soul and a little.
Speaker 2: Bit you know. No, I was happy. Jokes are great,
Speaker 2: but yeah, the choice to make the bad guy someone
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a cliche. It was an American real
Speaker 2: estate developer and who was going to raise their neighborhood.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, the choice of just making
Speaker 2: the point that they are the same in this country,
Speaker 2: they could be the same anywhere. We could just let go. Well,
Speaker 2: that's the enough.
Speaker 1: It's part of the maybe because it's the emmigrant experience.
Speaker 2: For me.
Speaker 1: I went back to Scotland five years ago and I
Speaker 1: went back for five years and ultimately I'm like, no
Speaker 1: from here any I need to get back to New York. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I need to go back to America. And I have
Speaker 1: come back and I'm back in America right And it
Speaker 1: was nothing to do. I love Scotland. This is a
Speaker 1: great place, but I belong here for whatever fucking reason.
Speaker 1: I think what happens is when you become an emigrant,
Speaker 1: when you get that when that thing gets in, it
Speaker 1: doesn't go for me, it won't go.
Speaker 2: I hear you. I mean, this is a great country
Speaker 2: in many ways, kind of it. Kind of.
Speaker 1: Gorvidal. Recently, I've been reading I was going to say rereading,
Speaker 1: and I thought that's a lie, because I never read them.
Speaker 1: I've been reading the Empire, the Novels of Empire series.
Speaker 1: Gorvidal wrote seven books. I think it's seven books, five
Speaker 1: or seven books about the birth of America.
Speaker 2: Right, it's like in the eighties. I think he wrote these.
Speaker 1: I think he wrote them across the whole thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're interspersed, and he wrote them out of order. But
Speaker 1: he starts with the biography of Aaron Burr, who.
Speaker 2: Was fucking crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but what I love about people have gone, it's
Speaker 1: never been this bad in America. You go, it's never
Speaker 1: what Aaron Burr killed a guy and then rather a
Speaker 1: raised an army to be the emperor of Mexico while
Speaker 1: he's vice President of the United States.
Speaker 2: If you did that, you know how crazy social media
Speaker 2: would go. And you know, people have no idea how insane.
Speaker 1: Plus the fact I don't know why, I really feel
Speaker 1: is a skill that we've lost is raising an army,
Speaker 1: like I wouldn't know where to begin raising an army,
Speaker 1: Aaron Burr, like people were raising an all through history.
Speaker 1: People are like, you raised an army.
Speaker 2: Right right? I then raised an army.
Speaker 1: I can't.
Speaker 2: I can't do that.
Speaker 1: I can't someone's attention in the store raised an army.
Speaker 2: He didn't have TikTok. Yeah, but he had something. He
Speaker 2: had to do something, he had to raise an army's time.
Speaker 1: But here's what I like what these Gorvidal books says.
Speaker 1: They actually I saw Chuck Todd the other night talking
Speaker 1: about because someone was saying, do you you know because
Speaker 1: he's a history buff, and he was saying, yeah, And
Speaker 1: actually that's where I get my solace when the politics
Speaker 1: is on fire. It has never been this bad, You go, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of always. There are times when it
Speaker 1: hasn't been this bad, but you know, there was like
Speaker 1: way worse. When McKinley was shot. That was Whover even
Speaker 1: talks about that. You know, it's like, oh, Teddy Rouswald,
Speaker 1: go yeah, Teddy Ruswald, you know why he became president
Speaker 1: because they shot the other the guy who annexed the Philippies. Hell,
Speaker 1: nobody told me about this, and I think the perspective
Speaker 1: of America. I I my patriotism for America as an
Speaker 1: immigrant was very jingoistic.
Speaker 2: At first.
Speaker 1: It was naiven jingoistic, and I think that's okay. I
Speaker 1: think when you come in as a as an immigrant,
Speaker 1: that's kind of appropriate. And as you get to know
Speaker 1: the place, you go, well, it maybe isn't that.
Speaker 2: But Jesus Christ is interesting.
Speaker 1: It's a very interesting place historically and just every other way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love that.
Speaker 1: Thing PG O'Rourke said about the American Wherever the American
Speaker 1: embassy is in the world, there's always two crowds out
Speaker 1: say that, two crowds outside, two crowds. Yeah, there's one
Speaker 1: crowd of people protesting against evil America and another crowd
Speaker 1: of people went for visas.
Speaker 2: And you see them crossing over, like they're burning the flag,
Speaker 2: they're sighting the form. They're burning the flag, they're sighting
Speaker 2: the form. You know, it's that's perfect.
Speaker 1: And it kind of feels like that a little bit
Speaker 1: like sometimes I think the hyperabole of it's never been
Speaker 1: this bad to go. It's kind of like, you know,
Speaker 1: when it rains in la and people say it's never
Speaker 1: been this bad every fucking year. It's this bad every year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, you're right. Other than global warming, that's the
Speaker 2: only chicken little that's pretty badscrib that's pretty bad. That's
Speaker 2: a pretty bad thing.
Speaker 1: But that was that thing George Carlin used to say,
Speaker 1: Earth will be fine.
Speaker 2: We're fucked. I know. It is what it is now.
Speaker 2: It's maddening. It's maddening how the ship that matters the
Speaker 2: most is just boring to people.
Speaker 1: Well, it's kind of it's going to be. It's up
Speaker 1: to people like maybe me too, to try and.
Speaker 2: Get an earworm in there. That's a little different. My
Speaker 2: friend Adam McKay is basically devoted all his time to
Speaker 2: making comedy and making having you know, mobilizing people just
Speaker 2: for that cause alone, you know, And so I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: I kind of I kind of went the other way
Speaker 1: because like when Stephen Colbert took over the Late Night
Speaker 1: Yeah and he went deep politics. He was he went
Speaker 1: running right at it, which, as I think, as it
Speaker 1: turned out, was the right choice for the show and
Speaker 1: for him.
Speaker 2: I think he was coming off of politically right exactly.
Speaker 1: Had I done it, I would have probably done it
Speaker 1: the other way, and I think that would have been
Speaker 1: a mistake.
Speaker 2: I think that show that.
Speaker 1: Timeslow needed that, and I told him that when I
Speaker 1: was on the show.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, especially when Trump came into power,
Speaker 2: because it just people became obsessed with him. And you know,
Speaker 2: CNN and all these news networks, as much as they
Speaker 2: complained about him, they they loved it. They loved the
Speaker 2: attention he draws. So they made him you know, every press,
Speaker 2: every every rally, you know, it was was there, it
Speaker 2: is and uh because it was just like musty TV
Speaker 2: in their mind.
Speaker 1: I kind of what happens is with every show you
Speaker 1: get the season fucking six and people go, it's no
Speaker 1: what it was. It could be, It's no what it was.
Speaker 1: You know, I liked it before the added scrappy Do
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, vancrapy.
Speaker 2: He might be scrappy New, That's what I'm saying. He
Speaker 2: might be scrappy New.
Speaker 1: Uh you know what I mean. It's like in the
Speaker 1: Simpsons when the remember they added that character on the
Speaker 1: skateboard to try to feel the kids was. Yes, I
Speaker 1: can't remember what it was, but that's kind of I think.
Speaker 1: And I do this thing what I'm doing stand up now.
Speaker 2: I mean it's.
Speaker 1: Absolute fucking real. I don't talk about politics at all.
Speaker 2: I do feel like it's it's really hard for me
Speaker 2: to uh watch late night shows consistently because of that,
Speaker 2: because I just want to escape from that. Well that's
Speaker 2: you know, there's.
Speaker 1: Going to be at least some option for for that,
Speaker 1: because I think that's the because I'm sick. No, even
Speaker 1: people I agree with him, like, yeah, I agree with you,
Speaker 1: shut the fuck up, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean fall into some degree like he touches
Speaker 2: on it, but it's not in.
Speaker 1: A more traditional way.
Speaker 2: In a more Tonight Show Johnny Carson kind of way
Speaker 2: where you don't feel like, Okay, I really need to
Speaker 2: be invested right now and be fired up and angry
Speaker 2: and I can just kind of look at and I
Speaker 2: think that's there's a real And I'm not disparaging anyone
Speaker 2: else who does more politics, but it's nice to have
Speaker 2: somebody doing that well, I think.
Speaker 1: I think also the idea of it is I was
Speaker 1: fascinated that conversation I had with Jim gaffigin do you
Speaker 1: know Jim.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit. He's a great guy, great guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he he was I was talking about because
Speaker 1: he doesn't completely clean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, famously Jim cusses and in real life, yeah,
Speaker 2: he just talked like everybody else, right, but his act
Speaker 2: is clean. He does it.
Speaker 1: That's what I was asking him, and he said it
Speaker 1: was and he used this phrase and I went, he said,
Speaker 1: it's a stylistic choice. I set myself a task and
Speaker 1: I went, okay. And so when I was like, this
Speaker 1: was probably run about twenty sixteen, maybe a little after that,
Speaker 1: if I'm honest, I started to go, I feel everybody
Speaker 1: everybody says the name Trump, everybody says everybody's got a
Speaker 1: fucking thing, and that's fine. Of course they must be
Speaker 1: able to do that. But I'm going to make and
Speaker 1: I used it, I'm going to make a stylistic choice
Speaker 1: not to talk about any event. And so I started
Speaker 1: to write stuff. It was only about family, it was
Speaker 1: only about in personal experience. It was only about, Oh.
Speaker 2: People appreciate it. You would think that people you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of comics think, oh, I got a panda.
Speaker 2: I gotta give them what they want. But no, there's
Speaker 2: there's real value in letting people escape.
Speaker 1: I think that, and I think also the idea of
Speaker 1: you know, the only kind of was the pushbike I
Speaker 1: got from. It was not from people who were right leaning,
Speaker 1: right I know, was the interesting.
Speaker 2: You gotta be a part of it. Speak, there's too
Speaker 2: much at stake.
Speaker 1: It's like everybody.
Speaker 2: Can't anybody just be a comedian, do you know when
Speaker 2: you know, like a real comedian.
Speaker 1: Did you ever go to THEYS Correspondence?
Speaker 2: Then I have I performed there? Oh did you did
Speaker 2: you do it with one? Okay, so nineteen ninety five,
Speaker 2: back when I was doing and I will say this,
Speaker 2: what I liked about our political humor on Conan was
Speaker 2: how unique it was to our show and silly like
Speaker 2: Conan would do very light and monologue and then he
Speaker 2: would occasionally interview a famous person and it was a
Speaker 2: photograph and that was ninety percent of the time. It
Speaker 2: was me and I got to do it at the
Speaker 2: White House course Spond's dinner. Bill Clinton was the president,
Speaker 2: and that was our first real hit character was Bill Clinton,
Speaker 2: probably him and Michael Jackson. I did that a lot
Speaker 2: too back then, but when he was married to Lisa Marie.
Speaker 2: But Bill Clinton knew about the bit and they invited
Speaker 2: Conan to do the dinner and Conan was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're gonna come and you're gonna do it, and I
Speaker 2: couldn't believe it, but yeah, we go up there, I
Speaker 2: get to meet Bill Clinton and Hillary and Conan says,
Speaker 2: it's the guy who doesn't and he just gives me
Speaker 2: that upside down smile that he had. I really enjoy it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: didn't say a word. And then so we're doing it.
Speaker 2: So he first first, Conan does like ten minutes on
Speaker 2: his own, maybe fifteen even, and he kills, just jokes,
Speaker 2: just what you're supposed to do, and he was fantastic,
Speaker 2: one of the funniest ones I'd ever seen. And then
Speaker 2: he brings me on and I'm like, oh shit, maybe
Speaker 2: and then but I'm killing at first, and nobody's laughing
Speaker 2: harder than Clinton. And I don't know if it's manufactured
Speaker 2: to show he's a good sport, but he literally sounds
Speaker 2: like a donkey. He's just like oh, and Hillary's smiling
Speaker 2: because you know, there was no way she was going
Speaker 2: to laugh at this nonsense, but she's smiling and enjoying it.
Speaker 2: And then we get to a point where so this
Speaker 2: is back when I was younger and I had a
Speaker 2: chip on my shoulder. Creatively, I was like, we're not
Speaker 2: just gonna go there and kiss their ass. You know.
Speaker 2: We got to do some some jokes that are a
Speaker 2: little edgy, you know, so we write this joke. So
Speaker 2: the premise was Clinton finds out that he's on c SPAN,
Speaker 2: that the show's on se SPAN. He's like, Oh, that's
Speaker 2: like a tree in the forest. I can say anything
Speaker 2: I want. I inhaled everybody, you know, all that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff. And it's killing. And so he's making more
Speaker 2: confessions and then there was this joke and Conan and
Speaker 2: I remember right before we went on, Colin was like
Speaker 2: should we do this? Is this too much? And I
Speaker 2: was like, why don't you call an audible? Because I
Speaker 2: was like, then this was the joke. It was like
Speaker 2: Clinton saying like I got high with Will and Nelson
Speaker 2: on the roof of the Kremlin. I don't even remember
Speaker 2: what the context was, but it was one of his
Speaker 2: confessions and it made sense comedically in nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 2: So I was like, I think it'd be good to do,
Speaker 2: you know, an edgy joke, but maybe you call an audible.
Speaker 2: And he's like, I don't want to call an audible.
Speaker 2: I don't want to deal with that. This is like
Speaker 2: he's at the White House Correspondence dinner. Let's just commit
Speaker 2: to it, Conan says, so we do it. And then
Speaker 2: later Dick Cavott, who's in the audience, comes up to
Speaker 2: Conan and he says, when you made that joke about
Speaker 2: Willie Nelson and the Kremlin, Hillary's face went from doctor
Speaker 2: jekyled mister Hyde and literally we bombed the rest of
Speaker 2: the way. I could not recover from that moment. That's interesting,
Speaker 2: and it's because of Hillary's face, I guarantee it, because everybody,
Speaker 2: well then it's like you're watching this guy being imitated
Speaker 2: to his face, and everybody's gonna be transfixed on their reaction.
Speaker 2: And Bill was he hawing, and that was great. And
Speaker 2: then but Hillary, I was told, she just did that,
Speaker 2: just looked down, just like when's this gonna be over
Speaker 2: kind of thing, and it killed the room. And and
Speaker 2: the saddest thing is that, like, I was almost done,
Speaker 2: but then it was like, and then we're gonna have
Speaker 2: Jimmy Carter come on, and my friend tom Agna, another writer,
Speaker 2: came on with Jimmy as Jimmy Carter with a gigantic
Speaker 2: smile because he had big teeth and all that. And
Speaker 2: it always killed at Conan, and we thought, oh, this
Speaker 2: will be a great topper. But they wanted us, they
Speaker 2: wanted us out of there, and it's like we still
Speaker 2: have fucking Jimmy Carter to bring on. Yeah. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: I just knew it. And but I knew Conan wasn't
Speaker 2: gonna call an audible, and we just like labored through
Speaker 2: it and they politely applauded. But yes, that was. That
Speaker 2: was so I I got to experience this and this
Speaker 2: was funny and I did minutes. Yeah, so I did it.
Speaker 2: The last of George Bush. Wow. So as I go
Speaker 2: into this year, the year after Colbert are two years after.
Speaker 1: Years after the year after Steven the rich little, I
Speaker 1: think they overcorrected, you know what I mean. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: Steven went hard one way.
Speaker 2: He went hard, and let me just tell you and
Speaker 2: I'll he I helped him a little with that. He
Speaker 2: read all the jokes to me. I gave him a couple,
Speaker 2: and I was so excited. I was like, this is
Speaker 2: gonna kill because no one's ever made these jokes at
Speaker 2: their face while complimenting them. That was that was. He
Speaker 2: was playing the bill O'Reilly sunk up Republican. So I thought, oh,
Speaker 2: this is the smartest way to do this. But of
Speaker 2: course George Bush gave him nothing, never smiled, and he
Speaker 2: was just in a well from the moment he made
Speaker 2: his first joke. But I was very proud of him anyway.
Speaker 1: He went from going for it, Yes, he admitted, so
Speaker 1: the year I do it. So it's it's two years
Speaker 1: after Steven has done that. Yeah, it's is still in power, right,
Speaker 1: And they they had rich little the year before, and
Speaker 1: that no one seemed to be bothered.
Speaker 2: With that at all.
Speaker 1: And then the before you know, whether everyone stands up
Speaker 1: in the dais or sets up on the dais, right.
Speaker 1: So there's that little reception room beforehand, and I'm standing
Speaker 1: there talking to the president of the United that had
Speaker 1: just become a citizen. And I'm talking to the President
Speaker 1: of the United States, and I had in my head
Speaker 1: stuff I was going to do, and I had one
Speaker 1: joke that I was going to do at the top,
Speaker 1: and we had I'd talked to Ted m'carran and Jonathan Morano,
Speaker 1: where the writers I had been working with their end,
Speaker 1: and they I said, should we do this joke? It's
Speaker 1: just my writers, right, So I'm like, should we do this?
Speaker 1: The joke was just like, it's great to be such
Speaker 1: as steam company and the time this was a batter
Speaker 1: joke than it is not, but it's good, nice to
Speaker 1: be in such a steam company. These people will not
Speaker 1: be seen together again until the trial.
Speaker 2: That was the joke.
Speaker 1: It was not a great joke, but it was a
Speaker 1: good joke then. And I said, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: do that joke. It's the first joke up. Joke was
Speaker 1: the first joke up. Yeah, And I thought, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to do that joke because if I do that joke,
Speaker 1: they're going to think that. And I didn't do that joke,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad I didn't. Yeah, but I was. I
Speaker 1: remember thinking I.
Speaker 2: Wish you had been around when I started the Dana
Speaker 2: Carvey Show with breastfeeding Bill Clinton. Don't start with that.
Speaker 2: Don't start with that. All right, we gotta go. I
Speaker 2: need to say one thing I just if you don't mind,
Speaker 2: I really want to say how much I appreciate I've
Speaker 2: already talked about how much I liked your show, but
Speaker 2: something you did really struck me back when you did it,
Speaker 2: which was in two thousand, I think right around then,
Speaker 2: maybe when Britney Spears was having all those problems. So
Speaker 2: you came out and and you, in a very humane way,
Speaker 2: just explained why you can't make these kind of jokes.
Speaker 2: And I just really it really struck me in a
Speaker 2: in a huge way because I have very few lines
Speaker 2: that I won't cross when I do comedy, obviously, but
Speaker 2: one of them was always I never wanted to make
Speaker 2: fun of addicts, and they never wanted to make fun
Speaker 2: of people who were struggling with something that was beyond
Speaker 2: their control. And I remember one time, Conan they wanted
Speaker 2: me to play Nick Nolty after that mug shot. They
Speaker 2: wanted me to do Nick Nolty's mugshots, and I said,
Speaker 2: I don't. I really don't want to do this. I
Speaker 2: just feel bad for the guy, and and Conan was like,
Speaker 2: you don't want to do it. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's certain things I really don't like to do. I've
Speaker 2: broken the rule a few times.
Speaker 1: But I've broken my own rule and I regret having
Speaker 1: done it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, me too. But the Nick Nolty thing that
Speaker 2: was so what was so funny about it was literally
Speaker 2: like a week and a half later, the Oscars come
Speaker 2: on and my comedy idol Steve Martin is the host,
Speaker 2: and one of the punchlines was basically giant Nick Nolty
Speaker 2: mug shot right behind him, the whole world laughing Nick
Speaker 2: Nolty's mug shot with Steve Martin's approof line on. I just, uh,
Speaker 2: it's just some things are just too big to pass up.
Speaker 2: I guess that was. That was. It was a very
Speaker 2: funny mug shot. It was a very funny mug shot.
Speaker 2: So I don't blame Steve Martin, but it was like,
Speaker 2: but anyway, Brittany was too big to pass up for
Speaker 2: everybody except you, and I really really respected you for that.
Speaker 2: That's thanks man.
Speaker 1: Well, I respect you for the body of work. But
Speaker 1: I think, if I'm honest, maybe the.
Speaker 2: Thing for me has always been the dog. Yeah, the dog.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's going to be on my tombstone. This
Speaker 2: is the way, you know, this is a lovely this
Speaker 2: is a lovely tombstone for me to poop on this. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you'll probably say, I Mike.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like, you know, you go, you go, Cashmir,
Speaker 1: you got you know, well and roll, but Stairway to Heaven.
Speaker 2: I know. Although I'm really proud of Leo, I don't
Speaker 2: know if you've seen it. It's I've not seen Leo.
Speaker 2: You should see it. You should see it. It's I'm
Speaker 2: really proud of It's a different kind of thing. But
Speaker 2: it's Sandler and Bill Burr on Netflix. It's a kid's
Speaker 2: animated movie, but adults will like it. And and I
Speaker 2: have it's a very popular movie. Uh, I have kids,
Speaker 2: You have kids. I do, but my kids are older. Yeah,
Speaker 2: my kids are older. Way is your kids? They're sixteen now, Well,
Speaker 2: my younger ones are sixteen.
Speaker 1: My youngest one is thirteen and a half.
Speaker 2: Oh, he'll like it. Going on forty fifty. Yeah, no,
Speaker 2: I get it. He might think he's too old Ford,
Speaker 2: but he's not. It's about fifth grade class. It's about
Speaker 2: a jad class pat who's been in the same classroom
Speaker 2: for seventy years and he's just enters every season, every
Speaker 2: new year with cynicism like, ah, here comes you know,
Speaker 2: here comes the tween queens. They think they're better than everybody. Know.
Speaker 2: This guy's this is the always sick and should have
Speaker 2: stayed comb kid, you know. And it's him and Bill
Speaker 2: burb just being very cynical. But over the course of
Speaker 2: the movie, he finds out that he thinks he's going
Speaker 2: to die, and then he wants to escape and you know,
Speaker 2: go see the everglades and catch flies. And then he
Speaker 2: gets caught at a kid's house and accidentally speaks, and
Speaker 2: then they end up talking, and he ends up giving
Speaker 2: the kid. The kid opens up to him because it's
Speaker 2: just a lizard, and she feels comfortable talking to him.
Speaker 2: And then he actually is capable of giving advice, he realizes,
Speaker 2: because he's seen every kind of kid. And then he
Speaker 2: becomes addicted to helping the kids. And it sounds kind
Speaker 2: of serious, but it's very silly and funny, but I'm
Speaker 2: just really really proud of it. I will watch it
Speaker 2: in the next day or two. No, no rush, let
Speaker 2: me and then then I'll call you with no let
Speaker 2: me please see Abut thanks Bud, all right, yeah,