WEBVTT - Contact with Kelly McCormack 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:03.920 On the Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies have 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:07.520 women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:11.879 husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef in 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:17.720 best start changing it with the bec Del Cast. Hello listeners, 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.759 it's Jamie and Caitlin and we're coming to you from 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:25.720 the future. Here's the deal. We recorded this episode a 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:27.840 while ago. We recorded it, I think a few months 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:32.240 ago now, and because this is an episode about space, 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:36.199 we referenced the potential of a billionaire space race and 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:38.879 how ridiculous that is in the episode. But when we 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:42.400 recorded it, it wasn't quite as full blown a thing 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.600 as it is now. So if it sounds a little off, 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.880 that is the reason why. But while we've got you here, 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.880 uh future Jamie and future Caitlin. Uh yeah, we just 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.880 wanted to sort of bring everybody, I guess up to speed. 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:00.520 You probably know. Unfortunately, because billionaire, I was sure, do 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:02.240 you get a lot of press? Oh? I thought we 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.800 were going to be talking about space, jam a new legacy? 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.360 Is that not the space that you saw it? But 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.840 do you did you? Is it like as completely bizarre 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.280 as it looks? Because it looks so bizarre Why is 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:18.440 a mystery machine in it? Why are the people from 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:23.360 a clockwork orange in it? Right? Yeah, because the movie 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:27.400 is more concerned about reminding you that other Warner Brothers 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:31.679 intellectual properties exist than it is about telling a story 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:35.560 that makes any sense. The plot like is borderline incomprehensible. 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:39.959 The movie is just like one frame of sensory overload 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:45.120 after another. It's unwatchable. Is it good bad or is 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:49.760 it just like No, it's just a bummer. I want 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.800 to I'll still watch it because I have HBO Max, 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:56.520 but like, it just looks bad bad. Oh god, so 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.120 depressing it Whenever whenever a movie is like we're just 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.520 um here for I P, it's like, well, Jesus, not 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:05.960 not worth it. It was very disappointed. Was hoping for 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.400 a fun you know, because the first Space Jam is fun, 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:13.679 a classic. This one is not. Yeah. I I think 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.280 the only more depressing space topic than the fact that 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.600 Space Jam two sucks is that the fact that there's 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.560 a three way billionaire white guy's space race going on 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:26.480 right now. It's the most just dystopian thing in the world. 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:30.880 It's between three of the biggest losers on the planet 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.840 that like it shouldn't be illegal to kill them in 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:40.160 Minecraft of course. Um, and those losers are Elon Musk, 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:44.320 Jeff Bezos, and Richard Branson. So yeah, that is now 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:46.799 officially a thing. Richard Branson has already been to space. 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.760 It goes without saying that, you know it. We talked 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:51.440 about this in the episode a little bit as well. 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:55.000 But the fact that, you know, exploring space is not 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:58.919 the problem here. I understand human curiosity. It makes sense 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.840 that people want to floor space. It's the fact that 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:06.360 these motherfucker's are going to space for PR instead of 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:10.760 curing world hunger, which they literally could do. And so 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.680 it is just like disgusting and embarrassing in every potential way. 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.280 I wanted to just read a quick quote, uh that 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.720 came out in July from a piece that I really 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.640 liked that I felt like broke this down pretty well 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.480 in uh, oh my god, Jacobin magazine. I've never tried 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:32.359 to say that out loud. The writer is Luke Savage, 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:38.160 and he says this quote more straightforwardly. Extreme wealth in 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.400 the capitalist age is by definition engaged in a constant 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:45.600 and desperate scramble for new sources of ethical legitimacy. Billionaires 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:48.000 need a public facing reason to exist, and for the 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.280 time being at least, owning the rights to bits of 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:54.839 paper and expropriating surplus value still doesn't quite cut the mustard. If, 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.400 on the other hand, plutocratic pursuits and the impossibly decadent 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.960 lifestyle surrounding them can be packaged as extensions of a 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.360 progressive human project, so much the better. The likes of 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:08.960 private islands, luxury estates, and Silicon Valley sweatshops are now 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:12.000 justifying themselves with all the pomp and sober purpose of 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:15.280 Neil Armstrong taking his first step onto the surface of 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:21.160 the moon unquote and um, you know five dollar words aside. 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.839 I feel like that that kind of like puts together. 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:28.680 You know. The issue isn't a curiosity in space. It's 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:34.320 repackaging billionaires going to space for attention and also for 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:39.159 again personal profit in the effort to literally colonize space. 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:44.760 That is the problem. Uh so bad time pr wise 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.640 for space. But bravely we're doing a contact episode anyways. Yeah, 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:52.440 Jodie Foster going to space. Fine, Jeff Bezo is going 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:56.520 to space. No thinks that's my Wouldn't it be interesting 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.800 if there was a little accident to be wild, if 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.719 this episode came up, and then it was like, it's 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:04.880 just I feel too powerful at this point because I 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.719 did call j Lo and ben Affleck getting back together, 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.559 so I have to be careful. So what I'm saying 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:17.120 is what if the spaceship blew up? So the interesting look. Okay, 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:23.919 enjoy the episode. The cast. Hey Jamie, Hey Caitlin. No, 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:27.040 it's not Caitlin, it's it's your father. But it's actually 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:30.560 also not your father. It's it's an I'm an alien. 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.440 Oh my god, this is so confusing. I hope we're 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:36.760 on an island that looks like a screen saver. Yes 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:39.800 we are, but actually that's what it looks like to you. 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.840 But actually we're we're in we're on a star. We're 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.200 near a star. We're on a planet. We're in the sky, 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:49.360 on a planet near the star Vega. Oh okay, that 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:53.120 tracks for me. Oh and have you just you just haven't? 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.440 Why haven't you reached out before? Now? I like how 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:58.760 he's just like, that's just kind of how it works here. 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:04.520 You're like, sir, excuse me, I texted you twenty six 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:09.800 years ago and you're just now responding. Rude. That would 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:11.960 have been that would have that explanation in that scene 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:13.279 would have made way more sense to me. Have like 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.960 time works so differently. I just got here, it feels like. 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:19.760 But instead he pulls like kind of you know, a 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:23.359 classically male thing to do would just be like I 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:28.440 don't know, I just I don't know. It seemed like 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.560 you're fun. See it was a what's a big deal? 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.280 This is a factel cast? Uh have j B loft I. 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.280 My name is Caitlin Darante and this is our podcast 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.280 where we take a look at your favorite or least 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:47.159 favorite movies with an intersectional feminist lens. And today we're 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.920 taking a little a little pod all the way to space, 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:56.200 a little pod cast. This is our little Yeah, this 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.680 is when. That's how the way that Jodie Foster feels 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:00.720 when she gets into the pod, how I feel when 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:04.440 we press record. I'm what did she say? She's like, 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:09.160 I'm good to go, I'm okay to go, I'm okay 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:13.320 to there. That's what Caitlyn and I are doing for 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.960 like ten minutes before every eppisode starts, and we're getting 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.520 more and more afraid, and then there's people in another 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.720 room that are like, that's what. That's what Aristotle was 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.720 like before before we you know, it's a whole thing, 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.680 and then we record for eighteen hours, but it just 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:38.240 an audio never saves. Yeah, it's just static too soon. Listen, listen. 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:42.160 Things happen listeners, and and sometimes audio corrupt. Said, you 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:44.240 live and you'll learn. But this is our that that's 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.120 not going to happen today. That is not going to 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:51.160 happen today. Today we're talking about contact and we have 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:54.720 an incredible guest with us here. We certainly do. Kelly 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:58.680 is a filmmaker, actor, writer and producer and actor on 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:04.000 the film Sugar Dad The It's Kelly McCormick. Welcome Wormle 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.720 all Ready to go high Go? What was it okay 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:10.960 to go? Okay? To go? Okay? To go okay? To go? 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.440 Quite literally, how I feel entering a zoom chat At 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:17.760 all times I'm like, am I ready to go? Am 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.920 I not ready to go? It's horrific. Like when you're 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.680 in the waiting room you have to like confirm your video, 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:25.840 You're like, oh, I guess that is how I look 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.320 okay to go? Yeah, Like the series of questions it 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:31.720 asks you where you're expecting for your video to pop 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.240 up and it become your new reality, and it just 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.360 says weight we want to know if your audio is working, 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:38.320 and you're like, it's I'm okay to go, and you're like, 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:40.839 what we need to know if your video is working? 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.640 I am okay to go, like I need to go. 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.120 It's truly words to live by. Honestly. Yeah, um, you 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.920 know what, Jamie, we forgot to describe what the Bechtel 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.080 test is. Oh my gosh, we were not okay to go. 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:57.840 It turns out we after all that to do, we 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.320 were not okay to go. Well, we can tell them now. 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:06.040 It's unfortunately, this isn't rocket science, and it's okay if 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:10.120 we suck up just a little bit. Yes. The Bechtel 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:13.920 Test is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.240 sometimes called the Bechtel Whilst Test. I'd like how we 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.680 have like it's just like I don't even have to 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:20.720 think about it when I describe it. It's just like 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.120 it's true anyway. It's a media metric that requires, for 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:30.480 our purposes our rendition of the test, two people of 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.319 a marginalized gender have names, have to speak to each 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.320 other about something other than a man for a two 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:41.120 line exchange of dialogue or like for us, it's a 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:46.319 meaningful conversation that might impact the narrative in some way. Right, So, 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.160 you know, not every movie is going to pass. I 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.320 guess we'll just see. We'll have to set does I 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:55.800 actually did. I as time goes on, As we talked 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.080 about all the time, I always like, we're always forgetting 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.320 to pay attention to whether it pass because it's you know, 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.360 it's like not the most important thing we discussed by 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:05.960 a mile. But I did pay I don't I was. 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.840 I was on my toes for this one the same. Yeah. 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.080 I think probably. I think it probably is when there's 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:15.040 only like two female characters, you pay closer attention because 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:19.720 you're like, oh, I just I just wonder right right? Yes, So, yes, 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.720 today's movie is Contact Kelly. What's your what's your relationship 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.960 with this movie? What's your history with this I have 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:31.360 a really emotional history with this, which I was reliving 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.360 last night when I rewatched the film for the first time, 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:40.680 not on VHS, which was the last film. Yeah, I 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.200 it's actually sort of special. And the more I thought 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.880 about it, you know, watching the film and musing over it, 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:49.120 I was like, I guess that is a pretty special connection. Um. 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:53.080 I grew up with a very large family of many many, 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.560 many cousins, and we went up to this wilderness sort 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.000 of space with no electricity and no hot running water 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:04.360 every summer, and we were super nerds, like absolute super nerds. 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.000 We played dungeons and dragons, We played magic cards, we 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:11.360 played Fifth Age. I read pretty much exclusively science fiction 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:16.200 and fantasy from age like ten to now. That was 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:18.079 all I sort of like, no, I guess I've read 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:24.240 other things now, but but that was are like the 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.720 lifeblood of our family dynamic. That's what we talked about 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:31.439 the most. And I had eleven older cousins that were 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:35.960 all male. That was the first female born like cousin 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:38.440 of the group of people of the of the major 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:43.640 super family. And one of my older cousins, Kevin, was 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:50.040 our smartest, most um shrewd minded, sci Fi obsessed cousin. 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.120 And and for people who have cousins, like naming cousins 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.160 as these like icons, I feel like we'll feel familiar, 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.599 you know, like these archetypes, like everyone everyone has a 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:06.120 sci fi cousin, everyone has and he he was the 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.760 one who ran all of our fifth Age campaigns and 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.240 are which is sort of a hybrid of or not 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.920 a hybrid and extension of Dungeons and Dragons that plays 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.120 with the Dragon Lines books. And he was the one 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.600 who would be like the game master of all of 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.960 our magic card games. And he was the guy who 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.240 we all sort of looked up to for the sci 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.160 fi fantasy um like advice, and he was the one 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.400 who was like the last word on all of it. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:37.480 And he started reading Carl Sagan's book Contact, and um, 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.000 I remember him. I was quite young. I was like twelve, 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.120 and I remember him reading this copy that had been 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.600 up on the island in a stack of books that 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.760 has probably seventy five years old. And he's reading it 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.960 and he's talking about it, and he's talking about transcendental 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.520 numbers and how much math there is in it, and 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:58.960 talking about pie and and and I was really into math, 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:01.320 and I was really into science and stuff, and obviously 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.440 science fiction. And I kind of got this feeling that 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.040 if I could understand Contact, if I could read Contact 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.960 and understand it, then maybe Kevin would like talk. You know, 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:13.680 I was so young, but I just I looked up 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.600 to him so much. Well, maybe he'll maybe he'll talk 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.080 to me. And I'll and I'll be like one of 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.960 the one of the smarter cousins. So he had this 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.240 copy that he read in the corner of the cabin 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:27.600 and then when he went to bed, or when he 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.000 put it down, I would secretly pick it up and 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:33.600 try and like understand because the yeah, the Carl Sagan 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:38.319 book is it's much more. It's it's technically hard science fiction. 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.880 It's sort of classified in that, um, really logic based, 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:46.080 math based, sort of Isaac asimof school of science fiction 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:50.480 rather than like the philosophical what is philosophical but the 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.600 other end of the spectrum, which would be like Orwellian 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:57.679 sci fi, which is a little more digestible sociology. Um. 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.600 So I read the book, or I know I tried 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.440 to understand it. I think I did, and then I 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:08.160 begged my mom to rent it from Blockbuster. I think 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.360 I think it was a Blockbuster rent and I think 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:14.280 we just paid that late fee so many times because 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.240 I think I lost it or stole it away because 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:19.960 I watched it so many times. Um, and uh, I 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:24.160 haven't seen it since since before last night, and last 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.400 night I watched it and there was so many things 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:31.640 I forgot. I guess conflated from the book, mainly Matthew McConaughey. 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:36.640 I completely wrote out, my little feminist brain wrote out 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:41.600 Matthew McConney in the nineties and early two straight out 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:45.720 of that movie. Honestly, were you wrong? I was not. 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.040 I it's very interesting to sort of now I can 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.560 kind of parse how it diverges from the book and 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.840 he is certainly. I mean, we'll get into it, but 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.680 I mean, let's get into it. Yeah, I'm I'm so 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.640 curious to hear about because I didn't do too much 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.360 research on the book, but the Matthew McConaughey character and 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.680 storyline just waked the studio notes to me. I'm very 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.720 curious of how much of that is is the case? Yeah, well, 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.400 I did read the book when I was somewhere between 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:19.680 twelve and fifteen, but from my memory, um, there was 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.680 so First of all, let's just I just want to 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.720 say Jodie Foster, like I just want to say first name, Jody, 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:30.000 last nime Foster. Let's just start with that, because I mean, 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:32.360 now I can look back on the book and I 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.840 just see her face and that's imbuing the text with 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.680 such marvel that I'm really excited to sort of revisit 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.360 that book. But as I remember it, there are a 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.960 couple of weird alterations from the book. Number one, her 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:50.840 mother is not dead, And uh, I am Canadian, so 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.360 I will say I've had a couple of conversations with 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:57.520 Canadian filmmakers and American filmmakers about how fascinating it is 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:02.280 that American studio movies kill off mothers and Canadian movies 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:07.680 kill off fathers. It's like a very interesting I guess 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.040 if you look at Disney movies, is like the most 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:14.040 obvious priganic, sort of big marquee version of that. But 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.400 there always seems to be this dead mother, absent mother. 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.760 She dies in the first ten minutes, um, and the 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:22.720 mother in this film is sort of no different. But 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:28.480 in the book she is this constant character um kind 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.600 of pushing dr Ellie. As I believe it again, thirteen 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.280 year old brain told your old brain, pushing dr Ellie 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:36.640 to make a choice between the personal and the professional 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.040 at all times. And she has this Yeah, she has 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.600 this father that she idolizes, but then he dies and 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.920 then her stepdad is not as good and then the 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.640 whole story you know, kind of follows and then there 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.160 is this kind of religious element to it where she 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.800 meets a theologian and he has opinions about what the 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.240 mission is, but he's not a love interest. I don't 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.800 think think she has a lot. I think she has 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.879 a love interest with another astronaut I believe, or another scientist. 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.560 But and then five people go to the mission. It's 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:13.119 not just her um as I remember it. And and 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.920 also the more maddening and we'll get into it again, 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:19.720 but the more maddening aspects of the film I find 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:24.159 is that this whole like you, where's your proof, where's 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.040 your proof? Like you didn't you crazy woman? Like you 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.560 know that you know in quotation marks that you know, 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.119 you're you're you're just a delusional and you're hysterical and 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.720 you don't know. And this has just been one big delusion. 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.720 And then at the end, you know, you see, I 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:41.480 guess we're allowed to do spoilers here, and people have 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:45.840 seen content. I'm about to spoil the whole dang thing. 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.400 But there's this incredible through line in the book which 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.320 I remembered and thought was in the movie up until 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.880 last night, which is that when she's young, and again 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:00.919 I'm butchering this So for all the scientists and mathematicians 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:06.320 and hard science fiction fans like, please please don't like 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:12.240 admonish me to Kelly alone. I am a fairly intense 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.440 nerd and science fiction fan, so I feel like I 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:19.320 can pull my weight. But she, when she's young, she 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.640 has this idea that Pie, you know, the three point 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.480 one nine number that goes into eternity that you sort 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:28.800 of skip over in math class like when you're young, 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:34.280 that it's not that it's not transcendental or it is transcendental, 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:38.520 which means it's not algebraic. And then something a bunch 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:40.560 of stuff happens. This is something she thinks of when 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:42.920 she's a kid. When she's young, she's like, I think 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.159 this about Pie. I think this about this transcendental number. 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.720 And then at the end of the book she figures 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:53.120 out that the transcendental number in fact is a massive circle, 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.720 and somehow that circle is the proof that she actually 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:01.080 did go and that is the made So she finds 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:06.200 proof that she went wow yeah, which was much more 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:11.280 cathartic than how we ended contact the Hollywood film. But well, 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.240 Matthew McConaughey believes her, So I guess that's good enough. 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:19.920 That moment at the end where like, for some reason, 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.520 all she comes out of the courthouse or the Senate 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:27.080 hearing or whatever, and all of these reporters aren't asking 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:30.400 her questions, and then suddenly Matthew McConaughey's character is more 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:36.280 famous than her in that moment. Absolutely not. It's so bizarre. 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.720 She's all like huddled under a blanket, like, oh no, 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.560 I'm I'm so weak. I just had an existential crisis 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:47.360 and then we just yelled at me. And then everyone's like, 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.480 you man, who's right there? What do you believe? And 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.840 it's just like who gives a ship what Matthew McConaughey believed, 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:58.000 And he also like yells over a car. He's like, 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:00.520 I don't know, I think I believe for and he's 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.080 wearing a huge scarf for you're just like, what is 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.040 going on? He has a scarf the size of his head, 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:10.919 like a wild he is. You know, I don't like 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:14.639 talking shit about other actors because I just feel like 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:17.200 it's I mean, I'm an actor, so it's it's hard. 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:19.800 But I think I'm going to talk about mac McConaughey 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:25.280 for a second because I accidentally watched two back to 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:30.400 back Matt mcgonaughy films because my unsurprisingly, my next film 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:34.040 is a sci fi feature. So I was sort of 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:36.800 looking at I wanted to know. I had some questions. 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.960 So I watched, Um, what the hell is it called? 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:44.200 The Christopher Nolan film Andrew Stellar. Yeah. I had never 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.880 seen it, and I just don't think that. I mean, 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.440 Jodie Foster quite literally wipes the floor with him. It's 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:55.120 it's every scene that she's in and it cuts to him, 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:57.840 and he's supposed to emotionally meet her at a place 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.639 he just falls short. And I don't know the whole 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:05.480 god subplot and the faith and the fact that he 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.680 outs her at the Senate when she's trying to when 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:14.159 she's trying to speak for her. Yeah, and then he's like, 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:20.440 guess what I did? Think it was important that you 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:24.120 had faith, so you represented all of humanity which people 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.160 believe in God, which is I don't know if that's 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:29.480 like Hollywood science but it or Hollywood statistics. I don't 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.240 know where that comes from. But and then and then 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:34.640 he's like, oh, actually I did it because I love 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:38.560 you and I don't want you to believe. And I'm like, okay, 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:42.600 so this is the smartest woman. She's quite literally discovered 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:45.240 life on other planets. Like, let's just hold on. Jodie 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:49.000 Foster has just discovered life on other planets, and she 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:52.639 has the opportunity to go communicate with that life, go 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:58.240 communicate in this absolutely pure place of of courage and 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:02.040 adventure and cure you a city and lust for science 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:04.439 and all the right reasons. And is there anything you 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:06.959 can say against Jodie Foster in this film? There is nothing. 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:09.919 And then he's like, but I love you, so I 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.800 want to just keep you the possession of it here, 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:19.719 just like, who are you again? That? So his character 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:28.000 is so annoying and just cutting serious. I'm furious. Yeah, 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:33.560 well we'll talk all about this and his hair every Also, 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:38.240 I've never seen I've never seen less chemistry between two people. 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:42.680 They're kids in front of the Watchington d C. Thing, 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.280 I forget what they're called. They kissed in front of 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:49.480 the Washington d C. Water puddle and it's so you're 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:53.560 just like, what is Can we get Jodie Foster out 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:56.040 of here, get her in the pod, get her away 0:22:56.040 --> 0:23:00.600 from away from Matthew McConaughey. That is everything I thought. 0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:07.560 Get Jody like time to go or I'm good to go. Okay, yeah, 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:12.359 Jenny kissing McConaughey, I'm okay to go. Yeah, I'm okay 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:14.040 to go. I'm writing that on my pad of paper 0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:16.600 beside the computer so that if I need to reference 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:19.199 okay to go later in this podcast, I will be 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:22.439 able to quickly. Everybody, you will be okay to go. 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:29.000 It is. It is shocking how little chemistry they have, 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:32.760 and then there's all these weird, sustained moments where they're 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:35.879 staring at each other for quite longer than would be human, 0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:39.000 and the kisses that you you sort of notice it 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:41.000 they kind of pan to the left and let them 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:43.879 kind of they rack focus really quickly, so you're like, 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:48.480 we don't need to see this, And yeah, every time 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:51.480 they embrace, it's just like, let's get Jodie Foster's head 0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:53.560 on his shoulders to the camera. Can just look at 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:57.600 her because she's so magnificent. Yeah, it was. The chemistry 0:23:57.680 --> 0:24:02.040 was bad, and also he's just he's so problematic. That 0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:05.159 whole character is problematic, and the whole question of you know, 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:09.080 what if Theologian's spaces in the sci fi world and 0:24:09.200 --> 0:24:12.560 challenging her and all of it I mean again, and 0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:15.160 this I can't speak from experience because I, as I mentioned, 0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:18.639 m Canadian and not American. But there was this this site, 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:24.960 this hyper sense of American like god fearing we are 0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:28.520 the ones we speak for this planet moment. And you 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:33.359 get that from so much science fiction. I mean, besides 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:36.359 the remarkable Angela Bassett in this film, this film is 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.560 hell white and hell American and the the I I 0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:43.040 think Jodie Foster has a line that's so brilliant where 0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:46.440 she says, where the where the aliens talk in prime 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:49.720 numbers and she says something like what America now owns 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:53.560 prime numbers? Like no, it's international, math is international. And 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:57.439 that was so great and a kind of uncharacteristic criticism 0:24:57.480 --> 0:25:04.040 of I guess the American base military god complex thing 0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:13.720 I'm gonna I'm gonna get in trouble do not? Okay? Good? Okay? 0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:18.280 So Jamie, what's your relationship in history with this movie? Um? 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:21.760 I had never seen this movie, I think because I 0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:25.600 was I don't know when I would have seen it. 0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:27.480 I think when it came out it definitely would have 0:25:27.520 --> 0:25:31.119 been too long to hold my attention. But it's a 0:25:31.160 --> 0:25:33.360 two and a half hour movie, correct, it is still 0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:38.359 quite long. But I I grew up very my My 0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:43.639 grandfather was and is like a huge Carl Sagan head, 0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:46.800 and I like, growing up, I watched Cosmos with him. 0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:50.520 We had it like the via just tapes, and I yeah, 0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:56.200 so so I'm a fan of the Carl Sagan Expanded Universe. 0:25:56.320 --> 0:26:00.760 But I never actually seen this movie and I I was, 0:26:00.880 --> 0:26:03.960 I honestly like enjoyed it and was more touched by 0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:06.439 it than I was expecting to be. It kind of 0:26:06.480 --> 0:26:08.119 took me off guard because I was like, two and 0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:11.880 a half hour movie from I just don't know. That's 0:26:11.920 --> 0:26:15.320 a gamble, but I thought it was. I mean, there's 0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:19.399 plenty to talk about, um, But in general, I was 0:26:19.520 --> 0:26:24.720 like very captivated. Jodie Foster is like always incredible, but 0:26:24.800 --> 0:26:28.080 she like especially blew me away, and then I'm like, wow, 0:26:28.200 --> 0:26:31.119 not again. I have a very short attention span. Not 0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:33.080 many actors can hold my attention for two and a 0:26:33.119 --> 0:26:37.120 half hours, and she's just incredible. And I also am 0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:39.520 excited to talk about the production history of this movie 0:26:39.560 --> 0:26:44.160 because it's very interesting. Um, what's your history with contact? 0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:49.320 This was a movie that my family had on VHS 0:26:49.440 --> 0:26:54.280 one or two. I think it was only one of them, Brave, 0:26:54.560 --> 0:26:57.879 but it is long enough that I don't know. Now 0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:01.240 I'm not remembering. I'm not remembering because I only watched 0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:04.000 this once, so like it was a movie that like 0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:06.720 my family had, I guess, like maybe my brother watched 0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:10.840 it and my mom, but for some reason, I I 0:27:10.840 --> 0:27:13.720 don't know. This was also the year that Titanic came out, 0:27:13.920 --> 0:27:17.920 so as with many movies, from what to say, I mean, 0:27:18.080 --> 0:27:20.040 this was it. This was a year I didn't have 0:27:20.119 --> 0:27:25.760 eyes for anything but Titanic. So to VHS sets, it 0:27:25.840 --> 0:27:29.720 was definitely Titanic, obviously, but then also I think Meet 0:27:29.800 --> 0:27:33.440 Joe Black. That's the only other movie that I've never seen. 0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:35.280 I don't think anyone in my family ever watched it. 0:27:35.280 --> 0:27:37.080 I don't know if it was a gift or what. 0:27:37.240 --> 0:27:42.160 But Meet Joe Black to VHS. Interesting. Yeah, I truly 0:27:42.200 --> 0:27:45.800 don't remember if contact was a one or two VHS 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:49.240 tape scenario, but I don't remember having it, but I 0:27:49.280 --> 0:27:51.720 was I was too busy watching Titanic all the time 0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:54.679 to pay much attention to Contact. Although I think probably 0:27:54.680 --> 0:27:58.720 when I was like maybe thirteen or fourteen, I watched it, 0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:02.200 and there are two very distinct moments from the movie 0:28:02.440 --> 0:28:06.439 that We're like seared into my brain, and then I 0:28:06.480 --> 0:28:11.639 remembered nothing else. I remembered her dad like materialized, like 0:28:11.720 --> 0:28:15.120 the alien materializing as her dad and talking to her. 0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:18.520 I remember that, and then I remembered the kind of 0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:21.919 twist at the end where I didn't remember that it 0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:26.200 was Angela Bassett, but like the reveal that like eighteen 0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:30.199 hours of static was recorded, she did go on the 0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:34.800 trip to Vega. That is a very satisfying moment. I mean, 0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:39.400 Angela Bassett carries it, but it was I was like, oh, 0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:41.520 because I was so I mean, the proceeding scene was 0:28:41.560 --> 0:28:46.800 so frustrating to watch. But I'm also like, Angela, did 0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:51.920 you contact Jodie Foster and tell her like and confirm this? 0:28:52.440 --> 0:28:55.080 Because we never I don't know if if if Ellie 0:28:55.360 --> 0:28:59.040 knows that, like you know, it's so funny. Those are 0:28:59.040 --> 0:29:02.640 the exact two moments that I remember the most as well, 0:29:02.840 --> 0:29:05.560 like absolutely the dad on the beach and then that 0:29:05.680 --> 0:29:08.840 last moment. But did you tell you there was exactly 0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:12.040 eighteen hours of static? And I had the same reaction. 0:29:12.080 --> 0:29:14.880 I remember finding my mom and being like, did they 0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:18.320 tell her? What do you think? Do you think she 0:29:18.360 --> 0:29:22.400 found out James Woods's reaction is so bizarre too, where 0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:26.800 he's like, oh that is interesting, and you're like, so 0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:29.760 what happened? But it's like, you know, his character is 0:29:29.760 --> 0:29:32.000 not going to be the one to admit that they're wrong. 0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:35.040 But I was like, I hope Angela Bassett stepped up. 0:29:35.080 --> 0:29:37.120 We'll never know, and that could have been a scene 0:29:37.160 --> 0:29:39.719 that passed the Bechdel tests, where you know, if Angela 0:29:39.760 --> 0:29:42.640 Bassett calls Jodie Foster, she's like, hey, I got some 0:29:42.640 --> 0:29:45.520 good news for you. You were gone for eighteen hours 0:29:45.680 --> 0:29:50.080 and we have the proof, you know exactly. Instead, instead, 0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:52.560 all they talked about is finding a dress for some 0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:59.480 sort of to impress Matthew McConaughey. Yeah. But the that 0:29:59.760 --> 0:30:03.960 Jame Woods is reaction, his whole thing, his whole screaming 0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:08.080 at her at that, him getting up. I mean again, 0:30:08.120 --> 0:30:10.520 I don't like talking about actors, but I'm going to 0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:14.200 talk to it about James Woods. It's like, it's extremely 0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:16.840 fair game hundreds at for a game. He is not 0:30:17.080 --> 0:30:20.080 our target, target audience or an allies. So I'm gonna 0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:22.280 say we're gonna talk to it about him, and he's 0:30:22.720 --> 0:30:26.080 he's an unrepentant Republican. He's he's a big and it's 0:30:26.080 --> 0:30:30.800 so he's awful. He's awful, He's awful, and uh, he 0:30:31.000 --> 0:30:34.000 just trying to him, trying to what's the word. There's 0:30:34.000 --> 0:30:37.120 a word for it, eat the umu. There's an acting 0:30:37.120 --> 0:30:40.280 word for sham, acting like chew the scenery. In that 0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:44.240 last scene, he's screaming at her, he's standing up, he's 0:30:44.360 --> 0:30:46.480 yelling at her. He's trying to James Woods the ship 0:30:46.600 --> 0:30:50.240 out of it, and Jodie Foster is just Jodie fostering 0:30:50.400 --> 0:30:53.680 so hard. She's just sitting there, tears in her eyes, 0:30:54.240 --> 0:30:57.280 standing in her strength and her purity and this like 0:30:57.960 --> 0:31:02.000 feeling of of wonder that she's trying to convey in 0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:05.040 this sort of the space between what is real and 0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:06.920 what is not real? What is science, what is faith? 0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:09.600 What is Oh It's just like I remember that scene. 0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:13.520 I remember her choking back tears and having a hard 0:31:13.560 --> 0:31:16.440 time finding the words, and all I wish is she 0:31:16.760 --> 0:31:19.120 hit then said and then I figured out that pie 0:31:19.280 --> 0:31:22.120 is not in fact transcendental, and she did the circle 0:31:22.200 --> 0:31:24.960 and all this stuff it's in the book. But yeah, 0:31:25.000 --> 0:31:28.360 that moment with James Woods where he's badgering her it's 0:31:28.400 --> 0:31:30.800 not even and you're like, how did you get so 0:31:30.880 --> 0:31:34.560 much screen time this damn movie? Like you're who are you? Yeah? Why? 0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:39.200 Like get rid of James Wood's bringing more Angela Bassett? 0:31:39.480 --> 0:31:44.840 Like anyway, um, let me do the recap of the 0:31:45.000 --> 0:31:50.800 movie and then we'll get even further into the discussion. Actually, 0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:53.760 let's take a quick break first and then we'll come 0:31:53.760 --> 0:32:04.080 back to recap and we're back. Okay, So okay, you 0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:07.360 know the very end of Men in Black, where like 0:32:07.400 --> 0:32:10.760 the camera keeps like pulling out from New York City 0:32:10.880 --> 0:32:14.560 and then like the US and then Planet Earth and 0:32:14.560 --> 0:32:17.200 then the Solar System, and then it turns out that 0:32:17.200 --> 0:32:21.840 the galaxy is one of several tiny little marbles that 0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:25.320 aliens are playing with, and then you realize how small 0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:29.560 and insignificant you are. The way Men in Black ends 0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:34.280 is exactly how Contact opens. So that's my first brilliant observation. 0:32:34.440 --> 0:32:36.280 My point of reference. There was the end of How 0:32:36.320 --> 0:32:38.640 the Grinch Still Christmas, when you find out the whole 0:32:38.680 --> 0:32:42.720 movie took place on a snowflake. Jim Carrey lives on 0:32:42.760 --> 0:32:49.360 a snowflake. Amazing. Then we meet Ellie, a young girl 0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:52.480 who is sending out radio transmissions and trying to see 0:32:52.560 --> 0:32:55.200 how far she can reach. She lives with her dad, 0:32:55.360 --> 0:32:59.160 baby Jenna Malone. Oh my gosh, I love Genna Malone. 0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:01.320 That is who that is, isn't it? That did not 0:33:01.440 --> 0:33:05.080 even register for me. Yeah. Then we cut to Ellie, 0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:08.840 who has grown up to be Jodie Foster. She is 0:33:08.920 --> 0:33:13.400 now an astronomer trying to make contact with intelligent life 0:33:13.440 --> 0:33:18.560 elsewhere in the universe. She's working on this project called Steady, 0:33:18.720 --> 0:33:23.160 the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, with a few colleagues, most 0:33:23.200 --> 0:33:28.280 notably Kent. And then one day she meets Palmer Joss 0:33:28.360 --> 0:33:33.440 That is Matthew McConaughey. First of all, what name? What 0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:35.680 I name? I think that is a name from the 0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:38.400 book though I'm going to say that now, Joss. I 0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:40.920 feel like I read and I was like, yeah, that's 0:33:40.960 --> 0:33:45.600 a book name. It's very much a book name. It's 0:33:45.600 --> 0:33:48.520 a book name. I have the book synopsis in front 0:33:48.560 --> 0:33:51.040 of me because I was so, I'm so interested in 0:33:51.080 --> 0:33:53.400 like the differences you're responding, Kelly. So I'll try to 0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:58.479 try to follow along ecually where things really go awry. 0:33:58.760 --> 0:34:02.440 So Palmer Joss is a theologian. He's trying to interview 0:34:02.840 --> 0:34:07.000 Ellie's boss, this guy Drumlin played by Tom Skarrett, who 0:34:07.120 --> 0:34:11.160 is an asshole. Then Ellie and Palmer they look at 0:34:11.200 --> 0:34:15.560 the stars together, they kiss, they have sex, and then 0:34:15.600 --> 0:34:19.160 we learn via their pillow talk, as well as some 0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:22.600 flashbacks that Ellie's dad died when she was nine years old. 0:34:22.960 --> 0:34:25.839 And then one of the most the mellow drama of 0:34:25.880 --> 0:34:31.759 that sequence slow Motion Baby. General, it was a lot 0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:35.680 very very nineties where it's like, oh, the slow motion 0:34:35.760 --> 0:34:40.279 trauma scene, I know this film convention, yeah, or the 0:34:40.480 --> 0:34:45.280 just general nineties convention of kids parents dying and kids 0:34:45.320 --> 0:34:49.480 having to deal with that. That's a big nineties early 0:34:49.520 --> 0:34:52.160 two thousand, like, let's see, this kid's gonna have this 0:34:52.239 --> 0:34:55.560 kid's going to be an orphan, right, full on orphan. Yeah, 0:34:55.680 --> 0:34:58.120 And yet we're not going to address how she survives, 0:34:58.480 --> 0:35:02.479 who raises, how she has money. I mean, maybe she's 0:35:02.520 --> 0:35:06.359 just a very perculous, privileged white girl. And then there's 0:35:06.400 --> 0:35:08.759 sort of like it has like glean of nineties movies 0:35:08.760 --> 0:35:10.640 where they're like, she's white, so we don't have to 0:35:10.680 --> 0:35:14.640 explain her cultural background. The middle class sort of kind 0:35:14.680 --> 0:35:18.960 of exists. It's just a general glean of she's fine, 0:35:19.400 --> 0:35:22.640 she's like gonna be fine. She she was both of 0:35:22.680 --> 0:35:25.000 her parents dide she has a huge house. I don't 0:35:25.000 --> 0:35:28.840 know that was like especially glaring to me where I 0:35:28.840 --> 0:35:30.920 don't know what this character's name is. He shows up 0:35:30.920 --> 0:35:34.680 in a little bit Mr. Mr Plot billionaire or like 0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:39.960 whoa yeah the plot man. Plot Man summarizes her life 0:35:39.960 --> 0:35:43.080 to us for some reason, but also skips over like 0:35:43.160 --> 0:35:45.440 how she who she lived with, what she did, how 0:35:45.520 --> 0:35:50.480 she survived between like age ten in college, Mr Plot, 0:35:50.560 --> 0:35:53.680 I swear to god, some aunt is just like eye 0:35:53.760 --> 0:35:56.040 rolling and like just just sitting there and being like 0:35:56.160 --> 0:35:59.520 I flip and raised you. You're not even gonna mention 0:35:59.640 --> 0:36:06.359 me nice family member? Erasure not nice? Right? Or did 0:36:06.400 --> 0:36:10.960 she grow up in the foster system, the Jody Foster system. 0:36:11.040 --> 0:36:14.759 She would have had to there's no way run it she, 0:36:14.880 --> 0:36:18.080 I will say. As much as I despise this Palmer 0:36:18.160 --> 0:36:22.360 Joss love thing that pops up like once every half 0:36:22.360 --> 0:36:25.680 hour or so in this movie, I did appreciate that 0:36:25.760 --> 0:36:33.440 Ellie initiated their contact. Shall we? I feel like you 0:36:33.440 --> 0:36:34.879 don't you don't get a lot of that. You don't 0:36:34.880 --> 0:36:38.919 get a lot of initiation from a female character where 0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:40.759 she's just like, do you want to get out of here. 0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:44.320 I was like, all right, Jody, good for you. Yeah, okay, 0:36:44.360 --> 0:36:46.360 go let's do it. And then she has sex with 0:36:46.440 --> 0:36:49.920 him and leaves him high and drawing. He's like, what 0:36:50.800 --> 0:36:53.960 that's another thing, you know, Like she she it's on 0:36:54.040 --> 0:36:56.080 her terms. The first time, it's on her terms. The 0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:58.400 second time he literally tries to possess her and stop 0:36:58.400 --> 0:37:00.600 her from living out her dreams. But the first time 0:37:01.320 --> 0:37:04.960 it's great. It's great. She's like, I just want to 0:37:05.000 --> 0:37:07.680 have sex with you. It's not moralized. They're not like, 0:37:07.960 --> 0:37:11.680 you know, it's it's actually sort of breathtaking lee un 0:37:11.760 --> 0:37:14.640 moralized that she's just doing this. And then she sees 0:37:14.640 --> 0:37:16.600 his number and she's like, you know what, I'm going 0:37:16.640 --> 0:37:19.120 to leave this number here. I don't need to I 0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:21.040 don't need to keep this in my pocket and hope 0:37:21.040 --> 0:37:23.400 for something else. I'm just gonna And you know that 0:37:23.480 --> 0:37:25.400 was those were good times before the internet and for 0:37:25.520 --> 0:37:28.960 social media, where you could just forget the person's paper 0:37:29.040 --> 0:37:31.120 that wrote their number on it, and then they can 0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:36.040 just disappear them from your life. Like how easy she 0:37:36.120 --> 0:37:38.279 leaves it for the next person who's staying in that 0:37:38.360 --> 0:37:43.960 little shack. I also think there's um a moment where 0:37:44.719 --> 0:37:48.000 speaking of how white this film is. But when we 0:37:48.080 --> 0:37:51.279 meet Matthew Mohonna as Palmer Joss. When we meet him, 0:37:51.560 --> 0:37:54.880 he makes some sort of comment about why they're in 0:37:55.239 --> 0:37:57.399 I think they're in Puerto Rico. I think that's where 0:37:57.440 --> 0:38:00.839 they are, and he's like, well, what is science mean 0:38:00.920 --> 0:38:03.839 to these people like you? Scientists come in here and 0:38:04.040 --> 0:38:07.080 you take up this space in these in these cultures, 0:38:07.080 --> 0:38:10.719 in these communities, that that the science and space exploration 0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:12.640 doesn't serve in some sort of way, And he sort 0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:16.399 of sets up this very important conversation and that it's 0:38:16.480 --> 0:38:19.279 just all God from there. It's just all you know, 0:38:19.760 --> 0:38:23.640 ontological questions about theology from there. But it's completely, just 0:38:24.440 --> 0:38:27.480 completely dropped, And I didn't. I forgot that moment. I 0:38:27.560 --> 0:38:30.839 forgot about that whole sequence, and it's never They never 0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:32.560 get back to it, and I wonder if I can't. 0:38:32.600 --> 0:38:34.160 I want to reread the book and find out whether 0:38:34.239 --> 0:38:37.200 or not they deal with that of the question of 0:38:37.520 --> 0:38:41.320 who is science? Who is space exploration for? And Jodie 0:38:41.360 --> 0:38:44.279 Foster of course answers that question because she's marvelous, But 0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:46.560 who is it for? You know, it's it's for anyone 0:38:46.560 --> 0:38:50.040 who feels alone. That's kind of the the thesis maybe 0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:53.759 of her alien dad and her I don't know. I 0:38:53.800 --> 0:38:57.480 mean I also thought that he was the Palmer Jaws 0:38:57.680 --> 0:39:01.840 kind of hate saying that name we all do was 0:39:01.840 --> 0:39:04.839 was also very like in that same conversation, is very 0:39:04.840 --> 0:39:08.239 dismissive of the people who live locally, because he's like, Oh, 0:39:08.320 --> 0:39:10.680 they don't they don't know what the you know, satellite 0:39:10.719 --> 0:39:14.000 dishes are for. They think it's for their like basically 0:39:14.080 --> 0:39:16.800 just like making this kind of like a side comment 0:39:16.880 --> 0:39:19.040 to say like, oh, people around here have no idea 0:39:19.200 --> 0:39:21.480 what what you guys are doing. And then and then, 0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:25.719 like you said, continues into this his whole god tangent 0:39:25.880 --> 0:39:27.759 and it's like, well, if you're going to set a 0:39:27.800 --> 0:39:31.480 movie here, set it here, don't you like? I Like, 0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:34.560 we talked about that all the time, of like using 0:39:34.880 --> 0:39:38.080 somewhere and and and the people that are native there 0:39:38.120 --> 0:39:42.160 as set dressing rather than including them meaningfully in the plot, 0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:47.120 which is just always always frustrating. Yeah, I mean they 0:39:47.160 --> 0:39:49.600 did that with I remember in the book when the 0:39:49.680 --> 0:39:53.719 second machine or maybe maybe there aren't two machines, I 0:39:53.719 --> 0:39:56.800 don't remember, there's there. It's possible that the whole first machine, 0:39:56.800 --> 0:40:01.400 and then the evangelical Christian who bombs it. It doesn't 0:40:01.440 --> 0:40:03.640 happen in the book. I can't remember, but I do 0:40:03.719 --> 0:40:06.239 know that the second machine or the first um is 0:40:06.280 --> 0:40:10.160 built in Japan, and the relationship with the Japanese government 0:40:10.160 --> 0:40:14.200 and the Japanese scientists and engineers is much more a 0:40:14.280 --> 0:40:16.480 part of the book. And you'll notice that it's just 0:40:16.520 --> 0:40:20.520 represented by these two Japanese man stand like leading Jodie 0:40:20.560 --> 0:40:24.000 Foster into this, into the pot, and they say nothing, 0:40:24.360 --> 0:40:28.200 and they're just they behave in this sort of you know, subservient. 0:40:28.360 --> 0:40:31.919 The portrayed is this kind of subservient group of people, 0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:34.279 and like they don't even react to the fact that 0:40:34.320 --> 0:40:39.000 they're standing over this obelisk looking spinning thing. It's just 0:40:39.080 --> 0:40:43.759 so done as like conversation worthy. I would say, yeah, yeah, 0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:48.520 if they're not, they're not treating the the as you said, 0:40:48.520 --> 0:40:51.520 like the places that they're shooting this with, as anything 0:40:51.520 --> 0:40:55.439 other than just set dressing, which is very nineties early 0:40:55.440 --> 0:41:02.440 two thousand's Hollywood, certainly is okay. Then Drumlin pulls his 0:41:02.520 --> 0:41:04.839 funding from the project because he thinks it's a waste 0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:09.480 of time. So Ellie and Kent and some other colleagues 0:41:09.680 --> 0:41:12.239 pick up and head to New Mexico to lease some 0:41:12.320 --> 0:41:19.640 government satellites there, and Ellie helps them get funding from investors. 0:41:20.000 --> 0:41:22.400 We then cut to four years later they were about 0:41:22.400 --> 0:41:26.120 to lose that funding or like Drumlin is going to 0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:28.760 come back and try to like take over the lease 0:41:28.800 --> 0:41:32.839 of this something. I think like any time they run 0:41:32.880 --> 0:41:35.799 out of funding. Honestly, these scenes kind of blurred for me, 0:41:35.840 --> 0:41:38.000 where it's like any time they lose funding. Jennie Foster 0:41:38.080 --> 0:41:40.080 throws on a turtleneck and I was like, all right, 0:41:40.719 --> 0:41:44.040 who do I need to talk to? And then eventually 0:41:44.080 --> 0:41:49.000 it happens. Yeah. Yeah, the funding narrative is sort of repetitive. 0:41:49.040 --> 0:41:51.520 I don't real didn't remember that, but I know Hagen 0:41:51.719 --> 0:41:54.680 the guy, the rich guy in space is a big 0:41:54.719 --> 0:41:57.799 part of the book as well, But but it is 0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:03.200 sort of creepy that he's like, are in very very strange? Yeah, 0:42:03.320 --> 0:42:06.080 the Yeah, the funding falls through, she gets the turtle 0:42:06.160 --> 0:42:09.200 lack all of a sudden, guess what funding back back. 0:42:10.000 --> 0:42:13.239 But then it seems like contact has been made by 0:42:13.560 --> 0:42:17.280 aliens from a star that's twenty six light years away 0:42:17.360 --> 0:42:22.960 called Vega. They transmit prime numbers between two and one 0:42:23.200 --> 0:42:31.240 because math is a universal language Da Vinci code. Wow. Um. 0:42:31.280 --> 0:42:35.240 Then the Vega Aliens send a video transmission of Hitler 0:42:35.280 --> 0:42:38.200 announcing the opening Olympic Games in Berlin, because that was 0:42:38.239 --> 0:42:41.880 like the first powerful television transmission to be sent into 0:42:41.920 --> 0:42:45.359 space from Earth. So the aliens recorded it and sent 0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:48.760 it back to be like I see you, I hear you, Hello. 0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:51.040 And then everyone's like, this is not representative of what 0:42:51.040 --> 0:42:55.880 we're trying to do here, right right. Then Ellie and 0:42:55.960 --> 0:43:00.880 friends continue to decode the transmission and they discovered that 0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:05.720 the Vega Aliens have sent thousands of pages of data, 0:43:06.080 --> 0:43:08.480 but it's all in like you know, alien code that 0:43:08.480 --> 0:43:12.120 they don't understand, so they have to decrypt it and 0:43:12.160 --> 0:43:16.840 they need like a primer, like a key to the code. Meanwhile, 0:43:17.040 --> 0:43:20.240 James Woods is this. I think he's like the National 0:43:20.280 --> 0:43:25.919 Security Advisor. Fuck James Woods. Seriously, we don't have time 0:43:25.920 --> 0:43:31.400 to unpack all the funk James Woods. But fuck James Woods. Uh. 0:43:31.520 --> 0:43:35.680 So he's giving Ellie hard time. The press is reporting 0:43:35.719 --> 0:43:40.120 on contact being made. Uh, there's a conversation like kind 0:43:40.120 --> 0:43:43.520 of religion versus science that's being had between a lot 0:43:43.520 --> 0:43:47.880 of people. Um Palmer, Joss is on Larry King talking 0:43:47.880 --> 0:43:51.440 about his his book about yet another Larry appearance. I 0:43:51.440 --> 0:43:56.160 feel like ever, I mean, Larry's everywhere, He's everywhere. This 0:43:56.239 --> 0:43:59.360 is not still not the best Larry that's done on 0:43:59.400 --> 0:44:03.759 the best Larry, because that's B movie, Yes, B Larry King. 0:44:06.120 --> 0:44:11.040 Then dr hadn't a k. John Hurt, the eccentric billionaire, 0:44:11.280 --> 0:44:14.720 pays Ellie a visit and he has figured out the primer, 0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:17.160 like a k A, how to decode the data that 0:44:17.239 --> 0:44:20.520 the aliens sent, and with this they are able to 0:44:20.600 --> 0:44:24.320 determine that this data is a blueprint for a machine 0:44:24.320 --> 0:44:26.560 of some kind. They don't know what it's supposed to 0:44:26.560 --> 0:44:29.479 do at first, but it becomes clear that it's meant 0:44:29.480 --> 0:44:32.360 to be a transport to bring a human into space, 0:44:32.760 --> 0:44:37.839 presumably to make direct contact with the Vega aliens. So 0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:41.400 then some government officials have made a list of a 0:44:41.400 --> 0:44:44.160 few candidates who might be the person to go to Vega. 0:44:44.680 --> 0:44:47.759 One of them is Ellie. One of them is her 0:44:47.800 --> 0:44:53.160 former boss Drumlin, and he he really really wants to go. Oh, 0:44:53.239 --> 0:44:55.840 I want to kick his ass. Oh. And then also 0:44:55.880 --> 0:45:00.120 there's a rogue Jake Busey just kind of blue hang 0:45:00.239 --> 0:45:02.560 over and this is Also, Caitlin and I were talking 0:45:02.600 --> 0:45:06.080 about this, uh last night, how Jake Busey in the nineties, 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:08.239 he just he just he wanted to be in a 0:45:08.280 --> 0:45:10.719 space movie. It didn't matter what was happening in the 0:45:10.760 --> 0:45:15.560 space movie Starship Troopers Contact. He was using his particular 0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:19.920 kind of nepotism to be in space movies. I honestly 0:45:19.960 --> 0:45:23.279 want that particular kind of nepotism so bad, Like if 0:45:23.320 --> 0:45:25.600 I could just love that for him. I love that 0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:27.560 for him, but I want it for me. That's the truth. 0:45:30.360 --> 0:45:33.920 So then it's time to choose who goes. Ellie has 0:45:33.920 --> 0:45:38.920 passed over because she's an atheist slash agnostic, which Palmer 0:45:39.040 --> 0:45:43.360 jaz like docks as her as an atheist in a 0:45:43.400 --> 0:45:48.959 public forum, and because they think that people on Earth 0:45:49.120 --> 0:45:52.000 believe in some form of higher power, they want to 0:45:52.000 --> 0:45:55.919 pick someone who represents most of humanity. So she gets 0:45:55.920 --> 0:45:59.600 passed over, uh and instead Drumlin gets selected to go. 0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:02.480 And then they run a test of the machine that 0:46:02.560 --> 0:46:07.279 they have built. But this religious extremist a k A. 0:46:07.400 --> 0:46:12.120 Jake Bausey a K. Gary Busey's son, breach of security, 0:46:12.280 --> 0:46:16.320 sets off a bomb which destroys the machine and kills Drumlin, 0:46:16.480 --> 0:46:19.840 among many others. So then it seems like okay, that's it, 0:46:20.080 --> 0:46:23.840 no one's going to go to Vega until Dr Haddn't 0:46:24.080 --> 0:46:28.200 shows up again and reveals to Ellie that a second 0:46:28.239 --> 0:46:32.000 machine was built in secret in Japan and they want 0:46:32.040 --> 0:46:36.839 Ellie to go to Vega. This damn plot guy he like, 0:46:37.200 --> 0:46:40.920 I was just like, maybe he's a character that makes 0:46:41.000 --> 0:46:43.880 more sense in the book than he did in the movie, 0:46:43.960 --> 0:46:46.600 but he really just did seem he was like giving 0:46:46.600 --> 0:46:48.879 me plot which energy and this like where he would 0:46:48.880 --> 0:46:51.960 just show up, like when when Jodie Foster was like 0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:55.120 really in a bind, he would be like do do 0:46:55.120 --> 0:46:58.080 do do from space and be like, by the way, 0:46:58.239 --> 0:47:00.799 here's the plot point you need, and then and then 0:47:00.920 --> 0:47:02.640 and then he just dies when he runs out of 0:47:02.640 --> 0:47:07.520 plot points. It's really sad, real old wise man patron 0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:11.880 for a younger woman energy as well, like very very 0:47:11.920 --> 0:47:14.680 like don't worry, I've seen something in you that no 0:47:14.719 --> 0:47:17.000 one else has seen. And you're my girl, like you're 0:47:17.040 --> 0:47:20.120 my you know. He also is like stalking her, and 0:47:20.560 --> 0:47:24.160 he's also stalking her putting stuff in her bedroom. Does 0:47:24.200 --> 0:47:26.400 he have home video footage of her as a child, 0:47:26.719 --> 0:47:30.160 Like I was like that, where did he get that? 0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:32.799 I mean, we still don't know where she grew up, 0:47:32.920 --> 0:47:36.719 So thanks, I guess, but it's true. Definitely nullifies some 0:47:36.760 --> 0:47:40.879 of Jodie Foster's get up and go agency and her 0:47:41.000 --> 0:47:43.640 like you know, tearing this down and making this happen. 0:47:43.680 --> 0:47:46.040 I mean, they're just some wonderful moments where Jody is 0:47:46.080 --> 0:47:48.120 the only smart person in the room or the person 0:47:48.120 --> 0:47:51.560 who knows. Like when she notices what's his name as 0:47:51.640 --> 0:47:57.040 the evangelical she knows that Jake. Yeah, yeah, j thought 0:47:57.080 --> 0:48:00.520 he was so sneaky. And what's interesting. I world note 0:48:00.719 --> 0:48:05.920 with present day context, when the newscaster covers the story 0:48:05.920 --> 0:48:09.480 of the bombing bombing, they call him a terrorist, they 0:48:09.480 --> 0:48:12.560 call him I noticed that too. Yeah, you never see 0:48:12.920 --> 0:48:15.000 I mean, and this is like a problem to this 0:48:15.080 --> 0:48:19.879 day of like declaring white terrorists to be what they are, yeah, 0:48:20.239 --> 0:48:24.160 or white male evangelical terrorists to say Christian terrorists. It 0:48:24.239 --> 0:48:28.000 was such a a weird, interesting moment of like, oh, yeah, 0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:31.320 this is interesting how we've mutilated the word terrorism to 0:48:31.480 --> 0:48:34.440 mean essentially people of color from different countries. You know, 0:48:34.480 --> 0:48:36.719 it was such an incredibly weird moment. I was like, 0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:39.120 oh yeah, blast for the past. Yeah, I made don't 0:48:39.160 --> 0:48:41.120 of that too. Yeah, I hate. I mean it's I 0:48:41.160 --> 0:48:42.960 hate that we live in a world where that is 0:48:43.000 --> 0:48:45.279 like of note, but it absolutely is. I was like, 0:48:45.520 --> 0:48:50.680 I was okay, okay, okay, okay to go okay, to 0:48:50.800 --> 0:48:55.239 go okay. It took me as I don't know why, 0:48:54.880 --> 0:49:01.160 I totally okay. Back to the recount. So then Ellie 0:49:01.160 --> 0:49:04.919 prepares for the trip. Palmer Joss is like, oh, don't 0:49:04.960 --> 0:49:07.640 want you to go, and she's like, I'm going, but 0:49:07.719 --> 0:49:12.000 she also forgives him. He apologizes for robbing her, like 0:49:12.160 --> 0:49:14.719 very near robbing her of her dream. But then she's 0:49:14.719 --> 0:49:18.239 like it's cool because you know the whole Jake beausey thing, 0:49:18.400 --> 0:49:20.239 Like I feel like that was the subtext of it. 0:49:20.360 --> 0:49:22.960 She's like, well, you know it all worked out of 0:49:23.040 --> 0:49:27.800 like that. We need a longer conversation about this. So 0:49:28.120 --> 0:49:31.440 she is launched into space. She goes through a series 0:49:31.480 --> 0:49:35.920 of wormholes. She ends up on this like astro beach. 0:49:36.200 --> 0:49:40.080 It looks like a screen faver, it looks yeah, her 0:49:40.160 --> 0:49:42.360 dad seems to materialize in front of her, but it 0:49:42.360 --> 0:49:46.440 turns out that it's a Vega alien who had downloaded 0:49:46.520 --> 0:49:50.879 her subconscious and sort of like is this ambassador who 0:49:50.960 --> 0:49:53.520 has taken on the form of her dad to more 0:49:53.640 --> 0:49:57.440 effectively communicate with her. They have a little chat about 0:49:57.480 --> 0:50:01.000 like people of Earth and how they feel so lost 0:50:01.160 --> 0:50:04.640 and alone, but now they can know that they're not alone. 0:50:05.040 --> 0:50:07.200 And this is just a first of like many steps 0:50:07.880 --> 0:50:13.040 of like contact among different you know, terrestrial beings. And 0:50:13.080 --> 0:50:15.560 then she is pretty quickly after that returned to Earth. 0:50:16.400 --> 0:50:19.680 But back on Earth, they're like, Ellie, there was a malfunction. 0:50:19.920 --> 0:50:22.919 You didn't go anywhere, And she's like, um, yeah, I did. 0:50:23.080 --> 0:50:26.960 I talked to the aliens obviously, like the machine opened 0:50:27.000 --> 0:50:30.160 up a wormhole and I traveled through spacetime. I was 0:50:30.200 --> 0:50:33.440 gone for like eighteen hours. The aliens was my dad, 0:50:33.880 --> 0:50:37.200 I was. I was on a beach five star resort 0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:40.000 that looks like that. It looks like her painting, right 0:50:40.040 --> 0:50:43.080 she she yeah, yeah, she was like I was. I 0:50:43.120 --> 0:50:46.440 went to Pensacola, but in the middle of space. And 0:50:46.480 --> 0:50:49.560 then they're like, um, we don't believe you. There's no 0:50:49.640 --> 0:50:52.960 evidence of this. Nothing was recorded except for static. But 0:50:53.080 --> 0:50:56.759 how much static? Right can we? I just seemed to 0:50:56.920 --> 0:50:58.799 I feel like I need to pause just to talk 0:50:58.840 --> 0:51:04.520 about the extation, the expectation that that dinky little thing 0:51:04.560 --> 0:51:10.440 they put on her head withstand when this fan I 0:51:10.480 --> 0:51:13.560 just I remember being like they're like, okay, here we go, 0:51:13.600 --> 0:51:17.239 and they open up this very official suitcase with like 0:51:17.360 --> 0:51:19.239 foam in it where they're like, okay, we're gonna give 0:51:19.239 --> 0:51:22.399 you the device and it looks like my Walkman from 0:51:24.680 --> 0:51:28.200 It looks like something like like the Gwen Stefani mike 0:51:28.640 --> 0:51:36.400 like for a stadium Dora. This through a wormhole and 0:51:36.440 --> 0:51:39.680 they put it on her head with this little silver 0:51:40.200 --> 0:51:42.719 headband and I'm thinking, like, they don't even put a 0:51:42.719 --> 0:51:45.279 bobby pin into secure it. Nothing, It's just going to 0:51:45.440 --> 0:51:50.120 stay on her head during this wormhole esque it makes 0:51:50.160 --> 0:51:54.160 me and then the expectation that she is responsible for 0:51:54.200 --> 0:51:58.200 the evidence that she's responsible. He's yelling at her, where's 0:51:58.200 --> 0:52:00.319 your evidence? You don't have any evidence. I'm like, well 0:52:00.360 --> 0:52:03.239 that's on you, bro. You sent her with the like 0:52:03.360 --> 0:52:09.239 the most cracked little piece of technology. Why is it 0:52:09.320 --> 0:52:12.640 on her? And her chair like blows up, Oh my god, 0:52:12.640 --> 0:52:15.560 the chair that wasn't even supposed to be there, because 0:52:15.560 --> 0:52:17.839 she's like there's nothing in the design specs for this 0:52:17.920 --> 0:52:21.200 like chair and the harness, and it's like, yeah, we 0:52:21.280 --> 0:52:25.319 understand why because it's like just implodes. Yeah, She's like, 0:52:25.360 --> 0:52:27.880 trust the aliens, trust my dad, This's gonna be fine. 0:52:28.280 --> 0:52:32.880 But the evidence thing just absolutely that makes no sense 0:52:33.640 --> 0:52:37.200 because yeah, James Woods is like screaming at her and 0:52:37.560 --> 0:52:39.719 like being like, you don't have any proof, and she's like, 0:52:40.160 --> 0:52:42.480 I don't know. But then Palmer Joss is like, well 0:52:42.560 --> 0:52:47.160 I believe her. You're like, wow, brave, amazing feminist icon 0:52:47.640 --> 0:52:54.120 Palmer Joss, and we're just like and then James Woods 0:52:54.160 --> 0:52:56.840 and angel A Bassett have that conversation where angel A 0:52:56.920 --> 0:53:00.920 Bassett's like, yes, only static was recorded on this supposed 0:53:00.960 --> 0:53:04.040 trip to Vega, But James Woods, don't you think it's 0:53:04.040 --> 0:53:08.839 weird that eighteen hours was recorded? And then he goes, yeah, 0:53:08.840 --> 0:53:13.600 I guess yes, that gets it's weird. And then the 0:53:13.640 --> 0:53:18.280 film ends with Ellie continuing her work on searching for 0:53:18.400 --> 0:53:23.279 extraterrestrial intelligence. And that's the end of the movie. Let's 0:53:23.320 --> 0:53:27.239 take another quick break and we'll come back for more discussion. 0:53:34.360 --> 0:53:38.400 And we're back. We've we've talked about some stuff already, 0:53:38.440 --> 0:53:40.560 but there are there are some things I want to 0:53:40.640 --> 0:53:43.719 kind of dig into a little bit. I want to 0:53:43.719 --> 0:53:46.680 do a quick overview of the production history of this 0:53:46.719 --> 0:53:53.240 movie because there are some very nineties things that you'll notice, 0:53:53.960 --> 0:53:57.640 um popping out. So this is a movie that has 0:53:57.680 --> 0:54:02.600 a majority white male crew at the top. Directed by 0:54:02.680 --> 0:54:06.239 Robert Zamakis. Uh screenplay is by James V. Hart and 0:54:06.280 --> 0:54:11.760 Michael Goldenberg, but the story is by Carl Sagan and 0:54:11.760 --> 0:54:15.480 Andrew Ien, who were not married I don't think at 0:54:15.480 --> 0:54:18.720 the time of this story, but they were later um 0:54:19.000 --> 0:54:21.799 later married. But what I didn't realize about this was 0:54:21.880 --> 0:54:26.560 that uh, Contact was a book from that was turned 0:54:26.560 --> 0:54:28.840 into a movie. But it was originally envisioned as a 0:54:28.920 --> 0:54:31.520 movie and then someone was like, oh, Carl Sagan, actually 0:54:31.560 --> 0:54:33.359 maybe if you write a book, it'll be easier for 0:54:33.440 --> 0:54:36.560 us to to get it produced. Um. So this was 0:54:36.600 --> 0:54:40.000 in production for a really, really really long time. A 0:54:40.080 --> 0:54:42.839 female producer was the one who got it over the edge. 0:54:43.200 --> 0:54:47.600 Linda Obst shout out. She was friends with Carl Sagan 0:54:47.760 --> 0:54:51.080 and really you know, advocated for this project to exist. 0:54:51.800 --> 0:54:56.600 Carl Sagan wrote the story with Andrew In, who is 0:54:56.800 --> 0:55:01.919 like an incredible filmmaker, scientist, researcher in her own right. 0:55:02.840 --> 0:55:06.120 And I didn't know. We don't have like, you know, 0:55:06.360 --> 0:55:08.280 all the time in the world to get into Carl Sagan, 0:55:08.440 --> 0:55:13.000 but as a very prominent scientist he did um as 0:55:13.000 --> 0:55:16.399 far as my research indicated, was a strong advocate for 0:55:16.840 --> 0:55:20.600 diversity in general in the science fields, but he was 0:55:20.960 --> 0:55:24.200 an advocate for women. They're like this amazing anecdote in 0:55:24.239 --> 0:55:29.439 the eighties of him approaching it's such a silly name 0:55:29.440 --> 0:55:32.360 that I'm like, this can't be a thing. The Explorers Club. 0:55:32.480 --> 0:55:36.080 Apparently it's a very famous astronomer's group, and it was 0:55:36.120 --> 0:55:39.200 all male all the way into the nineteen eighties. And 0:55:39.280 --> 0:55:42.400 he wrote a strongly worded letter to say, why the 0:55:42.440 --> 0:55:47.480 funk aren't women allowed in this group? Like, what's going on? Yeah, 0:55:47.560 --> 0:55:51.919 so Carl feminist icon also Andrew and you know, I'm 0:55:51.960 --> 0:55:55.400 sure that she she was an advocate as well, obviously, 0:55:56.200 --> 0:55:59.560 and and uh, this is his only novel, and they 0:55:59.719 --> 0:56:04.560 you know, he and Andrean took special care to ensure 0:56:04.600 --> 0:56:07.000 that there was a female protagonist in the novel and 0:56:07.080 --> 0:56:10.680 also in the movie, which is also, you know, relatively 0:56:10.960 --> 0:56:16.600 unusual in sci fi to this day. Ellie Earraway was 0:56:16.680 --> 0:56:20.960 based on a real person, uh, Dr Jill Tarter. Uh. 0:56:21.040 --> 0:56:24.840 The Seti Institute is a real thing who knew not me, uh, 0:56:24.960 --> 0:56:29.520 which she founded right, Yes, she founded Jodie Foster like 0:56:29.640 --> 0:56:33.359 worked with her. Um, so the very nineties thing that 0:56:33.480 --> 0:56:37.120 happens here, and this will kind of get us into 0:56:37.719 --> 0:56:41.200 some of the book versus movie changes that have been made. 0:56:41.400 --> 0:56:47.440 Was there was a male producer, uh, Peter Goober, which 0:56:48.239 --> 0:56:50.279 let's just get into it's really going to live up 0:56:50.280 --> 0:56:55.360 to his name. He so so after the book was published, 0:56:55.480 --> 0:56:58.719 apparently the mother gets killed off very early, which is 0:56:58.800 --> 0:57:02.600 just like such an Erican movie thing to do. On 0:57:02.719 --> 0:57:05.680 top of that, Peter Goober was pitching all these things 0:57:05.719 --> 0:57:09.520 to like quote unquote flesh out Ellie's character more. But um, 0:57:09.600 --> 0:57:12.520 he was really advocating for her to have an estranged 0:57:12.800 --> 0:57:17.000 teenage son, which Carl and Anne were like no, no, no, 0:57:17.640 --> 0:57:22.440 uh but um, Peter Goober says, like quote, here was 0:57:22.480 --> 0:57:24.680 a woman consumed with the idea that there was something 0:57:24.680 --> 0:57:26.960 out there worth listening to, but the one thing she 0:57:26.960 --> 0:57:31.200 could never make contact with was her own child. To me, 0:57:31.640 --> 0:57:33.360 that's what the film had to be about, which is 0:57:33.400 --> 0:57:36.480 like the most male executive note about a female protagonist 0:57:36.920 --> 0:57:39.520 that I've ever heard, where it's just like, oh, well, 0:57:39.560 --> 0:57:41.760 if it's a woman, it has to be related to 0:57:42.200 --> 0:57:48.280 motherhood and deal with your mommy issues elsewhere. Gouber, I'm like, yeah, 0:57:48.560 --> 0:57:52.080 like can we like just take this your therapist. Um, 0:57:52.120 --> 0:57:54.880 and yeah. There was just kind of a lot of 0:57:55.560 --> 0:57:58.680 back and forth in terms of how Ellie should be characterized. 0:57:59.600 --> 0:58:02.800 But luckily carl and and I think took every stand 0:58:02.800 --> 0:58:05.000 they could. I'm very I wasn't able to find information 0:58:05.080 --> 0:58:08.439 about like at what point did Palmer drop become like 0:58:08.560 --> 0:58:17.520 a stud full one McConaughey, But yeah, there there there 0:58:17.600 --> 0:58:19.400 was like a lot of changes made to the story. 0:58:19.560 --> 0:58:23.080 Some of them that proposed changes were pretty sexist and reductive, 0:58:23.280 --> 0:58:26.200 and many of them didn't make it to the movie. 0:58:26.280 --> 0:58:28.680 Some of them did. I also read that it was 0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:32.240 pitched that Ellie the movie would end with like her 0:58:32.280 --> 0:58:36.720 having a baby. Yes, yes, that was another goober pitch 0:58:38.640 --> 0:58:41.000 that was a goober that's forever now that that was 0:58:41.040 --> 0:58:42.920 a goober that has goober written all over it. He 0:58:42.960 --> 0:58:45.920 really gooped that one up. This goober just means like 0:58:46.040 --> 0:58:49.160 anyone trying to just add goob to anything, any female story, 0:58:49.200 --> 0:58:51.080 they're trying to goog it up. My one of my 0:58:51.120 --> 0:58:53.439 favorite things, because we talked about this quite a bit 0:58:53.560 --> 0:58:58.080 of particularly when it's male writers who are just writing 0:58:58.080 --> 0:59:01.000 outside of their own experience. It's like, well, just talk 0:59:01.080 --> 0:59:04.440 to someone, like, have the proper consultants on on the 0:59:04.480 --> 0:59:08.080 movies that you're working on at the very very very least, 0:59:08.600 --> 0:59:11.440 And that does happen in this they so Jill Tarter, 0:59:11.640 --> 0:59:14.360 Jodie Foster, and I guess that the writers and and 0:59:14.480 --> 0:59:17.640 Karl and and work with her. And she was a 0:59:17.640 --> 0:59:22.040 consultant on this story specifically, not just for the scientific elements, 0:59:22.120 --> 0:59:26.520 but to talk about the careers of women's scientists in 0:59:26.600 --> 0:59:29.280 her experience between the fifties and seventies. And I guess 0:59:29.320 --> 0:59:32.560 a lot of the kind of specific instances of Ellie 0:59:32.560 --> 0:59:35.760 being spoken over, opportunities being taken from her, her work, 0:59:35.840 --> 0:59:38.520 kind of being made to seem less impactful than it 0:59:38.560 --> 0:59:43.920 actually was, was pulled from Jill Tarter's experience. So go 0:59:44.160 --> 0:59:49.640 Dr Jill. She said. On her first day as like 0:59:49.680 --> 0:59:54.040 a PhD candidate at UC Berkeley in the mid sixties, 0:59:54.240 --> 0:59:57.480 she was told by the head of the astronomy department 0:59:57.640 --> 1:00:01.040 that the only reason that she was there was because quote, 1:00:01.080 --> 1:00:06.440 all these smart men got drafted for Vietnam. So yep. Unsurprisingly, 1:00:06.480 --> 1:00:10.120 she had to put up with a lot of sexism, 1:00:10.400 --> 1:00:14.000 believe it or not, believe it or not, Shucker, I'm 1:00:14.040 --> 1:00:16.640 really glad she was like meaningfully included. I mean, as 1:00:16.720 --> 1:00:20.040 much as I'm like, can't we get from female screenwriters 1:00:20.080 --> 1:00:23.720 on this, I am very glad that her experiences were 1:00:23.880 --> 1:00:27.840 like really taken into account on the consulting level. Um. 1:00:27.880 --> 1:00:32.040 And I feel like that it enriches the movie. Oh absolutely. 1:00:32.120 --> 1:00:34.840 And I think you can feel how much. I mean, 1:00:34.960 --> 1:00:39.000 just knowing the the pedigree that is Jodie Foster, There's 1:00:39.040 --> 1:00:43.320 no way she wouldn't have absolutely absorbed everything this woman 1:00:43.600 --> 1:00:46.400 felt and said and and like I think, my I 1:00:46.440 --> 1:00:49.720 mean when I I don't remember the religious plot, I 1:00:49.760 --> 1:00:53.640 don't remember Matthew McConaughey, I don't remember all the other stuff. 1:00:53.640 --> 1:00:56.040 What I remember is being a young girl watching this 1:00:56.120 --> 1:00:59.760 and being like, holy cow, she loves science. Holy cow, 1:00:59.840 --> 1:01:03.200 she becomes this. It was so empowering growing up. Like 1:01:03.240 --> 1:01:07.320 I remember that moment when she's outside and she's like 1:01:07.320 --> 1:01:09.800 losing her financing and she's like, screw it, I'm taking 1:01:10.040 --> 1:01:13.520 the computer box outside and I'm going to listen on 1:01:13.560 --> 1:01:16.720 my head in my car, and then she hears it 1:01:17.280 --> 1:01:19.800 and she's driving that car like a bat out of 1:01:19.880 --> 1:01:23.919 hell and she's you know, she's spitting coordinates and crap. 1:01:23.960 --> 1:01:26.680 And there's like a ten minute scene where the audience 1:01:26.720 --> 1:01:29.440 doesn't understand funk All, like there's just no way unless 1:01:29.440 --> 1:01:31.360 you're a scientist, you know what the hell they're talking about. 1:01:31.720 --> 1:01:34.800 But even watching it last night, I was so captivating. 1:01:34.880 --> 1:01:38.720 It's so captivating. And what I remember how I felt 1:01:39.120 --> 1:01:42.840 as a young girl watching this. I remember her being 1:01:42.880 --> 1:01:46.040 like I hear it, I I know, and her the 1:01:46.120 --> 1:01:50.280 constant attempt for her to believe, to have the benefit 1:01:50.320 --> 1:01:52.520 of the doubt in the aliens, for her to be like, no, 1:01:52.680 --> 1:01:55.080 they wouldn't have done this if they didn't say they 1:01:55.080 --> 1:01:58.120 needed a chair there. This isn't a weapon, like why 1:01:58.120 --> 1:02:01.120 would they, you know? And just and that a spirit 1:02:01.200 --> 1:02:04.560 and energy. And it's interesting because I had read that 1:02:05.840 --> 1:02:09.200 Andrew and Carl Sagan had written this, as you said, 1:02:09.400 --> 1:02:11.720 as a feature first, and then they were like, oh, 1:02:11.760 --> 1:02:13.200 we can't get his feature made, so let's make it 1:02:13.200 --> 1:02:15.360 into a book, and then he wrote the book. But 1:02:15.400 --> 1:02:18.680 it's it's I wonder what the differences between those two 1:02:18.680 --> 1:02:21.680 screenplays would have been, because at the end of the film, 1:02:21.720 --> 1:02:24.360 it says, for Carl and You're kind of like and 1:02:24.560 --> 1:02:27.600 Drew's participation. It says it says story by the two 1:02:27.640 --> 1:02:31.720 of them, but her participation is sort of Yeah. I 1:02:31.760 --> 1:02:34.080 do think it's because he died before the movie came out. 1:02:34.120 --> 1:02:36.320 I'm pretty sure that that's why the movie is dedicated 1:02:36.560 --> 1:02:40.840 to him specifically, Um, yeah, because he died in late 1:02:40.920 --> 1:02:45.000 nineties show like right when they were probably finished, probably 1:02:45.000 --> 1:02:48.480 while they're in production. Yeah, okay, well that's sad, Okay, 1:02:48.480 --> 1:02:50.720 never mind. I just was like, where did because I 1:02:51.040 --> 1:02:54.600 it's it's now becomes such a Carl Sagan, like it's 1:02:54.720 --> 1:02:57.520 his project, where the story of the two of them 1:02:57.520 --> 1:03:00.760 writing it is kind of also special, but especially because 1:03:00.760 --> 1:03:04.400 I mean there is there tends to be an erasure 1:03:04.440 --> 1:03:07.280 of like there will be a famous man and then 1:03:07.680 --> 1:03:11.200 he will collaborate with a woman. Maybe it's a romantic partner. 1:03:11.240 --> 1:03:14.240 Maybe it's just like a professional partner for like much 1:03:14.240 --> 1:03:18.600 of his career, but people tend to only remember the man, 1:03:19.160 --> 1:03:22.520 and the woman often gets erased from the narrative. I'm 1:03:22.560 --> 1:03:28.080 thinking with John Carpenter and oh my god, I don't 1:03:28.120 --> 1:03:30.040 remember her name because her name gets e raised all 1:03:30.040 --> 1:03:32.880 the time. Let me figure it out. Deborah Deborah Hill? 1:03:33.000 --> 1:03:36.880 Is that ith? Yeah? One of many examples of this, 1:03:37.160 --> 1:03:40.800 so especially in the science world, like it's it's rampart, 1:03:40.920 --> 1:03:45.000 like Marie Curry dealt with this that if you female 1:03:45.040 --> 1:03:50.760 scientists releasing information and making just monster discoveries that men 1:03:50.840 --> 1:03:53.439 have taken credit for, like it's just and I think 1:03:53.520 --> 1:03:56.240 they they show the heartbreak of that in the film, 1:03:56.320 --> 1:03:59.200 with that guy constantly interrupting her and taking credit for 1:03:59.240 --> 1:04:02.640 her and somehow having a press conference with Bill Clinton 1:04:02.720 --> 1:04:05.040 while he was in office, Like Bill Clinton is hell 1:04:05.120 --> 1:04:07.480 of the president at this point and he's in the movie. 1:04:07.760 --> 1:04:10.720 How did I guess? So I did some research on 1:04:10.760 --> 1:04:13.120 that because I was like he did, because first of all, 1:04:13.640 --> 1:04:17.040 Bill Clinton, right, but but on but on top of that, 1:04:17.200 --> 1:04:20.000 like did he film scenes for that movie? I don't 1:04:20.000 --> 1:04:22.560 think that he did. I think that they repurposed existing 1:04:22.600 --> 1:04:25.680 speeches he's made and wrote around it to make it work. 1:04:26.000 --> 1:04:28.760 That makes sense in the movie, which there was there 1:04:28.760 --> 1:04:31.600 seemed to be some controversy about at the time, which 1:04:31.640 --> 1:04:33.040 is kind of like, I don't know. I was kind 1:04:33.040 --> 1:04:35.320 of like, shut up, but they were like, well, what 1:04:35.480 --> 1:04:38.480 if would have viewers think that it's a documentary if 1:04:38.520 --> 1:04:41.680 it includes the actual president? At the time, I'm like, well, 1:04:41.720 --> 1:04:43.760 then I guess that they like, I need to read 1:04:43.800 --> 1:04:47.080 a book. It's very clearly a movie. Um, but yeah, 1:04:47.160 --> 1:04:49.560 he I think that that Like all the CNN anchors 1:04:49.600 --> 1:04:53.080 like did film scenes for the movie, but Bill Clinton didn't. 1:04:53.120 --> 1:04:54.960 They just were like, oh, what are clips of him 1:04:55.280 --> 1:04:58.080 talking about stuff that sounds like it could be about aliens. 1:04:58.360 --> 1:05:02.280 It's seamless enough that it it work, works, it works. 1:05:02.320 --> 1:05:07.760 But yes, Andrean shout out to her. She's still working today. 1:05:08.240 --> 1:05:11.720 She's worked on the Cosmos reboot. She's been like, had 1:05:11.800 --> 1:05:16.640 complete creative control over, won a bunch of Emmys for it. Rocks. 1:05:16.920 --> 1:05:20.760 She rocks. I mean women in science fiction is I 1:05:20.800 --> 1:05:24.680 mean my whole ursula. Ky La Gwin as as the 1:05:24.840 --> 1:05:28.000 probably the most prominent science fiction writer in my life 1:05:28.120 --> 1:05:34.120 and also just an incredible intellect in the gender performative 1:05:34.120 --> 1:05:38.760 gender gender space, feminism space. Like she she is one 1:05:38.800 --> 1:05:41.080 of the greatest science fiction writers of all time, and 1:05:41.400 --> 1:05:45.200 she's so remarkably female and talks about all most of 1:05:45.200 --> 1:05:48.440 her protagonists or women and it's uh yeah, I mean 1:05:48.520 --> 1:05:51.200 it's women are just so fantastic in this space. And 1:05:51.440 --> 1:05:55.080 because it's science fiction, you don't always it's the future, 1:05:55.120 --> 1:05:58.200 it's it's a hope for a different time where patriarchy 1:05:58.320 --> 1:06:00.520 isn't soaked in everything we're doing, so you can have 1:06:00.600 --> 1:06:04.720 these pockets of you know, like an escape or narrative 1:06:04.760 --> 1:06:07.280 transport in a way that he really gives an opportunity 1:06:07.320 --> 1:06:10.120 to kind of unpack gender issues in the sci fi space. 1:06:10.160 --> 1:06:12.960 So the fact that women would be detectives in that 1:06:13.000 --> 1:06:17.240 space is it makes sense to me. Um. I Also, 1:06:17.360 --> 1:06:20.000 I love that you were saying that the ending of 1:06:20.040 --> 1:06:22.320 the film had like maybe she has baby, maybe this 1:06:22.440 --> 1:06:25.520 and and you know, he's not a palmer. Josh is 1:06:25.520 --> 1:06:27.919 not in that last shot, like he's not watching her, 1:06:28.560 --> 1:06:30.600 but while she you know what I mean, Like I was, 1:06:30.760 --> 1:06:33.040 I was like, oh, that's good because we don't really know. 1:06:33.800 --> 1:06:35.360 First of all, I don't know how they have such 1:06:35.360 --> 1:06:38.320 an intimate relationship when they slept together once, she doesn't 1:06:38.360 --> 1:06:41.280 see him for like five years then and then and 1:06:41.320 --> 1:06:45.440 then he just kai boshes her her dreams. She forgives 1:06:45.520 --> 1:06:48.520 him because she's just so kind, I guess. And then 1:06:49.120 --> 1:06:51.680 he's not there in that final sequence where she's inspiring 1:06:51.720 --> 1:06:53.520 young kids. And I remember that when I was younger, 1:06:53.560 --> 1:06:58.520 being like that's Hella inspiring. I remember being like, this 1:06:58.600 --> 1:07:00.680 works this is working on me. I'm a kid, I'm 1:07:00.680 --> 1:07:03.680 watching this. This is this is Hella working. Um, but 1:07:03.800 --> 1:07:07.520 he's not there, Thank god God. Yeah, their relationship is 1:07:07.960 --> 1:07:10.080 We touched on this, but I'm pretty sure it was 1:07:10.120 --> 1:07:12.160 like a studio notes thing. It doesn't not appear to 1:07:12.360 --> 1:07:14.280 I didn't I didn't read the I didn't read the book. 1:07:14.400 --> 1:07:18.720 But according to the Wikipedia synopsis of the book, he 1:07:18.840 --> 1:07:21.200 is a character, but he does not appear as though 1:07:21.200 --> 1:07:24.880 there's any romantic relationship between them. So for him to 1:07:24.960 --> 1:07:28.880 be introduced in this context in the movie is like 1:07:28.920 --> 1:07:33.479 this potential romantic prospect, which like I mean, it's she's 1:07:33.480 --> 1:07:35.320 just like has a one night stand with him, and 1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:36.760 then she's just like I don't need to talk to 1:07:36.800 --> 1:07:39.480 him again, Like we clearly don't have that much in common. 1:07:39.560 --> 1:07:43.360 He's a theologian, I'm an agnostic scientist, Like we're not 1:07:43.440 --> 1:07:46.600 very compatible here, But then he keeps like creeping up 1:07:46.640 --> 1:07:49.360 and like try Like I'm just like, it's one thing 1:07:49.400 --> 1:07:52.760 if they have a friends with benefits thing, which is 1:07:52.800 --> 1:07:56.000 like what it seems like Ellie wants. But then he's like, 1:07:56.080 --> 1:07:59.320 as we've discussed, like I'm going to steal your dreams 1:07:59.360 --> 1:08:02.880 away from you. I am claiming ownership over you, and 1:08:02.920 --> 1:08:05.760 it's just like, leave her alone. My crush is more 1:08:05.800 --> 1:08:10.400 important than your dreams. You're like, what the fuck? Not 1:08:10.520 --> 1:08:14.600 just your dreams, but like the greatest moment in humanity's history, Like, 1:08:15.320 --> 1:08:18.559 it's not just Jodie Foster's dreams. It's quite literally, she 1:08:18.800 --> 1:08:21.439 is the one person who has to go talk to 1:08:21.479 --> 1:08:24.680 aliens for the first time in the human species existent 1:08:24.760 --> 1:08:27.320 and he's like a little about my crush. Yeah, And 1:08:27.360 --> 1:08:30.200 what's especially frustrating about that is that like, yeah, she 1:08:30.439 --> 1:08:33.719 too easily forgives him. I feel like once she learns, 1:08:33.760 --> 1:08:36.880 once he reveals to her, oh, the real reason I 1:08:36.960 --> 1:08:40.799 voted for you not to go to Vega was because 1:08:40.880 --> 1:08:44.800 of my little crush, and then she should have been like, Okay, 1:08:44.800 --> 1:08:47.200 thanks for telling me. Now I know to never fucking 1:08:47.200 --> 1:08:50.439 talk to you again. You ask whole I was also, 1:08:50.479 --> 1:08:55.520 I mean, particularly with that studio, like very studio notes relationship. 1:08:55.560 --> 1:08:57.680 I just first of all, this movie just could have 1:08:57.680 --> 1:09:01.000 generally been a little shorter. And that's face that Palmer 1:09:01.040 --> 1:09:03.840 Joss takes up. I feel it could have been way 1:09:03.840 --> 1:09:08.439 better used by giving Ellie a woman to talk to, 1:09:08.920 --> 1:09:12.479 and like, because I understand that like, you know in 1:09:12.520 --> 1:09:16.040 her workplace, it it you know there are other female scientists. 1:09:16.040 --> 1:09:17.960 I wish that she had someone to talk to at work. 1:09:18.360 --> 1:09:22.000 But if that is not possible for story reasons or 1:09:22.360 --> 1:09:25.320 because of the life experience that you're pulling from from 1:09:25.439 --> 1:09:28.280 Dr Jill and on and on, then it's like it's 1:09:28.280 --> 1:09:31.120 a movie. You can include other women for her to 1:09:31.200 --> 1:09:35.080 have friendships and meaningful relationships with. But I feel like 1:09:35.200 --> 1:09:39.639 instead of using the area that we're given in this 1:09:39.680 --> 1:09:42.960 movie to build out Ellie's inner life, it's like dad 1:09:43.280 --> 1:09:46.360 and love interest and there's no and it sounds like 1:09:47.080 --> 1:09:49.880 I mean, it's it's extra frustrating Kelly hearing that that 1:09:50.000 --> 1:09:52.960 her mom is present in the book and there is 1:09:53.280 --> 1:09:56.880 a relationship that we have to just kind of built 1:09:56.920 --> 1:10:00.160 her out outside of how she relates to a their 1:10:00.240 --> 1:10:03.920 men and occasionally Angela Bassett, who also doesn't get enough 1:10:03.960 --> 1:10:07.160 to do. The fact that she was barely in my 1:10:07.280 --> 1:10:12.519 recap speaks to like, she's not an unimportant character, but 1:10:13.040 --> 1:10:16.920 she's not so important that she's really influencing major like 1:10:17.280 --> 1:10:20.519 narrative story beats. She shows up, like halfway through she 1:10:20.520 --> 1:10:23.640 shows up. The film is just white people until like 1:10:23.680 --> 1:10:25.559 an hour and a half in and then it's Angelo 1:10:25.640 --> 1:10:28.600 Bassett and then that's pretty much it. It's not and 1:10:28.640 --> 1:10:30.840 you don't you don't not. You don't know what she wants, 1:10:30.960 --> 1:10:33.640 you don't know why she's she, you don't know what 1:10:33.680 --> 1:10:35.960 her job is, you don't know what her opinion is. 1:10:36.160 --> 1:10:39.160 In fact, every time anyone expresses an opinion, her her 1:10:39.200 --> 1:10:41.800 opinion is. Can you guys just stop arguing, like can 1:10:41.800 --> 1:10:44.200 you can you calm down? You don't ever find out 1:10:44.240 --> 1:10:47.400 what Angela Bassett's character, what the fabric of her character is, 1:10:47.439 --> 1:10:49.920 what makes her tick? Nothing, You just you just know 1:10:50.000 --> 1:10:52.879 that she's like the president's mouthpiece. And because we couldn't 1:10:53.200 --> 1:10:56.519 afford the real Bill Clinton, we have Angela Bassett sort 1:10:56.520 --> 1:10:59.800 of like talking for him, but there's no real We 1:10:59.800 --> 1:11:01.959 don't they don't give her anything, and the only conversation, 1:11:01.960 --> 1:11:04.120 as with Jodie Foster, is a girlfriend I need to dress, 1:11:04.280 --> 1:11:08.240 which is problematic, which is it's so fright because it's 1:11:08.560 --> 1:11:10.559 it would have been so cool to build out that 1:11:10.680 --> 1:11:13.559 relationship between those two characters, because they're coming from very 1:11:13.600 --> 1:11:16.360 different places. You get like little tastes of it where 1:11:16.680 --> 1:11:19.800 I like when when Angela Bassett's character Rachel is introduced. 1:11:20.200 --> 1:11:22.680 She's just like, oh fuck, the aliens sent us a 1:11:22.720 --> 1:11:25.120 clip of Hitler, and Jodie Foster is like no, no, no no, 1:11:25.120 --> 1:11:27.559 no no. There's like there's all this, you know, like 1:11:27.680 --> 1:11:30.599 they're they're coming from very different places, and it would 1:11:30.600 --> 1:11:33.360 have been cool to explore that, like, you know, Angela 1:11:33.400 --> 1:11:37.080 Bassett is like, beholden to this, you know, governmental bureaucracy, 1:11:37.160 --> 1:11:40.000 and Jodie Foster like has this totally and it's like, 1:11:40.080 --> 1:11:43.639 well that what's going on there, Like let's get Matthew 1:11:43.680 --> 1:11:46.360 McConaughey the funk out of here. There's like better characters 1:11:46.400 --> 1:11:50.240 for her to be interacting. Yeah, okay, I had to 1:11:50.360 --> 1:11:54.280 go out of the story. Um. Yeah, there's a really 1:11:54.560 --> 1:11:58.280 quick moment that I think could have been just like 1:11:58.720 --> 1:12:02.320 drawn out and and explored a bit more where and 1:12:02.360 --> 1:12:05.280 maybe I'm even like misinterpreting this, but it seems like 1:12:05.600 --> 1:12:09.960 Rachel Angela Bassett's character is kind of advocating for Ellie 1:12:09.960 --> 1:12:12.200 to be kept in control of the project because James 1:12:12.240 --> 1:12:15.679 Woods is all like, let's militarize this, and she's like no, no, no, 1:12:15.800 --> 1:12:19.400 like for now Ellie is in charge still, and that 1:12:19.439 --> 1:12:21.439 would have been I would have liked to just see 1:12:21.720 --> 1:12:27.200 more women lifting up other women here, because as we've 1:12:27.479 --> 1:12:31.559 kind of touched on already, there's this like recurring motif 1:12:31.720 --> 1:12:35.040 a theme throughout the movie of men taking credit for 1:12:35.080 --> 1:12:39.120 women's work. And this is especially true of Drumlin, who 1:12:39.200 --> 1:12:43.280 keeps like swooping in and when someone's like okay, and 1:12:43.360 --> 1:12:47.080 now the person who's the lead on the project who 1:12:47.120 --> 1:12:50.439 made this discovery, Ellie thinks that she's about to get 1:12:50.479 --> 1:12:54.680 called up. We think she is, but then they call 1:12:54.800 --> 1:12:58.400 up Drumlin and he takes the credit for this discovery 1:12:58.560 --> 1:13:01.000 for the most part, and then that little speech he 1:13:01.120 --> 1:13:03.960 gives her before right before he blows up, I'm like 1:13:04.439 --> 1:13:08.920 byre where he's like, you know, it sucks that, like 1:13:09.240 --> 1:13:12.280 you probably think we live in a meritography, but we 1:13:12.439 --> 1:13:16.000 just don't. So about to take your dream. You're like 1:13:16.280 --> 1:13:18.280 fuck you. And like I was like, oh man, I 1:13:18.320 --> 1:13:21.320 hope he explodes, and then he did. He did, And 1:13:21.360 --> 1:13:24.800 it's interesting. It's interesting that the film sort of positions 1:13:24.880 --> 1:13:27.400 all of this like religion narrative of like, you know, 1:13:27.439 --> 1:13:29.960 the person who goes to meet the aliens should represent 1:13:30.000 --> 1:13:33.559 all humanity, therefore believing God. But it becomes clear that 1:13:33.640 --> 1:13:36.360 Drummond only said that he was doing it for God 1:13:36.479 --> 1:13:39.240 to sort of be political and get the position. And 1:13:39.560 --> 1:13:41.719 I think it was a really interesting critique of how 1:13:42.479 --> 1:13:45.840 politicians and people in power will sort of ride that 1:13:45.920 --> 1:13:49.240 party line, will sort of placate the religious base in 1:13:49.360 --> 1:13:52.360 order to get political gains. It was sort of an 1:13:52.360 --> 1:13:54.000 interesting thing. And he kind of admits it to her. 1:13:54.040 --> 1:13:56.479 He's like, I'm sorry that I know you were honest, 1:13:56.520 --> 1:13:59.000 but sometimes I'm butchering it. But he says something like 1:13:59.080 --> 1:14:02.160 sometimes honesty is not how you get ahead, or something 1:14:02.200 --> 1:14:05.160 like that. But he's basically like, don't hate the player, 1:14:05.280 --> 1:14:11.520 hate the game. Yeah right, yeah, that's yeah, Okay, that's 1:14:11.560 --> 1:14:14.400 time to blow up. Yeah. I wanted to talk a 1:14:14.439 --> 1:14:18.320 little bit about this idea of selecting one person to 1:14:18.400 --> 1:14:22.320 represent all of humanity, and the only topic that gets 1:14:22.520 --> 1:14:26.800 discussed is like religion, really, and they're like, we want 1:14:26.840 --> 1:14:30.000 someone who believes in God, and the person who ends 1:14:30.040 --> 1:14:34.519 up originally being selected is a white, able bodied, upper 1:14:34.520 --> 1:14:39.799 class sisman from from America. And then it's a SIS 1:14:39.840 --> 1:14:44.360 able bodied white woman who is highly educated, middle class 1:14:44.360 --> 1:14:48.080 from America. So what I would like to propose, you know, 1:14:48.240 --> 1:14:51.840 people of Earth basically should have been like, okay, Vega Aliens. 1:14:51.960 --> 1:14:55.800 I see your one person space transport, and I raise 1:14:55.880 --> 1:15:01.439 you a one hundred person space vehicle that can carry 1:15:01.439 --> 1:15:05.320 a larger group of people who are actually more representative 1:15:05.600 --> 1:15:09.080 of the Earth. Kelly, you were saying that more people 1:15:09.160 --> 1:15:12.040 do go in the book. Five people go in the book, 1:15:12.080 --> 1:15:16.160 and I believe it's like from a diverse representation of humanity. 1:15:16.439 --> 1:15:20.479 Um uh, and each of them have This is again 1:15:20.520 --> 1:15:23.320 I'm going to get in trouble with the sci fi fans, 1:15:23.360 --> 1:15:25.439 but I think each of them has their own like 1:15:25.520 --> 1:15:31.040 beach experience where they each are visited by a moniker 1:15:31.320 --> 1:15:36.360 or phantom of a memory that makes them feel uncomfortable. Um. 1:15:36.400 --> 1:15:39.639 But yeah, it's it's definitely I will say this though 1:15:39.680 --> 1:15:41.240 I don't know how you guys feel about this, but 1:15:41.360 --> 1:15:43.920 I do think the film does a good job of 1:15:43.960 --> 1:15:46.960 showing the moments where a female scientist is being stepped 1:15:47.000 --> 1:15:51.320 on and and disregarded and underestimated and all that. But 1:15:51.680 --> 1:15:54.320 the whole conversation, the whole campaign about whether or not 1:15:54.360 --> 1:15:57.519 it should be Jodie Foster dr Ellie going on this trip, 1:15:57.840 --> 1:16:00.760 I do feel like they sort of I mean, the 1:16:00.800 --> 1:16:04.000 reality is there would be so much sexism around that 1:16:04.080 --> 1:16:06.920 would be the fanfare of it and the news coverage 1:16:06.960 --> 1:16:09.160 of it, and like whether or not a woman should 1:16:09.160 --> 1:16:12.960 go or a man like that was completely not and 1:16:13.320 --> 1:16:16.439 what the virtues of having a female go versus a male, 1:16:16.680 --> 1:16:20.760 Like what the type of diplomacy that women are by 1:16:21.000 --> 1:16:24.240 a sad default taught their whole lives to diffuse and 1:16:24.280 --> 1:16:26.760 to be you know, be good at at a sort 1:16:26.800 --> 1:16:32.400 of more maternal maternal and imperative experienceuring, nurturing and represented 1:16:32.479 --> 1:16:35.679 him in the race because and so they don't really 1:16:36.360 --> 1:16:38.840 that's just completely not present. It's just like, yeah, it 1:16:38.880 --> 1:16:41.439 would be in America if there was a couple of 1:16:41.479 --> 1:16:43.840 women who are nominated for the campaign and men, it 1:16:43.840 --> 1:16:45.800 would just be all fair game. Well we know it 1:16:45.800 --> 1:16:48.920 wouldn't be. And that's like and I think that all 1:16:48.960 --> 1:16:52.120 the religious as you said, it's all about religion, Well, 1:16:52.160 --> 1:16:55.559 if it is about religion, and knowing how gendered the 1:16:55.600 --> 1:16:58.360 religious space can be, especially when coming up with like 1:16:58.439 --> 1:17:02.720 the one Messiah esque person who's gonna talk to the aliens, 1:17:03.200 --> 1:17:04.439 I don't know, I feel like they kind of just 1:17:04.560 --> 1:17:08.080 glossed over that JODI's not sitting there going They're not 1:17:08.120 --> 1:17:10.920 picking me because I'm a woman, which is would be 1:17:10.960 --> 1:17:14.600 my first thought, my first life, right, which which I 1:17:14.600 --> 1:17:17.680 feel like it's kind of partially implied in in the 1:17:17.800 --> 1:17:20.920 text too, because she's being steamrolled by all her male 1:17:20.960 --> 1:17:25.200 superiors basically like I mean, it's I I get like, 1:17:25.240 --> 1:17:28.200 if it's one person who can go, it's like, well 1:17:28.320 --> 1:17:31.960 she discovered it's so like she's like I Also this 1:17:32.040 --> 1:17:35.920 reminded me of um an amazing work by friend of 1:17:35.920 --> 1:17:39.160 the cast, Marsha Belski that has to do with sexism 1:17:39.240 --> 1:17:43.760 in space travel, which the one hundred Tampons song, which 1:17:43.800 --> 1:17:46.040 if you haven't heard it, you gotta hear it. But 1:17:46.200 --> 1:17:49.679 it's based around this, uh, this anecdote where NASA thought 1:17:49.680 --> 1:17:52.880 Sally Ride needed one hundred tampons to go into space 1:17:52.920 --> 1:17:55.960 for a week quote unquote just to be safe. Like 1:17:56.080 --> 1:17:59.600 it's there is I mean in the friger back you go, 1:17:59.840 --> 1:18:02.639 the worse it is, but there was a clear president 1:18:02.880 --> 1:18:09.040 for uh sexism and just a complete no understanding of 1:18:09.880 --> 1:18:14.800 menstruating people at all. The tampons really, um, it's a 1:18:14.840 --> 1:18:21.120 bob will link it in the description. It's really good. Yeah, yeah, 1:18:21.160 --> 1:18:24.000 I do. I do wish that there that Um, it's 1:18:24.080 --> 1:18:27.520 kind of it's I don't know, I mean, the sexism 1:18:27.560 --> 1:18:31.240 that she is facing is definitely present, but it's like 1:18:31.360 --> 1:18:34.200 you don't really hear her talk about it very much. 1:18:34.200 --> 1:18:38.479 It's interesting, it's more woman for her to talk to. Maybe, yeah, 1:18:38.640 --> 1:18:40.559 it does seem a bit more subtle because it never 1:18:40.600 --> 1:18:43.400 gets like specifically named, or you never have someone like 1:18:43.479 --> 1:18:47.400 Drumlind being like, who's gonna believe you? You silly women? 1:18:47.920 --> 1:18:51.000 Women can't do science, which is fine, which is good 1:18:51.040 --> 1:18:54.960 because that would be crummy writing, right, So, but yeah, 1:18:55.040 --> 1:18:58.320 it does get kind of glossed over. But I think 1:18:58.320 --> 1:19:02.040 there's also something interesting about like no one's like, oh, 1:19:02.160 --> 1:19:05.200 you can't do science, you woman, and for there to 1:19:05.240 --> 1:19:08.200 be representation of that on screen, where like people still 1:19:08.400 --> 1:19:11.160 take her seriously for the most part and acknowledge that 1:19:11.200 --> 1:19:15.160 she is a brilliant scientist and don't really bring gender 1:19:15.200 --> 1:19:18.000 into it. Even though it might not be the most 1:19:18.280 --> 1:19:20.840 realistic thing all the time, I still think there's something 1:19:20.880 --> 1:19:25.000 interesting about just like allowing that to be seen by people. 1:19:26.680 --> 1:19:30.720 I guess I just wish that maybe Jody annotates it. 1:19:30.920 --> 1:19:34.040 She's aware of what's going on, Like it's like she's there, 1:19:34.120 --> 1:19:36.160 there's all these things happening to her, and there this 1:19:36.200 --> 1:19:39.600 is the moment where Drummond takes this the podium in 1:19:39.640 --> 1:19:42.640 front of and with the president, and there there is 1:19:42.680 --> 1:19:47.360 this feeling of immediate heartbreak and loss, but it's that's 1:19:47.400 --> 1:19:49.240 just how it is. She's just upset and that. And 1:19:49.280 --> 1:19:52.120 then there's not that other female character for her for 1:19:52.120 --> 1:19:55.400 her to sort of um write trade notes with and 1:19:55.400 --> 1:19:57.120 be like, yes, this is how it is, and da 1:19:57.200 --> 1:19:59.760 da da, and yes this is the nineties. So that's 1:19:59.800 --> 1:20:01.720 kind of the thing. And and you're right, there is 1:20:01.760 --> 1:20:05.760 something really remarkable where Jody is not gendering herself. She 1:20:05.960 --> 1:20:09.320 just cares. Her bottom line is science. She identifies as 1:20:09.400 --> 1:20:13.240 a scientist. She is scientist. Dr Ellie like, it's she 1:20:13.520 --> 1:20:16.800 is that so um and I can relate to that 1:20:16.800 --> 1:20:20.400 a lot, because it's like the most I don't know, 1:20:20.400 --> 1:20:23.920 disorienting moments of sexism or when you're you're just identifying 1:20:23.960 --> 1:20:26.439 yourself as a as a as an artist or an 1:20:26.439 --> 1:20:29.679 a tour or a someone who is trying to make 1:20:29.760 --> 1:20:34.000 something happen and someone else is gendering you and you're 1:20:34.040 --> 1:20:36.679 like the math doesn't compute. You're like, oh, yeah, right, 1:20:36.760 --> 1:20:39.120 I guess you're thinking this where I'm just thinking of 1:20:39.160 --> 1:20:42.519 myself as artist. I'm just thinking myself as mart And 1:20:42.520 --> 1:20:45.880 and I love that in the film because that's her 1:20:45.960 --> 1:20:49.080 like not to make a not to make a space pun, 1:20:49.120 --> 1:20:51.760 but like that's like her north Star. You know, she's 1:20:51.840 --> 1:20:55.559 just is so. And then when she's in space and 1:20:55.640 --> 1:20:59.559 she sees the galaxy thing and she's like, I have 1:20:59.640 --> 1:21:03.120 no words, it's so beautiful. Like that, the fact that 1:21:03.160 --> 1:21:05.160 she has those blinders on and that's all she cares 1:21:05.160 --> 1:21:07.559 about leads up to this incredible moment, which I'll say 1:21:07.680 --> 1:21:10.839 I only noticed last night because maybe my VHS VHS 1:21:10.920 --> 1:21:14.360 copy was a VHS copy, which you know, for people 1:21:14.360 --> 1:21:17.160 who know VHS, it's like it was mostly static. It 1:21:17.240 --> 1:21:22.719 was there's this moment where she's looking at the galaxy 1:21:22.760 --> 1:21:26.040 and her face changes to her younger version of herself. 1:21:26.080 --> 1:21:29.600 Did you guys catch that sending her voice changes? I 1:21:29.640 --> 1:21:32.519 don't remember that happening whatsoever. And I was like, is 1:21:32.560 --> 1:21:35.880 this like a remastering like someone who made the Blu 1:21:36.040 --> 1:21:39.000 Ray the Blue Ray DVD was like, let's add this 1:21:39.040 --> 1:21:43.519 weird moment because the technology almost almost also feels too 1:21:44.080 --> 1:21:47.479 good to advance for seven Yeah, well, I mean I'm 1:21:47.520 --> 1:21:49.559 not sure if you guys remember that sweet CG action, 1:21:50.439 --> 1:21:53.840 but it was not seamless and there was super great 1:21:55.400 --> 1:21:57.920 I really, I mean it's I'm I'm so interested to 1:21:57.960 --> 1:22:01.040 hear both of your perspectives and how the sexism in 1:22:01.040 --> 1:22:04.120 this movie is treated. And I yeah, I'm kind of 1:22:04.120 --> 1:22:07.080 of like two minds about it where it I think 1:22:07.080 --> 1:22:09.040 I would have really rolled my eyes if they came 1:22:09.080 --> 1:22:12.439 at it from a super nineties like a woman can't 1:22:12.560 --> 1:22:15.120 do this, and she goes, well, guess what I'm going 1:22:15.160 --> 1:22:19.160 to show you? Like that is such a convention that 1:22:19.680 --> 1:22:22.840 and and I feel like you can really tell that 1:22:23.640 --> 1:22:26.320 someone who had experienced this kind of discrimination had been 1:22:26.360 --> 1:22:30.559 consulted because the examples are so like baked into the movie, 1:22:30.640 --> 1:22:33.759 so it's like Jill Tarter's consultation. You can like feel 1:22:33.760 --> 1:22:36.160 it in the way that like even in moments that 1:22:36.520 --> 1:22:40.040 that were very small where there's a scene where Jodie 1:22:40.040 --> 1:22:42.200 Foster is trying to talk to Angela Bassett as they're 1:22:42.200 --> 1:22:44.519 doing a very West wing walk through the white House 1:22:44.560 --> 1:22:48.080 moment and what I kept calling him a drum line 1:22:48.080 --> 1:22:53.360 in my head, Uh, drumline, drum line. Drumline just starts 1:22:53.400 --> 1:22:56.519 talking over her and like start continues her sentence as 1:22:56.560 --> 1:22:58.400 if it was his own idea, and you're like, yeah, 1:22:58.479 --> 1:23:02.200 that's such a small thing, but it really connects. And 1:23:02.640 --> 1:23:05.800 I do think that like the most elegant way to 1:23:05.840 --> 1:23:08.720 acknowledge it without making it like a real bash over 1:23:08.760 --> 1:23:12.080 the head third wave feminism moment is to just give 1:23:12.080 --> 1:23:14.760 her someone to talk to about it, even in passing, 1:23:15.080 --> 1:23:17.920 like I feel like it would have helped. But that said, 1:23:17.960 --> 1:23:21.280 I feel like the the sexism she experienced this is 1:23:21.439 --> 1:23:25.120 pretty clear. I mean, especially at like the James Wood 1:23:25.160 --> 1:23:28.639 screaming at her on national television of like blaming her 1:23:28.640 --> 1:23:32.440 for all sorts of ship. That makes no sense. You're delusional, 1:23:32.600 --> 1:23:37.240 you were hysterical, you hallucinated the whole thing. And the 1:23:37.280 --> 1:23:41.479 way that she keeps her cool like is so it's 1:23:41.520 --> 1:23:44.639 like she's like you're saying, like she's a scientist first, 1:23:44.640 --> 1:23:47.439 and she's like, okay, as a scientist, I have to say, like, yeah, 1:23:47.439 --> 1:23:50.000 I don't have any people like maybe you're maybe you 1:23:50.040 --> 1:23:52.080 should have given me better than like a pair of 1:23:52.120 --> 1:23:56.320 five dollar headphones, like attached to a little metal headband 1:23:56.479 --> 1:23:59.840 with nobs, no body pins. They weren't attached. And I 1:23:59.880 --> 1:24:04.160 just love that Jody, even when she's like traverse dimensions 1:24:04.240 --> 1:24:06.640 and she's on some sort of like tropical beach with 1:24:06.640 --> 1:24:09.080 her dad. She's still like, are you guys reading this? 1:24:10.439 --> 1:24:13.920 Like she still has confidence and she's like, I have 1:24:14.000 --> 1:24:16.160 to record this. I I can have confidence in this 1:24:16.200 --> 1:24:19.160 little too hicky. Um, yeah, you're you're still right. It 1:24:19.240 --> 1:24:22.240 is sort of that that nineties convention of of like 1:24:22.240 --> 1:24:25.320 a woman can't do that, and like that's detrimental and 1:24:25.360 --> 1:24:30.960 problematic and leave such a horrible like graveyard of films 1:24:30.960 --> 1:24:34.880 where you're watching women be like subject subjectified and and 1:24:34.920 --> 1:24:37.760 all that stuff. So and I will say that I 1:24:37.760 --> 1:24:43.479 would categorize this film in the canon of pre you 1:24:43.520 --> 1:24:47.040 know where we're at now, I guess pre me too 1:24:47.080 --> 1:24:50.439 area era where we're sort of not find a lot 1:24:50.479 --> 1:24:52.120 of the things we know and how the functions of 1:24:52.120 --> 1:24:54.600 these films work has not been normalized. Where I have 1:24:54.760 --> 1:24:58.080 to give a lot of credit to Jodie Foster and 1:24:58.080 --> 1:25:01.920 and a lot of actresses at this time period and 1:25:02.160 --> 1:25:04.760 from the last hundred years of filmmaking who are the 1:25:04.840 --> 1:25:08.400 sort of like last vestige or last stance of of 1:25:08.439 --> 1:25:10.680 being able to advocate for themselves on set. Like I 1:25:10.760 --> 1:25:14.360 constantly read interviews with with Meryl Streep and and and 1:25:14.400 --> 1:25:17.080 actors who have been working forever, who are like I 1:25:17.160 --> 1:25:19.360 literally had to sit down with the writer and say, 1:25:19.479 --> 1:25:22.120 she wouldn't do that. That's not what she did, would 1:25:22.160 --> 1:25:26.280 do She cares about science and at Female actors just 1:25:26.360 --> 1:25:29.639 don't get this sort of retroactive credit that I think 1:25:29.640 --> 1:25:34.320 that they deserve for advocating for their storylines. I'm trying. 1:25:34.360 --> 1:25:36.200 I'm blanking on the film that I read Meryl Streep 1:25:36.240 --> 1:25:39.519 talking about this, the one. Maybe it's the one with 1:25:39.640 --> 1:25:43.000 Deer and the title. What's the title of that film, Dear, 1:25:43.439 --> 1:25:49.080 dear hunter, no killing of a sacred dear damn it, 1:25:49.520 --> 1:25:51.280 I'll have to I can't remember, But there's a one 1:25:51.280 --> 1:25:54.040 where she talks about like, basically I had to help 1:25:54.080 --> 1:25:57.439 rewrite that film because the because the female character made 1:25:57.479 --> 1:26:00.360 no sense, and it's the making of no sense. The 1:26:00.400 --> 1:26:04.000 sort of the thing we're struggling with is it makes 1:26:04.040 --> 1:26:07.639 no sense that her relationship with Palmer Joss. It doesn't 1:26:07.680 --> 1:26:11.559 to us. It reads false because we know we know 1:26:11.640 --> 1:26:14.160 it makes her tick, We know the fiber of her character, 1:26:14.200 --> 1:26:16.000 we know what she would live and die for. She 1:26:16.040 --> 1:26:19.720 says it. She says, I believe this is worth dying for. 1:26:20.080 --> 1:26:24.040 She says it so the falsities in her behavior, the 1:26:25.040 --> 1:26:29.240 choice to forgive Palmer for quite literally stomping on something 1:26:29.280 --> 1:26:34.000 that she is willing to die for, it reads so false. 1:26:34.240 --> 1:26:36.280 So I mean, I just have to give credit to 1:26:36.479 --> 1:26:40.439 Jody because I can't imagine that she wasn't on set 1:26:40.479 --> 1:26:43.960 with those with her, you know, running around looking for 1:26:44.240 --> 1:26:46.439 the writer and the producer and the director with her 1:26:46.479 --> 1:26:49.360 script in hand, being like, no, she cares about science. No, 1:26:49.520 --> 1:26:52.160 she cares about science, and it's on every line she says. 1:26:52.320 --> 1:26:54.519 And it's so radiant in that way. It's such a 1:26:54.640 --> 1:26:58.479 radiant performance because it's like from the very first thing 1:26:58.520 --> 1:27:00.640 we see her in as a young girl to the 1:27:00.720 --> 1:27:04.439 very end of the film and her admitting, yes, I 1:27:04.479 --> 1:27:07.280 can't give you empirical evidence as a scientist, I must 1:27:07.320 --> 1:27:12.040 concede that like her church, her God, her religion is 1:27:12.160 --> 1:27:15.360 almost more realized than any religion that is represented in 1:27:15.400 --> 1:27:19.040 the film. Her religion is so realized in science. Shout 1:27:19.040 --> 1:27:23.320 out to Jody. She's she. They named an asteroid after 1:27:23.360 --> 1:27:27.719 her after the movie came up early. There's an asteroid 1:27:27.800 --> 1:27:30.960 named after Jodie Foster. I have to I'm assuming off 1:27:31.000 --> 1:27:33.639 of the success of Contact, but maybe just her impact, 1:27:33.720 --> 1:27:35.320 and so felt that they're like, well, we were going 1:27:35.360 --> 1:27:39.639 to do this anyways, but yeah, Asteroid seventeen seven forty 1:27:39.680 --> 1:27:47.880 four Jodie Fostering One thing though, the did ring more 1:27:48.000 --> 1:27:52.000 true though in the movie was and already touched on this. 1:27:52.040 --> 1:27:54.720 But like for me, for example, when I have been 1:27:54.760 --> 1:27:58.720 on the receiving end of sexism, it hasn't most of 1:27:58.760 --> 1:28:01.880 the time, it hasn't been someone being like, oh, well 1:28:02.000 --> 1:28:05.680 you're a woman, so you can't do this. It's just 1:28:05.720 --> 1:28:08.439 been like more subtle stuff like me being talked over, 1:28:08.760 --> 1:28:13.600 me being interrupted, me, like people passing me over for opportunities, 1:28:13.640 --> 1:28:16.479 like things like that. That is what Jody Foster's character 1:28:16.520 --> 1:28:20.000 is experiencing in this movie. So I appreciate that you 1:28:20.080 --> 1:28:24.400 do have this like what we clearly identify as sexism, 1:28:24.439 --> 1:28:29.880 but it is not super overt or explicit. The sexism is, 1:28:29.960 --> 1:28:32.880 you know, more covert and subtle, which again I think 1:28:32.960 --> 1:28:37.760 is a more common version of how people's sexism manifests. 1:28:37.880 --> 1:28:41.720 So that happening in the movie to Jody's character just 1:28:42.000 --> 1:28:45.200 ran very true. Right, It's a very good point, very 1:28:45.200 --> 1:28:48.519 good point. One thing I wanted to quickly shout out 1:28:48.560 --> 1:28:51.519 this was kind of my last note on Ellie was 1:28:51.760 --> 1:28:54.280 it like exists throughout the background of the film. But 1:28:54.320 --> 1:28:58.120 I really liked her friendship with her coworker Kent. I 1:28:58.160 --> 1:29:01.920 thought that that was really lovely. And it's I think 1:29:01.960 --> 1:29:05.719 it's just again, it's like we're really looking for scraps 1:29:05.800 --> 1:29:08.599 in movies from the nineties in particular. But the fact 1:29:08.600 --> 1:29:12.320 that she had like a very just a platonic friendship 1:29:12.400 --> 1:29:14.479 that seemed to be built on a lot of mutual 1:29:14.520 --> 1:29:17.360 respect for each other with her friend Kent, and I 1:29:17.400 --> 1:29:18.880 just thought it was so nice. And then when he 1:29:19.080 --> 1:29:20.960 shows up at the end, she's like, oh my god, 1:29:21.439 --> 1:29:23.920 my friend Ken. And then he hears her. He's the 1:29:23.960 --> 1:29:26.360 one who hears her saying, yeah, he to go. I 1:29:26.400 --> 1:29:30.040 started sobbing. I started sobbing. I sobbed a lot last night. Guys. 1:29:30.040 --> 1:29:32.800 I'm really trying to play cool, but I sobbed hard 1:29:33.240 --> 1:29:35.720 at the end of Jodie's whole You know, yeah, that 1:29:35.840 --> 1:29:39.040 that relationship with Kent is really really interesting. I think 1:29:39.080 --> 1:29:42.720 it's a little problematic the portrayal of a blind man 1:29:42.880 --> 1:29:45.920 that he plays. It's a little you're kind of again, 1:29:46.000 --> 1:29:48.559 as you said, playing for scraps with movies in the nineties, 1:29:48.920 --> 1:29:52.519 because it's not only that he's portrayed as blind, but 1:29:53.040 --> 1:29:57.120 almost that he's I don't know, something to be um 1:29:57.160 --> 1:29:59.559 to kind of handle with kid gloves a little bit, 1:29:59.800 --> 1:30:04.000 Like the portrayal of of him as blind is sort 1:30:04.040 --> 1:30:05.840 of I don't know. I'm not sure what you guys 1:30:05.840 --> 1:30:08.479 think about that. Yeah, I was trying to find writing 1:30:08.680 --> 1:30:12.439 about this and I couldn't find anything specifically about this 1:30:12.680 --> 1:30:17.479 character in regards to the representation of a blind or 1:30:17.560 --> 1:30:22.400 visually impaired person. Definitely, it's problematic that the character is 1:30:22.439 --> 1:30:25.880 not played by an actor who is blind. Um, he's 1:30:25.880 --> 1:30:30.360 played by William Fitchner, who is not blind. It felt 1:30:30.400 --> 1:30:33.520 to me, and this is just kind of my limited understanding, 1:30:34.120 --> 1:30:37.559 but it felt like there were not a slew of 1:30:37.840 --> 1:30:40.680 tropes surrounding blindness that you do see in a lot 1:30:40.720 --> 1:30:43.000 of movies that are like really problematic. I feel like 1:30:43.160 --> 1:30:47.280 this movie avoided a fair number of those tropes. But 1:30:47.640 --> 1:30:51.439 I'm curious what listeners thoughts are on this, particularly anyone 1:30:51.520 --> 1:30:55.760 with a visual impairment. Um. I also so Kent is 1:30:55.880 --> 1:30:59.720 based on a real person who was part of this 1:31:00.200 --> 1:31:04.080 project who was blind, So it's I don't know, Yeah, 1:31:04.120 --> 1:31:07.520 I would be really curious to hear what our listeners 1:31:07.680 --> 1:31:09.720 think on that. But I was I was like, oh, 1:31:09.760 --> 1:31:13.759 it is based on a real person who Jill Tarter 1:31:13.920 --> 1:31:16.479 knew and worked with, So it seems like that they 1:31:16.479 --> 1:31:19.400 were pulling from like some sort of real life dynamic 1:31:19.439 --> 1:31:22.520 that actually existed. But again it's I mean, the conversation 1:31:22.560 --> 1:31:26.000 around actors who who do not have the disability of 1:31:26.000 --> 1:31:29.080 the characters are portraying is like, you know, very ongoing 1:31:29.280 --> 1:31:32.240 conversation that we want to you know, be a part 1:31:32.240 --> 1:31:34.880 of and keep learning about. So shout out to the 1:31:34.880 --> 1:31:38.439 real Kent colors I'm seeing I'm kind of seeing this 1:31:38.479 --> 1:31:41.920 in real time. But there's a documentary on him and 1:31:42.280 --> 1:31:46.960 on his career. Um, he is the first American astronomer 1:31:47.000 --> 1:31:50.599 who was blind from birth and he continued to work 1:31:50.720 --> 1:31:55.840 at the Seti Institute until two thousand five. So very cool. 1:31:56.600 --> 1:31:59.040 It sounds sounds like a legend. I'm like, with all 1:31:59.040 --> 1:32:01.200 this stuff, I like, I don't understand science, but that 1:32:01.280 --> 1:32:05.000 sounds pretty cool. But yeah, shout out, shout out Kent. 1:32:06.040 --> 1:32:10.320 I just wanted to address some of the science stuff 1:32:10.840 --> 1:32:13.360 because it really bothers me. At the end, when James 1:32:13.439 --> 1:32:18.720 Woods goes absolutely like batshit on her, like, like the 1:32:18.720 --> 1:32:22.040 the expectation that she would have evidence and it's on 1:32:22.080 --> 1:32:25.400 her to provide it is it still makes me angry 1:32:25.400 --> 1:32:28.040 in it and it and speaking of like remembering what 1:32:28.080 --> 1:32:30.679 this film felt like when I was young, I remember 1:32:30.760 --> 1:32:34.080 this feeling of feeling frustrated. But what doesn't make sense 1:32:34.120 --> 1:32:38.040 to me is, you know, Palmer at one point and 1:32:38.080 --> 1:32:42.840 her have this conversation about, well, fifty years may pass, 1:32:42.960 --> 1:32:45.320 like it might be a forty five seconds on Earth 1:32:45.360 --> 1:32:47.080 and that might be fifty years, and he's like, are 1:32:47.120 --> 1:32:48.920 you chill with that? And she's like, I'm chill with 1:32:49.000 --> 1:32:50.680 that because this is my life's work and this is 1:32:50.680 --> 1:32:53.320 like what humanity is for and all that. But for 1:32:53.360 --> 1:32:55.800 some reason, like that is not brought back into the 1:32:55.840 --> 1:32:59.800 possible explanation as to why she thinks that she had 1:32:59.840 --> 1:33:03.360 this huge experience and this um like that. Why does 1:33:03.439 --> 1:33:06.840 that not brought up that the space time continuum, the 1:33:06.840 --> 1:33:10.080 inflation of space of time at the end in the Senate, 1:33:10.439 --> 1:33:14.160 why isn't she like, well, as we've talked about, time 1:33:14.200 --> 1:33:17.160 on Earth is forty five seconds, but passing through multiple 1:33:17.200 --> 1:33:20.600 wormholes into you know, lightning years away, time is going 1:33:20.640 --> 1:33:23.520 to be bloated in this way which which they already 1:33:23.640 --> 1:33:27.680 established as being a thing. Even a theologian who is 1:33:27.720 --> 1:33:30.840 not a man of science understands. He's like, you're gonna 1:33:30.840 --> 1:33:32.960 be gone for fifty years, even though it will only 1:33:32.960 --> 1:33:37.040 seem like maybe four years to you, right, So like, yeah, 1:33:37.120 --> 1:33:39.880 you already know that time is different and that is 1:33:39.920 --> 1:33:45.360 perceived differently. Seconds dropping through dropping through will be could 1:33:45.439 --> 1:33:48.760 be a lifetime. And so that's what makes me mad, 1:33:48.840 --> 1:33:51.400 And mostly that that James Wood thought that he's allowed 1:33:51.439 --> 1:33:54.799 to stand up in that sense hearing and turn around 1:33:54.840 --> 1:33:57.040 and yell at her, and like I'm like, who told 1:33:57.080 --> 1:33:59.240 you you're allowed to stand up in those things? It 1:33:59.280 --> 1:34:02.519 seems very intentional that he's like making this show of 1:34:02.520 --> 1:34:05.160 it because it's televised and like all this stuff, and 1:34:05.200 --> 1:34:09.479 like the nineties was so full of women's truth being 1:34:09.520 --> 1:34:14.040 discredited on live television for people to to watch that 1:34:14.160 --> 1:34:16.720 it was like, oh god, there were so many like 1:34:16.840 --> 1:34:19.400 other hearings like that that had nothing to do with 1:34:19.439 --> 1:34:21.920 space that like your head kind of goes to when 1:34:21.920 --> 1:34:25.920 you see like a really aggressive man discrediting what a 1:34:25.960 --> 1:34:29.559 woman says is like the truth. And also, Kelly, when 1:34:29.600 --> 1:34:32.280 you mentioned this earlier, I was like, oh yeah, like 1:34:33.040 --> 1:34:36.400 the fact that James Wood is like blaming equipment failure 1:34:36.560 --> 1:34:40.960 that she didn't design on hers Like for what, like 1:34:41.040 --> 1:34:42.640 if you would think that someone else in the room 1:34:42.680 --> 1:34:45.280 would be like, hold on, she didn't make those shitty 1:34:45.320 --> 1:34:50.040 headphones like Sony did or whatever. You have no evidence. 1:34:50.280 --> 1:34:52.880 You didn't bring back any evidence, Like what the hell 1:34:52.960 --> 1:34:57.200 was she supposed to do besides just experience it? You know. 1:34:57.280 --> 1:35:00.599 It's like she's like, um, yeah, I I'm not like 1:35:00.680 --> 1:35:06.120 a documentarian. I'm a scientist. Experiencing science like it was 1:35:06.920 --> 1:35:09.479 very It made me so angry and then I had 1:35:09.560 --> 1:35:12.599 like like flashbacks to being angry as a kid being 1:35:12.640 --> 1:35:16.479 And I don't know, this film was more formative than 1:35:16.560 --> 1:35:19.519 I thought that. I was quite aware of rewatching and 1:35:19.560 --> 1:35:21.960 I'm like, oh, this did wire itself onto my d 1:35:22.120 --> 1:35:27.200 n A. Yeah, those moments they're frustrating, not because they're 1:35:27.240 --> 1:35:31.120 like poorly written. They're frustrating because like it's representative of 1:35:31.160 --> 1:35:34.920 like again, sexism that exists in the world, and like 1:35:35.320 --> 1:35:39.080 him just not believing women is sexism that exists in 1:35:39.080 --> 1:35:42.679 the world. For them to then go outside and people 1:35:42.720 --> 1:35:45.679 were like mmmmmm, Ellie, yeah, I see that you're there, 1:35:45.840 --> 1:35:49.280 But hey, Mr Mr Perlmer, what do you do you 1:35:49.400 --> 1:35:52.839 believe her? What do you believe? And people are focused 1:35:52.880 --> 1:35:56.720 on the opinion of this man, and it's very frustrating 1:35:56.760 --> 1:35:59.840 because it's sexism that is very familiar to us. You know, 1:36:00.040 --> 1:36:04.240 people only believing a woman if a man is validating her. 1:36:05.000 --> 1:36:09.000 But yeah, it's something that the movie is handling very effectively. 1:36:09.120 --> 1:36:11.599 I think I just hate the part where the man 1:36:11.960 --> 1:36:14.960 who is validating her is also this like wedged in 1:36:15.120 --> 1:36:18.639 love interest. Those I mean, those those studio notes scenes 1:36:18.720 --> 1:36:22.439 are so agregious and so cudible to like, it was 1:36:22.520 --> 1:36:30.560 just like you could cut the like, I just it's painful. 1:36:30.680 --> 1:36:35.000 It's painful to watch. We we have references he at 1:36:35.000 --> 1:36:37.800 the movie, but this is an extremely white movie in 1:36:37.840 --> 1:36:42.760 a way that is very unnecessary. And I mean, the 1:36:42.800 --> 1:36:45.400 only black character that has any real impact in the 1:36:45.439 --> 1:36:49.559 movie is Angela Bassett's character Rachel, who, as we said, 1:36:49.760 --> 1:36:53.200 she she has a strong function, she's a strongly motivated character, 1:36:53.240 --> 1:36:54.960 but we don't know anything about her and we don't 1:36:55.000 --> 1:36:57.479 get any look into her interior life. We don't really 1:36:57.479 --> 1:37:02.280 get to know except until I mean, honestly, we don't 1:37:02.360 --> 1:37:05.640 know what she thinks about, Like Jodie Foster is she 1:37:05.680 --> 1:37:07.400 because we couldn't figure out is she the kind of 1:37:07.479 --> 1:37:10.080 character that's going to want to people to know, or 1:37:10.120 --> 1:37:12.680 maybe she's not. Maybe she's like I've I am a 1:37:12.880 --> 1:37:16.240 bureaucratic person, and I'll keep it quiet, like we just 1:37:16.280 --> 1:37:19.040 don't know, we're well enough to know. I wanted to 1:37:19.120 --> 1:37:24.240 shout out legendary character actor Tucker Smallwood, who plays the 1:37:25.600 --> 1:37:28.720 mission control guy. He almost presses the red button, but 1:37:28.720 --> 1:37:31.640 then I couldn't tell that his character was given a 1:37:31.920 --> 1:37:35.320 name or not. He was like pretty like active for 1:37:35.439 --> 1:37:37.760 like a you know, the climax of the movie. But 1:37:38.080 --> 1:37:40.720 I didn't even figure out. But he's just credited as 1:37:40.800 --> 1:37:45.720 mission director, which is so ridiculous. You're like, what the 1:37:46.640 --> 1:37:49.920 what the like? Could you be lazier and more dismissive 1:37:49.920 --> 1:37:52.680 because he he was. He was great. He was you know, 1:37:52.960 --> 1:37:56.360 he was Mr. Red Button like and and then there 1:37:56.439 --> 1:37:59.880 there um was. I think in the first crew of 1:38:00.040 --> 1:38:02.760 scientists there was one black scientist who says like one 1:38:02.840 --> 1:38:06.080 line and then he's gone, and everyone else it's just 1:38:06.240 --> 1:38:11.360 it's just white people. You have to Japanese um engineers 1:38:11.439 --> 1:38:14.679 or engineers. Yeah, but they but as you said, Kelly, 1:38:14.720 --> 1:38:18.400 they they say like maybe a line and that's it. 1:38:18.720 --> 1:38:22.040 They say nothing. And they also sort of portray a 1:38:22.280 --> 1:38:26.120 stereotype of Japanese scientists, and that is sort of this 1:38:26.240 --> 1:38:31.479 kind of stereotype of of of subservience. And um, I 1:38:31.520 --> 1:38:34.600 find that deeply problematic because you because, especially knowing in 1:38:34.640 --> 1:38:39.240 the book how much the Japanese science and inventors have 1:38:39.640 --> 1:38:42.479 such a say in the in the Final Machine, So 1:38:43.240 --> 1:38:47.559 it's a very American lens of how Japanese people behave 1:38:47.640 --> 1:38:50.439 in a way, That's what I felt. Yeah, I think 1:38:50.479 --> 1:38:53.479 it's like ultimately, I mean, even speaking to to what 1:38:53.560 --> 1:38:56.400 the book represents, like this should very much be a 1:38:56.439 --> 1:39:01.760 global story that is inclusive of more than white Americans 1:39:02.400 --> 1:39:05.720 and and and it seems like that was a very conscious, 1:39:05.760 --> 1:39:10.960 like goober Hollywood style choice is to only center sist 1:39:11.000 --> 1:39:14.840 straight white Americans in this story that should be I mean, 1:39:14.920 --> 1:39:19.040 it's it's like an event for humanity, not middle class 1:39:19.040 --> 1:39:23.040 white Americans. And so that is you know, definitely worth 1:39:23.720 --> 1:39:26.080 you know, continuing to be critical of because we had 1:39:26.080 --> 1:39:30.880 a similar conversation on our episode about Arrival, which we 1:39:31.000 --> 1:39:35.000 covered on our on the Patreon slash Matren similar movies, 1:39:35.080 --> 1:39:38.559 and that a woman in stem is the protagonist of 1:39:38.600 --> 1:39:42.760 the of a movie where aliens make contact with the 1:39:42.800 --> 1:39:46.440 people of Earth, but it is still very like America 1:39:46.800 --> 1:39:53.200 centric narrative, as many Hollywood sci fi films are. I mean, 1:39:53.240 --> 1:39:58.160 I watched, as I said, unfortunately, I watched um Interstellar recently, 1:39:58.800 --> 1:40:02.280 and that one is I missed it when it came out, 1:40:02.400 --> 1:40:06.800 and it's breathtaking how little any other place in the 1:40:06.880 --> 1:40:12.440 whole goddamn world is represented besides America. Like the concept 1:40:12.520 --> 1:40:17.040 is that Earth is dying, that resources are are impoverished 1:40:17.040 --> 1:40:20.720 and depleting, and crops are dying, and all they show 1:40:20.920 --> 1:40:25.280 is this back country American farm. They don't show anywhere 1:40:25.280 --> 1:40:27.559 else in the world that would be absolutely far more 1:40:27.640 --> 1:40:30.120 strapped if the world was if the if there was 1:40:30.200 --> 1:40:33.360 windstorms and you know, climate changes we're dealing with now, 1:40:33.439 --> 1:40:37.760 like as if it wouldn't be Indonesia or anywhere other 1:40:37.840 --> 1:40:41.920 than or in Haiti, where like the very front lines 1:40:42.000 --> 1:40:45.679 of climate change and places where these where that type 1:40:45.680 --> 1:40:49.240 of shift and degree in climate would be most readily felt. 1:40:49.680 --> 1:40:54.280 And it's like it's literally just Jessica Chas Dane and 1:40:54.600 --> 1:40:58.320 Matthew McConaughey's fam who are struggling on their farm and 1:40:58.840 --> 1:41:02.040 they're you know, he's going to fix the world, start 1:41:02.080 --> 1:41:06.439 a new colony with only white people, and it's it's 1:41:06.680 --> 1:41:09.400 a sad tradition of of this type of movie. But 1:41:09.439 --> 1:41:12.080 I also think it filters into this sort of American 1:41:12.120 --> 1:41:14.840 identity of being like the only ones who have ever 1:41:15.439 --> 1:41:19.759 uh participated in the space exploration space or the sorry 1:41:19.840 --> 1:41:23.040 space exploration space like that sounds that's that's not the 1:41:23.080 --> 1:41:27.680 best way to say that space exploration. But yeah, I 1:41:27.720 --> 1:41:29.519 mean like this idea that we're like, we have to 1:41:29.560 --> 1:41:33.479 be the saviors of humanity. Yeah, it's just such as 1:41:33.520 --> 1:41:36.879 an outsider watching it, I mean, outside of being Canadian, 1:41:36.960 --> 1:41:40.240 non American, it has always been such a difficult and 1:41:40.320 --> 1:41:43.600 weird pill to swallow, like the constant flags that you 1:41:43.880 --> 1:41:47.439 American flags on new planets that you see in every 1:41:47.439 --> 1:41:50.719 flipping movie. You know, it is bizarre to me because 1:41:51.120 --> 1:41:55.000 the end the tradition of engineering and science and technology 1:41:55.120 --> 1:41:58.960 and and stem in all forms is so diverse. It 1:41:59.080 --> 1:42:02.960 is so oh god, look, it just makes me want 1:42:02.960 --> 1:42:06.439 to break something in a not in like a less 1:42:06.520 --> 1:42:12.280 violent wait. But you know, Interstellar Arrival has that any 1:42:12.280 --> 1:42:15.680 type of let's save humanity has that ilk of and 1:42:15.800 --> 1:42:21.360 guess who our saviors are Team America. Yeah, I also 1:42:21.720 --> 1:42:25.599 found it. Maybe this is just me, but it gets 1:42:25.680 --> 1:42:28.840 mentioned in the movie that half a trillion dollars is 1:42:29.000 --> 1:42:32.520 spent on this project, and you hear like similar stories 1:42:32.960 --> 1:42:36.880 in real life about all this, Like federal money is 1:42:36.920 --> 1:42:40.639 doing right now, private money, federal money being spent on 1:42:41.040 --> 1:42:44.880 space exploration and stuff like that, which is important people 1:42:44.920 --> 1:42:47.719 who are working on that, Like, I understand that that's important, 1:42:48.200 --> 1:42:52.320 but also like a large percentage of the world's population 1:42:52.520 --> 1:42:54.760 is living in poverty, so like, I don't know, maybe 1:42:54.840 --> 1:42:59.519 let's focus on Earth's issues before we like spend trillions 1:42:59.560 --> 1:43:02.839 of dollars. Right now, you're quoting, this is what Palmer 1:43:02.880 --> 1:43:04.800 was talking about at the beginning of the film, and 1:43:04.840 --> 1:43:09.800 it never panned out. Not you agree with Palmer, Yeah, 1:43:10.080 --> 1:43:12.719 sort of what Palmer was talking about, sort of like, 1:43:12.800 --> 1:43:14.960 you know, how do you how do you explore other 1:43:14.960 --> 1:43:17.360 places when you're not taking care of the people in 1:43:17.400 --> 1:43:20.479 your backyard. And that's not to say that Palmer had 1:43:20.520 --> 1:43:23.759 a point, but he did have some points. Points were made. 1:43:23.840 --> 1:43:27.240 He had one point. Yeah, it never really came up. Again, Um, 1:43:27.280 --> 1:43:31.320 here's my hot take about this movie. Ready, everyone, So 1:43:31.400 --> 1:43:34.080 the you know, all the billions of dollars that they 1:43:34.120 --> 1:43:38.080 spend on this machine and this trip that Ellie takes, 1:43:38.720 --> 1:43:41.559 the conversation that she ends up having with the alien 1:43:42.240 --> 1:43:45.400 could have been an email. They didn't need, they didn't 1:43:45.400 --> 1:43:48.760 need to build a machine. Why why aren't they just 1:43:48.840 --> 1:43:51.760 sending out some emails? You know, I didn't have to 1:43:51.800 --> 1:43:54.240 be a meeting. Could have been an email, thank you? 1:43:54.400 --> 1:43:56.200 I mean, I think that that's if there's anything you know, 1:43:56.320 --> 1:43:58.639 That's another thing that we've learned in the past year. 1:43:58.720 --> 1:44:01.040 There's a lot of things could could have just been 1:44:01.080 --> 1:44:04.920 an email. Yeah, could have been an email. A well 1:44:05.000 --> 1:44:07.400 written email feels as good as a revisit from your 1:44:07.400 --> 1:44:10.639 dead dad, honestly, but also to send it fire off 1:44:10.680 --> 1:44:14.839 a bunch of prime numbers. See if anyone responds, Hey, Ellie, 1:44:14.920 --> 1:44:22.040 it's your dad. That's emoticon? Doesn't she know which emojis? 1:44:22.080 --> 1:44:25.840 Does the aliens feel like alien species? Go with? Oh goodness? 1:44:26.840 --> 1:44:30.880 Does this movie pass the back told test it. I 1:44:30.920 --> 1:44:34.519 think it's technically does, but it's not a very satisfying pass. 1:44:34.640 --> 1:44:37.280 That was what I That was my conclusion. Yeah, there 1:44:37.280 --> 1:44:41.080 were two conversations that I felt were candidates for passing. 1:44:41.479 --> 1:44:45.479 One where Angela Bassett is she's kind of addressing a 1:44:45.520 --> 1:44:48.680 whole room full of people, but she like looks at 1:44:48.720 --> 1:44:52.400 Ellie a couple of times and Ellie responds and Ellie response. 1:44:52.439 --> 1:44:55.200 But it's that conversation where like Rachel is saying that 1:44:55.640 --> 1:44:59.240 for now, like Ellie will remain in charge of this 1:44:59.320 --> 1:45:04.000 like decrypt effort. A few men are mentioned in that conversation, 1:45:04.479 --> 1:45:08.320 so that one's a little murky. And then later when 1:45:08.360 --> 1:45:11.160 Ellie is like, hey, Rachel, do you know where I 1:45:11.200 --> 1:45:14.519 can find a really great dress because women be talking 1:45:14.560 --> 1:45:22.200 about shopping? Yikes, technically, but I think that the context, 1:45:22.280 --> 1:45:24.000 I mean, I don't know, maybe it is a reach 1:45:24.040 --> 1:45:26.200 today the context is like, because I want to look 1:45:26.280 --> 1:45:30.479 nice for Matthew McConaughey. That was the implied context to me. Yes, exactly, 1:45:30.680 --> 1:45:33.920 I'm gonna give this one like a Barrelly pass. It's 1:45:33.920 --> 1:45:35.840 not it's not a great If it is a pass, 1:45:35.960 --> 1:45:40.000 it's not, it's not a great one. Yeah, drawing around conclusion, 1:45:40.040 --> 1:45:41.640 I mean, and also, it's a fucking two and a 1:45:41.640 --> 1:45:43.599 half hour movie. The fact that we have to be 1:45:43.640 --> 1:45:50.639 the splitting hairs here is ridiculous, truly, So yeah, well 1:45:50.680 --> 1:45:54.559 that brings us to our nipple scale on which we 1:45:54.680 --> 1:45:59.120 rate the movie, examining it through an intersectional feminist lens 1:45:59.200 --> 1:46:03.760 on a scale of zero to five nipples, and I 1:46:03.800 --> 1:46:06.439 would say, I think this movie is ahead of its 1:46:06.479 --> 1:46:10.439 time in a lot of ways. I think that it's 1:46:10.439 --> 1:46:14.520 awesome that you have, you know, women in stem visibility 1:46:15.200 --> 1:46:18.719 because this is the type of representation where like little 1:46:18.720 --> 1:46:22.480 girls watching this movie who maybe hadn't seen themselves represented 1:46:22.520 --> 1:46:27.000 before in a like stem role can be like, wow, 1:46:27.200 --> 1:46:30.439 women can be scientists. I can be scientists, Like I 1:46:30.439 --> 1:46:33.160 can go and be a scientist. So um, I think 1:46:33.240 --> 1:46:37.640 that that's really important. And this was, you know, a 1:46:37.680 --> 1:46:40.639 big budget movie that was successful at the box office. 1:46:40.680 --> 1:46:43.080 A lot of people saw it, so that is a 1:46:43.120 --> 1:46:46.200 great thing. I also think it's cool that and this 1:46:46.280 --> 1:46:49.400 is something that also I brought up on our Arrival episode. 1:46:49.720 --> 1:46:52.920 But I love when a movie with a protagonist who 1:46:53.000 --> 1:46:58.719 is a woman explores like deep philosophical existential questions because 1:46:58.760 --> 1:47:03.800 like philosoph fee has been a topic dominated by men, 1:47:04.160 --> 1:47:07.680 not because women are not capable of philosophical debate, and 1:47:07.680 --> 1:47:09.479 not because they haven't been doing the work. It just 1:47:09.560 --> 1:47:13.080 hasn't been preserved and uplifted in the same way exactly, 1:47:13.240 --> 1:47:16.479 And I also think I think that's like the the 1:47:16.520 --> 1:47:20.519 backside to the Bechtel test is that without women taught, 1:47:20.720 --> 1:47:22.639 when you have films where women are only talking about men, 1:47:22.760 --> 1:47:26.800 it means all the important philosophical like bomb dropping political 1:47:27.640 --> 1:47:31.160 conversations about the film are happening by the male characters. 1:47:31.200 --> 1:47:34.000 Like that I always think is the interesting flip side 1:47:34.000 --> 1:47:36.680 to the Bechtel test is like, for all the conversations 1:47:36.720 --> 1:47:39.479 women are having about only men, the male the male 1:47:39.560 --> 1:47:42.800 conversations can be about what is this film trying to say? 1:47:42.880 --> 1:47:44.840 And what is how is it trying to change the world. 1:47:45.160 --> 1:47:50.080 So for for her to participate in this discussion around 1:47:50.160 --> 1:47:55.519 like faith versus science, for you know, evidence versus like 1:47:55.760 --> 1:47:58.360 all you know, all that kind of stuff, I really 1:47:58.400 --> 1:48:01.320 appreciated because like, for exact ample counter to this would 1:48:01.360 --> 1:48:04.839 be in our Da Vinci Code episode another Matreon episode. 1:48:04.880 --> 1:48:08.080 But um, you have these two men talking about like 1:48:08.600 --> 1:48:11.599 it's not philosophy, but they're talking about you know, history 1:48:11.880 --> 1:48:15.559 and like all all this like Christian mythology and stuff 1:48:15.560 --> 1:48:18.479 like that, and then Audrey Tattoo is just like what, 1:48:18.720 --> 1:48:23.040 I don't like she doesn't get to contribute anything. So 1:48:23.080 --> 1:48:28.280 Audrey tattoo and the Da Vinci Code. I don't know 1:48:28.320 --> 1:48:30.160 why that was the first example that came to my head, 1:48:30.200 --> 1:48:34.160 but yeah, so I appreciate that about this movie. The 1:48:34.600 --> 1:48:38.320 sexism that Ellie is on the receiving end of is 1:48:38.360 --> 1:48:41.240 definitely present. I think it's interesting the way that it 1:48:41.320 --> 1:48:44.479 was handled in that it's like very present, but like 1:48:44.880 --> 1:48:47.960 kind of subtle, or it's like not super explicit. And 1:48:48.160 --> 1:48:50.680 you know, the idea that like she is not believed 1:48:51.240 --> 1:48:53.519 that she is kind of she is like accused of 1:48:53.560 --> 1:48:59.479 being delusional and hysterical, she is often overlooked or you know, 1:48:59.520 --> 1:49:02.360 men are take credit for her work. Uh are all 1:49:02.400 --> 1:49:08.400 like very real and present things that women experience. And um, 1:49:08.400 --> 1:49:11.599 I thought that was all interesting. But then it's got 1:49:11.600 --> 1:49:16.080 its problems. You've got this wedged in romantic subplot that 1:49:16.320 --> 1:49:19.400 I can't think of a subplot, a romantic subplot that 1:49:19.479 --> 1:49:25.439 has ever been less necessary in a movie. And more obviously, Yeah, 1:49:28.120 --> 1:49:34.280 it just made me feel yucky. Um. The extreme whiteness 1:49:34.400 --> 1:49:38.799 of the film, the stre extreme again like US centric 1:49:39.080 --> 1:49:47.400 nature of the narrative. UM assists white, middle class, highly educated, 1:49:47.520 --> 1:49:53.400 able bodied woman being representative all of humanity. So um, 1:49:53.479 --> 1:49:55.919 you know it's got some like of the time nineties 1:49:56.000 --> 1:49:59.599 era problems, but I also think it's ahead of its 1:49:59.600 --> 1:50:03.000 time and other ways. So I would I want to 1:50:03.000 --> 1:50:06.160 give this like a three somewhere between, like a three 1:50:06.280 --> 1:50:11.080 three and a half range nipple wise, and I'll give 1:50:11.439 --> 1:50:15.040 one to Jodie Foster. I'll give one nipple to Jill Tarter, 1:50:15.760 --> 1:50:21.120 I will give one nipple to Andrew In, and I 1:50:21.200 --> 1:50:25.360 will give all throw in like a quarter nipple to 1:50:25.560 --> 1:50:32.599 the phrase okay to go, I'll meet you there. Three 1:50:32.600 --> 1:50:36.400 and a quarter sounds about right, Um, for all the 1:50:36.400 --> 1:50:40.200 reasons you described, this should very much be a global story, 1:50:40.240 --> 1:50:43.600 and I think that that's something that we us. Centrism 1:50:43.760 --> 1:50:47.840 in basically all of Western film is definitely a huge issue, 1:50:47.880 --> 1:50:50.759 but I feel like it crops up in this genre 1:50:50.840 --> 1:50:54.880 particularly all the time in a way that like I 1:50:54.960 --> 1:50:58.960 can't really think of a space movie that I've seen 1:50:59.120 --> 1:51:01.240 and I haven't seen that, Like, I can't really think 1:51:01.240 --> 1:51:03.679 of like a space movie that doesn't have this kind 1:51:03.680 --> 1:51:07.320 of underbrewing of American patriotism to it in a way 1:51:07.360 --> 1:51:11.519 that is like definitely insidious and long overdue to be 1:51:11.840 --> 1:51:15.760 challenged in like a meaningful way, because it is like 1:51:16.439 --> 1:51:19.160 because I enjoyed this genre, but there always is kind 1:51:19.200 --> 1:51:22.760 of a flag wavy element to it that, um, this 1:51:22.800 --> 1:51:26.720 movie is not the most guilty of that's probably independently 1:51:27.800 --> 1:51:32.959 maybe Armageddon. Armageddon is pretty flag wavy too, like but 1:51:32.960 --> 1:51:35.800 but but it is like, you know, something we should 1:51:35.880 --> 1:51:38.920 keep talking about because it is like even in a 1:51:39.000 --> 1:51:43.120 movie like That's where it isn't the most forced on you, 1:51:43.240 --> 1:51:46.439 it is still very much forced on you. Um I 1:51:46.840 --> 1:51:51.439 I do I like how this movie, did you know, 1:51:51.479 --> 1:51:54.880 they did their homework in a way that most movies don't. Um. 1:51:54.960 --> 1:52:00.160 They spoke to female scientists who have experienced this you know, 1:52:00.280 --> 1:52:03.680 subcategory of sexism and kind of put it into the 1:52:03.720 --> 1:52:06.160 script in a in a way that flowed very naturally. 1:52:06.200 --> 1:52:09.639 I do wish that Jodie Foster's character had another woman 1:52:09.680 --> 1:52:12.920 to relate to about this um or speak too, and 1:52:12.960 --> 1:52:14.920 that would have been a way better use of our 1:52:14.960 --> 1:52:19.200 time than making us look at Matthew McConaughey's scarf that said, 1:52:19.960 --> 1:52:23.920 I really like, I don't know, I was very moved 1:52:23.920 --> 1:52:27.479 by like parts of this movie, and a lot of 1:52:27.520 --> 1:52:30.880 that is just like Jodie Foster. But um, it does 1:52:30.920 --> 1:52:35.360 seem like this is a project that was driven by 1:52:35.439 --> 1:52:40.080 even even in a majority male creative team, that like 1:52:40.360 --> 1:52:44.800 the key creative decisions were pushed through by female producers, 1:52:45.200 --> 1:52:49.800 by Andre and by by Jill Tarter and and by 1:52:49.880 --> 1:52:53.640 Jodie Foster. So yeah, you know, this should have been 1:52:53.640 --> 1:52:57.080 a more global movie. But I still think it holds 1:52:57.160 --> 1:53:00.000 up in more ways than I was expecting. So get 1:53:00.040 --> 1:53:02.280 at three in a quarter and yeah, I'll give one 1:53:02.320 --> 1:53:06.360 to Jody, one to Jill, one to Ann and I'll 1:53:06.360 --> 1:53:14.439 give the last quarter two the headphones that didn't. But 1:53:14.600 --> 1:53:16.120 I want to take a nipple. I want to give 1:53:16.200 --> 1:53:20.400 a nipple to Angela Bassett. So who's on the chopping block? 1:53:20.680 --> 1:53:24.519 I'm just going to redistribute it equally. So, um, that's good. 1:53:24.560 --> 1:53:27.400 That's good. You're gonna you're gonna split a number that 1:53:27.479 --> 1:53:32.840 cannot be split into a transcendental pie. Honestly, three in 1:53:32.880 --> 1:53:35.720 a quarter is so close to pie. I'm gonna give 1:53:35.720 --> 1:53:43.240 it pineapples. That's infinite nipples, pineapples, pineapples, and um, I'm 1:53:43.280 --> 1:53:46.720 gonna all distribute them evenly between the people. I said, 1:53:46.760 --> 1:53:52.720 plus Angela Bassett pineapple? Um, what about you, Kelly, Well, yeah, 1:53:52.800 --> 1:53:56.400 I'm really into this pineapple. I there is so much. 1:53:57.200 --> 1:54:00.200 I do have a really interesting bookend with this film, 1:54:00.200 --> 1:54:03.840 as I've watched it as a young um, a young girl, 1:54:03.960 --> 1:54:06.840 someone who has treated like a girl with as to 1:54:06.880 --> 1:54:09.640 bring it back to my many male cousins and in 1:54:09.680 --> 1:54:12.640 the world I grew up in, I will say, for 1:54:12.680 --> 1:54:17.040 all of its problems and it's um America centrism, which 1:54:17.280 --> 1:54:21.840 if I can provide an alternate, uh, Danny Boyle's Sunshine 1:54:21.960 --> 1:54:23.439 is a really good example of I think of an 1:54:23.439 --> 1:54:27.320 American made film that doesn't have that sort of patriotism. Uh. 1:54:27.680 --> 1:54:31.519 Tarkovsky's Solaris. Solaris is one of the most beautiful sci 1:54:31.600 --> 1:54:34.920 fi films ever made that deals with, like, you know, 1:54:35.000 --> 1:54:37.680 going up into space on a mission, a suicidal mission 1:54:37.720 --> 1:54:41.280 of hope for humanity sort of thing. But I will say, 1:54:41.320 --> 1:54:44.280 for all of its problems and its lack of representation, 1:54:44.480 --> 1:54:49.240 its lack of representing humanity and all of it, I 1:54:49.280 --> 1:54:52.920 can't disregard how this movie made me feel as a 1:54:52.960 --> 1:54:58.440 young girl, and now I cannot disregard how impactful it 1:54:58.600 --> 1:55:01.880 was and how it felt. Watch that moment where she's 1:55:02.920 --> 1:55:05.360 running and the science is happening and she's spitting out 1:55:05.440 --> 1:55:08.760 all these crazy things like it's those moments where you 1:55:08.840 --> 1:55:13.360 don't quite register or or you've registered the sexism You've 1:55:13.400 --> 1:55:16.120 experienced your whole life on such a molecular level that 1:55:16.200 --> 1:55:19.040 when it's being encountered with such a brazen expression of 1:55:19.040 --> 1:55:22.120 a woman following her passion in an area dominated by men, 1:55:22.720 --> 1:55:25.240 you feel like bubbling up from your stomach and your 1:55:25.280 --> 1:55:28.040 gut being like like, oh my gosh, I've never how 1:55:28.080 --> 1:55:31.320 cool is it that she's racing through here and talking 1:55:31.320 --> 1:55:34.840 on the walkies. So I'm going to give it like 1:55:34.880 --> 1:55:38.560 a really, I gotta give all four nipples to Jodie Foster, 1:55:39.800 --> 1:55:44.640 uh and say her and mostly Jodie Foster's eyes like 1:55:44.760 --> 1:55:50.120 just those bigwelling, truthful pools of truth looking into the stars, 1:55:50.360 --> 1:55:54.320 Like I that's the film for me, is going the 1:55:54.360 --> 1:55:57.040 rest of it, All the problems of it sort of 1:55:57.640 --> 1:56:00.040 I think are worthy of discussion, which we have of 1:56:00.400 --> 1:56:04.920 you know, we've discussed it. But what you cannot with 1:56:04.960 --> 1:56:07.760 all the problems and the scarves and the McConaughey, even 1:56:07.760 --> 1:56:11.600 though he tries to make the scenes about himself, nothing 1:56:11.800 --> 1:56:14.960 nothing comes close to Jodie Foster's eyes looking at stars. 1:56:15.240 --> 1:56:18.000 There's just nothing. And the way I felt when I 1:56:18.040 --> 1:56:20.440 was twelve watching this film or thirteen or where however 1:56:20.480 --> 1:56:26.680 old I was versus now is very similar. So for nipples, 1:56:26.680 --> 1:56:30.160 for Jodie Foster's eyes, Yeah, she has more chemistry with 1:56:30.360 --> 1:56:34.320 the the sky and the cosmos that she's looking at 1:56:34.440 --> 1:56:38.280 than she does with Matthew McConaughey. And it's so true 1:56:38.320 --> 1:56:41.520 and how beautiful is that? Like, think about how easy 1:56:41.560 --> 1:56:44.120 it would have been to make this character male, and 1:56:44.200 --> 1:56:47.360 to say, in terms of representation of a woman just 1:56:47.440 --> 1:56:50.920 following her dreams and having an interest for her life 1:56:50.960 --> 1:56:54.120 and her for her heart, that is that doesn't involve 1:56:54.160 --> 1:56:56.360 a male, even though Mathe McConaughey is there. It's like 1:56:56.400 --> 1:56:58.960 her her love interest is the star's end of story. 1:56:59.840 --> 1:57:02.560 We didn't need to add anyone else. Well, Kelly, thank 1:57:02.600 --> 1:57:05.320 you so much for for being here, for joining us. 1:57:05.400 --> 1:57:08.400 I can't believe we recorded for eighteen hours with you. 1:57:08.480 --> 1:57:12.040 Oh my goodness, creating. I know, it's like what happened 1:57:12.040 --> 1:57:14.600 in Static. We don't know, okay to go, that's yeah, 1:57:14.760 --> 1:57:17.280 I did. I had to edit out a lot, so yeah, 1:57:17.360 --> 1:57:20.040 this is like a two hour episode that originally was 1:57:20.120 --> 1:57:23.000 eighteen hours. Thank you for being here. What tell us 1:57:23.040 --> 1:57:26.120 where we can find you on social media anything you'd 1:57:26.120 --> 1:57:30.200 like to plug, et cetera. Oh man, uh, well, on 1:57:30.240 --> 1:57:35.040 social media, I'm on Instagram at Kelly and Phyllis. That's 1:57:35.080 --> 1:57:38.200 pretty much the only I'm on Twitter too, but I'm 1:57:38.200 --> 1:57:42.040 thinking of leaving shortly, so probably for the best, Yeah, 1:57:42.160 --> 1:57:45.120 probably the best. I don't use it really, but so 1:57:45.320 --> 1:57:47.600 find on Instagram. I post a lot of photos of 1:57:47.680 --> 1:57:50.760 trees and nature's I'm just like got an Instagram account 1:57:50.800 --> 1:57:54.360 for the Terrence Malick fans out there. I just like nature. Um. 1:57:54.520 --> 1:57:56.360 I have a film coming out or no, that is 1:57:56.400 --> 1:57:59.560 out already on v o D anywhere you rent movies 1:57:59.600 --> 1:58:04.120 called Gore Daddy, which is about a woman brazenly trying 1:58:04.160 --> 1:58:07.720 to make art and surrounded by patriarchy and men and 1:58:07.840 --> 1:58:10.040 men trying to control her voice and her trying to 1:58:10.040 --> 1:58:13.560 find it. So I will say that this film very 1:58:13.640 --> 1:58:16.800 much is was on the origin story of the film 1:58:16.800 --> 1:58:19.640 that I of this film, Sugar Daddy. So that's that's 1:58:19.640 --> 1:58:22.040 what I want to plug, because it's not set in space. 1:58:22.120 --> 1:58:26.760 It's setting a grimy apartment in Toronto. But is that 1:58:26.800 --> 1:58:29.360 not space? Like, let's be let's be real if anything 1:58:29.400 --> 1:58:34.440 could be space. Thank you so much for being with us, Kelly, 1:58:34.440 --> 1:58:36.560 we really appreciate it and thank you for bringing us 1:58:36.560 --> 1:58:38.600 this movie. It was like, it was such a fun 1:58:38.680 --> 1:58:40.720 there's so much to talk about. It's been a it's 1:58:40.720 --> 1:58:43.520 been a long requested movie. So finally I'm glad we 1:58:43.600 --> 1:58:46.360 finally got to do it. Oh man, that's so happy, 1:58:46.400 --> 1:58:49.640 And thank you for like what a speaking of dreams? 1:58:49.640 --> 1:58:51.240 Like how fun? Is it? Just a chat for like 1:58:51.560 --> 1:58:56.000 two hours, two plus hours, eighteen hours? Like, man, people 1:58:56.080 --> 1:59:00.080 who wanted your Your podcast is so valuable and on 1:59:00.200 --> 1:59:02.400 and it speaks to a type of discussion that I 1:59:02.440 --> 1:59:04.960 could have at all times. So I'm happy to do 1:59:05.000 --> 1:59:12.000 it sort of mildly professionally with you guys. Come back anytime. Um. 1:59:12.080 --> 1:59:14.920 And then you can follow us on Twitter and Instagram 1:59:14.960 --> 1:59:19.960 at Bechtel Cast and subscribe to our Matreon where we 1:59:20.000 --> 1:59:23.360 have covered Arrival and Da Vinci Code and other movies 1:59:23.840 --> 1:59:27.760 but I didn't reference on today's episode. Uh that's five 1:59:27.760 --> 1:59:30.640 dollars a month. It gets you access to two bonus 1:59:30.640 --> 1:59:34.920 episodes plus the entire back catalog, and that's at Patreon 1:59:35.000 --> 1:59:38.680 dot com, slash becktel Cast, and you can get our 1:59:38.760 --> 1:59:42.400 merch at t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast 1:59:42.520 --> 1:59:48.800 for all your various items with our Stefan Aney. We 1:59:48.840 --> 1:59:52.960 don't have a space suit yet yet, but we'll see 1:59:53.240 --> 2:00:02.360 or add or a headband. No flimsy radio shack. F Oh, 2:00:02.400 --> 2:00:06.160 that's so funny. That's the real merge from that film. Yeah, 2:00:06.200 --> 2:00:09.960 for sure, that was the merche opportunity um and I 2:00:10.000 --> 2:00:13.840 think otherwise, Uh, we're okay to go, okay, we're okay 2:00:13.840 --> 2:00:15.280 to go. Bye bye, bye bye.