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Speaker 1: On the Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef in

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Speaker 1: best start changing it with the bec Del Cast. Hello listeners,

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Speaker 1: it's Jamie and Caitlin and we're coming to you from

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Speaker 1: the future. Here's the deal. We recorded this episode a

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Speaker 1: while ago. We recorded it, I think a few months

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Speaker 1: ago now, and because this is an episode about space,

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Speaker 1: we referenced the potential of a billionaire space race and

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Speaker 1: how ridiculous that is in the episode. But when we

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Speaker 1: recorded it, it wasn't quite as full blown a thing

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Speaker 1: as it is now. So if it sounds a little off,

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Speaker 1: that is the reason why. But while we've got you here,

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Speaker 1: uh future Jamie and future Caitlin. Uh yeah, we just

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Speaker 1: wanted to sort of bring everybody, I guess up to speed.

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Speaker 1: You probably know. Unfortunately, because billionaire, I was sure, do

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Speaker 1: you get a lot of press? Oh? I thought we

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Speaker 1: were going to be talking about space, jam a new legacy?

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Speaker 1: Is that not the space that you saw it? But

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Speaker 1: do you did you? Is it like as completely bizarre

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Speaker 1: as it looks? Because it looks so bizarre Why is

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Speaker 1: a mystery machine in it? Why are the people from

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Speaker 1: a clockwork orange in it? Right? Yeah, because the movie

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Speaker 1: is more concerned about reminding you that other Warner Brothers

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Speaker 1: intellectual properties exist than it is about telling a story

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Speaker 1: that makes any sense. The plot like is borderline incomprehensible.

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Speaker 1: The movie is just like one frame of sensory overload

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Speaker 1: after another. It's unwatchable. Is it good bad or is

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Speaker 1: it just like No, it's just a bummer. I want

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Speaker 1: to I'll still watch it because I have HBO Max,

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Speaker 1: but like, it just looks bad bad. Oh god, so

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Speaker 1: depressing it Whenever whenever a movie is like we're just

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Speaker 1: um here for I P, it's like, well, Jesus, not

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Speaker 1: not worth it. It was very disappointed. Was hoping for

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Speaker 1: a fun you know, because the first Space Jam is fun,

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Speaker 1: a classic. This one is not. Yeah. I I think

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Speaker 1: the only more depressing space topic than the fact that

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Speaker 1: Space Jam two sucks is that the fact that there's

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Speaker 1: a three way billionaire white guy's space race going on

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Speaker 1: right now. It's the most just dystopian thing in the world.

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Speaker 1: It's between three of the biggest losers on the planet

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Speaker 1: that like it shouldn't be illegal to kill them in

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Speaker 1: Minecraft of course. Um, and those losers are Elon Musk,

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Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos, and Richard Branson. So yeah, that is now

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Speaker 1: officially a thing. Richard Branson has already been to space.

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Speaker 1: It goes without saying that, you know it. We talked

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Speaker 1: about this in the episode a little bit as well.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that, you know, exploring space is not

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Speaker 1: the problem here. I understand human curiosity. It makes sense

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Speaker 1: that people want to floor space. It's the fact that

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Speaker 1: these motherfucker's are going to space for PR instead of

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Speaker 1: curing world hunger, which they literally could do. And so

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Speaker 1: it is just like disgusting and embarrassing in every potential way.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to just read a quick quote, uh that

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Speaker 1: came out in July from a piece that I really

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Speaker 1: liked that I felt like broke this down pretty well

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Speaker 1: in uh, oh my god, Jacobin magazine. I've never tried

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Speaker 1: to say that out loud. The writer is Luke Savage,

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Speaker 1: and he says this quote more straightforwardly. Extreme wealth in

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Speaker 1: the capitalist age is by definition engaged in a constant

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Speaker 1: and desperate scramble for new sources of ethical legitimacy. Billionaires

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Speaker 1: need a public facing reason to exist, and for the

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Speaker 1: time being at least, owning the rights to bits of

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Speaker 1: paper and expropriating surplus value still doesn't quite cut the mustard. If,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, plutocratic pursuits and the impossibly decadent

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Speaker 1: lifestyle surrounding them can be packaged as extensions of a

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Speaker 1: progressive human project, so much the better. The likes of

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Speaker 1: private islands, luxury estates, and Silicon Valley sweatshops are now

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Speaker 1: justifying themselves with all the pomp and sober purpose of

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Speaker 1: Neil Armstrong taking his first step onto the surface of

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Speaker 1: the moon unquote and um, you know five dollar words aside.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that that kind of like puts together.

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Speaker 1: You know. The issue isn't a curiosity in space. It's

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Speaker 1: repackaging billionaires going to space for attention and also for

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Speaker 1: again personal profit in the effort to literally colonize space.

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Speaker 1: That is the problem. Uh so bad time pr wise

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Speaker 1: for space. But bravely we're doing a contact episode anyways. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Jodie Foster going to space. Fine, Jeff Bezo is going

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Speaker 1: to space. No thinks that's my Wouldn't it be interesting

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Speaker 1: if there was a little accident to be wild, if

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Speaker 1: this episode came up, and then it was like, it's

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Speaker 1: just I feel too powerful at this point because I

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Speaker 1: did call j Lo and ben Affleck getting back together,

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Speaker 1: so I have to be careful. So what I'm saying

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Speaker 1: is what if the spaceship blew up? So the interesting look. Okay,

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Speaker 1: enjoy the episode. The cast. Hey Jamie, Hey Caitlin. No,

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Speaker 1: it's not Caitlin, it's it's your father. But it's actually

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Speaker 1: also not your father. It's it's an I'm an alien.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, this is so confusing. I hope we're

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Speaker 1: on an island that looks like a screen saver. Yes

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Speaker 1: we are, but actually that's what it looks like to you.

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Speaker 1: But actually we're we're in we're on a star. We're

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Speaker 1: near a star. We're on a planet. We're in the sky,

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Speaker 1: on a planet near the star Vega. Oh okay, that

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Speaker 1: tracks for me. Oh and have you just you just haven't?

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Speaker 1: Why haven't you reached out before? Now? I like how

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Speaker 1: he's just like, that's just kind of how it works here.

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Speaker 1: You're like, sir, excuse me, I texted you twenty six

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Speaker 1: years ago and you're just now responding. Rude. That would

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Speaker 1: have been that would have that explanation in that scene

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Speaker 1: would have made way more sense to me. Have like

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Speaker 1: time works so differently. I just got here, it feels like.

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Speaker 1: But instead he pulls like kind of you know, a

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Speaker 1: classically male thing to do would just be like I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I just I don't know. It seemed like

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Speaker 1: you're fun. See it was a what's a big deal?

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Speaker 1: This is a factel cast? Uh have j B loft I.

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Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Darante and this is our podcast

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Speaker 1: where we take a look at your favorite or least

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Speaker 1: favorite movies with an intersectional feminist lens. And today we're

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Speaker 1: taking a little a little pod all the way to space,

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Speaker 1: a little pod cast. This is our little Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is when. That's how the way that Jodie Foster feels

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Speaker 1: when she gets into the pod, how I feel when

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Speaker 1: we press record. I'm what did she say? She's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm good to go, I'm okay to go, I'm okay

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Speaker 1: to there. That's what Caitlyn and I are doing for

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Speaker 1: like ten minutes before every eppisode starts, and we're getting

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Speaker 1: more and more afraid, and then there's people in another

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Speaker 1: room that are like, that's what. That's what Aristotle was

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Speaker 1: like before before we you know, it's a whole thing,

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Speaker 1: and then we record for eighteen hours, but it just

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Speaker 1: an audio never saves. Yeah, it's just static too soon. Listen, listen.

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Speaker 1: Things happen listeners, and and sometimes audio corrupt. Said, you

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Speaker 1: live and you'll learn. But this is our that that's

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Speaker 1: not going to happen today. That is not going to

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Speaker 1: happen today. Today we're talking about contact and we have

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Speaker 1: an incredible guest with us here. We certainly do. Kelly

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Speaker 1: is a filmmaker, actor, writer and producer and actor on

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Speaker 1: the film Sugar Dad The It's Kelly McCormick. Welcome Wormle

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Speaker 1: all Ready to go high Go? What was it okay

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Speaker 1: to go? Okay? To go? Okay? To go okay? To go?

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Speaker 1: Quite literally, how I feel entering a zoom chat At

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Speaker 1: all times I'm like, am I ready to go? Am

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Speaker 1: I not ready to go? It's horrific. Like when you're

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Speaker 1: in the waiting room you have to like confirm your video,

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Speaker 1: You're like, oh, I guess that is how I look

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Speaker 1: okay to go? Yeah, Like the series of questions it

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Speaker 1: asks you where you're expecting for your video to pop

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Speaker 1: up and it become your new reality, and it just

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Speaker 1: says weight we want to know if your audio is working,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, it's I'm okay to go, and you're like,

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Speaker 1: what we need to know if your video is working?

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Speaker 1: I am okay to go, like I need to go.

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Speaker 1: It's truly words to live by. Honestly. Yeah, um, you

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Speaker 1: know what, Jamie, we forgot to describe what the Bechtel

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Speaker 1: test is. Oh my gosh, we were not okay to go.

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Speaker 1: It turns out we after all that to do, we

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Speaker 1: were not okay to go. Well, we can tell them now.

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Speaker 1: It's unfortunately, this isn't rocket science, and it's okay if

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Speaker 1: we suck up just a little bit. Yes. The Bechtel

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Speaker 1: Test is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel,

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Speaker 1: sometimes called the Bechtel Whilst Test. I'd like how we

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Speaker 1: have like it's just like I don't even have to

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Speaker 1: think about it when I describe it. It's just like

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Speaker 1: it's true anyway. It's a media metric that requires, for

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Speaker 1: our purposes our rendition of the test, two people of

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Speaker 1: a marginalized gender have names, have to speak to each

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Speaker 1: other about something other than a man for a two

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Speaker 1: line exchange of dialogue or like for us, it's a

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Speaker 1: meaningful conversation that might impact the narrative in some way. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: you know, not every movie is going to pass. I

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Speaker 1: guess we'll just see. We'll have to set does I

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Speaker 1: actually did. I as time goes on, As we talked

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Speaker 1: about all the time, I always like, we're always forgetting

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Speaker 1: to pay attention to whether it pass because it's you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like not the most important thing we discussed by

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Speaker 1: a mile. But I did pay I don't I was.

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Speaker 1: I was on my toes for this one the same. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think probably. I think it probably is when there's

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Speaker 1: only like two female characters, you pay closer attention because

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I just I just wonder right right? Yes, So, yes,

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Speaker 1: today's movie is Contact Kelly. What's your what's your relationship

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Speaker 1: with this movie? What's your history with this I have

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Speaker 1: a really emotional history with this, which I was reliving

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Speaker 1: last night when I rewatched the film for the first time,

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Speaker 1: not on VHS, which was the last film. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: it's actually sort of special. And the more I thought

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Speaker 1: about it, you know, watching the film and musing over it,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I guess that is a pretty special connection. Um.

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Speaker 1: I grew up with a very large family of many many,

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Speaker 1: many cousins, and we went up to this wilderness sort

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Speaker 1: of space with no electricity and no hot running water

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Speaker 1: every summer, and we were super nerds, like absolute super nerds.

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Speaker 1: We played dungeons and dragons, We played magic cards, we

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Speaker 1: played Fifth Age. I read pretty much exclusively science fiction

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Speaker 1: and fantasy from age like ten to now. That was

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Speaker 1: all I sort of like, no, I guess I've read

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Speaker 1: other things now, but but that was are like the

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Speaker 1: lifeblood of our family dynamic. That's what we talked about

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Speaker 1: the most. And I had eleven older cousins that were

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Speaker 1: all male. That was the first female born like cousin

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Speaker 1: of the group of people of the of the major

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Speaker 1: super family. And one of my older cousins, Kevin, was

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Speaker 1: our smartest, most um shrewd minded, sci Fi obsessed cousin.

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Speaker 1: And and for people who have cousins, like naming cousins

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Speaker 1: as these like icons, I feel like we'll feel familiar,

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Speaker 1: you know, like these archetypes, like everyone everyone has a

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Speaker 1: sci fi cousin, everyone has and he he was the

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Speaker 1: one who ran all of our fifth Age campaigns and

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Speaker 1: are which is sort of a hybrid of or not

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Speaker 1: a hybrid and extension of Dungeons and Dragons that plays

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Speaker 1: with the Dragon Lines books. And he was the one

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Speaker 1: who would be like the game master of all of

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Speaker 1: our magic card games. And he was the guy who

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Speaker 1: we all sort of looked up to for the sci

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Speaker 1: fi fantasy um like advice, and he was the one

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Speaker 1: who was like the last word on all of it.

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Speaker 1: And he started reading Carl Sagan's book Contact, and um,

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Speaker 1: I remember him. I was quite young. I was like twelve,

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Speaker 1: and I remember him reading this copy that had been

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Speaker 1: up on the island in a stack of books that

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Speaker 1: has probably seventy five years old. And he's reading it

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Speaker 1: and he's talking about it, and he's talking about transcendental

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Speaker 1: numbers and how much math there is in it, and

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Speaker 1: talking about pie and and and I was really into math,

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Speaker 1: and I was really into science and stuff, and obviously

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Speaker 1: science fiction. And I kind of got this feeling that

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Speaker 1: if I could understand Contact, if I could read Contact

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Speaker 1: and understand it, then maybe Kevin would like talk. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was so young, but I just I looked up

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Speaker 1: to him so much. Well, maybe he'll maybe he'll talk

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Speaker 1: to me. And I'll and I'll be like one of

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Speaker 1: the one of the smarter cousins. So he had this

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Speaker 1: copy that he read in the corner of the cabin

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Speaker 1: and then when he went to bed, or when he

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Speaker 1: put it down, I would secretly pick it up and

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Speaker 1: try and like understand because the yeah, the Carl Sagan

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Speaker 1: book is it's much more. It's it's technically hard science fiction.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of classified in that, um, really logic based,

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Speaker 1: math based, sort of Isaac asimof school of science fiction

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Speaker 1: rather than like the philosophical what is philosophical but the

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Speaker 1: other end of the spectrum, which would be like Orwellian

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Speaker 1: sci fi, which is a little more digestible sociology. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I read the book, or I know I tried

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Speaker 1: to understand it. I think I did, and then I

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Speaker 1: begged my mom to rent it from Blockbuster. I think

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Speaker 1: I think it was a Blockbuster rent and I think

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Speaker 1: we just paid that late fee so many times because

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Speaker 1: I think I lost it or stole it away because

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Speaker 1: I watched it so many times. Um, and uh, I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen it since since before last night, and last

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Speaker 1: night I watched it and there was so many things

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Speaker 1: I forgot. I guess conflated from the book, mainly Matthew McConaughey.

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Speaker 1: I completely wrote out, my little feminist brain wrote out

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Speaker 1: Matthew McConney in the nineties and early two straight out

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Speaker 1: of that movie. Honestly, were you wrong? I was not.

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Speaker 1: I it's very interesting to sort of now I can

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Speaker 1: kind of parse how it diverges from the book and

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Speaker 1: he is certainly. I mean, we'll get into it, but

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's get into it. Yeah, I'm I'm so

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Speaker 1: curious to hear about because I didn't do too much

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Speaker 1: research on the book, but the Matthew McConaughey character and

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Speaker 1: storyline just waked the studio notes to me. I'm very

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Speaker 1: curious of how much of that is is the case? Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I did read the book when I was somewhere between

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Speaker 1: twelve and fifteen, but from my memory, um, there was

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Speaker 1: so First of all, let's just I just want to

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Speaker 1: say Jodie Foster, like I just want to say first name, Jody,

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Speaker 1: last nime Foster. Let's just start with that, because I mean,

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Speaker 1: now I can look back on the book and I

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Speaker 1: just see her face and that's imbuing the text with

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Speaker 1: such marvel that I'm really excited to sort of revisit

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Speaker 1: that book. But as I remember it, there are a

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Speaker 1: couple of weird alterations from the book. Number one, her

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Speaker 1: mother is not dead, And uh, I am Canadian, so

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Speaker 1: I will say I've had a couple of conversations with

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Speaker 1: Canadian filmmakers and American filmmakers about how fascinating it is

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Speaker 1: that American studio movies kill off mothers and Canadian movies

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Speaker 1: kill off fathers. It's like a very interesting I guess

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Speaker 1: if you look at Disney movies, is like the most

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Speaker 1: obvious priganic, sort of big marquee version of that. But

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Speaker 1: there always seems to be this dead mother, absent mother.

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Speaker 1: She dies in the first ten minutes, um, and the

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Speaker 1: mother in this film is sort of no different. But

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Speaker 1: in the book she is this constant character um kind

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Speaker 1: of pushing dr Ellie. As I believe it again, thirteen

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Speaker 1: year old brain told your old brain, pushing dr Ellie

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Speaker 1: to make a choice between the personal and the professional

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Speaker 1: at all times. And she has this Yeah, she has

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Speaker 1: this father that she idolizes, but then he dies and

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Speaker 1: then her stepdad is not as good and then the

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Speaker 1: whole story you know, kind of follows and then there

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Speaker 1: is this kind of religious element to it where she

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Speaker 1: meets a theologian and he has opinions about what the

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Speaker 1: mission is, but he's not a love interest. I don't

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Speaker 1: think think she has a lot. I think she has

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Speaker 1: a love interest with another astronaut I believe, or another scientist.

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Speaker 1: But and then five people go to the mission. It's

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Speaker 1: not just her um as I remember it. And and

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Speaker 1: also the more maddening and we'll get into it again,

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Speaker 1: but the more maddening aspects of the film I find

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Speaker 1: is that this whole like you, where's your proof, where's

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Speaker 1: your proof? Like you didn't you crazy woman? Like you

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Speaker 1: know that you know in quotation marks that you know,

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Speaker 1: you're you're you're just a delusional and you're hysterical and

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Speaker 1: you don't know. And this has just been one big delusion.

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Speaker 1: And then at the end, you know, you see, I

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Speaker 1: guess we're allowed to do spoilers here, and people have

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Speaker 1: seen content. I'm about to spoil the whole dang thing.

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Speaker 1: But there's this incredible through line in the book which

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Speaker 1: I remembered and thought was in the movie up until

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Speaker 1: last night, which is that when she's young, and again

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Speaker 1: I'm butchering this So for all the scientists and mathematicians

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Speaker 1: and hard science fiction fans like, please please don't like

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Speaker 1: admonish me to Kelly alone. I am a fairly intense

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Speaker 1: nerd and science fiction fan, so I feel like I

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Speaker 1: can pull my weight. But she, when she's young, she

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Speaker 1: has this idea that Pie, you know, the three point

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Speaker 1: one nine number that goes into eternity that you sort

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Speaker 1: of skip over in math class like when you're young,

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Speaker 1: that it's not that it's not transcendental or it is transcendental,

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Speaker 1: which means it's not algebraic. And then something a bunch

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Speaker 1: of stuff happens. This is something she thinks of when

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Speaker 1: she's a kid. When she's young, she's like, I think

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Speaker 1: this about Pie. I think this about this transcendental number.

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Speaker 1: And then at the end of the book she figures

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Speaker 1: out that the transcendental number in fact is a massive circle,

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Speaker 1: and somehow that circle is the proof that she actually

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Speaker 1: did go and that is the made So she finds

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Speaker 1: proof that she went wow yeah, which was much more

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Speaker 1: cathartic than how we ended contact the Hollywood film. But well,

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Speaker 1: Matthew McConaughey believes her, So I guess that's good enough.

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Speaker 1: That moment at the end where like, for some reason,

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Speaker 1: all she comes out of the courthouse or the Senate

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Speaker 1: hearing or whatever, and all of these reporters aren't asking

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Speaker 1: her questions, and then suddenly Matthew McConaughey's character is more

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Speaker 1: famous than her in that moment. Absolutely not. It's so bizarre.

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Speaker 1: She's all like huddled under a blanket, like, oh no,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm so weak. I just had an existential crisis

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Speaker 1: and then we just yelled at me. And then everyone's like,

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Speaker 1: you man, who's right there? What do you believe? And

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Speaker 1: it's just like who gives a ship what Matthew McConaughey believed,

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Speaker 1: And he also like yells over a car. He's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I think I believe for and he's

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Speaker 1: wearing a huge scarf for you're just like, what is

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Speaker 1: going on? He has a scarf the size of his head,

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Speaker 1: like a wild he is. You know, I don't like

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Speaker 1: talking shit about other actors because I just feel like

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Speaker 1: it's I mean, I'm an actor, so it's it's hard.

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Speaker 1: But I think I'm going to talk about mac McConaughey

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Speaker 1: for a second because I accidentally watched two back to

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Speaker 1: back Matt mcgonaughy films because my unsurprisingly, my next film

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Speaker 1: is a sci fi feature. So I was sort of

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Speaker 1: looking at I wanted to know. I had some questions.

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Speaker 1: So I watched, Um, what the hell is it called?

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Speaker 1: The Christopher Nolan film Andrew Stellar. Yeah. I had never

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Speaker 1: seen it, and I just don't think that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Jodie Foster quite literally wipes the floor with him. It's

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Speaker 1: it's every scene that she's in and it cuts to him,

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Speaker 1: and he's supposed to emotionally meet her at a place

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Speaker 1: he just falls short. And I don't know the whole

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Speaker 1: god subplot and the faith and the fact that he

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Speaker 1: outs her at the Senate when she's trying to when

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Speaker 1: she's trying to speak for her. Yeah, and then he's like,

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Speaker 1: guess what I did? Think it was important that you

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Speaker 1: had faith, so you represented all of humanity which people

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Speaker 1: believe in God, which is I don't know if that's

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Speaker 1: like Hollywood science but it or Hollywood statistics. I don't

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Speaker 1: know where that comes from. But and then and then

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Speaker 1: he's like, oh, actually I did it because I love

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Speaker 1: you and I don't want you to believe. And I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: so this is the smartest woman. She's quite literally discovered

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Speaker 1: life on other planets. Like, let's just hold on. Jodie

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Speaker 1: Foster has just discovered life on other planets, and she

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Speaker 1: has the opportunity to go communicate with that life, go

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Speaker 1: communicate in this absolutely pure place of of courage and

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Speaker 1: adventure and cure you a city and lust for science

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Speaker 1: and all the right reasons. And is there anything you

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Speaker 1: can say against Jodie Foster in this film? There is nothing.

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Speaker 1: And then he's like, but I love you, so I

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Speaker 1: want to just keep you the possession of it here,

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Speaker 1: just like, who are you again? That? So his character

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Speaker 1: is so annoying and just cutting serious. I'm furious. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well we'll talk all about this and his hair every Also,

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Speaker 1: I've never seen I've never seen less chemistry between two people.

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Speaker 1: They're kids in front of the Watchington d C. Thing,

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Speaker 1: I forget what they're called. They kissed in front of

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Speaker 1: the Washington d C. Water puddle and it's so you're

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Speaker 1: just like, what is Can we get Jodie Foster out

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Speaker 1: of here, get her in the pod, get her away

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Speaker 1: from away from Matthew McConaughey. That is everything I thought.

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Speaker 1: Get Jody like time to go or I'm good to go. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Jenny kissing McConaughey, I'm okay to go. Yeah, I'm okay

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Speaker 1: to go. I'm writing that on my pad of paper

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Speaker 1: beside the computer so that if I need to reference

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Speaker 1: okay to go later in this podcast, I will be

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Speaker 1: able to quickly. Everybody, you will be okay to go.

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Speaker 1: It is. It is shocking how little chemistry they have,

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Speaker 1: and then there's all these weird, sustained moments where they're

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Speaker 1: staring at each other for quite longer than would be human,

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Speaker 1: and the kisses that you you sort of notice it

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Speaker 1: they kind of pan to the left and let them

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Speaker 1: kind of they rack focus really quickly, so you're like,

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Speaker 1: we don't need to see this, And yeah, every time

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Speaker 1: they embrace, it's just like, let's get Jodie Foster's head

397
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Speaker 1: on his shoulders to the camera. Can just look at

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Speaker 1: her because she's so magnificent. Yeah, it was. The chemistry

399
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: was bad, and also he's just he's so problematic. That

400
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 1: whole character is problematic, and the whole question of you know,

401
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: what if Theologian's spaces in the sci fi world and

402
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: challenging her and all of it I mean again, and

403
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Speaker 1: this I can't speak from experience because I, as I mentioned,

404
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 1: m Canadian and not American. But there was this this site,

405
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Speaker 1: this hyper sense of American like god fearing we are

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Speaker 1: the ones we speak for this planet moment. And you

407
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: get that from so much science fiction. I mean, besides

408
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 1: the remarkable Angela Bassett in this film, this film is

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Speaker 1: hell white and hell American and the the I I

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Speaker 1: think Jodie Foster has a line that's so brilliant where

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Speaker 1: she says, where the where the aliens talk in prime

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Speaker 1: numbers and she says something like what America now owns

413
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Speaker 1: prime numbers? Like no, it's international, math is international. And

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Speaker 1: that was so great and a kind of uncharacteristic criticism

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Speaker 1: of I guess the American base military god complex thing

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna get in trouble do not? Okay? Good? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So Jamie, what's your relationship in history with this movie? Um?

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Speaker 1: I had never seen this movie, I think because I

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Speaker 1: was I don't know when I would have seen it.

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Speaker 1: I think when it came out it definitely would have

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Speaker 1: been too long to hold my attention. But it's a

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Speaker 1: two and a half hour movie, correct, it is still

423
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: quite long. But I I grew up very my My

424
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: grandfather was and is like a huge Carl Sagan head,

425
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: and I like, growing up, I watched Cosmos with him.

426
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: We had it like the via just tapes, and I yeah,

427
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: so so I'm a fan of the Carl Sagan Expanded Universe.

428
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: But I never actually seen this movie and I I was,

429
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: I honestly like enjoyed it and was more touched by

430
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 1: it than I was expecting to be. It kind of

431
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: took me off guard because I was like, two and

432
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 1: a half hour movie from I just don't know. That's

433
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: a gamble, but I thought it was. I mean, there's

434
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 1: plenty to talk about, um, But in general, I was

435
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: like very captivated. Jodie Foster is like always incredible, but

436
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: she like especially blew me away, and then I'm like, wow,

437
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: not again. I have a very short attention span. Not

438
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: many actors can hold my attention for two and a

439
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 1: half hours, and she's just incredible. And I also am

440
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: excited to talk about the production history of this movie

441
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: because it's very interesting. Um, what's your history with contact?

442
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: This was a movie that my family had on VHS

443
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: one or two. I think it was only one of them, Brave,

444
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 1: but it is long enough that I don't know. Now

445
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: I'm not remembering. I'm not remembering because I only watched

446
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: this once, so like it was a movie that like

447
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: my family had, I guess, like maybe my brother watched

448
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: it and my mom, but for some reason, I I

449
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: don't know. This was also the year that Titanic came out,

450
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: so as with many movies, from what to say, I mean,

451
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: this was it. This was a year I didn't have

452
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: eyes for anything but Titanic. So to VHS sets, it

453
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: was definitely Titanic, obviously, but then also I think Meet

454
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: Joe Black. That's the only other movie that I've never seen.

455
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone in my family ever watched it.

456
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a gift or what.

457
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: But Meet Joe Black to VHS. Interesting. Yeah, I truly

458
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: don't remember if contact was a one or two VHS

459
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: tape scenario, but I don't remember having it, but I

460
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: was I was too busy watching Titanic all the time

461
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: to pay much attention to Contact. Although I think probably

462
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: when I was like maybe thirteen or fourteen, I watched it,

463
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: and there are two very distinct moments from the movie

464
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 1: that We're like seared into my brain, and then I

465
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: remembered nothing else. I remembered her dad like materialized, like

466
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 1: the alien materializing as her dad and talking to her.

467
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: I remember that, and then I remembered the kind of

468
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 1: twist at the end where I didn't remember that it

469
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: was Angela Bassett, but like the reveal that like eighteen

470
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 1: hours of static was recorded, she did go on the

471
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: trip to Vega. That is a very satisfying moment. I mean,

472
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: Angela Bassett carries it, but it was I was like, oh,

473
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: because I was so I mean, the proceeding scene was

474
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: so frustrating to watch. But I'm also like, Angela, did

475
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: you contact Jodie Foster and tell her like and confirm this?

476
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: Because we never I don't know if if if Ellie

477
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: knows that, like you know, it's so funny. Those are

478
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: the exact two moments that I remember the most as well,

479
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: like absolutely the dad on the beach and then that

480
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: last moment. But did you tell you there was exactly

481
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: eighteen hours of static? And I had the same reaction.

482
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: I remember finding my mom and being like, did they

483
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: tell her? What do you think? Do you think she

484
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: found out James Woods's reaction is so bizarre too, where

485
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: he's like, oh that is interesting, and you're like, so

486
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: what happened? But it's like, you know, his character is

487
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: not going to be the one to admit that they're wrong.

488
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: But I was like, I hope Angela Bassett stepped up.

489
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: We'll never know, and that could have been a scene

490
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 1: that passed the Bechdel tests, where you know, if Angela

491
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: Bassett calls Jodie Foster, she's like, hey, I got some

492
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: good news for you. You were gone for eighteen hours

493
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: and we have the proof, you know exactly. Instead, instead,

494
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: all they talked about is finding a dress for some

495
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: sort of to impress Matthew McConaughey. Yeah. But the that

496
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: Jame Woods is reaction, his whole thing, his whole screaming

497
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: at her at that, him getting up. I mean again,

498
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: I don't like talking about actors, but I'm going to

499
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: talk to it about James Woods. It's like, it's extremely

500
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: fair game hundreds at for a game. He is not

501
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: our target, target audience or an allies. So I'm gonna

502
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: say we're gonna talk to it about him, and he's

503
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: he's an unrepentant Republican. He's he's a big and it's

504
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: so he's awful. He's awful, He's awful, and uh, he

505
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: just trying to him, trying to what's the word. There's

506
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: a word for it, eat the umu. There's an acting

507
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: word for sham, acting like chew the scenery. In that

508
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: last scene, he's screaming at her, he's standing up, he's

509
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: yelling at her. He's trying to James Woods the ship

510
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: out of it, and Jodie Foster is just Jodie fostering

511
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: so hard. She's just sitting there, tears in her eyes,

512
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: standing in her strength and her purity and this like

513
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: feeling of of wonder that she's trying to convey in

514
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: this sort of the space between what is real and

515
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: what is not real? What is science, what is faith?

516
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: What is Oh It's just like I remember that scene.

517
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: I remember her choking back tears and having a hard

518
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: time finding the words, and all I wish is she

519
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: hit then said and then I figured out that pie

520
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: is not in fact transcendental, and she did the circle

521
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: and all this stuff it's in the book. But yeah,

522
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: that moment with James Woods where he's badgering her it's

523
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: not even and you're like, how did you get so

524
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: much screen time this damn movie? Like you're who are you? Yeah? Why?

525
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: Like get rid of James Wood's bringing more Angela Bassett?

526
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: Like anyway, um, let me do the recap of the

527
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: movie and then we'll get even further into the discussion. Actually,

528
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break first and then we'll come

529
00:31:53,760 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: back to recap and we're back. Okay, So okay, you

530
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: know the very end of Men in Black, where like

531
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: the camera keeps like pulling out from New York City

532
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: and then like the US and then Planet Earth and

533
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: then the Solar System, and then it turns out that

534
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: the galaxy is one of several tiny little marbles that

535
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: aliens are playing with, and then you realize how small

536
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: and insignificant you are. The way Men in Black ends

537
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: is exactly how Contact opens. So that's my first brilliant observation.

538
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: My point of reference. There was the end of How

539
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: the Grinch Still Christmas, when you find out the whole

540
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: movie took place on a snowflake. Jim Carrey lives on

541
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: a snowflake. Amazing. Then we meet Ellie, a young girl

542
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: who is sending out radio transmissions and trying to see

543
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: how far she can reach. She lives with her dad,

544
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: baby Jenna Malone. Oh my gosh, I love Genna Malone.

545
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: That is who that is, isn't it? That did not

546
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: even register for me. Yeah. Then we cut to Ellie,

547
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: who has grown up to be Jodie Foster. She is

548
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: now an astronomer trying to make contact with intelligent life

549
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: elsewhere in the universe. She's working on this project called Steady,

550
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, with a few colleagues, most

551
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: notably Kent. And then one day she meets Palmer Joss

552
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: That is Matthew McConaughey. First of all, what name? What

553
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: I name? I think that is a name from the

554
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: book though I'm going to say that now, Joss. I

555
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: feel like I read and I was like, yeah, that's

556
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: a book name. It's very much a book name. It's

557
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: a book name. I have the book synopsis in front

558
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: of me because I was so, I'm so interested in

559
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: like the differences you're responding, Kelly. So I'll try to

560
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:58,479
Speaker 1: try to follow along ecually where things really go awry.

561
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: So Palmer Joss is a theologian. He's trying to interview

562
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: Ellie's boss, this guy Drumlin played by Tom Skarrett, who

563
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: is an asshole. Then Ellie and Palmer they look at

564
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: the stars together, they kiss, they have sex, and then

565
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: we learn via their pillow talk, as well as some

566
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: flashbacks that Ellie's dad died when she was nine years old.

567
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: And then one of the most the mellow drama of

568
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: that sequence slow Motion Baby. General, it was a lot

569
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: very very nineties where it's like, oh, the slow motion

570
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: trauma scene, I know this film convention, yeah, or the

571
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 1: just general nineties convention of kids parents dying and kids

572
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: having to deal with that. That's a big nineties early

573
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: two thousand, like, let's see, this kid's gonna have this

574
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: kid's going to be an orphan, right, full on orphan. Yeah,

575
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: And yet we're not going to address how she survives,

576
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,479
Speaker 1: who raises, how she has money. I mean, maybe she's

577
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 1: just a very perculous, privileged white girl. And then there's

578
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: sort of like it has like glean of nineties movies

579
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: where they're like, she's white, so we don't have to

580
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: explain her cultural background. The middle class sort of kind

581
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: of exists. It's just a general glean of she's fine,

582
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: she's like gonna be fine. She she was both of

583
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: her parents dide she has a huge house. I don't

584
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: know that was like especially glaring to me where I

585
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: don't know what this character's name is. He shows up

586
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: in a little bit Mr. Mr Plot billionaire or like

587
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: whoa yeah the plot man. Plot Man summarizes her life

588
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: to us for some reason, but also skips over like

589
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: how she who she lived with, what she did, how

590
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: she survived between like age ten in college, Mr Plot,

591
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: I swear to god, some aunt is just like eye

592
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: rolling and like just just sitting there and being like

593
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: I flip and raised you. You're not even gonna mention

594
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 1: me nice family member? Erasure not nice? Right? Or did

595
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: she grow up in the foster system, the Jody Foster system.

596
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: She would have had to there's no way run it she,

597
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: I will say. As much as I despise this Palmer

598
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: Joss love thing that pops up like once every half

599
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: hour or so in this movie, I did appreciate that

600
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: Ellie initiated their contact. Shall we? I feel like you

601
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 1: don't you don't get a lot of that. You don't

602
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,919
Speaker 1: get a lot of initiation from a female character where

603
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: she's just like, do you want to get out of here.

604
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, Jody, good for you. Yeah, okay,

605
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: go let's do it. And then she has sex with

606
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: him and leaves him high and drawing. He's like, what

607
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: that's another thing, you know, Like she she it's on

608
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: her terms. The first time, it's on her terms. The

609
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: second time he literally tries to possess her and stop

610
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: her from living out her dreams. But the first time

611
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: it's great. It's great. She's like, I just want to

612
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: have sex with you. It's not moralized. They're not like,

613
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's actually sort of breathtaking lee un

614
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: moralized that she's just doing this. And then she sees

615
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: his number and she's like, you know what, I'm going

616
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: to leave this number here. I don't need to I

617
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: don't need to keep this in my pocket and hope

618
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: for something else. I'm just gonna And you know that

619
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: was those were good times before the internet and for

620
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: social media, where you could just forget the person's paper

621
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: that wrote their number on it, and then they can

622
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: just disappear them from your life. Like how easy she

623
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: leaves it for the next person who's staying in that

624
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: little shack. I also think there's um a moment where

625
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: speaking of how white this film is. But when we

626
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: meet Matthew Mohonna as Palmer Joss. When we meet him,

627
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: he makes some sort of comment about why they're in

628
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 1: I think they're in Puerto Rico. I think that's where

629
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: they are, and he's like, well, what is science mean

630
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 1: to these people like you? Scientists come in here and

631
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: you take up this space in these in these cultures,

632
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: in these communities, that that the science and space exploration

633
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: doesn't serve in some sort of way, And he sort

634
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 1: of sets up this very important conversation and that it's

635
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: just all God from there. It's just all you know,

636
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: ontological questions about theology from there. But it's completely, just

637
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: completely dropped, And I didn't. I forgot that moment. I

638
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: forgot about that whole sequence, and it's never They never

639
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: get back to it, and I wonder if I can't.

640
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: I want to reread the book and find out whether

641
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: or not they deal with that of the question of

642
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: who is science? Who is space exploration for? And Jodie

643
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: Foster of course answers that question because she's marvelous, But

644
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: who is it for? You know, it's it's for anyone

645
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: who feels alone. That's kind of the the thesis maybe

646
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 1: of her alien dad and her I don't know. I

647
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: mean I also thought that he was the Palmer Jaws

648
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: kind of hate saying that name we all do was

649
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 1: was also very like in that same conversation, is very

650
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: dismissive of the people who live locally, because he's like, Oh,

651
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: they don't they don't know what the you know, satellite

652
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: dishes are for. They think it's for their like basically

653
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 1: just like making this kind of like a side comment

654
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: to say like, oh, people around here have no idea

655
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: what what you guys are doing. And then and then,

656
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: like you said, continues into this his whole god tangent

657
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, if you're going to set a

658
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: movie here, set it here, don't you like? I Like,

659
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: we talked about that all the time, of like using

660
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: somewhere and and and the people that are native there

661
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: as set dressing rather than including them meaningfully in the plot,

662
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: which is just always always frustrating. Yeah, I mean they

663
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: did that with I remember in the book when the

664
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: second machine or maybe maybe there aren't two machines, I

665
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 1: don't remember, there's there. It's possible that the whole first machine,

666
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: and then the evangelical Christian who bombs it. It doesn't

667
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: happen in the book. I can't remember, but I do

668
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: know that the second machine or the first um is

669
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: built in Japan, and the relationship with the Japanese government

670
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: and the Japanese scientists and engineers is much more a

671
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: part of the book. And you'll notice that it's just

672
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: represented by these two Japanese man stand like leading Jodie

673
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: Foster into this, into the pot, and they say nothing,

674
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: and they're just they behave in this sort of you know, subservient.

675
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,919
Speaker 1: The portrayed is this kind of subservient group of people,

676
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: and like they don't even react to the fact that

677
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: they're standing over this obelisk looking spinning thing. It's just

678
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: so done as like conversation worthy. I would say, yeah, yeah,

679
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: if they're not, they're not treating the the as you said,

680
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: like the places that they're shooting this with, as anything

681
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,439
Speaker 1: other than just set dressing, which is very nineties early

682
00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: two thousand's Hollywood, certainly is okay. Then Drumlin pulls his

683
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 1: funding from the project because he thinks it's a waste

684
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: of time. So Ellie and Kent and some other colleagues

685
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: pick up and head to New Mexico to lease some

686
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: government satellites there, and Ellie helps them get funding from investors.

687
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: We then cut to four years later they were about

688
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: to lose that funding or like Drumlin is going to

689
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 1: come back and try to like take over the lease

690
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 1: of this something. I think like any time they run

691
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: out of funding. Honestly, these scenes kind of blurred for me,

692
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: where it's like any time they lose funding. Jennie Foster

693
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: throws on a turtleneck and I was like, all right,

694
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: who do I need to talk to? And then eventually

695
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: it happens. Yeah. Yeah, the funding narrative is sort of repetitive.

696
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: I don't real didn't remember that, but I know Hagen

697
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: the guy, the rich guy in space is a big

698
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: part of the book as well, But but it is

699
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: sort of creepy that he's like, are in very very strange? Yeah,

700
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: the Yeah, the funding falls through, she gets the turtle

701
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: lack all of a sudden, guess what funding back back.

702
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: But then it seems like contact has been made by

703
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 1: aliens from a star that's twenty six light years away

704
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: called Vega. They transmit prime numbers between two and one

705
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 1: because math is a universal language Da Vinci code. Wow. Um.

706
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 1: Then the Vega Aliens send a video transmission of Hitler

707
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: announcing the opening Olympic Games in Berlin, because that was

708
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: like the first powerful television transmission to be sent into

709
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: space from Earth. So the aliens recorded it and sent

710
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 1: it back to be like I see you, I hear you, Hello.

711
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: And then everyone's like, this is not representative of what

712
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: we're trying to do here, right right. Then Ellie and

713
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 1: friends continue to decode the transmission and they discovered that

714
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 1: the Vega Aliens have sent thousands of pages of data,

715
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: but it's all in like you know, alien code that

716
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: they don't understand, so they have to decrypt it and

717
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 1: they need like a primer, like a key to the code. Meanwhile,

718
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,240
Speaker 1: James Woods is this. I think he's like the National

719
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 1: Security Advisor. Fuck James Woods. Seriously, we don't have time

720
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: to unpack all the funk James Woods. But fuck James Woods. Uh.

721
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: So he's giving Ellie hard time. The press is reporting

722
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: on contact being made. Uh, there's a conversation like kind

723
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: of religion versus science that's being had between a lot

724
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: of people. Um Palmer, Joss is on Larry King talking

725
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: about his his book about yet another Larry appearance. I

726
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: feel like ever, I mean, Larry's everywhere, He's everywhere. This

727
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: is not still not the best Larry that's done on

728
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 1: the best Larry, because that's B movie, Yes, B Larry King.

729
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: Then dr hadn't a k. John Hurt, the eccentric billionaire,

730
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 1: pays Ellie a visit and he has figured out the primer,

731
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: like a k A, how to decode the data that

732
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: the aliens sent, and with this they are able to

733
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 1: determine that this data is a blueprint for a machine

734
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: of some kind. They don't know what it's supposed to

735
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,479
Speaker 1: do at first, but it becomes clear that it's meant

736
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: to be a transport to bring a human into space,

737
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 1: presumably to make direct contact with the Vega aliens. So

738
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: then some government officials have made a list of a

739
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: few candidates who might be the person to go to Vega.

740
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: One of them is Ellie. One of them is her

741
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: former boss Drumlin, and he he really really wants to go. Oh,

742
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: I want to kick his ass. Oh. And then also

743
00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 1: there's a rogue Jake Busey just kind of blue hang

744
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: over and this is Also, Caitlin and I were talking

745
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: about this, uh last night, how Jake Busey in the nineties,

746
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: he just he just he wanted to be in a

747
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: space movie. It didn't matter what was happening in the

748
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: space movie Starship Troopers Contact. He was using his particular

749
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 1: kind of nepotism to be in space movies. I honestly

750
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: want that particular kind of nepotism so bad, Like if

751
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: I could just love that for him. I love that

752
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: for him, but I want it for me. That's the truth.

753
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 1: So then it's time to choose who goes. Ellie has

754
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: passed over because she's an atheist slash agnostic, which Palmer

755
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: jaz like docks as her as an atheist in a

756
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:48,959
Speaker 1: public forum, and because they think that people on Earth

757
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: believe in some form of higher power, they want to

758
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 1: pick someone who represents most of humanity. So she gets

759
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: passed over, uh and instead Drumlin gets selected to go.

760
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: And then they run a test of the machine that

761
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: they have built. But this religious extremist a k A.

762
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: Jake Bausey a K. Gary Busey's son, breach of security,

763
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: sets off a bomb which destroys the machine and kills Drumlin,

764
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 1: among many others. So then it seems like okay, that's it,

765
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: no one's going to go to Vega until Dr Haddn't

766
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: shows up again and reveals to Ellie that a second

767
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: machine was built in secret in Japan and they want

768
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 1: Ellie to go to Vega. This damn plot guy he like,

769
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: I was just like, maybe he's a character that makes

770
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: more sense in the book than he did in the movie,

771
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 1: but he really just did seem he was like giving

772
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 1: me plot which energy and this like where he would

773
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: just show up, like when when Jodie Foster was like

774
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: really in a bind, he would be like do do

775
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: do do from space and be like, by the way,

776
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: here's the plot point you need, and then and then

777
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: and then he just dies when he runs out of

778
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: plot points. It's really sad, real old wise man patron

779
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: for a younger woman energy as well, like very very

780
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: like don't worry, I've seen something in you that no

781
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: one else has seen. And you're my girl, like you're

782
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: my you know. He also is like stalking her, and

783
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: he's also stalking her putting stuff in her bedroom. Does

784
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: he have home video footage of her as a child,

785
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: Like I was like that, where did he get that?

786
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: I mean, we still don't know where she grew up,

787
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: So thanks, I guess, but it's true. Definitely nullifies some

788
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 1: of Jodie Foster's get up and go agency and her

789
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: like you know, tearing this down and making this happen.

790
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: I mean, they're just some wonderful moments where Jody is

791
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: the only smart person in the room or the person

792
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: who knows. Like when she notices what's his name as

793
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: the evangelical she knows that Jake. Yeah, yeah, j thought

794
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: he was so sneaky. And what's interesting. I world note

795
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: with present day context, when the newscaster covers the story

796
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: of the bombing bombing, they call him a terrorist, they

797
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: call him I noticed that too. Yeah, you never see

798
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: I mean, and this is like a problem to this

799
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:19,879
Speaker 1: day of like declaring white terrorists to be what they are, yeah,

800
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: or white male evangelical terrorists to say Christian terrorists. It

801
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: was such a a weird, interesting moment of like, oh, yeah,

802
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 1: this is interesting how we've mutilated the word terrorism to

803
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: mean essentially people of color from different countries. You know,

804
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 1: it was such an incredibly weird moment. I was like,

805
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: oh yeah, blast for the past. Yeah, I made don't

806
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: of that too. Yeah, I hate. I mean it's I

807
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: hate that we live in a world where that is

808
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: like of note, but it absolutely is. I was like,

809
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: I was okay, okay, okay, okay to go okay, to

810
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: go okay. It took me as I don't know why,

811
00:48:54,880 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: I totally okay. Back to the recount. So then Ellie

812
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,919
Speaker 1: prepares for the trip. Palmer Joss is like, oh, don't

813
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: want you to go, and she's like, I'm going, but

814
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: she also forgives him. He apologizes for robbing her, like

815
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: very near robbing her of her dream. But then she's

816
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: like it's cool because you know the whole Jake beausey thing,

817
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 1: Like I feel like that was the subtext of it.

818
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: She's like, well, you know it all worked out of

819
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 1: like that. We need a longer conversation about this. So

820
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: she is launched into space. She goes through a series

821
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: of wormholes. She ends up on this like astro beach.

822
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: It looks like a screen faver, it looks yeah, her

823
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: dad seems to materialize in front of her, but it

824
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: turns out that it's a Vega alien who had downloaded

825
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 1: her subconscious and sort of like is this ambassador who

826
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: has taken on the form of her dad to more

827
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 1: effectively communicate with her. They have a little chat about

828
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: like people of Earth and how they feel so lost

829
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: and alone, but now they can know that they're not alone.

830
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: And this is just a first of like many steps

831
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: of like contact among different you know, terrestrial beings. And

832
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: then she is pretty quickly after that returned to Earth.

833
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: But back on Earth, they're like, Ellie, there was a malfunction.

834
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,919
Speaker 1: You didn't go anywhere, And she's like, um, yeah, I did.

835
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: I talked to the aliens obviously, like the machine opened

836
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: up a wormhole and I traveled through spacetime. I was

837
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: gone for like eighteen hours. The aliens was my dad,

838
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: I was. I was on a beach five star resort

839
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 1: that looks like that. It looks like her painting, right

840
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: she she yeah, yeah, she was like I was. I

841
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: went to Pensacola, but in the middle of space. And

842
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: then they're like, um, we don't believe you. There's no

843
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 1: evidence of this. Nothing was recorded except for static. But

844
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: how much static? Right can we? I just seemed to

845
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 1: I feel like I need to pause just to talk

846
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: about the extation, the expectation that that dinky little thing

847
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 1: they put on her head withstand when this fan I

848
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 1: just I remember being like they're like, okay, here we go,

849
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 1: and they open up this very official suitcase with like

850
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 1: foam in it where they're like, okay, we're gonna give

851
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 1: you the device and it looks like my Walkman from

852
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 1: It looks like something like like the Gwen Stefani mike

853
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 1: like for a stadium Dora. This through a wormhole and

854
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: they put it on her head with this little silver

855
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: headband and I'm thinking, like, they don't even put a

856
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: bobby pin into secure it. Nothing, It's just going to

857
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: stay on her head during this wormhole esque it makes

858
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: me and then the expectation that she is responsible for

859
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: the evidence that she's responsible. He's yelling at her, where's

860
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 1: your evidence? You don't have any evidence. I'm like, well

861
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 1: that's on you, bro. You sent her with the like

862
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: the most cracked little piece of technology. Why is it

863
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: on her? And her chair like blows up, Oh my god,

864
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: the chair that wasn't even supposed to be there, because

865
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 1: she's like there's nothing in the design specs for this

866
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: like chair and the harness, and it's like, yeah, we

867
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 1: understand why because it's like just implodes. Yeah, She's like,

868
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: trust the aliens, trust my dad, This's gonna be fine.

869
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 1: But the evidence thing just absolutely that makes no sense

870
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: because yeah, James Woods is like screaming at her and

871
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: like being like, you don't have any proof, and she's like,

872
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: I don't know. But then Palmer Joss is like, well

873
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: I believe her. You're like, wow, brave, amazing feminist icon

874
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: Palmer Joss, and we're just like and then James Woods

875
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 1: and angel A Bassett have that conversation where angel A

876
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 1: Bassett's like, yes, only static was recorded on this supposed

877
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: trip to Vega, But James Woods, don't you think it's

878
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 1: weird that eighteen hours was recorded? And then he goes, yeah,

879
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: I guess yes, that gets it's weird. And then the

880
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:18,280
Speaker 1: film ends with Ellie continuing her work on searching for

881
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial intelligence. And that's the end of the movie. Let's

882
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 1: take another quick break and we'll come back for more discussion.

883
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: And we're back. We've we've talked about some stuff already,

884
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 1: but there are there are some things I want to

885
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 1: kind of dig into a little bit. I want to

886
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: do a quick overview of the production history of this

887
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:53,240
Speaker 1: movie because there are some very nineties things that you'll notice,

888
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: um popping out. So this is a movie that has

889
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: a majority white male crew at the top. Directed by

890
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 1: Robert Zamakis. Uh screenplay is by James V. Hart and

891
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:11,760
Speaker 1: Michael Goldenberg, but the story is by Carl Sagan and

892
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: Andrew Ien, who were not married I don't think at

893
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,720
Speaker 1: the time of this story, but they were later um

894
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 1: later married. But what I didn't realize about this was

895
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: that uh, Contact was a book from that was turned

896
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 1: into a movie. But it was originally envisioned as a

897
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: movie and then someone was like, oh, Carl Sagan, actually

898
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:33,359
Speaker 1: maybe if you write a book, it'll be easier for

899
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 1: us to to get it produced. Um. So this was

900
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: in production for a really, really really long time. A

901
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,839
Speaker 1: female producer was the one who got it over the edge.

902
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: Linda Obst shout out. She was friends with Carl Sagan

903
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: and really you know, advocated for this project to exist.

904
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: Carl Sagan wrote the story with Andrew In, who is

905
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:01,919
Speaker 1: like an incredible filmmaker, scientist, researcher in her own right.

906
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 1: And I didn't know. We don't have like, you know,

907
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,280
Speaker 1: all the time in the world to get into Carl Sagan,

908
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: but as a very prominent scientist he did um as

909
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 1: far as my research indicated, was a strong advocate for

910
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: diversity in general in the science fields, but he was

911
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: an advocate for women. They're like this amazing anecdote in

912
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:29,439
Speaker 1: the eighties of him approaching it's such a silly name

913
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 1: that I'm like, this can't be a thing. The Explorers Club.

914
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: Apparently it's a very famous astronomer's group, and it was

915
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: all male all the way into the nineteen eighties. And

916
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 1: he wrote a strongly worded letter to say, why the

917
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: funk aren't women allowed in this group? Like, what's going on? Yeah,

918
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,919
Speaker 1: so Carl feminist icon also Andrew and you know, I'm

919
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 1: sure that she she was an advocate as well, obviously,

920
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: and and uh, this is his only novel, and they

921
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: you know, he and Andrean took special care to ensure

922
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: that there was a female protagonist in the novel and

923
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 1: also in the movie, which is also, you know, relatively

924
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: unusual in sci fi to this day. Ellie Earraway was

925
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 1: based on a real person, uh, Dr Jill Tarter. Uh.

926
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 1: The Seti Institute is a real thing who knew not me, uh,

927
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: which she founded right, Yes, she founded Jodie Foster like

928
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:33,359
Speaker 1: worked with her. Um, so the very nineties thing that

929
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: happens here, and this will kind of get us into

930
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: some of the book versus movie changes that have been made.

931
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: Was there was a male producer, uh, Peter Goober, which

932
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 1: let's just get into it's really going to live up

933
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 1: to his name. He so so after the book was published,

934
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 1: apparently the mother gets killed off very early, which is

935
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: just like such an Erican movie thing to do. On

936
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: top of that, Peter Goober was pitching all these things

937
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 1: to like quote unquote flesh out Ellie's character more. But um,

938
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: he was really advocating for her to have an estranged

939
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: teenage son, which Carl and Anne were like no, no, no,

940
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: uh but um, Peter Goober says, like quote, here was

941
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: a woman consumed with the idea that there was something

942
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:26,960
Speaker 1: out there worth listening to, but the one thing she

943
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: could never make contact with was her own child. To me,

944
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 1: that's what the film had to be about, which is

945
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: like the most male executive note about a female protagonist

946
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: that I've ever heard, where it's just like, oh, well,

947
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: if it's a woman, it has to be related to

948
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: motherhood and deal with your mommy issues elsewhere. Gouber, I'm like, yeah,

949
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: like can we like just take this your therapist. Um,

950
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: and yeah. There was just kind of a lot of

951
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: back and forth in terms of how Ellie should be characterized.

952
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: But luckily carl and and I think took every stand

953
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 1: they could. I'm very I wasn't able to find information

954
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,439
Speaker 1: about like at what point did Palmer drop become like

955
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: a stud full one McConaughey, But yeah, there there there

956
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 1: was like a lot of changes made to the story.

957
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 1: Some of them that proposed changes were pretty sexist and reductive,

958
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: and many of them didn't make it to the movie.

959
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: Some of them did. I also read that it was

960
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: pitched that Ellie the movie would end with like her

961
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: having a baby. Yes, yes, that was another goober pitch

962
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: that was a goober that's forever now that that was

963
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: a goober that has goober written all over it. He

964
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,920
Speaker 1: really gooped that one up. This goober just means like

965
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: anyone trying to just add goob to anything, any female story,

966
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 1: they're trying to goog it up. My one of my

967
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,439
Speaker 1: favorite things, because we talked about this quite a bit

968
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: of particularly when it's male writers who are just writing

969
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: outside of their own experience. It's like, well, just talk

970
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: to someone, like, have the proper consultants on on the

971
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: movies that you're working on at the very very very least,

972
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 1: And that does happen in this they so Jill Tarter,

973
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 1: Jodie Foster, and I guess that the writers and and

974
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 1: Karl and and work with her. And she was a

975
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 1: consultant on this story specifically, not just for the scientific elements,

976
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 1: but to talk about the careers of women's scientists in

977
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 1: her experience between the fifties and seventies. And I guess

978
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: a lot of the kind of specific instances of Ellie

979
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 1: being spoken over, opportunities being taken from her, her work,

980
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: kind of being made to seem less impactful than it

981
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 1: actually was, was pulled from Jill Tarter's experience. So go

982
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: Dr Jill. She said. On her first day as like

983
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: a PhD candidate at UC Berkeley in the mid sixties,

984
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 1: she was told by the head of the astronomy department

985
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 1: that the only reason that she was there was because quote,

986
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 1: all these smart men got drafted for Vietnam. So yep. Unsurprisingly,

987
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: she had to put up with a lot of sexism,

988
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 1: believe it or not, believe it or not, Shucker, I'm

989
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: really glad she was like meaningfully included. I mean, as

990
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: much as I'm like, can't we get from female screenwriters

991
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: on this, I am very glad that her experiences were

992
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 1: like really taken into account on the consulting level. Um.

993
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: And I feel like that it enriches the movie. Oh absolutely.

994
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: And I think you can feel how much. I mean,

995
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: just knowing the the pedigree that is Jodie Foster, There's

996
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 1: no way she wouldn't have absolutely absorbed everything this woman

997
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 1: felt and said and and like I think, my I

998
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 1: mean when I I don't remember the religious plot, I

999
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 1: don't remember Matthew McConaughey, I don't remember all the other stuff.

1000
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: What I remember is being a young girl watching this

1001
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: and being like, holy cow, she loves science. Holy cow,

1002
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 1: she becomes this. It was so empowering growing up. Like

1003
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: I remember that moment when she's outside and she's like

1004
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 1: losing her financing and she's like, screw it, I'm taking

1005
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: the computer box outside and I'm going to listen on

1006
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 1: my head in my car, and then she hears it

1007
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 1: and she's driving that car like a bat out of

1008
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,919
Speaker 1: hell and she's you know, she's spitting coordinates and crap.

1009
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: And there's like a ten minute scene where the audience

1010
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 1: doesn't understand funk All, like there's just no way unless

1011
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: you're a scientist, you know what the hell they're talking about.

1012
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: But even watching it last night, I was so captivating.

1013
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: It's so captivating. And what I remember how I felt

1014
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 1: as a young girl watching this. I remember her being

1015
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 1: like I hear it, I I know, and her the

1016
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: constant attempt for her to believe, to have the benefit

1017
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 1: of the doubt in the aliens, for her to be like, no,

1018
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have done this if they didn't say they

1019
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 1: needed a chair there. This isn't a weapon, like why

1020
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: would they, you know? And just and that a spirit

1021
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 1: and energy. And it's interesting because I had read that

1022
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: Andrew and Carl Sagan had written this, as you said,

1023
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 1: as a feature first, and then they were like, oh,

1024
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 1: we can't get his feature made, so let's make it

1025
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: into a book, and then he wrote the book. But

1026
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 1: it's it's I wonder what the differences between those two

1027
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: screenplays would have been, because at the end of the film,

1028
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 1: it says, for Carl and You're kind of like and

1029
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: Drew's participation. It says it says story by the two

1030
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 1: of them, but her participation is sort of Yeah. I

1031
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: do think it's because he died before the movie came out.

1032
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that that's why the movie is dedicated

1033
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 1: to him specifically, Um, yeah, because he died in late

1034
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 1: nineties show like right when they were probably finished, probably

1035
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 1: while they're in production. Yeah, okay, well that's sad, Okay,

1036
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 1: never mind. I just was like, where did because I

1037
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: it's it's now becomes such a Carl Sagan, like it's

1038
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 1: his project, where the story of the two of them

1039
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 1: writing it is kind of also special, but especially because

1040
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 1: I mean there is there tends to be an erasure

1041
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: of like there will be a famous man and then

1042
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: he will collaborate with a woman. Maybe it's a romantic partner.

1043
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just like a professional partner for like much

1044
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: of his career, but people tend to only remember the man,

1045
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 1: and the woman often gets erased from the narrative. I'm

1046
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: thinking with John Carpenter and oh my god, I don't

1047
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 1: remember her name because her name gets e raised all

1048
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 1: the time. Let me figure it out. Deborah Deborah Hill?

1049
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 1: Is that ith? Yeah? One of many examples of this,

1050
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: so especially in the science world, like it's it's rampart,

1051
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: like Marie Curry dealt with this that if you female

1052
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: scientists releasing information and making just monster discoveries that men

1053
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,439
Speaker 1: have taken credit for, like it's just and I think

1054
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: they they show the heartbreak of that in the film,

1055
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 1: with that guy constantly interrupting her and taking credit for

1056
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 1: her and somehow having a press conference with Bill Clinton

1057
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 1: while he was in office, Like Bill Clinton is hell

1058
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: of the president at this point and he's in the movie.

1059
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 1: How did I guess? So I did some research on

1060
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 1: that because I was like he did, because first of all,

1061
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton, right, but but on but on top of that,

1062
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 1: like did he film scenes for that movie? I don't

1063
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 1: think that he did. I think that they repurposed existing

1064
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 1: speeches he's made and wrote around it to make it work.

1065
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 1: That makes sense in the movie, which there was there

1066
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 1: seemed to be some controversy about at the time, which

1067
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: is kind of like, I don't know. I was kind

1068
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: of like, shut up, but they were like, well, what

1069
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 1: if would have viewers think that it's a documentary if

1070
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 1: it includes the actual president? At the time, I'm like, well,

1071
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 1: then I guess that they like, I need to read

1072
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 1: a book. It's very clearly a movie. Um, but yeah,

1073
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: he I think that that Like all the CNN anchors

1074
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 1: like did film scenes for the movie, but Bill Clinton didn't.

1075
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 1: They just were like, oh, what are clips of him

1076
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 1: talking about stuff that sounds like it could be about aliens.

1077
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 1: It's seamless enough that it it work, works, it works.

1078
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: But yes, Andrean shout out to her. She's still working today.

1079
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 1: She's worked on the Cosmos reboot. She's been like, had

1080
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 1: complete creative control over, won a bunch of Emmys for it. Rocks.

1081
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 1: She rocks. I mean women in science fiction is I

1082
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: mean my whole ursula. Ky La Gwin as as the

1083
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 1: probably the most prominent science fiction writer in my life

1084
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 1: and also just an incredible intellect in the gender performative

1085
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 1: gender gender space, feminism space. Like she she is one

1086
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 1: of the greatest science fiction writers of all time, and

1087
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 1: she's so remarkably female and talks about all most of

1088
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 1: her protagonists or women and it's uh yeah, I mean

1089
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 1: it's women are just so fantastic in this space. And

1090
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: because it's science fiction, you don't always it's the future,

1091
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: it's it's a hope for a different time where patriarchy

1092
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 1: isn't soaked in everything we're doing, so you can have

1093
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: these pockets of you know, like an escape or narrative

1094
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 1: transport in a way that he really gives an opportunity

1095
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 1: to kind of unpack gender issues in the sci fi space.

1096
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 1: So the fact that women would be detectives in that

1097
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 1: space is it makes sense to me. Um. I Also,

1098
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 1: I love that you were saying that the ending of

1099
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 1: the film had like maybe she has baby, maybe this

1100
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 1: and and you know, he's not a palmer. Josh is

1101
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:27,919
Speaker 1: not in that last shot, like he's not watching her,

1102
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: but while she you know what I mean, Like I was,

1103
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's good because we don't really know.

1104
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: First of all, I don't know how they have such

1105
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: an intimate relationship when they slept together once, she doesn't

1106
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 1: see him for like five years then and then and

1107
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 1: then he just kai boshes her her dreams. She forgives

1108
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 1: him because she's just so kind, I guess. And then

1109
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 1: he's not there in that final sequence where she's inspiring

1110
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: young kids. And I remember that when I was younger,

1111
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 1: being like that's Hella inspiring. I remember being like, this

1112
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: works this is working on me. I'm a kid, I'm

1113
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 1: watching this. This is this is Hella working. Um, but

1114
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 1: he's not there, Thank god God. Yeah, their relationship is

1115
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 1: We touched on this, but I'm pretty sure it was

1116
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 1: like a studio notes thing. It doesn't not appear to

1117
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't read the I didn't read the book.

1118
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 1: But according to the Wikipedia synopsis of the book, he

1119
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: is a character, but he does not appear as though

1120
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: there's any romantic relationship between them. So for him to

1121
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 1: be introduced in this context in the movie is like

1122
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:33,479
Speaker 1: this potential romantic prospect, which like I mean, it's she's

1123
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 1: just like has a one night stand with him, and

1124
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 1: then she's just like I don't need to talk to

1125
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 1: him again, Like we clearly don't have that much in common.

1126
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 1: He's a theologian, I'm an agnostic scientist, Like we're not

1127
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 1: very compatible here, But then he keeps like creeping up

1128
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 1: and like try Like I'm just like, it's one thing

1129
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 1: if they have a friends with benefits thing, which is

1130
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 1: like what it seems like Ellie wants. But then he's like,

1131
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: as we've discussed, like I'm going to steal your dreams

1132
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 1: away from you. I am claiming ownership over you, and

1133
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 1: it's just like, leave her alone. My crush is more

1134
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 1: important than your dreams. You're like, what the fuck? Not

1135
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 1: just your dreams, but like the greatest moment in humanity's history, Like,

1136
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:18,559
Speaker 1: it's not just Jodie Foster's dreams. It's quite literally, she

1137
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 1: is the one person who has to go talk to

1138
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:24,680
Speaker 1: aliens for the first time in the human species existent

1139
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,320
Speaker 1: and he's like a little about my crush. Yeah, And

1140
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: what's especially frustrating about that is that like, yeah, she

1141
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:33,719
Speaker 1: too easily forgives him. I feel like once she learns,

1142
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 1: once he reveals to her, oh, the real reason I

1143
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:40,799
Speaker 1: voted for you not to go to Vega was because

1144
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 1: of my little crush, and then she should have been like, Okay,

1145
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 1: thanks for telling me. Now I know to never fucking

1146
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 1: talk to you again. You ask whole I was also,

1147
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:55,520
Speaker 1: I mean, particularly with that studio, like very studio notes relationship.

1148
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 1: I just first of all, this movie just could have

1149
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 1: generally been a little shorter. And that's face that Palmer

1150
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 1: Joss takes up. I feel it could have been way

1151
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 1: better used by giving Ellie a woman to talk to,

1152
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: and like, because I understand that like, you know in

1153
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:16,040
Speaker 1: her workplace, it it you know there are other female scientists.

1154
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:17,960
Speaker 1: I wish that she had someone to talk to at work.

1155
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: But if that is not possible for story reasons or

1156
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: because of the life experience that you're pulling from from

1157
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: Dr Jill and on and on, then it's like it's

1158
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: a movie. You can include other women for her to

1159
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 1: have friendships and meaningful relationships with. But I feel like

1160
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:39,639
Speaker 1: instead of using the area that we're given in this

1161
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 1: movie to build out Ellie's inner life, it's like dad

1162
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 1: and love interest and there's no and it sounds like

1163
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's extra frustrating Kelly hearing that that

1164
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 1: her mom is present in the book and there is

1165
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:56,880
Speaker 1: a relationship that we have to just kind of built

1166
01:09:56,920 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 1: her out outside of how she relates to a their

1167
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 1: men and occasionally Angela Bassett, who also doesn't get enough

1168
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: to do. The fact that she was barely in my

1169
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:12,519
Speaker 1: recap speaks to like, she's not an unimportant character, but

1170
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 1: she's not so important that she's really influencing major like

1171
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: narrative story beats. She shows up, like halfway through she

1172
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:23,640
Speaker 1: shows up. The film is just white people until like

1173
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:25,559
Speaker 1: an hour and a half in and then it's Angelo

1174
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:28,600
Speaker 1: Bassett and then that's pretty much it. It's not and

1175
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 1: you don't you don't not. You don't know what she wants,

1176
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,640
Speaker 1: you don't know why she's she, you don't know what

1177
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 1: her job is, you don't know what her opinion is.

1178
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 1: In fact, every time anyone expresses an opinion, her her

1179
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 1: opinion is. Can you guys just stop arguing, like can

1180
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 1: you can you calm down? You don't ever find out

1181
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 1: what Angela Bassett's character, what the fabric of her character is,

1182
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,920
Speaker 1: what makes her tick? Nothing, You just you just know

1183
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,879
Speaker 1: that she's like the president's mouthpiece. And because we couldn't

1184
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:56,519
Speaker 1: afford the real Bill Clinton, we have Angela Bassett sort

1185
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: of like talking for him, but there's no real We

1186
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:01,959
Speaker 1: don't they don't give her anything, and the only conversation,

1187
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 1: as with Jodie Foster, is a girlfriend I need to dress,

1188
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 1: which is problematic, which is it's so fright because it's

1189
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:10,559
Speaker 1: it would have been so cool to build out that

1190
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 1: relationship between those two characters, because they're coming from very

1191
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,360
Speaker 1: different places. You get like little tastes of it where

1192
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:19,800
Speaker 1: I like when when Angela Bassett's character Rachel is introduced.

1193
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:22,680
Speaker 1: She's just like, oh fuck, the aliens sent us a

1194
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:25,120
Speaker 1: clip of Hitler, and Jodie Foster is like no, no, no no,

1195
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 1: no no. There's like there's all this, you know, like

1196
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:30,599
Speaker 1: they're they're coming from very different places, and it would

1197
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:33,360
Speaker 1: have been cool to explore that, like, you know, Angela

1198
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 1: Bassett is like, beholden to this, you know, governmental bureaucracy,

1199
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 1: and Jodie Foster like has this totally and it's like,

1200
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:43,639
Speaker 1: well that what's going on there, Like let's get Matthew

1201
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 1: McConaughey the funk out of here. There's like better characters

1202
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:50,240
Speaker 1: for her to be interacting. Yeah, okay, I had to

1203
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 1: go out of the story. Um. Yeah, there's a really

1204
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 1: quick moment that I think could have been just like

1205
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:02,320
Speaker 1: drawn out and and explored a bit more where and

1206
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:05,280
Speaker 1: maybe I'm even like misinterpreting this, but it seems like

1207
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 1: Rachel Angela Bassett's character is kind of advocating for Ellie

1208
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 1: to be kept in control of the project because James

1209
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:15,679
Speaker 1: Woods is all like, let's militarize this, and she's like no, no, no,

1210
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:19,400
Speaker 1: like for now Ellie is in charge still, and that

1211
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 1: would have been I would have liked to just see

1212
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 1: more women lifting up other women here, because as we've

1213
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 1: kind of touched on already, there's this like recurring motif

1214
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 1: a theme throughout the movie of men taking credit for

1215
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: women's work. And this is especially true of Drumlin, who

1216
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 1: keeps like swooping in and when someone's like okay, and

1217
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 1: now the person who's the lead on the project who

1218
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:50,439
Speaker 1: made this discovery, Ellie thinks that she's about to get

1219
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:54,680
Speaker 1: called up. We think she is, but then they call

1220
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 1: up Drumlin and he takes the credit for this discovery

1221
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 1: for the most part, and then that little speech he

1222
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:03,960
Speaker 1: gives her before right before he blows up, I'm like

1223
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:08,920
Speaker 1: byre where he's like, you know, it sucks that, like

1224
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 1: you probably think we live in a meritography, but we

1225
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:16,000
Speaker 1: just don't. So about to take your dream. You're like

1226
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 1: fuck you. And like I was like, oh man, I

1227
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 1: hope he explodes, and then he did. He did, And

1228
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:24,800
Speaker 1: it's interesting. It's interesting that the film sort of positions

1229
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 1: all of this like religion narrative of like, you know,

1230
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:29,960
Speaker 1: the person who goes to meet the aliens should represent

1231
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 1: all humanity, therefore believing God. But it becomes clear that

1232
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 1: Drummond only said that he was doing it for God

1233
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:39,240
Speaker 1: to sort of be political and get the position. And

1234
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:41,719
Speaker 1: I think it was a really interesting critique of how

1235
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:45,840
Speaker 1: politicians and people in power will sort of ride that

1236
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 1: party line, will sort of placate the religious base in

1237
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:52,360
Speaker 1: order to get political gains. It was sort of an

1238
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:54,000
Speaker 1: interesting thing. And he kind of admits it to her.

1239
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm sorry that I know you were honest,

1240
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 1: but sometimes I'm butchering it. But he says something like

1241
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 1: sometimes honesty is not how you get ahead, or something

1242
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 1: like that. But he's basically like, don't hate the player,

1243
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:11,520
Speaker 1: hate the game. Yeah right, yeah, that's yeah, Okay, that's

1244
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 1: time to blow up. Yeah. I wanted to talk a

1245
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 1: little bit about this idea of selecting one person to

1246
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 1: represent all of humanity, and the only topic that gets

1247
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:26,800
Speaker 1: discussed is like religion, really, and they're like, we want

1248
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 1: someone who believes in God, and the person who ends

1249
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 1: up originally being selected is a white, able bodied, upper

1250
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:39,799
Speaker 1: class sisman from from America. And then it's a SIS

1251
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:44,360
Speaker 1: able bodied white woman who is highly educated, middle class

1252
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 1: from America. So what I would like to propose, you know,

1253
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 1: people of Earth basically should have been like, okay, Vega Aliens.

1254
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:55,800
Speaker 1: I see your one person space transport, and I raise

1255
01:14:55,880 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 1: you a one hundred person space vehicle that can carry

1256
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:05,320
Speaker 1: a larger group of people who are actually more representative

1257
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 1: of the Earth. Kelly, you were saying that more people

1258
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:12,040
Speaker 1: do go in the book. Five people go in the book,

1259
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:16,160
Speaker 1: and I believe it's like from a diverse representation of humanity.

1260
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:20,479
Speaker 1: Um uh, and each of them have This is again

1261
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:23,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to get in trouble with the sci fi fans,

1262
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 1: but I think each of them has their own like

1263
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:31,040
Speaker 1: beach experience where they each are visited by a moniker

1264
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:36,360
Speaker 1: or phantom of a memory that makes them feel uncomfortable. Um.

1265
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:39,639
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's definitely I will say this though

1266
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how you guys feel about this, but

1267
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 1: I do think the film does a good job of

1268
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 1: showing the moments where a female scientist is being stepped

1269
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:51,320
Speaker 1: on and and disregarded and underestimated and all that. But

1270
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:54,320
Speaker 1: the whole conversation, the whole campaign about whether or not

1271
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:57,519
Speaker 1: it should be Jodie Foster dr Ellie going on this trip,

1272
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:00,760
Speaker 1: I do feel like they sort of I mean, the

1273
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 1: reality is there would be so much sexism around that

1274
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 1: would be the fanfare of it and the news coverage

1275
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 1: of it, and like whether or not a woman should

1276
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 1: go or a man like that was completely not and

1277
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 1: what the virtues of having a female go versus a male,

1278
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:20,760
Speaker 1: Like what the type of diplomacy that women are by

1279
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 1: a sad default taught their whole lives to diffuse and

1280
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 1: to be you know, be good at at a sort

1281
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 1: of more maternal maternal and imperative experienceuring, nurturing and represented

1282
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:35,679
Speaker 1: him in the race because and so they don't really

1283
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:38,840
Speaker 1: that's just completely not present. It's just like, yeah, it

1284
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:41,439
Speaker 1: would be in America if there was a couple of

1285
01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:43,840
Speaker 1: women who are nominated for the campaign and men, it

1286
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 1: would just be all fair game. Well we know it

1287
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 1: wouldn't be. And that's like and I think that all

1288
01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 1: the religious as you said, it's all about religion, Well,

1289
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 1: if it is about religion, and knowing how gendered the

1290
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 1: religious space can be, especially when coming up with like

1291
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:02,720
Speaker 1: the one Messiah esque person who's gonna talk to the aliens,

1292
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:04,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like they kind of just

1293
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:08,080
Speaker 1: glossed over that JODI's not sitting there going They're not

1294
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:10,920
Speaker 1: picking me because I'm a woman, which is would be

1295
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:14,600
Speaker 1: my first thought, my first life, right, which which I

1296
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:17,680
Speaker 1: feel like it's kind of partially implied in in the

1297
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 1: text too, because she's being steamrolled by all her male

1298
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 1: superiors basically like I mean, it's I I get like,

1299
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:28,200
Speaker 1: if it's one person who can go, it's like, well

1300
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:31,960
Speaker 1: she discovered it's so like she's like I Also this

1301
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 1: reminded me of um an amazing work by friend of

1302
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:39,160
Speaker 1: the cast, Marsha Belski that has to do with sexism

1303
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:43,760
Speaker 1: in space travel, which the one hundred Tampons song, which

1304
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:46,040
Speaker 1: if you haven't heard it, you gotta hear it. But

1305
01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:49,679
Speaker 1: it's based around this, uh, this anecdote where NASA thought

1306
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 1: Sally Ride needed one hundred tampons to go into space

1307
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 1: for a week quote unquote just to be safe. Like

1308
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:59,600
Speaker 1: it's there is I mean in the friger back you go,

1309
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:02,639
Speaker 1: the worse it is, but there was a clear president

1310
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 1: for uh sexism and just a complete no understanding of

1311
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:14,800
Speaker 1: menstruating people at all. The tampons really, um, it's a

1312
01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 1: bob will link it in the description. It's really good. Yeah, yeah,

1313
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:24,000
Speaker 1: I do. I do wish that there that Um, it's

1314
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:27,520
Speaker 1: kind of it's I don't know, I mean, the sexism

1315
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:31,240
Speaker 1: that she is facing is definitely present, but it's like

1316
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 1: you don't really hear her talk about it very much.

1317
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:38,479
Speaker 1: It's interesting, it's more woman for her to talk to. Maybe, yeah,

1318
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:40,559
Speaker 1: it does seem a bit more subtle because it never

1319
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:43,400
Speaker 1: gets like specifically named, or you never have someone like

1320
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 1: Drumlind being like, who's gonna believe you? You silly women?

1321
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:51,000
Speaker 1: Women can't do science, which is fine, which is good

1322
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 1: because that would be crummy writing, right, So, but yeah,

1323
01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 1: it does get kind of glossed over. But I think

1324
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:02,040
Speaker 1: there's also something interesting about like no one's like, oh,

1325
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 1: you can't do science, you woman, and for there to

1326
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:08,200
Speaker 1: be representation of that on screen, where like people still

1327
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 1: take her seriously for the most part and acknowledge that

1328
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:15,160
Speaker 1: she is a brilliant scientist and don't really bring gender

1329
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 1: into it. Even though it might not be the most

1330
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:20,840
Speaker 1: realistic thing all the time, I still think there's something

1331
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:25,000
Speaker 1: interesting about just like allowing that to be seen by people.

1332
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:30,720
Speaker 1: I guess I just wish that maybe Jody annotates it.

1333
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:34,040
Speaker 1: She's aware of what's going on, Like it's like she's there,

1334
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:36,160
Speaker 1: there's all these things happening to her, and there this

1335
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:39,600
Speaker 1: is the moment where Drummond takes this the podium in

1336
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:42,640
Speaker 1: front of and with the president, and there there is

1337
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:47,360
Speaker 1: this feeling of immediate heartbreak and loss, but it's that's

1338
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 1: just how it is. She's just upset and that. And

1339
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:52,120
Speaker 1: then there's not that other female character for her for

1340
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:55,400
Speaker 1: her to sort of um write trade notes with and

1341
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:57,120
Speaker 1: be like, yes, this is how it is, and da

1342
01:19:57,200 --> 01:19:59,760
Speaker 1: da da, and yes this is the nineties. So that's

1343
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:01,720
Speaker 1: kind of the thing. And and you're right, there is

1344
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 1: something really remarkable where Jody is not gendering herself. She

1345
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:09,320
Speaker 1: just cares. Her bottom line is science. She identifies as

1346
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:13,240
Speaker 1: a scientist. She is scientist. Dr Ellie like, it's she

1347
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:16,800
Speaker 1: is that so um and I can relate to that

1348
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:20,400
Speaker 1: a lot, because it's like the most I don't know,

1349
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:23,920
Speaker 1: disorienting moments of sexism or when you're you're just identifying

1350
01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:26,439
Speaker 1: yourself as a as a as an artist or an

1351
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:29,679
Speaker 1: a tour or a someone who is trying to make

1352
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 1: something happen and someone else is gendering you and you're

1353
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:36,679
Speaker 1: like the math doesn't compute. You're like, oh, yeah, right,

1354
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 1: I guess you're thinking this where I'm just thinking of

1355
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:42,519
Speaker 1: myself as artist. I'm just thinking myself as mart And

1356
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:45,880
Speaker 1: and I love that in the film because that's her

1357
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:49,080
Speaker 1: like not to make a not to make a space pun,

1358
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 1: but like that's like her north Star. You know, she's

1359
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:55,559
Speaker 1: just is so. And then when she's in space and

1360
01:20:55,640 --> 01:20:59,559
Speaker 1: she sees the galaxy thing and she's like, I have

1361
01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:03,120
Speaker 1: no words, it's so beautiful. Like that, the fact that

1362
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:05,160
Speaker 1: she has those blinders on and that's all she cares

1363
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:07,559
Speaker 1: about leads up to this incredible moment, which I'll say

1364
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:10,839
Speaker 1: I only noticed last night because maybe my VHS VHS

1365
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:14,360
Speaker 1: copy was a VHS copy, which you know, for people

1366
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:17,160
Speaker 1: who know VHS, it's like it was mostly static. It

1367
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:22,719
Speaker 1: was there's this moment where she's looking at the galaxy

1368
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 1: and her face changes to her younger version of herself.

1369
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:29,600
Speaker 1: Did you guys catch that sending her voice changes? I

1370
01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:32,519
Speaker 1: don't remember that happening whatsoever. And I was like, is

1371
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 1: this like a remastering like someone who made the Blu

1372
01:21:36,040 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 1: Ray the Blue Ray DVD was like, let's add this

1373
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:43,519
Speaker 1: weird moment because the technology almost almost also feels too

1374
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:47,479
Speaker 1: good to advance for seven Yeah, well, I mean I'm

1375
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:49,559
Speaker 1: not sure if you guys remember that sweet CG action,

1376
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 1: but it was not seamless and there was super great

1377
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:57,920
Speaker 1: I really, I mean it's I'm I'm so interested to

1378
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:01,040
Speaker 1: hear both of your perspectives and how the sexism in

1379
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:04,120
Speaker 1: this movie is treated. And I yeah, I'm kind of

1380
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:07,080
Speaker 1: of like two minds about it where it I think

1381
01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:09,040
Speaker 1: I would have really rolled my eyes if they came

1382
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:12,439
Speaker 1: at it from a super nineties like a woman can't

1383
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:15,120
Speaker 1: do this, and she goes, well, guess what I'm going

1384
01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:19,160
Speaker 1: to show you? Like that is such a convention that

1385
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:22,840
Speaker 1: and and I feel like you can really tell that

1386
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:26,320
Speaker 1: someone who had experienced this kind of discrimination had been

1387
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:30,559
Speaker 1: consulted because the examples are so like baked into the movie,

1388
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:33,759
Speaker 1: so it's like Jill Tarter's consultation. You can like feel

1389
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 1: it in the way that like even in moments that

1390
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:40,040
Speaker 1: that were very small where there's a scene where Jodie

1391
01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:42,200
Speaker 1: Foster is trying to talk to Angela Bassett as they're

1392
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:44,519
Speaker 1: doing a very West wing walk through the white House

1393
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:48,080
Speaker 1: moment and what I kept calling him a drum line

1394
01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 1: in my head, Uh, drumline, drum line. Drumline just starts

1395
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:56,519
Speaker 1: talking over her and like start continues her sentence as

1396
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:58,400
Speaker 1: if it was his own idea, and you're like, yeah,

1397
01:22:58,479 --> 01:23:02,200
Speaker 1: that's such a small thing, but it really connects. And

1398
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:05,800
Speaker 1: I do think that like the most elegant way to

1399
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 1: acknowledge it without making it like a real bash over

1400
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 1: the head third wave feminism moment is to just give

1401
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:14,760
Speaker 1: her someone to talk to about it, even in passing,

1402
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:17,920
Speaker 1: like I feel like it would have helped. But that said,

1403
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:21,280
Speaker 1: I feel like the the sexism she experienced this is

1404
01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:25,120
Speaker 1: pretty clear. I mean, especially at like the James Wood

1405
01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:28,639
Speaker 1: screaming at her on national television of like blaming her

1406
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:32,440
Speaker 1: for all sorts of ship. That makes no sense. You're delusional,

1407
01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 1: you were hysterical, you hallucinated the whole thing. And the

1408
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:41,479
Speaker 1: way that she keeps her cool like is so it's

1409
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:44,639
Speaker 1: like she's like you're saying, like she's a scientist first,

1410
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:47,439
Speaker 1: and she's like, okay, as a scientist, I have to say, like, yeah,

1411
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:50,000
Speaker 1: I don't have any people like maybe you're maybe you

1412
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:52,080
Speaker 1: should have given me better than like a pair of

1413
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:56,320
Speaker 1: five dollar headphones, like attached to a little metal headband

1414
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 1: with nobs, no body pins. They weren't attached. And I

1415
01:23:59,880 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 1: just love that Jody, even when she's like traverse dimensions

1416
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:06,640
Speaker 1: and she's on some sort of like tropical beach with

1417
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:09,080
Speaker 1: her dad. She's still like, are you guys reading this?

1418
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:13,920
Speaker 1: Like she still has confidence and she's like, I have

1419
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 1: to record this. I I can have confidence in this

1420
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:19,160
Speaker 1: little too hicky. Um, yeah, you're you're still right. It

1421
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:22,240
Speaker 1: is sort of that that nineties convention of of like

1422
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:25,320
Speaker 1: a woman can't do that, and like that's detrimental and

1423
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:30,960
Speaker 1: problematic and leave such a horrible like graveyard of films

1424
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:34,880
Speaker 1: where you're watching women be like subject subjectified and and

1425
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:37,760
Speaker 1: all that stuff. So and I will say that I

1426
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:43,479
Speaker 1: would categorize this film in the canon of pre you

1427
01:24:43,520 --> 01:24:47,040
Speaker 1: know where we're at now, I guess pre me too

1428
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:50,439
Speaker 1: area era where we're sort of not find a lot

1429
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:52,120
Speaker 1: of the things we know and how the functions of

1430
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:54,600
Speaker 1: these films work has not been normalized. Where I have

1431
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:58,080
Speaker 1: to give a lot of credit to Jodie Foster and

1432
01:24:58,080 --> 01:25:01,920
Speaker 1: and a lot of actresses at this time period and

1433
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:04,760
Speaker 1: from the last hundred years of filmmaking who are the

1434
01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:08,400
Speaker 1: sort of like last vestige or last stance of of

1435
01:25:08,439 --> 01:25:10,680
Speaker 1: being able to advocate for themselves on set. Like I

1436
01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:14,360
Speaker 1: constantly read interviews with with Meryl Streep and and and

1437
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:17,080
Speaker 1: actors who have been working forever, who are like I

1438
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 1: literally had to sit down with the writer and say,

1439
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:22,120
Speaker 1: she wouldn't do that. That's not what she did, would

1440
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:26,280
Speaker 1: do She cares about science and at Female actors just

1441
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:29,639
Speaker 1: don't get this sort of retroactive credit that I think

1442
01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 1: that they deserve for advocating for their storylines. I'm trying.

1443
01:25:34,360 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 1: I'm blanking on the film that I read Meryl Streep

1444
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:39,519
Speaker 1: talking about this, the one. Maybe it's the one with

1445
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:43,000
Speaker 1: Deer and the title. What's the title of that film, Dear,

1446
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:49,080
Speaker 1: dear hunter, no killing of a sacred dear damn it,

1447
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:51,280
Speaker 1: I'll have to I can't remember, But there's a one

1448
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:54,040
Speaker 1: where she talks about like, basically I had to help

1449
01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:57,439
Speaker 1: rewrite that film because the because the female character made

1450
01:25:57,479 --> 01:26:00,360
Speaker 1: no sense, and it's the making of no sense. The

1451
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:04,000
Speaker 1: sort of the thing we're struggling with is it makes

1452
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:07,639
Speaker 1: no sense that her relationship with Palmer Joss. It doesn't

1453
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:11,559
Speaker 1: to us. It reads false because we know we know

1454
01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:14,160
Speaker 1: it makes her tick, We know the fiber of her character,

1455
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:16,000
Speaker 1: we know what she would live and die for. She

1456
01:26:16,040 --> 01:26:19,720
Speaker 1: says it. She says, I believe this is worth dying for.

1457
01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:24,040
Speaker 1: She says it so the falsities in her behavior, the

1458
01:26:25,040 --> 01:26:29,240
Speaker 1: choice to forgive Palmer for quite literally stomping on something

1459
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:34,000
Speaker 1: that she is willing to die for, it reads so false.

1460
01:26:34,240 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 1: So I mean, I just have to give credit to

1461
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:40,439
Speaker 1: Jody because I can't imagine that she wasn't on set

1462
01:26:40,479 --> 01:26:43,960
Speaker 1: with those with her, you know, running around looking for

1463
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:46,439
Speaker 1: the writer and the producer and the director with her

1464
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:49,360
Speaker 1: script in hand, being like, no, she cares about science. No,

1465
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:52,160
Speaker 1: she cares about science, and it's on every line she says.

1466
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 1: And it's so radiant in that way. It's such a

1467
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:58,479
Speaker 1: radiant performance because it's like from the very first thing

1468
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:00,640
Speaker 1: we see her in as a young girl to the

1469
01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:04,439
Speaker 1: very end of the film and her admitting, yes, I

1470
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:07,280
Speaker 1: can't give you empirical evidence as a scientist, I must

1471
01:27:07,320 --> 01:27:12,040
Speaker 1: concede that like her church, her God, her religion is

1472
01:27:12,160 --> 01:27:15,360
Speaker 1: almost more realized than any religion that is represented in

1473
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:19,040
Speaker 1: the film. Her religion is so realized in science. Shout

1474
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:23,320
Speaker 1: out to Jody. She's she. They named an asteroid after

1475
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:27,719
Speaker 1: her after the movie came up early. There's an asteroid

1476
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:30,960
Speaker 1: named after Jodie Foster. I have to I'm assuming off

1477
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:33,639
Speaker 1: of the success of Contact, but maybe just her impact,

1478
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:35,320
Speaker 1: and so felt that they're like, well, we were going

1479
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:39,639
Speaker 1: to do this anyways, but yeah, Asteroid seventeen seven forty

1480
01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:47,880
Speaker 1: four Jodie Fostering One thing though, the did ring more

1481
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 1: true though in the movie was and already touched on this.

1482
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:54,720
Speaker 1: But like for me, for example, when I have been

1483
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:58,720
Speaker 1: on the receiving end of sexism, it hasn't most of

1484
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:01,880
Speaker 1: the time, it hasn't been someone being like, oh, well

1485
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:05,680
Speaker 1: you're a woman, so you can't do this. It's just

1486
01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:08,439
Speaker 1: been like more subtle stuff like me being talked over,

1487
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:13,600
Speaker 1: me being interrupted, me, like people passing me over for opportunities,

1488
01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:16,479
Speaker 1: like things like that. That is what Jody Foster's character

1489
01:28:16,520 --> 01:28:20,000
Speaker 1: is experiencing in this movie. So I appreciate that you

1490
01:28:20,080 --> 01:28:24,400
Speaker 1: do have this like what we clearly identify as sexism,

1491
01:28:24,439 --> 01:28:29,880
Speaker 1: but it is not super overt or explicit. The sexism is,

1492
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 1: you know, more covert and subtle, which again I think

1493
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:37,760
Speaker 1: is a more common version of how people's sexism manifests.

1494
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:41,720
Speaker 1: So that happening in the movie to Jody's character just

1495
01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:45,200
Speaker 1: ran very true. Right, It's a very good point, very

1496
01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:48,519
Speaker 1: good point. One thing I wanted to quickly shout out

1497
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:51,519
Speaker 1: this was kind of my last note on Ellie was

1498
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:54,280
Speaker 1: it like exists throughout the background of the film. But

1499
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:58,120
Speaker 1: I really liked her friendship with her coworker Kent. I

1500
01:28:58,160 --> 01:29:01,920
Speaker 1: thought that that was really lovely. And it's I think

1501
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:05,719
Speaker 1: it's just again, it's like we're really looking for scraps

1502
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:08,599
Speaker 1: in movies from the nineties in particular. But the fact

1503
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:12,320
Speaker 1: that she had like a very just a platonic friendship

1504
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:14,479
Speaker 1: that seemed to be built on a lot of mutual

1505
01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:17,360
Speaker 1: respect for each other with her friend Kent, and I

1506
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:18,880
Speaker 1: just thought it was so nice. And then when he

1507
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:20,960
Speaker 1: shows up at the end, she's like, oh my god,

1508
01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:23,920
Speaker 1: my friend Ken. And then he hears her. He's the

1509
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:26,360
Speaker 1: one who hears her saying, yeah, he to go. I

1510
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:30,040
Speaker 1: started sobbing. I started sobbing. I sobbed a lot last night. Guys.

1511
01:29:30,040 --> 01:29:32,800
Speaker 1: I'm really trying to play cool, but I sobbed hard

1512
01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:35,720
Speaker 1: at the end of Jodie's whole You know, yeah, that

1513
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:39,040
Speaker 1: that relationship with Kent is really really interesting. I think

1514
01:29:39,080 --> 01:29:42,720
Speaker 1: it's a little problematic the portrayal of a blind man

1515
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:45,920
Speaker 1: that he plays. It's a little you're kind of again,

1516
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:48,559
Speaker 1: as you said, playing for scraps with movies in the nineties,

1517
01:29:48,920 --> 01:29:52,519
Speaker 1: because it's not only that he's portrayed as blind, but

1518
01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:57,120
Speaker 1: almost that he's I don't know, something to be um

1519
01:29:57,160 --> 01:29:59,559
Speaker 1: to kind of handle with kid gloves a little bit,

1520
01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:04,000
Speaker 1: Like the portrayal of of him as blind is sort

1521
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:05,840
Speaker 1: of I don't know. I'm not sure what you guys

1522
01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:08,479
Speaker 1: think about that. Yeah, I was trying to find writing

1523
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:12,439
Speaker 1: about this and I couldn't find anything specifically about this

1524
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:17,479
Speaker 1: character in regards to the representation of a blind or

1525
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:22,400
Speaker 1: visually impaired person. Definitely, it's problematic that the character is

1526
01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:25,880
Speaker 1: not played by an actor who is blind. Um, he's

1527
01:30:25,880 --> 01:30:30,360
Speaker 1: played by William Fitchner, who is not blind. It felt

1528
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:33,520
Speaker 1: to me, and this is just kind of my limited understanding,

1529
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:37,559
Speaker 1: but it felt like there were not a slew of

1530
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:40,680
Speaker 1: tropes surrounding blindness that you do see in a lot

1531
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:43,000
Speaker 1: of movies that are like really problematic. I feel like

1532
01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:47,280
Speaker 1: this movie avoided a fair number of those tropes. But

1533
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:51,439
Speaker 1: I'm curious what listeners thoughts are on this, particularly anyone

1534
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:55,760
Speaker 1: with a visual impairment. Um. I also so Kent is

1535
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:59,720
Speaker 1: based on a real person who was part of this

1536
01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:04,080
Speaker 1: project who was blind, So it's I don't know, Yeah,

1537
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:07,520
Speaker 1: I would be really curious to hear what our listeners

1538
01:31:07,680 --> 01:31:09,720
Speaker 1: think on that. But I was I was like, oh,

1539
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:13,759
Speaker 1: it is based on a real person who Jill Tarter

1540
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:16,479
Speaker 1: knew and worked with, So it seems like that they

1541
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:19,400
Speaker 1: were pulling from like some sort of real life dynamic

1542
01:31:19,439 --> 01:31:22,520
Speaker 1: that actually existed. But again it's I mean, the conversation

1543
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:26,000
Speaker 1: around actors who who do not have the disability of

1544
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:29,080
Speaker 1: the characters are portraying is like, you know, very ongoing

1545
01:31:29,280 --> 01:31:32,240
Speaker 1: conversation that we want to you know, be a part

1546
01:31:32,240 --> 01:31:34,880
Speaker 1: of and keep learning about. So shout out to the

1547
01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:38,439
Speaker 1: real Kent colors I'm seeing I'm kind of seeing this

1548
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:41,920
Speaker 1: in real time. But there's a documentary on him and

1549
01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 1: on his career. Um, he is the first American astronomer

1550
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:50,599
Speaker 1: who was blind from birth and he continued to work

1551
01:31:50,720 --> 01:31:55,840
Speaker 1: at the Seti Institute until two thousand five. So very cool.

1552
01:31:56,600 --> 01:31:59,040
Speaker 1: It sounds sounds like a legend. I'm like, with all

1553
01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:01,200
Speaker 1: this stuff, I like, I don't understand science, but that

1554
01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:05,000
Speaker 1: sounds pretty cool. But yeah, shout out, shout out Kent.

1555
01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:10,320
Speaker 1: I just wanted to address some of the science stuff

1556
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:13,360
Speaker 1: because it really bothers me. At the end, when James

1557
01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:18,720
Speaker 1: Woods goes absolutely like batshit on her, like, like the

1558
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:22,040
Speaker 1: the expectation that she would have evidence and it's on

1559
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:25,400
Speaker 1: her to provide it is it still makes me angry

1560
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:28,040
Speaker 1: in it and it and speaking of like remembering what

1561
01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:30,679
Speaker 1: this film felt like when I was young, I remember

1562
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:34,080
Speaker 1: this feeling of feeling frustrated. But what doesn't make sense

1563
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:38,040
Speaker 1: to me is, you know, Palmer at one point and

1564
01:32:38,080 --> 01:32:42,840
Speaker 1: her have this conversation about, well, fifty years may pass,

1565
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:45,320
Speaker 1: like it might be a forty five seconds on Earth

1566
01:32:45,360 --> 01:32:47,080
Speaker 1: and that might be fifty years, and he's like, are

1567
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:48,920
Speaker 1: you chill with that? And she's like, I'm chill with

1568
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:50,680
Speaker 1: that because this is my life's work and this is

1569
01:32:50,680 --> 01:32:53,320
Speaker 1: like what humanity is for and all that. But for

1570
01:32:53,360 --> 01:32:55,800
Speaker 1: some reason, like that is not brought back into the

1571
01:32:55,840 --> 01:32:59,800
Speaker 1: possible explanation as to why she thinks that she had

1572
01:32:59,840 --> 01:33:03,360
Speaker 1: this huge experience and this um like that. Why does

1573
01:33:03,439 --> 01:33:06,840
Speaker 1: that not brought up that the space time continuum, the

1574
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:10,080
Speaker 1: inflation of space of time at the end in the Senate,

1575
01:33:10,439 --> 01:33:14,160
Speaker 1: why isn't she like, well, as we've talked about, time

1576
01:33:14,200 --> 01:33:17,160
Speaker 1: on Earth is forty five seconds, but passing through multiple

1577
01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:20,600
Speaker 1: wormholes into you know, lightning years away, time is going

1578
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:23,520
Speaker 1: to be bloated in this way which which they already

1579
01:33:23,640 --> 01:33:27,680
Speaker 1: established as being a thing. Even a theologian who is

1580
01:33:27,720 --> 01:33:30,840
Speaker 1: not a man of science understands. He's like, you're gonna

1581
01:33:30,840 --> 01:33:32,960
Speaker 1: be gone for fifty years, even though it will only

1582
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 1: seem like maybe four years to you, right, So like, yeah,

1583
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:39,880
Speaker 1: you already know that time is different and that is

1584
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:45,360
Speaker 1: perceived differently. Seconds dropping through dropping through will be could

1585
01:33:45,439 --> 01:33:48,760
Speaker 1: be a lifetime. And so that's what makes me mad,

1586
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:51,400
Speaker 1: And mostly that that James Wood thought that he's allowed

1587
01:33:51,439 --> 01:33:54,799
Speaker 1: to stand up in that sense hearing and turn around

1588
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:57,040
Speaker 1: and yell at her, and like I'm like, who told

1589
01:33:57,080 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 1: you you're allowed to stand up in those things? It

1590
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:02,519
Speaker 1: seems very intentional that he's like making this show of

1591
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:05,160
Speaker 1: it because it's televised and like all this stuff, and

1592
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:09,479
Speaker 1: like the nineties was so full of women's truth being

1593
01:34:09,520 --> 01:34:14,040
Speaker 1: discredited on live television for people to to watch that

1594
01:34:14,160 --> 01:34:16,720
Speaker 1: it was like, oh god, there were so many like

1595
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:19,400
Speaker 1: other hearings like that that had nothing to do with

1596
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:21,920
Speaker 1: space that like your head kind of goes to when

1597
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:25,920
Speaker 1: you see like a really aggressive man discrediting what a

1598
01:34:25,960 --> 01:34:29,559
Speaker 1: woman says is like the truth. And also, Kelly, when

1599
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:32,280
Speaker 1: you mentioned this earlier, I was like, oh yeah, like

1600
01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:36,400
Speaker 1: the fact that James Wood is like blaming equipment failure

1601
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:40,960
Speaker 1: that she didn't design on hers Like for what, like

1602
01:34:41,040 --> 01:34:42,640
Speaker 1: if you would think that someone else in the room

1603
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:45,280
Speaker 1: would be like, hold on, she didn't make those shitty

1604
01:34:45,320 --> 01:34:50,040
Speaker 1: headphones like Sony did or whatever. You have no evidence.

1605
01:34:50,280 --> 01:34:52,880
Speaker 1: You didn't bring back any evidence, Like what the hell

1606
01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:57,200
Speaker 1: was she supposed to do besides just experience it? You know.

1607
01:34:57,280 --> 01:35:00,599
Speaker 1: It's like she's like, um, yeah, I I'm not like

1608
01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:06,120
Speaker 1: a documentarian. I'm a scientist. Experiencing science like it was

1609
01:35:06,920 --> 01:35:09,479
Speaker 1: very It made me so angry and then I had

1610
01:35:09,560 --> 01:35:12,599
Speaker 1: like like flashbacks to being angry as a kid being

1611
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:16,479
Speaker 1: And I don't know, this film was more formative than

1612
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:19,519
Speaker 1: I thought that. I was quite aware of rewatching and

1613
01:35:19,560 --> 01:35:21,960
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this did wire itself onto my d

1614
01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:27,200
Speaker 1: n A. Yeah, those moments they're frustrating, not because they're

1615
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:31,120
Speaker 1: like poorly written. They're frustrating because like it's representative of

1616
01:35:31,160 --> 01:35:34,920
Speaker 1: like again, sexism that exists in the world, and like

1617
01:35:35,320 --> 01:35:39,080
Speaker 1: him just not believing women is sexism that exists in

1618
01:35:39,080 --> 01:35:42,679
Speaker 1: the world. For them to then go outside and people

1619
01:35:42,720 --> 01:35:45,679
Speaker 1: were like mmmmmm, Ellie, yeah, I see that you're there,

1620
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:49,280
Speaker 1: But hey, Mr Mr Perlmer, what do you do you

1621
01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:52,839
Speaker 1: believe her? What do you believe? And people are focused

1622
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:56,720
Speaker 1: on the opinion of this man, and it's very frustrating

1623
01:35:56,760 --> 01:35:59,840
Speaker 1: because it's sexism that is very familiar to us. You know,

1624
01:36:00,040 --> 01:36:04,240
Speaker 1: people only believing a woman if a man is validating her.

1625
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:09,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's something that the movie is handling very effectively.

1626
01:36:09,120 --> 01:36:11,599
Speaker 1: I think I just hate the part where the man

1627
01:36:11,960 --> 01:36:14,960
Speaker 1: who is validating her is also this like wedged in

1628
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:18,639
Speaker 1: love interest. Those I mean, those those studio notes scenes

1629
01:36:18,720 --> 01:36:22,439
Speaker 1: are so agregious and so cudible to like, it was

1630
01:36:22,520 --> 01:36:30,560
Speaker 1: just like you could cut the like, I just it's painful.

1631
01:36:30,680 --> 01:36:35,000
Speaker 1: It's painful to watch. We we have references he at

1632
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:37,800
Speaker 1: the movie, but this is an extremely white movie in

1633
01:36:37,840 --> 01:36:42,760
Speaker 1: a way that is very unnecessary. And I mean, the

1634
01:36:42,800 --> 01:36:45,400
Speaker 1: only black character that has any real impact in the

1635
01:36:45,439 --> 01:36:49,559
Speaker 1: movie is Angela Bassett's character Rachel, who, as we said,

1636
01:36:49,760 --> 01:36:53,200
Speaker 1: she she has a strong function, she's a strongly motivated character,

1637
01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:54,960
Speaker 1: but we don't know anything about her and we don't

1638
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:57,479
Speaker 1: get any look into her interior life. We don't really

1639
01:36:57,479 --> 01:37:02,280
Speaker 1: get to know except until I mean, honestly, we don't

1640
01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:05,640
Speaker 1: know what she thinks about, Like Jodie Foster is she

1641
01:37:05,680 --> 01:37:07,400
Speaker 1: because we couldn't figure out is she the kind of

1642
01:37:07,479 --> 01:37:10,080
Speaker 1: character that's going to want to people to know, or

1643
01:37:10,120 --> 01:37:12,680
Speaker 1: maybe she's not. Maybe she's like I've I am a

1644
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:16,240
Speaker 1: bureaucratic person, and I'll keep it quiet, like we just

1645
01:37:16,280 --> 01:37:19,040
Speaker 1: don't know, we're well enough to know. I wanted to

1646
01:37:19,120 --> 01:37:24,240
Speaker 1: shout out legendary character actor Tucker Smallwood, who plays the

1647
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:28,720
Speaker 1: mission control guy. He almost presses the red button, but

1648
01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:31,640
Speaker 1: then I couldn't tell that his character was given a

1649
01:37:31,920 --> 01:37:35,320
Speaker 1: name or not. He was like pretty like active for

1650
01:37:35,439 --> 01:37:37,760
Speaker 1: like a you know, the climax of the movie. But

1651
01:37:38,080 --> 01:37:40,720
Speaker 1: I didn't even figure out. But he's just credited as

1652
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:45,720
Speaker 1: mission director, which is so ridiculous. You're like, what the

1653
01:37:46,640 --> 01:37:49,920
Speaker 1: what the like? Could you be lazier and more dismissive

1654
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,680
Speaker 1: because he he was. He was great. He was you know,

1655
01:37:52,960 --> 01:37:56,360
Speaker 1: he was Mr. Red Button like and and then there

1656
01:37:56,439 --> 01:37:59,880
Speaker 1: there um was. I think in the first crew of

1657
01:38:00,040 --> 01:38:02,760
Speaker 1: scientists there was one black scientist who says like one

1658
01:38:02,840 --> 01:38:06,080
Speaker 1: line and then he's gone, and everyone else it's just

1659
01:38:06,240 --> 01:38:11,360
Speaker 1: it's just white people. You have to Japanese um engineers

1660
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:14,679
Speaker 1: or engineers. Yeah, but they but as you said, Kelly,

1661
01:38:14,720 --> 01:38:18,400
Speaker 1: they they say like maybe a line and that's it.

1662
01:38:18,720 --> 01:38:22,040
Speaker 1: They say nothing. And they also sort of portray a

1663
01:38:22,280 --> 01:38:26,120
Speaker 1: stereotype of Japanese scientists, and that is sort of this

1664
01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:31,479
Speaker 1: kind of stereotype of of of subservience. And um, I

1665
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:34,600
Speaker 1: find that deeply problematic because you because, especially knowing in

1666
01:38:34,640 --> 01:38:39,240
Speaker 1: the book how much the Japanese science and inventors have

1667
01:38:39,640 --> 01:38:42,479
Speaker 1: such a say in the in the Final Machine, So

1668
01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:47,559
Speaker 1: it's a very American lens of how Japanese people behave

1669
01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:50,439
Speaker 1: in a way, That's what I felt. Yeah, I think

1670
01:38:50,479 --> 01:38:53,479
Speaker 1: it's like ultimately, I mean, even speaking to to what

1671
01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:56,400
Speaker 1: the book represents, like this should very much be a

1672
01:38:56,439 --> 01:39:01,760
Speaker 1: global story that is inclusive of more than white Americans

1673
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:05,720
Speaker 1: and and and it seems like that was a very conscious,

1674
01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:10,960
Speaker 1: like goober Hollywood style choice is to only center sist

1675
01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:14,840
Speaker 1: straight white Americans in this story that should be I mean,

1676
01:39:14,920 --> 01:39:19,040
Speaker 1: it's it's like an event for humanity, not middle class

1677
01:39:19,040 --> 01:39:23,040
Speaker 1: white Americans. And so that is you know, definitely worth

1678
01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:26,080
Speaker 1: you know, continuing to be critical of because we had

1679
01:39:26,080 --> 01:39:30,880
Speaker 1: a similar conversation on our episode about Arrival, which we

1680
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:35,000
Speaker 1: covered on our on the Patreon slash Matren similar movies,

1681
01:39:35,080 --> 01:39:38,559
Speaker 1: and that a woman in stem is the protagonist of

1682
01:39:38,600 --> 01:39:42,760
Speaker 1: the of a movie where aliens make contact with the

1683
01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:46,440
Speaker 1: people of Earth, but it is still very like America

1684
01:39:46,800 --> 01:39:53,200
Speaker 1: centric narrative, as many Hollywood sci fi films are. I mean,

1685
01:39:53,240 --> 01:39:58,160
Speaker 1: I watched, as I said, unfortunately, I watched um Interstellar recently,

1686
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:02,280
Speaker 1: and that one is I missed it when it came out,

1687
01:40:02,400 --> 01:40:06,800
Speaker 1: and it's breathtaking how little any other place in the

1688
01:40:06,880 --> 01:40:12,440
Speaker 1: whole goddamn world is represented besides America. Like the concept

1689
01:40:12,520 --> 01:40:17,040
Speaker 1: is that Earth is dying, that resources are are impoverished

1690
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:20,720
Speaker 1: and depleting, and crops are dying, and all they show

1691
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:25,280
Speaker 1: is this back country American farm. They don't show anywhere

1692
01:40:25,280 --> 01:40:27,559
Speaker 1: else in the world that would be absolutely far more

1693
01:40:27,640 --> 01:40:30,120
Speaker 1: strapped if the world was if the if there was

1694
01:40:30,200 --> 01:40:33,360
Speaker 1: windstorms and you know, climate changes we're dealing with now,

1695
01:40:33,439 --> 01:40:37,760
Speaker 1: like as if it wouldn't be Indonesia or anywhere other

1696
01:40:37,840 --> 01:40:41,920
Speaker 1: than or in Haiti, where like the very front lines

1697
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:45,679
Speaker 1: of climate change and places where these where that type

1698
01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:49,240
Speaker 1: of shift and degree in climate would be most readily felt.

1699
01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:54,280
Speaker 1: And it's like it's literally just Jessica Chas Dane and

1700
01:40:54,600 --> 01:40:58,320
Speaker 1: Matthew McConaughey's fam who are struggling on their farm and

1701
01:40:58,840 --> 01:41:02,040
Speaker 1: they're you know, he's going to fix the world, start

1702
01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:06,439
Speaker 1: a new colony with only white people, and it's it's

1703
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:09,400
Speaker 1: a sad tradition of of this type of movie. But

1704
01:41:09,439 --> 01:41:12,080
Speaker 1: I also think it filters into this sort of American

1705
01:41:12,120 --> 01:41:14,840
Speaker 1: identity of being like the only ones who have ever

1706
01:41:15,439 --> 01:41:19,759
Speaker 1: uh participated in the space exploration space or the sorry

1707
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:23,040
Speaker 1: space exploration space like that sounds that's that's not the

1708
01:41:23,080 --> 01:41:27,680
Speaker 1: best way to say that space exploration. But yeah, I

1709
01:41:27,720 --> 01:41:29,519
Speaker 1: mean like this idea that we're like, we have to

1710
01:41:29,560 --> 01:41:33,479
Speaker 1: be the saviors of humanity. Yeah, it's just such as

1711
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:36,879
Speaker 1: an outsider watching it, I mean, outside of being Canadian,

1712
01:41:36,960 --> 01:41:40,240
Speaker 1: non American, it has always been such a difficult and

1713
01:41:40,320 --> 01:41:43,600
Speaker 1: weird pill to swallow, like the constant flags that you

1714
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:47,439
Speaker 1: American flags on new planets that you see in every

1715
01:41:47,439 --> 01:41:50,719
Speaker 1: flipping movie. You know, it is bizarre to me because

1716
01:41:51,120 --> 01:41:55,000
Speaker 1: the end the tradition of engineering and science and technology

1717
01:41:55,120 --> 01:41:58,960
Speaker 1: and and stem in all forms is so diverse. It

1718
01:41:59,080 --> 01:42:02,960
Speaker 1: is so oh god, look, it just makes me want

1719
01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:06,439
Speaker 1: to break something in a not in like a less

1720
01:42:06,520 --> 01:42:12,280
Speaker 1: violent wait. But you know, Interstellar Arrival has that any

1721
01:42:12,280 --> 01:42:15,680
Speaker 1: type of let's save humanity has that ilk of and

1722
01:42:15,800 --> 01:42:21,360
Speaker 1: guess who our saviors are Team America. Yeah, I also

1723
01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:25,599
Speaker 1: found it. Maybe this is just me, but it gets

1724
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:28,840
Speaker 1: mentioned in the movie that half a trillion dollars is

1725
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:32,520
Speaker 1: spent on this project, and you hear like similar stories

1726
01:42:32,960 --> 01:42:36,880
Speaker 1: in real life about all this, Like federal money is

1727
01:42:36,920 --> 01:42:40,639
Speaker 1: doing right now, private money, federal money being spent on

1728
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:44,880
Speaker 1: space exploration and stuff like that, which is important people

1729
01:42:44,920 --> 01:42:47,719
Speaker 1: who are working on that, Like, I understand that that's important,

1730
01:42:48,200 --> 01:42:52,320
Speaker 1: but also like a large percentage of the world's population

1731
01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:54,760
Speaker 1: is living in poverty, so like, I don't know, maybe

1732
01:42:54,840 --> 01:42:59,519
Speaker 1: let's focus on Earth's issues before we like spend trillions

1733
01:42:59,560 --> 01:43:02,839
Speaker 1: of dollars. Right now, you're quoting, this is what Palmer

1734
01:43:02,880 --> 01:43:04,800
Speaker 1: was talking about at the beginning of the film, and

1735
01:43:04,840 --> 01:43:09,800
Speaker 1: it never panned out. Not you agree with Palmer, Yeah,

1736
01:43:10,080 --> 01:43:12,719
Speaker 1: sort of what Palmer was talking about, sort of like,

1737
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:14,960
Speaker 1: you know, how do you how do you explore other

1738
01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:17,360
Speaker 1: places when you're not taking care of the people in

1739
01:43:17,400 --> 01:43:20,479
Speaker 1: your backyard. And that's not to say that Palmer had

1740
01:43:20,520 --> 01:43:23,759
Speaker 1: a point, but he did have some points. Points were made.

1741
01:43:23,840 --> 01:43:27,240
Speaker 1: He had one point. Yeah, it never really came up. Again, Um,

1742
01:43:27,280 --> 01:43:31,320
Speaker 1: here's my hot take about this movie. Ready, everyone, So

1743
01:43:31,400 --> 01:43:34,080
Speaker 1: the you know, all the billions of dollars that they

1744
01:43:34,120 --> 01:43:38,080
Speaker 1: spend on this machine and this trip that Ellie takes,

1745
01:43:38,720 --> 01:43:41,559
Speaker 1: the conversation that she ends up having with the alien

1746
01:43:42,240 --> 01:43:45,400
Speaker 1: could have been an email. They didn't need, they didn't

1747
01:43:45,400 --> 01:43:48,760
Speaker 1: need to build a machine. Why why aren't they just

1748
01:43:48,840 --> 01:43:51,760
Speaker 1: sending out some emails? You know, I didn't have to

1749
01:43:51,800 --> 01:43:54,240
Speaker 1: be a meeting. Could have been an email, thank you?

1750
01:43:54,400 --> 01:43:56,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that that's if there's anything you know,

1751
01:43:56,320 --> 01:43:58,639
Speaker 1: That's another thing that we've learned in the past year.

1752
01:43:58,720 --> 01:44:01,040
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things could could have just been

1753
01:44:01,080 --> 01:44:04,920
Speaker 1: an email. Yeah, could have been an email. A well

1754
01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:07,400
Speaker 1: written email feels as good as a revisit from your

1755
01:44:07,400 --> 01:44:10,639
Speaker 1: dead dad, honestly, but also to send it fire off

1756
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:14,839
Speaker 1: a bunch of prime numbers. See if anyone responds, Hey, Ellie,

1757
01:44:14,920 --> 01:44:22,040
Speaker 1: it's your dad. That's emoticon? Doesn't she know which emojis?

1758
01:44:22,080 --> 01:44:25,840
Speaker 1: Does the aliens feel like alien species? Go with? Oh goodness?

1759
01:44:26,840 --> 01:44:30,880
Speaker 1: Does this movie pass the back told test it. I

1760
01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:34,519
Speaker 1: think it's technically does, but it's not a very satisfying pass.

1761
01:44:34,640 --> 01:44:37,280
Speaker 1: That was what I That was my conclusion. Yeah, there

1762
01:44:37,280 --> 01:44:41,080
Speaker 1: were two conversations that I felt were candidates for passing.

1763
01:44:41,479 --> 01:44:45,479
Speaker 1: One where Angela Bassett is she's kind of addressing a

1764
01:44:45,520 --> 01:44:48,680
Speaker 1: whole room full of people, but she like looks at

1765
01:44:48,720 --> 01:44:52,400
Speaker 1: Ellie a couple of times and Ellie responds and Ellie response.

1766
01:44:52,439 --> 01:44:55,200
Speaker 1: But it's that conversation where like Rachel is saying that

1767
01:44:55,640 --> 01:44:59,240
Speaker 1: for now, like Ellie will remain in charge of this

1768
01:44:59,320 --> 01:45:04,000
Speaker 1: like decrypt effort. A few men are mentioned in that conversation,

1769
01:45:04,479 --> 01:45:08,320
Speaker 1: so that one's a little murky. And then later when

1770
01:45:08,360 --> 01:45:11,160
Speaker 1: Ellie is like, hey, Rachel, do you know where I

1771
01:45:11,200 --> 01:45:14,519
Speaker 1: can find a really great dress because women be talking

1772
01:45:14,560 --> 01:45:22,200
Speaker 1: about shopping? Yikes, technically, but I think that the context,

1773
01:45:22,280 --> 01:45:24,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, maybe it is a reach

1774
01:45:24,040 --> 01:45:26,200
Speaker 1: today the context is like, because I want to look

1775
01:45:26,280 --> 01:45:30,479
Speaker 1: nice for Matthew McConaughey. That was the implied context to me. Yes, exactly,

1776
01:45:30,680 --> 01:45:33,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give this one like a Barrelly pass. It's

1777
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:35,840
Speaker 1: not it's not a great If it is a pass,

1778
01:45:35,960 --> 01:45:40,000
Speaker 1: it's not, it's not a great one. Yeah, drawing around conclusion,

1779
01:45:40,040 --> 01:45:41,640
Speaker 1: I mean, and also, it's a fucking two and a

1780
01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:43,599
Speaker 1: half hour movie. The fact that we have to be

1781
01:45:43,640 --> 01:45:50,639
Speaker 1: the splitting hairs here is ridiculous, truly, So yeah, well

1782
01:45:50,680 --> 01:45:54,559
Speaker 1: that brings us to our nipple scale on which we

1783
01:45:54,680 --> 01:45:59,120
Speaker 1: rate the movie, examining it through an intersectional feminist lens

1784
01:45:59,200 --> 01:46:03,760
Speaker 1: on a scale of zero to five nipples, and I

1785
01:46:03,800 --> 01:46:06,439
Speaker 1: would say, I think this movie is ahead of its

1786
01:46:06,479 --> 01:46:10,439
Speaker 1: time in a lot of ways. I think that it's

1787
01:46:10,439 --> 01:46:14,520
Speaker 1: awesome that you have, you know, women in stem visibility

1788
01:46:15,200 --> 01:46:18,719
Speaker 1: because this is the type of representation where like little

1789
01:46:18,720 --> 01:46:22,480
Speaker 1: girls watching this movie who maybe hadn't seen themselves represented

1790
01:46:22,520 --> 01:46:27,000
Speaker 1: before in a like stem role can be like, wow,

1791
01:46:27,200 --> 01:46:30,439
Speaker 1: women can be scientists. I can be scientists, Like I

1792
01:46:30,439 --> 01:46:33,160
Speaker 1: can go and be a scientist. So um, I think

1793
01:46:33,240 --> 01:46:37,640
Speaker 1: that that's really important. And this was, you know, a

1794
01:46:37,680 --> 01:46:40,639
Speaker 1: big budget movie that was successful at the box office.

1795
01:46:40,680 --> 01:46:43,080
Speaker 1: A lot of people saw it, so that is a

1796
01:46:43,120 --> 01:46:46,200
Speaker 1: great thing. I also think it's cool that and this

1797
01:46:46,280 --> 01:46:49,400
Speaker 1: is something that also I brought up on our Arrival episode.

1798
01:46:49,720 --> 01:46:52,920
Speaker 1: But I love when a movie with a protagonist who

1799
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:58,719
Speaker 1: is a woman explores like deep philosophical existential questions because

1800
01:46:58,760 --> 01:47:03,800
Speaker 1: like philosoph fee has been a topic dominated by men,

1801
01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:07,680
Speaker 1: not because women are not capable of philosophical debate, and

1802
01:47:07,680 --> 01:47:09,479
Speaker 1: not because they haven't been doing the work. It just

1803
01:47:09,560 --> 01:47:13,080
Speaker 1: hasn't been preserved and uplifted in the same way exactly,

1804
01:47:13,240 --> 01:47:16,479
Speaker 1: And I also think I think that's like the the

1805
01:47:16,520 --> 01:47:20,519
Speaker 1: backside to the Bechtel test is that without women taught,

1806
01:47:20,720 --> 01:47:22,639
Speaker 1: when you have films where women are only talking about men,

1807
01:47:22,760 --> 01:47:26,800
Speaker 1: it means all the important philosophical like bomb dropping political

1808
01:47:27,640 --> 01:47:31,160
Speaker 1: conversations about the film are happening by the male characters.

1809
01:47:31,200 --> 01:47:34,000
Speaker 1: Like that I always think is the interesting flip side

1810
01:47:34,000 --> 01:47:36,680
Speaker 1: to the Bechtel test is like, for all the conversations

1811
01:47:36,720 --> 01:47:39,479
Speaker 1: women are having about only men, the male the male

1812
01:47:39,560 --> 01:47:42,800
Speaker 1: conversations can be about what is this film trying to say?

1813
01:47:42,880 --> 01:47:44,840
Speaker 1: And what is how is it trying to change the world.

1814
01:47:45,160 --> 01:47:50,080
Speaker 1: So for for her to participate in this discussion around

1815
01:47:50,160 --> 01:47:55,519
Speaker 1: like faith versus science, for you know, evidence versus like

1816
01:47:55,760 --> 01:47:58,360
Speaker 1: all you know, all that kind of stuff, I really

1817
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:01,320
Speaker 1: appreciated because like, for exact ample counter to this would

1818
01:48:01,360 --> 01:48:04,839
Speaker 1: be in our Da Vinci Code episode another Matreon episode.

1819
01:48:04,880 --> 01:48:08,080
Speaker 1: But um, you have these two men talking about like

1820
01:48:08,600 --> 01:48:11,599
Speaker 1: it's not philosophy, but they're talking about you know, history

1821
01:48:11,880 --> 01:48:15,559
Speaker 1: and like all all this like Christian mythology and stuff

1822
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:18,479
Speaker 1: like that, and then Audrey Tattoo is just like what,

1823
01:48:18,720 --> 01:48:23,040
Speaker 1: I don't like she doesn't get to contribute anything. So

1824
01:48:23,080 --> 01:48:28,280
Speaker 1: Audrey tattoo and the Da Vinci Code. I don't know

1825
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:30,160
Speaker 1: why that was the first example that came to my head,

1826
01:48:30,200 --> 01:48:34,160
Speaker 1: but yeah, so I appreciate that about this movie. The

1827
01:48:34,600 --> 01:48:38,320
Speaker 1: sexism that Ellie is on the receiving end of is

1828
01:48:38,360 --> 01:48:41,240
Speaker 1: definitely present. I think it's interesting the way that it

1829
01:48:41,320 --> 01:48:44,479
Speaker 1: was handled in that it's like very present, but like

1830
01:48:44,880 --> 01:48:47,960
Speaker 1: kind of subtle, or it's like not super explicit. And

1831
01:48:48,160 --> 01:48:50,680
Speaker 1: you know, the idea that like she is not believed

1832
01:48:51,240 --> 01:48:53,519
Speaker 1: that she is kind of she is like accused of

1833
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:59,479
Speaker 1: being delusional and hysterical, she is often overlooked or you know,

1834
01:48:59,520 --> 01:49:02,360
Speaker 1: men are take credit for her work. Uh are all

1835
01:49:02,400 --> 01:49:08,400
Speaker 1: like very real and present things that women experience. And um,

1836
01:49:08,400 --> 01:49:11,599
Speaker 1: I thought that was all interesting. But then it's got

1837
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:16,080
Speaker 1: its problems. You've got this wedged in romantic subplot that

1838
01:49:16,320 --> 01:49:19,400
Speaker 1: I can't think of a subplot, a romantic subplot that

1839
01:49:19,479 --> 01:49:25,439
Speaker 1: has ever been less necessary in a movie. And more obviously, Yeah,

1840
01:49:28,120 --> 01:49:34,280
Speaker 1: it just made me feel yucky. Um. The extreme whiteness

1841
01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:38,799
Speaker 1: of the film, the stre extreme again like US centric

1842
01:49:39,080 --> 01:49:47,400
Speaker 1: nature of the narrative. UM assists white, middle class, highly educated,

1843
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:53,400
Speaker 1: able bodied woman being representative all of humanity. So um,

1844
01:49:53,479 --> 01:49:55,919
Speaker 1: you know it's got some like of the time nineties

1845
01:49:56,000 --> 01:49:59,599
Speaker 1: era problems, but I also think it's ahead of its

1846
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:03,000
Speaker 1: time and other ways. So I would I want to

1847
01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:06,160
Speaker 1: give this like a three somewhere between, like a three

1848
01:50:06,280 --> 01:50:11,080
Speaker 1: three and a half range nipple wise, and I'll give

1849
01:50:11,439 --> 01:50:15,040
Speaker 1: one to Jodie Foster. I'll give one nipple to Jill Tarter,

1850
01:50:15,760 --> 01:50:21,120
Speaker 1: I will give one nipple to Andrew In, and I

1851
01:50:21,200 --> 01:50:25,360
Speaker 1: will give all throw in like a quarter nipple to

1852
01:50:25,560 --> 01:50:32,599
Speaker 1: the phrase okay to go, I'll meet you there. Three

1853
01:50:32,600 --> 01:50:36,400
Speaker 1: and a quarter sounds about right, Um, for all the

1854
01:50:36,400 --> 01:50:40,200
Speaker 1: reasons you described, this should very much be a global story,

1855
01:50:40,240 --> 01:50:43,600
Speaker 1: and I think that that's something that we us. Centrism

1856
01:50:43,760 --> 01:50:47,840
Speaker 1: in basically all of Western film is definitely a huge issue,

1857
01:50:47,880 --> 01:50:50,759
Speaker 1: but I feel like it crops up in this genre

1858
01:50:50,840 --> 01:50:54,880
Speaker 1: particularly all the time in a way that like I

1859
01:50:54,960 --> 01:50:58,960
Speaker 1: can't really think of a space movie that I've seen

1860
01:50:59,120 --> 01:51:01,240
Speaker 1: and I haven't seen that, Like, I can't really think

1861
01:51:01,240 --> 01:51:03,679
Speaker 1: of like a space movie that doesn't have this kind

1862
01:51:03,680 --> 01:51:07,320
Speaker 1: of underbrewing of American patriotism to it in a way

1863
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:11,519
Speaker 1: that is like definitely insidious and long overdue to be

1864
01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:15,760
Speaker 1: challenged in like a meaningful way, because it is like

1865
01:51:16,439 --> 01:51:19,160
Speaker 1: because I enjoyed this genre, but there always is kind

1866
01:51:19,200 --> 01:51:22,760
Speaker 1: of a flag wavy element to it that, um, this

1867
01:51:22,800 --> 01:51:26,720
Speaker 1: movie is not the most guilty of that's probably independently

1868
01:51:27,800 --> 01:51:32,959
Speaker 1: maybe Armageddon. Armageddon is pretty flag wavy too, like but

1869
01:51:32,960 --> 01:51:35,800
Speaker 1: but but it is like, you know, something we should

1870
01:51:35,880 --> 01:51:38,920
Speaker 1: keep talking about because it is like even in a

1871
01:51:39,000 --> 01:51:43,120
Speaker 1: movie like That's where it isn't the most forced on you,

1872
01:51:43,240 --> 01:51:46,439
Speaker 1: it is still very much forced on you. Um I

1873
01:51:46,840 --> 01:51:51,439
Speaker 1: I do I like how this movie, did you know,

1874
01:51:51,479 --> 01:51:54,880
Speaker 1: they did their homework in a way that most movies don't. Um.

1875
01:51:54,960 --> 01:52:00,160
Speaker 1: They spoke to female scientists who have experienced this you know,

1876
01:52:00,280 --> 01:52:03,680
Speaker 1: subcategory of sexism and kind of put it into the

1877
01:52:03,720 --> 01:52:06,160
Speaker 1: script in a in a way that flowed very naturally.

1878
01:52:06,200 --> 01:52:09,639
Speaker 1: I do wish that Jodie Foster's character had another woman

1879
01:52:09,680 --> 01:52:12,920
Speaker 1: to relate to about this um or speak too, and

1880
01:52:12,960 --> 01:52:14,920
Speaker 1: that would have been a way better use of our

1881
01:52:14,960 --> 01:52:19,200
Speaker 1: time than making us look at Matthew McConaughey's scarf that said,

1882
01:52:19,960 --> 01:52:23,920
Speaker 1: I really like, I don't know, I was very moved

1883
01:52:23,920 --> 01:52:27,479
Speaker 1: by like parts of this movie, and a lot of

1884
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:30,880
Speaker 1: that is just like Jodie Foster. But um, it does

1885
01:52:30,920 --> 01:52:35,360
Speaker 1: seem like this is a project that was driven by

1886
01:52:35,439 --> 01:52:40,080
Speaker 1: even even in a majority male creative team, that like

1887
01:52:40,360 --> 01:52:44,800
Speaker 1: the key creative decisions were pushed through by female producers,

1888
01:52:45,200 --> 01:52:49,800
Speaker 1: by Andre and by by Jill Tarter and and by

1889
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:53,640
Speaker 1: Jodie Foster. So yeah, you know, this should have been

1890
01:52:53,640 --> 01:52:57,080
Speaker 1: a more global movie. But I still think it holds

1891
01:52:57,160 --> 01:53:00,000
Speaker 1: up in more ways than I was expecting. So get

1892
01:53:00,040 --> 01:53:02,280
Speaker 1: at three in a quarter and yeah, I'll give one

1893
01:53:02,320 --> 01:53:06,360
Speaker 1: to Jody, one to Jill, one to Ann and I'll

1894
01:53:06,360 --> 01:53:14,439
Speaker 1: give the last quarter two the headphones that didn't. But

1895
01:53:14,600 --> 01:53:16,120
Speaker 1: I want to take a nipple. I want to give

1896
01:53:16,200 --> 01:53:20,400
Speaker 1: a nipple to Angela Bassett. So who's on the chopping block?

1897
01:53:20,680 --> 01:53:24,519
Speaker 1: I'm just going to redistribute it equally. So, um, that's good.

1898
01:53:24,560 --> 01:53:27,400
Speaker 1: That's good. You're gonna you're gonna split a number that

1899
01:53:27,479 --> 01:53:32,840
Speaker 1: cannot be split into a transcendental pie. Honestly, three in

1900
01:53:32,880 --> 01:53:35,720
Speaker 1: a quarter is so close to pie. I'm gonna give

1901
01:53:35,720 --> 01:53:43,240
Speaker 1: it pineapples. That's infinite nipples, pineapples, pineapples, and um, I'm

1902
01:53:43,280 --> 01:53:46,720
Speaker 1: gonna all distribute them evenly between the people. I said,

1903
01:53:46,760 --> 01:53:52,720
Speaker 1: plus Angela Bassett pineapple? Um, what about you, Kelly, Well, yeah,

1904
01:53:52,800 --> 01:53:56,400
Speaker 1: I'm really into this pineapple. I there is so much.

1905
01:53:57,200 --> 01:54:00,200
Speaker 1: I do have a really interesting bookend with this film,

1906
01:54:00,200 --> 01:54:03,840
Speaker 1: as I've watched it as a young um, a young girl,

1907
01:54:03,960 --> 01:54:06,840
Speaker 1: someone who has treated like a girl with as to

1908
01:54:06,880 --> 01:54:09,640
Speaker 1: bring it back to my many male cousins and in

1909
01:54:09,680 --> 01:54:12,640
Speaker 1: the world I grew up in, I will say, for

1910
01:54:12,680 --> 01:54:17,040
Speaker 1: all of its problems and it's um America centrism, which

1911
01:54:17,280 --> 01:54:21,840
Speaker 1: if I can provide an alternate, uh, Danny Boyle's Sunshine

1912
01:54:21,960 --> 01:54:23,439
Speaker 1: is a really good example of I think of an

1913
01:54:23,439 --> 01:54:27,320
Speaker 1: American made film that doesn't have that sort of patriotism. Uh.

1914
01:54:27,680 --> 01:54:31,519
Speaker 1: Tarkovsky's Solaris. Solaris is one of the most beautiful sci

1915
01:54:31,600 --> 01:54:34,920
Speaker 1: fi films ever made that deals with, like, you know,

1916
01:54:35,000 --> 01:54:37,680
Speaker 1: going up into space on a mission, a suicidal mission

1917
01:54:37,720 --> 01:54:41,280
Speaker 1: of hope for humanity sort of thing. But I will say,

1918
01:54:41,320 --> 01:54:44,280
Speaker 1: for all of its problems and its lack of representation,

1919
01:54:44,480 --> 01:54:49,240
Speaker 1: its lack of representing humanity and all of it, I

1920
01:54:49,280 --> 01:54:52,920
Speaker 1: can't disregard how this movie made me feel as a

1921
01:54:52,960 --> 01:54:58,440
Speaker 1: young girl, and now I cannot disregard how impactful it

1922
01:54:58,600 --> 01:55:01,880
Speaker 1: was and how it felt. Watch that moment where she's

1923
01:55:02,920 --> 01:55:05,360
Speaker 1: running and the science is happening and she's spitting out

1924
01:55:05,440 --> 01:55:08,760
Speaker 1: all these crazy things like it's those moments where you

1925
01:55:08,840 --> 01:55:13,360
Speaker 1: don't quite register or or you've registered the sexism You've

1926
01:55:13,400 --> 01:55:16,120
Speaker 1: experienced your whole life on such a molecular level that

1927
01:55:16,200 --> 01:55:19,040
Speaker 1: when it's being encountered with such a brazen expression of

1928
01:55:19,040 --> 01:55:22,120
Speaker 1: a woman following her passion in an area dominated by men,

1929
01:55:22,720 --> 01:55:25,240
Speaker 1: you feel like bubbling up from your stomach and your

1930
01:55:25,280 --> 01:55:28,040
Speaker 1: gut being like like, oh my gosh, I've never how

1931
01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:31,320
Speaker 1: cool is it that she's racing through here and talking

1932
01:55:31,320 --> 01:55:34,840
Speaker 1: on the walkies. So I'm going to give it like

1933
01:55:34,880 --> 01:55:38,560
Speaker 1: a really, I gotta give all four nipples to Jodie Foster,

1934
01:55:39,800 --> 01:55:44,640
Speaker 1: uh and say her and mostly Jodie Foster's eyes like

1935
01:55:44,760 --> 01:55:50,120
Speaker 1: just those bigwelling, truthful pools of truth looking into the stars,

1936
01:55:50,360 --> 01:55:54,320
Speaker 1: Like I that's the film for me, is going the

1937
01:55:54,360 --> 01:55:57,040
Speaker 1: rest of it, All the problems of it sort of

1938
01:55:57,640 --> 01:56:00,040
Speaker 1: I think are worthy of discussion, which we have of

1939
01:56:00,400 --> 01:56:04,920
Speaker 1: you know, we've discussed it. But what you cannot with

1940
01:56:04,960 --> 01:56:07,760
Speaker 1: all the problems and the scarves and the McConaughey, even

1941
01:56:07,760 --> 01:56:11,600
Speaker 1: though he tries to make the scenes about himself, nothing

1942
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:14,960
Speaker 1: nothing comes close to Jodie Foster's eyes looking at stars.

1943
01:56:15,240 --> 01:56:18,000
Speaker 1: There's just nothing. And the way I felt when I

1944
01:56:18,040 --> 01:56:20,440
Speaker 1: was twelve watching this film or thirteen or where however

1945
01:56:20,480 --> 01:56:26,680
Speaker 1: old I was versus now is very similar. So for nipples,

1946
01:56:26,680 --> 01:56:30,160
Speaker 1: for Jodie Foster's eyes, Yeah, she has more chemistry with

1947
01:56:30,360 --> 01:56:34,320
Speaker 1: the the sky and the cosmos that she's looking at

1948
01:56:34,440 --> 01:56:38,280
Speaker 1: than she does with Matthew McConaughey. And it's so true

1949
01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:41,520
Speaker 1: and how beautiful is that? Like, think about how easy

1950
01:56:41,560 --> 01:56:44,120
Speaker 1: it would have been to make this character male, and

1951
01:56:44,200 --> 01:56:47,360
Speaker 1: to say, in terms of representation of a woman just

1952
01:56:47,440 --> 01:56:50,920
Speaker 1: following her dreams and having an interest for her life

1953
01:56:50,960 --> 01:56:54,120
Speaker 1: and her for her heart, that is that doesn't involve

1954
01:56:54,160 --> 01:56:56,360
Speaker 1: a male, even though Mathe McConaughey is there. It's like

1955
01:56:56,400 --> 01:56:58,960
Speaker 1: her her love interest is the star's end of story.

1956
01:56:59,840 --> 01:57:02,560
Speaker 1: We didn't need to add anyone else. Well, Kelly, thank

1957
01:57:02,600 --> 01:57:05,320
Speaker 1: you so much for for being here, for joining us.

1958
01:57:05,400 --> 01:57:08,400
Speaker 1: I can't believe we recorded for eighteen hours with you.

1959
01:57:08,480 --> 01:57:12,040
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, creating. I know, it's like what happened

1960
01:57:12,040 --> 01:57:14,600
Speaker 1: in Static. We don't know, okay to go, that's yeah,

1961
01:57:14,760 --> 01:57:17,280
Speaker 1: I did. I had to edit out a lot, so yeah,

1962
01:57:17,360 --> 01:57:20,040
Speaker 1: this is like a two hour episode that originally was

1963
01:57:20,120 --> 01:57:23,000
Speaker 1: eighteen hours. Thank you for being here. What tell us

1964
01:57:23,040 --> 01:57:26,120
Speaker 1: where we can find you on social media anything you'd

1965
01:57:26,120 --> 01:57:30,200
Speaker 1: like to plug, et cetera. Oh man, uh, well, on

1966
01:57:30,240 --> 01:57:35,040
Speaker 1: social media, I'm on Instagram at Kelly and Phyllis. That's

1967
01:57:35,080 --> 01:57:38,200
Speaker 1: pretty much the only I'm on Twitter too, but I'm

1968
01:57:38,200 --> 01:57:42,040
Speaker 1: thinking of leaving shortly, so probably for the best, Yeah,

1969
01:57:42,160 --> 01:57:45,120
Speaker 1: probably the best. I don't use it really, but so

1970
01:57:45,320 --> 01:57:47,600
Speaker 1: find on Instagram. I post a lot of photos of

1971
01:57:47,680 --> 01:57:50,760
Speaker 1: trees and nature's I'm just like got an Instagram account

1972
01:57:50,800 --> 01:57:54,360
Speaker 1: for the Terrence Malick fans out there. I just like nature. Um.

1973
01:57:54,520 --> 01:57:56,360
Speaker 1: I have a film coming out or no, that is

1974
01:57:56,400 --> 01:57:59,560
Speaker 1: out already on v o D anywhere you rent movies

1975
01:57:59,600 --> 01:58:04,120
Speaker 1: called Gore Daddy, which is about a woman brazenly trying

1976
01:58:04,160 --> 01:58:07,720
Speaker 1: to make art and surrounded by patriarchy and men and

1977
01:58:07,840 --> 01:58:10,040
Speaker 1: men trying to control her voice and her trying to

1978
01:58:10,040 --> 01:58:13,560
Speaker 1: find it. So I will say that this film very

1979
01:58:13,640 --> 01:58:16,800
Speaker 1: much is was on the origin story of the film

1980
01:58:16,800 --> 01:58:19,640
Speaker 1: that I of this film, Sugar Daddy. So that's that's

1981
01:58:19,640 --> 01:58:22,040
Speaker 1: what I want to plug, because it's not set in space.

1982
01:58:22,120 --> 01:58:26,760
Speaker 1: It's setting a grimy apartment in Toronto. But is that

1983
01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:29,360
Speaker 1: not space? Like, let's be let's be real if anything

1984
01:58:29,400 --> 01:58:34,440
Speaker 1: could be space. Thank you so much for being with us, Kelly,

1985
01:58:34,440 --> 01:58:36,560
Speaker 1: we really appreciate it and thank you for bringing us

1986
01:58:36,560 --> 01:58:38,600
Speaker 1: this movie. It was like, it was such a fun

1987
01:58:38,680 --> 01:58:40,720
Speaker 1: there's so much to talk about. It's been a it's

1988
01:58:40,720 --> 01:58:43,520
Speaker 1: been a long requested movie. So finally I'm glad we

1989
01:58:43,600 --> 01:58:46,360
Speaker 1: finally got to do it. Oh man, that's so happy,

1990
01:58:46,400 --> 01:58:49,640
Speaker 1: And thank you for like what a speaking of dreams?

1991
01:58:49,640 --> 01:58:51,240
Speaker 1: Like how fun? Is it? Just a chat for like

1992
01:58:51,560 --> 01:58:56,000
Speaker 1: two hours, two plus hours, eighteen hours? Like, man, people

1993
01:58:56,080 --> 01:59:00,080
Speaker 1: who wanted your Your podcast is so valuable and on

1994
01:59:00,200 --> 01:59:02,400
Speaker 1: and it speaks to a type of discussion that I

1995
01:59:02,440 --> 01:59:04,960
Speaker 1: could have at all times. So I'm happy to do

1996
01:59:05,000 --> 01:59:12,000
Speaker 1: it sort of mildly professionally with you guys. Come back anytime. Um.

1997
01:59:12,080 --> 01:59:14,920
Speaker 1: And then you can follow us on Twitter and Instagram

1998
01:59:14,960 --> 01:59:19,960
Speaker 1: at Bechtel Cast and subscribe to our Matreon where we

1999
01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:23,360
Speaker 1: have covered Arrival and Da Vinci Code and other movies

2000
01:59:23,840 --> 01:59:27,760
Speaker 1: but I didn't reference on today's episode. Uh that's five

2001
01:59:27,760 --> 01:59:30,640
Speaker 1: dollars a month. It gets you access to two bonus

2002
01:59:30,640 --> 01:59:34,920
Speaker 1: episodes plus the entire back catalog, and that's at Patreon

2003
01:59:35,000 --> 01:59:38,680
Speaker 1: dot com, slash becktel Cast, and you can get our

2004
01:59:38,760 --> 01:59:42,400
Speaker 1: merch at t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast

2005
01:59:42,520 --> 01:59:48,800
Speaker 1: for all your various items with our Stefan Aney. We

2006
01:59:48,840 --> 01:59:52,960
Speaker 1: don't have a space suit yet yet, but we'll see

2007
01:59:53,240 --> 02:00:02,360
Speaker 1: or add or a headband. No flimsy radio shack. F Oh,

2008
02:00:02,400 --> 02:00:06,160
Speaker 1: that's so funny. That's the real merge from that film. Yeah,

2009
02:00:06,200 --> 02:00:09,960
Speaker 1: for sure, that was the merche opportunity um and I

2010
02:00:10,000 --> 02:00:13,840
Speaker 1: think otherwise, Uh, we're okay to go, okay, we're okay

2011
02:00:13,840 --> 02:00:15,280
Speaker 1: to go. Bye bye, bye bye.