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Speaker 1: Hey him, Welcome to short stuff Josh, Chuck, Jerry sitting

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Speaker 1: in for Dave. And this makes this an official short stuff.

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Speaker 1: We have the quorum. Let's go.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Do you recognize this article?

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Speaker 1: No? Who wrote it? Did I write? Did you write?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: You wrote it?

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Speaker 1: Did I really?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 1: Huh wow? I was like, this is pretty good.

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Speaker 2: I took your name off of it because I was

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Speaker 2: hoping you wouldn't remember this one.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, this is not a bad article at all.

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Speaker 1: That's great. Thank you for that, because uh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: like this. I was like, I like the cut of

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Speaker 1: this writer's Jim. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So this is from the old house stuffworks dot com

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Speaker 3: days and this is about the And I was surprised

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Speaker 3: we hadn't done a shorty on this.

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Speaker 2: I was.

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Speaker 3: I was like, surely we have the story of Nero

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Speaker 3: fiddling while Rome burned. And when I looked it up,

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Speaker 3: there you were, buddy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I actually searched for an episode too, because it

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Speaker 1: just sounds like we've definitely talked about it at some point,

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Speaker 1: but it just had to have been a part of

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Speaker 1: a larger episode. So let's dig in because I feel

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Speaker 1: like everybody, thanks to my article, has heard that Nero

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Speaker 1: fiddled while Rome burned, and it turns out that that

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Speaker 1: is probably a piece of ancient propaganda that survived almost

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Speaker 1: two thousand years.

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Speaker 3: At this point, I feel like you have a little

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Speaker 3: extra wind beneath your wings.

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Speaker 2: Nowner, you know this is yours.

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Speaker 1: I've never felt more alive than i'd do right now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're talking obviously about the Great Fire of Rome.

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Speaker 3: For six days and seven nights, that's when Rome saw

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Speaker 3: and this is eight sixty four, I saw seventy percent

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Speaker 3: of its city destroyed and only four of its fourteen

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Speaker 3: districts intact afterward.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And the Roman historian Tacitus wrote that out of the

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Speaker 3: about half the people of the million people, which would

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Speaker 3: be by my count, five hundred thousand were rendered without

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Speaker 3: a home because of this great fire.

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Speaker 1: I knew that. So this being a massive tragedy which

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Speaker 1: two thousand years, I feel like we can add a

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Speaker 1: joker to you at this point, but sure that it

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Speaker 1: was such a huge tragedy and it was just so

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Speaker 1: out of nowhere. And of course people just have an

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Speaker 1: innate need to blame, to find cause, assign blame. People

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Speaker 1: love doing that even back in the day. And also

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Speaker 1: people back in the day were as susceptible to rumors

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Speaker 1: and urban legends as we are today, and those things

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Speaker 1: started up really quickly. One of the main ones was

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Speaker 1: that somehow the government was involved in this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, Like, hey, we saw people, we saw

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Speaker 3: men fanning the flames, and when confronted, they said that

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Speaker 3: they were under orders to do so, or you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe somebody actually started this fire on purpose. In Nero,

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Speaker 3: the Emperor Nero was kind of the prime suspect.

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Speaker 1: It seems like, yeah, he ordered it, that he set

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Speaker 1: the fire, or some people. He had to rebuild Rome,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you had to rebuild it after so many

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Speaker 1: of the districts were just totally leveled, and he was like,

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Speaker 1: let's build this in I don't know, Nero style, which

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Speaker 1: is surprisingly close to the craftsman style of the nineteen twenties.

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Speaker 2: Oh really no. I was like, that's very surprising. But

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Speaker 2: they're gonna say art Deco.

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Speaker 1: I was going to at first, and I was like, not,

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Speaker 1: let me come up with something else, right, I should

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Speaker 1: have just said art Deco would have gotten better. Laugh.

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Speaker 1: But he rebuilt it in a manner that he liked.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he was in charge at the time. And

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Speaker 1: people were like, that's why Rome burnt, because this guy

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Speaker 1: wanted to rebuild it more in his image.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: So that rumor was going around, and through that rumor, okay,

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Speaker 3: came the story that while the Great Fire was burning,

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Speaker 3: Nero played his fiddle and just sort of watched it happen.

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Speaker 2: Should we take a break right there?

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Speaker 1: We should, because I mean, what's coming up next is

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Speaker 1: just eyepopping.

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Speaker 3: That's right, more goodness from Josh Clark of fifteen years

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Speaker 3: ago right after this.

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Speaker 1: So Nero's like, wait a minute, wait, I wasn't fiddling.

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Speaker 1: We'll find out why. That's definitive in a second. Why

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Speaker 1: are you blaming me? And they're like, we're just blaming you.

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Speaker 1: You got to accept that. He's like, I don't. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to find a scapegoat myself. I'll trot them out

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Speaker 1: publicly and then you can just stop blaming me. And

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Speaker 1: he looked around. He's like, these Christians are new, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to persecute them. And this actually became the first

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Speaker 1: persecution of Christians in history. This was sixty four CE,

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Speaker 1: and I mean Christianity was so new that there was

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Speaker 1: still original apostles around who ended up being executed in

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Speaker 1: this persecution.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Paul, who was the other one.

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Speaker 1: Paul and Peter. Paul was beheaded and Peter was crucified

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Speaker 1: upside down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So like torturous, brutal executions are happening because Nero

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Speaker 3: is looking for a scapegoat because he was blamed for

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Speaker 3: this fire. You know, when you said before we're going

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Speaker 3: to talk about why it's definitive that he definitely didn't fiddle,

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Speaker 3: it's because there was no fiddle at the time. Music

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Speaker 3: historians basically agreed that the vile class of instruments, which

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Speaker 3: is like a violin, didn't come around to the eleventh century,

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Speaker 3: so about fifteen hundred years later, So there literally were

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Speaker 3: no fiddles at the time.

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Speaker 1: No, but he did play something called the scythara, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is like a laptop harp. The top is like

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Speaker 1: for strumming, the bottom is for plucking. You've probably seen

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Speaker 1: something like it before. But he was really into it,

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Speaker 1: so much so that when Rome conquered some new land,

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Speaker 1: he would schedule music festivals in these new lands, and

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Speaker 1: he would schedule them at times that he could go

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Speaker 1: and compete. He would compete, and the Senate was not

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Speaker 1: happy about this. They're like, you're competing against commoners, you're

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Speaker 1: the emperor. And apparently Nero actually was more like than

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Speaker 1: we think he was today, especially among the lower classes

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Speaker 1: of Rome, because he didn't behave nearly as superior toward

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Speaker 1: them as other elites in Rome had and did.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, well, you know one thing he definitely did

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Speaker 3: was in the immediate aftermath of the fire, he did

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Speaker 3: a lot. Actually, he took a lot of measures to

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Speaker 3: provide for the citizenry. He was at his place in

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Speaker 3: Antium on the outskirts of Rome when it broke out.

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Speaker 3: He immediately rushed back to the fire. Tacitus, that historian

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Speaker 3: that I mentioned, was a boy at the time during

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Speaker 3: the blaze, and he provided accounts of like hey, Nero

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Speaker 3: helped coordinate the firefighting himself on the first night. He

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Speaker 3: opened up public buildings for housing, He opened up his

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Speaker 3: own gardens for temporary shelter. Yeah, he imported grain from

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Speaker 3: other cities close by that I guess he sold, but

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Speaker 3: sold like super cheap.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he still sold it, though I thought that was

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Speaker 1: a little hinky, Yeah for sure. But yeah, so he

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Speaker 1: was a lot of the residents of Rome liked him,

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Speaker 1: and Tacitus tells us like he did actually swing into action,

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Speaker 1: and yet he still managed to bear the blame throughout this,

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Speaker 1: like his persecution of Christians did not work. And apparently,

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Speaker 1: like we said, the fiddling thing was not It's not

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Speaker 1: possible that he fiddled. It is possible he was playing

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Speaker 1: the sthara, but because of his responsiveness, it seems like

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Speaker 1: that's probably not the case. So because this was probably

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Speaker 1: largely created by the Senate, like the I think they

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Speaker 1: were working hard to keep the blame on Nero.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: There's a nineteen forties historian from the University of North

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Speaker 1: Carolina named Mary Francis Giles Go tar heels, Yeah, and yes,

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Speaker 1: if you're a tar heel, you can be proud of

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Speaker 1: Mary Francis Gilds because she was one of those rare

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Speaker 1: people who managed to see something that everybody knows in

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Speaker 1: a different light, at a different angle. And she's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, fiddling doesn't just mean playing a violin. It

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Speaker 1: can also mean just kind of doing something like with

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Speaker 1: your fingers, like ineffectually, like you're wasting time and energy,

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Speaker 1: you're just fiddling around. Maybe that's what they originally meant.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why I never thought of that.

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Speaker 1: I definitely hadn't either. Even after writing this, it didn't

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Speaker 1: even look familiar.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she was like, you know, maybe he's just fiddling,

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Speaker 3: as in, like doing something sort of useless. At the time,

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Speaker 3: it sounds like that didn't happen either, But yeah, maybe

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Speaker 3: they viewed it inadequate at the time, like what he

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Speaker 3: was doing. Maybe the truth wasn't getting around that he

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Speaker 3: was actually kind of helping, right.

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Speaker 1: And that actually fits with the idea that this was

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Speaker 1: propaganda that the Senate was basically saying Nero's responses were

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Speaker 1: not nearly enough. He was just basically messing around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: But you know, if you're like, man Nero got a

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Speaker 3: bad rap, there's a brilliant writer who took that into consideration.

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Speaker 3: But probably I don't know, fifteen years ago ish and said, hey,

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Speaker 3: don't feel so bad for Nero because Nero ascended to

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Speaker 3: the throne because his mom killed his uncle, and then

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Speaker 3: Nero had his mom killed. Yeah, and then of course

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Speaker 3: the persecution of the Christians, you know, hanging people by

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Speaker 3: their feet and decapitating them, Like, don't feel bad for

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Speaker 3: this guy.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: There was also dumb Nascio Abestius, which is sicking wild

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Speaker 1: animals on people for executions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no good.

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Speaker 1: So Nero essentially was on his heels after that great fire. Again, remember,

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Speaker 1: the Senate didn't like him, like him that much. I

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Speaker 1: can't stress that enough. And so the army, which he

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Speaker 1: had been on really good terms with for a while,

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Speaker 1: was like, we're not going to work for you any longer.

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Speaker 1: So there's a potential coup brewing. The Senate declared him

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Speaker 1: a public enemy, which is not something you want levied

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Speaker 1: against you as an emperor. It meant that he was

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Speaker 1: probably going to be executed. So he pushed a dagger

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Speaker 1: into his throat about four years after the fire came and.

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Speaker 2: Went, yeah, he said, I sense a cupbrew. That was it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you talk like that.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm watching the show right now and it's.

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Speaker 2: Oh, Star City, have you heard of this?

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Speaker 3: Star City is a show that is I can't remember

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Speaker 3: the name of the first show, but there was a

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Speaker 3: show about the Space Race, and there was an American

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Speaker 3: version for All Mankind is what that was called from

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Speaker 3: the American perspective, and Star City is the Space Race

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Speaker 3: from the Soviet perspective.

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Speaker 2: And it's really good. I think you would like it.

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Speaker 3: But they cast all British actors and are doing British

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Speaker 3: accents sort of like they used to just do for

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Speaker 3: all movies back in the day. And it's just I

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Speaker 3: got to wrap my head around every single episode when

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Speaker 3: all these Brits are talking. I try to hear it

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Speaker 3: in like with a Russian accent in my head, and

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Speaker 3: it just kind of drives me nuts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I can get used to that kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's also something that if you once

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Speaker 1: you focus in on it, you just can't get past.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why in twenty twenty six they just

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Speaker 3: didn't say, like, you know, do a Russian accent.

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Speaker 1: I know it's appropriations or Russians. It's very strange, but

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Speaker 1: I guess that's it for the short Stuff, right, That's right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well everybody. Short Stuff is out.

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Speaker 3: Stuff you should know is a production of Iheartrating.

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Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.