Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Robert and Joe here. Today we've got
Speaker 1: something a little bit different to share with you. It
Speaker 1: is a new season of the Smart Talks with IBM
Speaker 1: podcast series.
Speaker 2: Today we are witnessed to one of those rare moments
Speaker 2: in history, the rise of an innovative technology with the
Speaker 2: potential to radically transform business and society forever. The technology,
Speaker 2: of course, is artificial intelligence, and it's the central focus
Speaker 2: for this new season of Smart Talks with IBM.
Speaker 1: Join hosts from your favorite Pushkin podcasts as they talk
Speaker 1: with industry experts and leaders to explore how businesses can
Speaker 1: integrate AI into their workflows and help drive real change
Speaker 1: in this new era of AI. And of course, host
Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell will be there to guide you through the
Speaker 1: season and throw in his two cents as well.
Speaker 2: Look out for new episodes of Smart Talks with IBM
Speaker 2: every other week on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts, and learn more at IBM
Speaker 2: dot com slash smart talks.
Speaker 3: Hello. Hello, Welcome to Smart Talk with IBM, a podcast
Speaker 3: from Pushkin Industries, iHeartRadio and IBM. I'm Malcolm Glabwell. This
Speaker 3: season we're diving back into the world of artificial intelligence,
Speaker 3: but with a focus on the powerful concept of open
Speaker 3: its possibilities, implications, and misconceptions. We'll look at openness from
Speaker 3: a variety of angles and explore how the concept is
Speaker 3: already reshaping industries, ways of doing business, and our very
Speaker 3: notion of what's possible. On today's episode, doctor Lori Santos
Speaker 3: sat down with two women at the forefront of AI
Speaker 3: in education. Justina Nixon Saniel is Vice President and Chief
Speaker 3: Impact Officer of IBM Corporate Social Responsibility, and April Dawson
Speaker 3: is an Associate Dean of Technology and Innovation and Professor
Speaker 3: of Law at North Carolina Central University School of Law. Together,
Speaker 3: they explore the transformative impact of AI on education and
Speaker 3: the workforce. As technology rapidly evolves, industries are being reshaped
Speaker 3: and the demand for new skills is at an all
Speaker 3: time high. This is opening up opportunities for diverse talent,
Speaker 3: enabling individuals from various backgrounds to excel in roles they
Speaker 3: might not have previously considered. They also address the ethical
Speaker 3: considerations of AI, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a human
Speaker 3: centered approach, whether you're a teacher or a student or
Speaker 3: someone interested in the future of work, It's essential to
Speaker 3: embrace the role of AI in the education landscape. AI
Speaker 3: is not only changing the way we work, but also
Speaker 3: how we learn, making education more accessible, personalized, and aligned
Speaker 3: with the demands of the modern job market.
Speaker 4: Justin Andennepel, so great to meet both of you. I'm
Speaker 4: so excited for this conversation. Thank you for having me,
Speaker 4: and thank you for.
Speaker 5: Having me Justina.
Speaker 4: To start, could you share some insights on your journey
Speaker 4: to becoming IBM's Chief Impact Officer and how your background
Speaker 4: in engineering shapes your approach to corporate social responsibility.
Speaker 5: So I've had an interest in journey. I'm an immigrant.
Speaker 5: I was one of the only black women who graduated
Speaker 5: from my school's mechanical engineering program many many years ago.
Speaker 5: I started my engineering career at a nuclear facility that's
Speaker 5: around forty five miles outside of Buffalo, New York, and
Speaker 5: eventually worked for one of the largest telecommunications companies in
Speaker 5: the world in engineering, marketing, and eventually in corporate social responsibility.
Speaker 5: I was hired to lead the organization away from traditional
Speaker 5: philanthropy to creating platforms and solutions that leveraged four G
Speaker 5: and five g technologies to positively impact disadvantaged communities, and
Speaker 5: that is what has led me to the work that
Speaker 5: I do at IBM today. I have the honor of
Speaker 5: being the company's first Chief Impact Officer, and is such
Speaker 5: a privilege and a responsibility to be at IBM, which
Speaker 5: has such a huge history in sustainability, in social and
Speaker 5: in the ethical space as well. When I consider how
Speaker 5: my background in engineering ties into the work that I do,
Speaker 5: I actually think engineers are very skilled at analyzing data
Speaker 5: and at innovative problem solving. The other thing where there's
Speaker 5: a lot of alignment with my engineering background is really
Speaker 5: around how do I think about using technology to solve
Speaker 5: some of the biggest issues that we have in society.
Speaker 5: And I get very excited about innovating and creating and
Speaker 5: leveraging technologies like AI and hybrid cloud to really bring
Speaker 5: those into the work that we do and to solve
Speaker 5: some of those big challenges that we have in society
Speaker 5: today around sustainability and education.
Speaker 4: That's fabulous, April, tell me about your path to becoming
Speaker 4: Associate Dean of Technology and Innovation as well as a
Speaker 4: professor in law.
Speaker 6: So I am a child of an educator, actually educators
Speaker 6: Both my parents are educators. I went to high school
Speaker 6: where my mom taught, and it was in the eighties
Speaker 6: and it was during that time period when teachers were
Speaker 6: given Apple computers, so they were brand new. My mom
Speaker 6: brought one home. I started playing with it. Then I
Speaker 6: just kind of fell in love with the technology. I
Speaker 6: received my undergraduate degree in computer science because of that
Speaker 6: early exposure. I went to Bennett College here in Greensboro,
Speaker 6: North Carolina. It's an HBCU, a historically black college and university.
Speaker 6: I was a programmer after graduating from Bennett, and I've
Speaker 6: always loved technology, but I also had a love for
Speaker 6: the law. So after being a programmer for a couple
Speaker 6: of years, I decided to go to law school. And
Speaker 6: even as a lawyer, I leveraged technology in my private practice.
Speaker 6: When I decided to begin teaching almost twenty years ago,
Speaker 6: I would ask myself, how could I leverage a technology
Speaker 6: to enhance my teaching to help the students better understand
Speaker 6: the material. And so when our dean at the time,
Speaker 6: Brownie Lewis, when she was able to facilitate a five
Speaker 6: million dollar grant to North Carolina Central University School of Law,
Speaker 6: we created the Technology Law and Policy Center, and she
Speaker 6: asked me if I would be interested in serving as
Speaker 6: the inaugural Associate Dean of Technology and Innovation. So suffice
Speaker 6: it to say, I'm in my dream job. I'm able
Speaker 6: to combine my love of technology, my love of law,
Speaker 6: my love of education, and so it's really an exciting
Speaker 6: time to be in a position like I have.
Speaker 4: I love that, April, what inspired you to integrate AI
Speaker 4: and technology into your law curriculum.
Speaker 6: It's interesting, As I mentioned before, I've always used it
Speaker 6: personally as an educator, but the thought of teaching a
Speaker 6: class that really kind of focused on technology and the
Speaker 6: legal implications of that really occurred because Ray Thomas, who
Speaker 6: was an IP lawyer and worked at IBM at the
Speaker 6: time in twenty twenty so around the pandemic, he encouraged
Speaker 6: us to take advantage of the IBM Skills Build training program,
Speaker 6: the Train the Trainer program. So really, not until that
Speaker 6: time period did I even really even think about teaching
Speaker 6: a tech focused legal class. And during that time period,
Speaker 6: a couple of my other colleagues and I we did
Speaker 6: the Train the Trainer blockchain course. I did the data
Speaker 6: science course, and then that next summer we team taught
Speaker 6: the Blockchain for Lawyer's class, which we designed, and then
Speaker 6: I taught a Data Science for Lawyers class, and so
Speaker 6: that was, you know, really kind of the first iteration
Speaker 6: of us really being intentional about teaching technology and law.
Speaker 6: And then one of my other colleagues, doctor Savon Da Grady,
Speaker 6: she is a professor at the School of Library and
Speaker 6: Information Sciences here at NCCU. She reached out to me
Speaker 6: and said, would you be interesting in teaching a joint
Speaker 6: AI and the law class that would include her Masters
Speaker 6: of Information Science students and my law students. So it's
Speaker 6: a wonderful interdisciplinary class where you have master's students and
Speaker 6: law students and we talk about the foundations of AI,
Speaker 6: we talk about the legal implications of policy implications. And
Speaker 6: so really this kind of all started because of the
Speaker 6: resources that IBM have made available to NCCU.
Speaker 4: That's so cool, and that class sounds amazing. I wish
Speaker 4: I could like drop out of being a professor I
Speaker 4: done this class. This sounds awesome. So this is a
Speaker 4: question for both of you. In this age of AI
Speaker 4: and open technology, does the role of education change? Are
Speaker 4: we kind of at a different spot with what education
Speaker 4: should be doing now.
Speaker 5: When I look at the role of education today from
Speaker 5: the corporate point of view, I think it does change.
Speaker 5: I was having a discussion earlier today with some members
Speaker 5: of my team, and we were discussing early professional hires,
Speaker 5: so people would want to hire right out of college,
Speaker 5: and one of the first things that I shared was
Speaker 5: some of the tasks that they would have done previously
Speaker 5: will be automated. We will be using AI for those
Speaker 5: basic tasks that in the past we would have hired
Speaker 5: an intern or a recent college graduate to do. And
Speaker 5: it's so critical now that we look at higher level
Speaker 5: types of tasks that we will need college graduates to do.
Speaker 5: And I can foresee in the future hiring someone from
Speaker 5: college who does not have at least a basic understanding
Speaker 5: of AI. There will be some roles where they will
Speaker 5: have to have an advanced understanding, especially if they're in
Speaker 5: an engineering role or computer science role, but across the
Speaker 5: board they will need to understand AI. So, when I
Speaker 5: think about the way that education is changing, whether you're
Speaker 5: a college student, whether you're an adult professional, you will
Speaker 5: need to be a lifelong learner and you will need
Speaker 5: to understand how to continuously upskill and reskill yourself to
Speaker 5: be able to understand technologies like AI because of the
Speaker 5: rapid acceleration of these types of technologies, and I think
Speaker 5: that's very important. I think everyone has to be prepared,
Speaker 5: if they're not doing it today, to upskill and reskill themselves.
Speaker 5: And I can't foresee any roles in the future where
Speaker 5: candidates will not need to have a very basic understanding
Speaker 5: of AI or even advanced understanding of AI.
Speaker 4: That's great, April. Let me ask you a slightly different
Speaker 4: version of the question, what is the significance of AI
Speaker 4: for students and young professionals today?
Speaker 6: When we think about the disruption that JENAI especially has
Speaker 6: caused within the legal profession, students have to be more
Speaker 6: adept when it comes to feeling comfortable, being uncomfortable, and
Speaker 6: learning something new. The other thing that I would just
Speaker 6: kind of emphasize from an educational standpoint is this also
Speaker 6: means that educators have to approach teaching differently. You know,
Speaker 6: I've been teaching for going on twenty years and things
Speaker 6: are kind of being turned on their heads somewhat right,
Speaker 6: and I have had to upskill and reskill. We can't
Speaker 6: teach that what we don't know, we can't monitor that
Speaker 6: what we don't know. Just as the students have to
Speaker 6: understand generative AI, the educators have to understand it as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is something I've felt in the classroom myself
Speaker 4: as a psychology professor, right, is that I'm realizing how
Speaker 4: much I need to kind of go back to school
Speaker 4: and learn about all these AI tools, not just so
Speaker 4: that I can teach it, but just so I can
Speaker 4: understand how my students are using these things, right, but
Speaker 4: also to figure out how I can enhance the educational
Speaker 4: experience of my own students in psychology right by giving
Speaker 4: them access to these tools. And so, yeah, I'm curious
Speaker 4: in your experience, how does AI actually enhance the educationally
Speaker 4: experience for your law students. And I'm curious if you
Speaker 4: could give an example of the type of thing you
Speaker 4: do in your classroom.
Speaker 6: Yeah. So one of the things that I tell my
Speaker 6: students is you got to get your hands dirty. You
Speaker 6: can't understand these tools if you don't kind of dig
Speaker 6: in and just see how they work. So one giving
Speaker 6: them permission and encouraging them to do it in terms
Speaker 6: of how they might be able to use these tools
Speaker 6: to help them learn better. I encourage them to as
Speaker 6: they're wrestling maybe with concepts that are confusing, they haven't
Speaker 6: completely wrapped their heads around it. And when we think
Speaker 6: about large language models, these tools are really helpful in
Speaker 6: that sense. Right, if there's a passage in the book
Speaker 6: and you're not quite following it, or there's a case
Speaker 6: right and you need some assistance in breaking it down,
Speaker 6: running that information through a large language model and then
Speaker 6: asking questions about it can be really beneficial. Also in
Speaker 6: the law school, the legal context, large languge models are
Speaker 6: really helpful for that as well. But one thing I
Speaker 6: do caution my students is that any understanding that you
Speaker 6: think you have gained through the use of these tools,
Speaker 6: you need to circle back to your professor and make
Speaker 6: sure that your understanding is correct.
Speaker 4: I love that, and I've seen the importance of that
Speaker 4: in my own classroom too. You mentioned so many of
Speaker 4: the things that these tools are great at, but I
Speaker 4: think another thing that AI in the classroom can help
Speaker 4: us with is democratizing the classroom. And so, Justina, I'm
Speaker 4: curious in what ways do you think integrating AI into
Speaker 4: education is help us going to bridge these gaps and
Speaker 4: actually democratize access to education even more.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's going to really make a difference
Speaker 5: in providing access to education in many different ways. I
Speaker 5: want to give you an example. Through our IBM Skills
Speaker 5: Bill program, we're infusing AI technology into the platform to
Speaker 5: create a more personalized enhance experience for learners in every language.
Speaker 5: So we are creating personalized learning pathways, we are tailoring
Speaker 5: the access to our learners to meet their individual needs,
Speaker 5: and we are also using AI to answer questions in
Speaker 5: a more timely and accurate manner. If you really think
Speaker 5: about it, you will need a significant staff to be
Speaker 5: able to respond quickly to questions to make sure the
Speaker 5: questions are accurate. With AI, we can answer questions immediately,
Speaker 5: we can answer them in a more sophisticated way than
Speaker 5: we did in the past, and we can also offer
Speaker 5: cost recommendations and learning pathways that meet their needs. We
Speaker 5: have courses such as AI Ethics and prompt Writing and
Speaker 5: getting started with machine Learning, all the way to actually
Speaker 5: use in coding to help create these large language models.
Speaker 5: So when you think about the average learner that we
Speaker 5: are working with, they may want just an introductory course
Speaker 5: on AI ethics or understanding how to use AI in
Speaker 5: their day to day work, or they actually may want
Speaker 5: to understand how do you so really leverage a code
Speaker 5: for a large language model, And I think it's important
Speaker 5: to give them all the different options and create those
Speaker 5: personalized learning pathways for them. The other thing around really
Speaker 5: democratizing opportunities to provide free access to this kind of learning,
Speaker 5: and we do that again through our Skills Bill program.
Speaker 5: If you have courses that you can only pay to access,
Speaker 5: then you're really not given the opportunity for everyone to
Speaker 5: advance and to learn. So by leveraging AI on our
Speaker 5: platform but also providing that free access, we're really helping
Speaker 5: to breage the gap, you know, for learners and make
Speaker 5: sure they can upskill and reskill themselves and help them
Speaker 5: also increase social and economic mobility.
Speaker 4: So it sounds like an amazing program. Justina, Can you
Speaker 4: describe the vision behind IBM Skills Build and how it's
Speaker 4: built to reach so many learners around the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So, IBM has always been committed to investing in the
Speaker 5: future of work and with offered educational experiences for many,
Speaker 5: many years. And IBM Skills Built is a program. Again,
Speaker 5: it's free, it's open, anyone can access it, but it's
Speaker 5: really around getting access to the right technical skills and
Speaker 5: workplace learning skills so that you could be prepared for
Speaker 5: a career in technology, but in any industry and any field.
Speaker 5: We know now that understanding technology, understanding AI or cybersecurity
Speaker 5: or any of those tech topics are needed whether you're
Speaker 5: working in a tech company, or whether you're working in
Speaker 5: retail or in legal or any of these different industries.
Speaker 5: So we want to make sure we could provide that
Speaker 5: access to learners. In twenty twenty one, we launched a
Speaker 5: global commitment to skill thirty million people by twenty thirty
Speaker 5: and we are making significant progress against that goal. Just
Speaker 5: last year, we reported that we skilled eleven point five
Speaker 5: million learners around the world, and these are learners that
Speaker 5: enrolled in IBM courses, including access in our platform, IBM
Speaker 5: Skills Build, and it's really the cornerstone of our education
Speaker 5: work at IBM. We really focus on scaling our work
Speaker 5: through partnerships. So we partner with historically black colleges and universities,
Speaker 5: and that's how, of course, we got the chance to
Speaker 5: meet April. We partner with nonprofit organizations across the globe.
Speaker 5: We also partner with governments to make sure we provide
Speaker 5: that free access to the communities that are aligned with
Speaker 5: their national agenda around skill in and those communities that
Speaker 5: are most in need. It's really important that we scale
Speaker 5: the program through those premier partnerships, so that's extremely important
Speaker 5: to us.
Speaker 3: The vision behind IBM Skills Build is truly inspiring. In
Speaker 3: a world where technology is changing every industry, having access
Speaker 3: to these crucial skills is more important than ever. This
Speaker 3: initiative is breaking down barriers and in suring that people
Speaker 3: from all walks of life can participate in the future
Speaker 3: of work. In order to effectively scale a platform, the
Speaker 3: strategic collaborations with educational institutions, nonprofits and governments are key.
Speaker 3: It's clear that IBM is deeply invested in creating long
Speaker 3: lasting change in communities around the world. This approach will
Speaker 3: strengthen the workforce globally, helping to bridge the digital divide
Speaker 3: and create more equitable opportunities in the tech space.
Speaker 4: So now we're shifting gears to think a little bit
Speaker 4: about the real world insights. Justina, what can you tell
Speaker 4: us about the skills first movement? This seems to be
Speaker 4: an open approach to attracting top talent. What are you
Speaker 4: hearing from students and partners.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So IBM has been leading the skills first movement for
Speaker 5: quite some time. And one of the things that we realized,
Speaker 5: and we actually tested this out, is that you don't
Speaker 5: always need a four year degree to be successful at
Speaker 5: a tech job. So when we looked at the job
Speaker 5: postings that we had, we decided to make a commitment
Speaker 5: to have at least fifty percent of our job postings
Speaker 5: not requiring a four year degree. And when we started
Speaker 5: hiring people without a four year degree in certain roles,
Speaker 5: we realized that they were as successful as those with
Speaker 5: a four year degree. Now, this doesn't work across the board,
Speaker 5: but this is really a way to get access to
Speaker 5: what I consider to be untapped talent that are skilled
Speaker 5: in different ways. Maybe they've had some experiences already, maybe
Speaker 5: they have a different set of badges and certificates or
Speaker 5: other credentials that can support them getting access to some
Speaker 5: of the roles that are offered by companies. So this
Speaker 5: is really a way to help address the opportunity gap
Speaker 5: and provide a pathway for diverse talent.
Speaker 4: What impact do you think AI has had on global
Speaker 4: learning standards broadly so far.
Speaker 6: I think from the perspective of a law student realizing
Speaker 6: that this little universe in which we kind of thought
Speaker 6: we might operate has expanded. When we think about AI
Speaker 6: and we think about the implications of AI, it goes
Speaker 6: far beyond our state national I mean, you have to
Speaker 6: have an understanding of what's going on in other countries.
Speaker 6: So even when we're thinking about the regulation of AI
Speaker 6: and the governance of AI and policies surrounding AI, it
Speaker 6: means you have to be open to learning about what's
Speaker 6: happening in other countries where AI is disrupting those spaces
Speaker 6: as well. So again, I think it really underscores for
Speaker 6: our law students how you have to see yourself as
Speaker 6: part of a larger team. Lawyers don't work in isolation,
Speaker 6: and it's really good that law students are recognizing that
Speaker 6: while they're still in school.
Speaker 4: So it really seems like these technologies are kind of
Speaker 4: changing the learning experience in law by making kind of
Speaker 4: broader and maybe more global. Justin can you share any
Speaker 4: example of how IBM Skills build has made a significant
Speaker 4: difference in other kinds of learning journeys?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I mean this is one of the most rewarding
Speaker 5: parts of my job. What I get excited about is
Speaker 5: when I travel and I meet with students who have
Speaker 5: been a part of IBM Skills Build and they have
Speaker 5: been able to use the learning, the certificates, the opportunities
Speaker 5: that we've provided them around mentorship as well to be
Speaker 5: able to move into a better paying job or a
Speaker 5: new job that they did not have the opportunity previously.
Speaker 5: We had one of our learners, his name was Oscar
Speaker 5: and he arrived in California from Mexico when he was
Speaker 5: around five years old and he worked and he attended
Speaker 5: college full time. But during his last semester, he was
Speaker 5: introduced to the IBM Skills Build program through the Hispanic
Speaker 5: Heritage Foundation, one of our partners, and through the career
Speaker 5: assessment tool of the program, he identified areas where he
Speaker 5: could excel and it allowed him to dig deeper into
Speaker 5: learning paths that match his interests and his skills. So
Speaker 5: he started taking cosses such as AI Fundamentals, he earned credentials,
Speaker 5: and he was able to get a better role when
Speaker 5: he graduated from college. So we have so many beneficiaries
Speaker 5: of the program who have been able to access the training,
Speaker 5: also access the mentorship that we provide through the program
Speaker 5: and able to get a better pain on new job
Speaker 5: because of it.
Speaker 4: That's fabulous, April. I know your students have used IBM
Speaker 4: skills builled. Can you give us an example of how
Speaker 4: it's made an important impact on a student's journey.
Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely so. I mentioned that we taught a Blockchain
Speaker 6: for Lawyers class and one of the students had a
Speaker 6: big interest in blockchain cryptocurrency. He actually also had a
Speaker 6: master's in information science and so he was a dual
Speaker 6: degree student. He was also in my AI and the
Speaker 6: law class, so he not only got the blockchain certificate,
Speaker 6: he got the AI Foundation certificate. It he wound up
Speaker 6: being the editor in chief of the law journal and
Speaker 6: he is a legal tech lawyer. And so this kind
Speaker 6: of goes back to what Justina was saying about making
Speaker 6: sure that the talent that's there has access to the resources.
Speaker 6: It really does make a big difference in so many
Speaker 6: of our students' lives.
Speaker 4: That's such an inspiring story, Justina. I'm curious what impact
Speaker 4: Skills Build has had on the communities you work with,
Speaker 4: maybe even beyond just students.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so it has had a tremendous impact in our communities.
Speaker 5: I think one of the big things about digital skills
Speaker 5: and upskill in and reskilling is not just in certain areas.
Speaker 5: For example, I mentioned the story of Oscar who was
Speaker 5: graduating from college got access to Skills Build. It helped
Speaker 5: him get a better paying job. But we have programs
Speaker 5: in sustainability as well where we are working with farmers
Speaker 5: in the middle of Texas and we are providing access
Speaker 5: to skills Build as well so that they can use
Speaker 5: the technology and understand the technology that we are bringing
Speaker 5: to them throughout Sustainability Accelerator program. And what's so interesting
Speaker 5: about this is we need to upskill and reskill them
Speaker 5: as well. Right, So if you think about certain jobs
Speaker 5: where you just need to better understand the data or
Speaker 5: the technology, our partnerships with nonprofits to be able to
Speaker 5: bring it to people in different fields, and sustainability is
Speaker 5: one that we focus on as well that has been
Speaker 5: inspiring to me. We also have programs where we focus
Speaker 5: on girls, especially in India, and make sure we're giving
Speaker 5: them access to this kind of training and mentorship again
Speaker 5: to make them competitive in the marketplace, to make sure
Speaker 5: that they have an opportunity at a good paying job
Speaker 5: and that they could be independent. So our global partners
Speaker 5: work with us on leveraging skills, build curating it in
Speaker 5: a way that makes sense for their communities that they
Speaker 5: want to impact. And we focus on women who have
Speaker 5: left the work and they want to return. We focus
Speaker 5: on veterans. We focus on black communities in the US
Speaker 5: or Hispanic communities. So we really look at those really
Speaker 5: great global partnerships and make sure we are bringing in
Speaker 5: people who would have been otherwise left out of the
Speaker 5: tech field and giving them the opportunity to reskill and
Speaker 5: upskill themselves, and helping them through our partnerships, connect to
Speaker 5: good paying jobs as well.
Speaker 4: So so far we've been focused on students in their learning,
Speaker 4: but now I want to turn to both of your learning.
Speaker 4: I'm curious, what are some challenges that you've faced in
Speaker 4: your careers and how have you overcome them?
Speaker 6: Yeah. Sure. So one of the things that I quickly
Speaker 6: found out was that law school was not as I envisioned.
Speaker 6: You kind of go in, you think it's one thing,
Speaker 6: it's another. The curriculum can be very surprising. It's not
Speaker 6: like the undergraduate curriculum. And I just had to kind
Speaker 6: of reach out and develop mentors. And I was very
Speaker 6: lucky in that I had a number of individuals who
Speaker 6: provided me with a tremendous amount of support, and I
Speaker 6: think that's one of the reasons why I love teaching
Speaker 6: so much, is to be able to support the students
Speaker 6: and just help them kind of build their community and
Speaker 6: their network so they can excel and then they can
Speaker 6: reach back and help others excel as well.
Speaker 4: I love that. Justina, same question. What are some key
Speaker 4: challenges that you've faced in your career and how have
Speaker 4: you overcome them?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm smiling because what April mentioned is exactly the
Speaker 5: experience I've had. I was one of the only black
Speaker 5: women to graduate from my school's mechanical engineering program, and
Speaker 5: when my children were very young, I also stepped away
Speaker 5: from the workforce for several years to focus on them.
Speaker 5: And I don't think I would be successful today without
Speaker 5: the help of mentors. They're the ones that really helped
Speaker 5: me to be successful, to understand the corporate environment, to
Speaker 5: connect me with with other opportunities, and I think it's
Speaker 5: important to me to make myself available to others, and
Speaker 5: that's a really big part of what I do. I
Speaker 5: want to make myself at my field more representative of
Speaker 5: the work that we do and I want to make
Speaker 5: sure that I provide access to others and give others
Speaker 5: the same types of opportunities I have, and that's why
Speaker 5: I do enjoy leading this type of work at IBM.
Speaker 4: Here here to both of you giving back to the
Speaker 4: students that we were back in the day. It's so important, Justina.
Speaker 4: IBM has a goal of equipping thirty million learners with
Speaker 4: technology skills by twenty thirty as part of the IBM
Speaker 4: Skills Build programming. Why is this initiative important and how
Speaker 4: is IBM planning to exactly achieve this.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we believe the talent gap is one of the
Speaker 5: biggest challenges that we face in society today. So AI
Speaker 5: of course is accelerating this movement and there's more of
Speaker 5: a sense of urgency. However, we know that there is
Speaker 5: a significant talent gap and that there are many people
Speaker 5: that are disadvantage who are not getting access to the
Speaker 5: right opportunities, and that's why we made the commitment to
Speaker 5: skill thirty million people by twenty thirty, and that's why
Speaker 5: we're providing free access to programs like IBM Skills Build
Speaker 5: with over a thousand courses in twenty languages, to make
Speaker 5: them accessible to all and to give others the chance
Speaker 5: to be successful. Last year, we also announced the commitment
Speaker 5: to train two million people in AI over the next
Speaker 5: three years, because again we understand the importance of AI
Speaker 5: and understanding it to be successful in any job, especially
Speaker 5: an entry level job. So we're continuing to expand our
Speaker 5: AI offerings because we know that it is exacerbating the
Speaker 5: talent gap and we know that these skills will be
Speaker 5: in demand significantly by corporations.
Speaker 4: So, April, Justina just mentioned, you know, all the changes
Speaker 4: that we're seeing at AI. I'm curious what role you
Speaker 4: think educators play in terms of making students aware of
Speaker 4: all these technological and societal changes happening in their fields.
Speaker 6: Yeah, educators are so vital. And one of the things
Speaker 6: that I've noticed is that students who have not engaged
Speaker 6: with the tech have not done so either because an educator,
Speaker 6: a teacher or professor has told them not to that
Speaker 6: you know, they just say, you know, no, you can't
Speaker 6: use it, or they haven't said anything at all, They
Speaker 6: haven't encouraged them to look into it to try it.
Speaker 6: And we have to encourage students to become familiar with
Speaker 6: these tools for all the reasons that Justina mentioned in
Speaker 6: terms of what the workforce is demanding. But also if
Speaker 6: we don't provide them with guidance, then there's the real
Speaker 6: chance that they will use them inappropriately. So we have
Speaker 6: to provide them with permission to dive in. We have
Speaker 6: to teach them how to use these tools ethically, with integrity,
Speaker 6: what are the best practices? And again that kind of
Speaker 6: goes back to something I mentioned before, which I speak
Speaker 6: about a lot, is that it requires educators to themselves
Speaker 6: learn about these tools. And that's one of the reasons
Speaker 6: why I was so appreciative of the trainer program because
Speaker 6: again we started offering courses at the Law School, because
Speaker 6: these courses were provided free of charge, of course to
Speaker 6: our faculty, so we were able to upskill and reskill
Speaker 6: and then turn around and share that with our students.
Speaker 6: So educators are vital. But I also think that we
Speaker 6: need to make sure we do a better job as
Speaker 6: a society of supporting our educators so that they can
Speaker 6: gain the knowledge and then pay that forward to the students.
Speaker 4: Right because not everybody's providing the kinds of free resources
Speaker 4: the IBM provides. We're teachers who really need it. April
Speaker 4: in what ways has IBM Skills Build changed your perspective
Speaker 4: on the potential of AI and education.
Speaker 6: Well as far as the potential, it makes it so
Speaker 6: much easier, right, I mean, it lightens the lift for educators.
Speaker 6: If I had to design the AI Foundations class, you know,
Speaker 6: ground up, there's no way I could have done that.
Speaker 6: And if we're thinking about exposing students, regardless of their
Speaker 6: area of study to AI or to technology, those that
Speaker 6: are experts in those particular spaces, they're not going to
Speaker 6: be able to build those courses. So having something like
Speaker 6: IBM Skills Build available so that we can you know,
Speaker 6: design a course around those modules that are already put
Speaker 6: together is incredibly helpful. And so it means the potential
Speaker 6: of providing AI education to all students. It just really
Speaker 6: increases the possibility, which is good for all of us.
Speaker 4: Justina, as you think about your work at IBM, how
Speaker 4: do you balance the need for technological innovation with the
Speaker 4: importance of maintaining a human centered approach and education.
Speaker 5: I really like how April touched on ethics earlier, because
Speaker 5: it is so important that we continue to make sure
Speaker 5: the human is at the center of everything that we
Speaker 5: do and that we are protecting people. Even as we
Speaker 5: foster innovation with AI and the way that IBM has
Speaker 5: done that, we've had reasonable policies and guardrails in place
Speaker 5: around everything that we do around AI. I'm actually a
Speaker 5: part of our AI Ethics Board. We meet on a
Speaker 5: regular basis to discuss cases, to discuss technology, and we
Speaker 5: actually have discussions and make decisions on what is the
Speaker 5: right thing to do, and we are always considering a
Speaker 5: human centered approach. How do we make sure that we
Speaker 5: are protecting people and how do we make sure that
Speaker 5: we have their voice in every decision that we make.
Speaker 5: We have three principles around trust and transparency, and the
Speaker 5: first is the purpose of AI is to augment human intelligence,
Speaker 5: not replace it. The second is that data and insights
Speaker 5: belong to their creators, So with anyone that we work with,
Speaker 5: we make sure that we protect their data insights and
Speaker 5: it belongs to them, it doesn't belong to us. And
Speaker 5: then any new technology, including any AI products, systems, platforms,
Speaker 5: must be transparent and explainable. So I think that's important
Speaker 5: to have those types of principles in place. I'm proud
Speaker 5: to be a part of the AI Ethics Board making
Speaker 5: decisions around how AI is deployed, and I think making
Speaker 5: sure that we continue to keep humans people at the
Speaker 5: center of every decision we make around innovation is how
Speaker 5: we protect them.
Speaker 4: So we've talked so much about all the changes that
Speaker 4: are happening right now. Justin know, I kind of want
Speaker 4: you to put on your like, you know, future prediction cap.
Speaker 4: What future developments do you anticipate in the realm of
Speaker 4: open education.
Speaker 5: I think that and I've been in education a very
Speaker 5: long time, and I remember us talking about personalized learning
Speaker 5: maybe ten years fifteen years ago, and I'm not sure
Speaker 5: it ever came to fruition in the way that we imagined.
Speaker 5: And we know that the teacher will always be the guide.
Speaker 5: They will always be the one that's needed. I don't
Speaker 5: think any technology will ever replace teachers, But I think
Speaker 5: what AI can do is enhanced that experience by really
Speaker 5: creating personalized learning content and experiences in the education space.
Speaker 5: I think that is one of the things that I
Speaker 5: would say should be something we see in the very
Speaker 5: near future around the acceleration of AI.
Speaker 4: April, You've done so much elegant work teaching your students
Speaker 4: about AI and technology. I'm curious what advice you have
Speaker 4: for other educators and technologists looking to advocate for a
Speaker 4: skills first approach or more AI training for their students,
Speaker 4: what advice will you have for with them?
Speaker 6: The first piece of advice that I always give is
Speaker 6: don't feel overwhelmed because you can. I mean, there's a
Speaker 6: lot going on. It's hard to keep up with how
Speaker 6: fast things are moving, even for those of us that
Speaker 6: love this space. You don't have to do everything at once,
Speaker 6: just you know, baby steps, and that's that's absolutely fine.
Speaker 6: Thank you.
Speaker 4: As a professor, I have to say I needed to
Speaker 4: hear that, so giving myself grace taking that one to heart.
Speaker 6: In fact, I have in my PowerPoint presentation the first
Speaker 6: slide I put up is of a turtle and it
Speaker 6: says slow your role. And it's like, I'm going to
Speaker 6: be talking about a lot of things, but I want
Speaker 6: you to remember this slide, just slow your role. It's okay.
Speaker 6: The other thing that I encourage professors to do is
Speaker 6: to join an educator community group. And there are a
Speaker 6: lot that have popped up as a result of jin
Speaker 6: ai and the disruption that we're seeing just in the
Speaker 6: education space, and so how can we crowd source our
Speaker 6: advice without a doubt. If you're thinking about a particular
Speaker 6: assignment and how you might use Jenai in crafting that
Speaker 6: assignment or incorporating it in the assessment, there is a
Speaker 6: professor out there who has either already done it or
Speaker 6: they're also thinking about it. So you know, let's be
Speaker 6: more collaborative. And I will say that's been really wonderful
Speaker 6: for me as a law professor, being able to collaborate
Speaker 6: with professors from other disciplines. And the last thing that
Speaker 6: I would say, you know, sometimes it can be hard
Speaker 6: to convince your colleagues within your institution to be progressive,
Speaker 6: and if you can bring an outside speaker to come
Speaker 6: in and kind of just share what's going on, that
Speaker 6: can oftentimes get people moving even if you within the
Speaker 6: building aren't able to get that same traction. So those
Speaker 6: are kind of the three pieces of advice that I'll
Speaker 6: typically give professors.
Speaker 4: So this has been a fabulous conversation that we are
Speaker 4: reaching the end of our time. But before we rap,
Speaker 4: let's do a speed round. Ready, first question April first,
Speaker 4: complete this sentence. In five years, AI will blank.
Speaker 6: In five years, AI will be more fully leveraged to
Speaker 6: help lawyers better serve their clients. More efficiently and will
Speaker 6: help close the access to justice gap.
Speaker 4: Nice justin the same question.
Speaker 5: In five years, AI will have disrupted every industry and
Speaker 5: there would have been significant advancements made in education and
Speaker 5: sustainability with the use of AI.
Speaker 4: Okay, speed round question number two. What is the number
Speaker 4: one thing that people misunderstand about AI?
Speaker 5: Justin at you first, The number one misunderstanding about AI
Speaker 5: is that it's going to destroy everyone's jobs. I think
Speaker 5: that people with AI skills or understanding of AI will
Speaker 5: have some advantages in the workplace.
Speaker 4: April.
Speaker 6: The number one thing people misunderstand about AI is that
Speaker 6: only computer scientists or mathematicians or engineers can understand it.
Speaker 6: You can gain an understanding again through baby steps, and
Speaker 6: there are so many resources available. If you explore the
Speaker 6: information and bite sized pieces, you can begin to wrap
Speaker 6: your head around it.
Speaker 4: Okay, next speed around question, what advice would you give
Speaker 4: yourself ten years ago to better prepare you for today?
Speaker 5: Justina you first, The advice I would give myself ten
Speaker 5: years ago is to continue learning. I always love understanding technology.
Speaker 5: I always dove deep into whether it's machine learning or
Speaker 5: four G and five G technologies. Understanding AI and hybrid
Speaker 5: cloud today is something that I also enjoy doing, so
Speaker 5: I would say continue learning, continue diving into these technologies,
Speaker 5: continue understanding what it means for you and your future career, April.
Speaker 6: Be more interdisciplinary, so stay current with the evolution of
Speaker 6: computer science, but also incorporate the study of data and
Speaker 6: ethics and sociology because the challenges they're opposed by AI
Speaker 6: they're multifaceted and you have to have an understanding in
Speaker 6: these areas to really address the promise and the challenges
Speaker 6: of AI.
Speaker 4: Final speed round question, how are you already using AI
Speaker 4: in your day to day life today?
Speaker 2: April.
Speaker 6: So I use it in my teaching. The other way
Speaker 6: that I plan on using it in the future is
Speaker 6: serving the students and then using the data analysis tool
Speaker 6: to help me gather that information and figure out how
Speaker 6: best to address the information that I've received from my students.
Speaker 5: Nice, Justina, Yeah, So the way that we're using AI
Speaker 5: today is to actually analyze complex and large data sets
Speaker 5: in our sustainability work to provide insights to some of
Speaker 5: our partners on how they can increase crop yield, for example,
Speaker 5: or how they can deliver clean energy solutions to rural areas.
Speaker 5: So we actively using it in the programs that we
Speaker 5: have within our corporate Social Responsibility portfolio and also integrating
Speaker 5: it into our Skills Bill platform.
Speaker 4: Well, thank you both so much. You did excellent in
Speaker 4: the speed round, but it was just so fabulous to
Speaker 4: talk to you both today. I think this is a
Speaker 4: time of so many exciting challenges in the field of education,
Speaker 4: and it was fabulous to hear more about how AI
Speaker 4: and IBM Skills Build and so many technologies can help
Speaker 4: us out. Thank you both so much for this fun conversation.
Speaker 5: Thank you for having us. It was great.
Speaker 6: Yes, thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 3: What an insightful conversation with Justina and April. This discussion
Speaker 3: demonstrated how technology and education can intersect to create a
Speaker 3: meaningful impact in today's educational landscape. Students must utilize AI
Speaker 3: in the classroom in order to prepare for the modern workforce,
Speaker 3: and educators must use the technology, including IBM Skills Build,
Speaker 3: to train students for the complexities of tomorrow's challenges. As
Speaker 3: April and Justina emphasized, impact starts by centering the humans
Speaker 3: using the tool. Ensuring their empowered to access, adopt, and
Speaker 3: excel with the technology is just as critical as the
Speaker 3: power of the tool itself. Justina and April's work is
Speaker 3: a powerful reminder that as we continue to integrate AI
Speaker 3: technology into our educational systems, we have the opportunity to
Speaker 3: create more equitable and accessible learning environments. It's clear that
Speaker 3: the future of learning and technology is bright and the
Speaker 3: adoption of AI is crucial in shaping that future. Smart
Speaker 3: Talks with IBM is produced by Matt Romano, Joey fish Ground,
Speaker 3: Amy Gains McQuaid, and Jacob Goldstein or edited by Lydia
Speaker 3: gene Kott. Our engineers are Sarah Bugaer and Ben Tolliday.
Speaker 3: Theme song by Gramoscope Special thanks to the eight Bar
Speaker 3: and IBM teams, as well as the Pushkin marketing team.
Speaker 3: Smart Talks with IBM is a production of Pushkin Industries
Speaker 3: and Ruby Studio at iHeartMedia. To find more Pushkin podcasts,
Speaker 3: listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 3: listen to podcasts. I'm Malcolm Glapa. This is a paid
Speaker 3: advertisement from IBM. The conversations on this podcast don't necessarily
Speaker 3: represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.