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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not going to Steph.

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Speaker 1: I never told your protection of high radio. And Happy

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Speaker 1: Star Wars Day, Happy Star Wars Day. Yes, yes, I

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Speaker 1: believe made the fourth Be with you when this comes out, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: if you're listening to it when it comes out. It

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Speaker 1: is Star Wars Day. Very exciting and I'm sure you've

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Speaker 1: heard a lot of our Star Wars content lately. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And we thought, well, I thought what better way to

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Speaker 1: celebrate than with a feminist movie Wednesday on Rogue one,

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Speaker 1: a Star Wars story, And in fact, I, for the

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Speaker 1: occasion made a very special drink. It's unfortunately I made

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Speaker 1: it kind of on a whim this morning, so it's

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Speaker 1: not quite there yet. But it's like a gin infused

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Speaker 1: with butterfly, he flower and glitter, very very pretty glitter,

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Speaker 1: edible glitter. Oh I didn't just arts and craft glitter

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Speaker 1: in my but it's Star Wars Day, no no edible.

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Speaker 1: And one of the reasons this is on my mind

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Speaker 1: is because over on Saver, the other podcast I do,

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Speaker 1: we're doing an episode on the butterfly pea flower, which

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Speaker 1: actually has a fascinating history and is named after the

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Speaker 1: glitter iss so check that out if you're interested. Alright, So, yes,

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Speaker 1: today we were talking about Rogue on a Star Wars story.

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Speaker 1: A lot of you have written in to suggest this,

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Speaker 1: so thank you. Also, it feels very wrong doing this

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Speaker 1: without Holly Fry because this is her favorite or at

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Speaker 1: least to my unless anything is you know, bumped it

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Speaker 1: off the top is her favorite Star Wars thing, So

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Speaker 1: don't hate his Holly. We're thinking about maybe doing another

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Speaker 1: happy hour with her soon where we could just talk

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Speaker 1: about it. But speaking of this is a movie that

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Speaker 1: will never forget. Uh, watching with Samantha for the first

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Speaker 1: time because we had a bit of a misunderstanding or

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Speaker 1: misunderstanding on my end to be fair, though, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: feel like so we've already had this argument every time

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Speaker 1: every time she brings up this movie. I can't let

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Speaker 1: it go, uh because the one thing that I have

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Speaker 1: assigned her with and again this is all on me.

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Speaker 1: But still I love to project because it's fun that

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Speaker 1: you have to warn me if their sadness in this

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Speaker 1: because I just need to be prepped. I my journey

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Speaker 1: with Star Wars started a year and a half ago,

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Speaker 1: two years ago with you. I have never fully watched

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Speaker 1: any of the movies, and I've never seen it, so

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Speaker 1: I feel like you should have been aware that I

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Speaker 1: knew nothing, and that I get traumatized by very sad movies.

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Speaker 1: And as Holly put it, in which we were trying

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Speaker 1: to relay what happened, this is the Titanic of All

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Speaker 1: Star Wars, the franchise, everybody dies. I was not prepared

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Speaker 1: and the anger on my face. But it's not just

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Speaker 1: that everybody dies, but they start at the very beginning

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Speaker 1: just killing off everyone. So the tone of the whole

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Speaker 1: thing is there's no redemption. They just all die. I

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Speaker 1: remember very clearly we were we were at the beach

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Speaker 1: watching this and there was a part where you I

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Speaker 1: looked over and you were getting angrier and angrier, and

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Speaker 1: it was towards the end, and I kind of struck

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Speaker 1: and I was like, well, what did you expect? I mean,

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Speaker 1: they all die in the end, And the look you

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Speaker 1: gave me struck me down dead. The look I gave

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Speaker 1: me was, what do you mean everybody is dead? Why?

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Speaker 1: Oh man? And then there was a long awkward silence

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Speaker 1: until we got yes. And I just sat there and

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Speaker 1: stared and I said, you've betrayed me, and or something

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Speaker 1: along the lines of why would you do this to me?

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Speaker 1: You should have warned me, what the well? And I

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Speaker 1: you know, my bad, but I just assumed everyone knew

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Speaker 1: that's what happened in that nothing about Star Wars. I

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Speaker 1: think this was our first like head into let's watch

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Speaker 1: the prequels and the sequels at this point in time,

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Speaker 1: I hadn't seen them, and I'm like, why would you

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Speaker 1: do this to me? Well, there was redemption. No one survived,

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Speaker 1: and I was very angry. I was like, I need

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Speaker 1: at least one in person to be alive, and there

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Speaker 1: wasn't and you kept going on. And the thing about

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Speaker 1: that was you kept telling me this is my favorite,

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Speaker 1: one of my favorites, this is Holly's favorite. I did

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Speaker 1: not know why. In my mind that means something happy

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Speaker 1: is happening, and this is gonna be so amazing because

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Speaker 1: this is before I realized you like the traumatizing versions

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Speaker 1: of things fictions, and I was like what. And then

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Speaker 1: on top of that, if I remember correctly, you're like,

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Speaker 1: but it has the best talk scene ever, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: they died. That is that's a good talk though. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gone. This is how my voice goes. Every time

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Speaker 1: we discuss this, I get very very authoritative and annoyed.

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Speaker 1: I like it, uh, and I probably deserve it. I

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Speaker 1: do want to actually mentioned, though, I think this whole misunderstanding,

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Speaker 1: which I'm just going to call it, is actually based

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Speaker 1: on a misunderstanding of mine, because the first time I

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Speaker 1: saw this, this is my favorite non original trilogy Star

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Speaker 1: Wars movie. It's very sad. I watched it yesterday and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I know what happens, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, that's so sad. Uh. I couldn't watch

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Speaker 1: the ending. It is brutal, that is real sad. But

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Speaker 1: the first time I saw it, which was kind of before,

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Speaker 1: I really like, I've always loved Star Wars, but it

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Speaker 1: was kind of before this, like real deep dive I've

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Speaker 1: done during the pandemic. I thought it was supposed to

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Speaker 1: take place between Empire Strikes Back and Returning the Jedi,

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Speaker 1: which is incorrect. I thought it was based on the

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Speaker 1: line mom Mathma says in Return of the Jedi, where

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Speaker 1: she says many Botons died to bring us this information.

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Speaker 1: I thought that's what it was because surprised by those

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Speaker 1: two death stars. So I feel like that's an easy

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Speaker 1: mistake to make, stealing the death Star plans. Also, it's

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Speaker 1: clear I didn't know what a boton was, but anyway

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Speaker 1: or whatever, Um I didn't. I don't. I didn't either,

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Speaker 1: but I would have known something was a miss had

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Speaker 1: I known what a Botham was. So that's part of

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Speaker 1: the reason I kind of thought everyone knew. I thought like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she says it in Return of the Jedi. Many Bothams

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Speaker 1: died to bring this information, which would have been I

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Speaker 1: please don't. This movie is very sad. That would have

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Speaker 1: been sadder because then those that plan was like a fake.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, so I was watching this in theaters when

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Speaker 1: it first came out, and tark And showed up, who

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Speaker 1: was kind of that like creepy older British guy who's

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Speaker 1: in charge of the desk Star and a new hope

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Speaker 1: And I was like, no, this is wrong. How could

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Speaker 1: they make such a big mistake? He's dead? Um good? Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I was wrong. And also I lost my scarf that day,

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Speaker 1: so that was not a win for me, not a

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Speaker 1: win for me. But yes, uh, this movie, I will

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Speaker 1: say as a very big tone old difference, and this

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Speaker 1: is something I'm kind of struggling with with um because

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Speaker 1: the original trilogy, I maintain is like children's fairy tale

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Speaker 1: and I love it, and then this comes in and

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Speaker 1: it's like, but actually everyone dies, and it's well, I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's wrong, but it's kind of like a disconnect.

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. And if you have seen in

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Speaker 1: the in my opinion, very super cute deleted scene from

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Speaker 1: a New Hope where Luke and his friend slash Crush

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Speaker 1: according to fan fiction Big Dark Lighter, who later died

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Speaker 1: in the Battle of Yaven trying to destroy the Desk Star.

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Speaker 1: They're discussing politics and Luke is so excited because he

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Speaker 1: saw in the sky. This is what he thought was

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Speaker 1: a firefight. Um, and yes, that's the battle that's taking

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Speaker 1: place at the end of Rogue. One. Of course that's

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Speaker 1: rhet cond that they did that afterwards, but it is

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Speaker 1: I really like that to leave it scene. But anyway, Um,

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Speaker 1: it happens immediately before A New Hope, immediately before and

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Speaker 1: as dies and then there's Hope whatever you Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: can feel it. I can feel it. James Gunn recently

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Speaker 1: made news when he said that this movie was the

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Speaker 1: most underrated Star Wars anything a series based on the

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Speaker 1: character and or from this movie. Uh recently got greenlit

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Speaker 1: for a second season, even though the first season hasn't

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Speaker 1: come out yet. But then it was supposed to have

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Speaker 1: five and now they've cut it down to three. So

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Speaker 1: who knows. I don't know what's going on indoors where

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Speaker 1: the Wookies now and or not in door. Um. This

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Speaker 1: is why I say no, don't assume I know anything

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Speaker 1: about Star Wars. Is because I've watched it with you times.

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Speaker 1: Why would I assume that. Well, that's kind of why

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Speaker 1: I've shifted the format, and I'm very open to questions

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Speaker 1: at any time, because clearly I have no real grasp

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Speaker 1: on when people don't understand everything that I know about

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Speaker 1: Star Wars a long time. Yes, well it's confusing, it's

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Speaker 1: totally fair. Um. And yes, you can see our many

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Speaker 1: many past episodes on Star Wars, many in this month

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Speaker 1: about fictional women in the world of Star Wars, perhaps

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Speaker 1: for this one particularly, see the one that we did

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Speaker 1: on the feminism of Star Wars Forever ago. Bridge and

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Speaker 1: I did one where we talked about this movie a lot,

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Speaker 1: and the feminist movie Friday our Wednesday. Who knows? On

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Speaker 1: the prequels and the sequels. Uh, which yes, we have done.

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Speaker 1: We have done all of these things. Which I also

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Speaker 1: think the prequels could be the Titanic too, because you

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Speaker 1: know what's happening, but every everybody kind of knows what

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Speaker 1: happens to Darth Vader. Clearly not everyone knew what happened before.

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Speaker 1: I do hope. Anyway, anyway, before an think is angry

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Speaker 1: at me, let's talk about the plot. I'm sure that

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Speaker 1: will make it better. Rogue One is a twenty sixteen

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Speaker 1: space opera directed by Gareth Edwards with a screenplay by

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Speaker 1: Chris Whites and Tony Gilroy from a story by John

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Speaker 1: Noel and Gary Whitta. And yes, I watched this yesterday

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Speaker 1: and then further with characters based on George Clarious. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It is the first standalone moving in the Star Wars universe.

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Speaker 1: It's also the first one that doesn't have the scrolling

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Speaker 1: yellow script at the beginning. Uh yeah, it starts Felicity

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Speaker 1: Jones is jin urso Diego Luna as Cassie, and or

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Speaker 1: Matt Nicholson as Galen orso Ben Middelssohn as Imperial Officer

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Speaker 1: orson critic Donnie Yen, who is a huge name in

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong cinema as cheer at m Way Jeong Wyn

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Speaker 1: as a Malvis whose Holly's favorite, uh rizamed as body

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Speaker 1: Rook Alan Tu Dick as K two s for st

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Speaker 1: Ripker s Sakrera with bonus c G I cameos from

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Speaker 1: Tarkin not necessarily c G I, but Darth Vader and

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Speaker 1: Princess Leiah and other cameos by Jimmy Smith's as Bail

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Speaker 1: Organa whom I love, uh C three PO and R

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Speaker 1: two D two and yes, Darth Vader as is really

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Speaker 1: terrifying Hallway fight scene they mimicked with Luke in The

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Speaker 1: Mandalorian and you can watch a side by side. It's

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Speaker 1: really cool. Also mon Mathma. It was generally well received.

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Speaker 1: It was a financial success. I can't wait till we

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Speaker 1: talked about some of the reviews. It's gonna be so fun. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So the film opens on research scientists Galen Urso and

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Speaker 1: his wife and daughter hiding out on a remote planet.

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Speaker 1: Galen and his wife instruct their daughter Jin their star

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Speaker 1: dust to hide when they noticed Imperial troopers led by

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Speaker 1: weapons developer or some crinic approaching. Jen runs through the

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Speaker 1: fields as Galen confronts Clinic, who is there to force

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Speaker 1: him to work on completing the Empire's planet destroying weapon,

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Speaker 1: the Death Star. Galen tries to refuse, and his wife

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Speaker 1: Lera is killed in the skirmish, and Galen agrees to

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Speaker 1: coman them. We'll talk about that later, I promise. As

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Speaker 1: Jin escapes and is rescued by rebel extremists saw g Rare,

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Speaker 1: who actually was in Clone Wars. So fifteen years go by,

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Speaker 1: cargo pilot named body Rook defects from the Empire in

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Speaker 1: possession of a recorded message from Galen Urzo destin for Sagaria,

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Speaker 1: who is hiding out on the planet of Jetta. The

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Speaker 1: Rebel Alliance hears about this defection and a super weapon

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Speaker 1: called the Death Star, and they send Cassie and and

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Speaker 1: Or an Alliance intelligence officer to investigate. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: Jenner so It is free from a labor camp and

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Speaker 1: brought before Alliance leader in mon Mathma Mind convinces her

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Speaker 1: to aid in the search for Jin's father, Galen, so

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Speaker 1: they can learn more about the Death Star and a

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Speaker 1: possible weakness it might contain, while at the same time

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Speaker 1: to asking Cassian with killing Galen if they find him

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Speaker 1: also unnecessary. I love it. I can't wait till we

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Speaker 1: get to the discussion portion. Cassian Jin and a reprogrammed

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Speaker 1: Imperial joid name K two s O make their way

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Speaker 1: to the planet Jetta, where the Empire is harvesting hiber crystals,

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Speaker 1: which are the hearts of light sabers in order to

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Speaker 1: power the Death Star. When they arrive, things are immediately tense.

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Speaker 1: Saga Era and his forces are facing off against the

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Speaker 1: imperials Jin and Cassing, and are captured and taken to Saw,

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Speaker 1: who has also imprisoned and interrogated Rook. Saw plays Galen's

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Speaker 1: message for Gin, in which Galen reveals he built a

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Speaker 1: weakness into the Death Star called Project start Us, although

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Speaker 1: it's not revealed until later, and that she should go

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Speaker 1: to the planet Scariff to get the imperial layouts of

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Speaker 1: the Project. Cassing and Rooke are able to escape with

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Speaker 1: the help of cheer At m Way, a blind spiritual

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Speaker 1: warrior who uses the Force, and his companion mercenary Blaze.

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Speaker 1: Malba's My favorite line, I will say is when he

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Speaker 1: does get the hood on his head and he's like,

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Speaker 1: really right because he's blind. I thought that was fantastic,

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Speaker 1: and I'll laugh every time, and that he is the

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Speaker 1: one who even character except he dies. So at the

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Speaker 1: same time, Critic, who was desperate to show off the

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Speaker 1: fruits of his labor and looks very much a German

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Speaker 1: Nazi soldier uh and get recognition for his work, orders

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Speaker 1: a low power demonstration of what the Death Star is

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Speaker 1: capable of by firing at the capital of Jetta. Jin

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Speaker 1: and the Gain are able to escape in time. Those

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Speaker 1: Sagarira stays behind, which he didn't have to. I don't understand.

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Speaker 1: The demonstration backfires for Clinic when Tarkan takes control of

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Speaker 1: the project due to rocks defection and related security issues.

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Speaker 1: So he claims, I love the java between Turkid and

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Speaker 1: Darth Vader each othernic We're going to talk about that.

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Speaker 1: I have a whole section on it. But I really

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Speaker 1: love they're they're kind of like sassy. So I want

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Speaker 1: to go back to that. Sagarira could have lived Okay, yes,

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Speaker 1: he could have us heah, he's very intense. We shall

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Speaker 1: say he's perfectly cast though, I just want to put

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Speaker 1: that out. Excellent Whitaker so great anyway, m m m hmmm.

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Speaker 1: Rook directs them to the planet of I Do, where

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Speaker 1: Galen are So is stationed. Cassian instructs Jin to stay

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Speaker 1: behind on the ship. She ignores him, sneaking out to

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Speaker 1: catch a glimpse of her father, who again she has

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Speaker 1: not seen since she was a child. Cassian prepares to

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Speaker 1: kill Galen via sniper rifle, but decides against it when

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Speaker 1: he notices Jin approaching. However, the rebel forces launch a

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Speaker 1: bomb strike that hits just after she reveals herself, and

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Speaker 1: after Galen admits he is the trader, Critic orders the

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Speaker 1: death of the other researchers on his team and they

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Speaker 1: are executed. So this happens, and then the rebels come

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Speaker 1: in and they launched his bomb strike um and Galen

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Speaker 1: is wounded and dies in Jim's arms. She is forced

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Speaker 1: to leave his body behind and escapes with Cassian and

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Speaker 1: the others. Critic is summoned by Vader, and when Critic

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Speaker 1: demands to speak with them for Vader forced chokes him,

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Speaker 1: telling him to be careful not to choke on his aspirations. Classic.

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Speaker 1: I wonder how many puns he went around making, You

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Speaker 1: know he should have, especially when it's like don't choke

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Speaker 1: on the Also, that didn't sound much, James Earl Jones.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to put that in there when I heard

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Speaker 1: that line. Um so Jin, now armed with the knowledge

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Speaker 1: of her father's intentions after all this time, who have

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Speaker 1: obviously has to die so they can't have be happy,

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Speaker 1: tries to pursue the leaders of the rebel fleet to

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Speaker 1: go to scare Of to steal the death Star plans,

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Speaker 1: but she fails, obviously because everything is the worst. Determined

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Speaker 1: to try anyway, she sets out to common Deer a

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Speaker 1: ship and it's approached by Cassian and a group of

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Speaker 1: fighters who want to help her out of guilt. I

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Speaker 1: don't know rock names are still an Imperial ship. Rogue one.

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Speaker 1: Jin gives an inspirational speech about how they're going to

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Speaker 1: fight till the very end, and they do a disguise Jin,

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Speaker 1: Cassian and K two s O, who has become my favorite,

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Speaker 1: one of my favorites. I've decided that I just truly

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Speaker 1: love defiant rebellious robots or drawing. Those are my favorite

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Speaker 1: because I love some K two s O as much

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Speaker 1: as I love Chopper. Yes, Chopper is also fantastic. Just

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Speaker 1: so you know. They entered the Imperial base while the

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Speaker 1: rest of the rebellion force attacks to cause a distraction,

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Speaker 1: and they all die. When the Lions leaders hear about this,

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Speaker 1: they reverse their decision and send their fleet in support.

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Speaker 1: And then comes all the sadness and all the death,

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Speaker 1: and all the hateful, hateful beasts, and all the fields.

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Speaker 1: It is moving. I was surprised, I was moved. I'm angry.

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Speaker 1: I think that might be our differences and emotional reactions

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Speaker 1: to things. But okay, here we go. Let's break down

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Speaker 1: these sadness. So K two s O sacrifices himself so

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Speaker 1: Jin and Cassian can enter the room where the data

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Speaker 1: is held. And notably, this is after the kind of

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Speaker 1: Jin who is distrustful of Joys, gave him his much

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Speaker 1: desired blaster, like they kind of had this connection. Suret

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Speaker 1: dies after activating the master's switch so the rebellion can

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Speaker 1: contact the ground to get the data base. Malvis dies,

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Speaker 1: killing Imperial forces to hold them back Uh and the yard,

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Speaker 1: saying I am one with the force, the forces with me.

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Speaker 1: Brooke dies by grenade after informing the rebel forces what

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Speaker 1: they need to do to intercept the desk Star plans

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Speaker 1: and also setting up this connection. One of the rebels

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Speaker 1: uses a Hammerhead corvette ship to destroy two star destroyers,

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Speaker 1: causing the ensuing wreckage to crash onto the shield generator

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Speaker 1: and causing it to fail. Meanwhile, Jin and Cassian get

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Speaker 1: their hands on the plans, what are attacked by Critic,

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Speaker 1: who shoots and wounds Cassian. Jin climbs up to the

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Speaker 1: top of the structure and after some obstacles and a fight,

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Speaker 1: is able to transmit the schematics moments before the Desktar

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Speaker 1: arrives above. Scareff is very visually cool by the way,

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Speaker 1: um Tarkian orders another low powered blast at the antenna,

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Speaker 1: killing Critic and causing a tsunami that kills Cassian and Jin. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this is my best satisfy, however, and all the remaining

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Speaker 1: ground forces. Meanwhile, the Rebel fleet tries to jump to hyperspace,

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Speaker 1: but they are besieged by Darth Vader's star destroyer. Vader

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Speaker 1: arrives on one of the ships and kills many of

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Speaker 1: the Rebel soldiers, but they managed to pass along the

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Speaker 1: plans to another starship that escapes. Uh. Some archival footage

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Speaker 1: was used in this scene, and apparently they used vintage

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Speaker 1: seventies lenses and asked like the dudes to grow mutton

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Speaker 1: shops and mustaches to manage the seventies five pins? Is

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Speaker 1: there no Perkins? The two of them do show up.

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Speaker 1: I look for Porkins. One character I knew outside of

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Speaker 1: R two D two Leia Luke Darth Vader Han, which

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Speaker 1: I don't even think on New Hans named Chewbacca, M

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Speaker 1: is Porkins. And even to this day, I don't even

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Speaker 1: think I'll remember any of the other generals. I just

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Speaker 1: know Porkins. Anyway, keep going anyway, Perkins deside aside Yes.

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Speaker 1: Princess Leia is revealed, and this is after bail Or

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Speaker 1: Ghana is like, I have some mine. I trust her

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Speaker 1: with my life. Who bail Or Gana obviously being her dad,

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Speaker 1: her doctor dad, and she assures the person that hands

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Speaker 1: are the plans, that they contain hope. Uh. And the

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Speaker 1: movie came out less than two weeks before Carrie Fisher's death,

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Speaker 1: by the way, so it was really emotional when this happened,

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Speaker 1: and it jumps right into a new hope that that's

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Speaker 1: e seconds away. And just to really twist the nice

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Speaker 1: Samantha and they altern an ending they lived, characters lived,

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Speaker 1: but that sounds to here is the rage seating inside

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Speaker 1: this was that this was the original ending. But I

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Speaker 1: think some of the executives were like, oh gosh, this

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Speaker 1: is so sad. Two have the damn droid live, my god,

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Speaker 1: knowing Star Wars somehow that droid will show back up,

359
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 1: like at least my God. I love him, He's one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite actors. He needed to live. I was

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Speaker 1: very upset put his left. Yeah, this is this is ridiculous. Okay,

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Speaker 1: funny easter egg. The director stole the Death Star Plans prop,

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Speaker 1: which I think is funny. Some reviews I liked that

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Speaker 1: I wanted to include. George Lucas apparently said he liked

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Speaker 1: this movie better than The Force Awakens, and the director

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Speaker 1: of Rogue One said I can die happy now. David

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00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 1: el Rich at Indy Ryer wrote a spirited but agonizing

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Speaker 1: safe attempt to expand cinema's most holy blackbuster franchise and

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00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: keep the wheels greased between proper installments, just a glorified

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Speaker 1: excuse to rehet com some sense into one of the

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Speaker 1: silliest things about the original. Mostly, I'm just really tickled

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Speaker 1: by this because of everything that came after. Is this

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Speaker 1: like a silly safe How is this safe? Everybody died? Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of funny things about this review in

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Speaker 1: retrospect one of my favorite things. So he's alluding to

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Speaker 1: they made this move V to explain one of the

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00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 1: biggest kind of jokes plot holes. I wouldn't call it

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Speaker 1: a plot hole, but it's just kind of silly that

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Speaker 1: why would they have this like one place or if

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Speaker 1: you shoot a blaster bolt down it, the whole thing

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Speaker 1: blows up. So this was this movie was like, ah,

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Speaker 1: we have your answer and it's so sad. Don't you

383
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: feel terrible about making fun of it now? But wait,

384
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: maybe it's because I didn't know the originals before Rogue One,

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Speaker 1: But I thought that was the whole point of her

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00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: having those plans. She did have plans, No, like I

387
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 1: didn't get those plans that could show the weakness she did.

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Speaker 1: They're saying the weakness is silly, Like as a plot point,

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00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 1: that is very silly that they would have that built in,

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00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 1: Like why would that exist? Oh, so that someone would

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00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: portray the reason they Okay, yeah, that makes sense to me.

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Speaker 1: I always made sense. It was always kind of like

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Speaker 1: maybe a little suspension of disbelief, but also like, yeah,

394
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: it's space. Now, I don't know anything about building spaceships

395
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Speaker 1: for sure. Maybe this thing does lead directly to the

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Speaker 1: corner is going to blow up. I don't know, um,

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00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: but it has been in the Star Wars fandom very

398
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Speaker 1: much joked about, and this movie was kind of like,

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Speaker 1: ah ha, well this is why, and that's so much

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00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: of what Star Wars fandom is. That's what they do. Yeah,

401
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: and I like I could. I've talked before. A lot

402
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: of Star Wars fandom is very toxic. A lot of

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00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 1: it is very like well, actually, um, A lot of

404
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Speaker 1: times it kind of if it's the smaller thing, it

405
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 1: tickles me like I love the kind of like Carrie

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Speaker 1: Fisher has this sort of British accent in the first one,

407
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Speaker 1: or like a strange detached British accents, and they later

408
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: explained it with that's a core accent, which really carry

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00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: Fisher later said, no, it's because I went to school

410
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: in London and that's kind of what I thought Royalty

411
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Speaker 1: would sound like. Exactly, it's not all. They're not wrong, right,

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Speaker 1: Like I never there was never any part of me

413
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Speaker 1: that questioned that, but then a lot of fans did.

414
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Speaker 1: So they wrote in an explanation like they always do this.

415
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: It's like they're embarrassed that we found a plot hole. Um,

416
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: but if it's something huge or like character altering, then

417
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Speaker 1: I don't like it. Then I do not like it.

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Speaker 1: And maybe it's is George Lucas being a bit of

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Speaker 1: a narcissist who just can't be wrong, so he tries

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00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: to correct it. Maybe maybe in this movie, which I

421
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: do love and I don't think, I'm kind of not

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Speaker 1: really talking about this, even though it is part of

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Speaker 1: the culture that made this. Um, George Lucas didn't. He

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Speaker 1: gave up control by this point, but he was sort

425
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: of kind of notories for that. And that's why the

426
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: who shot first with Greto and Han scene has changed

427
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: so much, because well I don't know him, but in

428
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: my in my understanding is because he kept changing his

429
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: mind on like how we interpreted that scene and how

430
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: he thought we should interpret that scene ultimately that he

431
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: wanted you to Originally he kind of was more like Hans,

432
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: a straight up smuggler at this point, and now he

433
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: sort of seems to have come to the point where

434
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,959
Speaker 1: he wants you to believe Han was shooting his self defense.

435
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: So basically what I'm saying is this franchise is Are

436
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 1: we supposed to think that Han is like all the time,

437
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: has always been a good guy or something. Is that

438
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: what we're supposed to believe because he is not. I

439
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: don't think so, But we're supposed to think he's better valiant.

440
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: I think we're just which again, like I literally and

441
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: maybe it says something about me, But I never really

442
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: thought about it that way. Like I just was like, Okay,

443
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: he has this character arc where he comes to care

444
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: about people, But I thought his whole character arg was

445
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: like caring about people but doesn't want to show his

446
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: weakness and he'd rather whatever that means. But I think

447
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: that for whatever reason, George Lucas in that one scene

448
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: as because it's four times which, by the way, I'm

449
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: going to see a new Hope in theaters on Revenge

450
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: of the Fifth May five, and uh, I've heard that

451
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: it's going to cause a lot of drama because no

452
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: one knows what version they're showing. Yeah, immediately, oh I

453
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 1: will know. Oh if they don't have the green text

454
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: in the beginning that I already know, already already know.

455
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: I actually really honestly don't care. I don't think it's

456
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: worth getting that upset about I have my preferred version,

457
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: but whatever, Yes, I know, you know, but that's I mean,

458
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: that's another great example is that he kept coming in

459
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: and like adding these things and trying to change it.

460
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of that was due to

461
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: the fam dialogue that happens around these um So, is

462
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 1: that a good quality of bad quality? Do you think?

463
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: I don't think the examples we have, I don't think

464
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: it's a good quality. I think there are instances where

465
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: it could have been, especially like something is really problematic,

466
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 1: even though they had an example of that book of

467
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: Boba Fett and they just handled it in the very

468
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: worst way I thought, But they didn't. They didn't acknowledge.

469
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: They just were like never might forget that happened. It

470
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: was like that we just totally changed that now, right,

471
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: I remember. So I think there are instances where it

472
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: could be good. Most of the examples we get in

473
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: this fandom, I don't think are that. And I do

474
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: think like there's just a part of me that's like

475
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: let it go, Like it's so the people fans are

476
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: gonna nitpick. A lot of these fans are are the worst.

477
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: Let's just be real. We don't need to cater to them.

478
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: Like it's whatever, just ignore them. It's fine, and we

479
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 1: liked them. It was a fun like fairy tale promp.

480
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: We don't need to explain that I keep this thing

481
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: can sound like I don't like this. I love, to

482
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: be honest, I don't really take it a legitimate leave

483
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: since it wasn't filmed in matter of space. I think

484
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: Samantha's referencing my favorite criticism I think you are that

485
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: I've ever read of Return of the Jedi is clearly

486
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: it was filmed on Earth, and I'm sure was was.

487
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,479
Speaker 1: I get what they're saying, but that's also very ignorant

488
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: because there are desserts on Earth. They filmed that on

489
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: Earth too. It's just you don't live in a desert,

490
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: you don't live in an ice place. Anyway. His fellow

491
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: was very mad about the fact that he thought, I

492
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: guess a forest would never exist in space, and this

493
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: was clearly filmed on Earth. Star Wars fans uh speaking

494
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: of there was a lot of criticism of the digital

495
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: recreations of Tarkan and Leah, which again kind of tickles me,

496
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: given what we're dealing with now, what we're seeing now.

497
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: This was one of the first instances because Carrie Fisher

498
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: did die around this time. The actory played Tarkan had

499
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: been dead for a while where we were there was

500
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: a lot of questions about the ethics of it, because

501
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: she obviously didn't sign a contract that said she didn't

502
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: sign a contract. Was informed knowledge that that was an option,

503
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: that that was a thing like you do sort of

504
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: sign away your likeness a lot of times for these things.

505
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: But this is different than that. This is like recreating you,

506
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: and that's kind of a yeah. As in fact, there's

507
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,479
Speaker 1: been apparently a whole concert show in Las Vegas with

508
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: Whitney Houston really and they've been selling out. So I

509
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: don't know, I haven't dug deeper into it. I didn't

510
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: even know this existed. I knew it's been happened because

511
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: you know, we know Tupac had a performance just but

512
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: it was like one performance. This is whole shows apparently,

513
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: And I don't know who's getting the money. That has

514
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: a lot of questions because our daughter died, um, so

515
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure who gets that who Yeah, uh, yeah,

516
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's a concern that I've had, kind of

517
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: the like monetary aspect, who owns your who owns you?

518
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: And I've seen a lot of YouTube videos about it lately. Well,

519
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: like that's what we're having again. We're kind of I

520
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: will come back, but like jet Lee would not do

521
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: Nitrix because he didn't want his moves recorded to be

522
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: right that way, right, Yeah, and I like that. Yeah,

523
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: we're getting into a whole separate conversation. But one of

524
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,239
Speaker 1: the reasons I really really love the Originals and I

525
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: think they work and there's a lot of the nostalgia involved,

526
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to deny that, but I do

527
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: think like Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill, they brought something

528
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: to it, like personal to it, and it was and

529
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: they I just feel like they gave so much of

530
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: themselves and they were so genuine in those roles and

531
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: they shaped them. And Harrison for did a great job,

532
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: but I think like more so because he kind of

533
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 1: has that whole persona vibe anyway, But they kind of

534
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: like really gave this themselves to it and they didn't

535
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: do too much outside of it. Um that was huge.

536
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: Like they've done a lot of work that they don't

537
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: get a lot of notice for and a lot of

538
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: it's great and they should get more recognition. But that's

539
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: why I think like it's missing, it's missing something, and

540
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: there's that's also on Canny Valley stuff we're talking about,

541
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: but it is a part of this conversation for sure.

542
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: And I heard, I mean, and I heard a lot

543
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: of mixed when this came out. It was really emotional

544
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: because she had just died, but I heard a lot

545
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: of mixed reactions to it. I got emotional too, but

546
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: it was still kind of like whoa, um, and that

547
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: those conversations are obviously playing out right now. Um with

548
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: all the stuff in Mandelorian a bookfet also of interest.

549
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: This movie came out soon after Donald Trump's presidential victory,

550
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: and screenwriter White's tweeted, please note that the Empire is

551
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: a white supremacist human organization. And that's it's been really

552
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: interesting of like a lot of really right leading Republicans

553
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: don't seem to realize like the Empire is bad. Like

554
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: they tweet like the death Star stuff, and I'm like, right,

555
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: everyone was like, dude, you well even the songs Republicans

556
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: used the like that's something that's not what Yeah, No,

557
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: I don't think you're listening to this. Like when they

558
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: started doing Rage against the Machine, You're like literally you're

559
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:37,959
Speaker 1: the machine. It's strange, very strange to me. And you know,

560
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: I have to mention we've been talking a lot about

561
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: fan fandom. I found this whole thing about fan fiction

562
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: this movie, and I wanted to include a quote about

563
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: Star Wars fandom and fans from the New York Times

564
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: after this movie came out. Quote. The dominant cultural image

565
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: of a Star Wars fan maybe a lightsaber wielding fanboy.

566
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: But women have always been essential creators in this span universe.

567
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: They started early and clubs and mailed out fanzines like

568
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: Skywalker and Moonbeam, packed with fiction, essays and art. In

569
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: Pat Knuseman published an essay and the zine Al Dran

570
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: that described a female fandom so rich and vast that

571
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: she was prompted to ask where are the men? She continued,

572
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,919
Speaker 1: Male names are rare, and columns are fancy and order list,

573
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: male faces scarce at media conventions, and the number of

574
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: men writing are drawing or editing, and media fandom so

575
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: minimal as to be practically non existent. So I think

576
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: this is interesting because we've talked about this with the eighties.

577
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: It was very much simplifying the eighties when that's when

578
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: returned the Jedi came out, That's when this essay was

579
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: being written. At that point, Star Wars was very equal

580
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 1: um publicly, but that's when all this gendering of toys

581
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: and stuff happened in Star Wars. Like, as much as

582
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: I love it was very much the sort of thing

583
00:34:55,560 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: that launched toys like movie merchandise that's tired of or

584
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: it's the thing that popularized it and made it huge,

585
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: And so I think we see this sort of flip

586
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: of it being seen as a boys thing, and by

587
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: this point, when Rogue one came out, it's still that's

588
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: still the image, even though I think a lot of

589
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 1: the fandom, especially the kind of the perhaps less seeing fandom,

590
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: is women for sure. All Right, but let's talk about

591
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: some stuff. Let's talk about Jin, the main character, who

592
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: is a character who's not born into politics. She's not

593
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 1: born with the Force, but decides to fight for what

594
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: she sees us right anyway, So this is actually unique.

595
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: When you think about past heroes and heroines in Star Wars,

596
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: they usually have some kind of relation to somebody, or

597
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: they have the Force most likely both all are they

598
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: born into politics. She comes into her own as a

599
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: leader as far as costuming. She wasn't sexualized, and this

600
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 1: was kind of an upsettingly big deal at the time.

601
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: I remember reading a bunch of articles about it, like, well,

602
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, she's wearing boots, she's ready for combat. Um,

603
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: she's wearing situation appropriate clothes. She's wearing like these shades

604
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: of browns and gray. Her hair is in a simple

605
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 1: style too. I mean you maybe you wouldn't be shocked,

606
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: but people wrote so much about it, and I remember

607
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: noticing it. When I saw it, I was like, oh, wow, Okay,

608
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: she's changed. She's competent, she's never really the damsel in distress.

609
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: She's tough, but she's still kind. She saves this little

610
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: girl despite the strong I give no attitude she's trying

611
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: to pull off at first, uh, and she's willing to

612
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,479
Speaker 1: listen and change and lead. She knows how to fight,

613
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: she's strong, she's good weapons. Um. I kind of always

614
00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: hesitate with that stuff because it's like masculine terror a tory,

615
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: and I don't know that it should be lauded, but

616
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: it's also you don't see women doing that often, Like

617
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: she can take care of herself. I guess it's the

618
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: best way to gut it. She's unique in being the

619
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: lead as it's her alone, although some might argue it's

620
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: her and Cassian, but like normally it's like On and

621
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: Leah or Anakin and pat May. They've sort of her right,

622
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 1: yah see, it is just there for the hug. It's

623
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: a damn good hug. I know you hate it, but

624
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: it's so good still. She's pretty much the only woman

625
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: of character of note. Other than some other cameos, only

626
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: of the film's dialogue was spoken by women. Cassian spoke

627
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: more than Jin did. She's kind of like, of course,

628
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: her face was. I was watching it the other day.

629
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, she's always unhappy, and I guess

630
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: it's always unhappy here. Um it does. It was very sad.

631
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: I know it does past the backdel test, but we

632
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: know that is not the end. Ambi all another thing

633
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: we've talked about, and a lot of this, a lot

634
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: of the entertainment that's really popular. A lot of her

635
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: actions are influenced by men, are are precipitated by men,

636
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: So like her dad kind of draws her in and

637
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 1: the Cassie kind of draws her in. Things like that.

638
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: This was the most diverse Star Wars film when it

639
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: came out easily, and many expressed annoyance and concern that

640
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: there were these characters of color, but they were almost

641
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: seen as a footnote and they didn't receive as much

642
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: attention or even merchandise. And lack of women of color

643
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: in substantial roles, and I think we talked about this

644
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: in the Sequelstorm, but almost always the lead role for

645
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: a woman in Star Wars petite, white, brown haired woman

646
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: and very pretty, yeah, but genetically Hollywood things to her.

647
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: But like, I really like she reminds me of someone

648
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: else that I've never seen because I've never seen her

649
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: in another movie, But she reminds me of ABC. Mm hmm.

650
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: This the toys thing, Bridget and I did a whole

651
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: episode on it, and it's really a big deal. Like

652
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: I know, it sounds sort of silly, but they choose things,

653
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: they choose characters and genders about what they think toys

654
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: will sell. And so this whole thing could have been

655
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: in response to what happened with Ray Toys and the

656
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 1: Force Awakens, where there were no Ray Toys. Even though

657
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: she's the main character. It was this huge fiasco. They

658
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: still haven't gotten it great, right. I also seem to

659
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 1: recall a lot of discussion about Cheering and Blaze possibly

660
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: being the first queer couple in Star Wars, but that

661
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: has never been confirmed as far as I know, And

662
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: I remember at the time there was this meme because

663
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: there was an announcement like, We're finally going to have

664
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: the first queer couple in Star Wars, and then it

665
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: was like two characters nobody had ever heard of. Please

666
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: don't yell at me if I'm wrong, but I just

667
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: remember it being we thought it was going to be

668
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: then maybe, and then it was I think it was

669
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: two characters from one of the animated shows. I will say,

670
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: though I know they talked about they love each other,

671
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: but even me in my head, I was like it

672
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: could be platonic and I didn't really grasp all of that,

673
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 1: not that I needed them to make out or anything,

674
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: but it still was like they played it safe. Nonetheless,

675
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 1: did I like their bond, absolutely, but I feel like

676
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: it could have been any real like brotherhood, even like

677
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 1: that's that level that you just don't know. So even

678
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: if they were, I feel like they just said it

679
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: to kind of say it, but they kept it safe

680
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: so that people didn't get mad. At them and them

681
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: being the creators. Yeah. Yeah, And I think like we

682
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: sort of talked about this in Creeerbating the Creerbating episode,

683
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: and it's really a complicated subject. I think we basically

684
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: we just need to normalize queer relationships because I also

685
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: want to see these platonic relationships, Like I want to

686
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: see that too. But that's the thing is like, if

687
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: it's queer, then that's great. But if it's also like

688
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: two men can actually love each other like this and

689
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: it's still be platon Let's normalize that and make that healthy.

690
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: A woman a man can't be friends and love each

691
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: other but not love each other and be platonic. Let's

692
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: normalize that. It doesn't all have to be sexual. Agree,

693
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: I love it. That's totally That's how I feel too.

694
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: Another theme throughout this is definitely father daughter relationships. Daddy

695
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: issues continue. That's big theme and Star Wars big. So

696
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: you have Jen with Galen obviously, but also Saw who

697
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: was sort of her adoptive caretaker for a while and

698
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 1: her really wanting him to be proud of her, which

699
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: is not a problem, it's just kind of something we

700
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: see a lot. Also the death of the mother, which

701
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: is a recurring theme and a lot of our entertainment,

702
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: including Star Wars. Yeah, I was like actually counting it

703
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: the other day and I'm like, oh, yeah, Pad made

704
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: like I was. It is though I know you hate

705
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: it when I bring this up, but I read this

706
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: essay about like, how do you for a kid's movie?

707
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: How do you draw them in? And it's like, immediately

708
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: you have to have the emotional trauma, like the thing,

709
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 1: the loss, just because the kids don't have the attention span.

710
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 1: So I can't decide if I like, if I appreciated

711
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: the death of the mother in this movie because it

712
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: seemed unnecessary, irrational and just out of nowhere, Like is

713
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: it a good thing that she was willing to fight

714
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 1: against them and not be taken in like her father

715
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: who got taken in and instead of you know, fighting

716
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: with her, just let her die or is it is

717
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: it her being just unnecessarily wild and not willing to

718
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: be there for her daughter, like those two conflicts in me.

719
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: But also why right? I mean, I think that that

720
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 1: is a good point, and I think that I've seen

721
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: a lot of these conversations play out where it's hard

722
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: because I'm not a parent, so I can't say, but

723
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: it's a it's a point of a lot to what

724
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: you're talking about. I've seen it also like I don't

725
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 1: want to I love this movie. That doesn't mean that

726
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: they were clearly like trying to have an emotional thing

727
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: and put her on her own and it, you know,

728
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: maybe doesn't make the most sense. But also she'd been

729
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: that traumatized and been stolen by renegades who also abandoned her,

730
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: she would have had a lot more issues. You know

731
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: what we say, you always say this, sorry, but it's true.

732
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 1: Keep going on. Actually had a lot of issues. She

733
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: seemed to go past them pretty quickly. She said she's

734
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,959
Speaker 1: not used to people sticking around when things go bad.

735
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: Another thing I saw pop up a lot was this

736
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: theme of believing women because Gin is the only surviving

737
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: person who saw the message from Galen saying like there

738
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: is this I put in this h flaw on the

739
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: death story. You need to get the plans. And when

740
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: she they talked about it, it's like kind of alliance

741
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: rebellion meeting people don't believe her because she's the only

742
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: one that's hot because she's his daughter. And later when

743
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: she's sort of like I'm going anyway I'll go alone.

744
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 1: All these people come up and support her, and Cassian says,

745
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: I believe you. And then, as I mentioned earlier, toxic masculinity,

746
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: which we talked about a lot in the sequel one

747
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,720
Speaker 1: because the Last Jedi is like a whole study on toxic.

748
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: But so you have all these dudes, You've got Vader,

749
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: you've got tark and you've got Critic basically being really

750
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: petty with each other to get more right, right, And

751
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: I felt like I was watching when they do the

752
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: soap operas with women that it was beautiful. I totally agree.

753
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: And for something we because we hold masculine things about

754
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: feminine things, this is acceptable, but soap proper thing like

755
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: you should be that's a guilty pleasure, right, Well, it's

756
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: acceptable because at least someone dies. You need that action.

757
00:44:53,800 --> 00:45:00,919
Speaker 1: Apparently just being portrayed and crying. Mm hmmm, well yeah,

758
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: I guess you know you're right, You're not wrong. Violence

759
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: some type of like aggressive behavior. Um, and I don't know,

760
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: there's just something about me that gets some joy out

761
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 1: of that. I know it's not good, but this made

762
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: me laugh that they're all kind of like and there's

763
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: some really great Tarken Invader shade that happens. I love

764
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: it because Tarkin knows he's too high for Vader to

765
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 1: kill him, so I really enjoy watching them go at it.

766
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 1: They do that a lot in comics. You can see

767
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: there's some really good, really good exchanges. And then I

768
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: found this interesting. A lot of things, a lot of

769
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: articles I read. We're talking about how this is a

770
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: movie about war and politics or avoiding politics, and the

771
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: timing when it came out was really interesting. Um, picking

772
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: and choosing when to be political, losing sight of things

773
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: in war. So you have Cassie and being like, you know,

774
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: I didn't get to pick and choose when I'm in

775
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 1: the rebellion. I've been in this since I was six.

776
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: We've also got the everyday heroism, so I thought that

777
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: was really interesting. I mean, I can't talk about this.

778
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna it's gonna be open a whole thing. But

779
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: I I thought that was really interesting because you kind

780
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 1: of get to see like all these different people and

781
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: where they're coming from and why, and it's not always pretty,

782
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: I guess, and then hope. You know, it's really dark,

783
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:35,399
Speaker 1: but rebellions are built on hope. She's giving me the

784
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: most unimpressed face. Oh, I do like that she gives

785
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 1: that speech. I like that she kind of steps up.

786
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 1: I don't know because everybody yeah, and then she dies. Yeah,

787
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: they got a good hug out of it, though. You

788
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: know what I'm learning through this. If you your favorite

789
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: fan fiction tag would be everybody lives nobody dies, which

790
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: is a tag. I just need a few. I don't

791
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: need everybody. I need a few people to live. Yeah. Well,

792
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: when I was watching Esty, I was like, well, you know,

793
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: Lea lives, but then she's not on that she's not

794
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: on that planet. And yeah she does, and she doesn't

795
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: have a happy marriage. Nothing is happy. This is why

796
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,439
Speaker 1: you need headcannon. My headcanon is very well oiled. It's

797
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 1: like nothing in the sequels, or maybe some stuff, but

798
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: only the good stuff. Did you talk about Hans the

799
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: Solo movie movie? I like, I do kill off of

800
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: several of my favorite characters, but at least several people live. Yes,

801
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: and also Kira, who's the love interest in that one,

802
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: because she is a badass. She is, she does not

803
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: need to be his love interest. He fights Vader and wins. Yes.

804
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: In a recent comic, isn't that wild? Wow? But yeah,

805
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: it's done. For that, I would love to talk about that.

806
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 1: I can also kind of complain about how John Favril

807
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: has all these voice cameos and things that kind of

808
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:26,760
Speaker 1: a polished me so different characters and Star Wars. I'm sorry.

809
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: At least he's not injecting himself as a person, like

810
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 1: his whole body in his face everywhere. Anyway, I have

811
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: no real problem with him. I just might wait a minute,

812
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 1: you can't be this, but can't I know I have

813
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 1: no power in this. Really wish I did. Maybe one day,

814
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to start a scheme. We

815
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 1: really went off the rails on this one. I like,

816
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 1: I feel like we touched on some real good fitness issues.

817
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 1: We also touched on things that we're just Star Wars

818
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: were like. Anyway, Happy Star Wars Day, May the fourth

819
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 1: be with you. Thanks as always for coming all these

820
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: journeys with me. I know we didn't like it, Samantha,

821
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 1: but whatever, whatever, I feel like it was a good

822
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: We had differing points of view, yes well. As always,

823
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: we would love suggestions for the next movie that we

824
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: should watch. You can email those to us at Stephanie

825
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: da Mom. Stuff that I hurt me dot com. You

826
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at moms to podcast or

827
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: on Instagram. That stuff I Never told you. Thanks as

828
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: always to our super producer, Christina. I'm sorry for screaming

829
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: so much. No she's not, and thanks to you for

830
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: listening stuff I never told you. His protection. If I

831
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 1: Heart radio from more podcasts from I Hear Radio, visit

832
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: her radio app Apple podcast or if you listen to

833
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: pavide Ship