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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast am on iHeartRadio, and.

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Speaker 2: We are back with doctor Jonathan Ellerbee. The seven Gateways

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Speaker 2: of Spiritual Experience, awakening to a deeper knowledge of love, life,

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Speaker 2: balance and God. One of the gateways we were touching

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Speaker 2: on earlier, and that was spiritual experience. You mentioned one

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Speaker 2: that you had. I mentioned seeing my soul body earlier

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Speaker 2: on the show. During my monologue, I talked about this

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Speaker 2: vision that popped into my head out of nowhere, out

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Speaker 2: of food basics, of all plays, grocery shopping, an old

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Speaker 2: high school teacher I hadn't thought about in years. The

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Speaker 2: next day, I get a message from my sister, who

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Speaker 2: also attended the same high school, telling me that mister Gibson,

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Speaker 2: the history teacher, had passed away suddenly. So that's one

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Speaker 2: of the seven gateways spiritual experiences. You know, I'm not

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Speaker 2: to treat this like a laundry list, but you want

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Speaker 2: to come? Do you want to the other six? And

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Speaker 2: how we sort of integrate these experiences into our lives?

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Speaker 3: Sure? Well, why don't we start by just doing the rundowns.

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Speaker 3: It's like the old David Letterman Top ten list. There

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Speaker 3: we go, and then you can pick away at it

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Speaker 3: as you like. So they're organized from really what I

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Speaker 3: would consider to be the most common to the most rare.

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Speaker 3: And yet people shouldn't misunderstand when you hear these things,

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Speaker 3: there's no value placed on any of them in the

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Speaker 3: sense then one isn't better than the other. Because what

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Speaker 3: we notice is that people seem to have natural aptitudes

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Speaker 3: for certain types of spiritual experiences more than others. That

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Speaker 3: might be interesting to know. And often what people do

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Speaker 3: is they'll compare themselves. Well, I always get to see

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Speaker 3: this stuff, but I don't get to see that stuff,

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Speaker 3: And we need to kind of like let go of

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Speaker 3: all this judgment and control and just be grateful for

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Speaker 3: however we get it. So the first one I call

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Speaker 3: SET or spiritual experience type, right, So this is SET one,

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Speaker 3: and it's truth and beauty. And these are simply AHA

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Speaker 3: moments in the middle of an ordinary day in an

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Speaker 3: ordinary setting where somehow the present moment opens up to

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Speaker 3: an extraordinary almost you might say, magical or super enriched

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Speaker 3: experience of our senses and whatever may be happening at

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Speaker 3: the time. So this is present moment awareness, mindfulness based

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Speaker 3: and it's just when something that's a regular moment turns

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Speaker 3: into a shining moment of peace. And the funny thing

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Speaker 3: about this one, and I won't talk too much about

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Speaker 3: each of them, but just enough to give people a sense.

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Speaker 3: You could just be having your morning cast and one

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Speaker 3: day you walk to the window and a bird that

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Speaker 3: you've never seen before lands in your yard or on

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Speaker 3: your what ever balcony, and for some reason today, in

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Speaker 3: this moment, no explanation, it takes your breath away. You

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Speaker 3: are worried about taxes and bills gone, you were stressed

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Speaker 3: about your relationship gone. In one shining moment, you remember

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Speaker 3: that life is beautiful, that there are extraordinary things happening

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Speaker 3: all around us all the time, and we're just left

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Speaker 3: with this feeling of gratitude and wonder. The second set

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Speaker 3: business spiritual experience type is ordinary magic. Now, these also

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Speaker 3: happen in ordinary settings, but it's when something extraordinary occurs

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Speaker 3: in those ordinary settings. So these are things like extreme synchronicities, miracles, right,

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Speaker 3: unusual healings. And it's called ordinary because someone might say, miracle,

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Speaker 3: how's that ordinary, But it means it's happening in the

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Speaker 3: ordinary realm. So someone goes into the hospital they're never

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Speaker 3: supposed to come out, and they do. You know, you

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Speaker 3: know these stories. We hear a mothers in a car

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Speaker 3: accident with her child. The child's trapped into the car,

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Speaker 3: and unexplainably, the woman who lifts the car off her child.

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Speaker 3: No science can explain how she had the strength. But

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Speaker 3: it's a car, and it's a kid, and it's a woman.

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Speaker 3: It's an ordinary setting, but it's magical. That's the second set.

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Speaker 3: The third set we've talked about. That's the spirit world.

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Speaker 3: But for me, this is a big category. This is

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Speaker 3: everything in the paranormal. And I even include religious phenomena,

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Speaker 3: so deities, divine characters, life beings, angels, ancestors, all that stuff.

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Speaker 3: If it's a being that has an energetic, full but

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Speaker 3: no material body, that's spirit world. Divine energy, which is

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Speaker 3: often associated with energy healing, energy work, but also psychedelic experience.

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Speaker 3: The experience of divine energy is where we begin to

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Speaker 3: depart the conventional world of form. So now there's not beings,

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Speaker 3: there's no ghosts, there's no we lose, We're not in

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Speaker 3: the ordinary realm at all.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: Divine energy is an experience in which we perceive directly

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Speaker 3: the energy dimensions of our reality of consciousness, and this

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Speaker 3: might be perceiving the quantum or sub quantum realm. This

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Speaker 3: might be feeling projected into extreme astronomical realms. So we're

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Speaker 3: out into the cosmos. There's a variety of experiences here,

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Speaker 3: but we're typically experiencing fields of energy and light, color, vibration.

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Speaker 3: Often this experience is accompanied by exceptional sound experiences. So

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Speaker 3: that's that one, and then we move on to set.

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Speaker 3: What are we on Set five is the cosmic self,

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Speaker 3: and that's when we have an experience in which we

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Speaker 3: retain consciousness and feel that we are in ourself, but

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Speaker 3: we are not in our body. So out of body

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Speaker 3: experiences fall into this category. Near death experiences fall into

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Speaker 3: this category, although many experiences cross levels. Any experience where

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Speaker 3: again maybe it's a dream, a lucid dream and you're flying,

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Speaker 3: or you have a healing ability, or you meet someone

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Speaker 3: and then they're real in real life, this is the

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Speaker 3: cosmic self. The last two are really where we move

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Speaker 3: into what traditional academics talk about when they talk about

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Speaker 3: mysticism and the mystics. Now, in the modern world, people

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Speaker 3: use the word mystical sometimes for all of these things.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes people use the word mystical just to diminish something

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Speaker 3: and say, oh, that's a mystical sort of like wu

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Speaker 3: Wu experience. But mystical is a very distinct category of

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Speaker 3: human perception. And what's common to the mystical experiences is

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Speaker 3: it's a feeling of direct connection or perception of the

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Speaker 3: ultimate nature of reality. So in set sixth formless Spirit,

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Speaker 3: we feel the presence of this ultimate reality, which some

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Speaker 3: will call God, some will call consciousness, some will call spirit,

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Speaker 3: and they understand in that moment vividly that it is

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Speaker 3: in the world and beyond it is more than the world.

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Speaker 3: The final set Pure Consciousness is somewhat the most contested

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Speaker 3: and debated in scholastics because it's so hard to understand

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Speaker 3: despite the fact that the records are so consistent around

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Speaker 3: the world, in the moment of the pure consciousness experience,

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Speaker 3: there is actually no content to the experience. It's the

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Speaker 3: ultimate merging of self with ultimate consciousness. So there's nothing

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Speaker 3: to observe because you become one with that which you

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Speaker 3: are observing. So typically what happens is people feel, and

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Speaker 3: I write about my own experience in the book Spiritual Experience,

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Speaker 3: people feel a kind of dissolving of self, and then

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Speaker 3: there is this spacious moment in which time dissolves, space dissolves,

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Speaker 3: self dissolves, and most of the wisdom we bring out

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Speaker 3: of it comes afterwards, when we in some ways reintegrate

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Speaker 3: into our form and into our modern self, and the

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Speaker 3: insights unfold over time. However, the one thing I'll say

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Speaker 3: to wrap it up is that what all of these

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Speaker 3: have in common is they feel more real than everyday life,

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Speaker 3: and they leave us with the sense that we have

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Speaker 3: glimpsed the way things really are.

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Speaker 2: Jumping to number seven for a moment pure consciousness, it

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Speaker 2: reminds me. I had an opportunity to speak with I

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Speaker 2: believe this is going back years ago at UCLA Hospital.

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Speaker 2: I think it was at Harvard anyway. It was doctor

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Speaker 2: Cheryl's grobe, and he was experimenting with the use of

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Speaker 2: psilocybin like a synthesized magic mushrooms to ease end of

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Speaker 2: life anxiety. And I spoke with some of the patients

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Speaker 2: and they talked about this experience of while they were

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Speaker 2: on psilocybin, the total erasure of ego. One described they

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Speaker 2: were standing on a boat in the middle of the ocean.

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Speaker 2: First the ocean disappeared, then the boat disappeared, and then

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Speaker 2: they disappeared. And I thought to myself, I don't know

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Speaker 2: if I can handle that. That would be if you're

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Speaker 2: not prepared, that would be incredibly scary for your ego

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Speaker 2: to be just gone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So listen, you brought up something very uh, I think,

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Speaker 3: very honest and and and and a real uh. It

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Speaker 3: raises a real dimension of how we can embrace these

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Speaker 3: things and why we sometimes don't. I will tell you that,

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Speaker 3: even particularly for the last four to find energy, cosmic self,

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Speaker 3: formless spirit, pure consciousness, there is absolutely an unquestionable dissolving

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Speaker 3: of the familiar sense of self and reality. And that

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Speaker 3: is scary. It requires, I would say, some some self discipline,

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Speaker 3: some practice, so so people can prepare for these things

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Speaker 3: by knowing they exist, so that when it happens it

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Speaker 3: doesn't freak you out. They can prepare for these things

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Speaker 3: by meditating, using guided imagery, accessing similar states through the imagination.

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Speaker 3: But that description you just shared is exactly like my

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Speaker 3: own experience. And I will tell you that there are moments,

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Speaker 3: I believe where people do approach this and it starts

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Speaker 3: to get so weird that they quite literally shake their

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Speaker 3: heads and say, I don't know what's going on, but

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Speaker 3: I got to get out of here. And I'll bet

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Speaker 3: you that there are many listeners right now who are

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Speaker 3: at a wild party one night and it was too

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Speaker 3: much whatever alcohol, lsds, you know, mushrooms, plot and they

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Speaker 3: left the party and they flop down on the grass

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Speaker 3: in a quiet neighbor's yard or in a nearby park,

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Speaker 3: and the party faded away, and they looked up into

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Speaker 3: the night sky and all of a sudden, all that

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Speaker 3: chaos of their life and the social tension and all

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Speaker 3: the crap that they were around dissolved, and they felt

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Speaker 3: the beauty of the world. They felt the ground beneath

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Speaker 3: them merging with them. They felt the trees beginning to

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Speaker 3: blend together. They felt the whole world starting to become one.

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Speaker 3: And then some people kept going, and others said, what

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Speaker 3: the hell's happening? And they rolled over and they crabbed

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Speaker 3: their phone or they called their friend or they you know, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it gets weird, It gets very weird.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned special people have special attitudes for one experience

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Speaker 2: over another. Is there do you think a physiological reason

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Speaker 2: for that? So, for example, I don't know if there's

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Speaker 2: been any studies, you know, where maybe we take an

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Speaker 2: image of someone'syple campus because they've had, you know, repeated

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Speaker 2: experiences with astral travel versus someone else who who sees

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Speaker 2: light beings versus someone else who's had you know, repeated

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Speaker 2: I don't know, abductions or close encounters.

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Speaker 3: Let's say, so this is a phenomenal question, and it

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Speaker 3: actually gives me a chance to share something with your

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Speaker 3: listeners that's pretty exciting and maybe somebody listening can help.

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Speaker 3: So the answer is yes and no. So what we've

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Speaker 3: seen is a lot of neuroscience done generically on spiritual experiences,

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Speaker 3: meaning you know, MRIs or cat scans or brain caps

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Speaker 3: put on people while meditating or while experiencing psychedelic experiences

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Speaker 3: or while having some of these seven types of experiences.

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Speaker 3: And what they're usually looking for is, you know, where's

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Speaker 3: the activity in the brain. Are there consistent correlates different

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Speaker 3: types of experiences, different areas of the brain. So yes,

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Speaker 3: generally speaking, there is some mapping of where spiritual experiences

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Speaker 3: are active in the brain. However, two important things and

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Speaker 3: then the opportunity. So first of all, and Andrew Neuberg

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Speaker 3: is a great popular scientist who's done a lot of

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Speaker 3: work on this type of brain study and brain research,

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Speaker 3: and what he says, like most of the responsible physicians

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Speaker 3: and scientists doing this work, is that while they can

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Speaker 3: show where spiritual experiences are showing up in the brain,

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Speaker 3: and they can correlate different parts of the brain to

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Speaker 3: different experiences, there's still no conclusive proof that the brain

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Speaker 3: is creating the experience. Because that's what a lot of

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Speaker 3: people are hoping that they can just dismiss all this stuff.

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Speaker 3: But here's the next step, and this is where you've

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Speaker 3: asked something very very I think very clever and important,

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Speaker 3: which is because people have different brains, there are different

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Speaker 3: brain shapes and different brain types, and since spiritual experiences

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Speaker 3: show up in different parts of the brain, can someone

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Speaker 3: have an aptitude. We haven't seen much research beyond speculation

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Speaker 3: into this at all. However, I have been invited to

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Speaker 3: participate in right now I'm going to keep it a

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Speaker 3: bit generic, but to work with an Ivy League medical

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Speaker 3: school to study neuro divergence and spiritual experience. So we

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Speaker 3: have the chance, Richard, to actually study the brain scans

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Speaker 3: of distinct brain types and then do exhaustive inventories of

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Speaker 3: the types of experiences these people are having. Hope is

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Speaker 3: to see if there are just the way we can

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Speaker 3: see musical aptitude, you know, musical brains and sports brains,

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Speaker 3: and you know eloquent linguistic brains. Can we see spiritual savants?

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Speaker 3: Can we see spiritual genius? Now, the catch is this

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Speaker 3: Harvard I almost said the name of the school, this

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Speaker 3: IVY League, this IVY League institution. Who doesn't they fund

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Speaker 3: the institute that will handle the research, But they don't

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Speaker 3: handle the funding of the research. So if anyone wants

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Speaker 3: to see this research done and they know someone who

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Speaker 3: can make it happen, that they should contact me, because

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Speaker 3: there's an incredible university ready to break around and show

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Speaker 3: that consciousness and spirituality are are not just available to everyone,

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Speaker 3: but they are innate to our reality. It's not whether

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Speaker 3: you believe in it or not. Okay, As you explore

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Speaker 3: in so many of the shows that you have here

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Speaker 3: on Coast to Coast, spiritual experiences are revealing dimensions of reality,

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Speaker 3: not creating them, not imagining them, revealing them. And we

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Speaker 3: believe this research could go a long way to prove that.

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