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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of Iheartrading.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul, Mission Control decand most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 3: And that makes this the stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 3: to know, Folks. This may be the beginning of an

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Speaker 3: ongoing series and ongoing journey. We're looking at mysterious inventors,

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Speaker 3: their claims, the allegations of conspiracy surrounding them, and maybe

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Speaker 3: taking a crack of what happened to a few of them.

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Speaker 3: At the end, we'd love to hear from you. We

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Speaker 3: are only going to get to a few today, which

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Speaker 3: is why we'll need to do more episodes in the future.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk a little bit about invention. It's like the

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Speaker 3: human superpower. Here are the facts.

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Speaker 4: Humans, it turns out, are not the only animals that

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Speaker 4: use tools. It's something that exists in the proper animal kingdom. Otters, crows, elephants,

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Speaker 4: for example, dolphins, All of these creatures. These crafty creatures

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Speaker 4: have the ability to use parts of their environment in

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Speaker 4: ways that assist them in their daily lives, in completing tasks,

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Speaker 4: and oftentimes will spontaneously attempt to make tools to.

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Speaker 3: Solve a problem in the while.

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Speaker 4: Think of an elephant perhaps gripping a stick with its

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Speaker 4: trunk to you know, gouge out a hole of some kind,

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Speaker 4: or to you know, move something around, you know.

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Speaker 3: To extend its reach of fence. Right, that's going around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But we've seen octopuses do some weird stuff

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Speaker 2: with stuff right for their own purpose that we can't

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Speaker 2: yet really fully understand. But can we get an idea like, oh,

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Speaker 2: maybe that was the goal there. But humans are the

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Speaker 2: ones that have an idea like that, Right, use a

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Speaker 2: stick for something? You go, well, what if this stick

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Speaker 2: was attached to this other thing? Well what if that

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Speaker 2: was attached to this you know, creating a sophisticated tool,

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Speaker 2: and you know, all the way up to creating the

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Speaker 2: phone that you're listening to this.

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Speaker 3: On, or you know. Yeah, I think in thematic terms,

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Speaker 3: at some point it's like what if I make a

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Speaker 3: stick large enough to smack the planet? Classic human? I

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Speaker 3: think there's even there are multiple Simpsons references and stuff

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Speaker 3: like that. It's true, right, the human drive for invention

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Speaker 3: is so ubiquitous and so natural that if you're listening

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Speaker 3: and you are human this evening, then you probably have

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Speaker 3: some sort of invention rattling around in the back of

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Speaker 3: your mind. And it happens so often. We've talked about

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Speaker 3: this in the past, that humans independently will often create

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Speaker 3: similar things near simultaneously, Like how many people invented the typewriter?

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Speaker 3: A bunch of people did. I only know about that

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Speaker 3: because when I went to the Mark Twain house, the

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Speaker 3: guide took particular pleasure and shouten Freud in saying Mark

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Speaker 3: Twain was terrible with money. He invested in the wrong

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Speaker 3: form of typewriter.

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Speaker 2: Dude, Well, some people invented typewriters and built factories to

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Speaker 2: build their to build their own typewriters that never went anywhere,

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Speaker 2: but they still made enough money within that time period,

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Speaker 2: that short time period to buy an island. I'm just

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Speaker 2: thinking you want in particular, But it's just it's crazy

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Speaker 2: to think that inventing something, if you do it right,

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Speaker 2: even if it's just short lived, it can be insanely lucrative.

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Speaker 3: MM yeah, agreed. Even if the invention itself doesn't pan

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Speaker 3: out in its initial application, right, there's still sometimes there's

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Speaker 3: a heist about it. It depends on the motivations of

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Speaker 3: the inventor. And I mean, look, there's also this thing

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Speaker 3: that I think we continually returned to, which is that

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Speaker 3: humans are very good at inventing things and also very

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Speaker 3: very good at losing things. So something maybe invented some

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Speaker 3: sort of technique like Damascus steel or what have you

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Speaker 3: in the past, or Greek fire, and you might forget

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Speaker 3: about it as a civilization for hundreds or thousands of years.

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Speaker 3: Then you reinvent it later. Like I think people just

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Speaker 3: recently figured out how some Greco Roman communities made really

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Speaker 3: good cement or concrete.

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Speaker 2: We made a video on Damascus steel, and I think

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Speaker 2: I can't remember we talked about that form of concrete

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Speaker 2: or not.

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Speaker 3: We talked about the Bagdad battery, that's for sure. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and it Yeah, it's ah man, it's so cool. These

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Speaker 3: things sometimes get called anachronistic inventions because later researchers will say, well,

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Speaker 3: why does this anti Cathera mechanism exist in this time period,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, and sort of like as though it were

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Speaker 3: unstuck in time, or at the very least a super

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Speaker 3: prescient thinker is behind it, and maybe there wasn't even

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Speaker 3: a proper application for it at the time, but then

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Speaker 3: later it sort of comes back around to a time

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Speaker 3: where it's necessity becomes clearer. There's a great Mitchell and

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Speaker 3: Web sketch about Leonardo da Vinci. I don't want to

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Speaker 3: spoil it, but everybody check out that show. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's true though, too. Like we like to think of

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Speaker 3: inventors as a single person making some great arriving at

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Speaker 3: some great epiphany, but often they're improving upon previously existing ideas,

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Speaker 3: and for the big inventions, some of the early real

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Speaker 3: world changing and shaking stuff, we're never going to know

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Speaker 3: who invented or discovered it. It's going to be mysterious.

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Speaker 3: It might as well be mythical, like who was the

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Speaker 3: first person who looked at fire and was like, I

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Speaker 3: should take that into where I live in a way

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Speaker 3: that doesn't burn everything down. Well, it's like a puzzle piece,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you can't necessarily claim to be the first

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Speaker 4: one that ever solved a puzzle, you know, because there's

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Speaker 4: a certain intuition behind it. And that can happen among

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Speaker 4: multiple parties that have never met each other before. I

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Speaker 4: believe it's called parallel thinking and a lot of these

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Speaker 4: very quintessential, kind of intuitive uses of environment. That environment

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Speaker 4: was present everywhere, and all it took was someone to

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Speaker 4: kind of poke the right thing or make the right

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Speaker 4: little stumble and accidentally figure out that you could strike

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Speaker 4: these surfaces together and create sparks.

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Speaker 3: So it's right, It is nearly.

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Speaker 4: Impossible, and oftentimes when you get into more specific kind

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Speaker 4: of inventions, it becomes the source of a lot of

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Speaker 4: debate and litigation.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm. It was Brongthar, by the way, she was

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Speaker 2: the first pyromancer. She figuredured out the whole fire.

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Speaker 3: Thing in her area. I was thinking about, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: to that point, let's say a wildfire sweeps through an area,

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Speaker 3: Like how did humans learn to cook? Did a wildfire

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Speaker 3: sweep through an area? Someone finds a dead animal and

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Speaker 3: they're like, wow, this is pretty crispy actually, and they

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Speaker 3: invent the word crispy, and then it's off to the

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Speaker 3: races and now we have Michelin stars. But it's true

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Speaker 3: too about the idea of where who can be ascribed

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Speaker 3: as the inventor like Archimedes screw. We've talked about a

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Speaker 3: little bit. Uh, this is still a common myth. Archimedes

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Speaker 3: didn't invent that, or if he did, he wasn't the

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Speaker 3: first person. It's like, who's the first person who figured

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Speaker 3: out to be quite crass, you should wipe your butt

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Speaker 3: after you defecate. It was a crapper guy, Thomas crapper.

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Speaker 4: But that's of debate right right the toilet because it's

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Speaker 4: the better story. And Archimedes invented so much other stuff.

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Speaker 4: He was the biggest name. He gets lumped in with

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Speaker 4: a lot of stuff that he I mean, not even

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Speaker 4: a diss on him, like he was just grabbing on

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Speaker 4: everyone's ideas. It's just more the way history likes to

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Speaker 4: put a little bow on everything.

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Speaker 3: You know, we love a brand, we love a franchise,

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Speaker 3: Shout out cosmics. You know, he probably did dig the

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Speaker 3: concept of the screw, the water moving device, but he

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Speaker 3: certainly wasn't the first person to invent it. That's why

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Speaker 3: we're saying all this to give you the background, folks.

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Speaker 3: Invention itself is an inherently mysterious pursuit, even if all

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Speaker 3: the research is transparent. The problem itself. What you're attempting

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Speaker 3: to solve is a mystery, and this becomes dangerous. We'll

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Speaker 3: probably get into scientists, I hope in a future episode,

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Speaker 3: but we've talked about this. Governments and other organizations have

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Speaker 3: close eyes on recent search and invention in certain genres,

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Speaker 3: and as we're recording right now, there are hundreds of people,

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Speaker 3: this is not hyperbole, hundreds of people in the United

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Speaker 3: States who invented something that Uncle Sam took control of

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Speaker 3: and they cannot legally speak about it for the rest

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Speaker 3: of their lives.

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Speaker 2: Dude, Ken, I kind of just bring up one thing

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Speaker 2: that we found in the research here. There's a fascinating

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Speaker 2: story of a scientist who I think in nineteen eighty three,

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Speaker 2: moved to Huntsville, Alabama, started working with the university there,

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Speaker 2: and was working specifically on anti gravity technology. And this

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Speaker 2: is early like anti gravity isn't maybe the right word,

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Speaker 2: gravitational field manipulation technology in the eighties, and she was

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Speaker 2: working on it, getting grants, publishing papers on the stuff

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Speaker 2: having it has to do with superconductors way back then

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Speaker 2: about how to like just manipulate fields of gravity. Then

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Speaker 2: she kind of falls off the radar, not publishing anything,

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Speaker 2: and it's when she gets I think it's a DoD

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Speaker 2: contract to begin, she like, she left the university, started

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Speaker 2: her own business to try and monetize this tech that

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Speaker 2: she wanted to build, right the DD came in and

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Speaker 2: then nobody has heard from her in a long time.

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Speaker 2: It's an ongoing mystery that you can check out right now.

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Speaker 2: There's a great YouTube video from Barely Sociable about it

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Speaker 2: from like twenty twenty one. But anyway, it's weird because

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Speaker 2: she's alive. She seems to be fine, but she can't

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Speaker 2: talk about what she's doing because now it's for the government.

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Speaker 3: And what's the name of the scientist for.

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Speaker 2: Nam Lee nig dash l I.

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Speaker 3: That's quite a long time to be off the grid,

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Speaker 3: isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm? Though the last communications were like the early

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Speaker 2: two thousands.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure she talks with her handler on a semi

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Speaker 3: regular basis. Right, So we're talking about things like the

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Speaker 3: Invention Secrecy Act of nineteen teen fifty one. Check out

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Speaker 3: our episode on that. And the question is, like, this

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Speaker 3: is something doctor Lee is probably wondering as well. What

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Speaker 3: happens if you're one of these inventors, let's say you

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Speaker 3: because you don't know what your end result will be.

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Speaker 3: When you start experimenting, you can aim toward things. But then,

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Speaker 3: just like the guy who invented the microwave, you get

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Speaker 3: in situations and then you're onto something totally different. I mean,

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Speaker 3: like you could start working on something innocuous, like the furrito,

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Speaker 3: which is this brilliant combination or I should say, quite

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Speaker 3: ambitious combination of fa broth in the typical burrito. Now,

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Speaker 3: some people say it can't be done.

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Speaker 2: You got to thicken that thing up, right, I've.

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Speaker 3: Got a lot of stuff going on.

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Speaker 4: You a soup sandwich.

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Speaker 3: Oh right, I wanted to save this one. I wanted

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Speaker 3: to save furrito for this, but because I was thinking

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Speaker 3: the same thing all the soup sandwich. But but yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm onto stuff. But what if that accidentally leads like

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Speaker 3: this innocuous research initially, What if it leads to something

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Speaker 3: that all of a sudden would be world changing.

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Speaker 4: It happens all the time. You know, what was it

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Speaker 4: the chocolate bar melting in the pocket? You know that

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Speaker 4: was a total accident that basically led to the invention

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Speaker 4: of the microwave. And then the microwave is sort of

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Speaker 4: obviously there's a very you know, home friendly use of that.

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Speaker 4: But then the technology has applications well beyond that, like

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Speaker 4: you know, in terms of radiation studying radiation and how

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Speaker 4: you know, how it interacts on the body, and there's

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Speaker 4: all kinds of other uses of microwave microwave technology, you know,

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Speaker 4: for military applications.

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Speaker 3: Percy Spencer shout out, Ben.

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Speaker 2: Look, I'm going to say this really quietly, and I'm

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Speaker 2: so sorry. Fu Heata.

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Speaker 3: All right, no judgment, there's no judgment in brainstorming. Uh Fucksidilla?

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Speaker 3: All right, well, fuck you, Sadilla. We've got ways to go,

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Speaker 3: you know. But what happens if you are one of

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Speaker 3: those inventors? We tell you again, without hyperbole, fellow conspiracy realist,

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Speaker 3: this is but one of what will probably be a

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Speaker 3: recurring series because, as it turns out, there are many,

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Speaker 3: many inventors who have a lot of mystery surrounding their invention,

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Speaker 3: and some of them may have died as a result.

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Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. Just cars, even just to

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Speaker 3: the world of cars. It's nuts. Like when you think

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Speaker 3: of someone who invents, you know, the catalytic converter, or

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Speaker 3: when you think of, you know, the guys working at Mercedes,

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Speaker 3: Benz and stuff. You don't usually think of a lot

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Speaker 3: of intrigue, right like what if?

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Speaker 2: What if it could have twelve v's arrest this man.

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Speaker 3: There's too many v's, you know. We talked like Stanley

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Speaker 3: Meyer allegedly invented a water fuel cell and he it's

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Speaker 3: been dismissed as a perpetual motion machine. But of course

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Speaker 3: there are tons and tons of different theories about how

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Speaker 3: that went down. There's a guy, Tom Ogle who will

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Speaker 3: talk about who unfortunately, well we'll get to him. But

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Speaker 3: maybe we start, just for an example, the case we're

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Speaker 3: laying out for these future episodes, maybe we start with

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Speaker 3: Rudolph Diesel. You guys can tell I've got a little

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Speaker 3: bit of a horse in the race or a little

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Speaker 3: bit of piston in the machine, because my name for

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Speaker 3: today's recording is hashtag Justice for.

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Speaker 4: Diesel, which is kind of very techno, kind of banger

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Speaker 4: of a name.

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Speaker 3: I love that.

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Speaker 4: So, what's the deal with Diesel, this guy who invented

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Speaker 4: the diesel engine? And why is his case so kind

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Speaker 4: of shrouded in mystery. It's not as so he invented

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Speaker 4: a weapon of mass destruction. I mean, you know, diesel

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Speaker 4: is a fuel. It is something that promotes you know,

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Speaker 4: commerce and productivity. Obviously, a lot of large vehicles that

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Speaker 4: that you know, help ship and receive all of the

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Speaker 4: goods and stuff that we rely on that they use diesel,

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Speaker 4: So that's a big deal. So he's definitely kind of

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Speaker 4: a captain of industry in that respect, not as though

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Speaker 4: he invented some sort of world annihilating you know, bomb

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Speaker 4: of some kind. So his name Rudolph Christian Carl Diesel,

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Speaker 4: which isn't the longest name we're going to have.

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Speaker 3: In this Evening's episodes.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, not by a long shot, and I look

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Speaker 4: forward to the next one, which is one for the books.

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Speaker 4: But he was born on March eighteenth, eighteen fifty eight

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Speaker 4: in Paris. He wanted to be an engineer since he

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Speaker 4: was a very small German boy living in Paris.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and what so that's when was he born.

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Speaker 3: Eighteen fifty eight?

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Speaker 2: It's fifty eight and then the first engine officially is

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Speaker 2: like thirty a little less than thirty years later, is

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Speaker 2: that correct?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's around thirties. So like he's in his

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Speaker 3: mid thirties by the eighteen nineties, and he's super deep

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Speaker 3: into fuel and engine efficiency experiments in particular, and he

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Speaker 3: has a couple of patents and he's got one in

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Speaker 3: eighteen ninety two, I think. And then he goes back

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Speaker 3: and corrects himself because he's figuring out his theory. He's

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Speaker 3: cooking live and he doesn't really invent the concept of

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Speaker 3: this engine, but he makes it viable, right. He vastly

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Speaker 3: improves it such that it works, and that's why they

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Speaker 3: call it the diesel engine. Now you can see the

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Speaker 3: first diesel engine that was ever successfully tested over in

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Speaker 3: Munich today it burst in creativity. It's called the Motor

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Speaker 3: two fifty four hundred. He does that in eighteen ninety seven.

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Speaker 3: So like to your point, Matt, yeah, he's he's in

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Speaker 3: his thirties, he's still a young lad.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, well, I guess what I mean is the

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Speaker 2: first car engine that was ever developed by Mercedes Benz

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Speaker 2: is eighteen eighty five. So it's interesting that he's I'm

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Speaker 2: certain he's aware of that as a thing, right, the

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Speaker 2: views of that invention has come across. So he's do

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Speaker 2: you guys ever think of the word tinkerer like you

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Speaker 2: would take an engine like that and you just make

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Speaker 2: small adjustments. See what happens, and then okay, well what

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Speaker 2: if this occurred, What if we switch this piece out

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Speaker 2: right and then add another piece in between these two

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Speaker 2: major functioning parts. It's just really interesting. And that's the

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Speaker 2: way I'm maybe picturing this this person.

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Speaker 3: I think you're absolutely right, dude, because we also we

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Speaker 3: have to remember that in this context, yes, motors exist,

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Speaker 3: steamship steam engines exist, they're all woefully cartoonishly inefficient, especially

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Speaker 3: compared to modern standards. So the diesel engine is revolutionary,

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Speaker 3: and it clearly anybody worth their salt in any number

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Speaker 3: of industries, they clearly know this can apply to them

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Speaker 3: and it could change the game. And so by nineteen twelve,

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Speaker 3: there are more than seventy thousand diesel engines all around

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Speaker 3: the world. Mostly they're working for in generators or they're

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Speaker 3: working in factories. Business is super good. And if you

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Speaker 3: are anybody but Rudolph Diesel and you hear about his

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Speaker 3: life and his invention, you think this guy is basically

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Speaker 3: Jeff Bezos, you know, or like Dean Kyman level. You

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Speaker 3: think he is super super duper wealthy. You think that

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Speaker 3: he has no no issues other than making time to

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Speaker 3: sign all those autographs and checks but uh.

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Speaker 2: Way are we saying he wasn't what he was? Probably

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Speaker 2: crazy wealthy, right.

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Speaker 3: Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So let's fast forward. It's nineteen thirteen September twenty ninth.

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Speaker 3: Our boy Rudy is going on a trip. That's right.

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Speaker 4: Diesel gets on a ship, the s S. Dresden and

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Speaker 4: Antwerp on his way to meet a group called the

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Speaker 4: Consolidated Diesel Manufacturing Company in London. And while he's kicking

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Speaker 4: it with these folks, they attend a groundbreaking of a

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Speaker 4: new diesel engine plant and he has another little errand

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Speaker 4: to ron. While he's out there, Diesel is going to

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Speaker 4: meet with members representatives of the British Navy and talk

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Speaker 4: about installing his engines in their submarines.

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Speaker 2: Hold up, pull up. So this is fascinating to me.

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Speaker 2: Where the manufacturing plant we're talking about here is actually

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Speaker 2: building the engines themselves, right, This isn't a plant that

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Speaker 2: is using the engines, it's creating them, right, yes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And they have an annual meeting, so that

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Speaker 3: is there's nothing sketchy about that. That's just good pr Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But still he's got a huge manufacturing engine that's building engines, right,

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Speaker 2: and then uh, he's meeting with the Navy, which could

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Speaker 2: be not only lucrative, but like you just think about that,

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Speaker 2: even that just that first handshake deal. I well, let's develop,

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Speaker 2: let's let's work together. We like you Diesel, let's see

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Speaker 2: what you can do for our sums.

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Speaker 3: We like the we like the cut of your jib,

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Speaker 3: we like the pumpy your fuel which sounds weirdly like

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Speaker 3: in your window. And maybe there was some at play,

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Speaker 3: but he so, like you said, he's he's talking with

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Speaker 3: the he's talking with this private industry, uh congloberate basically,

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Speaker 3: and they are going or consortium, I should say, and

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Speaker 3: this is going to be really good for business. This

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Speaker 3: is also really good pr for them. But he has

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Speaker 3: he as a guy with German roots, is also very

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Speaker 3: well aware that Germans marines are already using diesel engines.

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Speaker 3: And so this second meeting is maybe a little less publicized.

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Speaker 3: That's not the big headline grabber. He hangs out with

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Speaker 3: some folks who are on the boat with him, and

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Speaker 3: the way that they put it in the New York Times,

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Speaker 3: which reports on this, he has he's just out there.

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Speaker 3: They're in a good mood. They're like chain smoking and

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Speaker 3: talking whatever the early nineteen hundreds version of trash talk

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Speaker 3: is or small talk, I guess. And then round about

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Speaker 3: ten pm, one of the guys says, well, okay, well

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Speaker 3: let's knock it off, you know, let's go to bed,

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Speaker 3: and so he agrees one of his last statements, or

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Speaker 3: he agrees. He goes into his cabin and then he

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Speaker 3: comes back out and he hasn't changed his clothing or anything.

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Speaker 3: He shakes hands with his compatriots. He tells one of them,

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Speaker 3: all right, I'll see you in the morning, and he

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Speaker 3: sets away wake up call with the crew for six

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Speaker 3: fifteen am. What do you say? We pause for a

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Speaker 3: word from our sponsor. What you're here?

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Speaker 2: What? Okay?

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Speaker 4: Cliffhangerer Man relaxed.

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Speaker 3: He hats for a cruise line and we've returned. So

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Speaker 3: let's say fast forward deeply. It's six fifteen am. He

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Speaker 3: gets the wake up call. What happens.

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Speaker 4: Well, in the morning, his cabin is empty and his

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Speaker 4: bed has actually not been slept in at all. His

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Speaker 4: bed was not bed clothes, bed closer sheets, but his

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Speaker 4: night his his night shirt, his bedtime attire, were neatly

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Speaker 4: folded and laid out, and his watch had been left

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Speaker 4: where it could be seen from the bed, not to

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Speaker 4: mention that his and overcoat are also neatly stowed beneath

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Speaker 4: the after deck railing, which I guess is sort of

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Speaker 4: a kind of like a you know, like in a

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Speaker 4: hotel room where you might have like a little closet

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Speaker 4: built into the wall.

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Speaker 2: So hold up, So he is publicly saying good night

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Speaker 2: to people at like ten pm, I'll see you in

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Speaker 2: the morning, Yeah, see you bye, going in, nobody sees

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Speaker 2: him again. That's it. He clearly got ready for bed right,

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Speaker 2: or somebody made it to look as though he got

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Speaker 2: ready for bed right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: His disappearance throws the world for a loop. It's not

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Speaker 3: the kind of news they can crack down on because

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Speaker 3: his upcoming, his upcoming event at that factory was already

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Speaker 3: in the public sphere. So we see, even without the

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Speaker 3: world of social media, we see this proliferation of conspiracy theories.

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Speaker 3: Almost immediately, people say this guy was super rich, you know,

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Speaker 3: he had every reason to live. He invented a world

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Speaker 3: changing engine. But after his disappearance, as investigations continued, new

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Speaker 3: details revealed that his public image was not his real life. Instead,

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Speaker 3: the guy had some bad health. We don't know the

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Speaker 3: degree of it, and perhaps more importantly, he was in

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Speaker 3: serious debt, which, weirdly enough, happens to a lot of inventors.

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Speaker 2: So what did he So we know that he made

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Speaker 2: a lot of money at some point, and was making

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Speaker 2: a lot of money. I guess that money was being

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Speaker 2: funneled into places that were then losing money.

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Speaker 3: That's the idea, unclear, quite possibly against sketchier though a

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Speaker 3: curiouser and curiouser his spouse, Martha diesel shortly after his disappearance.

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Speaker 3: She opens a he gave her. Now, everybody, put yourself

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Speaker 3: in this situation. Imagine what you would do. Your partner

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Speaker 3: is going on a big trip, and your partner kind

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Speaker 3: of controls the finances, right, which would be common for

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Speaker 3: marriages of that time in that part of the world.

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Speaker 3: And then he says, hey, I'm going to leave this

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Speaker 3: bag with you. And then you say, okay, you know,

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Speaker 3: my dear husband, what's in the bag? What should I

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Speaker 3: do with it? And he goes, well, don't open it

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Speaker 3: until like next week, and then what.

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Speaker 2: And this is just before just before he leaves. Oh, dude,

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Speaker 2: this is pseudo side right, come on?

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Speaker 3: So she uh, I love it. So she uh she waits,

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Speaker 3: she gets the news of his disappearance. She says, all right,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to open the bag. It is a bag

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Speaker 3: full of cash. It's like a we don't know if

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Speaker 3: it was a Duffel bag. It probably wasn't, but it was.

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Speaker 3: It was a big It was full of like twenty

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Speaker 3: grand in German marks, which is over one hundred and

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Speaker 3: twenty thousand dollars today. And then that wasn't all that

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Speaker 3: was in the bag.

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Speaker 2: Well, wait a minute, German marks. I guess it depends

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00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: on the year, right, because German marks have fluctuated a

432
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 2: little bit, a bit, a little bit. Oh sorry, my

433
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 2: brain thinking about that.

434
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 3: This is you know, this is still before the times

435
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 3: of their great fluctuations that would come.

436
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: So and Ben, you said the bank accounts were completely empty.

437
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 3: That's the other thing that was in the bag, Like Jay, yeah.

438
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's nothing in there.

439
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 3: It's all in this bag, right that they basically have

440
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 3: pennies in their bank accounts. And then fast forward, you

441
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 3: know the world is still asking what the heck happened

442
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 3: to Rudolph? And then on October tenth. Officially, we arrive

443
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 3: at an answer.

444
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 4: A Belgian sailor aboard a north sea steamship spots a

445
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 4: body and the water just drifting, and upon further investigation,

446
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 4: it turned out that the body belonged to Rootolph Diesel.

447
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 3: Officially right, officially, I don't know. I think it's a

448
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: fishy explanation. But yeah, so they say they found his body.

449
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 3: They verified his body, and it looked as though he

450
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 3: somehow went over over the side of the boat and

451
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 3: then drowned and his corpse floated for multiple days until

452
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 3: it was discovered. But what happened?

453
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, do do we know who he owed money to

454
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 2: with his investments at all? Or is that all still

455
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:47,479
Speaker 2: kind of a mystery?

456
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 3: Well, there are there are competing theories about this, and

457
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 3: they get a little wilder and wilder the further out

458
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 3: we go, Like you'll you'll see people saying that he

459
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 3: had serious debts with titans of industry like the Rockefellers

460
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 3: or what have you, or had fallen on the bad

461
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 3: side of oil interest. But it's still kind of unclear.

462
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 3: Most people would argue at this time, and even now

463
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 3: that he took his own life, that he committed suicide

464
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 3: purposely jumped overboard because of either his dire health or

465
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,360
Speaker 3: his dire finances.

466
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 2: Got it, geez, I guess just if you did have

467
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 2: a list of people that he owed money to, you'd

468
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 2: have a list of people with motive to take him out.

469
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, And that list should be something that you

470
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 3: could find, right if this is not suicide, if this

471
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 3: is indeed homicide. And the problem is that with those

472
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 3: lists with that idea of documentation, if someone commits suicide

473
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 3: or pseudo side and they have a partner that will

474
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 3: still be legally biologically alive, then usually they have come

475
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 3: some kind of life insurance grift going on, right, And

476
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: it doesn't appear that he made any untoward kind of

477
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 3: new life insurance accounts, you know, like the day he

478
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 3: leaves on the dress. So there are a lot of

479
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 3: theories that argue, no, no, no, no, no, this guy

480
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 3: didn't take his own life. He certainly wasn't planning to.

481
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 3: He was murdered. And it makes I gotta be honest,

482
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 3: not to be credulous, but it makes more and more sense,

483
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 3: or at least there's I'm still on the fence about it,

484
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 3: you guys, But the way you look into it, he

485
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 3: wasn't He wasn't super happy with how his invention was

486
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 3: being used because very powerful forces wanted it. What are

487
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 3: you going to tell the German government, No, I have

488
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 3: a problem with what you're doing. They don't care. They've

489
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 3: already got the U boats.

490
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 4: So at this point, the murder theory posits that someone,

491
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 4: perhaps a German operative, may have engineered his death in

492
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 4: order to look like a suicide. We know, that's incredibly common,

493
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, just you put the gun in

494
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 4: the person's hand, wipe off your prints, et cetera. Or

495
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 4: feed them an overdose of their own medication something like that.

496
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 4: There's any number of ways this can be done. All

497
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 4: of this in the hopes of preventing him from spreading

498
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 4: his world changing technology to the enemy.

499
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, the British. It's fascinating to imagine that the same

500
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 2: technology gets used on two sides of like warrying of

501
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 2: two warring factions, right, same engine in the tanks that

502
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 2: are firing at each other. Really weird stuff.

503
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, shout out military industrial complex, right Yeah.

504
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: And in the end it's the manufacturers that are like what.

505
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 3: Especially if you're the only entity manufacturing a specific thing, right, Like, hey,

506
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 3: prices have gone up. Man, let's just let's you and

507
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 3: I hope they don't go up again. Now go ahead

508
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 3: and sign.

509
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: You couldn't need more ammunition, right, like, ah, we got

510
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: just several palettes waiting for you, go ahead, exactly right.

511
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 3: And what happened to that palette of a billion dollars

512
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 3: in Iraq straight cash?

513
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: No, it fell from an airplane with a parachute and

514
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 2: then it got squirreled away somewhere.

515
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 3: FI currency is such an amazing invention morality aside, but right,

516
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 3: so like to what you're saying, No, the idea then

517
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 3: would be that German operatives got on the boat and

518
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 3: nipped this stuff in the bud before he could meet

519
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 3: with British forces. It doesn't stop there, though, because some

520
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: people say, yeah, he was murdered, but it wasn't German

521
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 3: intelligence or some proxy of the Instead, it was a

522
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 3: tentacle of big oil interest and that's where the different

523
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 3: like tycoons of industry come into play. The argument is

524
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 3: that a few years before he disappeared, he said, you

525
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 3: know what else about the diesel engine? It can run

526
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 3: on peanut oil?

527
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: My friends, Oh yeah, oh, my son was just learning

528
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: who is the inventor with all the peanuts here in

529
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 2: George Washington Carver. George Washington Carver, he just did a

530
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 2: whole huge lesson on all of the other peanut inventions

531
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 2: and peanut related things that George Washington Carver worked on.

532
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 2: Peanut butter is the only thing that he didn't invent.

533
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 2: He invented there. It was a list of like four

534
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: hundred different things, including peanut oil, like specifically peanut oil

535
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: that could be combustible and used in.

536
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 3: An engine like this biodiesel.

537
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 2: Crazy.

538
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 3: Sorry, It's amazing though, and I feel like Carver would

539
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 3: be great for ridiculous history too. Maybe. So there's another

540
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 3: theory on this. So we've got suicide and we've got homicide.

541
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 3: The other theory certainly more tasty. This has the umami

542
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 3: of intrigue. What if Diesel didn't die at all? What

543
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 3: if he did commit pseudo side to your point, Matt,

544
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 3: what if he faked his death with help from the

545
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: British and emigrated to Canada or Australia some other anglophone

546
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: friendly country and spent the rest of his life in

547
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: obscurity designing submarine engines for the fight against Germany and

548
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: World War One.

549
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: Dude, I mean, I wouldn't put that past like the

550
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: intelligence forces right back then? Was the oss? Even around

551
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: pre World War One? Was there any there must have

552
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: been something like that, some kind of I don't know,

553
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 2: maybe not the US, maybe it was British.

554
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you have to be right, even if

555
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 3: it was just a couple of you know, like friends

556
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 3: of Queen and country kind of ad hoc thing. Of course,

557
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 3: those those kind of operations are as old as the

558
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 3: first time more than two tribes met to each met together. Right.

559
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 2: Oh. Yeah, the old paper clip goes way back, and

560
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 2: there was this.

561
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 3: You know, there would later be these patterns of abducting

562
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 3: scientists and war criminals or aiding them in some kind

563
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 3: of escape and keeping it out of the public sphere

564
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 3: if the news would be bad optics I mean Washington Posts.

565
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 3: They points out that pseudo side, as we've discussed, it

566
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 3: asked a lot, It asks a lot of error from

567
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 3: investigators and to ask a supreme amount of OPSEC from

568
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: the people who are faking their deaths. So they say,

569
00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 3: there are no administrative records, no paper trail at all

570
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 3: for this possible life in Canada or some kind of

571
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 3: wit sec thing in Australia. There there's no deathbed confession

572
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 3: from someone who might have spirited him away. No fellow

573
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 3: engineers who would have ever worked on anything have said,

574
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 3: you know, they they told us his name was John Doe,

575
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 3: but he looked a lot like this Rudolph Diesel guy.

576
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 3: There's just no there's no hard evidence for this idea,

577
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 3: as interesting as it is, and it'll probably be a

578
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 3: mystery for the time being.

579
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 4: And again, like we were talking about this the other

580
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 4: day with Glenn Miller, how you know, this guy at

581
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 4: the peak of his game who had just decided to

582
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 4: essentially invent the USO and was going overseas to you know,

583
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 4: bring cheer and joy to the troops, what motive would.

584
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 3: He have had to commit pseudo sides?

585
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 4: You know, I think the more likely scenario is that

586
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 4: something went wrong and that his plane was accidentally shot

587
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 4: down or was the you know, the victim of a

588
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 4: of a malfunction of some kind.

589
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 3: And I think that similarly the case here.

590
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, but what if he never got into bed, that is,

591
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 2: what did he do? You go out for a smoke, night.

592
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 3: Walk, the night walk the deck on the deck did

593
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 3: have insomnia, But then also, you know, there are no

594
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 3: like cameras, there's no strict visitor log. So what if

595
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 3: someone who happens to be a passenger or happens to

596
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 3: be on the crew stops by, like just after the

597
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 3: other folks go and knocks on the door.

598
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 4: Let me rephrase, pseudo side to me in this case

599
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 4: makes zero sense. What does make a lot of sense

600
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 4: is that this guy could have been a target because

601
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 4: of the power of his invention and what it might

602
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 4: mean if he took it global.

603
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 2: I'm just going to keep in mind the thought that

604
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 2: we discussed where he gets taken somewhere else for some

605
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 2: kind of military might effort, because to me, weirdly enough,

606
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 2: that makes a lot of sense.

607
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 3: Right right, And also it's it's a nicer ending. It's

608
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 3: kind of like it's kind of like when my parents

609
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 3: told me our first dog went camping, right, So maybe

610
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 3: that's what happened. Maybe maybe Diesel went went camping in Canada.

611
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 3: But if you want to learn more about this case,

612
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 3: which remains unsolved, by the way, check out the book

613
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 3: The Mysterious Case of Rudolph Diesel by Douglas Brunt without

614
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 3: spoiling it. He does not agree with the suicide conclusion

615
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 3: of the authorities, and it's a heck of a read.

616
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 3: I think they just made a deal for it to

617
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 3: be adapted into maybe a film or a mini series

618
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 3: or something, but keeping keep an eye out for that.

619
00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 3: And most importantly, please no, folks, he is not Diesel

620
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 3: is not the only mysterious inventor we're discussing today. We're

621
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 3: going to take a pause for a word from our sponsors,

622
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 3: maybe a carburetor company, and then go to the story

623
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 3: of tom Ogel. No, this is the name you were

624
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 3: super excited about, so we can get back. Can we

625
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 3: lean on your your German pronunciation today on this one

626
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 3: I will deign to do you proud.

627
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 4: And we've returned and Ben, thank you so much for

628
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 4: this opportunity to flex my young German boy pronunciation. Chops.

629
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 4: Today we are going to talk about tom Ogel born

630
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 4: Thomas Hans Vanna Peta Wolfgang Dingle Statt.

631
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 3: Ogel Okay dingle Stott.

632
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 4: Though it makes that sounds made up, bro, have you.

633
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 4: There's this amazing Monty Python sketch. It's about this composer

634
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 4: whose name was too long. It was so long that

635
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 4: it was just like absurd and the and that the

636
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 4: joke becomes every time they say his name, they say

637
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 4: the whole name, and it's a Johann Gamble, Putty, devon

638
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 4: aus van splendent, Schlittish, Crossbender, fried Dingle, Dangle, Dongle, Dongle, Burstein,

639
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 4: von Knacker, Thrasher, Applebanger, Horrowitz, tickle and sick, Grander, naughty, Speltinker,

640
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 4: grand lik, Grumblemeyer, Spetwasser, curtly himbal Bissen, ban Vaughen, guten bend, bitter, Imnernberger, Bratwustel, Gushputten,

641
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 4: mitt wach, Luber, hanswat gomberber shandanka krbufly like mitter von

642
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 4: Olmo because he's he's from Olma. I'm sorry, it's I

643
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 4: think honestly, that was maybe a joke based on this

644
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 4: guy's name. Granted, there are many other absurdly long names

645
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 4: in the German cannon, but yes, Thomas Hans Werner Petter

646
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 4: Wolfgang Dingles dot Ogel was born in nineteen fifty three,

647
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 4: truly his full name. Like Diesel, he invented a new

648
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 4: kind of improvement for engines.

649
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 3: Yeah you'll hear it, called the ogol or Ogle engine.

650
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 3: But what he really claimed to have invented was a

651
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 3: modified alternative to the typical carburetor, and he was taking

652
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 3: the carburetor out and using a series of things to

653
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 3: kind of replace it. And in that replacement he was

654
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 3: saying he drastically improved fuel economy. And what's more, he

655
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 3: didn't have to build a special car to do it.

656
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 3: He could do this with pretty much any car on

657
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 3: the road that had a carburetor. And if you let

658
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 3: him tinker to that earlier point with your otherwise normal car,

659
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you would get two hundred miles

660
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 3: per gallon of fuel.

661
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 2: Oh, don't do that, don't do that. That sounds great, y'all,

662
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,959
Speaker 2: but the oil folks are going to perk their ears

663
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 2: up real quick they hear that. At least was it

664
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 2: in secret? And nobody knew about this at least?

665
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 3: Oh no, they knew. They knew for sure because he

666
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: got Thank you for that set up, Matty. He got

667
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 3: a lot of media coverage in nineteen seventy nine or

668
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy seven. And it makes me to your example,

669
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 3: it makes me think that somewhere in the board of

670
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 3: Saudi Aramco, a guy stood up and said, there's a disturbance,

671
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 3: you know.

672
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, he cannot allow this.

673
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 3: And in nineteen seventy seven, he's based in El Paso.

674
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 3: He's a very young dude. Nineteen seventy seven, he drives

675
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 3: to from El Paso to another town, New Mexico called Deming,

676
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 3: and then he drives back and he only uses two

677
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 3: gallons of gas. No, allegedly, And you can read like

678
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 3: plenty of media coverage about this. He was open with it.

679
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 3: And if any of that's true, it's a game changer.

680
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,439
Speaker 3: It would rock the auto and energy industries. People would

681
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 3: need far less fuel. People would probably also have I

682
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 3: don't know, the parts manufacturers, the car manufacturers, they would

683
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 3: all be scrambling for this. And the guy is just

684
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 3: twenty four years old at this time.

685
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 2: This is crazy. I can't believe like one hundred miles

686
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: per gallon average, you know exactly. That's insane.

687
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 3: That's his claim.

688
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, fair enough, fair enough. But he had applied

689
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 4: for a patent, and while he was waiting for that

690
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 4: patent to be approved, he continued to tinker and refine,

691
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 4: you know, and test the system.

692
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 3: You know.

693
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 4: Kind of a gaggle of lawyers started to work on

694
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 4: an agreement between Ogle and the folks backing him regarding

695
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 4: royalties if the device were to kind of hit the market.

696
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 4: And we are getting a lot of this information from

697
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 4: a really fantastic piece by Cynthia Quavas, Isabelle Hernandez, and

698
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 4: Ruth Viz at EPCC Library Research Guides.

699
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah. This was solid work on their part

700
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 3: and a great way if you want to if you

701
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 3: want to get a sense of just the blow by

702
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 3: blow of media coverage. This is a pretty comprehensive resource,

703
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 3: So do check it out. I'm pretty impressed with the

704
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 3: EPCC right now.

705
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 2: So dude, yeah, Ben, can I just stick on this

706
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 2: original article from the old Passo Times that you linked use?

707
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 3: Yeah?

708
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is it's just blowing my mind a little bit.

709
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 2: So there's an article that was written in nineteen seventy

710
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 2: seven about this by a man named John Dussard I

711
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,439
Speaker 2: think is how you say his name. This is about

712
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 2: that trip we just discussed right where you got crazy

713
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 2: gas mileage up here to show a journalist right it is.

714
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 2: The vehicle is a Ford Galaxy that got around Gosh,

715
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: the gas mileage was about twelve miles per gallon in

716
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,879
Speaker 2: that vehicle and he ten xt to that thing, if

717
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: not like ten point four xt it.

718
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 4: Like that.

719
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 2: I just to really understand, if this is true, how

720
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 2: intense of a shift that could have been if that engine,

721
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 2: his system were made to go wide in any way.

722
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 3: And officially, different reporters had examined this. Engineers in the

723
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 3: area had talked with him. They said they thought it

724
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 3: was legit. It wasn't a hoax. But as far as

725
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 3: we know, there were no scientifically rigorous studies of this,

726
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 3: of this Ocal engine. And that becomes a problem later because, look,

727
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 3: the guy's very, very smart. He's clearly brilliant. He's also

728
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 3: very young, and he's not making this in a vacuum.

729
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 3: He's a gearhead who likes playing with stuff, and I

730
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 3: think we can we've all experienced some form of that,

731
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 3: you know, phenomenon. But he is creating this in the

732
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 3: middle of the US energy crisis, and he gets a

733
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,439
Speaker 3: lot of interest from some high muckety MUCKs, at least

734
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 3: one oil company, to auto manufact actors. At one point,

735
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 3: even the US Air Force started poking around, because you know,

736
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 3: fuel is expensive.

737
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 4: Yeah. So in June twenty second of nineteen seventy eight,

738
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 4: El Paso Herald Post had this to say, Ogle sells

739
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 4: rights to a gas saving device, and the article stated

740
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 4: that the AFS Advanced Fuel Systems Incorporated rather, which is

741
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 4: a company in Washington State, had bought the manufacturing and

742
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 4: marketing rights to the technology, and the contract specified that

743
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 4: Ogle would receive an unspecified amount of advance money, one

744
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 4: hundred thousand shares of stock in the company, six percent

745
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 4: royalty on sales of each device, a monthly salary, and

746
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 4: the rights to visit AFS at will.

747
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 2: That's pretty sounds pretty solid. That's some island buying moneys

748
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 2: are lucky.

749
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 3: To get one of those, you know what I mean? Like, yeah,

750
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 3: six percent on sale of every single device.

751
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: It sounds made up.

752
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 4: Frankly, guys, would that's a bad deal for the people

753
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 4: actually making the stuff, you know what I mean?

754
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 3: Speaking his segues, that might be more indicative of AFS

755
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 3: because two months after they made this deal, which all

756
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 3: three of us just agreed, is not very smart on

757
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 3: their part. The SEC came calling and they said, hey,

758
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 3: Advanced Fuel Systems, you guys make bad deals. As a

759
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 3: matter of fact, you've done a criminally bad job. You

760
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 3: have violated federal security laws. And then Ogel is also

761
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 3: he's playing the field. He's got other stuff going on.

762
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 3: He has created, He's taken some money, and he's created

763
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 3: the first of what he hopes will be a chain

764
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 3: of you call him computerized diagnostic centers. And before the

765
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 3: year was out he closed down that one store he opened.

766
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,879
Speaker 3: He disconnected his phone, like Ning Lee. He became increasingly

767
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 3: more difficult to find, and this weirded some people out,

768
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 3: especially the irs, because in May of nineteen eighty, they

769
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 3: came calling specifically for him, Tommy Boy. They said, you

770
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 3: owe us more than twenty grand in taxes, because just

771
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 3: like Rudolph Diesel, this dude's public image was not the

772
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 3: same as the actual guy. He was living the high

773
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 3: life young, you know, young mid twenties, dumb amounts of

774
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 3: money or people offering you dumb amounts of money. He's

775
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,479
Speaker 3: got a customized limousine he rides everywhere in well.

776
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 2: He's so he did get that money with that deal

777
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 2: with AFS. So he got whatever, at least part of

778
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,720
Speaker 2: that money, even after they came after AFS.

779
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, he got some money for sure. He had

780
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 3: more than fifty financial backers, distinct people and companies. Over time,

781
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 3: and he started living kind of wild guys in nineteen

782
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 3: eighty one in April, he got a gut shot outside

783
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 3: of a bar in northeast Alpasso. He survived. No one

784
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 3: was ever charged, but for some reason, while he was

785
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 3: in the hospital, the El Paso PD had officers guarding

786
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 3: his room.

787
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 4: Usually happens, well, yeah, but you know, I see the

788
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 4: person of notes who's under threat perhaps, or you know,

789
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 4: maybe they just decided he deserved a security detail.

790
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 2: Well see, but here's the other thing. If you're an onlooker, right,

791
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 2: maybe they're guarding his room because he was just involved

792
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 2: in a shooting. So maybe they're not necessarily even guarding him.

793
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 2: Maybe they're like they're in an investigative.

794
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 3: They're like stakeout, you know, trying to find the purp

795
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 3: or maybe it's something that the three of us didn't know.

796
00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 3: Maybe you can just always request an armed guard when

797
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 3: you go to the hospital, that would be cool.

798
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 4: Or maybe the doc in the box like, yeah, I

799
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 4: mean I need to get And then the first Godfather movie,

800
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 4: when there's an attempt made on the Godfather of Vido

801
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 4: Corleone's life and he's in the hospital, there's you know,

802
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 4: cops watching his door, but they end up being crooked

803
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 4: cops and they leave so that the bad man can

804
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 4: come and kill him. And it's only his son Michael

805
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 4: that figures out the plot and gets him out of

806
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 4: there and moves him to a different, different suite.

807
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 3: I'm just in love with the idea of like going

808
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 3: anywhere like a hospital or doc in the box and

809
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 3: being able to say, Hey, I'm here, I've got a cold.

810
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 3: I need an armed guard right where this appointment Actually three? Yeah,

811
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 3: check my insurance. Make sure those officers are in network.

812
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 3: So there's this other stuff. He apparently had run ins

813
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 3: with the law, like reckless driving, arrest, possession of an

814
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 3: illegal firearm. These are weird things. He also sued a

815
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 3: guy because he had lost a bunch of pool games

816
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 3: to the dude, and he said the dude forced him

817
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,720
Speaker 3: to sign away like twenty two percent of his shares

818
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 3: in some like in some weird gambling debt thing.

819
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 2: Well, guys, come on, we know what the saying is.

820
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 2: We know how it goes more money, more issues? Is

821
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 2: that how gills money? No problems beclusus. But there's ninety

822
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 2: nine of them, the problems at least that exist. But

823
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 2: there's one that isn't right.

824
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 3: And for jay Z and for Tom and his lawyer

825
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 3: said something interesting in one of these many legal kerfuffles.

826
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 3: He says, look, my client is and paraphrasing here, he's

827
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 3: a twenty six year old kid. He is a target

828
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 3: for anyone. He is scared by the local I guess

829
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 3: CD gambling figures of El Paso, and these people are

830
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 3: getting him drunk and taking advantage of him and just

831
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 3: fleecing him left and right. So the attorney is painting

832
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 3: him as a victim, not some kind of like grifting

833
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 3: con artist who's living too high on the hog shout

834
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 3: out to the Dale car episode. By the way of

835
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 3: car stuff. Oh that's a weird one.

836
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 2: But is that wait, what is that? I don't know that.

837
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 4: It's another kind of invention that was killed right or

838
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 4: essentially it was just oh wait, what was the deal?

839
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 4: Was it kind of a grift in and of itself

840
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 4: like the car?

841
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 3: Yeah?

842
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was like over promised, mega under delivered kind

843
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 4: of cinema. Okay, God, and it just got weirder and weirder.

844
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 4: It's a three part episode. Hopefully it holds up. But

845
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 4: we don't know what really happened with Tom. We don't

846
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 4: know what his real situation was, and we probably won't

847
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 4: know that, at least not publicly for now. Because on

848
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:02,439
Speaker 4: August nineteenth, nineteen eighty one, he's twenty six years old.

849
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 4: He dies, he has found, his body is found. He

850
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 4: collapses at a friend's house. But I think his body

851
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 4: is found in the desert, and authorities say, Okay, he overdosed.

852
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 4: He overdosed on alcohol and.

853
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 3: A tranquilizer called darvon. You guys, I don't know too

854
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 3: much about drugs, but I assume that would be like

855
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 3: a common I guess, recreational drug of the time.

856
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 4: I guess, so I imagine it would be akin to

857
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,720
Speaker 4: something like xanax or like a like a a sedative.

858
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 3: You know.

859
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 4: I don't know that it's a thing that has prescribed anymore,

860
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 4: and it's probably really really powerful, because drugs back in

861
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 4: those days were, and they were they could be very,

862
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:45,280
Speaker 4: very dangerous.

863
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 3: It looks like it's an opioid.

864
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 4: Is that right? Let's see, Yeah, it's a narcotic.

865
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 2: Wow, is that interesting pharmaceuticals?

866
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, Wow, that's a fun name. Yeah, that's very I

867
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 4: just yeah, I don't know, I don't know. Let's see dosage,

868
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 4: But what is that? What is it prescribed for? Looks

869
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:07,879
Speaker 4: like it treats mild to moderate pain.

870
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 3: It's a pain kill out of that.

871
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, for some reason in my mind, I you

872
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 4: know where I think I first heard about this drug.

873
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 4: There's a Chuck Pallink book called Invisible Monsters that involves

874
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 4: naming of.

875
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 3: A lot of pills, and that one I think is

876
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 3: in there at some point, right, Yeah, well, either way,

877
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 3: don't mix those kinds of drugs or substances, folks. Just

878
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 3: like with the case of Rudolph Diesel, there are these

879
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 3: competing theories that spring up overnight, you know, like the

880
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 3: old myth about soldiers and dragons. Teeth pathologists say, Okay,

881
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,720
Speaker 3: we know it's an overdose. However, based on our evidence,

882
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 3: we cannot rule whether this was accidental or whether this

883
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 3: was indicative of suicide. And Tom's friends and the lawyer

884
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 3: that he's forged the relationship of some sort with at

885
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 3: this point because they're always hanging out, because this guy's

886
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,879
Speaker 3: always up the hijinks. Everybody who knows the guy says, look,

887
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 3: did he like to party shore, but he would never

888
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 3: have taken twenty Darvon pills in addition to raging. And

889
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 3: I you know, I'm not in that world. But it

890
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 3: seems like swallowing twenty pills of anything is a lot

891
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 3: if the pills work right, Yeah.

892
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 2: Even seriously, even even what what's the most comment like

893
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 2: if you're going to take ibuprofen or yeah, twenties too many?

894
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 3: Twenty's too many? They should redesign the dosage.

895
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 2: Right.

896
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 3: So, so now people are saying, did someone have a

897
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 3: motive to the point about diesel? Did someone do something

898
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 3: to take this guy out? As we mentioned, you have

899
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 3: more than fifty different financial backers who are left to

900
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 3: fight over his estate. And then as as the time

901
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 3: wends on, his invention fades from national interest and his

902
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 3: story joins the ranks of other tech suppression tales. There's

903
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 3: a documentary about this in late two thousand twenty ten

904
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 3: called GasHole that highlights his invention, as well as several other,

905
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:24,879
Speaker 3: let's call them controversial inventions in the world of petroleum

906
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 3: and automotives. I don't know, man, I watched it. They

907
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 3: have a horse in the race too. They are strongly

908
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 3: of the opinion that large oil and manufacturing interest shut

909
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 3: down inventions that might threaten their current status quo.

910
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 2: Like the old EV one.

911
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 3: Like the old ev one bought up and oh, you

912
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,839
Speaker 3: could only lease them, right, and then at the end

913
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 3: of the lease, the company took them all and destroyed them.

914
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 2: Woo electric cars in the early two thousands, and.

915
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 3: I believe the first car ever made was also electric,

916
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 3: that's right, yeah, or electric carriages. Excuse me, they weren't

917
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 3: there you go.

918
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,240
Speaker 2: That's by the way, that first motor and Mercedes Benz motor.

919
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 2: I think that motor was invented the same year the

920
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 2: Piedmont Driving Club was founded.

921
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 3: Oh nice, isn't that fun as a celebration.

922
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't need the horses and carriages anymore. They

923
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 2: had Mercedes Benz engines. And it's been that way ever since.

924
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 3: I love the coincidence game. That's like, say, it's like, oh,

925
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 3: Tom Ogle died just a few days after I was born. Coincidence.

926
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no coincidence there. I just sorry my brain.

927
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:47,360
Speaker 3: It's fascinating, though, how many things occur in step in history,

928
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 3: you know. I also found a list. I was thinking

929
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 3: we might check this out off air, but I found

930
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 3: a cool list from Popular Mechanics about the quote unquote

931
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 3: greatest inventions per year. So you can find the biggest

932
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 3: invention on the year of your birth. Pretty neat stuff

933
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 3: worth checking out. But this is not the end of

934
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 3: the story. I can't believe we we're toward at the

935
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 3: end of an episode. We've talked about just two inventors,

936
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 3: both of whom died under mysterious circumstances, both of both

937
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 3: of whom one of whom invented something that definitely changed

938
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 3: the world, and one of whom invented something that he

939
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 3: certainly thought could change the world or would have would have.

940
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: Uh, it's.

941
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 3: So it's kind of doubter because those guys both died.

942
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 3: Do we want to do We want to maybe tease

943
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 3: someone we're going to explore in a future a future

944
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 3: installment of this episode.

945
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 4: Someone Who's got was Oh yeah, I think this one

946
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 4: was pretty near and dear to Matt's heart. Matt, you

947
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 4: want to bless us with a tease?

948
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 2: Well, if this is an inventor slash just all around

949
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 2: pretty brilliant person that we've been following for several years now,

950
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 2: we've mentioned him a couple of times. Yeah, you may

951
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 2: have heard his name, Dean Cayman. I guess connected to

952
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 2: the invention of this thing called a segue, that weird

953
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 2: little people mover thing. But before he did that. He

954
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 2: invented other stuff too, right, Yeah.

955
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 4: He actually invented like a bionic arm, very ahead of

956
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 4: its time. It was called the Luke Arm, like named

957
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 4: after Luke Skywalker, who you know, obviously spoiler alert gets

958
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 4: his arm chopped off by doth Veda and then has

959
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 4: a bionic arm moving forward in the series.

960
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Well, the guy is a prolific inventor of things,

961
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 2: mostly in the like biomedical field, so stuff associated with

962
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 2: autoinjector systems for you know, people with diabetes and all

963
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 2: kinds of other different ailments like that. Pretty prolific stuff.

964
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 2: He's got a bunch of different companies. But the reason

965
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 2: why I think we wanted to talk about him, and

966
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 2: we'll talk about him again in the future, is because

967
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 2: he diesel. Like anybody who makes an important invention, gains

968
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 2: the interest of militaries and governments, and lately, I think

969
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 2: since twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, he's been working on something new.

970
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're talking about this off air. He's been quite

971
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 3: a busy, busy guy. He reminds me a lot of

972
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 3: Buckminster Fuller, kind of a New Age renaissance man, a

973
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 3: fasterist as we right, Yeah, quite so. And he got

974
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 3: an eighty million dollar grant from the DoD the Department

975
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 3: of Defense in twenty seventeen, and he's working on something

976
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 3: he calls ARMY, but it's spelled with an I.

977
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 2: What does that mean? Man, it's the Advanced Regenerative Manufacturing Institute.

978
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 2: What what's it's It's a facility that's going to be

979
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 2: built on a place that's going to be fairly isolated.

980
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 2: It's a one hundred thousand square eaters at a place

981
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 2: called the mill Yard in Manchester, maybe New York. It

982
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:10,919
Speaker 2: seems really interesting because, at least according to ABC News

983
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 2: reporting in Gosh November first of this year, they're saying

984
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 2: this place and the partners there at that facility, whatever

985
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 2: it becomes, are going to quote gross sells tissue and

986
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 2: bones and even manufacture replacement human organs. Guys, it feels

987
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 2: like a direct connection to some of our earlier episodes

988
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 2: on the future of humanity and living forever and all

989
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 2: of that stuff. And if the DoD is paying for it, yeah,

990
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 2: it feels like a soldier enhancement situation.

991
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 4: By the way, Manchester's in New Hampshire, Massachusetts. There's also

992
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 4: one in Massachusetts, so we'll have to get to the

993
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 4: bottom of that part.

994
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I just need to go back to the

995
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 2: full article. Sorry about that. It's a place called Manchester.

996
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 3: Great accept no substitutions, and this gives us an excuse

997
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 3: to go on the road. And of course we know

998
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 3: these kinds of grants don't result in just single single

999
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 3: issue missions. Right, We're looking again at at innovations that

1000
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 3: lead to applications of which we may not be fully aware.

1001
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 3: Even Cayman might still have some questions about how these

1002
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 3: things can be applied. But fascinating, fascinating stuff, and so

1003
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 3: good to end with a mysterious inventor who wasn't possibly

1004
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 3: murdered by powerful forces.

1005
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 2: Oh, he's doing fine. He is isolated. Dude has his

1006
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 2: own private island. It's called North Dumpling Island, and well

1007
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 2: he didn't successfully secede from the US, but he has

1008
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 2: an official document signed by George hw Bush I think. Oh,

1009
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 2: and also in his own little island nation that he

1010
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 2: has his own currency for like pretty it's ben Buck

1011
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 2: City right there, and the founders of Ben and Jerry's

1012
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:00,919
Speaker 2: ice Cream are officially the quote minace of ice cream

1013
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:03,919
Speaker 2: of his island nation, which is freaking dope.

1014
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:08,439
Speaker 3: Ty, I'm picturing like a Walter Noble figure from Fringe. Yeah,

1015
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 3: you know how that guy was always about big scientific breakthroughs.

1016
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 2: And then snacks lots of ice cream.

1017
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 3: I get it.

1018
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: Man.

1019
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 3: We're gonna call it a day, but we want your help, folks.

1020
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,440
Speaker 3: We'd love to hear more about inventors you would like

1021
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 3: us to cover in the future. This is an iterative episode,

1022
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 3: so it will recur. We also want to hear your

1023
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 3: thoughts on what could have happened to Diesel, What could

1024
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 3: have happened to Tom, What is Dean came in up

1025
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 3: to over on Dumpling Island? Let us know, is there

1026
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 3: something more to the story? Things that remain the stuff

1027
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 3: they don't want you to know on the modern day.

1028
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 3: We try to be easy to find online. That's right.

1029
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 4: You can find it at the handle Conspiracy Stuff where

1030
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 4: we exist on x YouTube and Facebook. You can find

1031
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 4: us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff Show on Instagram and TikTok.

1032
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 2: Hey, we have a phone number. You can call it

1033
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 2: right now and leave a voice for us. The number

1034
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 2: is one eight three three st d WYTK. When you

1035
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 2: call in, you got three minutes. Give yourself a cool

1036
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 2: nickname and let us know if we can use your

1037
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 2: name and message on the air. If you don't want

1038
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 2: to do that, maybe you want to send some links

1039
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 2: and attachment whatever, why not instead send us a good

1040
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 2: old fashioned email.

1041
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1042
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

1043
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1044
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.