1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,679 Speaker 1: Please note that in this episode we'll be talking about 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: sexual abuse and violence, which could be triggering for some listeners. 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: Please listen at your own discretion. Luciano Miranda says he 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 1: first heard about the allegations against John of God like 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: most Brazilians. 6 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 2: Because it was Friday when the TV show appeared in 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 2: the press in bil. 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 3: Program at Lizio Brazio and Imagine Brazil. 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: By Saturday, Luciano was already working on the case. That's 10 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: because he's a criminal prosecutor in the state of Goyaz, 11 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: the state that's home to the Casa and John of God. 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 3: Vio asked personal. 13 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 2: I immediately saw a situation through the press. Was initially 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 2: invited to speak on behalf of the public Prosecutor's office. 15 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: His job at first was to field questions from the 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: press about the allegations. 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 3: Brasilo Joao de. 18 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: Excellist A dozen women said the self style spiritual healer 19 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 2: had abused them at his. 20 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 4: Clinics do International. 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 5: We had no idea how this would transform and how 22 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 5: it would unfold. This is in Jola. 23 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: By Monday, Luciano became part of a task force that 24 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: would try to understand the magnitude of this case, because 25 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: this situation was far from normal normal. 26 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: The normal thing is you first have the legal investigation, 27 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 2: the police eis and this is then somehow released to 28 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: the press. So this process and here we had the 29 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 2: opposite of that process. 30 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: But in this instance Luciano didn't see it as a 31 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: bad thing. That this all first came out in the press. 32 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: Is avoidable, God, because when this was released, it ended 33 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 2: up reinforcing the idea that maybe there were other victims 34 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 2: that were afraid to come forward. 35 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 5: Well, he sim so. 36 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 2: That created like a current, a flow of voices that 37 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: only grew, and the press at that point became essential 38 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: to create a bridge between the public prosecutor's office you 39 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: have each end the victims. 40 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: That bridge took the form of an email address and 41 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: a phone number that the task force set up and 42 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: distributed to every TV channel in Brazil. They asked people 43 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: to contact them if they had more information about these 44 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,399 Speaker 1: allegations or to report new ones. 45 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 3: For moving now do primedu jiki. 46 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: By the end of the first day, we understood the 47 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: scope of the case involving mister. 48 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 5: Duot de Shieda mi is is simple fact. 49 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,399 Speaker 2: We received more than one hundred contacts in a single day. 50 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 2: I'm unaware of anything like this in cases involving sexual 51 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 2: abuse or any case at all. 52 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: The task force immediately started processing the avalanche of calls 53 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: and emails, directing victims to make formal complaints with their 54 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: local authorities, because there was nothing Luciano or his team 55 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: could do until someone decided to formally press charges against. 56 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: Joao qier A Quarte and I remember that it was 57 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 2: a Wednesday, at night, seven pm, sebum and I get 58 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: a call from a state prosecutor in the Federal District 59 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: saying that two victims contacted her and they wanted to 60 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: formally press charges. 61 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 3: For Melissa Ali. 62 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 2: That means we would have something that could legally allow 63 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: for a house search. 64 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 5: And even an arrest warrant prize. 65 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: From exactly right media and DOMI this is two faced 66 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: John of God. I'm your host, Martina Castro, Episode five, 67 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: taking Down John of God. When Luciano heard that two 68 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,799 Speaker 1: victims were willing to press charges against John of God, 69 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: he didn't want to waste any time macadamism. 70 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: That same day, I asked my colleague from the Federal district, 71 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 2: is it possible to get these sworn statements today? Everything 72 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 2: was recorded the next day we made the requests, both 73 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 2: the search request and the arrest warrant. 74 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 3: You the pretty zone. 75 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: This was Wednesday, December twelfth, twenty eighteen, not even a 76 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: week since Conversa Combial had aired their segment about John 77 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: of God's alleged crimes. The search warrant covered all of 78 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: Joao's homes. According to the newspaper Folio de sal Paulo, 79 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: he had twenty seven properties listed under his name in 80 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: Abadianya Loan, as well as a plane and even a 81 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: mining site. Luciano says the task force had to coordinate 82 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: the searches carefully so they could happen at the exact 83 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: same time. That way, no one would have a chance 84 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: to hide things or destroy evidence. Two days later, a 85 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: judge issued the warrants to search Choao's homes and for 86 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: his arrest. The task force kicked their plan into motion. 87 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: Luciano was with the team that searched Joao's main house 88 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: in Annapolis, the closest city to abadianya. 89 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 2: Ya yep Leaf and there in total we found firearms, ammunition, 90 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,239 Speaker 2: a lot of cash, something that is not common. 91 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 5: It was more than one and a half million rare eyes. 92 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: Knowing me gis at the time, that was equivalent to 93 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: almost four hundred thousand US dollars, and it was in 94 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: several different currencies. 95 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: Eugipahamad got via the money was scattered among underworkability cut 96 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: her attention because it wasn't like it was in a safe. 97 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: It seemed like it was simply thrown around the house, 98 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,799 Speaker 2: and it was a gigantic amount. 99 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: O Globo later reported that in the days before the 100 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 1: warrants were issued, Jouau had moved thirty five million ries 101 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: from his bank accounts and investments. That's like nine million 102 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: dollars at the time. That's why the task force was 103 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: in such a rush to request a warrant for his arrest. 104 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: But when news of the warrant went public, Juuau was 105 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: nowhere to be found. After briefly appearing at the CASA 106 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: where he declared that he was innocent, he kind of 107 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: disappeared for a few days. It was unclear if he 108 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: was going to turn himself in until four days later, 109 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: Juuau and his lawyer pull up on the side of 110 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: a dirt road. They're not alone. Monica Bergamon, a very 111 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: prominent journalist from the newspaper Folio Deo, is. 112 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 6: In the middle of an exclusive. 113 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: Interview with Joao she's recording on her cell phone. When 114 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: they decide to pull over next to police vehicles, that's 115 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: when it becomes clear Joao is turning himself in. In 116 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: this audio clip from the video Monica recorded and later 117 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: shared with Globo, you can hear her ask Joao why 118 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: he waited until now to turn himself in, and as 119 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: he walks to the police car holding his lawyer's hand, 120 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: Joao says to her he says, I'm turning myself over 121 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: to heavenly justice and the justice here on earth as promised. Remember, 122 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: Jouau was beloved by many in Brazil and he had 123 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: very fluential friends. There had been reports of three different 124 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: Brazilian presidents and at least one Supreme Court judge going 125 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: to see him. And then there were the thousands of 126 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: people who considered themselves his followers. As you can imagine, 127 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: for many of them, it was a great injustice for 128 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: Jouau to get taken into custody. Thanks to this recording, 129 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: all of them got to watch that injustice unfold. This 130 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: dramatic scene helped paint Joao as a victim of this situation. 131 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: But Camilla Appel from conversa. Combial says there was another 132 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: element at play. 133 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 7: We have a culture of disbelieving the word of the victim. 134 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 7: People say, is that so? But didn't you do something 135 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 7: that made him think that you actually wanted sex? And 136 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 7: that's very common. 137 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: Jua's own defense team circulated rumors to fan the flames 138 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: of distrust, especially when it came to the main person 139 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: who came forward with her story and showed her face, 140 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: Zahita Mouse. 141 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 7: John of God's defense tried to take Zahita's word down 142 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 7: in all kinds, in all way, possibles and I don't 143 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 7: believe how can we have this kind of lost system 144 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 7: A defense will just come and invent stuff about someone. 145 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 7: They said she was a prostitute Sahid. I mean even 146 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 7: if she was, of course, but she's not. 147 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: They also said Zahia was extorting John of God and 148 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: that she invented her story as revenge when he didn't 149 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: want to pay her. 150 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 7: It's a strategy that they use to take the credibility 151 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 7: away from the woman who is denouncing the man. 152 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: They even tried to investigate and discredit Camilla. She heard 153 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: people were circulating her photo in Abadianya. She wasn't scared, 154 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: but her father was, especially at the beginning of her investigation, 155 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 1: before the news went public. 156 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 7: He rented a bulletproof car for me to drive during 157 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 7: that period because a friend of him said, look, if 158 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 7: they want to kill her, they're going to do it 159 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 7: in the traffic jam, pretending the robbery, right, So bulletproof 160 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 7: card just showed up at my door because my father 161 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 7: was really scared, and I think I was until the 162 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 7: until the segment went out. I was scared until then. 163 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: Because after the segment aired, no matter what she allows, 164 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: followers and closest allies said to defend him, there was 165 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: no turning back. His victims had finally found the strength 166 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: to tell their own stories of abuse. 167 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 3: We seek. 168 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: Many women didn't even understand they had been abused until 169 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 2: the press product the case. 170 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 3: Papas. 171 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: Now they didn't stand what happened to them, and they 172 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: wanted to talk. Luciano couldn't believe the amount of people 173 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: who ended up reaching out to the Task. 174 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 3: Force Quando sivio ki. 175 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 2: When it became clear that someone as powerful as drought 176 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 2: the Shida could have an arrest one issued against completely, 177 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 2: that was like another reinforcement for the victims to seek 178 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: US out and it showed it in the wedding po 179 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 2: Cagu that he wasn't untouchable. 180 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: In the end, over three hundred victims contacted the Task 181 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: Force to say they had been sexually abused by John 182 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: of God. Three hundred. Some had stories of abuse that 183 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: happened back in the nineteen eighties. Others had been abused 184 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: only a few months before. 185 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 3: Las venus vich must commiss. 186 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: We had victims from practically every Brazilian stage, by victims 187 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 2: from European countries as well as from the United States, 188 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 2: Australia is there's a predominance there between twenty and thirty 189 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 2: years old, but we have victims of all ages. 190 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 3: They held out to jint Ka di Jija, this Ka 191 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 3: di Didjja, the super Bozaba. 192 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 2: There are reports of children, a teenage girl in a 193 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 2: wheelchair that was abused by him. 194 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: This was the largest sexual abuse case Luciano had ever 195 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: encountered in terms of the amount of victims and span 196 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: of time over which the abuse had occurred. But not 197 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: all of these testimonies would end up in the formal 198 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: case against Joao Lashavimus. 199 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 2: We had over three hundred victims that contacted us, but 200 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 2: I can say more than half of those three hundred 201 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: their cases had already passed the prescriptive period scripts. 202 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: The prescriptive period is what Brazilian law calls the window 203 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: of time the government has to press charges after a 204 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: crime is committed viz. 205 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 2: So, even if the victim gives a statement and has evidence, 206 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 2: the judicial systems can't take action if too much time 207 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 2: has passed since the incident, the statue of limitations prevents. 208 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: This is one of several aspects of this case that 209 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: we're going to make it one of the most challenging 210 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: of Luciano's career. Take for example, the fact that many 211 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: cases of abuse took place while people were in line 212 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,719 Speaker 1: at the Casa and first meeting John of. 213 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: God Leave every love book will say sexual abuse is 214 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 2: a crime that will never be committed in a public square, 215 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 2: in a public environment. 216 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, kiv a pre made of surpriduse. 217 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 2: That's where our first surprise came in. What was Giote 218 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 2: Shieda doing in that same line a Juma's reach. Some 219 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: of the victims were kneeling. He would take the victim's 220 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 2: hand and bring it up to his penis, and the 221 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 2: victim's own body covered the view of those behind it 222 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 2: as it was policy. Victims said to me, doctor, I 223 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 2: couldn't believe that individual. He was talking to me, saying things, 224 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 2: asking random questions and manipulating his genital organs. I just 225 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 2: couldn't understand that situation. And it may seem like such 226 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 2: a unique thing, but we have something like forty reports 227 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: like these from victims. 228 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 3: Hell lot this. 229 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: Another challenge came when Luciano interviewed the victims, because witnesses 230 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: would refer to John of God as Joao and as 231 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: the entity, but they didn't consider them one and the same. 232 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 5: So you were talking to Hida. No, it wasn't with Hida. 233 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 2: The witnesses would respond, it was with the entity. But 234 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 2: who was the entity? Wasn't d Schieda, No, no, it 235 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 2: wasn't drought Schieda. So I had some difficulty at the 236 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 2: beginning to understand. 237 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 3: The Kumbez pretend d. 238 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: Above all, Luciano was very aware of the fact that 239 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: he was prosecuting one of the most powerful men in Brazil. 240 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: He knew he would have to be meticulous as he 241 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: built his case, and the argument he made in court 242 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: would have to be absolutely air tight. 243 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: In the case of Juau, we were very careful not 244 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: to make excessive accusations not to be considered disproportionate and unreasonable, 245 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 2: because if you fail in a single detail, you can 246 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 2: put at stake the whole investigation that was well conducted. 247 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: Luciano knew for a fact this could happen when it 248 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: came to Joao, because it already had. This is the 249 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: second time Joau would be prosecuted for sexual abuse. The 250 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: first time was back in twenty thirteen, in a case 251 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: that said a precedent Luciano would have to overcome. 252 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,119 Speaker 8: And maname Camilla. 253 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 4: My name is Camilla. I'm a lawyer. I live my 254 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 4: entire life in Belarusan Minos Jeds. 255 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: This is Camilla R. We're not sharing her full last 256 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: name out of respect for her privacy. Camilla grew up 257 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: in a very close knit and very Catholic family. 258 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 4: As you said, we have always been a very spiritual family, 259 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 4: always very close, very believing of something bigger. 260 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: She was sixteen when she first heard about John of God. 261 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: At the time, she was suffering from a panic disorder 262 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: that was pretty much taking over her life, anclage. 263 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 4: I was in high school and I wanted to hurt 264 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 4: myself because I had the feeling that I wasn't able 265 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 4: to breathe, and I started to have fear of the 266 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 4: fears Avu cicus. It would become an endless cycle. I 267 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 4: couldn't get better. I was going to a psychiatrist. I 268 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 4: started to take very strong medications and I weighed thirty 269 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 4: nine kilos. 270 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 6: I became a toothpick. 271 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 8: Did you know, Cosigia mel. 272 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 6: We couldn't get me to get better. 273 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: So when a family friend told him about John of 274 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: God and how he was healing people in Abadiana, her 275 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: mother said it was worth a try. 276 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,719 Speaker 4: But at to Jesus is betiful of out of the asperation, 277 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 4: she said, I'm going to take Camilla. So we decided 278 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 4: to go there. I think not even they believed. But 279 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 4: if he was able to cure all those people the 280 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 4: way people said, why wouldn't we go right. 281 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: Lydia, So Kamilla went with her parents to Abadianya. She 282 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: lined up with them to see John of God and 283 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: remembers clearly what happened when it was her turn to 284 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: talk to him. 285 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 6: I cried a lot, a lot, a lot, okay. 286 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 4: And I don't know why, but it was very common 287 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 4: because of my Panic disorder. It was all very common 288 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 4: and then he said that my case was serious. 289 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: So John of God told her to sit and pray 290 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: with the others in the room and to return in 291 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: the afternoon. She returned and when she saw John of 292 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: God again, this time he told her to go see 293 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: him in his office. Camilla went with her father. 294 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 8: You pay a vid. 295 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 4: My whole life my father, he was always very protective, 296 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 4: never slip at a friend's house. I never went out anywhere. Yeah, 297 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 4: he asked me if I wanted him to come in 298 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 4: with me. Without thinking, I said, Dad, you decide if 299 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 4: you want to, and he obviously decided to. 300 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 6: Go in with me. Your interart Comice Camilla. 301 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: Has given very few interviews about what happened next. It's 302 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: still very hard for her to relive that experience or 303 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: to even speak about it, so we told her it 304 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: wasn't necessary to describe it for us. The journalist Christina Phoebe, 305 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: who wrote about Camilla's experience in her book, told us 306 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: about her case, so she summarizes what happened. Once Camilla 307 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: and her father went inside John of God's office. 308 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 9: He closed the door, locked the door, told her father 309 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 9: to turn around and be with his eyes closed, and 310 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 9: then he got very close to Camilla, who was sixtin, 311 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 9: and he told her to close her eyes to and 312 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 9: he started to, you know, his hands going through her, 313 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 9: like going through her breasts and her lower parts. 314 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 3: And she was chief. 315 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 6: She couldn't move. 316 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 9: She froze and she was crying really, really loud. And 317 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 9: her father thought, well, she's having panic attacks. 318 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 6: We are here to solve this problem. 319 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 9: It's very normal that she cries. And John of God 320 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 9: was at the same time that he was touching her, 321 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 9: he was reinforcing close her eyes. Father, don't look father, 322 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 9: you know, because he said and he said that too 323 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 9: many victims that if you open your eyes or if 324 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 9: you do something, you would interrupt the cure, flux, the 325 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 9: energy going there. 326 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: After it all ended, Camilla couldn't bring herself to say anything. 327 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 1: She left with her father just crying uncontrollably. 328 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 10: Memuto Vishi, I was a girl, I was a virgin, 329 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 10: but I knew it was wrong. 330 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 6: In my head. 331 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 4: It was a little confusing because he's such an important person, 332 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 4: don't she. Everybody says he heals, that he's good, that 333 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 4: he's a saint. 334 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 6: How could this be happening to me? 335 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 10: The San Comigo Yo vote and I came back obviously 336 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 10: worse than when I got there. Oh it was she 337 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 10: for a moment, I thought, for a moment that. 338 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 6: Donat that God had abandoned me. 339 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 8: She says a song. She loss. 340 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 4: I felt disgusted with myself, with my hands, with my body, 341 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 4: ok mohe. 342 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 6: And I wanted to die. 343 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: At this point, Kamida took the pills that they had 344 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: bought at the casa and she put them in a 345 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: pile with all the clothes she wore that day. She 346 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: then lit a match and set them all on fire. 347 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: Her mother found her in that panicked state and asked 348 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: her what was happening, and Camilla decided to tell her everything. 349 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 8: Me hasad. 350 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 4: My mother was devastated. My mother cried a lot. My 351 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 4: mother became desperate. She called my father. My father arrived. 352 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 4: He felt like the ground had fallen out from under 353 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 4: him because he he came in to protect me, and 354 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 4: he couldn't do it. At first, He's called me, but 355 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 4: I knew it was an act of desperation too. 356 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 6: She sped a daily. 357 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 4: Why didn't I tell him right away? Why didn't I 358 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 4: say it right away? I couldn't do it. I wasn't 359 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 4: understanding what was going on. Then we were talking thinking 360 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 4: what should we do. We decided to go to the 361 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 4: women's police station and report it. 362 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: This kicked off a very arduous legal process. Unfortunately, that's 363 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: common for victims of sexual abuse who decided to press charges. 364 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,239 Speaker 1: It took a tremendous toll on Camilla. She had to 365 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: endure medical examinations and tell the story multiple times of 366 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: what happened to her to authorities. 367 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 4: You know that when we went to make a complaint 368 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 4: that the police station, ours was the first mass to 369 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 4: claim six name him. There was a criminal charge for fraud, 370 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 4: but not for sexual crimes. 371 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Kamida developed seizures and she was having a really 372 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: difficult time sleeping. Her father was also receiving mysterious phone 373 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: calls from people threatening. 374 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 8: Him a message. 375 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 4: It was messages, calls that said things like you don't 376 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 4: know who you're messing with. You should stop with that 377 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 4: sab Thanks to that effect, you know. 378 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: Four years after the abuse took place, it was finally 379 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: time for the trial. 380 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 6: The lawyers on the. 381 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 4: Other side made me feel as if I was wrong, 382 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 4: as if it were part of a spiritual. 383 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 6: Procedure mono mica. 384 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 4: It was all very mechanical very impersonal, Sael. 385 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 6: You know, very cruel. 386 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: Nine months after the hearing, Camilla heard that the judge 387 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: had made a decision. John of God was found not. 388 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 10: Guilty Yeshuz Cuno Santois and the judge who absolved him. 389 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 4: In the sentence, she said that she understood that the 390 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 4: abuse happened, but that I wasn't in danger because my 391 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 4: father was in the room. I could have asked him 392 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 4: for help, Asika made, basically saying I accepted it. 393 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: The prosecution appealed, but they lost again that time because 394 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: the defense argued Camilla's panic disorder made her testimony unreliable. 395 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, think to I had lived years and years 396 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 8: and years of my life thinking that I had been 397 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 8: the one person is chosen to live through. 398 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: This until almost a decade later. 399 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. 400 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 6: Exkiss Swissish and then I will never forget that day. 401 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 4: I was at home. My father was in his room 402 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 4: watching television. I was in the living room. My father 403 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 4: called me. He said, look at what's on TV. And 404 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 4: it was a hero talking on the Bil Show about 405 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 4: the complaint of her case. At that moment, my heart raised. 406 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 4: I started to feel sick because everything I believed in 407 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 4: for years of my life, thinking that I was discredited, 408 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 4: thinking that it was just me. There were other women 409 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 4: who had experienced the same thing, and then my world 410 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 4: changed overnight. 411 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 8: No for Soil, It wasn't just me, No for Soil. 412 00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: For kid May who processed Emila's trial. If he had 413 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 2: been convicted in that case, more than one hundred victims 414 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 2: would not have been abusedas. 415 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: Eventually, Camilla would end up talking to Luciano and the 416 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: task Force. Her case would prove instrumental to the prosecution. 417 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 2: Strategy the CaMLA. Because I studied Camilla's case, I realized 418 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 2: that it was the same judge who was assigned to 419 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 2: our case. 420 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 1: That's right a trial Luciano would face the same judge 421 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: who a decade earlier found Joao innocent. Next time, on 422 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: two Faced John of God, Luciano and his team take 423 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: John of God to court and we wrestle with the 424 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: outcome of his case. 425 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,239 Speaker 4: Caso, he heard a lot of people, He caused a 426 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 4: lot of pain. 427 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 8: Sos Key can conseil. 428 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 4: And a lot of people who can that they were 429 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 4: unable to go on. 430 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 6: With their lives and turn the page. 431 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,360 Speaker 4: There's still tour groups there, and I just think it's 432 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 4: terribly dangerous. 433 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 11: People told me that he insists that the entities are 434 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 11: telling him he's going to go back to the case. 435 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 11: So he's very very clever. I mean no successor I'm 436 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 11: coming back. 437 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:33,239 Speaker 1: You wait. Listen to Two Faced John of God on 438 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 439 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 6: There. 440 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: You can also find this show en Espanol. Just look 441 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: for those goddas. Juan de Dios. Two Faced John of 442 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: God is a production of Exactly Right Media and Adon 443 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: de Media, hosted and written by myself Martina Castro. Our 444 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: senior producer is Mariano Paschela, Reporting and fact checking by 445 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: Eloisa Trajano. Production assistance and research by Giovanna Romano Sanchez. 446 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: Sound designed by Maurcio Mendoza and our mastering engineer is 447 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: Martine Grus. Original music was composed by Mariana Romano. The 448 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: artwork is by Vanessa Lilac Luciano. Miranda was interpreted by 449 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:18,719 Speaker 1: Andres Gabacheedo and Camilla r by Laura Ubate. For Exactly 450 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: Right Media, the executive producers are Karen Kilgariff, Georgia hard 451 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: Stark and Danielle Kramer, with consulting producer Lillie Ladowick and 452 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: associate producer j Elias. When this story broke, it led 453 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: many people to realize they too had been victims of 454 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: sexual violence. If you find that you need to talk 455 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: to someone after hearing the stories we shared today, you 456 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: can chat with someone for free and confidentially at rain 457 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: dot org. That's r a i N N dot o RG. 458 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: Everyone we spoke with for this podcast says the most 459 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: important thing to do as a survivor is to use 460 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: the power of your voice to get counseling and start 461 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: the process of healing.