1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: noon Eastern on Appocarplay and then Prounoto with the Bloomberg 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube in Washington. 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Monday edition of Ballots of Power. I'm 7 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: Joe Matthew. We'll have Kaylee Lines with us next hour 8 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: here on Bloomberg Radio, on the satellite, and on YouTube, 9 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 2: where we invite you to join us every day. We're 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 2: live on YouTube right now search Bloomberg Global News. That's 11 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 2: what all the kids are doing. Kind of amazing to 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 2: see senators working on Super Bowl Sunday. 13 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 3: It actually happened. 14 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: They weren't there during the game, but they showed up 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: when you were probably getting your Guacamolean chips ready. And 16 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: they did advance this bill. It hasn't passed the full set, 17 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: but they had a procedural vote and it went pretty 18 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: well for those looking to help fund our allies in Ukraine, Israel, 19 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: and Taiwan. 20 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 3: Sixty seven twenty seven. 21 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,199 Speaker 2: A lot of folks think this could pass the full Senate, 22 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: and that would happen no later than Wednesday, and we're 23 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 2: right back to where we were on Friday with the same. 24 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 3: Question what happens when it goes to the House. 25 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: I guess it's a good thing though, that they didn't 26 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 2: have to, you know, get up early and go to 27 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 2: work today, as I read on the terminal that this 28 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 2: is one of the least productive work days of the 29 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 2: year because of the football game. Jack Fitzpatrick came to work. 30 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 2: He's with us now from Bloomberg Government. You saw the game, 31 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,839 Speaker 2: you came in right, I'm here, They say, even those 32 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 2: who will because sixteen million people will skip work today, 33 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: the rest of us will be much less productive, apparently 34 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: because of the choices we made last night. 35 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 3: I hope you're feeling okay. 36 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 4: And yet the Senate is actually going to work late. 37 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 4: They can't vote until eight thirty or so, so they're 38 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 4: working hard on Sunday and then. 39 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 3: They get to sleep in day. 40 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: That is kind of a big deal, though, for Chuck 41 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: Schumer to pull everybody together on a Super Bowl Sunday 42 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 2: to make this happen. Would that suggest that it will 43 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 2: pass the full Senate? 44 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 4: I mean, the fact that they've gotten sixty seven votes 45 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,399 Speaker 4: on two procedural votes. At this point that may be 46 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 4: more of a ceiling than a floor. People still could 47 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 4: get upset if they don't get an amendment vote. They 48 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 4: were seeking that kind of thing. But clearing sixty twice 49 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 4: on two key procedural votes, I mean clearly this is 50 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 4: moving slowly because there are members who won't give unanimous consent, 51 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 4: but they look like they can get this through the Senate. 52 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 4: The question then is also how much momentum does it 53 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 4: have going into the House. Sixty seven is not eighty 54 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 4: or ninety. The House issues are still there fair. 55 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 3: Enough before we move to the House. 56 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: There were questions last week about amendments, how that might 57 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: slow things down, whether there might be some border related 58 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: provisions that are added to this, And then there was 59 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: a man named ran Paul who wanted it to block 60 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: this or slow it down to the extent that he could. 61 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: Is that why we're not getting unanimous consent? 62 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 4: Yes, Ran Paul is at least one reason why we 63 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 4: don't have unanimous consent. If you've got one person saying 64 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 4: he's not gonna agree, it's kind of a moot point. 65 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 4: How many people aren't agreeing, so they're going through step 66 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 4: by step. Chuck Schumer has still said he would like 67 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 4: an agreement on which amendments could get votes. But if 68 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 4: there's not a unanimous consent agreement, it's unclear what the 69 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 4: path forward is other than it's going to be slowed 70 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 4: down and then they can force a final vote. It 71 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 4: looks like Wednesday, So you know, do they increase support 72 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 4: between now and then? Is there a rallying cry? Are 73 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 4: there further amendment votes? Anyway to improve it? From members' perspectives, 74 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 4: That's what's unclear because usually when they have an important bill, 75 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 4: they find a way to get unanimous consent and get 76 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 4: everybody to agree on the slate of amendment votes. 77 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: But that is not happening here, not going to happen, 78 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: and when it goes to the House, knowing eighteen, I 79 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 2: believe Republican senators voted yes in this last round? 80 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 3: Is that last one? 81 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 5: Check? 82 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 3: Seventeen? Okay? 83 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: A discharge petition in the House requires two hundred and eighteen. 84 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: I'm I'm comparing apples and oranges here. 85 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 3: But you talked about momentum. You get eighty or ninety. 86 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 3: Are we in a. 87 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 2: World in which a discharge petition? I know this is wonky. 88 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 2: Stuff could actually work around Speaker Johnson if he doesn't 89 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: want to bring this to the floor and supporters who 90 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: back it do. 91 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 4: I mean, first, a discharge petition usually is useful if 92 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 4: the leadership wants an excuse to end up supporting something, 93 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 4: if you force their hand, and then they can say, oh, 94 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 4: you force want hand. The fact that there's been some 95 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 4: pushback or at least skepticism. We talked last week about 96 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 4: Mike Rogers, the House Armed Services Chair, saying if we 97 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 4: don't have an immigration deal, and we don't, it's not 98 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 4: clear how you can move this forward. There's not a 99 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 4: huge push in the House right now from even the 100 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 4: most supportive members. That's the big issue because if the 101 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 4: leadership aligned and sort of neo conservative hawks of the 102 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 4: party aren't making a major push, the options for a 103 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 4: discharge petition are an uphill battle. 104 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 2: It's entirely likely this thing passes the Senate and it 105 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 2: just goes nowhere after that, then, right. 106 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 4: That may be the most likely option. It's hard to 107 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 4: make a prediction here. Again, how much momentum it has 108 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 4: coming out of the Senate, how much pressure is put 109 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 4: on leadership, on key committee leaders like Mike Rodgers and 110 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 4: other people's people who are supportive of this kind of bill. 111 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 4: That's the big X factor here. But it is a 112 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 4: much heavier lift in the House than it has been 113 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 4: in the Senate, where it's you know, sixty seven isn't 114 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 4: way more than sixty They need sixty they're getting sixty seven. Again, 115 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 4: it's not eighty or ninety. 116 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 2: Three weeks to my account, till the government shutdown. 117 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 3: No one's talking about it. 118 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: I keep asking people about it, like, oh, no, they're 119 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 2: gonna figure it out. 120 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 3: But then it's gonna be two weeks. Then it's gonna 121 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 3: be one week, and what's gonna happen. 122 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's easy to lose track of time because that 123 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 4: is March first, for the first partial shutdown deadline, and 124 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 4: then March eighth. I've been asking consistently the subcommittee leaders 125 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 4: who are supposed to write the bills to get this done. 126 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 4: Generally they say it's going pretty well, but the big 127 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 4: hurdle is there's not a grand agreement to set aside 128 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 4: major policy fights. Usually when they get an omnibus or 129 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 4: some sort of means of funding the government, initially they say, 130 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 4: all right, we're not going to legislate on abortion, access 131 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 4: or immigration or any of the other many really tough issues. 132 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 4: We're just going to do our best to agree to 133 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 4: funding levels. They have not had that kind of conversation, 134 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 4: so any number of really tough issues could trip them up. 135 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 4: But what I've heard from members is they have not 136 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 4: gotten tripped up yet and they're being productive. 137 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 2: All right, Optimism still alive. Great to see you, Jack, 138 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: I hope you find a chance to recuperate at some 139 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 2: point today. They're working late, Like you said, a thirty 140 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 2: to night. Jack will be with them as always at Bloomberg. 141 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: Government Congress reporter and a frequent voice on this program, 142 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 2: Balance of Power. Let's add the voice of Bill Hoglan. 143 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: We wanted to go to the Bipartisan Policy Center for 144 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: a bit of a reality check and what's happening here 145 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 2: because the two chambers don't agree, and of course we 146 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 2: can get inside divisions within the individual caucuses as well. 147 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,239 Speaker 2: But Bill's been watching this for a couple of minutes, 148 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: you might say, following his experience in the Senate. 149 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 3: And it's good to have you back. Bill. I hope 150 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:06,799 Speaker 3: you've recovered from the game. 151 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 2: Not too often you see senators at work on a 152 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: Super Bowl Sunday. 153 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 3: Were you encouraged. 154 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 6: Yes, this was the first one. I believe it's the 155 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 6: first time they've ever worked on a Super Bowl Funday Sunday. 156 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 6: But of course they journed in time to at least 157 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 6: see at least second half of the Super Bowl, as 158 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 6: I understand. 159 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 2: Well, God bless him. Now they've got some real work 160 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: to do this week. Do you see this bill following 161 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: the procedural votes that have already occurred, and I know 162 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 2: there are more to follow. They have to get the 163 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: Shell Bill and do some other wonky stuff. But when 164 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: this reaches the floor, will it pass? 165 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 6: That Senate will pass this supplemental likely it'll have to 166 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 6: go all the way to Wednesday. They're still trying to 167 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 6: work out a set of amendments and maybe not have 168 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 6: any amendments. But the thirty hours post the vote on 169 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 6: Sunday run out on Wednesday, and by then they will 170 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 6: pass it. There it's clear it's going to go over 171 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 6: to the House. Now, the question, as you've raised in 172 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 6: your earlier comments, about what will happen in the House 173 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 6: is still very much up in the air. I think 174 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 6: mister the new Speaker is trying to figure out himself 175 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 6: as to what strategy he wants to pursue. I believe 176 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 6: that there are clearly if it was put to a 177 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 6: vote in the House of Representatives, it would help overwhelmingly pass. 178 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 6: So there are various approaches he could take, but I 179 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 6: mentioned one of them, which was a discharge petition. I 180 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 6: think there will be the votes there for discard petition, 181 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 6: subject to whether or not the Speaker has an alternative 182 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 6: that he wants to bring it to the floor, but 183 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 6: it will get I'm truly expected to make it to 184 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 6: the floor at some point now. The other option is 185 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 6: for him to simply strip it all out and send 186 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 6: back the send it back to the Senate, and the 187 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 6: Senate amend it, and then it comes back. So yeah, 188 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 6: we'll get there, I believe at the end of the day, 189 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 6: though it's going to take a little bit of a struggle. 190 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 6: And of course, the Senate goes out here after they 191 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 6: pass this on Wednesday or whenever they get around to 192 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 6: passing it, and they'll be out until after for another 193 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 6: week and a half. And then of course this House 194 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 6: is out for present day recess starting next week for 195 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 6: two weeks, so there's there's not a lot of time 196 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 6: here to to get this done, but I am I'm 197 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 6: an optimist on this one today. 198 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 2: Well, this is a familiar feeling, Bill Hoagland. He's with 199 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 2: us from the Bipartisan Policy Center. I hope you can 200 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 2: hear me a little bit better now, Bill, because I 201 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: want to ask you about Mitch McConnell. Really something watching 202 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 2: him try to push this legislation and also cope with 203 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 2: reality at the same time. And his frustration is pretty clear, 204 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 2: as he said to Lament the commitment that has underpinned 205 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: the longest draft of great power conflict in human history. 206 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 2: This is idle work for idle minds, and it has 207 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 2: no place in the US Senate. He's talking about what 208 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 2: he refers to as how it's become quite fashionable to 209 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 2: disregard the global interests we have as a global power. 210 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: Is Mitch McConnell going to be disappointed at the end 211 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 2: of this bill? 212 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 6: The election is a driving factor for policies decisions right 213 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 6: now an election year, it always is difficult to get 214 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 6: policy done. But I'm rather discouraged, as an old Senate staffer, 215 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 6: that we're letting politics play such a big role in 216 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 6: such things as the immigration bill last week, which was 217 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 6: a bipartisan effort on the part of some good senators 218 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 6: in the United States, both Republicans and Democrats, to bring 219 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 6: something to the floor. I'm a little discouraged about the 220 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 6: degree to which the potential presidential nominee, mister Trump, is 221 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 6: having such an impact upon policies right now when actions 222 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 6: should be taking place and we should be legislating and 223 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 6: putting off at least until after the election as to 224 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 6: what the next policy should be. 225 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 2: You think we're going to have a government shutdown next month. 226 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 6: That's a good question. I do think that we hit 227 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 6: We've already run out of time here. As I said 228 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 6: that March March first date is coming very quickly, at 229 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 6: least on the four bills that have to be done 230 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 6: by March first. At this particular moment, I'm beginning to anticipate, 231 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 6: since it's very little that's happened in the way of 232 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 6: actually acting on those bills in the House and the Senate, 233 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 6: that we're probably looking at another kicking of the can, 234 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 6: both on the March first and the March eighth. Or again. 235 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 6: I'm one of those who really believes that a government 236 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 6: shut down, particularly in an election year, benefits no one a 237 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 6: no political party, and so I do think we're looking 238 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 6: at another continuation resolution at least until the end of April, 239 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 6: when certain things start to really happened under the new 240 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 6: Fiscal Responsibility Act that was adopted last year, which means 241 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 6: across the board cuts beginning in April. So I do 242 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 6: think they're going to try to get these bills done, 243 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 6: but they're not going to get them done by March 244 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 6: the first. Right now, given the schedules that recesses and 245 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 6: the president's recess and other things that are going on. 246 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 2: Donald Trump has had a heavy hand over these negotiations 247 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 2: without even being on Capitol Hill. Build To what extent 248 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 2: do you think he'll impact a final product here when 249 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: it comes to Ukraine specifically. 250 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 6: Well, I think we've already started to see the impact 251 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 6: that he has had on such things as the immigration 252 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 6: bill last week that was brought to the floor. I 253 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 6: believe that post Super Tuesday, when he should have if 254 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 6: mister Trump does at that particular point to the former 255 00:12:55,160 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 6: president have the requisite number of electoral bologists votes, lucked 256 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 6: Delegate luck in that it will now become basically his 257 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 6: policies for the rest for Republicans that are towing to 258 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 6: his re election, it will really make it very difficult 259 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 6: to get any bipartisan work done here. Keep in mind 260 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 6: that we also have a situation here of course, as 261 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 6: you know, we have an election tomorrow and mister Santos's 262 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 6: position being up for election, that is, last time I 263 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 6: looked at the post would indicate that that might flip 264 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 6: to a Democratic seat, which would really change the model, 265 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 6: change the make it even more difficult for mister Johnson 266 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 6: to get work done. So I want to be I 267 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 6: want to be I want to be an optimist, but 268 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 6: I can tell you right now that politics are really 269 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 6: starting to dominate this whole agenda for legislative agenda for 270 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 6: the rest of the year. And as one who still 271 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 6: believes that we have to legislate even in an election year, 272 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 6: this is very disappointing to me. 273 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard to ignore. Bill Hoagland. Great to see you. Bill. 274 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Ken 275 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then 276 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: roun Oo with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also 277 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 278 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven. 279 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 2: Thirty Interesting reading the write ups on the Trump NATO 280 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 2: comments this morning, shutters. I read across Europe the way 281 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 2: the Washington Post put it tremors the word they chose 282 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 2: across Washington and in European countries already worried about America's 283 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 2: reliability as an ally and a potential second Trump administration. 284 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 2: This was in South Conway, South Carolina, where the former 285 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 2: president made the remarks about countries paying their fair share. 286 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 2: If I can use that phrase to NATO, and he 287 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 2: took it a step further here he is from South Carolina. 288 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 3: Let's listen. 289 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 7: I said, you got to pay up. They asked me 290 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 7: that question. One of the presidents of a big country 291 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 7: stood up, said, well, sir, if we don't pay and 292 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 7: we're attacked by Russia, will you protect us? I said, 293 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 7: you didn't pay your delinquent. He said yes, let's say 294 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 7: that happened. No, I would not protect you. In fact, 295 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 7: I would encourage them to do whatever. 296 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 2: The hell they want, whatever the hell they want. The 297 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 2: line that is still echoing across Washington and European capitals 298 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 2: as we assemble our panel, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzeno 299 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: or with us Bloomberg Politics contributors. Genie is great to 300 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 2: have you back. We missed you the end of last week. 301 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 2: This is the kind of stuff that Joe Biden is 302 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 2: talking about. But if you read the polls, voters would 303 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 2: suggest to you that this kind of talk doesn't matter. 304 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: We saw this side of Donald Trump in a first administer. 305 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: It doesn't seem to bother a lot of Republicans about 306 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: a second one, does it. 307 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 5: It doesn't so far. But first of all, can we 308 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 5: just clarify that NATO is not some kind of golf 309 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 5: course where you pay dues, So right there, he is 310 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 5: factually wrong. I'm not sure if that matters. Number two, 311 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 5: the irony of this coming from a man who famously 312 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 5: doesn't pay people in his own businesses and his vendors. So, 313 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 5: you know, so much of this just rings narcissism, But 314 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 5: you get to the reality of the facts on the ground. 315 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,119 Speaker 5: And this is what he has been saying and promising 316 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 5: for some time, this threat of moving us out of NATO, 317 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 5: of weakening NATO. And that's why so many people, including 318 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 5: the Wall Street Journal editorial page, are responding so forcefully. Because, 319 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 5: of course, from our founding, we have depended on allies 320 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 5: to help us achieve our national security and economic goals 321 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 5: without those allies, how do we combat China, for instance, 322 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 5: in the China Sea, How do we combat the Hutis 323 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 5: in the Middle East? You know, we depend on allies, 324 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 5: and of course how do we combat who And as 325 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,479 Speaker 5: he tries to move into Europe, so we do have 326 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 5: to take him at his word, even though factually it 327 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 5: is wildly incorrect what he's saying. 328 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 2: Well, I have to be honest with you, Rick, I 329 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 2: wonder if he even said it right. This does sound 330 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 2: like somebody who's showing off at a party trying to 331 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 2: impress his friends. Yeah, I said, whatever the hell they want. 332 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 2: I don't know what version of it was said. But 333 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 2: when you draw response from the Secretary General at NATO, 334 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 2: you know you're rattling cages here Again, Stoltenberg says, any 335 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 2: suggestion allies will not defend each other undermines all of 336 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 2: our security, including that of the US. 337 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 3: What's your reaction. 338 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 8: Yeah, Look, I think yeah in Sultenberg has the right approach. Look, 339 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 8: and I wouldn't worry about it so much. The side 340 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 8: of hyperbolic things that Donald Trump says, except for the 341 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 8: fact that he actually acts on them, I mean you know, 342 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 8: when he was resident, he did cuddle up to his 343 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 8: favorite dictator, Vladimir Putin, And everything we've learned about him 344 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 8: is that he puts our enemies ahead of our allies, 345 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 8: and this is just another example of that, and he 346 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 8: does it in tangible ways. So yeah, I mean, maybe 347 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 8: it's just quote like he likes to use locker. 348 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 3: Room talk showing off at a cocktail party. 349 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 8: But the reality is it's borne out by our experience. 350 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 8: And this is a lot different than in the old 351 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 8: days of complaining that the UN doesn't use our funding 352 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 8: successfully and that we ought to withhold it until they're 353 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 8: more efficient. This is a security program based on all 354 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 8: our self interests. The countries within NATO protect one another 355 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 8: and the other. They are a much more significant force 356 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 8: than any of their individual economies or militaries. And so 357 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 8: maybe he just doesn't understand the basic concept behind NATO. 358 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 8: But the problem is if he doesn't understand it by now, 359 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 8: after being commander in chief for four years, then why 360 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 8: in the world will we think he would abide by 361 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 8: it in the future. 362 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 2: Nicki Haley was asked about it on Bloomberg this morning. 363 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 3: Genie. 364 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 2: She said, it's a mistake for Trump to side with 365 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 2: Putin over our allies. Isn't this a big opportunity for her, 366 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 2: as his former UN ambassador to draw contrast? 367 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 5: It absolutely is. And you know, Joe Matthew, I'm surprised 368 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 5: you don't believe that some leader of a big European 369 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 5: country didn't stand up and say, dear Sir Donald Trump, 370 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 5: do you believe this? I mean, you know, from start 371 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 5: to finish this stake story is amusing if it wasn't 372 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,719 Speaker 5: so serious. And to your point, Nikki Haley does have 373 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 5: an opportunity here to make it clear. And this is 374 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 5: what I think is missing in all of this is 375 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 5: Donald Trump as usual is reflecting the view of a 376 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 5: good segment of the Republican Party on the far right 377 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 5: that has long been isolationist. And you can talk to 378 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 5: people today. They don't, you know, know about how much 379 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 5: who owes what to wear, but they do have a 380 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 5: question as to why, when we're suffering at home, our 381 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 5: money should be going abroad. And that is something that 382 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 5: Nicki Haley and others in the Republican and Democratic Party, 383 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 5: including our President, have got to explain. Why is it 384 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 5: in our interest to send this money to help Ukraine 385 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 5: in this fight, and they can start with the simple 386 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 5: fact that NATO has like, what over fifty percent of 387 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 5: the GDP in the world, you know, so there are 388 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 5: facts on the ground to support what we're doing. It's 389 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 5: in our interest, but you can't expect people to know 390 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 5: that if you don't explain it. 391 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 392 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Emo CarPlay, and 393 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: then freud out with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on 394 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live 395 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: on YouTube. 396 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 9: It's been a week over the last week in which 397 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 9: we've been very focused on domestic politics, but specifically the 398 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 9: Senate's efforts in the last over the course of last weekend, 399 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 9: even through the first half of the Super Bowl to 400 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 9: try to pass an aid package that's going to have 401 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 9: funding not just for Ukraine but also for Israel at 402 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 9: a time where we're seeing things getting perhaps a little 403 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 9: bit more contentious between Israel and the Biden administration with 404 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 9: their handling of the ongoing war with a moss in Gaza. 405 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 2: We heard from Benjamin dat Ya, who on Sunday morning, 406 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 2: which was illuminating now as the IDF turns to the 407 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 2: south and they go to Rafa. You remember we're talking 408 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 2: a lot about the Rafa Gates. 409 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 3: That's right on the border with Egypt. 410 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 2: That's a critical area and that's where a lot of 411 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 2: civilians had evacuated too. 412 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 9: Right, and where they're going to member AID through. 413 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 2: Absolutely right, because the bombing was happening in the north. 414 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 2: So this is creating a potentially deadly situation. I guess 415 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 2: dozens of civilians are said to have been killed already, 416 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 2: but I haven't seen a hard number on that from 417 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 2: the government. I mentioned Benjamin Dettanya, who we was on 418 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 2: ABC News ABC this Week with George Stephanopp is talking 419 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 2: about the action in Rafa and the urging from the 420 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 2: Biden administration, the urging for restraint. 421 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 3: Here's what he said. 422 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 10: Well, Rafa is a very small percentage of Gaza, and 423 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 10: I think it's about ten percent or fifteen percent. 424 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 3: I mean the estimates. 425 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 10: We are very north of Gaza that has already been cleared. 426 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 2: Well, there's an estimate one point four million people in 427 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 2: that area right now. And as the as the German 428 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 2: Foreign Minister said, they can't can't they can't just disappear. 429 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 3: Where are they supposed to go. 430 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 10: No, well, the areas that we've cleared north of Ralfa 431 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 10: are plenty of areas there, but we are working out 432 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 10: a detailed plan to do so. 433 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 2: This is where we begin our conversation with Higgarshamali, founder 434 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 2: of Greenwich Media Strategies and a voice of experience in 435 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 2: the White House as former director for Syria and Lebanon 436 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 2: of the National Security Council of Guard. 437 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 3: It's great to see you. 438 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 2: I wonder how concerned you are now about this new 439 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 2: direction that the IDEF is taking to the south. Is 440 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 2: it possible for them to protect civilians or create new 441 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 2: health minetarian corridors at the same time. 442 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 11: It's difficult because they have a very short amount of 443 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 11: time and what they want to do in Rafa. The 444 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 11: reason they're going to Rafa at all is because they 445 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 11: weren't able to complete the operation that they foresaw in 446 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 11: han Yunis. Hanyunis is a Hamas stronghold in the south 447 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 11: of Gaza. It was believed that that was likely where 448 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 11: Hamas leaders were hiding and they didn't find them, particularly 449 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 11: y Yahya Sinhar, who's one of the top Hamas commanders 450 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 11: and who's believed to really be the mastermind between behind 451 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 11: October seven, and so that's why they want to move 452 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,239 Speaker 11: on to Rafa. But the problem is they have as 453 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 11: you as you've reported before, one point four million. I've 454 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 11: seen numbers up to one point five million. That is 455 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 11: a significant number of Gazans when you're talking about the 456 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 11: total population of Gaza being two point two million individuals, 457 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 11: So that means that the vast majority went into Rafa 458 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 11: squeezed down there. As it is, situation there is very dire. 459 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 11: They are in very in conditions that are really not clean, 460 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 11: not sanitary, not safely, not healthy for children and families. 461 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 11: And when you're talking about pursuing an operation and they 462 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 11: need to pursue those operations quickly, they've already started as 463 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 11: we've seen today, you don't have time really to move. 464 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 11: It's a nice talking point to say, don't worry, we're 465 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,239 Speaker 11: going to move everybody north, or we're going to move 466 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 11: them to designated areas. The designated area that I saw 467 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 11: in Israeli press reporting was the size of Bengorian Airport. 468 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 11: But there's no way that one point four million people 469 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 11: can move easily to that area and fit in that 470 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 11: area and be taken care of in a dignified way, 471 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 11: and so I'm very concerned that this is going to 472 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 11: cause chaos. And the US government has said that. Both 473 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 11: President Biden, the US and ambassador have come out very 474 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 11: clearly on this. 475 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 9: Yeah, you're absolutely right. It seems Biden has sharpened in 476 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 9: many ways his language around Israel and what it should 477 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 9: do in recent days. And yet it doesn't necessarily seem 478 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 9: that Bibi Netanyahu is hearing that message. We heard from 479 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 9: him on the Sunday shows over the weekend. He also 480 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 9: said those who say that under no circumstances should we 481 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 9: enter Rafa are basically saying, lose the war. Keep Hamas 482 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 9: there is that effectively what the administration is telling. 483 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 11: Israel no what the you know? And and I see 484 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 11: when I heard that, and I thought that was not 485 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 11: fair to say publicly, because the Israeli government knows exactly 486 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 11: what the US government is saying. And what the US 487 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 11: is trying to say is, listen, you have to prioritize 488 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 11: your threats and is this threat worth going after? And 489 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 11: that's how, by the way, that's how the US pursues war. 490 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 11: Is the threat going worth going after? Given the collateral 491 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 11: damage you expect to happen, given how many number of 492 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 11: civilians you know will die, or given how what it 493 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 11: will be like for these civilians who've moved there to 494 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,360 Speaker 11: uproot yet again and to go where exactly. I heard 495 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 11: the Israel government. I heard b Natziaho come out and 496 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 11: he said today I believe that that he agreed with 497 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 11: the Americans. But again, I mean, I have to have 498 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 11: to he agreed on it's very much public talking point. 499 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 11: He said, he agreed on the protection of civilians, and 500 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 11: therefore they would continue going to Rafa, but that they 501 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 11: assured everyone they would set up something very solid and 502 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 11: stable for those civilians there. But there is a reality 503 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 11: to this, and that is that it's one point four 504 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 11: to one point five million people. It's no joke, and 505 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 11: they've already gone into Rafa. And so the US what 506 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 11: they're trying to say is is this threat really worth? 507 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 11: And I'll give you an example of that. When we 508 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 11: had our war against ISIS and we defeated isis that 509 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 11: nobody can can can question that ISIS fighters still exist. 510 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 11: We know that it doesn't necessarily mean you have to 511 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 11: go every single after every single cell, after every single 512 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 11: fighter or battalion to defeat to actually have a tactical victory, 513 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 11: and you have to weigh the pros and cons and 514 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 11: the benefits of each of each operation. And that's what 515 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 11: the US is saying, is that this one has to 516 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 11: quote President Biden, was over the top. That's exactly what 517 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 11: he said, and that's what he meant. 518 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 2: Regard to Israeli men who were held hostage for well 519 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 2: months at this point, going back to October seventh, were 520 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 2: rescued last night. That headline seems to have been obscured 521 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 2: by the rest of what we're talking about. I wonder 522 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 2: what that tells you about the potential for other Special 523 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 2: Forces raids like this to get other hostages out if 524 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 2: there is no ceasefire. 525 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 11: You know, I'm glad you mentioned how that news has 526 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 11: been drowned out because there are a lot of headlines 527 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 11: will have been focusing. They'll say there was this operation 528 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 11: where dozens were killed, and a lot of the headlines 529 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 11: are missing. That there were two hostages released in this 530 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 11: in this raid in an apartment where they were found, 531 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 11: which is just fantastic news. It's great news that they 532 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 11: found them and that they released them, and it boosts 533 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 11: morale and hope for a lot of these families, of course, 534 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 11: and for the military to pursue similar operations. The fact 535 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 11: is it will be hard to release the remaining and 536 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 11: there are about one hundred and thirty estimated to be 537 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 11: about one hundred and thirty, and we saw news last 538 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 11: week saying that about fifty have have have likely died, 539 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 11: and that's coming from the Israeli government. It would be 540 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 11: very difficult, unfortunately, to release the remaining in raids. If 541 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 11: you just look at the history, they were only able 542 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 11: to release actively release one hostage before this, and the 543 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 11: other hostages have gone through the prisoner or hostage prisoner swap. 544 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 11: And now now to that point, those talks continue even 545 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 11: though you saw headlines last week saying that Netanyahu rejected 546 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 11: Hamas's latest counter offer. That's typically how these how these 547 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 11: negotiations go Israel. 548 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 9: So you still have hope that a deal like that 549 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 9: can be made despite Israel's pushback. 550 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 11: Yes, I do have hope for a few reasons. First, 551 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 11: because the talks we do no continue. In fact, Hamas 552 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 11: sent a delegation to Cairo to continue to follow up 553 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 11: on their counter proposal, so that's that's one. And their 554 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 11: counter offer did not include a demand for a permanent ceasefire. 555 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 11: It would include a permanent ceasefire, a demand for a 556 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 11: permanentcy's fire to release all the hostages. But anyway, I digress. 557 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 11: So that's one reason talks continue. The second is that 558 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 11: the Hamas and the Israeli government face a lot of 559 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 11: pressure on both sides domestically, on the Israeli side to 560 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 11: prioritize the release of hostages and on the Hama side 561 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 11: to end this war altogether. And most Gosins have said, 562 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 11: or at least those that we've seen who have been 563 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 11: in the streets saying just release the captives. They tie 564 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 11: the two together, and that is a correct assertion to 565 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 11: tie the two together. So they're both facing this ongoing pressure, 566 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 11: and you've seen them in the past agree to the 567 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 11: principle of a ceasefire and hostage prisoner swap, so there's 568 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 11: no reason it can't happen again. But you have to 569 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 11: understand that from the Israeli government side, they do believe 570 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 11: and a lot of US generals agree with this, that 571 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 11: this continued, the continued aggression and what you're seeing from 572 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 11: the Israeli side, this brutal campaign, that it also further 573 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 11: increases the pressure on hamas to move toward a deal, 574 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 11: and so that's also why you see that strategy from 575 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 11: the Israeli government side the Guard. 576 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 3: It's great to see you. 577 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 2: She's the founder of Greenwich Media Strategies at Gar Shamali. 578 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 2: We appreciate your expertise always when you join us here 579 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 2: on Bloomberg. Nick Wadhams is with us now as we 580 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 2: add the voice of our National Security team leader. He's 581 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 2: with us at the table and it's good to see you. 582 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 3: Nick. Thanks for joining. 583 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 2: Did you see Donald Trump in South Carolina over the weekend. 584 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 12: I did, Oh, we did that. 585 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm gonna I'm going to let our listeners and 586 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 2: viewers have a taste and we'll have you respond. This 587 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 2: is the comment on NATO, of course, and whether our 588 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 2: allies are paying their fair share or something like that. 589 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 2: Here's Donald Trump from South Carolina. 590 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 7: And I said, you got to pay up. They asked 591 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 7: me that question. One of the presidents of a big 592 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 7: country stood up, said, well, sir, if we don't pay 593 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 7: and we're attacked by Russia, will you protect us? I said, 594 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 7: you didn't pay your delinquent. He said, yes, let's say 595 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 7: that happened. 596 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 3: No, I would not protect you. 597 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 7: In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the 598 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 7: hell they want. 599 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 9: Encourage, yes, not just allowed, actively encourage Nick is something 600 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 9: else entirely. What has the response been in the national 601 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 9: security community here in Washington to this. 602 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 12: The response has been, as you would predict, some exasperation, horror. 603 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 12: I mean, listen, though you do. There are a couple 604 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 12: of things about this that we have to take into account. 605 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 12: One is is this actually true? Did this conversation actually happen? 606 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 12: Which is not one hundred percent clear. I mean, we 607 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 12: know that Donald Trump for a long time has been 608 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 12: extremely skeptical of NATO. There was a big NATO meeting 609 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 12: in twenty eighteen where he made a lot of threats 610 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 12: and really threatened to blow things up, but then came around. 611 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 12: But certainly we'd never heard anything like this before. But 612 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 12: we are still in the process of trying to figure 613 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 12: out whether this is an anecdote where he maybe went 614 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 12: a little bit too far to whip up. 615 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 3: The crowd, or he would never do I you know, even. 616 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 12: You know, we there were a lot of things we 617 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 12: thought would never happen that did end up happening. So 618 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 12: we're still trying to sort this out. It feels a 619 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 12: little bit more of a campaign thing than something that 620 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 12: Donald Trump would actually encourage Russia to do. But you know, 621 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 12: there's a lot of concern around his what he's saying 622 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 12: around Russia and Ukraine, and this certainly feeds into that 623 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 12: bigger narrative. 624 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 2: JHN Stoltenberg is acting like he said, But you know, 625 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 2: maybe that's not the point. The language in the coverage 626 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 2: I find interesting sent shutters across European capitals, tremors across Washington. 627 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 3: This is Donald Trump. What did people think? They're right? 628 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 12: I mean, well, that's the other thing. And I think 629 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 12: you will find that, yes, there is anger, unease, exasperation 630 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 12: in European capitals. But they have known for some time 631 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 12: that he is the front runner among Republicans. They know 632 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 12: exactly what he thinks about NATO. They also know that 633 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 12: if he wins, he would not be there for more 634 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 12: than four years, which is an interesting angle because it 635 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 12: makes you think, well, it could he be you know, 636 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 12: could he well, you know, that's a whole other question. 637 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 12: You can get into that, you can get into that tomorrow. 638 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 12: But would he four years is something that they could 639 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 12: potentially endure if they're not looking at eight years of 640 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 12: Donald Trump and this kind of thing. It's like, well, 641 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 12: if we put our heads down for four years, and 642 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 12: let's not forget that he was a real ally in 643 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 12: a lot of ways to places like Poland. US troop 644 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 12: presence in Europe actually increased in some places during his presidency. 645 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 12: So it's a mixed track record. 646 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 9: Finally, Nick, just in our last ninety seconds with you, 647 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 9: we also got some news over the weekend that the 648 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 9: Defense Secretary, Lloyd Austin is in the hospital again. He 649 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 9: actually announced it this time, but he's in critical care 650 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 9: now for a bladder condition. Do we have any idea 651 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 9: how long he may be out of the mixes we 652 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 9: deal with all of these gudi political conflicts around the world. 653 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 9: Because Kathleen hitch is in charge right now, right. 654 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 12: Right, he transferred authorities, we do not have any sense, 655 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 12: you know, they're the real question we're trying to figure 656 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 12: out here is obviously, when he the first go around, 657 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 12: when he was hospitalized for two weeks, he did not 658 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,760 Speaker 12: disclose it. He did not He was very opaque, wanted 659 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,760 Speaker 12: to guard his privacy jealously. It created a huge amount 660 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 12: of concern. This time around, we're still trying to figure 661 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 12: out how serious is it is this something that could 662 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 12: be a bigger health issue that would really affect his 663 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 12: ability to do the job, or are they just being 664 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 12: very careful and making sure that you know everybody in 665 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 12: the full transparency and stuff like that. We're trying to 666 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 12: sort it out. But certainly if he's going back to 667 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 12: the hospital, that suggests that the health issues he had 668 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 12: in January have not been resolved, and that's going to 669 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 12: present a great many questions. 670 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 3: We hear a lot about chain of command. 671 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 2: I'm sure the Pentagon had its briefings, will be emphasizing 672 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 2: that point. 673 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 12: That's right today thirty two thirty, Well, I sent fun 674 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 12: of questions for pat ryder I. 675 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 2: Exactly because the timing here is everything, Kayley, which is 676 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 2: I'm sure why you asked it, considering the fact that 677 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,240 Speaker 2: we're involved in repeated air strikes now against foreign entities, 678 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 2: never mind what's happening in Israel, and this is a real. 679 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 9: Story, absolutely, and of course we're seeing perhaps the Secretary 680 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 9: learned his lesson from last time about making sure we 681 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 9: all know that story as it's happening, versus learning the 682 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 9: details later. 683 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 2: Nick wadhams, we'll get a day off someday. He runs 684 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 2: our national security operation. Here in the Bloomberg Bureau. We 685 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 2: always know he's here, which is why he joins us 686 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 2: here on Balance of Power. We thank you Nick. As always, 687 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines. This is Bloomberg. Thanks 688 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 2: for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure 689 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 2: to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or 690 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find us 691 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 2: live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern at 692 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com.