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Speaker 1: On December twenty ninth, nineteen ninety one, the body of

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Speaker 1: a thirty six year old bartender was found nude in

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Speaker 1: the men's restroom of her bar in Phoenix, Arizona. She

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Speaker 1: had been assaulted and fatally stabbed. No seamen was found, however,

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Speaker 1: what appeared to be bite marks were on her neck.

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Speaker 2: And breast, along with saliva.

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Speaker 1: With DNA testing still in its infancy, sorology tests could

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Speaker 1: only show that both the blood and saliva at the scene.

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Speaker 2: Matched the victim's blood type.

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Speaker 1: One witness implied that the victim may have been dating

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Speaker 1: a thirty four year old bar regular named Ray Crone,

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Speaker 1: who the victim allegedly had mentioned was supposed to help

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Speaker 1: her close up that night, but since Ray had been

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Speaker 1: at home with his roommate at the time of the crime,

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Speaker 1: he had nothing to hide, fully cooperating with investigators and

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Speaker 1: eventually giving a blood sample and an impression of his teeth.

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Speaker 1: With the limitations of the sorology in this case, the

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Speaker 1: notorious junk science of bitemark analysis became the sole evidence

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Speaker 1: against Ray. To judge's denial of a continuance for the

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Speaker 1: defense to prayer to refute. This evidence made a path

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Speaker 1: for a second trial, but not before Ray was.

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Speaker 2: Convicted and sentenced to death.

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Speaker 1: At the second trial, with the sal DNA evidence excluding Ray,

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Speaker 1: he was still reconvicted, but this time the judge sentenced

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Speaker 1: Rate a life while voicing his obvious doubts. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand and two, further DNA testing both excluded Ray as

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Speaker 1: well as identified a convicted child molester named Kenneth.

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Speaker 2: Phillips as the actual killer.

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Speaker 1: Within days, Ray Crohn became the one hundredth former death

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Speaker 1: row inmate freed based on actual innocence since capital punishment

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Speaker 1: was reinstated in nineteen seventy six.

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Speaker 2: This is wrongful conviction.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to wrongful conviction. Today's episode will rock your world.

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Speaker 1: And I say that with such a high degree of

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Speaker 1: confidence because this story, this man Ray cron was the

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Speaker 1: one hundredth exonery from death row in the United States

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Speaker 1: and his case is so troubling because, on top of

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Speaker 1: all the other terrible things, Ray's case relied solely on

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Speaker 1: the junkiest of junk sciences, which is bite mark evidence

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Speaker 1: that was it nothing else. And furthermore, as happens too

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Speaker 1: often in too many of the cases that we cover,

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Speaker 1: the actual perpetrator went on to commit an unspeakable crime

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Speaker 1: after Ray was targeted for reasons that we'll get into later,

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Speaker 1: which are inexplicable, but they're real. So without further Ado,

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Speaker 1: Ray Crone, welcome to wrongful conviction.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you, I'm glad to be here.

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Speaker 1: And Ray, your case happened in Maricopa County, Arizona, which

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Speaker 1: has a notorious past of prosecutorial misconduct. In fact, when

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Speaker 1: referring to some more recent instances, an ACLU article said,

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Speaker 1: and this is a quote. It is indicative of a

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Speaker 1: decade long culture of misconduct that flows from the top down,

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Speaker 1: one that prioritizes winning convictions over pursuing fairness and executing justice.

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Speaker 2: End quote.

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Speaker 1: And to be fair to a Maricopa that quote could

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Speaker 1: be applied to countless prosecutors' offices all over the country.

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Speaker 1: But in your case, the prosecutor was Noel Levy, who

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Speaker 1: sent at least two innocent people to death row that

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Speaker 1: we know of, right. The first was Deborah Milky back

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety when Levy hid the lead detective's long

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Speaker 1: history of lying under oath, and that was exposed in

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Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, which allowed Debrah Milky to finally clear her

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Speaker 1: name and then of course you But before all of

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Speaker 1: this insanity, can you take us back a bit, what

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Speaker 1: was your life like growing up?

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Speaker 3: Well? I was actually I was born and raised in

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Speaker 3: a small agricultural town in southern Pennsylvania. I went to

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Speaker 3: the same high school my grandparents went to the same

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Speaker 3: church my great grandparents went to. I was involved in church.

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Speaker 3: I was on the choir. I also played Little league baseball,

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Speaker 3: pee wee football was in sports. And I grew up

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Speaker 3: growing vegetables and hunting and fishing in the typical things

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Speaker 3: that small town country boys do. And I graduated in

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy four and I entered the US Air Force.

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Speaker 3: I signed up for six years active duty. Was stationed

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Speaker 3: places like Texas, Mississippi, then Georgia, Maine, and then the

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Speaker 3: last was Phoenix, Arizona. My six years were up, I

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Speaker 3: got out out there. A few years later. I got

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Speaker 3: a job at the post office, and life was really

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Speaker 3: pretty good again. I played a lot of sports, and

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Speaker 3: that's really where my problem arose. Because of the one

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Speaker 3: bar that I played volleyball for that I had sought

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Speaker 3: darts at a few times became a scene of a

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Speaker 3: murder right.

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Speaker 1: And this particular crime occurred on December twenty ninth, nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety one, where the body of a thirty six year

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Speaker 1: old woman was found nude in the men's restroom of

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Speaker 1: the CBS Lounge in Phoenix, Arizona. The bar owner had

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Speaker 1: found the body of the previous night's bartender and she

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Speaker 1: had been brutally assaulted and.

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Speaker 2: Stabbed to death.

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Speaker 1: Now this remember this was back in the early nineties, right,

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Speaker 1: so DNA testing was still in its infancy. Right, it

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Speaker 1: was a new thing, So they only had zerology to

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Speaker 1: work with, and at the time, it seemed like there

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Speaker 1: was very little physical evidence left behind. There was no semen, right,

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Speaker 1: and the blood and saliva at the scene all matched

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Speaker 1: the victim's blood type. There were, though, what appeared to

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Speaker 1: be human bite marks on the victim's neck and breast.

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Speaker 1: So hm, which is we've talked about that before. How

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Speaker 1: notoriously reliable that is? But so ray from these facts?

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Speaker 1: How did they even come to suspect and ultimately target you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she was. She was found by the owner and

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Speaker 3: he came in on that Sunday morningtone put up his bar,

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Speaker 3: found the front door unlocked, was concerned why his night

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Speaker 3: manager hadn't taken care of secured. Eddie went made his

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Speaker 3: way to the cash reader to a safe both row

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Speaker 3: on secure the money was still in there. As he

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Speaker 3: made his way around the bar, he found her body

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Speaker 3: in the men's bathroom, and of course the police were

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Speaker 3: called in and they initiated investigation on the assumption had

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Speaker 3: to be somebody that knew her. No evidence of break in,

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Speaker 3: no sign of a robbery. They talked to some of

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Speaker 3: the co workers. One of them mentioned my name as

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Speaker 3: a potential boyfriend. I did not date. She was not

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Speaker 3: my girlfriend. I knew her from the bar. You treat

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Speaker 3: bartenders and waitresses are kindly in any profession if you're

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Speaker 3: going to be attending that place of business, and that's

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Speaker 3: all it was. But it was about one o'clock on

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Speaker 3: that Sunday end. I heard my dog was outside and

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Speaker 3: he started barking. Two men in suits had pulled in

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Speaker 3: front of my neighbor's house and were getting out of

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Speaker 3: their car. And by the time I went outside to

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Speaker 3: let my dog and they were walking up my driveway

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Speaker 3: and I stepped out and I said, excuse me, can

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Speaker 3: I help you? The one man said, or you Ray Crone?

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Speaker 3: I said, well, yes, Sam, What can I do for you?

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Speaker 3: And he said you know, and I thought of SATs.

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Speaker 3: I said, I don't think I knew anybody named, and

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Speaker 3: he exchanged glances with the man next him, looked like

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Speaker 3: he said, you don't know from the CBS lounge. I said, well,

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Speaker 3: wait a minute. I played volleyball there. I shoot darts

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Speaker 3: there sometimes. There was a girl there named I said,

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Speaker 3: I don't know her last name. And he kind of

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Speaker 3: looked at me side. He said, you don't know her

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Speaker 3: last name. You're a boyfriend, aren't you. I kind of said,

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Speaker 3: tell I'm not her boyfriend. What's going on here? He said, well,

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Speaker 3: you're dating, or aren't you? I said, no, I'm not datinger,

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Speaker 3: what is this about? And at that point, he opened

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Speaker 3: up his jacket, pulled out his badge, identified himself as

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Speaker 3: a homicide detective, and informed me of her death. Said

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Speaker 3: he was there to ask me a few questions. Now

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Speaker 3: I'm stunned. I've been going to that bar about two months.

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Speaker 3: Here's somebody I knew was a victim of a homicide

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Speaker 3: and the police are at my house to ask me questions.

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Speaker 3: The first thing I said, well, sure, come on inside,

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Speaker 3: and he said no, we really need to do this downtown,

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Speaker 3: And so I was interrogated for the next three hours

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Speaker 3: about how long we've been dating, where I take her

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Speaker 3: on dates, every time she'd been to my house. All

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Speaker 3: of them, I told him were negative. You know, she's

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Speaker 3: never been to my house. I didn't date her. I

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Speaker 3: would see her at the bar. I was at a

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Speaker 3: Christmas party with a number of people from the bar

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Speaker 3: at one point with her, and that was it. At

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Speaker 3: one point they took my sneakers out. Another point they

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Speaker 3: took mugshots. They had me take my shirt off, took

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Speaker 3: pictures of my upper torso they took fingerprints. Another party,

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Speaker 3: he had like a white stir foam cups, had it

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Speaker 3: tied two pieces together. Where I actually been into that

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Speaker 3: and I cooperated. I didn't know anything about her death.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know her that well. I was at home

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Speaker 3: that night. I have a roommate that knows I was

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Speaker 3: home that night, and after about three hours it was over,

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Speaker 3: and I thought that was the end up. But then

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Speaker 3: the next day, which was a Monday, I went to

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Speaker 3: the post office, delivered my mail, got home that day

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Speaker 3: and there he was waiting. Detective Gregory said, I need

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Speaker 3: to eliminate you as a suspect. I don't think you've

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Speaker 3: been completely truthful. You want to cooperate, don't you, mister

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Speaker 3: cron And well, I said, sure, what does it you

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Speaker 3: need me to do? And he said, well, I need

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Speaker 3: you to come downtown again again. I volunteered to go

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Speaker 3: downtown this time. When I got down there, in a

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Speaker 3: little interrogation room, right away, he pulled out a piece

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Speaker 3: of paper said, oh, yeah, by the way, I have

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Speaker 3: an affidavid here, or a request for for evidence, and

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Speaker 3: that it said that they were going to take a

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Speaker 3: blood sample or hair sample to cast in my teeth.

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Speaker 3: Now I'm a little upset. Now I'm concerns, like what's

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Speaker 3: going on here? It was signed by a judge, said

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Speaker 3: I was required to give these samples, and it said

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Speaker 3: they had three hours to do it. So I cooperated

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Speaker 3: when he took blood out of both arms. I'm not

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Speaker 3: sure why that was necessary. I cooperated when they took

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Speaker 3: hair samples, and then I was taken next door in

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Speaker 3: a bigger room where there was a dentist and a

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Speaker 3: dentist chair set up, at which point they sat me

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Speaker 3: in a chair, put this gup, and he took two

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Speaker 3: casts in my upper teeth to cast my lower teeth,

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Speaker 3: and for about the next two and a half hours

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Speaker 3: there was nothing but taking pictures in question me about

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Speaker 3: my identicians history. When I was eighteen years old, I

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Speaker 3: was a passengor in a head on collision. I woke

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Speaker 3: up with a broken jaw mouth wearing shut. Six weeks

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Speaker 3: went by. The bottom jawl didn't line up with the top.

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Speaker 3: They had to rebreak and wear it shut again for

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Speaker 3: another six weeks. I had some teeth that it eventually

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Speaker 3: had died. I had some teeth issues, root canals, they

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Speaker 3: some bridge work, some different things that went on with

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Speaker 3: the front teeth in my mouth. And finally, when that

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Speaker 3: was over, I went next door to that little interrogation

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Speaker 3: room at wench Point. The detective banged his desk with

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Speaker 3: his big old book and said, look, it's time to

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Speaker 3: come clean. It's time to tell the truth. I know

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Speaker 3: you didn't want you just confess that we can all

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Speaker 3: go home. Well, by now I was pretty angry. I

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Speaker 3: was pretty upset with what was going on where I

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Speaker 3: was being treated. I was almost thirty five years old.

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Speaker 3: I'm not a little child. I spoke up to him,

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Speaker 3: I told you what I thought of him when I

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Speaker 3: thought the investigation of the police department, Why you waste

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Speaker 3: my time go find a person that did this. And

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Speaker 3: by the way, your three hours were up. I mean

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Speaker 3: I was hot. And he looked at me, looked at

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Speaker 3: his watch, he looked back up. He said, look, mister crone,

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to argue with you. There's other ways

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Speaker 3: to handle this. He took me home fifteen minute ride,

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Speaker 3: never said a word to me again. I thought that

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Speaker 3: was the end of it, but I found out what

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Speaker 3: he meant by other ways to handle this. The next day,

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Speaker 3: December thirty first, nineteen ninety one. It was just about

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Speaker 3: four o'clock. I pulled into my driveway, just stepped out

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Speaker 3: of my car, which point all Suddenly I heard a

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Speaker 3: speaker go off. Freeze, don't move, you're underrest. A vanload

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Speaker 3: the police officers came pulling up. Black and whites came

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Speaker 3: pulling up. The van doors opened up with armed officers

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Speaker 3: in full riot gear. Threw me on the ground and

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Speaker 3: rescue for murder, kidnapping, and sexual assault.

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Speaker 2: Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 1: So there you are spending New Year's Eve in a

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Speaker 1: jail cell, and from what I understand, you stayed right

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Speaker 1: there until trial. But you had your roommate right who

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Speaker 1: had been home with you that night, so it should

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Speaker 1: have seemed like you could clear this up pretty easily.

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Speaker 1: And from what I understand, you had a public defender.

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Speaker 1: Did they share the same optimism?

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Speaker 3: One day I got called out to a legal visit.

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Speaker 3: I've probably been in there for a good month or two,

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Speaker 3: and it's just like you see on TV with a

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Speaker 3: separated the area where one picks a phone and you

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Speaker 3: talked through clear glass. And I was in there in

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Speaker 3: a lady came in, sat a briefcase down, picked up

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Speaker 3: the phone and identified herself as representing the public Defender's office.

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Speaker 3: She said, you've been charged with murder, kidnapping, and sexual assault.

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Speaker 3: You can expect to be found guilty, but we'll fight

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Speaker 3: it on appeal. And I went crazy, What do you

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Speaker 3: mean if he found Giddy had not to do his

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Speaker 3: own bit? I just started going off, ranting and raving,

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Speaker 3: and she got the phone held away from her ear,

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Speaker 3: waiting for me to calm down. And she got back

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Speaker 3: in that phone and she said, listen, mister crone, let

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Speaker 3: me tell you something. I don't take that to an

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Speaker 3: A voice from the judge I don't take it from

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Speaker 3: the prosecutor, and I'm certainly not going to take it

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Speaker 3: from you. Hung up the phone, picked up a briefcase,

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Speaker 3: and was gone. And I thought, this is incredible. What

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Speaker 3: is this system? I believed in? What the country? I

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Speaker 3: believe that things I stood for and was taught and

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Speaker 3: you know, raised to believe. Anyway, I got a letter

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Speaker 3: about a week or two later from the Public Defender's

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Speaker 3: office that stated that they were being removed from my case.

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Speaker 3: They cited a conflict of interest, said the next most

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Speaker 3: likely suspect was the victim's ex husband. They had a

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Speaker 3: fifteen year old daughter together, and he did a sleepover

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Speaker 3: for her birthday and did something inappropriate with one of

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Speaker 3: her little girlfriends and he was arrested rightfully so, and

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Speaker 3: they were representing him, and I was told that I

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Speaker 3: would be getting a court appointed attorney. I thought, oh good,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to get a private attorney. Now. Somebody's going

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Speaker 3: to be appointed to represent somebody that'll do the job.

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Speaker 3: But unfortunately, the day I went before the judge to

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Speaker 3: get a court appointed attorney, it was a man who'd

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Speaker 3: never done a death penalty case. And at the point

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Speaker 3: where the judge appoint him to me. He was granted

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Speaker 3: five thousand dollars to defend me, to represent me in

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Speaker 3: a capitol murder case.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and of course the state has unlimited resources to

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Speaker 1: do what they want to do.

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Speaker 3: Heck, you can't even get a divorce for five thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, don't, don't, I know it, believe me. But and

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Speaker 1: they're giving really just enough to create the impression that

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Speaker 1: they're enabling you to mount some sort of a defense,

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Speaker 1: but not enough realistically for anybody to mount a real defense.

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Speaker 1: So seven months after the murder, you're on trial.

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Speaker 3: This was a three and a half day trial. The

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Speaker 3: prosecution was pretty much all three days. And that's why

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Speaker 3: I found out why they had me bite into that

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Speaker 3: stereo fim that first day, why they took those casts

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Speaker 3: of my teeth the second day, because they had a

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Speaker 3: bite mark expert testifier. Ray Rosen out of Nevada, very impressive,

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Speaker 3: well spoken man. He was a dean of the UNLV

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Speaker 3: Dental School. He was a state center out of Las Vegas.

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Speaker 3: He was the elder and the Mormon Church. Very powerful speaker,

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Speaker 3: very convincing. We had later found out, very well paid,

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Speaker 3: over fifty thousand dollars by the Maricopa County DA's office

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Speaker 3: for his testimony. But his testimony was that my teeth

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Speaker 3: were unique as the result of the car accident. I

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Speaker 3: was in my teeth matched the marks and the body,

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Speaker 3: and the detos marks in the body were made at

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Speaker 3: the time of death, and that definitively made me Ray

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Speaker 3: Crone the murder. There really wasn't much other evidence, but

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Speaker 3: I was called a snagger tooth killer in the papers.

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Speaker 1: The snaggle tooth killer. So for ten times what you

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Speaker 1: got for your whole defense, that fifty grand even came

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Speaker 1: with a schoolyard bully nickname, right, And what they're really

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Speaker 1: paying for with a forensic odontologist is there resume, pomp

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Speaker 1: and circumstance, Because if you were looking for substance and

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Speaker 1: bitemark analysis, well there just isn't any. There's not a shred.

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Speaker 1: I can't even I can't even put into words the

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Speaker 1: disdain I have for this particular junk science. I encourage

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Speaker 1: everyone to listen to our series Wraleful Conviction Junk Science.

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Speaker 1: The first episode exposes bitemark analysis for what it really is.

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Speaker 1: And let's start out by saying that one of the

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Speaker 1: original purposes of forensic odentology is identifying human remains with

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Speaker 1: dental records. What I mean is, for instance, like a

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Speaker 1: person was on a flight, right, and the flight crashed

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Speaker 1: into a mountainside or whatever, it gets obliterated.

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Speaker 2: But now you've got a situation where you're.

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Speaker 1: Matching a limited and known set of bodies to corresponding

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Speaker 1: dental impressions and dental histories. So you have a full

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Speaker 1: set of teeth that you're comparing to a full set

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Speaker 1: of X rays from a dentist's office. But with bitemark analysis,

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Speaker 1: the so called expert pretends without taking into account that

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Speaker 1: the many, many variables of the medium on which a

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Speaker 1: bite was recorded. Right, So what I mean is, in

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Speaker 1: this particular case, human skin and tissue, so we're talking

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Speaker 1: about elasticity, decomposition. I could go on, but from there

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Speaker 1: they act as if they're able to match perfectly a

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Speaker 1: dental mold from a suspect to marks made on a

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Speaker 1: surface that's transitioning, and they claim to be able to

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Speaker 1: do this to the exclusion of all others on the planet,

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Speaker 1: as Ray Rosen did in this case. So yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: but as Ray mentioned, they impressed the hell out of

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Speaker 1: the jury with their witnesses purported credentials, and this time

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Speaker 1: tested method has tragically been very effective at producing convictions,

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Speaker 1: often with no other evidence of any kind. So that

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Speaker 1: was the state's case. But what about your defense?

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Speaker 3: Now, the second half the trial, which was a defensive turn,

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Speaker 3: which was like the last half a day, I actually

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Speaker 3: took the stand. I raised my right hand. I went

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Speaker 3: up there and answer my attorney's questions. And there came

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Speaker 3: the prosecutor, Noel leav He got up here right in

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Speaker 3: front of me right away. So you denied killing the victim?

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Speaker 3: I said, yes, I do you deny being the CBS? Now,

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Speaker 3: I said what night? He said, the night you killed her?

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Speaker 3: Of course, mister Crone, the night you brutally took her.

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Speaker 3: I just started tearing into me. I mean everything I

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Speaker 3: said was twisted around. And after two or three hours

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Speaker 3: of this cross examination, I come down off that wind

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Speaker 3: of sand. I mean, so disorder and confused almost what

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Speaker 3: over sat down next to me. Next was my roommate.

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Speaker 3: My roommate was going through divorce. He had two children.

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Speaker 3: Most of his money was going to support those children.

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Speaker 3: He was staying with me for a month or two.

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Speaker 3: He'd been there already he raised his right hand to testify,

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Speaker 3: to tell the truth there in that court of law,

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Speaker 3: and sat down and answered my attorney's question. And then

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Speaker 3: here come nol leave again to cross examine him. Stirred

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Speaker 3: there in front of him a minute with his arms

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Speaker 3: cross said, now you know Ray Crone a long time,

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Speaker 3: haven't you. My friend Steve said yes, that's right. He's

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Speaker 3: been twelve years since we were in the Air Force together.

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Speaker 3: And then the prosecutor said, and Ray Crone has always

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Speaker 3: been a good friend to you. I've been there at times, indeed,

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Speaker 3: times of trouble, looked out for you, helped you out.

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Speaker 3: In fact, he's even given you a place to live

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Speaker 3: right now, isn't he my friends to He kind of

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Speaker 3: straighten up said yes, that's right. That's the kind of

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Speaker 3: guy where he is. And then the prosecutor leaned right

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Speaker 3: over a space point to figure and said, and you'd

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Speaker 3: lie for him, wound you and turned and walked away

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Speaker 3: and sat down. Later on at closing arguments, he told

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Speaker 3: the jury disregard my friend a man who raised his

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Speaker 3: right hand to serve the United States Air Force, a

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Speaker 3: man who raised his right hand to tell his truth

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Speaker 3: in the court of law. He told that jury to

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Speaker 3: disregard his testimony because he's just there to protect me

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Speaker 3: and will say anything. And it took the jury just

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Speaker 3: three and a half hours to come back and find

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Speaker 3: me guilty and murdering kidnapping.

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Speaker 1: So now you go back for sentencing, and you would

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Speaker 1: not have seemed to be a likely candidate to get

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Speaker 1: the death penalty, especially with your background. But in fact

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Speaker 1: that's what happened.

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Speaker 3: To sit there and going through a mini trivel to

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Speaker 3: call an aggravating mitigating hearing, and again this is their

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Speaker 3: go to big tough guy prosecutor before a judge. It

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Speaker 3: was an ex prosecutor a response for a half a

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Speaker 3: dozen people in death row already and to sit through

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Speaker 3: this the first part of the aggravating part by the

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Speaker 3: prosecution where they have to argue why this is above

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Speaker 3: and beyond the norm For the worst of the worst,

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Speaker 3: you have to have aggravating factors, at least one to

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Speaker 3: get a death sentence. They used the bite mark set.

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Speaker 3: It was gratuitous violent success, he pain and suffering on

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Speaker 3: a soft tissue of while she was still alive, the

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Speaker 3: pain and suffering she must have went through, or because

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Speaker 3: they're great at covering any possibilities in all their bases,

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Speaker 3: and he said, or it was after she was already dead.

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Speaker 3: That's heinous and depray, that's tampering with dead body. That's

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Speaker 3: just sick. And it's all his suppositions. He don't know

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Speaker 3: what happened, but he even had a dress dummy up

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Speaker 3: there showing how this was hacked and this was cut,

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Speaker 3: and how she has been I mean, very very powerful.

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Speaker 3: And then of course came the defenses turned to put

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Speaker 3: on the mitigating. Well, how do you mitigate something you

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Speaker 3: didn't do? How do you show remorse regret for an

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Speaker 3: act you never committed. I told my her, I got

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Speaker 3: nothing to apologized for. I didn't kill her. They got

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Speaker 3: the wrong person. And he said, well, we'll put your family,

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Speaker 3: your friends, or we can have them testify to your

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Speaker 3: good behavior in that background. I said, you're not putting

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Speaker 3: my family, my people that I know, on that stand

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Speaker 3: and be cross examined by that prosecutor. I said, no way,

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Speaker 3: it's not going to happen. And he said, we have

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Speaker 3: to tell the judge that right, Well, so I did,

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Speaker 3: and I was promptly calling an old, remorseful killer a

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Speaker 3: horrible monster, and sentence to.

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Speaker 1: Death This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global

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Speaker 1: insurance company, and by Accentsure, a global professional services company

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Speaker 1: with leading capabilities in digital, cloud and security. Working to

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Speaker 1: reform the criminal justice system is a key pillar of

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Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program, which provides free legal services

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00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 1: and other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals most

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00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,080
Speaker 1: in need as part of Extensure's commitment to racial and

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00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 1: civil justice. Accenture's Legal Access Program provides pro bono legal

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Speaker 1: services in partnership with more than forty organizations, bringing meaningful

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Speaker 1: change to people and communities worldwide.

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Speaker 3: Within a week's time, I was transported by a bust

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Speaker 3: straight to the death throw in Arizona. That's just about

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Speaker 3: a five by seven center block walled cell. Had stealed

432
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,120
Speaker 3: bars on the front side where the door was. There

433
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 3: was a little trap there. That's where they fed you through,

434
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 3: put the mail through. I can tell you I never

435
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 3: got a hot meal on death row or meal sat

436
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 3: in the hallway, so they felt like feedus. I got

437
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 3: one sheet, one towel, one army blanket. There was a

438
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 3: cement slab that had a about a two inch pad

439
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 3: on it. I wrapped my sneakers in my towel. That

440
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 3: was my pillow, and that's where I was to live

441
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 3: now until they decided when I was going to die again.

442
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 3: My friends and family believed to me, supported me, but

443
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,480
Speaker 3: I knew this cell and death row is going to

444
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,239
Speaker 3: be my home for quite a while, and I'm going

445
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 3: to have to learn the survivment here and learn what

446
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 3: I can about the system to prepare myself for what

447
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 3: I need to know to fight it in the future

448
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 3: if I ever had that chance again.

449
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 1: And you did get that chance again because the Arizona

450
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,560
Speaker 1: Supreme Court overturned your conviction on direct appeal. I mean,

451
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 1: it's a freaking miracle, right, And how did that miracle

452
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 1: come to pass?

453
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,679
Speaker 3: Well, they'd still had law library then, and so I

454
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 3: started going and reading the law books. Actually became a

455
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 3: legal representative to help other inmates there in prison, both

456
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,400
Speaker 3: on their cases or with dispary issues. So I learned

457
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,879
Speaker 3: a little bit about how that works. Most states, whenever

458
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 3: you're sentenced to death, it automatically goes direct appeal to

459
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,439
Speaker 3: that state Supreme Court. And in my case, I have

460
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 3: to say, God bless my worthless attorney. He actually did

461
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 3: something worthwhile right before our trials to start he was

462
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 3: on a Friday. The trial started Monday. We were taken

463
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,439
Speaker 3: into the courtroom there in the prosecution and introduced a

464
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 3: videotape made by their bikemark expert, about forty minutes long,

465
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 3: about how he conclusively matched my teeth using the latest

466
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 3: techniques to these bike marks on her body. Very impressive,

467
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 3: very powerful evidence. And my attorney was awake, he was

468
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 3: actually paying attention. He said, your honor, I've never seen

469
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 3: this evidence before. You can't allow this in. At the

470
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 3: last moment, the judge said, D nine, I'm going to

471
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 3: allow this in. He said, you got the weekend to

472
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 3: consult with this expert. And then at a burst of brilliance,

473
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 3: we actually said you're honor and lighted that ruling. If

474
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 3: you're gonna allow that evidence in, I'm going to have

475
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 3: to ask for thirty day continues. I am not prepared

476
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 3: for this evidence. I need thirty more days. And as

477
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 3: I said, the judge was consistent, he was an ex prosecutor,

478
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 3: had people on death road. He said, denied. He said,

479
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 3: we need to get this trial rolling. So just seven

480
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 3: months from the murder, he needed to get the trial rolling.

481
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 3: The arizonas were Supreme Court reviewed the issue for what

482
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 3: it was. They said, my attorney was well within the

483
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 3: rights for ask for a continuance. They said the judge

484
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 3: was wrong for allowing that in at the last moment.

485
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 3: As a defendant, you have a right to know what

486
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,159
Speaker 3: Evan's going to be used against you. You have a

487
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 3: right to receive that in a timely manner. But just

488
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 3: because there's a mistake of technicality and error made does

489
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 3: not mean you walk free. There's two parts to it,

490
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 3: and the second part is called a harmless error evaluation,

491
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 3: and this is where they review this piece of evidence,

492
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,160
Speaker 3: this omission, this era, and whether or not it would

493
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 3: affect the verdict when the jury even cared, did this matter?

494
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 3: And the exact words were without this videotape, there wasn't

495
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 3: even a jury submissible case against mister Krone. They recognized

496
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 3: this was about a bite mark, that this was critical evidence.

497
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 3: The judge was wrong and they ordered a new trial.

498
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 1: And you were lucky enough to have a strong family

499
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 1: support system throughout your fight. What did they do to

500
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: help in the lead up to your second trial?

501
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 3: And so God bless them. They mortgaged their house, They

502
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 3: cashed in with retirement funds. There was different people that

503
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,719
Speaker 3: gave their income tax returns money to my family. And

504
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 3: I had a second cousin out in California, and he

505
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 3: was reasonably well off and he'd heard about this from

506
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 3: his mother and he was dumbfound. He's like, what kind

507
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 3: of family did I come from? With a murderer on

508
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 3: death row? And he was intrigued. He came to visit

509
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 3: me on death row and talked with me, and when

510
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 3: he was done, he said, something doesn't sound right here.

511
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 3: And he became a real champion for the fight for

512
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 3: my innocence. And he knew attorney out of California, and

513
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 3: from talking through him, the attorney said, let me take

514
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 3: the case. We couldn't come near the hundreds of thousands

515
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 3: of dollars required, but he said, just pay the expenses.

516
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 3: I believe in raid. This case is no good. Let

517
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 3: me take the case. And so now we had a

518
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 3: person very experienced attorney. When he showed up for that trial,

519
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 3: I mean, he had books and books about its stuff

520
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 3: that he had found out that we never knew about

521
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 3: in our first trial. Things that they had done with

522
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 3: everything from even blood sampling and testing and stuff that

523
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 3: we never knew had been done. More about footprints and

524
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 3: fingerprints that had been found that we never knew about,

525
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 3: and all this stuff was coming out at our second trial.

526
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 3: And when that second trials finally started in February of

527
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six, it lasted over seven weeks. Over five

528
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 3: hundred exhibits were introduced. We had three bitemark experts testify

529
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 3: the defense alone. It was a whole different scenario now,

530
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 3: and it was starting to feel good about the truth

531
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 3: was coming out at this trial.

532
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: Yep. And the truth sure did come out all right.

533
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 1: So you had DNA testing done on the saliva from

534
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: the bite mark that identified a different contributor, confirming that

535
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,479
Speaker 1: it belonged neither to you nor the victim. So I

536
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 1: think now everybody is probably on the edge of their

537
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: seats going okay, So now comes to happy ending, right, he.

538
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 3: Thinks, I mean, my family, we all had reason to

539
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 3: be very optimistic. Now. The prosecutor, right before they went out,

540
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 3: and that prosecutor stood before that jury for closing arguments,

541
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 3: told them to ignore that DNA. Disregard that DNA. He

542
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 3: said that DNA is easier to explain. She's a way,

543
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 3: she's a bar tender, she handles glasses all day long.

544
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 3: That was just transferred there by accident from somebody else.

545
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 3: He said, we know from the bike mark who did this,

546
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 3: and you're responsible to see that justice is done for

547
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 3: the victim's family. And this is his best prosecutor of tone,

548
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 3: a kindness, consoling, trust me voice that he's telling this

549
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 3: jury that right before they go out to deliberate. And

550
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 3: the jury goes out after all that time and come

551
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 3: back and finds me guilty again, everything just froze for me.

552
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 3: I see the jurors wiping tears out of their eyes,

553
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 3: their heads down, they don't want to look at me.

554
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 3: My attorney's hanging on my shoulder, saying, I can't believe this.

555
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 3: Why do they see the truth? Don't worry. I'm with

556
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: you to the end. And I look over to prosecution

557
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 3: side and they're all jumping up and down, celebrating like

558
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 3: the one the big ball game, And all I can

559
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 3: think is woeb stop rewinders though this can't be is no,

560
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 3: it's not possible to But that lasted just seconds because

561
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 3: I was brought right back to reality because I heard

562
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 3: the most horrible scream, this moan and wailing from my

563
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 3: mom and sister not five feet behind me. To turn

564
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 3: around and see the look in their eye, the tears

565
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 3: holding their face, and I'd say, Mom, don't cry, Amy,

566
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 3: my little sister Amy, It'll be all right. Don't worry.

567
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 3: I'll be okay. You couldn't believe this, what happened? How

568
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 3: can this be? It's not possible. But there I was

569
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: found guilty again Jesus.

570
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 1: So they bought that nonsense about the transfer saliva from glassware.

571
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: But luckily the judge had his doubts. And when it

572
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: comes to the Aggravation and Mitigation hearing for your sentencing,

573
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: your attorney, Chris Plored, spent two hours demonstrating how all

574
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: of the pieces of evidence pointed to somebody else, How

575
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: police were able to get footprints at the scene of

576
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 1: the crime and were able to match them to actual

577
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 1: shoes size nine and a half converse, but you wear

578
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: a size eleven, right. That fingerprints and palm prince found

579
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: in the bathroom didn't match you, that hair found on

580
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: the victim's body, that salivary DNA didn't match you. And

581
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: all of this made such an impression on the judge,

582
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 1: Superior Court Judge James McDougal, that he said, quote, the

583
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: court is left with a residual or lingering doubt about

584
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: the clear identity of the killer. This is one of

585
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: those cases that will haunt me for the rest of

586
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: my life, wondering whether I have done the right thing.

587
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 2: End quote.

588
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 1: Wow, I mean he still had to sentence you, but

589
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: he was definitely not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.

590
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 3: And yeah, he sends me to twenty five delight for

591
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 3: the murk, and then he went on too aggravate kidnapping

592
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 3: and added on twenty one more So, I was actually

593
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 3: facing forty six years in prison before I'd ever have

594
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 3: an opportunity to get out. It was a death sentence.

595
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 3: I'd had to be eighty one years old to ever

596
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 3: have my first shot at a release. You don't live

597
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 3: to be eighty one in our prisons, no.

598
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: Very few people do, even on the outside of the

599
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: life expectancy is less than that. So now you're back

600
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: to prison, and while it's not death row this time,

601
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,719
Speaker 1: as you said, it's still really a living death sentence.

602
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 1: I mean, did you find a way to maintain hope

603
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: at this point?

604
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 3: Years go by, my appeals are turned down. They said, no,

605
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 3: this is a fair trial. There's nothing wrong with this

606
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 3: trial yet, But I'm thinking man, I'm going to here.

607
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 3: My family is still doing newsletter. They figured we got

608
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 3: to find out who did this. It's the only way

609
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 3: we can get them out here. My cousin, Jim Rix

610
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 3: in California is working strenuously to find hiring people to

611
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 3: investigate doing different things, and nothing's really panning out. And

612
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: then in two thousand and one, Arizona state legislatures passed

613
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 3: a new law allowing for post conviction relief DNA testing.

614
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 3: Most states are only allowed a small window after your

615
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 3: conviction to bring up new evidence. If you didn't bring

616
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 3: it up a trial, it's very hard to ever bring

617
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: it up again. But they recognized that DNA was too critical,

618
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 3: too definitive, too important to just ignore on a time restraint,

619
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 3: so they passed a new law allowing for post conviction

620
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 3: relief on DNA material, provided it was previously on tested

621
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 3: that would have direct bearing on guilt or innocence, and

622
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 3: that it was properly maintained. And I have to say God,

623
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: bless you, thank you Phoenich police department, because they kept

624
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 3: the clothing in Kim's case. She had been stabbed with

625
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 3: a big butcher knife from the kitchen through her clothing

626
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 3: which was then cut off with that butcher knife and

627
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 3: thrown in a corner. She had been stabbed so forcibly

628
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 3: with this butcher knife that it actually bent the blade,

629
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 3: and my experts all surmised there was a good chance

630
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 3: the person willing that knife may have cut themselves. And

631
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 3: so we were able to get a look at those

632
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 3: clothing that they had kept preserved and stored, and my

633
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 3: journey was able to see that there was blood on

634
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 3: her pants, on her underwear. Meanwhile, I was visited by

635
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 3: a man named Alan Simpson and investigator Tom Street would

636
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 3: to know if I would like them to represent me.

637
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 3: I'm like, I have no money or no, No, that's

638
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 3: not what we're talking about. We want to represent you

639
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 3: in this case and have this post conviction relief DNA

640
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: testing done, so I can't pay you anything for about

641
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 3: five minutes, I can't pay you if only got to

642
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 3: the point, That's not what mattered to them. They wanted

643
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 3: to represent me. They bleed in my innocence and they

644
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 3: would then petitioned the courts under that new law to

645
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 3: have DNA testing done on that pants and underwear that

646
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 3: they had found some type of a staining. That testing

647
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 3: was now being done. It started in October. We were

648
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 3: told it would take six to eight weeks. October went by,

649
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 3: and November went by, December went by, January went by,

650
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 3: still no results. I'm waiting, I'm anxious. Went it up.

651
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 3: It turned out that they actually had results back, but

652
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 3: it came back with a match to a another man

653
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 3: that was currently serving a ten year sentence for sexually

654
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: assaulting a child. It came back three or four times.

655
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 3: The prosecution to have the rerun it and rerun it

656
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 3: and rerun it.

657
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: And it's important that we mentioned that this man who

658
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: the DNA actually matched was a guy named Kenneth Phillips, right,

659
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: And as you said, this was a guy who was

660
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: at that time incarcerated for sexually assaulting and choking a

661
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: seven year old girl.

662
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 2: It's unreal.

663
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: And at the time of the murder, he was not

664
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: only on probation for breaking into a neighboring woman's apartment

665
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: and choking her while threatening to kill her, but he

666
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: was also living just six hundred yards away from the

667
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: CBS lounge where the victim was killed. So it's horrible

668
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: to think that this horrendous ordeal that you went through

669
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: and the one suffered by that poor little child could

670
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: have been avoided entirely. Unfortunately that was not the case,

671
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: and it took all of those years later, and these

672
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: critical DNA test.

673
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 3: Results felltly was leaked at that the DNA results were

674
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 3: back and then it matched another person. Things happened very quickly.

675
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 3: Then on April eighth, I was called over to the

676
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 3: counselor's office. He said, your attorney's on the phone. And

677
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 3: I got the phone and it was Alan. He said, Ray,

678
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 3: how you doing today? I said, five? Just in their

679
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 3: day at paradise. He laughed. He said, what do you want?

680
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 3: Want to eat? I said, well, what are you talking about?

681
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 3: Whatever's in the towel. He goes, no, no, no, what

682
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 3: do you want? He steak? Seafood ekes a good food,

683
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 3: a beer? What would you like? Ray? I said, Alan,

684
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 3: what the devil are you talking about? He said, I

685
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 3: just got off the phone with the prosecutor's office. They

686
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 3: just got back from the judges chambers. They're cutting the

687
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 3: paperwork and coming home today. And I just what did

688
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 3: you say? He said, Roll up, Ray, it's all over.

689
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 3: You're coming home. And I looked at the counselor and

690
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 3: I gave him the phone, and he'd hung it up

691
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,239
Speaker 3: and well his phone rang right away and he picked yes,

692
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 3: sir right, he's right here. Yes, his eyes are getting bigger.

693
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 3: Yesterday I'll haven't done. Yes, absolutely, I'll take care of it. Said.

694
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 3: That was the ward. He said, you need to go

695
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 3: back and roll your stuff up. You're being released, mister crone.

696
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 3: I walked out of that prison about three hours later,

697
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 3: looking at over my shoulder and wondered what the devil

698
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 3: were they up to this time because they never accepted

699
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 3: my innocence, they never believed what I said. And now,

700
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 3: just like that one day and back in December thirty first,

701
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 3: it was when I woke up in my house and

702
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 3: that evening I went to sleep in a jail. So

703
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 3: that morning I woke up in a prison cell and

704
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: went home to sleep. But I was released and my attorney,

705
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 3: Chris Plord, came from over in California. He picked me

706
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 3: up and drove me off that day to escort me

707
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 3: off to start my life all over again at the

708
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 3: age of forty five, after ten years, stream months and

709
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 3: eight days, to reunite with my family and friends, with

710
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 3: the distinction of being the one undred person in America

711
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 3: too have been convicted of a capitol murder, sentence to death,

712
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 3: and later to be free, to be exonerated, to be

713
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 3: proven innocent. Wow.

714
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: You know, it's really such an inspiring story with a

715
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: lot of villains, but you know, when you think about it,

716
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: there are even more heroes than villains. Like you're a

717
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: Pallett attorney Chris Plored. You know, hearing his name reminds

718
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: me of a story I heard about a sting that

719
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: was done to expose the notorious bite Mark Charlotte and

720
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: Michael West, Mississippi. And in that sting, Michael West was

721
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: given a set of dental molds that he was told

722
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: belonged to a suspect in some crime or other. But

723
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: it turned out that the dental molds were actually the

724
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: ones belonging to the investigator who was part of this sting.

725
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: And of course, this freaking numbnot's West identifies the dental

726
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: molds as those belonging to the culprit in this fake case,

727
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: thereby exposing himself as just one of many frauds in

728
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: this field.

729
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 3: It was my cousin's dentician that was sent to doctor

730
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 3: West out dur In, Mississippi, with using the picture that

731
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 3: was the bite mark on the breasts, saying that it

732
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 3: was actually a child abuse case and could he be

733
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 3: of any help whether or not this was a suspect,

734
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 3: and could you identify that West identified my cousin's teeth

735
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: is making the mark that I was convicted of maker

736
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 3: Wait wait what it was my cousin's teeth, Jim Rix's teeth.

737
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: That's amazing And oh man, I mean speaking of frauds,

738
00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: what about Ray Rosen?

739
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: The experts in New York case, was he ever exposed?

740
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 3: What ended up happened? It turned out that Ray Rosin

741
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 3: was I almost say outcast, but he was certainly chastised

742
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 3: by the rest of the people in his profession and

743
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 3: knew they all could point quick fingers at where he's wrong, saying,

744
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 3: why are you doing this? You know you're wrong. And

745
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 3: he actually resigned from the dental school after my release.

746
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 3: I couldn't sue him because he was protected under immunity

747
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 3: from the prosecutor, but he did resign his post at

748
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 3: the dental school. He also lost his re election as senator.

749
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 3: But yeah, Ray Rosen held on to the end when

750
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 3: all the other experts said you're wrong, why you're doing this?

751
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 3: And We actually had him on tape for the lawsuit.

752
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 3: If we could have went after saying I'm just in

753
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 3: too deep to back out now. So what kind of

754
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: system do we have that allows people like that to

755
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 3: get paid exorbitant amount of money to testify to something

756
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 3: that they weren't even sure of, but they're in too

757
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 3: deep to back up and admit they were wrong. Walking

758
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 3: out that gate that day, being number one hundred, there

759
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 3: was notoriety. One hundred was a special number. There was

760
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: a number of events that went on around the country

761
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 3: for that molestone, and there was the media outside Mike

762
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 3: Gate just want to talk to see what it's like.

763
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 3: But what are you going to do now? How's it feel?

764
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 3: And I talked about how my family and friends had

765
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 3: stood by, how I read the Bible front back three

766
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 3: and a half times during those ten years and stepped

767
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 3: with it under my pillow, and reporter back and raised

768
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 3: his hand. He said, well, mister Crone, giving your faith

769
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 3: in God, how do you justify him leaving you in

770
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 3: prison for ten years? I thought, what, how do I

771
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 3: justify God leaving me in prison for ten years? How

772
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 3: do you answer a deep soul searching question like that?

773
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 3: I mean the prison is right behind me. I've been

774
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 3: out five minutes, and I'm dumbfounded. I'm frozen underard. And

775
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 3: then all of a suddenly something shot in my head.

776
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 3: I said, well, you know, maybe it's not about those

777
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 3: ten years I spent in prison. Maybe it's about what

778
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 3: I have to do the next ten years. It took

779
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 3: three weeks to go back before a judge, at which

780
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 3: point the judge ordered a new trow and that's when

781
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 3: the prosecution stepped forward and said they were dropping charges

782
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 3: with prejudice meeting that could never be tried again. And

783
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 3: at that point said, mister Krone, you're free to go.

784
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 3: Good luck. I time to think maybe there was a

785
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 3: reason that somebody like me had to go through this,

786
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 3: because again, if they can put me on death throw anybody,

787
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 3: it's acceptable almost to that. And then so I shared

788
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 3: my story in my background, and at the time, his

789
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,479
Speaker 3: sister Helen was fighting her own war so to speak

790
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 3: against the death penny. She had the ideal about what

791
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 3: better way to talk about the death pilty and how

792
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 3: wrong it is and to have somebody that was innocently

793
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,959
Speaker 3: convicted of it. And I was asked if I would

794
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 3: come on board to share my story. She was out

795
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 3: of New Orleans at a time. It lasted probably good

796
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 3: six months, almost a year, and as anything funny gets

797
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 3: difficult to have and it was finally folded up years later.

798
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 3: Man Kurt Rosenberg out Philadelphia had to contact her sister

799
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 3: Helen and said, I'd like to resurrect Witness Innocence with

800
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 3: your blessings, with your approval, and she said yes absolutely.

801
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 3: He had contacted another man he knew there in Philadelphia,

802
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 3: that was grant writer Terry Ramsey, and then I was

803
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 3: contacted the resurrect Witness Innocence and between the three I

804
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 3: was Then we ended up drawing up a nonprofit organization

805
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 3: US to five oh one three C. We got our

806
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: LLC and we started Witness Citizens, and I believe that

807
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 3: was around two thousand and five somewhere in there. And

808
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 3: since then we've grown it now to staff a five

809
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 3: or six at least paid staff, over thirty some members

810
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 3: that are active. But we share our stories around the country.

811
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 3: We've spoken all the states that have at leashed to

812
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 3: death peny. Our people come and shared their stories, both

813
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,919
Speaker 3: men and women who like me, were wrongly convicted, who

814
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 3: walked that walk on death row, who were facing a

815
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 3: possible execution, and later, by the grace of God and

816
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 3: good fortune and the hard work of others, including innocence

817
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 3: projects and justice projects around the country, that we're able

818
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 3: to get our freedom and now use our voice to

819
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 3: say what is wrong and how we can abolish the

820
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 3: death peny and fix certain other aspects of our justicysm

821
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 3: that have continued to malfunction and result in wrongful convictions

822
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 3: of minicent people.

823
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: Amen to that, and I hope people will go to

824
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: the website, of course, it's Witness to Innocence dot org.

825
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: Now we have a tradition here at wrongful conviction. It's

826
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: called closing our Us and it works very simply. Again,

827
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,240
Speaker 1: I thank you Ray for being such a great leader

828
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: and just an inspiring guy for so many of us,

829
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: a hero for so many of us, including myself, and

830
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: for being here on the show. And then what happens

831
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: now is I turned my microphone off, kick back in

832
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: my chair, leave my headphones on, and just listen as

833
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: you share with our audience anything else you may want

834
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: to say. The microphone is yours, Ray Crone, closing arguments.

835
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 3: Thank you for that opportunity. Actually, i'd like to share too.

836
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,439
Speaker 3: I think twice of those trials, Kim's mom, a wonderful lady,

837
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 3: bath with adamants and anger, denounce me and victims' impact statements,

838
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 3: and rightfully so, she thought I killed her daughter. But

839
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 3: that day came when I had to go before that judge,

840
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 3: as I said, for that new trial, and the charges

841
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 3: were dropped, and the judge bang the galla, Miss Crone,

842
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 3: you're free to go. I noticed Kim's mom, and the

843
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: crowd is mostly all my friends and family members. But

844
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 3: she had come walking up a frail lady. Now after

845
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 3: almost ten years or so, she'd been through this, come

846
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 3: up walking on a cane. Sadden almost in tears to

847
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 3: mister Crone, I'm so sorry for what happened to you.

848
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 3: I know what it's like to lose a loved one.

849
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 3: I lost my daughter. Your mom lost you for ten years.

850
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 3: She said, Please forgive me. I just believed what they

851
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 3: told me, and I said, ma'm your apologies, certainly accept

852
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 3: that it's not necessary. I can understand your anger at

853
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 3: me and thinking I'd killed your daughter. I did not

854
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 3: kill your daughter. I thank you for coming up to me,

855
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 3: I said, And now it's my first opportunity to actually,

856
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 3: I'll offer you my condolences. I only knew your lovely

857
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 3: daughter for a few months, but she seemed like a

858
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 3: very nice and special person. But there it was a system.

859
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 3: Wasn't just doing it to my famous system had done

860
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 3: it to her family now too. She was at that point,

861
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 3: was actually looking at the possibility having to go back

862
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 3: to travel again, see all the brutal pictures at the

863
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 3: prosecutional show of her daughter again and had to sit

864
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 3: through that testimony. They were doing it to her too,

865
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 3: And she said, I just believed they told me, And

866
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,919
Speaker 3: I wish some of the good fortune that I've had

867
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 3: in my case could be blessed on all those other ones,

868
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 3: those moms and those daughters, those sisters, those wives that

869
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 3: are fighting for their husband, their loved one right now,

870
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 3: who totally believe in their innocence. So I just want

871
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 3: those folks that might be listening, that are struggling with

872
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 3: their own case right now, to keep that faith alive,

873
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 3: to keep that open and know that people do care

874
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 3: about you. Why we might not know you personally, we

875
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 3: know of your hardships, we know of the struggles, and

876
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 3: we have people like you today's putting this on the

877
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 3: air doing podcasts and showing the errors, mistakes and fighting

878
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 3: for that justice system that we could all be proud

879
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 3: of in trust.

880
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. Please support your

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00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: local innocence organizations and go to the links in.

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00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 2: Our bio to see how you can help.

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00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Justin Golden,

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00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: Jeff Clyburn, and Kevin Wardis. The music on this show,

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00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: as always, is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

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00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,240
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,

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00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: on Twitter at wrong Conviction, and on Facebook at Wrongful

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00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava for

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Speaker 1: Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one