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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb. We're mostly off this week for the holidays,

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Speaker 1: so we have a vault episode for you today. This

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Speaker 1: is going to be one from a few years back.

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Speaker 1: This is this one originally published twelve fifteen, twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: It is our episode on the invention of eggnock. So

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Speaker 1: let's drink up.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

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Speaker 3: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. It's that time

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Speaker 3: of year again. And by that time, I mean it

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Speaker 3: is the holidays. We're knee deep, perhaps waist deep in

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Speaker 3: the holidays, and there's no going back. We might as

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Speaker 3: well just push forward at this point, like it's just

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Speaker 3: as much just as much effort to keep going as

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Speaker 3: it would be to turn back. So once more, we

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Speaker 3: have a holiday episode for you. It's actually going to

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Speaker 3: be our third installment in our Holiday Invention series, where

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Speaker 3: we more or less give the invention treatment to various

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Speaker 3: holiday decorations, traditions, and toys. This year we're going to

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Speaker 3: be looking in earnest at eggnog.

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Speaker 4: Is eggnog an invention. Sure, we can stretch the definition.

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Speaker 4: I think that's okay.

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Speaker 3: I think so. I mean, we did an invention, a

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Speaker 3: full blown invention episode about the Matai, which we you know,

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Speaker 3: we had Jeff Beach bombarry on as a guest to

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Speaker 3: talk about that. Eggnog is not something that occurs naturally

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Speaker 3: in the world. It must be made at some point.

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Speaker 3: There had to be a first or something like a first,

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Speaker 3: and you know, we'll get into that. And it's one

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Speaker 3: of those things that has a number of different customs

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Speaker 3: and cultural details surrounding it. Now, Joe, I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: what your relationship with egnog happens to be, because I

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Speaker 3: don't know that we've ever really spoken about this. I

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Speaker 3: don't think we've had eggnog together before, not that I recall,

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Speaker 3: but my family's general approach is will generally buy a

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Speaker 3: carton of almond nog each year, largely for our son

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Speaker 3: because he gets super into it. And if I have

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Speaker 3: a chance to visit a like an upscale cocktail place

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Speaker 3: or a nice restaurant, then I will jump at the

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Speaker 3: opportunity to order an eggnog if they have one on

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Speaker 3: the menu. In the past I've made it down to

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Speaker 3: New Orleans for the start of beach Bumberry Sippings Santa

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Speaker 3: festivities at beach Bumberr's Latit Tude twenty nine. They also

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Speaker 3: have pop ups all over the place, and they'll generally

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Speaker 3: have at least one holiday teaki beverage on there that

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Speaker 3: is at least eggnog esque.

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Speaker 4: In form I'm picturing piles of crushed or pellet ice

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Speaker 4: with kind of a frothy, creamy gryme about them and

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Speaker 4: some nutmeg sprinkled over top.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the nutmeg is will discuss is pretty essential.

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Speaker 3: So I did make it down there this year, but

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Speaker 3: I did make it over to a tiki bar in

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Speaker 3: our area, Decatur's sos t Bar, and I enjoyed a

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Speaker 3: frozen take on a classic eggnog. Generally a rich drink

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Speaker 3: though so once twice three times per year, Max. That's

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Speaker 3: generally enough from me, uh huh. Now. Before we came

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Speaker 3: in here, though, I mentioned to my wife that I

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Speaker 3: was about to record the eggnog episode, and she was

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Speaker 3: kind enough to provide me with an entire glass of

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Speaker 3: eggnog here for me to consume during this episode. The

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Speaker 3: listeners at home, you'll have to take my word for it, Joe,

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Speaker 3: I think you can see it on the video feed here.

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Speaker 4: Wait, is this full booze eggnog?

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Speaker 3: Or well you might well presume that, but I couldn't

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Speaker 3: possibly comment, Yes, creamy, rich, hint of nutmeg, beautiful.

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Speaker 4: I have no eggnog in the house. A cute cute

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Speaker 4: Joe Peshi and Home Alone saying eggnog, eggnog dressed as

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Speaker 4: a cop like eggnog is the most disgusting substance on Earth.

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Speaker 4: And you know what, as a child, that was pretty

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Speaker 4: much where my head was at. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: Joe peshe in Home Alone is correct. I found the

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Speaker 4: idea revolting, not just revolting, I think, I think I

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Speaker 4: probably found it borderline nauseating to think of a drink

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Speaker 4: made out of eggs. Something changed over the years. Now

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Speaker 4: I find it quite delightful.

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Speaker 3: So was the eggs that threw you off?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well you're gonna drink eggs?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: So I think about eggs. There's something that you know,

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Speaker 4: I liked eggs scrambled like they make them at the

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Speaker 4: cracker barrel. You know, I'm thinking of like a thick

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Speaker 4: yellow curd like substance, and always in savory context. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I know, obviously now that eggs are used in all

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Speaker 4: kinds of baking and sweet contexts, but that's not how

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Speaker 4: I thought about them when I was a kid. So

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Speaker 4: the idea of drinking a sweet egg based beverage was

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Speaker 4: absolutely vile to my brain.

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Speaker 3: I can understand that. I mean, especially even the name

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Speaker 3: is a bit potentially off putting. It's very forward with

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Speaker 3: the egg. What you were about to drink contains eggs,

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Speaker 3: and then the nog also can throw one for a curve.

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Speaker 3: I do like some of the archaic spellings of eggnog

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Speaker 3: that I've encountered researching this episode. Oftentimes the way we

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Speaker 3: encounter it now it's egg n og, but some of

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Speaker 3: these other spellings will be egg n ogg. I like

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Speaker 3: the double the double g's occurring in both parts of

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Speaker 3: the word.

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Speaker 4: That's just symmetry. That's good branding.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Now, before we proceed, I guess we should go

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Speaker 3: ahead and drive home exactly what eggnog is. We've alluded

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Speaker 3: to it a little bit already, but technically it's a

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Speaker 3: milk egg drink or a milk egg punch. And we've

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Speaker 3: of course reached the points as a civilization where you

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Speaker 3: can have something that is identifiable as a nog without

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Speaker 3: the presence of egg or dairy. But historically this is

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Speaker 3: the realm from which this beverage arises.

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Speaker 4: Right, So you're you mentioned almond nog. I guess that

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Speaker 4: is equivalent in the same way that you might have

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Speaker 4: almond milk. It is a substitute for milk.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, though, I guess it's even more like some people

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Speaker 3: get up in arms, especially the dairy industry. I know

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Speaker 3: about things that are not milk calling themselves milk. And

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Speaker 3: even more to the point, I guess something like a

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Speaker 3: soy nog or an almond nog is going to have

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Speaker 3: neither eggs nor dairy, and so it is even further removed.

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Speaker 3: But yet it's still very much in the spirit of

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Speaker 3: of of the classic nog. So I think it more

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Speaker 3: than qualifies.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, nog is a thick, creamy, sweet drink.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's a state of mind. It's it's it's a

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Speaker 3: holiday tradition. Now, one of the sources I'm going to

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Speaker 3: refer back to several times in this episode is the

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Speaker 3: excellent book Imbibe exclamation Point by David Wandriche, which is

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Speaker 3: a text that we've referenced in the show in the past.

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Speaker 3: It is one of, if not the best books you

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Speaker 3: can pick up on the history of the American cocktail.

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Speaker 3: This is a great book. It cites, among many others,

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Speaker 3: the legendary professor Jerry Thomas, who lived eighteen thirty through

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Speaker 3: eighteen eighty five, the New Orleans bartender who wrote the

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Speaker 3: Seminole Bartender's Guide and helped popularize cocktail drinking in general.

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Speaker 3: Were go into more depth on this in an older

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Speaker 3: episode or episodes that we did together on Mixology.

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Speaker 4: I think we ended up talking about absentth a lot

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Speaker 4: in those.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that would make sense, And I know Jerry Thomas

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Speaker 3: also comes up in the recent episode on ice the

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Speaker 3: interview that I did. But according to Wondrich, basic milk

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Speaker 3: punches go back to the late sixteen hundreds, and to

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Speaker 3: give you an example of what a milk punch consists of.

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Speaker 3: And again this is not an egg milk punch, This

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Speaker 3: is just a milk punch Wondriche includes a recipe from

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Speaker 3: Jerry Thomas. Jerry Thomas would have you know, brought up

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Speaker 3: together a bunch of these different recipes for drinks and

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Speaker 3: put them in his own book at the time. This

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Speaker 3: particular recipe from Jerry Thomas calls for sugar water, brandy, rum,

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Speaker 3: and shaved ice. A little nutmeg goes on top, and

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Speaker 3: Wandritch includes a quote from this is an eighteen seventy

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Speaker 3: three quote from the Brooklyn Eagle that states that this

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Speaker 3: punch was quote the surest thing in the world to

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Speaker 3: get drunk on, and so fearfully drunk that you won't

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Speaker 3: know whether you are a cow, yourself or some other

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Speaker 3: foolish thing.

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Speaker 4: Hmmm, that's that's good. No. One thing I have to

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Speaker 4: point out is that when you listed the ingredients, you

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Speaker 4: did not list milk. So I assume these are the

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Speaker 4: things that are added to the milk.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, okay, yeah. The milk would would also be

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Speaker 3: be an important part of this. So already we're kind

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Speaker 3: of in the territory of what we think of when

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Speaker 3: we think about eggnog, but of course there are no

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Speaker 3: eggs there now. When it comes to eggnog itself, Thomas

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Speaker 3: was very much of the opinion that eggnog was quote

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Speaker 3: a beverage of American origin, and Wondrich states that quote

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Speaker 3: the drink's earliest mentions come from a seventeen eighty eight

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Speaker 3: Philadelphia newspaper, and all the other mentions are American and

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Speaker 3: if early European travelers to the United States viewed it

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Speaker 3: as one of the novelties Americans were inflicting on the

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Speaker 3: art of drinking. By the eighteen sixties, it was a

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Speaker 3: drink of comfortable middle age with a wide, if strictly

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Speaker 3: seasonal popularity. When Thomas added that in the North quote

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Speaker 3: it is a favorite of all seasons, he was certainly

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Speaker 3: overstating the case.

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Speaker 4: So you bring up that mention in the seventeen eighty

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Speaker 4: eight newspaper, and this name drop of eggnog as a

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Speaker 4: recipe is also referenced in a great source I found

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Speaker 4: that was aimed at unearthing the etymological history of eggnog,

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Speaker 4: because it's obvious why the word egg is in the name.

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Speaker 4: There are eggs in it, but what exactly is anog? Could,

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Speaker 4: as the Simpsons proposed, you equally whip up a cauldron

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Speaker 4: of corn nog.

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Speaker 3: Cornnog sounds a delicious like it brings to mind like

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Speaker 3: corn puddings.

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Speaker 4: I think it occurs in the Simpsons episode with the hurricane,

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Speaker 4: when the stores are there's a run on the quickie

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Speaker 4: mart and the only things left on the shelves are

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Speaker 4: corn nog and wadded beef. But anyway, diving into the

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Speaker 4: history and etymology of eggnog or corn nog whatever, what

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Speaker 4: have you? Any nogs? My source here is a December

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Speaker 4: two thousand and nine article called the Origins of Eggnog

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Speaker 4: Holiday Grog by the American linguist and language columnist Ben Zimmer,

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Speaker 4: who is brother of the excellent science writer Karl Zimmer,

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Speaker 4: who's been a guest on the show.

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Speaker 3: Before Huh Crazy.

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Speaker 4: So here's what Ben Zimmer says about nog. The word

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Speaker 4: nog first shows up as a regional term in England,

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Speaker 4: specifically in the region of East Anglia, so it's the

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Speaker 4: eastern part of the country containing Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire,

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Speaker 4: and it referred that term there referred to a type

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Speaker 4: of beer. We know this because of a letter written

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Speaker 4: from the County of Norfolk in the year sixteen ninety

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Speaker 4: three by a man named Humphrey Prideaux, who described quote

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Speaker 4: a bottle of old strong beer, which in this country

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Speaker 4: they call nog. So nog is high gravity beer. It's

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Speaker 4: strong stuff. But to take one step back, why would

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Speaker 4: the East Anglians call strong beer nog. Zimmer identifies a

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Speaker 4: couple of hypotheses here. One is that it comes from

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Speaker 4: the word noggin, which we today think of as antiquated

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Speaker 4: slang for head for your head. But before that nogin

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Speaker 4: meant a small mug or a small drink of spirits.

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Speaker 4: So perhaps noggin was shorter, was shortened to nog, and

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Speaker 4: it came to refer to the beer inside the mug

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Speaker 4: instead of the mug itself. And we do that kind

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Speaker 4: of metonymy with words today like did you have one? Oh,

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Speaker 4: I drank two glasses. You're not saying you literally drank

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Speaker 4: the glass. The glasses mean the wine inside the glass, right.

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Speaker 4: But another idea is that the word nog for strong

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Speaker 4: beer comes from a Scottish word nug or nuged ale,

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Speaker 4: which means ale that you heat up by sticking a

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Speaker 4: hot poker in it, which is funny enough to imagine

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Speaker 4: in itself, but I can also see how that would

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Speaker 4: correspond to a drink with strong alcohol alcohol content, because

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Speaker 4: drinks with higher alcohol content are often said to taste

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Speaker 4: warm or even to burn.

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Speaker 3: Hmmm, yeah, this is this is interesting. It brings to

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Speaker 3: mind you the images of some of these older drinks

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Speaker 3: where you'd you would you would stick the hot poker

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Speaker 3: or some sort of hot metal into it. I think

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Speaker 3: there's a scene in the excellent TV series The Nick

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Speaker 3: where you see some of the characters getting a drink

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Speaker 3: of this fashion.

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Speaker 4: M Okay, So so far, we've got the idea that

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Speaker 4: you start with either a little mug called a noggin

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Speaker 4: or a type of beer warmed with a hot poker

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Speaker 4: called a nug And somehow one of these terms gets

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Speaker 4: poured it over into this East Anglian word nog, which

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Speaker 4: means strong beer. But how does that actually get connected

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Speaker 4: to the sweet, milky, eggy drink we are familiar with.

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Speaker 4: We don't know for sure, but the link in the

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Speaker 4: chain seems to be alcohol. Because while you can buy

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Speaker 4: kid friendly nog in the dairy issle these days, everything

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Speaker 4: I've been reading suggests that early eggnog was boozy. That

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Speaker 4: was a primary characteristic of what the noog was. It

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Speaker 4: had a lot of alcohol in it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, that's exactly what I saw in all of

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Speaker 3: my research. Nobody's talking about eggnog is something that is

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Speaker 3: then spiked. It is inherently spiked.

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Speaker 4: And Zimmer reports that a Maryland clergyman named Jonathan Bouchet

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Speaker 4: is alleged to have written the first known reference to

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Speaker 4: eggnog and a poem in seventeen seventy five, but this

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Speaker 4: poem was not published until about thirty years later, so

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Speaker 4: we don't know when it was actually written for sure.

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Speaker 4: But the relevant section of the poem goes like this,

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Speaker 4: fog DRAMs in the morn or better still eggnog. This

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Speaker 4: is nog with two g's at night hot suppings and

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Speaker 4: at mid day grog my palate can regale. So you

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Speaker 4: see the context here is fully alcoholic grog refers to

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Speaker 4: a spirit or alcoholic beverage. Then there's that line, fog

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Speaker 4: DRAMs in the morn or better still eggnog. A dram

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Speaker 4: usually refers to a small drink of whiskey, and according

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Speaker 4: to Miriam Webster, fog DRAMs are quote DRAMs resorted to

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Speaker 4: on the pretense of their protecting from the danger of fog.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, boss, I had to have another whiskey before

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Speaker 4: work or the fog could have killed me on the

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Speaker 4: way here.

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Speaker 3: All right, Well, yeah, this is making sense. Is an

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Speaker 3: early morning drink though, because you get your your fog

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Speaker 3: protection you get a couple of eggs in there, maybe

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Speaker 3: you know this is a breakfast that you're drinking down exactly.

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Speaker 4: So Bouchet may have written that in seventy seventy five.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to say for sure, but according to Zimmer,

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Speaker 4: the earliest at rock solid references to eggnog where we

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Speaker 4: know the date of their publication, appear in a handful

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Speaker 4: of newspapers in the year seventeen eighty eight, as you

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Speaker 4: mentioned earlier. Now one is a March seventeen eighty eight

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Speaker 4: report in the New Jersey Journal, which and I love

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Speaker 4: that this is what some newspaper articles consisted of at

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Speaker 4: the time. It says, a young man with a cormorant

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Speaker 4: appetite meaning like gluttonous, A young man with a cormorant

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Speaker 4: appetite voraciously devoured last week at Connecticut Farms thirty raw eggs,

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Speaker 4: a glass of eggnog, and another of brandy sling.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, is this what newspapers were back in the day.

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Speaker 3: Did you have like a gluttony page where you're like,

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Speaker 3: what's everybody overeating in New Jersey?

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Speaker 4: Stop the presses. We've got to get this story, this

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Speaker 4: hot story about the guy who ate thirty eggs in there. Okay,

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Speaker 4: so whatever eggnog is at the time, he had some

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Speaker 4: Another article is from October seventeen eighty eight in the

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Speaker 4: Independent Gazetteer of Philadelphia, where a writer was complaining about

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Speaker 4: an upset stomach and wrote, quote, when wine and beer,

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Speaker 4: punch and eggnog meat instantly ensues.

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Speaker 3: A quarrel, there's wisdom to that. I think.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've only ever heard the liquor before beer kind

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Speaker 4: of thing. I've never heard it taken out to four

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Speaker 4: different things with like punch and eggnog in there.

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Speaker 3: You know, we were looking back at a time when

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Speaker 3: drinking was a little more robust throughout the country. I think.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So anyway, yeah, I love the fact that newspapers

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Speaker 4: not only used to report on what some guy aded

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Speaker 4: a form, but also what gave me an upset tummy.

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Speaker 4: So it sounds like an alcohol beverage known as eggnog

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Speaker 4: was in common parlance in the colonies and the young

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Speaker 4: United States in the late eighteenth century. But Zimmer also

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Speaker 4: documents how an early example of eggnog was associated with

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Speaker 4: Christmas celebration by citing a piece in the Virginia Chronicle

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Speaker 4: from January seventeen ninety three, which reads as follows. On

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Speaker 4: last Christmas Eve, several gentlemen met at Northampton Courthouse and

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Speaker 4: spent the evening in mirth and festivity when eggnog was

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Speaker 4: the principal liquor used by the company. After they had

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Speaker 4: indulged pretty freely in this beverage, a gentleman in the

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Speaker 4: company offered a bet that not one of the party

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Speaker 4: could write four verses extempore, which should be rhyme and sence. Okay,

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Speaker 4: He's like, we're so drunk, I bet none of you

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Speaker 4: can write four lines of poetry that will make sense

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Speaker 4: and rhyme. So what did they come up with? While

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Speaker 4: one guy belts out the following, 'tis eggnog, whose golden

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Speaker 4: streams dispense far richer treasures to the Ravish sense, the

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Speaker 4: muse from wine derives a transient glare, but Eggnog's drafts

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Speaker 4: afford her solid fare. So move over, wine. The muses

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Speaker 4: are no longer interested in you now they will only

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Speaker 4: be singing to people who are chug and agnog.

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Speaker 3: Eggnog doesn't seem to have a personification, though, like there's

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Speaker 3: no like satyr of eggnog.

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Speaker 4: Right the Dionysus of eggnog.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I suppose it's you know, he was before its time.

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Speaker 3: I think he would have approved of egnog, especially based

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Speaker 3: on these historical references to agnog.

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Speaker 4: So do we know exactly what they were putting in

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Speaker 4: eggnog at the time. Well, there's a book from seventeen

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Speaker 4: ninety nine called Travels through the States of North America

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Speaker 4: and the Provinces of Upper and Lower Canada during the

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Speaker 4: years seventy ninety five, ninety six and ninety seven by

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Speaker 4: an Irish writer and explorer named Isaac Weld, And this

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Speaker 4: passage actually reminds me of earlier when you were citing

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Speaker 4: I think David Wondrich who said that sometimes people from

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Speaker 4: Europe might encounter eggnog and think, oh, you know, what

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Speaker 4: crimes they're committing against drinking culture here in the Americas.

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Speaker 4: And I wonder if there's a little bit of that

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Speaker 4: kind of raised eyebrow going on in this passage. But

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Speaker 4: we'll see what you think. So Weld is writing about

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Speaker 4: a stop at an inn near Baltimore, Maryland, where he writes, quote,

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Speaker 4: several travelers had stopped at the same house that I

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Speaker 4: did the first night I was on the road, and

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Speaker 4: we all breakfasted together preparatory to setting out the next morning.

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Speaker 4: The American travelers, before they pursued their journey, took a

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Speaker 4: hearty draft each. According to custom of eggnog, a mixture

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Speaker 4: composed of new milk, eggs, rum, and sugar beat up together.

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Speaker 4: So eggnog it should be heavy, sweet, exploding with alcohol,

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Speaker 4: drunk in large quantities in the morning before setting out

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Speaker 4: on a long journey.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is I mean it really it forces you

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Speaker 3: to rethink egnog because I think a lot of people

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Speaker 3: are probably like like me, You grew up exposed to again,

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Speaker 3: the grocery store eggnog, and there's this kind of sense

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Speaker 3: that eggnog is this drink for everybody. Eggnog's this drink

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Speaker 3: for kids. And as you get older, then you're perhaps

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Speaker 3: in a situation where you can have the eggnog with

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Speaker 3: something added to it, eggnog plus you know, if you like.

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Speaker 3: But this is but the historical truth of eggnog is no,

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Speaker 3: this is the thing that the really drunken adults are

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Speaker 3: having sometimes first thing in the morning.

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Speaker 4: Also regarding famous eggnog recipes from the early days of

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Speaker 4: the United States, there is a famous recipe for eggnog

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Speaker 4: that is alleged to come from George Washington's kitchen papers.

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Speaker 4: You'll find this if you google George Washington's egnog. I've

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Speaker 4: seen some serious day out cast upon its origins, like

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Speaker 4: whether it was actually Washington's. But according to the Farmer's Almanac,

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Speaker 4: this famous recipe goes as follows. It's one quart cream,

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Speaker 4: one quart milk, one dozen tablespoons sugar, one pint brandy,

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Speaker 4: half a pint rye whiskey, half a pint Jamaica rum,

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Speaker 4: and a quarter pint sherry. And then you mix the liquor,

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Speaker 4: separate the yolks in the whites of twelve eggs, add

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Speaker 4: sugar to the beaten yolks. Mix well. Then you add

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Speaker 4: milk and cream, slowly beating, beat the whites of the

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Speaker 4: eggs until stiff peaks form, then fold slowly into the mixture.

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Speaker 4: Then you let it sit in a cool place for

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Speaker 4: several days. Then quote taste frequently. And I could be wrong,

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Speaker 4: but I believe this is the recipe that our colleague,

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Speaker 4: our colleague Alex Williams uses when he makes his famous

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Speaker 4: eggnog for all of our coworkers.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it definitely is This is definitely the recipe he

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Speaker 3: would use, and it is quite lightful. But yeah, I

383
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 3: encountered the same thing. Looking at the actual history of this,

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Speaker 3: there's some doubt as to whether George Washington actually serve this.

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Speaker 3: And then there are some accounts that say, well, it

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Speaker 3: looks like maybe there's evidence that eggnog was served at

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Speaker 3: Mount Vernon, But as far as the precise recipe, I

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Speaker 3: don't know that there's a lot of data to back

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Speaker 3: that up. Yeah, though we will have we will touch

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Speaker 3: on at least one former US president who did have

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Speaker 3: a recipe for egnog and did serve it and drink it.

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Speaker 3: All right, all this being said, before we proceed with eggnog,

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Speaker 3: I think we can at least consider the possibility of

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Speaker 3: predecessors that, Yes, even if egnog is something that emerges

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Speaker 3: in North America, there are at least things not unlike

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Speaker 3: egnog that one can encounter, say in at least late

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Speaker 3: medieval and post medieval Europe.

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Speaker 4: Oh, yes, some gorgeous textures to imagine.

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Speaker 3: Yes, let's go back to the late Middle Ages and

400
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 3: drink some hard milk. So European holiday traditions, which of

401
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 3: course inform holiday traditions and Colonial America and beyond are

402
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 3: a mix of Christian traditions, more ancient traditions, and a

403
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 3: great deal of regional variability. I was, in fact just

404
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Speaker 3: researching the Hooden or Hoden Horse of Kent for the

405
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 3: Monster Facts series, and I think that's a great example

406
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Speaker 3: of this. It brings to mind various costume street wandering

407
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 3: traditions as well as caroling and was sailing. Wassaile, of course,

408
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 3: is a door to door ritualistic and communal hot drink

409
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Speaker 3: that typically contained mulled cider ale or wine and spices.

410
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Speaker 3: But then there is the tradition of the passet posset

411
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Speaker 3: the passet. Yes, The Smithsonian magazine website has a nice

412
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Speaker 3: article about this titled Past the Posset colon the Medieval

413
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 3: Eggnog by Lisa Brahman, and according to this article, it

414
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 3: apparently dates back to late medieval Europe, and it looks

415
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 3: like some of the examples come to us from the

416
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 3: post medieval world and beyond. Anyway, the passet itself is

417
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 3: a drinking vessel, as Brayman points out, and you see

418
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Speaker 3: mention of it even in Shakespeare's Macbeth, in which lady

419
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Speaker 3: Macbeth poisons the posets of the guards outside Duncan's quarters.

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Speaker 4: Oh I forgot about that.

421
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Speaker 3: I had as well. When the author here brings it up,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, yeah, I do remember that line vaguely.

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Speaker 3: But you encounter so many archaic courts if you're reading

424
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Speaker 3: or performing Shakespeare that you can't stop to wonder. Overall,

425
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 3: it's enough to be like, okay, this means drinking vessel. Okay,

426
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 3: what's the next strange word that doesn't quite register for me?

427
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 3: Let me translate that one in my head. But this

428
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 3: is You can actually look up examples of this vessel

429
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Speaker 3: online the pauset, this posset, and you'll find that some

430
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 3: of the main examples of this it looks curiously like

431
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 3: an ornate tea pot with handles on both sides, a

432
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 3: wide lidded aperture at the top, with a with a

433
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 3: with a lid on top, and the stem for it,

434
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 3: you know, like that like a t kettle. It feeds

435
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 3: from the bottom of the vessel rather than from the

436
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 3: middle or the top of the vessel.

437
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

438
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 3: The reason for this design, according to Brayman, is that

439
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 3: you can drink directly from the stem to get at

440
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 3: the liquid contents of the of the of the liquid

441
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 3: it contains, but also you can take the lid off

442
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 3: the top and go at the top of it with

443
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 3: a spoon, because basically you're gonna have a mixture of things.

444
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 3: You're gonna have a fluid beneath and kind of a

445
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 3: chonky chonky, creamy perhaps cheesy layer at the top.

446
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 4: So this is like, it's like a curdled milk drink

447
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 4: that has that has cheesy, floaty solid bits on the

448
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 4: top you want to get with a spoon.

449
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: Yes, the way that Brayman describes it as quote both

450
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 3: a drink and a dessert with a layer of thick,

451
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 3: sweet gruel floating above the liquid. Okay, so okay. On

452
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 3: one hand, I realized that could potentially be interpreted as gross.

453
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 3: But on the other hand, I think it's not that

454
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 3: different from a lot of sort of frothy dessert things

455
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 3: we have today. I think about certain milkshakes, certain smoothies,

456
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 3: certainly especially the older school cappuccinos, where the foam cap

457
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 3: on top was maybe a little firmer, and you might

458
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,719
Speaker 3: have to go at that with a spoon as opposed

459
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 3: to drinking it. So I kind of reject the idea

460
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 3: that this potential hygiene issues aside of late medieval ages,

461
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 3: I don't think this is necessarily that gross of an

462
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 3: idea that you could have some sort of like a

463
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: thick portion on the top of your beverage that requires

464
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 3: a spoon. It's just like a little different to imagine

465
00:26:53,680 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 3: this bizarre container for its consumption. Though nowadays I do

466
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 3: want to point out we do have things like the

467
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 3: spoon straw, which is like a plastic usually like a

468
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 3: plastic straw and spoon combined so that you can do both.

469
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 3: They did not have this technology in the late medieval

470
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 3: period to my knowledge. Therefore they had to use a posset.

471
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 4: Well, you know, it is the same principle as a straw,

472
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 4: which I don't find unusual. But I have to say,

473
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 4: it is funny to imagine somebody like drinking out of

474
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 4: the stem of a tea kettle.

475
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it does seem like you might burn your

476
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 3: mouth with this. So recorded recipes, many of these came later.

477
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 3: I believe they called if you were going to fill

478
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 3: the pauset, it would call for a great deal of

479
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 3: egg and cream. They might also call for beer, sugar,

480
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 3: and also thickening agents such as bread, biscuits, oatmeal, and

481
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 3: almond paste. In some cases, the upper portions are said

482
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 3: to take on a cheesey quality, which actually brings to

483
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 3: mind modern cheese milk tea drinks, which are quite delightful.

484
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 3: If you haven't had one, I know this is something

485
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 3: that can be kind of hard to imagine. Why should

486
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 3: my milk tea taste like cheese? Well, it's it's not

487
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 3: what you're imagining if you're imagining something that turns your stomach.

488
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 3: It's not like cheddar cheese on the top of your tea.

489
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 3: It's something sweetier and creamier, but with that slight cheesy

490
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 3: twist to it, not like provolone right right now. I

491
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 3: should also mentioned there are more contemporary pauset dishes, such

492
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 3: as you often see recipes for something called a lemon pauset,

493
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 3: but this seems somewhat more refined compared to what is

494
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 3: described here. This is not something you drink out of

495
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 3: a strange tea kettle. It's something you spoon out of

496
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 3: a dish. But is it eggnog? Well, in many ways,

497
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 3: if not most ways, no, But it also sounds like

498
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 3: the sort of thing that if you were a time

499
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 3: traveler from an eggnog having culture and you went back

500
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 3: to the late medieval ages and you're like, where's my eggnog?

501
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 3: And people are like, what are you talking about? You

502
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: might cover the posset and be like, oh, well this

503
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 3: will work, this will do. Now my holiday is complete.

504
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a liquidy egg and milk or egg and

505
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 4: cream type thing.

506
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 3: Right, And I think it's not crazy to imagine that

507
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 3: this sort of precedent for this sort of drink and

508
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 3: the sort of taste sensations that it brings about, that

509
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 3: this could feed into the very American traditions that would,

510
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 3: according to Thomas, bring about the American eggnog.

511
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 4: So I assume after we get out of this early

512
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 4: period where mentions are scarce and don't really explain much

513
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 4: about eggnog except like the Irish guy who's clearly not

514
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,959
Speaker 4: familiar with it, we get into a period where there

515
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 4: is more extensive writing on eggnog, maybe like in actual

516
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 4: cookery manuals.

517
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot more material once you were

518
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 3: a certain point. And wonderch has a whole chapter on

519
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 3: egg drinks in his book im Vibe. As he writes it,

520
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 3: there quote neither punches nor part of the lineage of

521
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: cock tails, and this is also somewhat how Jerry Thomas

522
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 3: and the people of his day would have classified them.

523
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: One of the things that really amazed me about all this, though,

524
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 3: is that Wondridge points out that egg drinks were once

525
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: far more common and kind of a daily affair, but

526
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 3: that few survive today. This kind of comes back to

527
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 3: your example earlier about egg nog for breakfast, why not perfect,

528
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 3: keep the fog away, etc. Now, now I should point

529
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 3: out this is the two thousand and seven books, so

530
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if we've seen anything in the way

531
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 3: of a resurgence of egg drinks. It might be the case, though,

532
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 3: given the spirit of cocktail making and it's tend to

533
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: re explore older fashions and even remake them with modern twists.

534
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 3: I don't feel like it's tremendously uncommon to find at

535
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 3: least a single egg drink on a fancy cocktail menu,

536
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 3: though to be sure, you probably won't find them on

537
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 3: just random restaurant cocktail menus, Like I don't know if

538
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 3: Chili's offers an egg drink.

539
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think, what are the standard egg drinks

540
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 4: other well, I guess there are like drinks I don't

541
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 4: usually get, but like, aren't there like sours and fizzes

542
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 4: and stuff that have that have egg whites in them.

543
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. Wondred points out that the major survivors include the

544
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 3: nineteenth century Tom and Jerry drink. This would be not

545
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 3: getting into the proportions, but it's like sugar, eggs rum, cinnamon, cloves, allspice.

546
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,479
Speaker 3: There's the sherry flip, which is basically egg, sugar and sherry,

547
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: and he discusses his elsewhere in the book. But of

548
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 3: course there's the Ramos gin Fizz, which is pretty famous

549
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 3: New Orleans drink that contains gin, simple syrup, lemon juice,

550
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 3: lime juice, egg white, heavy cream, orange flower water, and

551
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 3: club soda. It's one that famously requires a great deal

552
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 3: of shaking. You may receive a dirty look from the

553
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 3: bartender when you order it because of all the shaking

554
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 3: it's going to require. Sometimes they are to pass it

555
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: off to another bartender to continue shake shaking it. But

556
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 3: it is also a delightful drink. But yeah. He Wonderage

557
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 3: points out though that even though we only have so

558
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 3: many drinks that kind of survived, there was this time

559
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 3: where where egg based drinks. Egg egg based alcoholic drinks

560
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 3: were consumed on pretty much a daily basis and were

561
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 3: as popular as eggnog drinks are during the holiday year round.

562
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 3: So just imagine, imagine a world in which eggnog is

563
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 3: stocked at the grocery store year round to meet people's

564
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 3: demand for it, and everybody's having it boozed up. Not

565
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 3: that they bought it at the grocery store, they made it.

566
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 3: You get my point.

567
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 4: That's that sounds like a magical time, a very rich,

568
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 4: rich time.

569
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, But as Paul Clark points out in the Imbibed

570
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 3: magazine article, elements egg cocktails, changing tastes and salmonella scares

571
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 3: pretty much chased raw eggs out of the bar. And

572
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 3: this would be kind of this would be the reason

573
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 3: that only so many egg drinks kind of survived this

574
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 3: period of time in which, on one hand, yet changing taste.

575
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 3: You can imagine, perhaps you know, there are new fads

576
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 3: in cocktails, new ingredients are more readily available for cocktails,

577
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: and then there's this whole issue of salmonella.

578
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 4: Salmonella concerns, of course, remain relevant to this day, and

579
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 4: we'll come back to those in just a few minutes.

580
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: Now.

581
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 3: Wondrich also points out there was a great deal of

582
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 3: variation when it came to eggnog recipes, which I imagine

583
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 3: is going to be the case with any popular drink,

584
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 3: even if the recipe isn't secret. See the Invention episode

585
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 3: we did about the my Tie for examples of this.

586
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 3: On both counts. If the recipe is secret, people are

587
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 3: going to try and recreate it, and even if the

588
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 3: secret is if there's no secret, if the recipe is

589
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 3: well known, you're going to end up having deviations anyway.

590
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 3: For instance, anywhere you go today the my Thie recipe,

591
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 3: there's no telling what a restaurant will actually serve you

592
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 3: if you order a my Tie, even though the original

593
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 3: recipe is very well known at this point, or it's

594
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 3: very easily obtained if you have a desire to seek

595
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 3: it out. But these regional differences in eggnog, this would

596
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 3: really make people emotional. A Wondred show points out this

597
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 3: account where there's a judge who encountered eggnog in an

598
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 3: inn and it didn't have whiskey enough in it, and

599
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 3: therefore there was this huge altercation.

600
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean again, going back to stories about ends,

601
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 4: you don't say what time of day this is, But

602
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,919
Speaker 4: this eggnog might have been his morning eggnog, which sets

603
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 4: the tone for the entire day. It's like, you know,

604
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 4: if you don't get your coffee right in the morning,

605
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:29,919
Speaker 4: that's bad news.

606
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. If I don't get my heavily alcoholic eggnog in

607
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 3: the morning, I'm no good now. Sometimes those regional differences, though,

608
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 3: are going to be entirely based on what is available

609
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 3: to you, And a great example of this is the

610
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 3: Texian version of eggnog. He includes the recipe in the

611
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 3: book Is It Stems? It Stems from General Thomas Green

612
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 3: of the Army of the Texas Republic from eighteen forty three.

613
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 3: The recipe serves about one hundred and sixty for seven

614
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 3: gallons of mez cow, seven gallons of donkey milk, thirty

615
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 3: dozen eggs, and a large loaf of sugar.

616
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 4: I love that sugar used to come in loaves.

617
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, if you're making eggnog for one hundred and

618
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 3: sixty and a number of these recipes do call for

619
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 3: large vats of eggnog, but this is quite a lot.

620
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 3: I mean, seven gallons of mezcal, seven gallons of donkey milk.

621
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 4: I've never tasted donkey milk. I don't even know what

622
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 4: that would be like.

623
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 3: I again two thousand and seven book, but Wondrich mentioned

624
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 3: that donkey milk was becoming popular at the time in

625
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 3: Europe due to this. I supposely it had some health

626
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 3: advantages to it. I don't know if that's true. I

627
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 3: don't know if it's still popular as an alternative milk.

628
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 3: I don't think I've seen it in myself in health

629
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 3: fied stores. But then again, I'm not really in the

630
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 3: market for donkey milk anyway. Well, Wondrich roughly translates the

631
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 3: recipe for modern drinkers in that book. He of course

632
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 3: says you can use cow mil instead of donkey milk,

633
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 3: and he also recommends grating a little chocolate on top.

634
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 3: So Jerry Thomas apparently chronicled six different eggnog recipes, and

635
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 3: wonder Wich includes recipes for three of them in his book.

636
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 3: Roughly speaking, these are the contents of these three that

637
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 3: he shares. There's Baltimore eggnog, eggs sugar, nutmeg, brandy or

638
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 3: rum wine, egg whites and milk. There's eggnog individual, which

639
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 3: calls for sugar, cold water, egg cognac, Santa Cruz, rum

640
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 3: and milk. And then there's General Harrison's agnog. This is

641
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 3: ninth American President, William Henry Harrison, and this was said

642
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 3: to be one of his favorites. It called for egg sugar,

643
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 3: hard cider, and lumps of ice. Important to note here

644
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 3: that cider drinking was part of his brand. His whole

645
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: image that he tried to put out was like, I'm

646
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 3: not really at home in this old Washington environment. I

647
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 3: just want to sit on the porch and drink some

648
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 3: hard cider. Won't you have some of my hard cider

649
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 3: based aggnog and vote for me? Yeah?

650
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 4: That was him saying like, I'm just a you know,

651
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 4: a hard working frontiersman. I'm not one of these elites.

652
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I don't know. I mean, I appreciate hard cider,

653
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 3: but this sounds horrific. I don't think I would I

654
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 3: would want any part of this. So General Harrison, no,

655
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 3: thank you.

656
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 4: General Harrison also died about some like thirty days into

657
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 4: his first presidential term. Yeah, he's the one who he

658
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 4: didn't really make it very far. And their speculation about

659
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 4: why he died, but one of them is that he

660
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 4: may have succumbed to the fact that the water supply

661
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 4: at the White House at the time was heavily contaminated

662
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 4: with raw sewage.

663
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 3: Huh interesting. I had a whole tangent for this episode

664
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 3: about twelfth US President Zachary Taylor, who fell ill with

665
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 3: a fatal illness on July fourth of eighteen fifty after

666
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 3: a DC fundraiser that he had tended where he quote

667
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 3: drank freely of iced water and chilled milk. According to

668
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 3: biographer K. Jack Bauer in the book Zachary Taylor's Soldier,

669
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 3: Planter Statesman of the Old Southwest. So I've seen this

670
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 3: described as copious amounts of cherries and iced milk. Apparently

671
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 3: he preferred drinking chilled milk. That was his thing. That

672
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 3: was the hardest drink that Zachary Taylor was known to

673
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 3: imbibe himself. But I cut most of this out because

674
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 3: he wasn't drinking, as far as I can tell, a

675
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 3: cherry chilled milk concoction. It was just chilled milk and

676
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 3: then also a lot of cherries.

677
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 4: And probably plenty of raw sewage.

678
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 3: Is it time for salmonella?

679
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's a great transition. So eggs and salmonilla.

680
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 4: Salmonilla remains probably the main reason we have reservations about

681
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 4: raw egg based food and drinks today. Salmonella is a

682
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 4: genus of bacteria named not after salmon the fish, but

683
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 4: after an American veterinarian named Daniel Elmer Salmon. Though it

684
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 4: was not discovered by him, it was named after him

685
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 4: basically because a species of Salmonella was discovered by an

686
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 4: assistant in a lab who worked for salmon. The assistant's

687
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 4: name was Theobald Smith, but of course the boss gets

688
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 4: all the glory. Some zero types of salmonella are responsible

689
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 4: for really serious and historically significant diseases, such as typhoid fever,

690
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 4: but multiple types of salmonilla will result in infections of

691
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 4: the intestinal tract, so salmonilla infection or salmonellosis, is one

692
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 4: of the most common food born illnesses, often characterized by fever, diarrhea,

693
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 4: severe stomach cramps, nausea, vomiting, and headache. And because salmonella

694
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 4: is often transmitted through the fecal oral route, the risk

695
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 4: of contracting it is higher when people don't have access

696
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 4: to clean drinking water and effective sewage disposal. Though salmonella

697
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 4: can also be transmitted between animals and humans, so animal

698
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 4: vectors such as eggs from infected chickens can be a

699
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 4: major source of salmonellosis in humans as well. Now, on

700
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 4: the other hand, one thing to remember is that most

701
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 4: eggs are fine. Most eggs are not infected with salmonilla.

702
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 4: I don't know what the exact proportion is, but one

703
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 4: figure I saw kicking around from the two thousands was

704
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 4: a CDC estimate that roughly one in every twenty thousand

705
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 4: chicken eggs in the United States was contaminated. That number

706
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 4: may be different today. If so, it's probably somewhat lower

707
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 4: than that. But you know, I'm not saying you should

708
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 4: go about eating raw eggs. There is definitely risk there,

709
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 4: but also like the odds are pretty low that any

710
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 4: given egg is going to make you sick. Also, eggs

711
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 4: are fine if you cook them to the proper temperature

712
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 4: for the proper time. One hundred and sixty degrees fahrenheit

713
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 4: will kill just about anything instantly. Also, you know, even

714
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 4: lower temperatures, if held for a sufficient amount of time,

715
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 4: will be enough to basically sterilize eggs. This is you

716
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 4: can look up charts on the amount of time eggs

717
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 4: need to spend at a certain temperature in order to

718
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 4: make them safe. However, eggnog is traditionally not made with

719
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 4: eggs that are cooked at all, but rather with raw ones.

720
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 4: So is there any risk, Well, yes, obviously if you

721
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 4: are just drinking raw eggs straight up, there is some

722
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 4: risk of salmonilla infection. One example of this, I mean

723
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 4: it happens all the time, but one example one case

724
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 4: study I dug up with an interesting secondary finding. This

725
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 4: is a study published in the Lancet in nineteen seven

726
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 4: by Steer at All called person to person spread of

727
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 4: Salmonella typhimurium after a hospital common source outbreak. So the

728
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 4: abstract reads, in September nineteen seventy three, diarrhea caused by

729
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 4: Salmonella typhemurium developed in thirty two people in a main hospital.

730
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 4: Both epidemiological and microbiological evidence indicated that raw egg beaten

731
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 4: in milk for eggnog was responsible for the infection. However,

732
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 4: six patients and eight employees had not had eggnog, and

733
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 4: their illness developed after the source of infection had been

734
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 4: recognized and removed. Most of these people had had direct

735
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 4: contact with an infected patient and presumably acquired the infection

736
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 4: by person to person spread. It's concluded that person to

737
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 4: person spread of Salmonilla typhemurium can occur in hospitals and

738
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 4: can be a hazard to patients and staff. So initially

739
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 4: a bunch of people in a hospital got salmonella from

740
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 4: drinking eggnog, but then those people gave secondary infections to

741
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 4: others who didn't even touch the nog. Also, I wanted

742
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 4: to share another medical journal article I found just because

743
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 4: I thought it was very weird. This is called Eyelid

744
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 4: absess in an eggnog Drinker by Marcus and Wolverson, published

745
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 4: in the British Medical Journal nineteen eighty nine. Short story

746
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 4: is a seventy two year old man showed up at

747
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 4: a hospital in England with a huge abscess swelling on

748
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 4: his left upper eyelid, which they eventually determined had spread

749
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 4: to an infection of the bone in his forehead, the

750
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 4: bone above where his eye was. So he was put

751
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 4: under general anesthesia and the absess was drained. They did

752
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 4: a culture of the pus and it revealed the presence

753
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 4: of a type of salmonella. They eventually did another procedure

754
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 4: to take care of the swelling in the bones of

755
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 4: the face, and he eventually made a full recovery. The

756
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 4: man had no gastrointestinal symptoms, and the authors say that

757
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 4: there had been recent cases of salmonilla infection related to eggs,

758
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 4: so they asked him about his diet, and here I'm

759
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 4: going to read from the case report. His diet consisted

760
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 4: of West Indian and European food, but he said that

761
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 4: he cooked all eggs well. When he was seen in

762
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 4: the outpatient department, he was specifically asked if he drank eggnog,

763
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 4: and he then admitted drinking it frequently, using a recipe

764
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 4: of raw eggs, brandy, sugar, milk, and vanilla essence. Now,

765
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 4: the authors say they could find no previous evidence of

766
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 4: this particular type of salmonella causing an eyelid absess, but

767
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 4: that there are other known cases of this bacterial infection

768
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 4: spreading from a gut infection originally to a secondary infection

769
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,320
Speaker 4: elsewhere in the body, such as in the bones, especially

770
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 4: the long bones, especially in patients with underlying medical conditions

771
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 4: and in patients over seventy years of age. And finally,

772
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 4: the author's write quote from nineteen eighty one to nineteen

773
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 4: eighty six, the proportion of salmonilla infections caused by salmonella,

774
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 4: and then they're talking about a specific type here. Salmonella

775
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 4: in teriditis rose from eleven percent to twenty eight percent.

776
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,760
Speaker 4: This rise was due mainly to a rise in phage

777
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 4: type four infections. Transmission of this phage type has been

778
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 4: increasingly associated with poultry, and it is now known to

779
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 4: be transmitted in eggs. Egg born Salmonilla in teroditis is

780
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 4: destroyed by thorough cooking. The raw egg in the eggnog

781
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 4: may have been the vehicle of infection. Unless specifically asked for,

782
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 4: a history of eggnog drinking may not emerge on dietary questioning.

783
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 4: But okay, now, I'm sure a lot of people out

784
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 4: there are wondering, Wait a minute. Okay, Obviously, you know

785
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 4: you mix up a bunch of raw eggs and you

786
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 4: just drink that, that definitely is putting you at risk.

787
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 4: But if you put alcohol in the eggnog, surely that

788
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 4: would be safe.

789
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: Right.

790
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 4: Doesn't alcohol kill germs?

791
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 3: Yeah? And we're talking a lot of alcohol in some

792
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 3: of these recipes.

793
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 4: Now, frustratingly, I have not been able to put together

794
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 4: a very clear answer on the exact relationship between alcohol

795
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 4: content and raw egg safety. Instead, I've sort of assembled

796
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 4: some different conflicting data points, but I'll share a few

797
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 4: of the results I came across. So one thing I

798
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 4: found is a study in the International Journal of Food

799
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 4: Microbiology published in nineteen ninety called survival of pathogenic microorganisms

800
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 4: in an eggnog like product containing seven percent ethanol. This

801
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,439
Speaker 4: is by notermans at all, so this is a lab test.

802
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 4: They say, let's make some boozy eggnog and directly inject

803
00:46:55,719 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 4: pathogenic microorganisms in there and see what happens. They say

804
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:05,399
Speaker 4: a liquor consisting of whole egg sacros meaning sugar twenty

805
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 4: five percent and ethanol of seven percent was artificially contaminated

806
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 4: with Salmonella teriditis, salmonilla, typhomurium, Staphylococcus aureus, three different strains

807
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 4: Basillus sirius, and Listeria, and they say, after three weeks

808
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 4: of incubation at twenty two degrees celsius, twenty two degrees

809
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 4: celsius is about seventy one degrees fahrenheit room temperature, the

810
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 4: numbers of salmonilla, Staphylococcus aureus, and of the Listeria species

811
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 4: they use decreased by more than three log base ten

812
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 4: units and if I understand correctly, I believe that's a

813
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 4: ninety nine point nine percent reduction in the number of

814
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 4: bacteria units. There they say under such conditions, however, the

815
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 4: total number of micro organisms increased three log ten units.

816
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 4: Then they say had four degrees celsius. So I think

817
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 4: this would be simulating refrigerator temperatures. The decrease of pathogenic

818
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 4: microorganisms was much slower, and a decrease of three log

819
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 4: based ten units was observed only after seven weeks of incubation.

820
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 4: So this study finds eggnog without alcohol incubated at room temperature. Yeah,

821
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 4: that's you allow populations of salmonilla and staff to explode.

822
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 4: But in this study, the presence of seven percent straight

823
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 4: ethanol significantly reduced the amount of salmonilla staff in listeria

824
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 4: over the course of three weeks at room temperature and

825
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 4: over the course of seven weeks at fridge temperature. However,

826
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 4: other microorganisms can grow.

827
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure this recipe for egnog that they used

828
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 3: is the doctor cushion catheter, right, recipe for agnog with

829
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 3: all of these added diseases.

830
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 4: M you can just imagine Christopher Lee drooling over it. Well,

831
00:48:55,280 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 4: the Stanton twins dance, but the amount of alcohol clearly matters.

832
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 4: One highly cited informal experiment. This was not published in

833
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 4: a scientific journal as far as I can tell, but

834
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 4: it was done and reported on by NPR for Science Friday.

835
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 4: It was done in the late two thousands by microbiologists

836
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 4: at the at Rockefeller University named Vince Faschetti and Raymond

837
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 4: Schuck and it was covered on Science Friday. And apparently

838
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 4: these researchers used a recipe that the staff at the

839
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 4: university would make every year, which originally traced back to

840
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 4: the great American microbiologist Rebecca Lancefield. So this is her

841
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 4: original eggnog recipe. She had worked at Rockefeller University decades earlier.

842
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 4: Apparently they're still making her eggnog years after she passed away.

843
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,720
Speaker 4: And the recipe includes raw eggs, but also cream, sugar,

844
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 4: and a lot of hard liquor. The liquors in this

845
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 4: version are bourbon and rum. NPR reported that the alcohol

846
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 4: concentration of the final drink was about twenty percent, and

847
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:03,439
Speaker 4: the way they would do it is every year they'd

848
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 4: make it before Thanksgiving and then enjoy it around Christmas time,

849
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 4: so it had an incubation period in the refrigerator of

850
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 4: about six weeks. So for this experiment, the researchers made

851
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 4: their usual knog, but they deliberately spiked it once again

852
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 4: with salmonilla. They just you can watch a video of this.

853
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 4: They're just injecting this orange juice into the eggs. It's disgusting,

854
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 4: they say. They put in the amount of salmonella you

855
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 4: would expect from including about somewhere between one and ten

856
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 4: contaminated eggs, and then they took samples at various stages

857
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 4: of preparation and incubation to see what grew over the

858
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 4: course of the next three weeks. So egg plus salmonilla

859
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 4: with no alcohol, that's just it formed a solid mat

860
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 4: of salmony. Just huge boom, millions of bacteria. Disgusting.

861
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 3: You can need your spoon and your poset for that

862
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 3: one ugh.

863
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 4: Egg plus salmonella plus alcohol with the sample taken immediately

864
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 4: after mixing give you a modest reduction, but still plenty

865
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 4: of salmonilla growth. This would still absolutely make you sick.

866
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 4: Egg plus salmonella plus alcohol, but one day after mixing,

867
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 4: still plenty of salmonilla, but less than the one taken

868
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,919
Speaker 4: right after mixing. One week later, there was noticeably less

869
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 4: bacterial growth, but they said still probably enough to make

870
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 4: you sick. But then the sample from three weeks later

871
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 4: there's nothing, no bacterial growth at all. So somewhere between

872
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:41,240
Speaker 4: one week and three weeks this batch went from biohazard

873
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 4: to presumably safe. Though I noticed that the Science Friday

874
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 4: report made a joke about like the researchers themselves are

875
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 4: joking about this. They said, you know, we could really

876
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 4: commit to our result and just drink it, but maybe not,

877
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 4: which makes sense, right, like why risk it? And that

878
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 4: kind of spirit comes through in a lot of the

879
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 4: other sources I've seen talking about whether alcohol will render

880
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 4: your eggnog safe, because it seems clear there's evidence that

881
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 4: at least in some cases, even if you got unlucky

882
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 4: enough and got a contaminated egg, given enough alcohol and

883
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 4: enough time, the nog would probably be safe. But there

884
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 4: are a lot of variables here, and so it seems

885
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 4: like a bunch of public health and food safety sources

886
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,439
Speaker 4: are still cautious. They're still kind of cagy about giving

887
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 4: the green light on this, and they default to saying

888
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 4: that if you want to be sure you're safe, you

889
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 4: should use pasteurized eggs from a carton which have been

890
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 4: rendered safe by preheating in the facility where they were packaged,

891
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,800
Speaker 4: or they also recommend cooking the eggs basically like sources

892
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 4: citing experts at the FDA or the USDA say that

893
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 4: you can't always count on alcohol to kill potential bacterial

894
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 4: content of raw eggs, and if you want to be safe,

895
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 4: the eggs should be cooked. You can do this by

896
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 4: like mixing the eggs and milk together and gently bringing

897
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,720
Speaker 4: up to one hundred and sixty degrees fahrenheit while stirring

898
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 4: to kill any possible bacterial content before you add the

899
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 4: other ingredients. So personally, I don't know exactly where we

900
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 4: are left here. I will say it looks like some

901
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 4: experiments do show that alcohol content will at least often,

902
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 4: maybe not always, but will at least often neutralize the

903
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 4: main bacteria that people are worried about, meaning salmonilla, given

904
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 4: enough alcohol and enough time. And I will say that

905
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,320
Speaker 4: I also, just speaking for myself, not giving advice to

906
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 4: other people, have personally drunk eggnog made in this way

907
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 4: with raw eggs but with lots of alcohol content, and

908
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 4: personally I felt fine about it. But it also looks

909
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 4: like some experts still have concerns that this might not

910
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 4: always work, and caution that if you want to make

911
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 4: sure you're safe, you should cook your eggs or use

912
00:53:58,480 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 4: a pasteurized product.

913
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 3: I mean this is also enough to make one rethink

914
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:04,839
Speaker 3: eating raw cookie dough and so forth.

915
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean, well, it's true, I guess of

916
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 4: anything with raw eggs in it, like, there is always

917
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 4: some small amount of risk. You know, some small proportion

918
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,879
Speaker 4: of eggs out there are going to be infected. Most

919
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 4: eggs are fine, but some are going to have salmonella

920
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 4: in them, So you're always running that risk. And I guess,

921
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 4: I guess some of the difficulty comes from not just

922
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 4: whether or not you will accept the risk, but from

923
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 4: not knowing exactly how risky it is. Like you can't

924
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 4: come up, you don't have a number, you know, to

925
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 4: say like, Okay, I have this percent chance of getting

926
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 4: salmonilla if I do this instead, you just have a

927
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 4: vague sense that I have some small chance, and I

928
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 4: don't know exactly what that chance is.

929
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 3: But in a way, that's It's the holiday season. It's

930
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 3: about it's about thinking about your chances of survival. A

931
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 3: winter festivity that is supposed to get you through the

932
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 3: darkest portion of the year and hopefully see about the

933
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 3: resurrection of the living world.

934
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 4: That's quite beautifully put. But on the other hand, I'll

935
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 4: just say, like, you know, if you're not your yeah,

936
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 4: just cook your eggs or just use the past yourized thing.

937
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 3: I mean, it's fine now. Last year unstuff to blow

938
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 3: your mind. We did an entire episode looking at the

939
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 3: major award leg lamp from a Christmas Story, the nineteen

940
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 3: eighties holiday classic film, and you know, looking at this

941
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 3: leg shaped lamp and finding predecessors to this in the

942
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 3: ancient world. In a similar way, I would like to

943
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 3: at the close of this episode on eggnog, consider the

944
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty nine holiday film Christmas Vacation, which of course

945
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 3: starred a great cast Chevy Chase, Beverly Dangelo, Randy Quaid,

946
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 3: among others. But there are at least a couple of

947
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 3: key scenes in this movie in which the Griswold family

948
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 3: drink eggnog from glass goblets made in the likeness of

949
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 3: the Wally World moose. These are you can actually buy

950
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 3: these now, this is an actual product. But in the

951
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 3: movie they are these these little glass goblets, and they

952
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:17,399
Speaker 3: have big glass moose antlers on either side, and there's

953
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 3: a big droopy moose snout on the front. You hold

954
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 3: it by the ear and you sip your eggnog that way,

955
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 3: or you gulp it, as it happens to be the

956
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 3: case in some of the scenes.

957
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 4: I imagine the moose face has to be facing out

958
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 4: or else the snout would sort of prevent you from

959
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 4: from getting it to your lips.

960
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, you'd have to hold the glass in just

961
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 3: the right way. It's a ceremonial vessel. And I started

962
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 3: looking around as thinking, I don't know, I don't know

963
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:45,399
Speaker 3: if there's going to be something in the ancient world

964
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 3: that matches up with this. But luckily, once more, eighties

965
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 3: holiday movie prop design is in line with the manufacture

966
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 3: of artifacts in the ancient world. I would like to

967
00:56:56,239 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 3: discuss the ryton. This is generally spelled r hytn and

968
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 3: it is a style of head cup that appears in

969
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 3: various forms throughout the ancient world, according to Mara Abd

970
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 3: el Maghwud al Kadi in Forms and functions of rytons

971
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,919
Speaker 3: in Ptotomaic Egypt. According to this author, they were likely

972
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 3: Persian in origin and were particularly popular during the Acaimenid

973
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 3: dynasty of five point fifty through three point thirty PCE.

974
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 3: You can look up images of the ryton and the

975
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 3: various versions of the ryton that appear in different times

976
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 3: and different cultures. One can roughly compare these two a

977
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 3: drinking horn like you know, the hollowed horn of a beast,

978
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 3: but the design and function here is a little more involved.

979
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 3: So imagine a drinking horn in which the slender part

980
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 3: of the horn, the tapering part of the horn, is

981
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 3: in the likeness of an animal's head, or in the

982
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 3: like the front half of an animal. And we don't

983
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 3: have time in this episode to really dig into the

984
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:02,439
Speaker 3: variation and the different cultural takes in this episode. But again,

985
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 3: this would have been a realistic drinking vessel. This would

986
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 3: not be something you would bust out, I would imagine

987
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 3: for your just everyday consumption. This would be for ceremonial drinking.

988
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,919
Speaker 3: And there are essentially two types of ryton. In one form,

989
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 3: you drink from the slender part of the ryton, holding

990
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 3: it above one's head or roughly you know, above one's

991
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 3: head or at least parallel with one's head by either

992
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 3: twin handles on the side, or from some other kind

993
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 3: of of handle that's a fixed to the object, or

994
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 3: even from sort of the horn itself. In other forms,

995
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 3: one drinks from the wide portion of the ryton, So

996
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 3: the whole thing is more like a traditional goblet, except

997
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 3: many of these designs would require you know, gripping by

998
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 3: the horns or by the or the antlers that are

999
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 3: on it. If there are antlers on it, and you

1000
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 3: might not be able to set it down, it might

1001
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 3: not have a bottom to it.

1002
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 4: Wow, well that that almost suggests a certain way to drink.

1003
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again this would be highly ritual, so it's

1004
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,919
Speaker 3: not about setting your drink aside and then doing other things.

1005
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 3: You're not going to do any paperwork. This is probably

1006
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 3: part of some ritual I don't know. You can easily

1007
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 3: imagine some sort of warrior's feast, etc.

1008
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 4: Right, you can't drink it while you're podcasting. It's maybe

1009
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 4: to drink from while people stand around you chanting drink Right.

1010
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 3: So there are various beautiful examples of the ryton, but

1011
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 3: the one that really brought to my mind the Wally

1012
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 3: World mug is the Stag's Head ryton, dating to four

1013
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 3: hundred BCE. This is a silver artifact that actually made

1014
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 3: headlines just last year due to its three point five

1015
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 3: million dollar appraisal value and its presence among stolen antiquities

1016
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 3: that were found in the possession of billionaire Michael Steinhardt.

1017
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 3: You can look up articles on that again from just

1018
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 3: last year. The item was apparently eluded from a museum

1019
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 3: in Turkey originally, but I'm unsure exactly actly when the

1020
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 3: looting occurred, other than sometime during the twentieth century during

1021
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 3: a time of unrest, which that only narrows it down

1022
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 3: so much concerning the twentieth century, though it does seem

1023
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 3: to be of ancient Greek manufacturer somewhere in the region

1024
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 3: of the Black Sea, probably from the fifth century BCE.

1025
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 3: And with this one, you'd apparently drink from the stag's

1026
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 3: lower lip while holding it aloft, though not by the antlers,

1027
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 3: as is visible in many photos of this particular artifact.

1028
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:34,919
Speaker 3: There's this curved handle behind the neck. Oh, I see it. Yeah,

1029
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 3: So the question remains, is the Wally World mug a

1030
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 3: ryton No, it's not. No, it's not. Yes, it's first

1031
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 3: of all, it's not horn shaped. It also doesn't you

1032
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 3: don't drink from the moose's lips though that alone wouldn't

1033
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 3: disqualify it from being a ryton. As we previously noted, though,

1034
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 3: I've included a picture for you, Joe, of a ryton

1035
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 3: that would involve you drinking from the wide portion as

1036
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 3: opposed to the beast lips you can sort of see.

1037
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 3: So this one would be very much a situation where

1038
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 3: you have this kind of like I don't know, bronze

1039
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 3: or golden chalice, and you wouldn't be able to set

1040
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,479
Speaker 3: it down because instead of having a flat surface, flat

1041
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 3: bottom on the bottom of your goblet, there is like

1042
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 3: the head of a ram down there. Yeah, so you'd

1043
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 3: have to lay it on its side, I guess, in

1044
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 3: which case you would either spill what you were drinking

1045
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 3: or you would have to have consumed it all.

1046
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 4: Once again, the medium is the message here. This is

1047
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 4: technology that shows that by necessity, shows you a way

1048
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 4: to use it.

1049
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. However, I will say the Wally World mug is

1050
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 3: the likeness of a moose head. It is the likeness

1051
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 3: of an animal's head. It also is a ceremonial drinking vessel. Clearly,

1052
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 3: the Grizwolds are not drinking out of these year round.

1053
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 3: They're busting them out for the holidays, and just as

1054
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 3: some of these artifacts, such as the stag, were decorated

1055
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 3: with warrior images and images of battle, and we can

1056
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 3: imagine the ceremonies they involve, probably a ligne with some

1057
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,479
Speaker 3: sort of warrior ethos. We do see Clark Griswold drinking

1058
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 3: copious amounts of nog while working cousin Eddie up for violence,

1059
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 3: though curiously I had to go back. I was imagining this,

1060
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 3: remembering this scene incorrectly, the scene where Clark Griswold is

1061
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 3: throwing back a whole bunch of eggnog and talking about

1062
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 3: how he wishes somebody would kidnap his boss. He's curiously

1063
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 3: not drinking from one of the moose goblets in this scene.

1064
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 3: Oh so, I don't know. I don't know what the

1065
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 3: reason for that is. You'd think you'd want him drinking

1066
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,479
Speaker 3: out of the moose. Maybe it's just because it's harder

1067
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 3: to hold. I don't know.

1068
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 4: Maybe it's to show in a subtle way that Clark

1069
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 4: is actually coldly calculating in the scene and he's not

1070
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 4: as drunk as it would suggest.

1071
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a whole topic for another time. Trying to

1072
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 3: figure out Clark Griswold. How do we feel about Clark Griswold,

1073
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 3: about his motivations and his desires in Christmas Vacation.

1074
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 4: Clark is neutral, evils cousin Randy Quaid. I'd say chaotic neutral.

1075
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. All right, So again, not really

1076
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 3: a Ryton in Christmas Vacation, But I think we might

1077
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 3: well imagine a scene from an alternate dimension in which

1078
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 3: there's a scene in Christmas Vacation in which Clark Griswold

1079
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 3: holds aloft the mighty Wally the moose Ryton, this big

1080
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 3: glass moose head or perhaps it's silver in this scenario,

1081
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 3: a big silver moose head. Perhaps you grip it by

1082
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 3: the antlers, and he's allowing cousin Eddie to then drink

1083
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 3: nourishing nod from the lips of the moose before he

1084
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 3: sends him out into glorious battle against the enemies of Christmas. Bravo.

1085
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 3: All right, that's all I have.

1086
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 4: God bless us everyone.

1087
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,360
Speaker 3: Yes, I will say also, I fortunately finished my egg

1088
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 3: nog before we got to the draining of abscesses, so

1089
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 3: hopefully that calibrates the podcast episode for anyone out there

1090
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 3: who's like, oh, well, Rob's having an eggnog. I should

1091
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 3: have an eggnog for this listening experience. I hope that

1092
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 3: you too, were finished before the abscesses were drained.

1093
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 4: Why are you saying that, Rob?

1094
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 3: Are you saying that?

1095
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 4: Otherwise it would suggest the mental image that your glass

1096
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 4: of creamy mixture is what's out coming out of the abscess.

1097
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 3: Yes, that it is a goblet of holiday puss, which

1098
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 3: you might be drinking from the glass ahead of a moose,

1099
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 3: which doesn't help, or from the lips of a moose.

1100
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 1: Right on.

1101
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 4: I guess Merry Christmas everybody.

1102
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 3: All right, Yeah, we're going to go and close it

1103
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 3: out here, but we'd love to hear from everyone out

1104
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:40,919
Speaker 3: there if you have. I mean a lot of people

1105
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 3: out there are going to have some sort of holiday

1106
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 3: tradition involving some manner of eggnog. We didn't really have

1107
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 3: time to get into all the variations, but I know

1108
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 3: there are some. I think I've had, like a Puerto

1109
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,919
Speaker 3: Rican variation of eggnog before that was quite delightful. There's

1110
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 3: so many different regional variations. Familytions, Please write in. We'd

1111
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 3: love to hear your take on all of this. In

1112
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 3: the meantime, we'll remind you that Stuff to Blow Your

1113
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 3: Mind is a science podcast with our core episodes on

1114
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 3: Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Wednesdays we do a short form

1115
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 3: artifact or monster fact. On Mondays we do a listener

1116
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 3: mail episode, and on Fridays we set aside most serious

1117
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 3: concerns and just talk about a weird film on Weird

1118
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 3: House Cinema.

1119
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 4: Huge thanks to our audio producer, Max Williams. If you

1120
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 4: would like to get in touch with us with feedback

1121
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 4: on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic

1122
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 4: for the future, or just to say hello, you can

1123
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 4: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind

1124
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 4: dot com.

1125
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1126
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1127
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.