1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and this is Emily, and you're 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: listening the stuff mom never told you. And today I 3 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: want to give a trigger warning right off the bat 4 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: because today's episode deals with issues of violence against women 5 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: and rape and violence against children. So that's something that 6 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: is tough for you to listen to. Just know that's 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: what we're getting into today. Today we're talking about the 8 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: re emergence of the heartbreaking and tragic story of Cintoya Brown. 9 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: Cintoya is someone maybe you've heard her story, if you've 10 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: seen celebrities like Rihanna and Kim Kardashian West and Lebron 11 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: James and Snoop Dogg tweet about her post about her 12 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: on social media. Um, basically, her story is re emerging 13 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: right now in our national narrative about violence and sexual 14 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: crimes against women and young people and how we deal 15 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: with those crimes. Yeah, this case has really re emerged 16 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: as one of those tragic forms of injustice that slipped 17 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: through the cracks when our laws were not what they 18 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: should be. And for those who don't know the details 19 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: of her case, let's start right there. So back in 20 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: two thousand four, Centuria was a sixteen year old runaway 21 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: who after getting mixed up in a relationship with a 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: man named cutthroat, friendly sounding dude who ended up essentially 23 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: pimping her out for sex as a sixteen year old 24 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: girl sort of mixed up in all of this, She 25 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: was hired for sex by a forty three year old 26 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: real estate agent named Johnny Mitchell Allen, and he picked 27 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: her up at a sonic and took her back to 28 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: his house, where things got even more scary quite frankly, right, 29 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: So something to know about her situation is that even 30 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: though in these typical situations for her, she was taking 31 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: men back to a hotel where she was living out 32 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: of with this guy Cutthroat, but when she met John Allen, 33 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: he actually suggested they go back to his place because 34 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: there was no one there and they could be alone. 35 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: So it does seem right off the bat, this seems 36 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,399 Speaker 1: to be a situation that was a little bit scarier 37 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: than the already scary situation she was in, So they 38 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: go back to his house. Once there, he starts showing 39 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: her his collection of guns, telling her that he was 40 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: formerly a sharpshooter in the army, that he has a 41 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: gun collection, that he's a really big deal. Um. And 42 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: she starts to feel really really scared. Well, I just 43 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: want you to put yourself in her shoes for a second. 44 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,399 Speaker 1: You're sixteen years old, you've run away from home, you're 45 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:42,119 Speaker 1: checked up for whatever reason, probably in a desperate situation 46 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: with a guy named Cutthroat who's selling your body. And 47 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: now this man brings you to his home, which is 48 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: not the plan, and you don't feel like you have 49 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: any power to say no, and now he's showing you 50 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: around his gun collection. I mean, I would be terrified. 51 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: It's terrifying. And on top of that, she had been 52 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: sort of coerced into using a lot of drugs by 53 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: this guy Cutthroat, and so it's difficult for me to 54 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: say that she was making rational choices considering she was 55 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: in such a scary situation and she was so young. 56 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: So basically what ended up happening was they were in 57 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: bed together at some point. She apparently was trying to 58 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: resist whatever he was doing with her. They were laying 59 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: in bed and he rolled over onto his side and 60 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: she thinks to herself, I don't know if he's getting 61 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: a gun. I don't know what's gobat to happen, And 62 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: Cutthroat had given her a gun to pick with her, 63 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: and so she shot him. Yeah, she shot and killed him, 64 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: and she said, in her defense, she really thought that 65 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: she was an imminent danger. She thought he was reaching 66 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: for a gun or that he was about to rape her. 67 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: She didn't know what else to do, so she shot 68 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: and killed him. Uh. And the prosecution claimed that she 69 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: killed Alan as a part of a robbery because what 70 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: she ended up doing and was stealing his wallet and 71 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: a few firearms on her way out the door. But 72 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: her advocates actually point out that listen, if you are 73 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: shacked up with this guy Cutthroat, who she says it 74 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: beats her, rapes her, makes her have sex against her 75 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: will with his friends, you know, if you're shacked up 76 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: with someone like that who forces you to go out 77 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,239 Speaker 1: and do this kind of thing with men for money 78 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: and you come back empty handed, that you could really 79 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: be putting yourself at risk. And so some of her 80 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: advocates say, no, it wasn't actually a robbery. As a 81 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: sixteen year old, you know, vulnerable young person, she felt 82 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: she had to take his money and his guns and 83 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: his valuables to give something to this guy Cutthroat so 84 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: that she wouldn't get beat or killed or worse. Yeah, yeah, 85 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: I mean it didn't help her case clearly, because despite 86 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: her age, she was deemed a child prostitute, charged as 87 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: an adult, and she won't be eligible for parole until 88 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: sometime after her sixty nine birthday. It's not a life sentence, 89 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: but when you go in at sixt it's essentially a 90 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: life sentence. Here's her story in her own words, from 91 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: the hearing that would lead to her being tried as 92 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: an adult. He didn't want to go to the hotel. 93 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: He said that he wanted to go to his house 94 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: because there was no one there, no time. He was 95 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: just finished telling me about his accomplishments and saying how 96 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: that he used to be in the army and that 97 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: he was a sharpshooter in the army. And then he 98 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: had told me how a lot of women want him 99 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: for his money and that he wanted someone to make 100 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: love with him with desire. Okay, did you see any 101 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: guns in the house? Yes, I've seen two shotguns downstairs, 102 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: and he showed me a chrome gun with a black candle. 103 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: Where were you when he shows you that? Obvious? Said, 104 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: at the table eating my food. He tended to be 105 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: a nervous person. Yeah, was there anything that made you 106 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: especially nervous that night? Um? Just how he was acting, 107 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: just how he talked. It's like the way he talked, 108 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: how he was just so important stuff. And then Knee, 109 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: I'm thinking myself, who am I? Who am I? To him? 110 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: It's like Danny talks about again and stuff. If he 111 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: does something to me, I'm sitting here thinking what can 112 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: I do? I'm in his house and I don't know 113 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: where I'm at my mom, and then they don't know 114 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: where I'm at. Something that really sticks out at me 115 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: at that testimony is that she sounds like a kid. 116 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: She sounds like a child, Yeah, she. I don't know 117 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: how someone could listen to that testimony and think, this 118 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: is the testimony of someone who is making choices as 119 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: an adult, making reasonable choices for themselves as an adult, 120 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: should be held accountable for her choices, like she was 121 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: choosing prostitution, Like any sixteen year old can be a 122 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: child prostitute. The whole concept is backwards, and to not 123 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: consider the coercive factors in her life at that time 124 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: and to choose to try her as an adult just 125 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: seems like such an obvious injustice. I don't know how 126 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: someone could look at a sixteen year old runaway who 127 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: is living with a grown man who is raping her, 128 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: making her have with his friends against her will, forcing 129 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: her to do drugs, someone who had a very traumatic 130 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: life from a very early age. I don't know how 131 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: we can expect some, really any teenager whose brain is 132 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: not fully developed to be making adult choices. But it'sespecially 133 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: one who is as vulnerable as she was. I mean, 134 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: I get it, like teenagers writ large should be held 135 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: responsible for their actions. I get that, but this does 136 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: not seem like a teenager who's acting with free will, 137 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: and that it just pains me that that wasn't taken 138 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: into consideration, that someone could listen to that kind of 139 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: testimony and say, yep, let's try her as an adult. Well, 140 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: that's especially troubling when you look at her childhood. So 141 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: she's a runaway. She had been crashing with friends in 142 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: Nashville for about a year toward the middle or the 143 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: end of July of two fours when she met her 144 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: twenty four year old I mean, I don't even want 145 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: to call him boyfriends, but appropriate Yeah, that's not an 146 00:07:55,240 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: appropriate term. The cutthroat nice guy udstounding dude. He started 147 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: living together, staying at different motels and snorting cocaine every day. 148 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: He abused her physically and sexually. She said that once 149 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: he even choked her until she passed out, and other 150 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: times he even pulled a gun on her. She said quote, 151 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: he would explain to me that some people were born horrors, 152 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: and that I was one, and I was a slut, 153 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: and nobody'd want me but him, and the best thing 154 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: I could do was just learned to be a good whore. 155 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: According to her testimony, he forced her into prostitution so 156 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: they would have money to live off of, so he's 157 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: basically capitalizing on her body. And during Centuria's trial, the 158 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: forensic psychiatrist Richard Adler, who was called to testify, also 159 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: said that some of Brown's erratic behavior on her own 160 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: her own behavior could be explained by her birth mother's 161 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: admitted abuse of alcohol while she was pregnant with Brown. 162 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: So they're trying to basically piece together, Okay, why did 163 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: this kid run away in the first place, and what's 164 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: going on here to try to explain some of the 165 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 1: rationale or some of the motive behind how she ended 166 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: up in this situation. To further show that this is 167 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: a very desperate young person who's in a very desperate situation. 168 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: They diagnosed Brown as suffering from alcohol related neurodevelopmental disorder, 169 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: a type of fetal alcohol syndrome that he characterized as 170 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: quote severe mental disease and defect. And this is predating 171 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 1: force prostitution. So, if you want to talk about trauma, 172 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: this is a young person who was born into a 173 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: lot of trauma, who lived with a lot of trauma, 174 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: and by the age of sixteen, is living with a 175 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 1: pimp name Cutthroat, who beats her and chokes or and 176 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: pulls guns on her and forces her to prostitute her 177 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: body because apparently he's convincing her she's a quote born whore. 178 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: And yet this is someone who was, in the eyes 179 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: of our criminal justice system supposedly making choices as an adult, 180 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: the same way that a grown woman who is not 181 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: an incredibly vulnerable situation as a youth when be making choices, 182 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: our criminal justice system said, this is someone who understood 183 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: her actions and knew what she was doing and making choices, 184 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: and they're holding her accountable as if she were an 185 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: adult who was not an incredibly vulnerable situation. For fifty 186 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: years of her life now, right, That's like, that's what 187 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: our justice system has deemed appropriate. And so it's no 188 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: wonder that in this moment that we find ourselves in 189 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: in which injustice and a lack of accountability in our 190 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: justice system for women and girls who are vulnerable and 191 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: not fully empowered as individuals or adults are as full 192 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: human beings, there's a reckoning that I think is happening 193 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: right now. I think that's part of the reason why 194 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian West and all these celebrities are drawing attention 195 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: to Centoria's case in this moment of me Too. Is 196 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: it the same thing? No? Is it the same issue, 197 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: Not entirely, But this idea that the way our world 198 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: works fundamentally does not treat women and girls fairly is 199 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: sort of that common thread that that strings these two 200 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,079 Speaker 1: things together. And I would hope that a culture or 201 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: a moment like me Too does also have room for 202 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: stories like hers. Me Too has been instrumental in showing 203 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: the way that starlets and actresses and models and folks 204 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: like that have been preyed upon by powerful men. But 205 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: this movement, in my mind, can only go so far 206 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: if it doesn't also take into account people who aren't 207 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: a list Starlett's, people who aren't famous models, If it 208 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 1: leaves out youth who have been trafficed, if it leaves 209 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: out domestic workers, if it leaves out blow income women, 210 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: if it doesn't tell all of those stories and does 211 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: not try to make this moment about justice for all 212 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: those different kinds of people, for me, it would fall short. 213 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: And so I'm hoping that this is really a moment 214 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: for all different kinds of people who have been preyed upon, 215 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: whether they're Uma Thurman or whether they're a sixteen year 216 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: old runaway. I think this moment needs to be about 217 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: reassessing how as a culture we have talked about and 218 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: dealt with all of those situations. Exactly, it's a moment 219 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: of reckoning, I think, for us to really hold our 220 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: justice system up against our values as a country and 221 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: where we're falling short and make some changes. Exactly. After 222 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: a quick break, we'll talk more about what Cintoya's story 223 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: has to say about our criminal justice system, and we're 224 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: back and let's break down one of the reasons why 225 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: this case is really so troubling. So, if you go 226 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: back to the two thousand four testimony. They talk about 227 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: Cintoya like she is a quote unquote prostitute, a prostitute 228 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: who killed a john. And as we know now, there's 229 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: really no such thing as a child prostitute, Like that 230 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: doesn't exist if you are a child, if you're not 231 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: an adult, and you are being made to have sex 232 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 1: with adults, you are being trafficked. And in two thousand four, 233 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: our criminal justice system did not allow for that nuance 234 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: to be understood. Young people who got caught up in 235 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: that system were treated as criminals despite the fact that 236 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: they would more accurately be described as victims. Yes, I 237 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: think it reminds me of statutory rape laws to write 238 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: those laws around the books for a reason, because we 239 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: acknowledge that consent is not possible when you are a 240 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: child who's having sex with an adult. And that's even 241 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: without the money factor. So, if you're thinking about centuria 242 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 1: situation in particular, do you really think that she's entering 243 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: into the marketplace of capitalism selling her body for profit? No, 244 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: she's not even profiting off of it, right, Like that's 245 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: not going back to her. And even if that money 246 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: was going into her pocket, she is not an adult 247 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: who's entering that system or entering that marketplace freely. Right, 248 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: She's not making a free choice in this situation. She's 249 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: being coerced, she's being abused, she's being raped in that 250 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: process and trafficked exactly. Here's how Sintoia described her situation 251 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: in a two thousand eleven PBS documentary called Me Facing Life. 252 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: He said that I was and then I was starting 253 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: to become a slouch, that I needed to get out 254 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: and get on my gun and get some money. What's 255 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: this guy? Cut? What's his room name? Gary? And my glad? So? 256 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: How long were you living with him? Three weeks? And then? 257 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: So what was the hard tails? I'm one time? The 258 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: first time he did some enemies when he told me 259 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: and I passed out because he said I thought he 260 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: was a joke. Mm hmm. What else did he do 261 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: to him? You talk to day be pulled me by 262 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: my hair, joey stuff. Okay, tell me a step and 263 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: start like, yeah, I did you ever have sex with 264 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: the guys when I cut? But God not to me, 265 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: I did? Did he did he have sex with your child? Said? 266 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: Sometimes I want to say and everything? So, how how 267 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: came you stayed with him? Knows? He wasn't let me 268 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: go away, sell me. And I don't know if you 269 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: could hear everything she was saying in there, but she 270 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: said that he was dragging her by her hair, that 271 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: he was having sex with her against her will, that 272 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: he was putting a gun to her head, forcing her 273 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: to have sex with his friends. I mean, the line 274 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: of questioning here even infuriates me because the follow up 275 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: to those questions and answer, would you stay? Why did 276 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: you choose to stay with him? As though free will 277 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: was even on the table. And that's what I find 278 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: so powerful about her response to that question is you're 279 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: not listening. He used me for money, And so anyone 280 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: who would think that this sixteen year old runaway is 281 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: making a choice to get involved in the sex for 282 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: money trade willingly they're not listening the same way he 283 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: wasn't listening. They're not listening. And I think even for 284 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: someone so young, to me, I was like, yeah, he's 285 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: not listening. He doesn't understand. He thinks this is like 286 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: her shacking up with some guy and making like having 287 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: a good time or something. No, he's not listening to 288 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: how dire and how scary and really how powerless she 289 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: was in this situation exactly, And so she tries to 290 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: respond to make him listen by saying, dude, he was 291 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: going to kill me. He made it very clear to 292 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: me when he choked me out that he was not 293 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: afraid to kill me, that he knew where my mother lived. 294 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: This is the kind of psychological torture that sociopaths who 295 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: kidnapped children do as well. Like she is a child, 296 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: she was being manipulated, coerced, and was living in fear, 297 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: and was being used for money that didn't go back 298 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: to her. I just cannot believe that any part of 299 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: our justice system, and especially as recently as two thousand four, 300 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: would think she's entering this as a child prostitute and 301 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: with free will, and we should charge her as an 302 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: adulge in furiating exactly. And unfortunately, her situation isn't even 303 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: as rare as we might like to think. According to 304 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: the Bureau of Justice statistics, each year, more than a 305 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: thousand children are arrested for quote prostitution in the US. Yeah, 306 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: and those advocates are saying that in many of those 307 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: cases it's the children who are the victims, not the 308 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: perpetrators of crime. And so there are these new safe 309 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: harbor laws that protect trafficked miners from criminal charges that 310 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: really should have been part of what could have saved 311 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: Centoia but didn't. When you look at some of the 312 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: crimes that these young people who have already gone through 313 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: so much are getting impunity for. Some of them are 314 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: things like truancy and underage drinking, crimes that seem so 315 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: wildly out of step with the lives that they're living. 316 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: Are you going to be someone who is a runaway 317 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: at fourteen, fifteen sixteen getting involved in being sex trafficked, 318 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: becoming a victim in that way, and then you're afraid 319 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: to talk to law enforcement because you don't want to 320 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 1: get busted for underage drinking? Like what? Like? What is that? Right? 321 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: It just seems like a false equivalency. And that's why 322 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: those safe harbor laws are on the books now to 323 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: make it safe for victims of sex traffick in our country, 324 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: which by the way, there are way more than we 325 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: like to think there are, to come forward and get 326 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: the help that they need. What's interesting is that we 327 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: didn't even really talk about victims of sex trafficking coming 328 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: from the United States before around two thousand five, Like 329 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: we had not even comprehended that people in the United 330 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: States could be victims of sex trafficking until then, which 331 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: seems wild to me. Well, it just goes to show 332 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: you how so often crimes against women and girls are 333 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: not considered public information or in the public domain, kind 334 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: of like how domestic violence was a private matter until 335 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: relatively historically recently exactly. And now we even have a 336 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: language to sort of describe the system that gets young 337 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: people involved in trafficking and sex abuse and sex crimes 338 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: and leads them to prison. Advocates are calling it the 339 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: sexual abuse to prison pipeline. And then really is an 340 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: idea that takes into account that vulnerable young people who 341 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: are being trafficked and sexually abused and going through all 342 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: of these traumas, oftentimes they're ending up in the criminal 343 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 1: justice system exactly. And here's what he has me and Vafa, 344 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: the executive director of Rights for Girls, has to say 345 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 1: about the sexual abuse to prison pipeline. So, what we 346 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: actually found in the report was that in a number 347 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: of states that had available data looking at girls in 348 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: the system, the overwhelming majority of girls behind bars had 349 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: suffered instances of sexual and physical violence. In some states 350 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: like South Carolina was one percent of girls. In places 351 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: like Oregon it was upwards of So we looked at 352 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: those high rates of trauma together with the most common 353 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: offenses that girls were being arrested for. It really made 354 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 1: clear that it was that victimization that was driving the abuse. 355 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: So sometimes that looks like a young girl who's running 356 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: away from an abuse of home or foster care situation, 357 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: who is then arrested for the offensive running away. And 358 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: sometimes that looks like a girl who is engaging in substance, 359 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: abused to cope with the years of trauma. And in 360 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: the most extreme cases, it looks like what happened to 361 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: Brescia meadows what happened to Cintoria Brown in the case 362 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: that they were actually forced to take more extreme measures 363 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: to protect themselves as a result of society essentially failing them. 364 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: And I think that it's not a coincidence that the 365 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: whole issue with Santorio Brown has kind of made a 366 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: resurgence during the wake of these me too disclosures, because 367 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: I think it shows what me too looks like for 368 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: some of our most vulnerable girls. I almost feel like 369 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: one of the questions that I one of the most 370 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: offensive questions that I'd come away from that quote with Frankly, 371 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: is I mean, here's the thing. I think she's spot on. 372 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: And yet I think most people in prison who are 373 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: the perpetrators of violent crimes are victims themselves in some way. 374 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: So we know that that doesn't provide a pass right. 375 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that murdering somebody, even if it is 376 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: in self defense, gets you off the hook if you've 377 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: been traumatized in your past. So I just wonder, how 378 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: do we reconcile the obvious incredibly high rates of sexual 379 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: abuse that lead many of these women and girls into 380 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: the justice system to begin with, with the very real 381 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: need for their need to be crimes that yield punishments. 382 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: You know, that's a great question, and I think you 383 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: can actually see an answer to that in Centoia's defense. Basically, 384 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: they aren't saying that that she should be let out, 385 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: you know, without serving any time. What they're advocating for 386 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: is actually that as a young person who committed a 387 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: violent crime as a miner, she should not be sentenced 388 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: to life in prison without a chance to get parole. 389 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: And so basically her team is arguing that what would 390 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: make more sense is that her case could be reviewed 391 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: in fifteen to twenty years, not fifty years, which is 392 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: a situation now. And I mean at the outset, she 393 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: should have been tried as a child, exactly. I completely agree. 394 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: I don't understand how someone could hear her testimony and 395 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: not think this is a child. So I don't think 396 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: that she should have been charged as an adult in 397 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: the first place, despite the violent nature of her crime, exactly. 398 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 1: And I think that's why today you see a lot 399 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: more advocates bringing scrutiny to this idea that you should 400 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: charge any kind of a young person like Centuria as 401 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: an adult. In fact, Brown's life sentence and the practice 402 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: of sentencing young people to a lifetime behind bars, even 403 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: for the most heinous of crimes, has drawn increased pushback 404 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: and flack, not only in Tennessee, but really nationwide, as 405 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: a wave of scientific research has shown adolescens lag behind 406 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: adults in the development of the parts of their brain 407 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: that regulate aggression, abstract thinking, long term planning, and really, 408 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: even if there wasn't a history of sexual abuse and trauma, 409 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: even if there wasn't all of the components of fear 410 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: and coercion and desperation that weighed in on Centoia's case 411 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: that a teenager shouldn't be charged as an adult, that 412 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: a teenager is not in the same position of power 413 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: and free will that an adult who's perpetrating a violent crime, 414 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: plain and simple, exactly. And furthermore, in the Supreme Court 415 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: ruled mandatory life without parole sentences for juveniles violate the 416 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: Eighth Amendment prohibiting against cruel and unusual punishment. So basically, 417 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: this reform won't actually help Brown's case much at all 418 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: because in the state where she committed her crime, Tennessee, 419 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: she actually does get a parole review period after fifty 420 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: one years, But advocates say that that's essentially a de 421 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: facto life sentence, And so even though it's now unconstitutional 422 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: juveile to face life without parole for a crime committed 423 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: when they were under the age of eighteen, that doesn't 424 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: actually help her because she actually does get a parole review. 425 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 1: It just is a really really long time away. Oh 426 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: my god, fifty one years before a single parole review. Really, 427 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: and I mean, how is that that much different than 428 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: a life sentence? I mean, advocates, actually, you say, it's 429 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: basically a life right. And in Tennessee, there are already 430 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: a hundred and eighty three people serving actual life sentences 431 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 1: for crimes they committed when they were teens, and that 432 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: already includes a mandatory review after fifty one years, just 433 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: like Cintoya's, So advocates there call it a virtual life 434 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: sentence because that's really what even this teenager is, and 435 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: a hundred and eighty three teenagers are facing in the 436 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: state of Tennessee. So it sounds like Brown's team, like 437 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, Cintoya's team of attorneys is hoping to 438 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,719 Speaker 1: get you know, not her off the books, not her 439 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: crime to be without any form of punishment, but to 440 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: push for a parole review in fifteen to twenty years 441 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: instead of waiting till she's basically sixty nine years old, 442 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: And that would have her being in prison until she's 443 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: thirty one or thirty six rather than sixty nine. And 444 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: for a teenager who went in when she was sixteen, 445 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: that's really something I don't think that someone should spend 446 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: they're basically their entire life behind bars because of a 447 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: choice they made when they were a vulnerable sixteen year old. Yeah, 448 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: and a choice in air quotes, yeah, not I mean 449 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: it's a co worsive situation all around. So I don't know. 450 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: I think there's this really troubling line of questioning that 451 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: came out of some of the research we were doing, 452 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: which it boils down to this concept of crime and 453 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: punishment or crime and rehabilitation. In other words, some people 454 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: would argue Bridget that Cintoya's life is better off in 455 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: prison since she's been there, she's gotten her associates degree, 456 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: she's in a comparatively safe environment, which I think is 457 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: pretty offensive in terms of that that line of questioning anyway, 458 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: to say, oh, she's better off in prison than having 459 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: her life to herself and having any free will for 460 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: thirty to fifty one years. What what do you think 461 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: about that concept that came out of the research where 462 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: there were journalists asking her defense attorneys, isn't it better 463 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: off that she's in prison as opposed to being pimped out? 464 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: As someone who has worked on criminal justice and juvenile 465 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: justice reform issues, I think anybody who thinks that doesn't 466 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: know anything about what it's like for a young person 467 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: to be involved in the criminal justice system in this way. 468 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: Girls who are in detention, it's not a safe situation. 469 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: It's not a dignified situation. It's not a situation that 470 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: you would think, oh, they're in a safe space. A 471 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: lot of times they're being abused within the system. It's 472 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: not a place that I would describe as safe. And 473 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 1: so even though she certainly wasn't living a safe life 474 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: out on the streets with cutthroat, I would never say 475 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: that she's better off behind bars, even if she's made 476 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: life developments there. Yeah, And it just forces us to 477 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: consider as a country, how we think about prison right. 478 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: The United States is notorious for locking up more of 479 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: our citizens and countries almost anywhere else, which we mentioned 480 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: on the episode around pregnant prison. And we have to 481 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: consider that we're paying twenty seven dollars per year per 482 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: inmate in Tennessee. That's our taxpayer dollars. So what's the 483 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: return on that investment. First of all, we're punishing this 484 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: child who is trafficked, not a child prostitute, as an adult, 485 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: throwing her behind bars for fifty one years before she 486 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: has the chance to even prove herself rehabilitated. And that's 487 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: supposed to be a good use of our justice system 488 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: to to rehabilitate criminal activity. It just it boggles my 489 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: mind a little bit. And at the same time, I 490 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: know that the victim's advocates, the folks who are advocating 491 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: on behalf of that John Really, who was you know, 492 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: was shot and killed in this crime, probably feel a 493 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 1: little differently about it. Absolutely, they completely do so. Two 494 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: victims advocates groups have been very clear that they don't 495 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: agree that Brown's case needs to be reassessed or that 496 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: she should get any kind of leniency for her age 497 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,959 Speaker 1: when she committed her crime. The National Organization of Victims 498 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: of Juvenile Murder has criticized advocates for limitating life sentences 499 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: for juvenile fenders as quote lavishing all their resources on 500 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: convicted murderers. They go on to say, we are not 501 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: denying the premise that teenage perpetrators are impacted by toxic 502 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: stress and events in their life, but we believe juveniles 503 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: have to be held accountable for their actions. And Nashville 504 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: based victims rights groups have the same thing. The group 505 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 1: is called You Have the Power, and their executive director 506 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: said the results are the same whether the person committing 507 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: the crime is sixteen or sixty. And I gotta say 508 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: I understand where they're coming from. In a kind of way, 509 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: because nobody wants to be the victim of a violent crime. 510 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: But I don't agree that it's the same thing whether 511 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: the perpetrator was a full grown adult or a child. 512 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. It belies this weird discomfort around how 513 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: our society considers youth responsible or not responsible for their actions. So, 514 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: you know, teenager criminals should be held responsible for their actions. 515 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: But if we believe that prison is a form of rehabilitation, 516 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: and we believe that children need different kinds of rehabilitation, 517 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: and maybe that they have more life afterwards, more life 518 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: after crime, to actually you know, redeem themselves, to join 519 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: society as a fully rehabilitated human being with their full 520 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: rights reinstated, then we have to treat them differently. We 521 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: have to consider the special circumstances that meet miners. And 522 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: we know that this is happening in other crimes. We 523 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: know that other criminals who are miners are treated differently. Well, 524 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: that's exactly what I was gonna say. I think my 525 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: question is always who gets treated like a kid and 526 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,239 Speaker 1: who does it who? If we're talking about people who 527 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: are the same age, what kind of people are criminalized 528 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: as adults? What kind of person does the justice system say, 529 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: you understood, you're old enough to know what you did 530 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: was wrong, and we're gonna treat you like an adult. 531 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: And who gets called just a kid or you know, 532 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: a good guy gone wrong? Wait, let me guess white dudes, 533 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: exactly it is White guys. Look at cases like brocktur Or, 534 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: who was actually convicted of three counts of felony sexual 535 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: assault and sort of just ninety two days in jail, 536 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: and if now actually this week trying to appeal his conviction. 537 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: He got a slap on the wrist, and all of 538 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: his advocates said, he's just a kid, He's just a student. 539 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: He made a bad choice. His parents talked about him 540 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: like he was just a child, and he got a 541 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: very lenient sentence. And you might recall, or maybe you 542 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: don't have the details of his crime. He was caught 543 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: raping an unconscious young woman behind a dumpster on campus, right, 544 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: and two men actually came to the rescue in this 545 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: stay in this case and stopped him and held him 546 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: until he was arrested. But this guy has the hubrists 547 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: and the entitlement and the audacity to push back on 548 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: ninety two days. Come on, it's really mind boggling. And 549 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: look at cases like tim or Rice, who was a 550 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: twelve year old with a BB gun who was shot 551 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: and killed, and people saw him and thought that's a 552 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: grown man, and he's a kid. He was the black kid. 553 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: And I think when we think about who we extend 554 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: the ability to be just kids and who we sentenced 555 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 1: as adults, we need to be thinking about who gets 556 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: left out of that, and oftentimes it's it's youth of color. Yes. Absolutely. 557 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: The Georgetown Law Center on Poverty and Equality just put 558 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: out of study earlier this year Girlhood interrupted the Erasure 559 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: of Black girls childhood, and what they found is that 560 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: black boys as early as ten years old are more 561 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: likely than white boys to be misperceived as older, to 562 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: be viewed as guilty of suspected crimes, and to face 563 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: police violence if accused of a crime. When you lay 564 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,959 Speaker 1: over gender on top of race here, the study found 565 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: that black girls as early as the age of five 566 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: are viewed as less innocent than their white counterparts, basically blind. 567 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: This intersection of unconscious bias race and gender that leaves 568 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: girls like Centoia more likely to be seen as somehow 569 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: responsible for their crime or somehow guilty and less innocent 570 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: just for being who she is. Absolutely, and it's really 571 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: troubling and heartbreaking and sad, and I can't help but 572 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: see the way that these things have played out in 573 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: her sentencing and in her case. We're gonna talk a 574 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,239 Speaker 1: little bit more about where the case is at now 575 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: and what can be done about it after this quick 576 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: break and we're back. You were just talking about the 577 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: heartbreaking story of Setoya Brown, And here's where Setoya is now. 578 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: She's still behind bars, but apparently she is basically a 579 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: model inmate while in prison. She earned her associates degree 580 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: from Lipscomb University, which is an in jail program. She 581 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: got that degree in she's also working toward her master's degree. 582 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: All of the various folks that would have been interviewed 583 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: in her case and for this documentary on PBS all 584 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: agree she's a model inmate who works as a mentor 585 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: for other young people in the criminal justice system. And 586 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: she talks on and on about how her main concern 587 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: is that she doesn't want other young women to be 588 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: traffic the way that she was and to fall into 589 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: the criminal justice system the way she has. Because all 590 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: of the legal updates that have been made in terms 591 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: of the rules and regulations. The safe harbor laws that 592 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: now acknowledge even in the state of Tennessee, that children 593 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: cannot be prostitutes don't apply to her. So while the 594 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: laws on the books have improved, that hasn't helped her 595 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: case at all. And she seems not only aware of that, 596 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: but accepting of that. She's accepting of that and advocating 597 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: for other people, mentoring other women in prison, and helping 598 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: make positive change for those who come behind her. And 599 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: I just think that that speaks volumes of her character, 600 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: speaks volumes of what Centuria Brown is capable of. And 601 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: I more minds me that we all need to come 602 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: to her defense. We all need to play a role 603 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,479 Speaker 1: in making her life a little easier. So what can 604 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: folks do? Well? You can be like Kim Kardashian West 605 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: and you can tweet about it for starters, And if 606 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: you're at Kim Kardashian West type and you have access 607 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: to a high powered celebrity attorney, which Kim Kardashian West does, 608 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: you can get her involved. Kim Kardashian West actually was 609 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: in the news this week or getting her celebrity attorney 610 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: involved in this case. Awesome, awesome, So use that hashtag 611 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: free Cintoya Brown and her name is spelled c y 612 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 1: n t o I A Brown. Um. You can sign 613 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: the move on dot org petition that has nearly half 614 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,439 Speaker 1: a million signatures already. But let's be practical here. You're 615 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: listening to stuff mom never told you on your iPhone 616 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,840 Speaker 1: in your car. If you want to make real change 617 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: in Cintoia Brown's life right now, I want you to 618 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: pull over. I want you to write this down. I 619 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: want you to get your notebook out. I want you 620 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: to get that notes app ready because you can actually 621 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: directly communicate with and directly support Cintoia Brown. We just 622 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: signed up to do it ourselves, Bridget. How can folks 623 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: spread a message of support, hope, love, and even put 624 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: some dollar bills behind Cintoya Brown herself so you can 625 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 1: write to her in prison. You can find her at 626 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: Miss Centoya D. Brown number four one zero five nine 627 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 1: three to south C twelve one Stewart's Lane, Nashville, Tennessee, 628 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: zip code three seven to one eight. You can also 629 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,919 Speaker 1: sign up for a website called j pay dot com, 630 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: which helps you put money in the bank for Cinoia 631 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 1: Brown to access in prison at jp dot com. Just 632 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: search for the state Tennessee and search for inmate number 633 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,439 Speaker 1: four one zero five nine three. There you can set 634 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: up a free account. You'll identify the right inmate, you 635 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: can see her name is right there, and you can 636 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: send her money directly. You can even sign up to 637 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: make recurring payments. So listen, there's not much we can 638 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,800 Speaker 1: do unless you're an attorney who wants to head to 639 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: Tennessee yourself, or hire your celebrity attorney to do that too. 640 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: Unless you can fight the laws on the books here 641 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 1: and stay monitoring this case, There's not much we can 642 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: do to make a case like Cintoia Browns, who slipped 643 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: through the cracks better at this point. But what we 644 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 1: can do is spread a message of hope, of support, 645 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 1: of encouragement for this young woman who has come so 646 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,719 Speaker 1: very far already, but deserves so much more than the 647 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: deck of cards she's been handed. I would also urge 648 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: folks to watch the two thousand eleven PBS documentary about 649 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: her case called Me Facing Life. Honestly, watching that documentary 650 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 1: in preparation for this episode really showed me what a 651 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: mature young woman she's become despite the fact that most 652 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: of her life was either spent on the streets or 653 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: behind bars. Cintoya in this film describes the situation wherein 654 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: she doesn't want to be pretty anymore. She cuts off 655 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: her hair and shaves her eyebrows because being attractive gets 656 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: you nothing but trouble, and looking at her life, I 657 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: can understand how a young woman would come to that conclusion. 658 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,840 Speaker 1: So at the end of this documentary, you really find 659 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: this young person trying to figure out who she is 660 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 1: in the world, even as she's behind bars, and what 661 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 1: it all means. Here's what she has to say about herself. 662 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: That's part of the reason I cut my ear off 663 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: and shame my eye brows off. It's kind of liked 664 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: to prove to myself that I'm beautiful with all that 665 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and I'm worth more than that. 666 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: Did you feel that? Yeah, every now and then I 667 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: feel stupid for cutting are off, for shame my eye brows, 668 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: But basically I think I haven't for the past two 669 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,320 Speaker 1: years working on making a personality I've never had one before. 670 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: And if you want to reach out with your words 671 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: of wisdom, with your show of support, now is the 672 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: time when Cintoya is deciding who she is and who 673 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: she wants to become. Right, we all have been in 674 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: a vulnerable position in our lives at some point when 675 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: we were facing the same question of who am I? 676 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,320 Speaker 1: Who am I not defined by mick external quality is 677 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: not defined by my relationships or utility to other people, 678 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: specifically abuse of men in our lives. If you want 679 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: to share your words of support, please take a moment 680 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 1: today right to Cintoia. Don't write to us, take this 681 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: opportunity to write to Cintoya, and even if you can't 682 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,800 Speaker 1: donate to her account, which we also highly encourage you 683 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,919 Speaker 1: to do, share with her what her words have meant 684 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: to you today. Because we can't go back in time 685 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: and make this situation much better, but we can make 686 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: her future a lot better. At this critical point, and 687 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: consider the fact that she really serves as a mentor 688 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: for other young people who are involved in the criminal 689 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,320 Speaker 1: justice system. It's not too late for her to be 690 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: an impactful force in the lives of others and to 691 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: keep other people from getting tangled up in an unfair, tricky, 692 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: dangerous system the way that she has been. And so 693 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 1: I encourage all of us to really lift her up 694 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: and support her, because I don't think what happened to 695 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: her was there, and I'm glad that people are talking 696 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,400 Speaker 1: about it and we want to hear what you have 697 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 1: to say. What do you think about brown story? What 698 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: did you think about the idea of the sexual abuse 699 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: to prison pipeline? Is it something you've heard of? What 700 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: do you think it means when someone commits a crime 701 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: as a youth and it's dealt with as if they 702 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: were were an adult. You want to hear from you. 703 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: Send us a tweet at mom Stuff podcast, hit us 704 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: up on Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You, And 705 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: as always, we love getting your emails at mom stuff 706 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com