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Application times may 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:48.160 vary and rates may vary well. As the calendar goes, 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:52.520 it means primary season is really sort of truly going 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:54.280 to kick off. We got a taste, we have a 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.560 little taste of primary season in Texas and in Illinois 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:00.280 with these March primaries, but they were in very much 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:06.600 sort of like really important preseason games that counted certainly. 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:11.600 But now the true primary scene. It's beginning pretty much 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:16.200 every Tuesday in May, every Tuesday in June, a couple 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.120 of weeks off in July, and then every Tuesday in August. 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:23.720 I mean basically primary season. The heart of it kicks 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:29.480 off with May. And look, there's interesting primary divides on 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:34.240 both sides of the aisle it is. You know, we 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:38.360 can talk a lot about Thomas Massey. I think the 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.480 acceptance that the president is a lame duck becomes more 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.639 widespread in mainstream if his side loses that primary. So 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:47.919 I think it's a very distinctive primary. But we've also 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.120 seen on the Senate side, in particular, on the Democratic 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:54.320 side sort of I don't know what to call the 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:58.240 non progressive swing of the Democratic Party these days. Is 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:02.360 it center laughed, is it pro business? Is it I 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.880 think it all depends on what they want to be 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.480 called versus what their opponents might be called. You might 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:10.880 want to say it's the pragmatic wing. Whatever you want 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:15.160 to view it probably really says about your own subjectivity, 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:17.520 which is why I'm sensitive and what I call it, 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:21.480 I'm trying not to give any sort of waiting language 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.600 to what it is. But we have this sort of 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:31.160 progressive versus non progressive battles in Maine, Michigan, Iowa. That 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.560 could be definitionial and to me serve as a preview 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.080 of what's going to happen inside the party for twenty 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.080 twenty eight. Well, one of the people that I think 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.040 maybe the person and I think has their finger on 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:46.000 the pulse of this is my friend Adam Green. You 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.280 may know him from the p Triple C, the Progressive 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.600 Change Committee, but he's a democratic strategist and certainly is 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.600 pretty active and progressive politics. And I don't know whether 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.560 he's going to take this as a compliment or derision. 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:02.880 So Adam, here it comes. You're a pragmatic progressive, meaning 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.640 I do think your north star is winning. You certainly 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:11.560 want to win with a progressive agenda, but I feel 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:15.040 like you've got you would be you would call yourself 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.640 more pragmatic, but let me let you define yourself. 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:20.880 Well, first, thank you. Great to be talking with you 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.360 as always, And I don't take that as insult at all. 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.040 And you know, when you said is the opposite of 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.400 progressive pragmatic, My first thought is it's pretty pragmatic to 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.200 run on a winning message, and these days, as we. 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.360 Go, find a winning message right and go be right. 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.320 And you know, I think we can go deep on this. 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:39.960 But you mentioned some of the key races we're looking at, 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.040 whether it's Grand Platin or in Maine, we're supporting Abdul 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.920 alsaiat in Michigan there's a couple of good candidates there. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.960 We also endorse James tel Rico against Jasmcrockett in Texas, 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:51.480 which I would hold out as another one that stands 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.359 for this question of one, are we just an anti 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.080 Trump party or do we have a vision? And if 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.120 we have a vision, are we willing to tell a 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:01.520 story about power, name villain or just kind of have 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.240 a mushy message about fighting for everyone, which I think 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:06.800 motivates nobody to the polls. So let's let's go a 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:08.599 little deeper. But I take it as a compliment, so 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:08.920 thank you. 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:14.000 So look, where would you say the progressive wing of 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:15.800 the party is right now? Do you still view it 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:19.920 as a sendant? And you know you just name checked 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.479 a couple of races, But what does success look like 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.520 for the progressive agenda regardless of whether Democrats win back 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:27.760 the House in the Senate. 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:31.760 Yeah, that's a great question, and you know I can 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:34.839 define our mission for the year really in one sentence, 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:40.120 which is show in twenty twenty six swing races, particularly 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:44.359 swing Senate races, that bold inspiring economic populism is a 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:48.640 winner as a priming of presential primary voters for twenty seven, 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:51.039 twenties twenty eight. You know, we want we saw in 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.080 twenty twenty a lot of people that told us as 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.080 Elizabeth Warren supporters, oh I love Elizabeth Warren. If I 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:57.560 put anyone in the White House, that would be her, 0:05:58.320 --> 0:05:59.760 but I can't vote for her kish she can't win. 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.560 Heard that too much also with Bernie and we just 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:06.599 need to solve this division between head and heart and 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:08.599 let people who were inspired to feel like it's okay 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:12.120 to be inspired. So as we see gymnasiums full of 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.000 five hundred and six hundred people in the main coming 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.960 out in the most rural areas to see Graham Platner, 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:19.320 and those people are getting inspired. You know, we want 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:23.960 future primary voters to not feel like they have to 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:26.320 trim their own sales if they get inspired by someone 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.760 like Platiner or tell Rico abdul Side. 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.880 So what do you think that's ear played Platinners? Why 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.279 does a Graham Platiner seem like it gets more traction 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:38.239 than Elizabeth Warren with the left. 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:44.279 Yeah, there's multiple facets of that, you know. I actually 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:49.039 think he's an amazing storyteller. You watch him speak, he's 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:52.120 actually not giving a laundry list of policies. He is 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:55.800 telling a story about power, and supporting details in his 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:59.320 story happen to be policies. Right, He'll say, pretty much, 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.240 you're getting screwed to these forces in society. The billionaires, 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.039 the corporations, the rigged politics are working against you at 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.600 every level. You know, I fought for our country. I'm 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.120 an oyster farmer. I know how broken this system is. 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:12.240 I'm going to fight it. And by the way, we'll 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.120 have things like medicare for all. Right, It's not I 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:18.040 have a plan for that. Frankly, it is you're getting screwed. 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.119 I have a story. And unlike Trump, who also says 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.640 you're getting screwed, I have a story. He's not blaming immigrants. 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:26.520 He's blaming billionaires, corporate power, and a rigged political system itself. 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:28.840 It's I think it's really that simple, you know. I 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.760 think others would have a gender and race analysis, which 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:33.920 or at least gender gender analysis in this case, which 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.360 is probably fair. I do think that there's a lot 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.680 of skittishness, including among some very progressive women I talk 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.840 to about you know, are we ready to nominly a 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:46.400 woman yet again? And it's really heartbreaking to hear that sometimes. 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.680 So maybe there's a comfort with all right, Well, if 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.120 you have this veteran who looks the part and can 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.520 tell a story and feels good, maybe it's safer to 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.600 go there. You know, that's a that's a fair question. 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.880 Also, well, it is interesting that is it just a 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:05.640 coincidence that the progressives you're championing this year all or 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.720 sort of what I would call strong, you know, want 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.840 to give out the sense of being a strong masculine figure. 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.800 I'd put ad I'll say it in that yeah column. 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.560 If you're saying he is pretty jacked, you're right, he's 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:22.280 I think that's fair. 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.240 I didn't miss arm day. Yeah, he doesn't miss harm 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:24.760 day very. 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.560 Yeah. Yeah, no, I think again, I don't know if 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.240 that's necessary, but it's certainly a plus point for a 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.360 lot of people to make them feel comfortable being inspired. 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:37.440 So it's working for us in those swing states, you know, 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.360 Marie losing Campez is an interesting person. She was a swing, 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.280 very swing area in Washington, rural Washington State. I don't 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.320 agree with our everything, but she is also a very 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.160 robust champion for things like cracking down on monopolies and 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.880 selling our politics. And I don't think you have to 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:55.120 have just masculinity to appeal to working class voters. But again, 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.960 starting with the premise that there were scared electability voters 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.720 who felt guilty voting for the person that inspired them 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.319 last time, I think twenty twenty six is a valuable 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:08.120 opportunity to do the trick and swing state system. 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.320 I'm intrigued that you singled out MGP. I'm intrigued by 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:16.000 her myself on the independent front a little bit. And 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:20.440 you know, I you know, my whole obsession these days 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:26.240 with with sort of re re defining what the center 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:30.000 means in American politics. The center isn't an ideological place. 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.280 You know, when people describe themselves as moderate more nine 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.960 times out of ten, it's in temperament less than it 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.600 is in policy, meaning you know that they want you know, 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:45.160 they they may have progressive leanings but they're an incrementalist 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:47.280 about it. Or they may even have conservative leanings, but 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:49.600 they're an incrementalist about it. They're like, look, we want 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.000 to we want to directionally move there, but we don't 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.640 want to race to that. And because it does feel 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.840 like this, and I'm speaking, I'll speak for myself that 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:00.240 sometimes you race ahead and you have to take You 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.000 may think you've just left three steps forward, but actually 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.680 the backlash you end up going two steps back. You 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.120 make some progress, but it looks it sometimes can be 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.599 misleading that you've made progress because you leapt forward and 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:15.560 then step back. Your baseline is better, but you haven't 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:19.839 gotten there. Well, just can I just yeah, go ahead 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.559 and push back on it. I'm curious what's your reaction 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:26.199 to my premise about the center these days? 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.320 Yeah, first, let me wreck that's narrow point me at 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:30.200 the end, then go back to the big one. I 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:31.920 totally agree with you that we have to bring people 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.319 along for the ride. I think actually Zorn Mam Donnie 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:36.600 is doing a fantastic job in New York. I believe 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:38.920 his approval is twenty points higher today than it was 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:40.840 when he was sworn in, And that says to me 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.080 that he's doing a go accommodation of boldness and pragmatism. 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.679 Pothhole politics and aspirational politics, and he's not going too 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:49.640 far ahead. So completely agree with the premise that we 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.000 can't get ahead of ourselves. I would push back on 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:58.320 the current definition of those who call themselves moderate. And 0:10:58.360 --> 0:10:59.960 I got to tell you, I see most of politics 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.440 these days less about left versus right, and more about 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:06.240 inside versus outside creatures of what is preceded as a 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.640 broken political system and broken economic system versus those who 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.640 want to shake it up. And when you wear those lenses, 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:17.520 you see moderates often as people who want more change 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.800 and think that both parties are corrupt and not actually 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.040 advocate for people like them. I think that as we 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.079 see you know, unaffiliated numbers rise, those are people who 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:27.520 are just mad at the system. 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:32.000 And they're not centrists. This is what I reject. They 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:36.240 may be moderate in temperament and that's why, but they 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:38.920 are not centrist in that. Hey, they are trying to 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:43.560 split the difference on marginal tax rates. That's not what 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:44.319 they're advocating. 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:49.000 Yeah, so let's go back to Grand Platner. Would you 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.600 consider him temperamentally moderate? 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:59.240 Hm? No, okay, right, not at all. 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.560 That may moderates are attracted to him specifically because he 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.960 doesn't feel like a creature of the system, right, But 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:09.400 he's advocating really bold, power, dynamic change. So is James 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.720 tallerco Maybe you think he is temperamentally moderate in how 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.240 he speaks, but the stuff he's saying on the campaign trail, 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.880 you know, he's asked, you know, what are you do 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.719 about welfare? You know, welfare queens. He's like, you know, 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.839 the real welfare queens are the corporations that don't pay 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.760 their taxes. Then he's asked, are you declaring class war? 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.559 He's like, you know who's been declaring class war? Billionaires 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:30.959 on us for the last fifty years. It's time to 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.920 fight back. Is that temperamentally moderate? I don't know. But 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.040 it's beautiful and it's inspiring people. So I just don't 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.400 know that they want incremental change. I agree with your 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:42.600 premise we have to bring the public along with us. Well, 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.800 I think the public starts off there with anything that 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.680 shows distrust of a broken economic and political system and 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.079 someone who has the credibility to say I will be 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:51.840 a change agent. 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.760 Let me throw this at you another way. Do you 0:12:55.960 --> 0:13:03.319 think do you think both major parties right now are 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:07.720 indestructible or could what I'm watching in the UK where 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.600 both major parties are on the verge of becoming minor 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.320 parties the election we're hell today that both would be 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:16.040 there'd be a new Conservative Party and a new Liberal Party. 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.360 There'd be a need you know that that would rise 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.560 up above the Tories and Labor. How vulnerable we have 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.959 structural differences in obviously our system. How vulnerable do you 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:30.160 think both parties are to collapse at some point? Because 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.199 I look at this right when you do the seesaw 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:37.480 where voters are simply rejecting your agenda each time they're 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.160 not advocating. They have not voted for anything since Obama 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.840 twenty twelve. It's been a consistent I don't want that, 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:46.440 So I'll try this. Well, I don't want that. I'm 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.720 going to try this. At what point does this does 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.160 the does one of the two parties or both collapse 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.920 on the weight of not at some point? Like I 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.200 look at the Democratic Party brand this year. They're going 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.560 to have a huge mid year and their brand might 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.280 actually be still underwater the entire time, which is a 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:06.800 unique thing to pull off. 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:09.839 Yeah, I think you're totally right to put your finger 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.840 on this. You know, my opinion. Both parties have collapsed reputationally, 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.880 but as you said, structurally, it's kind of propping up. 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.400 They control battle access and is while they If they 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.520 didn't have battle access control, I think neither party would 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:25.680 be a major party today. 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.160 Yeah, that's absolutely true. If we had the British system right, 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.760 they would collapse. So, you know, I think that's the 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.080 biggest thing allowing them to hang on. You know, there 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:36.880 are some people I'll give a shout out to a 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.000 guy named Danny Cantor who helped form the Working Families 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.240 Party in New York, which had its own ballot line. 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.080 Also got named Adam Rubin, who's working on proportional representation. 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.200 And I do think that as the parties do collapse, 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.240 it will happen locally first where rules are changed to 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.360 allow first things like rank choice voting, but then having 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:57.080 just get walking like multi member districts where you have 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.800 proportional representation one part he gets a third of the vote, 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:02.040 they get in, there's three seats, they get one of 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:03.640 the seats. They don't lose all three seats because they 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.680 like got a third and all three smaller elections. There's 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.080 little reforms like that that are actually passing locally and 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.560 in states that I think are a harbinger of what's 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.600 to come. You know, one thing I've recommended to some 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.080 of them is, you know, how do you get around 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.080 the problem of politicians who know what the right thing 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:22.640 to do is but want to cling onto their own 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.040 political power. And I think that we should be comfortable 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.440 with with adding a time element where you know what, 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.520 starting in eight years, we will have more open ballot 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.680 access or proportional representation, and that way the current politicians 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:36.440 get out of their system and they know that it's 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.360 not a culgetable being used against them. But or we 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.560 can spend eight years, you know, back to pragmatic or 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.720 it could spend eight years losing and just have nothing 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.560 in the in the reform you know, realm pass And 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:49.240 you know I mentioned that to some reformers and they're like, oh, 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:50.960 we haven't thought about that before, and it's like, to me, 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:53.360 so obvious. Actually, I'll tell you one one other story. 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.840 You know, someone in Bernie World in twenty twenty one 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.520 happened to mention to me as in the side as 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.040 he was pushing for a fifteen dollar minimum wage, that 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.520 you know what Joe Manchin supports a twelve dollar minimum wage, 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.760 and you know what, Bernie Sanders has a five year 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:10.760 phase in where it takes three years to even get 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.520 the twelve dollars. Maybe we should just agree with Joe 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.880 Manchin and then have three years to worry about the 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.240 last three bucks. Right and months later, I actually asked 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.040 Joe Manchin's people did they ever come to you at 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:23.800 that And the answer was no. But to me, that 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.320 would have been such a great example of just. 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.480 Saying, now, this gets it to what I talk about, 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:32.480 which is, you know, look, you know, this feels like 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.280 one of those situations. And I think the biggest problem 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.760 both parties have is they have interest groups who if 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:39.280 they don't get one hundred percent of what they want, 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.880 they won't find allies that are eighty percent there like 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:43.880 what you just described. 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:46.600 Yeah, I mean in this case, I don't think it was. 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:48.680 I don't think Bernie Sanders feels pressure from anyone, let 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.080 alone an individual interest group. I just think that was 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:53.640 probably just a communications you know, it was really an 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.240 aside in a conversation more than an active strategy. But 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.760 to me, that's an example of oh, well, we're now 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.040 what five years later we would have a twelve dollar 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.760 minimum wage today if that deal had been cut, and 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.159 meanwhile we're still technically fighting about the minimum wage. So 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.359 I'm just saying, to your democracy point, I think we 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.760 should introduce a time element into it as a way 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:13.680 of you know, Supreme Court justices, Okay, we'll start term 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.640 limits in ten years. I hate that, but you know what, 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:18.760 it's better if we did ten years ago. It would 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:20.960 have been great now. Right, So we just have to, 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.600 you know, be pragmatic and you know, play a long 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:25.080 game a little bit. Assuming we still have a country 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:25.840 in ten years. 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.720 Well, by the way, we've done that for years whenever 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:33.160 they've So let's say you institute term limits. Let's say 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.520 you've decided he institute term limits for your governorship. Well, 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:40.680 it doesn't the current governor. It doesn't impact them. They 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.760 get two more terms and then it would impact them. Right. 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.160 There's always some like this is not a new it's 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.880 we've done similar things before, but we don't think about 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:50.520 it in the terms of the way you just framed it. 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.440 Sure, we're saying the same thing, but I'm not sure 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:57.440 it's the default. Yes, I feel like it's kind of 0:17:57.480 --> 0:17:59.520 the exemption more than the rule. Right now, and I 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:01.760 almost say that for those who are thinking seriously about reform, 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.880 we have to just add the time element to get 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.320 over the structural barrier that you're putting your finger on, 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.840 which is people you know or parties want to cling 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:10.800 to their current power. 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:14.720 Democrats win the House in the Senate and Chuck Schumer 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.720 and not came Jeffries that remain the leaders of the 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.680 party for the next two years. Is that a successful 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:21.320 midterm or not. 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.960 It's a successful midterm, but it doesn't put the Democratic 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:27.480 Party on a path, on the best path to a 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.320 successful twenty twenty eight. Our organization has called for Chuck 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.640 Schumer to step aside, and I think the pragmatic version 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:39.040 of that is you just shouldn't run for leadership next year. 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:43.000 And I would actually argue that now is the time 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.080 to press that case. I've talked to some people in 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:45.760 the Senate. 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:47.800 World they can pledge. Now is that the idea. 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:51.320 How to try to smoke Yeah, smoke amount now. The 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:53.720 reason is, if you think back to the twenty twenty 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.360 two election, we could have an exact repeat with Chuck 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.960 Schumer of what happened with Joe Biden, where yes Democrats overperformed, 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.480 but it wasn't a validation of Joe Biden, and if 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.439 Democrats win the Senate, it is not a validation of 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.359 Struck Schumer. But you know, if he's just handed a 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.280 Senate majority and there's been no real challenge, he will 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.160 cling on. So it has to be a case that's 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:15.520 pushed before the election in order to be successful or 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.240 to have maximum success in my opinion. And I will 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:22.160 say we have at least four states where credible Senate 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.800 candidates have called on him to belong to Beta leader 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.399 and a victory in the Illinois Senate primary where the 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.840 candidate who called for that one. So I think grand 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.520 Platner's another, There's another in Michigan, other Iowa, and we'll 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:34.920 see how that plays out. 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.320 This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:45.280 by Wild Grain. Wild Grain is the first baked from 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:50.280 frozen subscription box for sour dough breads, artisanal pastries, and 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.800 fresh pastas, plus all the items conveniently baked in twenty 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:57.760 five minutes or less. 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