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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Masters in

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Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: This week on the podcast, I have an extra special

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Speaker 2: guest guest plural Heather and Doug Bonaparte.

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Speaker 3: I've known Doug for ten years maybe something like that, and.

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Speaker 2: Heather for a couple of years. When I went to

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Speaker 2: their book party and dragged my brother.

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Speaker 3: Alaw because he was in the neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: We sat and had a conversation and I'm like, a

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Speaker 2: book about couples money is going to be you know,

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Speaker 2: it is what it is. And as we were chatting,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, son of a gun, this is a really

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Speaker 2: interesting topic for the podcast. I have to have them

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Speaker 2: on and I thought this conversation was absolutely fascinating, not

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Speaker 2: just about power dynamics within a relationship, but everything from budgeting,

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Speaker 2: pre n up agreements, inheritance communication. Really this was really fascinating.

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Speaker 2: I found it super interesting and I think you will

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Speaker 2: also with no further ado my conversation with Heather and

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Speaker 2: Doug Ponapart.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having us, Thanks for having us.

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Speaker 2: So I've been excited to have you come talk about

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Speaker 2: this since your book party because it is not the

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Speaker 2: usual financial book. It is a lot of stories. You

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Speaker 2: guys have interviewed hundreds of couples. But before we get

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Speaker 2: to the book, I want to just dive a little

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Speaker 2: bit into your backgrounds.

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Speaker 3: Heather, you went to law school.

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Speaker 2: At my alma Mada Benjamin and Cardosis School Law in

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Speaker 2: New York City.

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Speaker 5: I didn't know that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we both want there. Oh, I love that, not

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Speaker 3: at the same time.

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Speaker 2: And Doug, you got your MBA from NYU Stern. Very

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Speaker 2: different career paths. Tell us what were the original plans.

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Speaker 6: Well, the original plan for a for an elder millennial

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Speaker 6: like myself, I think got thrown out the window, you know,

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Speaker 6: during the Great Recession in two thousand and eight. So

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Speaker 6: I was in law school when that happened. Yeah, and

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Speaker 6: so I graduated in a very different labor environment than

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Speaker 6: the one I entered school, and so my expectations were

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Speaker 6: not met.

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Speaker 5: I mean that's an understatement.

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Speaker 6: So you know, I ended up in the world of

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Speaker 6: commercial insurance, which shouldn't surprise you that that was not

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Speaker 6: exactly what I went to school for.

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Speaker 4: It. I loved commercial insurance, you know.

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Speaker 6: What I ended up having, you know, having a fine

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Speaker 6: career in that for over thirteen years, and I really

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Speaker 6: liked learning a lot about risk, which we write a

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Speaker 6: lot about in the book, but that was certainly not

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Speaker 6: the path and the reason that I went there, And

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Speaker 6: so much of my earliest money stories as a young

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Speaker 6: adult were really wrapped up in the shame that came

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Speaker 6: from graduating law school with six figures of student loan

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Speaker 6: debt to a labor environment that was not welcoming to

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Speaker 6: young lawyers.

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Speaker 2: And the studies show you graduate into a recession, your

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Speaker 2: lifetime earnings are actually lower than people who'll graduate into

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Speaker 2: a boom, which is really interesting sort of thing. Doug

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Speaker 2: Nba from NYU Stern, What was the plan?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so by the time I made it to grad school,

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Speaker 4: I was still focused on building my own wealth management

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Speaker 4: firm and building a book of business. I grew up

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Speaker 4: the son of a certified financial planner, so I've done

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Speaker 4: nothing else in my professional That was always the plan

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Speaker 4: from start, was always the plan. That's what I was

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Speaker 4: doing during college. Undergraduate went to New York City as

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Speaker 4: a love story. Wanted to be with Heather, and that

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Speaker 4: was October, literally October two thousand and eight. I'm getting

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Speaker 4: off a plane that was really going on nothing was happening,

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Speaker 4: so watching it all, he.

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Speaker 6: Moved to New York City with a Duffel bag and

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Speaker 6: a dream straight out of a movie.

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Speaker 4: I shipped up three boxes and went to Sleepies on

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Speaker 4: Fifth to get a bed that day, random roommate on Craigslist.

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Speaker 4: My wife and I watched a whole bunch of rom

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Speaker 4: coms over the holidays, and this is like the setup

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Speaker 4: for one of them. We're leaving out you to meet

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Speaker 4: as freshman at the University of Florida. So you guys

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Speaker 4: been to get other since freshman year?

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Speaker 3: Is that right?

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Speaker 4: Since nineteen eighteen, nineteen, nineteen ninety eighteen nineteen, So it's

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Speaker 4: one one hundred and thirty.

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Speaker 6: No, But you know, and I think we make this

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Speaker 6: point too then, and we're transparent about this.

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Speaker 5: We're not perfect.

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Speaker 6: I mean, Doug and I I would say, lived the

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Speaker 6: life cycle of some marriages before even getting married.

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Speaker 5: I mean, we had to figure.

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Speaker 6: Out what it would look like to be adults and

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Speaker 6: grow up together or apart. I mean they were a

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Speaker 6: couple of years there where we didn't know whether we

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Speaker 6: had a future together. When I went to New York City,

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Speaker 6: he moved home to work for his father and.

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Speaker 4: Here's home South Florida.

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Speaker 2: Boker retone okay, broker an.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So wait, so you meet when you're eighteen or nineteen

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Speaker 2: years old. Just about when did you first start talking

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Speaker 2: about money with each other?

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Speaker 3: Was that way off in the future or was that

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Speaker 3: an early conversation.

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Speaker 5: It was not a conversation for a long time.

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Speaker 6: I don't think we really started talking about money together

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Speaker 6: until we it came back together and said, like, it

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Speaker 6: was really after law school that we took a hard

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Speaker 6: look at at each other and where we had been

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Speaker 6: and where we were, and we said, we want to

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Speaker 6: give this a real shot, we want to start our adult.

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Speaker 4: Lives our shot together. Yeah, but we were observing money

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Speaker 4: behaviors for our entire time, dating throughout undergraduate and probably

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Speaker 4: me observing Heather more than Heather observing me. You're an

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Speaker 4: only child product of divorce. Her story is shared in

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Speaker 4: detail in the book. So I was, as the son

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Speaker 4: of a financial advisor and working in an advisory practice,

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Speaker 4: probably getting a lot more observation points on Heather than

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Speaker 4: her on me. But to Heather's point, when we ultimately

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Speaker 4: had decisions, joint financial decisions to make, such as sharing rent,

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Speaker 4: the typical stuff that couples come together for I would

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Speaker 4: say because we had those observation points around each other

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Speaker 4: and obviously being together for so long before we needed

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Speaker 4: to make decisions, it played in our favor and helped

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Speaker 4: us navigate it. Although I don't think you or I

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Speaker 4: I anticipated multiple six figures of graduate student loan debt

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Speaker 4: as this big boulder we had to figure out how

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Speaker 4: to move in our financial puzzle.

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Speaker 6: And I don't think that he could have anticipated the

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Speaker 6: weight that the debt would have on me. And you know,

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Speaker 6: it's so interesting, and we interviewed a couple for the book,

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Speaker 6: and I would say the same for Doug too, Like

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Speaker 6: there's people who viewed debt, especially like debt from higher education,

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Speaker 6: as you know, this is an investment in myself, It's

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Speaker 6: an opportunity. It was a necessary evil to get where

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Speaker 6: I need to go. That was not the message that

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Speaker 6: I was telling myself. My debt was not some outside,

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Speaker 6: you know, financial hurdle.

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Speaker 5: My debt was me. It stood for everything that I wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Really, I'm so shocked to hear. I mean, having read

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Speaker 2: the book and I know you, not as much as

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Speaker 2: I know Doug, but I know you. I'm really kind

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Speaker 2: of surprised that that I can compartmentalize things like that.

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Speaker 2: And just like I remember when we were young and

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Speaker 2: broke and my wife used to sit there Sunday nights

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Speaker 2: writing checks out and she's like, we don't have enough

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Speaker 2: money to send all seven checks. I'm like, that's easy.

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Speaker 2: Send the check, don't sign it to whicheverone and they'll

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Speaker 2: bounce it back. And you know, you try and just

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Speaker 2: remember which one you could do. You could rotate through

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Speaker 2: seven and by then, hopefully we'll have a little more money.

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Speaker 3: She was AGAs at that. I could not possibly care less.

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Speaker 6: It's so interesting, And there were elements of it that

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Speaker 6: we were totally okay with. Like I remember we first

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Speaker 6: moved in together on the Upper West Side. We would

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Speaker 6: go to Fairway to the grocery store, and we had

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Speaker 6: like our set of like of very affordable meats that

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Speaker 6: we could get every week. Every week, we ate the

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Speaker 6: same things, and I packed us lunch every single.

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Speaker 5: Day to go to work. And I was completely okay

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Speaker 5: with that.

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Speaker 6: But anytime there was a major financial decision we had

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Speaker 6: to make her. Anytime there was even like the smallest

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Speaker 6: hiccup with my student loan debt repayment, I mean, it

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Speaker 6: would send me into these like deep emotional spirals and

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Speaker 6: they were not just about the money.

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Speaker 5: It was like I am.

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Speaker 6: Worthless, I'm never going to get anywhere in my career.

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Speaker 6: I can't believe I did this to myself, Like it

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Speaker 6: really ran so deep.

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Speaker 5: I was punishing myself.

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Speaker 2: So there's a line in the book that I want

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Speaker 2: to bring up here because it very much relates to

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Speaker 2: what you're saying. Quote, most money conflicts aren't really about money.

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Speaker 2: Explain what are they actually about?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's so we have a whole first section of

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Speaker 4: this book that touches on our beginnings. Right who we

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Speaker 4: are in our relationship with money starts long before you

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Speaker 4: meet your partner. It is the meals you shared with

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Speaker 4: your family, where you went on vacation. Maybe it's some

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Speaker 4: trauma you experience, or the socioeconomic status both from the

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Speaker 4: side of being privileged, all the way to food insecurity

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Speaker 4: or housing insecurity, our cultures, our religion. It is almost endless,

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Speaker 4: the amount of touch points in our past that shape

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Speaker 4: the way we feel about money, that we bring into

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Speaker 4: our relationships, that we bring into our adulthood. When we

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Speaker 4: are having an emotional response to money, it's usually not

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Speaker 4: the number on the screen or the check your writing

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Speaker 4: and the bill you can or cannot pay. It is

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Speaker 4: something you're fixing it to that you've experienced. And if

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Speaker 4: you can get to the bottom of that, if you

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Speaker 4: can create that relationship, you're going to be that much

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Speaker 4: better off in evolving and having a better financial relationship

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Speaker 4: because now you've got to bring all that to your

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Speaker 4: partner who also has all of that in their own

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Speaker 4: unique way. And I think that right there shows you

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Speaker 4: how difficult this particular topic is around love and money.

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Speaker 2: So when you guys sit down with a couple to

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Speaker 2: talk about money and financial planning, what's the biggest mistake

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Speaker 2: you see, what are most couples, what's the biggest error

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Speaker 2: that comes up time and again.

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Speaker 5: They're not communicating.

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Speaker 6: They're not communicating either substantively about these issues about they're

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Speaker 6: not going deep enough to understand why.

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Speaker 4: They feel the way they very surface level.

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Speaker 6: Very surface level, and they're getting caught in these surface

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Speaker 6: level disagreements. Right. It's these behaviors that happen over and

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Speaker 6: over again because we're not taking the time to dig

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Speaker 6: deeper to understand what's actually going on, Like what Doug

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Speaker 6: just said, because That's how you build empathy for one another.

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Speaker 6: You may not agree with the way your partner approaches it,

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Speaker 6: but if you don't even understand why they feel the

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Speaker 6: way they feel, you're never going to get past those

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Speaker 6: squabbles over spending or about what you're saving for and

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Speaker 6: being misaligned on your goals unless you're taking that extra

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Speaker 6: step to really understand. Empathy builds that bridge in people communication.

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Speaker 3: Doug, you want to say something.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I like putting examples and stories behind that. You

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Speaker 4: have someone who does the shopping in a household. They

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Speaker 4: come home with an extra bag of rice or we

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Speaker 4: already have that item. The other partner gets very upset.

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Speaker 4: We already have four chicken broths and you bought two more.

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Speaker 4: Maybe you know, is it that they spent the money

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Speaker 4: on two more boxes of chicken broth? Or is it

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Speaker 4: because there were some issues with food security growing up

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Speaker 4: and that is plaguing their identity around money, so they

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Speaker 4: fight about the chicken broth.

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Speaker 6: We did interview, Yeah, we interviewed someone who came from

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Speaker 6: and I think it's a great example. Came from extreme

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Speaker 6: adverse childhood experiences. They experienced homelessness.

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Speaker 3: Abuse, living in the car, living in.

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Speaker 6: The car, and one of the ways that played out

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Speaker 6: in his young adult life was always over stalking his

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Speaker 6: fridge and always overstocking his pantry because you never wanted

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Speaker 6: to feel the safety. You feel safety and being overconsumptive

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Speaker 6: as an adult.

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Speaker 5: So just one example of how that shows up.

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Speaker 2: I'm not a prepper, but we had plenty of paper,

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Speaker 2: toils and toilet paper heading into the pandemic, which you

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Speaker 2: write about. One of the things that shocked me in

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Speaker 2: the book was the whole debate about joint accounts, separate accounts,

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Speaker 2: hybrid I mean, to me, this is partnership blasphemy. I

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Speaker 2: had to ask my wife this morning, hey, when did

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Speaker 2: we set up our joint account? And she's like, don't

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Speaker 2: you remember we were leaving for our honeymoon. We got

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Speaker 2: married on a on a Sunday afternoon, We got home

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Speaker 2: a Sunday, and then we got home at like six

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Speaker 2: seven o'clock. We signed all the checks, gave it to

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Speaker 2: our neighbor to deposit. That was our opening deposit and

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Speaker 2: our joint account. Anybody I know that doesn't have. Everybody

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Speaker 2: I know who's married disproportionately has join accounts if they're

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Speaker 2: still married, and we went over the other day talking

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Speaker 2: about this. Over all the couples we know that are divorced,

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Speaker 2: how many of them did not have joint accounts, and

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Speaker 2: a disproportionate number that we knew about because she's usually

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Speaker 2: friends with the wife. I'm friends with osband, and sometimes

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Speaker 2: we after divorce, you inherit.

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Speaker 3: One side or the other.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand how you can get married and not

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Speaker 2: pull your assets pulled the fire financial responsibility, or at

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Speaker 2: least the discussions about what are we spending, how much

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Speaker 2: is a vacation, what are we spending on shoes or

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Speaker 2: watches or whatever? And I'm genuinely shocked.

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Speaker 3: That's a debate. What did you guys find.

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Speaker 5: I would start with the caveat that.

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Speaker 6: I think that there are legitimate reasons why people are

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Speaker 6: apprehensive to join and pool all of their finances together.

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Speaker 6: If it's a second marriage, or if somebody came from

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Speaker 6: maybe an abusive family like there could be legitimate reasons why,

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Speaker 6: or come from a lot of money, or come from

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Speaker 6: a lot of money, which you know they.

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Speaker 2: May have a separate trust or a separate account, but

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Speaker 2: at the very least, isn't there a household account you're

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Speaker 2: paying the mortgage, your rant, you're paying for vacations, clothes, food.

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Speaker 6: Oh, we completely agree, completely agree with you on this

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Speaker 6: that having a joint account puts you in the best position.

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Speaker 5: To work as a team.

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Speaker 3: You're partners, right, yes, communication.

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Speaker 6: And also just the transparency right of being able to

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Speaker 6: see what comes in and out and save for joint

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Speaker 6: goals together.

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Speaker 5: I mean, we talk about this.

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Speaker 6: There's, of course there might be reasons why you don't,

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Speaker 6: but there's no question that all that's gonna work.

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Speaker 4: It's going to work at all the data points too,

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Speaker 4: that your relationship will work out better in general and

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Speaker 4: financially if you are taking a team approach to your finances. Imagine,

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Speaker 4: you know, playing the same game on two separate fields.

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Speaker 4: That's insane. What are you doing here? But there is

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Speaker 4: one thing regardless of how you set it up, and

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Speaker 4: I think in practice we always encourage clients to do

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Speaker 4: what works for them. But the thing you need to

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Speaker 4: have is transparency. You want to have your own individual count.

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Speaker 4: You want to have your own individual count. You want

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Speaker 4: to chop up the expenses. By the way, that's scales

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Speaker 4: horribly when you start bringing family into Yeah, what are

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Speaker 4: you gonna do? Hey twenty five percent of the formula

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Speaker 4: because they make twenty five percent of the household income

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Speaker 4: for the baby. This isn't this is crazy stuff. But

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Speaker 4: if you have transparency and everyone has access to each

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Speaker 4: other's bank accounts, and you're doing these reviews and everyone

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Speaker 4: knowes where everything is, sure, I could see pathways for

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Speaker 4: that working. But again I don't, and we would all

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Speaker 4: agree this is not the most effective way to manage

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Speaker 4: a household financial situation.

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Speaker 6: And what we found in speaking to so many relationship

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Speaker 6: coaches and couples therapists and psychologists is that this money,

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Speaker 6: this money topic actually translates to couple's therapy as well.

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Speaker 6: The idea of yours, mine and ours. No one is

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Speaker 6: saying that you need to come together as some homogeneous

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Speaker 6: blob and now you're just one person and all your

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Speaker 6: assets are.

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Speaker 4: All your goals are the same.

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Speaker 6: Cold you are supposed to maintain your individuality and have

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Speaker 6: individual goals whatever that may mean. If that could mean

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Speaker 6: individual financial goals, we take no issue with that. Yours,

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Speaker 6: mine and ours, it's the same in couple's work.

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Speaker 2: Coming up, we continue our conversation with Heather and Doug Bonaparte,

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Speaker 2: authors of the book Money Together, talking about writing a

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Speaker 2: book as a team.

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Speaker 3: I'm Barry Rittults.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 3: I'm Barry rid Halts.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My

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Speaker 2: guests today are Heather and Doug Ponapart. They are the

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Speaker 2: authors of the book Money Together, How to find Fairness

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Speaker 2: in your relationship and become an unstoppable financial team. So

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Speaker 2: communication and transparency pretty straightforward and with a little hindsight obvious.

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Speaker 2: What was the biggest surprise? What did couple say to

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Speaker 2: you where you kind of looked across each other and said,

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Speaker 2: what the hell is that about? Like?

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Speaker 3: What shocked you?

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Speaker 4: Heather would always say, and I would agree with her.

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Speaker 4: Often the things that shocked us were the things that

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Speaker 4: were not being said. For example, you would ask a

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Speaker 4: very forward question, or rather you would pick up do

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Speaker 4: a lot of this so zoom, you'd pick up body language.

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Speaker 4: You would see one partner zoning out or spacing out

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Speaker 4: or not engaging. So those were all tells that there

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Speaker 4: was something greater going on on that particular topic.

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Speaker 2: So sort what sort of topics in gender that sort

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Speaker 2: of response? Is it the full spectrum? Or were there

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Speaker 2: things that were like I could imagine credit card debt

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Speaker 2: and reckless spending being an issue, that's obvious.

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Speaker 3: What surprised you.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 6: Where I saw this come up and I and I

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Speaker 6: it always caused me to kind of tilt my head

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Speaker 6: and want to know more was when you would see

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Speaker 6: one spouse it was typically a man who was running

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Speaker 6: his own business or an entrepreneur, and it really felt

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Speaker 6: like it was his show and the risks that he

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Speaker 6: were to be taking, and this happened more than once.

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Speaker 6: Felt like they really did not consider the family as

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Speaker 6: a whole. It fell very very much like, well, this

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Speaker 6: is my plan and if it doesn't work, burn it

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Speaker 6: all to the ground.

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Speaker 5: And you could.

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Speaker 6: See his wife sitting next to him like a ghast

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Speaker 6: but silent le aghast, Like you could see that it

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Speaker 6: was like she's like, you're right, like this this is

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Speaker 6: his ride and we are all I would say, along

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Speaker 6: with it, but being held hostage by it.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 6: And that that was where we saw this, the silence

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Speaker 6: and the body language play in. And I've said, Doug,

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Speaker 6: like we interviewed a couple folks who like had been

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Speaker 6: in bankruptcy for business ideas of theirs and that's fine,

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Speaker 6: but like the just the the lack of accountability to

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Speaker 6: the rest, to his partner and to his children, and

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Speaker 6: just saying well, and I'll try again, and and I'll

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Speaker 6: keep trying again.

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Speaker 5: Like what kind of roller coaster are you bringing your

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Speaker 5: family on?

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Speaker 6: If she doesn't feel like she has a voice to

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Speaker 6: even be part of this discussion that we're happening to.

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Speaker 4: Seeing someone without agency is not a good thing to

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Speaker 4: look at. It doesn't look good. And you can see

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Speaker 4: it if you're asking the right questions or you're a

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Speaker 4: financial professional and looking at that situation. Yeah, it's pretty ugly.

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Speaker 2: And I have to ask about this, since we were

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Speaker 2: talking earlier about dividing some household work and responsibility.

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Speaker 3: How did you do this work together? How did each

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Speaker 3: of you contribute? You work together as writing together a

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Speaker 3: different experience.

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Speaker 6: It's a journey, It was a journey barrier something. So

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Speaker 6: writing is a huge part of my life. I was

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Speaker 6: a journalism major in undergrad There was a very long

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Speaker 6: time of my life where I had only hoped to

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Speaker 6: get back to a moment like this where I could

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Speaker 6: use my words and my storytelling ability and my question

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Speaker 6: asking ability, which was hone three years as a lawyer

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Speaker 6: to write something like this, to find a way to

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Speaker 6: help people through my writing. So we always kind of

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Speaker 6: knew that I would be taking the lead when it

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Speaker 6: came to writing the words on the page of this book.

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Speaker 5: But Douglas and I.

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Speaker 6: Sat together on ninety percent of these interviews of the couples,

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Speaker 6: many of the experts, and the way that we would

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Speaker 6: do this is we'd have like a big picture meeting.

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Speaker 6: We would talk through different chapters. Eventually they all fell

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Speaker 6: into the five sections of the book, and then I

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Speaker 6: would draft it and I would put it to him

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Speaker 6: and I would say, does this one make sense.

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Speaker 5: From a practitioners standpoint?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 6: Are we covering enough of the basis from a practitioners standpoint?

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Speaker 6: And two from a male lens. We wanted to write

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Speaker 6: a book. I think one of the greatest challenges in

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Speaker 6: writing this book was not us working together. We've worked

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Speaker 6: together in many different ways over the course of our careers,

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Speaker 6: but how do we write something that resonates with all genders.

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Speaker 2: So I know Doug's voice, which is kind of snarky

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Speaker 2: and funny, and I got the sense that you did

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Speaker 2: most of the writing in this at least in terms

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Speaker 2: of I don't want to say feminine, but it's a

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Speaker 2: gentle sensitive, the right word like empathetic, empathetic tone, which

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Speaker 2: I don't get from Doug's tweets. No, but here's the

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Speaker 2: the more interesting question. When you guys went through the

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Speaker 2: whole process of drafting and editing and writing.

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Speaker 3: The book, did it change it all?

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Speaker 2: How you guys talked about money with each other, how

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Speaker 2: you thought about it, Like reading the book might affects

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Speaker 2: on people. How did writing the book affect you too

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Speaker 2: as a married couple.

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Speaker 5: Oh, my goodness, in profound way, in profound ways, in

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Speaker 5: so many ways.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I will tell you that some of the

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Speaker 6: couples we interviewed completely change my perspective on what it.

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Speaker 5: Means to have enough.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, really, and that it was these were perspective shifting

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Speaker 6: relationships that we've made with some of these folks.

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Speaker 3: Give give us an example.

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Speaker 6: Well, on one hand, we interviewed many couples who objectively

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Speaker 6: on paper, live a very different socioeconomic life than we do.

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Speaker 5: They live in a lower cost of living area, they make.

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Speaker 6: It work on a lot less, and they they have love,

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Speaker 6: they have family, they have faith, they have a roof

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Speaker 6: over their head and they have enough. We asked every

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Speaker 6: couple that we interviewed, do you have enough? And the

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Speaker 6: answer said so much. And they gave us such perspectives,

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Speaker 6: so like, there are couples that on paper are living

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Speaker 6: a very different life than we are, you know, objectively

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Speaker 6: of less privilege. And they just were so happy and

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Speaker 6: content and proud of where they were. And I think

444
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 6: sometimes when you're an ambitious I'm dune and I are.

445
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 4: Both we'll flip it around. Right. We interviewed a lot

446
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,719
Speaker 4: of people who are highly successful entrepreneurial building their second

447
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 4: maybe third business, and we asked that same question, don't

448
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 4: have enough? It was never enough. Tears really too when

449
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 4: they realize like, hey, we just reflected on all this

450
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 4: amazing stuff you did. You know, you're telling us you

451
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 4: don't have enough. And then kind of that moment that

452
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 4: pause where they realize like, oh my god, what is

453
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 4: my enough? Or they look at I mean, it ran deep.

454
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 4: Sometimes the family they didn't start the second child, they

455
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 4: maybe didn't have the time, they didn't get with their

456
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 4: spouse to enjoy something in their life.

457
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 6: I think that maybe one of the greatest things we

458
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 6: learned in it, and it made its way into the book.

459
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 6: Not only through those conversations, but we had conversations with

460
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 6: folks who were dealing with life threatening sickness or terminal illness.

461
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 6: And we realize that time is the greatest currency that

462
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 6: we have. Of course, and I know we can say it,

463
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 6: but to really believe it and feel it, and I

464
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 6: think that.

465
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 5: We embody that now in my life.

466
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 3: Let me float a theory at you about enough.

467
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 2: I think if you're in middle class or upper middle

468
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 2: class or lower middle class, the range is pretty tight.

469
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 2: Like upper middle class is a lawyer.

470
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 3: And accountant making a couple hundred grand.

471
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 2: Bottom of that group is somebody in civil service making

472
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 2: forty to fifty sixty grand. That's the range. Once you're

473
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 2: in the top ten to one point one percent, it's

474
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: from a million a year to billions. And no matter

475
00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 2: how much money you have, there's always a tier above

476
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 2: it that seems to be gee. You know, if I

477
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 2: just made another million dollars a year, I could fly

478
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 2: private from succession.

479
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 5: Didn't Tom say that? In succession?

480
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, Tom says it's a greg oh five million, you know, yes,

481
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 4: you know the worst kind of rich. There is not

482
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 4: enough to retire, you know, too much to do nothing.

483
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 4: You know whatever, too much to do nothing, not enough

484
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 4: to retire. Yeah, you know I love that show. But

485
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 4: going back to what this process did for us in

486
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 4: our relationship, you have tone, and I will chime in

487
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 4: and say for me personally and selfishly the amount of

488
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 4: work that needed to be put into myself in order

489
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 4: to Because this book is a product of major life

490
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 4: decisions Heather and I made three and a half years

491
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 4: ago to leave thirteen years of being a corporate attorney,

492
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 4: which was the very reason that stability, the benefits, the

493
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 4: sal That was the stability I needed to grow and

494
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 4: be the entrepreneur.

495
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 2: And I have to interrupt you. I have the exact

496
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 2: same experience. My wife was a teacher for thirty five years.

497
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 2: The firm launched in twenty thirteen. I didn't feel like

498
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: it was a risk, but at the very least, hey,

499
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:19,959
Speaker 2: healthcare is covered.

500
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 4: Yep, all these.

501
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 2: Things you don't have to worry about. And I had

502
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: the conversation with my wife, are you okay? First of all,

503
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: changing careers from a lawyer to finance, but then hey,

504
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: I know I'm making a decent salary, but I want

505
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 2: to go do this on my own. I think there's

506
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 2: an opportunity here, and she was like, go for it.

507
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 4: Not to spoil the book, but I got very comfortable

508
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:46,719
Speaker 4: after having reached certain goals in building the firm that

509
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 4: I probably would have kept feeling comfortable and having how

510
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 4: the continue being an attorney at her job forever.

511
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 6: Burying the lead here. Yes, that in that moment in

512
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 6: time was awesome. The time that we had two very

513
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 6: small children hit COVID hit, when we had an eleven

514
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 6: month old and a.

515
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 3: Four year old stuck at home.

516
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 4: That's full time.

517
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 6: I'm working a corporate job, corporate legal job in a

518
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 6: GC's office of a fortune hundred company from home, taking

519
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 6: care of our two children, and also moonlighting is Doug's

520
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 6: business associate for the firm which I've basically helped to

521
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:21,719
Speaker 6: build from the ground up.

522
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 4: There's never been a day that I haven't done that.

523
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 4: She wasn't my co pilot helping me make critical decisions.

524
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 4: I was working, I was working three.

525
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 6: Jobs, and I was being stretched so thin that I

526
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 6: felt like I had completely lost myself in trying to

527
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 6: stay above water. And there was a moment where we said,

528
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 6: you know, we formed this whole cruise ship of our

529
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 6: life around servicing the risk that you were taking and

530
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 6: starting this firm.

531
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 5: But when is it about me again?

532
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: So let's let's talk a little bit about her, the

533
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 3: stories from your marriage.

534
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 2: And I have to ask, it's all narrative, no spreadsheets.

535
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 2: Why did you decide to tell this story in a

536
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: narrative format.

537
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 6: There's been too there's enough books on budgeting and spreadsheets tons,

538
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 6: enough people have tried to do it, and also.

539
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 4: Also also a perfect budget. It's not going to solve

540
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 4: much for the dynamics of your relationship with someone.

541
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 5: That's right.

542
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 6: There's a reason that folks have not read this book before,

543
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 6: and it's because doing this stuff is emotional work, it's

544
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 6: personal work. It requires understanding stories and hearing things you

545
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 6: may not want to hear. That goes way, way, way

546
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 6: deeper than the numbers. So we wanted to do something

547
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 6: that we felt like would really uncover the things that

548
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 6: weren't being said, Like, there was so many invisible moments

549
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 6: that I hope we made visible in this book.

550
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 3: So you bring a lot of therapists and psychologists and.

551
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 2: Couples counselors into the book. The question that was running

552
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 2: through my head as I was going through that is, Hey,

553
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: at what point should any couple get professionals will help,

554
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 2: be it working with a financial planner or go into

555
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 2: a couple's therapy or a shrink to help them work

556
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: out their emotional issues.

557
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, you know, probably self serving statement here. I'm

558
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 4: all along on people using professionals to help them find

559
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 4: the time and the space and the agency to talk

560
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 4: about things that need to be discussed. But you know,

561
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 4: there's never a bad time. I think if you can

562
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 4: first recognize that you're going to need help finding the space,

563
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 4: finding the time right. Self starting is for me personally,

564
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 4: one of the hardest things that I struggle with, so

565
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 4: I'm always open to finding people who can help me

566
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 4: do that. But I think practically speaking, if you are

567
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 4: both wanting to improve and not being able to get

568
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 4: past step one, like every conversation you're having, Hey, let's

569
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 4: sit down and have our money date, our conversation, and

570
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 4: every time you've attempted to do that has resulted in

571
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 4: a fight or are.

572
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 6: You avoiding it for two months afterwards you didn't get anywhere.

573
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 4: Or you're not developed. What we want you to do

574
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 4: is develop a practice around talking about money with your partner.

575
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 4: To Heather's point, it's been eight months you were supposed

576
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 4: to talk three months after that first one. You're not

577
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 4: creating practice and discipline and consistency. If this is happening

578
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 4: you over and over again and the frustration, is there

579
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 4: time to start finding other solutions. Maybe outsourcing that to

580
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 4: a professional is the way to go. That could be

581
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 4: a financial professional, that could be a therapist, that could

582
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 4: be a marriage counselor or a financial therapist.

583
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 6: I mean, there are some folks that are carrying such

584
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 6: deeply rooted shame around money into their relationship. That's not

585
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 6: something your partner can unwind by themselves.

586
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 4: It's not their job to fix it. E.

587
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,959
Speaker 3: You talk about money stories that people bring into a

588
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 3: marriage or relationship, what are some of the ones that

589
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: you know really resonated with you.

590
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 6: The stories that we heard, Yeah, you know, I think

591
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 6: stories that were steeped in people's culture, the cultural messages

592
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 6: that they brought into their relationship. There was a woman

593
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 6: from Taiwan who who received a higher education here in

594
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 6: the US, and she brought into her marriage these scripts

595
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 6: about what she could, what she felt like she deserved,

596
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 6: and what she was allowed to strive for in her life.

597
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,719
Speaker 3: The woman who had to go home to settle her

598
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 3: father's estate.

599
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 5: No, no different woman.

600
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 6: We heard a little bit about her story in the

601
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 6: culture chapter of the book, but I just remembered her

602
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 6: talking to us about how she was always taught not

603
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,719
Speaker 6: to live a small life, but to live like a

604
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 6: demure life, to not showcase her wealth, to not strive

605
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 6: for too much wealth. Perfect example, she graduated with a

606
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 6: grad degree from Columbia and she was waiting tables at

607
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 6: the restaurant down the street from her dorm, and she

608
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 6: was eating the leftovers off people's plates. She felt like

609
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 6: that was what she deserved. Like these are stories that

610
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 6: she carried into her relationship and trying to find a

611
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 6: way to like marry those messages with one somebody else's,

612
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 6: but to to like build a life that reflects both

613
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 6: of your values when you're kind of questioning what place

614
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 6: those values even have in your life, right, So somebody

615
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 6: one of the financial therapists that we spoke to, my

616
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 6: friend Asia Evans, I remember she said, people who carry

617
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 6: that into their adult relationship have to be asked, are

618
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 6: the circumstances in which you were taught those things actually

619
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 6: even present in your life today? And if you're answering

620
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 6: that question, No, well, there's stuff that needs to change.

621
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 2: So how do you have couples that have never really

622
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: had this money conversation? How do you have them take

623
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: the first step?

624
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 3: Where should they be beginning?

625
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, so we are very long on We call them

626
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 4: money dates, you can call them whatever you like, but

627
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 4: you have to have a form in which you first

628
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 4: are sitting down to discuss things relating to your financial life.

629
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 4: And we talk about the best practices of having to

630
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 4: do this right. You don't start with the numbers. Typically

631
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 4: that's a great way to get someone to flee the

632
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 4: scene right then and there.

633
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 6: And that's why at the end of each section in

634
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 6: the book we offer a list of like eight to

635
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:07,719
Speaker 6: ten conversation starters.

636
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 5: You don't need to do them all at once, you

637
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 5: don't even need to do them all ever, But the.

638
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 6: Point being conversation starters on how we start to learn

639
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 6: a little bit more about what's bothering the other person,

640
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 6: what they're carrying into the rem.

641
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 4: Sure, and what you do here instead of focusing on

642
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 4: numbers and talking about here's another one you don't want

643
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 4: to do, talk about what went wrong this quarter or

644
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 4: what's not working? Flip both those things around. What did work.

645
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 4: What are the wins you should be celebrating. We want

646
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 4: to build momentum here, talk about the goals that you

647
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 4: both share. I know if I say, hey, can we

648
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 4: talk about that vacation we want to go on. That

649
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 4: chair's pulling right up. We're sitting down, and I got

650
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 4: a nice way to then talk about the budget and

651
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 4: get into the numbers. Right. We almost do this categorically backwards.

652
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 4: And what we need to do is understand the rule

653
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 4: book for creating those consistent conversations that we need to

654
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 4: be having regularly. Little things, time and place matter right

655
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 4: at family rush hour, the time the kids come home

656
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 4: from school to just shy of going to bed, This

657
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 4: is probably the absolute worst time to conduct anything having

658
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 4: to do with our lives, let alone our financial lives.

659
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 5: You love that that was your favorite time to talk

660
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 5: about money.

661
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 4: I would one out of my three o'clock appointment when

662
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 4: we were marooned in our house, Heather, guess what, and

663
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 4: just like kids throwing food all over the place. One kid,

664
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 4: She's like, what do you got for me? Doug? This

665
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 4: is a great time to talk about this. It was

666
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 4: the worst geddy hanging out. Yes, she would return the

667
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 4: favor we're exhausted. It's ten thirty at night. She wants

668
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 4: to get into all the serious stuff. Where gas, I'm like,

669
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 4: I can't. I can't even keep my eyes open, let

670
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 4: alone follow along. So time and place matter. What do

671
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 4: you like to do together? Can you carve that out,

672
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 4: put it on the calendar, set the reminder, preschedule those meetings.

673
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 4: Do stuff you like to do. So I say, can't

674
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 4: wait to go do that? And you're not canceling that.

675
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 4: These are little things that when you build a practice

676
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 4: around them, go a very long way. Because if you're

677
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 4: doing this quarterly, and we suggest you do speak comprehensively

678
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 4: or not the data you're going to talk day to

679
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 4: day about money, week to week about money. We're talking

680
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 4: comprehensive view of your financial life on a quarterly basis.

681
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 4: That's not a lot of cracks at that. During the year, right,

682
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 4: you're getting four. Great, we now can divide by four.

683
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 4: So over multiple years, right, two years, eight, twelve, com

684
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 4: by four here, that's not a lot, but it's going

685
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 4: to take a very long time. These are long games.

686
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 4: Do you go to the gym one time after not

687
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 4: working out and find yourself in the best shape of

688
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 4: your life, No, you will be sore. Go to the

689
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 4: gym four times a week for six months. I can

690
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 4: almost guarantee you will be in the best shape of

691
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 4: your life. Do these quarterly meetings. Over three years, you

692
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 4: should have this figured out and you should be getting

693
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 4: there with your partner.

694
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 2: I love this quote from one of the chapter titles.

695
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 2: Being prepared is better than trying to predict what will happen.

696
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: Is that preparation, is that planning. Is this all part

697
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 2: of the same concept of getting people to talk having

698
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 2: them focus on this.

699
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 5: Absolutely.

700
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 6: I think that one of the hardest things for people

701
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 6: to do is except that we do don't know what's

702
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 6: going to happen, right, And I spent years dealing in

703
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 6: risk for work, and I think it's just really hard

704
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 6: to accept that you could do everything right and things

705
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 6: still may not pan out the way that you wanted

706
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 6: them to. But when we embrace that, we embrace that

707
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 6: there's ten different ways to get to the goal you want,

708
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 6: not just the one that you guys locked in on

709
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 6: five years ago and you hope this was the one

710
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 6: way we would get there, Because disappointment looks for space

711
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 6: closest to home, right, So if you're not making it there.

712
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 6: You're not those expectations aren't being met. We can't take

713
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 6: those five steps to get to that one financial goal.

714
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 6: I think you're taking it out of one another. You're

715
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 6: ginning to resent one another. But when you embrace this

716
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 6: idea that life is fickle, things are unexpected. We don't

717
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,439
Speaker 6: know what's going to be required of us next year.

718
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 6: We don't know whose job is going to be stable

719
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 6: two years from now. Even though it feels great today,

720
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 6: everything's gravy today. We don't know two years from now.

721
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 6: When you embrace that idea of flexibility, fluidity, and being

722
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 6: nimble in your relationship, you're able to work better together

723
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 6: as a team and pick up slack for one another

724
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 6: when you need each other.

725
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 4: Do you want to know? You know when people say, oh,

726
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,919
Speaker 4: enjoy the journey. You know you'll get to the end goal,

727
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 4: but enjoy the journey. The people that are capable of

728
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 4: actually enjoying whatever journey they're on are the ones that

729
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 4: have put themselves inflexible enough of a situation that when

730
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 4: life will never really hit you across the phase, I

731
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 4: guarantee you it will. It does it every single time.

732
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 4: Those who are more proactive in their response versus those

733
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 4: who are reacting and running around as if this is

734
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,479
Speaker 4: the worst thing that ever happened. Those are the people

735
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 4: that are enjoying their journey. Hey, we knew something, you know,

736
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 4: something wild was going to take place. We have a

737
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 4: plan for that. Let's go well, great, change it up,

738
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 4: great example from our own lives.

739
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 6: We always knew that someday I had hoped to work

740
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 6: at the firm, and that we were going to do

741
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 6: our business together.

742
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 5: But the time in which that came about was because.

743
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 6: My corporate job very pretty suddenly wanted us back in

744
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 6: the office four days a week. It kind of came

745
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 6: out of the blue. We weren't prepared for it from

746
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 6: a childcare standpoint, and instead of you know, we could

747
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 6: have solved for it. We could have solved for it.

748
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 6: I could have gotten a babysitter, I could have gone back.

749
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 6: We looked at each other and we said, is this

750
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 6: the moment to accelerate this goal that we've always had?

751
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 6: Do we take this as a sign from the universe.

752
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 6: It was a little it was a little backwards from

753
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 6: what we were planning. We thought we had a couple

754
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 6: more years of runway before we would take this leap together,

755
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 6: but we took it and you know what, like it

756
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 6: was unexpected, but it worked out.

757
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 5: For now.

758
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 6: You know, everything's for now because we don't know what

759
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 6: two years from now will bring.

760
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 2: Huh, really really interesting. I mentioned there's a lot of

761
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: narrative letter storytelling in the book, but there was a

762
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: data point jumped right out of the book and grabbed me.

763
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 2: Fifteen percent or more of marriages today involve a prenuptial agreement.

764
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 2: Twenty five years ago that was less than five percent.

765
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a shocking change. What's behind it? Why

766
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 2: has this changed so much?

767
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 6: I think that there's lots of ways to obtain a

768
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 6: prenup now. I mean there's even companies now that are

769
00:37:58,600 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 6: offering more of a.

770
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 4: Prefect their platforms for this. Right, there are plots solid

771
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 4: for a prenup. But yeah, but now we've made it. Yeah,

772
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 4: we've made it frictionless.

773
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 6: You took the word out of my mouth. This has

774
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 6: become a frictionless process.

775
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 3: For app you through it.

776
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, there's several but.

777
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 6: I think also the way that millennials feel about prenups

778
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 6: is that they're starting I think also this is anecdotal.

779
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 6: I don't have any data to back this up. But

780
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 6: I think a lot of us are products of divorce.

781
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 6: I think you have you have a generation, right, you

782
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 6: have a generation aging into adulthood and to marriages where

783
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 6: we've seen our parents.

784
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 4: Half millennials have watched their parents, you know, go through divorce,

785
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 4: and they're saying, well, I don't want to witness or

786
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 4: be a part of what I just saw them go through.

787
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 6: And I think so much now people understand that a

788
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 6: prenup is not setting your marriage up to fail. It

789
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 6: is outlining expectations for certain situations happening.

790
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 5: It's just a contract, right.

791
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 6: It can also outline certain expectations for during the course

792
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 6: of your marriage. It doesn't have to just be limited

793
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 6: to the dissolution of your marriage. And I think that

794
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 6: our generation in particular is very u is very keen

795
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 6: on opportunities to have our expectations managed, even with the

796
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 6: people that we love the most.

797
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: So there's a quote in the book that I've kind

798
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 2: of never really thought about, but you made me think

799
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 2: about it. Quote when you marry into money, the privilege

800
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: might come with strings attached.

801
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, explain that absolutely. So speaking of expectations here,

802
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 4: So when you're married in the person who is marrying

803
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 4: in a family of you know, substance or wealth, right,

804
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 4: you're probably going to get to experience a number of

805
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 4: things that are a product of the family that you've

806
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 4: married into. It could be vacations, it could be here's

807
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 4: your house or a down payment on your house, and

808
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 4: you would think, well, that's really wonderful. Go give your

809
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 4: in laws, you know, a hug and a kiss for.

810
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 5: That, and it is really wonderful.

811
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 4: It is, yes, it is, it is, but I hear

812
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 4: a butt co But in many cases, this sets up

813
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 4: expectations now that this family has for this person. It

814
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 4: could be how they raise their kids. It could be

815
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 4: how you act and behave on vacations, how you spend

816
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 4: the idea that maybe your financial household isn't even your

817
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 4: financial household, it's there, So where's your agency? Where's your independence?

818
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 4: It sets up a lot of what ifs? Right, what

819
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 4: if this doesn't work out, where does that leave me?

820
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 4: What if I might lose my husband due to a

821
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 4: really sad state of affairs, then what am I going

822
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 4: to be supported? So setting expectations around this is critical

823
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 4: to the married and otherwise they're going to through the

824
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 4: entirety of their marriage, find themselves asking what if and

825
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 4: will I be okay? It's not a great way to

826
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 4: go into a long term committed relationship.

827
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 5: And I think some of this is really difficult to

828
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 5: talk because you're not just yes.

829
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 6: You can set certain expectations in terms of the mechanics

830
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 6: of some of these things, but like some of this is,

831
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 6: you have to observe how is your spouse with his parents.

832
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 6: How much have they financially supported him or her over

833
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 6: the years. What level of control have you observed them

834
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 6: trying to exert over that adult child of theirs in

835
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 6: exchange for the wealth and generosity that they're giving you.

836
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 5: Your family. We've seen it. We've all seen it. I

837
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 5: think you know you wrote.

838
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 2: Write in the book about and I have it all caps.

839
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 2: The family sort of a succession like wealthy family that

840
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 2: wants to control everything, control the relationship. They're holding all

841
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: the cash and they're manipulating everybody to get what they want,

842
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 2: not just outside in the world of whatever acquisitions are

843
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 2: going on, but within the family dynamics itself.

844
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 4: How do you deal with that? It's not easy. It

845
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 4: is not easy, And we keep coming back the obvious

846
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 4: answer of communication, transparency. It does require the person you

847
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 4: are marrying into the family member that you're marrying. You

848
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 4: have to find a way to become transparent and open

849
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 4: and honest about your relationship with them. This is not

850
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 4: the time to just sit there quiet and let this

851
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 4: happen to you. You have to be able to advocate

852
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 4: for yourself in some way because it is your life

853
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 4: and it's going to be a life that you share

854
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 4: together with someone. These are probably uncomfortable questions and conversations,

855
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 4: but what's more uncomfortable is when you don't address them

856
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 4: and something happens five ten years down the road, or

857
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 4: you have two three kids. You cannot put the toothpaste

858
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 4: back in the tube at this point.

859
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 5: And it's not to say that you should not accept

860
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 5: the generosity, right.

861
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 6: This is a wonderful thing, and there's many benevolent parents

862
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 6: that just want to see their child and their child's

863
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 6: spouse and their family succeed, and they want to offer

864
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 6: that generosity during the course of their life.

865
00:42:58,280 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 5: It can be a beautiful thing.

866
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 6: But having the conversations up front about what this means

867
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 6: do they want to have If they want to offer

868
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 6: to help you buy a house, do they believe that

869
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 6: they're entitled to help you look for that house. Are

870
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 6: there stipulations on around where that house needs to be?

871
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 6: Does it need to be in the town in which

872
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 6: you're the which the adult child grew up in? Are

873
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 6: there certain expectations that if they want to help pay

874
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 6: for the grandchild's college? Are there stipulations there as well?

875
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 6: But I think that one way to also, you know,

876
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 6: kind of pose and gauge how enmeshed the adult child

877
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 6: is with his parents is saying I would like for

878
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 6: us to have our own financial advisor. I would like

879
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 6: for us to grow our independent wealth as a family.

880
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 6: How do you feel about that? Say that to your spouse?

881
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: How do these big wealth gaps and it doesn't have

882
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 2: to be succession, it could just be reasonable wealth gaps?

883
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 2: How do they distort the power dynamics inside the relationship?

884
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 2: Forget the relationship of the couple to the in laws

885
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 2: or the parents within couples, How does that dynamic play out?

886
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 3: And what should be done about these sort of gaps?

887
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 4: Oh?

888
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 6: Well, I think that privilege cuts both ways, and that's

889
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 6: what we liked it. We write about privilege and the

890
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 6: many angles of it so that you can understand also,

891
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:22,399
Speaker 6: like your socioeconomic conditions could have been great, but your

892
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 6: perception of them is what matters. We can't say, oh,

893
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 6: you grew up with more money than me, so you

894
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 6: had it easier, yet a silver spoon in your mouth

895
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 6: and your life was gravy and I had a terrible life,

896
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 6: and so none of your feelings around it with your

897
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 6: family matter.

898
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 5: That's something we dispel as well. Right, your story is

899
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 5: your story.

900
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 6: You don't know if you were partner who yes, may

901
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 6: have objectively grown up with greater privilege than you. You

902
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 6: don't know if they're carrying deep rooted expectations, like the

903
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 6: long shadow of the family name. It's that is a

904
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 6: heavy load to bear for some people. So I think

905
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 6: there are ways, like different ways this shows up in

906
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 6: a relationship. For another example would be like how that

907
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 6: privilege plays out in terms of your value use. You know,

908
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 6: what are you trying to accomplish together as a couple.

909
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,919
Speaker 6: That may not be something that if you didn't grow

910
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 6: if you didn't grow up with privilege. Maybe your goals

911
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 6: and expectations are are I don't want to say, more limited,

912
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 6: but maybe they're more proximate, Like I want to build

913
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,800
Speaker 6: a life that just involves not being strapped for cash,

914
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 6: us being able to afford at roof over our heads.

915
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 6: Then you have a partner who grew up with such

916
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 6: privilege they didn't even have to consider their salary when

917
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 6: they chose their career because they knew that there would

918
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 6: always be kind of this existential safety net available to them.

919
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 6: How do you marry those two, those two belief systems

920
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 6: together to kind of find a life that.

921
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 5: Can identify the meaning for both of you.

922
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 4: I would also add, in these situations, it's easier to

923
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 4: assume that these conversations will go down a road of

924
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 4: upsetting the family or something bad or negative. And I

925
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 4: just want for a minute to throw in the possibility

926
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 4: of it working out well, that a family would appreciate

927
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 4: the fact that their child and the person they're marrying

928
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 4: are forward thinking enough to make sure they're okay, that

929
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 4: everyone is comfortable. You know, the family isn't always ah

930
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 4: the evil rich family a lot of times. In fact,

931
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 4: I would argue, most of the times, this is all

932
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 4: out of love. This is all I love. And if

933
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 4: you don't approach and you don't ask, you'll never know.

934
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 4: We just assumed you were very happy with all this

935
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 4: wonderful stuff we've been doing for you and Ryan, we

936
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 4: didn't know it made you feel uncomfortable every time you

937
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 4: came on the cruise ship. Why didn't you say anything?

938
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 2: Coming up, we continue our conversation with Heather and Doug Bonaparte,

939
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 2: authors of the book Money Together, talking about writing a

940
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 2: book as a team.

941
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 4: I'm Barry Ritault.

942
00:46:48,520 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 3: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm

943
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 3: Barry Ridults.

944
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 2: You're listening to Masters and Business on Bloomberg Radio. My

945
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 2: guests today are Heather and Doug Ponapart. They are the

946
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 2: authors of the book Money Together, How to find fairness

947
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:22,399
Speaker 2: in your relationship and become an unstoppable financial teams. Last

948
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 2: pre nup question, I mean, it's a given that the

949
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 2: person who's marrying into the wealthy family should have their

950
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 2: own legal counsel. Is it fair for them to ask

951
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 2: the wealthy family to pay the bill for the lawyer?

952
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 4: Oh?

953
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 6: My goodness, I mean, I if you off the cuff,

954
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 6: I think it's fair. Okay, I think it's fair.

955
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 4: What's the worst that could happen?

956
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 5: What's the worst that can happen? In asking?

957
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 6: I think I think you prove a very good point

958
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 6: because again, like when we're talking about negotiating power.

959
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 3: And power diary can be giant.

960
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 6: You know, there's the lawyers who handle you know, Beyonce

961
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 6: and jay Z's prenup, and then there's Joe Schmoe down

962
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 6: the street and whatever. I don't think that it would

963
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 6: be unreasonable to ask that if we're entering into this

964
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 6: and that this is something that impacts not just me

965
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 6: and my spouse but also your family as well, that

966
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 6: maybe you'd be willing to subsidize.

967
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 5: A piece of this.

968
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 4: Heck of a way to broach the conversation by saying, Hey,

969
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 4: we've been doing all this work here pay the legal bill,

970
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 4: versus I want you to know we're going to do

971
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 4: some work here so everyone's comfortable we're taking care of

972
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 4: ourselves that you're comfortable. By the way, would you pay

973
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 4: the bill?

974
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: Very very different way you're phrasing it. So let's talk

975
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 2: a little bit about a state planning quote. People go

976
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 2: on a journey when they inherit money. I never really

977
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 2: thought of that, But explain what's the inheriting money journey?

978
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 4: Well, first and foremost, we love stats, right, Like, most

979
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 4: inheritances are five figure numbers.

980
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 2: Hey, grant yeah, book, the numbers you have, the median

981
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 2: was like forty five thousand dollars, but it's totally skew yeah,

982
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 2: by the very wealth inher.

983
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 3: One and the average person's inheritance is enough.

984
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

985
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, So then you have to ask yourself, So, what's

986
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 4: really being inherited here? What's really being transferred from you know,

987
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 4: the decedent to the children or the heirs. And typically

988
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 4: it's obviously memory is and the experiences, both good and

989
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 4: bad that end up in the possession of the of

990
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 4: the child.

991
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: Of the air.

992
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 6: There's a quote and I it's slipping my mind, but

993
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 6: it's something like inheritance. Inheritances are the numeric symbolic delivery

994
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,240
Speaker 6: of all you have left from someone.

995
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 5: And you wish you had more time, You wish you had.

996
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 6: More memories, You wish you had more moments and one

997
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 6: more chance for one more conversation. And so for people

998
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 6: that twelve thousand dollars as a bonus from your job

999
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 6: is very different from twelve thousand dollars from your mother.

1000
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 2: So let's let's talk about what I think is the

1001
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 2: most interesting trend I've seen in a state planning over

1002
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 2: the past few decades, which is.

1003
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 4: In giving the folks yep during lifetime.

1004
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 3: Doing this while you're alive so you can enjoy it.

1005
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love it. I love it. That was a

1006
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 4: big Wall Street Journal article a handful of years ago.

1007
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 4: I absolutely love it. I see it show up and

1008
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 4: practice quite a bit. Probably one of the nicer you know,

1009
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 4: boomer mechanics in a state planning that I've seen happen

1010
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 4: over the last few years. Yes, you should. You should

1011
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 4: get to create these experiences while you're alive, you know,

1012
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 4: and everybody can enjoy that. You see your hard working

1013
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 4: millennial children dealing with the high cost of home prices

1014
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 4: and they can't get ahead or settle down with their family,

1015
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 4: and you want to step in and do some gift

1016
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 4: things so they can afford it. I think it's probably

1017
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 4: one of the most beautiful things out there, which that

1018
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 4: happened to us here. It didn't happen all right. If

1019
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 4: you know, guys, if you know anyone, let us know.

1020
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 4: But you're seeing this trend emerge, and I'm seeing it

1021
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 4: show up in practice. It's really a beautiful thing. And

1022
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 4: also so sah. I don't know the particulars of these situations,

1023
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,320
Speaker 4: but good planning is good planning, you know, as a

1024
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 4: financial advisor, where the rubber meets the road, and all

1025
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 4: of the topics that we cover in comprehensive planning, estate

1026
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,399
Speaker 4: planning is the one. It's the biggest piece of all

1027
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 4: of it at the end of the day. And what

1028
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 4: you're doing here, it's about legacy. Right. So now you

1029
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 4: have children and you have their parents creating these experiences

1030
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 4: knowing they helped. Let me back up for a second,

1031
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 4: just to give you an idea of how I truly

1032
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 4: feel around the other way that this typically happens. It

1033
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 4: is we're not going to talk to our children about money.

1034
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 4: It's taboo. You know, you'll figure it out. Or the

1035
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 4: worst one, we don't want to burden them today with this.

1036
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 4: And it's so ironic.

1037
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 5: That's really ones I really do.

1038
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 4: Is it's so ironic because what you're going to do

1039
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 4: xactly is the exact opposite of what it is. You

1040
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 4: just said. You don't clue them into the estate planning.

1041
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 4: Now you're dead, and not only did you leave a

1042
00:51:58,160 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 4: burden too them.

1043
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 2: The whole estate process, oh you're a beneficiary. Or by

1044
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 2: the way, it's a lot of work. Even the best

1045
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 2: plans are a ton of work.

1046
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 4: And you see this all the time, like, oh man,

1047
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 4: my dad did a really good job playing this out

1048
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 4: five weeks of God, you know, it's it's insane while

1049
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 4: all of that, all of this is happening here and

1050
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 4: and it's just such a joke to take the line

1051
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 4: that I don't want to burden my kids and then

1052
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 4: literally burden them, you know, to no end, and you're dead.

1053
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 4: You don't even get to see you know, think, thanks Mom,

1054
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 4: thanks Dad. That was great. And it's a it's a disaster.

1055
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 4: It's a disaster. So that's how I truly feel about it.

1056
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 4: That's why these gifts during the lifetime I think are

1057
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:44,280
Speaker 4: just absolutely wonderful.

1058
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 6: But it just goes to show that it works both ways, right,

1059
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 6: Like we just spoke about the family where wealth, two

1060
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 6: things can be true. Wealth can be used to control people,

1061
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 6: and it can be used to show that you love

1062
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 6: someone and to create legacy and and and deepen the

1063
00:52:58,320 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 6: love that you have for your family.

1064
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 5: Two things can be true.

1065
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 2: So before I get to my favorite questions, I ask, well,

1066
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 2: my guests, I just have to ask what what are

1067
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 2: the other.

1068
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 3: Red flags we haven't gotten to?

1069
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 2: What do you think is the biggest issue that we

1070
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 2: just haven't spoken about over the past hour.

1071
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 6: Holding mistakes over your partner's head. A lot of people

1072
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 6: do a lot of foolish stuff early in their adult life.

1073
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 6: In your twenties, you make some mistakes. You carry a

1074
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 6: little bit of consumer debt for you, but you know,

1075
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 6: whatever happen, you yoload it in your twenties and you

1076
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 6: had ten grand in credit card debt. Then you you

1077
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 6: met your spouse. They helped you pay it off, and

1078
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 6: now all they ever talk about is how you're not

1079
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 6: good with money because because I helped you pay off

1080
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 6: your debt. So I guess my point is not getting

1081
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 6: over things that are just missteps, they're not mistakes in

1082
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 6: your life holding them over your spouse's head, because what

1083
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 6: that does is it erodes their confidence and it pulls

1084
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 6: them away from being a meaningful participant in their financial lives.

1085
00:53:59,000 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 3: Really really interesting.

1086
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 2: All right, let's jump into our favorite questions we asked

1087
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 2: all our guests, starting with and this is like our

1088
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 2: speed round.

1089
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 3: We only have five six minutes.

1090
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 1: Love it.

1091
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 3: Who were your mentors who helped shape your career?

1092
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 4: Give you a hot take? You know, Heather and I

1093
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 4: maybe to agree with me on this one. We really

1094
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 4: had a lack of mentors in the beginning of our career.

1095
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 4: We found ourselves really having to figure a lot out

1096
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,399
Speaker 4: for ourselves. And this isn't a flex er look out. Yeah,

1097
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 4: look what a big boy.

1098
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 5: We're in the market for mentors.

1099
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 6: So if anybody listening would like to be our individual

1100
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 6: mentors really love for me.

1101
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,720
Speaker 4: They came mid career into where we are today, friends

1102
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 4: of ours for sure, but early on it was it

1103
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 4: was lacking. I do view it as something where you know,

1104
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 4: it built me up, it built some character here. But

1105
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,879
Speaker 4: if I'm being honest, I really wish I had someone

1106
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 4: there to sit younger professional Doug down regularly and to

1107
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 4: save some time and effort.

1108
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 6: I had one woman, one female attorney who's was always

1109
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 6: one grade level above me and has been a driving

1110
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 6: force in my legal career and even brought me back

1111
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 6: to a job in a soft landing after a tough situation.

1112
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 5: So I had one mentor in my career.

1113
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 3: So you give her name if you want to give

1114
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 3: a shot.

1115
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 5: Her name's Julia.

1116
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,720
Speaker 3: Julia. Let's talk about books. What are some of your favorites?

1117
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:15,720
Speaker 3: What are you reading currently?

1118
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 5: You know, it's really hard I have to say, I

1119
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 5: love to read. But this past year, when you're writing

1120
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 5: a book, a book, it kills.

1121
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 3: You other than the research you're doing, there's no pleasure reading.

1122
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 6: Every book I read was a personal finance book. Although

1123
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 6: I love cultural commentary because again like Journalist's Brain. I

1124
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 6: read What Happened to Millennials by Charlie Wells, which I

1125
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 6: really enjoyed as somebody who.

1126
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 5: Oh it's he basically tells the story of.

1127
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 6: Where we were post nine to eleven through the eyes

1128
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:48,720
Speaker 6: to present day through four different folks like and follow

1129
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 6: them on their journey. It was just I thought it

1130
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 6: was a brilliant commentary on where we were and where

1131
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 6: we find ourselves, and it was it found a way

1132
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 6: to like frame it all very positively on our future,

1133
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 6: and I just I loved it. But I'm actually looking

1134
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 6: forward to reading more nonfiction or more fiction this year.

1135
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 6: And should I say it, I'm about to read the

1136
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 6: heated rivalry books. Rachel reads Rachel reads books.

1137
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 3: If you know you know I hear rivalry, I think

1138
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 3: of Doris Karnes Goodman.

1139
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 4: I don't know, Well, if you don't, if you know,

1140
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 4: you know, last book I read, I have to go fiction.

1141
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 4: I have to go sci fi. I have to escape

1142
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 4: the world of business and final house. You know, we

1143
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 4: write these books, and I know all our friends who

1144
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 4: write them as well, but I like to escape. Like,

1145
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 4: if I'm going to read, I'm going to enjoy it.

1146
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 3: You're talking to a sci fi guy.

1147
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 4: Hit me with long Overdue. I read snow Crash was

1148
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 4: the last one I read.

1149
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 3: Which, if you know, was the first read Neuromancer.

1150
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 4: No, no, not yet, but a little gig here. It's okay,

1151
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 4: I'm here for it, but you know your first uh

1152
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 4: you know, I'll call in the metaverse before the metaverse

1153
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 4: that that was really cool. Finally got it took me.

1154
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,879
Speaker 3: Can you remember which book the future is here? It's

1155
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 3: just not evenly distributed? Is that snow Crash?

1156
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 4: I don't think so. Okay, no, but that was great

1157
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 4: for a video game guy who always dreamed of a

1158
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 4: world that was, you know, alt reality. That was super cool.

1159
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 3: And I read I'm assuming you read Ready Player one right, No.

1160
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 4: I actually didn't have that. I haven't even watched the

1161
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 4: movie because I wanted because I wanted to read snow

1162
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 4: Crash before it.

1163
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 3: So I was flying on a plane and sat down

1164
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 3: with that book and we landed and I was done.

1165
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 4: Yeah that, Yeah, I'm told that. I'm told that today

1166
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 4: Simon for today, next flight Book?

1167
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, thirty seconds. What are you streaming or listening

1168
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:33,479
Speaker 3: to these days?

1169
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 6: Land Man?

1170
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 5: Awesome show, you have to watch it. The Pit of course,

1171
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 5: a little.

1172
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 3: Too grizzly, fair enough, was like watching like this fall Out.

1173
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 5: We watch a lot of sci fi.

1174
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:46,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, Fallout waiting.

1175
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 3: Have you guys seen Three Body Problems?

1176
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 4: I caught it?

1177
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 3: I didn't.

1178
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 4: We didn't go there. We love a lot of post

1179
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 4: apocalyptic We watched a lot of pos Silo Fallout. Those

1180
00:57:57,760 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 4: types of shows really really take us there.

1181
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 3: Try Three Buddy Problems. I think it's Apple TV. I

1182
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 3: don't remember that. It was really it was really worth seeing.

1183
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 2: Final two questions, what sort of advice would you give

1184
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 2: to a recent college grad interest in the career in

1185
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 2: fill in the blank journalism, legal practice of financial planning.

1186
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, for talking personal finance and financial planning. You're playing

1187
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 4: a long game here. Give yourself, Like, if you're going

1188
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 4: to figure out how to get this career, going figure

1189
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 4: out how to survive for like five to seven plus years.

1190
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 4: It's just going to take that kind of time to

1191
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 4: actually mature as a person in your life, So find

1192
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 4: out how to do that. Play long game. This isn't

1193
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 4: a one, two, three year learning curve. It's like a

1194
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 4: five to seven year learning curve.

1195
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 6: Keep a list of your wins, keep a running list

1196
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 6: of everything good you do and all the value that

1197
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 6: you bring to your organization. Carry that with you because

1198
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 6: being your own self advocate is more important now than ever.

1199
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 3: And I have heard women say that's especially important for them.

1200
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 2: Critical versus men, blundering to things full of sale, undeserved

1201
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 2: self confidence, and women often don't apply.

1202
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 3: Let me man explain sexism to you. Women.

1203
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 2: Also often, I've had a lot of women tell me

1204
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:15,439
Speaker 2: they haven't applied for things because they think I don't

1205
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 2: check every box out of ten.

1206
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 3: I have eight and a dude just like I have three.

1207
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 6: But how hard I can't tell you how many men

1208
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 6: I know have fallen up in their careers. Well, women

1209
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 6: have told themselves that they aren't qualified for a positions.

1210
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 6: So yes, keeping a running list and finding a way

1211
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 6: to art to really articulate package that and show your value.

1212
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 2: And our final question, what do you know about the

1213
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 2: world of financial planning, investing, couples.

1214
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 3: Money therapy today might have been useful. You know, back

1215
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 3: in twenty years ago when you guys were really first ramping.

1216
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 6: Up understanding that time and money are inextricably linked concepts

1217
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 6: and how we spend our time is a currency when

1218
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 6: we talk. So much of this work that we did

1219
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 6: is about how we allow for up equity at home

1220
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 6: to create greater sorry greater equity for women out.

1221
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 5: In the world in particular, and the link between time

1222
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 5: and money is critical.

1223
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 4: I love that fair doesn't mean equal. Okay, yeah, okay,

1224
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 4: solid fifty to fifty probably not a practical approach to

1225
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 4: everything you do in life. Find out what your split is.

1226
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 4: There are many couples out there who are happy with

1227
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,600
Speaker 4: eighty twenty seventy thirty. It works for them. What doesn't

1228
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 4: work is when you're not talking about it. To find

1229
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,919
Speaker 4: out what fairness is in your relationship. That has helped

1230
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 4: us out a great deal in the last fear.

1231
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 2: Guys, this has been absolutely fascinating. We have been speaking

1232
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 2: with Heather and Douglas Bonaparte, authors of the book Money Together.

1233
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 2: If you enjoy this conversation, well check out any of

1234
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 2: the six hundred we've done over the past twelve years.

1235
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 2: You can find those at iTunes, Spotify, Bloomberg YouTube, wherever

1236
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 2: you get your favorite podcasts.

1237
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 3: I would be remiss if I didn't thank the Crack.

1238
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 2: Staff that helps with these conversations to together each week.

1239
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 2: Alexis Noriega is my video producer. Jean Russo is my researcher.

1240
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 2: Anna Luke is my podcast producer.

1241
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 3: I'm Barry Ridholtz. You've been listening to Masters in Business

1242
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 3: on Bloomberg Radio