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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. It's Sunday, June fifteenth. Happy

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Speaker 2: Father's Day to all the great dads out there. We

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Speaker 2: have a stack night a headlines tonight. The jury is

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Speaker 2: finally deliberating. Will Karen Reid finally get her verdict this week?

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Speaker 2: I think it's going to be tomorrow. We are also

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Speaker 2: catching up on all things puff Daddy in the trial continues.

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Speaker 2: And then we have our special guest who will be

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Speaker 2: here all the time, the KT crew Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 2: the greatest forensics expert of all time, also the host

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Speaker 2: of Body Bags. He is joining us later in the

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Speaker 2: show and talking to us about Long Island, the Idaho

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Speaker 2: College murderers, the works, and all of that plus more.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Laidecker and I head up KAT Studios where

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Speaker 2: we make true crime podcasts and documentaries and I get

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Speaker 2: to do that every day with Courtney Armstraw and Body

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Speaker 2: Move In So Body Karen Reid, we're there.

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Speaker 3: Finally, finally. You think we're gonna have a verdict tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: I do, So I'm gonna I'm gonna go with late Tuesday,

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Speaker 3: early Wednesday.

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Speaker 4: That's your betods.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean you seem like it seems like very

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Speaker 3: black and white, right like you if you're not really up,

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Speaker 3: you know where you need to be by now there's

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Speaker 3: a problem, right, And I totally get you, I absolutely do.

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Speaker 3: If the jury comes back Monday, I think it's gonna

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Speaker 3: be not guilty all the way down the board, like

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Speaker 3: I really do. But I but I think there's gonna

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Speaker 3: be some contention. I think there's gonna be some people

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Speaker 3: in the jury room who have some questions, and I

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Speaker 3: think it could go because they think it a full

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Speaker 3: day Friday, right, They didn't get a full day.

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Speaker 4: They only had two hours under.

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Speaker 3: Flowers, right, So I think they need at least a

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Speaker 3: full day. So that's Monday and then most of Tuesday,

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Speaker 3: I think they need, if not all of Tuesday, and

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Speaker 3: then we'll hear something on Wednesday.

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Speaker 4: There's I think to the optics of that. Also, this has.

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Speaker 2: Been a long time coming Karen Reid's retrial. If you

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Speaker 2: haven't been following closely. Karen Reid. This is her second

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Speaker 2: trial for the death of her boyfriend John O'Keefe. She's

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Speaker 2: accused of basically running him over with her lexus in

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Speaker 2: the middle of the night and fleeing the scene in

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Speaker 2: the middle of a snowstorm under the influence of alcohol.

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Speaker 2: And look, she had a hung jury the first time.

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Speaker 2: This is the second round. She feels as though the

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Speaker 2: defense did a really great job on her behalf. So

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Speaker 2: she feels as though she's been well represented. And look,

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Speaker 2: at this point, it's the final stretch. It's in the

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Speaker 2: juror's hands.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I have to agree with her.

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Speaker 3: She has been well represented, and I think her defense

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Speaker 3: actually did a really great job. But I also will

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Speaker 3: say the prosecution did a great job with what they had.

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Speaker 3: I think the investigation itself, which you know though of

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Speaker 3: course the state that well, the prosecution doesn't really have

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Speaker 3: a huge pardon, you know, like they're not out on

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Speaker 3: the scene, you know, colecting samples with solo cups. Right,

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Speaker 3: it's not it's not the lawyers that are doing that, true.

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Speaker 3: But so yeah, Friday wrapped up, the jury started, there

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Speaker 3: was a swarm of reed supporters out in front. Like

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Speaker 3: you know, last the first trial, it seemed like there

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Speaker 3: was a constant surge of people, but this retrial there

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Speaker 3: hasn't been, you know, that big of a crowd. But

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Speaker 3: Friday we saw a big crowd. So that must have

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Speaker 3: been nice for Karen to see as she exited the courthouse.

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Speaker 4: You know, I obviously I love that.

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Speaker 3: Obviously she didn't testify, so that's really no big surprise.

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Speaker 3: But I kind of wanted to go Courtney, and I thought,

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Speaker 3: and you can tell me what you think about the

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Speaker 3: Stephanie Courtney, and I thought maybe we would go through

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Speaker 3: the highlights of each closing statement, like I'll do the

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Speaker 3: prosecution side, and Courtney would do, you know, the defensive side,

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Speaker 3: and we would maybe go.

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Speaker 5: To do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go because there are some really big ticket

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Speaker 2: items on either side. And frankly, you guys are legit divided.

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Speaker 2: So this is a fun exercise because it's authentic.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So one thing that really kind of put everything in

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Speaker 3: perspective for me in regards to the prosecution who it

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Speaker 3: was done by Prosecutor Hank Brennan. One of the things

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Speaker 3: that he said that really kind of brought everything home

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Speaker 3: for me was at how John's niece testified that John

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Speaker 3: would just walk away from arguments, like if him and

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Speaker 3: Karen were arguing, he would just like walk away, and

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Speaker 3: Karen would follow him room to room and just continue

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Speaker 3: to fight. Okay, that just kind of this goes to

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Speaker 3: my theory about what happened that night. So when he

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Speaker 3: said that, I was kind of like confirmation bias. Here

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Speaker 3: we go. It's working over time in my head right now,

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Speaker 3: because I really think that, you know, they were arguing

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Speaker 3: that night and things, you know, again, they were both

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Speaker 3: you know, wasted right and emotional, and I think either

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Speaker 3: he threw the whiskey glass at the tailgate or was

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Speaker 3: bending down because he dropped it and she was backing

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Speaker 3: up twenty four miles an hour, and either I don't

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Speaker 3: necessarily think she hit him, but I think he kind

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Speaker 3: of maybe got startled or you know, lost his balance something,

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Speaker 3: and that's what happened.

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Speaker 2: And she unknowingly, in your unknowingly regardless, she left, not

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Speaker 2: thinking she was leaving her boyfriend for dead in the snow,

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Speaker 2: but rather that she was just peeling out and he

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Speaker 2: was going up the driveway to see his buds, right,

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Speaker 2: and by all accounts she wanted to go home right.

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Speaker 4: She was for this night was done.

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Speaker 2: She was sick in and out with the friends, and

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Speaker 2: it had gone on for too long.

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Speaker 4: She wanted to go home right, and then he went,

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Speaker 4: you know. He argued that.

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Speaker 3: He argues that John O'Keefe was struck with the SUV

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Speaker 3: after a night of drinking and then she just like

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Speaker 3: abandoned him in the snow. He highlighted key evidence like

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Speaker 3: the tail like fragments again read's own words and voicemails

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Speaker 3: and text messages, you know, expressing her hatred for John

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Speaker 3: but again they were fighting right, and her significant impairment,

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Speaker 3: he mentioned, you know those he he referenced her own words,

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Speaker 3: he said, I don't She said, I don't think I

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Speaker 3: hit him, but I could have clipped him. In the

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Speaker 3: documentary series which they played for by the way, in court, that.

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Speaker 4: Was their big ending moment.

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Speaker 2: She regret that or not, but look, I know at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, she's being candid. And she's

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Speaker 2: also said to have said at the scene when discovering

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Speaker 2: his body, I killed him, or I hit him, I

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Speaker 2: hit him. I mean that has also been turned around

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Speaker 2: by the defense to say I didn't hit him. I

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Speaker 2: didn't hit him, and maybe that got lost in translation.

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Speaker 6: Also that it's and I will not hop in after

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Speaker 6: this on the prosecutions.

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Speaker 7: This is my time, cord time, but one thing.

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Speaker 6: But it also is a common trauma response of when

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Speaker 6: you are literally shocked to say things like it's my fault,

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Speaker 6: I do wherever it is anyway, that's it.

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Speaker 4: I know, I can, I can absolutely agree with that.

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Speaker 4: So I thought Hank did a great.

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Speaker 3: Job and in line with you know, the iPhone data

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Speaker 3: shows he wasn't in the house. The temperature the temperature

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Speaker 3: data on the iPhone, how it never you know, it

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Speaker 3: stayed consistent with him basically laying on top of it

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Speaker 3: all night. The tail light fragments from her lexus are

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Speaker 3: the ones that were found in the yard. You know,

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Speaker 3: her backing up at twenty four miles per hour literally

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Speaker 3: at the same time that his phone stopped moving for

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Speaker 3: the rest of the night. Combined with all that, I

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Speaker 3: believe Karen Read is guilty, and I believe the state

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Speaker 3: did as good as they could. But I think they're

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Speaker 3: going to find her not guilty.

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Speaker 4: And you think she'll go away till when No, I

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Speaker 4: don't think her life.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't think they're going to find her guilty.

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Speaker 4: I don't think.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that they've proved it beyond a reasonable doubt.

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Speaker 4: So you think she did it, but she'll get away

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Speaker 4: with it. I do, I do.

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Speaker 5: So.

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Speaker 6: We have heard the prosecution side the state arrests for

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Speaker 6: the defense. The closing argument was given by Alan Jackson.

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Speaker 6: I think he did an exemplary job. Body is making motions.

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Speaker 2: As Okay, did somebody just appear with the gavel?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Court is back in session. Continue, sorry, courtneyarmstets Okay. The

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Speaker 2: prosecution has.

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Speaker 6: Not proven their SUV collision theory beyond a reasonable doubt,

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Speaker 6: the injuries were not consistent with being hit by a car,

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Speaker 6: and in fact, no medical professional on either side, no

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Speaker 6: medical professional backs up the fact that John O'Keeffe was

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Speaker 6: hit by a car. That obviously includes the Commonwealth's medical examiner.

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Speaker 6: John's arm, which the prosecution expert alleges was hit by

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Speaker 6: a tail light, It was not bruised or broken. And

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Speaker 6: there was a really interesting moment in the closing arguments

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Speaker 6: where the defense said we had to dig up these

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Speaker 6: X rays of John's arm and they hadn't. He made

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Speaker 6: it seem like they were kind of trying to cover

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Speaker 6: it up. But bottom line, this arm that was allegedly

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Speaker 6: hit by a six thousand pound vehicle was not broken.

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Speaker 4: That is a shocker, a shocker to me. I just

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Speaker 4: don't believe he was hit with the SUV. I mean

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Speaker 4: to me, it's not a huge shocker. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: But why the cover.

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Speaker 6: But that because they thought it's the whole prosecution's case

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Speaker 6: that they were hit.

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Speaker 7: So that is what they are. That is what they are.

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Speaker 6: Stipulaight also brought up in closing arguments excuse me, taillight tampering.

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Speaker 6: So Nicholas Barrows testified about the damage to the tail

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Speaker 6: light and the fact that it was more extensive in

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Speaker 6: a photo taken at the police garage than it was

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Speaker 6: when he sees the vehicle at Karen's parents' house.

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Speaker 7: Okay, so that's that is a big deal.

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Speaker 6: Suspicious behavior from Brian Higgins from here to sundown. You know,

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Speaker 6: as the jurors, we've seen the surveillance of Higgins getting

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Speaker 6: aggressive with victim John O'Keeffe at the bar earlier that night,

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Speaker 6: and then one hour after Karen Reid left the scene

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Speaker 6: at one thirty am, then Brian Higgins was back down

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Speaker 6: at the Campton Police station doing paperwork question Mark.

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Speaker 7: There was so much.

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Speaker 6: Misconduct by Michael Proctor, the lead investigator, even take aside

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Speaker 6: the bias text messages that we've talked about where he

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Speaker 6: said very disgusting things, hard to do, hard to Karen

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Speaker 6: read side, But even taking that out, he had a

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Speaker 6: refusal to look behind beyond Karen as a suspect. There

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Speaker 6: was almost no investigation. There was literally no investigation into

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Speaker 6: the Alpert's house. The Perts, the homeowners did not come

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Speaker 6: out at all that morning.

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Speaker 3: They only went in for like five minutes to interview

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Speaker 3: Jen McCabe.

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Speaker 2: Right, I was gonna say in Jenn McCabe, she's really

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Speaker 2: the one who's basically saying I did it.

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Speaker 4: I did it.

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Speaker 2: She heard Read's first hand confession. Where's all the investigating

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Speaker 2: into the people that were there? Courtney, Courtney, did you

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Speaker 2: go to law school?

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Speaker 4: There was over the weekends.

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Speaker 3: Got me listen, I'm sensing some bias here.

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Speaker 6: There was no crime scene tape to secure the scene.

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Speaker 6: These are facts A neighbor's home which had a ring

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Speaker 6: camera pointed directly at the Alpert's house. It wasn't visited

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Speaker 6: that home and therefore the video was lost. These are

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Speaker 6: investigative absolute failures that prove that you know, they were

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Speaker 6: not looking at anyone but Karen Reid. And then also

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Speaker 6: with the tail light, so the tail light was completely

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Speaker 6: the internal workings were totally gone, right, but at which

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Speaker 6: meant it would not light up at all. But there

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Speaker 6: was a photo at five seven am, many hours after

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Speaker 6: she allegedly hit Schaineakeef where her tailight was illuminated. And

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Speaker 6: yet then that's right after that.

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Speaker 4: That's right, it was totally white, right because the red Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's right, that's right.

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Speaker 2: I know. I would like to know if in fact

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Speaker 2: Karen Reid is found innocent not guilty tomorrow. My prediction

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Speaker 2: if that happens, can charges still be placed on, say,

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Speaker 2: for example, Brian Higgins, who's come up many times allegedly,

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Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly is is can the state prosecute Yeah, of course.

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Speaker 3: They can't prosecute Karen Reid, but certainly they could go,

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Speaker 3: well we went back to the drawing board, and you know,

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Speaker 3: but I mean, I would imagine that the Higgins defense

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Speaker 3: would be like, well, then why'd you prosecute?

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Speaker 4: Why'd you try to prosecute Karen?

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Speaker 3: Read twice in a row like why you know now

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Speaker 3: you're just looking for a fall guy, you know, But

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: But ye, it's a bad look I suppose to badbody.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so both the prosecution and defense have rested. When

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Speaker 6: we come back, Stephanie will give her verdict. We're going

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Speaker 6: to continue following this and we are joined by forensic

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Speaker 6: expert Joseph Scott Morgan. He has insight on three major

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Speaker 6: criminal cases. Then we're breaking down week five at the

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Speaker 6: trial in Shan Diddy Combs keep it here on True

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Speaker 6: Crime tonight.

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Speaker 2: So we were really highly debating this whole Karen Reid's stuff,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to push that on until later in

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Speaker 2: the show. I'm still a little bit divided, although both

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Speaker 2: of you, I must say, have done a really great

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Speaker 2: job presenting the facts. But now on to our next body.

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Speaker 2: Where should we start with Long Island? So the alleged

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Speaker 2: Long Island serial killer Rex Hewerman. He'll be back in

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Speaker 2: court on Tuesday. This is court, by the way, the judge.

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Speaker 6: Will continue to weigh in on whether or not to

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Speaker 6: allow the key DNA evidence into the trial. Rex Huwerman

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Speaker 6: was arrested in twenty twenty three on suspicion of being

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Speaker 6: the serial killer allegedly responsible for eleven murders in Long

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Speaker 6: Island from nineteen ninety three to two thousand and eleven.

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Speaker 6: It's important to note he has been only linked and

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Speaker 6: accused of seven of the murders. The other remaining ones

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Speaker 6: are alleged and there is going to be a June

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Speaker 6: seventeenth hearing and prosecutors want to admit cutting edge genetic

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Speaker 6: evidence and the defense has strong objections and we will

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Speaker 6: hear more about that when they're back in court.

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Speaker 2: Well, I have a sneaking suspicion that Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 2: forensics expert, host of bodybags and also worldwide scholar himself

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Speaker 2: Jacksonville State University, is here in the house.

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Speaker 4: Joseph, what do you have to say for yourself?

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Speaker 5: Oh? Not much, but thanks for having me on Hoe.

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Speaker 5: I've been waiting to join you guys now low these

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Speaker 5: couple of weeks and it's great to be on We

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Speaker 5: all to see if shining faces and hear your lovely voices.

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Speaker 2: Joseph is also Katie Family and he is a part

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Speaker 2: of the crew here, going to be with us often.

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Speaker 4: He does all of our podcasts as well.

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Speaker 2: He's been on all of our documentaries, so he's he's

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Speaker 2: the guy, and honestly, I think we have so many

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Speaker 2: questions for you, Joseph.

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Speaker 4: Buckle up, Buckle up, Joseph. Rip that band aid off,

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Speaker 4: right exactly.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm buckled up. I'm ready.

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Speaker 6: What do you think in the Long Island Cage, Joseph?

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Speaker 6: What do you think about the judge ruling one way

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Speaker 6: or the other about the DNA evidence?

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Speaker 7: Should it be allowed.

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Speaker 4: And what's different about it?

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Speaker 5: I think that it should. Yeah, Well, you know, what

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Speaker 5: they're talking about is utilizing what's referred to as nuclear

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Speaker 5: DNA as opposed to DNA studies where you're dealing with

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Speaker 5: greatly degraded DNA, which this is, by the way, but

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Speaker 5: they're going to apply nuclear testing to it, and they've

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Speaker 5: come up with some interesting results. You know, over period

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Speaker 5: of time, biological specimens break down, so you have to

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Speaker 5: do everything you can to try to enhance those. What's

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Speaker 5: really fascinating I found in this particular case is that

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Speaker 5: the defense in is pre trial hearing that they had

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Speaker 5: some time ago, they actually now get this. They actually

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Speaker 5: use the defense attorney actually used the term magic. And

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Speaker 5: I was talking recently at a conference and whatnot. It's

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Speaker 5: almost like I had visions of him describing that they'd

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Speaker 5: suddenly discovered fire for the first time. You know, this

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Speaker 5: is not magic. This is something that's been used literally

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Speaker 5: in healthcare for years and years. What's it used for, well,

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Speaker 5: to study disease with and it's validated in a medical community. Okay.

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Speaker 5: But here's the rub. It's in order for something to

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Speaker 5: be admitted and used in court, particularly news technology, I

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Speaker 5: mean new technology, it has to go through a series

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Speaker 5: of gates, if you will. And there's two ways to

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Speaker 5: look at it. You have Daubert States, which is much

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Speaker 5: more rigorous, which New York is not a Daubert state,

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Speaker 5: as reportedly progressive as they are. There's still a Fry state.

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Speaker 5: There's only four Fries states left. And you know United

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Speaker 5: States they use Fry. The bar is much lower for them.

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Speaker 5: And so break that down to generalized. Yeah, well, with

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Speaker 5: Fry being in a Fry state, it's like the bar

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Speaker 5: is much lower, Okay, in order to get to get

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Speaker 5: evidence admitted into court, it's the way it's phrase generally

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Speaker 5: is general scientific community acceptance, if you will. All right,

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Speaker 5: very very proper. Now there has to be published over

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Speaker 5: it very rigorous, that sort of thing that doesn't exist here.

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Speaker 5: I suspect that it will get admitted, no use it.

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Speaker 4: Well, I was just going to ask you that.

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Speaker 3: So because they're this fry state, they have a lower bar,

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Speaker 3: so you would think that it would be allowed then, right,

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Speaker 3: because it's new, and I guess the defense is proclaiming

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Speaker 3: that this is not scientifically accepted anywhere.

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Speaker 5: That's what they're saying. But yet you have a huge

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Speaker 5: volume of the stuff. The nuclear DNA has been used

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Speaker 5: for years and years worldwide in the medical community.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, well, we're going to find out if the

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Speaker 3: judge allows this evidence into the humor and trial, what

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Speaker 3: could this mean for his defense?

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Speaker 5: Do you think I mean, it's going to be Yeah,

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Speaker 5: if you're asking me, I think that it's going to be.

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Speaker 5: It's going to be difficult for the defense to overcome. Simply,

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Speaker 5: the numbers are astronomical, you know, and we'll hear about

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Speaker 5: these astronomical two months in a row, astronomical numbers in

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Speaker 5: both in both the Hurman case and in Coberger's case.

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Speaker 5: These numbers are mind blowing. When you get into this

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Speaker 5: arithmetic and you begin to think about what are the

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Speaker 5: odds Now, for years and years we thought about things

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Speaker 5: like blood typing, ABO grouping and all of that. You're

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Speaker 5: talking about one in one hundred and twenty nine thousand.

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Speaker 5: When you start to talk to I mean one like

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Speaker 5: one in one hundred and forty nine people might have

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Speaker 5: av grouping or ab pause grouping or ab neg grouping.

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Speaker 5: You're talking about quintillion in this case. And that's that's

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Speaker 5: the fight. That's the fight not want to have, and

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Speaker 5: that's what they're facing right now.

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Speaker 4: Well, plus the.

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Speaker 3: Hair from the daughter and the wife. Right there's it's

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Speaker 3: not just him, right am I collecting that?

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Speaker 5: Right? Yeah, You've got these. So you've got the association

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Speaker 5: here between these two other people that otherwise might be outliers,

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Speaker 5: but they're really not. They're domiciled in this location along

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Speaker 5: with a guy that has not been convicted, that has

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Speaker 5: been accused of some of the most heinous crimes you know,

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Speaker 5: up and down the Eastern Seaboard. It's compared to up

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Speaker 5: and down the Eastern Seaboard in years and years. When

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Speaker 5: you begin to think about the volume of the things

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Speaker 5: that he's been accused of and also facilitating them, maybe

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Speaker 5: at the same domicile, using the same vehicle. All these

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Speaker 5: sorts of things begin to play into it and the

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Speaker 5: science I think, and of course I'm kind of partial.

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Speaker 5: I think the science is going to be the tale

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Speaker 5: of the tape.

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Speaker 4: Here I do too, just agree.

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Speaker 2: Can I ask you just about the home itself where

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Speaker 2: Rex Nuerman and his family lived. As a reminder, he

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Speaker 2: was a married man, two children, one with special needs.

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Speaker 2: His daughter recently was you know, quoted as saying that

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Speaker 2: it's you know, it is possible I'm paraphrasing that her

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Speaker 2: father is the Gilgo Beach killer. His daughter, Victoria, took

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Speaker 2: the train with him to work every day where he

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Speaker 2: was an architect in New York City. So this was

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Speaker 2: like an average man doing very non average things.

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Speaker 4: The house.

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Speaker 2: Much has been made about there being sort of this

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Speaker 2: dungeon where unthinkable things were happening to the accused victim,

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Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly allegedly that you know, some of these women

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Speaker 2: were dragged there and kept alive and frankly tortured. Think

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Speaker 2: silence of the Lambs type style. Is there forensics to

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Speaker 2: point to that would that you would agree with that assertion?

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Speaker 5: Well, I think couple couple structurally with that environment which

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Speaker 5: these things could have allegedly taken place of along with

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Speaker 5: this list that he created to do list, which absolutely

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Speaker 5: if for folks that are not familiar with it, if

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Speaker 5: you actually read this thing, it will send a chill

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Speaker 5: up your spine like no other bit of evidence that's

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Speaker 5: out there. And one of the things that they talk about,

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Speaker 5: or that he allegedly talks about in this list is

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Speaker 5: this idea of the hard point, and a hard point

400
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Speaker 5: is generally something that engineers, structural engineers, architects talk about

401
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Speaker 5: like an adjoining area, you know, when you're building a structure,

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Speaker 5: But for the hard point here, this is also something

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Speaker 5: that that kind of filters into statistic behavior with sexual predators,

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Speaker 5: where you can actually suspend somebody or hang them from

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Speaker 5: like a hook or an eyebolt or one of these things.

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Speaker 5: And that's that's very chilling, you know when you think

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Speaker 5: about that and that dark, dirty basement down there. I've

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Speaker 5: actually been to the house. I stood outside of it,

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Speaker 5: took photographs that sort of thing. I don't think I

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Speaker 5: was supposed to be there, but I was, And it

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Speaker 5: stands out like a source on these houses are the

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Speaker 5: lawns are immaculate. They're not huge houses, but worked a

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Speaker 5: lot of money in Long Island and this thing, you know,

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Speaker 5: for an architect to live there, it is pale. And

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Speaker 5: you began to think about the expeer of the house.

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Speaker 5: And I don't know if you can read much into

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Speaker 5: what went on relative to life inside the house by

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Speaker 5: what's still on the outside. But it was a real,

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Speaker 5: real dumpster fire.

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Speaker 2: It's true there, you know, apparently were hoarders, you know,

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Speaker 2: so sometimes you know, hoarding could be thought of as

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Speaker 2: a mode of depression, right, So maybe it wasn't the

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Speaker 2: most happy home. But again, who would imagine that in

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Speaker 2: a suburban neighborhood where people have really nice lives and

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Speaker 2: you know your neighbors, and people are walking dogs that

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Speaker 2: you don't have, you know, girls hanging from the ceiling

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Speaker 2: in the basement when the kids are home.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I got to tell you, if I was

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Speaker 5: out walking my dog, I'd get on the other sidewalk

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Speaker 5: across the street and walk my dog. Just by the

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Speaker 5: external appearance.

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Speaker 4: Of this thing, unbelievable, Joseph.

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Speaker 6: And I know, you know, this hasn't gone to trial yet,

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Speaker 6: but as of today, what do you think is the

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Speaker 6: most compelling forensic evidence?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we've heard about I think probably a big part

437
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,679
Speaker 5: of this is going to be a placement of the

438
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 5: bodies and the level to which the bodies were memorialized

439
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 5: by by him with the wrapping, the using of the

440
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 5: burlap sacks and that sort of thing. That consistency there,

441
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 5: I think, and I think probably and this is more circumstantial.

442
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 5: But going to the lifestyle these poor women led, you know,

443
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 5: living hand and mouth existences as sex workers, and a

444
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 5: lot of have been made about that over the years,

445
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,199
Speaker 5: I think degrading them and no one deserves what they

446
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 5: got at all on any level. We definitely agree car

447
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 5: in itself, Yeah.

448
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 4: We definitely agree there.

449
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 3: We're going to be back with Joseph Scott Morgan to

450
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 3: break down the forensics and other major cases in the news,

451
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 3: from murders to a bombing with the mysterious motive and

452
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 3: a manifesto.

453
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 4: Then we're going to be.

454
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 3: Discussing week five in the trial against Sean did he come?

455
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,679
Speaker 3: There were some more major twists. Keep it here on

456
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 3: True Krime Tonight.

457
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 2: Forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan is breaking down all the

458
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 2: latest cases of the summer. He has some very unique

459
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 2: insight the Idaho College murders. If you've been following us closely.

460
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 2: There's a report that just came out that there's a

461
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,919
Speaker 2: video potentially of the door dash driver, and we're not

462
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 2: even going to talk about it quite yet because we

463
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 2: haven't verified and we want to make sure that we're

464
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 2: sharing information that is both timely and accurate. So more

465
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 2: on that tomorrow. But again, lots to uncover in all

466
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 2: things Idaho. Body, where should we begin.

467
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 3: Well, I was going to talk about the door drash driver,

468
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 3: but you took the wind out of my sails.

469
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 4: Oh baby, you got to hold that thought.

470
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 3: No, we do have to. We want to make sure

471
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 3: that we're giving the correct information. So we got a

472
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 3: lot to look at with that. But you know, this Wednesday,

473
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 3: of this upcoming Wednesday day, actually Judge Hipler is holding

474
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 3: you know, a hearing to decide if the motion to

475
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 3: delay his trial will be granted, So we'll definitely be

476
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 3: covering that and whether or not his team can introduce

477
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 3: the alternative suspect. Now, that portion of the hearing will

478
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 3: be sealed, so we're not going to know what they

479
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 3: talked about, but the portion of the hearing that's going

480
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 3: to be discussing the delay will be you know, on

481
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 3: their YouTube channel, so we'll be covering all of that.

482
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 3: As a reminder, Korberger is a former PhD student in

483
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 3: criminology and he's accused of fatally stabbing for University of

484
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 3: Idaho students on November thirteenth of twenty twenty two. This

485
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 3: happened in Moscow, Idaho, very close to the University of Idaho,

486
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 3: and the victims were all really young. They were in

487
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 3: their twenties, and they were all college students, so sometimes

488
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: you'll hear it referred to as Idaho college murders.

489
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 4: I have a question for Joseph.

490
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 3: So there's so much to cover in this case, and

491
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 3: I know we only get you for such a short time,

492
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 3: but I have so many questions for you because this

493
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 3: is a case really about forensics. Right, There's so much

494
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 3: to cover, But let let's just start with the latest,

495
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 3: which is the alternative suspect. Right. I think it's personally,

496
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 3: I think it's nonsense. But what do you what are

497
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 3: your thoughts on it?

498
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 5: Why? Why is there not been anything up until this point?

499
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 5: And I think that if the defense cares so much

500
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 5: about the community, they think there's somebody else out there

501
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 5: and they have an id on that person. Least the name.

502
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 4: Release the name exactly, it would be dangerous.

503
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, you've got somebody, arguably from what we've heard, that

504
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 5: has perpetrated horribly painous crime. I mean, they're saying the

505
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 5: bloodiest they've ever seen. But yet this person's running about

506
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 5: the countryside. So you don't have a name. You say

507
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 5: that there's somebody, do you not care about the citizens

508
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 5: up there? I think that that would be my supposition

509
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 5: at this point. But that's just me, you know, And

510
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 5: I find it interesting that nothing has come up. I

511
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 5: think that probably how this is going to play out.

512
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 5: They've talked about, you know, one of the young ladies

513
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 5: upstairs had three contributors under her fingernails, and they're going to,

514
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 5: you know, introduce this mystery person. Maybe I don't know,

515
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 5: but that's something that I think is very curious. I'd

516
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 5: like to know who it is. If that's what they're

517
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 5: going to look for.

518
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 3: I think they might be even using that the blood

519
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 3: on that handrail, that might be something that they try

520
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 3: to use as well. You know, I don't know if

521
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 3: they ever identified the way it came from, but I

522
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 3: think they're going to use that.

523
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 5: We hadn't heard anything. I'm really wondering body if if

524
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 5: that was if it was a non viable sample, you know,

525
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 5: if it was just it compromised in some way, and

526
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 5: it could be compromised both the ways. One of the

527
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 5: ways it can be compromised is how it's collected. You know,

528
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 5: how did they try to process it? Did they destroy it?

529
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 5: You know? What was it?

530
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 8: Was?

531
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 5: It inconclusive And we're not necessarily on have all of

532
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 5: those answers until the same makes it into the courtroom.

533
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,959
Speaker 2: And just as a for clarity, there's three pieces of

534
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 2: evidence that we're talking about when it comes to this, right,

535
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: it's the handrail that there is this unidentified and new,

536
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 2: you know, little something also under victim Madison Mogan's fingernail,

537
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 2: allegedly there's more DNA or additional like a mixture, a

538
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 2: mixture which you know, by the way, I know this

539
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 2: only because I get to work with Joseph so often.

540
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 2: You know that we all have DNA under our fingernails, right,

541
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: just by hugging on each other. I for sure have

542
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: all of your DNA potentially under my fingernails just by

543
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 2: greeting you and giving you hugs, right. And then also

544
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 2: there's that glove and that too had a hit of

545
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: something on it. Again, this is all stuff that they're throwing,

546
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: you know, in his defense. But to Joseph's point, this

547
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 2: happened in twenty twenty two. Has it been three years

548
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: with a killer at large running around Moscow, Idaho?

549
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 3: I think it's going to be like kind of like

550
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 3: the alibi defense. It's going to be just a lot

551
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 3: to do about nothing. It's going to be, you know,

552
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 3: kind of similar to, oh, he was driving out looking

553
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 3: at the stars on a cloudy night. I think it's

554
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 3: much to do about nothing in my opinion, I'm only

555
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 3: speaking for me, Joseph.

556
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,719
Speaker 6: I have just one more follow up about the the

557
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,959
Speaker 6: DNA quote mixture of three potential people under victim Madison

558
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 6: Moogen's nails Colberger turned up inconclusive. How much weight should

559
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 6: I give that? Because that, yeah, should that raise a flag?

560
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 6: Not raise a flag?

561
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 5: Don't think about how much weight you should give it.

562
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 5: Think about how much weight the defense has given it

563
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 5: because they didn't want to admit it, because you know,

564
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 5: it leaves the door open. You know, they didn't want

565
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 5: that admitted. They didn't want that introduced, so he cannot

566
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 5: be included or excluded. I think that's that's key here,

567
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 5: you know. So I'm not saying it's damning, but you know,

568
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 5: my cousin, Vinny, your bill in the house blocked by block,

569
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 5: you know, And so that's the way I look at it.

570
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 5: And if they start screaming anytimes somebody starts screaming about

571
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 5: something like this, you know that. You know, I don't

572
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 5: want it to happen.

573
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: Joseph, you and I were on the phone when these

574
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 2: murders happened. I remember it like was yesterday. You were

575
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 2: the first person I spoke to and when these murders

576
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 2: had occurred, and we were all so shocked by just

577
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 2: the sheer volume.

578
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 4: Of blood and the overkill.

579
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: And you know, you'll remember you've seen photos probably of

580
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 2: the cement under the house.

581
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 4: Literally it had blood dripping.

582
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 2: The fact that there aren't more forensics, to me, is

583
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: always slightly interesting in and of itself. Obviously, the house

584
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: where this murder, these murders occurred has now been destroyed.

585
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: That too, was very controversial. And what happens next, you know,

586
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 2: this new leak from Dateline had some information that I'm

587
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 2: curious if you have an opinion on that.

588
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 5: Hell yeah, I've got an opinion on it. And I'll

589
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 5: tell you why. I woke up on a Saturday morning

590
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 5: to a tweet from somebody that said, what was it? Well,

591
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 5: I guess he's a fan of Joe Scott forensics. Oh

592
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 5: he watched your had flashed had flashed up on the

593
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 5: dateline thing in that six week period. According to this

594
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 5: data dump, apparently he had been watching some of the

595
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 5: stuff that I was discussing. And my wife and I,

596
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 5: as as our tradition, every single morning, we drink coffee,

597
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 5: even on Saturday mornings, you know, and we're sitting there

598
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 5: and I'm thinking, oh my god, So I had to

599
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 5: go back and look at it. I didn't watch the program,

600
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 5: and there it is. There's a screenshot, you know, and

601
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 5: I'm thinking, and of course my wife is sitting there

602
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 5: and she's she's thinking, this guy's this guy's watching you,

603
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 5: you know, because we have weird things happen anyway, you know,

604
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 5: I'll appear on programs and whatnot. But this was something unbelievable.

605
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 5: But besides that, there's somebody that has released this right now.

606
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 5: I mean, the media is going to do what the

607
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 5: media does. That's their nature. However, what's the genesis of

608
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 5: this data dump and this is a data dump, and

609
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 5: you it's not just one piece. You've got CCTV images.

610
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,959
Speaker 5: You know, you've got still images, You've got all of

611
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 5: this data. And then the stuff that comes up about

612
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 5: positionality of Xana, and you know, we hear about all

613
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 5: these different things that have kind of dropped in our lap.

614
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 5: And then it's like, I think the next day, I

615
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 5: heard somebody say, oh, there's going to be more, and

616
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 5: I'm thinking that I can if I had been in

617
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 5: this Judge Chambers, just as a fly on the wall,

618
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 5: I can imagine his head was about to go nuclear

619
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 5: and just explode because you know they moved thing, are

620
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 5: they you know, reset it. They've had to move it

621
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 5: to Ada County and now the house is gone, and

622
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 5: you know, s fool guys is sitting back saying, what

623
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 5: what else? What else can happen? At this point, nothing's

624
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 5: off the table as far as I'm concerned.

625
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 2: And it's an interesting, you know, juxtaposition, because on the

626
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: one hand, you want to make sure it's a death

627
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: sentence trial that Brian Coberger is getting the greatest defense possible.

628
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: Right it's life and death, high stake situation, so they

629
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: have to take their time to get through all the

630
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: discovery associated with this case. However, on the flip of that,

631
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: more time equals more loose lips and leaks and reasons

632
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: and delays and alternate theories and jury pool issues. You know,

633
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: the closer it gets, the harder it gets to keep

634
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 2: information contained.

635
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 5: It does. And plus let's don't forget about the families.

636
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 5: They are in excruciating pain and it never ends. This

637
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 5: is a death like death that they continue to relive

638
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 5: every single.

639
00:31:58,720 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 4: Day, especially on FI.

640
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 5: There's no such thing as closure. Yeah, I don't fothersh that,

641
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 5: there's nothing. There's no such I don't believe in closure,

642
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 5: particularly when it comes to homicide. It goes on and on,

643
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 5: and this is salt and a wound and just continues.

644
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 4: It perpetuates itself, perpetuates itself.

645
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 2: Either way, do you have a fast opinion about Karen

646
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 2: read guilty not guilty? Not to go back to a

647
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 2: previous segment, but I'd be remiss not to ask, Come on, Joseph,

648
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 2: convince us, Yeah, guilty not guilty.

649
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 5: I think, Oh geez, I'm going to say. I'm going

650
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 5: to say, hum, Jerry, I'm going to say, yeah, I

651
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 5: don't think Yeah, I don't think they're going to be

652
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 5: able to come up with. I think it's going to

653
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 5: split because they've got to twist it around so much.

654
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 5: I think it's a massive confusion. That's what I think.

655
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 5: I love to look at the evidence and look at

656
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 5: it from that perspective, but for me, it's just it's

657
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 5: so convoluted, the whole thing is, and it's even more

658
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 5: convoluted second time around. So I really expected a better

659
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 5: job to have been done, and it's lacking greatly.

660
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 2: I got to tell you, if i'm John O'Keeffe, the

661
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: victims mom or parents Peggy O'Keeffe, you're thinking, I want

662
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: answers for who did this to my son? So if

663
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 2: it's not Karen Reid, who is it? I hope she

664
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 2: gets those answers at the bare minimum.

665
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 7: That's right.

666
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 6: Listen, we want to hear your thoughts on all of

667
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 6: tonight's cases.

668
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 7: Give us a call eighty to eighty three to one Crime.

669
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 6: We're talking Karen Reid, We're talking about the Long Island

670
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 6: serial killer, Brian Cooburger and Joseph will discuss more cases.

671
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: He is sticking with us for the evening. We're going

672
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 2: to be talking about the Diddy case coming up. Also

673
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 2: the Palm Spring bombing. And also there's breaking news right

674
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 2: now in that horrifying case in Minnesota. Man has been

675
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: on the loose and Courtney, what's the latest development.

676
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 6: This is literally minutes old, it's about four or five

677
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 6: minutes old. But the man hunt is over and suspect

678
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 6: Vance Luther Bolter has been captured in Minnesota for a

679
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 6: crime Governor Tim Waltz called quote an act of targeted

680
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 6: political violence.

681
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 4: Wow.

682
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 6: Yes, So Melissa Hortman, a Democrat, and her husband were

683
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 6: killed in a city near Minneapolis. John Hoffman and his

684
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 6: wife were also shot several times at their home.

685
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 7: They are out of surgery and stable right now. Excuse me.

686
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 6: John is out of state, out of surgery and stable,

687
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 6: and his wife is also alive. So this suspect impersonated

688
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 6: an officer and was driving what appeared to be a

689
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 6: police car, and investigators found in his car a hit

690
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 6: list of nearly seventy names. Oh my gosh, mostly figures

691
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 6: with ties to abortion rights.

692
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 7: So this manhunt, listen, job, well done.

693
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 4: Well done.

694
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 2: It takes a village, and you know, listen, these are

695
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 2: divisive times, these are scary times. Just the idea that

696
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 2: he was wearing law enforcement clothing is just incredibly scary

697
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: in and of itself.

698
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 4: And yeah, thank god, well done.

699
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 3: I read that the senator and his wife that survived.

700
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 3: I read that he was shot seven times, seven times,

701
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 3: eight times.

702
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 6: Yes, it is oh my god, absolute miracle and a

703
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 6: miracle for them to survive this.

704
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 3: Wow, we don't know where he was caught yet, like

705
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 3: they haven't released that information that we love. They have

706
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 3: taken him into custody, which leads us to believe that

707
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 3: he is not dead, right, like he's alive.

708
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 4: Right. It appears, Yes.

709
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 6: It appears, but will update as stuff comes out over

710
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 6: the remainder of the show. We can provide updates when

711
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 6: and if they do come in because it's all happening.

712
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 4: Now real time.

713
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, that's a miracle for the survivors. And

714
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 2: also also the lone survivor on the India flight, so

715
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: many souls lost, and that one survivor and eleven a

716
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: you know, also a miracle. Such a tragedy, so much loss,

717
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 2: But there is a glimmer in that that we're sending

718
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 2: our prayers to all of lost loved.

719
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 3: Ones and I am sending all the well wishes that

720
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 3: from law enforcement that you know, found this guy, right

721
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 3: that they send all their good mojo to the Pacific

722
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 3: Northwest for Travis Decker.

723
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 4: I hope that they find him. That makes sense.

724
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, Unfortunately, that man hunt is still going on. Travis

725
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 6: Decker has been accused of killing his three young daughters,

726
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 6: and US marshals and sheriff's officers, everyone's looking for this

727
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 6: man and hopefully he will be found.

728
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been and even his you know, ex wife,

729
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 2: the mother who has lost so much, she just lost

730
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 2: her three kids. She's even saying like it's impossible that

731
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: he wasn't having a mental health break in order to

732
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 2: commit these crimes like he is, you know, frankly disconnected

733
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 2: from reality, and that he was a loving father and

734
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 2: this just got so tragic. So again, more on this

735
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 2: to come, Joseph, you're sticking with us. We're going to

736
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 2: be breaking down, Diddy. We're going to talk about the

737
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: Palm Spring bombing into a deep dive there and then

738
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 2: also with following the new developments very closely as a

739
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 2: man is apprehended. This is true crime tonight. We're talking

740
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. So we've been covering a

741
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 2: ton Karen Reid, etc. More on that to come. But

742
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: first we have a phone call. So caller Linda, welcome

743
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 2: to the show. What's your question?

744
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 9: Yes, I was just curious what their thoughts were on

745
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 9: Rex Schuerman and all of the victims that have been

746
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 9: found so far. Do they think that the case is

747
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 9: coming close to an end or if there will be

748
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 9: victims ground like years to come. And then my other question,

749
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 9: thank you, And my other question is is there a

750
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 9: chance that he's being blamed for cass that he didn't do,

751
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 9: just so that the case can get closed.

752
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a fair question. Yeah, I could jump in

753
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 4: on that real quick. Go for it, Go for it.

754
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think those are really as few questions. You know,

755
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 2: Joseph can speak to the forensics. It does seem as

756
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 2: though there is some significant connective tissue between the various victims,

757
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 2: and there are still four that have not been identified,

758
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 2: specifically two Rex humer men Peaches is one that gets

759
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 2: spoken about very often in the two year old toddler.

760
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 2: Those are not connected quite yet, so we kind of

761
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 2: are remaining we're kind of waiting to see. Some of

762
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 2: them were found, as you may know, in these burlap bags,

763
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: and then others seemingly weren't. So there's some differences, and

764
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 2: therefore it's possible that this is a pile on right,

765
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 2: and maybe he didn't do all of these murders, and

766
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 2: maybe there's just more being piled on to him. I'm

767
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 2: sure Joseph, forensics wise, you have a feeling on this.

768
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, for me, you'd have to look at

769
00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 5: I think from just a spatial stamdpoint point where these

770
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 5: bodies were deposited and in proximity to the individual that

771
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 5: has been accused here. That's going to be one of

772
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 5: the first steps I think that the investigators are going through,

773
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 5: and in addition to that any kind of circumstantial evidence

774
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 5: that they've been able to put together as far as

775
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 5: him being tracked. I think one of the curious things

776
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 5: about lists that the police allege are these collection of

777
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 5: burner phones that were utilized over a period of time.

778
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 5: And that's really hard to get passed when you begin

779
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 5: to point back to these poor women that have been

780
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 5: victimized and brutalized. For me, at least, you know that

781
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 5: someone would go to this trouble and he just happens

782
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 5: to have the burner phones that actually have their numbers

783
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 5: in them, you know, these escort services and that sort

784
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 5: of thing. So I think that's a bit of damning

785
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 5: information that interestingly enough, they're having to kind of resurrect

786
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 5: older forensic digital evidence to bring into this based upon

787
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 5: how far back these cases go.

788
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 4: And with Grenda, that's a good question.

789
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 2: That is a very clever one too, because you're right,

790
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 2: the phone stuff, that's really hard to explain away period

791
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: at the end.

792
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, with the phones, I believe and correct me

793
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 6: if I'm wrong, Joseph, that not just were these burner

794
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 6: phones that rex Huerman had tied to the women, but

795
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 6: also it exactly mirrored where his main phone also went.

796
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 6: So wherever he and his phone went, so did the

797
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 6: burner phones. And that is tied together entirely.

798
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's kind of fascinating because you can what's

799
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 5: really interesting. I covered a case out of a Mennonite,

800
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 5: young Mennonite woman that was kidnapped and tracked all the

801
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 5: way her phone and the kidnapper's phone who wound up

802
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 5: killing her. We're both simultaneously tracked going down the road

803
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 5: to Arizona where she was eventually found. And it's amazing

804
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 5: to tracking. You know, you might not be using your

805
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 5: phone you're not thinking about using your primary phone. But

806
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 5: for him, he's got this burner phone and these things

807
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 5: are traveling and hand them. Don't think about him. Just

808
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 5: think about these two dots on a map. You know

809
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 5: that they're kind of moving about. And again it's dispassionate,

810
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 5: you know, when you think about it, it's just fact.

811
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 5: And what a Dummy's really difficult to get.

812
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 3: He goes to all the trouble get a burner phone

813
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 3: and then brings his regular phone to what a dummy?

814
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, I like its true acknowledge that as.

815
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: A spade of spade, Yeah, he is a dummy, and

816
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 2: it's terrible and but thank god he's a dummy.

817
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 4: That's the case allegedly.

818
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: Then at least there's a footprint to you know, lead

819
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: to you know, a conviction if in fact he's done this,

820
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 2: you know, Joseph. There's also, you know, so much speculation

821
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: just about you know, this case went unsolved for so so.

822
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 4: Long, right, and maybe that there are many more.

823
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: We heard very recently an author of one of the

824
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 2: books on the case says that he believes that there's

825
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 2: likely one hundred more victims possibly and you know, it's

826
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 2: hard to dispute that given that the victims that we

827
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 2: do have identified is really because the mothers, their moms

828
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 2: did not give up the fire, and they kind of

829
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 2: came together and really did this investigation and pushed and

830
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 2: pushed and pushed authorities, and thankfully they are getting closer

831
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 2: to some justice God willing.

832
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 4: What do you think is going to happen next?

833
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 5: Well, I think that if there are other cases, they're

834
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 5: going to begin to kind of lace these together. I

835
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 5: just don't know how significant the information is that they have,

836
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 5: because I would think that they would have kind of

837
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 5: coupled them or bundled them in a modern term in

838
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 5: cases to go that they had substantive forensic data to

839
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 5: tie them back where they have linkage to him. These

840
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 5: are the most solid ones that they have at this

841
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 5: point in time. What's going to be interesting though, if

842
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 5: any new bodies are discovered and in the wiles of

843
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 5: Long Island, along that roadway that I've driven up and down,

844
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 5: it's thick. You know, You've got these thick orders, you

845
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 5: know that leads you down through this marshy area. You've

846
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 5: got the ocean on one side and you've got water intrusion.

847
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,040
Speaker 5: Things wash up, they go away, They come back. I

848
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 5: ever know what will happen in the future, but this

849
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 5: this appears to be a killing ground in there.

850
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 2: It appears to be a killing ground and possibly then

851
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 2: some So yeah, we'll be we'll be following this much closer. Linda,

852
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: thank you for the call, and we seem to have

853
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:14,399
Speaker 2: another welcome to the show.

854
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 4: What's your question, Hi, Jenna.

855
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 8: So I was wondering with Amazon coming out with a

856
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 8: new series One Night in Idaho premiering next month, and

857
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 8: you know, right before trial that's featuring family members and

858
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 8: potential witnesses that could be called at trial. How do

859
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 8: you think that could potentially impact seating an impartial jury?

860
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 4: Such a good question.

861
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 3: And all media has the potential to, you know, impact

862
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 3: the jury, right, Like we're all human, right, I just

863
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 3: I can't imagine that all this stuff coming out, Like

864
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 3: there's a book coming out like eleven days before the

865
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 3: trial starts. There's this documentary, and there's been countless other

866
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 3: you know, episodes of Dateline in twenty twenty and you know,

867
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 3: ad nauseum, right, there's been so much media this case.

868
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 3: I think it all could impact an impartial jury. However,

869
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 3: the State of Idaho, in their response to the defense's

870
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 3: motion for delay. You know, the defense is saying that

871
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 3: all this media is affecting their you know, Brian, and

872
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 3: he needs this delay. But the state is basically saying, no,

873
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 3: there's no amount of media that this case could get

874
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 3: where we could not see an impartial jury using individual worldoir.

875
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 3: So the state seems very confident that they're going to

876
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 3: be able to see an impartial jury. I'm not so

877
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 3: convinced personally. I think, you know, we're all humans and

878
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 3: we're all curious, right, We're all and especially if you

879
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 3: live in the area right that you might you might

880
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 3: be wanting to look up this case and you might

881
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 3: come you know, with all this, you know what I

882
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 3: consider to be like really prejudicial leaks that are coming

883
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 3: out because they all seem to really point at Brian

884
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 3: Koberger right as the person that did this. I mean that,

885
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 3: in my opinion, is super prejudicial.

886
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 2: And you would have to assume too that the documentary

887
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 2: you're speaking about the I'm one. I just saw the

888
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 2: trailer as well, and I'm sure they're keeping it very impartial, right,

889
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: that's the point of a documentary we're making one. Also,

890
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 2: Joseph is incredible in it as well, and that's for peacock.

891
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 2: And look, part of the challenge is making sure that

892
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 2: you're not taking anything that has not been factually viable,

893
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 2: and that you're curating the junk from the real stuff.

894
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: And there's so much misinformation out there on the other

895
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: side of it, getting it out correctly and cleanly based

896
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 2: on that might actually be very helpful. And listen, the

897
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 2: news is on every day, right, so you can't avoid

898
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 2: seeing some of this information, which is why the trial

899
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 2: needs to happen sooner than later.

900
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 4: In my opinion. Any delays, I think would just be terrible.

901
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 4: I would absolutely agree with you.

902
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 2: Thank you for your call, Jest, Thanks Jenna, thank you

903
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,399
Speaker 2: for listening, and yeah, keep calling back.

904
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely.

905
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 3: So we also have some updates in Diddy oh week

906
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 3: now your favorite subject, Stephanie Diddy seem great to be Are.

907
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 2: You guys just missing talking about it day in and

908
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 2: day out. You've had little reprieve for a couple of weeks,

909
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 2: had a little reprieve.

910
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 3: Well, there was some there was some stuff that happened

911
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 3: on Friday. You know, we weren't we don't have a

912
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 3: show Friday, so we weren't able to cover it.

913
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 4: So we're gonna do that now.

914
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 3: So Week five wrapped up after four like super intense

915
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 3: days with you know, Ditty's ex girlfriend Jane and that's

916
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,439
Speaker 3: like a pseudonym. But on Friday, there were some brief

917
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 3: appearances by Kanye. Yeah, so get this right. So I

918
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 3: don't know what he was doing there. I don't know

919
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 3: if he was showing up so to show solidarity with

920
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 3: Diddy support. But he showed up with Ditty's son and

921
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 3: they wouldn't let him in the courtroom, so he had

922
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 3: to go to like the overflow room with like the peasants, right,

923
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 3: and didn't like that, so he left.

924
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,919
Speaker 2: He was only there for ten minutes, all just in white,

925
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 2: very angelic, you know. Our sourcing says that he was

926
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 2: there in support of Ditty. Their old friends and buds

927
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 2: like him, hate him. They they go along way back.

928
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 2: And yeah, he showed up. He got stuck in the

929
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: me your room for ten minutes and it wasn't a

930
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 2: vibe and he he left.

931
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 4: It wasn't it was not the vibe.

932
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 6: Stephanie, you say, dressed you know, all in white as

933
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 6: an angel, I would have rethought the wardrobe choices. I mean,

934
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 6: I just all I think about are those Hampton's all

935
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 6: white parties and white It's so true.

936
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 4: That actually never occurred to me. That never occurred to me.

937
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 2: I thought he was doing something slightly angelic to show

938
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 2: like this, you know, good versus evil, you know, black

939
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,280
Speaker 2: clothing versus white clothing. Thing good point, Courtney, That's actually

940
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: very true. I hadn't occurred to me. One thing I

941
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 2: do think was very significant in the days leading up

942
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 2: to the weekend is this KK, Christina Koran being brought

943
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 2: into this case officially. You know, we've been talking about

944
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 2: this for a while. She goes by KK. That's also

945
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: Didy's like chief of staff. She used to be a

946
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 2: Bad Boys executive and then took over all things Diddy

947
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 2: and it it's kind of a key player in this

948
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 2: because if they can prove that she was in fact

949
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 2: a part of an enterprise that was coordinating and coercing

950
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 2: and a part of the cleanup, So it's the freak

951
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 2: offs and then it's the cover up, and it's the cleanup,

952
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 2: and it's the payoffs. If she was a part of

953
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 2: the payoff conversation to get that CNN video removed, where

954
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 2: did he was beating his then girlfriend? That's a thing

955
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: So in the meantime, Joseph, you've been doing a deep

956
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 2: dive and following this particular case in Palm Springs very closely.

957
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 2: So where should we begin fill us in.

958
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 5: Well, I think that it's very important that we go

959
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 5: back to May, which when IVF Clinic in Palm Springs

960
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 5: was bombed. They identified a guy at that particular time,

961
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 5: I think it's Gary Barcus, and he sets off this

962
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 5: bomb in front of the IVF clinic in his vehicle

963
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 5: and just absolutely just blows the thing to pieces. That

964
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 5: a couple of people were injured inside, and of course

965
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 5: he died as a result of it. But as it

966
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 5: turns out, he had written manifesto, and contained within the

967
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 5: manifesto was his referencing of a young lady that a

968
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,439
Speaker 5: month prior in April had been killed at the hand

969
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 5: of her boyfriend, a guy named Lars Nelson. Allegedly he

970
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:19,399
Speaker 5: was arrested for this. But the interesting tie back here

971
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 5: is that I heard a term because I'm I'm actually

972
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 5: I've actually covered this on bodybags. I heard a term

973
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 5: I'd never heard before, and it was two pro mortalist

974
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 5: and anti natalist. I'd never heard this terms before. And

975
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 5: the idea was that, you know, life is miserable, we

976
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 5: don't need to procreate. And in addition to that, I

977
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 5: didn't ask to be born. That's kind of the I'd

978
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 5: never heard this before, and it was an interesting motivation.

979
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 5: I saw the anti natalist.

980
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this was this was a clinic that helped

981
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 3: people have babies, right like they did IVF treatment. Yeah,

982
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 3: and they had embryos on site and so they.

983
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,439
Speaker 5: Did, yeah, frozen embryos in this facility. And he goes

984
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 5: to this location to blow its pieces and of course,

985
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 5: you know, fortunately I guess no one was killed other

986
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 5: than the bomber, but bodiac. I tell you, one of the

987
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 5: things this is sturbed at this and I'd love to

988
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 5: hear your view of this, because I know that you

989
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 5: dig on manifestos. The scary thing about this, and I'm

990
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,959
Speaker 5: just a forensics guy. Scary thing about this is that

991
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 5: are there other people? Because when somebody writes writes this

992
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 5: down and they're talking about that they have no value

993
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 5: in life and that you're better off dead, are there

994
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 5: other people that kind of adhere to this? And just

995
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 5: as a death investigate former death investigator, one of the

996
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 5: things that troubled me is that are there others lying

997
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 5: in wait, you know they're thinking about it, right, Well.

998
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 3: There's got to be there's got to be some kind

999
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 3: of group that these people are in to discuss their beliefs, right,

1000
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 3: And you mentioned in this manifesto, guy Bactus mentions this

1001
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:12,439
Speaker 3: lady Sophie almost said Cherry Sophie, and he says that

1002
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 3: he that she is his best friend. Well, like you mentioned,

1003
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 3: unfortunately Sophie her boyfriend called nine to one one and

1004
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,800
Speaker 3: said that she had committed suicide. Well, she had four

1005
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 3: gunshot wounds to the head, which is literally impossible to

1006
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 3: do if it's you're killing yourself, right, Like, nobody can

1007
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 3: shoot themselves four times?

1008
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 4: What another done?

1009
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 5: No, I've had cases I worked. You know, my background

1010
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 5: is I worked for the Corner in New Orleans and

1011
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 5: for the Emmy in Atlanta, and and so I've had

1012
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 5: people that have shot themselves multiple times. You have, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

1013
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 5: I've had several of those cases where a bad placement

1014
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,720
Speaker 5: of the weapon, oh okay, or people will test. You'll

1015
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 5: find people that will test our weapons. But can you

1016
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 5: imagine the cops are rolling out on this and they

1017
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 5: roll up to the scene and this guy's saying allegedly,

1018
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 5: again he's spent charged. Allegedly, Yeah, my girlfriend killed herself,

1019
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 5: and he's very just passionate about it. You know, in

1020
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 5: the nine to one one call, she killed herself and

1021
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 5: they walk in and you've got three spent casings on

1022
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 5: the floor, which means this is a semi automatic weapon.

1023
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 5: It had to be pulled at least three times, and

1024
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 5: then one of the rounds had passed through and lodged

1025
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 5: in the wall. This is not a suicide. And from

1026
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 5: what we're kind of hearing, these are all headshots, and

1027
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 5: so yeah, those are literally unsurvivable. I've had people shoot

1028
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 5: themselves in the stomach and then turn the weapon on

1029
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 5: themselves and shoot themselves in the head, but never never,

1030
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 5: I wonder, in my experience, at least, never four or

1031
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 5: three to the head.

1032
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 3: I wonder what the connection is between I don't know it. Yeah, well,

1033
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 3: I mean between him did she know something? Did she

1034
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 3: and he had to get rid of her. So I'm

1035
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 3: on the same track with you. There's he is he

1036
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 3: involved in this?

1037
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 5: And this is this is what this is what her

1038
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:10,320
Speaker 5: dad said, or her parents rather they're quoted, is actually

1039
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 5: having said that she could literally get this guy to

1040
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 5: do anything that she wished. And when I was putting

1041
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 5: this together for my podcast, I was thinking, I wonder,

1042
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 5: I wonder if he if this was a murder suicide thing,

1043
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 5: and then he just you know, he doesn't have the

1044
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 5: intestinal fortitude to go ahead and go through with it.

1045
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 5: Maybe that was it. But I'm thinking, here's what I'm hoping.

1046
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 5: I'm hoping because this is something that involves two jurisdictions.

1047
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 5: You've got obviously California, and you've got Washington States, Fox

1048
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 5: Island where Sophie died. Fox Island, Washington State's twelve hundred

1049
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 5: miles away from Paul Strings. By the way, I'm hoping

1050
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 5: the FEDS have gotten involved in this doing a deep

1051
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 5: dive if there is some kind of subgroup that's out

1052
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 5: there that's promoting this and that that it ends this tragically.

1053
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 5: I'm really hoping Smite's got os on the same because

1054
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 5: I gotta tell you, it's terrifying, and I hope that

1055
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 5: there's no copycats out there.

1056
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:14,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, Joseph, what are your thoughts on potential copycats?

1057
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:16,280
Speaker 7: Is that just because this is such.

1058
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 6: A terrifying organizing principle, or is there it seems like

1059
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 6: there's a likelihood.

1060
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 5: I don't know, it's it sounds like at least perhaps

1061
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 5: well people look bought into to an ethos. I don't

1062
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,959
Speaker 5: know it's right. Just earlier this month, are there more?

1063
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 3: Just earlier this month, Daniel Park of Kent, Washington was

1064
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 3: arrested on federal charges of providing material support to the

1065
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 3: guy who did the bombing.

1066
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 4: Guy barked this. He shipped bark this two.

1067
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 3: Hundred and seventy pounds of ammonium nitrate, I mean, which

1068
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 3: is the same which is the same stuff they used in.

1069
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 4: The Oklahoma bombing.

1070
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:01,919
Speaker 3: Is So there's there's some, there's some. I think there's

1071
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 3: something there. I think you're absolutely right, Joseph, I think

1072
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 3: there's something there. I really want to read this manifesto,

1073
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 3: but it's not available.

1074
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think, yeah, I know you. I think they

1075
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 5: think the guy that actually sold this, that facilitated this,

1076
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 5: I think they had to. They wound up tracking him down.

1077
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 5: If I'm not mistaken in Europe. He may have been

1078
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,879
Speaker 5: in Germany. I'm not. That seems like I'm remembering that,

1079
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 5: you know, going back to what she had mentioned about this,

1080
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 5: the subtance that they choose chose to use. I had

1081
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 5: a lot of friends that were with d mort which

1082
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:40,280
Speaker 5: is National Disaster Mortuary Service that response teams that worked

1083
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 5: Oklahoma City. A lot of people forget about Oklahoma City

1084
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 5: in the wake of nine to eleven and it was

1085
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:48,320
Speaker 5: horrible and to see the devastation that was done there

1086
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 5: is almost unimaginable, I think. And that he had access

1087
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 5: to this and he knew how to set it up.

1088
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 5: And allegedly the guy in Palm Springs actually a fast

1089
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 5: national fires and fire and explosives and things like this.

1090
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 5: So it's terrifying. Yeah, are some specifically, Yeah, So it's

1091
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 5: very terrifying.

1092
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 3: That's one of those predatory pre behaviors, right, that that

1093
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 3: people have prior to causing a massive, massive, violent destruction.

1094
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 3: And by all stretch of the imagination that happened here,

1095
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 3: I mean he was he was identified through DNA from

1096
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 3: his remains in the car. I mean he was tore up, right,

1097
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 3: this was a huge explosion.

1098
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 5: This wasn't like it was a massive and I urge

1099
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 5: anybody that has not seen the images and if they're

1100
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 5: free to view, you know, you can see from any

1101
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 5: of the news agencies the case really did not make

1102
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:48,240
Speaker 5: a big splash amazingly, uh, and it didn't. It didn't

1103
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 5: have life in the media cycle. But now I hope

1104
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 5: that it will, and I hope that there if there

1105
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 5: are other people out there and anybody that hears this

1106
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:58,840
Speaker 5: is aware of this, a beg of you.

1107
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 3: How they caught I think how they caught that guy Park,

1108
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 3: the guy that that was Incootes with him, was through

1109
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 3: their online presence because they were they were talking on

1110
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 3: online through you know, redded or four Chance, you know,

1111
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 3: one of those one of those sites where you can

1112
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 3: do that. I'm not saying that's where it happened, Please don't.

1113
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 3: I'm I'm just guessing here.

1114
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 4: And they were.

1115
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 3: They were all in this, you know, anti natalist group,

1116
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 3: and no human should be born without explicit consent basically,

1117
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 3: and so one A good update though from that the

1118
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 3: bombing is that all the embryos were saved, right, There

1119
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 3: were no There were people injured, but nobody was killed

1120
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 3: except for the driver who's a suspect, right, And all

1121
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 3: the embryos were not even touched, like they everything passed

1122
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 3: the mustard there. So that's good for the people that

1123
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 3: are using those facilities.

1124
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that all of us can identify we've

1125
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 5: all got dear friends probably that have long to have

1126
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 5: a child, and the fact the fact that you would

1127
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 5: go to a location where you've had these embryos is

1128
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 5: a real tragedy. People are begging, you know that can't

1129
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 5: have kids, that would love to have a child. And

1130
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 5: that's what's really terrifying about this.

1131
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 4: For me at least complicated stuff.

1132
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, and this whole movement. Thank you for bringing this

1133
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 6: to our attention. Joseph, I'd never heard of the anti

1134
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 6: natalist or pro mortalist beliefs, and just looking at a

1135
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 6: couple of quotes from the manifesto quote the end goal

1136
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 6: is for the truth to win, and once it does,

1137
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 6: we can finally begin the process of sterilizing this planet

1138
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 6: of the disease of life. I mean, this is really

1139
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 6: dark stuff, but listen, very stick around. We have a

1140
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 6: lot more ground that we will be covering tonight, Joseph.

1141
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 6: Scott Morgan is going to be sticking with us. We're

1142
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 6: going to be answering some of our questions. We have

1143
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 6: so many forensics, we have Karen Reid, and we're turning

1144
00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 6: the mic over to you, so don't forget to call us.

1145
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 7: We're at eight eight eight.

1146
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 6: Three to one crime and we want to hear your

1147
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 6: thoughts on Shandy Combs or really any of Tonight's stories.

1148
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 6: So Gabe pit here on True Gruntz Night, we are

1149
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 6: talking true crime all the time.

1150
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 2: So there have been a lot of breaking headlines, real

1151
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 2: time happening that we want to share.

1152
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 4: Courtney. Where should we start.

1153
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 6: Well, we should start with the fact that the manhunt

1154
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 6: is over and the suspect, Vance Luther Bolter has been

1155
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 6: captured in Minnesota. This is for a crime that Governor

1156
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 6: Tim Waltz called an act of targeted political violence. Michelle Hortman,

1157
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 6: a Democrat, and her husband were very sadly killed in

1158
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 6: a city near Minneapolis. John Hoffman, also a Democrat, and

1159
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 6: his wife were shot several times at their home. But

1160
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 6: both are stable and in fact, the wife you've at

1161
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 6: hoff Men says she is quote. Our family is so

1162
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 6: humbled by the love and outpouring from everyone. So Yovette

1163
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 6: is able to communicate. Shocking since her husband was shot

1164
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 6: nine times and she was shot eight times, and this

1165
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 6: manhunt was ended while we were on the air, if

1166
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 6: you were listening earlier, and a couple of things have

1167
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 6: come to pass. The Hennepin County Sheriff She was actually

1168
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 6: in tears when she confirmed the arrest of the suspect,

1169
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 6: and she said, there is so much release relief that

1170
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:37,919
Speaker 6: the suspect was taken into custody peacefully, no injuries to him,

1171
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 6: no injuries to officers involved.

1172
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 10: Wow.

1173
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 2: I mean, talk about landing that plane so carefully. Law enforcement, Again,

1174
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 2: we don't say it enough. Talk about putting your life

1175
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 2: on the line going out, you know, chasing down somebody

1176
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 2: who you know is a at large and dangerous and

1177
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 2: you know could be anywhere.

1178
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 4: This is again Father's Day.

1179
01:00:57,800 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 2: You know how many men and women are going out

1180
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 2: leaving their families and keeping us safe.

1181
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 6: So well done, Well done, And now we will go

1182
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 6: to talk back on Karen Reid.

1183
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 11: Hi, my name is Renee. I'm in Santa Monica, and

1184
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 11: I had a question about the Karen Reid trial. I

1185
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 11: don't understand how they are charging her with murder because

1186
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 11: I don't see how there is any evidence of intent

1187
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 11: to kill him. Can you please explain the charges that

1188
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 11: she is facing and what evidence they have put forward

1189
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 11: to show that she intended for him to die.

1190
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 2: By the way, I think what you are describing is

1191
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 2: the most important piece of this whole thing. She is

1192
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 2: overcharged and incorrectly charged. And maybe that's part of the

1193
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 2: Canton police is cover up air quotes allegedly. Maybe they

1194
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 2: were just trying to pile on to get her on

1195
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 2: a murder conviction when under no circumstances is that provable,

1196
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 2: you know, regardless if you think she hit him or not.

1197
01:01:58,120 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I totally agree.

1198
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 3: And you know, I don't think that even if she

1199
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 3: did hit him, and I don't think she necessarily did,

1200
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 3: I don't even think she realized it. Like there was

1201
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 3: no intent here, there was no premeditation. I don't even think.

1202
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 4: I think she just was.

1203
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 3: I if this is, if my theory is correct, which

1204
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 3: is you know that she backed up and scared him,

1205
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 3: he jumped and slipped and fell something along those lines.

1206
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 3: She wasn't intending to harm him in any capacity. I

1207
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 3: think because he's a police officer, they totally overcharged him,

1208
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 3: and I think it's going to be the state's downfall.

1209
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 4: I do too.

1210
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 2: I just hear you say you didn't think that she

1211
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 2: did it. Bodied are you changing in this hour, this

1212
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 2: evening's time, Have you changed your vote?

1213
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 3: No? I absolutely have not changed my vote. She's technically

1214
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 3: if she if she backed up at twenty four miles

1215
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 3: an hour and he thought she was going to hit him,

1216
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 3: which might have happened had he not moved out of

1217
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 3: the way.

1218
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 4: She's still guilty of filony manslaughter.

1219
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 6: Right, but the charges, and you'd ask specifically what they are,

1220
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:01,959
Speaker 6: it is second degree murder man slaughter while operating under

1221
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 6: the influence and leaving the scene of personal injury and

1222
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 6: death in connection with the death of of course her

1223
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 6: boyfriend John O'Keefe. Thank you for that, and I believe

1224
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 6: we have another talk back. Another Karen Reid question.

1225
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 7: Actually, I think.

1226
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 10: At one point that's not being talked about nearly enough

1227
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:23,439
Speaker 10: is the fact that Brian Higgins threw his phone out

1228
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 10: at a military base. That is completely irrational unless you

1229
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 10: have something to have.

1230
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 12: That is such a weird question. Yeah, that is really

1231
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 12: I completely forgotten. That is a shady stuff, right, real

1232
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 12: shady thing. I completely forgot about that.

1233
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I did too. I until he until he

1234
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 4: started talking. I was like, oh, yeah, that's right.

1235
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 3: And he drove like out of his way to the

1236
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 3: space too, right, Like he went out of his way

1237
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 3: to drive to this this this base and destroy his

1238
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 3: cell phone.

1239
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 2: His cell phone wasn't like candied over in any reasonable

1240
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 2: amount of time either. Yeah, that is a very good question.

1241
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 2: And then look at we'll never know because the the

1242
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 2: investigation was so messy that we'll actually never probably get

1243
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 2: to the bottom of any of this. And I'm curious,

1244
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 2: I'm curious what any of you think if there will

1245
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 2: be additional charges placed in the event that she's found innocent.

1246
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, if she's acquitted, do you guys think that the

1247
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 3: commonwealth will charge somebody else? I'd love to know what

1248
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 3: people think about that.

1249
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 7: One trial at a time. Number one.

1250
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 6: And then to answer the talk back, you know, I think,

1251
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 6: why isn't it you know, how did it happen?

1252
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 7: What does it mean?

1253
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 6: I think this cover up runs wide and it runs deep,

1254
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 6: and that is one piece of it, because why indeed

1255
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 6: are you doing that unless it is to remove all evidence?

1256
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 4: Joseph?

1257
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 3: Can we talk some forensics?

1258
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 4: Okay?

1259
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 3: Can I just leaned very closely to you, Joseph. I'm

1260
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 3: just going to start firing like boom boom, and you

1261
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 3: know you can tell me what you think. How do

1262
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 3: you feel that's about Brian Coberger My question? And Taylor

1263
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 3: said in one of the doc and many documents that

1264
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 3: she filed that there is a lack of DNA in

1265
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,440
Speaker 3: the in Brian Coberger's car that was found. Do you

1266
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 3: think that this could just be a clever wording because

1267
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 3: lack doesn't necessarily mean none, right, Or do you think

1268
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 3: it's possible that he was able to clean up the

1269
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 3: car that well, that there's no DNA in the car?

1270
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 5: I think yeah. I think that he had a protracted

1271
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 5: period of time with a car, even if he doesn't

1272
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 5: know anything about forensics, and some people have tried to

1273
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 5: paint him with some kind of mastermind. Just because you

1274
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 5: drive a car doesn't make you a Nascar eraser, all right.

1275
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 4: Gerald McCollum tells me the same thing, just while you

1276
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 4: have a.

1277
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, so, yeah, absolutely, and so he's no, he's a criminologist.

1278
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 5: There's a huge difference. And I resent people conflating the

1279
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:56,439
Speaker 5: tire and so yeah. So I think that he could

1280
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 5: have had he could have had sufficient amount of time.

1281
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 5: I've been on records saying that I felt as though

1282
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 5: that that car, going back to what step said earlier

1283
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 5: about you being on the phone with her, I felt

1284
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 5: at that time the car would be a rolling crime

1285
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 5: scene because you can't you can't excel from a location

1286
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 5: like that with four bodies that have been subjected to

1287
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 5: knife injuries and not be supersaturated with blood, and that's

1288
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 5: going to transfer. I mean, that's the cart's principle. Every

1289
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 5: contact leaves a trace, it's going to transfer into those

1290
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 5: filthy cloth seats in there. How did he get it

1291
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 5: sufficiently cleaned up or did he have barriers in place?

1292
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:37,000
Speaker 5: Did he take his clothes off before he got into

1293
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 5: the vehicle, put him in a separate bag, you know,

1294
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 5: the dickies cover all all right. We could go on

1295
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 5: and on.

1296
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 2: The shower curtain, the shower curtain, Joseph, We talked about

1297
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 2: this to nause him. It's such a scary detail. That's

1298
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 2: really a little unknowable if it's accurate. There was apparently

1299
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 2: no shower curtain in his apartment when it was air

1300
01:06:56,680 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 2: quotes raided, and that led all of us to assume

1301
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 2: or think perhaps that they took the shower curtain out

1302
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 2: so he could wrap himself in it while driving away allegedly, allegedly, allegedly,

1303
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 2: if he was being that clever and knew that he

1304
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 2: would be covered in blood and needed a way to

1305
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,480
Speaker 2: escape cleanly, how can you do that?

1306
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 3: One of the documents that just came out there. We

1307
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 3: were presented with the selfie that he took in the

1308
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 3: bathroom that morning, and if you look in the corner,

1309
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 3: you can see like a liner that looks brand new.

1310
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, like it stills the folds in it, right, Yeah,

1311
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 4: it looks.

1312
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 2: Like it was in that fold that you get right

1313
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 2: out of the packaging, you know. Also another haunting detail

1314
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 2: that I just have been stuck on is that in

1315
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 2: the hours after the murders, before the bodies were discovered,

1316
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 2: according to this dateline leak, he had been calling home

1317
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:55,760
Speaker 2: to dad, to Brian Coburger was calling his beloved father

1318
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 2: back in Pennsylvania. Those were pretty extensive calls in the

1319
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 2: wee hours. So I bring this up simply to say, either,

1320
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 2: it's so interesting that if you allegedly committed a murder

1321
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 2: of four people, you're covered in blood, you're probably frantic

1322
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 2: and manic.

1323
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 4: Is that the time that you call your dad.

1324
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,400
Speaker 2: And hang on the phone for forty five minutes two

1325
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 2: separate times, back to back.

1326
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 4: Or is it because you're so manic? Are you confessing?

1327
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 2: Or are you just feeling like chatty Cathy because you

1328
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 2: pulled something off and you don't know who else to call.

1329
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 2: It also puts a lot of you know, suspicion into

1330
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,840
Speaker 2: Dad because you know, we know that he came and

1331
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:36,519
Speaker 2: picked up Brian and they drove infamously home together for

1332
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 2: the holidays, got pulled over a few times.

1333
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 5: I don't think so yeah, yeah, boy. I'll tell you what,

1334
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:44,840
Speaker 5: if you've ever made the drive from the east coast

1335
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 5: to the west, or from the west to the east,

1336
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 5: you had a lot of time to contemplate a tom

1337
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 5: if you will, And if you're with somebody in that car,

1338
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 5: you know you're thinking about, you know, what went wrong,

1339
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 5: what did I do? Or maybe you're just discussing, you know,

1340
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 5: the upcoming hockey season. I have no idea, but that's

1341
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 5: kind of an interesting top back. And then you got

1342
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 5: the two stops in Indiana, you know where they're traveling

1343
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 5: down the road, and so all of that has run

1344
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,679
Speaker 5: through my mind as well. That was an interesting fond

1345
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 5: relative to this contact he had with Daddy in that

1346
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 5: bit of that bit of time, I was fascinated by.

1347
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 2: I know, my heart, I feel for a parent, like

1348
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 2: are they given this information and he's in the know,

1349
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 2: or do you just you know, you just don't think

1350
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 2: in a million years that your son or a child

1351
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 2: is capable of something that's not where your brain goes.

1352
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 2: It's a probably we won't know until trial. But sort

1353
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 2: of this backdrop that we're seeing, and also the idea

1354
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 2: that he was Brian Coberger allegedly was googling porn in

1355
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 2: pornography specifically of people who were, you know, passed out

1356
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 2: or drugged.

1357
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:52,800
Speaker 4: Not great, not a great look.

1358
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:56,759
Speaker 3: I wonder when I watch those the bodycam footage, I wonder,

1359
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 3: is the knife in the car?

1360
01:09:58,520 --> 01:09:58,760
Speaker 4: Oh?

1361
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 7: Because, my goodness, that's all I wonder about that.

1362
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 5: I thought that could have been compelled. I thought that

1363
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 5: maybe the state police had been compelled to do that

1364
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 5: precise thing, to interview inside the vehicle. Yeah, oh no,

1365
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:14,559
Speaker 5: we'll see what happens. We'll see what happened.

1366
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,800
Speaker 4: Know the judge mentioned apostle life. We'll get to that later.

1367
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:18,679
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1368
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:22,200
Speaker 2: Last licks, anything on the forensics that we've been discussing

1369
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 2: so far that we have left out so far.

1370
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:28,880
Speaker 6: One question burns from me, Joseph, go get a court. Okay,

1371
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 6: we start, Karen Reid, we got to bring it back.

1372
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 6: What do you think, please share? What do you think

1373
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 6: of the forensics in the case, whether it's John.

1374
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 7: O'Keefe's arm or his head. I want to hear what

1375
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:41,519
Speaker 7: you think about the arm.

1376
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:45,080
Speaker 5: Okay, well, when the arm my first blush when I

1377
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 5: was in the first time I ever talked about this

1378
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:49,679
Speaker 5: case was on Core TV. I came into it blind.

1379
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 5: They just asked me to appear. And so when I

1380
01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 5: initially saw those injuries on his arm, my mind didn't

1381
01:10:56,640 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 5: get a dog at that point in time. And this

1382
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:01,400
Speaker 5: was months and months and months ago. I hadn't heard

1383
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:03,200
Speaker 5: the full story at that point in time when I

1384
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 5: saw his arm. Based upon car accidents that I worked

1385
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 5: over the years, they look like they could have been

1386
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:11,240
Speaker 5: generated by an undercarriage of a vehicle and almost been

1387
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 5: a defensive posture where your arm bends at the elbow,

1388
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:18,640
Speaker 5: which remember it's flex there. We think arm goes up

1389
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:21,519
Speaker 5: in a defensive pace. It's almost a primal response and

1390
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 5: the underside of the vehicle kind of yeah, yeah, it's yeah,

1391
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 5: and we we do that. There's a primal course us

1392
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:32,720
Speaker 5: that respond to things that kind of defend ourselves. And

1393
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 5: so I thought he's knocked back and to do this,

1394
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 5: he defends himself. The only thing though, is that I

1395
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 5: have not been able to get a good answer, because

1396
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,720
Speaker 5: under the car is one of the filthiest areas anywhere,

1397
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 5: and you would think that there'd be a lot of transfer,

1398
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 5: you know, from the undercarriage of a car road dirt,

1399
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 5: road grime. And I haven't. I haven't seen a.

1400
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:58,559
Speaker 3: Lot of evidence of that, No evidence of that, actually, right, Like, yeah,

1401
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:01,440
Speaker 3: and that's problematic.

1402
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:03,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, and what about.

1403
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:06,840
Speaker 2: A little problematic that they didn't really go into the house.

1404
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 2: So if a dead body is found at the bottom

1405
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 2: of a street or the driveway of a home, it's

1406
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:16,760
Speaker 2: pretty standard to go and check out the home. No,

1407
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,519
Speaker 2: it seems as though like that didn't really happen quite

1408
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:20,080
Speaker 2: as thoroughly.

1409
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 5: I don't know. You get a warrant, you clear everybody

1410
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 5: out of the house. You've got a dead body in

1411
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 5: the front yard. You're getting out of the house. We're

1412
01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 5: getting statements from everybody, and we're going in and we're

1413
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 5: going to take a look. And they should have known better.

1414
01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:37,280
Speaker 5: They go on and on about cops, cops, cops, you

1415
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:40,200
Speaker 5: should know better. That's how the process works. This is

1416
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 5: a death investigation. This wound up with a murder two

1417
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 5: charge in addition to a vehicular manslaughter charge. Yeah, it

1418
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 5: should have been done.

1419
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 2: Thank you, josephare up in town exactly, Joseph, you tell

1420
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 2: them who's boss. Joseph, You're going to come back with

1421
01:12:59,880 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 2: us many many times. So final dips, because tomorrow we

1422
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:06,640
Speaker 2: might have a verdict in the Karen Reed trial. And

1423
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 2: then obviously also the Diddy trial will continue every day

1424
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 2: next week. It seems as though where are the celebrities

1425
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:16,080
Speaker 2: that we've been hearing about. Where are the celebrities the

1426
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:19,760
Speaker 2: revolving door of big ticket names. They seem to be

1427
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,280
Speaker 2: a no show other than Kanye. We'll get to that,

1428
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 2: you know, more on that tomorrow. And then also these

1429
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 2: latest developments in our hearts are with everybody on this

1430
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 2: Father's Day, Joseph to you as well. It's been a

1431
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 2: great show, so thank you everybody for joining us. Make

1432
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:36,759
Speaker 2: sure you tune in tomorrow. This is true crime tonight.

1433
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time.