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Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to Software Radio Special operations, military news and straight

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Speaker 1: talk with the guys in the community. Hello and everyone,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to Software Radio. I'm your host today, Steve

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Speaker 1: bel Shurie. We have a great guest on the line

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Speaker 1: with us, David Bull. Is it girl find or girlfriend? Girl? Fine? Girl? Fine,

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Speaker 1: that's what I thought. Yeah, Uh, folks, Uh. Dave is

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Speaker 1: the former Marine lieutenant colonel with a couple of combat

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Speaker 1: tours under his belt. He is the CEO of United

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Speaker 1: American Patriots. And we're gonna get into all that and

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Speaker 1: and all the great things that they do, um and

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Speaker 1: who they're supporting, and I think all of our listeners

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Speaker 1: will definitely want to tune into this and get involved

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Speaker 1: with what they're doing and donate. I think it's a

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Speaker 1: great organization and we're gonna get into all that. But

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Speaker 1: before we get any further, um, you know, we want

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Speaker 1: to invite and uh welcome Bold to the podcast. Bold,

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Speaker 1: thanks for taking the time with us this afternoon, and

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Speaker 1: uh we uh we welcome you and we hope everything

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Speaker 1: is going great today. Awesome, Steve, thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate you having me on. No, it's it's a pleasure. Um.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about your military career

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Speaker 1: to start off with. I know that you enlisted in

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Speaker 1: the Marines at seventeen, but then you went to Avio

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Speaker 1: was a Candida school, And talk us a little bit

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Speaker 1: about your military career. Yeah, I enlisted I was seventeen

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Speaker 1: because I heard if you went to college you had

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Speaker 1: to read books, and I wasn't planning on doing any

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Speaker 1: of that at the time. So, UH enlisted. Ended up

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Speaker 1: having a little battle with my dad over that, and

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Speaker 1: he allowed me to go in the Marine Corps reserves

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Speaker 1: so long as I went to college, and that was

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Speaker 1: kind of the trade off. So I went to UH

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Speaker 1: boot Camp Parris Island, South Carolina, and then UH, after

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Speaker 1: finishing my training, went up to college. And so that

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Speaker 1: was kind of an interesting experience, going straight as a

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Speaker 1: boot enlisted marine, drinking the kool aid up into to

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Speaker 1: a liberal college environment. So UH, definitely a unique experience.

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Speaker 1: When I'm battling it out with our professors, some of

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Speaker 1: whom said, yeah, I'm a communist and I think America

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Speaker 1: is destroying the world. I'm like, excuse me, I'd like

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Speaker 1: to make a comment there, so needless to state it

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Speaker 1: was an interesting time in college. UH then got commissioned

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Speaker 1: went on to become an infantry officer in the Marine Corps.

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Speaker 1: UH served twenty five years with multiple combat and operational

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Speaker 1: tours from Panama, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Afghanistan, Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba,

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Speaker 1: and ran around to a few other places like Korea

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Speaker 1: and down to Africa. And and I just had had

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Speaker 1: an awesome tour very uh, you know, very much operational

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Speaker 1: and out. They're really getting to see, you know, the

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Speaker 1: best of the best, serving with amazing marines who trained me,

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Speaker 1: educated me. And UH really couldn't have asked for a

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Speaker 1: better tour. And UH and I just have to make

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Speaker 1: one correction since we are UH ten November's Marine Corps birthday,

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Speaker 1: and UH, I just want to point out there are

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Speaker 1: no former marines. We are all marines. Once a marine,

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Speaker 1: always a marine, So we just want to make sure

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Speaker 1: we keep that clear. And UH anyway, finished up my

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Speaker 1: tour up on Capitol Hill. UH wasn't intending to go

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Speaker 1: that way, but that was a part of helping us

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Speaker 1: in up MARSK. Marine Special Operations commanded doing the planning

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Speaker 1: with that, and General Hale at times said hey bull,

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Speaker 1: great job. What do you want to do. I said, hey, boss,

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Speaker 1: you know me, I want to lead these guys into

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Speaker 1: the first fight to have. It was good, get up

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Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill and fight for money. SA. What bottom

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Speaker 1: line is. I finished up on Capitol Hill representing MARSK

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Speaker 1: and Special Operations Command making sure that MARSK and now

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Speaker 1: the Raiders had all the funding necessary to resource all

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Speaker 1: the missions that they're doing. So again, great career. Loved

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Speaker 1: it and the only reason I retired is because I

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Speaker 1: had a little girl on the way and decided to

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Speaker 1: be a dad instead of going back to Afghanistan. So

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Speaker 1: other than that, great tour and loved every minute of it.

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Speaker 1: I've read in your bio you were din in Panama

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Speaker 1: with that during just cards in the whole Noriaga mess. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was leading up to it. We were one of

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Speaker 1: the infantry battalions down there that were setting the conditions

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Speaker 1: for just cause. It was a part of the early stages,

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Speaker 1: and our job was to actually conduct security and operational

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Speaker 1: patrols out and around a couple of key installations in

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Speaker 1: Panama against Penmanian Defense Force who were being advised by

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Speaker 1: the Cubans at the time. Yep, I was stationed down

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Speaker 1: there at the same time, so uh yeah, And it's

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Speaker 1: a small country, so we pro probably weren't very far

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Speaker 1: apart from each other. I was stationed the third of

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Speaker 1: the seventh over for Davis, Panama, so yeah, yeah, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: we uh as you as you know, that's such a

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Speaker 1: small place, so we couldn't have been too far apart.

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Speaker 1: And when I saw that, I just thought it was anting,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, very interesting. Yeah, it was. It was a

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Speaker 1: different time back then, wasn't it. I Mean a lot

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Speaker 1: of things changed in the in the years after probably

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Speaker 1: Desert Storm, which came the very next summer, you know,

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Speaker 1: once all that kicked off, everything kind of changed. And

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Speaker 1: the military that we have a lot better communications now

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Speaker 1: than we did back then. Well that's that's definitely true.

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Speaker 1: And I remember early on as a second lieutenant around

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Speaker 1: I guess nine, you know, I started complaining to my

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Speaker 1: company commander how I only had, you know, maybe about

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Speaker 1: marines in my platoon and some of them were out

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Speaker 1: doing various different Fleet assistant programs and all the rest,

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Speaker 1: and these company commanders just laughed at me and said, hey.

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Speaker 1: Before Reagan came around. You'd be lucky if you had

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Speaker 1: a squat, so just be happy with the Marines you have.

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Speaker 1: So it was definitely you know, turning point for the

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Speaker 1: Marines leading up on and for all the armed forces

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Speaker 1: leading up to the first call for war, without a doubt. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and things changed. I uh entered the military still into

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Speaker 1: the Carter administration, So I'm dating myself there, but uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: then then the Reagan years came along, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I I became an officer myself in eighty nine, so

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Speaker 1: that's uh, you know. But anyway, um, now that's that's

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Speaker 1: very interesting. So yeah, we we probably passed each other

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Speaker 1: on the highway a few times, no doubt. It was

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Speaker 1: a great nice to be stationed. I have no complaints. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot worse places in the world to be

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Speaker 1: stationed in in Panama, so that's true. I wish we

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Speaker 1: still had our bases down there so away at the

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Speaker 1: time we were really allowed off base. We were brought

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Speaker 1: down there by the ambassador. He requested Marines coming down

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Speaker 1: there because unlike a lot of you guys were doing

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Speaker 1: the training up in the Jungle Warfare Training Center, the

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Speaker 1: rest of the soldiers were there with their their wives,

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Speaker 1: their children, their cats, their dogs, in the whole nine yards.

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Speaker 1: And Noriega felt there was no way the United States

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Speaker 1: would get into a conflict with him down in Panama

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Speaker 1: because he knew that he had the high ground around

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Speaker 1: all these bases and would be able to take it.

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Speaker 1: Would you know, basically threatened to slaughter everybody had the

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Speaker 1: US decided to come in. And that was a part

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Speaker 1: of the reason the Marines were sent down there, was

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Speaker 1: we went down there, you know, just fully combat loaded,

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Speaker 1: without any attachments, and we were able to patrol the

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Speaker 1: jungles without having the concerns of having a family with

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Speaker 1: us down there. And so that was a part of

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Speaker 1: setting the stage for operations with just cause. Yeah, a

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Speaker 1: lot of our guys who had been there a couple

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Speaker 1: of years had their wives and kids station down there,

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Speaker 1: and then they stopped that around it must have been

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Speaker 1: the end of eight I would think, yeah, and uh,

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Speaker 1: and then of course some of them, a lot of

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Speaker 1: the families are still there. You know. It is what

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Speaker 1: it is. So we all came through it and we're

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Speaker 1: all better for it. So absolutely, So let's talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit after your military career. Um, I know you

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Speaker 1: went into you work for some defense industries. Tell us

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Speaker 1: how you came about with you American Patriot? YEA, So

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Speaker 1: it was interesting. I was approached probably about six years

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Speaker 1: ago now by h my former battalion commander. He was

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Speaker 1: an Italian commander when I was a second lieutenant, and

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Speaker 1: I had a tremendous a man of respect. Still do

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Speaker 1: I have a tremendous man respect for this officer, Lieutenant

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Speaker 1: Colonel Bob Wyman. Uh. He's the chairman of United American

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Speaker 1: Patriots and uh. He started talking to me about this organization,

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Speaker 1: and literally I turned off when he was saying, these

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Speaker 1: guys were convicted of war crimes and we're gonna sit

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Speaker 1: here and fight for them. And as I just it

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Speaker 1: didn't make sense that, you know, myself and he and

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Speaker 1: many others had been to combat and none of our

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Speaker 1: marines had ever committed a war crime, much less been

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Speaker 1: accused of murder. And here these were many of these

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Speaker 1: individuals were accused of murder and were found guilty under

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Speaker 1: the U c m J by a military court martial.

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Speaker 1: And in my mind was, hey, you know, if they're guilty,

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Speaker 1: they're guilty, let let them rot. And it actually took

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Speaker 1: him three years to try and get me on board.

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Speaker 1: And uh, it was only after I went up on

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Speaker 1: Capitol Hill when they were putting on a presentation and

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Speaker 1: I finally sat and listened to what was going on.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't a matter of guilt or innocence. It

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Speaker 1: was a matter of individual warriors who were having their

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Speaker 1: rights violated, and it was about being set up against

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Speaker 1: very restrictive rules of engagement that put them in harm's way.

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Speaker 1: It was a denial of the presumption of innocence. A

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Speaker 1: lot of these cases that at the time were under

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Speaker 1: the Obama administration where a lot of our warriors were

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Speaker 1: pulled out of offensive missions and now we're in sort

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Speaker 1: of these defensive positions where they were being accused of

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Speaker 1: just about everything, and the US government was relying upon

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Speaker 1: the Afghan government and basically just say, yeah, our guys

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Speaker 1: are guilty, without ever finding out any of the details.

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Speaker 1: And we would see time and again prosecutorial misconduct, which

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Speaker 1: is where, for example, a sculptory information which is information

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Speaker 1: that shows that an accused did not commit a crime,

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Speaker 1: was being hidden. We would see uh, investigator abuse where

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Speaker 1: these investigators were trying to find a way to convict

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Speaker 1: individuals and aligned with the prosecution as opposed to trying

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Speaker 1: to find the truth and the facts. We would find

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Speaker 1: that there were other situations where unlawful command influence, where

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the commands, whether it be at

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Speaker 1: the highest level of a civilian leadership or all the

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Speaker 1: way down at military leadership, we're stacking the decks against

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Speaker 1: these warriors. And after I finally heard this, you know,

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Speaker 1: I got pretty upset, and I was asked if I

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Speaker 1: wanted to speak, and I did, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: that I brought down fire and brimstone, but I was

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Speaker 1: definitely emotional. And then after that, I was asked to

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Speaker 1: be U a P. S CEO. And at the time,

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Speaker 1: you know, my wife and I were looking at various

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Speaker 1: different options in private industry that we're going to uh

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Speaker 1: provide tremendous based salaries and equity and bonuses and all

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Speaker 1: the rest, all the financial trappings of a business career.

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Speaker 1: And UH talked to my wife about it, and I said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, what do you think about us just jumping

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Speaker 1: on U a P for about six months or a year,

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Speaker 1: just trying to help mount up from a business standpoint,

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Speaker 1: And UH, she could see that she was concerned because

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Speaker 1: it wasn't quite what we had lined up at the time,

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Speaker 1: and she thought about it, prayed about it, slept on it,

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Speaker 1: and the next morning she goes, we have to do

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Speaker 1: u a p and her perspective was, you know what,

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Speaker 1: we can always make money. We can. We're doing fine

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Speaker 1: where we are right now, but now let's focus on

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Speaker 1: these warriors who are being unjustly accused of war crimes

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Speaker 1: and let's take care of them. So it after about

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Speaker 1: and that we we said this, it was only going

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Speaker 1: to be a few months to a year, and now

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Speaker 1: it's been nearly three years that we've been on board

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Speaker 1: and it's uh, it's it's paid off. Just last year

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Speaker 1: we're able to see the president part in three of

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Speaker 1: the warriors we've been supporting. We had two warriors UH

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Speaker 1: paroled and got out of prison, and then we have

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Speaker 1: another another five where their cases were overturned. And we

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Speaker 1: just keep fighting to make sure that our warriors rights

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Speaker 1: are preserved. I know. And you know, it's funny you

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Speaker 1: mentioned that because um, a lot of what you just

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Speaker 1: said ran through with NEO. You know, we've all seen

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Speaker 1: that the military justice system, when it comes to minor things,

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Speaker 1: have made mistakes and we've seen that, but there was

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Speaker 1: never any kind of I don't want to say like, uh,

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Speaker 1: I guess I guess the correct word was of this

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Speaker 1: kind of hope in magnitude where guys being convicted of

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Speaker 1: murder and uh, you know, I was kind of the

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Speaker 1: same way. You know, you read about these guys, Oh

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Speaker 1: he's he's facing the court martial for murder and Afghan

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Speaker 1: civilian or after you know, Afghan civilian, and you automatically think, well,

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Speaker 1: they must have done it, you know. And then it

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Speaker 1: wasn't until later on. Uh, I was emailing back and

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Speaker 1: forth with the attorney for Clint Lauren through you guys

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Speaker 1: were very very involved with his story, and then reading

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Speaker 1: the transcript of everything that happened just absolutely blew me away.

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Speaker 1: How the government actually tried to railroad this kid, Well

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Speaker 1: they did. They did railroad it, no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: They convicted him of murder. And here was a first

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Speaker 1: lieutenant prior enlisted, so it wasn't just some you know,

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Speaker 1: blute lieutenant. He had experience. He was a staff in

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Speaker 1: SEO and uh he made a call in combat where uh,

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Speaker 1: motorcycle with three Taliban we're heading towards his patrol and

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Speaker 1: he told his soldiers to open up. They did, they

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Speaker 1: killed two of three. His unit continued to be engaged.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't a one time incident. It was there was

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Speaker 1: actually a U. S. Army report, a SIGAC talking about

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Speaker 1: how his unit was being set up for an ambush

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Speaker 1: or an attack, and the government buried that. They didn't

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Speaker 1: even introduce that as evidence. There was an aristatle operator

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Speaker 1: I in the sky that was watching what was happening,

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Speaker 1: and the operator even said he saw Taliban with a

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Speaker 1: K forty seven icon radios. He was very specific in

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Speaker 1: what he saw that were shadowing Clinton Rance's patrol at

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Speaker 1: the time. And uh And yet the government pressed to

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Speaker 1: get a conviction and they did, and in the courtroom

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Speaker 1: they kept talking about how Clinton Rance killed civilians and

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Speaker 1: he was found guilty. And when United American Patriots got involved,

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Speaker 1: and we had we were supporting the legal team of

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Speaker 1: John Marr and his legal team and had investigators over

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Speaker 1: in Afghanistan run the biometrics on these so called civilians

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Speaker 1: and as it turns out, they weren't civilians at all.

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Speaker 1: That their DNA, their fingerprints, and other biometrics were all

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Speaker 1: matching up with previous attacks on US soldiers from improvised

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Speaker 1: explosive devices. So these guys had either wounded or killed

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Speaker 1: other U S servicemen and in Zari, Afghanistan, they were

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Speaker 1: taking tremendous casualties at the time. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: clint Rance took over a platoon that the platoona leader

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Speaker 1: had actually been metavact with shrapnel wounds to his abdomen,

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Speaker 1: face and eyes and that was just a couple of

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Speaker 1: days prior to him taking over. So this was, you know,

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Speaker 1: a pretty bad area. Clint made the right call, brought

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Speaker 1: every one of his soldiers home alive, and the next

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Speaker 1: thing you know, they just railroaded him. And if you

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Speaker 1: look at the politics at the time, it was all

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Speaker 1: because of the Obama administration trying to work with the

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Speaker 1: cars Ie administration to reduce what was being accused of

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Speaker 1: too many civilian casualties, who was on the back to

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Speaker 1: back of multiple different incidents that were crazing creating a

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Speaker 1: lot of political turmoil from US Marine snipers who had

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Speaker 1: actually taken out the guys who had been harassing and

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Speaker 1: harmy Marines and then pissing on their dead bodies and

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Speaker 1: having that videotape that created an outrage. You had guards

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Speaker 1: at Bobrom, Afghanistan taking away books that the inmates were

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Speaker 1: writing notes in and passing around and burning them. And

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Speaker 1: it turns out there were all Kurans, and so all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, this looked like a horrible attack against Islam,

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Speaker 1: and that created an uproar both in the United States

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Speaker 1: and Afghanistan. And then you had Bob Bale's where he

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Speaker 1: he supposedly killed sixteen civilians and that that's a whole

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Speaker 1: separate case we could talk about. And again, nobody's no evidence.

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Speaker 1: It was all the Afghan word on what happened. And

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Speaker 1: so it was one thing after another leading up to this,

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, Clint lawrants situation happened

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Speaker 1: and they're like, you know what, we just have to

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Speaker 1: settle this. And a lot of it was that they

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Speaker 1: were not going to sign that Afghan government and the

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Speaker 1: US we're not going to sign the Status of Forces Agreement,

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Speaker 1: which is a major legal agreement between countries as to

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Speaker 1: who will handle who handle handle criminal cases should they

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Speaker 1: occur with US military serving overseas, and that agreement was

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Speaker 1: not signed until both Bob Bales and Clint Lawrants were

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Speaker 1: found guilty of murder and so there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of political pressure there and it wasn't until all of

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Speaker 1: this was brought up and briefed out to the President

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Speaker 1: United States that he was able to see through what

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Speaker 1: was actually happening and it was really a political lynching

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Speaker 1: and Clinton Rance received a pardon from the President. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, these are the type of cases that that

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Speaker 1: are shocking that you can't really believe that our US

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Speaker 1: government would do this against our own U S. Servicemen,

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Speaker 1: people who raise their hand to support and defend our rights,

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Speaker 1: and yet they aren't getting the same rights as you know,

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Speaker 1: some some civilian that might go into a school and

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Speaker 1: start gunning down children, that that individual will get more

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Speaker 1: rights than the US military person. So that that's basically

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Speaker 1: what U A. P stands for is defending the rights

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Speaker 1: of our defenders. Yeah, and you know again because we

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Speaker 1: had him on the podcast as fall after, he was

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Speaker 1: hard and um, it was just absolutely I mean, it

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Speaker 1: was mind boggling when you read about everything, like you

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Speaker 1: you the sky they were you know, they were making

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Speaker 1: a report that this union is about, i mean, the

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Speaker 1: guy to what Taliban bombmakers, all of this information will

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Speaker 1: available in the prosecution and they wouldn't allow to be shared.

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Speaker 1: It's exactly right, and not to mention that every one

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Speaker 1: of these soldiers in his unit were accused of murder.

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Speaker 1: And then they came around and said, all right, look,

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Speaker 1: we'll give you all amnesty so long as and and

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Speaker 1: then the commanding officer of the convening authority ordered them

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Speaker 1: to testify against Clint Laurance. And you know, so it's

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Speaker 1: there's a lot they went on here that is just

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Speaker 1: really bind boggling. It's and and it's frustrating. There's there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of challenges with the Uniform Code of Military Justice,

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Speaker 1: and you know, at the strategic level, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of things that need to be changed. But down at

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Speaker 1: the tactical level, we're seeing time and time again our

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Speaker 1: warriors are just not getting a fair shake, absolutely, and

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Speaker 1: there's too many of them. Because you're looking at your website,

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Speaker 1: I mean you're looking at all the guys that you've

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Speaker 1: been working with. It's, uh, it is mind boggling, and

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Speaker 1: it's awful. But so um, I know that you've had

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Speaker 1: quite a few success stories and uh, you know, we

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Speaker 1: thought we talked at the length about Clint, because you know,

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Speaker 1: I had got personally interested in that case. Um has

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Speaker 1: John hardly been released yet. I'm sorry I say that again,

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Speaker 1: John Hatley, Yeah, John Hatley. We were able to get

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Speaker 1: him clemency. He was put away from murder as well.

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Speaker 1: We got him clemency and then pardoned or supported him

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Speaker 1: getting clemency and pardon, and he got out and I

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Speaker 1: think it's just been about a month ago now and

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Speaker 1: it's back home with his family, got married, and he's

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Speaker 1: doing well. And here's you know, here's here's a perfect situation.

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Speaker 1: Here's you know, not just some young PFC that gets

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Speaker 1: caught up in something. This is a first sergeant, highly

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Speaker 1: decorated first sergeant. This guy was the guy who was

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Speaker 1: out on multiple combat patrols, who was actually in hundreds

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Speaker 1: of firefights. And as a first sergeant, you know, we

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Speaker 1: all know those guys who are out there leading the fight,

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Speaker 1: and then we know those who tend to sit back

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Speaker 1: in the rear. This guy was out there with every patrol,

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Speaker 1: leading the way. And whenever there was a young lieutenant

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Speaker 1: that would come into the command, you know, he would

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Speaker 1: say to the battalion commander, hey, let me take him out.

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Speaker 1: So he gets some experience before he goes down there

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Speaker 1: with his soldiers, because you know, when I take him out,

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Speaker 1: we're going to get into a firefight and and share enough,

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Speaker 1: that's what would happen. And so he was he was

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Speaker 1: a warrior, you know, still is a warrior, but on

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Speaker 1: the battlefield he was fearless. And what ended up happening

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Speaker 1: was he ended up getting convicted of murdering four detainees.

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Speaker 1: And the crime was horrific where he grabbed these four

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Speaker 1: people out of the village, drove him down to to

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Speaker 1: this farm by the side of a canal, and had

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Speaker 1: his soldiers basically shoot them execution style, and then kicked

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Speaker 1: them into the canal and took off. Horrific, horrific crime

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Speaker 1: if it actually happened. And that's the problem is that

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Speaker 1: in that situation they actually had c I d go

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Speaker 1: out and talk to the guy who owned the farm

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Speaker 1: and said, to you, tell us about when these guys

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Speaker 1: came onto your farm. And they said, nobody ever came

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Speaker 1: onto my farm. And they're like, well, maybe they did.

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Speaker 1: You didn't know it. He goes, no, I would have known.

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Speaker 1: And they said, well, do you mind if we look

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Speaker 1: around help yourself, and they went out and they looked

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Speaker 1: at the location where supposedly these four individuals were killed,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they looked in the grass of the dirt,

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Speaker 1: and they tried to find any sort of forensic evidence

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Speaker 1: like maybe blood, spelladder, or bullets or shell casings or something. Nothing. Well,

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Speaker 1: they figured, all right, well maybe it all, you know,

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Speaker 1: let's go get the bodies out of the canal. They

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Speaker 1: put divers into the canal and they they dredge that.

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Speaker 1: They searched that thing and guess what not one body,

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Speaker 1: not one bullet, not one casing, not one piece of clothing,

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Speaker 1: not one bit of physical evidence. Well, he said, all right, well,

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Speaker 1: let's go to the village then that apparently these civilians

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Speaker 1: were taken out of, or these detainees were taken out of,

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Speaker 1: and they said, is anybody missing? People said no, well

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Speaker 1: did anybody get killed? No? Like, well, listen, we have

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Speaker 1: money here, you know, we we're gonna pay you if

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Speaker 1: your family members were killed, they said, when none of

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Speaker 1: our family members were killed. So there was no physical

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Speaker 1: evidence whatsoever. And yet they found him guilty all based

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Speaker 1: upon testimony of another individual who is being held accountable

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Speaker 1: for crimes, and just the crimes were not as as sexy,

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Speaker 1: let's say, as murder and so at the prosecution and

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Speaker 1: the c I D all focused on this, this horrific

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Speaker 1: murder case instead of really focusing on the problem of

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Speaker 1: this one individ to a line and they coerced other

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Speaker 1: junior enlisted soldiers to testify, and they said this never happened.

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Speaker 1: And they produced documents saying that the first sergeant said

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Speaker 1: you did it, and here's his signature. They were all

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Speaker 1: faked documents with forged signatures. And unfortunately, John Hatley, again,

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Speaker 1: this highly decorative warrior, was put away from murder and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, to meet him, though his spirit is unbroken,

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Speaker 1: he still loves his country, still loves the army, doesn't

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Speaker 1: like what happened to him through the U C MJ.

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Speaker 1: But he's never admitted guilt and he never will because

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Speaker 1: you know, they kept trying to hold up said listen,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna shorten your sentence this and the other thing

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Speaker 1: if you admit guilty. Because I can't. I'm I'm a

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Speaker 1: staff n seal in the United States Army. I can't

429
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: perjure my integrity for my own personal well being, so

430
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: I can't make up a lie. I can't say I

431
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: did something I didn't and uh, fortunately we were able

432
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 1: to get him out, but you know, he spent nearly

433
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: a dozen years in prison, and that these are the

434
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: type of things that they're shocking when you get into

435
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: the details. And we we were able to present this

436
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 1: to a bunch of congressmen who were shocked themselves. The

437
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: you know where it gets worse, though, is that the U. S.

438
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: Army circles the wagons when all of a sudden they're challenged,

439
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: as opposed to saying, hold on a second, let's let's

440
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: make sure we've got this right. And Congressman Flores Uh

441
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: out of Texas, he was one of the key congressmen

442
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: who really took up the battle early on, and the

443
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: family of John Hatley said, you know, sir, will you

444
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 1: please look into this, And being you know, very intelligent

445
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: and well read congressman, he said, all right, you know, certainly,

446
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: I'll meet with you. But he did his due diligence first,

447
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: and he met with the army. He found out all

448
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: the details, and when he met with the family, he

449
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: found out there were two separate facts, if you will,

450
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: there was two separate realities, and it upset Congressman Flores

451
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: because he saw that what the U. S. Army was

452
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 1: telling him just wasn't true and the evidence just wasn't there.

453
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: And he really led the fight, and we had Congressman

454
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: Gohmert got on board, and we now have what's called

455
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: Justice for Warriors Caucus up on Capitol Hill with about

456
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: a dozen congressmen who are really looking into all of

457
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: these injustices to make sure that our warriors when they enlist,

458
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: when they get commissioned, when they go into combat, they're

459
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: gonna have their rights preserved and that even if they

460
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: do something wrong, they will have their rights preserved. And

461
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: that's really the key here that I couldn't agree with

462
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: you more there, because that's, uh, that's the most important thing.

463
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: I mean, whether they're guilty or not, and the one

464
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: thing that our system always guarantees the right to a

465
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: fair trial. And you know what I'm reading about a

466
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: lot of these guys, and they catch exactly. And so

467
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 1: let me talk to you about your organization a little bit. Um. Now,

468
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: how how does the ua T go about helping these

469
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: guys that obviously need your help. I know your your

470
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: backgrounds the infantry officer, but do you have awful lawyers

471
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: on board, you know. So it's interesting. So our mission

472
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: is to make sure that we inform the President, Congress,

473
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: in the public that we fund the legal representation, and

474
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 1: then eventually we try to support the reintegration of our

475
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: warriors who were wrongfully accused and unjustly convicted war crimes.

476
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: So we don't have any lawyers actually on board. And

477
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: the reason that is is that our warriors we support

478
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: them directly, but they can't afford civilian lawyers. They would

479
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 1: have to mortgage their homes, they would have to you know, beg. Barnes,

480
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: steal from their family, they would have to do whatever

481
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: it is and most of and they still would fall short.

482
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: So we say, look, you can choose whichever attorney you want,

483
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: and then we will provide the financial support not just

484
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: for that attorney, but for any investigative work, any reports,

485
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: anything that goes into supporting your case. So that way

486
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: we don't interfere with the attorney client privilege. And yet

487
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: at the same time, we work very closely with the

488
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: attorneys making sure that they're providing us information that we

489
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: can share with our elected representatives, and we also make

490
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: sure that as they're trying to do various different things.

491
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: They're coordinating with us and say, look, we we need

492
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: you know, this sort of demonstrative report or demonstrate or

493
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: a graphic or whatever, and we try to figure out

494
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: how to support that. So our job really is, in

495
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: a sense of marketing arm trying to get this word

496
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: out to the public, because we're all based on charitable donations,

497
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: and unlike some of the other organizations out there that

498
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: have multimillionaires and billionaires that throw in millions of dollars

499
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: behind them, we're out there dealing with a grassroot movement

500
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: where you know, we we have hundreds of thousands of

501
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: individuals who are chipping in an average of about thirty

502
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: nine dollars apiece. And you know, quite frankly, you know,

503
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: our our biggest supporters tend to be what I say

504
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: is Grandmind Peoria, who's you know, these these patriotic people

505
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: in the heartland who are just like you know, we're

506
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: not going to allow this to happen to our warriors.

507
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: And the more people find out, the more donations we

508
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: get from across the board. Uh, you know, I think

509
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: our largest individual donation was for thirty thousand dollars, which

510
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: is tremendous but that's very rare. We've had, you know,

511
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: a couple of others that have provided ten thousand dollars

512
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: and other than that, though, really it's it's chips here

513
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: and there, and part of that goes towards us, I said,

514
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: providing that legal representation, but also making sure we're communicating

515
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: up on Capitol Hill and making sure our elected representatives

516
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: know what's going on. Yeah, and when you're dealing with investigations,

517
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: a lot of these cases are I mean, let's they're

518
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: going to be in Afghanistan, Iraq or wherever. It's not

519
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: going to be cheaper investigation because I'm sure and like

520
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, the army kind of circles the wagons

521
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: that have they been cooperative the military and some of

522
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: these investigations or is it kind of a yeah, I

523
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: wouldn't imagine. I wouldn't imagine they had been not at all.

524
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: And and they, you know, they go out of the

525
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: way to hinder investigations. We saw Army Special Forces Matt Goldstein,

526
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: who you know, here here's another great warrior who was

527
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,239
Speaker 1: was doing everything he's supposed to be doing, and all

528
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: of a sudden they accused him of killing a detainee,

529
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: which was not the case. And this case went on

530
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: for years, and uh, it just the U. S. Government

531
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: just said, we're gonna find more evidence. We're gonna find

532
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: more evidence, and they sent an investigator over to Afghanistan

533
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: to get more evidence. And I sat in on the

534
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: Motions hearing where this investigator he was being questioned, and uh,

535
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: you know, they asked him like, so these individuals that

536
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: you that you questioned, like, yes, these were family members

537
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: of the individual that met goals the quote unquote murdered

538
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: and uh they said he was not Taliban. And so

539
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: the question was, well, how did you know these were

540
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: family members? They said, oh, well the locals told us

541
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: that they were. Like okay, well the locals there are

542
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: all Taliban, so certainly you check their i D. And

543
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: they said, well no, they didn't have any I D.

544
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: But wait a second. You brought them onto a U. S.

545
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: Military base. How could you do that. You can't bring

546
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: random people onto a US military base. And we have

547
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: tremendous biometric databases to ensure that we're not bringing enemy

548
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: combatants on the base. Well that's true, but they didn't

549
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: have ideas. We just brought them on. And then it

550
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: gets worse. Then they sat them in the same room

551
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: and they started questioning them. And the question to the investigators,

552
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: wait this secain, is that the best practice? Well, no,

553
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: the best practices the interview and interrogate people individually. But

554
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: we we didn't have a lot of room at the time,

555
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: and we didn't have a lot of people that we

556
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: could use to separate them. Like, wait a second, this

557
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: is a capital murder case that you're running against one

558
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,959
Speaker 1: of our most highly decorated special operators, and you couldn't

559
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: find one other soldier to detain one of these quote

560
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: unquote witnesses while you interrogated one at a time. Well,

561
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: you know, it couldn't happen time that. It was every

562
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: excuse you could imagine. And so the defense was great,

563
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: now we want to go over there and and interview

564
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,959
Speaker 1: these same people. We can't do that because of secure

565
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: already in a million and one other reasons, and it's

566
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: just it's one of these things where they they have

567
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: all of the resources at their disposal, and only if

568
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: they want to share those resources will the defense get

569
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: the ability to go overseas, have the security and be

570
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: able to conduct interviews or investigations and all the rest.

571
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: So it's it's very challenging and we see it time

572
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: and again where you know, many cases there are no

573
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: bodies presented, so there's no forensics, so you can't really tell,

574
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: you know, how the individual died. We said a first

575
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Michael Behenna, which was a unique case in that

576
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 1: in that case they actually did have the body and

577
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: they actually did conduct forensics. And Behenna was accused of

578
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: murdering this individual. And Behenna said, no, I acted in

579
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 1: self defense. And so the prosecution hired a forensic expert,

580
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: one of the best in the country, and he went

581
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: and said, based upon the forensics, Michael Behanna is telling

582
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: the truth. It shows that the bullet wounds are consistent

583
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: with Michael Behenna acting in self defense. So what the

584
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: government do. They fired that expert and they buried that report,

585
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: and that report never came to trial, and it wasn't

586
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 1: until later on under appeal that all of this was

587
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: dug up. And you know, fortunately Michael Behanna, another great warrior, uh,

588
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: the President United States pardoned him because this is not

589
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 1: we we we we should not can be conducting kangaroo courts.

590
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 1: The rule of law must come paramount and basically the warriors,

591
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: though they actually fall under the laws of war, which

592
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: are much different from even the rules of law. But

593
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: we see this time and again and it's and those

594
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: are the type of things where the government has to

595
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: know there's a watchdog that's gonna be checking everything that's

596
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,280
Speaker 1: happening here, and that's United American Patriots and the hundreds

597
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: of thousands of people supporting us that are saying, look,

598
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: if you want to find someone guilty, that's fine, we

599
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 1: support that. We do not support you violating an individual's rights,

600
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: especially not a warrior's rights. And I wanted to ask

601
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: you about there was one case that I had never

602
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: heard of before, and that was first Lieutenant Sean Blair.

603
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, reading through your website, I never

604
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: remember seeing this, uh in any of the stuff that

605
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: you see on the news or in publications or wherever.

606
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: Can you fill us in a little bit about that,

607
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: you know? I apologize I can't really talk in detail

608
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 1: about Blair's case because that happened long before I came

609
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: on board, so I don't know the details, and I

610
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: don't want to screw that up. Okay, that's fine. That

611
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: was just the one that that stood out because I

612
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: had never heard of that, uh that case before, but

613
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: I know that they eventually got the charges dismissed, which

614
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: is a good thing. Um absolutely now uh u A

615
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: he started one back in two thousand five, and it

616
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: was a former Marine Corps officer that started it. Am

617
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: I right, that's true. It was actually uh Major Donahue

618
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: built Donna Hue. Uh. He was a Vietnam era marine,

619
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: multiple purple hearts, multiple decorations, Bronze Star, silver star. Uh.

620
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: Just a true warrior. Actually caught a round to the

621
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: jaw as he was a doorgunner doing an extract one time.

622
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: And uh just an incredible individual who in two thousand

623
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 1: and five he saw the Haditha and Hamdania Marines being

624
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: marched around at orange jumpsuits and shackles, and we had

625
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: congressmen calling them murderers, jack murder. But you know, he

626
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 1: was sitting here, you know, and he's a former marine.

627
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: He is one of the few former marines. Everybody else

628
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: wants a marine, always marine. But a lot of people

629
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: feel he gave up his uh title once he started

630
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: calling people murderers before they had even had their rig

631
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 1: is pressed against them. This was all here saying a

632
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: lot of stories at the time, and and that's, you know,

633
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: an example of the highest level of unlawful command influence. So, um,

634
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: what happened was Major Donohue came along and said, now

635
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: that's not happening, and he actually mortgaged this house to

636
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: get this organization started. And uh, it took a long

637
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 1: time for it to start gaining momentum. But he's still

638
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: around and he's a great individual. And he and I

639
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: talked probably about once once a week or so, and

640
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: right now he's going he's got some medical challenges, but

641
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: he's a tough fighter and he's not going anywhere. It's

642
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: good to hear. And you know, it's amazing that we

643
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: have this many cases uh that's going on with our military.

644
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: And I know, you know, we've been in combat for

645
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 1: a very long time, but there shouldn't be this many

646
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 1: cases that are out there's not having um the correct

647
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: amount of protection under our laws. Because that's the absolutely

648
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: explain to our listeners how they can go about and help,

649
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: how they can possibly volunteer if they want to get involved. Absolutely, so,

650
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: first of all, whenever we have, uh, anybody who wants

651
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: to get involved, and we get phone calls quite often

652
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: people who have interesting backgrounds, whether they be investigators, whether

653
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: they be people who have contacts a lot of times,

654
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: right now we're talking to some interesting people in Hollywood

655
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 1: who are working on trying to do documentaries and actually

656
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: full feature films of some of the warriors that were

657
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: supporting and trying to get the word out there. Uh So,

658
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: any any time somebody has a connection or network that

659
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: might be beneficial where they can find people with influence

660
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: who can help out. Certainly, we we welcome people calling in. Uh.

661
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: Donations obviously are always appreciated. U AP dot org. That's

662
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: our website, you AP dot org, and it's it's very

663
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: easy to donate there. You can donate generally or can

664
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 1: donate to an individual group of warriors and uh it's

665
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: uh you know, we also have people you know that

666
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: are local in uh Northern Virginia that come in and

667
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: volunteer to help out with going through our mail, making

668
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 1: phone calls on our behalf and just trying to support

669
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: as best they can. So Bill tell us about some

670
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: of the other cases that are ongoing with the with

671
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: the U A P. And how our listeners can get

672
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: involved and let people know that they're supporting all of

673
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: our warriors that are out there. Certainly. So one of

674
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: the cases that's relatively unique to uh U a P

675
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: is the case in support of the MARSOC three. And

676
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: that's how we refer to them. It's two gunnery sergeants

677
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: and one Navy chief, all three who are raiders who

678
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: with the Marine Special Operations Command. And this is a

679
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: unique case in that, UH, they actually there was an

680
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: incident in which they had an aggressor going against them,

681
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: and UH alcohol was involved on the suggressor's part and

682
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 1: he was being a little bit too aggressive that the

683
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: instigator he was pulled out of the bar that they

684
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: were in. And it's all actually having an or beal

685
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: Iraq and UH it's uh strange that you know, here

686
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 1: in the Iraq, which is considered in essence of combat zone,

687
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: this was a relatively safe place and that UH soldiers

688
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,479
Speaker 1: brains were allowed off base and this was New Year's

689
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: and they were allowed out for a bit and next

690
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: thing you know, incident happens. Navy Chief Gilman he was

691
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: being harassed by this civilian contractor who actually used to

692
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 1: be a former Army Special Forces and UH he was

693
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: escorted out of the bar, and next thing you know,

694
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 1: the the raiders were asked to hold and you know,

695
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: let him kind of take off so there wouldn't be

696
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: the incident. They were kind of waiting outside for a fight,

697
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: and they finally walked away. And as there as the

698
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: raiders left, Chief Gilness telling Gunnery Satan, Danny drey Or

699
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: what happened and that some sort of a conflict was here.

700
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: You know, Gunnery Star and dre are been a good

701
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: senior staff an. CEO said all right, well, we can't

702
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: have conflicts. We're all sitting out here working together for

703
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: the same mission against real bad guys. So he decides

704
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: to go over and talk to this contractor and basically say, hey,

705
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: you know what's going on, let's knock this off. And

706
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: the contractor didn't take kindly to it. Was very aggressive,

707
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: started poking Gunnery Start and Dreyer in the chest. It's

708
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: kind of yelling and spitting on him, and next thing

709
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: you know, he makes this aggressive move towards him. Danny

710
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: Dryer pushes him away and uh, next thing you know,

711
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: his contractor comes at Danny Dryer swings hits him twice,

712
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: and Danny's kind of shocked because he's like, you know,

713
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: what the hell is going on. One of the other

714
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: raiders Gunnery Start didn't have grown Josh the grown about

715
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: a hundred fifty five pounds, small guy, you know, half

716
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: the size of his contractor. And Danny heat steps in

717
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 1: this contractor. Once contractor goes down, and uh, basically the

718
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: you know, all the contractors friends, they kind of say

719
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: all right, well whatever, and they kind of walk off.

720
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: And yet you got these three raiders. You know, these

721
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: guys were born to serve. You know, these are some

722
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: of the best of the best, you know, and listening

723
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: to the Marines then we're forced reconnaissance Marines and then

724
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: went on to be raiders. I mean, there's some of

725
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: the best of the best we have. Uh. They they're like,

726
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: all right, we're not leaving this guy in the street,

727
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: you know, and inter rack. You know, even even if

728
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: you know he was intoxicated and was acting a little

729
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: bit too aggressive, you know, we're gonna take care of

730
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 1: this guy. They bring him back to their barracks there

731
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: and it wasn't barracks, I guess the garrison where they

732
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 1: were staying. And Chief Kilman, who was a senior medical

733
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: adviser at the time. You know, here's a special uh

734
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: independent duty corman, special operations independent duty corman. You know,

735
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: one of the again one of the best trained medical

736
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 1: advisors we have or practitioners, i should say. He assesses

737
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: him and says, look, all his vitals are good, everything's fine,

738
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: but just put him in the rack. Let's like, let's

739
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 1: watch him for a bit and make sure he's stabilized,

740
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: which he was, and then they advised one of the

741
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: other contractors keep an eye on him. And at a

742
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: certain point, apparently the contractors stopped breathing and the other

743
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: contractor grabbed Chief Gilman and the rest they came and

744
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: tried doing some heroic life savings steps on this guy

745
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: and they met of act him out. He end up

746
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: going to land Still, Germany, and unfortunately, four days later

747
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: he died and the determination was he asphyxiated. He grew

748
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: up and end up swallowing his own vomit into his

749
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: lungs and died. Horrific situation like this is not uh no,

750
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: nobody's celebrating, like, hey, the Marines beat up Special Forces guy,

751
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: Like not at all. This was a horrible situation. But

752
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: there was again a rush to judgment to where all

753
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the commanding general of Marsock General you uh, he,

754
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: he's sitting here, you know, making condolences to the family,

755
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: goes to the funeral of this contractor, and the rumors

756
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 1: start spreading that these raiders basically had boot stomped this

757
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: contractor and three of them against one and they beat

758
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: him up and it was, you know, this drunken murder,

759
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 1: and it was just the stories were horrific, and yet

760
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: again there there was no assessment of what actually had happened.

761
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: Yet and before you know it, these three raiders they

762
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: lose their security clearances that pulled out of there there,

763
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: out of the line. So they're not even doing what

764
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: the supposed to be doing there, you know, basically working

765
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: in the barracks, work in the gym, working you know,

766
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: basically handing out crap in the hospital. And nobody had

767
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: actually even asked them what had happened. Again, it was

768
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: a presumption of guilt. And a lot of this goes

769
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: to the you know, sort of the misconception and the

770
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 1: prejudice against our special operators that you know, these guys

771
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: are cowboys and you know they don't abide by the rules.

772
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: We need to tighten them up, they need more discipline.

773
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: And you know, here's an example of you know, we're

774
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: going to make an example of these three guys, like

775
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: this is not what you do when you walk base.

776
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: You don't get into fights. You don't do it. But

777
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 1: they didn't start the fight, and they acted appropriately every

778
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: step of the way, trying to de escalate the situation

779
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: and even caring for this individual. Now, now, how do

780
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: we know that that's the case, because all of this

781
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: was captured on security cameras and you see step by

782
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: step that every step of the way, even inside the bar,

783
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: outside talking to them, that at every point of the

784
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 1: way they were trying to de escalate the situation. They

785
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: were not trying to create a fight. And yet the

786
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: prosecutors came in here, uh, they've charged these three with manslaughter,

787
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 1: and they're trying to hold them accountable, you know, and

788
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 1: the article thirty two here, and even the judge says,

789
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: you know, this looks like it might be a case

790
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: of self defense or defense of others, and yet they're

791
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: moving forward with a court martial. And you know, it's

792
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 1: one of these things where the presumption of guilt is

793
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,919
Speaker 1: holding over these guys as opposed to the commanders saying

794
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna go with the presumption of innocence. And a

795
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: part of that is the commanders could easily say, well,

796
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: you know what, I did, the right thing. I referred

797
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:31,919
Speaker 1: to to court marshal. You know, well, it will allow

798
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: the facts to play out there, as opposed to saying,

799
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: you know what, from everything I see, I'm gonna make

800
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: a command decision because I am a commander who has

801
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: been put here supposedly because I know how to make

802
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: the right decisions. And yet when it comes to legal

803
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: matters or administrative matters, we defer to the courts. And unfortunately,

804
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: depending on you know, where you are, in various different conflicts,

805
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: we've seen up the condition rates court martials that the

806
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:06,280
Speaker 1: system is so lopsided that you're basically condemning these guys.

807
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: You're you're not giving them a fair fight. And and

808
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: just to kind of go into why that is that

809
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 1: in cases where you've got court martials concerning murder that

810
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: you don't need a unanimous jury, you only need three

811
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: quarters of the jury, and other cases you only need

812
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 1: two thirds of the jury. And why is that really bad?

813
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: Because again, that's the presumption of guilt. You're not giving

814
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: these guys the benefit of the doubt that you don't

815
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 1: give them the present presumption of innocence as a civilian

816
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: court does. Secondly, where it's frustrating is that the convening authority,

817
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: the one who's calling this court martial, he presents the

818
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: soldiers or marines who are gonna be sitting on the

819
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: trials court martial in the jury and so the deck

820
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: is getting stacked to begin with. And why this is

821
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: really terrible as if you think about it, if you

822
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: know I as it, retired marine or any civilian gets

823
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 1: selected for jury duty out in the civilian world, we

824
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,439
Speaker 1: will go, we'll sit there in the jury, will listen

825
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: to the facts, and we'll make a determination based upon

826
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: how we assess the facts and perhaps our own moral

827
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: or ethical convictions, and will come out and we'll say

828
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: it is it are guilty or guilty not guilty. But

829
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: that's not the case in the military because there's another

830
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: factor that comes into play, and that factor is how

831
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 1: will my decision impact my career? How will it impact

832
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,280
Speaker 1: my personal life. Now, this is a very different situation

833
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,919
Speaker 1: because that shouldn't come into play at all, but it does.

834
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: Because let's say you're one of the one third that

835
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: finds someone not guilty, and let's say your boss happens

836
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: to be sitting on that panel on that jury. Now,

837
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the boss is going to go

838
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: back to the convening authority and say, hey, just what, girlfriend,

839
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: I'm questioning his judgment. You know, he he thought they

840
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: were not guilty. Obviously, you commanding General thought they were

841
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: guilty because you referred them to court martial. I voted

842
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: for them to be guilty, and and they were found guilty.

843
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: But girlfriend, I'm not so sure about him. And to

844
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: think that that won't impact someone's career when it's within

845
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: the same command, especially in the tight enit special operations community,

846
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: that could be a kiss of death. So I'd like

847
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: to believe that any of our warriors that are sitting

848
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: on juries are going to make the right ethical decision,

849
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: regardless of how it would impact them personally. However, you

850
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: just don't know that to be true, and you just

851
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: don't realize that, you know what, somebody might have to

852
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: pay a mortgage and them losing their career. That might

853
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: hurt that. And so now they're thinking about their family,

854
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: their house, their dog, their cat. Again not none of

855
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: that should play into a decision that's going to determine

856
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: the fate of someone else's life. And this is really challenging.

857
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: And this kind of brings us to another case where, uh,

858
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: staffs aren't Gibbs. Right now, he's up for clemency. This

859
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: is an individual war fighter who was found guilty of murder. Again,

860
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: no hard evidence, uh, no bodies, no forensics, uh nothing.

861
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: It was purely based upon testimony by others that found

862
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 1: him guilty. And and it was others who are actually

863
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: looking out for their own well being, and uh, there

864
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: was enough to convict them, but would end up or

865
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 1: convict him. Staffs aren't Gibbs. And what's interesting is that

866
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,760
Speaker 1: in staffs aren't Gibbs case. You know, here's an infantry

867
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: staff n CEO, and yet there was not one infantry

868
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 1: soldier sitting in the jury. As a matter of fact,

869
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 1: I believe they were all military policemen. And which is

870
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 1: bizarre because where this the court martial actually took place

871
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: is I see where the second Infantry Division is garrison.

872
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: So certainly they could have found at least one infantry

873
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: soldier that could have sat there on the jury, and

874
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 1: yet they didn't. They stacked it with military policemen that

875
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: have a different perspective from our infantry and should it

876
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: would be you know, imagine somebody going and uh, you know,

877
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: being accused of a crime and packing the uh, packing

878
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: the jury with police officers like you don't do that.

879
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happened here in Calvin's case. And

880
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: we've we saw in Calvin's case again the three individuals

881
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:42,479
Speaker 1: that that testified against Calvin, not only were they looking

882
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 1: out for their own well being, but they were allowed

883
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 1: to talk amongst themselves actually while smoking Hashi's driving around

884
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: Candahart Air Course base and and corroborate their story to

885
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: make sure that they sold the squad leader, Calvin Gibbs,

886
00:52:56,080 --> 00:53:01,359
Speaker 1: down the down the road. And more over, in Gibbs case,

887
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: we saw that there are two material eyewitnesses who could

888
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: have come in and said, yeah, Calvin Gibbs did not

889
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: commit these crimes, did not commit murder, and yet they

890
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 1: were not brought in to testify. So these are the

891
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,479
Speaker 1: type of things where you know, staff are gives, people

892
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 1: have raised other issues about some of the things he

893
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: did wrong. It's a great hold him accountable for that

894
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: which he did wrong. But you can't parlay that into oh, well,

895
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: he did these things wrong, so obviously he's a murderer.

896
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 1: That's not the way it works, because you have to

897
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: find hard evidence. And yet we see time and again

898
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:43,280
Speaker 1: that even with evidence like the videotapes in the Marsoc

899
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 1: three case or in this case with sass Are and

900
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 1: Gibbs and others where you don't have hard evidence, that

901
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 1: guys are being found guilty and and again, hold people

902
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 1: accountable for what they did wrong, but do not trump

903
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,239
Speaker 1: up charges. Don't get over zealous prosecutors who were trying

904
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: to get bigger hills, and and just people understand, I

905
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: get World War two. What we used to have court

906
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 1: martials that the way that would be done is they say, hey,

907
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 1: let's grab this infantry officer and this artillery officer and

908
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: you know, have them be the defense and have them

909
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: be the prosecution, and let's find out the truth in

910
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: this individual case. And that's not what's happening anymore. Now

911
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: we have professional attorneys. And these attorneys go from law school,

912
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: they go through sixteen weeks of training to figure out

913
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: how to put their uniform on and learn military jargon

914
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: and then the next thing, you know, their careers are

915
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: based upon their prosecutions, how successful are they in getting

916
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: quote unquote kills under their belt, which are fellow servicemen.

917
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: And so unlike the World War Two infantry officer artillery

918
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: officer that played attorney that then would go back to

919
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: their career and be assessed for promotion based upon, you know,

920
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: whether they were good infantry officers or artillery officers, these

921
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: attorneys are being held accountable as attorneys. So they've got

922
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: a very different mindset and and that's troubling when all

923
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: of a sudden you've got these professional attorneys that that

924
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: have an incentive within you armed forces, under the same

925
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: convening authority to try and find guilt, and it sets

926
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: them up for prosecutorial misconduct for hiding a sculpratory information,

927
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,720
Speaker 1: for trying to get a bigger kill, like for somebody

928
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: to get a murder case or manslaughter case, instead of

929
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: you know, just saying well, okay that we don't see

930
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: it here. This it sents a very troubling precedent, especially

931
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:48,959
Speaker 1: when we have never had one military prosecutor being held

932
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: accountable for prosecutorial misconduct a crime, never once like administratively.

933
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: Perhaps they may have been moved off a case or

934
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: something else, but they've never been held criminally accountable, and

935
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: they should. You know, we can talk about Eddie Gallagher's case,

936
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: where I know there's a lot of conflict, there's when

937
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: people you know, are concerned about how that whole case

938
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 1: played out. But at the end of the day, the

939
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: prosecutors spied on the attorney client privilege. They put spywear

940
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: on emails that they were sending to the defense attorney.

941
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: That is a criminal act. And what happens to that prosecute, Well,

942
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: they just moved him off the case. No, that's that's

943
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: a criminal act. Why wasn't he held accountable? And time

944
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: and again we see this happening, and for them, when

945
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: they look at the risk reward, it's like, well, if

946
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: I get a kill here, I get promoted. If I

947
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 1: get caught, well, no big deal. There's no real downside

948
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: for these guys. And and that's where we need to

949
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 1: start holding people accountable and making sure that the right

950
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 1: things are happening at the right time for the right reasons. Again,

951
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: we're not determining innocence or guilt, We're just preserving the

952
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 1: end individuals rights, And if I could just talk about

953
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 1: about one more piece, there are organizations out there like

954
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 1: the Innocence Project or the a c l U that

955
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: if they hear that there's an individual civilian sitting on

956
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 1: death row for committing some horrific crime, whatever it is, rape,

957
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 1: murdered you, whatever you want to imagine, the most horrific

958
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 1: crime you can imagine. And yet they find out that

959
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: guess what, that that individual's rights were violated, whether it's

960
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:37,439
Speaker 1: unlawful search and seizure or inappropriate you know, the wrong

961
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: DNA was identified or or anything else, that individual, they

962
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 1: will fight as hard as they can to get that

963
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: individual off of death row. And quite frankly, that's the

964
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 1: right thing to do, because any individual's wrongdoing does not

965
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: outweigh all of our rights. Our rights must be preserved

966
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: and it we don't see these same organizations fighting for

967
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: our warriors when our warriors are having their rights preserved.

968
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: And as we all know, the only reason that we

969
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 1: have our rights is because we have individual warriors that

970
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: are willing to support and defend our constitution, which is

971
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 1: our rights. And those warriors don't get the same benefit

972
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: of the doubt. They don't get the presumption of innocence.

973
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 1: They don't get the same standards of a civilian court.

974
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 1: And so this is where you ap dot Org. We're

975
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 1: going to continue to fight to make sure that our

976
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: warriors are having at least equal justice. Uh. I think

977
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 1: that's fantastic, and you know, I think all of our

978
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: listeners fully support that. I mean, again, you talked about prosecutor,

979
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: you know, prosecutor prosecute misconduct. I'm getting all tongue tied.

980
00:58:56,400 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: This happen do yeah, And you know, the first thing

981
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 1: that came to mind was the Eddie Gallagher case and uh,

982
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 1: you know what happened there was just again mind boggling.

983
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 1: And then I, like I said, I was, you know,

984
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: heavily read in on what was going on with Clint Lawrence.

985
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: But there's many more cases that you guys have been

986
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: involved with, obviously, and it's just, um, it's it's shocking

987
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: because we don't usually equate that with the country that

988
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: we live in. We're supposed to be the people that

989
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: played by the rules and take care of everyone, and

990
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: we take care of our civilians for for the most

991
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 1: part in the civilian courts. But we're not doing a

992
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 1: good enough job when it comes to the military guys, Well,

993
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: that's definitely true. I mean, you know, here's another situation

994
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: is UH staffs are Bob Bales and this is you

995
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: know case the Canada har massacre and UH snaps are

996
00:59:54,640 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 1: Bails confessed the killing sixteen civilians and whether or not

997
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: he actually killed sixteen or as some would say, twenty,

998
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,520
Speaker 1: and whether or not they were all civilians. We don't

999
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: know why because the US government never saw the bodies,

1000
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: never conducted forensics, never did autopsies. The Afghan government claimed

1001
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 1: that's what happened, and that was it. It wasn't until

1002
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 1: a month after when all the bodies have been buried,

1003
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 1: and well they were buried the next day that c

1004
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: i D actually went out and conducted a limited investigation

1005
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: because they told that it's too dangerous of an environment

1006
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: for them to be out there. But they conducted a

1007
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:37,959
Speaker 1: very limited investigation, and they came back and they held

1008
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: Bob accountable for these crimes. And you know, here's an

1009
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: individual where you know, Bob was frustrated. He felt that

1010
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: again the defensive posture that was happening at the time

1011
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 1: was not conducive to how they should be prosecuting the

1012
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 1: war and he basically decided to take the warrant his

1013
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: own hands and step off base and go out with

1014
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: the intent to kill enemy combatants. And unfortunately he did

1015
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: kill civilians and he acknowledges that, and uh, that still

1016
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 1: haunts him. But what ends up happening is that when

1017
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: he came back that there was this rush to judgment.

1018
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: There was they immediately put the death penalty on the

1019
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 1: table and they said, look, sign this confession that you

1020
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: killed these sixties of Williams, or we're gonna hold you

1021
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 1: accountable for the death penalty and we're gonna take you

1022
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: to trial and we will find you guilty. And they

1023
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: pressured him. The prosecution pressured him. They had others were saying, look,

1024
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 1: Bob just signed this confession because there's so many people

1025
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 1: US troops that are now their lives are endangered because

1026
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 1: what you did. And then yet his defense attorney saying,

1027
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: Bob just signed this so they don't hold you accountable

1028
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: for the death penalty. And his own wife said said, Bob,

1029
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: please do whatever it takes so they don't kill you.

1030
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 1: We have two children, and Bob's an amazing family man.

1031
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 1: Even while he's been in prison, he does homework with

1032
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 1: his kids, his kids going to visit with him, or

1033
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: at least they did before the COVID lockdown. And and

1034
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 1: he's sitting here doing homework with his kids and talks

1035
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 1: to his kids all the time. His wife moved close

1036
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 1: to the prison so that they can maintain a relationship.

1037
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: I mean, this is not some you know, horrible, horrible,

1038
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 1: evil monster as they point him out to be. However,

1039
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: here's the thing. Even if Bob committed these horrific crimes

1040
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 1: and decide to walk off based by himself and do this, well,

1041
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 1: anybody who knows the facts of the case, they immediately say, wow,

1042
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 1: that's crazy. You know, him walking off by himself to

1043
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 1: engage the enemy. That's crazy. And yet he was never

1044
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 1: tested to see if in fact he was crazy. And

1045
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:45,920
Speaker 1: in the again, in the civilian courts, if someone walked

1046
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 1: into a high school or a grade school or Sandy

1047
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 1: Hook or what have you and starts gunning down children,

1048
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: that after that individual has taken into custody and read

1049
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: his rights, the next thing that happens is before they

1050
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: go through a try, they actually test for what's called

1051
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 1: his men's raea. Did he have the mental capacity to

1052
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: understand that what he was doing was completely wrong that

1053
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 1: he didn't he was crazy in essence, and yet they

1054
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: never bought the test Bob for that. As a matter

1055
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: of fact, it gets worse because a lot of operators

1056
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: who I know, who are listening to this right now,

1057
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 1: will realize, like myself, we took larium or methyl quinn.

1058
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 1: This is an anti malaria drug. And I know in

1059
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 1: two thousand two when I took this that I started

1060
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 1: having weird hallucinations right after I took this fricking thing,

1061
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 1: and I stopped taking it. And we had three special

1062
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: operators that returned from Afghanistan at the time and they

1063
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 1: killed their wives. And it's been showing that this drug

1064
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 1: has been linked to really horrific nightmares and paranoia and

1065
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: all sorts of psychological problems, and yet the prosecution again

1066
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 1: did not even bring this into the case. Nobody even

1067
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 1: discussed the fact that Bob had taken larry um or

1068
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 1: methyl quinn, which could have altered his psyche In essence,

1069
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: he could have been crazy, and instead they pressured him

1070
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: to make a confession, and so he made this confession

1071
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: and the next thing they did, this is where it

1072
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 1: gets worse. They then went to the sentencing portion Now

1073
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 1: because he made a confession, they took the death sentence

1074
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 1: off the table, and they said, all right, well, we're

1075
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 1: gonna bring in what's called impact witnesses. So they decided

1076
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 1: to fly in what they said, we're Afghan farmers into

1077
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: the country and then put them on Delta airlines with

1078
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 1: other US citizens, flew them over to testify against Bob.

1079
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 1: And they all told these horrific stories and how it

1080
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,439
Speaker 1: was horrible that family members were killed and all the rest,

1081
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 1: and and then the prosecution took them to see world

1082
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 1: and took him out the dinner and took care of them,

1083
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 1: and then flew them back to Afghanistan. And we know

1084
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,440
Speaker 1: this for a fact because we have all the receipts

1085
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 1: and all the rest. But what was interesting is they

1086
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: brought them in under false names, with false passports. Now

1087
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 1: would they have done that, Well, when again you a

1088
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 1: p supported the attorneys and the investigators going doing the homework,

1089
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 1: they found out, wait a second, these guys might be

1090
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 1: farmers during the day, but at night, these guys are

1091
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,920
Speaker 1: died in the wold Taliban. So while we're at war

1092
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, our country, our government flew in enemy combatants,

1093
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:27,920
Speaker 1: not just some random civilian enemy combatants to come in

1094
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 1: and testify against a U. S. Serviceman. But that's the

1095
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 1: type of thing where that can't be tolerated. And so

1096
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 1: as horrific as Bob's crimes, maybe you can't allow this

1097
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 1: precedent to stand where our US government thinks it's okay

1098
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 1: to collaborate with the enemy to try and put someone

1099
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 1: away for life. And that's exactly what happened. Bob's been

1100
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: put away from life. So these are the type of

1101
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: things where, again, you know, people want to argue all

1102
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,959
Speaker 1: the time, well, what Bob it was horrible? Okay, great,

1103
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 1: Bob will even tell you what he did was horrible,

1104
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: and he'll tell you that, you know what, I hold

1105
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 1: me accountable for what I did wrong. But at the

1106
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 1: same time, you can't take away an individual's rights. That's

1107
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 1: where the system has to be addressed, and we have

1108
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 1: to make sure we're fighting because quite frankly, maybe Bob's

1109
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,439
Speaker 1: case is not peculiar to everyone else here, but any

1110
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 1: of our other warriors that are out there, when they

1111
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 1: pull the trigger, they've got to realize that, depending upon

1112
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 1: how that gets assessed, the next thing, you know, they

1113
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 1: could end up in a court martial and and we

1114
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 1: know we've seen this time and again that the enemy

1115
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 1: makes false claims against us all the time, the enemy

1116
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 1: puts civilians in harm's way, so that we get the

1117
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 1: media turning against the warriors all the time. They they

1118
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 1: understand and they're ruthless, and how they do it, how

1119
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 1: they play the propaganda gate and we, because we're a

1120
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 1: passionate country, we tend to fall for this, or at

1121
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 1: least we question our own troops first. And the first

1122
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 1: thing we should be doing is hold on a second,

1123
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 1: let's question the source. Let's find out what's going on here,

1124
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 1: and then let's make sure what we're giving our warriors

1125
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 1: the rights that they deserve, the rights that they fight for.

1126
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 1: And and again, if we find that these warriors are guilty,

1127
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 1: hold them accountable. That's what we do, but not with

1128
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: at not at the expense of destroying their rights. And

1129
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:37,800
Speaker 1: I think that sums it up perfectly for what U

1130
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 1: a P. Does, what what you guys are, and who

1131
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 1: you're supporting. And we want to thank you for for

1132
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 1: doing what you do. And I know you said you

1133
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 1: planned on six months to a year. It doesn't sound

1134
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 1: like you're leaving anytime soon, does it No, I'm coming

1135
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 1: up on three you and we're gonna stick it through.

1136
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:00,160
Speaker 1: We're gonna keep fighting and what one of the other

1137
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: areas since fortunately, you know, we're drawing down a lot

1138
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 1: of conflicts and so we don't receive a lot more

1139
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 1: war crimes coming in, which was really our niche we've

1140
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 1: actually we started focusing on UH unrecognized valor and one

1141
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:17,560
Speaker 1: of the big cases we're looking at is actually a

1142
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:23,559
Speaker 1: hero in the special operations community UH, Major Jim Caper's

1143
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 1: and Major Jim Caper's was one of the early fish

1144
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:32,680
Speaker 1: reconnaissance marines in Vietnam who really set the standard for

1145
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 1: a lot of the tactics, techniques, and procedures that our

1146
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:38,800
Speaker 1: fullsh reconnaissance marines and our raiders are using to this day.

1147
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 1: Absolute hero, unbelievable, like every every one of his his patrols,

1148
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 1: we're just like incredibly heroic in his leadership. He did

1149
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 1: SCOOPA missions in Vietnam, he did long range reconstance patrols,

1150
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 1: he did recovery patrols. He did a lot of black

1151
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:59,560
Speaker 1: ops that still have not been uncovered, and yet the

1152
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:03,600
Speaker 1: ones that have been uncovered really our representative of a

1153
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:07,160
Speaker 1: warrior who's deserving of the Medal of Honor and yet

1154
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:10,600
Speaker 1: at the same time, this warrior did not get the

1155
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 1: Medal of Honor and we're coming in to figure out

1156
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 1: what exactly happened. There's uh some administrative questions. There's been

1157
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 1: some some closed meetings that we're discussing this where we're

1158
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 1: gonna go forward. We're gonna do foyas to find out

1159
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:29,040
Speaker 1: exactly what was discussed and why this warrior didn't get

1160
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 1: the Medal of Honor. There have been claims of racism.

1161
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:36,200
Speaker 1: This is one of the first African American forcer Constance

1162
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 1: Marines who actually got a battlefield commission and kept his

1163
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 1: battlefield commission while he was in Vietnam and kept it

1164
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: when he came home. Uh. He actually Major Jim Capers

1165
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:51,160
Speaker 1: was a poster child literally for the Marine Corps. One

1166
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:55,560
Speaker 1: of the most successful at Marine Corps advertising campaigns was

1167
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 1: asked him Rene and it had his photograph in dress

1168
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 1: Blues was which was a highly successful campaign for the

1169
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:07,719
Speaker 1: Marine Corps. So this is an absolute heroic warrior across

1170
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 1: the board who we're trying to figure out what went

1171
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 1: wrong and why this warrior didn't get the Medal of

1172
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 1: Honor and you know, we don't want to sit here

1173
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 1: and say, well, you know, it was race based. You know,

1174
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 1: we don't know that to be true. We know there's

1175
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 1: a lot of indicators that individuals didn't like him, and

1176
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:29,160
Speaker 1: it seems like it was based upon race. But the

1177
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 1: facts remain that Major Jim Caper's he paid for this

1178
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 1: award with blood, sweat and tears, regardless of anything else.

1179
01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:42,760
Speaker 1: And the fact that the Marine Corps never had one

1180
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:46,840
Speaker 1: African American Marine Corps officer who has ever received the

1181
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 1: Medal of Honor, that's a little bit surprising. But again,

1182
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 1: we would like to give the benefit of doubts to

1183
01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps that it's merit based. And so we're

1184
01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 1: gonna look at this and we're gonna make sure that

1185
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:00,960
Speaker 1: you know, all the teas across the eyes are dotted,

1186
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 1: and you know, here's a warrior who was just recognized

1187
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 1: by the Special Operations Command. He was put into the

1188
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 1: Hall of Honor down there in Tampa, and he was

1189
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 1: one of two Marines that were inducted. And so he's

1190
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:17,640
Speaker 1: gone through a lot of scrutiny and a lot of

1191
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,720
Speaker 1: background checks. So it's not just some random individual, but

1192
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 1: this is someone who has been recognized and has been

1193
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:27,400
Speaker 1: his background has been looked at thoroughly, and uh, we're

1194
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:30,560
Speaker 1: honored to actually be working with Major Jim Caper's and

1195
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 1: others to figure out exactly why he hasn't received this

1196
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:36,639
Speaker 1: medal of honor. And we're gonna press to make sure

1197
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 1: that again the truth comes out like gets shined on it.

1198
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:43,640
Speaker 1: And if the man's deserving the medal of Honor, then

1199
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 1: by God, we're gonna make sure that he gets that

1200
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 1: awarded to him. I've spoken to Jim Caper's on the

1201
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:52,840
Speaker 1: phone for quite a couple uh, probably a couple of

1202
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 1: hours one afternoon. He's a tremendous individual and he's getting

1203
01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 1: up there in the age a little bit now. But

1204
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 1: but you know, when you read his stories and you

1205
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:06,840
Speaker 1: read the combat missions he was on, it reads like

1206
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: a pulp fiction book because you you think to yourself,

1207
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:14,599
Speaker 1: how could anyone survive all this stuff? And he did.

1208
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 1: He's an amazing man. And uh, we we salute your

1209
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 1: efforts on that as well, because I think you know,

1210
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:26,840
Speaker 1: when you talk about people that are deserving, uh, he

1211
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 1: should be at the top of the list. Absolutely. He

1212
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:33,479
Speaker 1: he's a role model. Uh, he's a mentor he's still

1213
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:37,719
Speaker 1: involved with Marsk and the Raiders. He still provides advice

1214
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 1: and guidance. And like you said, he's good enough there

1215
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:42,240
Speaker 1: in years and he's, you know, in his mid eighties,

1216
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 1: and you know, he jokes me, He's like, I only

1217
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,439
Speaker 1: got a few more years left. I'm like, you know, Jim,

1218
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:49,880
Speaker 1: the only way you're leaving this plant is when you're

1219
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 1: ready to go, because ain't nobody gonna be able to

1220
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:55,479
Speaker 1: take your life. So he cracks out. He still got

1221
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:58,479
Speaker 1: a sense of humor um. And what's great about him

1222
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:02,040
Speaker 1: he doesn't play the race card. He doesn't say, well,

1223
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 1: you know there was race that. He doesn't do that.

1224
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: He's he just wants to make sure that if he's deserving,

1225
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:10,920
Speaker 1: that he gets awarded. But not even so much for him.

1226
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:15,559
Speaker 1: It's more for recognition, recognition of those who served with him.

1227
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:18,919
Speaker 1: And there are others that also did not receive awards

1228
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 1: that were deserving, and we're trying to make sure that

1229
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 1: all of those warriors that served with him in Vietnam

1230
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 1: that they are awarded the appropriate awards. And this is

1231
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 1: not something that just gets brushed under the carpet, because again,

1232
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:35,040
Speaker 1: this is our legacy, this is what our warriors. We

1233
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 1: need heroes who are actually warriors and not have medals

1234
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 1: of honor given out just for people who you know,

1235
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 1: we're in defensive actions that you know we're doing some

1236
01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 1: sort of humanitarian action, or you know, they received the

1237
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 1: war posthumously. Like our warriors locate close with and destroy

1238
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 1: the enemy with extreme prejudice. And we need the young

1239
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:02,560
Speaker 1: warriors that are coming up behind them to realize like

1240
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,840
Speaker 1: that is appropriate and that is what gets recognized for

1241
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:09,240
Speaker 1: Balor and Jim Capers, by God, he took the fight

1242
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 1: to the enemy. He you know, he told me. He

1243
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 1: tells me stories, you know, one of which where he

1244
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:17,759
Speaker 1: saw some a local village that had actually been terrorized

1245
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 1: by the Vietcong and the village elder. They cut him

1246
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:25,880
Speaker 1: open and hung him up, and so his innerns were

1247
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:29,120
Speaker 1: hanging out for the pigs to eat while he was alive.

1248
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 1: I mean, just a horrific, horrific way for somebody to die.

1249
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:37,120
Speaker 1: And they did intentionally to terrorize anybody else who would

1250
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:40,200
Speaker 1: interact with the U. S. Military. And Caper has had

1251
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:43,080
Speaker 1: a relationship with this village and the village elder, and

1252
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:46,680
Speaker 1: I'll tell you the story of how Jill Jim excuse me,

1253
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: how Jim went after these guys with a vengeance and

1254
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:54,880
Speaker 1: he tracked them down, and like his tracking skills were phenomenal,

1255
01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 1: and he was talking about the details, and he went

1256
01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:00,400
Speaker 1: after them and he took them out with extreme pre judice.

1257
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 1: And those are the type of actions that that's not

1258
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 1: even the ones that he that he's being looked at

1259
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 1: for the metal of honor, But those are the type

1260
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 1: of things where his warriors, they fought the right fight.

1261
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:14,080
Speaker 1: And we hear too many stories that get blown out

1262
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 1: of proportion by the by the media about you know,

1263
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:20,639
Speaker 1: the baby killers over in Vietnam, and everybody was smoking

1264
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:23,320
Speaker 1: pot and committing crimes, and you know, that makes for

1265
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:26,839
Speaker 1: a good movie, But that wasn't the majority of our warriors.

1266
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:30,560
Speaker 1: And that's why when you find a true warrior like this,

1267
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 1: who's representative of all that is good and right about

1268
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 1: the warrior ethos about how they conducted operations in Vietnam,

1269
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:42,640
Speaker 1: that story must be told, and it has to be

1270
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 1: told loudly and broadly so that America realizes that those

1271
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 1: warriors that served in Vietnam for the most part, were

1272
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 1: honorable warriors and they cannot be blackened by this disgrace

1273
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:58,639
Speaker 1: of of marring them with the few incidents that really

1274
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 1: were horrible, but we're not indicative of how most of

1275
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 1: the warriors acted over Vietnam. So we're fighting for Jim

1276
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 1: Capers to make sure that he receives the recognition he

1277
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 1: deserves and that the story gets told across the nation

1278
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 1: and he gets heralded as the hero that others need

1279
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:23,679
Speaker 1: to emulate. Well, I think that's again, you know, after

1280
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:26,680
Speaker 1: speaking with Major Capers and and talking to him on

1281
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:29,960
Speaker 1: the phone, he's such a uh, he's such a low

1282
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:35,519
Speaker 1: key you know, he's not He's very humble and he's

1283
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:38,519
Speaker 1: just a great man. And we wish you all the

1284
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:42,519
Speaker 1: luck with that because I think again he's very very deserving.

1285
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:45,120
Speaker 1: And sir, thank you for all you do for all

1286
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:47,120
Speaker 1: our veterans that are out there that need your help.

1287
01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:50,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you've explained to our listeners how

1288
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 1: they can go about volunteering or donating, and if they

1289
01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:58,120
Speaker 1: know anyone, they can contact your organization and and put

1290
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:00,760
Speaker 1: them in touch with the people that can help. And

1291
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:04,240
Speaker 1: I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the fact that,

1292
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 1: on a personal note, I noticed that you prevented Jack

1293
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 1: Nicholson from beating Up Tom Cruise and a few good men.

1294
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:16,400
Speaker 1: So we couldn't let you go without mentioning that it's

1295
01:17:16,439 --> 01:17:19,080
Speaker 1: probably some of our listeners that probably wish you had

1296
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 1: so we won't get into that too much. But um, yeah,

1297
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:27,000
Speaker 1: you were in that film and uh that I guess

1298
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 1: we'll we'll leave that as it is today, but that's

1299
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:37,639
Speaker 1: that's probably fought for another podcast maybe in the future. Yeah, Steve.

1300
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:40,360
Speaker 1: All I could say about that is you can't handle

1301
01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:44,679
Speaker 1: the truth. There you go. It's like because you need

1302
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:49,120
Speaker 1: me on that wall exactly, And that's the only thing

1303
01:17:49,160 --> 01:17:53,080
Speaker 1: anybody really cares about my military career. Nothing else matters,

1304
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 1: like oh the movie all right, yeah yeah, and again

1305
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:01,280
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that on another podcasts some other time.

1306
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:03,559
Speaker 1: But we really want to thank you for being here

1307
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 1: today and telling us all about you know, U A P.

1308
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 1: And what you guys are and who you are and

1309
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:13,200
Speaker 1: who you're helping and all of us here at soft

1310
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 1: up appreciate that. But before we go, I need to

1311
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 1: read one little quick blurb to our listeners out there.

1312
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 1: If you want to get soft rep on your phone,

1313
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:26,560
Speaker 1: download our free mobile app and get easy access to articles, podcasts,

1314
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 1: and great reviews, all perfectly formatted to your device. Please

1315
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:34,599
Speaker 1: subscribe to softwarep dot com to get access to all

1316
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 1: our library of e books and our exclusive team room.

1317
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:42,320
Speaker 1: Forms and content available on on all Apple and Android devices.

1318
01:18:58,479 --> 01:19:01,200
Speaker 1: Listening to self rep living you