Speaker 1: I was thinking this week about American Gothic. You know
Speaker 1: American Gothic, right, It's that Grantwood painting of farming couple
Speaker 1: standing side by side, and it's what everyone thinks of
Speaker 1: when we picture American farmers. It's a banding that gave
Speaker 1: hope to people during the Great Depression, and because the
Speaker 1: farmers are stern and virtuous and very Midwestern, it's been
Speaker 1: held up as this romanticized vision of what growing is.
Speaker 1: But it's funny what you see when you look a
Speaker 1: little closer. Grant Wood wasn't much of a farmer. He
Speaker 1: used to walk around town in overalls, but according to
Speaker 1: his biography, he was grossed out by utters and fresh eggs.
Speaker 1: The man of that painting, he isn't a farmer either.
Speaker 1: It was Woods dentist who dressed up to play the part.
Speaker 1: And while America loved the artwork is something that embodied
Speaker 1: quote real farming, Iowan's pointed out that Grantwood couldn't even
Speaker 1: get the pitchfork right. It only had three times instead
Speaker 1: of four. I guess the reason I'm telling you all
Speaker 1: this is because we all have this image of what
Speaker 1: an American farmer is. But I'm not sure, that's right.
Speaker 1: As I've talked with more and more people, I'm amazed
Speaker 1: by how many different cultures have contributed to the growing
Speaker 1: practices that we kind of just accept as American today.
Speaker 1: Hey there, I'm Mongay Articular, a co host of Part
Speaker 1: Time Genius, one of the co founders of Mental Flaws,
Speaker 1: and this is Humans Growing Stuff, a collaboration from I
Speaker 1: Heart Media and your friends at Miracle Grow. My goal
Speaker 1: is to make this the most human show about plants
Speaker 1: you'll ever listen to, and along the way, we'll share sweet,
Speaker 1: inspiring stories, tips and tricks to nurture your plant addiction,
Speaker 1: and just enough science to make you sound like an expert.
Speaker 1: In today's episode, we're going to celebrate the diversity of growing,
Speaker 1: the histories and realizations that have shaped today's culture of gardening,
Speaker 1: and the underrepresentative communities that have deep roots in our soil.
Speaker 1: Because it turns out growing is just as multicultural as
Speaker 1: our country. Chapter five, Giving Thanks and Giving Shine. So
Speaker 1: I am a huge fan of life hacks, and one
Speaker 1: of the things I read is that if you're having
Speaker 1: trouble keeping your plants alive September through October and maybe
Speaker 1: even into November, you can play some rocks nearby. The
Speaker 1: rocks will soak up the sunlight during the day and
Speaker 1: continue to hold that heat overnight. It keeps the soil
Speaker 1: warmer and protects the plants nearby from frost. It is brilliant,
Speaker 1: but it's also old wisdom. According to Yes Magazine, various
Speaker 1: American Indian tribes, including the Iroquois, used the practice as
Speaker 1: a way to keep early frost at bay. But what
Speaker 1: other ancient farming practices have we overlooked? I wanted to
Speaker 1: hear more, so I called up our pal, Naima Pennyman.
Speaker 1: She's the program director at soul Fire Farms. So Far
Speaker 1: prides itself on using Afro Indigenous technical and spiritual farming practices,
Speaker 1: and the farm has used those practices to regenerate eighty
Speaker 1: acres of land. As program director, Naima coordinates farming immersions
Speaker 1: and workshops for the local community. So I wanted to
Speaker 1: ask her about the histories of growing and who we
Speaker 1: should actually be thanking for so many of the techniques
Speaker 1: we use today. Hi, Naima, thanks for joining me. I'm
Speaker 1: so excited to be chatting with you because I want
Speaker 1: to talk about soul Fire Farm and ask a sister
Speaker 1: Gardner and the wisdom of ancestors. But before we do
Speaker 1: any of that, would you want telling me a little
Speaker 1: bit about how you got into farming. I've always been
Speaker 1: deeply inspired by the natural world, but the place I
Speaker 1: always fought the most at home was amongst the plants
Speaker 1: and trees and waterways of western Massachusetts. My sister and
Speaker 1: I from a young age would forage edible things from
Speaker 1: the forest that we could eat and grow some food
Speaker 1: in the garden behind our house, and that to me
Speaker 1: always gave such a sense of connection, power and purpose.
Speaker 1: Who taught you to to forage in these fests? You know,
Speaker 1: we have some naturalist books and things we would refer to,
Speaker 1: but some of it was our own instuition and exploration.
Speaker 1: Like I remember finding this sapling that when we peeled
Speaker 1: it's barked back, you know, smelled of cinnamon, and you know,
Speaker 1: we would know how to identify that tree, and we
Speaker 1: were the harvest would sorrel. And I don't remember how
Speaker 1: we learned that was edible, but hopefully we verified it
Speaker 1: before we tried it, but we a I love that
Speaker 1: it's on so like fun and adventurous and romantic. So
Speaker 1: tell me a little about so Far and how how
Speaker 1: it came to be. So so Far is of Afro
Speaker 1: Indigenous community farm and where training farm dedicated to uprooting
Speaker 1: racism in the food system and also steating sovereignty in
Speaker 1: our communities, creating more opportunities for engagement on every level
Speaker 1: of the food system, from growing food to consuming food.
Speaker 1: In our lineages, there's so much trauma of land based oppression,
Speaker 1: having land stolen from us or um being stolen from
Speaker 1: land and our ancestry, and that our food system is
Speaker 1: really built on this legacy of stolen land and stolen
Speaker 1: labor that hasn't been repaired. Those who grow our food
Speaker 1: continue to be extremely devalued. We're trying to change that story.
Speaker 1: So a big part of our work is also about
Speaker 1: training in African and Indigenous heritage ways of growing food,
Speaker 1: inspiring the next generation of farmers and food sovereignty activists,
Speaker 1: and also helping to build a movement on regional and
Speaker 1: national levels. You know, I'd watched a few of these
Speaker 1: videos and my producer Molly pointed out this reference of
Speaker 1: braiding seeds into one's hair. Yes, it's such a powerful story.
Speaker 1: So homage and deep reverence to our grandma's grandma's grandma
Speaker 1: Enthusie Boyd, who was one of many people in the
Speaker 1: Dahomy region of West Africa during the horrific Transatlantic slave trade,
Speaker 1: who had the courage in the face of this perilous
Speaker 1: and uncertain journey of the Middle Passage to think of
Speaker 1: what would be social security for the uncertain future. And
Speaker 1: she and others braided seeds into each other's hair before
Speaker 1: boarding those ships to the America's where they face bondage
Speaker 1: in the face of not knowing what would happen, trusting
Speaker 1: that they would be land on the other side and
Speaker 1: that this would be social security for the descendants. You know,
Speaker 1: so many of the seeds that are indigenous to the
Speaker 1: continent of Africa, black rice, coffee, cola, nut, okra, black
Speaker 1: app peace, sesame, eggplant, many melons, and more were seeds
Speaker 1: that came with our ancestors on those ships. And not
Speaker 1: only did they pass on that seed, but also the
Speaker 1: knowledge of the indigenous ways of knowing land and how
Speaker 1: to grow food and right relationship with the land. You
Speaker 1: know that that's such a such a powerful and incredible
Speaker 1: story and facing what these people were facing to to
Speaker 1: have that sort of foresight is is just remarkable. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm curious in what you're saying. Is there a growing
Speaker 1: practice that you know, some people who are listening might
Speaker 1: be surprised. Originated in these Afro indigenous cultures, and in
Speaker 1: this history, the Obambo people of northern Namibia and southern
Speaker 1: Angola have incredible soil fertility practices by mounding and creating
Speaker 1: raised beds. Shout out to Cleopatra, who, during her reign
Speaker 1: in ancient Egypt really understood the power of the earth
Speaker 1: worms create the most rich fertile soil and had cadres
Speaker 1: of priests who are dedicated to studying the habits of
Speaker 1: the earthworms. She literally had a rule that you could
Speaker 1: be put to death for harming an earthworm because she
Speaker 1: understood not I did not expect Cleopatra to get a
Speaker 1: shout out on the show. Um and so many more
Speaker 1: also rememberers who have many who are remembering these ancestral
Speaker 1: ways and helping to proliferate these teachings in the new world.
Speaker 1: Right so here at soul Fire, the land we are
Speaker 1: on was originally steward by the Stockbridge Munci Mohican bands,
Speaker 1: and they were forcibly displaced to a reservation in Wisconsin
Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds. We have been forming an intentional
Speaker 1: relationship over the last decade. I've been so inspired by
Speaker 1: our relationship with a Mohican seedkeeper named Warren, who passed
Speaker 1: on to us the sacred black and White munthsly maze
Speaker 1: this beautiful corn that we are growing now at soul
Speaker 1: Fire to honor that these seeds have come home to
Speaker 1: their land. We're planting them in the Mohican style as
Speaker 1: he requested, in two foot mounds, with twelve seeds each
Speaker 1: beginning at the bottom of the mountain in spiraling up
Speaker 1: towards the center and planting them along with winter squash
Speaker 1: to provide a carpet over the soil and beans that
Speaker 1: grow up the corn to complete the three sisters, the
Speaker 1: symbiotic relationship. We are honored to be growing this seed
Speaker 1: native to the land that we're on, and every seed
Speaker 1: that we plant, you know, is really a kernel of
Speaker 1: commitment to and the erasure and displacement of our indigenous
Speaker 1: relatives who continue to struggle for recognition and basic rights
Speaker 1: and dignity. Um, are you discovering new techniques and and
Speaker 1: getting excited for new things along the way to absolutely
Speaker 1: It's an endless gift, you know, to be in partnership
Speaker 1: with the land, and the land herself is such a teacher.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm learning every day. So yeah, like
Speaker 1: learning new varieties to plant, and we call it companion plants,
Speaker 1: like crops that are friends with each other and help
Speaker 1: you know, one helps ward off the pest of the other,
Speaker 1: So growing chives around the collared bed to help ward
Speaker 1: off the moth that like steak the collards and learning
Speaker 1: more about like the friendships between plants and helping us
Speaker 1: support that thriving. So I I definitely know from history
Speaker 1: books and stuff all about George Washington Carver, but I've
Speaker 1: never really heard the name Booker T. Watley before, and
Speaker 1: I was wondering if you could tell us a little
Speaker 1: bit about his contributions to agriculture. So book of s.
Speaker 1: Whatley was also a professor at Tuskegee University. And in
Speaker 1: a time where black farmers were having a really hard
Speaker 1: time making a living, harshly due to you d a
Speaker 1: discrimination like discriminatory lending, BOOKNT Watley had this wild idea.
Speaker 1: People would laugh at him, like, Okay, I feel like
Speaker 1: city folks are yearning for the country we could create
Speaker 1: an opportunity for them to actually pay us to come
Speaker 1: at harvest. This was the idea of pick your own,
Speaker 1: if people will come to the farm and pick their
Speaker 1: own pumpkins and apples and cabbage. And again people thought
Speaker 1: this was a city idea, but it caught on. This
Speaker 1: was one of many of BOOKA. T. Watley's ideas of
Speaker 1: direct farm to consumer, the idea of having a newsletter
Speaker 1: to let your customers know about what's going on in
Speaker 1: the farm, you know, name your animals, and create a
Speaker 1: relationship so that people are inspired. Also this idea of
Speaker 1: the community supported agriculture program, which he called the clientele
Speaker 1: membership club, where people at the beginning of the season
Speaker 1: would pay for a share of the harvest so that
Speaker 1: you would be able to have your upfront costs to
Speaker 1: plant your sea ease and have your equipment and schools ready.
Speaker 1: Knowing that you had that customer base. Um so that
Speaker 1: some of fat Watley's gene yes, that continues to be
Speaker 1: what supports many small diversified farms like ours to be
Speaker 1: able to survive. Is there one thing that you'd love
Speaker 1: for our listeners to walk away from this interview knowing
Speaker 1: or hearing so all of us who are listening. We
Speaker 1: all eat food every day, right, I feel we all
Speaker 1: have a responsibility to help to heal the broken food
Speaker 1: system that we've inherited. I want to encourage us to
Speaker 1: get engaged. There's so many levels around upholding everyone's right
Speaker 1: to land on, honoring the people who grow our food,
Speaker 1: working to eliminate food apartheid, and support farmers of color.
Speaker 1: But I want to urge us all to find our
Speaker 1: role and take up responsibility in this movement. This is
Speaker 1: really really lovely. Thank you, Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: making the time for this. Thank you so much to
Speaker 1: spend such up pleasure. It's talking to you. Naima talked
Speaker 1: about ancestors braiding seeds into their hair and bringing crops
Speaker 1: over to America. So here are four plants you might
Speaker 1: not have realized came from Africa. Watermelon, the predecessor to
Speaker 1: the watermelon, the bitter melon, was grown widely in Egypt
Speaker 1: and was valued for being an easy way to hydrate
Speaker 1: yourself in dry climates. According to National Geographic melons were
Speaker 1: actually placed in pyramids to quote provide hydration to Pharaohs
Speaker 1: for their journeys to the afterlife. Black eyed peas also
Speaker 1: known as cow peas. These plants weren't just an easy
Speaker 1: way to get protein. The nutrient rich crop can actually
Speaker 1: suppress weeds and help other plants around it grow. Okra
Speaker 1: Today it's a Southern staple, but okra made its way
Speaker 1: over through West Africa. The plant is actually closely related
Speaker 1: to cotton, and one of the reasons American farmers took
Speaker 1: such a shine to it is because they knew how
Speaker 1: to grow cotton coffee. If you consider coffee's impact on
Speaker 1: the world, from the Beethovens of the world who guzzled
Speaker 1: it for inspiration, to college students who use it to
Speaker 1: pull all nighters, to the truckers who use that extra
Speaker 1: cup to go that extra mile, you realize the world
Speaker 1: owes a great debt to Africa, and specifically Ethiopia, where
Speaker 1: legend says that a goat herder named Caldy watched his
Speaker 1: goats eat some coffee berries and suddenly get all emped up,
Speaker 1: so we decided to turn into a beverage. Of course,
Speaker 1: that just scratches the surface, but it's fun to look
Speaker 1: inside your fridge and realize how interconnected this world really is.
Speaker 1: Humans growing stuff will be right back After a short
Speaker 1: break after I chat with Naima, I decided to run
Speaker 1: a little image search. I typed in America and Farmers,
Speaker 1: and then America and Gardeners, and then a bunch of
Speaker 1: other variations. It's strange how far I had to scroll
Speaker 1: before I found images of people of color. We live
Speaker 1: in this great, big country filled with so many different
Speaker 1: types of Americans, and yet there's this persistent reminder of
Speaker 1: who belongs when the truth is, gardening can and should
Speaker 1: be for everybody. So I wanted to talk to Jasmine Jefferson,
Speaker 1: who found the online resource black Girls with Gardens, and
Speaker 1: Stephanie Horton, the plant fluencer behind the Instagram account Botanical
Speaker 1: black Girl, to talk about their impact on the gardening
Speaker 1: community and to get us all into a conversation about
Speaker 1: the culture of gardening. Hey, Stephanie, Hey, Jasmine, you there, Hey, hey, Hi.
Speaker 1: It's so nice to hear your voices. So the first
Speaker 1: I'm curious about, how did you fall in love with
Speaker 1: gardening and growing? Well, I guess I go first. I've
Speaker 1: always been around growing. My grandparents have been growers, but
Speaker 1: I just was not interested in it at the time.
Speaker 1: As a child. I can remember vividly. They used to
Speaker 1: travel with like a shovel and bag in their trunk,
Speaker 1: so we pulled over we see something and it did.
Speaker 1: They'll just pull it up if they wanted it. So
Speaker 1: that I've always been around it. It's been, it's been
Speaker 1: a thing. It just wasn't until I got Older's when
Speaker 1: I started appreciate growing and I became slightly obsessed with it.
Speaker 1: Was that was that embarrassing to you as a kid,
Speaker 1: Like it was just kind of normal. I think one
Speaker 1: time a friend of mine said something. They were like,
Speaker 1: are they really gonna pull over? I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: other people who was to me? And Stephanie, can you
Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about your plant story? Sure?
Speaker 1: And for me it was very recently, Um when I
Speaker 1: started falling in love with it. My dad he would always,
Speaker 1: you know, at least make an effort to plant tomatoes
Speaker 1: and cucumbers as far as edible gardening. You know, that
Speaker 1: curiosity within me came from my dad's side. His side
Speaker 1: being from Mississippi. We would always travel down um to
Speaker 1: the country and I would see them, you know, with
Speaker 1: their fruit trees and their own farms and stuff, and
Speaker 1: it was just commonplace. And I love that, and I
Speaker 1: think that's kind of what started the idea that that
Speaker 1: is something that I can tangibly do as an adult.
Speaker 1: And then I started learning more about it and actually
Speaker 1: going into it and trying to figure out how can
Speaker 1: I do that on a smaller scale, you know. But
Speaker 1: I've been looking at Jasmine Ford, I would say the
Speaker 1: last two and a half years, like she's the resources.
Speaker 1: I love her. So let's talk about Black Girls with
Speaker 1: gardens because I'd love to hear a little bit more
Speaker 1: about how that started. Jasmine. What was it that really
Speaker 1: inspired you to start this website? Was okay, so social
Speaker 1: media is a thing. Let me see who I can
Speaker 1: connect with in reference to you know, growing. My background
Speaker 1: is in psychology, clinical psychology, so I love to research.
Speaker 1: I want to know more about things and understand it.
Speaker 1: So that was the whole purpose of trying to find
Speaker 1: something like that. And there were tons of people out
Speaker 1: there growing, especially people of color, but I didn't see
Speaker 1: anything where I can just have a holes like a
Speaker 1: resource of or a collective by where people like myself
Speaker 1: we can get together and we can talk about plants culturally.
Speaker 1: So I decided in July of seventeen that Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna start this thing and we'll just hang out and
Speaker 1: talk about plants. And that's how Blackbirds with Gardens got started.
Speaker 1: It has been just an amazing ride seeing how this
Speaker 1: flourished in the past three years. How about you, Stephanie,
Speaker 1: how did you end up starting this plant fluencer account?
Speaker 1: And I'm still really weird about that? Do you want
Speaker 1: to know what's what's a better term for you? I
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm affecting it now, but it's just so
Speaker 1: odd to hear sometimes. But that's not something I ever
Speaker 1: sought out to do, but yeah, to really to kind
Speaker 1: of like mirror some of Jasmine's experience. You know, I
Speaker 1: started Botanical Black Girl simply because my friends were like
Speaker 1: joning on me all the whole time, like, girl, about
Speaker 1: your plants? Nobody cares what are you doing? So I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, here, you know, I've created some hashtags
Speaker 1: to hopefully assist in that, because it would have been
Speaker 1: something that I would have appreciated this time last year.
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, well, well what do you talk about that? Like,
Speaker 1: what are some of the hashtags you've created? And and uh,
Speaker 1: what have you seen in terms of response? Oh, it's lovely? Um,
Speaker 1: so I made a couple of hashtags versus botanical black
Speaker 1: girl because it's me, but um, I figured that there
Speaker 1: are other botanical black girls out there who would like
Speaker 1: to showcase themselves and find communities. So that's one, and the
Speaker 1: the other is black hands green thumb. Now that one
Speaker 1: I actually took some time with because there was a
Speaker 1: moment where everybody was either using their hands for comparison,
Speaker 1: to size for leaves, or just look at my manicure
Speaker 1: with my green rings, and I couldn't find any black folks.
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay. And then when I did it, it
Speaker 1: really did just kind of shake something and me. It
Speaker 1: stirred something up, and I had no idea what that was.
Speaker 1: And it sounds frivolous how affected I could feel when
Speaker 1: I saw a black hand doing the things that I
Speaker 1: like to do. You know, that really did resonate with
Speaker 1: me in a very real way, and I had no
Speaker 1: idea what that was, but I was like, hey, we
Speaker 1: need to quickly see this because I'm sure somebody else
Speaker 1: is going to feel the same way, because representation matters,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, doing what I mean it's simple,
Speaker 1: but it's to the point, you know, And that's what
Speaker 1: I hope to do is just kind of you know,
Speaker 1: flying other folks so we can find one another and
Speaker 1: create community. That's the biggest thing. That's it. It's you know,
Speaker 1: in this world right now, there's so much toxicity, you
Speaker 1: forget that there's like joy and kindness and and just
Speaker 1: the joy of knowledge, you know, on the internet and
Speaker 1: to dip into your site and Stephanie's account and these hashtags,
Speaker 1: it's just like this really nice reminder of what the
Speaker 1: world can be exactly. Judgmine, you mentioned that you are
Speaker 1: a therapist, and do you think that caring for plants
Speaker 1: and constantly thinking about plants needs makes people more empathetic?
Speaker 1: I think so it's a practice. It's type of a
Speaker 1: method that requires you to care about something else, something
Speaker 1: else that's living. So if you repeat that in which
Speaker 1: something we do as we care for clean, you can't
Speaker 1: help but apply that to life. But they'll begin to
Speaker 1: apply it to themselves. So they'll begin to apply it
Speaker 1: to their closest family members, brands, and before you know,
Speaker 1: hopefully will have a better world. If everyone get a plan,
Speaker 1: I know, I love I've been thinking about that, like
Speaker 1: if we give more plans to people when we have
Speaker 1: a kinder world. Um, I think I heard you say
Speaker 1: that you've actually turned down opportunities because they didn't feel
Speaker 1: authentic or right for your site, Jasmine. Is that true?
Speaker 1: Very much? So? I pride myself with blacks with gardens
Speaker 1: being very authentic. There have been tons of opportunities for
Speaker 1: blackbirds with gardens to do certain things, but it just
Speaker 1: didn't align with the type of growing that I support,
Speaker 1: and I just turned it down. Obviously, it could have
Speaker 1: been very lucrative and things of that sort, but that's
Speaker 1: not what I value the most in reference to our
Speaker 1: community is what's most sustainable for black people in green spaces.
Speaker 1: I can honestly say I've turned down anywhere close to
Speaker 1: twenty opportunities that's just sit in align with us. So
Speaker 1: do you think gardening gives people of color a sense
Speaker 1: of liberation that maybe they're not feeling in other areas
Speaker 1: of their life. Honestly I do. Um, gardening allows you
Speaker 1: to take control of what you're going to consume. That's
Speaker 1: just straight up what what it does, if we're gonna
Speaker 1: look at it as is it provides us the opportunity
Speaker 1: to grow what we want to grow, provide the nutrients
Speaker 1: that we want to provide and that's what our family
Speaker 1: is going to consume. In other lenses, I definitely think
Speaker 1: it allows us to decide where we're gonna put our
Speaker 1: money economically. Do we want to support a business or
Speaker 1: something to that effect, do we want to support that
Speaker 1: if they do not support us. I would also add
Speaker 1: seeing people that I've known through the years from different
Speaker 1: walks of life, so black folks primarily though, seeing them
Speaker 1: happy about Look what I was able to do on
Speaker 1: my own. Again, it's going back to that ownership. I
Speaker 1: did this myself, and yes, I get to consume this um,
Speaker 1: but also I can grow this. I can teach my
Speaker 1: children to grow UM. I can teach the children in
Speaker 1: my community to grow, and I can help them sustain
Speaker 1: their family. So often, I think for black people particularly,
Speaker 1: we don't just think about our own nuclear family. We
Speaker 1: think about everyone else in the community, you know. We
Speaker 1: we do try to evoke some sort of thought of
Speaker 1: longevity and how this can benefit us long term, right right,
Speaker 1: And that's the whole purpose. What we consider a group
Speaker 1: of people like even within you know, black and brown people,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't consider this type of people hanging with each other,
Speaker 1: this type of people were all connected in reference, so
Speaker 1: we like to grow things, and it's it's so inefficial
Speaker 1: to see, like plants or just having a garden, how
Speaker 1: it affects us all together or how it connects us.
Speaker 1: And um, that's one of the things that just keeps
Speaker 1: me going in reference to you know, black oirs with
Speaker 1: garden because obviously it does get some pushback, and it's
Speaker 1: in reference to just people who's just not you know
Speaker 1: who who tries to not see color. So definitely black
Speaker 1: girds with garden daily. As much as we get good stuff,
Speaker 1: we get bad stuff. It can be very taxing on
Speaker 1: mental health itself. But I honestly feel like you have
Speaker 1: to deal with the fact that racism exists. You know,
Speaker 1: we have been intentionally kept out of certain spaces. Creating
Speaker 1: a thrive in space means that you have to deal
Speaker 1: with that back. It's heartbreaking that anyone would come after
Speaker 1: you for for building something. Yeah, they definitely daily, but
Speaker 1: obviously the good feedback always outweighs the bad. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's clear that you know, you have a real
Speaker 1: connection to readers. Before you found this community and founded
Speaker 1: this community, did you feel like an outsider when you
Speaker 1: went to nurseries or when you walked into garden spaces.
Speaker 1: Most definitely so when I went into actually when I
Speaker 1: started looking out looking at nurseries here, but I really
Speaker 1: didn't get much attention or and I still don't, beyond
Speaker 1: quite honest with you, I still don't. I have to
Speaker 1: actually inquire and you have to show some type of
Speaker 1: knowledge or injured or just show them. You know, Hey,
Speaker 1: I have this instagram and that's when I get That's
Speaker 1: when I get attention, and it's quite frankly, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: But Black Girls of Garden is one of the spaces
Speaker 1: where I feel comfortable. You know, as we're seeing more
Speaker 1: representation in gardening and hopefully how it's affecting perceptions of gardening.
Speaker 1: Do you think that spreads into other parts of culture.
Speaker 1: Do you do you think that that the way we
Speaker 1: view gardening as as more multicultural will impact how we
Speaker 1: we view the world. I think it certainly can. I
Speaker 1: can see like even now in our in in the
Speaker 1: black plant community specifically because I know black people are
Speaker 1: not a mount modelis um and we all come from
Speaker 1: different walks of life. One thing that I love is
Speaker 1: the then diagram if you will of you know, being
Speaker 1: a black person being in the plant community and seeing
Speaker 1: everything in the middle that kind of has these offshoots, right,
Speaker 1: And that's not really a ven diagram, but you get
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I'm seeing like the sneaker sneaker heads
Speaker 1: coming in, you know, like sneaker culture with plant culture
Speaker 1: and black culture, and you know, it's seeing everything overlap.
Speaker 1: Is what I love because I think as we do
Speaker 1: bring everything together and like a melting pot if you will, um,
Speaker 1: we can still identify the differences and appreciate them um.
Speaker 1: And I hope that that would bleed over into the
Speaker 1: mass culture where they can also identify, hey, they're doing
Speaker 1: something different, but it's still within something that we appreciate
Speaker 1: in the larger plant community, you know, just kind of
Speaker 1: seeing appreciate it versus see it and try to assimilate
Speaker 1: or change it or say that this isn't the norm.
Speaker 1: Just see it for what it is and let it
Speaker 1: be amazing. I think that that could help fingers crossed. Uh,
Speaker 1: that's my hopes. Well. Number one, it's the right thing
Speaker 1: to do. If you want to represent guardening, you have
Speaker 1: to appreciate everything that goes with it. And that's the
Speaker 1: roots of it or you have to include everyone. That's
Speaker 1: just the right thing to do. I think the exposure
Speaker 1: to how great this community is and will help people
Speaker 1: just be better people honestly and appreciate our culture and appreciate,
Speaker 1: you know, the contributions we've made in reference to gardening
Speaker 1: and agriculture. Stephanie Jasmine, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 1: It's really been a pleasure chatting with you both. Same here.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me making me
Speaker 1: feel all warm and fuzzy again. In so many ways,
Speaker 1: my life has been easy. My parents raised us in
Speaker 1: a loving and supporting home. I've been blessed with incredible
Speaker 1: friends and teachers and family. But every once in a
Speaker 1: while I get reminded that I don't belong. Sometimes it's
Speaker 1: subtle when you walk into a diner and the first
Speaker 1: question is where are you from, because the implication is
Speaker 1: you're not from here, Or when you walk up to
Speaker 1: a counter and the shopkeeper has served your friends but
Speaker 1: tells you we don't take roopies. When you're in a
Speaker 1: drug store and a mom pulls her kid close to
Speaker 1: her when she sees you as if you're a threat
Speaker 1: because you're wearing Indian clothes. How before a flight you
Speaker 1: get pulled out a line, stopped and padded down. A
Speaker 1: comical number of times, your shoes and bags get taken
Speaker 1: away for inspection by different people, one after another, even
Speaker 1: though you were born in New Jersey and you've never
Speaker 1: even gotten a speeding ticket and you love this country
Speaker 1: so much. Or the day after the last presidential election,
Speaker 1: when you're walking down an empty street in midtown Manhattan,
Speaker 1: middle of the day, and this tall, well dressed guy
Speaker 1: goes out of his way to lower his shoulder and
Speaker 1: plow into you, knocking you off the sidewalk, and you
Speaker 1: try to think, why would anyone do that? And the
Speaker 1: only thing you can think of is maybe it's because
Speaker 1: of the color of my skin, or maybe it was
Speaker 1: because I was talking to my mom, slipping in and
Speaker 1: out of English the way we do, And you wonder,
Speaker 1: what is it about our differences that could possibly have
Speaker 1: offended him. I'm not complaining, and I'm not equating my
Speaker 1: experience with anyone else's, because I haven't really suffered. But
Speaker 1: there's certain things you just notice. And when my guests
Speaker 1: told me how they had walk into a nursery or
Speaker 1: a garden store and get ignored because they don't look
Speaker 1: like quote garden Earth. I know that feeling. When Jasmine
Speaker 1: talked about how she's worked so hard to create this
Speaker 1: positive sight, but every week she gets some racist comments
Speaker 1: from people outside the community, just antagonizing her. It's heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: But I know that too, and maybe that's part of
Speaker 1: why I admire what the work she and Naima and
Speaker 1: Stephanie do so much. The way Naima is working to
Speaker 1: preserve and honor of cultural history, the way Jasmine provides
Speaker 1: knowledge and inspiration to this community and encourages girls who
Speaker 1: are like her, who are curious. The way Stephanie is
Speaker 1: creating hashtags and building community to tell people you belong,
Speaker 1: Because shouldn't we all be able to hear those words
Speaker 1: and believe them. This entire series, I've been thinking about
Speaker 1: gardens as a refuge, how growing is good for your
Speaker 1: mental health, and it is, but I've been thinking a
Speaker 1: lot about gardens as identity, to a way to be
Speaker 1: proud and show off who you are. After starting this podcast,
Speaker 1: my aunt sent me a photo of my grandfather's garden,
Speaker 1: my other grandfather. The photo shows this little waterfall near
Speaker 1: his bedroom window. It's kind of amazing. He redirected a
Speaker 1: nearby stream to pass by his window and it created
Speaker 1: a little waterfall. As a kid, I just thought it
Speaker 1: was neat, but now I actually see it as him
Speaker 1: expressing himself. He was a self taught engineer, someone who
Speaker 1: mailed away for a correspondence course in the US that
Speaker 1: would teach him electrical engineering, and from there he figured
Speaker 1: out how to wire a town and bring electricity to
Speaker 1: all these places and go off. So of course it
Speaker 1: only makes sense that his garden displayed that same ingenuity.
Speaker 1: His garden wasn't just the safe space from the world,
Speaker 1: it was where he could be the most himself. And
Speaker 1: when you think about gardens that way, they're basically these canvasses.
Speaker 1: All the plants and flowers you choose to grow, and
Speaker 1: the way you choose to arrange them. They're just that choices,
Speaker 1: and every garden ends up as unique is the people
Speaker 1: who grow them. I don't read as widely as I should,
Speaker 1: but this week I was chatting with my producer Molly,
Speaker 1: and she pointed me to an Alice Walker essay in
Speaker 1: Search of Our Mother's Gardens. It's about all of these things,
Speaker 1: race and identity, and of course gardens too. In the text,
Speaker 1: Walker lays out how people attempted to rob slaves of
Speaker 1: their creativity, stamp out those instincts, and yet over time
Speaker 1: that creative spirit persisted, passed down from generation to generation,
Speaker 1: almost in secret. The women Walker describes didn't write poems
Speaker 1: or stories. They poured their creativity where they could, letting
Speaker 1: it seep into the spaces all around their lives. For
Speaker 1: Walker's mother, it was her garden, so we asked Stephanie
Speaker 1: if she would read a short passage from it. My
Speaker 1: mother adorned with flowers, whatever shabby house we were forced
Speaker 1: to live in, whatever she planted grew as if by magic,
Speaker 1: and her fame as a grower of flowers spread over
Speaker 1: three counties because of her creativity with her flowers. Even
Speaker 1: my memories of poverty are seen through a screen of blooms, sunflowers, petunias, roses, dahlias,
Speaker 1: for Scythia, delphiniums, verbania, and on and on. And I
Speaker 1: remember people coming to my mother's yard to be given
Speaker 1: cuttings from her flowers. I hear again the praises showered
Speaker 1: on her, because whatever rocky soil she landed on, she
Speaker 1: turned into a garden, a garden so brilliant with colors,
Speaker 1: so original in its design, so magna neificent with life
Speaker 1: and creativity, that to this day people drive by our
Speaker 1: house in Georgia, perfect strangers and imperfect strangers, and asked
Speaker 1: to stand or walk among my mother's art. I noticed
Speaker 1: that it is only when my mother is working in
Speaker 1: her flowers that she is radiant, almost to the point
Speaker 1: of being invisible, except as creator, hand and eye. She
Speaker 1: is involved in work, her soul must have ordering the
Speaker 1: universe and the image of her personal conception of beauty.
Speaker 1: Her face as she prepares the art that is her
Speaker 1: gift is a legacy of respect she leaves to me
Speaker 1: for all that illuminates and cherishes life. She is handed
Speaker 1: down respect for the possibilities and the will to grasp them.
Speaker 1: For her, so hindered and intruded upon in so many ways,
Speaker 1: being an artist has still been a daily part of
Speaker 1: her life. This ability to hold on, even in very
Speaker 1: simple ways, is work black women have done for a
Speaker 1: very long time. That's it for today's episode. Don't forget
Speaker 1: whether you're a beginner like me, a pro trying something new,
Speaker 1: or someone in between. Enjoying your backyard garden. There are
Speaker 1: incredible resources waiting for you on the Miracle Grow website.
Speaker 1: Next time on our show, we'll be focusing on food
Speaker 1: deserts in America and the people and organizations who are
Speaker 1: creating gardening solutions to this widespread issue. If you like
Speaker 1: what you heard, don't forget to rate and review the
Speaker 1: show on Apple Podcast. Also, we want to hear from you.
Speaker 1: What are your inspiring plant stories, relatable struggles or growing
Speaker 1: questions taggers in your post or tweet using the hashtag
Speaker 1: Humans Growing Stuff, and don't be surprised if you hear
Speaker 1: your story featured on an upcoming episode. Humans Growing Stuff
Speaker 1: is a collaboration from I Heart Radio and your friends
Speaker 1: at Miracle Grow. Our show was written and produced by
Speaker 1: Molly Sosha and me Mangy Chatigler in partnership with Ryan Ovadia,
Speaker 1: Daniel Ainsworth, Hayley Ericsson, and Garrett Shannon of Banter Until
Speaker 1: next time, Thanks so much for listening.