1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: I was thinking this week about American Gothic. You know 2 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: American Gothic, right, It's that Grantwood painting of farming couple 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: standing side by side, and it's what everyone thinks of 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: when we picture American farmers. It's a banding that gave 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: hope to people during the Great Depression, and because the 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: farmers are stern and virtuous and very Midwestern, it's been 7 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: held up as this romanticized vision of what growing is. 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: But it's funny what you see when you look a 9 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: little closer. Grant Wood wasn't much of a farmer. He 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: used to walk around town in overalls, but according to 11 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: his biography, he was grossed out by utters and fresh eggs. 12 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: The man of that painting, he isn't a farmer either. 13 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: It was Woods dentist who dressed up to play the part. 14 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: And while America loved the artwork is something that embodied 15 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: quote real farming, Iowan's pointed out that Grantwood couldn't even 16 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: get the pitchfork right. It only had three times instead 17 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: of four. I guess the reason I'm telling you all 18 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: this is because we all have this image of what 19 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: an American farmer is. But I'm not sure, that's right. 20 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: As I've talked with more and more people, I'm amazed 21 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,559 Speaker 1: by how many different cultures have contributed to the growing 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: practices that we kind of just accept as American today. 23 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: Hey there, I'm Mongay Articular, a co host of Part 24 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: Time Genius, one of the co founders of Mental Flaws, 25 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: and this is Humans Growing Stuff, a collaboration from I 26 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: Heart Media and your friends at Miracle Grow. My goal 27 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: is to make this the most human show about plants 28 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: you'll ever listen to, and along the way, we'll share sweet, 29 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: inspiring stories, tips and tricks to nurture your plant addiction, 30 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: and just enough science to make you sound like an expert. 31 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: In today's episode, we're going to celebrate the diversity of growing, 32 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: the histories and realizations that have shaped today's culture of gardening, 33 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: and the underrepresentative communities that have deep roots in our soil. 34 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 1: Because it turns out growing is just as multicultural as 35 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: our country. Chapter five, Giving Thanks and Giving Shine. So 36 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,399 Speaker 1: I am a huge fan of life hacks, and one 37 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: of the things I read is that if you're having 38 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: trouble keeping your plants alive September through October and maybe 39 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: even into November, you can play some rocks nearby. The 40 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: rocks will soak up the sunlight during the day and 41 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: continue to hold that heat overnight. It keeps the soil 42 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: warmer and protects the plants nearby from frost. It is brilliant, 43 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: but it's also old wisdom. According to Yes Magazine, various 44 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: American Indian tribes, including the Iroquois, used the practice as 45 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: a way to keep early frost at bay. But what 46 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: other ancient farming practices have we overlooked? I wanted to 47 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: hear more, so I called up our pal, Naima Pennyman. 48 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: She's the program director at soul Fire Farms. So Far 49 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: prides itself on using Afro Indigenous technical and spiritual farming practices, 50 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: and the farm has used those practices to regenerate eighty 51 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: acres of land. As program director, Naima coordinates farming immersions 52 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: and workshops for the local community. So I wanted to 53 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: ask her about the histories of growing and who we 54 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: should actually be thanking for so many of the techniques 55 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: we use today. Hi, Naima, thanks for joining me. I'm 56 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: so excited to be chatting with you because I want 57 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: to talk about soul Fire Farm and ask a sister 58 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: Gardner and the wisdom of ancestors. But before we do 59 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: any of that, would you want telling me a little 60 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: bit about how you got into farming. I've always been 61 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: deeply inspired by the natural world, but the place I 62 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: always fought the most at home was amongst the plants 63 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: and trees and waterways of western Massachusetts. My sister and 64 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: I from a young age would forage edible things from 65 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: the forest that we could eat and grow some food 66 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: in the garden behind our house, and that to me 67 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: always gave such a sense of connection, power and purpose. 68 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: Who taught you to to forage in these fests? You know, 69 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: we have some naturalist books and things we would refer to, 70 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: but some of it was our own instuition and exploration. 71 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: Like I remember finding this sapling that when we peeled 72 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: it's barked back, you know, smelled of cinnamon, and you know, 73 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: we would know how to identify that tree, and we 74 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: were the harvest would sorrel. And I don't remember how 75 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: we learned that was edible, but hopefully we verified it 76 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: before we tried it, but we a I love that 77 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: it's on so like fun and adventurous and romantic. So 78 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: tell me a little about so Far and how how 79 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: it came to be. So so Far is of Afro 80 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: Indigenous community farm and where training farm dedicated to uprooting 81 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: racism in the food system and also steating sovereignty in 82 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: our communities, creating more opportunities for engagement on every level 83 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: of the food system, from growing food to consuming food. 84 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: In our lineages, there's so much trauma of land based oppression, 85 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: having land stolen from us or um being stolen from 86 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: land and our ancestry, and that our food system is 87 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: really built on this legacy of stolen land and stolen 88 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: labor that hasn't been repaired. Those who grow our food 89 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: continue to be extremely devalued. We're trying to change that story. 90 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: So a big part of our work is also about 91 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: training in African and Indigenous heritage ways of growing food, 92 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: inspiring the next generation of farmers and food sovereignty activists, 93 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: and also helping to build a movement on regional and 94 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: national levels. You know, I'd watched a few of these 95 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: videos and my producer Molly pointed out this reference of 96 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: braiding seeds into one's hair. Yes, it's such a powerful story. 97 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: So homage and deep reverence to our grandma's grandma's grandma 98 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 1: Enthusie Boyd, who was one of many people in the 99 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: Dahomy region of West Africa during the horrific Transatlantic slave trade, 100 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: who had the courage in the face of this perilous 101 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: and uncertain journey of the Middle Passage to think of 102 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: what would be social security for the uncertain future. And 103 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: she and others braided seeds into each other's hair before 104 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: boarding those ships to the America's where they face bondage 105 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: in the face of not knowing what would happen, trusting 106 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: that they would be land on the other side and 107 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: that this would be social security for the descendants. You know, 108 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: so many of the seeds that are indigenous to the 109 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:04,239 Speaker 1: continent of Africa, black rice, coffee, cola, nut, okra, black 110 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: app peace, sesame, eggplant, many melons, and more were seeds 111 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: that came with our ancestors on those ships. And not 112 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: only did they pass on that seed, but also the 113 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: knowledge of the indigenous ways of knowing land and how 114 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: to grow food and right relationship with the land. You 115 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: know that that's such a such a powerful and incredible 116 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: story and facing what these people were facing to to 117 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: have that sort of foresight is is just remarkable. You know, 118 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: I'm curious in what you're saying. Is there a growing 119 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: practice that you know, some people who are listening might 120 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: be surprised. Originated in these Afro indigenous cultures, and in 121 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: this history, the Obambo people of northern Namibia and southern 122 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: Angola have incredible soil fertility practices by mounding and creating 123 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: raised beds. Shout out to Cleopatra, who, during her reign 124 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: in ancient Egypt really understood the power of the earth 125 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: worms create the most rich fertile soil and had cadres 126 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: of priests who are dedicated to studying the habits of 127 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: the earthworms. She literally had a rule that you could 128 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: be put to death for harming an earthworm because she 129 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: understood not I did not expect Cleopatra to get a 130 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: shout out on the show. Um and so many more 131 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: also rememberers who have many who are remembering these ancestral 132 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: ways and helping to proliferate these teachings in the new world. 133 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 1: Right so here at soul Fire, the land we are 134 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: on was originally steward by the Stockbridge Munci Mohican bands, 135 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: and they were forcibly displaced to a reservation in Wisconsin 136 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds. We have been forming an intentional 137 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: relationship over the last decade. I've been so inspired by 138 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: our relationship with a Mohican seedkeeper named Warren, who passed 139 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: on to us the sacred black and White munthsly maze 140 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: this beautiful corn that we are growing now at soul 141 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: Fire to honor that these seeds have come home to 142 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: their land. We're planting them in the Mohican style as 143 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: he requested, in two foot mounds, with twelve seeds each 144 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: beginning at the bottom of the mountain in spiraling up 145 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: towards the center and planting them along with winter squash 146 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: to provide a carpet over the soil and beans that 147 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: grow up the corn to complete the three sisters, the 148 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: symbiotic relationship. We are honored to be growing this seed 149 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: native to the land that we're on, and every seed 150 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: that we plant, you know, is really a kernel of 151 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: commitment to and the erasure and displacement of our indigenous 152 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: relatives who continue to struggle for recognition and basic rights 153 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: and dignity. Um, are you discovering new techniques and and 154 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: getting excited for new things along the way to absolutely 155 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: It's an endless gift, you know, to be in partnership 156 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: with the land, and the land herself is such a teacher. 157 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm learning every day. So yeah, like 158 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: learning new varieties to plant, and we call it companion plants, 159 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: like crops that are friends with each other and help 160 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: you know, one helps ward off the pest of the other, 161 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: So growing chives around the collared bed to help ward 162 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: off the moth that like steak the collards and learning 163 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: more about like the friendships between plants and helping us 164 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: support that thriving. So I I definitely know from history 165 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: books and stuff all about George Washington Carver, but I've 166 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,839 Speaker 1: never really heard the name Booker T. Watley before, and 167 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: I was wondering if you could tell us a little 168 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: bit about his contributions to agriculture. So book of s. 169 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: Whatley was also a professor at Tuskegee University. And in 170 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: a time where black farmers were having a really hard 171 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: time making a living, harshly due to you d a 172 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: discrimination like discriminatory lending, BOOKNT Watley had this wild idea. 173 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: People would laugh at him, like, Okay, I feel like 174 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: city folks are yearning for the country we could create 175 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: an opportunity for them to actually pay us to come 176 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: at harvest. This was the idea of pick your own, 177 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: if people will come to the farm and pick their 178 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: own pumpkins and apples and cabbage. And again people thought 179 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: this was a city idea, but it caught on. This 180 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: was one of many of BOOKA. T. Watley's ideas of 181 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: direct farm to consumer, the idea of having a newsletter 182 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: to let your customers know about what's going on in 183 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: the farm, you know, name your animals, and create a 184 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: relationship so that people are inspired. Also this idea of 185 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: the community supported agriculture program, which he called the clientele 186 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: membership club, where people at the beginning of the season 187 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: would pay for a share of the harvest so that 188 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: you would be able to have your upfront costs to 189 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: plant your sea ease and have your equipment and schools ready. 190 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: Knowing that you had that customer base. Um so that 191 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: some of fat Watley's gene yes, that continues to be 192 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: what supports many small diversified farms like ours to be 193 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: able to survive. Is there one thing that you'd love 194 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: for our listeners to walk away from this interview knowing 195 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: or hearing so all of us who are listening. We 196 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: all eat food every day, right, I feel we all 197 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: have a responsibility to help to heal the broken food 198 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: system that we've inherited. I want to encourage us to 199 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: get engaged. There's so many levels around upholding everyone's right 200 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: to land on, honoring the people who grow our food, 201 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: working to eliminate food apartheid, and support farmers of color. 202 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: But I want to urge us all to find our 203 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: role and take up responsibility in this movement. This is 204 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: really really lovely. Thank you, Thank you so much for 205 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: making the time for this. Thank you so much to 206 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: spend such up pleasure. It's talking to you. Naima talked 207 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: about ancestors braiding seeds into their hair and bringing crops 208 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: over to America. So here are four plants you might 209 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: not have realized came from Africa. Watermelon, the predecessor to 210 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: the watermelon, the bitter melon, was grown widely in Egypt 211 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: and was valued for being an easy way to hydrate 212 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: yourself in dry climates. According to National Geographic melons were 213 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: actually placed in pyramids to quote provide hydration to Pharaohs 214 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: for their journeys to the afterlife. Black eyed peas also 215 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: known as cow peas. These plants weren't just an easy 216 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: way to get protein. The nutrient rich crop can actually 217 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: suppress weeds and help other plants around it grow. Okra 218 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: Today it's a Southern staple, but okra made its way 219 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: over through West Africa. The plant is actually closely related 220 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: to cotton, and one of the reasons American farmers took 221 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: such a shine to it is because they knew how 222 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: to grow cotton coffee. If you consider coffee's impact on 223 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: the world, from the Beethovens of the world who guzzled 224 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: it for inspiration, to college students who use it to 225 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: pull all nighters, to the truckers who use that extra 226 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: cup to go that extra mile, you realize the world 227 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: owes a great debt to Africa, and specifically Ethiopia, where 228 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: legend says that a goat herder named Caldy watched his 229 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: goats eat some coffee berries and suddenly get all emped up, 230 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: so we decided to turn into a beverage. Of course, 231 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: that just scratches the surface, but it's fun to look 232 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: inside your fridge and realize how interconnected this world really is. 233 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: Humans growing stuff will be right back After a short 234 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: break after I chat with Naima, I decided to run 235 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: a little image search. I typed in America and Farmers, 236 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: and then America and Gardeners, and then a bunch of 237 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: other variations. It's strange how far I had to scroll 238 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: before I found images of people of color. We live 239 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: in this great, big country filled with so many different 240 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: types of Americans, and yet there's this persistent reminder of 241 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: who belongs when the truth is, gardening can and should 242 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: be for everybody. So I wanted to talk to Jasmine Jefferson, 243 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: who found the online resource black Girls with Gardens, and 244 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: Stephanie Horton, the plant fluencer behind the Instagram account Botanical 245 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: black Girl, to talk about their impact on the gardening 246 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: community and to get us all into a conversation about 247 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: the culture of gardening. Hey, Stephanie, Hey, Jasmine, you there, Hey, hey, Hi. 248 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: It's so nice to hear your voices. So the first 249 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: I'm curious about, how did you fall in love with 250 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: gardening and growing? Well, I guess I go first. I've 251 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: always been around growing. My grandparents have been growers, but 252 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: I just was not interested in it at the time. 253 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: As a child. I can remember vividly. They used to 254 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: travel with like a shovel and bag in their trunk, 255 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: so we pulled over we see something and it did. 256 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: They'll just pull it up if they wanted it. So 257 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: that I've always been around it. It's been, it's been 258 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: a thing. It just wasn't until I got Older's when 259 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: I started appreciate growing and I became slightly obsessed with it. 260 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: Was that was that embarrassing to you as a kid, 261 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: Like it was just kind of normal. I think one 262 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: time a friend of mine said something. They were like, 263 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: are they really gonna pull over? I was like, yeah, 264 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: other people who was to me? And Stephanie, can you 265 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about your plant story? Sure? 266 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: And for me it was very recently, Um when I 267 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: started falling in love with it. My dad he would always, 268 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, at least make an effort to plant tomatoes 269 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: and cucumbers as far as edible gardening. You know, that 270 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: curiosity within me came from my dad's side. His side 271 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: being from Mississippi. We would always travel down um to 272 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: the country and I would see them, you know, with 273 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: their fruit trees and their own farms and stuff, and 274 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: it was just commonplace. And I love that, and I 275 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: think that's kind of what started the idea that that 276 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: is something that I can tangibly do as an adult. 277 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: And then I started learning more about it and actually 278 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: going into it and trying to figure out how can 279 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: I do that on a smaller scale, you know. But 280 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: I've been looking at Jasmine Ford, I would say the 281 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: last two and a half years, like she's the resources. 282 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 1: I love her. So let's talk about Black Girls with 283 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: gardens because I'd love to hear a little bit more 284 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: about how that started. Jasmine. What was it that really 285 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: inspired you to start this website? Was okay, so social 286 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 1: media is a thing. Let me see who I can 287 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: connect with in reference to you know, growing. My background 288 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: is in psychology, clinical psychology, so I love to research. 289 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: I want to know more about things and understand it. 290 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: So that was the whole purpose of trying to find 291 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: something like that. And there were tons of people out 292 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: there growing, especially people of color, but I didn't see 293 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: anything where I can just have a holes like a 294 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: resource of or a collective by where people like myself 295 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: we can get together and we can talk about plants culturally. 296 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: So I decided in July of seventeen that Okay, I'm 297 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: gonna start this thing and we'll just hang out and 298 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,479 Speaker 1: talk about plants. And that's how Blackbirds with Gardens got started. 299 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: It has been just an amazing ride seeing how this 300 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: flourished in the past three years. How about you, Stephanie, 301 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: how did you end up starting this plant fluencer account? 302 00:18:55,160 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: And I'm still really weird about that? Do you want 303 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: to know what's what's a better term for you? I 304 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: don't know. I'm affecting it now, but it's just so 305 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: odd to hear sometimes. But that's not something I ever 306 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: sought out to do, but yeah, to really to kind 307 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: of like mirror some of Jasmine's experience. You know, I 308 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: started Botanical Black Girl simply because my friends were like 309 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: joning on me all the whole time, like, girl, about 310 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: your plants? Nobody cares what are you doing? So I 311 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: was like, okay, here, you know, I've created some hashtags 312 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: to hopefully assist in that, because it would have been 313 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: something that I would have appreciated this time last year. 314 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, well, well what do you talk about that? Like, 315 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: what are some of the hashtags you've created? And and uh, 316 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: what have you seen in terms of response? Oh, it's lovely? Um, 317 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: so I made a couple of hashtags versus botanical black 318 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: girl because it's me, but um, I figured that there 319 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: are other botanical black girls out there who would like 320 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: to showcase themselves and find communities. So that's one, and the 321 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: the other is black hands green thumb. Now that one 322 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: I actually took some time with because there was a 323 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: moment where everybody was either using their hands for comparison, 324 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: to size for leaves, or just look at my manicure 325 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: with my green rings, and I couldn't find any black folks. 326 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay. And then when I did it, it 327 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: really did just kind of shake something and me. It 328 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: stirred something up, and I had no idea what that was. 329 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: And it sounds frivolous how affected I could feel when 330 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: I saw a black hand doing the things that I 331 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 1: like to do. You know, that really did resonate with 332 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: me in a very real way, and I had no 333 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: idea what that was, but I was like, hey, we 334 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: need to quickly see this because I'm sure somebody else 335 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: is going to feel the same way, because representation matters, 336 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: you know, you know, doing what I mean it's simple, 337 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: but it's to the point, you know, And that's what 338 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: I hope to do is just kind of you know, 339 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 1: flying other folks so we can find one another and 340 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 1: create community. That's the biggest thing. That's it. It's you know, 341 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: in this world right now, there's so much toxicity, you 342 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 1: forget that there's like joy and kindness and and just 343 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: the joy of knowledge, you know, on the internet and 344 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: to dip into your site and Stephanie's account and these hashtags, 345 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: it's just like this really nice reminder of what the 346 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: world can be exactly. Judgmine, you mentioned that you are 347 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: a therapist, and do you think that caring for plants 348 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: and constantly thinking about plants needs makes people more empathetic? 349 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: I think so it's a practice. It's type of a 350 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: method that requires you to care about something else, something 351 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: else that's living. So if you repeat that in which 352 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: something we do as we care for clean, you can't 353 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: help but apply that to life. But they'll begin to 354 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: apply it to themselves. So they'll begin to apply it 355 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,239 Speaker 1: to their closest family members, brands, and before you know, 356 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: hopefully will have a better world. If everyone get a plan, 357 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: I know, I love I've been thinking about that, like 358 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: if we give more plans to people when we have 359 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 1: a kinder world. Um, I think I heard you say 360 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: that you've actually turned down opportunities because they didn't feel 361 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: authentic or right for your site, Jasmine. Is that true? 362 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 1: Very much? So? I pride myself with blacks with gardens 363 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: being very authentic. There have been tons of opportunities for 364 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: blackbirds with gardens to do certain things, but it just 365 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: didn't align with the type of growing that I support, 366 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: and I just turned it down. Obviously, it could have 367 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: been very lucrative and things of that sort, but that's 368 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: not what I value the most in reference to our 369 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: community is what's most sustainable for black people in green spaces. 370 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: I can honestly say I've turned down anywhere close to 371 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: twenty opportunities that's just sit in align with us. So 372 00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: do you think gardening gives people of color a sense 373 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: of liberation that maybe they're not feeling in other areas 374 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: of their life. Honestly I do. Um, gardening allows you 375 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: to take control of what you're going to consume. That's 376 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: just straight up what what it does, if we're gonna 377 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: look at it as is it provides us the opportunity 378 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 1: to grow what we want to grow, provide the nutrients 379 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: that we want to provide and that's what our family 380 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: is going to consume. In other lenses, I definitely think 381 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: it allows us to decide where we're gonna put our 382 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: money economically. Do we want to support a business or 383 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: something to that effect, do we want to support that 384 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: if they do not support us. I would also add 385 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: seeing people that I've known through the years from different 386 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: walks of life, so black folks primarily though, seeing them 387 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: happy about Look what I was able to do on 388 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: my own. Again, it's going back to that ownership. I 389 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: did this myself, and yes, I get to consume this um, 390 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: but also I can grow this. I can teach my 391 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: children to grow UM. I can teach the children in 392 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: my community to grow, and I can help them sustain 393 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: their family. So often, I think for black people particularly, 394 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: we don't just think about our own nuclear family. We 395 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: think about everyone else in the community, you know. We 396 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: we do try to evoke some sort of thought of 397 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: longevity and how this can benefit us long term, right right, 398 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: And that's the whole purpose. What we consider a group 399 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: of people like even within you know, black and brown people, 400 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: we wouldn't consider this type of people hanging with each other, 401 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: this type of people were all connected in reference, so 402 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: we like to grow things, and it's it's so inefficial 403 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: to see, like plants or just having a garden, how 404 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,479 Speaker 1: it affects us all together or how it connects us. 405 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: And um, that's one of the things that just keeps 406 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: me going in reference to you know, black oirs with 407 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: garden because obviously it does get some pushback, and it's 408 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: in reference to just people who's just not you know 409 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: who who tries to not see color. So definitely black 410 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: girds with garden daily. As much as we get good stuff, 411 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: we get bad stuff. It can be very taxing on 412 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: mental health itself. But I honestly feel like you have 413 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: to deal with the fact that racism exists. You know, 414 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: we have been intentionally kept out of certain spaces. Creating 415 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: a thrive in space means that you have to deal 416 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: with that back. It's heartbreaking that anyone would come after 417 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: you for for building something. Yeah, they definitely daily, but 418 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: obviously the good feedback always outweighs the bad. Yeah, I mean, 419 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: it's it's clear that you know, you have a real 420 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: connection to readers. Before you found this community and founded 421 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: this community, did you feel like an outsider when you 422 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: went to nurseries or when you walked into garden spaces. 423 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: Most definitely so when I went into actually when I 424 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,239 Speaker 1: started looking out looking at nurseries here, but I really 425 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: didn't get much attention or and I still don't, beyond 426 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: quite honest with you, I still don't. I have to 427 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: actually inquire and you have to show some type of 428 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: knowledge or injured or just show them. You know, Hey, 429 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: I have this instagram and that's when I get That's 430 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: when I get attention, and it's quite frankly, it's ridiculous. 431 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: But Black Girls of Garden is one of the spaces 432 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: where I feel comfortable. You know, as we're seeing more 433 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: representation in gardening and hopefully how it's affecting perceptions of gardening. 434 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: Do you think that spreads into other parts of culture. 435 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: Do you do you think that that the way we 436 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: view gardening as as more multicultural will impact how we 437 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: we view the world. I think it certainly can. I 438 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: can see like even now in our in in the 439 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 1: black plant community specifically because I know black people are 440 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: not a mount modelis um and we all come from 441 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: different walks of life. One thing that I love is 442 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: the then diagram if you will of you know, being 443 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: a black person being in the plant community and seeing 444 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: everything in the middle that kind of has these offshoots, right, 445 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: And that's not really a ven diagram, but you get 446 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I'm seeing like the sneaker sneaker heads 447 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: coming in, you know, like sneaker culture with plant culture 448 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: and black culture, and you know, it's seeing everything overlap. 449 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,479 Speaker 1: Is what I love because I think as we do 450 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: bring everything together and like a melting pot if you will, um, 451 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: we can still identify the differences and appreciate them um. 452 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: And I hope that that would bleed over into the 453 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: mass culture where they can also identify, hey, they're doing 454 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: something different, but it's still within something that we appreciate 455 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: in the larger plant community, you know, just kind of 456 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: seeing appreciate it versus see it and try to assimilate 457 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: or change it or say that this isn't the norm. 458 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: Just see it for what it is and let it 459 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 1: be amazing. I think that that could help fingers crossed. Uh, 460 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: that's my hopes. Well. Number one, it's the right thing 461 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: to do. If you want to represent guardening, you have 462 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: to appreciate everything that goes with it. And that's the 463 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: roots of it or you have to include everyone. That's 464 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: just the right thing to do. I think the exposure 465 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: to how great this community is and will help people 466 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: just be better people honestly and appreciate our culture and appreciate, 467 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: you know, the contributions we've made in reference to gardening 468 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: and agriculture. Stephanie Jasmine, thank you so much for being here. 469 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: It's really been a pleasure chatting with you both. Same here. 470 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me making me 471 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: feel all warm and fuzzy again. In so many ways, 472 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: my life has been easy. My parents raised us in 473 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: a loving and supporting home. I've been blessed with incredible 474 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: friends and teachers and family. But every once in a 475 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: while I get reminded that I don't belong. Sometimes it's 476 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: subtle when you walk into a diner and the first 477 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: question is where are you from, because the implication is 478 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: you're not from here, Or when you walk up to 479 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: a counter and the shopkeeper has served your friends but 480 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: tells you we don't take roopies. When you're in a 481 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: drug store and a mom pulls her kid close to 482 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: her when she sees you as if you're a threat 483 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: because you're wearing Indian clothes. How before a flight you 484 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: get pulled out a line, stopped and padded down. A 485 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: comical number of times, your shoes and bags get taken 486 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: away for inspection by different people, one after another, even 487 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: though you were born in New Jersey and you've never 488 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: even gotten a speeding ticket and you love this country 489 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: so much. Or the day after the last presidential election, 490 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: when you're walking down an empty street in midtown Manhattan, 491 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: middle of the day, and this tall, well dressed guy 492 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: goes out of his way to lower his shoulder and 493 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: plow into you, knocking you off the sidewalk, and you 494 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: try to think, why would anyone do that? And the 495 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: only thing you can think of is maybe it's because 496 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: of the color of my skin, or maybe it was 497 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: because I was talking to my mom, slipping in and 498 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: out of English the way we do, And you wonder, 499 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: what is it about our differences that could possibly have 500 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: offended him. I'm not complaining, and I'm not equating my 501 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: experience with anyone else's, because I haven't really suffered. But 502 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: there's certain things you just notice. And when my guests 503 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: told me how they had walk into a nursery or 504 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: a garden store and get ignored because they don't look 505 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: like quote garden Earth. I know that feeling. When Jasmine 506 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: talked about how she's worked so hard to create this 507 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: positive sight, but every week she gets some racist comments 508 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: from people outside the community, just antagonizing her. It's heartbreaking. 509 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: But I know that too, and maybe that's part of 510 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: why I admire what the work she and Naima and 511 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: Stephanie do so much. The way Naima is working to 512 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: preserve and honor of cultural history, the way Jasmine provides 513 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: knowledge and inspiration to this community and encourages girls who 514 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: are like her, who are curious. The way Stephanie is 515 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: creating hashtags and building community to tell people you belong, 516 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: Because shouldn't we all be able to hear those words 517 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: and believe them. This entire series, I've been thinking about 518 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: gardens as a refuge, how growing is good for your 519 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: mental health, and it is, but I've been thinking a 520 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: lot about gardens as identity, to a way to be 521 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: proud and show off who you are. After starting this podcast, 522 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: my aunt sent me a photo of my grandfather's garden, 523 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: my other grandfather. The photo shows this little waterfall near 524 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: his bedroom window. It's kind of amazing. He redirected a 525 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: nearby stream to pass by his window and it created 526 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: a little waterfall. As a kid, I just thought it 527 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: was neat, but now I actually see it as him 528 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: expressing himself. He was a self taught engineer, someone who 529 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: mailed away for a correspondence course in the US that 530 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: would teach him electrical engineering, and from there he figured 531 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: out how to wire a town and bring electricity to 532 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: all these places and go off. So of course it 533 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: only makes sense that his garden displayed that same ingenuity. 534 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,959 Speaker 1: His garden wasn't just the safe space from the world, 535 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: it was where he could be the most himself. And 536 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: when you think about gardens that way, they're basically these canvasses. 537 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: All the plants and flowers you choose to grow, and 538 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: the way you choose to arrange them. They're just that choices, 539 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: and every garden ends up as unique is the people 540 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: who grow them. I don't read as widely as I should, 541 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: but this week I was chatting with my producer Molly, 542 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: and she pointed me to an Alice Walker essay in 543 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: Search of Our Mother's Gardens. It's about all of these things, 544 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: race and identity, and of course gardens too. In the text, 545 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: Walker lays out how people attempted to rob slaves of 546 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:38,959 Speaker 1: their creativity, stamp out those instincts, and yet over time 547 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: that creative spirit persisted, passed down from generation to generation, 548 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: almost in secret. The women Walker describes didn't write poems 549 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: or stories. They poured their creativity where they could, letting 550 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: it seep into the spaces all around their lives. For 551 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: Walker's mother, it was her garden, so we asked Stephanie 552 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: if she would read a short passage from it. My 553 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,800 Speaker 1: mother adorned with flowers, whatever shabby house we were forced 554 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: to live in, whatever she planted grew as if by magic, 555 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: and her fame as a grower of flowers spread over 556 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: three counties because of her creativity with her flowers. Even 557 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: my memories of poverty are seen through a screen of blooms, sunflowers, petunias, roses, dahlias, 558 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: for Scythia, delphiniums, verbania, and on and on. And I 559 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: remember people coming to my mother's yard to be given 560 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: cuttings from her flowers. I hear again the praises showered 561 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: on her, because whatever rocky soil she landed on, she 562 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: turned into a garden, a garden so brilliant with colors, 563 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: so original in its design, so magna neificent with life 564 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 1: and creativity, that to this day people drive by our 565 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 1: house in Georgia, perfect strangers and imperfect strangers, and asked 566 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: to stand or walk among my mother's art. I noticed 567 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: that it is only when my mother is working in 568 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: her flowers that she is radiant, almost to the point 569 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,360 Speaker 1: of being invisible, except as creator, hand and eye. She 570 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: is involved in work, her soul must have ordering the 571 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: universe and the image of her personal conception of beauty. 572 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: Her face as she prepares the art that is her 573 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: gift is a legacy of respect she leaves to me 574 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: for all that illuminates and cherishes life. She is handed 575 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: down respect for the possibilities and the will to grasp them. 576 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: For her, so hindered and intruded upon in so many ways, 577 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: being an artist has still been a daily part of 578 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: her life. This ability to hold on, even in very 579 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: simple ways, is work black women have done for a 580 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: very long time. That's it for today's episode. Don't forget 581 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 1: whether you're a beginner like me, a pro trying something new, 582 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: or someone in between. Enjoying your backyard garden. There are 583 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: incredible resources waiting for you on the Miracle Grow website. 584 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,240 Speaker 1: Next time on our show, we'll be focusing on food 585 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: deserts in America and the people and organizations who are 586 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: creating gardening solutions to this widespread issue. If you like 587 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: what you heard, don't forget to rate and review the 588 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: show on Apple Podcast. Also, we want to hear from you. 589 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: What are your inspiring plant stories, relatable struggles or growing 590 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,720 Speaker 1: questions taggers in your post or tweet using the hashtag 591 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: Humans Growing Stuff, and don't be surprised if you hear 592 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: your story featured on an upcoming episode. Humans Growing Stuff 593 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: is a collaboration from I Heart Radio and your friends 594 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 1: at Miracle Grow. Our show was written and produced by 595 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: Molly Sosha and me Mangy Chatigler in partnership with Ryan Ovadia, 596 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 1: Daniel Ainsworth, Hayley Ericsson, and Garrett Shannon of Banter Until 597 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: next time, Thanks so much for listening.