WEBVTT - OpenAI Part 5: Beware the Ides of November 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.000 In the fall of twenty twenty three, Sam Altman was 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:08.840 more powerful than he'd ever been. He and his armies 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:13.320 of researchers had conquered new frontiers of technology and reaped 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:18.040 the financial rewards. He had defeated those who challenged his power. 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:23.599 Like Elon Musk, his dominance was cemented, or so it seemed. 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:28.440 Though he occupied the throne, there was in fact a 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:34.600 powerful and mysterious board that governed him. They had the 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.519 ability to fire him, to dissolve the whole company if 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:42.800 they saw fit. On this board there were six people, 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.080 and one of them was a woman named Helen Toner. 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.159 She was a researcher who studied AI systems, and you 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:52.920 can hear her passion here on the TED stage. 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:55.920 AI is already all around us, so we can't just 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:58.600 sit around and wait for things to become clearer. 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.560 In October, we're twenty twenty three, Helen co authored a 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:07.120 paper about various companies in the AI industry. As a researcher, 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:10.319 Helen published lots of papers, but this one was not 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.480 like the rest, because this one mentioned open AI and 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:19.199 it wasn't fully complementary. Here's my colleague, Sharene Gafari. 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.880 Toward the end of this document, they contrast open Ai 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:24.399 with a big competitor. 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:29.160 The competitor is Anthropic, the rival company started by former 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.360 open Ai employees, so it was a bit of a 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:33.320 sensitive subject. 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:36.720 And in part of that paper, basically they say that 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.399 Anthropic was more safe and contrasts that with the release 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:44.320 of open AI's chat GPT. You could read parts of 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.680 it as sort of shining up Anthropic as a better 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:51.200 model or example of how to be safe in terms 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:53.520 of how it's releasing its Ai models. 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:58.280 Now, Helen's paper only mentioned open Ai and Nthropic briefly, 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:03.720 and it's overall pretty benign comment, but Sam didn't like it. 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:09.440 He was upset. According to our reporting, Sam started back channeling, 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.440 talking to one board member then another to try to 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.240 gain their support to vote Helen out. He would approach 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:20.959 someone and say this other person agrees with me, when 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.519 sometimes that wasn't the case. A source told us that 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.679 at one point he said that a board member had 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.720 said Helen's obviously got to go, when in fact that 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.560 board member was on Helen's side. 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.720 Sam started lying to other board members in order to 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.440 try and push me off the board. We were already 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.720 talking pretty seriously about whether we needed to fire him 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:47.160 after years of this kind of thing. All four of 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.000 us who fired him came to the conclusion that we 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.839 just couldn't believe things that Sam was telling us. 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.480 That's Helen on the ted Ai show about six months 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.799 after this all went down. This is the first time 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:05.640 she publicly and unambiguously accused Sam of lying. She said 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:09.360 that the board saw through his tactics and it pushed 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:13.560 them to take dramatic action. By the way, we did 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:17.080 talk to an Open AYE spokesperson about Sam's alleged back channeling. 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.400 They told us that this account significantly differs from Sam's 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:25.080 recollection of these conversations, and they did not respond to 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.200 a list of questions that we sent them about this episode. Overall, 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:30.919 here's my colleague Rachel Metz. 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.239 Sam's trying to get them to remove Helen from the board, 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:38.240 but the board members feel like they're being manipulated and 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:42.480 perhaps hearing different people hearing different things. In the end, 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.440 instead of getting rid of Helen, the board decides to 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:46.160 get rid of Sam. 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.840 What happened with Helen's paper wasn't an isolated incident. It 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.080 was part of a bigger pattern of Sam's behavior. According 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.520 to our reporting, the board members had lost trust in 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:02.520 him over time. Helen says in the interview that Sam 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:07.640 had a habit of misrepresenting and withholding information, even outright lining, 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.760 which made it difficult for the board to do its job. 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:14.520 That job is to uphold the mission of open AI, 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:19.359 to ensure that advanced AI benefits all of humanity. And 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.600 the board members were starting to believe Sam was a 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:26.440 threat to that mission, so they start turning on Sam. 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:32.520 In particular, one very important, very surprising board member goes 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:38.200 behind Sam's back, Ilia sitt Skiver. Ilia one of Sam's 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:42.240 co founders. He had been there from day one, and 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.719 he was the AI researcher driving much of open AI's 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:50.640 technological progress. In fact, when Elon Musk goes on CNBC 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.760 to boast about his own role at open AI, he 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:54.960 name checks Ilia. 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.800 I am the reason OpenAI exists. I was instrumental in 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:05.160 cruiting the key scientists and engineers, most specifically, most notably 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:09.120 Ilia Soskayer, and ultimately decided to join opening And really, 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:13.400 Ilia joining was the was the lynchmann for Opening I 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:14.600 being ultimately successful. 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:15.400 You're very disappointed. 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:19.200 Ilia and Helen talked and two of the other board 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:23.800 members joined these conversations as well, and together they came 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:28.000 up with a secret plan. They would ambush Sam and 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:35.800 remove him from power for the good of humanity. You're 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:41.200 listening to Foundering. I'm your host Ellen Hewitt. In today's episode, 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.080 our final one for this series, will take you inside 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:49.479 the events that rocked open Ai last November. We'll cover 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.320 how Sam Altman was thrown out of his own company 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:57.960 and the series of chaotic events that followed. It's a 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:04.920 five day white knuckle boardroom drama, shock, betrayal, midnight negotiations. 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:08.559 You may think you know the story of the open 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:12.839 Ai coup, but will help you understand what happened behind 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.960 the scenes, how it all played out, and what it 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:21.480 says about Sam. The board members saw Sam as deceptive 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:26.560 and manipulative. In this episode, we'll dive into that question ourselves. 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:32.000 When Sam says something, can we trust it? We'll be 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:42.280 right back. Sam has always emphasized that it's very, very 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:47.000 important that he be able to be fired. As an example, 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.039 he set it in front of his employees at an 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:54.440 all hands meeting in twenty nineteen. Here's Reid Hoffman, the 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.279 co founder of LinkedIn and a famous venture capitalist. He 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:02.039 had recently joined the Open Ai board, and Sam brought 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:03.880 him up to talk on stage. 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:06.839 He ambushed me with the following question, which is, what 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.159 will you do if I'm not doing my job? And 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:10.800 I was like, oh, I've never been asked this by 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:12.680 a CEO in front of a company all hands before. 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.200 This is the internal thought track. I was like, well, 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.000 I'll help you, right, because like, oh, help you do 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:19.960 the job the right ways, you know, because I'm like, 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:21.880 what the hell, Sam, what you're asking me this question? 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:24.720 And he said no, no, okay, say that doesn't work and 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:25.640 I'm still not doing my job. 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:26.000 What do you do? 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.120 I'm like, well, okay, I fire you, like we get 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.800 a new CEO. And he's like, okay, great, And I 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.520 was like, okay, Like, never been asked by a CEO 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:37.440 in front of the entire company whether or not I 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.080 would fire them if they weren't doing the job. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:44.000 Wow, that's refreshing. A CEO who wants to be held accountable, 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:48.120 A CEO who wants to be fireable. What a principled guy. 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:52.840 It makes you do a double take. On his media 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.520 tour in twenty twenty three, after the success of Chat GPT, 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:00.400 Sam makes this point not just to his employees but 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:04.720 to the world. In speech after speech, he emphasizes just 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:08.440 how fiable he is and how good that is. He 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:11.960 told an interviewer, I serve at the pleasure of the board. 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.040 I do this the old fashioned way. Or the board 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:19.080 can just decide to replace the CEO, he said at 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:20.200 a Bloomberg conference. 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.400 The board can fire me. I think that's important. 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:27.080 The board can fire me. The board can replace me 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:31.840 whenever they want. It sounds so humble. He had made 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.600 this a part of his brand, and I think it's 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.680 meant to convey that open ai is a different kind 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.920 of company and he is a different kind of CEO. 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:46.240 There's another way that Sam signals his good intentions. Here 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:51.959 he doesn't own any equity in open Ai. This is unusual. 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.600 Most startup founders own a big slice of their company. 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:59.320 If the company becomes really valuable, that means the founder 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:03.720 gets rich. Sam originally didn't take equity because of a 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:07.920 specific rule related to open ai being a nonprofit. Then 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.240 he just didn't take any more. Here he is with 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:12.720 my colleague Emily Chang. 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.000 So to be clear, like if open ai, you know, 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.680 is massively profitable, you won't benefit financially. 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.360 One of the takeaways I've learned from questions like this 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.920 is that this like concept of having enough money is 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.320 not something that is easy to get across to other people. 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.520 It's hard for people to understand. 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.840 But I like, I have enough money. 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.600 I'm gonna make The thing is Sam's already rich, He's 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.640 a billionaire from his startup investments. But he often makes 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.040 this point that he has no equity, that he's not 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.760 doing open Ai for the money. It's another way for 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.760 Sam to make himself sound non threatening. He uses it 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.440 to earn our trust by suggesting he can occupy this 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:05.320 very powerful position while remaining pure of heart. To his credit, 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:09.240 I think he's being somewhat earnest here. He's acknowledging that 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:11.760 he has a lot of money already and will make 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:16.880 lots more Separate from open Ai. Focusing on money is 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:20.440 a bit of a distraction, though. Even if Sam isn't 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.800 driven by money, he can still be hungry for other 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:31.720 perks that come with running open Ai. Power, fame, influence. Okay, Now, 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:36.080 this story picks up in November twenty twenty three. Sam 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.960 is at the peak of his game. His company is 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.960 valued at eighty six billion dollars. Open ai just held 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:44.360 its first Developer's Day. 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.440 Please welcome to the stage, Sam Altman. 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:54.640 Good morning, Welcome to our first ever open Ai dev Day. 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.280 We're thrilled that you're here and this energy is awesome. 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:04.640 Month Sam is speaking at APEC, an international conference where 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:09.080 world leaders are gathered in San Francisco. It's a Thursday evening. 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:12.640 He steps off the stage, then zips over to Oakland 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:16.280 to a warehouse that's associated with a burning Man Camp. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:20.520 He gives another interview, this time in front of a 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:22.160 bunch of artists. 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.079 That desire to connect, that desire to know the human 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:28.240 behind it and be part of that community. I think, 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.360 in like a wash in a sea of tons of 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.880 machine generated art, debt, desire for the human connection will 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:35.240 go up. 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:35.720 Knock down. 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.720 Sam's telling the artists that AI will actually be great 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:44.520 for them. That night, Sam got a text from Ilia 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.400 asking if they could talk the following day, Friday, at noon, 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.920 Sam agreed he had no reason to believe anything was wrong. 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:58.199 Next Sam flew to Las Vegas. According to the Wall 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.880 Street Journal, he was hoping to catch a Formula one 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.720 race that weekend. He's really into race cars and owns 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:10.760 two McLaren's himself. So on Friday, he's in Vegas. At noon, 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:14.080 Sam clicked on a link to a Google meet. He 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.480 was met with four board members of open ai, including 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:21.960 Ilia and Helen. It was almost the entire board, but 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:26.960 one person was missing, Greg Brockman, president of open Ai, 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:32.640 Sam's co founder and his closest ally. The board didn't 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.720 need Greg to be there. They already had four votes 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:41.000 out of six. Ilia delivered the news, Sam, You're fired. 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:46.640 Sam was as shocked as anyone. The call was short. 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:52.480 At twelve nineteen, Ilia texted Greg asking to talk. At 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:56.280 twelve twenty three, Greg also clicked on a Google meet link. 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.880 They told Greg that he was being removed from the 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:04.520 board and that Sam was out. Things were kicking into 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:10.600 action fast. Open Ai published a blog post. It said 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.680 that the board had done a review and decided to 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:18.920 remove Sam because he was quote not consistently candid in 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:24.200 his communications with the board, and they added the board 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.959 no longer has confidence in his ability to continue leading 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:31.480 open Ai. Here's my colleague, Rachel Metz. 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.760 The first few lines of it, I didn't really understand 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:39.160 what was happening, and it took me a few seconds 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:42.280 to have that oh shit, mom. 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:43.760 L oh, we need to get back to some big 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.000 break you news that just crossed the wire, learning that 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.240 Sam Altman is leaving Open AI and we now have 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.440 a few more details on this. We're learning that the 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.840 decision was not voluntary. 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:53.800 At the point. 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:55.120 And here's my colleague Sharen. 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.280 This was one of the moments that I feel like 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.319 will be a shocking news moment of my career for 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:04.160 a business tech story. This is about as dramatic as 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:04.720 it gets. 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.800 The most surprising part of this was that a major 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:12.079 force behind this coup seemed to be Ilia. 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.800 Yeah, and I mean Ilia plays a key role in 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.880 this whole ouster. He is the brutus to Sam Caesar 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.080 and this is a huge betrayal. I mean, this is 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.440 the guy that's been working side by side with Sam 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.880 with Greg Brockmann, right and they're riding high at the 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.280 peak of their success right now. They should be a 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:33.040 happy trio. 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:33.400 Like. 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.560 It's just sort of a complete dissolution of what from 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.120 the outside looked like such a successful. 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:43.600 Partnership at two Ilia. We can't know what was going 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.160 on inside Ilia's head at that moment, but think about 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.880 the enormity of this all the board had planned this 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:55.440 in total secrecy because they suspected Sam might outmaneuver them 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:59.200 if he knew. They hadn't even told Microsoft until a 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:03.800 few minutes before they told Sam. They decided it had 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.800 to be cloak and dagger, an ambush, a stabbing at 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:12.640 the Senate. Ilia was also turning his back on Greg Brockman. 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.680 Greg was a staunch ally of Sam, so the board 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.880 had excluded him from their meetings about this plan, and 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:23.880 they booted him from the board. For Ilia, this had 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:28.320 to feel heavy. He and Greg had been close back 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.960 in the early idealistic days of open Ai. It was 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.200 the two of them running things, Greg chugging away at 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:39.360 the business and Ilia dreaming up their research projects. I 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:45.040 mean Ilia had officiated Greg's wedding. Now that relationship was severed. 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.160 Right after the blog post went out, Greg tweeted that 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.640 he was resigning from open ai in solidarity with Sam. 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:58.000 The board announced that the interim CEO was Mira Murradi, 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:02.960 an open Ai executive, on Friday afternoon. Then well into 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:08.280 the night, reporters were calling, texting, talking to sources trying 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.680 to figure out what the hell was going on. Here's 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:12.920 Sharene and Rachel again. 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.560 I was a scramble to figure out, well, why are 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:17.400 you saying that he's lied, and if so. 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:18.480 What did he lie about? 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:25.400 The board statement was so brief and so vague that 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.040 it left all this room open for speculation. 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.320 Everyone was obsessed with one phrase from the memo, not 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:37.800 consistently candid. The board was all but saying that Sam 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.560 had been a sneaky liar, but they were also vague 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.680 about the details. Reporters weren't the only people who jumped 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:49.680 on this. A former open ai employee named Jeffrey Irving 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:54.000 tweeted that although Sam was always nice to him, he 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:58.120 lied to him on various occasions too, and he said 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:02.280 that Sam was deceptive and manipulative to others that he knew. 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:07.399 Jeffrey didn't respond when we asked him to clarify. The Internet, 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:12.480 especially Twitter, flooded with theories about why Sam had been fired. 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:17.840 Many of them were completely speculative. Had Ilia glimpsed some 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:22.200 kind of advanced AGI internally and freaked out and wanted 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.639 to hit a kill switch? The question became a meme 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:32.600 on social media. What did Ilia see? Anyway? While everyone 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:37.000 was trying to answer that, the weekend descended into chaos 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.479 On Friday, Sam and Greg thought they were just going 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:42.800 to pack up and start a new company, I guess, 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.600 and Open AI's board members were looking for a permanent 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:51.719 CEO to take over. But on Saturday, a new idea 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:57.159 came into the picture that Sam should come back. Investors 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:01.520 and employees started pressuring the remaining board members to undo 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.800 their decision and reinstate Sam. 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:06.760 Back to the open AI story. It is still the 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.720 top story. What is happening within open AI HQ three 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.520 miles from where I'm standing? Is Sam Altman coming back? 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:12.800 On not? 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.879 I'm parked hoodside of open Aey's offices on Sunday with 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.840 a handful of other AI reporters trying to see you know, 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:23.440 Sam's reportedly in the open a office negotiating a comeback. 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.159 So I go there. I'm like, you know, hanging out outside. 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.679 I'm like looking, can we see Sam coming out or leaving? 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:32.800 And like waiting for a new pope to be named? 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:34.879 You know, you're waiting for the smoke signal to come up. 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.159 Totally, it was like waiting for a smoke signal from 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:37.600 the pope. 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.040 The twists kept coming on Sunday night. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.440 The situation it just continues to unfold, and it's chaotic. 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:46.560 Certainly has been for the last few days of boardroom 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:48.959 coup investors pushing for Altman's return. 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:51.840 Okay, fast forward to present day. This is the latest. 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.280 After a game of musical chairs, Microsoft announces that Altman 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:59.600 and his co founder Greg Brockman will join Microsoft. This 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.800 announce on literally on the heels of a frenetic weekend 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:07.800 in Silicon Valley following the aftermath of Altman's firing on Friday, Microsoft. 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:11.520 Shads in addition to hiring Sam and Greg, Microsoft actually 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.639 offers to hire any open ai employee who wants to 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:18.280 leave to join them. At the same time, the open 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:22.359 ai board has stayed firm even as talks were progressing 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:26.080 about maybe bringing Sam back. The board made a new 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:27.480 announcement late Sunday. 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.840 Emmitt Sheer was appointed interim CEO of open Ai after 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.000 the board quietly vetted candidates starting on Saturday night. 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:39.840 Emmett Sheer the co founder of Twitch. The board had 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.080 been scrambling to find an interim CEO, and this is 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:46.119 who they got. Emmett was a funny choice for a 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.760 couple reasons. He was actually one of the other founders 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:53.120 in that very first batch of y combinator with Sam 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:58.320 almost twenty years earlier, and he has also said publicly 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.239 that he worries a lot about AI going rogue and 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.959 destroying the world. You can hear a mix of confidence 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.200 and fear in his voice on the Logan Bartlett podcast 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.720 when he talked in twenty twenty three about super intelligent AI, and. 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:16.040 That kind of intelligence is just an intrinsically very dangerous 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.960 thing because intelligence is power. Human beings are the dominant 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:22.360 form of life on this planet pretty much entirely because 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:24.720 we're more smarter than the other creatures. It's like a 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.280 universe destroying bomb. Like this is not a figure it 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:31.399 out later thing. This is like a big problem Southern Manhattan, Miami. 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:35.840 Amidst all of this, things were getting really heated for Ilia. 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:39.680 Of the four board members who voted to remove Sam, 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.640 he's the only one who works at Open AI. He's 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:48.080 there alongside other employees, so he was experiencing the decision 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.960 in a much more direct way than anyone else on 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:51.399 the board. 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:55.960 I think within the company also, you see a confusion 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:00.119 as to Ilia's motivations, you know, and I knew We're 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.080 hearing that sort of staff are bewildered or confused like 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:05.520 why did Ilia do this? And that if he has 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:07.680 a good reason that why doesn't he come out and 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:10.879 say it. Ilia is a very visible, well known and 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:14.840 previously seemingly well liked person at open Ai, and all 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:16.959 of a sudden, you know, you have staff feeling like 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:19.520 who is this guy? Like why did he turn on Sam? 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:21.480 And why did he sort of screw our company? Or 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:24.160 and why did he you know, put us in this position? 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:24.520 Now? 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:30.120 Open Ai employees were confused and starting to get angry. 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:36.040 They were rapidly souring on the board, including Ilia. On Sunday, 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:40.120 Ilia invited open Ai employees to an all hands meeting. 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:44.520 And basically no one shows up. Very few people, right, 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:46.880 and it's clear that he just doesn't have the support 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:50.520 of his company, and you know, people are furious with him. 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.200 I think, in part, what all this did was show 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:56.720 the board members who had forced out Sam Altman that 0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.400 there was a lot more employee loyalty than they had 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:04.240 thought there was, and that they may have actually kicked 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:06.920 off a complete revolt inside the company. 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:12.480 And Ilia was also getting other sorts of pressure. According 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.360 to The Wall Street Journal, Greg Brockman's wife Anna had 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:19.520 a tearful conversation with Ilia in the lobby of open 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:22.919 Ai that Sunday evening. She was pleading with him to 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:27.080 reconsider his plan to change his mind and bring Sam back. 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:32.040 Around one thirty am Monday morning, a group of fed 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:36.080 up open ai employees drafted a letter to the board. 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:38.919 They said the way the board had fired Sam and 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:43.760 hadn't given an adequate explanation had shown they weren't capable 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:45.000 of leading the company. 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:48.919 I woke up early the next morning to see people 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:51.840 were signing petitions saying they were going to leave the 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:55.439 company if Sam didn't come back. This is hundreds, quickly, 0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:57.879 hundreds and hundreds. In the end, almost all of the 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.679 company's nearly eight hundred employees signed this, posting on social 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:04.679 media that open ai is nothing without its people. This 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:07.720 becomes sort of a viral tagline that you see all 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:13.159 over on x and it seems organic and fast moving 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:15.280 and sincere. 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:20.280 Soon Twitter is full of these declarations. Sam and Greg 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:24.280 start replying to the tweets with heart emojis. It was 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:26.600 an impressive display of loyalty. 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:30.639 Open Ai investors are still trying to return co founder 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:33.199 Sam Outman to a leadership role at the company. At 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.360 the same time, open ai staff are threatening mass mutiny, 0:23:36.400 --> 0:23:41.440 saying they'll follow Outman to Microsoft unless the board resigns Microhoe. 0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:45.680 In addition to heart emojis and support and loyalty, there 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:50.280 was another factor at play as well. Money. Right before 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:53.439 the coup, open Ai had been organizing a share sale 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:58.880 for its employees, letting employees cash out some of their equity. Now, 0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:02.240 with all this chaos us that sale was in danger. 0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:04.760 There was a lot of money at stake. 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:09.000 This could create a whole new class of basically overnight millionaires, 0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:11.399 and they're looking forward to this, and then now you 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:13.719 have the entire future of the company sort of up 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.880 in the air. Certain investors are saying that they may 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:21.840