WEBVTT - New Study Shows Effectiveness of Consent Decrees (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>Consent decrees were a staple of the Obama administration's efforts

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<v Speaker 1>to change troubled city police departments, often in light of

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<v Speaker 1>aggressive policing practices, but Attorney General Jeff Sessions has made

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<v Speaker 1>it clear he's no fan of consent decrees. When he

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<v Speaker 1>took office in February, he ordered a review of all

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<v Speaker 1>federal consent decrees entered in Justice Department lawsuits against local

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<v Speaker 1>police departments, and in early April, he tried to delay

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<v Speaker 1>the implementation of the consent decree reached with the City

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<v Speaker 1>of Baltimore by the Obama era Justice Department, but a

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<v Speaker 1>federal judge shot down the request and approved the consent decree.

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<v Speaker 1>A new report from researchers at the University of Texas

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<v Speaker 1>at Dallas examined consent decrees in twenty three police departments

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<v Speaker 1>and found that fewer civil rights lawsuits were filed in

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<v Speaker 1>those cities. What can we conclude from that study? Here

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<v Speaker 1>to help us examine that is Christy Lopez, professor at

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<v Speaker 1>Georgetown Law School, formerly a deputy chief in the Justice

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<v Speaker 1>Department Civil Rights Division. Christie, let's start with the basics.

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<v Speaker 1>What is a consent decree? Continue? A consent decree is

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<v Speaker 1>is simply an order that has the back end of

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<v Speaker 1>a federal judge UM that requires the police department to

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<v Speaker 1>make a set of changes to address allegations that they're

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<v Speaker 1>violing the law. Were you involved with negotiating consent decrees

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<v Speaker 1>when you're at the Department of Justice. Yes, I UM

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<v Speaker 1>let a number of the pattern or practice police investigations

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<v Speaker 1>and negotiated several consent decrees. So let's look at this study,

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<v Speaker 1>which has nothing to do with what Jeff Sessions asked for.

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<v Speaker 1>Just to be clear, explain the parameters and the conclusion reached.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is a really important study UM for a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of reasons. First, it's one of the few studies

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<v Speaker 1>that's focused on whether the consent decrees are actually bringing

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<v Speaker 1>about the ultimate goal, which is reducing police in misconduct UM,

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<v Speaker 1>and it answers that question into very important ways. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>One is that it tells us that, as we have

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<v Speaker 1>found previously from other evidence UH, consent decrease can actually

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<v Speaker 1>help cities save money by reducing the number of lawsuits

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<v Speaker 1>the policeeness conduct lawsuits. And it also is important because

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<v Speaker 1>it UM has helped confirm for us that UM that

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<v Speaker 1>consent decrease are in fact effect of a uniquely effective

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<v Speaker 1>form of reducing policeness conduct. The authors seem to have

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<v Speaker 1>hesitation in saying that one is definitely a cause of

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<v Speaker 1>the other, saying that there could be other causes and

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<v Speaker 1>more study has to be done. Do you agree with

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<v Speaker 1>that there that there could be a lot of different

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<v Speaker 1>reasons for policeness conducts. No. No, for the for the

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<v Speaker 1>for the reduction in the in the lawsuits, while the

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<v Speaker 1>and I understand it's while the consent decree is actually

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<v Speaker 1>ongoing than it been uh, sometimes goes back up again. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's an important point. I mean, they did try to control,

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<v Speaker 1>to try to determine how much of this reduction and

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<v Speaker 1>lawsuit was the result of the consent decree versus other

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<v Speaker 1>things that we're going on. But it's absolutely the case

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<v Speaker 1>that it's very difficult to control for all these different

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<v Speaker 1>different factors. Um. But um, I do. I actually think

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<v Speaker 1>that the report finds um about it up to a

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<v Speaker 1>forty reduction of lawsuits filed during the course of a

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<v Speaker 1>consent decree. Um, and then it finds that that reduction

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<v Speaker 1>seems to dissipate after consent decree is over. But I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's really important to note that UM. I think

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<v Speaker 1>there's a bit of a problem with the methodology here,

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<v Speaker 1>and as I said, it's an important study, but I

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<v Speaker 1>think it does definitely indicate the needs for further UM study.

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<v Speaker 1>It indicates while while this research report purports to focus

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<v Speaker 1>on consent decrees, if you look at the cities they

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<v Speaker 1>looked at and they're listed in foot night footnote nine

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<v Speaker 1>of the report, most of those those cities actually involved

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<v Speaker 1>what we call memorandum of agreement, not consent decrees. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's because those are the older form of agreements that

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<v Speaker 1>the Department of Jeffice used to reach before the Obama administration.

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<v Speaker 1>And it was precisely because we learned that those the

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<v Speaker 1>changes under those older m oa's didn't last as long

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<v Speaker 1>as that we moved to consent decrees. And so when

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<v Speaker 1>this report looked at the agreements that were ended, they

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<v Speaker 1>were looking primarily at those older m oas, and so

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<v Speaker 1>when they found that the the changes didn't last as long,

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<v Speaker 1>that's actually what we would expect and we would hope,

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<v Speaker 1>I would hope that these authors would be open to

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<v Speaker 1>actually focusing UM on whether consent degrees actually have a

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<v Speaker 1>longer laughing effect. And that's obviously important as Jeff Sessions

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<v Speaker 1>wants to move away from consent decrees back to those

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<v Speaker 1>more voluntary agreements. Is there any evidence for what Sessions

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<v Speaker 1>has said that heavy scrutiny of police in recent years

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<v Speaker 1>had made has made officers less aggressive, leading to a

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<v Speaker 1>rise in crime and s these like Chicago, and also

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<v Speaker 1>saying that the decrees reduced the morale of police officers.

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<v Speaker 1>So there has been a little bit of studying into that,

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<v Speaker 1>and there is not a lot. There is very little

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<v Speaker 1>evidence to support what he says and what they're what

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<v Speaker 1>evidence there is is hardly conclusive, and there's there's more

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<v Speaker 1>evidence to that is the opposite of that um there.

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<v Speaker 1>Incent decrees are correlated not only with with lower payouts

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<v Speaker 1>for cities, but they're also correlated with lower crime rates

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<v Speaker 1>and with higher office morale. We've actually seen that in studies. So,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I think that that Sessions is wed to

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<v Speaker 1>this idea that he's held for a long time. That's

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's not going to be swayed by by the

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<v Speaker 1>actual facts on the ground. And consent decrees are expensive

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<v Speaker 1>costs estimated about ten million or more in cities such

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<v Speaker 1>as Baltimore and New Orleans. Explain what that money goes to.

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<v Speaker 1>Some of it, Yeah, I mean they do. Yeah, there's

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<v Speaker 1>no questions. They do cost the money. A lot of

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<v Speaker 1>money goes to training officers, and I think that's why

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<v Speaker 1>I hope that we would all agree that that's a

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<v Speaker 1>really important investment to be put in our police departments.

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<v Speaker 1>But some of it does go to UM creating systems

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<v Speaker 1>for collecting information, but that really opposite that the departments

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<v Speaker 1>has had for a long time. And some of it

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<v Speaker 1>goes to mock to paying monitors to actually be able

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<v Speaker 1>to report out is neutral independent people about whether the

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<v Speaker 1>changes are being made. But I think you have to

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<v Speaker 1>look at again the reduction of UM lawsuits. This shows

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<v Speaker 1>you look for example at Chicago, which has paid out

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<v Speaker 1>well over half a billion dollars in the past ten

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<v Speaker 1>years or so in lawsuits to see to ask yourself

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<v Speaker 1>whether this is would be rather be spending our money

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<v Speaker 1>to get our police department up to constitutional muster, or

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<v Speaker 1>would be rather be paying lawyers and litigants for being

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<v Speaker 1>abused by the police department. Some civil rights advocates fear

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<v Speaker 1>that Sessions memo could imperil the status of agreements that

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<v Speaker 1>have yet to be finalized. I think there's one pending

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<v Speaker 1>with Chicago Police Department, right do do you are you

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<v Speaker 1>concerned that that might happen? Yes, I am. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>I think that the a G has made it clear

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<v Speaker 1>that he doesn't think that preventing systemic police abuse is

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<v Speaker 1>a worthy endeavor for the federal government. Um. He's made

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<v Speaker 1>it clear that, UM, he believes it's worth tolerating police

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<v Speaker 1>abuse if that if that makes it easier for police

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<v Speaker 1>to lock up for people of color for low level

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<v Speaker 1>drug crimes. And he believe that, notwithstanding the research that

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<v Speaker 1>shows us that that sort of policing makes communities and

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<v Speaker 1>police officers less safe, stop to mention that it perpetuates

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<v Speaker 1>violations of people's civil rights. UM. So you know, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>obviously concerned, and I think that this this report just

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<v Speaker 1>gives us more evidence that consent decrees again are uniquely

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<v Speaker 1>useful in helping to change departments but may have been

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<v Speaker 1>trying to change for decades and not been able to

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<v Speaker 1>in the past. Thank you so much for being on

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Law. That's Christie Lopez. She's a professor at Georgetown

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<v Speaker 1>Law School. That's it for this edition of Bloomberg Law.

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<v Speaker 1>Will be back tomorrow one pm Wall Street Time, and

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