1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,920
Speaker 1: Consent decrees were a staple of the Obama administration's efforts

2
00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,200
Speaker 1: to change troubled city police departments, often in light of

3
00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 1: aggressive policing practices, but Attorney General Jeff Sessions has made

4
00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,480
Speaker 1: it clear he's no fan of consent decrees. When he

5
00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,120
Speaker 1: took office in February, he ordered a review of all

6
00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:21,400
Speaker 1: federal consent decrees entered in Justice Department lawsuits against local

7
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,040
Speaker 1: police departments, and in early April, he tried to delay

8
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,120
Speaker 1: the implementation of the consent decree reached with the City

9
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,520
Speaker 1: of Baltimore by the Obama era Justice Department, but a

10
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,720
Speaker 1: federal judge shot down the request and approved the consent decree.

11
00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,680
Speaker 1: A new report from researchers at the University of Texas

12
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,640
Speaker 1: at Dallas examined consent decrees in twenty three police departments

13
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,000
Speaker 1: and found that fewer civil rights lawsuits were filed in

14
00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,760
Speaker 1: those cities. What can we conclude from that study? Here

15
00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:54,120
Speaker 1: to help us examine that is Christy Lopez, professor at

16
00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,160
Speaker 1: Georgetown Law School, formerly a deputy chief in the Justice

17
00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,920
Speaker 1: Department Civil Rights Division. Christie, let's start with the basics.

18
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:07,160
Speaker 1: What is a consent decree? Continue? A consent decree is

19
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,200
Speaker 1: is simply an order that has the back end of

20
00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,959
Speaker 1: a federal judge UM that requires the police department to

21
00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,119
Speaker 1: make a set of changes to address allegations that they're

22
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:21,360
Speaker 1: violing the law. Were you involved with negotiating consent decrees

23
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,360
Speaker 1: when you're at the Department of Justice. Yes, I UM

24
00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,480
Speaker 1: let a number of the pattern or practice police investigations

25
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,800
Speaker 1: and negotiated several consent decrees. So let's look at this study,

26
00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 1: which has nothing to do with what Jeff Sessions asked for.

27
00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:41,120
Speaker 1: Just to be clear, explain the parameters and the conclusion reached.

28
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,240
Speaker 1: So this is a really important study UM for a

29
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,880
Speaker 1: couple of reasons. First, it's one of the few studies

30
00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,680
Speaker 1: that's focused on whether the consent decrees are actually bringing

31
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,880
Speaker 1: about the ultimate goal, which is reducing police in misconduct UM,

32
00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,640
Speaker 1: and it answers that question into very important ways. UM.

33
00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,440
Speaker 1: One is that it tells us that, as we have

34
00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,280
Speaker 1: found previously from other evidence UH, consent decrease can actually

35
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,120
Speaker 1: help cities save money by reducing the number of lawsuits

36
00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,360
Speaker 1: the policeeness conduct lawsuits. And it also is important because

37
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,920
Speaker 1: it UM has helped confirm for us that UM that

38
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,240
Speaker 1: consent decrease are in fact effect of a uniquely effective

39
00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:31,440
Speaker 1: form of reducing policeness conduct. The authors seem to have

40
00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:36,280
Speaker 1: hesitation in saying that one is definitely a cause of

41
00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,600
Speaker 1: the other, saying that there could be other causes and

42
00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,120
Speaker 1: more study has to be done. Do you agree with

43
00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,320
Speaker 1: that there that there could be a lot of different

44
00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:51,160
Speaker 1: reasons for policeness conducts. No. No, for the for the

45
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 1: for the reduction in the in the lawsuits, while the

46
00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,440
Speaker 1: and I understand it's while the consent decree is actually

47
00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,480
Speaker 1: ongoing than it been uh, sometimes goes back up again. Yeah,

48
00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,120
Speaker 1: that's an important point. I mean, they did try to control,

49
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,840
Speaker 1: to try to determine how much of this reduction and

50
00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,720
Speaker 1: lawsuit was the result of the consent decree versus other

51
00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,000
Speaker 1: things that we're going on. But it's absolutely the case

52
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,600
Speaker 1: that it's very difficult to control for all these different

53
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,520
Speaker 1: different factors. Um. But um, I do. I actually think

54
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,359
Speaker 1: that the report finds um about it up to a

55
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,960
Speaker 1: forty reduction of lawsuits filed during the course of a

56
00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,000
Speaker 1: consent decree. Um, and then it finds that that reduction

57
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,880
Speaker 1: seems to dissipate after consent decree is over. But I

58
00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,600
Speaker 1: think it's really important to note that UM. I think

59
00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,520
Speaker 1: there's a bit of a problem with the methodology here,

60
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,520
Speaker 1: and as I said, it's an important study, but I

61
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,960
Speaker 1: think it does definitely indicate the needs for further UM study.

62
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 1: It indicates while while this research report purports to focus

63
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,840
Speaker 1: on consent decrees, if you look at the cities they

64
00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,520
Speaker 1: looked at and they're listed in foot night footnote nine

65
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,720
Speaker 1: of the report, most of those those cities actually involved

66
00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,480
Speaker 1: what we call memorandum of agreement, not consent decrees. And

67
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,880
Speaker 1: that's because those are the older form of agreements that

68
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,520
Speaker 1: the Department of Jeffice used to reach before the Obama administration.

69
00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,920
Speaker 1: And it was precisely because we learned that those the

70
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,280
Speaker 1: changes under those older m oa's didn't last as long

71
00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,080
Speaker 1: as that we moved to consent decrees. And so when

72
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,120
Speaker 1: this report looked at the agreements that were ended, they

73
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,520
Speaker 1: were looking primarily at those older m oas, and so

74
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,960
Speaker 1: when they found that the the changes didn't last as long,

75
00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,359
Speaker 1: that's actually what we would expect and we would hope,

76
00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,159
Speaker 1: I would hope that these authors would be open to

77
00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,880
Speaker 1: actually focusing UM on whether consent degrees actually have a

78
00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,360
Speaker 1: longer laughing effect. And that's obviously important as Jeff Sessions

79
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,920
Speaker 1: wants to move away from consent decrees back to those

80
00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:50,520
Speaker 1: more voluntary agreements. Is there any evidence for what Sessions

81
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,599
Speaker 1: has said that heavy scrutiny of police in recent years

82
00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,159
Speaker 1: had made has made officers less aggressive, leading to a

83
00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,000
Speaker 1: rise in crime and s these like Chicago, and also

84
00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:08,840
Speaker 1: saying that the decrees reduced the morale of police officers.

85
00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:10,960
Speaker 1: So there has been a little bit of studying into that,

86
00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,600
Speaker 1: and there is not a lot. There is very little

87
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,120
Speaker 1: evidence to support what he says and what they're what

88
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,440
Speaker 1: evidence there is is hardly conclusive, and there's there's more

89
00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,360
Speaker 1: evidence to that is the opposite of that um there.

90
00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,720
Speaker 1: Incent decrees are correlated not only with with lower payouts

91
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,440
Speaker 1: for cities, but they're also correlated with lower crime rates

92
00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,719
Speaker 1: and with higher office morale. We've actually seen that in studies. So,

93
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,919
Speaker 1: you know, I think that that Sessions is wed to

94
00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,919
Speaker 1: this idea that he's held for a long time. That's

95
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,159
Speaker 1: that's that's not going to be swayed by by the

96
00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,800
Speaker 1: actual facts on the ground. And consent decrees are expensive

97
00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 1: costs estimated about ten million or more in cities such

98
00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,599
Speaker 1: as Baltimore and New Orleans. Explain what that money goes to.

99
00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,839
Speaker 1: Some of it, Yeah, I mean they do. Yeah, there's

100
00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:59,880
Speaker 1: no questions. They do cost the money. A lot of

101
00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,800
Speaker 1: money goes to training officers, and I think that's why

102
00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 1: I hope that we would all agree that that's a

103
00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,280
Speaker 1: really important investment to be put in our police departments.

104
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,080
Speaker 1: But some of it does go to UM creating systems

105
00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,640
Speaker 1: for collecting information, but that really opposite that the departments

106
00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,160
Speaker 1: has had for a long time. And some of it

107
00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,640
Speaker 1: goes to mock to paying monitors to actually be able

108
00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,320
Speaker 1: to report out is neutral independent people about whether the

109
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 1: changes are being made. But I think you have to

110
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,920
Speaker 1: look at again the reduction of UM lawsuits. This shows

111
00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,279
Speaker 1: you look for example at Chicago, which has paid out

112
00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 1: well over half a billion dollars in the past ten

113
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,440
Speaker 1: years or so in lawsuits to see to ask yourself

114
00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,680
Speaker 1: whether this is would be rather be spending our money

115
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,320
Speaker 1: to get our police department up to constitutional muster, or

116
00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,400
Speaker 1: would be rather be paying lawyers and litigants for being

117
00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,119
Speaker 1: abused by the police department. Some civil rights advocates fear

118
00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 1: that Sessions memo could imperil the status of agreements that

119
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,760
Speaker 1: have yet to be finalized. I think there's one pending

120
00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:03,080
Speaker 1: with Chicago Police Department, right do do you are you

121
00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,360
Speaker 1: concerned that that might happen? Yes, I am. I mean

122
00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 1: I think that the a G has made it clear

123
00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,720
Speaker 1: that he doesn't think that preventing systemic police abuse is

124
00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,680
Speaker 1: a worthy endeavor for the federal government. Um. He's made

125
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,080
Speaker 1: it clear that, UM, he believes it's worth tolerating police

126
00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,480
Speaker 1: abuse if that if that makes it easier for police

127
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,440
Speaker 1: to lock up for people of color for low level

128
00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,280
Speaker 1: drug crimes. And he believe that, notwithstanding the research that

129
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,160
Speaker 1: shows us that that sort of policing makes communities and

130
00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,440
Speaker 1: police officers less safe, stop to mention that it perpetuates

131
00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,960
Speaker 1: violations of people's civil rights. UM. So you know, I'm

132
00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,000
Speaker 1: obviously concerned, and I think that this this report just

133
00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 1: gives us more evidence that consent decrees again are uniquely

134
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,480
Speaker 1: useful in helping to change departments but may have been

135
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,240
Speaker 1: trying to change for decades and not been able to

136
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 1: in the past. Thank you so much for being on

137
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,200
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law. That's Christie Lopez. She's a professor at Georgetown

138
00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,080
Speaker 1: Law School. That's it for this edition of Bloomberg Law.

139
00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,560
Speaker 1: Will be back tomorrow one pm Wall Street Time, and

140
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,760
Speaker 1: hope you'll join us. That to our technical director Chris Trike,

141
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,680
Speaker 1: Comey and our producer David Suckerman. Coming up next, Bloomberg

142
00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,040
Speaker 1: Markets with Carol Master and Corey Johnson, broadcasting live from

143
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:13,800
Speaker 1: JP morgan Headquarters for the Defined Contribution Summit, and Carol

144
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,320
Speaker 1: is here in spirit with us to tell us what's

145
00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,160
Speaker 1: happening to Carol parent Spirit Just around the corner from

146
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,720
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Headquarters here on Park Avenue, JP Morgan's headquarters in

147
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:25,680
Speaker 1: New York. We are going to be talking about retirement

148
00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,360
Speaker 1: June back over to you. That's something that we all

149
00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,320
Speaker 1: need to learn about. This is Bloomberg