1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,159 Speaker 1: Brought to you by Bank of America Merrill Lynch seeing 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: what others have seen, but uncovering what others may not. 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: Global Research that helps You Harness disruption Voted top global 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: research firm five years running. Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: Smith Incorporated. This is Masters in Business with Barry Riddholes 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio this week. On the podcast, I speak 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: with two fascinating people. Both come from JP Morgan. Chris 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: Ventresca and Liz Myers effectively run the M and A 9 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: and the I p O divisions. Uh at JP Morgan. 10 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: That's not their formal title. I'll read that off on 11 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: the actual show, but you will find uh this to 12 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: be a deeply wonky, fascinating conversation if you are at 13 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: all interested in how I p O s run, in 14 00:00:55,320 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: in how mergers and acquisitions operate, how companies make the 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 1: decision to either go I p O or be acquired 16 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: or make an acquisition. Uh. This gets into a lot 17 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: of the nuts and bolts of that process. I found 18 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: it to be really quite interesting. It it's rare to 19 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 1: not only speak with to highly placed people within Wall 20 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: Street banks like this who are not the face of 21 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: the firm not on television and radio all the time, 22 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 1: but really, um, are the people who roll up their 23 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: sleeves and and get the deals done. Uh. It was 24 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: really an interesting conversation. Was also the first time we 25 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: had a conversation with two guests at once. The three 26 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: way discussion a little bit challenging for me as the 27 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: host to try and figure out how to coordinate that 28 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: and to to bring both of them in. UM. I've 29 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: said this before, I'll repeat it again. I have no 30 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: professional radio background of training, and when I watched the 31 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: pros do it, when I watch guys like Pim Fox 32 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: or or Tom Keane or Charlie Rose run a conversation, 33 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: and I have really tremendous respect for how skilled and 34 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: talented and and just experienced and knowledgeable those folks are, 35 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: and and and how effortless and easy they make it look. 36 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: When when you've done a hundred of these, you realize, wow, 37 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 1: this is much harder than that appears. So for those 38 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: of you who are at all interested in investment, banking, 39 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: in underwriting, I p O S, syndication, and mergers and acquisitions, 40 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: I think you'll find something interesting here. Uh. They both 41 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,679 Speaker 1: have a fascinating background undergraduated Princeton and then they each 42 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: went to different UH schools for for MBA's. I think 43 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: you'll find this to be an interesting conversation. So, with 44 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: no further ado, my conversation with Chris Van Tresca and 45 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: Liz Myers of JP Morgan. This is Masters in Business 46 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today 47 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: is a pair of bankers from JP Morgan. I have 48 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: Chris Van Tresca, he's the global co head of Mergers 49 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: and Acquisitions, and Liz Myers, she is the head of 50 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: global equity capital markets. Chris has advised on over one 51 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: trillion dollars worth of announced transactions, be they strategic acquisitions, 52 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: mergers and sales. Liz has done not quite as much, 53 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: but almost as much in terms of global equity capital markets, 54 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: including I p O s, follow ons, convertibles. They each 55 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: went undergraduate to Princeton. Liz has an MBA from Harvard, 56 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: Chris has an MBA from n y U. Chris and Liz, 57 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: welcome to Bloomberg. Thank thanks for having so let's jump 58 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: right in with what you do, Liz, for for listeners 59 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: who may not know what exactly are global equity capital markets, Well, 60 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: the Equity Capital Markets group is really the equity underwriting 61 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: group at JP Morgan, and so we are responsible for 62 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: I p O s, follow on offerings for public companies, 63 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: convertible securities that companies issue, and equity private placements. So 64 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: companies that are looking to access equity before they go 65 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: forth with an IPO. And I assume you may do 66 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: some work with the M and A department as well. 67 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: We do. Chris and I have known each other for many, 68 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: many years, and we do spend a lot of time 69 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: on certain client transactions together. Um importantly, it maybe acquisition finance. Uh, 70 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 1: it may be a dual track I p O and 71 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: sale process. So so let's talk a little bit about 72 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: the state of the business these days. Not too long ago, 73 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: there was an article in the Wall Street Journal that 74 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: said I p O s were at a twenty year low. 75 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: What are you guys seeing in either equity capital markets 76 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: or in mergers and acquisitions? Does that sum up the 77 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: state of the street accurately to you? Well, I think 78 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: it's really This year has been a tale of two cities. 79 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: The first part of the year as much lower in 80 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: terms of volumes, and now as we've passed Labor Day 81 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: and entered into September. As expected, We've seen a huge 82 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: resurgence in the I p o market and broadly in 83 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: the equity capital market, so volumes are up substantially. I 84 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: had mentioned on Bloomer TV back in August that we 85 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: expected to have over twenty I p o s launched 86 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: in the month of September, and that statistics still holds 87 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: holds true. So a lot of exciting things happening on 88 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: our platform. How typical is that for what we usually 89 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: see in the full of each year. Well, the fall 90 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,239 Speaker 1: can sometimes be a catch up period from a slower summer, 91 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: but this year in particular just seems livelier than ever 92 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: across all sectors. It's interesting to see that some of 93 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: our largest deals on the platform are coming out of Asia, 94 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: so just recently pricing the China Postal Savings Bank I 95 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: p o UM, we have an interesting privatization on the 96 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: road in Asia, and a variety of different billion dollar 97 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: plus I p o s. Before I get to Chris's 98 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: M and A work, one would imagine that Asia has 99 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: been ascended to the as few years. Is that a 100 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: fair way to sum that up? Well, I think it's 101 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: it's continued to progress, particularly sentiment wise, when earlier in 102 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: the year there was a lot of concern about Chinese 103 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: growth slowing, and I think we're seeing more and more 104 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: signs of the macro backdrop improving, whether it's steel prices, 105 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: new projects, starts. On the industrial side is starting to 106 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: feel a lot better, and the Chinese consumer is always 107 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: of great interest. So christ let me ask the same 108 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: question to you about uh, the M and A business, 109 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: the emergence and acquisitions business. What is the sid of 110 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: the street these days? How active is it? What do 111 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: you see? So you really have to start with last 112 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: year was this historic M and A market, huge volumes, 113 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: driven by lots of companies with great balance sheets, a 114 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: lot of access to capital, but very weak organic growth 115 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: and their stock price and then multiple was anticipating ability 116 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: to grow, but what they looked in their own business plans, 117 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: they were struggling in this global economy which has been 118 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: pretty modest. How do I find that stock price are 119 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: shiation and growth in my company? Let's use M and 120 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: A as a tool. So last year historic records very 121 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: much by side driven M and A activity. Companies that 122 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: could afford it, looking for smart synergistic acquisitions, and as 123 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: we moved into this past year, much of that has continued. 124 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: The actual deal count is down about eight percent when 125 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: we tracked the number of transactions two fifty million dollars 126 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: and greater, so it is a little lighter. The mega deals, 127 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: the ten billion dollar plus deals are down greater than 128 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: that about so a lot of the headlines may say, oh, 129 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: M and A is not that busy, it's a lot 130 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: slower than last year. But what we're feeling and actually 131 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: experiences a continuation of an extremely healthy M and A market. 132 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: A lot of the themes that were in existence last 133 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: year are still here today. Very strong access to financing, 134 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: meaning historically low rates for debt financing. In size companies 135 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: that generally are trading at a pretty healthy stock price 136 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: multiple are able to use their equity as an acquisition currency. 137 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: So if I'm a buyer and go get debt to 138 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: pay for that purchase price, I can use my own 139 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: stock and I'm leaning into that if it's a smart deal, 140 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: that's bolstering what's likely still from any companies weak organic growth. 141 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: So so let's talk about that cheap fund and saying 142 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: I've heard from people on the street you know, the 143 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: FED is the only game in town. If it wasn't 144 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: for them, none of these fill in the blank mergers 145 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: I p o s share by backs would would take place. 146 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: Seems like an overstatement. How significant is the Federal reserve 147 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: to what what both of you do? So when we're 148 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: talking with our clients, it always ends up coming back 149 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: to what's the underlying growth in their business, which is 150 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: heavily linked to the economic outlook and the growth they're 151 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: seeing across the globes. So in an environment where there's 152 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 1: been low rates, that's largely been because the global economic 153 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: growth outlook has been so weak. So those companies from 154 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: an M and A matter in that environment have low 155 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: organic growth and are using M and A as a 156 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: tool to bolster their growth profile. Even if rates go up, 157 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 1: the answer maybe, well, where it's a going up because 158 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: the economic outlook is improving, so those companies are gaining 159 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 1: extra free cash flow. So even if rates are going 160 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: up for the right reasons a better global economy, I 161 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,479 Speaker 1: think that will just continue to support a healthy strategic 162 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 1: dialogue among companies. Buyers will still look for ways to 163 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: put that capital to work. And then if I'm a seller, 164 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: typically what I found last year is if my stock 165 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: price was trading at almost an historic high or at 166 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: least a fifty two week kai, and someone showed up 167 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: with an acquisition premium, and then I compared that to 168 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: what I was able to deliver on my own. You know, 169 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: I may say, hmm, that's pretty good deal for my shareholders. 170 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: Why don't I crystallize that premium? And the right answer 171 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: for shareholders to sell my company. I'm Barry rid Helts. 172 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My 173 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: special guest today is Chris Ventresca and Liz Myers of 174 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: JP Morgan. He is the global co head of Mergers 175 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: and Acquisitions. Liz is the head of Global equity capital Markets. 176 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: And let's jump right into what these processes look like 177 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: from the company's perspective. Walk us through a process. How 178 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: does a deal begin? If someone wants to either go 179 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: I P O or do an acquisition or merger, how 180 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: does that process begin from the corporate side? Well, I'm 181 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: happy to start. I think the company side for an 182 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: acquisition really starts with that company's strategic planning process that 183 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: the senior management team, the board, and very often us 184 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: as bankers advising them are part of where do you 185 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: want to see and take your company in the next 186 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: three to five years. What areas either geographically or product 187 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 1: segments or customer segments are we in that we want 188 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: to grow? What areas are we missing that we think 189 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: we should be in as a competitive matter, And then 190 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: the conversation shifts to are we able to accomplish those 191 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: objectives are on through capital expenditures or R and D 192 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: or is that not possible? And maybe there is a 193 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,119 Speaker 1: target out there that fits very neatly into our strategy 194 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: as an acquisition candidate. That's the classic building or buy 195 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: it correct and very often that's a discussion that happens 196 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: over years. So a company is thinking about its own prospects, 197 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: it's plan its performance, trying to assess where it's competitively 198 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: strong or weak, and then coming up to some conclusion 199 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: about this is a part of the world we need 200 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: to be in. How can we do that. This is 201 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: a product we're missing, or capability or technological capability or 202 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: expertise that we're missing. Can we build it? Can we 203 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: buy it? Who's out there if we want to buy something. 204 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: Let's now talk about potential candidates around the globe that 205 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: could be interesting puzzle pieces for us to put into 206 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: that and that again is something company starts with. We're 207 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:42,719 Speaker 1: by their side helping them think about it. Where we 208 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: become very helpful in that is sanity checking that strategy 209 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 1: and helping identify companies around the world that may fit 210 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: into the solution they're looking so that that's fascinating to 211 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: hear that it's a multi year process. The public here's 212 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: about some crazy idea gets floated. One was that Apple 213 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: was going to buy the claren came out of the 214 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: f T. I have no idea if it's true. I'm 215 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: not going to ask anybody. But the way you're describing 216 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: it is this fits into the broader context a long 217 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: term strategic plan. It's not just hey, shiny orange car, 218 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: let's get those. It's a very very different approach. Yeah, 219 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: just to reiterate, it is very very often a multi 220 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: year process. And even when you identify that target, there's 221 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: then and the bankers are now getting more about We're 222 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: helping them think through how do we value that target, 223 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 1: what's the price that's appropriate to pay. Do we think 224 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: they'd be willing to take that price? And sometimes with 225 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: the market volatility, and stock prices moving. Sometimes the advice is, 226 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: let's wait a quarter or two to just see how 227 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: the dust settles with regards to some news announcements of 228 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: their performance, and let's have a strategy of approaching and 229 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: even once you approach it, maybe another few months or 230 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: quarters before you actually get to the point of being 231 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: very definitive on this is the price I'm prepared to pay? 232 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: Are you prepared to accept it? Type of conversation. And 233 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: again that could last certainly months and often into years. 234 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 1: So so, Liz, when you work with companies that want 235 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: to go public, the assumption is, especially with startups and 236 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: tech companies, that's the exit strategy down the road or 237 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: is it still is it? Is I p O the 238 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: endgame as much as it might have been uh some 239 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: years ago. Well, there are really three reasons that a 240 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: company would decide to go public. One is they're looking 241 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: to accelerate growth, similar to the theme that Chris mentioned 242 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: about why they might be looking to make an acquisition. 243 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: The second typical reason maybe that they have a balance 244 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: sheet that's a little too levered for their comfort zone, 245 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: so they'd like to raise some equity capital and pay 246 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: down debt. And then the third factor that may weigh 247 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: in is they may be owned by a financial sponsor 248 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: who's looking to begin the process of exit after three, five, 249 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: ten years UM, so that can be also a driver 250 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: of an ip O. Someone sent me an email complaining 251 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: about the lack of public companies that one point in time, 252 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: the Wilshire five thousand actually had five thousand companies. So 253 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: what do we see as the trend in in companies 254 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: going public? We've heard a lot of complaints from company 255 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: as well. It's easier to stay private. Uh. You see 256 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: Uber has had no problem raising capital. Is this a 257 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: real issue or is this Uh? People just complaining for 258 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: the sake of complaining. Well, we have a brisk equity 259 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: private placement business. But what I would say is that 260 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: it's not a one size fits all type of approach. 261 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: Not every company is looking to raise private capital. It's 262 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: typically more dilutive than doing an I p O UM, 263 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: and they really private equity is more dilutive than an IPO. 264 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: Not always, but oftentimes the company is earlier in its 265 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: life cycle, so they may not have predictable earnings, a 266 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: visible or transparent revenue stream, so there's a lot more 267 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: risk inherent. Often in companies that are earlier stage and 268 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: less mature than when they ultimately get to being I 269 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: p O ready, where we often would recommend that they 270 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: have good transparency in their earnings, a stronger balance sheet, 271 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: so just d risked and more mature. So that sounds 272 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: like a checklist for how to run a successful I 273 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: p O. What are the other factors and pitfalls that 274 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: are out there? Sure? Well, I'd say certainly, having being 275 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: involved in a growing and attractive sector is checkbox number one. 276 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: Secondly would be having a really attractive niche within that, 277 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: so leadership within an attractive sector, having a business model 278 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: that is easily understandable and transparent, having a strong balance sheet, 279 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: and lastly having strong management. Helpfully to have management who's 280 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: had public company experience but not required and oftentimes companies 281 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: that have helpful and credible strategic backing from a private 282 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: equity firm or venture capital investor. How about you, Chris, 283 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: what's your checklist for a successful acquisition? What what works 284 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: and what doesn't? Yeah? I think the key is you 285 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: go back to what are we good at? What are 286 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: our core competencies as an acquirer, and can we apply 287 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: those to this target? I think where companies get in 288 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: trouble is they stray too far away from what they're 289 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: good at and they try to expand into areas that 290 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: they're not as familiar with or don't have the capabilities. 291 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: So always stick to your knitting, stay in your lane. 292 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: You know those phrases we use a lot with companies 293 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: and their boards. The key then once you realize this 294 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: is a business we can add value to and we 295 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: understand and we have the skill set and it's filling 296 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: a need that we have, then we very quickly well, 297 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: what is it worth? And do we pay a price 298 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: that actually gives us a return that's better than our 299 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: cost of capital Because you may find that great target, 300 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: but if you overpay for it, that's a destructive element 301 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: to shareholder value. So where we'll end up working very 302 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: closely with our clients is just that question, what is 303 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: this business worth? What synergies are created under our ownership? 304 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: How much of those are we willing to keep for 305 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: ourselves or potentially pay away in a premium, And have 306 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: that discussion and ultimately a negotiation with that seller who's 307 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: on the opposite side of that dial, saying what is 308 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: my own self worth? What are my prospects. Is someone 309 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: offering me something that's better than I can do on 310 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: my own. Maybe it's a stock deal where I don't 311 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: need to just close the file on this, My shareholders 312 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: are getting a new piece of equity that has upside 313 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: to it. Or maybe it's a cash deal where I 314 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: truly you know, three months from this announcement date, we're 315 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: going to close our shareholders again and get all cashed out. 316 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: And how do I feel about that? Did they get 317 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,719 Speaker 1: enough return above where the stock was trading to make 318 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: us all feel good that that as a board we 319 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: did the right thing for our shareholders as a cash seller, 320 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: those are the key questions we deal with and work companies. 321 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: Coming up, we continue our conversation with JP Morgan's Chris 322 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: Vantresca and Liz Myers, looking at the relationship between education 323 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: and finance. I'm Barry Riholds. You're listening to Master's in 324 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: Business on Bloomberg Radio. My special guests this week are 325 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: twenty year veterans of JP Morgan in both the M 326 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: and A and global equity capital markets. Chris Van Tresca 327 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: is the global co head of Mergers and Acquisitions at 328 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: JP Morgan. Elizabeth Myers is head of Global e c 329 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: M Equity Capital Markets. Both of them have been with 330 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: JP Morgan for twenty years, and I guess literally have 331 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: decades of experience in the space. Let's talk a little 332 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: bit about your educational background and what's needed for this 333 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: sort of work in finance. Liz, you have an economics 334 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 1: degree from Princeton undergrad Chris you also went to Princeton 335 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: and and have a Bachelors of Science and Engineering in 336 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: electrical engineering, a little bit unusual. And then both of 337 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: you have n b as. Chris you at at n 338 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: y U, Liz you at Harvard. So the first question 339 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: is pretty straightforward. You each seem to have taken slightly 340 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: different paths to work your way into finance. What did 341 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 1: your educational background lead you towards in terms of of 342 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: what you wanted to focus on as a career. Senior 343 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: year in Princeton getting my electrical engineering degree and interviewing 344 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: around and realized I didn't necessarily want to be an 345 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: electrical engineer, but I loved problem solving, I love analytical situations, 346 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: and I did enjoy being around people and being a 347 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,160 Speaker 1: part of a team. So I had branched off into 348 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: different areas of either consulting or computer programming jobs at 349 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: different types of firms, and JP Morgan at that time 350 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: and still does today, offered what they called a Global 351 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: Technology and Operations training program where they took folks like 352 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: myself and became computer programmers or technical folks to help bankers. 353 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: And I was always intrigued by the financial markets and 354 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: finance in general, and the opportunity to help bankers think 355 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: about how to value companies, what tools do they need 356 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: the analytical tool set to help them do their job 357 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: was very interesting to me, so I joined the firm 358 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: on that basis actually spent many years doing that job, 359 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: which was supporting bankers with all the analytical tools that 360 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 1: they needed. As I did that function, I also realized 361 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: I liked their job a heck of a lot. So 362 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: I went back um at night part time at n 363 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: y U cern School of Business and proceeded to get 364 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: my m b A and finance great managers great mentors 365 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: along the way early in my career, supporting that I 366 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: was able to do that while staying at JP Morgan, 367 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: and ultimately made a career change once I finished my 368 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: m b A. This is now the mid nineties, I 369 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: switched over and became what we call an associate in 370 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: our investment banking program. Became a young investment banker picked 371 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: the M and A Group at the time. I loved 372 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: the valuation aspects, the analytical rigor around analyzing companies. I'd 373 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: like the tactical side and strategic side of advising companies 374 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: and that whole thought process. It appealed to kind of 375 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: my core competencies as as well as what I just 376 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: saw and watched others do with great enthusiasm. So I 377 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 1: jumped in with both feed into the M and A 378 00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: Group in the mid nineties and fell in love with 379 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: the business and have just essentially grown up at JP 380 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: Morgan in that business, taking on greater responsibilities throughout the years. Liz, 381 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: you you took a more traditional route economics to M 382 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: b A. How did you find your academic background helped 383 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: you in your career well? As an economics major, it 384 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: was a more natural path that I might end up 385 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: interviewing with financial firms. And I remember meeting Chris in 386 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: the early days of working at JP Morgan when I 387 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: was an industry coverage banker and then in the M 388 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: and A Group myself. Um, So I had a really 389 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: great experience as part of the JP Morgan Analyst Training program, 390 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: and after my work in M and A, I started 391 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: to think about spending more time in an area where 392 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: I could have more exposure to the equity markets. I 393 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: grew up in a family where neither of my parents 394 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: were financial professionals, but they both really had a passion 395 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: for the stock market and we used to laugh at 396 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: they each had their own individual subscriptions to the Wall 397 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: Street Journal. So I had an interest in the equity markets, 398 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: and when I returned from business school, I decided to 399 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: make the transition into equity capital markets and just love 400 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: the opportunity to work with so many more clients on 401 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: a regular basis. M and A is a group where 402 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: you spend a lot of time deeply into analyzing one 403 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: particular company or situation, and in E c M we 404 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: have the benefit of being able to study and learn 405 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 1: about so many different companies and advise them along the 406 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: path of raising equity capital. And while I'd say my 407 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: major and economics was relevant as in terms of making 408 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: me an attractive candidate, at JP Morgan, we hire majors 409 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: of all types, everything from classics to electrical engineering, and 410 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: I think Chris and I we spend a lot of 411 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: time doing Princeton recruiting and spending a lot of time 412 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: on campus because that's our alma mater and we we 413 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: feel quite loyal to it. But I think we're both 414 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: quite good at identifying what are the right personality traits, 415 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: skill sets, finding those folks who have expressed interest in 416 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,679 Speaker 1: our field, and you combine that with JP Morgan's very 417 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: powerful training program, we can create a dynamic where young 418 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: people can be very successful and impactful in our field. 419 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: And it's really fun to be able to watch young 420 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: bankers then grow up and start managing their own deals 421 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: and telling us what to do. I'm Barry Hults. You're 422 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My special 423 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: guest today are the co head of Global Mergers and 424 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: Acquisitions at JP Morgan, as well as the head of 425 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: Equity capital Markets, Chris Van Tresca and Liz Myers. Let's 426 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: jump right into the process from the bank's perspective of 427 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: what it's like during either an acquisition or an I 428 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: p O. First question, how do these deals find their 429 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: way to you? Is it the basis of a longer relationship? 430 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: Is it always in flux. From the bank's perspective, how 431 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: do these things come along. We start relationships with our 432 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: industry coverage officers and those those relationships span many years 433 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: and it it's not a typical that I might meet 434 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: a company three years before it goes public, sometimes five 435 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: years um, and there are other situations where it might 436 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: be with just a year out. So we're really combining 437 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: that relationship within our industry coverage area with the product 438 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: expertise at the right time, and that allows us to 439 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: really help a client along the path of decision making 440 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: because they may in those early years still be considering 441 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: whether an I p O really does make sense ever, 442 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: or whether they might decide to expand through acquisition or 443 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: sell the company or stay status quo, private and and 444 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: happy for many years. How competitive is it when a 445 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: company decides we're gonna I p oh there are a 446 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: number of big banks on the street. In my mind's eye, 447 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: it's a very sharp elbowed competitive fight. What does that 448 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: look like from the bank's perspective, I'd say there's a 449 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: mix of situations. There are definitely the as we call them, 450 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: the big bakeoffs, where there might be a number of 451 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: competitors in the mix and companies and their financial backers 452 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: might be interviewing a series of banks in a single 453 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: day or week. And then there are other situations that 454 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: are more correlated with the setup I described of of 455 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: a multi year relationship with our firm where the client 456 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 1: never feels that they need to interview others because the 457 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: advice and trust that's been built over many years is 458 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: so strong. But it is a very competitive dynamic, and 459 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: I think what clients are looking for is a combination 460 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: of that trusting relationship but also very strong expertise and 461 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: track record in doing numerous complex deals or deals that 462 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: look very similar to what their situation might look like, 463 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: combined with a lot of deep industry expertise, support on 464 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: the research side, vast distribution network. Those are the criteria 465 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: that most issuers and financial sponsors will think about and 466 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: where we check those boxes quite well. Have been on 467 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: the M and A side similar sort of timeline, and 468 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: and it's very similar in terms of our relationships with 469 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: clients has measured over many, many years, some of these 470 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 1: clients multiple decades, and we've become part of their team 471 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: and their partners and really focus on being their trusted advisor. 472 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: Willing to give objective advice, think about their strategy, their business, 473 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: and give them our input, and then when there's some observation, ah, 474 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: we are deficient in this area, it becomes a very 475 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 1: natural dialogue to say, well, let's talk about acquisitions and 476 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 1: here's some names that may make sense. And by definition, 477 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: as we're having that dialogue, we're getting a little deeper 478 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: and ultimately will just be their natural first call advisor 479 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: on that deal. So that's really what we strive for. 480 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: It happens in the majority of our cases where the 481 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: client relationship just lends right into been an active project 482 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: and potentially an active deal, not much of a bakeoff 483 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: on the M and A. So I for obvious reasons, 484 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: everything has to be kept a little a little quieter 485 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: than perhaps an I P O. That's a fair point too. 486 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: I think confidentiality isn't key, and for clients and boards 487 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: to have a team that they trust, they know there's 488 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: continuity in that team, the same people that they've got 489 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: to respect and learned from over years. Is that same 490 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 1: team helping them on a deal. M and A lends 491 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: itself to that trusted advisor type relationship, which again is 492 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 1: built over the longer term. Every now and then, these 493 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: are fun phone calls to get you know, I'll get 494 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: I'll get the phone call or someone on the team 495 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: will get the phone call of I don't have a 496 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: relationship with JP Morgan, but I've heard such great things. 497 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,959 Speaker 1: We're considering to sell ourselves. Can we come meet you 498 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: or can you participate? We're gonna call a couple of folks, 499 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: or think about adding you to a team. And and 500 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: again we do have those opportunities. We do welcome them 501 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: and and do enjoy you know, pitching or meeting you know, 502 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: new clients, But the vast majority of what we do 503 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: is long term relationship. So walk me through the process. 504 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: A company has reached the conclusion we either want to 505 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: I p O or we wanna acquire somebody or be acquired. 506 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: What are the next steps? Like what actually takes place 507 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 1: within the bank when an existing client says, Hey, it's time, 508 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: we're going to ring the bell. Let's do this. How 509 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: does the ball get rolling? Probably the best example that 510 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: will touch on both the M and A world and 511 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: the equity capital markets world is when a company may 512 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: have a division or a subsidiary that they determine, usually 513 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: with our help, is non core or maybe more valuable 514 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: in someone else his hands, in their own hands. So 515 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: then as we're evaluating that, we'll say and think about, Okay, 516 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: what are the alternatives for this non core division? Can 517 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: we run a cell side? What would that look like? 518 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: Who the buyers, what would they potentially pay, what's the 519 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: tax implications of that? What are the proceeds we would receive? 520 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: So we'd be doing that analysis and forming a view 521 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: in our best judgment about those outcomes. Similarly, for that division, 522 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: is it a public market candidate? Could we I P 523 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: O it? Could we do a spinoff? Is it capable 524 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 1: to be a thriving equity story with new investors? What 525 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: does that look like? And ultimately we'll bring all that 526 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: analysis back and talk about it with the CEO and 527 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: the board and the and the rest of the management 528 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: team and create some potential outcomes and judgments for them 529 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: to then make a decision. We like both outcomes, we 530 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: like potentially running both in parallel and seeing which one 531 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: ultimately delivers the best for our shareholds. I e. A 532 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: sale of this division or a spin off or I 533 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: p O. Let's now create a timeline and a work plan. 534 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: Let's prepare all the relevant materials for that. Ultimately, there's 535 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: a point you have to start to make outbound calls 536 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: to buyers, and there's a point you start to do 537 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: SEC filings. To extent, it's an i p O and 538 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: you just map out a project plan and a work 539 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: plan and go along. You know that timeline. Usually in 540 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: that case, we're working very closely together. The M and 541 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: A team, the industry coverage team, and the equity capital 542 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: markets team are all working very closely together assessing those 543 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: alternatives to maximize the outcomes for our client. We're speaking 544 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: with Chris Francesca and Liz Myers of JP Morgan talking 545 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: about I p O s and mergers and acquisitions. Similar 546 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: question to you, Liz, A company says, all right, we 547 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: feel like we're mature enough, we have enough revenue, we're profitable. 548 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: We've decided we want to go to I p O. 549 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: What does it look like from the bank's perspective, What 550 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: what sort of steps follow that decision? Sure? Well, the 551 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: decision to I p O is one decision, and then 552 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: the next part is learning what the appropriate value equation 553 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: might be, and that can be taking place in multiple 554 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: parts in the process. When when Chris was mentioning if 555 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: a company was looking at both sale and i p O, 556 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: they might regularly be where they would be regularly with 557 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: us evaluating the relative valuation of those two camps. UM. 558 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: It's also part of the pitch process when we're meeting 559 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: with clients and expressing our own views around their equity 560 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: positioning and their valuation. So that's very much a part 561 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: of thinking about when to I p O and whether 562 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: it makes sense to do that versus a strategic sale. 563 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: So once we get going and thinking about how to 564 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: refine valuation thoughts, which may change along the way depending 565 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: on business the businesses own development or market conditions, the 566 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: value of peers that they may be medge marked against, 567 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: so it's not always a fixed point in the analysis. 568 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: But as we go forward thinking about that, we're also 569 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: defining and refining the equity positioning, which is what is 570 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: the encapsulated description of this company and the investment opportunity 571 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: for buyers, So thinking about how to size their market, 572 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: what type of forecasted revenues might make sense UM and 573 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: those are and those that part in particular our research 574 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: analysts can be helpful with and the company is not 575 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: required to commit to specific forecast targets. But the by 576 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: side is trying to learn what's reasonable in terms of 577 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: the type of revenues and earnings that a company might 578 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: produce over time UM and then they also have to analyze. 579 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: The by side has to analyze very much, and we 580 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: provide our thoughts and help with this. What are the 581 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: risks of this investment? What's the downside? What might cause 582 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: the company's stock price post IPO to trade down? So 583 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: they have to be very thoughtful about that, and and 584 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: we not only for the pursuit of being helpful to 585 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: the full analysis, we also have regulatory obligations to talk 586 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: about anything that could go wrong with an investment. So 587 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: when we look at M and A and we look 588 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: at I p O s, I p O s typically 589 00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: involved many different companies helping to bring the target company public. 590 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: And I have looked we've all seen books who's in 591 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: the prime position on the cover? How often are you 592 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 1: working with multiple peers on the street to help bring 593 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: a company public? And what's that process like to coordinate 594 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: this with with other bankers UH that are a participating 595 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: in the underwriting. So there are a number of parties 596 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: typically on an I p O and the lead bank 597 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: is called the lead left underwriter, and they're typically orchestrating 598 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: the process of of including other banks. Other banks are 599 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: included often for research capability, so having just another voice 600 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: in the market with a slightly different version of how 601 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: this company could be an attractive investment for the buy side. 602 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: So it does require great teamwork and as a result, 603 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: I know many of my peers quite well across the street. 604 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: And when you say lead left, obviously that's the top 605 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: left corner of the underwriting prospectives the book that everybody gets, 606 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: and then the distribution of other banks are all over 607 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: the cover. How much jockeing goes on with that, There 608 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: is some jockeying that goes on, and sometimes um, you'll 609 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: realize that the lead left is just the most highly 610 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: paid bank. And sometimes the cover might have a couple 611 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,959 Speaker 1: of banks that are are paid equally, and they might 612 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: be alphabetically listed, so there might be client might pick 613 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,719 Speaker 1: two banks that they feel equal comfort and capability in. 614 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: But ultimately, UM, there are companies also like the I 615 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: p O for the opportunity to keep relationships with other 616 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: banks that may have provided them with helpful financing over 617 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: the course of their history and may look for that 618 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: in the future as well. So there are a variety 619 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: of reasons that clients like to have more than one 620 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: bank on a deal. But it can be sometimes a 621 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: lot to orchestrate. But we're quite good at it because 622 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: it's it's been the dynamic for sometime. But it does 623 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: really require UH the ability to manage a process in 624 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: an almost militaristic way UM and have really good communication 625 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: across the whole syndicate group. Brought to you by Bank 626 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: of America Marylyn Inch, committed to bringing higher finance to 627 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: lower carbon named the most innovative investment bank for climate 628 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: change and sustainability by the Banker. That's the power of 629 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 1: Global Connections. Bank of America North America Member f D 630 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: I C. I'm Barry rid Helts. You're listening to Masters 631 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today is 632 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: Chris Ventresca and Liz Myers of JP Morgan. He is 633 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: the global co head of Mergers and Acquisitions. Liz is 634 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: the head of Global Equity Capital Markets. So let's take 635 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: a typical ten billion dollar deal, be it I P 636 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,479 Speaker 1: O or M and A or even a smaller deal. 637 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: What do these look like? What's the structure look like, 638 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 1: how many people are working on this from from the 639 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: bank's perspective, what's actually happening? When okay, everything is green, 640 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: let's go forward. What does that look like? Well, I 641 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 1: can start. There's a few different types of examples. I'll 642 00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: just pick probably the most complex, which is a sale 643 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 1: of a company where the buyer could be anywhere around 644 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 1: the globe. So typically what we'd have is a very 645 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: senior team talking with the CEO and the board. So 646 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 1: that could be two or three senior bankers, industry expertise, 647 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: M and a expertise just relationship, maybe in a particular 648 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,280 Speaker 1: country where that company is located, and that senior team, 649 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: which hopefully has built a decades plus long relationship and 650 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: knows that company extremely well. Well. Then add a couple 651 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: of layers below our title structures the team right out 652 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: of college. The undergraduates or analysts NBA equivalent types are 653 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: called associates. The vice presidents, executive directors, and managing directors 654 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: the most senior, and there's usually one person in each 655 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,879 Speaker 1: of those levels. The more junior part of the team 656 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,879 Speaker 1: is and saying, Okay, we have this idea that maybe 657 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: this company has decided that it's prospects are better to 658 00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: sell themselves than what they can do on their own. 659 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 1: What what is the value where the business plan. Let's 660 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: create a financial model that takes their business plan over 661 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: many years into the future, maybe runs it to a 662 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 1: discount of cash flow or looks at other comfortable So 663 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,919 Speaker 1: there's an analytical part of the job that a core 664 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: part of that team is working on fine tuning, working 665 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: with the clients, spending time with the client, asking diligence questions, 666 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 1: understanding all the assumptions, and ultimately that team, from from 667 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,439 Speaker 1: the most junior to the most senior, forms a point 668 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: of view is that your business plan or what you 669 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: think you're able to deliver is worth I'll make up 670 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: a number a hundred dollars a show, and maybe we 671 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: then assess where the stock price trading, and we assess 672 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,320 Speaker 1: is that good enough? Is that enough for our shareholders 673 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: or is there someone out there that could see us 674 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: in a different way that may pay us on your 675 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 1: fifty dollars a share and is that a good idea 676 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: for our shareholders to to do that. So there's that 677 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,240 Speaker 1: first part of the team that's kind of internally working 678 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: with the client and then there's the question that's often 679 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: in the boardroom with the most senior bankers advising, saying, okay, 680 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: what is the next step? Here? Are there people around 681 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,879 Speaker 1: the globe that may value your business more than you're 682 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: able to deliver on your own. And then our global 683 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: franchise plays right into that strength of understanding companies around 684 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: the globe, having senior bankers sitting in countries around the globe, 685 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,240 Speaker 1: and in a confidential way, extend that team to include 686 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: that right level of expertise. You know who in Asia, 687 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: who in Europe, who in Latin America, who in the 688 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: US or Canada may make sense as an owner of 689 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 1: this business. Let's talk about that with our client in 690 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: a very thoughtful way, because we know those folks and 691 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: we know how they view a business like us, and 692 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 1: we probably have history around their credibility or ability to pay. 693 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 1: And let's get the approval with the board's blessing to 694 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: say okay, let's run a cell side process. Um. So 695 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: that team really depends on the type of project I 696 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: just described. Something that's a very global team. There's kind 697 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: of a core team working closely with the client that 698 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: extends globally for the benefit of the client, so that 699 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 1: we may be able to introduce them to a buyer 700 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: that's in a part of the world they've never thought 701 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 1: about or never been to, but because we know a 702 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,279 Speaker 1: client there, we kind of have a sense of what's 703 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: interesting to them. We create that introduction and we're able 704 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: to have them visit and have a local banker in 705 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,879 Speaker 1: market maybe perform that introduction. And the team therefore could 706 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: range from three four, five to you know, depending on 707 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 1: the complexity, and that's really just as people or can 708 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: they can generally speaking, and if you if you end 709 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: up them branching off into different types of transactions where 710 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: maybe there's acquisition financing is needed and there's different ways 711 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: to do that financing, bid bank financing, bond financing, investment 712 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 1: grade bond, high grade, high yield bonds, a different set 713 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: of expertise is needed. Or maybe that's a cross border 714 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: deal where you need to pay in Euros and you're 715 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,760 Speaker 1: a dollar denominated company, so we'll have FX specialists become 716 00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: part of that deal team to explain are we able 717 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: hedge this, what instruments are in place for us to 718 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: de risk the transaction using potential you know, interest rate 719 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: or foreign exchange type edges. So again, one or two 720 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: or so people could get at it confidentially into that 721 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: team to work with the client because that's their specialty 722 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 1: and they can then you know, have the benefit of 723 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,479 Speaker 1: talking with the client about that. So these teams could 724 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: grow depending on the topic and depending on the level 725 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,280 Speaker 1: of complexity. And I'm assuming that each of these people 726 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: are working with a a cohort on the corporate side, 727 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: be it the CFO, the CEO, or whoever their team 728 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,280 Speaker 1: is is putting together. So there's probably, uh, my assumption 729 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: is there's a lot of bodies being thrown at a 730 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,840 Speaker 1: at a pretty big deal on both sides of the table, 731 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: the company side and the bank side, and correct and 732 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,720 Speaker 1: depending on the nature of the deal. There are situations 733 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,959 Speaker 1: where confidentiality is so important it would be very disruptive 734 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: to that client's business if there was a rumor, if 735 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: it aim known to the employees or customers as suppliers 736 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: that they were considering something before they actually had it 737 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,919 Speaker 1: in hand. So there are situations where they will work 738 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: with us exclusively and will commit and they'll commit even 739 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: as a senior management team, not to go too deep 740 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,359 Speaker 1: in their own organization and we'll do the same as 741 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: small tighter group as possible, and again that may just 742 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: be a handful of people that are working in that 743 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 1: case for the the logic again of let's keep this 744 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: as tight as possible, because the sense of there are 745 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: other situations where a company decided to sell themselves and 746 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: because they realize they need a lot of help of 747 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: their own internal people may announce publicly we're reviewing strategic alternatives, 748 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 1: including a sale, so they've publicly told the world and 749 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: their employee base that's happening. That's obviously a little easier, 750 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,240 Speaker 1: easier than it's a little less sensitive, and the teams 751 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,359 Speaker 1: could be larger in cases like that. You're nodding your head, yes, Liz, 752 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: is it. Do you see some similar sort of teams 753 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: working between companies and the bank? And I assume you 754 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: don't have the same need at least in the I 755 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,760 Speaker 1: p O space of secrecy. But what about the add 756 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: ons and the syndicates, things like that where it could 757 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: be disruptive if it leaks out early, Hey, we just 758 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: did an IPO when there's another of stop hitting the market, 759 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,360 Speaker 1: how do you deal with that? You're absolutely right, the 760 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: team for an I p O and the stage in 761 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: which the broader group would be included, would be much 762 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 1: earlier because you maybe filing a public perspectus and you're 763 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: you would want your salesforce to be aware that this 764 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: deal was coming in let's say a few months UM. 765 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,839 Speaker 1: So we think of it as in our group, there 766 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: are four to five people in the equity capital markets 767 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 1: group that would work on any transaction, and a similar 768 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 1: number of people in the industry coverage, relationship banking area. 769 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 1: We also have a research analyst who if it's an 770 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: I p O maybe has a has a team of 771 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: one or two people joining them. They would be involved 772 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 1: much earlier in the process and would help us UM 773 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 1: and we would help them get up to speed on 774 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 1: the on the story. They would spend a lot of 775 00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:01,240 Speaker 1: time interfacing with the issuer client and really developing their analysis, 776 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: forecast positioning of the company. They would be doing that independently. UM. 777 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: Then we have the salesforce who gets involved all over 778 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: the world. So that's a much more significant group. And 779 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: to your point, if you are doing a public equity 780 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: a public company's equity ray is a follow on for 781 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 1: let's say acquisition or debt reduction, etcetera. That's something we 782 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: would keep the information on we call it on our 783 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 1: side of the wall, So just the equity capital markets 784 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: professionals and the and the bankers and the research analysts 785 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: would be told only right before the transaction is ready 786 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: to be launched, so they have a couple of hours 787 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,880 Speaker 1: to prepare, but ultimately they're going in and we're leveraging 788 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 1: their historic knowledge of the company. Um, and so it's 789 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 1: kept very much on the inside of the wall in 790 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: those circumstances, and the salesforce would find out at the 791 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: exact same time as the rest of the public market. 792 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: So um, it's it's definitely a divided environment when you 793 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,239 Speaker 1: have a public company issuing equity. You mentioned in the 794 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,720 Speaker 1: lead time. I've gone to a number of road shows 795 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: pre I p O and some of them are pretty 796 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 1: straightforward affairs where it's relatively um, just nuts and bolts, 797 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 1: and others are very flashy, you know, whiz bang presentations. 798 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 1: What this is sort of an on the fly question. 799 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 1: What goes into creating that? Who drives those decisions? I mean, 800 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 1: obviously if it's a company like Tesla or somebody that's 801 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 1: flashy and and and very forward tech, might be a 802 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: different presentation than a sort of uh, just running the 803 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: mill plane fintech sort of company. But but how is 804 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 1: that process put together? How are these road shows assembled? 805 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: And how again another personnel question, how many bodies are 806 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 1: thrown at these things? Right? So I would say there's 807 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: there's a little bit of a culture by industry around 808 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:56,560 Speaker 1: how flashy as you would say, an I p O 809 00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: launch might look um and so that's that can vary 810 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 1: by sector. But ultimately what you're looking to do is 811 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 1: make sure you're getting significant visibility for the deal. And 812 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 1: I always say a good deal sells itself and you 813 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: don't need the flash to be able to get the eyeballs. 814 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,920 Speaker 1: Is if the financial profile of the company and their 815 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,879 Speaker 1: leadership in their sectors is notable, the eyes will find 816 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: them without too much effort on our part. Some clients 817 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: just have a culture um as an issue where client 818 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: have a culture of a more um flashy persona and 819 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,759 Speaker 1: they enjoy the splash of leveraging the I p O 820 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,919 Speaker 1: event to actually increase visibility from a cut from their 821 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,240 Speaker 1: customers perspective. UM. So it's kind of a free media 822 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: event and we'll see the New York Stock Exchange in 823 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:41,240 Speaker 1: the NASDAQ also contribute resources to help in that regard 824 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,799 Speaker 1: when when we're doing an I p O. UM, But 825 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: ultimately it's it's really about the quality of the story 826 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,319 Speaker 1: and does the valuation make sense, And that's what really 827 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,760 Speaker 1: drives how subscribe something is and what sort of interest 828 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: there is on the street. I did blow through so 829 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,680 Speaker 1: many questions I want to UM, I want to just 830 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 1: go back and take look at a few we missed 831 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:06,839 Speaker 1: before I get to the the standard ones. UM. You 832 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:12,239 Speaker 1: mentioned aftermarket performance and add on what what what determines 833 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:16,560 Speaker 1: whether a company does UH poorly or well in the 834 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:21,360 Speaker 1: aftermarket and the one that really stands out, UM, And 835 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to ask specific questions, but you know, 836 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,239 Speaker 1: the Facebook IPA was widely considered a flop. They had 837 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,440 Speaker 1: the technical problems, the stock traded down afterwards, and then 838 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: they had I think it was about nine months later 839 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 1: they had their mobile announcements, and there's been no looking back. 840 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,960 Speaker 1: The stock has gone straight up, straight up. When you 841 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,360 Speaker 1: look at an I p O like that, what is 842 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: it that makes any given I p O successful or 843 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 1: less successful? And and was that kind of a unique 844 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,760 Speaker 1: one off situation at Facebook? Because I think it looked 845 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,960 Speaker 1: like especially giving this nephew with NASDAC. It looked like 846 00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,320 Speaker 1: that had a couple of one off issues. I wouldn't 847 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,880 Speaker 1: take Facebook as the right case study for thinking about 848 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 1: what drives the right aftermarket because there were some technical issues. 849 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,200 Speaker 1: As you point out that we're pretty unique to that situation. 850 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 1: I think as a general matter, overall demand combined with 851 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:18,280 Speaker 1: allocation strategy is what drives the aftermarket, and they're intricately related. 852 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 1: What is allocation strategy? So allocation strategy means you have 853 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 1: a list of let's say a hundred and fifty accounts 854 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 1: that have come into an I p O and you 855 00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 1: have X amount of stock to distribute amongst all of them. 856 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: So that's a very as not an automated process. It's 857 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:37,439 Speaker 1: very manual and it's very um conversation based where we're 858 00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 1: really putting together a lot of information. It might include 859 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,840 Speaker 1: feedback from the issuer client about how they felt that 860 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:48,359 Speaker 1: client that investor understood their business um. We also will 861 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,400 Speaker 1: factor in what price limits an investor might have placed 862 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 1: around their order. That may, depending on where the deal 863 00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: is priced, may exclude them from even being eligible for 864 00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: an allocation if it's if the the arket clearing prices 865 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,359 Speaker 1: above where their limit was for example. But ultimately, what 866 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,120 Speaker 1: we're really trying to do is have a deal that's 867 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,680 Speaker 1: an average sized deal. You were shooting for a multiple 868 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 1: time subscription, so you have excess demand versus the amount 869 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,600 Speaker 1: of shares and their scarcity value, and that demand tension 870 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,400 Speaker 1: helps with the aftermarket and the strategy of allocation is 871 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,319 Speaker 1: to allocate less than what an investor would ideally like, 872 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,760 Speaker 1: but enough to be meaningful so that the resulting dynamic 873 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 1: is they go and round out their allocation in the aftermarket. 874 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: So they're looking to fulfill the demand they placed with 875 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 1: us in the aftermarket as well as through a partial 876 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,279 Speaker 1: partial placement by US shares directly from the I p O. 877 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:44,319 Speaker 1: So this process sounds subjective and very much more art 878 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 1: than science. Is that is that a fair way to 879 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 1: describe that. Let's say it's a fair way, and we 880 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:52,680 Speaker 1: do it with great thought and and conservative approach and 881 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:56,280 Speaker 1: an inclusive approach as we think about what our issuers 882 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,400 Speaker 1: interests and preferences are. But ultimately, i'd say issuer and 883 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,319 Speaker 1: underwriter's preferences are always aligned to have a positive aftermarket 884 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,480 Speaker 1: so that this event of of bringing buyer and seller 885 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:10,239 Speaker 1: together results in a long term partnership. So before I 886 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,560 Speaker 1: jump back to the m and A side of it, 887 00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:16,799 Speaker 1: there's always seems to be a battle between do we 888 00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,520 Speaker 1: price it high and maximize dollars to the company, or 889 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:25,040 Speaker 1: do we price it a little lower so that there's 890 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,440 Speaker 1: more participation and over the long haul it seems to 891 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,880 Speaker 1: work out better. How is that dynamic tension resolved? Again, 892 00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,319 Speaker 1: it sounds like it's more art than science. So that 893 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:40,080 Speaker 1: can either be an easy conversation or a multiple hour 894 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:44,200 Speaker 1: conversation depending on the circumstances and the complexion of the 895 00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 1: order book. So sometimes it's very clear from just showing 896 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,320 Speaker 1: the order book to an issuer client that the market 897 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,360 Speaker 1: clearing price is top of the range or middle of 898 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,920 Speaker 1: the range, for example. UM some issuers will ask what 899 00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:58,880 Speaker 1: would it look like if I priced the deal a 900 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 1: dollar higher, And so we have to try to interpolate 901 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,600 Speaker 1: from the data we have what that might mean in 902 00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,839 Speaker 1: terms of aftermarket performance. So we'll give some guidance which 903 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,799 Speaker 1: is just our best estimates for what that change might mean. 904 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,600 Speaker 1: But we can for sure show them what accounts would 905 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,319 Speaker 1: drop out of the book, and so what would their 906 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:21,120 Speaker 1: subscription level reduced to if they push price higher? For example, um. 907 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 1: So sometimes there is some nuances and maybe a dollar 908 00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:28,840 Speaker 1: a dollar difference is hard to ascertain a meaningful difference 909 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,719 Speaker 1: in the aftermarket, and sometimes it's extremely clear where you 910 00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:33,520 Speaker 1: may have an order book where if you went one 911 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,759 Speaker 1: dollar higher you would lose half the order. So you 912 00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,160 Speaker 1: have a lot of visibility when people say, oh, you 913 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,360 Speaker 1: know they price that too low. They left all this 914 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,879 Speaker 1: money on the table. You really don't know what's out 915 00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,799 Speaker 1: there aftermarket, but you could see what the immediate demand is. 916 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,320 Speaker 1: So you're really working within a framework that's at least 917 00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,160 Speaker 1: on the I p O pricing that seems to be 918 00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,520 Speaker 1: a little more science than art. Beyond that is I 919 00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,120 Speaker 1: guess where the art comes in. Is that a their 920 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,279 Speaker 1: way to describe exactly And we're never solving for just 921 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,040 Speaker 1: how to allocate the stock for that moment. We're solving 922 00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,440 Speaker 1: for making sure that the deal trades well so that 923 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,239 Speaker 1: the company's reputation is enhanced by this event rather than 924 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,360 Speaker 1: hurt by it. So it's it's not just about maxing 925 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,440 Speaker 1: what you generate from the underwriting. There's always a balance, right, 926 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:21,839 Speaker 1: We're we're looking to optimize price. So the issue where 927 00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,120 Speaker 1: gets the absolute most proceeds that we can deliver while 928 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,919 Speaker 1: still having the stock trade well in the aftermarket. That's 929 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,600 Speaker 1: the magic number, and there's going to be some trade 930 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,080 Speaker 1: offs between the two of those. You could take something 931 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:37,760 Speaker 1: perhaps generate a little more underwriting income to the company, 932 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,520 Speaker 1: but at at a cost of how well it trades 933 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,680 Speaker 1: after right, we might do We could have a situation 934 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,359 Speaker 1: where we've created more proceeds by moving price let's say 935 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,080 Speaker 1: a dollar a share, but then the aftermarket doesn't trade 936 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:49,640 Speaker 1: as well. And if you think about in an I 937 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:53,000 Speaker 1: p O typically depends on the circumstance of the region. 938 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:54,680 Speaker 1: Let's say in the U S. A typical I p 939 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,920 Speaker 1: O might be of the company. You don't want to 940 00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:02,879 Speaker 1: lose value for that other percent by focusing too much 941 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:08,200 Speaker 1: on proceeds realized on moment one. So there's some art 942 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,439 Speaker 1: and science to pricing I p O. I always look 943 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:16,120 Speaker 1: at at acquisitions or sales of companies as more of 944 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:19,160 Speaker 1: a poker game where you're playing against a number of 945 00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:23,839 Speaker 1: other players, potential other bidders. What's it like when you're 946 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,279 Speaker 1: in the midst of trying to acquire a company and 947 00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:31,400 Speaker 1: another buyer comes along and throws a bid in uh 948 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,279 Speaker 1: and sort of toss as a monkey wrench at what 949 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,319 Speaker 1: you have going. Let me let me first link back 950 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,160 Speaker 1: to what List said, because there's a very interesting analogy 951 00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,879 Speaker 1: in M and A. When you're doing a deal as 952 00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,280 Speaker 1: a target for all stock, or maybe it's half stock 953 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,240 Speaker 1: and half cash with an acquirer, so a more merger 954 00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:52,239 Speaker 1: like deal. This same tension happens when I'm on the 955 00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:55,719 Speaker 1: cell side. If I get a greater and greater premium, 956 00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,680 Speaker 1: if I extract from that buyer a higher and higher price, 957 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,960 Speaker 1: the odds are Aventually there's a price where that buyer's 958 00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,680 Speaker 1: shareholders are not going to like the deal, and that 959 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:06,960 Speaker 1: buyers stock is going to go down. So the equity 960 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,279 Speaker 1: they're giving me in the M and A deal may 961 00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 1: go down in value if I extract too much out 962 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:14,400 Speaker 1: of them. So you're always trying to find very similar 963 00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,759 Speaker 1: in pricing of an I p O this equilibrium where 964 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,840 Speaker 1: I'm getting enough upfront value while being cognizant of the 965 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,440 Speaker 1: fact that I may be playing a longer term value 966 00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,640 Speaker 1: game and therefore the importance of how that equity trades 967 00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,520 Speaker 1: after announcement is key. So we do have that same 968 00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,760 Speaker 1: struggle and debate very often about upfront premium verse wouldn't 969 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:37,920 Speaker 1: it be great if we took this equity and the 970 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,880 Speaker 1: buyer stock went up so that the premium grows post announcement. 971 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,239 Speaker 1: And I do think there's some similar dynamics happening on 972 00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,399 Speaker 1: the M and a deal and your question of when 973 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,560 Speaker 1: another bidder shows up. What we try extremely hard to 974 00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:54,239 Speaker 1: do upfront. If we're on the acquisition side with the 975 00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,200 Speaker 1: client and we made the first move, we've publicly announced 976 00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,000 Speaker 1: an acquisition at a price, it's a price we feel 977 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,080 Speaker 1: good about. We would have gotten bored approval, the other 978 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,279 Speaker 1: side would have agreed to it potentially, and someone comes 979 00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,040 Speaker 1: along and offers a higher price, we would have done 980 00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,759 Speaker 1: the work up front to understand how much value were 981 00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,239 Speaker 1: we creating in this deal, how much cushion did we have. 982 00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:18,880 Speaker 1: Think about that in advance, so you don't get deal 983 00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,120 Speaker 1: fever and you try to chase something that may not 984 00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,600 Speaker 1: be economic. Try to create some ground rules upfront about 985 00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:28,279 Speaker 1: at this price or above it starts to not make 986 00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,160 Speaker 1: sense for our shareholders and we should walk away. And 987 00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,279 Speaker 1: if someone wants to pay above that, well, good for them, 988 00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,360 Speaker 1: but that's not in the best inswer for our shares 989 00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,440 Speaker 1: as will let them win. It's like any auction, you 990 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,000 Speaker 1: have to know in advance what your limited raising you 991 00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,839 Speaker 1: paddle once across is that and what's also happened very 992 00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:45,320 Speaker 1: interesting in them and a in the last year or 993 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,760 Speaker 1: two especially, is certainty of getting to closing has become 994 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,520 Speaker 1: extremely important, almost as much, if not more than just 995 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,319 Speaker 1: that upfront purchase price. For example, if I'm on the 996 00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,920 Speaker 1: cell side of a deal and I agreed to a price, 997 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:01,480 Speaker 1: and I think it can get to the finish line, 998 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:05,040 Speaker 1: meaning through regulatory approval or sharehold approval, and someone else 999 00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,760 Speaker 1: shows up at a higher price, but let's say, for example, 1000 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:12,520 Speaker 1: they have regulatory risk. Am I willing to forego the 1001 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,439 Speaker 1: lower price that's very certain and take the higher price, 1002 00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:17,400 Speaker 1: But it has a lot of risk. It's very disruptive, 1003 00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,279 Speaker 1: as you know, to announce a deal in twelve or 1004 00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,080 Speaker 1: eighteen months later find out it can't close regulatory reasons. 1005 00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:23,959 Speaker 1: And we've seen a few of these exactly a couple 1006 00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,520 Speaker 1: of years, and it's been a huge surprise. So part 1007 00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,279 Speaker 1: of the dialogue we have with our clients, both on 1008 00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,879 Speaker 1: the Cell side and evaluating two bidders that we may 1009 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,960 Speaker 1: be presented with is the certainty of those bids and 1010 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,640 Speaker 1: when we're on the buy side, understanding what we're competing against. 1011 00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:40,440 Speaker 1: There was an interesting deal a year ago that we 1012 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,200 Speaker 1: had worked on for Dollar Try. We made an acquisition 1013 00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:46,239 Speaker 1: of Family Dollar, and Dollar General came out and put 1014 00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,400 Speaker 1: out a higher bid, but it was deemed that on 1015 00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,759 Speaker 1: our side, the Dollar Try side, that our bid was 1016 00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,400 Speaker 1: more certain we had less regulatory risks, so we stuck 1017 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,480 Speaker 1: with our quote, lower bid, and ultimately the board of 1018 00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:01,440 Speaker 1: the target saw the same thing we saw and ultimately 1019 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,799 Speaker 1: signed up our deal and kept with it, and that 1020 00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:07,319 Speaker 1: deal did close eventually successfully. So boards have to weigh 1021 00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:11,399 Speaker 1: this tension between certainty of getting to the closing verse 1022 00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,880 Speaker 1: up from purchase price, and again we deal with that 1023 00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:18,040 Speaker 1: on both sides. You reference regulatory risk. Everybody on the 1024 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,840 Speaker 1: street has been complaining about changes from Dodd Frank and 1025 00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,560 Speaker 1: how regulations have impacted. It sounds like, at least in 1026 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,120 Speaker 1: the examples you're giving, this is really just another factor 1027 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,800 Speaker 1: in the giant calculus calculus of will the deal get done? 1028 00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,280 Speaker 1: What does this mean for this bid and this bidder 1029 00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:40,960 Speaker 1: versus someone else? What's been the impact of these regulatory 1030 00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:44,160 Speaker 1: changes post crisis on I, P, O, S and M 1031 00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,480 Speaker 1: and A S. I know that we had some loosening 1032 00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,760 Speaker 1: in the Jobs Act, at least in terms of crowdsourcing 1033 00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:55,840 Speaker 1: and other things. How have the regulatory changes impacted um A, 1034 00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,479 Speaker 1: the odds of getting a deal done or an IPO done, 1035 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,440 Speaker 1: and be the desire of people to either go public 1036 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,520 Speaker 1: or stay private quickly on the on the M and 1037 00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,719 Speaker 1: A side, Just to continue the theme of the analysis 1038 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:14,439 Speaker 1: that goes into that is as deep and including many 1039 00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:19,080 Speaker 1: outside experts and lawyers up front. Before you make that announcement, 1040 00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,439 Speaker 1: you have done your homework and assessed as best you can, 1041 00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,800 Speaker 1: even though it's imperfect the odds of success. So certainly 1042 00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,600 Speaker 1: compared to five plus years ago, companies when they announced 1043 00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,200 Speaker 1: a deal today have done much more work with outside experts, 1044 00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:37,360 Speaker 1: evaluating the regulatory risk, what things may need to be divested, 1045 00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,600 Speaker 1: if they had to agree to get a deal done, 1046 00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:42,680 Speaker 1: what's the impact. So then we're announcing the deals, they're 1047 00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,640 Speaker 1: certainly smarter, but there are still, as we've seen a 1048 00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,000 Speaker 1: great deal of uncertainty and risk that goes into it. 1049 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,000 Speaker 1: And there's then that debate is it worth it is 1050 00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,520 Speaker 1: if I'm the seller, is the price high enough for 1051 00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:57,839 Speaker 1: my shareholders that if this unwinds twelve months from now 1052 00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,239 Speaker 1: or eighteen months, and the ripple effect, which is only 1053 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,040 Speaker 1: negative of having a failed deal. You know, how can 1054 00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,360 Speaker 1: I manage that and how can I plan for that 1055 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,680 Speaker 1: contingency with my employee base to keep them retained and 1056 00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,399 Speaker 1: keep them around in case that event happens. All that 1057 00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,680 Speaker 1: is much more thoughtfully considered in today's market than certainly 1058 00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:19,280 Speaker 1: five That's quite fascinating. What are you see on the 1059 00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:21,720 Speaker 1: I p O side? So very you mentioned the Jobs Act, 1060 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,160 Speaker 1: which I think has been a very helpful and productive 1061 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:28,080 Speaker 1: new regulation that has allowed companies who are considering a 1062 00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,520 Speaker 1: U S I p O to be able to test 1063 00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,360 Speaker 1: the waters a little bit and get some feedback from investors, 1064 00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,440 Speaker 1: which historically had been prevented until a red herring was filed. 1065 00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,520 Speaker 1: And by that point, you're putting a price range on 1066 00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,360 Speaker 1: the cover, and you right, you're having to make a 1067 00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:46,400 Speaker 1: lot of decisions without perfect information. And while investors are 1068 00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:49,520 Speaker 1: never going to provide you perfect information, the environment is 1069 00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:52,720 Speaker 1: is definitely more constructive from that perspective, and that is 1070 00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,680 Speaker 1: more reflective of actually the global capital markets, is that 1071 00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,680 Speaker 1: overseas in Europe and Asia, there's a much more accommodative 1072 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,120 Speaker 1: There historically have been a much more accommodative environment as 1073 00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:07,800 Speaker 1: it related to pre marketing deals, educating investors, and soliciting 1074 00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,040 Speaker 1: feedback around what price the market might bear. So I 1075 00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,640 Speaker 1: know I only have you for a finite amount of time. 1076 00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,880 Speaker 1: You guys both have busy jobs. So let me jump 1077 00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:22,200 Speaker 1: into some of my favorite standard podcast questions. I asked 1078 00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:26,000 Speaker 1: all my guests, UM, you we talked about your your 1079 00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,880 Speaker 1: back educational backgrounds and how they led to the financial 1080 00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,480 Speaker 1: services industry. Let's let's talk about mentors who have you 1081 00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,320 Speaker 1: each worked with in the past that have mentored your 1082 00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:40,760 Speaker 1: career along well. I've I've always had wonderful bosses at 1083 00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:44,439 Speaker 1: JP Morgan over the years, and I think there isn't 1084 00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:47,200 Speaker 1: one of us who isn't very inspired by our leader, 1085 00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:49,560 Speaker 1: Jamie Diamond, both as someone to work with and to 1086 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,760 Speaker 1: learn from. That our late vice chairman Jimmy Lee was 1087 00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:56,400 Speaker 1: one of my big mentors and sponsors more recently in 1088 00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:00,600 Speaker 1: my career, and I've also been inspired, i would say mentor, 1089 00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:04,360 Speaker 1: but inspired by other business leaders like a Warren Buffett 1090 00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:07,600 Speaker 1: for example. Um. And then you know, going back early 1091 00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:09,880 Speaker 1: to growing up, I think my parents mentored me about 1092 00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:14,480 Speaker 1: the value of hard work and the desired who try 1093 00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,440 Speaker 1: to get your own seat at the table. That sounds 1094 00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:19,680 Speaker 1: pretty reasonable, Chris, how about you who are mentors in 1095 00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:23,280 Speaker 1: your career? Very similar echo Lizzes comments. But for me, 1096 00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:26,920 Speaker 1: because I went through a career transition and was effectively 1097 00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,600 Speaker 1: a mobility candidate from a computer programming job into a 1098 00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,960 Speaker 1: banking job getting my MBA at night while working, I 1099 00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,640 Speaker 1: needed to have and luckily did have extremely understanding managers 1100 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,480 Speaker 1: at the time that were willing to invest in me 1101 00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,040 Speaker 1: allow me to do that transition, you know, go from 1102 00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,280 Speaker 1: point A to point B to point C. So again, 1103 00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,520 Speaker 1: early on in my career have always had terrific managers 1104 00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,680 Speaker 1: who kind of were thinking about the long term career path. 1105 00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:55,760 Speaker 1: And at JP Morgan again, I've been surrounded by those 1106 00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,640 Speaker 1: folks really throughout my give names who who who moved 1107 00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:01,800 Speaker 1: your career forward. So i'd that first phase when I 1108 01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:05,920 Speaker 1: when I moved from uh, the computer programming job into 1109 01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:08,840 Speaker 1: an intermediate step that was directly with the bankers. Donald 1110 01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:12,360 Speaker 1: Larson was a was a terrific manager of mine, and 1111 01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:15,840 Speaker 1: she also was getting her m b A at n 1112 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,640 Speaker 1: y U and understood that process and the rigor of 1113 01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,480 Speaker 1: balancing your day job while getting her MBA at night. 1114 01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:24,920 Speaker 1: So when we had that discussion and raised it, she 1115 01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:26,920 Speaker 1: was a big fan and supporter of yes, you can 1116 01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,280 Speaker 1: do it. Yes, I'll help you do it. I'll give you, 1117 01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,000 Speaker 1: you know, all the support you need. Um. Then, when 1118 01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,840 Speaker 1: I transitioned from you know, that part of my career 1119 01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,440 Speaker 1: into the M and A group, there were two folks 1120 01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,520 Speaker 1: that I always think about when I was again a 1121 01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:44,920 Speaker 1: young associate now finally transferred, you know, as an investment 1122 01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:47,160 Speaker 1: banker sitting in the M and A group, The one 1123 01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,240 Speaker 1: that taught me the most about M and A skills 1124 01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:52,080 Speaker 1: and what does it mean to be a world class 1125 01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,440 Speaker 1: M and A banker and valus was Jimmy Elliott, who's 1126 01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:56,720 Speaker 1: getting a long time ahead of our head of our 1127 01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:02,240 Speaker 1: group now retired, but his rigor around the analytics and 1128 01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,600 Speaker 1: the skill set and almost the science part of the job, 1129 01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:08,480 Speaker 1: as well as being able to express a point of 1130 01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,600 Speaker 1: view in a clear kind of bold way, you know, 1131 01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:13,960 Speaker 1: those things are always kind of resonate with me. And 1132 01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:16,960 Speaker 1: then the first client banker I ever worked with, Henry 1133 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:20,560 Speaker 1: harnisch Feger, who's still at JP Morgan today covering our 1134 01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,680 Speaker 1: our metals business and clients globally, taught me everything, how 1135 01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,360 Speaker 1: to be a great client executive and a salesperson, how 1136 01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:31,120 Speaker 1: to how to deliver and create great advice to a 1137 01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,440 Speaker 1: CEO or a board, how to build rapport, how to 1138 01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:36,640 Speaker 1: create that chemistry naturally, and just watching him from a 1139 01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:40,680 Speaker 1: young age, just very naturally build trust with a client 1140 01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,680 Speaker 1: you know, and how to establish world class relationships. You know, 1141 01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:45,720 Speaker 1: still sticks with me today and Chris and I still 1142 01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:48,760 Speaker 1: have the same boss, Carlos Hernandez, who runs our global 1143 01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:52,360 Speaker 1: investment banking franchise, who's had a background both in markets 1144 01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:55,160 Speaker 1: and on the advisory side, and it is great fun 1145 01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,000 Speaker 1: to work with and has mentored many of us for years, 1146 01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:00,160 Speaker 1: and he has a style as imagined. Liz and I 1147 01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:04,120 Speaker 1: are part of Carlos's management team and really has brought 1148 01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,160 Speaker 1: you know, the hallmarker JP morgan is and culture and 1149 01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:10,320 Speaker 1: conduct and teamwork and partnership and the ability of all 1150 01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:13,360 Speaker 1: of us to sit around a table, share ideas, best practices, 1151 01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:16,640 Speaker 1: work together as one cohesive team under his leadership has 1152 01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,000 Speaker 1: been really phenomenal last couple of years. But Liz, you 1153 01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:23,080 Speaker 1: mentioned one Buffett any other investors stand out as as 1154 01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:27,040 Speaker 1: having influenced the way you think about underwriting. I P. O. 1155 01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,920 Speaker 1: S and and other things. Well, I think of my 1156 01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,800 Speaker 1: mentorship by investors is is really fluid and organic. I'm 1157 01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:38,000 Speaker 1: meeting with different investors across the globe every week, and 1158 01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:41,960 Speaker 1: it's interesting to see their perspectives as they manage through 1159 01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:45,080 Speaker 1: sometimes turbulent times. So I wouldn't I wouldn't want to 1160 01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,040 Speaker 1: favor any one or the other, but it's it's it's 1161 01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,320 Speaker 1: so critically important for me to be able to be 1162 01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,440 Speaker 1: in close touch with that community and seeing really the 1163 01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:57,080 Speaker 1: struggles and the successes that they have, learning why they 1164 01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,160 Speaker 1: have more cash in reserve at a particular time. I'm 1165 01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:03,320 Speaker 1: and thinking about what deals really made money for them, 1166 01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:07,400 Speaker 1: what deals did they find very challenged um and just 1167 01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:11,000 Speaker 1: finding better ways to deliver good quality product to that community. 1168 01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,000 Speaker 1: And let's talk about books. This seems to be the 1169 01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:18,880 Speaker 1: section that segment that everybody is so enthralled with. What 1170 01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:22,280 Speaker 1: are some of your favorite books, be they fiction or nonfiction, 1171 01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:28,480 Speaker 1: investing related or or rodorant general interest. Well, I don't 1172 01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:29,920 Speaker 1: know if these are my favorite books, but I can 1173 01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,800 Speaker 1: tell you what I'm reading right now. So I've been 1174 01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,880 Speaker 1: interested lately in just thinking about a little bit in 1175 01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,880 Speaker 1: the neuroscience topic. So have two books going that sort 1176 01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:41,360 Speaker 1: of loosely relate to that. One is actually written by 1177 01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:45,880 Speaker 1: a neuroscientist, UM Francis Jensen, about the teenage brain. So 1178 01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:47,920 Speaker 1: I have kids that are growing up and thinking about 1179 01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:51,640 Speaker 1: how do their thought processes evolve as they mature as 1180 01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:53,720 Speaker 1: human beings, And there's a lot more to learn about 1181 01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:56,480 Speaker 1: that today, um than there used to be. Is that? 1182 01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:59,160 Speaker 1: Is that what that's called teenage the teenage brain, the 1183 01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,960 Speaker 1: teenage brain, and and there's a long subtitle to it, 1184 01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,960 Speaker 1: but it's been interesting to read. And then am I 1185 01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:07,560 Speaker 1: correct in saying My wife is a teacher and says 1186 01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,920 Speaker 1: they're not done cooking yet, Not not at eighteen, not 1187 01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,600 Speaker 1: at college. I think it's something like twenty three or 1188 01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:16,680 Speaker 1: twenty five. The brain is still evolving, It's for sure 1189 01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,680 Speaker 1: at eighteen it's not done. So I would say that 1190 01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:24,080 Speaker 1: it's it sounds like they're even some data that would 1191 01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,080 Speaker 1: indicate even up to the age of thirty there will 1192 01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:29,240 Speaker 1: be still changes that are evolving. And also that the 1193 01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,880 Speaker 1: brain changes with life experiences, which I hadn't reflected on 1194 01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:35,000 Speaker 1: a lot previously. And then I'm just reading a book 1195 01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,120 Speaker 1: called The Art of Critical Thinking, UM, which is really 1196 01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:41,840 Speaker 1: about refining your decision making and thinking about how not 1197 01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:45,000 Speaker 1: to fall into the traps of human nature. Who's the 1198 01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:49,680 Speaker 1: author of that, Ralph de Belly, Ralph de Belly. And 1199 01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,520 Speaker 1: then for fun, I'm reading a crime novel by Peter 1200 01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:55,439 Speaker 1: Spiegelman called Doctor Knox that I'm just starting to get into. 1201 01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,720 Speaker 1: How about you, Chris Giving some books, say some some 1202 01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:02,520 Speaker 1: of my favorite readings were from Malcolm Cladwell. His approach 1203 01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,880 Speaker 1: to the analytical party appeals maybe my engineering background or 1204 01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,120 Speaker 1: analytical thinking, but the way he looks at a situation 1205 01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:12,840 Speaker 1: and then analyze it either an Outliers or David Goliath 1206 01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,400 Speaker 1: or Blink of these other books. I've always enjoyed that 1207 01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:19,000 Speaker 1: style of thinking of a topic and then attacking it 1208 01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,200 Speaker 1: from a couple of different areas, different stories. So again, 1209 01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:24,280 Speaker 1: he's one I generally keep an eye out when something 1210 01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:26,400 Speaker 1: new comes out from him or some of his talks 1211 01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,000 Speaker 1: that he's done listen to. I I it's okay. I say. 1212 01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:32,000 Speaker 1: My wife's a young adult teen author, so I read 1213 01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:35,560 Speaker 1: a lot of her work, and she's got her second 1214 01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,160 Speaker 1: novels coming out in about two weeks. So I enjoyed 1215 01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,160 Speaker 1: reading her work as is progressing, and then once it's 1216 01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:43,200 Speaker 1: finally ready to go and publish. So she's got a book. 1217 01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:46,920 Speaker 1: Um uh Sky Pony Press the publisher. It's Black Flowers, 1218 01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:48,960 Speaker 1: White Lies that's coming out now, and that's that's been 1219 01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:51,720 Speaker 1: a real fun part, uh to be part of that 1220 01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,160 Speaker 1: support network with her and be her biggest fan. And 1221 01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:56,840 Speaker 1: we have two teenagers, so they're her toughest critics. So 1222 01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,360 Speaker 1: once it passed my son and my daughter's test, she 1223 01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:01,440 Speaker 1: knows it's it's ready for prime time out there. So 1224 01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:03,800 Speaker 1: again that's where I spend most of my time, you know, 1225 01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:06,240 Speaker 1: reading Who knew Chris was a book editor on the weekends. 1226 01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,320 Speaker 1: You go. Um, So let's talk a little bit about 1227 01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,400 Speaker 1: what's changed since you joined the industry. What what have 1228 01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:16,640 Speaker 1: you seen over the arc of twenty plus years that's 1229 01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:20,960 Speaker 1: significantly different today than than when you began your careers. 1230 01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:23,880 Speaker 1: I'd say one thing on our front and the equity 1231 01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:26,960 Speaker 1: capital markets is that I p O and other equity 1232 01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:30,400 Speaker 1: road shows are substantially shorter, So we get a lot 1233 01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:33,600 Speaker 1: more deals done for clients in any given year. Shorter 1234 01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:36,680 Speaker 1: in terms of start to finish your shorter in terms 1235 01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:40,080 Speaker 1: of when the announcement is made to the point where 1236 01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:43,120 Speaker 1: you actually complete the road show. Is it the actual 1237 01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,480 Speaker 1: event itself or the whole process. We're both. I was 1238 01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:49,720 Speaker 1: thinking specifically about how many days a management team needs 1239 01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:52,680 Speaker 1: to spend on the road, and these are extremely grueling 1240 01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:58,080 Speaker 1: processes where they are out pitching investors repeatedly, multiple times 1241 01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:00,240 Speaker 1: a day, with little breaks, and we try to make 1242 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:02,800 Speaker 1: sure they at least get to eat um. So if 1243 01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:04,840 Speaker 1: you think about an I p O. When I first 1244 01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:07,560 Speaker 1: started in equity capital markets in the late nineties, we 1245 01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:10,920 Speaker 1: were regularly on the road for three weeks, two to 1246 01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:12,919 Speaker 1: three weeks, three weeks if it was a global deal, 1247 01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:15,880 Speaker 1: and now many of our deals that are let's say 1248 01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:19,400 Speaker 1: US centric in their approach, would be as little as 1249 01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:22,040 Speaker 1: seven days. How much of that is due to technology 1250 01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:24,400 Speaker 1: that you don't physically have to be in the room, right, 1251 01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:26,760 Speaker 1: So a lot, And I would say technology is probably 1252 01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,000 Speaker 1: the other theme that's changed, And the related theme that's 1253 01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,640 Speaker 1: changed our business is our ability to reach more investors 1254 01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:36,480 Speaker 1: is just substantially greater, and I think it's just better 1255 01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:39,800 Speaker 1: and fairer that more people have access to information, and 1256 01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:43,720 Speaker 1: that's definitely helped ease the burden on management teams as well, 1257 01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:45,840 Speaker 1: because we don't want to take them away from their 1258 01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,320 Speaker 1: day jobs for too long because that's bad for the company. 1259 01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,680 Speaker 1: So UM, and it's also having shorter road shows. You 1260 01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:54,480 Speaker 1: think of a traditional follow on. Back in the late nineties, 1261 01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:56,800 Speaker 1: we would have marketed for five days, let's say, so 1262 01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:59,640 Speaker 1: public company raising additional equity. So there they were out 1263 01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:02,600 Speaker 1: there for five days of market exposure, and we could 1264 01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:04,640 Speaker 1: never predict exactly what the market was going to do 1265 01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:06,840 Speaker 1: or what their stock price was going to do while 1266 01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,040 Speaker 1: we were out there. So now UM, in some certain 1267 01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:13,160 Speaker 1: certain circumstances, we can price a deal overnight, so announce 1268 01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:15,680 Speaker 1: that the close of the US market and price it 1269 01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:19,160 Speaker 1: sometimes that night or certainly by the time the market 1270 01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:21,840 Speaker 1: opens the next morning. That's substantially different than the old 1271 01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:25,639 Speaker 1: substantially different, and there's some in between obviously today as well, Chris, 1272 01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:27,920 Speaker 1: do you see is M and A the same thing, 1273 01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:31,519 Speaker 1: or is the process you're selling a company or buying 1274 01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:33,639 Speaker 1: a company is the same as it was twenty years ago. 1275 01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,120 Speaker 1: There's a certain element that is the same when you're 1276 01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:38,639 Speaker 1: when you're selling a company, it takes time to prepare, 1277 01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:42,120 Speaker 1: to think about the materials, contacting buyers, getting them the 1278 01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:45,800 Speaker 1: sign confidentiality agreements. That that part of the process looks 1279 01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:48,120 Speaker 1: and feels very similar in ten or twenty years ago. 1280 01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:51,439 Speaker 1: What's very different is just the speed of information flow, 1281 01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:54,840 Speaker 1: the ability to work remotely. Very often we have to 1282 01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:58,360 Speaker 1: develop these valuation models, or suddenly someone sends in a 1283 01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:00,800 Speaker 1: letter with a price in it, and in the older days, 1284 01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:02,920 Speaker 1: it may take a week or so to analyze that 1285 01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:05,439 Speaker 1: and value the company and think about who the other 1286 01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:10,280 Speaker 1: person is. And now effectively seven remotely you can log 1287 01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:14,120 Speaker 1: in get that information. Valuation could be updated very quickly. 1288 01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:17,240 Speaker 1: It's much more real time. Where if we get, for example, 1289 01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:20,040 Speaker 1: a hostile offer bid comes in, so an unsolicited bid 1290 01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:23,400 Speaker 1: where that company we've received it, we're working with that 1291 01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:26,960 Speaker 1: target company, we very quickly can get on the phone 1292 01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,160 Speaker 1: with the board, usually within twenty four hours, and be 1293 01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:32,120 Speaker 1: very thoughtful, here's the value of that bid, here's who 1294 01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:34,120 Speaker 1: the bid or is. Here's the value of our own company, 1295 01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:37,280 Speaker 1: Here's how it compares, and do all that analytical work 1296 01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:42,960 Speaker 1: extremely fast, again remotely wherever that happens, whenever, time of day, boom, 1297 01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:45,799 Speaker 1: we're on it. You know, five seconds later we're working 1298 01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:47,800 Speaker 1: because we know what that product needs to look like 1299 01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:50,200 Speaker 1: to give the board the best advice and the best input. 1300 01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:53,559 Speaker 1: So I think access to information, speed of information, quality 1301 01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:56,559 Speaker 1: of information, the ability to work remotely around the globe 1302 01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:01,600 Speaker 1: seven has just made our business fast and more thoughtful, 1303 01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,200 Speaker 1: and the types of discussions we have are just based 1304 01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:07,280 Speaker 1: on deeper amounts of analysis and information in a much 1305 01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:10,360 Speaker 1: short time series. So the thought of bankers working nights 1306 01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:13,640 Speaker 1: and weekends in the city in the summer when just 1307 01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:19,080 Speaker 1: picture of August weekend and the city is empty, is 1308 01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,599 Speaker 1: that not as true as it once was. You can 1309 01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,439 Speaker 1: log in from a laptop in the Hampton's and not 1310 01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:27,800 Speaker 1: have to be in Manhattan, or is it all hands 1311 01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:30,759 Speaker 1: on deck? There's certainly in the M and A business 1312 01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:34,880 Speaker 1: there's a greater and greater ability for the analytical work 1313 01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:39,600 Speaker 1: to be done remotely, but there's still no substitute, and 1314 01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:42,360 Speaker 1: there is still no substitute for just sitting across face 1315 01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:44,880 Speaker 1: to face with your client talking through the issues, or 1316 01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:47,200 Speaker 1: in front of their board in the boardroom, face to face. 1317 01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:50,400 Speaker 1: So there is still the importance of having that human 1318 01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:55,479 Speaker 1: interaction together talking through the issues, but the preparation for that, 1319 01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:59,880 Speaker 1: generally the valuation work, the analytics the analysis could have 1320 01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,759 Speaker 1: up and remotely do not need to be sitting at 1321 01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:05,960 Speaker 1: an office or a cubicle. The technology we have and 1322 01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:08,960 Speaker 1: our our teams have access to is terrific for them 1323 01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:12,600 Speaker 1: to do that in real time and very seamlessly. So 1324 01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,799 Speaker 1: so let's extrapolate all this forward. Those are the changes 1325 01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:18,280 Speaker 1: that took place. What are the next shifts that are 1326 01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:22,960 Speaker 1: going to happen? Well, I think we continue to think 1327 01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:26,880 Speaker 1: about how to leverage technology so that we can get 1328 01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:29,240 Speaker 1: more done. Right so that if I can work on 1329 01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:32,120 Speaker 1: an I p O or a big equity raise while 1330 01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:34,160 Speaker 1: I'm traveling the world, that means we can get more 1331 01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,720 Speaker 1: done in a day. So I think that theme will 1332 01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:40,200 Speaker 1: continue as we go into future years. But we're also 1333 01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:45,040 Speaker 1: thinking about ways that we can leverage technology, things like 1334 01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:49,320 Speaker 1: artificial intelligence, and ways that we can use technology to 1335 01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:52,840 Speaker 1: analyze and be predictive around deals um and to help 1336 01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:56,559 Speaker 1: clients think about extrapolating um what might happen for them. 1337 01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:59,479 Speaker 1: So there are it's almost it almost could be a 1338 01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:02,040 Speaker 1: full time job just thinking about how we could leverage 1339 01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:05,320 Speaker 1: technology to help issue our clients, or get more done 1340 01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:08,479 Speaker 1: on our side, or be more um thoughtful and creative 1341 01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:12,600 Speaker 1: around future situations that might happen. But but tech is 1342 01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:15,400 Speaker 1: the big change that that's been driving things in the past, 1343 01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,280 Speaker 1: and it sounds like it's going to continue to drive 1344 01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:21,360 Speaker 1: things in the future. I would agree, Chris. I do 1345 01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:24,760 Speaker 1: think there's there's an element of big data or analytics 1346 01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:26,960 Speaker 1: that could be very helpful, and it is becoming more 1347 01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:28,960 Speaker 1: helpful for our business in terms of targeting. You know, 1348 01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,280 Speaker 1: we have a finite number of bankers or resources and 1349 01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:35,040 Speaker 1: a much larger list of potential clients, and the ability 1350 01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:38,280 Speaker 1: to to think about and analyze who may need our 1351 01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:41,519 Speaker 1: help the most, who may be vulnerable to a sher 1352 01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:43,680 Speaker 1: old activists showing up in their stock, who may be 1353 01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:47,200 Speaker 1: vulnerable to a hostile takeover, who looks like they're struggling 1354 01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:51,400 Speaker 1: on a competitive basis, and where maybe a division or 1355 01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:54,720 Speaker 1: or an acquisition or divestit or may make sense. And 1356 01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:57,640 Speaker 1: given the vast amount of information out there, to have 1357 01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:01,720 Speaker 1: thoughtful people combed through that data, uh using technology and 1358 01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:05,519 Speaker 1: surface up a list of priority clients, really prospects or 1359 01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:07,840 Speaker 1: potential clients folks we may not have a relationship with, 1360 01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:09,680 Speaker 1: or if we do have a relationship with them, to 1361 01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:12,160 Speaker 1: flag that Hey, if you haven't had a conversation on 1362 01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:15,759 Speaker 1: this topic, you know, our our screening methods say you should. 1363 01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:19,400 Speaker 1: And that's great in terms of ensuring everything we're working 1364 01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:21,479 Speaker 1: on and everything our teams working on is of its 1365 01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:25,759 Speaker 1: highest and best use. So high quality, high yield, meaning 1366 01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:28,519 Speaker 1: in terms of where we're spending our hours, they're valuable 1367 01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:30,519 Speaker 1: hours our clients want us to be talking to about 1368 01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:34,040 Speaker 1: that topic. So a more predictive element to the business. 1369 01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:36,559 Speaker 1: I think we're feeling that happening today and I think 1370 01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:40,000 Speaker 1: it will continue for So I asked the same eight 1371 01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:43,080 Speaker 1: or nine questions to everybody each week, and one day 1372 01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:46,640 Speaker 1: a reader's a listener sent an email and said, you know, 1373 01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:50,120 Speaker 1: I'd love to find out from your guests what they 1374 01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:52,640 Speaker 1: do outside of the office to relax, what they do 1375 01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:55,599 Speaker 1: to keep mentally sharp, and how do they stay physically fit. 1376 01:13:56,240 --> 01:14:00,160 Speaker 1: I thought that was that. That's the short version. The 1377 01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:05,400 Speaker 1: preface was, Hey, all these folks have really stressful jobs, 1378 01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:11,800 Speaker 1: really demanding jobs. How do they how do they wind down? 1379 01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:14,639 Speaker 1: How do they relax? So let me ask you both. 1380 01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:17,240 Speaker 1: This will be the first time this question has worked 1381 01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:20,880 Speaker 1: its way into the regular podcast questions. So, so, what 1382 01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:22,960 Speaker 1: do you do to kick back on the weekends when 1383 01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:25,640 Speaker 1: you're not in the middle of an underwriting or an acquisition. 1384 01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:29,800 Speaker 1: I guess a couple of topics. Again with with kids, 1385 01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:33,920 Speaker 1: my weekends generally have been great to to help them 1386 01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:36,240 Speaker 1: and watch them with sports and just play around the 1387 01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:39,080 Speaker 1: backyard or go their games. So that certainly has been 1388 01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:42,320 Speaker 1: a fun time to spend, you know, outside of work, 1389 01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:45,360 Speaker 1: focused on them and interacting with them. I played football 1390 01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:48,320 Speaker 1: at high school at college and always enjoyed weight lifting 1391 01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:51,599 Speaker 1: and trading, and every now and then my basement will 1392 01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:54,320 Speaker 1: have me pop into it and and and do a 1393 01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:56,960 Speaker 1: little bit of that as well. Again just as a 1394 01:14:57,040 --> 01:14:59,559 Speaker 1: good way to half hour an hour just go down 1395 01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:02,080 Speaker 1: there and sercize in in that format. I am not 1396 01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:03,840 Speaker 1: a very good golfer, but I love to play so 1397 01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:06,120 Speaker 1: well I may not be able to get out there 1398 01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:07,920 Speaker 1: and play a full round of golf, I'll go to 1399 01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:10,240 Speaker 1: the driving range for an hour and just you know, 1400 01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:12,280 Speaker 1: there's nothing like trying to hit that little white ball 1401 01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:14,960 Speaker 1: to make sure you can't think about anything else. Um. 1402 01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:17,600 Speaker 1: So I find that therapeutic at times. So those are 1403 01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:20,360 Speaker 1: a few things that I do just uh, spend some 1404 01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:23,240 Speaker 1: time about you, Liz, when you're not chasing um your 1405 01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:27,280 Speaker 1: kids around as well, right, I think, similarly similarly to Chris, 1406 01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:29,840 Speaker 1: being with my family is the great reward. And I 1407 01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:33,479 Speaker 1: have a fantastic husband and two incredible children who keep 1408 01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:35,320 Speaker 1: me very active on the weekends as well. And now 1409 01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:37,640 Speaker 1: everybody's old enough that we can actually play a few 1410 01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:40,680 Speaker 1: rounds of golf together, play doubles tennis, which is a 1411 01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:44,639 Speaker 1: little erratic but really fun, and so that's that's been great. 1412 01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:47,200 Speaker 1: And having that time, I think really helps me put 1413 01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:49,920 Speaker 1: things in perspective and and hopefully I do that for 1414 01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:52,479 Speaker 1: my husband, two's in the financial world, has a crazy 1415 01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,000 Speaker 1: intense job as well. Um. And then I think on 1416 01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:58,679 Speaker 1: the exercise front, I love yoga and pilates and starting 1417 01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:01,760 Speaker 1: to learn more about out or starting just scratching the 1418 01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:04,840 Speaker 1: service of learning more about meditation, and just thinking about 1419 01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:07,560 Speaker 1: I've just been inspired hearing about how so many successful 1420 01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:11,840 Speaker 1: business people have used it to hone their own performance. 1421 01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:15,800 Speaker 1: Both both interesting uh answers. Let let me go to 1422 01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:19,599 Speaker 1: my favorite two questions. Um, this comes up a lot 1423 01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:24,120 Speaker 1: from from listeners. So a millennial or recent college graduate 1424 01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:27,160 Speaker 1: comes up to you and and says they're thinking about 1425 01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:30,120 Speaker 1: a career in finance. What sort of advice would you 1426 01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:35,200 Speaker 1: give them? Well, I think, firstly, be prepared to work 1427 01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:37,560 Speaker 1: hard right anything that you want to be successful in 1428 01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:40,280 Speaker 1: you need to work hard and commit to and I 1429 01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:42,840 Speaker 1: think as we talk a lot about millennials and the 1430 01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:47,320 Speaker 1: different perspectives that evolves as each generation comes through the ranks, 1431 01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:50,120 Speaker 1: and I certainly think one bit of advice would be 1432 01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:54,000 Speaker 1: to not forget about the value of consistency in your 1433 01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:58,120 Speaker 1: job and end the and the ability to develop subject 1434 01:16:58,240 --> 01:17:01,720 Speaker 1: matter expertise that doesn't come necessarily from jumping to a 1435 01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:04,160 Speaker 1: new job every two years, even if your friends are 1436 01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:05,759 Speaker 1: doing that and you feel like you might be missing 1437 01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:08,640 Speaker 1: something is to buckle down and get really good at 1438 01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:12,200 Speaker 1: what you're learning. And my limits test was always, when 1439 01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:13,920 Speaker 1: I go to work every day, am I happy to 1440 01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:16,479 Speaker 1: be going and am I learning and growing as a 1441 01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:20,040 Speaker 1: professional and as a person. And if the answers were yes, 1442 01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:23,000 Speaker 1: keep at it. And that strategy has worked really well 1443 01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:25,599 Speaker 1: for me. And so that's why we continue to think 1444 01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,680 Speaker 1: about ways to make sure that our junior employees are 1445 01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:32,040 Speaker 1: getting the experiences and also some of the other broader 1446 01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:34,760 Speaker 1: benefits of working for a large organization that they're seeing 1447 01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,720 Speaker 1: that very clearly every day and getting that opportunity to 1448 01:17:37,880 --> 01:17:42,200 Speaker 1: really advance themselves through multiple years working with JP Morgan 1449 01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:44,559 Speaker 1: and I know Chris and I really enjoy so training 1450 01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:47,960 Speaker 1: that next junior banker coming up the ranks. How about you, Chris, 1451 01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:51,160 Speaker 1: what what? What sort of advice would you give a millennial? 1452 01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:54,680 Speaker 1: Very similar? Once you're you're inner job, and maybe if 1453 01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:56,800 Speaker 1: you can do with some internship or talk to folks 1454 01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:58,400 Speaker 1: to understand it before you get in it. But let's 1455 01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:00,560 Speaker 1: assume you've decided this is the job I want and 1456 01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:03,880 Speaker 1: I'm in that. Just master that job before you start 1457 01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:05,439 Speaker 1: to look up at the next one and the next 1458 01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:07,559 Speaker 1: one and the next one. It's almost a similar way 1459 01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:10,240 Speaker 1: of saying what what Liz was just saying in terms 1460 01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:12,840 Speaker 1: of invest in being great at the task at hand. 1461 01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:15,080 Speaker 1: So what is your job description? What are people expecting 1462 01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:19,000 Speaker 1: of you? Master that quicker, faster, smarter um then lift 1463 01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:20,640 Speaker 1: your head up and look at what the people more 1464 01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:22,439 Speaker 1: senior than you were doing and saying, hey, how can 1465 01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:24,080 Speaker 1: I how can I help you? How can I take 1466 01:18:24,160 --> 01:18:26,160 Speaker 1: some things off of your plate? How can I expand 1467 01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:29,519 Speaker 1: my responsibilities? Where I've seen people fail is they start 1468 01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:32,040 Speaker 1: doing the second part before they've mastered the first part, 1469 01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:34,599 Speaker 1: so they're already looking at the next job, the next 1470 01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, path in their career, and they haven't quite 1471 01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:40,560 Speaker 1: mastered the first part, and they're disappointing the people that 1472 01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:43,000 Speaker 1: are directly relying on them because they're off thinking of 1473 01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:45,200 Speaker 1: step three and four and they haven't really finished step 1474 01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:48,080 Speaker 1: one or two yet. And that basic advice, I do 1475 01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:50,560 Speaker 1: think goes a long way. It's very consistent about just 1476 01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:53,080 Speaker 1: just focus on what you're doing, do that really well, 1477 01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:54,960 Speaker 1: then lift your head up and go on to the 1478 01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:57,400 Speaker 1: next thing and the next thing. Um And I always 1479 01:18:57,439 --> 01:18:59,800 Speaker 1: have this kind of three criteria when I'm when I'm 1480 01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:01,880 Speaker 1: talking to someone. I used this myself throughout my career. 1481 01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:04,240 Speaker 1: Are you learning new skills? So? Are you in a 1482 01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:07,599 Speaker 1: job where you're just developing your own talent these skills? 1483 01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:10,360 Speaker 1: And are they marketable skills? Are they reusable? Can you 1484 01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:12,920 Speaker 1: use it within your job and beyond or even beyond 1485 01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:15,120 Speaker 1: the current job so you never feel trapped? So you're 1486 01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:17,280 Speaker 1: learning new skills? Can you check that box yes or no? 1487 01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:19,560 Speaker 1: Do you like the people you're working with? Do we 1488 01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:23,040 Speaker 1: enjoy going to work? Do you enjoy the team you're 1489 01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,960 Speaker 1: part of? And then the third are you at a 1490 01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:28,080 Speaker 1: firm you're proud of? You know? Are they heading in 1491 01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:30,600 Speaker 1: the right directory? Do you like telling your friends or 1492 01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:32,679 Speaker 1: family where you work, and and just if you're able 1493 01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:34,800 Speaker 1: to check those three boxes and then ask yourself that 1494 01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:37,439 Speaker 1: everyone has a different frequency of this, But every three 1495 01:19:37,479 --> 01:19:39,439 Speaker 1: months or every six months, go back and I learning 1496 01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:41,080 Speaker 1: new skills. Do I like the people I'm with? Do 1497 01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:43,720 Speaker 1: I do? I feel proud about the company? And for me, 1498 01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:46,000 Speaker 1: I've done that throughout my whole career JP Morrigan and 1499 01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:48,679 Speaker 1: have consistently been able to check those through box internal 1500 01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:51,719 Speaker 1: self review exactly and be honest about it with yourself 1501 01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:55,679 Speaker 1: and and to extent you're you're not checking all those boxes, 1502 01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:58,040 Speaker 1: I think it's you know, then you think hard about it, 1503 01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:01,360 Speaker 1: but again, you know, Luckily, for for me, I've been 1504 01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:03,439 Speaker 1: able to check those boxes. I think that third one 1505 01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:05,720 Speaker 1: about the firm is sometimes outside of your control and 1506 01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:07,679 Speaker 1: you maybe get a little lucky. You know. When I joined, 1507 01:20:08,360 --> 01:20:10,519 Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know JP Morgan would evolve and 1508 01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:13,600 Speaker 1: continue to be, you know as it seems. So it 1509 01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,880 Speaker 1: seems the company you work for. You have to not 1510 01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:18,920 Speaker 1: only work for a good company with a good culture. 1511 01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:21,519 Speaker 1: You have to hope that you get a little lucky, 1512 01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:24,800 Speaker 1: and things don't this week especially, I won't mention any names, 1513 01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:28,240 Speaker 1: but there has been some folks testifying in Congress and 1514 01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:31,760 Speaker 1: from a variety of fields, not just finance, and they 1515 01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:35,920 Speaker 1: all um seem to have tripped themselves up a little bit. 1516 01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:38,640 Speaker 1: And if if you're a junior guy in a in 1517 01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:42,320 Speaker 1: a big company that's wholly out of out of your control, 1518 01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:45,040 Speaker 1: it never hurts to get a little lucky, does it. 1519 01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:51,200 Speaker 1: So my final question with with that little uh digression, 1520 01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:54,240 Speaker 1: you know, we don't have the TV on in the office, 1521 01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:57,680 Speaker 1: but every time I'm here, there are screens everywhere, and 1522 01:20:57,760 --> 01:20:59,880 Speaker 1: it seems the past few times I've been in the 1523 01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:04,400 Speaker 1: Bloomberg building, it's been congressional testimony all day long. So 1524 01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:06,760 Speaker 1: you just say, gee, I hope I never have to 1525 01:21:06,840 --> 01:21:10,400 Speaker 1: deal with that. That looks like that's no no fun. Um. 1526 01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:13,599 Speaker 1: So our final question, and and one of my favorite, 1527 01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:17,919 Speaker 1: what is it that you know about your field? About underwriting? 1528 01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:21,599 Speaker 1: An I p O is about mergers and acquisitions today? 1529 01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:23,880 Speaker 1: What is it that you know today that you wish 1530 01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:27,840 Speaker 1: you knew twenty plus years ago when you began let's 1531 01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:32,400 Speaker 1: start with you list, I'd say that everything you do 1532 01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:35,160 Speaker 1: when you work at a big company like JP Morgan 1533 01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:38,400 Speaker 1: can actually shape the market. And I think I didn't 1534 01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:41,560 Speaker 1: really appreciate that early on in my career that some 1535 01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:43,560 Speaker 1: of the things that we were doing back then is 1536 01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:46,680 Speaker 1: we were building our equity capital markets franchise. Way back 1537 01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:49,960 Speaker 1: when is we were defining the market. And so that's 1538 01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:51,920 Speaker 1: a really exciting thing to think about. And sometimes I 1539 01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:54,280 Speaker 1: have to remind our group, is these deals that you're 1540 01:21:54,320 --> 01:21:57,200 Speaker 1: working on, they are shaping what's going on in the 1541 01:21:57,240 --> 01:21:59,840 Speaker 1: financial world. That's why they're on the cover of the 1542 01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:04,680 Speaker 1: newspaper and being discussed on Bloomberg on TV. So it's um, 1543 01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:08,000 Speaker 1: we're an incredibly Chris and I and our colleagues are 1544 01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:11,840 Speaker 1: an incredibly privileged position to be able to use our 1545 01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:16,000 Speaker 1: skills too. We believe make change for the better in 1546 01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:18,559 Speaker 1: terms of whether it's getting companies money, you're helping them 1547 01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:22,519 Speaker 1: progress in their growth trajectory and defining what makes sense 1548 01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:25,800 Speaker 1: in terms of connecting buyers and sellers, and and really 1549 01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:29,400 Speaker 1: contributing to that market environment. Chris, what is it you 1550 01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:31,560 Speaker 1: wish you knew twenty years ago about M and A 1551 01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:35,240 Speaker 1: that you know today. That's something that I've kind of 1552 01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:38,280 Speaker 1: felt evolve over my career as you realize how small 1553 01:22:38,360 --> 01:22:40,920 Speaker 1: the world really is, and certainly when you work at 1554 01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:44,280 Speaker 1: at a global company like JP Morgan, and you're involved 1555 01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:48,360 Speaker 1: in global deals. The people you're interacting with, even at 1556 01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:50,479 Speaker 1: a very young point in your career out of out 1557 01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:57,759 Speaker 1: of school, the treasurer assistant at the company, the junior 1558 01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:01,160 Speaker 1: lawyer at the law firm, a junior analyst at a 1559 01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:04,800 Speaker 1: public relations firm, when you're working with them on a deal, 1560 01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:07,839 Speaker 1: you're kind of growing up with them in the business. 1561 01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:11,320 Speaker 1: And many of my closest clients today were people who 1562 01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:13,840 Speaker 1: were just as junior as me many years ago that 1563 01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:16,400 Speaker 1: I've moved up the organization, and it's just as always 1564 01:23:16,439 --> 01:23:20,639 Speaker 1: a great reminder that everyone you meet, you know, treat 1565 01:23:20,720 --> 01:23:24,439 Speaker 1: with respect, treat in the proper way, you know, do 1566 01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:26,920 Speaker 1: the right thing, because it always comes back and and 1567 01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:29,160 Speaker 1: and it's a real career booster, you know, as you 1568 01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:31,479 Speaker 1: grow up in your business, you know, so that I 1569 01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:35,080 Speaker 1: have many examples where the business development person at a 1570 01:23:35,160 --> 01:23:38,960 Speaker 1: client or the CFO over time becomes the CEO or 1571 01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:43,120 Speaker 1: critical board member, and having that history and positive relationship, 1572 01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:46,040 Speaker 1: you know, it really does help our strategic dialogue and 1573 01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:48,840 Speaker 1: trust in the types of relationship we're building. So again, 1574 01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:51,439 Speaker 1: that's been a good lesson I've watched happen over my 1575 01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:53,680 Speaker 1: career and just I always share that with others as 1576 01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:55,479 Speaker 1: they think about their early days in their career, to 1577 01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:58,479 Speaker 1: make sure everyone they interact with matters for the long term. 1578 01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:01,679 Speaker 1: And the corollary to that is your friends can become 1579 01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:07,280 Speaker 1: your clients. That's quite interesting. We have been speaking with 1580 01:24:07,479 --> 01:24:10,680 Speaker 1: Chris van Tresca. He is the global co head of 1581 01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:15,519 Speaker 1: Mergers and Acquisitions at JP Morgan and Elizabeth Myers, head 1582 01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:19,880 Speaker 1: of Global Equity Capital Markets, also at JP Morgan. If 1583 01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:22,880 Speaker 1: you enjoy this conversation, be sure and look up an 1584 01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:25,639 Speaker 1: inch short down an inch on iTunes and you could 1585 01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:28,360 Speaker 1: see the other hundred and eight or so of these 1586 01:24:28,400 --> 01:24:32,720 Speaker 1: conversations we have had. I would be remiss if I 1587 01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:36,400 Speaker 1: did not thank Taylor Riggs, my booker, Michael Batnick for 1588 01:24:36,479 --> 01:24:39,640 Speaker 1: helping out on research and is it still Charlie in 1589 01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:44,799 Speaker 1: the booth, Charlie Valmer, our recording engineer. I'm Barry Hults. 1590 01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:48,120 Speaker 1: You've been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio, 1591 01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:00,719 Speaker 1: brought to you by Bank of America Mary Lynn. Seeing 1592 01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:03,680 Speaker 1: what others have seen, but uncovering what others may not. 1593 01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:07,880 Speaker 1: Global Research that helps you harness disruption. Voted top global 1594 01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:11,519 Speaker 1: research firm five years running. Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and 1595 01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:12,560 Speaker 1: Smith Incorporated,