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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Sadly, we've all heard the

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Speaker 1: phrase I'm too pretty for jail judge, and even more sadly,

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Speaker 1: it has often worked. Now there's a new saying, I'm

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Speaker 1: too pretty for a long sentence judge, and it worked. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you heard me, the glamorous quote. Murder for higher equestrian

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Speaker 1: Tatiana Rimley just sentenced to under four years in a

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Speaker 1: shocking plea deal after she absolutely hires a hitman to

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Speaker 1: kill her husband for two million dollars. That's right, she

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Speaker 1: orders a hit. She pays good money for a contract

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Speaker 1: to kill her husband, Mark Rimley, just days after she

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Speaker 1: files for divorce. She admits it, and she's only sentenced

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Speaker 1: to three years eight months in a state jail. That's

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Speaker 1: not even prison, after cutting a deal with prosecutors. And

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Speaker 1: of course Starbucks is playing a role in this, as

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Speaker 1: so often occurs. I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us here at Crime Stories and

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Speaker 1: on Serious XEM one eleven. Let's say Starbucks, Starbucks, Starbucks?

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Speaker 1: Why do people meet undercover cops at Starbucks? Seriously, don't

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Speaker 1: they know that there are cameras, surveillance cameras, not only

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Speaker 1: in the drive through, but inside the Starbucks where all

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Speaker 1: the millenniums millennials are laying around reading and chatting on

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Speaker 1: their phones. That said, oh gosh, she was Dahlia Dippolito.

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Speaker 1: Her Remember her when when when my husband's dead, she

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Speaker 1: tried to poison her husband allegedly with a poisonous Starbucks drink.

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Speaker 1: Starbucks did not poison it, She poisoned it allegedly, and

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Speaker 1: then went on to hire a hitman aka undercover agent

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Speaker 1: to kill her husband. I loved it so much. They

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Speaker 1: set up a sting okay, and told her that her

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Speaker 1: husband was dead. I always say, Meryl Streep, move over

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Speaker 1: this woman, Dahlia Dippolito. Man, Oh the act she put on,

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Speaker 1: the screaming of the crying, the pain, the agony, the

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Speaker 1: bending over double physically in pain over her dead husband

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Speaker 1: that she ordered to be murdered. That all started out

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Speaker 1: of Starbucks. And now we have another one because Tatiana Rimley,

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Speaker 1: the this catchphrase is just killing me. The glamorous murder

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Speaker 1: for higher equestrian. She is a vicious and cold blooded

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Speaker 1: would be killer, but okay, glamorous murder for higher equestrian.

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Speaker 1: She was seized by undercover cops posing as the assassins

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Speaker 1: when she met them at a California Starbucks. I'm just

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Speaker 1: stunned that anybody would take a three year deal on

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Speaker 1: a hit, trying to put a two million dollar contract

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Speaker 1: on her husband's life. Now, she was charged in August

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Speaker 1: after she was arrested in a sting by undercover agents

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Speaker 1: of San Diego, who she was convinced weren't contract killers.

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Speaker 1: She brought three guns and a cash deposit for the

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Speaker 1: murder of her husband, who she said she had left

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Speaker 1: quote acting like a scared puppy. I guess he did

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Speaker 1: because he was married to her. She's basically got blood

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Speaker 1: dripping from her mouth like a vampire. Okay, I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at a picture of her. Oh my goodness. Now there

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Speaker 1: are pushup bras, and then there are pushup bras. This well,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever seen anything like it. The

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Speaker 1: heiress Tatiana Ramley will now be jail for a little

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Speaker 1: over three years in California after she admits putting a

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Speaker 1: two million dollar contract on her husband's life. Okay, how

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Speaker 1: did this whole thing start?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 3: Remley had lived a life of luxury in del mar

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Speaker 3: filled with multimillion dollar homes, price horses and sports cars.

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Speaker 4: I've always wanted to start a show.

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Speaker 3: Forty two year old Tatiana Ramley captured the spotlight back

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Speaker 3: in twenty twelve for her involvement in a failed multimillion

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Speaker 3: dollar horse show at the del Mar Fairgrounds, and tonight

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Speaker 3: she's behindh bars now facing far more serious allegations of

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Speaker 3: trying to have her husband, fifty seven year old Mark

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Speaker 3: Remley killed for two million dollars.

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Speaker 1: They sure are throwing around a lot of money. And

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Speaker 1: did you hear her voice?

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Speaker 4: I always wanted to put on a show.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like John David and Lucy when they would

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Speaker 1: put on a magic show at the Christmas gathering or

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Speaker 1: the Thanksgiving gathering or the summer gathering with all the

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Speaker 1: Lynches and the Graces all together. They want to quote

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Speaker 1: put on a show, and then we find out it's

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Speaker 1: a very very expensive horse show.

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Speaker 4: Who has that.

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Speaker 1: Kind of money to throw around? Well, I think I

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Speaker 1: might know the answer to that. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: more from our friends at CBS eight.

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Speaker 3: According to the Sheriff's Department, Remley tried to hire a

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Speaker 3: hitman sometime between July first and August second, right around

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Speaker 3: the time she had filed for divorce. On July third,

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Speaker 3: investigators save they received a tip that Remley was trying

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Speaker 3: to have her husband killed one day after a suspicious

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Speaker 3: fire at their home run Rancho Roposo. The Sheriff's Department

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Speaker 3: then launched a sting operation. An undercover detective met with

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Speaker 3: Tatiana at a Starbucks in Solana Beach, where she allegedly

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Speaker 3: provided detailed information on how she wanted her husband killed

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Speaker 3: and his body disposed of. She also allegedly brought with

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Speaker 3: her three additional firearms, as well as cash to place

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Speaker 3: a down payment for the murder, leading to her arrest.

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Speaker 1: I've got an all star panel, but before I go

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Speaker 1: to chief investigative reporter for dailymail dot Comjensmith, Kathleen Murphy

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Speaker 1: is with me, high profile divorce lawyer. You can find

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Speaker 1: her at Ncdomestic Law dot com.

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Speaker 4: Kathleen Murphy. I know you've.

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Speaker 1: Handled so many divorces you can hardly keep them all straight.

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Speaker 1: But what is wrong with rich people? I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are people in this world aching out a living. They

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Speaker 1: don't have enough to eat. They have what we call

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Speaker 1: food insecurity. They don't know where their next meal is coming. From.

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Speaker 1: They've got children that don't have enough to eat, they

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Speaker 1: barely have a roof over their head. They go paycheck

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Speaker 1: to paycheck. Hey, I've been there, that whole paycheck to

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Speaker 1: paycheck thing.

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Speaker 4: I've worked the three Johns. I get it.

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Speaker 1: So it seems to me the more money people get,

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Speaker 1: the more miserable they are.

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Speaker 5: Nancy, I have a policy in my office that if

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Speaker 5: crazy walks through the door, they're going to walk right

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Speaker 5: back out.

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Speaker 1: I just don't have the.

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Speaker 5: Time to deal with that when we have children who

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Speaker 5: really have needs, and this couple didn't even have any

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Speaker 5: children between them, and they're acting like pure fools. In

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Speaker 5: North Carolina, you don't even get to bring any of this.

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Speaker 5: Shazazzle into an equitable district is.

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Speaker 1: A technical legal term. They did not teach me either

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Speaker 1: at Mercer Law School, the Walter of George School's law

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Speaker 1: or NYU. Shazazzle is that one of your what that

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Speaker 1: is a legal term North Carolina?

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Speaker 6: That is a legal term.

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Speaker 4: And what may I asked? Azz mean?

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Speaker 1: Well, okay, got it, that's what that is. Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is a technical legal term. Thank you. I've got

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Speaker 1: a new word, guys. We are talking about it. So

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Speaker 1: called glamorous Russian equestion. Boy, do I've got a surprise

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Speaker 1: for you? Who is accused of taking out a two

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Speaker 1: million dollar hit on her husband?

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Speaker 4: And with me right now?

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Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold renounced psychiatrist joining us out of the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold md dot com.

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Speaker 4: What is wrong with rich people?

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Speaker 1: I didn't really get a good answer from Kathleen Murphy.

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Speaker 1: I learned a new legal term, chzazzle. But what is

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Speaker 1: wrong with them? A two million dollar hit? I mean

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Speaker 1: they've got money coming out of their rare ends.

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Speaker 7: So, Nancy, I believe that when people become so wealthy

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Speaker 7: that they lose their purpose in life. They have no

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Speaker 7: purpose in life. They can have whatever they want, they

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Speaker 7: don't have to wait for anything, and it changes your mindset.

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Speaker 7: When you don't have a purpose, you don't have to work,

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Speaker 7: you don't have to have delayed gratification, and it makes

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Speaker 7: people unhappy.

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Speaker 1: You know what my grandmother said, Doctor Angie Arnold, idle

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Speaker 1: hands are the devil's workshop. I mean, it's all wait

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Speaker 1: out right there in Genesis. And I'm certainly not a

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Speaker 1: Bible scholar, but I was very shocked when I learned.

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Speaker 1: It says in Genesis that we are here to glorify

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Speaker 1: and to work to.

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Speaker 4: Toil Ti L.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a reason for that, because apparently he

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Speaker 1: was getting too much trouble when they don't have a job.

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Speaker 4: So how did the whole thing go down?

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Speaker 1: Jim Smith joining me, Chief investigative reporter, Dailymail dot Com.

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Speaker 4: First of all, is the husband still alive?

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Speaker 6: As far as we know, he is absolutely alive, Nancy,

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Speaker 6: But he can't be sund we don't know where he is.

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Speaker 1: Wait, Jen Smith, haven't you been in my world long

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Speaker 1: enough to know when somebody goes missing there's a really

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Speaker 1: good chance they're dead. This woman's already a legedly taking

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Speaker 1: out a two million dollar hit on the guy, and

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Speaker 1: now we can't find him. Why do you think he's alive?

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Speaker 4: Jen Smith?

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Speaker 1: And I'd like to point out Jackie is furiously waving

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Speaker 1: a note at me. Put it back up, please, unlet's

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Speaker 1: eve erace it that he and she's angry. She's angry

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Speaker 1: this morning because this guy that we can't find, Mark Rimley,

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Speaker 1: inherited all of his money. He didn't earn it. And

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Speaker 1: I have to agree with you, Jackie, there's a big

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Speaker 1: difference when you are born into money and when you

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Speaker 1: have to work for it.

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Speaker 6: Well, you're right, I mean normally, when we have an

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Speaker 6: attempted murder, for higher plaut, we have a missing intended victim,

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Speaker 6: you would think that they're in real trouble. The reason

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Speaker 6: I say he is missing is because before any of

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Speaker 6: us learned to grow this Plawtntainy Mark Bramley roared up

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Speaker 6: in his ferrari to his neighbor's host said, I'm having

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Speaker 6: a seizure. I need to go to the hospital. You

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Speaker 6: need to help.

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Speaker 2: Wait.

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Speaker 1: He could drive his ferrari to his neighbor's house, but

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Speaker 1: he couldn't call nine to one one.

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Speaker 4: I'm having a seizure. Is that what he said?

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Speaker 6: Many many questions around the behavior of this couple. Obviously,

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Speaker 6: he was taken to the hospital for medical care. We

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Speaker 6: know that he made it there, and we know that

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Speaker 6: he seemingly made it after that. It looks like he's

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Speaker 6: high tailed it. And I can't say that many people

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Speaker 6: would blame him given what his wife KATHIAA had in

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Speaker 6: store for him.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we know he was at the hospital. We

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Speaker 1: know he was discharged from the hospital from his seizure.

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Speaker 1: I still don't understand why he drove to his neighbors.

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Speaker 1: Let me guess, is it a red Ferrari? I'm just wild, guess.

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Speaker 6: It's actually a black Ferrari.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, that was my second choice time stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. In the latest, the so called Glamorous Murder

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Speaker 1: for higher equestrian Tatiana Rimley sentenced to a little over

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Speaker 1: three years behind bars and a stunning plea deal in

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Speaker 1: California after she admits she hires a hitman to kill

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Speaker 1: her husband for two million dollars, showing up with three

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Speaker 1: guns and money to the assassins, who were really undercover

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Speaker 1: agents at a Starbucks.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: The couple married back in twenty eleven and had already

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Speaker 1: filed divorce papers against each other before they gained fame

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Speaker 1: the next year with an equestrian circus show at the

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Speaker 1: Delmar Fairgrounds, and it was based on the really famous

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Speaker 1: Cirq to Slay. The Valetar show was a huge flop,

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Speaker 1: and it plunged into bankruptcy after just five of the

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Speaker 1: planned forty five performances. Now, the I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: eating a dirt sandwich when I keep saying this. The glamorous. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I gotta give it to her. She is glamorous, Well

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Speaker 1: she is. Now she's not gonna be glamorous behind bars.

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Speaker 1: But the Glamorous Murder for Higher Equestrian Tatiana Rimley. Now,

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Speaker 1: she claimed that she was Russian with a background in dressage. Dressage, Well,

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Speaker 1: it's for rich people, let's just start right there. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's a certain type of an equestrian horse assent. It's

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Speaker 1: requires a lot of training and a lot of skill

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Speaker 1: and a lot of precision. Again, she claimed to be

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Speaker 1: Russian with the background in dusage, and she fronted publicity

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Speaker 1: and insisted that her face appear on every billboard, every poster,

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Speaker 1: every ad, and that she appear in the show despite

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Speaker 1: mediocre at best writing skills. Well, she didn't do any

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Speaker 1: of the stunts, according to sources. But in the end,

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Speaker 1: when the whole cast would line up and everybody's applauding,

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Speaker 1: this blonde lady comes down the center, all the other

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Speaker 1: cast members part for her, and there is silence and

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Speaker 1: everybody says, who's that, Oh, it's the lady and the poster.

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Speaker 1: Well that was Tatiana Remley. The Glamorous Murder for Higher

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Speaker 1: Equestion still choking on that she is a would be killer.

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Speaker 1: She's bloodthirsty. Have you ever picked up a frog and

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Speaker 1: looked at right in the face. It has no emotion

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Speaker 1: at all. It just looks to eat you with those cold,

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Speaker 1: blood a little eyes. That's her, She's the frog in

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Speaker 1: the scenario. Anyway, back to how this whole things started

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Speaker 1: Jim Smith joining me, Chief investigative reporter, dailymail dot Com.

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Speaker 1: How does she end up getting found out by police?

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Speaker 6: Well, not very clever, moved by tassi Anna Rambley. The

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Speaker 6: person that she confessed her plan to was a mutual

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Speaker 6: friend of the couple, who, upon hearing her intention to

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Speaker 6: have her husband murdered, he called the police. Then from

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Speaker 6: there the police initiated a sting operation and the intended

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Speaker 6: hitman nan see the person she thought she was going

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Speaker 6: to pay two million dollars to kill her husband, even

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Speaker 6: an undercover cop. That's how it's all unraveled.

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Speaker 1: Robin Driike joining Me, behavior expert, former FBI Special Agent,

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Speaker 1: chief of the FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program and author

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Speaker 1: of Sizing People Up. This is an incredible book, by

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Speaker 1: the way, Sizing People Up a veteran FBI agent's manual

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Speaker 1: for behavior prediction. Hey, are you seeing a Ladies? Read

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Speaker 1: this book before you go on your next date. You

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Speaker 1: can find them at peopleformula dot com. Sizing People Up

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Speaker 1: a veteran FBI A just manual for behavior prediction.

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Speaker 4: I usually put it in a nutshell, Robin Drake.

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Speaker 1: If you don't know what somebody's gonna do, look at

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Speaker 1: what they've already done. That's just my general formula, Robin Drake,

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Speaker 1: what's wrong with these two people?

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Speaker 8: Well, you hit it right there, and we'll riff on

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Speaker 8: what your other guests just said. And this is she's

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Speaker 8: got a life arc of.

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Speaker 1: Shizzazzle mispronunciation place I believe she says shiz azzle.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, this is dazzle.

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Speaker 9: But it's these people.

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Speaker 8: You know, we're genetically and biologically coded to survive and

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Speaker 8: thrive in deprivation, believe or not, as biological organisms on

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Speaker 8: its planning. So when you have a when you have

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Speaker 8: abundance like they have, you get ultimately caught up in

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Speaker 8: the cult of more, and you're constantly wanting and craving more.

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Speaker 8: And my question throughout this entire thing, she's got a

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Speaker 8: life arc of really abnormal, unhealthy behavior of all these

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Speaker 8: things and violence and sex and drugs and rock and

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Speaker 8: roll and all that. But I'm really curious as to

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Speaker 8: what she was going to gain by killing her husband,

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Speaker 8: because she's using financial gains from child support and all

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Speaker 8: these other things. But always there's a motive behind Killy's.

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Speaker 8: A lot of times it's life insurance policies and things

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Speaker 8: like that.

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Speaker 6: But what I'm.

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Speaker 8: Really curious about is every other husband has a pre

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Speaker 8: nup that's been really rock solid against her, and so

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Speaker 8: she's really struggled at hers. I really want to know

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Speaker 8: why she wanted to have them killed. What was she

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Speaker 8: going to get? All her behavior throughout her entire life

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Speaker 8: has been self serving for herself, and I'm not getting

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Speaker 8: it yet.

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Speaker 1: I think I've started that by asking what is wrong

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Speaker 1: with these people? And frankly, that's not my concern. I'm

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Speaker 1: not a shrink. I don't need to know what's wrong

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Speaker 1: with them. I don't need to know why. The reality

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Speaker 1: is that when you are in court and you're trying

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Speaker 1: to prove a case why, motive doesn't matter. The state

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Speaker 1: never has to prove motive realistically, practically speaking, would like

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Speaker 1: to find out why, because you see these two come

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Speaker 1: into court and you think, why would she risk it

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Speaker 1: all by hiring a hitman? So you may want to

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Speaker 1: know motive so you can tell that to a jury,

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Speaker 1: so that final piece of the puzzle isn't missing. But

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Speaker 1: I want to find out more about these people and

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Speaker 1: about the alleged hit. Now a lot started falling apart

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Speaker 1: after a failed horse show. A failed horse show, and

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Speaker 1: guess who I've got with me? An equestrian specialists. But

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Speaker 1: what does that have to do with these two who

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Speaker 1: are in a whole heap of trouble. It's like two

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Speaker 1: wet cats and a barrel. Take a listen our cut seventeen,

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Speaker 1: ABC ten.

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Speaker 10: More than a month after the Valatar Show was abruptly canceled,

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Speaker 10: the Big Red Tent is still here at the del

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Speaker 10: Mar Fairgrounds parking lot, and tonight the show's producers are

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Speaker 10: facing a second lawsuit. Elite Show Services, a company you

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Speaker 10: might know from Chargers Games, where they provide security allotar

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Speaker 10: producer Mark Rimley and his wife Tatiana owe them more

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Speaker 10: than sixty five thousand dollars. Elite's beef with the Rimleys

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Speaker 10: actually goes back about four years. The company says the

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Speaker 10: Rimley's not only stiffed them on Valotar Elite says, the

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Speaker 10: couple has done the same thing to them before.

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Speaker 4: Jasmeth, what is Valatar?

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Speaker 6: So Valatar would have been and was, briefly the Ramleys

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Speaker 6: sort of perman version of the show that you mentioned

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Speaker 6: that you had seen yourself, Nancy Oh. They decided that

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Speaker 6: they wanted to create a sort of version similar versions,

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Speaker 6: but they wanted it to be raunchier. So their idea

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Speaker 6: was that they would gather horses, they would gather kind

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Speaker 6: of sexy acrobats, and they would put on this horse

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Speaker 6: show that would rival what you saw, which was actually

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Speaker 6: created by one of the founders of Sarcus Delay. So

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Speaker 6: pretty lost the ambitions there that was Valatar. It didn't

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Speaker 6: last very long, I think maybe four or five shows.

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Speaker 6: And really the problem was that while Tatiana might have

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Speaker 6: been a horse enthusiast, she certainly bought some or her

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Speaker 6: husband's thought them for her, she knew nothing about what

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Speaker 6: it required to run not just a show, but a

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Speaker 6: show involving animals. There were accidents on sets. Some of

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Speaker 6: the horses ended up with broken legs, getting tangled in

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Speaker 6: carriages that she was trying to use in props. You

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Speaker 6: had experts warning her, you know, don't know anything about this,

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Speaker 6: and her husband was the same. So the show didn't

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Speaker 6: last very long. But it might not come as a

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Speaker 6: surprise to you to learn she was the face of it.

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Speaker 6: She was the face that you saw on all the

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Speaker 6: posters advertising this horse show, and she was the one

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Speaker 6: who came out at the end of the show took

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Speaker 6: about for the audience, even though she really had no

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Speaker 6: involvement in any of the stuns in.

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Speaker 1: The last days. The murder for hire Okay, I'll say

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Speaker 1: it again, glamorous murder for higher equestrian Tatiana Rimley sentenced

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Speaker 1: to just a little over three years for a cold

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Speaker 1: blooded murder for higher plot. I'm stune, I'm stune. What

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Speaker 1: were those prosecutors thinking.

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 1: I can hear doctor Angela Arnold trumping at the bit

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Speaker 1: to scream out narcissism. But hold on, I want you

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Speaker 1: ought to know more facts about the I mean, what

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Speaker 1: a boondoggle. Just just think about how much college tuition

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Speaker 1: was everything I think about I think about? Okay, would

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Speaker 1: this be the twins college tuition? Would this be the

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Speaker 1: health insurance? Do I really want it that much that

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Speaker 1: I have to pay this amount for it? When I

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Speaker 1: hear seventy thousand dollars and this amount and that amount,

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Speaker 1: that's how.

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Speaker 4: I look at it.

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Speaker 1: I want you to hear more about this so called

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Speaker 1: horse show. I think it's a lot more than that.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at ABC ten.

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Speaker 10: Ballatar went dark in late November after just a few performances.

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Speaker 5: They did strand the performers, and they stranded the horses

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Speaker 5: as well.

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Speaker 10: A benefit show held in December raised enough money to

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Speaker 10: send all the performers and horses home.

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Speaker 11: During the sho show, she showed up one day with

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Speaker 11: a horse and was like, oh, look, I just got

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Speaker 11: this horse. I only spent seventy thousand dollars on him.

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Speaker 11: The asking price for the horse at the time had

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Speaker 11: been thirty K, so she managed to spend forty thousand

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Speaker 11: dollars more than the asking price just because she decided

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Speaker 11: she wanted that horse.

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Speaker 9: And someone saw a sucker written on her face.

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Speaker 1: I guess seventy thousand dollars for a thirty thousand dollars horse.

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Speaker 1: You were hearing Eric Martanovitch with our friends at News Nation.

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Speaker 1: But now take a listen to Eric Martanovitch speaking to

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Speaker 1: that billboard.

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Speaker 4: Jen Smith was telling you about, and.

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Speaker 9: She wanted to.

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Speaker 11: She had a billboard for Valatar the show made with

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Speaker 11: her standing there looking as sexy as she could holding

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Speaker 11: a pole, kind of looked like an ad for a

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Speaker 11: trip club. And she put it on I five where

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Speaker 11: he had to drive every day.

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Speaker 9: So that he would have to see it.

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Speaker 11: So she she definitely had a little vendetta going. She

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Speaker 11: obviously didn't like him, and she wanted to show him

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Speaker 11: how wonderful she was doing without him.

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Speaker 1: Okay, with that in mind, I want to introduce to

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Speaker 1: you to as very special guest, Bridget Brandon, joining us

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Speaker 1: out of Texas Horse Specialist. She is the president of

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Speaker 1: the Equine Expert. You can find her at the Equine

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Speaker 1: Expert dot com. Bridget Brandon, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 4: When I heard that some.

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Speaker 1: Of the horses fell with tangled up in carriages and

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Speaker 1: so forth, I mean, isn't a broken leg essentially the

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Speaker 1: kiss of death for a horse, a show horse?

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Speaker 2: Well, it can be. I'm not a vet, and there's

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Speaker 2: been a lot of new technology as far as medicine goes,

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Speaker 2: but certainly with the broken leg it can end a

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Speaker 2: horses athletic performance for sure. Most of these horses were

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Speaker 2: either stallions or gelings, but certainly with the broken leg

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Speaker 2: it could run that horse's particular career and devalue.

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Speaker 7: The horse as well.

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Speaker 1: I was listening to what various guests and experts have

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Speaker 1: said that while she knew how to ride a horse,

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Speaker 1: putting on a horse show to the extent of something

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Speaker 1: comparable to cavalia, that's a big deal.

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Speaker 4: That's a very big deal.

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Speaker 2: You've got to consider the bedding, the footing, the feed,

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Speaker 2: the water where you're going to practice, the conditions for

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Speaker 2: the horses, heat and air. There's a lot of planning

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Speaker 2: circumstances you've got to have that's available on hand. And

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Speaker 2: you know, in case an accident happens, like broken leg

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Speaker 2: or an injury of some sort a horse colleges, there's

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Speaker 2: numerous things that you've.

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Speaker 7: Got to be prepared for.

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Speaker 2: And it's one of those stry you just don't If

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Speaker 2: you don't if you're not experienced in it, you just

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Speaker 2: don't know what you don't know.

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Speaker 4: Many things could happen another thing.

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Speaker 1: Bridget Brandon with US Horse Specialists, the president of the

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Speaker 1: Equine Expert Bridget I am always fascinated by well many

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Speaker 1: events in the Olympics, but I remember seeing I think

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Speaker 1: it was one of the royals competing in a horse

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Speaker 1: drawn carriage race. I mean we're used to, for instance,

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Speaker 1: the Kentucky Derby or various races we see on American TV.

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Speaker 1: We don't see a lot of carriage races. It's a

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Speaker 1: very very specialized sport.

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Speaker 2: It is a specialized sport, and it involves a lot

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Speaker 2: of twists and turns and going around obstacles, and you

437
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: have to have very highly trained horses to do that

438
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 2: type of event, and you yourself need to be trained

439
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 2: as well.

440
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:01,959
Speaker 1: Weren't there carriage horses in this show? To you, Jenn Smith?

441
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 6: There were? I mean whether or not they actually ended

442
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 6: up using them in the show, I'm not sure. But

443
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 6: we know that there was some sort of accident in

444
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 6: the rehearsal involving at least one horse, and that horse

445
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 6: ended up breaking its legs because it got caught in

446
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 6: the contraptments that they were trying to use.

447
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: So what happened did they just pull out leave everybody

448
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: hind right without paying them?

449
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's exactly what's alleged. And then what happened afterwards,

450
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 6: were you know, a mountain of lasses you have these

451
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 6: people who give up their time to do this, they

452
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 6: say no to other jobs, and then they end up

453
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 6: kind of high and dry. We know that Mark and

454
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 6: Tastian and that they had tumultuous marriage. We ended up

455
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 6: staying together for you know, legally married around ten years.

456
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 6: But there were on again off again there were separations.

457
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 6: There were you know, real gaps where they were not

458
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 6: a united front. And at least during one of those,

459
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 6: Mark said that he wanted to carry on with the

460
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 6: show and was going to deal with the experts himself,

461
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 6: putting Tatiana out of it. They then ended up back

462
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 6: together and Tatiana's back in the frame. It was just

463
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 6: a whole mess. These were two people who did not

464
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 6: know what they were doing and clearly weren't prepared to

465
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 6: listen to the experts were telling them all.

466
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 4: That money though Jenn Smith, well.

467
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 6: Apparently it wasn't enough to put on what they wanted

468
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 6: to do. The experts that we've all heard from and said, yeah,

469
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 6: they had some money, but it wasn't enough to achieve

470
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 6: or pull off the level of theatrics and performance that

471
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 6: they were trying to achieve.

472
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: He had the money, millions and millions of dollars. I

473
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: don't know how much more he wanted to sink into

474
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: a horse show. But guys, they had more problems than

475
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: just money problems and horse problems.

476
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 4: Take a listen to our cut twenty four.

477
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 9: So in a seventeen I got a phone call from Mark.

478
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 11: This is after our business deals had failed miserably and

479
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 11: I didn't want anything to do with him, and he

480
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 11: was trying to get me to come down to San

481
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 11: Diego and hang out.

482
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 9: And I couldn't figure out what he wanted.

483
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 11: A friend of ours was at my place and we

484
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 11: were talking about it, and I just brought it up as.

485
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 9: A weird thing, that why was Mark bothering me?

486
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 11: And he immediately knew the answer and he said, oh,

487
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 11: Tatiana wants to sleep with you while he watches. So

488
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 11: apparently they were trying to get me to come down

489
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 11: there and have sex with Tatiana while Mark watched.

490
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 12: For install. The New York Post that Mark and Tatiana

491
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 12: Rimley were featured in the twenty seventeen Showtime docuseriies Naked Sanctum,

492
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 12: where the pair was seen hanging out with fellow swingers.

493
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 12: When appearing on the Showtime series Naked Sanctum, where members

494
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 12: of an elite sex club share partners. Mark Rimley went

495
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 12: under the pseudonym Vladimir and identified himself as an entrepreneur.

496
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 12: Remley using the name Vladimir shocked many people close to

497
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 12: the couple. Tatiana has a brother named Vladimir, the same

498
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 12: brother she accused of sexually assaulting her when she was

499
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 12: a child.

500
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: You know, Kathleen Murphy, trial lawyer joining me out of

501
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: North Carolina. When you start a prosecution, you have to

502
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: go to some very dark places. I've been in every

503
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: strip club, male and female in town, drug houses, flop houses,

504
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: houses for everybody is high on something and people are

505
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: over in the corner chasing the dragon.

506
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 4: I mean, you name it, been there. Some of it.

507
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 4: I wish I couldn't remember.

508
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 2: Some of it.

509
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 4: I've tried to forget a lot of it. I've tried

510
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 4: to forget. But I'm trying to get.

511
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: In my head wrapped around what I just heard from

512
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: NewsNation and crimeonline dot Com. Did I hear Jen Smith

513
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: that they wanted their friend Eric Martanovich to come down

514
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: and have sex with the wife while the husband watched.

515
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 4: Did I hear that that's what you heard? You don't

516
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 4: seem like you're worried about it at all.

517
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 9: Girl?

518
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: Did I also hear they were on Naked snc TM.

519
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: I guess that's for Sanctum on Showtime Naked Sanctum.

520
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 6: That's right. They appeared very well on this pretty CD

521
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 6: show that followed the life of wealthy swingers that attended

522
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 6: these kind of what are meant to be exclusive sex parties.

523
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 6: Tatiana in this episode at least sporting dark hair. She's

524
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 6: sitting at a table, she's being caressed by woman, and

525
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 6: Mark as watching with a kind of excited look in

526
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 6: his eye. They then give this on camera interview where

527
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 6: he refers to himself as Vladimir. Now, as you heard,

528
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 6: they're in the clipper's place. That's a very sick reference

529
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 6: given we've heard a prior allegation against a brother of

530
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 6: Tatiana's called Vladimir, who is said to have sexually abused

531
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 6: her when she was a child.

532
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: So she claims her brother sex abused her as a child.

533
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: And then when they're play acting at what was it

534
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: called Naked Sanctum.

535
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 6: Naked Santom, he takes the.

536
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: Moniker Vladimir, knowing full well that she claims her brother

537
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: sex abused her.

538
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 4: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

539
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: Well, I guess it's justice California style, a little over

540
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: three years for planning to have your husband assassinated showing

541
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: up with guns and money. This woman, Tatiana Rimley, a

542
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: mother of two, had finished school in fourth grade. Somehow

543
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: managed to snag multiple wealthy men with a series of

544
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: so called failed engagements. Well, that's certainly putting perfume on

545
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: the pig. I guess after she sucked a few of

546
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: them dry, they would dumper and she'd move on to

547
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: their best friend. She was fighting for custody of the

548
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: sun she shared with a multi millionaire biotech tycoon, be

549
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: Kenneth Woolcott. They separated in two thousand and four after

550
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: just eleven months of marriage, one man after the next.

551
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: At least they lived right, at least she didn't. Oh

552
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: my goodness, I'm looking at more for promotional posters. It's

553
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: her between two horses looking. I guess some people would

554
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: call it sexy. Okay, anyway, I wonder how sexy she's

555
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: gonna look after three years behind bars. But knowing this woman,

556
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: she'll probably get out early. I'm not sure how prosecutors

557
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: could turn a blind eye to how this whole thing unfolded.

558
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: But I know this. I know that on July fifth,

559
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: she was arrested with three firearms and money as her

560
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: home burned to the ground. You think that was an accident,

561
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: hgl noo, But of course she has not been charged

562
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: with arson is presumed innocent. Later, she files for divorce again,

563
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: requesting fifty thousand dollars a month in spousal support. Hey, lady,

564
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: just go get a job like the rest of us. Okay,

565
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: let's get off her work ethic or light thereof, and

566
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: back on the facts of the would be murder plot.

567
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: Joining me right now is Brad Watts, licensed Professional Counselor

568
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: and certified sex offender treatment provider who specializes in sibling

569
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: sex abuse sibling sex abuse. This is book Sibling sex Abuse,

570
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: America's Silent epidemic. Brad Watts, LPC, Licensed Professional Counselor dot

571
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: com Brad.

572
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 4: This woman lies so much.

573
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: I don't know whether to believe her that she had

574
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: a brother named Vladimir that molested her.

575
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 13: Yeah, Nancy, Yeah, it's not to believe anything that she says.

576
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 13: But my experience is that for a survivor of sibling

577
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 13: sexual abuse, for her husband to going to the Moniker's

578
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 13: Vladimir the name of the brother who sexually abused her,

579
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 13: That would be highly triggering. I mean, that would be

580
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 13: like I think about the show on the set, her

581
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 13: being finding that out, becoming incredibly upset, not able to

582
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 13: move forward with it. And so there's just a lot here. Obviously,

583
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 13: you know, I don't know. You know, perhaps she was

584
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 13: sexually abuse but by Vladimir.

585
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 1: But why would she go along with her husband using

586
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: his name in some crazy sex game for a showtime production.

587
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 13: It makes no sense to me, Like I said, in

588
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 13: my experience, most survivors would be severely triggered even by

589
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 13: hearing the name, you know, particularly with the description that

590
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 13: the mother gave about her the sibling sexual abuse being

591
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 13: because you know, Vladimir was jealous of her and you know,

592
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 13: keeping her isolated for ten years and all these other things.

593
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 4: But the brother kept isolated. What about her parents?

594
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: And we found out about this and one of their

595
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: divorced dramas where it came out. It was in her

596
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: mother's testimony back in two thousand and six.

597
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 4: So did the parents know? Were they unaware?

598
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: I find it hard to believe her brother kept her

599
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: isolated for ten years without the parents say so, I

600
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: just have a lot of issues with that, and then

601
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 1: going along with her husband using her sex abuser's name

602
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 1: in this charade. You know, doctor Angie Arnold, We've discussed

603
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: many times. When someone even says the name Keith, it's

604
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: like somebody poured cold water on me out of the blue,

605
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: the name of my fiance that was murdered, or if

606
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: someone just asked me about it, good well intentioned it

607
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: just you know, I can be having a perfectly fine

608
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: day and they bring that up, and then I have

609
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: to remember everything. So I'm very surprised that she would

610
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: go along with him using the name Vladimir if in

611
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: fact she was molested by brother Vladimir for so long.

612
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 7: I know that that seems surprising to a lot of people.

613
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 7: But I know that you're not going to like what

614
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 7: I have to say about this. But how do we

615
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 7: know that this woman wasn't somehow being abused by this husband.

616
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 7: I know that it all looks very flashy on the outside,

617
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 7: butt Nancy. There are not a lot of people who

618
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 7: want to have sex with other people while their husband watches,

619
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 7: but the husband makes them do it, they're punished if

620
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 7: they don't do it, they're punished in all kinds of ways.

621
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 7: And so we don't know what kind of punishment she

622
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 7: was suffering from him, So that it looks strange to

623
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 7: us that she didn't have a reaction that one of

624
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 7: us would have to this. But she's got a story

625
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 7: in a background that's very different than any of us.

626
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what you're right about that.

627
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this.

628
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 11: She had a character that she played all the time,

629
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 11: and it was this Russian barbie princess equestrian. And I

630
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 11: don't think any of it was true. It was all

631
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 11: something she made up. I'm pretty sure her real name

632
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 11: is Tanya. I don't think it's actually Tatiana. It's all

633
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 11: this persona that she's made up. And maybe it's a

634
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 11: you know, came from the childhood trauma and she needed

635
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 11: a character that she could become that wasn't tortured. I

636
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 11: don't know, but there's none of it's real. It's all

637
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 11: her character that she plays.

638
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: From our friends at News Nation now, listen to crime

639
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: online dot Com.

640
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 12: Former friends who have known Tatiana Rimley say she said

641
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 12: she was Russian and had a background in dressage, a

642
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 12: highly specialized form of horse riding and equidisplay. However, a

643
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 12: former business partner, Eric Martanovich, says Remley made up the

644
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 12: backstory of her life and that her real name is Tanya.

645
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 12: The Daily Mail reports that Rimley was born in Arizona,

646
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 12: raised in Bend, Oregon. Her last name is Clark. She's

647
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 12: not Russian. While working at a San Diego animal park

648
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 12: and doing some modeling, Tatiana Rimley began a relationship with

649
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 12: Ken Wilcott. Wilcott is a former Southern California attorney and

650
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 12: biotech tycoon who was part owner of the NBA Seattle SuperSonics.

651
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 12: Taitiana was twenty three years old and six months pregnant

652
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 12: with their son, Spencer, when she and forty three year

653
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 12: old Woolcott got married. The marriage only lasted eleven months,

654
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 12: but the battle for money would rage on for years,

655
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 12: even though a prenuptial agreement was signed by Tatiana Rimley.

656
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: Okay, so everything she's told us about her background, her name,

657
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: where she's from.

658
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 4: Was raised in ben To, Oregon, not Russia. Her name

659
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 4: is Tanya, not Tatiana.

660
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: I assume she was an experty question because she was

661
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: seen riding by many to Richard Brandon, the president of

662
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: the Equine Expert.

663
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 4: Isn't it dressage?

664
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: Is that the name for that very complicated type of

665
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: horse competition?

666
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 2: A yes, pressage. It basically means training on horseback. It's

667
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 2: a bit like ballet on a push.

668
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: Back and the horse actually learns like stepping backwards into

669
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: the side and very very complicated moves. What more do

670
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 1: we know about Tatiana aka Tanya from Bend, Oregon. Take

671
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut seven from crime Online.

672
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 12: While Tatiana Rimley was fighting her ex husband in court,

673
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 12: her former friends tell The New York Post that Rimley

674
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 12: was the life of the party and was targeting rich

675
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 12: men who could mangrol her lifestyle. Mark Grimley did just

676
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 12: that after they met at a local Starbucks and married

677
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 12: in March of twenty eleven. Pals of the couple told

678
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 12: the Post the two shared a passion for money, riding horses, drugs,

679
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 12: and participating in orgies.

680
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: Okay, a passion for money, riding horses, drugs and orgies,

681
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 1: Is that right, Tim Smith?

682
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 13: That's right.

683
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 6: A pretty unique stet of interest there. But you know,

684
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 6: we definitely seems as though this was a mutually complicit

685
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 6: arrangement Tatiana we know or Tanya. She also enjoyed having

686
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 6: secs with other people, whether or not her husband was there.

687
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 6: Sometimes he was, sometimes he wasn't We know that they

688
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 6: both were buried. They had a you know, open and

689
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 6: fluid marriage to say the least. There were drugs, there

690
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 6: were orgies. There were some occasions where he brought home

691
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 6: apparently entire strip clubs full of people back to their house.

692
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 6: And they did have many children between them. They might

693
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 6: not have had any kids together, but they were responsible

694
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 6: for at least five or six children. And they and

695
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 6: they were living this really X rated and at times,

696
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 6: you know, darknight CD lifestyle.

697
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 4: You know what, I'm not the church lady.

698
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: I don't care who they sleep with or if they

699
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: have orgies or don't have orgies, or have an open

700
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: marriage or don't have an open marriage.

701
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 4: But what it is.

702
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: Telling me to write and Draek formerly of the FBI,

703
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: is that there is a lot of motive for murder.

704
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: The first husband wasn't the first husband Jasmith super rich

705
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: as well?

706
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:11,760
Speaker 4: Like rolling in money.

707
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, he was super rich. He had the foresight to

708
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 6: protect himself with what is described as an ironclad prenup,

709
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 6: it didn't stop her from being able to gleet him

710
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 6: from some money, and the way that she accomplished it

711
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 6: was by demanding very large child support payments for the

712
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 6: sun that they shared.

713
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 1: So Robin Drake behavior expert, all of this talk about

714
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: orgies and open marriages and a showtime special and money

715
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: just money, hemorrhaging money for me, in my world, it's

716
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: all evidence. Do I have motive for murder? And there

717
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: is no way as it stands right now that I

718
00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 1: do not believe the undercover agent with whom she, according

719
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: to him, contracted to kill her husband.

720
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 8: Yeah, this is a great example of people living beyond

721
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 8: their intellect and she is definitely do it. Combine that

722
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 8: with total addiction of dopamine hits from every single aspect

723
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 8: of life because they aren't struggling except to get more

724
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 8: money and learn behavior of how to acquire resources in

725
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 8: their lives unhealthy. Yeah, you're right, it's following that life

726
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 8: arc of complete chaos. And I'd be really interested to

727
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 8: see what her plan was that she gave the cop

728
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 8: of the detailed plan, because I have a hard time

729
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 8: imagining she can give a detailed plan for anything. So

730
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 8: it's fascinating.

731
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: You know, and as is not according to reports her

732
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: first time at the rodeo. Take a listen to hour

733
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: cut five from Crime Online.

734
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 12: At one court hearing concerning financials, Wolcott's attorney said he

735
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 12: was concerned about how Rimley was spending the two thousand

736
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 12: dollars a month he was giving her. Will Cod found

737
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 12: out that during the marriage, Remley would go to cost Go,

738
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 12: Nordstrum and other stores, make purchases using credit cards, and

739
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,919
Speaker 12: then would turn right around and take the items back

740
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 12: for a cash rEFInd. After they were separated, Wolcott discovered

741
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 12: Rimley used this method just stockpile money.

742
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 4: Wow, and that's all the way back in the Woolcott marriage.

743
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if I would call this justice,

744
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: But to all those ex boyfriends, ex fiancees and ex husbands,

745
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: when this woman walks out of jail in about two

746
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: and a half years, hide, hide, be afraid, be very afraid.

747
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,720
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,