1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 2: I'm Tracy V. 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 2: Right after I got back from that trip to Philadelphia 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 2: to see that Marine Laura sign exhibit, there were some 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: headlines about a measles outbreak happening there, and then right 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 2: at the same time also warnings about a potential measles 9 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: exposure for travelers who had passed through Dulles or Reagan 10 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 2: Airports in Washington, d C. So measles was declared eliminated 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: in the United States more than twenty years ago, meaning 12 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 2: that there is no longer sustained transmission of the disease 13 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 2: happening here. But outbreaks do obviously still happen. They're usually 14 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 2: related to travel to and from places where it's a 15 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: lot more common. Outbreaks can spread really quickly if they 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 2: reach an area where a lot of people are unvaccinated. So, 17 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: of course I do not like that there are measles 18 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 2: outbreaks happening anywhere. It's a highly contagious virus. It can 19 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 2: put people in the hospital. An estimated one hundred and 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 2: thirty six thousand people died of it worldwide in twenty 21 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: twenty three, and in the years just before vaccines for 22 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: it became widely available, measles killed an estimated two point 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 2: six million people around the world every year. Uh but 24 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: as a vaccinated person living in a highly vaccinated area, 25 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,199 Speaker 2: I am not at a lot of risk for measles myself. 26 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: So these headlines for me, they sparked more curiosity than fear, 27 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: and they also reminded me a little bit of the 28 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: things that led me to write an episode on scarlet 29 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: fever last year. People seem to really like the scarlet 30 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: Fever episode, so I thought I would take a look 31 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: at the history of measles heads up. They we will 32 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: have just a little bit of questionable slash unethical research 33 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 2: stuff happening this episode, and a tiny bit about ways 34 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: that we used to inoculate people that's potentially gross. Neither 35 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 2: of these are very long discussions, but they are there. 36 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: In the US, there are two different diseases that are 37 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: commonly called measles. One caused by the measles morbilivirus also 38 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: called rubiola, is usually just called measles. The other is 39 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: caused by the rubella virus, and it is sometimes called 40 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: German measles. These diseases have some similar symptoms, and they're 41 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: both targeted by the measles mumps rubella or MMR vaccine, 42 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: which is used in much of the world. But measles 43 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 1: and German measles are different illnesses caused by different viruses. 44 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: This episode is primarily about the one caused by measles morbilivirus, 45 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: although German measles will come up occasionally as we're talking 46 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: this through. The virus that causes measles is highly contagious. 47 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: Between eighty five and ninety percent of people who are 48 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: exposed to it and are not already immune will contract it. 49 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: It's also something that can spread really easily before people 50 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: realize they have it. Measles causes a characteristic rash, but 51 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: it is also contagious for up to four days before 52 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: that rash actually appears, and before that happens, people might 53 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: just think they have something like a cold. In most cases, 54 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: it takes about two weeks between exposure to measles and 55 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: the development of that rash, and the virus can linger 56 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: in the air and on surfaces for a couple of hours. 57 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: This can make outbreaks really challenging to track, since health 58 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: officials have to try to piece together who a person 59 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: had contact with about two weeks before, or who may 60 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: have moved through a space that person had even briefly 61 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: been in day. 62 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: That's why these warnings about Dulles and Reagan Airports were 63 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: on specific days for like a six sish hour window 64 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 2: when a person might have been exposed had they gone 65 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: through there. If you are Hollies in my age or younger, 66 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: and you're from the United States or Europe, which is 67 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: most of our listeners, you probably have not seen a 68 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 2: case of the measles in person, even though it has 69 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 2: become more common in these places over the last several years. 70 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: And as is the case with a lot of illnesses, 71 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: there is some variation and exactly what symptoms people experience, 72 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: but most of the time, measles starts with a fever 73 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 2: and cold like symptoms like a running nose and a cough, 74 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 2: possibly accompanied by pink eye. Most people, but not all, 75 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: then develop white spots in their mouth, known as Coplic spots. 76 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 2: These are named after American physician Henry Koplick, who first 77 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 2: described them in eighteen ninety six. Then that's followed by 78 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 2: the rash, which usually starts on the face and the neck, 79 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 2: and then progresses to the rest of the body. On 80 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 2: people with light skin, this rash is usually red and flat, 81 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: although there may also be raised bumps. The rash can 82 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 2: be harder to see on people who have darker skins. 83 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: Sometimes it appears as a darker shade of that person's 84 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 2: regular skin color. Usually the person's fever spikes after the 85 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 2: rash develops, and the rash usually peels as it goes away. 86 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: There's no treatment for measles. It's just rest, supportive care 87 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: and treatment of specific symptoms if needed, like oatmeal bass 88 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: if a person's rash is itchy, which it may or 89 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: may not be. 90 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 2: Obviously, this is not medical advice. If you think you 91 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: have measles. 92 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: See darker. 93 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 2: Most people recover from measles without any apparent issues, but 94 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 2: there's increasing evidence that the virus causes immune system damage 95 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 2: that can last for at least two years. This is 96 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: described as immune amnesia, meaning the body kind of forgets 97 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,799 Speaker 2: how to fight pathogens that it previously knew how to handle, 98 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 2: and between five percent and fifteen percent of people who 99 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 2: contract measles also develop some kind of more immediate complication. 100 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 2: Some of these are relatively mild like, since measles can 101 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 2: lower a person's resistance to other pathogens. Ear infections and 102 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 2: sinus infections are common, but others are more acutely serious, 103 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 2: like pneumonia and inflammation of the internal organs, including the heart. 104 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 2: One of the most serious complications of measles is encephalitis, 105 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 2: or inflammation of the brain, which can develop weeks after 106 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 2: a person seems to have recovered. This is fatal in 107 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: ten to fifteen percent of people who develop it, and 108 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: it can also cause long term issues like seizures and 109 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 2: cognitive disabilities. There is also a very rare fatal complication 110 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: of the central nervous system called subacute sclerosing panacephalitis, which 111 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: can develop seven to ten year years after recovering from measles. 112 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: Measles can also be particularly dangerous during pregnancy, and that 113 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 2: includes carrying a risk of low birth weight, pregnancy loss, 114 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 2: and stillbirth. German measles or rebella, is also particularly dangerous 115 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 2: during pregnancy, and congenital rebella syndrome is associated with heart problems, 116 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 2: hearing loss, developmental delays, and other issues. Today, measles outbreaks 117 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: in wealthy countries make a lot of headlines but that 118 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 2: isn't where measles is most common. There's a very effective 119 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 2: vaccine for measles, one that's about ninety six percent effective 120 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: with two doses, with that immunity lasting for a person's 121 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: whole life. So places that have a robust healthcare system 122 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: with broad vaccine coverage aren't likely to see huge outbreaks 123 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: of measles, and even if there are outbreaks in communities 124 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: that have religious or cultural or philosophical objections to vaccines, 125 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: health officials are more likely to be able to respond 126 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: to them effectively. But places without that infrastructure, without the 127 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 2: resources to coordinate widespread vaccination campaigns, and places that are 128 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 2: experiencing some kind of civic unrest or war are a 129 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 2: lot more likely to see large outbreaks of measles and 130 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: also less likely to be able to respond to them effectively. 131 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: People who are already malnourished or sick, or aren't able 132 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 2: to get enough food or water or rest while they're 133 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 2: recovering are just more likely to develop measles complications. This 134 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 2: means mortality rates from measles can really vary from country 135 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: to country, with the countries that are facing the most 136 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:45,119 Speaker 2: poverty and unrest seeing the worst outcomes from measles, so globally, 137 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 2: measles is still a leading cause of childhood death. So 138 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: that is the basics of measles, and we're going to 139 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: get into more about its history after we pause for 140 00:08:54,559 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 2: a sponsor break. Measles more bili viruses than the pyramics. 141 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 2: The virus family of viruses, and that also includes the 142 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 2: viruses that cause para influenza, mumps and rsv rsv I 143 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 2: feel like has been in the headlines so much over 144 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 2: the last few years. That stands for respiratory sensicial virus. 145 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,479 Speaker 2: This family also includes a number of viruses that primarily 146 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 2: affect animals, including the viruses that cause canine distemper and 147 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 2: render pest. Two prevailing theories about the origin of measles 148 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: have been that it evolved from canine distemper as people 149 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 2: started domesticating dogs, or that it diverged from render pest 150 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 2: as people started domesticating cattle. Measles morbilivirus is most closely 151 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: related to render pest, and most of the recent research 152 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 2: into this has focused on render pest. Render pest was 153 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 2: declared eradicated in twenty eleven, and we are going to 154 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 2: have our episode on that as an upcoming Saturday Classic. 155 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: A lot of this research into the question of exactly 156 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 2: where measles came from and when has involved molecular clock analysis. 157 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 2: That's basically looking at mutations over time to try to 158 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 2: pinpoint when two organisms diverged from one another. Studies conducted 159 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 2: in the twenty teens concluded that measles diverged from render 160 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: past quite recently, it's just the eleventh or twelfth century CE, 161 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 2: but then research published in twenty twenty suggests that it 162 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: was centuries earlier than that, possibly as early as the 163 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 2: sixth century BCE. A lot of papers written in the 164 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 2: twenty teens framed the idea of like the eleventh or 165 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 2: twelfth century divergence of measles is basically settled knowledge, but 166 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: then that twenty twenty research called that timeline into question. 167 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: This, of course, makes it tricky to pin down some 168 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: of the early history of measles. There are a lot 169 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: of illnesses that cause fever and a rash, and a 170 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: lot of historical accounts just aren't specific enough to say 171 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: for sure whether they're describing smallpox, scarlet fever, measles, or 172 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: something else. Measles is one of the diseases that has 173 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: been proposed as the cause of the Antonine plague, also 174 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: called the plague of Galen, which took place between the 175 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: years one sixty five to one eighty CE. If measles 176 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: didn't diverge from render pest until the eleventh century, it 177 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 1: couldn't have been the cause. But if that divergence really 178 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: took place around the sixth century BCE, it could have been. 179 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: There are also clinical descriptions of measles that date back 180 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: to before the eleventh or twelfth centuries. The most well 181 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: known is by Abu Baker Mohammad ibn Zakaria. Al Razi, 182 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: known in some Western accounts as Ross Alrazi, was a 183 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: physician during the Islamic Golden Age. He lived from about 184 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: eight sixty four to nine thirty five CE. Alrazi wrote 185 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: at least two hundred medical and philosophical tree, including his 186 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: Catab Alhawi, or Comprehensive Book on Medicine, and one of 187 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: these treatises was a treatise on smallpox and measles. 188 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 2: This is the first known medical text to clearly differentiate 189 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 2: between these two diseases. 190 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: Of course, this was also written during a time when 191 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: medicine was focused on the idea of humors and keeping 192 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: those humors in balance. So Alrasi's thoughts on the causes 193 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: of smallpox and measles don't align with today's evidence based 194 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: ideas of medicine. As translated into English in the nineteenth century, 195 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: he wrote, quote, every man, from the time of his 196 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: birth till he arrives at old age is continually tending 197 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: to dryness. And for this reason the blood of children 198 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: and infants is much moister than the blood of young men, 199 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: and still more so than that of old men. Now 200 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: the smallpox arises when the blood putrefies and ferments so 201 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: that the superfluous vapors are thrown out of it, and 202 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: it is changed from the blood of infants, which is 203 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: like must, into the blood of young men, which is 204 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: like wine perfectly ripened. And the smallpox itself may be 205 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: compared to the fermentation and the hissing noise which take 206 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: place in must at that time. 207 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 2: So this offered an explanation for why it seemed like 208 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 2: most people contracted smallpox before reaching adulthood, because under this 209 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 2: arose from the process of transforming the blood from the 210 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: blood of a child into the blood of an adult. 211 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 2: He thought adults were only likely to contract smallpox if 212 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 2: they were exposed to quote pestilential, putrid, and malignant constitutions 213 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 2: of the air in which this disease is chiefly prevalent. 214 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 2: He also claims that quote bodies that are lean, bilious, hot, 215 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 2: and dry are more disposed to the measles than to 216 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 2: the smallpox, and quote when the summer is excessively hot 217 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 2: and dry, and the autumn is also hot and dry, 218 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 2: and the rains come very late, then the measles quickly 219 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 2: seize those who are disposed to them, that is, those 220 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 2: who are of a hot, lean, and bilious habit of body. 221 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 2: In terms of symptoms, Selrazi wrote that quote inquietude, nausea, 222 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 2: and anxiety are far more frequent in the measles, and 223 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 2: he recommended treatments for measles that included barley water mixed 224 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 2: with acid, pomegranate juice, as well as expectorants to make 225 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 2: it easier for people to cough up any chest congestion. 226 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 2: But Arazi also understood that smallpox was a more serious 227 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 2: disease than measles, and a lot of this volume is 228 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 2: devoted to recommendations for the treatment of smallpox, regardless of 229 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: the questions around exactly when measles may have diverged from 230 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: render pest. It was clearly widespread in Europe, Northern Africa, 231 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 2: and much of Asia by the medieval period, especially in 232 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 2: places where cities were large enough to sustain ongoing epidemics. 233 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 2: Measles was introduced into the Americas through colonization in the 234 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 2: fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. Although smallpox gets a lot of 235 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: the focus in terms of introduced diseases and their devastating 236 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 2: impact on the continent's indigenous peoples, other diseases, including measles, 237 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 2: proved to be deadly as well. There were huge deadly 238 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 2: measles outbreaks described in Cuba, Honduras, and Brazil in the 239 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 2: fifteen twenties and thirties. The first written record of an 240 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 2: outbreak in North America was in Boston in sixteen fifty seven. 241 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 2: A lot of medical writing in Europe and North America 242 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 2: in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries focused on both measles 243 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 2: and smallpox, as al Razi had done back in the 244 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: ninth century. Doctors and other researchers wrote about how to 245 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 2: tell these two diseases apart, and how to treat each 246 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 2: of them. One example is Englishman Thomas Sydenham, who had 247 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 2: a chapter on the measles in his sixteen ninety three 248 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 2: complete Works, which was followed by a chapter on smallpox. 249 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 2: Sydonham's description of measles is thorough, describing it as generally 250 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 2: attacked children with chills, followed by fever, loss of appetite, 251 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 2: running eyes and nose. And then on the fourth day 252 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 2: or the fifth quote, there appear on the face and 253 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 2: forehead small red spots, very like the bites of fleas. 254 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 2: These increase in number and cluster together so as to 255 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 2: mark the face with large red blotches. They are formed 256 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: by small papules so slightly elevated above the skin that 257 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 2: their prominence can hardly be detected by the eye, but 258 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 2: can just be felt by passing the fingers lightly along 259 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: the skin. The spots take hold on the face first, 260 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 2: from which they spread to the chest and belly, and 261 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: afterwards to the legs and ankles. On these parts may 262 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 2: be seen broad red macule on but not above the 263 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: level of the skin. This is so much more detailed 264 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 2: than so many ancient historical texts that are sort of 265 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 2: like the Great plague passed through the town, bringing a 266 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 2: rash and death and it's like, okay, what rash though. 267 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: Them. 268 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 2: Goes on to describe the way that this rash developed 269 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 2: over the days that followed, and then made recommendations for treatment, 270 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 2: including syrups of violet and maiden hair and a draft 271 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 2: made of black cherry water and syrup of poppies for 272 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 2: use at night. He also recommended bleeding for patients who 273 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 2: developed diarrhea after the rest of the disease had resolved. 274 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 2: In seventeen forty, German physician Friedrich Hoffmann differentiated rubiola from 275 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 2: rubella or German measles. It's not entirely clear whether the 276 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 2: German moniker came from the diseases description in German medical texts, 277 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 2: or if it's from the Latin germanus meaning similar. In 278 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 2: seventeen fifty seven, Scottish physician Francis Holme tried to develop 279 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 2: a vaccine for measles. He was inspired by the use 280 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 2: of variolation to prevent smallpox. That is, intentionally exposing someone 281 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 2: to smallpox in a more controlled way, with the goal 282 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 2: of giving them a milder case of the disease that 283 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 2: would leave them immune to it. Later. In Holmes's words, 284 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 2: quote considering how destructive this disease is in some seasons, 285 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 2: considering how many die, even in the mildest epidemical constitution, 286 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 2: considering how it hurts the lungs and eyes, I thought 287 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 2: I should do no small service to mankind if I 288 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 2: could render this disease more mild and safe, in the 289 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 2: same way as the Turks have taught us to mitigate 290 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 2: the smallpox. Here's the potentially gross bit, So hit that 291 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 2: skip ahead button if you are particularly squeamish. Smallpox produces sores, 292 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 2: and variolation involved introducing matter from those sores into another 293 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 2: person's skin, but a measle's rash doesn't produce anything comparable 294 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: that could be used in this way. So Home tried 295 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 2: to use the blood of sick patients to expose other people. Obviously, 296 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: there are other bloodborne diseases, so this is not aut 297 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 2: a medically safe thing to do, and people were hesitant 298 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 2: to try it at the time. In Homes's words quote 299 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 2: from the prejudices of mankind, I found it difficult to 300 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 2: get the blood as I wanted it, and much more 301 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 2: difficult to find subjects for inoculation. Okay, this was the 302 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 2: reasonable concern. It's like fancy that h Holmes experiments with 303 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 2: measles inoculation. They were limited. It's maybe fifteen total people 304 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 2: he tried this on, and they weren't particularly successful. Those 305 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 2: who did get sick with what seemed like it could 306 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 2: have been measles generally had a mild case of it, 307 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 2: but some of them later contracted measles from some other exposure. 308 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 2: Others did not get sick from Holmes's attempt to expose them. 309 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 2: But this experiment did lead Home to conclude that measles 310 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 2: was definitely caused by some sort of contagion, one that 311 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 2: could be carried in the blood in sufficient quantities to 312 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 2: cause the disease in another person, not by something like 313 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 2: miasma's or bad air, which was still a common idea 314 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 2: at the time. As we said earlier, measles is incredibly contagious, 315 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 2: and that can make it difficult to track the progression 316 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 2: of an outbreak. But in the nineteenth century, an outbreak 317 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 2: started in a remote location and researchers were able to 318 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 2: gain some insights by tracking how it moved, and we're 319 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 2: going to talk more about that after a sponsor break. 320 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 2: By the end of the nineteenth century, measles had been 321 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 2: introduced to virtually the entire world, including northwest North America 322 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 2: in the early nineteenth century, Australia and New Zealand in 323 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 2: the eighteen fifties, and more distant Pacific islands in the 324 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 2: late nineteenth century. In places where measles was already endemic, 325 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 2: there were typically major outbreaks every few years, so the 326 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 2: disease usually affected children under the age of five because 327 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 2: virtually everybody else still living had already gotten it in 328 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 2: an earlier outbreak. Babies also had some protection in their 329 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 2: first months of life due to antibodies that they got 330 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 2: in utero, but in virgin soil epidemics, meaning that when 331 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 2: the virus was introduced to places where nobody was immune, 332 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 2: the disease affected virtually everybody at the same time, no 333 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 2: matter their age. One such outbreak took place in the 334 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 2: Faroe Islands in the North Atlantic between Norway and Iceland 335 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 2: in eighteen forty six. It wasn't technically a virgin soil 336 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: epidemic since there had been an earlier outbreak in the 337 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 2: islands in seventeen eighty one, but the vast majority of 338 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 2: the island's residents had not been born when that earlier 339 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: epidemic took place. There were seven eight hundred sixty four 340 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 2: people living in the Faroe Islands in eighteen forty six, 341 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 2: and about sixty one hundred contracted measles. In this epidemic, 342 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 2: one hundred seventy people died, for a mortality rate of 343 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 2: about two point eight percent. The government of Denmark sent 344 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 2: physician and pathologists Peter Ludvigpayanum to the islands to try 345 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 2: to control the outbreak, and he personally treated about one 346 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 2: thousand of the sixty one hundred people who became ill, 347 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 2: and he also studied how the disease spread through the islands. 348 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 2: Unlike in a city where there are a lot of 349 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 2: people living very close together, continually interacting with people from 350 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 2: other neighborhoods through things like work and school and errands, 351 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 2: the pharaoh Islands were made up of small villages on 352 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 2: a collection of islands that were largely isolated from one another. 353 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 2: People did travel between the different villages and the different islands, 354 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,479 Speaker 2: or people from multiple villages might all come together for 355 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 2: some reason, but this was not just like a continual 356 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 2: daily occurrence. 357 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: Paynham pinpointed how measles was introduced to the Pharaohs in 358 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: eighteen forty six writing quote. The first person on the 359 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: Pharaohs who took the measles was a cabinet maker now 360 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: living in Thorsham. He left Copenhagen on the twentieth of 361 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: March and reached Thorsham on the twenty eighth. On the way, 362 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: he had felt quite well, but was attacked by measles 363 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: early in April, on what day he did not know. 364 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: Shortly before his departure, he had visited some measles patients 365 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: in Copenhagen. About fourteen days later, his two nearest associates 366 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: were attacked, so. 367 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 2: Painam acknowledged that these men's accounts weren't entirely accurate, like 368 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 2: one of them was saying, I don't remember what day 369 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: this started, and they were also just trying to reconstruct 370 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 2: where they had been two weeks previously. But their description 371 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 2: of the basic timeline quote determined me to give attention 372 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 2: in my travels about the islands to the length of 373 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 2: the stage of incubation. 374 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: Paynam was able to identify the index case in fifty 375 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: two villages in the Faroe Islands, that is, the first 376 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,719 Speaker 1: person to develop measles. From there, he traced when and 377 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 1: where they had been exposed to the disease, and how 378 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: long it had taken other people in their village to 379 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: get sick. With these observs, he narrowed down the illness's 380 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 1: incubation period to about fourteen days on average. That was 381 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 1: a far more precise estimate than had been in use before. 382 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 2: He also found that there were ninety eight people in 383 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 2: the islands over the age of sixty five who had 384 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 2: survived that earlier seventeen eighty one outbreak. None of those 385 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 2: ninety eight people got measles in eighteen forty six. There 386 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 2: were already doctors and others who thought that people were 387 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 2: immune to measles after recovering from it, but there were 388 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: also various reports of people getting it a second time. 389 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 2: So Paydam thought that what he observed in the Faral 390 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 2: Islands outbreak offered clear evidence that there really was lifelong 391 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,719 Speaker 2: immunity to measles. So he thought that these other reports 392 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 2: where people seem to have gotten measles more than once, 393 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 2: the people involved may have actually contracted some other illness. 394 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 2: Painam reported one village in which people believed a midwife 395 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 2: had carried measles. She herself had previously had it in Debat, 396 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 2: but she had spent several days taking care of measles 397 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: patients and everyone she came into contact with. In the 398 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 2: next village she visited developed measles fourteen days later. That 399 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 2: included the girl who laundered the clothes that the midwife 400 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,719 Speaker 2: had been wearing. Painam's account included a list of communities 401 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 2: that were spared from measles because they had kept a 402 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 2: strict quarantine. About fifteen hundred residents of the island's avoided 403 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 2: measles because their communities cut off all contact with the 404 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 2: ones where measles was circulating. This outbreak happened just as 405 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 2: European medicine was starting to move toward the germ theory 406 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 2: of disease, and there was still debate about exactly what 407 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 2: caused measles. Painam's report on this outbreak concluded, quote, if 408 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 2: among six thousand cases of which I myself observed and 409 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 2: treated about one thousand, not one was found in which 410 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 2: it would be justifiable on any grounds whatever to suppose 411 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 2: a miismatic origin of measles, because it was absolutely clear 412 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,239 Speaker 2: that the disease was transmitted from man to man and 413 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 2: from village to village by contagion, whether the latter was 414 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 2: received by immediate contact with a patient, or was conveyed 415 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 2: to the infected person by clothes or the like. It 416 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 2: is certainly reasonable, at least to entertain a considerable degree 417 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 2: of doubt as to the miismatic nature of the disease. 418 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 2: By the early twentieth century, researchers had concluded that measles 419 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 2: was caused not by just some contagion, but specifically a virus, 420 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,199 Speaker 2: and they were trying to learn about and isolate it. 421 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 2: That finally happened in nineteen fifty four, when John F 422 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 2: Enders and Thomas C. Peebles collected samples from patients during 423 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 2: a measle's outbreak in Boston. They isolated the virus from 424 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 2: samples collected from an eleven year old patient named David Edmonston. 425 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 2: The next step was to try to weaken or attenuate 426 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 2: this virus into a form that would confer immunity to 427 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 2: measles without making the people who received it sick. Enders, 428 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 2: Peebles and their collaborators went through a process that involved 429 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 2: human kidney cells, human amniotic cells, and chicken eggs. Researchers 430 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 2: tested the vaccines on monkeys before moving on to human trials, 431 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 2: and the first humans they tested the vaccine on were themselves. 432 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: This is probably more of a safety check because presumably 433 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 2: all of them at this point had already had measles 434 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 2: when they were children. In October of nineteen fifty eight, 435 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 2: the team tested their vaccine on eleven children, and all 436 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 2: of them developed antibodies to measles morbilivirus, but nine of 437 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 2: them also developed a rash, and they did not want 438 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 2: this vaccine to cause any kind of illness in people, 439 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 2: so after working to further attenuate the virus, the team 440 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 2: started larger trials in the nineteen sixties. 441 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: There are ethical questions around these larger trials. Some of 442 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 1: them were carried out at institutions for disabled children, the 443 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: Walter E. Fernald State School in Waltham, Massachusetts, and Willow 444 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: School in Staten Island, New York. Both of these institutions 445 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: were also home to research that was obviously and inherently unethical. 446 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: This included children at Fernaud State School being fed oatmeal 447 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: containing radioactive trackers in the late nineteen forties and early 448 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, and children at Willowbrook being intentionally given hepatitis 449 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties and sixties to study the progression 450 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: of the disease and efficacy of gamma globulin injections. Neither 451 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 1: of these studies had the potential to benefit the children involved, 452 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: and the full nature of the experiments was not explained 453 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: to the parents who gave permission for their children to participate. 454 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: So these early measles trials were conducted on an inherently 455 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: very vulnerable population and a group that doctors often perceived 456 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: as less than human at institutions that were also already 457 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: involved in unethical research. That said, there were a couple 458 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: of different between those studies and the measles vaccine trials. 459 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: Being immune to measles would benefit the children involved. Since 460 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: they lived in close quarters with other children in facilities 461 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: where disease outbreaks were common, they were at an even 462 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: greater risk for measles than a lot of other kids 463 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: would be. A severe measles outbreak had started at Willowbrook 464 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: in the spring of nineteen sixty and so the vaccine 465 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: was given to children who were actively at risk from 466 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: this ongoing outbreak, and Enders and the rest of his 467 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: collaborators seemed to have been ahead of their time around 468 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: ideas of informed consent, explaining the vaccine to the parents 469 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: getting their permission and administering the vaccine only when that 470 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: permission was actually given. Other trials were carried out in 471 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: Nigeria through the University of Ibadan. At that time, the 472 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: university hospital was seeing more than one thousand measles cases 473 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: annually with a mortality rate of about percent, so measles 474 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: was a particular threat there as well. One phase of 475 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: these trials was on the children of the university's faculty 476 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: and staff, who were invited to participate. 477 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 2: The trials in the US and Nigeria demonstrated that this 478 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 2: vaccine was highly effective at preventing measles, and it was 479 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 2: licensed for use in the US on March twenty first, 480 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three. A team led by Maurice Hillman developed 481 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 2: a more attenuated version of the vaccine in nineteen sixty eight. 482 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 2: This more attenuated strain became known as the Edmonston Enders strain, 483 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 2: and it ultimately became the only measles vaccine distributed in 484 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 2: the US. 485 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: The development of a measles vaccine marked something of a 486 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: shift in how vaccines were approached in most of the world. 487 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: Prior to this, the focus had been on diseases that 488 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: were extremely serious and deadly, including smallpox and polio, but 489 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: especially in the US and Europe, measles had come to 490 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: be seen as a root disease of childhood and not 491 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: a deadly scourge that needed to be stopped. On top 492 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: of that, people typically only got measles once in their lives, 493 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: and many people had fears about the safety of the vaccine, 494 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: as has been the case with every vaccine, so this 495 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: made it harder for health officials to convince people to 496 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: have their children vaccinated. But even with those challenges, measles 497 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: cases dropped dramatically in the United States after the start 498 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: of a coordinated vaccine campaign. In nineteen sixty seven, there 499 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: were four hundred and fifty thousand cases of measles reported 500 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: in the US. It was a reportable disease. 501 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 2: Health officials were required to report all the cases, but 502 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty eight, just a year later, there were 503 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 2: only twenty two thousand. But there were also some clear 504 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 2: disparities and who had access to this vaccine. It was 505 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 2: mostly being administered by doctors who were working in private practice, 506 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 2: meaning that most of the people who were getting it 507 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 2: were middle or upper class. So while the total number 508 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 2: of measles cases dropped precipitously, cases became really clustered among 509 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 2: the populations that were underserved by the medical community, including 510 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 2: non white communities and people living in poorer areas. It 511 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 2: did not take long after the introduction of measles vaccines 512 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 2: for nations to start looking at the idea of eliminating 513 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 2: the virus entirely, especially as it became clear that the 514 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 2: vaccine conferred long term immunity, and initially researchers thought it 515 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 2: might be possible to eradicate measles if as little as 516 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 2: fifty five percent of the population was vaccinated. That turned 517 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 2: out to be way too low a target. Measles is 518 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 2: so contagious that roughly ninety to ninety five percent of 519 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 2: the population needs to be immune to keep it from spreading, 520 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,479 Speaker 2: but nations started efforts to eliminate the disease pretty quickly. 521 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy eight, the US Centers for Disease Control 522 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 2: announced a plan to eliminate measles in the US by 523 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty two. That did not happen, but the number 524 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 2: of measles cases in the US did drop another eighty 525 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 2: percent between nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty one. That was 526 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 2: so ambitious of a goal to me, especially considering like 527 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 2: living through however, many years of like COVID nineteen pandemic response, 528 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 2: the idea of like, we're going to eliminate this in 529 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 2: three years, and like that's wild. 530 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: Uh. 531 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety eight, though, efforts to eradicate measles worldwide 532 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 2: faced a huge setback when The Lancet published an article 533 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: by Andrew Wakefield and various co authors which claimed that 534 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 2: the measles mumps rubella or MMR vaccine caused a form 535 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 2: of colitis that then caused autism. This paper was not 536 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 2: just wrong, it was fraudulent, and Wakefield had been funded 537 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 2: by an attorney who was representing parents who were trying 538 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 2: to sue vaccine manufacturers. The Lancet retracted this article in 539 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 2: twenty eleven after in depth reporting on the many many 540 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 2: problems with it, and Wakefield was ultimately struck from the 541 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 2: medical register in the UK. Numerous follow up studies since 542 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 2: then have concluded that there's no link between the MMR 543 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 2: vaccine and autism, and autism advocates have also noted that 544 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 2: it's extremely offensive to suggest that it's better to risk 545 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 2: a potentially fatal disease than to be autistic. Measles was 546 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 2: declared eliminated in the United States in the year two thousand, 547 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 2: but there have been outbreaks since then when measles has 548 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,919 Speaker 2: been reintroduced from other places. One of the most high 549 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 2: profile outbreaks was connected to Disneyland in California. The first 550 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 2: case of measles associated with this outbreak was reported to 551 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 2: the California Department of Public Health on January fifth, twenty fifteen. 552 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 2: Four other measles cases were reported to the department on 553 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,760 Speaker 2: the same day, and two were reported in Utah. Everyone 554 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,280 Speaker 2: involved had been to Disneyland or a neighboring park between 555 00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 2: December seventeenth and twentieth, twenty fourteen. Most cases involved in 556 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 2: this outbreak were in southern California, but there were also 557 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 2: cases in sixteen other states, Canada, and Mexico. Under vaccination 558 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 2: was cited as a key factor in this outbreak. Of 559 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 2: the unvaccinated patients in California, twelve were infants who were 560 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 2: too young to be vaccinated, but almost seventy percent of 561 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 2: the patients who got it and were eligible for the 562 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 2: vaccine had not been vaccinated because of their personal beliefs. 563 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 2: This outbreak contributed to the passage of a law in 564 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 2: California that removed personal beliefs as a reason for people 565 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 2: to be exempt from vaccine requirements to attend schools and 566 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 2: daycares in California. 567 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: On September twenty seventh, twenty sixteen, the Pan American Health 568 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: Organization declared measles to be eliminated in the Americas, but 569 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: this only lasted for a couple of years. Venezuela lost 570 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: its measles free status in twenty eighteen and Brazil in 571 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen in the wake of civil unrest and an 572 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: anti vaccine movement. 573 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 2: I'm just sort of continually waiting for the US also 574 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 2: to lose its measles free status, because we just keep 575 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 2: on having outbreaks and at some point they're they're going 576 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 2: to call it stopped. According to a report from the 577 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,399 Speaker 2: Centers for Disease Control, as of twenty twenty two, there 578 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 2: were eighty three countries around the world that have achieved 579 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 2: measles free status, most of them in the Americas and Europe. 580 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 2: But deaths from measles also increased forty percent worldwide in 581 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, with epidemics in thirty seven countries. That 582 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 2: is up from twenty two countries that experienced outbreak the 583 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 2: year before. In January of twenty twenty four, the World 584 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,720 Speaker 2: Health Organization warned of a sharp uptick in measles cases 585 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 2: in Europe, with thirty thousand cases reported in forty of 586 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 2: the European region's World Health Organization members states. That is 587 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 2: up from less than one thousand cases in twenty twenty two. 588 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 2: The European Center for Disease Prevention and Control reported that 589 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two, only eighty nine point seven percent 590 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 2: of people in Europe had had their second dose of vaccine, 591 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,800 Speaker 2: that is below the level needed to maintain heard immunity. 592 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,760 Speaker 2: Health officials in various parts of the world has cited 593 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 2: the COVID nineteen pandemic is a big reason for this 594 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 2: increase in measles cases in epidemics, both because of people 595 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 2: not having access to routine medical appointments in the first 596 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 2: years of the pandemic and being fearful of going to 597 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 2: those appointments once they were available, and because of increasing 598 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 2: vaccine hesitancy in connection to the rollout of COVID nineteen vaccines. 599 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 2: There's also some conjecture about the impact that the SARS 600 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 2: CoV two virus, which causes COVID nineteen has had on 601 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 2: the immune system, and whether it is similar to the 602 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 2: immune amnesia that can follow measles infection. But there's a 603 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,240 Speaker 2: pretty clear connection between an overall drop in vaccination rates 604 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 2: and increasing rates of measles. Yeah, we're still very early 605 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 2: in understanding long term effects of COVID nineteen on the body, 606 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 2: but the like, there's just obvious lines that can be 607 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 2: drawn in decreasing numbers of people who were fully vaccinated 608 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 2: for measles and increasing numbers of measles cases. It is 609 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 2: absolutely a disease that is possible to eradicate around the world. 610 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 2: But only but you gotta participate. Yeah, only with everyone vaccinated. 611 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, do you have contagious listener, ma'am? 612 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 2: I have listener mail. I would not call it contagious. 613 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 2: It is about healthcare though. 614 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: Uh. 615 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 2: This is from Judy and Judy's subject line made me laugh. 616 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 2: It says you made me realize I'm old, not a 617 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 2: bad thing. In relation to mammograms, uh. And Judy wrote, 618 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 2: Dear Holly and Tracy, listening to the mammogram episode in 619 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 2: your Friday comments, I was amused by your amazement of 620 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 2: the changes in your lifetime then I started thinking and 621 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 2: realizing that I am too. I'm in my seventies and 622 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 2: remember when mammograms could not only squish your breasts but 623 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 2: cause burns from the X rays if the tech wasn't 624 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 2: careful and the texts were usually males back then then 625 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 2: you had to wait for days, sometimes weeks to get results. 626 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 2: The new digital machines with mostly lovely female texts as 627 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 2: a joy. Some differences with PAP exams actually general medical 628 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 2: interactions for women. Now I now I'm thinking I should 629 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 2: make lists of things I've seen changed, usually for the better, 630 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 2: in my lifetime. It could be scary fun by the way. 631 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 2: This includes color TVs, email, walkman CDs and audio books, 632 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 2: a great thing for gardening, and backup cameras in cars. 633 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 2: All in all, things are better. I hope you can 634 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,879 Speaker 2: make a similar list for your lives. Maybe everyone who 635 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 2: listens should do that and send it to you, and 636 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 2: miss in History could start a new segment changes in 637 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 2: our lives as you trace the technology or organization or person. This, 638 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,280 Speaker 2: of course, is in addition to all the other research 639 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 2: you too. I've attached photos for pet tax in the 640 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 2: vein of history. I have attached a baby picture of JJ, 641 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 2: an abandoned neonate kitten I fostered. The second picture is JJ, 642 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 2: now still in my house as I couldn't give him 643 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 2: up as an eighteen pound cat. Enjoy. Thanks for all 644 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 2: the learning and joy and giving me a new way 645 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 2: to look at the world, Judy, So thank you Judy. 646 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 1: This. 647 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 2: I love this idea. Kitty What a tiny little kitty 648 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 2: cat face reminds me? I mean, my cats we brought 649 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 2: home at a reasonable age to bring kittens home, right, 650 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 2: but this little kitten face really reminds me of their 651 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 2: kitten faces, even though they were a bit bigger than 652 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 2: this one. And then of course this uh, very large 653 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 2: I moved I moved the picture to underneath my window 654 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 2: that it has Holly Holly's face on it. Uh. And 655 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 2: then of course adult black cat reminds me of my 656 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 2: adult black cats, especially because this one is on like 657 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 2: a fluffy bed type thing and we have a very 658 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 2: similar bed that uh. Sometimes kitty cats at my house 659 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,280 Speaker 2: like sometimes not. Uh. So I love these cat pictures. 660 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,280 Speaker 2: I love all these stories. I do think pretty often 661 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 2: having been born and starting to go to school at 662 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 2: an age where there was no email, there was like 663 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 2: prototype email, but like not not in the actual things 664 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 2: that consumers had. 665 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: Actually we did, yeah, we were not using it. 666 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 2: We were not. We were not in the worlds of 667 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 2: universities or the military who were like working on early 668 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,840 Speaker 2: prototypes of what would become the World Wide Web. But like, 669 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 2: you know, having been a kindergartener when there was nobody 670 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 2: was emailing reports home, having not had a cell phone 671 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 2: as a child, carrying quarters to put in the payphone, 672 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 2: being dropped off at the mall, to walk around there 673 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 2: with a quarter to call my mom if I needed 674 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 2: her anyway, I think about these things all the time. 675 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 2: The world has changed so so so much in Holly's 676 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 2: in my lifetimes in memory. So yeah, one of my 677 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,879 Speaker 2: favorite lists of this nature was not a list per se, 678 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:44,879 Speaker 2: but Brian's aunt Beth, who I loved dearly, died three 679 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 2: weeks before her hundredth birthday. Oh goodness, and she was 680 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 2: really sharp and wonderful right to the end. And I 681 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 2: remember and I just had a soft spot for her. 682 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 2: We just I adored that woman. 683 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,799 Speaker 1: And I remember one point when she was in her 684 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:02,320 Speaker 1: early nineties sitting down and talking about everything that existed 685 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,840 Speaker 1: that was common that when she was like you know, 686 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: I know I'm old and that sometimes when I'm in 687 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: the car because she wasn't driving anymore and you and 688 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,560 Speaker 1: Brian are driving, I get very nervous about the speed 689 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,440 Speaker 1: and She's like, I remember when there weren't cars, and 690 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:25,440 Speaker 1: I was like, whoa. Yeah, she was pretty amazing and 691 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,359 Speaker 1: had an encyclopedic knowledge of the area she grew up 692 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: in and of the world, and she was world traveled, 693 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: so she was a great one for that. And I 694 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:37,240 Speaker 1: wish I had written down that entire conversation or recorded it. Yeah, 695 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,360 Speaker 1: but we have lots of great pictures of her doing 696 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,880 Speaker 1: things that I'm like, Aunt Beth is the human encyclopedia 697 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:47,760 Speaker 1: from like the late eighteen hundreds to you know, the 698 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,439 Speaker 1: the I think I forget what year she was born. 699 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:55,759 Speaker 1: I want to say it was nineteen oh four, but 700 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: they lived on a farm, so they did not have 701 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,799 Speaker 1: a lot of modern stuff, so it was little. Yeah, 702 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,280 Speaker 1: she was amazing, amazing. 703 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,400 Speaker 2: It's in my house somewhere, I'm pretty sure a video 704 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 2: of my grandmother and one of her sisters talking about 705 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:18,719 Speaker 2: their childhood being raised in a rural parsonage during the 706 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 2: Great Depression reminds me of that a little bit. So anyway, 707 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 2: Thank you again, Judy for this email. Honestly, I love 708 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 2: this whole idea of thinking of ways that the world 709 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 2: has changed during our lifetimes, and I know that that's 710 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,719 Speaker 2: going to be vastly different recollections for different people with 711 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,799 Speaker 2: different experiences, But thank you so much for sending that 712 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 2: and sharing it with us. If you would like to 713 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,280 Speaker 2: send us some notes about this or any other podcast 714 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,279 Speaker 2: or history podcast at iHeartRadio dot com and we're on 715 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 2: social media's miss and History on Facebook and Instagram and 716 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 2: the thing that used to be Twitter. You can subscribe 717 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 2: to our show on the iHeartRadio app and wherever else 718 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:10,960 Speaker 2: you'd like to get your podcasts. Stuff You Missed in 719 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,719 Speaker 2: History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts 720 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 721 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:20,480 Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows.