Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington, where we are waiting for
Speaker 2: the return of President Biden. He's on his way now
Speaker 2: after his trip to India for the G twenty, of course,
Speaker 2: to stop along the way in Vietnam, where he played
Speaker 2: down claims in a news conference that the US wants
Speaker 2: to isolate China.
Speaker 3: I met with his number two person here and excuse
Speaker 3: me in India today, So it's not like there's a
Speaker 3: crisis if I don't personally speak to me better if
Speaker 3: I did. But I think, look, this is not a criticism,
Speaker 3: it's an observation. He has his hands full right now.
Speaker 2: So where are we in the relationship and what comes
Speaker 2: of this trip. We're joined in studio by miss jem Risco,
Speaker 2: my old colleague now with us in Washington, d C.
Speaker 2: It's great to see you carrying the title Bloomberg News
Speaker 2: White House Senior Reporter. So let's start with the takeaways here,
Speaker 2: and the messaging is the US learning, is the president
Speaker 2: learning new ways to counter China. It was widely noted
Speaker 2: that President She was not in the room for this confab.
Speaker 2: That gave the president free reign to do what he
Speaker 2: needed to do.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, Joe, you know how these summits usually go.
Speaker 4: That's a lot on form and style over substance. And
Speaker 4: I think in terms of that first category, style and form,
Speaker 4: I think he's checking some boxes here. He saw the
Speaker 4: opening China and Russia absent from this summit. He wants
Speaker 4: to move in and kind of appeal to the so
Speaker 4: called Global South countries that have been asking for more
Speaker 4: from this US led coalition. And he did do that.
Speaker 5: He spoke to them.
Speaker 4: He spoke to them in a lot of their own language,
Speaker 4: and he was speaking to China's so called weakness right now.
Speaker 4: It's kind of weakness in its position economically as well
Speaker 4: as potentially politically. So I think that quote kind of
Speaker 4: says it all. He says he has his hands full
Speaker 4: right now talking about President She. That was a not
Speaker 4: so veiled swipe. Also, you know at what they're dealing
Speaker 4: with economically in China and what that means for potentially
Speaker 4: their position of power in the world.
Speaker 2: Even seemed to indicate that it would keep China from
Speaker 2: invading Taiwan.
Speaker 6: That's right.
Speaker 2: So the headline that seems to be resonating here, the
Speaker 2: Communic KAE always comes with a certain amount of angst,
Speaker 2: not much more than this time, though official say they
Speaker 2: worked on this through three hundred hours of meetings. It
Speaker 2: does not single out Russia for its invasion of Ukraine,
Speaker 2: but it does say that there were different views and
Speaker 2: assessments of the situation. What do we take from the
Speaker 2: Communic k Whether you like the writing or not, I
Speaker 2: could read it to you here. All states must refrain
Speaker 2: from the threat or use of force to seek territorial acquisition.
Speaker 2: But for many it just didn't go far enough.
Speaker 4: Yeah, leaning on the UN language there was the safest
Speaker 4: way to go and in order to bring the representatives
Speaker 4: from China and Russia on board for some sort of
Speaker 4: G twenty agreement. Now, remember, over the past couple of years,
Speaker 4: and ever since the war started, really, there have been
Speaker 4: a lot of tie ups in communicate language because the
Speaker 4: US led coalition wanted to say Russia is the aggressor,
Speaker 4: because they said something about sanctions. This time, those two
Speaker 4: components were removed they leaned on that un language, just
Speaker 4: the facts, and they could kind of focus on other things,
Speaker 4: so sort of a short term sacrifice. Of course, Ukraine
Speaker 4: and others not pleased, but the US saw an opening
Speaker 4: to kind of push forward on other issues, and in
Speaker 4: order to do that, they wanted to kind of leave
Speaker 4: the war language to the side for a bit.
Speaker 2: We're spending time with Bloomberg White House reporter Michelle jam Risco,
Speaker 2: Senior reporter, I should say, and it's a perfect time
Speaker 2: for you to join us because you were way ahead
Speaker 2: on this idea of the Global South rising, which is
Speaker 2: something that is now a mainstream part of the conversation.
Speaker 2: It certainly was on display at this G twenty on
Speaker 2: the recent visit to the White House by Prime Minister Modi.
Speaker 2: Now they've each had a visit here and it's really
Speaker 2: changed the conversation as the president in the US try
Speaker 2: to turn away from Russia in China. But it's a
Speaker 2: lot more complicated than that, isn't it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And in our teams, you know, we were looking
Speaker 4: at this before it was cool, Right, it's kind of
Speaker 4: become this big issue of talking about the Global South
Speaker 4: and this tagline what does it mean?
Speaker 2: Actually?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean this is years in the making, but
Speaker 4: you know, people are starting to wake up to the
Speaker 4: fact that powers like India, which is becoming an even
Speaker 4: bigger economic power and certainly a people power most populous
Speaker 4: nation now, powers like India and Vietnam and the others
Speaker 4: are so called swing states. So the US needs to
Speaker 4: kind of convince them on certain issues. They're a bit
Speaker 4: bothered over the last few years, to say it lightly,
Speaker 4: about things like trying to get involved in the US
Speaker 4: China trade war, or sanctions on Russia, or the pandemic.
Speaker 4: You know, they don't see this US led global order
Speaker 4: from post World War two onwards working for them today,
Speaker 4: and they want changes. They want big changes MDB reform,
Speaker 4: they want different trade and investment deals. They want the
Speaker 4: US to show up the table with money, not just
Speaker 4: you know, platitudes and.
Speaker 2: Anything to change that.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think he's talking to talk. Biden was
Speaker 4: seen to be kind of speaking the language, as we
Speaker 4: said earlier, about you know, what does the global South
Speaker 4: want to hear in terms of infrastructure investment deals, in
Speaker 4: terms of MDB reforms. So MDB reform has been one
Speaker 4: of one of the ones that the US has really
Speaker 4: been plugging as a response to these Global South requests.
Speaker 4: And we heard from US Treasury Understructory J. Shamba last
Speaker 4: week leading into the G twenty summit talking about how, yes,
Speaker 4: the IMF and World Bank are going to be looking
Speaker 4: at member quotas giving shareholders more power, so in essence,
Speaker 4: giving Global South countries more say in how that those
Speaker 4: institutions are run and hopefully getting more money toward real
Speaker 4: crisis issues and not just these high fluting issues like
Speaker 4: climate which the MDB's are kind of ill positioned to tackle.
Speaker 2: You can see why she's senior White House reporter for
Speaker 2: Blueberg News. I'm so glad that you're back in the
Speaker 2: Ta Tay to be vacuating. How many years were you there?
Speaker 2: Six years? Amazing and welcome back to you and your family.
Speaker 2: Don't be a stranger here on sound On. Many thanks
Speaker 2: for the insights, Michelle. Jim Risco with us here on
Speaker 2: Bloomberg sound On. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington as we
Speaker 2: add another voice of the conversation. I've been looking forward
Speaker 2: to this as well because the op ed jumped off
Speaker 2: the page in advance of this G twenty. The headline
Speaker 2: from Craig Singleton China's military is going global. He's with
Speaker 2: us now, senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense
Speaker 2: of Democracies. Craig is great to see you. Where to begin?
Speaker 2: As we talked to Michelle about the emerging Global South,
Speaker 2: you seize in your story on what's happening in Cambodia
Speaker 2: at the real naval base, and you point this out
Speaker 2: as the example to start your piece on what China
Speaker 2: is doing from Africa all the way to the South
Speaker 2: China Sea, establishing strategic strong points as they're called, to
Speaker 2: protect trade routes. But is there a lot more to it?
Speaker 2: This is about projecting power, isn't it.
Speaker 7: Craig absolutely, thanks for having me. I mean this impenting
Speaker 7: inauguration of China's what will be their first into Pacific
Speaker 7: military outposts in Cambodia. It just represents a major evolution
Speaker 7: in China's defense posture, you know. But I think beyond ream,
Speaker 7: China is employing all of these innovative asymmetric tactics to
Speaker 7: sort of undercut and offset American military might, and it
Speaker 7: has some pretty serious implications for I think the United
Speaker 7: States and its allies. And you're right, it centers around
Speaker 7: this notion of establishing strategic strong points around key maritime
Speaker 7: choke points and along key trade routes around the world.
Speaker 7: And sometimes those strong points will look like military bases
Speaker 7: like Djibouti and the one that's coming online in Cambodia.
Speaker 7: Other times they might just be agreements that let the
Speaker 7: Chinese pull in their military for refueling. At the end
Speaker 7: of the day, the Chinese are not going to go
Speaker 7: base for base with the United States. What we really
Speaker 7: have to understand as a country, right is the strategic
Speaker 7: intent behind a lot of these moves, and that really
Speaker 7: has to do with confounding and constraining US policy during
Speaker 7: short of war scenarios and even during a contingency over Taiwan.
Speaker 2: How about that. You mentioned Djibouti another example in your column,
Speaker 2: and maybe this is what Cambodia is going to end
Speaker 2: up looking like. It started as a civilian multi purpose port,
Speaker 2: it has evolved into what you describe as a heavily
Speaker 2: fortified base more than two hundred and fifty thousand square
Speaker 2: feet of underground bunkers. What's all that for?
Speaker 8: Who knows?
Speaker 7: I mean, the Chinese have a long track record of
Speaker 7: relying on bunkers at their strategic locations and facilities inside
Speaker 7: of China to hide armaments and nuclear weapons and other ammunitions.
Speaker 7: We just don't know what's really under the hood there,
Speaker 7: and I will probably never know, and a lot of
Speaker 7: that has to do with the lack of transparency that
Speaker 7: the Chinese have shrouded this broader expansion in What we
Speaker 7: really need to be concerned about, I think is that
Speaker 7: a lot of these initial what appeared to be civilian
Speaker 7: projects and places like Djibouti, places like the United Arab Emirates,
Speaker 7: the places like Guada and Pakistan are starting to be
Speaker 7: sort of augmented with military might, you know, tangible military assets.
Speaker 7: And what happens is that the Chinese are going to
Speaker 7: be able to project and influence along these key choke
Speaker 7: points and frankly, I think, potentially prevent us from from
Speaker 7: shifting resources and personnel into China's near periphery in the.
Speaker 8: Event of a contingency.
Speaker 7: And so the Chinese are going to be able to
Speaker 7: build out this network over time that will be a
Speaker 7: lot cheaper, a lot less expensive, and a lot less
Speaker 7: you know, sort of cost prohibitive than our global footprint.
Speaker 7: But they're going to be able to do so in
Speaker 7: a way that actually undermines and undercuts our ability to
Speaker 7: project strength.
Speaker 8: And that's sort of where I think the Chinese are
Speaker 8: heading right now.
Speaker 2: Well, you're right that once commercial projects and the Belton
Speaker 2: Road initiative are now being retrofitted with military assets. Was
Speaker 2: this the purpose of Belt and Road all along? As
Speaker 2: we consider what the Biden administration is trying to pitch
Speaker 2: here at the G twenty as an alternative.
Speaker 7: Michelle was right, it's time for the United States to
Speaker 7: offers alternatives some of these countries who I think are
Speaker 7: eager or perhaps concerned not just about the debt trap
Speaker 7: diplomacy aspect of Belton Road, but also whether some of these.
Speaker 8: Projects could potentially be militarized.
Speaker 7: I wouldn't go far so far as to say that
Speaker 7: a lot of these projects went in with a.
Speaker 8: Strategic intent to militarize them.
Speaker 7: But China is opportunistic, and China also recognizes, and they
Speaker 7: publish this in their military doctrine and their military strategy,
Speaker 7: the notion that they can leverage China's exceedingly growing global footprint,
Speaker 7: that commercial footprint for military purposes and to confound and
Speaker 7: replace the United States. These aren't secrets, This isn't Kraig
Speaker 7: Singleton saying, this is what the Chinese openly say in
Speaker 7: their doc and in their commentary, and I just think
Speaker 7: taking them far out their word is probably an important
Speaker 7: element for US policymakers to proactively counter these moves.
Speaker 2: So when you see Joe Biden in the case of
Speaker 2: this past weekend at the G twenty and also making
Speaker 2: the visit to Vietnam, when you squint your eyes, do
Speaker 2: you see a globe global South that could be friendlier
Speaker 2: to the US if the right investments are made in
Speaker 2: this case, or does China have such a head start
Speaker 2: that it's not possible potentially.
Speaker 7: I mean, I think a lot of these countries have
Speaker 7: sort of been wisening up to the fact that not
Speaker 7: all of China's aid or these infrastructure projects are sort
Speaker 7: of without risk or without strings. They certainly are, they're
Speaker 7: looking for alternatives. There are moments when it makes sense
Speaker 7: for the United States to get involved, and there are
Speaker 7: other times when perhaps other partners like Japan are better
Speaker 7: suited to support those types of projects. And while Chijingping
Speaker 7: obviously chose to not attend the G twenty summit for
Speaker 7: I think a host of different reasons, the reality is
Speaker 7: that next month he's going to be hosting the Belton
Speaker 7: Road Forum in China that I'll have more than eighty
Speaker 7: countries attending, and I think that's a clearer demonstration. Particularly
Speaker 7: It's Michelle mentioned across the Global South that China's message
Speaker 7: is not falling on deaf years, it is resonating. The
Speaker 7: question is how does the United States, how does the
Speaker 7: partners work together? I think to come up with an
Speaker 7: alternative architecture that maybe a little more appealing to some
Speaker 7: of these countries.
Speaker 2: Rita's column in The New York Times. I found it
Speaker 2: on the terminal.
Speaker 1: By the way.
Speaker 2: Guest essay from Craig Singleton, China's military is going global. Craig,
Speaker 2: Great to have you back. Let's keep this conversation going you,
Speaker 2: senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.
Speaker 2: Let's assemble our panel for their take. Rick Davis and
Speaker 2: Genie Shanzino back together again, Bloomberg Politics contributors coming off
Speaker 2: the weekend. Great to have you both here. Genie, I'll
Speaker 2: start with you. As this president makes his way home,
Speaker 2: was it worth the journey and did he use his time? Well,
Speaker 2: I'm hearing more about how tired he was than initiatives
Speaker 2: that were brought forth at the G twenty. But the
Speaker 2: media is not fair that way.
Speaker 9: What's your take, Yeah, it is a long trip, it
Speaker 9: was a whirlwind, you know, I too. I'm hearing a
Speaker 9: lot of disappointment. I think largely due to the language
Speaker 9: of the Communica in terms of Ukraine, also in terms
Speaker 9: of climate change. People think it wasn't tough enough. But
Speaker 9: I do have to say there were a couple of
Speaker 9: big proposals when it comes to confronting China, and you
Speaker 9: just mentioned one of them, this big global infrastructure proposal,
Speaker 9: also reinvestment in the World Bank. Those are two big
Speaker 9: initiatives that, should they come to fruition, really do literally
Speaker 9: lend their sort of lend to the president's ability to
Speaker 9: confront China and the world's ability to confront China. So
Speaker 9: I think it's a little short sighted just to look
Speaker 9: at the language of the Communica because it was weak
Speaker 9: and it wasn't as strong as it was last year.
Speaker 9: But there were other things to come out of this
Speaker 9: meeting as well.
Speaker 2: We'll have a lot more time to get into this rick,
Speaker 2: but in our minute that we have here, how concerned
Speaker 2: are you about the way that communicate was finalized.
Speaker 10: Yeah. Look, I mean I think they knew going in
Speaker 10: it would be a challenge to try and get something
Speaker 10: as strong as it was a year ago, especially as
Speaker 10: it relates to the Ukraine and Russia.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 10: But look, I think people are really missing the importance
Speaker 10: of Biden's trip to Vietnam. Yes, frontline of concern, trade,
Speaker 10: investment in military with China, and I think that trip
Speaker 10: alone probably was worth the price of admission.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the
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Speaker 2: President Biden is making his way back to Washington from
Speaker 2: the trip over the weekend of the G twenty, the
Speaker 2: stop in Vietnam, and he's going to be stopping in
Speaker 2: Alaska on the way, where we do expect remarks from
Speaker 2: the potus on this anniversary of the nine to eleven attacks.
Speaker 2: We talked about this the end of last week. Some
Speaker 2: criticized the President for not being either at Ground zero
Speaker 2: in New York, Shanksville, Pennsylvania, or here in Washington across
Speaker 2: the river at the Pentagon. But of course the administration
Speaker 2: was well represented in all of these areas. And we'll
Speaker 2: talk a little bit more about the anniversary later this
Speaker 2: hour in a special conversation with David Weston. As we
Speaker 2: mentioned though, he's on his way back following the mission
Speaker 2: to the G twenty and spoke in his news conference
Speaker 2: in Vietnam about the problems facing China, generating headlines on
Speaker 2: the terminal. The economic trouble in China may, in fact,
Speaker 2: in his view, keep China from invading Taiwan. Here's what
Speaker 2: he said.
Speaker 3: He has his hands full right now. He has overwhelming
Speaker 3: unemployment with his youth. One of the major economic tenets
Speaker 3: of his plan isn't working at all right now. I'm
Speaker 3: not happy for that, but it's not working. So he's
Speaker 3: trying to figure out I suspect I don't know, just
Speaker 3: like I would trying to figure out what to do
Speaker 3: about the particular crisis you're having now. But I don't
Speaker 3: think it's a crisis relating to conflict between China and
Speaker 3: the United States. As a matter of fact, I think
Speaker 3: it's less likely to cause that kind of conflict.
Speaker 2: Less likely to cause that kind of conflict. And of
Speaker 2: course Joe Biden knows a bit about what it's like
Speaker 2: to deal with economic strife, referring there to the possibility
Speaker 2: of him meeting with President She and exactly where our
Speaker 2: relationship stands. We reassembled our panel. Rick Davis and Genie
Speaker 2: Shanzano joined Bloomberg Politics contributors. What's your thought on that, Rick,
Speaker 2: there was so much talk about who was not in
Speaker 2: the room in the case of President She, President Putin
Speaker 2: is Joe Biden corrects on this, The President She's got
Speaker 2: his hands full to the point where he's not so
Speaker 2: much of a threat.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I don't think you can diminish the threat just
Speaker 10: by the fact that domestic economic circumstances and unemployment are
Speaker 10: running rampant in Beijing. If anything, I mean, frankly, I
Speaker 10: would worry more about that. I think domestic turmoil has
Speaker 10: always been one of the contributors to adventurism around the world.
Speaker 10: Try to take people's mind off of their own circumstance
Speaker 10: by creating this nationalistic fervor that you know, allows you
Speaker 10: to take an action. For instance, you know, an invasion
Speaker 10: of Taiwan. So and by the way, I mean, I
Speaker 10: think we've seen she talking a lot like that lately.
Speaker 10: So I would be more concerned, not less concerned, by
Speaker 10: an unstable domestic economic situation in China, and frankly shocked
Speaker 10: that the president would think that China has taken its
Speaker 10: eye off the ball at a time when all we're
Speaker 10: talking about is their adventurism around the world.
Speaker 2: What's your thought there, Genie. Does the economic trouble in China,
Speaker 2: God knows, they've been trying to stimulate the economy to
Speaker 2: come back to life here. Does it emboldened President She
Speaker 2: or does it make him feel cornered?
Speaker 7: You know?
Speaker 9: I have to say I agree with Rick on this.
Speaker 9: I think any time you're looking at a leader in
Speaker 9: the model world who is having trouble domestically in at home,
Speaker 9: there is always a concern that they look outward where
Speaker 9: they can have more influence and can potentially change the
Speaker 9: narrative at home. So I do think it is a
Speaker 9: real concern. I was also real concern to hear the
Speaker 9: Ministry of State Security say the other day that there's
Speaker 9: a prospect that Ji may not come to the bilateral
Speaker 9: meeting in November in San Francisco. You know that I
Speaker 9: think is very troubling because you want there to be
Speaker 9: conversation between the United States President and Ji Jinping. You
Speaker 9: want that kind of high level diplomatic engagement, you know,
Speaker 9: even if nothing comes of it. The fact that he
Speaker 9: stayed away from India and now potentially may stay away
Speaker 9: from the November meeting is I think another sign of
Speaker 9: trouble as the US continues to, despite what the President says,
Speaker 9: continues to befriend people right on his doorstep, something that
Speaker 9: upset who in in the last twenty years, and something
Speaker 9: that the US is now doing to China can have
Speaker 9: a backlash effect as well. Not that we shouldn't be
Speaker 9: doing it, but you've got to keep your eye on
Speaker 9: how that's read in China. And so all of those
Speaker 9: things I think are a real concern, not a reason
Speaker 9: to say things are looking up from the perspective of
Speaker 9: the US and China's relationship.
Speaker 2: Well, the President's approach to China certainly getting a lot
Speaker 2: of criticism from Republican presidential candidacies to soft on China.
Speaker 2: Case in point, Nikki Haley, who talked about it on
Speaker 2: Sunday morning on CNA.
Speaker 11: How much more has to happen for Biden to realize
Speaker 11: you don't send cabinet members over to China to appease them.
Speaker 11: You start getting serious with China and say We're not
Speaker 11: going to put.
Speaker 8: Up with it.
Speaker 11: They keep sending different cabinet officials over, Jake, and it's embarrassing.
Speaker 11: You sent Ramondo right after she got hacked, her emails
Speaker 11: got hacked by the Chinese. You sent all of these
Speaker 11: cabinet officials over after Chinese spy Buloom went over our country.
Speaker 11: They are putting a Chinese fib up on Cuba, off
Speaker 11: the coast of Florida. And don't wait for the fact
Speaker 11: that they are going to be sending Chinese military troops there.
Speaker 11: What are we doing appeasing China?
Speaker 2: Of course the White House Rick thinks it's avoiding conflict,
Speaker 2: not appeasing China, but trying to keep the train on
Speaker 2: the tracks here and not have a real cold war.
Speaker 2: Who's right?
Speaker 10: Look, I mean, whether we like it or not, I
Speaker 10: mean China is acting very provocatively. Nikki Haley is absolutely right.
Speaker 10: You know, their relations with the Solomon Islands is pressing
Speaker 10: our Pacific presence. Their bases in Djibouti or military bases
Speaker 10: their spy locations in Cuba. I mean, I'd ask Genie,
Speaker 10: what the heck are we How can we get criticism
Speaker 10: for going to places like Ukraine and Vietnam if this
Speaker 10: is the actions of our chief competitor, China. Look, whether
Speaker 10: we like it or not. And you can call it
Speaker 10: a cold war, you can call it something else, but
Speaker 10: we are in an active global competition for the favor
Speaker 10: of nations that are free versus those that are associating
Speaker 10: with with with dictators around the world. And and anybody
Speaker 10: who doesn't think that this is an active competition is
Speaker 10: misreading the tea leaves of the world movement right now.
Speaker 10: And and so I really think that Nikki Haley nailed
Speaker 10: it right. I mean, she knows that this competition exists.
Speaker 10: She's seen it firsthand in the in the in the
Speaker 10: Trump administration. And I think, frankly, is one of the
Speaker 10: very few presidential candidates who's espousing a more robust and
Speaker 10: capable US foreign policy. And and frankly, I'd much rather
Speaker 10: see she standing next to Nicki Haley than to President Biden,
Speaker 10: who somehow thinks that he deserves a break because he's
Speaker 10: got a bad economy.
Speaker 2: Well that look, that brings us to the issue of
Speaker 2: the way he comported himself some of the things that
Speaker 2: Joe Biden said on the visit. Genie, you can certainly
Speaker 2: weigh in on what Rick said. But you know, if
Speaker 2: you don't know whether it's morning or night, it is
Speaker 2: a little bit difficult to express authority or to project power.
Speaker 2: You might suggest you have this moment.
Speaker 3: This around the world in five days is interesting.
Speaker 2: It is evening, he said. He was even asked how
Speaker 2: he was doing by a couple of reporters who told
Speaker 2: him that it was in fact evening time.
Speaker 8: Good evening, miss a president.
Speaker 3: Are you thank you? These five day trips around the
Speaker 3: world are no problem.
Speaker 9: I can imagine it is the evening. I'd like to.
Speaker 2: Remind you, these five day trips around the world no problem, Genie,
Speaker 2: How did the president do? Did he just make his
Speaker 2: life more difficult here? Because when we're talking about the
Speaker 2: age issue, the cognitive issue, it's trips like these that
Speaker 2: people have in mind.
Speaker 9: That's right, But you know, listen, if any of us
Speaker 9: went on a trip to India, to Vietnam and to
Speaker 9: back to Alaska, did what the president has done in
Speaker 9: five days, it's a long trip. I think he was
Speaker 9: making the kind of Biden offhanded comments that he usually makes,
Speaker 9: and it's no surprise for anybody who has followed him.
Speaker 9: And I also don't think anybody can accuse Joe Biden
Speaker 9: of not understanding the need to confront and contain China.
Speaker 9: He is a president who has done that, arguably more
Speaker 9: than any president in the modern era. Has turned our
Speaker 9: attention from China. He's to China rather to the Asia Pacific.
Speaker 9: He's gotten criticized today for not being here for nine
Speaker 9: to eleven, but let's not forget he is willing to
Speaker 9: take that hit because he is coming back from a
Speaker 9: very important trip to India and to Vietnam to really
Speaker 9: really make the case that we do have to focus
Speaker 9: our attention not on the Middle East, where it has
Speaker 9: been for the last twenty five years for good reason,
Speaker 9: but to China, where we come front a big threat
Speaker 9: and we have a big competition. So I think it's
Speaker 9: shortsighted to say that he doesn't recognize that I do
Speaker 9: agree with Rick on this. Members of his own party
Speaker 9: are not clear about this. Let's just think back to
Speaker 9: what Nikki Haley had to say to the vek Ramaswani
Speaker 9: and others during the debate. So there is a debate
Speaker 9: to be had in the Republican Party where they're even
Speaker 9: debating today as they come back to the House whether
Speaker 9: to give Ukraine the money it needs to have this
Speaker 9: confrontation with Russia. So those are things that the Republican
Speaker 9: Party does have to work out. There's a lot more
Speaker 9: unanimity on the side of the Democrats when it comes
Speaker 9: to that.
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Speaker 2: We've been talking a lot about China and the Biden
Speaker 2: administration's relationship or a lack thereof, with that country. It
Speaker 2: was a very different look in Vietnam. After the President
Speaker 2: left the G twenty, he went to Vietnam for a
Speaker 2: brief set of meetings where they did announce a comprehensive
Speaker 2: strategic partnership and enhanced trade relationship that puts the US
Speaker 2: on par with China, which is something that the late
Speaker 2: Senator John McCain spent years pushing for. As we reassemble
Speaker 2: our panel with Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzana Bloomberg Politics contributors,
Speaker 2: some pretty touching moments and pretty good optics. I would
Speaker 2: argue for the President in Vietnam as he visited the
Speaker 2: memorial to John McCain in Hanoi, he left a challenge
Speaker 2: coin at the memorial later wreath and spent some time
Speaker 2: talking with the two service members who was there. We
Speaker 2: should note, by the way, that for Senator former Secretary
Speaker 2: of State John Kerry, also of course a Vietnam War veteran,
Speaker 2: was also with him at that moment. Rick, I suspect
Speaker 2: that memorial wouldn't be there if it weren't in part
Speaker 2: for your efforts. And I wonder your thoughts as you
Speaker 2: see the President actually get business done in Vietnam that
Speaker 2: John McCain would have loved to have seen himself.
Speaker 10: First of all, I had nothing to do with that
Speaker 10: memorial strictly, the Vietnamese government put that up.
Speaker 2: How about that?
Speaker 10: Because I would not want to be held to blame
Speaker 10: for on that memorial. It refers to John McCain as
Speaker 10: an air Force air pirate, and he didn't mind being
Speaker 10: called an air pirate, but he did not like being
Speaker 10: called air force. That's a Navy pilot. It was proud
Speaker 10: of his wing and so look, I mean, John McCain
Speaker 10: always had a fond memory of that lake because he
Speaker 10: was his arms and knees were broken when he ejected
Speaker 10: from his aircraft after being hit by a rocket and
Speaker 10: he landed in the middle of that lake. And he said,
Speaker 10: if not for the Vietnamese that pulled him out of
Speaker 10: that lake beating and stabbing him, he would have drowned. So,
Speaker 10: you know, he always had a kind of way of
Speaker 10: looking at things from an optimistic point of view. But
Speaker 10: I thought it was nice that the President stopped at
Speaker 10: that memorial and showed his respect to John McCain. And
Speaker 10: I think that, you know, it just betrays what we
Speaker 10: need more of in foreign policy, which is we can
Speaker 10: debate all we want at home, but when it comes
Speaker 10: to what we think the overseas prior as of our
Speaker 10: country are, they should be together. And John McCain and
Speaker 10: President Biden had a lot of disagreements, but ultimately when
Speaker 10: they came together, they did good things. For the country abroad,
Speaker 10: and we're on the same page more than they weren't.
Speaker 10: So kudos to the present for taking time out of
Speaker 10: his schedule to do that.
Speaker 2: Genie, I'm struck by the name of Franklin Ford's book
Speaker 2: about Joe Biden, the Last Politician, the optics of this
Speaker 2: visit to the memorial Joe Biden coming to the aid
Speaker 2: of Mitch McConnell, at least optically speaking again, when he
Speaker 2: was asked by reporters about Mitch mcconnald's freezing up before
Speaker 2: the cameras, it does feel like it's the end of
Speaker 2: an era, or at least a generation in politics when
Speaker 2: you see these events unfold before your eyes.
Speaker 9: It absolutely does. And you know, I talk to students
Speaker 9: every day between the ages of you know, seventeen to
Speaker 9: twenty two, twenty three, and for them, I know we're
Speaker 9: going to be talking about nine to eleven in a
Speaker 9: little bit. You know, they weren't even born, many of
Speaker 9: them when nine to eleven occurred, which is, you know,
Speaker 9: hard to even wrap your head around. And as they
Speaker 9: look at politicians like Joe Biden or Mitch McConnell or
Speaker 9: Nancy Pelosi, or think about people like the former Senator
Speaker 9: John McCain, these do seem like relics to a certain
Speaker 9: extent from a past generation. I have to say I
Speaker 9: really was thought it was very good visit to Hanoi.
Speaker 9: The President described this as a historic moment overcoming a
Speaker 9: bitter past, and that is an apt description. And for
Speaker 9: Vietnam to put the US in its highest diplomatic category
Speaker 9: on par with China, that is a big advance as well.
Speaker 9: So everything from the discussion of semiconductors, the memoir of
Speaker 9: Ulizing rather John McCain, those are all important, as was
Speaker 9: the president's diplomatic outreach to Hanoi. These are a very
Speaker 9: big steps forward for the President and for the United
Speaker 9: States from a foreign policy and economic perspective.
Speaker 2: We're going to bring in David Weston, as I promised
Speaker 2: in just a moment, to talk with us on this
Speaker 2: September eleventh. I'd love to hear from both of you
Speaker 2: on what the President is and is not doing today. Quickly,
Speaker 2: before we get to David Rick, is it a problem
Speaker 2: that Joe Biden is swinging through Alaska on his way
Speaker 2: back to mark this occasion instead of being at ground
Speaker 2: zero at the Pentagon or in Shanksville.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think that if the trade off was doing
Speaker 10: as Genie described, you know, the work that he did
Speaker 10: in Vietnam, I think it was well worth the trade off.
Speaker 10: Joe Biden's been making these visit's on on nine to
Speaker 10: eleven for twenty two years, and I don't think there's
Speaker 10: any criticism that should be sent his way. This is
Speaker 10: a day where, frankly, bipartisanship should reign supreme.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he will be delivering remarks, Genie. He is, in
Speaker 2: fact paying tribute on this date. Does it matter where
Speaker 2: you are as the commander in chief?
Speaker 9: You know, I think ideally you do want to be
Speaker 9: at one of the memorials, But he is one person.
Speaker 9: He can't be everywhere. He made the hard decision to
Speaker 9: do this very important foreign policy trip, and he sent
Speaker 9: the vice president in his way to New York, so
Speaker 9: you know, it's probably not exactly where he wants to be.
Speaker 9: But he had to make a tough choice, like all leaders,
Speaker 9: and he made it, and I think from everybody's perspective,
Speaker 9: it is the right choice. But it is important that
Speaker 9: he's going to stop and take time to remember the victims.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Great to have you both here. Great Conversations Today
Speaker 2: Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis, our signature panel on Sound
Speaker 2: on Bloomberg Politics contributors.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 2: The question you'll surely hear someone ask today, and maybe
Speaker 2: you've been asked already in the office or as you're
Speaker 2: going to the store or whatever your day includes here
Speaker 2: is where were you on nine to eleven? For many,
Speaker 2: the answer is at home, right. It was in the morning,
Speaker 2: watching TV, watching morning shows like Good Morning America GMA,
Speaker 2: where the anchors had no idea what was unfolding.
Speaker 6: We want to tell you what we know as we
Speaker 6: know it. We just got a report in that there's
Speaker 6: been some sort of explosion at the World Trade Center
Speaker 6: in New York City. One report said, and we can't
Speaker 6: confirm any of this, that a plane may have hit
Speaker 6: one of the two towers of the World Trade Center.
Speaker 6: But again you're seeing the live pictures.
Speaker 2: Here's David Weston was at work that morning, as we
Speaker 2: hear Diane Sawyer talking there on GMA. David was the
Speaker 2: president of ABC News, and he joins us right now
Speaker 2: from New York to recall the events of that day
Speaker 2: and what they would lead to. David, thank you for
Speaker 2: being here. I'm so glad that you could join us.
Speaker 2: You were watching GMA as the boss. What did you think?
Speaker 2: What went through your mind when you heard Diane Sawyer
Speaker 2: see this?
Speaker 5: Well, it goes through my mind. Even as I listened
Speaker 5: to it again, I remember it terribly well. I mean
Speaker 5: I used to get in every morning before seven o'clock
Speaker 5: because that's when Good Morning America came on the air,
Speaker 5: and I watched like five or six monitors that I
Speaker 5: had in my office to see whatever he was doing.
Speaker 5: And I remember looking up when we were in commercial
Speaker 5: break actually at GMA and seeing on CNN sort of
Speaker 5: smoke coming out of a high level of one of
Speaker 5: the trade towers, and I turned down that volume to
Speaker 5: figure out was going on. At that point, nobody had
Speaker 5: any idea what it was, but I called down to
Speaker 5: control room and said, something's gone to the World Trades
Speaker 5: and a get out of commercial, go to the full network.
Speaker 5: And we went to the full network. Really as you
Speaker 5: could hear from Diane, not fully where what had happened,
Speaker 5: but there were reports there was an aircraft that are
Speaker 5: going in and they went to full network mode, Special report,
Speaker 5: we called it, and as they watched it was Die
Speaker 5: Answer and Charlie Gibson. We all watched together as that
Speaker 5: second airliner went crashing into the second tower, and Charlie said,
Speaker 5: you know, it looks like an airliner has just gone
Speaker 5: on the second tower.
Speaker 2: What happens next in a situation like that? You know
Speaker 2: people are watching the anchors, but there are dozens, if
Speaker 2: not a couple of hundred folks behind them. What happened
Speaker 2: internally at ABC News? Do you pick up the phone?
Speaker 2: Who do you start calling?
Speaker 5: Well, you get the desk is there, you get everybody
Speaker 5: in as fast as you can figure out where people are. Frankly, Joe,
Speaker 5: one of the first questions is where are people? Do
Speaker 5: we have any people who are at risk down at
Speaker 5: the World Trade Center? And where else could there be
Speaker 5: an attack? I will say we were I'm not sure
Speaker 5: fortunate is the right word, but we were in a
Speaker 5: position to have an idea about Osama bin Laden and
Speaker 5: al Qaeda because John Miller, who worked for US, had
Speaker 5: tricked into Afghanistan about eighteen months before, and we had
Speaker 5: aired what turned out to be the last Western interview
Speaker 5: with Osama and Laana from his camp in Afghanistan. We
Speaker 5: had covered that story, and I had talked frankly with
Speaker 5: some senior military people in the months before, saying what's
Speaker 5: the biggest threat we have? And they said, to a person,
Speaker 5: it's a terrorist attack, And so we had I had
Speaker 5: a pretty good sense pretty early on that it was terrorism,
Speaker 5: and then it was al Qaeda, So in that sense,
Speaker 5: we had a little bit of a jump on it.
Speaker 5: But then you figure out, how can you cover the
Speaker 5: story as best you can? Who can you get down there?
Speaker 5: Close follow on to that is, can we send them
Speaker 5: down there safely? We had a whole discussion, not a
Speaker 5: long one, but a discussion do they have to have
Speaker 5: hazmat suits on? Because we're not sure what this was
Speaker 5: and what the effects might be in the people in
Speaker 5: their surrounding areas? How can we get video out of there.
Speaker 5: We're a television organization, you got to get video audio.
Speaker 5: We were fortunate because we had Don Daylor, one of
Speaker 5: our orders, who actually lived near there, and he got
Speaker 5: on the telephone pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: Also turned out that you had a reporter pretty close
Speaker 2: to the scene, but didn't realize following a series of
Speaker 2: emails from what appeared to be a stranger, that George
Speaker 2: Stephanopoulos was trying to get news to the news.
Speaker 5: But you know, I'd forgotten about that, Joe, That's exactly right.
Speaker 5: Por George was down there trying to get through, and
Speaker 5: everybody thought he was it was a crank call. It
Speaker 5: took quite a while to figure out that actually, yes,
Speaker 5: George actually was nearby near ground zero, and he was
Speaker 5: trying to report, and we finally got him in the
Speaker 5: air and we got John Miller in the chair pretty quickly.
Speaker 5: We stuck with Diane and with Charlie for about forty
Speaker 5: or forty five minutes. Peter Jennings was in the building
Speaker 5: and he was reluctant, frankly, to go on because he said,
Speaker 5: they're doing such a good job. And I said, Peter,
Speaker 5: I mean, you're a lead anchor. You got to get
Speaker 5: in the chair. And he sat there with John Miller
Speaker 5: and we covered. You know, we went on. We went
Speaker 5: on right through till Saturday morning, no NonStop, no commercial breaks,
Speaker 5: no nothing. But we covered it in part that first
Speaker 5: day with John Miller tapping into police frequencies because he'd
Speaker 5: been in the police department and he had a bunch
Speaker 5: of buddies there and he was giving us a lot
Speaker 5: of the reporting.
Speaker 2: You mentioned. You try to find out who you have,
Speaker 2: and you had a reporter on Air Force one. I
Speaker 2: don't know how long it was before you were able
Speaker 2: to make contact with Anne Compton David, but her story
Speaker 2: is iconic.
Speaker 5: Well, Ann Compton happened to be the radio pool that
Speaker 5: day and wonderful radio longtime White House correspondent for ABC
Speaker 5: News and ABC News Radio. And we all remember President
Speaker 5: George W. Bush was in Floridas speaking actually to an
Speaker 5: elementary school class when this all happened. We've all seen
Speaker 5: that iconic video when they first told him what was
Speaker 5: going on, and then they hurried everybody onto Air Force one.
Speaker 5: President Bush made a couple of brief remarks. They hurried
Speaker 5: him onto Air Force one because they wanted to get
Speaker 5: him to make sure he was safe. They weren't sure
Speaker 5: how to attack him, and so we just were told
Speaker 5: Ann's on the plane. She called in. She said, we're
Speaker 5: going wheels, but we don't know where we're going. I
Speaker 5: don't know when I can talk to you, I'll let
Speaker 5: you know. And so next time we heard from her,
Speaker 5: they had put down actually in Louisiana. As I recall,
Speaker 5: the base was for refueling, and she gave us from
Speaker 5: the tarmac a quick report on what was going on
Speaker 5: on Air Force One. Then they took off again and
Speaker 5: they went to another air base, and again she talked
Speaker 5: to us from there. President Bush spoke from there because
Speaker 5: he didn't make it back to Washington Action until that evening,
Speaker 5: and then addressed the nation from the Oval Office.
Speaker 2: That's incredible to think that you had people truly in
Speaker 2: all the right places. You couldn't have planned it better
Speaker 2: if you had been given a tip on this, David.
Speaker 2: But I'm talking to you now as someone who our
Speaker 2: viewers and listeners know as a journalist, as a broadcast
Speaker 2: journalist and anchor, the guy who asks the questions you
Speaker 2: were an executive at that point as the president of
Speaker 2: ABC News. To what extent did the events of that
Speaker 2: day in the following days inform your next career that
Speaker 2: you now enjoy Well?
Speaker 5: I think, as you know, Joe as well or better
Speaker 5: than I do, everything you've ever experienced or known or
Speaker 5: done informs what you do when you're in these jobs
Speaker 5: on the air, it's a very different thing. One of
Speaker 5: the wonderful experiences of being on the air, having spent
Speaker 5: so much time I was there for fourteen years behind
Speaker 5: the camera, is you have to understand of what else
Speaker 5: is in the iceberg, the stuff below the surface. And
Speaker 5: I'll give you a couple of examples. For example, one
Speaker 5: of the first things we did was we marshaled as
Speaker 5: much troops as we could get down to the hospitals
Speaker 5: in the area because we were convinced there would be
Speaker 5: all kinds of wounded coming in. And then as the
Speaker 5: day unfolded, we realized nobody was coming because they were
Speaker 5: all dead. And it was a terrible moment. Another moment,
Speaker 5: an hour into it, I got a call in the
Speaker 5: control room saying, there are people jumping from the towers.
Speaker 5: Do we show it? And I said, no, you report
Speaker 5: they're jumping, but you do not show because that's somebody
Speaker 5: who loved one that they're seeing to commit suicide.
Speaker 2: Essentially, just absolutely horrible to think that this happened, and
Speaker 2: that we watched it as it was happening. David, it
Speaker 2: was folks like you making those decisions, and I know
Speaker 2: that you held an event with some children. I heard
Speaker 2: you say about this school children, which was was a
Speaker 2: Saturday morning show that Peter Jennings used to conduct, and
Speaker 2: this was about telling them about what happened on nine
Speaker 2: to eleven and showing them the actual video. They couldn't
Speaker 2: discern between what was happening then and whether it was
Speaker 2: real now. And I bring this to you because it's
Speaker 2: something that every television news network has to grapple with
Speaker 2: and some have annually shown the video of the towers
Speaker 2: being hit, of people jumping, of the towers falling. You
Speaker 2: made the decision not to do that, didn't you?
Speaker 5: Now I did as a result of that townholl meeting
Speaker 5: with the children. Peter Jennings was I think the best
Speaker 5: breaking news anchor ever, but he was particularly gifted with
Speaker 5: children and he wanted to do and we wanted to
Speaker 5: do a special that Saturday to try to explain to
Speaker 5: kids what had happened. And we actually had a professor
Speaker 5: of tild psychology from Princeton there who said, one of
Speaker 5: the things you have understand small children don't understand it's not
Speaker 5: happening again. They think that every time they see it,
Speaker 5: there's another building going down. And so from the car
Speaker 5: on the way home, I got on the phone to
Speaker 5: the desk and I said, Okay, we will never show
Speaker 5: moving video of that again on ABC News. We'll show
Speaker 5: us still, but never moving video. Because at that point, Joe,
Speaker 5: it had become almost like music. People were putting in
Speaker 5: their bumpers, they were putting their promos. I mean, you
Speaker 5: kept seeing these towers collapse and it wasn't telling anybody.
Speaker 5: I mean, it wasn't communicating. It was just pure emotion.
Speaker 5: And I said, we'll never do it again. And we didn't.
Speaker 5: We never showed a moving image again because it wasn't
Speaker 5: informing anybody. It was just pushing the buttons that we
Speaker 5: didn't need to push.
Speaker 2: I think that's incredible, and it's so important here while
Speaker 2: we look back twenty two years later, because some networks
Speaker 2: continue to show this in promotional framing. To your point,
Speaker 2: and I would say, this isn't just about kids, David.
Speaker 2: I don't think adults in many cases are helped by
Speaker 2: seeing that over again, are they?
Speaker 10: No?
Speaker 5: I don't think. So there's no information I'm getting. But again,
Speaker 5: I want to go back to the relatives, the loved
Speaker 5: ones of those people. They're watching their loved ones die,
Speaker 5: and you know, again and again, what are we getting
Speaker 5: out of that? But I'll just add one of the
Speaker 5: things that people may not understand. We spent hours that
Speaker 5: day not being able to get any information of the government.
Speaker 5: And now, in fairness, they didn't know what was going on,
Speaker 5: but the President was in the air, the Vice President
Speaker 5: was on some protected location beneath the White House, and
Speaker 5: we kept trying to get anybody. If the government tell
Speaker 5: us what's going on, we got silence. With one exception,
Speaker 5: I'll give them great credit. George Pataki, the governor of
Speaker 5: New York, would actually get on the phone and say,
Speaker 5: this is what we know. Who we don't know because
Speaker 5: we had reports coming in of all kinds of bizarre
Speaker 5: things happening we couldn't confirm or deny. And the question
Speaker 5: is do you report it?
Speaker 2: Just the first thing you thought about when you woke
Speaker 2: up today?
Speaker 5: Of course, yeah, always always. But by the way, your
Speaker 5: discussion about the President Biden not being in town. In
Speaker 5: some sense, you know, it's kind of sad because we're
Speaker 5: not making big deals. In some ways, it's healthy. We
Speaker 5: need to go on, we need to remember, but we
Speaker 5: need to recover. We need to go On. We couldn't live.
Speaker 5: I couldn't live at that level of emotional distress that
Speaker 5: we had in the days and the weeks and even
Speaker 5: the months after nine to eleven. You have to get
Speaker 5: over it and go on with your life sometime.
Speaker 2: I can't thank you enough for sharing that with us,
Speaker 2: David Weston, our dear friend at Bloomberg and of course,
Speaker 2: one of many lives that changed that thing. Thanks for
Speaker 2: listening to the sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe
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