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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listening on

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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcast.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington, where we are waiting for

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Speaker 2: the return of President Biden. He's on his way now

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Speaker 2: after his trip to India for the G twenty, of course,

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Speaker 2: to stop along the way in Vietnam, where he played

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Speaker 2: down claims in a news conference that the US wants

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Speaker 2: to isolate China.

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Speaker 3: I met with his number two person here and excuse

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Speaker 3: me in India today, So it's not like there's a

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Speaker 3: crisis if I don't personally speak to me better if

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Speaker 3: I did. But I think, look, this is not a criticism,

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Speaker 3: it's an observation. He has his hands full right now.

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Speaker 2: So where are we in the relationship and what comes

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Speaker 2: of this trip. We're joined in studio by miss jem Risco,

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Speaker 2: my old colleague now with us in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 2: It's great to see you carrying the title Bloomberg News

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Speaker 2: White House Senior Reporter. So let's start with the takeaways here,

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Speaker 2: and the messaging is the US learning, is the president

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Speaker 2: learning new ways to counter China. It was widely noted

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Speaker 2: that President She was not in the room for this confab.

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Speaker 2: That gave the president free reign to do what he

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Speaker 2: needed to do.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, Joe, you know how these summits usually go.

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Speaker 4: That's a lot on form and style over substance. And

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Speaker 4: I think in terms of that first category, style and form,

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Speaker 4: I think he's checking some boxes here. He saw the

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Speaker 4: opening China and Russia absent from this summit. He wants

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Speaker 4: to move in and kind of appeal to the so

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Speaker 4: called Global South countries that have been asking for more

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Speaker 4: from this US led coalition. And he did do that.

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Speaker 5: He spoke to them.

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Speaker 4: He spoke to them in a lot of their own language,

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Speaker 4: and he was speaking to China's so called weakness right now.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of weakness in its position economically as well

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Speaker 4: as potentially politically. So I think that quote kind of

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Speaker 4: says it all. He says he has his hands full

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Speaker 4: right now talking about President She. That was a not

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Speaker 4: so veiled swipe. Also, you know at what they're dealing

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Speaker 4: with economically in China and what that means for potentially

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Speaker 4: their position of power in the world.

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Speaker 2: Even seemed to indicate that it would keep China from

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Speaker 2: invading Taiwan.

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Speaker 6: That's right.

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Speaker 2: So the headline that seems to be resonating here, the

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Speaker 2: Communic KAE always comes with a certain amount of angst,

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Speaker 2: not much more than this time, though official say they

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Speaker 2: worked on this through three hundred hours of meetings. It

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Speaker 2: does not single out Russia for its invasion of Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: but it does say that there were different views and

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Speaker 2: assessments of the situation. What do we take from the

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Speaker 2: Communic k Whether you like the writing or not, I

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Speaker 2: could read it to you here. All states must refrain

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Speaker 2: from the threat or use of force to seek territorial acquisition.

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Speaker 2: But for many it just didn't go far enough.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, leaning on the UN language there was the safest

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Speaker 4: way to go and in order to bring the representatives

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Speaker 4: from China and Russia on board for some sort of

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Speaker 4: G twenty agreement. Now, remember, over the past couple of years,

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Speaker 4: and ever since the war started, really, there have been

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Speaker 4: a lot of tie ups in communicate language because the

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Speaker 4: US led coalition wanted to say Russia is the aggressor,

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Speaker 4: because they said something about sanctions. This time, those two

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Speaker 4: components were removed they leaned on that un language, just

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Speaker 4: the facts, and they could kind of focus on other things,

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Speaker 4: so sort of a short term sacrifice. Of course, Ukraine

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Speaker 4: and others not pleased, but the US saw an opening

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Speaker 4: to kind of push forward on other issues, and in

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Speaker 4: order to do that, they wanted to kind of leave

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Speaker 4: the war language to the side for a bit.

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Speaker 2: We're spending time with Bloomberg White House reporter Michelle jam Risco,

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Speaker 2: Senior reporter, I should say, and it's a perfect time

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Speaker 2: for you to join us because you were way ahead

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Speaker 2: on this idea of the Global South rising, which is

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Speaker 2: something that is now a mainstream part of the conversation.

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Speaker 2: It certainly was on display at this G twenty on

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Speaker 2: the recent visit to the White House by Prime Minister Modi.

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Speaker 2: Now they've each had a visit here and it's really

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Speaker 2: changed the conversation as the president in the US try

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Speaker 2: to turn away from Russia in China. But it's a

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Speaker 2: lot more complicated than that, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And in our teams, you know, we were looking

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Speaker 4: at this before it was cool, Right, it's kind of

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Speaker 4: become this big issue of talking about the Global South

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Speaker 4: and this tagline what does it mean?

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Speaker 2: Actually?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean this is years in the making, but

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Speaker 4: you know, people are starting to wake up to the

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Speaker 4: fact that powers like India, which is becoming an even

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Speaker 4: bigger economic power and certainly a people power most populous

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Speaker 4: nation now, powers like India and Vietnam and the others

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Speaker 4: are so called swing states. So the US needs to

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Speaker 4: kind of convince them on certain issues. They're a bit

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Speaker 4: bothered over the last few years, to say it lightly,

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Speaker 4: about things like trying to get involved in the US

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Speaker 4: China trade war, or sanctions on Russia, or the pandemic.

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Speaker 4: You know, they don't see this US led global order

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Speaker 4: from post World War two onwards working for them today,

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Speaker 4: and they want changes. They want big changes MDB reform,

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Speaker 4: they want different trade and investment deals. They want the

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Speaker 4: US to show up the table with money, not just

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Speaker 4: you know, platitudes and.

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Speaker 2: Anything to change that.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think he's talking to talk. Biden was

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Speaker 4: seen to be kind of speaking the language, as we

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Speaker 4: said earlier, about you know, what does the global South

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Speaker 4: want to hear in terms of infrastructure investment deals, in

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Speaker 4: terms of MDB reforms. So MDB reform has been one

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Speaker 4: of one of the ones that the US has really

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Speaker 4: been plugging as a response to these Global South requests.

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Speaker 4: And we heard from US Treasury Understructory J. Shamba last

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Speaker 4: week leading into the G twenty summit talking about how, yes,

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Speaker 4: the IMF and World Bank are going to be looking

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Speaker 4: at member quotas giving shareholders more power, so in essence,

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Speaker 4: giving Global South countries more say in how that those

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Speaker 4: institutions are run and hopefully getting more money toward real

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Speaker 4: crisis issues and not just these high fluting issues like

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Speaker 4: climate which the MDB's are kind of ill positioned to tackle.

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Speaker 2: You can see why she's senior White House reporter for

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Speaker 2: Blueberg News. I'm so glad that you're back in the

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Speaker 2: Ta Tay to be vacuating. How many years were you there?

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Speaker 2: Six years? Amazing and welcome back to you and your family.

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Speaker 2: Don't be a stranger here on sound On. Many thanks

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Speaker 2: for the insights, Michelle. Jim Risco with us here on

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg sound On. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington as we

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Speaker 2: add another voice of the conversation. I've been looking forward

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Speaker 2: to this as well because the op ed jumped off

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Speaker 2: the page in advance of this G twenty. The headline

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Speaker 2: from Craig Singleton China's military is going global. He's with

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Speaker 2: us now, senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense

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Speaker 2: of Democracies. Craig is great to see you. Where to begin?

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Speaker 2: As we talked to Michelle about the emerging Global South,

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Speaker 2: you seize in your story on what's happening in Cambodia

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Speaker 2: at the real naval base, and you point this out

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Speaker 2: as the example to start your piece on what China

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Speaker 2: is doing from Africa all the way to the South

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Speaker 2: China Sea, establishing strategic strong points as they're called, to

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Speaker 2: protect trade routes. But is there a lot more to it?

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Speaker 2: This is about projecting power, isn't it.

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Speaker 7: Craig absolutely, thanks for having me. I mean this impenting

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Speaker 7: inauguration of China's what will be their first into Pacific

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Speaker 7: military outposts in Cambodia. It just represents a major evolution

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Speaker 7: in China's defense posture, you know. But I think beyond ream,

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Speaker 7: China is employing all of these innovative asymmetric tactics to

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Speaker 7: sort of undercut and offset American military might, and it

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Speaker 7: has some pretty serious implications for I think the United

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Speaker 7: States and its allies. And you're right, it centers around

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Speaker 7: this notion of establishing strategic strong points around key maritime

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Speaker 7: choke points and along key trade routes around the world.

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Speaker 7: And sometimes those strong points will look like military bases

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Speaker 7: like Djibouti and the one that's coming online in Cambodia.

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Speaker 7: Other times they might just be agreements that let the

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Speaker 7: Chinese pull in their military for refueling. At the end

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Speaker 7: of the day, the Chinese are not going to go

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Speaker 7: base for base with the United States. What we really

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Speaker 7: have to understand as a country, right is the strategic

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Speaker 7: intent behind a lot of these moves, and that really

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Speaker 7: has to do with confounding and constraining US policy during

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Speaker 7: short of war scenarios and even during a contingency over Taiwan.

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Speaker 2: How about that. You mentioned Djibouti another example in your column,

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Speaker 2: and maybe this is what Cambodia is going to end

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Speaker 2: up looking like. It started as a civilian multi purpose port,

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Speaker 2: it has evolved into what you describe as a heavily

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Speaker 2: fortified base more than two hundred and fifty thousand square

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Speaker 2: feet of underground bunkers. What's all that for?

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Speaker 8: Who knows?

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Speaker 7: I mean, the Chinese have a long track record of

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Speaker 7: relying on bunkers at their strategic locations and facilities inside

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Speaker 7: of China to hide armaments and nuclear weapons and other ammunitions.

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Speaker 7: We just don't know what's really under the hood there,

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Speaker 7: and I will probably never know, and a lot of

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Speaker 7: that has to do with the lack of transparency that

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Speaker 7: the Chinese have shrouded this broader expansion in What we

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Speaker 7: really need to be concerned about, I think is that

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Speaker 7: a lot of these initial what appeared to be civilian

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Speaker 7: projects and places like Djibouti, places like the United Arab Emirates,

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Speaker 7: the places like Guada and Pakistan are starting to be

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Speaker 7: sort of augmented with military might, you know, tangible military assets.

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Speaker 7: And what happens is that the Chinese are going to

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Speaker 7: be able to project and influence along these key choke

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Speaker 7: points and frankly, I think, potentially prevent us from from

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Speaker 7: shifting resources and personnel into China's near periphery in the.

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Speaker 8: Event of a contingency.

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Speaker 7: And so the Chinese are going to be able to

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Speaker 7: build out this network over time that will be a

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Speaker 7: lot cheaper, a lot less expensive, and a lot less

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Speaker 7: you know, sort of cost prohibitive than our global footprint.

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Speaker 7: But they're going to be able to do so in

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Speaker 7: a way that actually undermines and undercuts our ability to

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Speaker 7: project strength.

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Speaker 8: And that's sort of where I think the Chinese are

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Speaker 8: heading right now.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're right that once commercial projects and the Belton

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Speaker 2: Road initiative are now being retrofitted with military assets. Was

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Speaker 2: this the purpose of Belt and Road all along? As

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Speaker 2: we consider what the Biden administration is trying to pitch

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Speaker 2: here at the G twenty as an alternative.

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Speaker 7: Michelle was right, it's time for the United States to

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Speaker 7: offers alternatives some of these countries who I think are

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Speaker 7: eager or perhaps concerned not just about the debt trap

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Speaker 7: diplomacy aspect of Belton Road, but also whether some of these.

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Speaker 8: Projects could potentially be militarized.

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Speaker 7: I wouldn't go far so far as to say that

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Speaker 7: a lot of these projects went in with a.

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Speaker 8: Strategic intent to militarize them.

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Speaker 7: But China is opportunistic, and China also recognizes, and they

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Speaker 7: publish this in their military doctrine and their military strategy,

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Speaker 7: the notion that they can leverage China's exceedingly growing global footprint,

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Speaker 7: that commercial footprint for military purposes and to confound and

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Speaker 7: replace the United States. These aren't secrets, This isn't Kraig

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Speaker 7: Singleton saying, this is what the Chinese openly say in

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Speaker 7: their doc and in their commentary, and I just think

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Speaker 7: taking them far out their word is probably an important

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Speaker 7: element for US policymakers to proactively counter these moves.

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Speaker 2: So when you see Joe Biden in the case of

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Speaker 2: this past weekend at the G twenty and also making

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Speaker 2: the visit to Vietnam, when you squint your eyes, do

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Speaker 2: you see a globe global South that could be friendlier

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Speaker 2: to the US if the right investments are made in

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Speaker 2: this case, or does China have such a head start

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Speaker 2: that it's not possible potentially.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I think a lot of these countries have

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Speaker 7: sort of been wisening up to the fact that not

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Speaker 7: all of China's aid or these infrastructure projects are sort

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Speaker 7: of without risk or without strings. They certainly are, they're

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Speaker 7: looking for alternatives. There are moments when it makes sense

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Speaker 7: for the United States to get involved, and there are

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Speaker 7: other times when perhaps other partners like Japan are better

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Speaker 7: suited to support those types of projects. And while Chijingping

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Speaker 7: obviously chose to not attend the G twenty summit for

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Speaker 7: I think a host of different reasons, the reality is

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Speaker 7: that next month he's going to be hosting the Belton

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Speaker 7: Road Forum in China that I'll have more than eighty

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Speaker 7: countries attending, and I think that's a clearer demonstration. Particularly

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Speaker 7: It's Michelle mentioned across the Global South that China's message

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Speaker 7: is not falling on deaf years, it is resonating. The

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Speaker 7: question is how does the United States, how does the

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Speaker 7: partners work together? I think to come up with an

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Speaker 7: alternative architecture that maybe a little more appealing to some

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Speaker 7: of these countries.

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Speaker 2: Rita's column in The New York Times. I found it

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Speaker 2: on the terminal.

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Speaker 1: By the way.

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Speaker 2: Guest essay from Craig Singleton, China's military is going global. Craig,

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Speaker 2: Great to have you back. Let's keep this conversation going you,

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Speaker 2: senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.

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Speaker 2: Let's assemble our panel for their take. Rick Davis and

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Speaker 2: Genie Shanzino back together again, Bloomberg Politics contributors coming off

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Speaker 2: the weekend. Great to have you both here. Genie, I'll

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Speaker 2: start with you. As this president makes his way home,

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Speaker 2: was it worth the journey and did he use his time? Well,

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Speaker 2: I'm hearing more about how tired he was than initiatives

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Speaker 2: that were brought forth at the G twenty. But the

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Speaker 2: media is not fair that way.

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Speaker 9: What's your take, Yeah, it is a long trip, it

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Speaker 9: was a whirlwind, you know, I too. I'm hearing a

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Speaker 9: lot of disappointment. I think largely due to the language

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Speaker 9: of the Communica in terms of Ukraine, also in terms

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Speaker 9: of climate change. People think it wasn't tough enough. But

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Speaker 9: I do have to say there were a couple of

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Speaker 9: big proposals when it comes to confronting China, and you

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Speaker 9: just mentioned one of them, this big global infrastructure proposal,

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Speaker 9: also reinvestment in the World Bank. Those are two big

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Speaker 9: initiatives that, should they come to fruition, really do literally

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Speaker 9: lend their sort of lend to the president's ability to

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Speaker 9: confront China and the world's ability to confront China. So

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Speaker 9: I think it's a little short sighted just to look

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Speaker 9: at the language of the Communica because it was weak

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Speaker 9: and it wasn't as strong as it was last year.

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Speaker 9: But there were other things to come out of this

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Speaker 9: meeting as well.

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Speaker 2: We'll have a lot more time to get into this rick,

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Speaker 2: but in our minute that we have here, how concerned

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Speaker 2: are you about the way that communicate was finalized.

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Speaker 10: Yeah. Look, I mean I think they knew going in

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Speaker 10: it would be a challenge to try and get something

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Speaker 10: as strong as it was a year ago, especially as

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Speaker 10: it relates to the Ukraine and Russia.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 10: But look, I think people are really missing the importance

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Speaker 10: of Biden's trip to Vietnam. Yes, frontline of concern, trade,

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Speaker 10: investment in military with China, and I think that trip

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Speaker 10: alone probably was worth the price of admission.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

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Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

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Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: President Biden is making his way back to Washington from

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Speaker 2: the trip over the weekend of the G twenty, the

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Speaker 2: stop in Vietnam, and he's going to be stopping in

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Speaker 2: Alaska on the way, where we do expect remarks from

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Speaker 2: the potus on this anniversary of the nine to eleven attacks.

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Speaker 2: We talked about this the end of last week. Some

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Speaker 2: criticized the President for not being either at Ground zero

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Speaker 2: in New York, Shanksville, Pennsylvania, or here in Washington across

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Speaker 2: the river at the Pentagon. But of course the administration

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Speaker 2: was well represented in all of these areas. And we'll

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Speaker 2: talk a little bit more about the anniversary later this

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Speaker 2: hour in a special conversation with David Weston. As we

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Speaker 2: mentioned though, he's on his way back following the mission

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Speaker 2: to the G twenty and spoke in his news conference

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Speaker 2: in Vietnam about the problems facing China, generating headlines on

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Speaker 2: the terminal. The economic trouble in China may, in fact,

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Speaker 2: in his view, keep China from invading Taiwan. Here's what

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Speaker 2: he said.

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Speaker 3: He has his hands full right now. He has overwhelming

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Speaker 3: unemployment with his youth. One of the major economic tenets

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Speaker 3: of his plan isn't working at all right now. I'm

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Speaker 3: not happy for that, but it's not working. So he's

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Speaker 3: trying to figure out I suspect I don't know, just

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Speaker 3: like I would trying to figure out what to do

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Speaker 3: about the particular crisis you're having now. But I don't

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Speaker 3: think it's a crisis relating to conflict between China and

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Speaker 3: the United States. As a matter of fact, I think

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Speaker 3: it's less likely to cause that kind of conflict.

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Speaker 2: Less likely to cause that kind of conflict. And of

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Speaker 2: course Joe Biden knows a bit about what it's like

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Speaker 2: to deal with economic strife, referring there to the possibility

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Speaker 2: of him meeting with President She and exactly where our

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Speaker 2: relationship stands. We reassembled our panel. Rick Davis and Genie

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Speaker 2: Shanzano joined Bloomberg Politics contributors. What's your thought on that, Rick,

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Speaker 2: there was so much talk about who was not in

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Speaker 2: the room in the case of President She, President Putin

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Speaker 2: is Joe Biden corrects on this, The President She's got

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Speaker 2: his hands full to the point where he's not so

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Speaker 2: much of a threat.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I don't think you can diminish the threat just

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Speaker 10: by the fact that domestic economic circumstances and unemployment are

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Speaker 10: running rampant in Beijing. If anything, I mean, frankly, I

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Speaker 10: would worry more about that. I think domestic turmoil has

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Speaker 10: always been one of the contributors to adventurism around the world.

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Speaker 10: Try to take people's mind off of their own circumstance

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Speaker 10: by creating this nationalistic fervor that you know, allows you

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Speaker 10: to take an action. For instance, you know, an invasion

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Speaker 10: of Taiwan. So and by the way, I mean, I

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Speaker 10: think we've seen she talking a lot like that lately.

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Speaker 10: So I would be more concerned, not less concerned, by

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Speaker 10: an unstable domestic economic situation in China, and frankly shocked

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Speaker 10: that the president would think that China has taken its

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Speaker 10: eye off the ball at a time when all we're

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Speaker 10: talking about is their adventurism around the world.

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Speaker 2: What's your thought there, Genie. Does the economic trouble in China,

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Speaker 2: God knows, they've been trying to stimulate the economy to

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Speaker 2: come back to life here. Does it emboldened President She

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Speaker 2: or does it make him feel cornered?

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Speaker 7: You know?

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Speaker 9: I have to say I agree with Rick on this.

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Speaker 9: I think any time you're looking at a leader in

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Speaker 9: the model world who is having trouble domestically in at home,

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Speaker 9: there is always a concern that they look outward where

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Speaker 9: they can have more influence and can potentially change the

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Speaker 9: narrative at home. So I do think it is a

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Speaker 9: real concern. I was also real concern to hear the

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Speaker 9: Ministry of State Security say the other day that there's

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Speaker 9: a prospect that Ji may not come to the bilateral

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Speaker 9: meeting in November in San Francisco. You know that I

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Speaker 9: think is very troubling because you want there to be

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Speaker 9: conversation between the United States President and Ji Jinping. You

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Speaker 9: want that kind of high level diplomatic engagement, you know,

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Speaker 9: even if nothing comes of it. The fact that he

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Speaker 9: stayed away from India and now potentially may stay away

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Speaker 9: from the November meeting is I think another sign of

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Speaker 9: trouble as the US continues to, despite what the President says,

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Speaker 9: continues to befriend people right on his doorstep, something that

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Speaker 9: upset who in in the last twenty years, and something

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Speaker 9: that the US is now doing to China can have

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Speaker 9: a backlash effect as well. Not that we shouldn't be

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Speaker 9: doing it, but you've got to keep your eye on

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Speaker 9: how that's read in China. And so all of those

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Speaker 9: things I think are a real concern, not a reason

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Speaker 9: to say things are looking up from the perspective of

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Speaker 9: the US and China's relationship.

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Speaker 2: Well, the President's approach to China certainly getting a lot

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Speaker 2: of criticism from Republican presidential candidacies to soft on China.

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Speaker 2: Case in point, Nikki Haley, who talked about it on

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Speaker 2: Sunday morning on CNA.

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Speaker 11: How much more has to happen for Biden to realize

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Speaker 11: you don't send cabinet members over to China to appease them.

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Speaker 11: You start getting serious with China and say We're not

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Speaker 11: going to put.

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Speaker 8: Up with it.

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Speaker 11: They keep sending different cabinet officials over, Jake, and it's embarrassing.

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Speaker 11: You sent Ramondo right after she got hacked, her emails

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Speaker 11: got hacked by the Chinese. You sent all of these

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Speaker 11: cabinet officials over after Chinese spy Buloom went over our country.

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Speaker 11: They are putting a Chinese fib up on Cuba, off

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Speaker 11: the coast of Florida. And don't wait for the fact

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Speaker 11: that they are going to be sending Chinese military troops there.

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Speaker 11: What are we doing appeasing China?

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Speaker 2: Of course the White House Rick thinks it's avoiding conflict,

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Speaker 2: not appeasing China, but trying to keep the train on

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Speaker 2: the tracks here and not have a real cold war.

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Speaker 2: Who's right?

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Speaker 10: Look, I mean, whether we like it or not, I

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Speaker 10: mean China is acting very provocatively. Nikki Haley is absolutely right.

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Speaker 10: You know, their relations with the Solomon Islands is pressing

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Speaker 10: our Pacific presence. Their bases in Djibouti or military bases

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Speaker 10: their spy locations in Cuba. I mean, I'd ask Genie,

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Speaker 10: what the heck are we How can we get criticism

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Speaker 10: for going to places like Ukraine and Vietnam if this

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Speaker 10: is the actions of our chief competitor, China. Look, whether

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Speaker 10: we like it or not. And you can call it

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Speaker 10: a cold war, you can call it something else, but

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Speaker 10: we are in an active global competition for the favor

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Speaker 10: of nations that are free versus those that are associating

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Speaker 10: with with with dictators around the world. And and anybody

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Speaker 10: who doesn't think that this is an active competition is

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Speaker 10: misreading the tea leaves of the world movement right now.

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Speaker 10: And and so I really think that Nikki Haley nailed

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Speaker 10: it right. I mean, she knows that this competition exists.

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Speaker 10: She's seen it firsthand in the in the in the

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Speaker 10: Trump administration. And I think, frankly, is one of the

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Speaker 10: very few presidential candidates who's espousing a more robust and

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Speaker 10: capable US foreign policy. And and frankly, I'd much rather

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Speaker 10: see she standing next to Nicki Haley than to President Biden,

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Speaker 10: who somehow thinks that he deserves a break because he's

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Speaker 10: got a bad economy.

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Speaker 2: Well that look, that brings us to the issue of

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Speaker 2: the way he comported himself some of the things that

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden said on the visit. Genie, you can certainly

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Speaker 2: weigh in on what Rick said. But you know, if

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Speaker 2: you don't know whether it's morning or night, it is

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Speaker 2: a little bit difficult to express authority or to project power.

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Speaker 2: You might suggest you have this moment.

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Speaker 3: This around the world in five days is interesting.

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Speaker 2: It is evening, he said. He was even asked how

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Speaker 2: he was doing by a couple of reporters who told

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Speaker 2: him that it was in fact evening time.

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Speaker 8: Good evening, miss a president.

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Speaker 3: Are you thank you? These five day trips around the

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Speaker 3: world are no problem.

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Speaker 9: I can imagine it is the evening. I'd like to.

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Speaker 2: Remind you, these five day trips around the world no problem, Genie,

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Speaker 2: How did the president do? Did he just make his

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Speaker 2: life more difficult here? Because when we're talking about the

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Speaker 2: age issue, the cognitive issue, it's trips like these that

440
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 2: people have in mind.

441
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 9: That's right, But you know, listen, if any of us

442
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 9: went on a trip to India, to Vietnam and to

443
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 9: back to Alaska, did what the president has done in

444
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 9: five days, it's a long trip. I think he was

445
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 9: making the kind of Biden offhanded comments that he usually makes,

446
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 9: and it's no surprise for anybody who has followed him.

447
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 9: And I also don't think anybody can accuse Joe Biden

448
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 9: of not understanding the need to confront and contain China.

449
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 9: He is a president who has done that, arguably more

450
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 9: than any president in the modern era. Has turned our

451
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 9: attention from China. He's to China rather to the Asia Pacific.

452
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 9: He's gotten criticized today for not being here for nine

453
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 9: to eleven, but let's not forget he is willing to

454
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 9: take that hit because he is coming back from a

455
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 9: very important trip to India and to Vietnam to really

456
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 9: really make the case that we do have to focus

457
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 9: our attention not on the Middle East, where it has

458
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 9: been for the last twenty five years for good reason,

459
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 9: but to China, where we come front a big threat

460
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 9: and we have a big competition. So I think it's

461
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 9: shortsighted to say that he doesn't recognize that I do

462
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 9: agree with Rick on this. Members of his own party

463
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 9: are not clear about this. Let's just think back to

464
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 9: what Nikki Haley had to say to the vek Ramaswani

465
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 9: and others during the debate. So there is a debate

466
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 9: to be had in the Republican Party where they're even

467
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 9: debating today as they come back to the House whether

468
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,719
Speaker 9: to give Ukraine the money it needs to have this

469
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 9: confrontation with Russia. So those are things that the Republican

470
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 9: Party does have to work out. There's a lot more

471
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 9: unanimity on the side of the Democrats when it comes

472
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 9: to that.

473
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

474
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

475
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

476
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

477
00:24:54,800 --> 00:25:00,120
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

478
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: We've been talking a lot about China and the Biden

479
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,959
Speaker 2: administration's relationship or a lack thereof, with that country. It

480
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 2: was a very different look in Vietnam. After the President

481
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 2: left the G twenty, he went to Vietnam for a

482
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 2: brief set of meetings where they did announce a comprehensive

483
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: strategic partnership and enhanced trade relationship that puts the US

484
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: on par with China, which is something that the late

485
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 2: Senator John McCain spent years pushing for. As we reassemble

486
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: our panel with Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzana Bloomberg Politics contributors,

487
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: some pretty touching moments and pretty good optics. I would

488
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 2: argue for the President in Vietnam as he visited the

489
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 2: memorial to John McCain in Hanoi, he left a challenge

490
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: coin at the memorial later wreath and spent some time

491
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 2: talking with the two service members who was there. We

492
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 2: should note, by the way, that for Senator former Secretary

493
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 2: of State John Kerry, also of course a Vietnam War veteran,

494
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: was also with him at that moment. Rick, I suspect

495
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 2: that memorial wouldn't be there if it weren't in part

496
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 2: for your efforts. And I wonder your thoughts as you

497
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 2: see the President actually get business done in Vietnam that

498
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 2: John McCain would have loved to have seen himself.

499
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 10: First of all, I had nothing to do with that

500
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 10: memorial strictly, the Vietnamese government put that up.

501
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 2: How about that?

502
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 10: Because I would not want to be held to blame

503
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 10: for on that memorial. It refers to John McCain as

504
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 10: an air Force air pirate, and he didn't mind being

505
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 10: called an air pirate, but he did not like being

506
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 10: called air force. That's a Navy pilot. It was proud

507
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 10: of his wing and so look, I mean, John McCain

508
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 10: always had a fond memory of that lake because he

509
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 10: was his arms and knees were broken when he ejected

510
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 10: from his aircraft after being hit by a rocket and

511
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 10: he landed in the middle of that lake. And he said,

512
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 10: if not for the Vietnamese that pulled him out of

513
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 10: that lake beating and stabbing him, he would have drowned. So,

514
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 10: you know, he always had a kind of way of

515
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 10: looking at things from an optimistic point of view. But

516
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 10: I thought it was nice that the President stopped at

517
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 10: that memorial and showed his respect to John McCain. And

518
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 10: I think that, you know, it just betrays what we

519
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,719
Speaker 10: need more of in foreign policy, which is we can

520
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 10: debate all we want at home, but when it comes

521
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 10: to what we think the overseas prior as of our

522
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 10: country are, they should be together. And John McCain and

523
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 10: President Biden had a lot of disagreements, but ultimately when

524
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 10: they came together, they did good things. For the country abroad,

525
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 10: and we're on the same page more than they weren't.

526
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 10: So kudos to the present for taking time out of

527
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 10: his schedule to do that.

528
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 2: Genie, I'm struck by the name of Franklin Ford's book

529
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 2: about Joe Biden, the Last Politician, the optics of this

530
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 2: visit to the memorial Joe Biden coming to the aid

531
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: of Mitch McConnell, at least optically speaking again, when he

532
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: was asked by reporters about Mitch mcconnald's freezing up before

533
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: the cameras, it does feel like it's the end of

534
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 2: an era, or at least a generation in politics when

535
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: you see these events unfold before your eyes.

536
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 9: It absolutely does. And you know, I talk to students

537
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 9: every day between the ages of you know, seventeen to

538
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 9: twenty two, twenty three, and for them, I know we're

539
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 9: going to be talking about nine to eleven in a

540
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 9: little bit. You know, they weren't even born, many of

541
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 9: them when nine to eleven occurred, which is, you know,

542
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 9: hard to even wrap your head around. And as they

543
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 9: look at politicians like Joe Biden or Mitch McConnell or

544
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 9: Nancy Pelosi, or think about people like the former Senator

545
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 9: John McCain, these do seem like relics to a certain

546
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 9: extent from a past generation. I have to say I

547
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 9: really was thought it was very good visit to Hanoi.

548
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 9: The President described this as a historic moment overcoming a

549
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 9: bitter past, and that is an apt description. And for

550
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 9: Vietnam to put the US in its highest diplomatic category

551
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 9: on par with China, that is a big advance as well.

552
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 9: So everything from the discussion of semiconductors, the memoir of

553
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 9: Ulizing rather John McCain, those are all important, as was

554
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 9: the president's diplomatic outreach to Hanoi. These are a very

555
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 9: big steps forward for the President and for the United

556
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 9: States from a foreign policy and economic perspective.

557
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: We're going to bring in David Weston, as I promised

558
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 2: in just a moment, to talk with us on this

559
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,719
Speaker 2: September eleventh. I'd love to hear from both of you

560
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,959
Speaker 2: on what the President is and is not doing today. Quickly,

561
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 2: before we get to David Rick, is it a problem

562
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 2: that Joe Biden is swinging through Alaska on his way

563
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: back to mark this occasion instead of being at ground

564
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: zero at the Pentagon or in Shanksville.

565
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think that if the trade off was doing

566
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 10: as Genie described, you know, the work that he did

567
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 10: in Vietnam, I think it was well worth the trade off.

568
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 10: Joe Biden's been making these visit's on on nine to

569
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 10: eleven for twenty two years, and I don't think there's

570
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 10: any criticism that should be sent his way. This is

571
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 10: a day where, frankly, bipartisanship should reign supreme.

572
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, he will be delivering remarks, Genie. He is, in

573
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: fact paying tribute on this date. Does it matter where

574
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 2: you are as the commander in chief?

575
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 9: You know, I think ideally you do want to be

576
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 9: at one of the memorials, But he is one person.

577
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 9: He can't be everywhere. He made the hard decision to

578
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 9: do this very important foreign policy trip, and he sent

579
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 9: the vice president in his way to New York, so

580
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 9: you know, it's probably not exactly where he wants to be.

581
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 9: But he had to make a tough choice, like all leaders,

582
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 9: and he made it, and I think from everybody's perspective,

583
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 9: it is the right choice. But it is important that

584
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 9: he's going to stop and take time to remember the victims.

585
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Great to have you both here. Great Conversations Today

586
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 2: Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis, our signature panel on Sound

587
00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: on Bloomberg Politics contributors.

588
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

589
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

590
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on

591
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

592
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: The question you'll surely hear someone ask today, and maybe

593
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: you've been asked already in the office or as you're

594
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: going to the store or whatever your day includes here

595
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: is where were you on nine to eleven? For many,

596
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: the answer is at home, right. It was in the morning,

597
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: watching TV, watching morning shows like Good Morning America GMA,

598
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: where the anchors had no idea what was unfolding.

599
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 6: We want to tell you what we know as we

600
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 6: know it. We just got a report in that there's

601
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 6: been some sort of explosion at the World Trade Center

602
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 6: in New York City. One report said, and we can't

603
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 6: confirm any of this, that a plane may have hit

604
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 6: one of the two towers of the World Trade Center.

605
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 6: But again you're seeing the live pictures.

606
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 2: Here's David Weston was at work that morning, as we

607
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 2: hear Diane Sawyer talking there on GMA. David was the

608
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 2: president of ABC News, and he joins us right now

609
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 2: from New York to recall the events of that day

610
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 2: and what they would lead to. David, thank you for

611
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: being here. I'm so glad that you could join us.

612
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: You were watching GMA as the boss. What did you think?

613
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: What went through your mind when you heard Diane Sawyer

614
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: see this?

615
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 5: Well, it goes through my mind. Even as I listened

616
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 5: to it again, I remember it terribly well. I mean

617
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 5: I used to get in every morning before seven o'clock

618
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 5: because that's when Good Morning America came on the air,

619
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 5: and I watched like five or six monitors that I

620
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 5: had in my office to see whatever he was doing.

621
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 5: And I remember looking up when we were in commercial

622
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 5: break actually at GMA and seeing on CNN sort of

623
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 5: smoke coming out of a high level of one of

624
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 5: the trade towers, and I turned down that volume to

625
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 5: figure out was going on. At that point, nobody had

626
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 5: any idea what it was, but I called down to

627
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 5: control room and said, something's gone to the World Trades

628
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 5: and a get out of commercial, go to the full network.

629
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 5: And we went to the full network. Really as you

630
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 5: could hear from Diane, not fully where what had happened,

631
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 5: but there were reports there was an aircraft that are

632
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 5: going in and they went to full network mode, Special report,

633
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 5: we called it, and as they watched it was Die

634
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 5: Answer and Charlie Gibson. We all watched together as that

635
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 5: second airliner went crashing into the second tower, and Charlie said,

636
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 5: you know, it looks like an airliner has just gone

637
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 5: on the second tower.

638
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 2: What happens next in a situation like that? You know

639
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: people are watching the anchors, but there are dozens, if

640
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: not a couple of hundred folks behind them. What happened

641
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 2: internally at ABC News? Do you pick up the phone?

642
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: Who do you start calling?

643
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 5: Well, you get the desk is there, you get everybody

644
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 5: in as fast as you can figure out where people are. Frankly, Joe,

645
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 5: one of the first questions is where are people? Do

646
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 5: we have any people who are at risk down at

647
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 5: the World Trade Center? And where else could there be

648
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 5: an attack? I will say we were I'm not sure

649
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 5: fortunate is the right word, but we were in a

650
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 5: position to have an idea about Osama bin Laden and

651
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 5: al Qaeda because John Miller, who worked for US, had

652
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 5: tricked into Afghanistan about eighteen months before, and we had

653
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 5: aired what turned out to be the last Western interview

654
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 5: with Osama and Laana from his camp in Afghanistan. We

655
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 5: had covered that story, and I had talked frankly with

656
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 5: some senior military people in the months before, saying what's

657
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 5: the biggest threat we have? And they said, to a person,

658
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 5: it's a terrorist attack, And so we had I had

659
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 5: a pretty good sense pretty early on that it was terrorism,

660
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,959
Speaker 5: and then it was al Qaeda, So in that sense,

661
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 5: we had a little bit of a jump on it.

662
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 5: But then you figure out, how can you cover the

663
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 5: story as best you can? Who can you get down there?

664
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 5: Close follow on to that is, can we send them

665
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 5: down there safely? We had a whole discussion, not a

666
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 5: long one, but a discussion do they have to have

667
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 5: hazmat suits on? Because we're not sure what this was

668
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 5: and what the effects might be in the people in

669
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 5: their surrounding areas? How can we get video out of there.

670
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 5: We're a television organization, you got to get video audio.

671
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 5: We were fortunate because we had Don Daylor, one of

672
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 5: our orders, who actually lived near there, and he got

673
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 5: on the telephone pretty quickly.

674
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 2: Also turned out that you had a reporter pretty close

675
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 2: to the scene, but didn't realize following a series of

676
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 2: emails from what appeared to be a stranger, that George

677
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 2: Stephanopoulos was trying to get news to the news.

678
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 5: But you know, I'd forgotten about that, Joe, That's exactly right.

679
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 5: Por George was down there trying to get through, and

680
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 5: everybody thought he was it was a crank call. It

681
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 5: took quite a while to figure out that actually, yes,

682
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 5: George actually was nearby near ground zero, and he was

683
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 5: trying to report, and we finally got him in the

684
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 5: air and we got John Miller in the chair pretty quickly.

685
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 5: We stuck with Diane and with Charlie for about forty

686
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 5: or forty five minutes. Peter Jennings was in the building

687
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 5: and he was reluctant, frankly, to go on because he said,

688
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 5: they're doing such a good job. And I said, Peter,

689
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 5: I mean, you're a lead anchor. You got to get

690
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 5: in the chair. And he sat there with John Miller

691
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 5: and we covered. You know, we went on. We went

692
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 5: on right through till Saturday morning, no NonStop, no commercial breaks,

693
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 5: no nothing. But we covered it in part that first

694
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 5: day with John Miller tapping into police frequencies because he'd

695
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 5: been in the police department and he had a bunch

696
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 5: of buddies there and he was giving us a lot

697
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 5: of the reporting.

698
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: You mentioned. You try to find out who you have,

699
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 2: and you had a reporter on Air Force one. I

700
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: don't know how long it was before you were able

701
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: to make contact with Anne Compton David, but her story

702
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 2: is iconic.

703
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 5: Well, Ann Compton happened to be the radio pool that

704
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 5: day and wonderful radio longtime White House correspondent for ABC

705
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 5: News and ABC News Radio. And we all remember President

706
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 5: George W. Bush was in Floridas speaking actually to an

707
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 5: elementary school class when this all happened. We've all seen

708
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 5: that iconic video when they first told him what was

709
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 5: going on, and then they hurried everybody onto Air Force one.

710
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 5: President Bush made a couple of brief remarks. They hurried

711
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 5: him onto Air Force one because they wanted to get

712
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 5: him to make sure he was safe. They weren't sure

713
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 5: how to attack him, and so we just were told

714
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 5: Ann's on the plane. She called in. She said, we're

715
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 5: going wheels, but we don't know where we're going. I

716
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 5: don't know when I can talk to you, I'll let

717
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 5: you know. And so next time we heard from her,

718
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,479
Speaker 5: they had put down actually in Louisiana. As I recall,

719
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 5: the base was for refueling, and she gave us from

720
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 5: the tarmac a quick report on what was going on

721
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 5: on Air Force One. Then they took off again and

722
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 5: they went to another air base, and again she talked

723
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 5: to us from there. President Bush spoke from there because

724
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 5: he didn't make it back to Washington Action until that evening,

725
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 5: and then addressed the nation from the Oval Office.

726
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 2: That's incredible to think that you had people truly in

727
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 2: all the right places. You couldn't have planned it better

728
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 2: if you had been given a tip on this, David.

729
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: But I'm talking to you now as someone who our

730
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: viewers and listeners know as a journalist, as a broadcast

731
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: journalist and anchor, the guy who asks the questions you

732
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 2: were an executive at that point as the president of

733
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: ABC News. To what extent did the events of that

734
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 2: day in the following days inform your next career that

735
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 2: you now enjoy Well?

736
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 5: I think, as you know, Joe as well or better

737
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 5: than I do, everything you've ever experienced or known or

738
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 5: done informs what you do when you're in these jobs

739
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 5: on the air, it's a very different thing. One of

740
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 5: the wonderful experiences of being on the air, having spent

741
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 5: so much time I was there for fourteen years behind

742
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 5: the camera, is you have to understand of what else

743
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 5: is in the iceberg, the stuff below the surface. And

744
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 5: I'll give you a couple of examples. For example, one

745
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 5: of the first things we did was we marshaled as

746
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 5: much troops as we could get down to the hospitals

747
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 5: in the area because we were convinced there would be

748
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 5: all kinds of wounded coming in. And then as the

749
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 5: day unfolded, we realized nobody was coming because they were

750
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 5: all dead. And it was a terrible moment. Another moment,

751
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 5: an hour into it, I got a call in the

752
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 5: control room saying, there are people jumping from the towers.

753
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 5: Do we show it? And I said, no, you report

754
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 5: they're jumping, but you do not show because that's somebody

755
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 5: who loved one that they're seeing to commit suicide.

756
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 2: Essentially, just absolutely horrible to think that this happened, and

757
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: that we watched it as it was happening. David, it

758
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 2: was folks like you making those decisions, and I know

759
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 2: that you held an event with some children. I heard

760
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 2: you say about this school children, which was was a

761
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 2: Saturday morning show that Peter Jennings used to conduct, and

762
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 2: this was about telling them about what happened on nine

763
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 2: to eleven and showing them the actual video. They couldn't

764
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 2: discern between what was happening then and whether it was

765
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 2: real now. And I bring this to you because it's

766
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: something that every television news network has to grapple with

767
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 2: and some have annually shown the video of the towers

768
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 2: being hit, of people jumping, of the towers falling. You

769
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 2: made the decision not to do that, didn't you?

770
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 5: Now I did as a result of that townholl meeting

771
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 5: with the children. Peter Jennings was I think the best

772
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 5: breaking news anchor ever, but he was particularly gifted with

773
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 5: children and he wanted to do and we wanted to

774
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 5: do a special that Saturday to try to explain to

775
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 5: kids what had happened. And we actually had a professor

776
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 5: of tild psychology from Princeton there who said, one of

777
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 5: the things you have understand small children don't understand it's not

778
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 5: happening again. They think that every time they see it,

779
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 5: there's another building going down. And so from the car

780
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 5: on the way home, I got on the phone to

781
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,959
Speaker 5: the desk and I said, Okay, we will never show

782
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 5: moving video of that again on ABC News. We'll show

783
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 5: us still, but never moving video. Because at that point, Joe,

784
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 5: it had become almost like music. People were putting in

785
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 5: their bumpers, they were putting their promos. I mean, you

786
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 5: kept seeing these towers collapse and it wasn't telling anybody.

787
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 5: I mean, it wasn't communicating. It was just pure emotion.

788
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 5: And I said, we'll never do it again. And we didn't.

789
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 5: We never showed a moving image again because it wasn't

790
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 5: informing anybody. It was just pushing the buttons that we

791
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 5: didn't need to push.

792
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 2: I think that's incredible, and it's so important here while

793
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 2: we look back twenty two years later, because some networks

794
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 2: continue to show this in promotional framing. To your point,

795
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,760
Speaker 2: and I would say, this isn't just about kids, David.

796
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 2: I don't think adults in many cases are helped by

797
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 2: seeing that over again, are they?

798
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 10: No?

799
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 5: I don't think. So there's no information I'm getting. But again,

800
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 5: I want to go back to the relatives, the loved

801
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 5: ones of those people. They're watching their loved ones die,

802
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,479
Speaker 5: and you know, again and again, what are we getting

803
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 5: out of that? But I'll just add one of the

804
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 5: things that people may not understand. We spent hours that

805
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 5: day not being able to get any information of the government.

806
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 5: And now, in fairness, they didn't know what was going on,

807
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 5: but the President was in the air, the Vice President

808
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 5: was on some protected location beneath the White House, and

809
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 5: we kept trying to get anybody. If the government tell

810
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 5: us what's going on, we got silence. With one exception,

811
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 5: I'll give them great credit. George Pataki, the governor of

812
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 5: New York, would actually get on the phone and say,

813
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 5: this is what we know. Who we don't know because

814
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 5: we had reports coming in of all kinds of bizarre

815
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 5: things happening we couldn't confirm or deny. And the question

816
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 5: is do you report it?

817
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: Just the first thing you thought about when you woke

818
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 2: up today?

819
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 5: Of course, yeah, always always. But by the way, your

820
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 5: discussion about the President Biden not being in town. In

821
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 5: some sense, you know, it's kind of sad because we're

822
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 5: not making big deals. In some ways, it's healthy. We

823
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 5: need to go on, we need to remember, but we

824
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 5: need to recover. We need to go On. We couldn't live.

825
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 5: I couldn't live at that level of emotional distress that

826
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 5: we had in the days and the weeks and even

827
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 5: the months after nine to eleven. You have to get

828
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 5: over it and go on with your life sometime.

829
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 2: I can't thank you enough for sharing that with us,

830
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 2: David Weston, our dear friend at Bloomberg and of course,

831
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: one of many lives that changed that thing. Thanks for

832
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: listening to the sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe

833
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else

834
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,959
Speaker 2: you get your podcasts, and you can find us live

835
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 2: every weekday from Washington, DC at one pm Eastern Time

836
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com.