Speaker 1: Hey, this is Stephen Ferdick.
Speaker 2: I'm the pastor of Elevation Church and this is our podcast.
Speaker 1: I wanted to thank you for joining us today. Hope
Speaker 1: this inspires you. Hope it builds your faith.
Speaker 2: Hope it gives you perspective to see God is moving.
Speaker 1: In your life. Enjoy the message.
Speaker 2: Where would you expect to find Jesus on resurrection Sunday.
Speaker 2: You know, he's forty days away from ascending in to
Speaker 2: heaven and the Holy Spirit is coming to Jerusalem, So
Speaker 2: perhaps you would expect to find him in a place
Speaker 2: with stained glass windows. Would it surprise you to know
Speaker 2: that he went on the road, that Jesus Christ, the
Speaker 2: Son of God resurrected from the grave, who's certainly risen
Speaker 2: from the dead, has the power to call for any
Speaker 2: means of transportation. I mean, if I'm up from the dead,
Speaker 2: I'm getting an angel to give me a ride forget uber.
Speaker 2: I don't need lyft. I would want to ride in style.
Speaker 2: But Jesus sets out on this road. Touch somebody say
Speaker 2: walk with me. You sounded like you didn't really want
Speaker 2: to walk. You sounded like yeah, you sounded like you
Speaker 2: were headed somewhere. You didn't want to be touch them
Speaker 2: like you're going somewhere you want to go and say
Speaker 2: walk with me, Walk with me. That's really the invitation
Speaker 2: of the series. It's been turning my world upside down
Speaker 2: and really revolutionizing my walk with God. To see Jesus
Speaker 2: walking backward on the day that he got up from
Speaker 2: the dead, to see that he's not in Jerusalem where
Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit is coming. The place where he was
Speaker 2: crucified was the place where the promise.
Speaker 1: Is going to be released.
Speaker 2: The place where he suffered is going to be the
Speaker 2: place where the glory of God is revealed. And while
Speaker 2: waiting for that to happen, Jesus goes for a walk.
Speaker 2: Last week, we met an interesting character. Does anyone remember
Speaker 2: his name? Yeah, Cleo. We call him Cleo. The Bible
Speaker 2: calls him Cleopus, but we're friendly with Cleo, and so
Speaker 2: we gave him a nickname. And we were surprised that
Speaker 2: we have never met him before. And he's the first
Speaker 2: one that Jesus appears to. Well, I should give you
Speaker 2: a little bit more context than that. The women went
Speaker 2: that morning, because sometimes women have more faith than men do.
Speaker 2: They have the ability to feel God in ways. You know,
Speaker 2: when you get men to worship. It's like a miracle.
Speaker 2: Women will lift their hands. They just don't really have
Speaker 2: a problem coming into the presence of God. And sometimes
Speaker 2: a woman will have the kind of persistence and patience
Speaker 2: with a child. I thought y'all would back me up
Speaker 2: right here. I'm trying to give some some love to
Speaker 2: the women. But they went to the to remember to
Speaker 2: anoint Jesus's body, but his body wasn't there.
Speaker 1: And in some ways, I guess it was.
Speaker 2: An indictment that they thought he would still be there
Speaker 2: when he told them I'm getting up on the third day.
Speaker 1: They didn't really believe that.
Speaker 2: Even though they were sentimental, they had not yet experienced
Speaker 2: that kind of supernatural resurrection power that.
Speaker 1: Enables you to know that even if it seems.
Speaker 2: Dead, was dead, is dead, it doesn't have to stay dead.
Speaker 1: That's what resurrection tells me.
Speaker 2: That's why our logo as a church is a Neon logo,
Speaker 2: a Neon arrow pointing upward to let you know that
Speaker 2: wherever your life is today, love can lift you. Whatever
Speaker 2: bit you've fallen into. Loff can lift you, whatever time
Speaker 2: you've lost, whatever years you've wasted, Love can lift you
Speaker 2: whatever fear has held you down up until this point,
Speaker 2: the grave is empty. He has risen and we're going somewhere,
Speaker 2: going somewhere. So the women come to annoy in his body.
Speaker 2: But his body isn't there. Somebody say, it isn't there. Well,
Speaker 2: I feel excited today. God's gonna set somebody free. I
Speaker 2: feel it in every fiber of my being. God is
Speaker 2: going to set somebody free today.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, his body wasn't there.
Speaker 2: And okay, so his body isn't there.
Speaker 1: So he's up out of the grave. Where is he?
Speaker 2: Well, he kind of appears throughout the day, But I
Speaker 2: want to go back to where can I pick up
Speaker 2: where I left off last week?
Speaker 1: Don't worry about it. If you weren't here, I'll bring
Speaker 1: you in.
Speaker 2: So he walks with Cleo in this unnamed companion some
Speaker 2: scholar speculated.
Speaker 1: Could have been his wife.
Speaker 2: The text doesn't say that. The text doesn't give us
Speaker 2: the other name because sometimes it's not about you. It
Speaker 2: wasn't about revealing who the other person was. It wasn't
Speaker 2: even about Cleo. And Jesus is sneaking up behind two
Speaker 2: travelers who are disappointed and discouraged. Because God doesn't need
Speaker 2: for you to be happy to do work in your heart. Okay,
Speaker 2: he doesn't just hang out with people who pretend like
Speaker 2: they have it all together. Cleo is not only concerned,
Speaker 2: but in many ways he has crushed because his expectation
Speaker 2: of who Jesus would be, what he would do, wasn't
Speaker 2: met when he died on the cross.
Speaker 1: It crushed Cleo.
Speaker 2: And Jesus comes alongside the one who has crushed and
Speaker 2: his unnamed companion, and he walks with them away from
Speaker 2: the place where the promise will fall toward an unknown place.
Speaker 1: Well, it's unknown today.
Speaker 2: They knew where it was at the time, but it
Speaker 2: was so insignificant in that day. Because God doesn't just
Speaker 2: show up in big places and appear too important people.
Speaker 2: He might show up and speak to somebody in the
Speaker 2: back of the room, somebody in overflow, somebody who isn't
Speaker 2: even in the in the church building. They're in a
Speaker 2: hospital bed. He goes to this village called a Mais,
Speaker 2: and along the way, wouldn't it be awesome if Jesus
Speaker 2: himself preached to you. I mean, I know I'm pretty good, Stacy,
Speaker 2: but imagine so, y'all.
Speaker 1: You're walking.
Speaker 2: And Jesus comes up and doesn't ask if he can
Speaker 2: walk with you. He just starts talking and he asks
Speaker 2: him a question. Okay, listen before God gives you the answers.
Speaker 1: Sometimes he'll change your questions. Yeah, yeah, is it good?
Speaker 2: Mighty quiet in this church today? Sena is mighty quiet.
Speaker 2: Sina looks good. He shaved his head, looking like a
Speaker 2: UFC fighter, looking like a mixed martial artist. I mean,
Speaker 2: choking nobody, Sena. But he goes for a walk and hey,
Speaker 2: what you're talking about? And they tell him about their
Speaker 2: disappointment and he can handle it, doesn't chase them away.
Speaker 2: They tell them about their doubt and he can handle it.
Speaker 2: And that's revolutionizing me because I thought I had to
Speaker 2: have faith for God to meet with me. But I'm
Speaker 2: growing to understand that maybe maybe God's presence is most
Speaker 2: powerful when I get honest about my doubt, get honest
Speaker 2: about my pain, and seek him even still, maybe that's
Speaker 2: where I learn the most.
Speaker 1: When it doesn't go the way I wanted to.
Speaker 2: The detours, the details, the dead ends, the detours.
Speaker 1: Remember we said we want to see him in three D.
Speaker 2: So here's the Son of God walking with two travelers
Speaker 2: away from the destination. I'm supposed to be on that
Speaker 2: stage right now, But we're walking the wrong way.
Speaker 1: And as we're walking.
Speaker 2: As we're walking, he's talking and he explains to them
Speaker 2: all about himself. The Bible says that he started with
Speaker 2: Moses and the prophets, and he talks about maybe I
Speaker 2: don't know exactly what he said. The Bible just summarizes,
Speaker 2: but maybe he talks about the passover Lamb that Moses
Speaker 2: had the people prepare to celebrate and commemorate their coming
Speaker 2: out of Egypt and their forgiveness of sin. Now they're
Speaker 2: hearing about the Passover Lamb, but they don't know that
Speaker 2: they're standing with the passover Lamb. They won't recognize that
Speaker 2: right now, because usually you only recognize the full extent
Speaker 2: of what God was doing in reverse. So while you're
Speaker 2: on the road, you might not see it. But they
Speaker 2: keep walking. Touch somebody say keep walking, and Jesus is
Speaker 2: just talking, and they like his teaching and they're interested in.
Speaker 1: What he's saying. You know how I know.
Speaker 2: Because when they got to where they were going, the
Speaker 2: Bible says it was a seven mile journey, and that's
Speaker 2: why we're calling it seven mile miracle, and we're using
Speaker 2: it to look at the seven last statements that Jesus
Speaker 2: made on the cross that are recorded in the Gospels.
Speaker 2: But he went with them all seven miles. He went
Speaker 2: with them all the way to Amais. And when they
Speaker 2: got to the place where they thought they were going, okay,
Speaker 2: because they weren't going to stay there long.
Speaker 1: God will meet you where you are, but he won't
Speaker 1: leave you there. How good is this already? Man, this
Speaker 1: is the introduction. I got to my topic yet. Don't worry.
Speaker 1: I'll get you out on time. But I got something
Speaker 1: to say today.
Speaker 2: And as they walk, his words interested them. But when
Speaker 2: they got to the place where they were going, this
Speaker 2: village called Maaeus, the Bible says that Jesus acted like
Speaker 2: he was gonna keep going, because the journey starts where
Speaker 2: you are, but where it ends depends on you. And
Speaker 2: you decide whether you want your relationship with God to
Speaker 2: just be some superstitious thing, or whether you want it
Speaker 2: to be something so real that you fully surrender the
Speaker 2: operating system.
Speaker 1: Write that down.
Speaker 2: The Cross is my operating system. It is not an addition,
Speaker 2: It is not an accessory, It is not an app.
Speaker 2: It is the new way that I do what I do,
Speaker 2: whatever I do. It doesn't just change what I do
Speaker 2: on Sunday morning. It matriculates into my Monday, it transforms
Speaker 2: my Tuesday. It works on Wednesday, it comes through on Thursday.
Speaker 2: I follow him on Friday, and I'm still saved on Saturday.
Speaker 2: Because he's the god of all seven miles. How many
Speaker 2: have decided, I'm going all the way with Jesus. He'll
Speaker 2: began a good work with me. We'll be faithful to
Speaker 2: complete it.
Speaker 1: I'm not stop him where I started.
Speaker 2: Touch somebody said I'm going all the way, all the way,
Speaker 2: and they were like, hey, you want to eat something.
Speaker 2: Clio said, man, I mean we didn't really plan on
Speaker 2: a guest, but come on in. And where we left
Speaker 2: last week is that while look at verse thirty of
Speaker 2: Luke twenty four.
Speaker 1: I love this. This resurrection Sunday. Every day is resurrection Sunday.
Speaker 1: Every day is Easter at elevation.
Speaker 2: A miracle can break out in any heart, at any time,
Speaker 2: in any circumstance, in any grave.
Speaker 1: And so he sits down.
Speaker 2: And in a common experience of a shared meal, the
Speaker 2: Bible says, while he was at the table, because remember,
Speaker 2: they're interested in who he is, but they don't yet
Speaker 2: recognize who he is like, some of y'all who come
Speaker 2: here don't really believe this stuff yet, but you like
Speaker 2: the way it makes you feel.
Speaker 1: It's cool.
Speaker 2: You're not committed yet, but you're curious. You're like, that
Speaker 2: was kind of weird. That one thing. I want to
Speaker 2: go back. Yep, good because because he meets you where
Speaker 2: you are right and he sits down with him. Jesus Christ,
Speaker 2: the son of God, has time for a meal break
Speaker 2: on Resurrection Sunday, and the Bible says he just starts
Speaker 2: taking over. Okay, you've heard before that God is a
Speaker 2: gentleman and he won't come in if he's not invited.
Speaker 2: That's partially true. But once you let him in, he
Speaker 2: takes over. Be ready for that. He takes over. He says, down,
Speaker 2: he took bread, he just took it. And Cleo Clio's
Speaker 2: just watching. And this visitor, this traveling companion, becomes the host.
Speaker 1: In somebody else's house. And that's what happens when he comes.
Speaker 2: In your heart and when he takes the bread.
Speaker 1: And he gave thanks. So Mary taught him manners.
Speaker 2: Okay, he said, blessing before you eat, and he.
Speaker 1: Broke it.
Speaker 2: And he began to give it to them. We postulated
Speaker 2: last week that when verse thirty one says, it was
Speaker 2: then that their eyes were opened, and then that they
Speaker 2: recognized him. That perhaps the reason they saw his presence
Speaker 2: when he sat down with them and gave them the
Speaker 2: bread was not only that he broke the bread like
Speaker 2: they broke his body, but that when he gave it
Speaker 2: to them in Jewish custom of the bread was broken
Speaker 2: like this and given like this. And they saw where
Speaker 2: he was wounded, They saw where the nails were, and
Speaker 2: when they saw where the nails were, they realized who
Speaker 2: he was, which lets me know that sometimes the power
Speaker 2: of an example is greater than the power of an explanation.
Speaker 1: He walked with them seven miles.
Speaker 2: He walked with them for the entirety of their journey,
Speaker 2: and what his words could not show them they saw
Speaker 2: in his wounds. Graham was listening to the sermon, and
Speaker 2: you know, kids will just say.
Speaker 1: What they think he goes. How do you know?
Speaker 2: Because he he was pointing out to me that it
Speaker 2: doesn't say that they saw his scars in the text.
Speaker 2: And the more we got to talking about it, I
Speaker 2: realized the way he was thinking about it was like this, Well,
Speaker 2: if Jesus got up from the grave, and he has
Speaker 2: the power to overcome death. He wouldn't leave scars where
Speaker 2: the nails had been. You know, if God asked resurrection power,
Speaker 2: surely he do a little cosmetic surgery.
Speaker 1: So Jesus isn't having to.
Speaker 2: Walk around with some big holes in his hand or
Speaker 2: marks in the places where they had nailed him, where
Speaker 2: the Roman guard that was led by the Jewish leaders
Speaker 2: had crucified him, sentenced him to death, executed him for
Speaker 2: the sins of all menkind. Surely he wouldn't leave the scars.
Speaker 2: But I had to show Graham, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: show you today how I know they saw his scars
Speaker 2: because look, the Bible says, their eyes were open and
Speaker 2: they recognized him. They saw the one that was with
Speaker 2: them all along. But they saw him not in his words,
Speaker 2: but in his wounds.
Speaker 1: They saw him.
Speaker 2: Not because they heard the stone was rolled away, but
Speaker 2: because they were up close and personal with the one
Speaker 2: who had suffered. And when they saw where he suffered,
Speaker 2: they realized who he was. Then their eyes were open
Speaker 2: and they recognized him, and then he disappeared from their
Speaker 2: sight because that was never their destination.
Speaker 1: Look at verse thirty two.
Speaker 2: The scripture says, They asked each.
Speaker 1: Other, we're not our hearts burning while he talked.
Speaker 2: His words made their hearts burn, But it was his
Speaker 2: wounds that opened their eyes. There are some things that
Speaker 2: cannot be explained. They can only be experienced. And when
Speaker 2: I tell you that God is near to the broken heart,
Speaker 2: I can tell you that all day long.
Speaker 1: But it is not until your heart is broken.
Speaker 2: It is not until you are at the end of yourself.
Speaker 2: It is not until those who walked with you had
Speaker 2: turned their back on you.
Speaker 1: But God stood by your side.
Speaker 2: That you can say with confidence, the Lord is my helper.
Speaker 2: What can man do to me? I bear on my
Speaker 2: body the marks of the Lord Jesus.
Speaker 1: Let no man trouble me. I walked through the valley,
Speaker 1: I went through the shadow.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't with his words. It was where he
Speaker 2: was wounded. That's where they saw him. On the road.
Speaker 2: He opened the scriptures to us. And now they're excited,
Speaker 2: so they leave Amais. They got up and went back.
Speaker 2: God told me to tell somebody get up and go back.
Speaker 2: I know Jesus got up, but the reason he got
Speaker 2: up is not so you could stand around with sacramental
Speaker 2: spices and sing some sacramental songs to a stationary god.
Speaker 2: He got up so I could get up the same power.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm shouting for suffs inside of.
Speaker 1: Me makes me shot.
Speaker 2: Because I see you getting up, and I see you
Speaker 2: going back.
Speaker 1: I see you getting up. The prodigal son said, this.
Speaker 2: Is ridiculous for me to be down here with the
Speaker 2: pigs when my father owns the palace.
Speaker 1: Get up, go back. You don't need a speech. This
Speaker 1: is your second chance.
Speaker 2: They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem, and
Speaker 2: they retreaded the seven miles.
Speaker 1: This is the second seven miles.
Speaker 2: When they turned around, rerouted by the resurrection power of
Speaker 2: God revealed in the scars of the Savior. Thank you Lord,
Speaker 2: I feel his presence today.
Speaker 1: They got up. They went back.
Speaker 2: This is your comeback. Come back, Cleo, Come back, Cleo.
Speaker 2: The spirit is coming Come back, Cleo. God's not done
Speaker 2: with you yet. Come back, Cleo. They got up and
Speaker 2: they came back, and when they got there, they found
Speaker 2: the eleven. This is the disciples minus Judas. Judas didn't
Speaker 2: go so well for him. He didn't come back. But
Speaker 2: they were all assembled together, and when Cleo got there,
Speaker 2: they were starting to get the picture. Because Jesus had
Speaker 2: been appearing to them too, And now it all comes together,
Speaker 2: and now the ones who went away come back and
Speaker 2: the ones who stayed, they all get together and they say.
Speaker 1: It is true. The Lord has risen has appeared to
Speaker 1: Simon and Clio's like, yeah, me too. He showed me.
Speaker 1: We saw through amazing looking for thirty five. They were like, hey,
Speaker 1: we were on this road and he was telling my Moses.
Speaker 1: He thoughout the prophet. Do we even know he was
Speaker 1: can He took the bride and he took the brac cabs.
Speaker 1: The practice saw scars.
Speaker 2: That half when he broke the bread, he was recognized
Speaker 2: in the scars. How do you know he still has scars?
Speaker 2: Graham saying, Okay, here's what I know, because what Luke
Speaker 2: doesn't tell us, John does tell us. And I want
Speaker 2: to go there for a minute. Because it's resurrection Sunday.
Speaker 2: Now it's evening. It's been a long day for Jesus. Okay,
Speaker 2: you start off with a little exercise, pushed that stone
Speaker 2: out of the way, a little CrossFit. If you they
Speaker 2: take me for granted, that humor was epic. That is
Speaker 2: elite level preacher humor. Whether you recognize it or not.
Speaker 2: The Lord liked that joke. I never realized how funny
Speaker 2: the Bible is. Man, It's hilarious, it really is. That's
Speaker 2: something I didn't get because I always thought God was
Speaker 2: so serious.
Speaker 1: And I know, hey, I know it's serious as a
Speaker 1: matter of life and death. Trust me. Nobody takes more
Speaker 1: serious to me.
Speaker 2: But Jesus just messing around with people sometimes.
Speaker 1: Because watch this.
Speaker 2: It says on the evening of the first day of
Speaker 2: the week, this verse nineteen John, chapter twenty, same evening. Now,
Speaker 2: so Cleo is coming back, and the disciples were together
Speaker 2: with the doors locked for fear. See that's what fear
Speaker 2: will always do. It will always lock you in from
Speaker 2: the inside. They weren't locked out, they were locked in.
Speaker 2: We lock ourselves in because of fear. Remember that, that's important.
Speaker 2: They were locked in for fear of the Jewish leaders.
Speaker 1: Hey they might kill us.
Speaker 2: Hey, there's a rumor circulating that we stole the body.
Speaker 2: We better stay up here now now, Remember Cleo and
Speaker 2: his companion went the wrong way. But is it any
Speaker 2: better to stay in Jerusalem with the doors locked.
Speaker 1: Some people go away from God. Some people stay in church,
Speaker 1: but their.
Speaker 2: Heart is so locked they might as well, not.
Speaker 1: Even be there.
Speaker 2: It's about your heart. And Jesus, Jesus is so funny.
Speaker 2: Why says the doors are locked for fear of the
Speaker 2: Jewish leaders. And Jesus came and stood among them.
Speaker 1: How did he do it?
Speaker 2: He picked the lock. See, grace will break in the
Speaker 2: back door, kick the door down.
Speaker 1: Grace is a G. Grace will come on in, take
Speaker 1: on over.
Speaker 2: Take your bread, break your bread.
Speaker 1: Change your life.
Speaker 2: Jesus showed up and said peace, Grace is a G.
Speaker 2: Touch somebody said grace is a G. Hashtag Grace is
Speaker 2: a G. Just any way.
Speaker 1: In peace be with you.
Speaker 2: But watch this. After he said this, he showed them
Speaker 2: his hands and his side. Five wounds. Five is the
Speaker 2: number of grace.
Speaker 1: Just remember that. Five wounds in his.
Speaker 2: Sigh, in his hands, in his feet, five wounds. He
Speaker 2: showed him his hands, five fingers. He showed him his
Speaker 2: hands where the nails were, where the nails were. And
Speaker 2: I wonder did they have a flashback, because the first word,
Speaker 2: there are seven.
Speaker 1: We're going to get them all.
Speaker 2: This is the first word that Jesus spoke from the
Speaker 2: cross is a statement. He said, Father, forgive them, for
Speaker 2: they know not what they do, what a generous interpretation.
Speaker 2: When people insult me, I tell God, they know exactly
Speaker 2: what they're doing.
Speaker 1: And if I do forgive somebody, it takes me time.
Speaker 2: But while they were driving the nails, I'm flashing back
Speaker 2: now from the cross. I wonder when they saw his hands,
Speaker 2: did they remember his words? I wonder when they saw
Speaker 2: where he was wounded? Did they remember the words he spoke?
Speaker 1: Father?
Speaker 2: Forgive them, for they know not what they do, not
Speaker 2: what they did. But while they were doing it, he
Speaker 2: had the presence of mind to forgive, and he needed help.
Speaker 2: Even Jesus, perfect as he was, human as he was,
Speaker 2: knew that.
Speaker 1: He could not forgive without the help of his father.
Speaker 2: So as I think about forgiveness today, I wonder where
Speaker 2: you've been wounded, Jesus.
Speaker 1: That was in his hands.
Speaker 2: When they saw the hands, they realized this is not
Speaker 2: an impersonator.
Speaker 1: If this is not an.
Speaker 2: Impostor, they had to see something. They had to see
Speaker 2: something that let them know what he went through. And
Speaker 2: you keep trying to prove God's presence by your successes.
Speaker 2: But when it came time for Jesus Christ, the Son
Speaker 2: of God, to prove his presence, he said, look where
Speaker 2: the nails were see my hands. See where they drove
Speaker 2: the spikes between the bones so they would not break,
Speaker 2: so that it would support the weight of my body
Speaker 2: long enough for me to suffocate. See see it killed me,
Speaker 2: but I didn't stay dead. It broke me. But I
Speaker 2: am now whole. I was dead, now I'm alive. See
Speaker 2: my scars. My scars tell a story. I'm not ashamed
Speaker 2: to show my scars. Christianity is not cosmetic surgery, so
Speaker 2: you can hide what you've been through to try to
Speaker 2: get people to think you're perfect. Christianity. Jesus Christ didn't
Speaker 2: come to conceal the pain. He came to reveal his glory,
Speaker 2: and he showed it. It is stars, but there was one.
Speaker 2: God has always looked him for the one who wasn't there.
Speaker 2: And the Bible tells us that even though the eleven
Speaker 2: minus Judas got to see him, there was one who
Speaker 2: wasn't there, named Thomas. Can I talk about Thomas for
Speaker 2: one minute? Let me teach you about Thomas. Oh Man, Thomas.
Speaker 2: He gets a bad rap. They call him in the church.
Speaker 2: They call him doubting Thomas. Have you ever heard this before?
Speaker 2: Doubting Thomas? Because church people will label you by one
Speaker 2: moment in your journey, doubting Thomas adultery.
Speaker 1: Annie, I'll stop right there.
Speaker 2: Some things going through my head that would have to
Speaker 2: be edited out for you too, because light will label
Speaker 2: you by what you did, and the Bible gives us
Speaker 2: a little Only John tells us this, because John had
Speaker 2: the sensitivity to him.
Speaker 1: When you read his gospel, he tells you things other people.
Speaker 2: I'll mention he said, now Thomas, also known as Didimus.
Speaker 2: I mean, if we've just got to label Thomas a doubter,
Speaker 2: can we at least call him doubting Didamis because the
Speaker 2: alliteration works much better doubting Didimus. The Bible says that
Speaker 2: doubting did he one of the twelve.
Speaker 1: Was not with.
Speaker 2: Somebody say he wasn't there. So now Jesus and Thomas
Speaker 2: got something in common. When they went to look for
Speaker 2: Jesus that body, he wasn't there. When Jesus showed up
Speaker 2: alive and resurrected, Thomas wasn't there, and Thomas wasn't there.
Speaker 2: The Bible doesn't say why he wasn't there. I've always
Speaker 2: heard it preach like he wasn't there because he didn't
Speaker 2: have enough faith to be there, but the boys inside
Speaker 2: had the doors locked.
Speaker 1: They weren't any better.
Speaker 2: So if we're gonna give out nicknames, let's talk about
Speaker 2: Simon Peter inside with the doors locked.
Speaker 1: How about scaredy cat Simon Peter, scaredy Simon.
Speaker 2: How about locked door Levi, lock him up Levi?
Speaker 1: And doubting Dicky. And we all have dolves. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2: We all have scars, we all have dysfunction. You might
Speaker 2: have long sleeves, but if I could roll up your sleeves,
Speaker 2: you've been through something.
Speaker 1: You'll struggle with something. Your wife may not know it.
Speaker 2: But God goes, I gotta hurry, I gotta hurry.
Speaker 1: I'm getting really indulgent.
Speaker 2: I gotta get you out of here because the next
Speaker 2: crowd's coming in. Somebody somebody say, nails nails, nails nails.
Speaker 2: So the other disciple told him we have seen the Lord.
Speaker 2: But Thomas said, this is why I had come down
Speaker 2: in Thomas. I call him honest Thomas. I don't come
Speaker 2: him down in Thomas. I call him honest Thomas, truthful Thomas.
Speaker 2: Because Thomas is like, I'm not buying it. I'm not
Speaker 2: buying it. Off what you said, I need to see
Speaker 2: for myself. I got to see Jesus for myself. This
Speaker 2: has to be real to me. So hey, unless I
Speaker 2: see the nail marks in his hands, unless I see
Speaker 2: where he suffered, I will not believe in his glory.
Speaker 2: And unless I put my finger where the nails were
Speaker 2: and put my hand into his sigh, I won't believe.
Speaker 2: Watch Jesus. Now, I want to point out one thing
Speaker 2: in verse twenty six.
Speaker 1: Look at it.
Speaker 2: Seven days later, a week later, seven seven miles, seven days.
Speaker 2: God will leave you in a space where you don't
Speaker 2: understand to create faith in your heart. So Thomas says,
Speaker 2: I need to see the scars. Jesus could have showed
Speaker 2: up on the spot. He waited seven days. Jesus could
Speaker 2: have walked up to Cleo and said, see my scars.
Speaker 1: It's me. But sometimes he wants to let you walk
Speaker 1: and wonder and walk and wonder.
Speaker 2: Not because he doesn't love you, but because if your
Speaker 2: faith needs an explanation, it cannot sustain the trials of life.
Speaker 2: So he waits seven days. You'll help me ap preach this.
Speaker 2: He waits seven days. Have you ever had to wait
Speaker 2: seven days? Have you ever had to wait through a
Speaker 2: custody battle. Have you ever had to wait to see
Speaker 2: if this is ever gonna feel better? Have you ever
Speaker 2: had to wait through pain, wake through depression, wake through
Speaker 2: anxiety attacks, wake through bad reports, way.
Speaker 1: Through a newscast? Have you ever had to wait.
Speaker 2: There awaiting a waiting period? And then when Jesus shows
Speaker 2: up a week later?
Speaker 1: Seven?
Speaker 2: Everybody say seven, seven days, seven miles, seven days, seven miles.
Speaker 1: It's the number of completion. And then Jesus shows.
Speaker 2: Up, maybe just at that point where Thomas is tired
Speaker 2: of waiting. And the disciples were in the house again,
Speaker 2: and Thomas this time was there, and Jesus walks in.
Speaker 1: Look at the next part. Though the doors were locked, they.
Speaker 2: Still locked, the doors still scared, but they stayed, still scared.
Speaker 1: But they stayed.
Speaker 2: I still got some addictions, and I'm in church today.
Speaker 1: God can work with that. I'm still on the road.
Speaker 1: I don't get it, but I'm still.
Speaker 2: And this time Thomas was there. He's not gonna miss
Speaker 2: it this time. And Jesus came in, stood among them
Speaker 2: and said, peace, watch what comes next? You'll temmy, Hey diddy, hey, honest, Thomas,
Speaker 2: I heard you wanted to see my.
Speaker 1: Scars Now this is important.
Speaker 2: Put your finger here, where where the nails were?
Speaker 1: Isn't that what you needed to see?
Speaker 2: Thomas? Where the nails were? And I noticed something? He
Speaker 2: didn't say, where the nails are? You'll tell me.
Speaker 1: I'm back from the grave and I need you to
Speaker 1: see something.
Speaker 2: Look, Thomas, no more nails. Look, Thomas, they're not here.
Speaker 2: But your finger where the sin was. Put your finger
Speaker 2: where the shame was. Put your finger where they tried
Speaker 2: to crucify the creator of the world. No more, somebody
Speaker 2: shall no more nails, No more nails. In other words,
Speaker 2: what held me doesn't hold me anymore. I came to
Speaker 2: the clare. Today is the day of freedom.
Speaker 1: I wish you would push.
Speaker 2: Your neighbor to they almost fall over, and say, no
Speaker 2: more nails, No more nails. Now, I've heard so much
Speaker 2: any sermons about forgiveness, because we've all been wounded. Raise
Speaker 2: your hand if life hasn't wounded you yet. I want
Speaker 2: to see where the liars are in the church, because
Speaker 2: I want to have a special prayer for all the
Speaker 2: liars who would have the audacity to lie in the
Speaker 2: presence of God and act like you haven't been wounded.
Speaker 2: We've all been wounded, rock Hill, Gaston County.
Speaker 1: It don't matter Toronto, Canada. You can't.
Speaker 2: You can't walk the road without being wounded. You can't
Speaker 2: go to church without being wounded.
Speaker 1: Faked, I'm mad. That's why I have that gange. Faked.
Speaker 2: I'm a I was in a church one time and
Speaker 2: the preacher got on to sing about wounds. And it
Speaker 2: was so weird, y'all, because he was like he was.
Speaker 2: He was preaching about wounds. His thing was trying to
Speaker 2: get everybody go back and remember all the ways they've
Speaker 2: been wounded throughout their whole life. He had me thinking
Speaker 2: of stuff in the third grade, just the craziest stuff
Speaker 2: like that was going to bring healing. Look at this,
Speaker 2: Jesus didn't show Thomas his wounds. He showed him his scars.
Speaker 2: There is a difference between being wounded and being scarred.
Speaker 1: That's good.
Speaker 2: That's good. So when I prayed about this first word
Speaker 2: of forgiveness, the Lord told me to talk to you
Speaker 2: about the nails, whatever has wounded you, whatever you hide,
Speaker 2: whatever happened. See when Jesus shows Thomas his scars, I'm
Speaker 2: glad he kept his scars. I'm glad he kept that
Speaker 2: part I'm glad he didn't stay dead, but I'm also
Speaker 2: glad that he came out scarred because that gives me hope.
Speaker 2: And that's how I try to preach. I don't want
Speaker 2: to preach wounded, because if I preach wounded, I'm going
Speaker 2: to inflict my pain on you.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to be a wounded parent. I
Speaker 1: don't want to be a wounded spouse. I don't want
Speaker 1: to walk around. God spoke to.
Speaker 2: Me a couple months ago and he said, if I've
Speaker 2: really healed you like you claim I have, why are
Speaker 2: you still so touchy? Thomas said, I want to see
Speaker 2: where the wounds were. And when I teach pre cherch
Speaker 2: Jonathan can tell you.
Speaker 1: I tell him.
Speaker 2: Don't you get up and tell the church all the
Speaker 2: ways that you woke up at five thirty am. And
Speaker 2: you know, if I put you in my puppet show
Speaker 2: the church some of your scars, you can show them
Speaker 2: the stones that God has rolled away. That's fine, that's
Speaker 2: the part of it. He is a god of miracles,
Speaker 2: he is a god who makes dreams come true. And
Speaker 2: we've all got some stones that he's rolled away. But
Speaker 2: we've all got some scars too, So show them your scars.
Speaker 2: Show them where you didn't get up at five thirty.
Speaker 1: In fact, show him.
Speaker 2: Where you pretended like you didn't hear the baby crying
Speaker 2: at five thirty got up.
Speaker 1: Tell them that story. Tell them how you almost quit.
Speaker 2: Tell them how you wanted to throw up the first
Speaker 2: week you went out to preach after the news media
Speaker 2: ran a story about you for four days straight saying
Speaker 2: things about you.
Speaker 1: Tell them that.
Speaker 2: Tell them how you were in the bathroom and you
Speaker 2: came out smiling. Show them where the wounds were, and
Speaker 2: it'll give them hope that what wound did me doesn't
Speaker 2: have to hold me forever.
Speaker 1: Come on, it's time to be free.
Speaker 2: It's been long enough, it's been seven days. Forgiveness doesn't
Speaker 2: mean it didn't happen. The scar shows it happened. Jesus
Speaker 2: didn't show up and say what Cross? What to talk
Speaker 2: about Cross? I don't remember Cross. I heard a preacher
Speaker 2: say one time, this guy's an he should have his
Speaker 2: credentials revoke. He said, if you've really uh, let's get
Speaker 2: a preacher voice going, if you've really forgiven someone in
Speaker 2: your hearts, you will not even remember the offense. There
Speaker 2: is a word that comes to my mind to describe
Speaker 2: what he said, but I'm gonna just say it's it's inaccurate.
Speaker 2: It's not denial when I say forgiveness, because I gotta
Speaker 2: be careful because I'm a pastor, right, I'm not just
Speaker 2: passing through preaching one week leaving.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to just get something.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to go on a journey with you and
Speaker 2: to let you know that when you when you let
Speaker 2: go of whatever wounded you so that you can be
Speaker 2: free and go into the.
Speaker 1: Future God has for you.
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that you pretend it never happened. This
Speaker 2: is not denial. The nails were there. My dad walked
Speaker 2: out on.
Speaker 1: Me, not my dad. I'm saying that you could say my.
Speaker 2: Mom had an impossible standard that I could never live
Speaker 2: up to, and I believe that part of my eating disorder.
Speaker 1: Today has to do with that.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I can't let
Speaker 2: it hold me. I cannot blame her forever, not if
Speaker 2: I'm a Christian, not if I am a Christian, not
Speaker 2: if I worship the one who was wounded for my transgression. See,
Speaker 2: I need to let you know something because the hardest
Speaker 2: person you'll ever forgive. Is not your ex, is not
Speaker 2: your mom, is not your dad. It's not your neighbor
Speaker 2: who came over your fence and your property line. The
Speaker 2: hardest person you will ever have to forgive is yourself.
Speaker 1: See the truth be told.
Speaker 2: It is my self inflicted nails that I have the
Speaker 2: hardest time.
Speaker 1: Letting go off.
Speaker 2: But I want the devil to know when he comes
Speaker 2: to hammer at me with accusation. I don't know where
Speaker 2: you go when that start to happen, how worthless you are.
Speaker 2: Have you noticed the devil loves to hammer you, and
Speaker 2: he's got a big hammer. But let me tell you
Speaker 2: a little secret. He ain't got no more nails. Somebody
Speaker 2: shout no more nails?
Speaker 1: Do that, Sime?
Speaker 2: The devil hammers you with accusations, shout back in his face,
Speaker 2: she got no nails. All my nails are in that cross.
Speaker 2: All my shame is on that cross. Somebody shouting no
Speaker 2: more nails. There is therefore now no condemnation for those
Speaker 2: who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus, the
Speaker 2: law of the spirit of life has set me free
Speaker 2: from the law of sin and death. The devil might
Speaker 2: have a hammer, but he doesn't have any nails, breaks.
Speaker 1: Out in touch the place.
Speaker 2: Where the nails were, where they were. It doesn't mean
Speaker 2: it didn't happen. It happened. I fell sure it happened.
Speaker 2: I ruined the relationship.
Speaker 1: It happened. They abused me in ways that I don't
Speaker 1: even want to tell my own spouse. It happened. I
Speaker 1: deal with the traumatic rememorancy.
Speaker 2: It's not that it didn't happen, and it's not that
Speaker 2: it doesn't hurt. That's not what forgiveness is. Forgiveness doesn't
Speaker 2: mean it it doesn't hurt.
Speaker 1: I mean the nails might be gone, but the memory
Speaker 1: is still there. And it's really easy.
Speaker 2: To forgive sometimes when the person that you're forgiving is gone,
Speaker 2: but when you still have to work I'll share custody,
Speaker 2: when you still have to live with the memory, when
Speaker 2: you still can't be touched without recalling the shame of
Speaker 2: when you were touched the wrong way, and now you're
Speaker 2: trying to learn how to love the right way, when
Speaker 2: you're trying to learn how to trust.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean it won't hurt.
Speaker 2: Away with the preaching that will teach you that the
Speaker 2: pain will go away when you forgive the offense. It's
Speaker 2: not that the pain goes away. I'm helping somebody, I'm
Speaker 2: setting somebody free. You keep waiting for the feeling of
Speaker 2: forgiveness to come.
Speaker 3: It's not a feeling. It takes faith. I said, it
Speaker 3: takes faith. I said it takes faith. I said it
Speaker 3: takes faith. It takes faith to believe.
Speaker 2: That the same place where the nails were is the
Speaker 2: same place where the healing is.
Speaker 1: They saw it in a scarce.
Speaker 2: Jesus needed those nails. If they had nailed him to
Speaker 2: that cross, if they had, if they hadn't punctured, if
Speaker 2: the blood didn't flow from that place, the power wouldn't
Speaker 2: be released. I'm saying not that God's gonna take the
Speaker 2: scar away, but that he is going to release the
Speaker 2: greatest strength in your life from the place where the
Speaker 2: nails were.
Speaker 1: Come on, shout no more else. It's a declaration. Doesn't
Speaker 1: mean it didn't happen. It happened. They bullied you, it happened.
Speaker 1: They lied about you.
Speaker 2: By the way, not only have you suffered some wounds,
Speaker 2: but you've inflicted a few two. And it's kind of
Speaker 2: crazy how we can be comfortable putting all of our
Speaker 2: nails in Jesus cross, but then walk around with a
Speaker 2: pocket full of our own to put in other people.
Speaker 1: If all my.
Speaker 2: Nails are in his cross, that means all of yours
Speaker 2: are too. I cannot demand to receive a grace from
Speaker 2: God for me that I will not give to you.
Speaker 2: And so what it means, what it means isn't that
Speaker 2: it didn't happen. What it means isn't that it didn't hurt.
Speaker 2: What it means is not that I won't handle it.
Speaker 2: I might not be able to be friends with you
Speaker 2: in the same way anymore because I might not be
Speaker 2: able to trust you. Forgiveness is not the same as reconciliation.
Speaker 2: Don't go email in your ex on message them on
Speaker 2: Facebook when you're married now for twelve years talking about
Speaker 2: will you forgive me?
Speaker 1: In the still of the night, into the road.
Speaker 2: Flashbacks to prom It's not that things won't be different.
Speaker 1: It's not that I won't handle it. But Thomas, I
Speaker 1: want you to put your finger in the place where
Speaker 1: I was held to the cross, and I want you
Speaker 1: to know that what held me doesn't hold me anymore.
Speaker 1: That's what forgiveness is. Friends.
Speaker 2: It's not that it didn't happen. It happened, and it
Speaker 2: was horrible. It's not that it doesn't hurt, It's just
Speaker 2: that I'm not going to live in the offense any longer.
Speaker 2: I've been wounded long enough. Why would I choose to
Speaker 2: stay wounded when healing is in his hands? Why would
Speaker 2: I keep nailing you to cross when it's only hurting me.
Speaker 2: Somebody say, no more nails, No more nails. The spirit
Speaker 2: of God is in this place. No more nails. It's
Speaker 2: all in the cross, all my past, all my shame,
Speaker 2: it's all in the cross.
Speaker 1: No more nails. To be free, I.
Speaker 2: Gotta let go, and I declare over your life today.
Speaker 2: Not that it won't ever hurt again, not that some
Speaker 2: things won't need to change, not that it won't be
Speaker 2: a process.
Speaker 1: Remember this is only my one of our journey.
Speaker 2: But if you will put your nails in that cross
Speaker 2: and trust what Jesus proved that all things, somebody shot
Speaker 2: all things, even the nails, even judas, even that. I
Speaker 2: talked to a woman who went through the most traumatic
Speaker 2: childhood experience you can disc I wouldn't put it in
Speaker 2: this sermon because there are kids who came in.
Speaker 1: But what she went through was so horrible.
Speaker 2: Yet she was able to look at me in the
Speaker 2: eye and say, although I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Choose it, and although I'm not saying.
Speaker 2: It was okay or that it was right or that
Speaker 2: God did it, I'm not trying to justify it when
Speaker 2: I see how God has used even the things that
Speaker 2: I wouldn't choose. It's not that I wanted it to happen.
Speaker 2: It's not that it doesn't hurt. I'm not gonna fake.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna live in denial. I'm not gonna stay
Speaker 2: in dysfunction. I'm not gonna but I I wouldn't trade
Speaker 2: my scars for anything, because my scars.
Speaker 1: Are the proof of his power. Yeah I got scars.
Speaker 1: Yeah I went through it.
Speaker 2: Yeah it hurt like hell. Yes they drove the nails.
Speaker 2: Yes it was offensive, and yes it was wrong.
Speaker 1: But no, I won't stay here.
Speaker 2: No, I won't sacrifice my future on the altar.
Speaker 1: Of my past. No more nas. I'm coming out.
Speaker 2: I'm coming out. Come on, shot like your fred, shot,
Speaker 2: like your freends. How long do you want to stay wounded?
Speaker 2: How long do you want to stay stuck? It happened.
Speaker 2: I'm not living in denial it hurts. I'm not going
Speaker 2: to live defensive, pretending it doesn't hurt, and I have
Speaker 2: to handle it. I'm not gonna live in dysfunction, enabling
Speaker 2: dysfunctional situations and calling it forgiveness.
Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna stay here dead. When he is risen,
Speaker 1: no one else, no more else.
Speaker 2: He is going on the cross today, all of it,
Speaker 2: all of it, the sin you did, the sin that
Speaker 2: was done to you, is all going on the same
Speaker 2: cross today. And all things, even the scars, not just
Speaker 2: the stone, but the scars, all things will work together.
Speaker 1: For the good.
Speaker 2: Look, Thomas, it doesn't hold me anymore, Thomas. Your doubt
Speaker 2: doesn't have to hold you anymore. Look, Thomas, touch you
Speaker 2: see my scars. You see my scars. I know you
Speaker 2: got some mounds. They've been open long enough.
Speaker 1: It's time. It's time, Thomas.
Speaker 2: I know you're not over it yet, you may never
Speaker 2: feel completely over it, but you gotta move on.
Speaker 4: You can't stay like this forever. You can't stay angry
Speaker 4: about it forever. You gotta get going.
Speaker 1: Lift your hands, lift your hands, thank you for joining us.
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Speaker 1: Thanks again for listening. God bless you.