1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is the Bloomberg 2 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: Surveillance Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at seven am Eastern 3 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: on Apple car Play or Android Auto with the Bloomberg 4 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 2: Joining us Michael Mullen. 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 3: He will always be Adam Mullin's seventeenth Chairman of the 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 3: Joint Chiefs of Staff and someone that pioneered all sorts 9 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 3: of transition in a Pentagon. This will be a good, 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 3: lengthy conversation and we're privileged by that today. How did 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 3: you find Lloyd Austin, the former Secretary of Defense? You 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 3: brought him up through the ranks. How did you find 13 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 3: someone like Lloyd Austin? Process? 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 4: He was a three star when I met him, so 15 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 4: he'd already along. 16 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 5: With the ranks at that point. 17 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 4: But actually he was the ground commander in Iraq when 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 4: I was Chairman on a visit, and I would go 19 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 4: into theater about once every quarter, and that's where I 20 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 4: met him and spent the better part of a day 21 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 4: in an evening with him, and of all of the 22 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 4: ground commanders that I had run into, I just found 23 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 4: him to have a more comprehensive view of ground, the 24 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 4: ground warfare, and the requirements and the execution all the 25 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 4: way from northern Iraq down to. 26 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 5: Basra, southern Iraq. 27 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 4: And when I returned to Washington, I good friend of 28 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 4: mine was the chief of Staff of the Army, George Casey. 29 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 4: And I asked Casey, I said, is Austin on your list? 30 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 4: And he said no. I said, put him. 31 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 6: On the list. 32 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 2: And that was a command. 33 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 5: And to give George credit, he did. 34 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 4: And then I but then I brought him in to 35 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 4: work for me Lloyd, because one thing to sort of 36 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 4: spend a day and understand that. But and so he 37 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 4: was the senior officer three star on the Joint Staff, 38 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 4: the director of the Joint. 39 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 5: Staff, and he was extraordinary there. And then obviously from there. 40 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 3: Erymull and I've got to ask a question, I'd say 41 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 3: to other friends of surveillance. I think of General Kimmitt, 42 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 3: General Ben Hodges, obviously Stravet assistant. So much for us 43 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 3: and for the nation, is well the state of our 44 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 3: Pentagon today? What can you report about our officers and 45 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,119 Speaker 3: gentlemen and gentlewomen. 46 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 4: I should well, is a what's the state appen It's 47 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 4: a time of great change. Obviously there's a there is 48 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 4: a with a new administration and a new secretary, you know, 49 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 4: a significant change in focus. I still think it's relatively 50 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 4: early days. I think with that kind of change there 51 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 4: there comes a great deal of uncertainty. There certainly has 52 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 4: been concern with a number of officers who have senior 53 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 4: officers who've been either retired or retired on their own volition, 54 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 4: or have actually been fired. And the uncertainty that comes 55 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 4: with that is something that's that's I would say normal, 56 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 4: not that the firings are, but normal and you know, 57 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 4: where do we go from here kind of thing. It's 58 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 4: very clear, and I think the operations there are recent 59 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 4: strike operations in the Caribbean or an example that there 60 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 4: is there is more of a local focus in terms 61 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 4: of the capability. I mean when I was there, and 62 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 4: it's been a while now, but this was the most 63 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 4: extraordinary military in the history of the world. 64 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 5: It still is. 65 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 4: But I would say more than anything else right now, 66 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 4: there's just a lot of uncertainty about about where we're headed. 67 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 7: So that probably starts from the very top with this president. 68 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 7: This president seemed to be making America great again. America first, 69 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 7: that suggests that perhaps the US is or will be 70 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 7: or has withdrawn from some of its commitments. How do 71 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 7: you view our commitments to Natar, commitments to our friends 72 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 7: around the world, our allies, our historic allies around the world. 73 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 4: I'd almost reverse the question in terms of those we 74 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 4: have been committed to. How do they see us in 75 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 4: the future, And it's the same, I'd answer it with 76 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 4: the same word. There's a lot of uncertainty about our commitments, 77 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 4: a lot of uncertainty about where we're headed. I think 78 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 4: clearly there is a or there will be. It looks like, 79 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 4: you know, a significant reduction in those commitments around the world. Listen, 80 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 4: when I was chairman, I was one, and I spent 81 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 4: a lot of time in NATO, and I was one 82 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 4: of those individuals that argued strongly for significantly increasing the 83 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 4: commitments of our NATO partners, and they didn't do that. 84 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 4: You know, I'd give President Trump a lot of credit. 85 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 4: He clearly has their attention. They clearly are committed at 86 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 4: a time also where particularly in Europe, you know, it's 87 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 4: quote unquote war on the continent, which we've feared for decades. 88 00:04:58,480 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: Let's go there right now. 89 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 3: We'll with us Michael Mullen with us an extended conversation 90 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 3: here at the Bloomberg Global Forum. Paul Smenia and Tom 91 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 3: Keen across this nation, across Canada, thank you for listening. 92 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: Good Morning ninety nine one FM at the Pentagon in Washington, 93 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 3: and good Morning on YouTube across the nation. 94 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 7: Paul Admiral talk to us about how you think we 95 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 7: should What do you think the policy should be as 96 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 7: a relates to Ukraine. I mean, it seems like an 97 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 7: intractable situation there, but the policy seems to be shifting 98 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,559 Speaker 7: almost on a daily basis here and I guess that's 99 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 7: more uncertainty for all those involved as well. 100 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the way I've looked at this, and 101 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 4: this is really since the Ukraine, since Putin invaded. I 102 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 4: think Putin's the most dangerous guy on the planet. Have 103 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 4: thought that for a long time. He has actually overseen 104 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 4: a Russian resurgence that many of us thought could not 105 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 4: take place. And my friends in Europe in particular consider 106 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 4: this an existential threat because it's not just going to 107 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 4: stop with Ukraine. Putin isn't going to stop with Ukraine. 108 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 4: My friends historically and the Baltics that are always nervous 109 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 4: on the best day, on their best day, they were 110 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 4: nervous that Russia would soon be coming their way, in 111 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 4: addition to some of the larger countries like Poland for example, 112 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 4: So there's huge concern over there, and I think it's 113 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 4: a you know, we're at a really important inflection point 114 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 4: about are we going to support our European friends and 115 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 4: in particular Ukraine, or are we going to let Putin 116 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 4: march on? And I think he without the US, he 117 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 4: will continue to march on. 118 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: Edroll I would suggest. 119 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 3: I mentioned this yesterday with Jen's Nordvigan, who's expert on 120 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 3: foreign exchange. He's from Copenhagen in Denmark, and I informed 121 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,799 Speaker 3: that that I think most Americans would know the Baltic 122 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 3: Sea if you know, they got a map out, including 123 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 3: the President of the United States. If you were back 124 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 3: running a gasoline tanker the USS Naxibi. Did I pronounce 125 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 3: it right? Would you take it into the Baltic Sea 126 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 3: right now? 127 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd be comfortable with that. 128 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 3: What is our of about a sea we don't even 129 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 3: know about, other than it's somewhere near a good dinner 130 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 3: in Coconhata. 131 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 4: Well, there's a lot of people actually in the military 132 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 4: and certainly the Navy that we know a lot about, 133 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 4: but Americans still understand that. And I think back to 134 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 4: the challenge in Europe. There's no better indication of the response, 135 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 4: the fear and the response than Finland and Sweden literally 136 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 4: joining NATO overnight. 137 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 5: I know those countries. 138 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 4: Well, they are historically very neutral, did not want to 139 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 4: join NATO and just overnight particularly, and obviously they live 140 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 4: in the Baltic area and that's the concern, and so 141 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 4: I think Europe's going to have to come together more 142 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 4: with respect to that space, and they do not. The 143 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 4: Nordics have always handled Russia pretty well, but that change 144 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 4: was a sea change from my perspective, and an indication 145 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 4: of how serious this threat is. 146 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 6: China. 147 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 7: What should the policy be here, How should we think 148 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 7: about China over the next several years. 149 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 4: Our relationship with China has been deteriorating over the last 150 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 4: ten years, twelve years, and the way I've felt about 151 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 4: this is unless our president and the president of China 152 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 4: tend to this relationship, we will continue to come apart 153 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 4: across the board. I'm hugely concerned about it. It is 154 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 4: the one existential threat to the United States of America 155 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 4: and to the western world, China and where Shishinping goes, 156 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 4: and what he does matters greatly. I'm somewhat comforted by 157 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 4: the interaction of our economies, the interdependence of our economies, 158 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 4: which I think can bound how strongly we would react 159 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 4: in terms of whether there would be conflict or not. 160 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 4: But those two individuals need to manage this relationship, and 161 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 4: if they do, I think it get better. If they don't, 162 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 4: it's going to get worse. 163 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 7: What do you think, presidents she's I guess global ambitions 164 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:56,719 Speaker 7: are are they regional too? 165 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 5: I think he starts regionally. 166 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 4: I think that part of the world, but clearly he's 167 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 4: invested globally, you know, around the world. And in many 168 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 4: ways he's copied us. You know, he's copied what the 169 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 4: United States has done since the early nineteen hundreds, including 170 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 4: the South China Sea in the early nineteen hundreds, we 171 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 4: wanted to figure out how to take care of our 172 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 4: home waters in the Caribbean. So he continues to copy us. 173 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 4: His military continues to grow. He's got a lot of 174 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 4: churn in the military. He has fired a lot of 175 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 4: his senior officers, so I don't know how much he 176 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 4: trusts his military leadership. But I back to what I said, 177 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 4: I think it's got to be our president and their 178 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 4: president that make sure nothing bad really happened. 179 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 2: Michael Mullin with us here. 180 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 3: The Admiral of course, in the seventeenth Chairman of the 181 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 3: Joint Chiefs of Staff, Robert T. Kaplan the number of 182 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 3: years ago. I throw it at kids, I say, shut 183 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 3: up and read this. It's Asia's cauldron and the South 184 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 3: China Sea. What is our submarine capability with that island 185 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 3: off China where they they're building subs and building up. 186 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 5: What is their capability? 187 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: What is our capability in the South China Sea? 188 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 4: Right now most important weapons system in the United States 189 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 4: military with respect to China as our submarine force, and 190 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 4: we need to continue to build it. China is obviously 191 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 4: understands a lot of that. But I mean, when the 192 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,719 Speaker 4: Wall came down in the late eighties, it turns out 193 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 4: the Soviets were not ten feet tall. The Chinese are 194 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 4: not ten feet tall. So they've got huge challenges. We 195 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 4: know that, but that capability, that underwater capability, threatens them. 196 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 3: Back to Lloyd Austin, to General Austin, the basic idea 197 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 3: of the Americans considering four bases in the Philippines with 198 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 3: young Marcos, what does that sea change on the Pacific 199 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 3: rim of our showing the flag in the Philippines. 200 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 4: It's huge and it sends a very strong signal to China. 201 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 4: And when you talk to I talked to my Chinese counterparts, 202 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 4: they're concerned. 203 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 5: We are. 204 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 4: Our strategy is containing them, surrounding them, and it's hard 205 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 4: to even though we say we don't do that, when 206 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 4: you're looking at it from Beijing, it sort of looks 207 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 4: like that. But that's a really important relationship and a 208 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 4: very very strong shift in terms of our strategy with 209 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 4: respect to China and all. 210 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 7: Can you give us a sense of how are men 211 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 7: and women in uniform today, how do they feel, how 212 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 7: do they feel about their calling, what they're doing, their missions? 213 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 6: Can you characterize it a little bit? 214 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean these young people and so this from 215 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 4: e goes back obviously a long time, but during the Wars, 216 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 4: I was so taken by this younger generation and who 217 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 4: they were and where they came from and what they 218 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 4: were committed to. That has continued. So there's a lot 219 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 4: of churn at the top. I get that, but my 220 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 4: own experience over many decades. Is for the most part, 221 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 4: the troops ignore that they've got a mission. They care 222 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 4: about the country. They're very patriotic and they want to 223 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 4: do well by the country and represent the United States, 224 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 4: and they do so and their extraordinary. 225 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 6: How is our ability to attract and retain? 226 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 7: You talk to any CEO we put in your seat, 227 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 7: and they will say one of the biggest challenges is 228 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 7: attracting and retaining good personnel. 229 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 6: How is it with the military? 230 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 5: Well, I mean we historically we've gone up and down. 231 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 4: We had two or three years ago we had a 232 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 4: pretty significant downturn. The services have all recognized that, and 233 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 4: from what I understand now, that's been turned around, and 234 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 4: so it continues to be very, very attractive from a 235 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 4: recruiting standpoint, and we recruit. My own view is we 236 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 4: need to recruit from all over the country from every 237 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 4: background because of the military, and I states military needs 238 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 4: to represent America. 239 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 5: And that's really a key two questions. 240 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 3: I don't want to spend a lot of time in this, 241 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 3: but it's certainly germane to Bloomberg news Our editor in 242 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 3: chief John Micklethwaite, and that is the Pentagon has decided 243 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 3: to curtail the reporting of the media on our military affairs. 244 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 3: It just seems across the span of America back to 245 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 3: the Civil War, even farther back, just outrageous. Your thoughts 246 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 3: on a limitation of journalism at the Pentagon. 247 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 4: I think it's, first of all, almost can't do it. 248 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 4: The reporting is going to continue to happen no matter 249 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 4: paper well, I mean it's it's I mean that's I 250 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 4: grew up in that world and feel very strongly about that. 251 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 4: I think we've been through a lot of this discussion, 252 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 4: and I think it's been pretty healthy in the last 253 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 4: two weeks tied to that tragedy, that tragic assassination of 254 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 4: Charlie Kirk. I think one of the core pillars of 255 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 4: the United States of American art democracy is free speech, 256 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 4: and we cannot and should not restrict that in any way. 257 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 3: I have to talk about my seminal book on leadership 258 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 3: with a hat tip to James Tavetus and his Leader's bookshelf, 259 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 3: and that is Everardlrab sat down with the admirals of 260 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 3: World War Two as they're all becoming more agent not 261 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 3: young spring chickens like Michael Mullen. The Navy, which is 262 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 3: the arc of generations from Nimics and. 263 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: Sprague over to where we are now. 264 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 3: Is it a new navy to Michael mullen or is 265 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 3: there an arc of integrity there within all the turmoil 266 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 3: of the Pentagon? 267 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 4: Would there is an arc of integrity? That's who we 268 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 4: are And it's not just the Navy. I think it's 269 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 4: the military that is our core value. It is service, 270 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 4: It is strategically led, and I know a lot of 271 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 4: the leaders and they're incredibly capable. Obviously the world has 272 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 4: changed dramatically, but I think this Navy and its leadership 273 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 4: is very well positioned to focus on the requirements that 274 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 4: we have right now, which are vastly different from way back, 275 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 4: way back then. But it takes that kind of focus 276 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 4: from leaders to bring the Navy and actually the rest 277 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 4: of the military to meet the needs that we have 278 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 4: right now, which is I think we're at an inflection point. 279 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 4: We're probably at the most dangerous time in my life 280 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 4: in terms of what's changing in the world, and our 281 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 4: military is obviously a big part of that. It's not 282 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 4: the only part. We've got other parts of our government, 283 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 4: particularly from an economic standpoint, from a diplomatic standpoint, that 284 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 4: must also focus on our own security, and we do 285 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 4: that together, and the better we do it together, the 286 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 4: better our security is going to be. 287 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 7: Again, going back to America first, that is a change 288 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 7: in doctrine since the end of the Second World War, 289 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 7: where we found ourselves in a leadership position. Whether we 290 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 7: wanted to be there or not, we were there, and 291 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 7: I think that's created NATO and the whole world order 292 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 7: that we've all grown up with. 293 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 6: Is that a risk of changing this is? 294 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 5: Well? 295 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 4: I mean, if you listen to the discussion, it may be. 296 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 4: And I think we need to pay attention to what's 297 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 4: actually happening on the ground. How many forces have actually 298 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 4: come home not that many. How many commitments have been reduced, 299 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 4: not that many. We're still in the Gulf, We're still 300 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 4: in Europe obviously, we're still in the Western Pacific in 301 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 4: that part of the world. So I would look at 302 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 4: execution as opposed to just paying attention to what's being said. 303 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 2: What is ancient heir? 304 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 3: As a final question, ad well, is America has to 305 00:15:58,960 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 3: show the flag? 306 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: How do we do that? 307 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I'm a I'm a joint guy, but 308 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 4: I'm a Navy guy. 309 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 2: Straveta said, you have to understand he is a Navy guy. 310 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 4: One of the one of the things you learn when 311 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 4: you grow up is you're showing the flag and you're 312 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 4: showing it in places that other people one haven't even 313 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 4: heard of and two maybe not they the people, the 314 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 4: locals have not heard of us. And that that flag 315 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 4: represents so much to so many not just to Americans. 316 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 4: I've been around the world a lot for decades, and 317 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 4: that flag means so much to so many people in 318 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 4: terms of freedom, opportunity, uh and and a better future. 319 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 4: And that continues to be the case, and we need 320 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 4: to continue to show it. 321 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 2: Ederyl, thank you so much. Edylan with us here at the. 322 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 3: Bloomberg Global Forum. Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Surveillance 323 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 3: coming up after this. 324 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Catch us live 325 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: weekday afternoons from seven to ten am Eastern Listen on 326 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: Applecarplay and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business app, or 327 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: watch us live on YouTube. 328 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 3: Joined us always in forever with the Bank of America 329 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 3: and of course rivercon Carbon chairwoman. Today here at the 330 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,719 Speaker 3: Bloomberg Global Forum. I'd lead with the Red Sox, but 331 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 3: I guess I won't it's fun to watch them here 332 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 3: in September. I'm going to lead with you and I 333 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 3: shared a stage at Davos a million years ago. Savita 334 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 3: Supermanian was in the audience, Savia Bloss and all it 335 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 3: was cop Whatever is COP thirty coming up in Brazil? 336 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 3: Is it even remotely like what you and I did 337 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 3: in Davos years ago? 338 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 8: Well, I think the issues are the same. I think 339 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 8: that the enthusiasm is, let's say, a bit depleted these days. 340 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 8: But I think it's more confusion than depletion. If right, 341 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 8: to be honest. 342 00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 3: Can the world go alone without America and move forward? 343 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 3: And the debates in the financing of climate change? 344 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 8: No, but I think the financing of climate change is 345 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 8: happening anyway, So it is. First of all, it's a 346 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 8: market opportunity which has been lost along the way. And 347 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 8: climate change is real. We can debate that, but the 348 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 8: scientists don't debate it. And honestly, the largest corporations in 349 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 8: the world aren't debating it. Europe is not debating it. 350 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 8: Their rules are being implemented as we speak two and 351 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 8: twenty six, twenty twenty seven. So there'll be a market, 352 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 8: a cap and trade market that will be real. 353 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 2: I've got to. 354 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 3: Enterrupt Paul, this headline that's just out and live. This 355 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 3: oracle looks to raise fifteen billion dollars on corporate bond sale, 356 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 3: which is life goes on. You know, if transactions happen, 357 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 3: you do this, you do that, and you go to 358 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 3: the bond market with Bank of America and you raise money. 359 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 2: I mean, life goes on, Paul, Just so, I thought 360 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 2: that was important. 361 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 7: I know, we'll talk to some dead people about that. 362 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 7: So what does it mean? And when the President of 363 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 7: the United States gets up in front of the United 364 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 7: Nations General Assembly yesterday and says, effectively climate change is 365 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 7: a hoax? 366 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 6: What does that mean to the whole movement? 367 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 8: I guess globally, Well, I'm sure it's suppressing to the movement, 368 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 8: but I also think that people largely believe climate change 369 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 8: is not a hoax and they see very real things 370 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 8: in front of them. I do think it was a 371 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,959 Speaker 8: mistake in years past to talk about the Arctic or 372 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 8: coral reefs or icebergs melting, because people don't relate to that. 373 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 6: What they do relate to is. 374 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 8: Extreme weather. Insurance prices going up in coastal areas asthma 375 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 8: on the rise. Very prosaic things, maybe, but they're the 376 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 8: very real things. The fact that farmland has been degraded, 377 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 8: forests are degraded, and we have emerging markets that all 378 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 8: want to industrialize and they'd love to do it more quickly, 379 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 8: and they could do it more cheaply with clean energy 380 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 8: than they can do with fossil fuels. This isn't an 381 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 8: anti fossil fuels dietripe. It is just a matter of 382 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 8: clean energy is cheaper, and it's what's on the rise, 383 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 8: and it's what's happening in emerging markets. 384 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 6: But it has to be financed. 385 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 7: Talk to us about the financing house. The environment changed 386 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 7: over the last year, last two or three years. 387 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 8: Well, there were products like Rubicon is a carbon credits company, 388 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 8: and that had great promise in twenty twenty one. By 389 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 8: twenty twenty three it was in a depression. But twenty 390 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 8: twenty four to twenty twenty five has been better. It 391 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 8: promises to be many times this size by twenty thirty, 392 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 8: which is companies figure out what their carbon footprints and 393 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 8: they buy carbon credits to sort of cover the delta 394 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 8: between what is today and what they need to do 395 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 8: in the future, and that money to everything from biodiversity, 396 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 8: you know, reforesting places in the world or farmland, or 397 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 8: it can go into industrial kinds of direct air capture, 398 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 8: or it can be concessionary capital for emerging markets so 399 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 8: that they can get going. 400 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 2: And what you. 401 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 3: Invented at Bank of America with Sevina Supermania of Berkeley, 402 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 3: it was extraordinary. You brought I mean this seriously, folks, 403 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 3: an infinite can brought math and Excel spreadsheets to climate machine. 404 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 3: Everybody else was you know, peace, love, dope, you know, 405 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 3: candles lit. You know we're going to save the world. 406 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 3: We are the world. And you said, wait a minute, 407 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 3: we got to quantify it. What do those Excel spreadsheets 408 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 3: look like right now? 409 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 8: Well, what they look like right now is I have 410 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 8: to tell you huge companies like Microsoft are deeply involved 411 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 8: in this. They just they did a deal with Rubicon 412 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 8: just a few months ago for eighteen million tons of 413 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 8: carbon credits. So companies are evaluating their footprint, they're putting 414 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 8: money into it. This is trillions of dollars eventually in 415 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 8: terms of the change in energy use, I think a 416 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 8: lot of it will happen as emerging markets become industrialized. 417 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 8: I think some of it will happen in the United States. 418 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 8: It is demanded in Europe, and another generation will also 419 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 8: demand it. 420 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 3: So I'm gonna get to say, what's a pixie does 421 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 3: in Texas? Why is Texas different than Massachusetts or any 422 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 3: other state out there. 423 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 8: Well, it's wind and solar is actually superior to anywhere else. 424 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 8: As you know, they may be the land of fossil fuels, 425 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 8: but they're also the land of solar and wind. 426 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 3: Okay, we have to go and thank you so much 427 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 3: for being with dis greatly appreciate infinchcating with us, and 428 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 3: she is of course with a Rubicon and always forever 429 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 3: with Bank of America. 430 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 2: Stay with us. 431 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 3: More from Bloomberg Surveillance coming up after this. 432 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday 433 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: starting at seven am Eastern on Apple Coarclay, and Android 434 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen 435 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 436 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 437 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 2: This guest is the oddest guest in New York. 438 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 3: She has made the circuit of philanthropy not only on 439 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 3: the island of Manhattan, but to the five Burroughs. I 440 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 3: want to start with the best playgrounds in the world, 441 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 3: which are Central Park playgrounds. You were instrumental and saying, hey, 442 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 3: we need a playground at Fifth Avenue and whatever. 443 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 2: They're packed all the time, aren't they you? 444 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 9: Thank you? 445 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 2: They are they are. 446 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 3: What was the fight like to get playgrounds on the 447 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 3: hello turf of Central Park? 448 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 6: You know, thankfully. 449 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 9: I think all of the leadership of the city and 450 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 9: the Central Park Conservancy is always believed in having parks 451 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 9: and our kids need them. 452 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 3: David Kelly, I assume a JP Morgan's worried about the 453 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 3: ten year yield. 454 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 2: You're not. 455 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 3: You're worried about fistfights among families. You have arguably the 456 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 3: most delicate job at JP Morgan. We're just explained to 457 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 3: the parents that the young brats aren't on page. 458 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 2: What are we going to do to make wealth more intelligent? 459 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 3: Describe the biggest challenge right now in dealing with generational 460 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 3: dynamics among JP. 461 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 9: Morgan Wealth Well, I'd like to say the clients I 462 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 9: work with, Yes, they are the ultra high networth and 463 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 9: high net worth clients that we are supporting in JP 464 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 9: Morgan Wealth Management and helping them navigate with intention those 465 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 9: opportunities and the challenges as you mentioned with wealth, and 466 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,239 Speaker 9: what I always say is it's the financial advisors who 467 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 9: prepare the assets, and we are preparing the family for 468 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 9: the assets. There's a playbook and research and frameworks about 469 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 9: this that can help families navigate this well and proven 470 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 9: methods at help families succeed and carry that well through 471 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 9: three generations. And that really is at the core of 472 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 9: the playbook. So for us, it's really meeting those needs 473 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 9: that the families have and providing also the lifestyle needs 474 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 9: that they have. So there's an adjacent team too that 475 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 9: can do everything from home staffing and. 476 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 6: Bill play and all of that. 477 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 9: So it's really the products and services that our clients 478 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 9: need to meet you know, their well. 479 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 3: I have so many time questions, why don't you save 480 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 3: an interview and take. 481 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 7: Over How does philanthropy work into your work with some 482 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 7: of these high networth folks, because I know a lot 483 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 7: of folks do have you know, they do have plans 484 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 7: and how does that work? 485 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 9: So that's exactly right. So philanthropy is a key piece. 486 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 9: When I just mentioned that roadmap that we work on 487 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 9: with families, philanthropy is a key piece of that and 488 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 9: so there's a number of us on the team that 489 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 9: serve as philanthropic advisors to our clients. That can be 490 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 9: everything from working with a patriarch and a matriarch who 491 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 9: have set up a family foundation. They're very proud of it, 492 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 9: but then their three children perhaps have moved to other 493 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 9: cities and have different interests. Maybe they're more in true 494 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 9: climate change, and the parents were supporting the hospitals in 495 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 9: the city in which they were born. So there's really 496 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 9: something there about helping the family to navigate and move 497 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 9: from that stage of expectations to actual agreements in the family. 498 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 9: They're also come over to my house and definitely happy too. 499 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 9: We would be delighted to have as a client. And 500 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 9: I also think that a very common case study that 501 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 9: we work with working alongside our bankers, will be working 502 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 9: with entrepreneurs. Perhaps they've had a sale of a business 503 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 9: and then they're thinking about their vibrant next chapter. A 504 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 9: big part of that can be philanthropy, and as we 505 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 9: have been talking today with the generational wealth transfer that's 506 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 9: going on, helping to prepare that next gen to accept 507 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 9: this wealth, you know, with a plan with the skills 508 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 9: they need, really does take a coach, and as you've intimated, oftentimes, 509 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 9: what we hear from our client hands is that having 510 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 9: someone like us that's brought in the kids might tend 511 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 9: to listen to us a little bit more than their parents. 512 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 9: I'm sure I think we all know that as parents 513 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 9: ourselves talk to. 514 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 7: Us about that wealth transfer, it's something that might One 515 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 7: of my offspring is in the financial services business, and 516 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 7: I'm telling them you're in a great position because there 517 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 7: is this wealth a transfer that's taking place. How do 518 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 7: you guys think about it and size it up for 519 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 7: your clients? 520 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 9: It is It is a growth business, right so thoroughly 521 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 9: Associates said one hundred and five trillion will pass between 522 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 9: generations exactly, enormous numbers by twenty forty five. What I 523 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 9: think is interesting about it and what we're focused on 524 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 9: at JP Morgan Wealth Management there first is this horizontal transfer. 525 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 9: You know, women have live men on a global average 526 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 9: by five years, and so the women will get the 527 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 9: wealth first. I just wrote a paper on this that's 528 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 9: on our JP Morgan Family Wealth Institute. You know, women 529 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 9: are taking over sixty one percent our leaders of foundations. Now, 530 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 9: they tend to be a little bit more collaborative in 531 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 9: their giving, they participate in giving circles. They want to 532 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 9: pay forward their learnings in slightly different ways than we 533 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 9: saw a thirty years ago when I was starting out 534 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 9: my career. So I think it's that first level, and 535 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 9: then it's the generational level. So when we're thinking of 536 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 9: that next gen and you think of your kids, for example, 537 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 9: to help with the children, we run boot camps for 538 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 9: our kids that are helping them to be strategic, impactful 539 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 9: philanthropists and sort of understand the supports and the best 540 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 9: practices there. And then it sounds a little bit more ephemeral, 541 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 9: but I can't emphasize enough its importance is having a 542 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 9: family value statement. And so we'll work with the patriarchs 543 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 9: matrix and then the family that really gives a family 544 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 9: a running start, whether it's running a family business, a 545 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 9: family office, you know, or a family foundation. 546 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 2: You're going to get this in real quick. It's too important. 547 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 3: The sterio, the stereotype today is the older generation loaded 548 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 3: up at well all very philanthropic in medicine and education, 549 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 3: and the tech brats aren't giving. 550 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 2: Is that a stereotype or is it true? 551 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 9: That's a stereotype. That's a stereotype. So the rising generation, 552 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 9: I mean they are looking for purpose across everything, as 553 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 9: we all know. They want purpose in their careers, they 554 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 9: want purpose in their giving. 555 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 3: So donating fifty million to while Cornell is not purpose. 556 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 9: You're gonna that is? That is so you're going to 557 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 9: see what I'm saying is I don't think that will change. 558 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 3: It is and we have breaking news. You've got to 559 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 3: go to it. But thank you, so can you please 560 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 3: come back. 561 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 9: I would be delighted to come back. 562 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 3: Thank you very hash is at lexing to them black 563 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 3: with JP Morgan here on one of the huge, huge 564 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 3: issues for families. 565 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 2: Stay with us. 566 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:53,719 Speaker 3: More from Bloomberg Surveillance coming up after this. 567 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday 568 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: starting at seven am Eastern on Apple Clock and Android 569 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch 570 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the 571 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal. 572 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 3: Joining us is Henry Fernandez's philanthropy to New York City 573 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 3: is noted with a Council on Foreign Relations and of 574 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 3: course with MSCI importantly a former Deputy governor of his 575 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 3: Dominican Republic as well. 576 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 2: I have to start with the New. 577 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,959 Speaker 3: York vignette, and it's what the spirit of New York is. 578 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 3: You've provided major commitment to Memorial slum kettering. And just 579 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 3: as an example, you had a phone call from someone 580 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 3: abroad and they said, I'm sick, I need to come 581 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 3: to New York. 582 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 2: That happens every day at Memorial Sloan. 583 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 5: Doesn't it totally? 584 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 10: And you know that well because of the great surveys 585 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 10: your wife gave Memorials. 586 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 2: So it's about It's about. 587 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 3: Boston's the same way they get any all this negativity. 588 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 2: Guess what, when they get sick, they go to JFK 589 00:30:58,920 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 2: or Logan, don't they? 590 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 5: And the Anderson in Houston. 591 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 10: But you know it's long Catoring is by far the 592 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 10: most attractive one because it's New York City, and we 593 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 10: see that people calling and wanting to come because this 594 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 10: is the best cancer research center and treatment in the world. 595 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 10: So therefore, talk about American exceptionalism, there's an example of 596 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 10: that right there. 597 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 3: If you were speaking with President Trump right now about 598 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 3: the virtues of our diverse cities, what would you say 599 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 3: to him? 600 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 10: First of all, I'm very proud to be twenty percent 601 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 10: of the Latino population in America that we're contributing four 602 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 10: trillion dollars of GDP and twenty three percent of the 603 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 10: economic growth of the country. And there are a lot 604 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 10: of other people like that that want to contribute in America. 605 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 10: So that's number one. I know immigration is an issue, 606 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 10: but a lot of us have come to this country 607 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 10: to give our blood, sweat and tear for the economic 608 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 10: development and the. 609 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 6: Progress and the success of this country. So that would 610 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 6: be my first message to it MSCI. 611 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 7: When we talk about ms CI, we think about emerging 612 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 7: markets and the growth of emerging markets and how to 613 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 7: measure the growth of emerging market assets. Talk to us 614 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 7: about China. I mean, it's such a big part of 615 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 7: the MSCI in next thirty thirty percent. What's your view 616 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 7: of China? How you know, it seems like there's a 617 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 7: cold war economic cold war between China and the West. 618 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 7: How do you think about that as a global investor? 619 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 10: Well, China, first of all, the second largest economy in 620 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 10: the world in PPT terms, purchasing you know, parity terms, 621 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 10: it's probably even larger, and it's got a very diverse 622 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 10: secuity market. You know, it's got to lead is a 623 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 10: leader in many areas of the various industries around the world, 624 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 10: including climate change industries. So therefore, how could you not 625 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 10: invest in the country. It's investable, you can be there. 626 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 10: There are, of course geopolitical issues. There are of course 627 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 10: potential military issues that could create sanctions and other things, 628 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 10: and you've got to be mindful of that and careful 629 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 10: with that risk. Other than that, you know, it's an 630 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 10: open country. You can invest from anywhere in the world, 631 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 10: and the more capital that is tied together between two societies, hopefully, 632 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 10: the lower probability of a conflict. 633 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 7: Right as a global investor, thinking about emerging markets, we've 634 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 7: got a US president, US administration, the US view that 635 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 7: de globalization, maybe making America greater, maybe pulling back from 636 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 7: some of our economic commitments, some of our geopolitical commitments. 637 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 6: How's that being viewed by the emerging markets? 638 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 10: Well, first of all, I don't think we are in 639 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 10: a deglobalizing world, okay at all. 640 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 6: Okay, I think we are in a reglobalizing world. Trade 641 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 6: last year. 642 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 10: Increased three hundred billion dollars global trade. We do not 643 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 10: see trade, you know, going down, you know, maybe it 644 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 10: slows down a little bit. The trade between the big superpowers. 645 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 10: You know, China, US obviously is slowing down. The trade 646 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 10: among Southeast Asian countries is increasing dramatically, the trade within 647 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 10: Europe is increasing dramatically, and the like. 648 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 5: So you have a. 649 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 10: Reglobalizing right, and therefore it's going to present new opportunities 650 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 10: for investment. Companies that are more in the cross hair 651 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 10: of this are going to not do as well, but 652 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 10: there are a lot of other companies and economists that 653 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 10: are going to do well in this reglobalizing environment. 654 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 3: You tell young to remember the nifty to fifty, I 655 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 3: unfortunately remember it with the concentration. How does mscies work? 656 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 3: It's math change because of the concentration in mag seven. 657 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 10: Well, I happen to look very young, but I do 658 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 10: remember that period of cigars. I do remember that period 659 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 10: of time. There are there have been at least three 660 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 10: periods of time in which the US equity market has 661 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 10: been about seventy percent of the global you know equity markets. 662 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 5: That period was one of them. 663 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 10: The other one, right was right around the Internet bubble, 664 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 10: and this period again, so there have been periods in 665 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 10: history like this in the last forty fifty years. So 666 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 10: we'll say, you know, is in our case right now 667 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 10: is the big tech firms with AI and all of that. 668 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 10: But they have good earners, they have good cash flows. 669 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 10: They have that it's not like air, you know, in air, 670 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 10: so but they will reverse itself at some point when 671 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 10: you see other opportunities in other places. 672 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 3: Now, thank you so much for joining Bloomberg today, Henry 673 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,760 Speaker 3: Fernandez Folks philanthropis of New York City and of course 674 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 3: with MSCI as their chairman in chief executive officer. 675 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, 676 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. 677 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 6: Listen live each. 678 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: Weekday, seven to ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 679 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. 680 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube 681 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: and always on the Bloomberg terminal