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Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM

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Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,

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Speaker 1: and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with

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Speaker 1: Captain Wrong.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and

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Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only,

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Speaker 2: and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to

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Speaker 2: Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors and associates.

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Speaker 2: We would like to encourage you to do your own

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Speaker 2: research and discover the subject matter for yourself.

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Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain ron and Each week on Beyond

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Speaker 3: Contact are the latest news in ufology, discuss some of

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Speaker 3: the classic cases and bring you the latest information from

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Speaker 3: the newest cases as we talked with the top experts.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Rona. Today we're joined

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Speaker 4: by Michael Phillip. Michael's a writer, speaker, creator and host

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Speaker 4: of Third Eye Drops podcast. The podcast blends consciousness exploration,

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Speaker 4: psychedelic philosophy, spirituality, technology, and esoteric ideas such as non

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Speaker 4: human intelligences, altered states, simulation theory ets and interdimensional phenomena.

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Speaker 4: He also explores the deep thinkers of history and their philosophies,

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Speaker 4: and he is a very curious person about the true

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Speaker 4: nature of reality. He's right up my ALLEI. Hey, Michael,

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Speaker 4: welcome to the show.

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Speaker 5: How you doing doing well?

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Speaker 1: Man?

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Speaker 5: Doing well? I always like when I hear an introduction

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Speaker 5: that isn't something that I wrote, you know, four or

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Speaker 5: five years ago, and I cringe at and so, yeah,

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Speaker 5: that was a nice novel way to start things out,

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Speaker 5: and I agree with that assessment.

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Speaker 4: It is man. So I've watched a lot of your

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Speaker 4: stuff and I really recommend it to everyone listening. And

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Speaker 4: much of what you talk about seems to be rooted

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Speaker 4: more in philosophies and ancient traditions. You're very well versed

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Speaker 4: in all of these areas, and I'm curious to hear

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Speaker 4: where do you sit today regarding the UFO phenomena?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Man, well, kind of like we were just alluding

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Speaker 5: to or talking about specifically actually before we were recording.

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Speaker 5: You know, when these experiences do happen with what you

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Speaker 5: perceive to be the other, right, there are so many

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Speaker 5: biases we have in terms of like I think the

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Speaker 5: first bias is we just want to understand, right, Like,

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Speaker 5: let's say you have some kind of anomalist experience with

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Speaker 5: something you can explain that feels intelligent beyond you. The

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Speaker 5: human mind wants to know. It wants to know what

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Speaker 5: bucket do I put this in? And alien is a

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Speaker 5: very clean bucket. You know, we can sort of understand

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Speaker 5: that it sort of makes sense with our modern POV.

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Speaker 5: But in my experience, if we're more intellectually honest, I

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Speaker 5: think it could be something that if it's in any

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Speaker 5: number of buckets and maybe none or maybe all of

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Speaker 5: them somehow in some kind of like a you know,

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Speaker 5: Jacques Valais kind of way, where it's like this intelligence

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Speaker 5: or system that can take on many different forms, including

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Speaker 5: what appears to be alien, including what appears to be

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Speaker 5: a Marian apparition or a faery or whatever. So I

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Speaker 5: think generally that's the kind of hypothesis I gravitate toward,

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Speaker 5: is that whatever this is, it's probably far beyond us.

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Speaker 5: It's probably rooted in consciousness, and it probably has the

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Speaker 5: ability to present itself in any number of ways. Also

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Speaker 5: very similar to like a John Keel, you know, ultra

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Speaker 5: terrestrial hypothesis sort of line of thinking I would say,

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Speaker 5: you know.

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Speaker 4: In today's world, we're just flooded with misinformation, disinformation, misidentification

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Speaker 4: even and even intentional disinformation. Of course, so you also

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Speaker 4: point out how we can look to many of these old,

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Speaker 4: ancient traditions that can give us some insights to interacting

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Speaker 4: with the phenomenon.

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Speaker 5: Right, yeah, because I think you know, whatever this is.

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Speaker 5: Of course, there's like modern UFO or like it starts

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Speaker 5: in the nineteen forties, you know, famous crashes like Roswell

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Speaker 5: et cetera. And there are some I feel like potential

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Speaker 5: coherent reasons for why it would have only just started then.

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Speaker 5: But I really gravitate toward the idea that whatever it

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Speaker 5: is has been going on for far, far longer than that,

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Speaker 5: And what's really shifted is our cultural and linguistic and

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Speaker 5: conceptual tool set for describing whatever this is. When you

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Speaker 5: go back to ancient Greece, for instance, their culture is

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Speaker 5: replete with non human intelligence. Right, You've got angels, you've

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Speaker 5: got daimonas which eventually become demons. You've got gods depending

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Speaker 5: on who you're reading, you've got hyper cosmic gods, and

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Speaker 5: maybe more interestingly and more harmonic with the UFO phenomena.

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Speaker 5: There are appearances that are talked about, appearances of lights appearing,

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Speaker 5: says of intelligence is you know, there are biblical stories

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Speaker 5: of people being taken up by angelic figures to the

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Speaker 5: throne of God. And I understand that these are like

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Speaker 5: controversial things to conflate, but I also feel like it's

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Speaker 5: too tempting not.

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Speaker 4: To right on the note almost it's so parallel. And

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Speaker 4: why would we not call that a god. If we

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Speaker 4: went to a tribe that was disconnected and we showed

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Speaker 4: them an iPhone and you could talk to anyone in

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Speaker 4: the world, we would be gods. You know that kind

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Speaker 4: of a thing. Technology is god.

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Speaker 5: Like, yes, And you know, with some of these more

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Speaker 5: current revelations from whistleblowers, there seems to be almost a

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Speaker 5: strange return to this. Have you noticed that, Like, there

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Speaker 5: seems to be a strange return to Yes, there's technology involved,

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Speaker 5: but you're not going to get to the root of

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Speaker 5: whatever this is unless you're asking the question through the

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Speaker 5: prism of consciousness, Like, through the prism of this is

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Speaker 5: not just reducible to nuts and bolts and some super

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Speaker 5: advanced civilization. There's something fundamentally consciousness based about all of this.

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Speaker 5: And when you start to marry those two things, like

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Speaker 5: hyper advanced technology with higher intelligence, you know, maybe maybe

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Speaker 5: something like a god or spiritual being isn't the worst

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Speaker 5: descriptor maybe it's closer to the truth. We're equally close

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Speaker 5: to the truth to alien. I'm not personally married to

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Speaker 5: any nomenclature at all.

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Speaker 4: Right, but it's well phrased. The way you put that together.

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Speaker 4: It even reminded me of how you're using the word technology.

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Speaker 4: You know, Gallimore says DMT is not a drug, it's

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Speaker 4: a technology, you know, And it almost feels like these

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Speaker 4: ancient traditions, in this ancient way of thinking and the

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Speaker 4: ability to we probably had a better control of our

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Speaker 4: consciousness and maybe some of these siabilities two thousand years

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Speaker 4: ago more than we are five thousand years ago, more

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Speaker 4: than we have today, which is incredible. You know. I

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Speaker 4: like the idea that this material that you're talking about,

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Speaker 4: these ancient traditions, was there before cover ups and social

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Speaker 4: media and the lore building upon itself. You know, that's

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Speaker 4: a kind of a problem we have today because of

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Speaker 4: the proliferation of these stories. Now, that's why the early

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Speaker 4: accounts of UFOs or encounters with beings, because today, you know,

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Speaker 4: kids grow up seeing that on TV, which we didn't,

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Speaker 4: you know, fifty years ago. All of this disinformation encounter

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Speaker 4: intelligence that permeates our world. It affects the way these

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Speaker 4: things are since we're dealing with what, for the moment

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Speaker 4: is really a complete unknown. It's so hard to pin

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Speaker 4: down any of it for certain, But you can't examine

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Speaker 4: the phenomenon from so many different disciplines and see patterns

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Speaker 4: and themes and even specific accounts that seem to repeat

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Speaker 4: throughout history. Have you found that to be the case.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, to some degree. But I think it gets tricky

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Speaker 5: because I think, on one hand, experiencer accounts and whistleblowers

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Speaker 5: and people at firsthand knowledge is such a double edged

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Speaker 5: short sword because simultaneously I think they are the most compelling,

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Speaker 5: but also, just due to human psychology, they can also

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Speaker 5: be the most dubious. Right, So it's it's hard to

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Speaker 5: ever separate wheat from the chaff in terms of like,

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Speaker 5: this person's real, this person's a liar, this person's a

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Speaker 5: disinformation agent, this person's legit. So I feel like that's

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Speaker 5: one of those things, those those pieces of dissonance when

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Speaker 5: you're trying to follow the breadcrumbs that you're always going

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Speaker 5: to run into, right because my favorite whistleblower might be

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Speaker 5: somebody who I say and you're like, oh, that guy's

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Speaker 5: a spook immediately, and then you run into this and

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Speaker 5: you can't know, right, like despite your best efforts, and

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Speaker 5: you know, Wow, that guy really seems legit to me,

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Speaker 5: That guy really seems like he has our best interest

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Speaker 5: in mind. At the end of the day, we just

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Speaker 5: don't know what that person's psychology is. So in some ways, yeah,

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Speaker 5: I do think that there does seem to be this

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Speaker 5: grammar to these experiences. It's weird because I put stock

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Speaker 5: in that. But then I also my intellect jumps in

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Speaker 5: and is like, or is there a grammar there? Because

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Speaker 5: there's like this weird emulation occurring. There's like this weird

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Speaker 5: mimetic fan fiction like occurring, you know. But I do

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Speaker 5: think they're probably if you made me just state yes

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Speaker 5: or no, do I think there's a there there? I

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Speaker 5: do think there is. I do think there's some overlap

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Speaker 5: to these experiences. That's that's real, right, And I do

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Speaker 5: think it runs from the ancient world to the modern.

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Speaker 5: But you've got to be it's so tricky because it's

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Speaker 5: just you either want to project the ancient onto the

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Speaker 5: modern or the modern onto the ancient. Right, you'd be like, no,

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Speaker 5: it's these beings that were interact It's the Onunaki that

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Speaker 5: the Mesopotamians were talking about, you know, six thousand years ago.

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Speaker 5: Or no, it's the Arctorians. That's who the Mesopotamians were

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Speaker 5: interacting with. And at the end of the day, I

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Speaker 5: just don't know. So, like I said, I'm not married

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Speaker 5: to any nomenclature. But if you examine the information carefully,

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Speaker 5: I do think that there's a grammar there, and I

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Speaker 5: think people like Jacquees prolet again do like just such

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Speaker 5: an amazing job of highlighting what these commonalities are outside

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Speaker 5: of the cultural associations, outside of the popular mythologies and

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Speaker 5: lower of the day.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind that there is

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Speaker 4: something going on. There is something beyond our three D reality,

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Speaker 4: new Tonian physics, all of that. I really do believe

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Speaker 4: there's something beyond materialism. But that's almost like where it

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Speaker 4: ends for me, because I really just have absolutely no idea,

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Speaker 4: even if I've had an experience, it's so beyond us.

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Speaker 4: I feel like it's very difficult in our human terms,

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Speaker 4: at this level of technological development. To really have a

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Speaker 4: grasp of what's happening, we need to take a break here. Brother.

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Speaker 4: When we come back, we're going to continue this conversation

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Speaker 4: with Michael and delve into the actual alien beings, keeping

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Speaker 4: in mind that they may not be from another planet.

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Speaker 4: You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast

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Speaker 4: to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back at

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Speaker 4: and Beyond Contact. We're speaking with Michael Phillip from Third

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Speaker 4: Eye Drops. Michael. Not that long ago, it felt like

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Speaker 4: there was this idea that these ets were beings that

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Speaker 4: lived on another planet and traveled here in nuts and

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Speaker 4: boltz craft, like we talked about then. Over the years,

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Speaker 4: we've had these different ideas and stories of beings coming

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Speaker 4: from other places, like other dimensions, other timelines, different vibrational states,

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Speaker 4: hidden corners of Earth itself, coexisting here, spiritual beings, all

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Speaker 4: these different ideas, there is one more that I'd like

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Speaker 4: to touch on that sometimes gets overlooked, and that's the

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Speaker 4: idea that seems to also go back millennia, and that's

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Speaker 4: the notion of these metaphysical entities which are somehow based

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Speaker 4: in the evolution of our consciousness and perhaps even get

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Speaker 4: manifested to our reality that we may be able to

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Speaker 4: access through psychedelics like ayahuasca and DMT. What are your

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Speaker 4: thoughts about the accounts of these beings.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's very compelling. And again this is sort of

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Speaker 5: where I gravitate on the Nhi question in gen is

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Speaker 5: that if you look to these stories, if you look

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Speaker 5: to shamanistic stories, ancient Greek stories, ancient Hindu stories, it's

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Speaker 5: all very similar. To just put it bluntly, it's all

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Speaker 5: very similar.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: There's a world we live in, a three D world

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Speaker 5: of physical reality of things that if I'm looking at

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Speaker 5: it and no one moves it, it's going to stay

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Speaker 5: right there. If I park my car across the street,

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Speaker 5: it's going to be there when I get back. But

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Speaker 5: then there's this subtler realm that goes by many names, right,

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Speaker 5: and within this subtler realm, there are things that exist.

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Speaker 5: There are life forms, there are intelligences, there are other consciousnesses. Now,

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Speaker 5: if you're a South American shaman, you're going to call

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Speaker 5: those consciousnesses a whole panoply of certain things. If you're

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Speaker 5: an ancient Greek neoplatonic sage you're going to call them

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Speaker 5: something else, but the basic structure is the same that

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Speaker 5: there is this world that we live in, but behind

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Speaker 5: this world there is this subtler world. So again I

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Speaker 5: get a lot out of people like Keel and Valet

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Speaker 5: because it feels like they're trying to update what the

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Speaker 5: ancients we're talking about all along, not only and I

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Speaker 5: like that they update. Like Keel, for instance, you know

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Speaker 5: he talks about there being this sort of extended electromagnetic

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Speaker 5: spectrum perhaps like yes, we're we're aware of, you know,

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Speaker 5: this observable realm of phenomena that we can grock with

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Speaker 5: our senses, and now we have instrumentation that allows us

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Speaker 5: to use radio waves see radiation xyz. But there are

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Speaker 5: probably subtler realms, even beyond what we can currently measure

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Speaker 5: with our technology. And in those subtler realms there seem

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Speaker 5: to be intelligences, intelligences that can materialize, that can take

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Speaker 5: on a variety of forms, And to me, that harmonizes

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Speaker 5: so well with all the ancient stuff that it's hard

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Speaker 5: not to give those kind of hypotheses more credence than

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Speaker 5: what you were describing. You know, aliens that get in

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Speaker 5: a ship and then they like doot to do to do

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Speaker 5: for a really long time from another from another star

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Speaker 5: system until they get here. And admittedly they might be

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Speaker 5: extra terrest. There really might be beings that live on

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Speaker 5: other planets. I'm not trying to straw man that or

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Speaker 5: eliminate that.

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Speaker 4: These things couldn't coexist. They both could be true.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, And that's another thing I'm sensitive to, is

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Speaker 5: like drawing two need of a circle around any of

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Speaker 5: it and trying to boil it all down to one thing.

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Speaker 5: It's probably just another you know, artifact of human bias

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Speaker 5: or trying to.

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Speaker 4: Get I think it's human nature that we want to

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Speaker 4: put in a box. Where does this go? All goes

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Speaker 4: over here? It's this wherever that is. But I think

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Speaker 4: the more I delve into this nonsense, I feel like

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Speaker 4: there's way more different realities happening simultaneous to the one

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Speaker 4: we're currently in. You know, the beings that people encounter

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Speaker 4: in the DMT world are often reported as reptilian, insectoid,

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Speaker 4: even mantislike, and the accounts state that these beings say

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Speaker 4: to them, this is not what we look like. We're

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Speaker 4: appearing this way. So you can grasp our presence, and

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Speaker 4: I think, what an odd thing that they would be

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Speaker 4: choosing to appear in a life form, and it happens

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Speaker 4: to be just like what people report when they claim

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Speaker 4: to have an et experience as similar bans. What do

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Speaker 4: you think about that.

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Speaker 5: The morphology or form that they choose to take is

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Speaker 5: definitely a mysterious point now a human.

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Speaker 4: Or an animal that we would grasp immediately.

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Speaker 5: Yeah right, I'm just spitball. Well, first, let me say

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Speaker 5: I've talked to you mentioned Andrew Gallimore, you know, neuropharmacologists,

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Speaker 5: this guy who's become one of the biggest proselytizers of

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Speaker 5: d MT specifically, you know, wrote a number of books

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Speaker 5: like his new book Death by Astonishment, and you know,

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Speaker 5: alien information theory, reality switch technologies. He's a proponent of

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Speaker 5: this idea that you're talking about that whatever weighs this intelligence,

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Speaker 5: that this hyper intelligence, this higher dimensional whatever you want

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Speaker 5: to call it hyper intelligence, however it's portraying itself to

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Speaker 5: the human mind's eye, is not what it really is,

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Speaker 5: but it is taking on these forms, like you said,

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Speaker 5: mantus forum, reptilian form, whatever. And my gut, my intuition

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Speaker 5: is that it probably has something to do with not

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Speaker 5: just the intelligence but the mind of the person. Maybe

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Speaker 5: it's not even specifically like a top down decision on

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Speaker 5: the point of whatever it is. It's something about the

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Speaker 5: nature of that thing coupled with the individual's mind who's

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Speaker 5: perceiving it. Because I would guess ron like, if you

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Speaker 5: had an experience of a manted being and I also

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Speaker 5: had the experience of a manted being, there'd probably still

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Speaker 5: be weird differences in how I perceive it.

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Speaker 4: And you'll pictured a chair right now, that'd be very different.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, And I talked to do you know, Jeffrey Kreipel,

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Speaker 5: of course, yeah, brilliant guy, righty. We sort of got

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Speaker 5: hung up on this point in our conversation in a

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Speaker 5: way that was really just brain melting to me, which

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Speaker 5: is this point of things are occurring in an altered state,

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Speaker 5: you know, like I'm having this, for lack of a

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Speaker 5: better term, mind's eye experience, let's say, in an altered state.

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Speaker 5: But I am not consciously choosing, as we're talking about,

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Speaker 5: like what I'm seeing at all, but yet it is

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Speaker 5: appearing exclusively to me in my experience, and there does

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Speaker 5: seem to be this weird chooser of an image somewhere,

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Speaker 5: and I don't know if that chooser of the image

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Speaker 5: is in my mind, if it's external to my mind,

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Speaker 5: if it's a collision of my mind and the other thing,

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Speaker 5: and it's just making the most obvious outcome in the

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Speaker 5: form of a lizard being. I don't know, but it's

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Speaker 5: an interesting question.

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Speaker 4: It is. And Michael, I'll tell you the first time

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Speaker 4: I heard it, you know what I thought. I thought.

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Speaker 4: You know, obviously all of this is wild speculation, but

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Speaker 4: maybe these beings are so advanced and so outside of

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Speaker 4: our concept of reality that to them, since they're let's

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Speaker 4: say they are energy beings or light beings or something

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Speaker 4: beyond you know, maybe they feel like they're manifesting in

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Speaker 4: a solid body that's part of our universe, because those

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Speaker 4: beings do exist on other planets in our universe, and

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Speaker 4: to them, well, we would know what that is because

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Speaker 4: we're part of this universe. You know, they're so beyond

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Speaker 4: us that they see it. They're not going to come

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Speaker 4: was humans or animals. They come as this other being

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Speaker 4: because they think that's all part of our universe. I

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Speaker 4: know that's out there, but it's just an idea, you know.

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Speaker 4: I want to ask you this didn't Carl Jung say

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Speaker 4: that all of these different archetypes are kind of baked

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Speaker 4: into our conscious mind. But these beings certainly don't seem

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Speaker 4: to be or am I missing that they are?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, the question of archetypes is a very

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Speaker 5: compelling and interesting one, and I think it's it kind

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Speaker 5: of depends on what your a priori your you know,

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Speaker 5: your prior assumptions are about what an archetype is. Like

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Speaker 5: a lot of people, I think, incorrectly think that Yung

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Speaker 5: was saying this is all in your head, This is

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Speaker 5: all just an artifact of human psychology. These archetypes, these

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Speaker 5: archetypes don't really exist in and of themselves. But when

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Speaker 5: you read his more kind of esoteric stuff, like that

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Speaker 5: big read book that's behind me, that's like Jung's big

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Speaker 5: visionary book that he kept secret his whole life. He

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Speaker 5: was clearly very well read in all of this ancient

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Speaker 5: esoteric stuff, chemical stuff, ancient gnostic stuff, ancient platonic stuff.

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Speaker 5: So he was keenly aware that archetypes were not just

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Speaker 5: confined to the human mind, but to what he called

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Speaker 5: the collective unconscious, like the collective mind of all of

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Speaker 5: humanity and maybe even beyond humanity, right, and I think

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Speaker 5: maybe you know when these intelligences enter from Like let's

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Speaker 5: just say that there is this collective unconscious of all

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Speaker 5: of humanity, if they have their own consciousness, that can

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Speaker 5: even you know, navigate through our collective unconscious. Let's just visualize,

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Speaker 5: like there's two spaces. There's like a giant bubble that's

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Speaker 5: the human collective unconscious, and then there's an external thing

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Speaker 5: coming into the human collective unconscious. Maybe it has to

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Speaker 5: choose an image from our own a collective unconscious and subconscious.

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Speaker 5: Maybe it has to take some of what it really

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Speaker 5: is and combine it with what we know. I mean,

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Speaker 5: it's just so hard to know, but yeah, I mean

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Speaker 5: these are really archetypal, right, like reptilians, serpents, manted. Have

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Speaker 5: you ever seen those ancient like the ancient Mesopotamian I

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Speaker 5: think it is an onnaki thing of like the side

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Speaker 5: the side view of that reptilian looking beings that's holding

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Speaker 5: one of those weird bags, yeah, right, with his hand

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Speaker 5: out stretched.

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Speaker 4: Which is all over the world that they hold these bags. Yeah, bizarre.

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Speaker 5: So clearly these are things that have been in the

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Speaker 5: consciousness of humanity. Like as far back as our relics

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Speaker 5: goes years at least, John, So, I mean then that

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Speaker 5: respawns all kinds of new questions, right, Like, so were

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Speaker 5: these things that they were really encountering or these really

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Speaker 5: physical beings that came down on a ship? I don't know, man,

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Speaker 5: I mean all these all these questions end in and

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Speaker 5: I don't know, but they're supremely interesting and fun to

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Speaker 5: talk about.

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Speaker 4: Like kicking around exactly. You just you just summed it up. Right.

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Speaker 4: When we come back, we're going to continue this conversation

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Speaker 4: with Michael and ask him his thoughts on reality not

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Speaker 4: being something we perceive, but perhaps something we participate in

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Speaker 4: shaped by consciousness itself. You're listening to Beyond Contact on

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Speaker 4: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.

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Speaker 4: We're back on Beyond Contact and we're getting some serious

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Speaker 4: third eye drops today from Michael Phillip. It feels like

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Speaker 4: a conversation we should be having at midnight, Michael, and

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Speaker 4: not so early here in the morning. So it's kind

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Speaker 4: of crazy. What about that idea, Michael, that reality may

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Speaker 4: not be something we simply perceive, but something we actually

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Speaker 4: actively participate in shaped by our consciousness itself.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot of ways we could go with

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Speaker 5: this too, you know, from the sort of you know,

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Speaker 5: modern new thought manifestation route simulation theory. But one thing

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Speaker 5: er I really gravitate toward, and you know, stay with

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Speaker 5: me here because this will eventually tie back into all

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Speaker 5: the phenomena and UFO stuff, though it may not sound

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Speaker 5: like it is. There's this cognitive scientist named doctor Donald

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Speaker 5: Hoffman yep, who is just absolutely brilliant. Like I mean,

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Speaker 5: this guy is just like you know, top level classically

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Speaker 5: trained intellect in math and hardcore cognitive science, you know,

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Speaker 5: like perception, and like this guy's written like technical textbooks

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Speaker 5: on perception. And what he believes is that this world

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Speaker 5: that we perceive that you were just mentioning, is just

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Speaker 5: an evolutionarily convenient illusion. It's like a computer desktop that

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Speaker 5: is not there to accurately portray reality. It's there to

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Speaker 5: let us know what will kill us, what will give

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Speaker 5: us a quote unquote evolutionary fitness payoff, you know, sex,

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Speaker 5: food status, whatever. But what's behind that usion is consciousness

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Speaker 5: and we are truly at our core what he calls

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Speaker 5: a conscious agent. So again to nutshell it we perceive

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Speaker 5: this computer desktop simulation world. But that's not what reality is.

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Speaker 5: What reality really is is what he calls this network

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Speaker 5: of conscious agents. And you know, if you talk to Don,

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Speaker 5: you can tell he has a lot of philosophical thoughts,

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Speaker 5: but he likes not to speculate too much about what

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Speaker 5: this realm of conscious agents is. But to me as

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Speaker 5: someone who is into all of this ancient stuff again

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Speaker 5: like I'm I'm particularly really into like neoplatonism and Platonism,

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Speaker 5: and even just explaining what I mean by that is

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Speaker 5: sort of like a rabbit hole that we might not

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Speaker 5: have time for. But they agree with what Don is saying.

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Speaker 5: But for them, these worlds of consciousness are populated by

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Speaker 5: a whole panoply of different kinds of beings, different ranks

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Speaker 5: of beings that I suspect have a lot to do

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Speaker 5: with what we now perceive as NHI or or alien intelligence.

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Speaker 5: And for them, the way that you got to the

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Speaker 5: truer reality was through the portal of your own consciousness,

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Speaker 5: was through through the portal of contemplation, ritual, uh technica

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Speaker 5: that's now lost to us, right, like things that you

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Speaker 5: if you pick up one of these old books and

430
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 5: you and you bash your brain against it and like

431
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 5: really try to read it. You're going to see that

432
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 5: there's some system that they're talking about. There's some initiations

433
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 5: they were talking about, some mystery schools or mystery initiations

434
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 5: they were talking about that they take extremely seriously. But

435
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 5: nowhere is it ever explicit. Nowhere does it say do this,

436
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 5: and then do this and then do this. Because that

437
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 5: was all like initiatory knowledge that only if if you know,

438
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 5: I would privately reveal to you after you know some

439
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 5: oath and you know, other things and study and all

440
00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 5: this other stuff.

441
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 4: Then they are that way too, because they have this knowledge,

442
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 4: they would't want to share that with everybody, right, right,

443
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 4: kind of like the technology of UFOs today. Yeah, one

444
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 4: one could correlate that.

445
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 5: And you know, you take one look at social media, right,

446
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 5: and it's sort of clear why you would keep these

447
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 5: things for a small group of initiates, right, because if

448
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 5: if you let this knowledge out, everybody can just run

449
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 5: wild with it and say whatever they want about it,

450
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 5: and then that has this effect where it's just like

451
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 5: degrades it and also just muddies the waters. You know,

452
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 5: if everybody's talking about it and saying this is what

453
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 5: it is. No, this is what it is. Multiply that

454
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 5: times a million, and you've got social media. You got

455
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 5: you got you got Twitter ufo, right, which I love. Well,

456
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,719
Speaker 5: let's be honest. It's it's a. It's a it's a

457
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 5: it's a it's a turbulent path to truth at best.

458
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 4: What a nice, soft, safe way to say that. Well done. Yeah,

459
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 4: it's tough. Hey, you know, much of this feels so

460
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 4: beyond our level of understanding at this point. You know,

461
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 4: you and Chris Ramsey were discussing this notion of perhaps

462
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 4: these UFOs and or even the beings that fly these UFOs,

463
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 4: may actually be this autonomous, you know, reactive machines that

464
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 4: are perhaps proliferated throughout the universe and are just reacting

465
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 4: to what we do, that the real intelligence behind these

466
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 4: aren't even necessarily here. That this is you know, it's

467
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 4: a very interesting line of thinking, and it makes sense

468
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 4: on some level. You can imagine how an intelligence million

469
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 4: years ahead of us could look at this all so

470
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 4: completely differently than we do and just send out these

471
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 4: ais to explore and monitor other worlds and be programmed

472
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 4: to do certain things. You know, what are your thoughts

473
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 4: on all.

474
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 5: That Yeah, it's a really interesting hypothesis that would explain

475
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 5: a lot. This notion that there is this and this

476
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 5: all kind of comes off the back of this now

477
00:26:54,880 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 5: famous Reddit whistleblower thread, claimed whistleblower thread, you know, where

478
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 5: this guy was claiming he worked on the inside of

479
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 5: this project. He's terminally ill, so screw it, I'm gonna

480
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 5: I'm gonna put all the information out. And this is

481
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 5: what he says. And Chris has covered this on his channel.

482
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 5: He's read through this whole transcript for anyone who's interested

483
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 5: in this. Super worth a watch. But that's what he

484
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 5: says is that hidden under the ocean, there are these

485
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 5: I forget the exact terminology he uses, but there are

486
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 5: these giants. Yeah yeah, these yeah, these giant mobile construction units.

487
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 5: That's it, These mobile construction units that are moving around

488
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 5: at like hyper speed underneath the ocean. They're massive, and

489
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 5: they essentially print UFOs on demand for whatever the need is.

490
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 5: And that's why we see the variety of shapes, because

491
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 5: one thing is better for one mission and other things

492
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 5: better for another mission. But then going even further, not

493
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 5: only are those made on demand, it seems like the

494
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 5: beings are made on demand as well, so that they

495
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 5: are these almost like biological drones and probably also psychical

496
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 5: drones based on what we know or what all the

497
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 5: lower seems to suggest that whatever these things are, and

498
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 5: whatever these craft are, they're being piloted psionically or psychically

499
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 5: by these things, because there's, again depending on which Laurie

500
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 5: you're reading, there seems to be like no controls inside

501
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 5: of these things. It's just a seat and that's it,

502
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 5: and it's something that the pilot psychically interacts with.

503
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 4: Michael. It also parallels the et encounters and abduction experiences

504
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 4: where people say oftentimes that these ets the grays do

505
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 4: not appear to be biological necessarily, that they seem robotic

506
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 4: oftentimes that report.

507
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, so it's extremely compelling stuff. And you know,

508
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 5: Chris probably brought this up too. But Matthew Brown, the

509
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 5: recent whistleblower who spoke with Knapp and Corbell on weaponized.

510
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 4: Constellation, right, yes, yeah.

511
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 5: Immaculate constellation leaker, he used a built he said, built

512
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 5: to speck or built to purpose or made to purpose

513
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 5: or something in a way that was just so eerie.

514
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 5: If you've read that Reddit testimony from the apparent whistleblower

515
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 5: it seemed like he was saying almost the exact same thing,

516
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 5: that there are these mysterious points of origin mobile construction

517
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 5: units where these things are made to purpose. And then

518
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 5: again he starts getting into some of the weird nebulous

519
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 5: consciousness stuff, or at least suggesting it in a way

520
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 5: that's very tantalizing but ultimately very frustration frustrating, you know,

521
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 5: like it's like you're hitting at all of these huge

522
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 5: things but not spelling anything out, and that puts us

523
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 5: back on the corkboard with the yarn right where we're

524
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 5: trying to be like, well, this is agent esoteric thing,

525
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 5: sounds like what he's saying, But then we're just left

526
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 5: to spin our wheels.

527
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 4: Isn't that how it is in ninety five percent of

528
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 4: all these ninety nine point nine percent of these cases. Listen,

529
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 4: we got to take a break here of Michael. When

530
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 4: we come back, we're going to continue this conversation and

531
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 4: talk about some of the various schools of thought that

532
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 4: are out there on where these intelligences may exist. You're

533
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 4: listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to

534
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 4: Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We're back on beyond Contact.

535
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 4: We're talking to Michael Phillip. Michael, listen. Listening to your

536
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 4: show and others, you start to hear all these different

537
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 4: schools of thought trying to explain what's happening, Going back

538
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 4: even to the ancient teachings that you study through today,

539
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 4: there's like all these different ideas. There's two earths and

540
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 4: ones more peaceful, and there's these different timelines, and there's

541
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 4: you know, beings traveling interdimensionally and then beings traveling outside

542
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 4: dimension that are above those beings. And there's entities that

543
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 4: are living adjacent to us, but they're on a different

544
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 4: vibrational level, beings living inside of Earth or the afterlife energy,

545
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 4: beings like beings. It goes on and on, but you

546
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 4: start thinking that maybe it's possible the universe is just

547
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 4: teaming with these various entities in these different realms, and

548
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 4: it's like you know, a giant MasterCard, like a little

549
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 4: tiny Venn diagram, and they just kind of are up

550
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 4: against each other and you kind of peek over, you know,

551
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 4: And on the other hand, you could start thinking, can

552
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 4: these all be right? It just doesn't seem possible. How

553
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 4: do you navigate so many different traditions.

554
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, man, it's PRECARYO. It's at best. What I ultimately

555
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 5: settle on is I think I'm always in knowledge acquisition mode.

556
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 5: Admittedly I'm not doing it in a systematic way. I'm

557
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,479
Speaker 5: following whatever seems interesting to me, you know, whatever people

558
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 5: seem compelling and valid to me. I was actually just

559
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 5: revisiting today the long version of the Jake Barber interview.

560
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 5: Total side note, But have you heard about this fictionalized

561
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 5: account that people have widely started surmising is written by

562
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 5: Jake Barber called Sentinels of the Ether? Man. This is

563
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 5: a whole thing that I don't even know if I

564
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 5: should bring up at this point in the conversation. But anyway,

565
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 5: if you look up Sentinels of the Ether, you'll find

566
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 5: a bunch of people saying it seems to be written

567
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 5: by Jake Barber. Uap Gerb just said in another interview

568
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 5: that it was written by Jake Barber. That guy seems

569
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 5: really well informed, well researched. Then you read Sentinels of

570
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 5: the Ether, and then you go back and watch Barber's interview,

571
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 5: let me tell you, light bulbs are going to start

572
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 5: going off. But so that's an example of what I

573
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 5: mean when I'm saying I'm always in information acquisition mode.

574
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 5: And that's again one of the points on why I

575
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 5: brought up Barber, because what to me is so interesting

576
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 5: about him is he keeps leaning on the association between

577
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 5: the phenomena and consciousness and saying, that's the real way

578
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 5: that you establish contact again is through consciousness. That's what

579
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 5: you hear from all these ancient sources. And now you're

580
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 5: hearing somebody who came directly out of the military industrial

581
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 5: complex and apparently this legacy program and is telling you

582
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 5: the exact same thing. And what I love about that is,

583
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 5: to an extent, it allows you to extricate yourself from

584
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 5: the disclosure narrative where somebody else needs to give you disclosure,

585
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 5: somebody else needs to tell you what's real. And he's

586
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 5: kind of telling you I was going to say with

587
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 5: a wink in a nudge, but it's overt he's telling

588
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 5: you overtly, you do this through consciousness. So start experimenting

589
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 5: with your own consciousness. You don't need the external disclosure,

590
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 5: you don't need congress, you don't need a Lockheed Martin

591
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 5: or whoever to like. Take the tarp off the craft

592
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 5: apparently you can make contact yourself. So I think that's

593
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 5: a really important aspect of all of this that removes

594
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 5: a lot of the frustration and where you can be

595
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 5: frustrated with your own consciousness and your own blockages and

596
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 5: attempts to connect with whatever this is. And I like that,

597
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 5: you know, That's part of how I navigated is when

598
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 5: I do become frustrated with all of these stories, all

599
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 5: these whistleblowers, I remind myself, am I really doing the work?

600
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 5: Am I really how's my meditation practice? When is my

601
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 5: next you know, visionary trip planned? And I think that's important.

602
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 5: I think there's got to be a way that, at

603
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 5: least for me as a seeker, there's a certain point

604
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 5: where I need to disconnect from all the stories and

605
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 5: turn it back in on myself and ask myself, what

606
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 5: do I really want to get out of this to

607
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 5: begin with? Like what is it just entertainment? Is is

608
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 5: it a way for me to sense make or is

609
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 5: it a way for me to really learn something about

610
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 5: my own consciousness and where it sits within reality? And

611
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 5: to me, if it's not the latter, if it's not

612
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 5: that last thing I just said, it's sort of like

613
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 5: maybe who cares then if it's not going to change

614
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 5: my own onto logical position, my own understanding of reality,

615
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 5: what is this?

616
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 4: No? I agree, man? You know, Jeffrey Hinton just recently

617
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 4: said a couple of days ago that the future AI

618
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 4: systems might be able to control humans just as easily

619
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 4: as an adult can control a three year old with candy. Well,

620
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 4: you can imagine how any of these intelligences that are

621
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 4: far superior than ours they could easily manipulate us. It

622
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 4: feels like we have this hubris to think that we

623
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 4: understand what is happening, at least perhaps at the government level.

624
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 4: It seems like they would think that when I doubt

625
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 4: they have a fraction of what the whole picture really is.

626
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 4: I feel like all of us are just in the

627
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 4: infancy of understanding our capabilities of how consciousness works, even

628
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 4: though these are old traditions. I think we are now,

629
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 4: with our technology, at the very infancy of this, and

630
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 4: that in one hundred years or five hundred years, we

631
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 4: are going to have a vastly different understanding and control

632
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 4: over our consciousness, just like these other entities probably already do.

633
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's one of the most terrifying but

634
00:35:55,160 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 5: very real possibilities that puts us in an incredible bind

635
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 5: as a species. And this again really evokes Valet a lot,

636
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 5: because he has this idea of the of this control

637
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 5: system right that's interacting with human consciousness and it's portraying

638
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 5: itself in all different kinds of ways, and at the

639
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 5: end of the day, it's almost like, we better hope

640
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 5: that whatever that has our best interests in mind, because

641
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 5: if not, it gets very dystopian very quickly, Like if

642
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 5: you have some higher AI intelligence or intelligence of any kind,

643
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 5: that's just like gaslighting human consciousness, manipulating human consciousness, because

644
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 5: my god, we're pretty easy to manipulate. I think, you know,

645
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 5: like show me your your typical guy, and I could

646
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 5: probably guess, well, like throw a honey trap here, throw

647
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 5: a couple dollars over this way, and we get that

648
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,720
Speaker 5: guy going on that trail real fast.

649
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 4: Look how easy is you can imagine somebody way beyond us.

650
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 4: It's just whing You bring up Vallet over and over

651
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 4: because you know, it's been this growing interesting idea that

652
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 4: alien encounters are tied to consciousness. Even people like John

653
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 4: Max seemed to believe this. Later on that the et

654
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 4: phenomenon was tied deeply to consciousness, and VLA used to

655
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 4: say that, you know, he thought, like a technology that

656
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 4: involves modifying consciousness. So these are hard science guys, you know.

657
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's spooky too because I think about my own

658
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 5: experiences and your mind starts to run wild, where you know,

659
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 5: these things happened to you like once in your life, right,

660
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 5: like once in your life. You might go out of body,

661
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 5: which you know happened to me at Monroe Institute, or

662
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 5: you have some experience in an ayahuasca ceremony that's just

663
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 5: utterly mind blowing that you you know, I random, my

664
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 5: journal effort happened. I just kept writing down that was real,

665
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 5: that was real, that was real because I knew two

666
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 5: three weeks down the line, I'd be like, was that

667
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 5: really real?

668
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 4: You know?

669
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 5: But it was so hyper real in the moment. And

670
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 5: then to confront the idea that that could have been

671
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 5: a manipulation, or that could have been some trickster intelligence

672
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 5: or technology messing with your mind, such a terrifying possibility

673
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 5: because if it's something has the ability to engineer experiences

674
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 5: that seem like the most meaningful, reality altering experience as

675
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 5: a human being, can have again. We pretty much have

676
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 5: no hope but to hope that that thing has our

677
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 5: best interest in mind.

678
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 4: I hope that the other thing is true and that

679
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 4: it is real. Did I hear you have a Third

680
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 4: Eye Drops book club? I think this is such a

681
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 4: great idea. I love it. I used to always ask

682
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 4: every guest on my old shows, what should I read?

683
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 4: What should I read? You know, I kind of stopped

684
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 4: doing that, but I would love to ask you A

685
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 4: do you have that book club? And b give us

686
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 4: a couple of books that you feel are the best

687
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 4: that address the phenomenon.

688
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 5: I do have one. It's just for patrons, so you

689
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 5: got to be a Third Eye Drops patron to get

690
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 5: in on it. I've sort of hit pause on it

691
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 5: because I'm just doing so many other things. But yeah,

692
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 5: we've read a ton of stuff, from fiction to nonfiction,

693
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 5: stuff about the phenomena, not about the phenomena, books like A.

694
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 4: Vola's Phenomena by Jacobson.

695
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 5: Phenomena is actually one of my favorite books on the

696
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 5: topic of SI. It's amazingly well researched. If you've heard

697
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 5: about Project Stargate and you have sort of like a

698
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 5: foggy idea of what went down there. Annie Jacobson's Phenomena

699
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 5: is an insanely well researched overview of the US government

700
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,439
Speaker 5: and intelligence agencies involvement in psychic phenomena and way even

701
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 5: beyond remote viewing, though including remote viewing. Thanks for bringing

702
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 5: that one up. That really was one of my favorites.

703
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,760
Speaker 5: We've read books like Invisible College by Valet, Operation Trojan

704
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 5: Horse by Keel, and then stuff like Theorgy and the

705
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 5: Soul by Shaw, which is another that has to do

706
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 5: with these ancient mystical traditions where you'll pick it up

707
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 5: you'll just think to yourself, holy shit, there is this

708
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,479
Speaker 5: entire library of information that is lost that is being

709
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 5: alluded to by all of these ancient stages, and it

710
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 5: has everything to do with whatever these intelligences are. So yeah,

711
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 5: there's so many men. If you really approach with this

712
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 5: collective interest in the phenomena in the back of your mind,

713
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 5: you're going to find so many breadcrumbs. I hope you

714
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 5: grow to enjoy the labyrinth, because it's either going to

715
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 5: drive you crazy or you got to start to just

716
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 5: love the process and love the rabbit hole. And I

717
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 5: think that's where I'm at.

718
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 4: That's where he's that guys. You can find him at

719
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 4: Third Eye Drops on YouTube. It's an outstanding podcast. I

720
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 4: highly recommend it. You can find me on Twitter and

721
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 4: Instagram at civ Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking

722
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 4: out contact indedesert dot com. Stay open minded and rational

723
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 4: as we explore the unknown right here on the iHeartRadio

724
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 4: and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.

725
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost

726
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 1: Ay and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out

727
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going

728
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:59,640
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