1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. All Right, welcome to the wire Hunt podcast, 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: brought to you by on X. Today, we've got Kip Adams. Now, 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: a lot of you are probably familiar with Kip. He 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: works over at the Equality Deer Management Association. He's been 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: on the podcast many times before, and most of those 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: have been for this State of the White Tail Union 9 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: podcast that we have each year. Kip will tell you 10 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: more about this in a second, but a very high 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: level overview of what we're gonna do here is review 12 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: a document, a report that Kip helps develop every year 13 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: which highlights the top stories and issues and data across 14 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: the deer hunting world each year. So looking at harvest data, 15 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: looking at big trends, looking at various issues that are 16 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: of importance at this time for deer and deer hunting. 17 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: That's the kind of stuff we're gonna talk about. So 18 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: we're covering I don't know, dear harvest numbers, AIG structure, 19 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: other trends in deer population and deer hunting, changes and 20 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: weapons use and how that's impact two populations up changes 21 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: and hunter numbers and recruitment, a little bit on the 22 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: latest with diseases like e h D and c w 23 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: D and other major legislative proposals that are important for 24 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: US hunters to know about. All that kind of stuff 25 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: that we as deer hunters need to stay on top of. 26 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: KIP is going to help us cover, So I don't 27 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: want to beat around the bush too much today. UM 28 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: don't have Dan. We'll catch up with Dan next week, 29 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: So today we'll be kind of quick one, so we'll 30 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: get right into it. I just want to give you 31 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: a couple of quick reminders on some other things you 32 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: can be checking out. If it's you know, it's that 33 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: winter time frame, Kevin fever setting in. If you're like me, 34 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: you're dreaming of wanting to be outside doing some of 35 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: these different things. So let me recommend two things for you. 36 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: Number One, if you still haven't watched the Back forty series, 37 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: highly highly highly recommend you do that. That is the 38 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: TV show essentially that I was the host of last year, 39 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: documenting the story of us buying and learning and starting 40 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: the process of trying to improve this property in Michigan 41 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: and then hunting it. Check it on out. So over 42 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: in the Meat Eater YouTube channel. There's eight episodes and 43 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: very proud of how they turned out, and the new 44 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: season is starting to be filmed here very shortly. So 45 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: make sure you're all caught up. Number two, if you're 46 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: craving some big public land adventure, if you're craving western 47 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: hunting trip or float trip, or climbing a mountain, or 48 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: hunting elk or hunting caribou, if any of those things 49 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: are in your mind these days when you lay in 50 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: bed at night. A book you might really enjoy is 51 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: That Wild Country. That's my new book I published just 52 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: a couple of months ago. If you haven't picked up 53 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: a copy yet, it would mean the world if you could. 54 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: So far, reviews have been great. People are really enjoying it, 55 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: which is amazing to hear. So so glad and fortunate 56 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,119 Speaker 1: and thankful that people are are liked what I put 57 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: out there. So pick up a copy of That Wild 58 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: Country by one for a cousin and uncle and aunt, 59 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: a buddy, anyone who you think needs to know more 60 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: about the outside the wilderness pursuits the story of our 61 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: public land. Graham mccopy, get them learned up. I certainly 62 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: would appreciate that too, So there's your homework. Check out 63 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: that Wild Country and the Back forty series. Alright, back 64 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: with me on the show is Kip Adams. Thank you 65 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: Kip for being here again. Absolutely mark my pleasure. Always 66 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: enjoy getting to catch up and especially our our annual 67 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: check in for this reason. I particularly enjoy because what 68 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about today is the QTUM a white 69 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: Tail Report which you guys put together every year, and 70 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: it does a really great job for me at least 71 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: of kind of resetting my mind, not just on how 72 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: my personal hunting is going that I do myself, but 73 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: this kind of gives me this big picture idea of 74 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: what's the state of white tail hunting and white tailed 75 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: deer across the country. And I love the fact that 76 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: you guys do this, So thanks for doing so much work. 77 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure it's no easy task. I have my pleasure. 78 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a data guy and certainly a dear junkie, 79 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,119 Speaker 1: so it's nice to kind of have the first look 80 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: at all of this dear info from across the white 81 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: tails range. Yeah, So for people that haven't heard one 82 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: of these in the past or are not familiar with 83 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: the White Tailer Report. Can you just give us the 84 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: quick cliff notes of what this thing is that you 85 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: guys put together. Sure, we've been doing this now since 86 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, so more than a decade of 87 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: new reports. And uh, what we realized was, you know, 88 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: we had all this access to information and with our 89 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: state and provincial wildlife agencies, you know, when hunters were 90 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: craving this info. So we started doing an annual survey 91 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: where we contacted every state in provincial wildlife agencies dear 92 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: project later and asked them a series of questions on 93 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: the prior seasons buck harvest and doe harvest age, structure 94 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: of those harvest um other hunting related things, you know, 95 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: like how many deer were shot with the firearm versus 96 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: a bow versus a muzzleloader, and and then ask questions 97 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: on just the biggest current topics going on, you know 98 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: during that given year, whether it was disease related or 99 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: you know, cross bowl related or whatever the case was. 100 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: And then we compile it all together and put it 101 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: in this annual report, and uh, folks can look at it, 102 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, on a state by state basis kind of 103 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: see how your state compares to others number of bucks 104 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: that you killed per square a mile and those per 105 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: square a mile, and you know, all kinds of fun 106 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: ways to just kind of gauge, you know, what's going 107 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: on in the deer harvest world as well as other 108 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: big issues impacting hunters. So you know, if you're a 109 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: dear person, it's it's a one stop shop for kind 110 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: of you know, the state of the Union address with 111 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: regard to white tail hunting. Yeah, is there any other 112 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: organization or governmental entity that is looking at this stuff 113 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: at a national level, because every state is doing this individually. 114 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: But I've never heard of anyone who's looking at the 115 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: big picture other than you guys. Well, yeah, I don't 116 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: know if anybody that's put together, you know, or compiled 117 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: as much in nationally as we have. And the thing 118 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: that's pretty cool about it, as you know, in the 119 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: early years, when we contacted the state agencies, uh, some 120 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: of them were a little reluctant to give us some information, 121 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: and you know, but once we convinced them, hey, we 122 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: are trying, you know, to to help share this information. 123 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: You know, and it's good for the agencies as well 124 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: because they can see what's going on in their neighboring 125 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: states and in other regions, and over the years we 126 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: have received tremendous accolades from hunters for sure, from the media, 127 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: but also from the state and provincial agency folks saying, hey, 128 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: you know, this is extremely helpful, you know, for us too, 129 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,239 Speaker 1: so that that's the goal of love it is to 130 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: to share good information and help. So it's always nice 131 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: to hear folks, you know, and all of those different 132 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: disciplines you know, say hey, we use this and thanks 133 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: for compiling it. Oh yeah, given the fact that this 134 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: is kind of unique what you guys are doing compared 135 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: to PRIB what any state has, has there been any 136 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, major epiphany or any kind of management 137 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: change or anything that's come about because of the day 138 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: out of you guys have put together, like the big 139 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: picture story. Has that given a light ball to any 140 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: organization or state that's led to some kind of change there. 141 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: We hear a handful of stories each year where an 142 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: agency will thank us for a certain chapter that's in there. 143 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: Um For example, a perfect example in this year's report, 144 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: one of the chapters is on starting time for for 145 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: firearm season. You know, when the vast majority the state's 146 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: hunters get to start a half hour before sunrise. You know, 147 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: that's listed as the official start time. Um, well, there's 148 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: one state in New York and actually New York is 149 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: the only state in the country that makes their hunters 150 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: wait until sunrise. And um, so they don't get to 151 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: you know, that first half hour. Well, about five or 152 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: six years ago, or actually maybe a little more than that, now, 153 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: Ohio's hunters used to be in the same boat. And 154 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: by collecting some information from surrounding states and putting together 155 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: a little plan and saying, hey, you know, you guys 156 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: are one of the only ones that make your hunters 157 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: wait until sunrise. Um, Ohio DNR was actually able to 158 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: change their regulations so they now started half hour before sunrise, 159 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: you know, in large part because you could compare it 160 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: to other states. So New York is kind of in 161 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: that same boat right now, where their hunters in their agency, 162 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: and I know their agency would like to at least 163 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: some in their agency would like to change that as well. 164 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: So you know, it's a it's a nice educational tool 165 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: for that because they can look and say, look, you know, 166 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: every other state in the country, you know, allows their 167 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: hunters to start a half hour before sunrise. You know, 168 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: there's not safety issues with that. So um, anyway, we 169 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: have seen examples like that where because the data is 170 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: together and it's you know, both a regional and a 171 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: national look um, that's enabled state agencies to change some 172 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: of the ways that they manage dear. You know, that's 173 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: a little more uniform with the rest of the country. 174 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: So that's pretty cool. We're glad that we can help 175 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, I bet Matt Ross is pretty excited 176 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: spearhead that project. Absolutely, So yeah, Matt is definitely in 177 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: favor of getting an extra half hour. Yeah, for sure. 178 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: I can't imagine not being able to hunt that first 179 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: half hour of daylight. That's tough. I know. You know 180 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: what's funny about that too, is that South Carolina is 181 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: the only state that goes more than that, and and 182 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: they're hunters are allowed to start an hour before sunrise. 183 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: So yeah, that that's a little far. That was my 184 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: sentiments exactly, you know, And sometimes we get they like 185 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: then say, oh, geez, you know, did we input this 186 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 1: data wrong or you know, the agency guy tell us wrong. 187 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: So we confirmed, you know, with the South Carolina DNR, 188 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: and they said, no, that's that's right, that's that's when 189 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: we start. So yeah, the same thing, like wow, that 190 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: is you know, there's lots of times, you know, with 191 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: the you know, real bright now you just get snow 192 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: on the ground, you can definitely see you know, maybe 193 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: a little before a half hour before sunrise, but I'm 194 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: thinking it an hour an hour it is pushing half 195 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: hour before sunrise always seemed like just right, It's like 196 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: that that natural breaking point where colors start to pop 197 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: a little more. Okay, yeah, all right, it's daylight, it's time, um, 198 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: but an hour it could be pitch black almost, that's right. Ah, well, 199 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: that's interesting. So let's let's let's talk about this year, 200 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: the two thousand twenty report, and this examines two thousand 201 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: eighteen season data. Correct that you're that you're reviewing that 202 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: comes out in nineteen, That is correct. Yep. So the 203 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: most recent season hunting season where the data is all 204 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: in and compiled and able to be to be shared 205 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: is with you know, through the two thousand and eighteen 206 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: and into nineteen hunting season. And because actually right now, 207 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: you know there's still a few hunting seasons, you know 208 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: that they're just finishing up. Actually Alabama still going so 209 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: so some people say, well, jeez, if it's the twenty report, 210 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: you know why you're using eighteen data. Well, it's because 211 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: you know, the nineteen hunting season technically is not done 212 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: yet everywhere and that data is not available. So so yeah, 213 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: so it's the most recent season that's all done and 214 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: data is shared with the country. Okay, so what's the 215 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: high level grade? Like if you were the professor and 216 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: you're class was the United States deer hunting season and 217 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: you're going to rate that season on a F through 218 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: a scale, UM, in some kind of somewhat objective way, 219 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: how would you rate this season? Well, I will, I'll 220 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: break that into two and I actually give it two grades. 221 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: I'll give it one for for the buck harvest side 222 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: of that, and I'll give you one for the antalyst 223 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: harvest side, and UM for the buck harvest side. Hunters 224 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: definitely would rate it as an a. UM. It was 225 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: one of the highest buck harvests of all time, and 226 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 1: that's saying a lot because you know, the historically our 227 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: our country has was very very good at shooting bucks 228 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: and we are at historically high numbers. Again, UM that 229 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 1: there was the total buck harvest was over two point 230 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: nine million antler deer, you know, and that does not 231 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: count buck fons. Buck fons going to antalyst side, so 232 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: deers that are one and a half and older, it 233 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: was over two point nine million. That actually was down 234 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: just a hair from the year before. UM, but we're 235 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: still way above national averages. So from the buck side, UM, 236 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: definitely in a lots of bucks. And we'll touch on 237 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: age structure here in a minute, but unbelievable age structure, 238 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: so lots of bucks. Arguably the best age structure ever. 239 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: So we get an A for that from the antilis side, UM, 240 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: a little lower grade for that, but we can we 241 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: can talk more a little more about the buck harvest 242 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: first before we get into the antlest side, if you'd like, sure, yeah, 243 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: So so let's expand on the age structure thing. Then, UM, 244 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: looks like the trend that has been going for a 245 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 1: decade or a decade and a half or so now continues, right, 246 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: that is correct. And we have been monitoring the age 247 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: structure of the buck harvest since so uh a long time, 248 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: and last year UM, it was literally the best age 249 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: structure in our country's history. UM, and I would say 250 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: that the best buy we monitor the percentage of all 251 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: the buckshot that were one and a half years old, 252 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: those that were two and a half years old, and 253 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: then those that were three and a half and older. 254 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: So it kind of group all of those older ones 255 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: together and last year only thirty so less than a 256 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 1: third of all the buck shot we're one and a 257 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: half years old, and that is by far the lowest 258 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: percentage in US history. Wow. Now, this is when you 259 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: average out across all the states. That right, there's some 260 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: states that are much higher than that, there's some states 261 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: that are much lower. Correct, that is correct, yep. So, uh, 262 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: the you know, the average to give you a feel 263 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 1: of nine when we started monitoring this over of all 264 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: the buckshot we're just one and a half years old. 265 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: So that statistic has been more than cut in half today. 266 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: So you know when some people look at that and say, 267 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: you know what, why is this a good thing? Well, 268 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: essentially what that means is, you know, if we are 269 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: protecting the majority of yearling bucks each year, that allows 270 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: the majority to you know, at least hit two and 271 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: a half years of age and we can go ahead 272 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: and start shooting them, then that's fine. But the good 273 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: thing is we won't get them all, so some will 274 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: become three and a half, some will become four and 275 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: a half and five half, etcetera. And once we had 276 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: that balanced age structure on the buck side, you know, 277 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: that's very natural for dear populations. It's very healthy form. 278 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: That's how they evolved, that's how their social order works best. 279 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: So as managers, you know, we should be interested in 280 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: making sure we do match that natural age structure and 281 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: uh with with what we're shooting today and allows that 282 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: to happen. So that's a really good place to be. 283 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: Can you expand on what you're just saying there as 284 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: far as the benefits of that balanced age structure, because 285 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: you get this a lot where people say, well, you 286 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: just wanna you talk about this management, but it's really 287 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: just because you want big antler deer um. Not as 288 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: many people understand the benefits from a health perspective and 289 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: a habitat perspective and all that. Can you just give 290 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: us a little primer in that too, just for people 291 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: that maybe aren't familiar. Sure, deer are very social, far 292 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: more social than most people realize, and they evolved under 293 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: this very complex social order where they are always sharing 294 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: information at rubs and at scrapes. They're leaving information there 295 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: through pheromones, where you know, younger deer pick up on 296 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: these cues, and there's a whole social order that works 297 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: based on havin this complete age structure of deer that 298 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: are you know, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven 299 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: years old and older. And uh, all of that starts 300 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: to fall apart if you don't have those older animals there. Now, 301 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: some people say, well, you know, all of those out 302 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: there will be bread even if you only have young deer. 303 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: And and that is true, even if all the bucks 304 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: are only one and a half years old. Sure they 305 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: can handle the breaching requirements for that dear herd. But 306 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: that's a pretty poor measure of heart health. So a 307 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: much better measure is, hey, let's let's make sure that 308 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: we're managing for dear herd that is natural. And if 309 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: you look today mark and unhunted populations of deer, like 310 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: in urban areas or other places we just can't hunt. 311 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: They have very advanced age structures. If you look in 312 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: Native American trash piles where they can pull out jawbones, 313 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: and you know, before white Man had a big impact, 314 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: they had very advanced age structures. So I mean that's 315 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: just a natural thing, and so it's wildlife managers we 316 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: should strive to, you know, produce what would naturally happen anyway, 317 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: and that happens when we have very balanced age structure 318 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: as a deer. That less the social orders work, that 319 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: keeps those those younger bucks from spending so much energy 320 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: in the phone winner trying to breed. It allows them 321 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: to have more body fat going into winter, so survival 322 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: is higher. They're healthier in the spring at green up. 323 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: So there's a whole bunch of pieces that play into that. 324 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it's it's very 325 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: clear that balanced age structures for white tailed deer are 326 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: certainly good for hunters because we have the opportunity to 327 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: pursue order bucks. That is true. However, they're also very 328 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: important for the deer hurt themselves. Is this the biggest 329 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: change that you guys have seen since starting the white 330 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: tail report? If you were looking over this from from 331 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: the first report to now we're from when you were 332 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: tracking things first, and you look at all this data 333 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: that you've been studying year after year after year, is 334 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 1: this the most substantial difference or is there anything else 335 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: that stands out? Like, hey, this is a lot different 336 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 1: than it used to be as well. There's there's two 337 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: really big differences. This is definitely one of them where 338 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: you know, age structure has changed, so you know, only 339 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: thirty nowur one and thirty seven percent of the buck 340 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: harvest last year was at least three years old, so 341 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: there were three or four or five that is by 342 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: far the highest percentage of those older bucks. So literally 343 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: that's a you know, a monumental change and what's going on. 344 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: So there's also one other huge change that we can 345 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: address next. But this age structure difference is definitely one 346 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: of the two biggest things that has changed since we 347 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: began writing this back in two thousand nine. So then 348 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 1: what's the next one. The next one is actually the 349 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: h the sex ratio of the harvest. Um. I told 350 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: you that we shot over two point nine million bucks 351 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: last year and it's record high buck harvest numbers. Uh. 352 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: The flip side of that is the analyst side. So 353 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: while I would give us A for the bucks hide, UM, 354 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: we are a lot closer to a C grade C 355 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: for the ant of a side. And and the reason 356 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 1: for that is um, for the second year in a row, 357 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: we shot more bucks than we did aunt lois dear. Um, 358 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: the first time in US history that we shot more 359 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: ant lists deer than we did bucks was back and uh, 360 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: and that was a historic year managing deer. Because for 361 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: most of the white tails range, we need to be 362 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: shooting more does than bucks each year for to have 363 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 1: healthy populations. There are certainly some places in the country, Um, 364 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: New England comes to mind, Florida comes to mind, where 365 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: we can be successful by shooting more bucks than does 366 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: each year. But for the vast majority of the country 367 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: that is not the case. So well, in your home 368 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: state of Michigan, think of it this way, you know, 369 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: and the u P you know, you can be successful, 370 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: you know, by eating about the same number of bucks 371 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: as does in the up you know, that keeps deer 372 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: herds in check, it keeps things bound. But in the 373 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: southern you know, peninsula, you can't be successful or you 374 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: have to shoot more analysts deer. Well, we have been 375 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: doing that for a long time, and that's really one 376 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: of the reasons. You know, the foundation of q d 377 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: m A is, Hey, you know, let's balance deer hers 378 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: the habitat. We do that by protecting some of those 379 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: young bucks and focusing an effort on DOES, so was 380 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: a landmark year and then for a couple of decades 381 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 1: after that we continued to shoot way more antalysts year 382 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: than bucks. Well, two years ago that changed. There was 383 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: the first year since in the late nineties that we 384 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: actually shot more bucks than does and it was just 385 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: a few more, a few thousand, that was it. Well, 386 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: last year the gap we got wider. We again shot 387 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: a lot more bucks than analysts deer, and we shot 388 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: almost fifty thousand more bucks across the US. So that's 389 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: not good. The analyst harvest has dropped about in the 390 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: last decade. Um. In some places that's needed. We've had 391 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 1: places where we've balanced deer herds and places where we've 392 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: lost a lot of deer to disease, but uh, in 393 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: much of the country, hum that is not the case. 394 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: So we are absolutely going the wrong way with the 395 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: antle of the side and that showed again last year. 396 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: So what do you think gives? Yeah, what do you think? 397 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: What's behind that? Is that because hunters don't think the 398 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: dear populations are where they should be. So it's a 399 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: choice to try to you know, re established populations that 400 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,959 Speaker 1: hunters don't think are large enough or is this I mean, 401 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what's the theory behind it. Do you 402 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 1: have one? I think yeah, I think there's a couple 403 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,479 Speaker 1: of things. One is, um, there are still a faction 404 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: of hunters who you know, who just simply don't want 405 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,239 Speaker 1: to shoot antlerst deer. Um. It tends to be a 406 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: lot older hunters. UM. Younger and newer hunters tend to 407 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: be much more uh likely to shoot antlest deer, to 408 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: put that meat in the freezer, to do their part 409 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: for conservation and be good stewards of the natural resources. 410 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: So you still have some people who just choose to 411 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: to not shoot antlerwis deer. And part of it is 412 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: we have some pretty liberal buck bag limits in a 413 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: lot of the country, so people would just rather, you know, 414 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: shoot something with antlers than not. And uh I get that. 415 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: But one of the dangers of that is we've actually 416 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: looked this was this data came from last year's wait 417 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: Till report. What we found is across the country, less 418 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: than half of all the hunters in the US will 419 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: shoot a deer in any given year. It's only so 420 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: four out of ten hunters kill a deer. H Only 421 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: hunters kill more than one deer. So it's a small 422 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: number of people who shoot multiple deer a year. So 423 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: you me and our friends worthy anomally the ones that 424 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: are killed. I can't imagine that. You know, the Adams 425 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: family eats a lot more than two deer a year, 426 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: but because it has since such a small number shoots 427 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: more than one deer um, a lot of states allow 428 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: people to you know, kill at least two bucks. So 429 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: with that, you know, if the average person is only 430 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: shooting one, they prefer to shoot a buck. And if 431 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: that small number that gets to shoot more than one, 432 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: you know, they often, if they have a chance, they 433 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: will take a second buck too. So we're just we're 434 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: focused on too much effort, even though our buck age 435 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: structure is really really good. You know, these historically high 436 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: buck harvest rates is because you know, if people take 437 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: that second deer, and it's a small number, they do, 438 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: but for those that do, many of them take another buck. 439 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,439 Speaker 1: And we're just simply not putting enough effort on the 440 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: antlers side. Yeah, okay, so I know this is well 441 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 1: tried ground, but again, let's assume there's new hunters listening. 442 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: Why is it important that we try to take out 443 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: some of these antler list deer and manage them a 444 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: little bit better. Why is this so important? What happens 445 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: when we don't do that? Well? The way that we 446 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: control dear populations um is through the analyst harvest. You know, 447 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: we can shoot all the bucks we want, but that's 448 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: not controlling population growth. In most cases, we have to 449 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: shoot the handle of the side. So and we want 450 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 1: to keep deer herds healthy, and we do that when 451 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: we have balanced sex raciers. Now, if you take all 452 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 1: the phones born in Michigan this year, or my home 453 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: state of Pennsylvania anywhere else, about half of them are 454 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: buck ponds, and about half our dough phones. So just 455 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: from that, you have to shoot about the same numbers 456 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: of bucks as does each year just to keep that 457 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: sex racial balance, keep that dear hurt healthy, and have 458 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: any chance of keeping dear from becoming too overabundant. So 459 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: that's uh, that's the very quick and dry and short way. 460 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: And say, hey, it is so important. And I'll tell 461 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: you now, whether the spread of c w D it's 462 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: becoming more and more clear than in these disease zones, 463 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: it is even more important to focus additional harvest effort 464 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: on these dose or we're just absolutely losing the disease game. Yeah, 465 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: I want to talk about that specifically in a minute. Um, 466 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: But one more clarifying question on the over abundance thing again, 467 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: just to get folks up to speed here, what happens 468 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: to a deer herd and an area when you have 469 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: way too many deer? What are because there's a whole 470 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: cascade of effects when your dear populations out of whack 471 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: with the habitat. Can you just walk us through that 472 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: a little bit? Sure, deer eat a lot and and 473 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: the average deer eats about two thousand pounds of food 474 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: a year, so smaller deery less than that. Bigger deer 475 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: eat more, but on average they're eating a ton of peace. 476 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: So you know, that's a lot of food that we 477 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: have to provide. And as soon as we have more 478 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: deer than we have adequate food available, what they start 479 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: doing is then the deer herd starts degrading that habitat, 480 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: and then they're being nutritionally deprived, so they're not as 481 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: healthy as they were. And then what that means is 482 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: as they start degrading the habitat, then other wildlife species 483 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: are negatively impacted. You know, the habitat is negatively impacted, 484 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: and then since they are degraded next year, that area 485 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 1: can't so hold as many deer as it could this year, 486 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: so it can support fewer deer next year and then 487 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: fewer the year after that at And you know, from 488 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: a hunting end, that's absolutely the wrong way we want 489 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: to go, you know, and just from being a good steward, 490 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: that's wrong. So we want to make sure that there's 491 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: not more dear then we have good food for because 492 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: that negatively impacts all the wildlife species and all that 493 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: habitat that's there headed in the wrong direction. So the 494 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 1: cool thing is, though, as soon as we balance that 495 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: deer heard and shoot enough anti list dear, the deer 496 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: that are left are healthier, they have more phones, the 497 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: habitat is healthier, which means it's better for turkeys and 498 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: songbirds and non game species. You know, it's a it's 499 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: a win win when we when we pull the trigger 500 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 1: on enough antler lists here. Yeah, and then from a 501 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: hunting perspective to wouldn't you agree that having that better 502 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: balanced antler list side will lead to a more intense run, 503 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: which is going to give you a more fun hunting 504 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 1: experience too, absolutely absoluta, and that puts more bucks on 505 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: their feet more during daylight hours during the fall, which 506 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: is you know exactly what we want. You you've never 507 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: heard of hunters say, ma'am, when I go hunting today, 508 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 1: I hope the bucks are just not moving. We don't 509 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: want But if you have way more ant lists here 510 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: than than bucks, that's that's often what happens because they 511 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: don't have to move very far to find the dough. 512 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, balanced age structures make deer move more, and 513 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: they make them move more during daylight hours, which which 514 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: is good for us as hunters. So okay, so that's 515 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: what's going on from a bucking Doe harvest. We talked 516 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: about age structure. Any other big things that stood out 517 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: to you this year as far as headlines for the report, Yeah, 518 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: one of them because of this whole antlest thing where 519 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 1: we're not shooting as many deer. Um. We asked all 520 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: the states a question, Hey, You're like, what is your 521 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: preference for the antlest harvest in your state? You know, 522 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: do you want to see him shoot more ant list 523 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: you than box or about the same number or more bucks? 524 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: And does like we wanted to see what the philosophy 525 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: of the agencies were, and it was it was extremely 526 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 1: really you know, what we found is the vast majority 527 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: of the Northeast they want to buck harvest I'm sorry, 528 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: the antlest harvest to be more than the bucklers. You know, okay, 529 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: we know we need to feel more anless here. Um. 530 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: The exception of that was New England and New England. Um, 531 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: they want to shoot more bucks than those simply because 532 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: they just don't. They can't sustain the same type of 533 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: harvest that you can or we can hear, you know 534 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: that's right, yep. And then the severe winters and you know, 535 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: and and fawn recruitment is lower, so they just don't. 536 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,959 Speaker 1: They're just those jeer herbs aren't as productive as you know, um, 537 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: places where it's a little easier to live. But but 538 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: so most of the Northeast wants to shoot more antless 539 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: gem bucks. The Southeast it was different, and most of 540 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: that says, you know what, as long as the buck 541 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: harvest is about equal to aurinless harmers were pretty good 542 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: that that's what we'd like to see. So, uh, that's 543 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: very different from what we have in the Northeast and 544 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: the Midwest is kind of in between the two. Some 545 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: of the states wanted more those some didn't. And you guys, 546 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: actually the Lower Peninsula said absolutely, was like, we need 547 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: to shoot more antless gum bucks. The up was about 548 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 1: the same, you know, same number of each And uh, 549 00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: this this is very helpful because there's a lot of 550 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 1: ters that here when I talk about are you or others? 551 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: And but where they're from really matters. So for example, 552 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: if you're from Florida, you know, area that's just from 553 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: not real productive soils, not real productive deer herds, you know, 554 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 1: you just can't sustain anywhere near the same levels of 555 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: antless harvest as a Michigan or Pennsylvania or Io or those. 556 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: So so it's very helpful for hunters to see, hey, 557 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: what's my agency's philosophy on this, because then it allows them, 558 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: you know, to help more during the deer season, either 559 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: shoot an extra antless deer or two extra antlow list 560 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: deer or wherever the case is. So it can allow 561 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: them to be a better partner and more engaged on 562 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: what's going on. You know. One of the things, Uh, 563 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,479 Speaker 1: this is a little bit of a segue, but it 564 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: brings to mind another one of the topics you guys 565 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: cover in their port. And one of the things that 566 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: hunters have been worried about for many years has that 567 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: has been the introduction of crossbows. And the theory being 568 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: that if we introduced crossbows seasons, that's going to get 569 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: way too many deer being killed by these cross bows 570 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: that are too easy for people to use, and that's 571 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: going to result in the crash of deer populations or 572 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: or some other issues. UM. You guys took a look 573 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: a little bit at crossbows this year in the report. 574 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: Is there any truth to that kind of impact that 575 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: crossbows could have or what have you guys seen as 576 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: far as that introduction. Over the last I don't know, 577 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: a decade or fifteen years or however long it's been, 578 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: the crossbows have been more and more popularly utilized. That's 579 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: a great question, and that is a growing concern by many. UM. 580 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: One of the things that that we looked at in 581 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: this report is we take a look at the total 582 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: dear Hardest and we asked you just says, hey, what 583 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: percentagees was taken by a bow or muzzleloader or a 584 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: firearm and and the bows, bow and crossboard together, and 585 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: what we saw you know, we've been monitoring this for 586 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: a long time and UH, fifteen to twenty years ago, 587 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: only about the total harvest was taken by bows. You know. 588 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: Now this was kind of before most of the crossbows 589 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: seasons were put into effect. UM. Fast forward to now 590 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: and over about the last five years, UM, this number 591 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: has stabilized. But over the last five years bows and 592 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: crossbows take about a quarter of the deer harvest. So 593 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: that climbed a lot when you were seeing a lot 594 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: more crossbow seasons. But it's it's kind of stabilized right there. 595 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: And you're in and year obits about so that is 596 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: not changing over the last few years. So firearms still 597 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: take about two thirds of all the deer. However, what 598 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: is changing is the percentage of that archery harvest that's 599 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: taken by crossbows. And UH, and we took a look 600 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: at hey which states allow you allow the vast majority 601 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: of hunters to use crossbows during the archery season. You know, 602 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: you don't have to be a senior or a youth hunter, 603 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: or have a disability or whatever. UM. Today in the 604 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: vast majority of the country, UH, at least vast majority 605 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: of the eastern two thirds of the country, where where 606 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: most white tails live. Um, almost everybody can use a 607 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: crossbow during archery season, so that's really your own which 608 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: then begs the question, Okay, what impacts are those crossbows have? 609 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: And what we see is they're really not changing the 610 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,479 Speaker 1: overall deer harvest. UM. No state has you know, changed 611 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: their crossbow laws because crossbows are killing too much. Nobody 612 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,479 Speaker 1: has has made those efforts yet. However, the one big 613 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: change we're seeing right now is there are a handful 614 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: of states where now the crossbow harvest exceeds the vertical 615 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: bow harvest. UM, places like your state of Michigan, mine 616 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Virginia, Wisconsin, some of these really big, 617 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: you know, in long term deer hunting states. Now people 618 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: are really taking advantage of crossbows. So it's changing the 619 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: actual archie harvest. Archie harvest the state about the same. 620 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: It's not getting higher, but more of those deer are 621 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: now being taken by crossbow and that's drawn attention from 622 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: a lot of hunters, a particularly a lot of traditional 623 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,719 Speaker 1: bow hunters. So it's not impacting dear levels, it's not 624 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: impacting the any kind of Oh, it's not impacting the herd. 625 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: It's simply impacting how people how hunters are engaging with 626 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: the herd, so how people are doing it. So really 627 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: it comes down to people that would otherwise be killing 628 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: deer with a vertical bow are switching to a horizontal 629 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: horizontal bow crossbow and just utilizing this easier option. Or 630 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: do we think that it's that crossbows are doing one 631 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: of the things that people hypothesized, which is that they 632 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: are allowing new hunters to come into the game in 633 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: a more easy fashion, or keeping long term bow hunters 634 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: in the game longer as they get older. Do we 635 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: have any data or anecdotal evidence that one of those 636 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: two things happening. It's it's we do and and it's 637 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: a little bit of all of those things that you 638 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: just said. Um, there's no doubt that they are bringing 639 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: or allowing uh young hunters to partake any archery season 640 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: at an earlier age, and they would. Um, my kids 641 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: are perfect examples. You know my kids before or my 642 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: son this year when he was ten, and my daughter 643 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: when she was I think nine was her first year 644 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: under ten. You know, world, we're archery hunting with me. 645 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: They both shoot a vertical bow in the background or 646 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: I mean in the backyard with me and love it. 647 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: But you know, neither one of them pull at that 648 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: time anyway anywhere near enough weight you know, to hunt 649 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: with that bow. However, you know, so they would stand 650 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: the backyard and shoot our compound bows. But then we'd 651 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: go hunting. We we got a crossbow, so you know, 652 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: they could start hunting them, and we are seeing that, 653 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: you know, in many states. So the one thing that's 654 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: a little funny with us, though, is that no states 655 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: are being able to show, you know, this big increase 656 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: in hunter numbers because of this directly resulted from being 657 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: able to use crossbows. But there's no doubt that there's 658 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: a lot of young hunters today hunting with a crossbow 659 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: that just simply couldn't like a compound. Um, there's no 660 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: doubt there's a lot of aging hunters. They are able 661 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: to continue to hunt in the archery season because they 662 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: can use crossbows. And it's undeniable that there's a lot 663 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: of new adult hunters trying hunting because they can use 664 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: a cross bow first. And our field defolt programs are 665 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 1: perfect example, you know, where we find adult hunters who 666 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: want to do that. Many of them are particularly many 667 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: of the ladies that get involved are very intimidated by 668 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: shooting a shotgun or a rifle, you know, and just 669 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: have want nothing to do with that at first. However, 670 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: they think a cross like, oh, I can do that, 671 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: you know, I want to get my own food and 672 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: I'll try it with a cross bow. Yeah. So there's 673 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: definitely some some evidence that those are helping, um at 674 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: least some with recruiting hunters and retaining some hunters. So 675 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: there's seemingly no big picture negative impact from them. There's 676 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: seemingly some possible positive impact. Um it comes down to 677 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: a purity issue for some hunters. What do either you 678 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: or the Quality Dear Management Association say to those who 679 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: have concerns still? What's the stance of the organization or 680 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: or you personally? Yeah, Well, I'm I'm a die hard 681 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 1: bow hunter, um you know, I I very serious about 682 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: taking my my compound to the woods. And so I 683 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: get it when when there's other die hard hunters that 684 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: you know, just really despise crossbows, and I know a 685 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,479 Speaker 1: lot of people that do. However, you know, I try 686 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: to look at the big picture and say, even though 687 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 1: I don't choose to hunt with a crossbow, um man, 688 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure. I'm glad that my kids can come hunting 689 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: with it. And you know, I have an older member 690 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,879 Speaker 1: of our deer campus in his eighties now that bow 691 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: hunted his whole life that just simply can't anymore. But 692 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: but he's still crossbow hunts. So man, I'm glad that 693 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: he can come. And you know what I'm so my 694 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: take on it is, Hey, you know, we need hunters 695 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: more than ever before. So if crossbows are not having 696 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: any negative biological impact on deer herds, but they can 697 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: help get more people into the woods. Man, I'm totally 698 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: fine sharing the archery woods, you know, with somebody else 699 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: hoosing a crossbow. Um, I get it. In some states 700 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: where they're buck harvest is you know a lot of 701 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: crossbows are taking a lot more of those books and 702 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: taking them earlier in the year, you know than some 703 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: of the firearm hunters can get too. But man, everybody can. 704 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: You can get a crossbow and go hunt. So I 705 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,240 Speaker 1: can see both sides. But man, I'm told to find sharing. 706 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: What is somebody using a crossbow, you know, God bless 707 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: him for wanting to hunt and and to be out there. Yeah, 708 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: I'd rather have somebody getting into it and learning to 709 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: love this stuff and this resource and maybe someday standing 710 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: up for I'd rather have that person out there doing 711 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 1: that than never getting into it at all because they 712 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: didn't feel comfortable with a compound or a gun. So 713 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: that's right. I agree. I'm with you. So speaking of 714 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: that hunter recruitment UH challenge, which Crossbows we hope is 715 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: are our one small way to help address that. I 716 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: didn't see this addressed addressing the report, But from your 717 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: perspective or from any other things that you've been involved in, 718 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,320 Speaker 1: are looking at where do we stand on that front? 719 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a big article that came out in 720 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: the Washington Post recently talking about declining hunter numbers and 721 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 1: the impacts that's having on conservation funding. It's a thing 722 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,800 Speaker 1: we continue to talk about year after year after year. Um, 723 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 1: just what's your what's your sense of or what's what's 724 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: the pulse on that? Where are we doing anything right? 725 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: Are we still trending in the wrong direction? Do you 726 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: feel like we're making any impact of the programs of 727 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,919 Speaker 1: trying or the all the talk about it. Well? I do, 728 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,959 Speaker 1: and you know it's it's it's undeniable that we're losing 729 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: hunters and then we're losing at an alarming rate. Of 730 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: all the different recruitment programs and retention programs that are 731 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: out there, you know, we have not had a lot 732 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: of success with those, I think mostly because the majority 733 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,240 Speaker 1: of them were focused on youth. And about five years 734 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: ago we started to take we being Q you may 735 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: took a little different look and said, hey, you know, 736 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: like we still do a lot of youth stuff, but hey, 737 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: what if we did something that focused on some more 738 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: adults who may want to go hunting. And that's kind 739 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: of what our Field Default program was born out of. 740 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: And I share that to say that has been the 741 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: one success story that we have seen in the opportunity 742 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: to kind of turn the tide on loss of hunter 743 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,839 Speaker 1: numbers UM. For example, a lot of youth programs, you know, 744 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,440 Speaker 1: the actual impact is pretty minimal um, you know, because 745 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: first of all, the kid can't take himself hunting. They 746 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 1: need somebody to take them. They can't buy a bow 747 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: or a gun, and so if they didn't have opportunity 748 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: to go, then sure, let's take them and show them 749 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: a good time and expose them to it. But you know, 750 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: that's not a big recruitment factor that way. However, with 751 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: an adult, hey, they can get a bow, they can drive, 752 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: they can buy a license. And so where we have 753 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: seen our field of fort programs is about of all 754 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: the people that go through those continue to hunt the 755 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: next year, they buy a license, they buy bows, they 756 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: buy guns, they buy Campbell clothing. So so we I 757 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 1: think around the verge of having something to really change 758 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: that that tide um, we spent the last few years 759 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,439 Speaker 1: kind of developing a model that we know will work 760 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: with regard to mentoring hunters. So we are in the 761 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,959 Speaker 1: process right now of scaling that up and being able 762 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 1: to use it at a much broader scale where it 763 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 1: doesn't just have to be qd M a staff and 764 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: volunteers that can implement these programs, you know, and get 765 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: these people involved, but we can have others who aren't 766 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: even affiliated with us follow these methods that we have 767 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,799 Speaker 1: shown to work very well. That then we can do 768 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,319 Speaker 1: this in communities across the United States. So is it 769 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: gonna work, man? I sure hope so. And I think 770 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: we have a better model than anything that we've had, 771 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, in the last several decades to do this. 772 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 1: So it's just a matter of if we're able to 773 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,720 Speaker 1: pull it off at a scale that really makes a difference. 774 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 1: But but there's no doubt mark that the future is brighter, 775 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: at least for this model than anything else that we 776 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: have seen in a long time. Yeah, I am excited 777 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 1: about that too. I do. I do believe you guys 778 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: have have found something, You've tapped into, something that really 779 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: does have some potential. So excited to hopefully continue helping 780 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: on that front and make that a reality and make 781 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: that scaling possible. Yeah, and you have been involved in 782 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: those so, I mean you see the power of them. 783 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: You know, you have mentored hunters, you know, and that's 784 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: as much as anything is that Historically hunters look at 785 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 1: this as hey, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna be a consumer. 786 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: I am gonna go I'm gonna hopefully shoot something and 787 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: need it. I'm going to use these opportunities. Well, we 788 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,319 Speaker 1: need to change that dinalogue some too, and we need 789 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: to understand that every hunter has to say, you know 790 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: what I am going to do all this. However, it 791 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 1: is my responsibility to then also teach somebody else. And 792 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: I know you do that and you're very good at it. 793 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,359 Speaker 1: And we need to impress upon the mass of hunters. 794 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: You know, hey, this is why it's important. And once 795 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: we convince you it's important, Okay, here are the materials, 796 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: are the way to make it easier for you to 797 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: then go ahead and do this. Yeah. I've just always 798 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: thought that I personally, we all get so much from hunting, 799 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: so many benefits, so many ways that it enriches our lives. 800 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: Um It just I think if you enjoy those benefits, 801 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: it then becomes incumbent upon you to give back, to 802 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: try to pass it on, to try to get back 803 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: to the resource, or to help other people enjoy that resource. 804 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: So it just seems like an obligation, like and not 805 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: even a question, is just something you absolutely should have 806 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: to do. Um So I hope hopefully more and more 807 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,839 Speaker 1: people feel the same way. I want to. I want 808 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: to switch gears a little bit, kip from what is 809 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 1: a little bit of a glimmer of hope on the 810 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: front of this new program that's helping with some hunter recruitment. 811 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: I want to skip to something that's a little less 812 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 1: um positive, which is the whole topic of disease across 813 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: the country. I know this is another area of continuous 814 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: change and evolution. As you guys have been doing the 815 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 1: White Tail Report UM. E h D and c w 816 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: D have both come up various times, either annually or 817 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 1: here and there. As we've talked over the years doing 818 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,880 Speaker 1: these annual check in podcasts, where do things stand right 819 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,879 Speaker 1: now with e h D and c w D. What's 820 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,280 Speaker 1: our status report, UM, and what do you foresee moving 821 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: forward from the e h D And we're continuing to 822 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: see more frequent outbreaks UM. And if folks aren't from 823 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: the h D, is it's a temorrhagic disease, it's you know, 824 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 1: it's a viral disease. That's more most natural diseases of 825 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,359 Speaker 1: deer that's carried by the no SM So these little 826 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,760 Speaker 1: biting midges, that's the disease that's carried during the summer 827 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: that we often see deer end up near water. UM. 828 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: It's very common with deer. UM. What we're seeing is 829 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,839 Speaker 1: an expansion of the severity of those outbreaks. It used 830 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 1: to be just kind of the disease of deer in 831 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: the southeastern US. And you know, those deer who are 832 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: exposed to it every year, they can develop antibodies against it, 833 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: so you didn't see these big die offs. What we're 834 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,320 Speaker 1: seeing now is you know, it's not a disease of 835 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: the southeast anymore at all. You know, it's all the 836 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,360 Speaker 1: way up into Canada, it's all the way across the country, 837 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: you know, through Montana um, so a lot more deer 838 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: hurts being exposed. You know, we are seeing more severe 839 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,840 Speaker 1: die offs on a more regular basis, So definitely bigger 840 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: impacts in the past. Now the good thing is, you 841 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: know if deer some deer surviving, that doesn't kill everybody, 842 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 1: and even some that get it survived and then they 843 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: are more resistant to it in the future. So the 844 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 1: overall impact, Yeah, we lose a bunch of deer in 845 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 1: some areas, but they recover very quickly. There's no long 846 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 1: term effects, and then you just kind of go on 847 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 1: with it. That's very different from from c w D, 848 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,759 Speaker 1: where it's a fatal to all deer. You know, they 849 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 1: don't recover from it and once it's there. The bad 850 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,800 Speaker 1: thing about CWD is it takes a while to infect 851 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 1: enough deer and a deer herd to start seeing population 852 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: level declines. So like hemorrho DGCSE where people find oh 853 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,399 Speaker 1: god dear, got it now, they're dead a week later. 854 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,840 Speaker 1: I can see that I understand this is bad. C 855 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:33,840 Speaker 1: w D doesn't work that way. It's kind of like 856 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 1: the slow killer. So many hunters just don't realize the 857 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: severity of it. But big picture, c w D is 858 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 1: way worse for deer herds and the future of hunting 859 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: than hemorrhagic disease. You know, It's like scales worse. So 860 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: what's the latest update on CWD? Then, I know that 861 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,439 Speaker 1: we continue to hear in new reports trickle out week 862 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: after week after week, year after year after year. What 863 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,719 Speaker 1: are the headlines of CWD this year? Well, Um, it 864 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: continues to to expand. It's now in twenty states, so 865 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,960 Speaker 1: it's in over half of the US several foreign countries 866 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,640 Speaker 1: as well, but we see continued expansion of it new 867 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,280 Speaker 1: states as well as areas within states that already had it. Um, 868 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,279 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of you know, doom and gloom 869 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,799 Speaker 1: over c w D in the past because we had 870 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: so few success stories. But you know what, even though 871 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: it is continuing to spread, for the first time, we 872 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 1: are starting to have up some research help us out 873 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 1: with some some positive things. For example, this past year, 874 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,960 Speaker 1: for the first time ever, now we know, hey, we 875 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:42,959 Speaker 1: can finally decontaminate or clean knives, saws and other things 876 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,040 Speaker 1: that we processed here with, you know, so we know 877 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,440 Speaker 1: how to get rid of the prens off the stainless 878 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 1: steel and uh, it's pretty cool. It's as simple as 879 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:54,280 Speaker 1: a as a bleach bath. Basically can't decontaminate a carcass 880 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,719 Speaker 1: or the environment yet, but at least we have a 881 00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,840 Speaker 1: step in how to beat this on our equipment that 882 00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 1: we use knives and stuff to feel, dress and cut 883 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 1: up deer. So that's a good thing. Um, we know 884 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,840 Speaker 1: for the first time, possibly through some some soil properties, 885 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: it's human acid properties, where hey, we know something in 886 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: the environment that now may help us in this fight 887 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:19,279 Speaker 1: against CWD. So it's they're small steps, but man, it's 888 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,880 Speaker 1: nice to have something positive for the first time in 889 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,480 Speaker 1: this fight because as this continues to spread and impact 890 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: more deer herds, more hunters. Um, you know, we need 891 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,000 Speaker 1: some good news and every little advantage that we have 892 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: gets us a little bit closer to being able to 893 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,280 Speaker 1: do something to stop this disease. Yeah, could you expand 894 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,040 Speaker 1: on the soil uh topic, with that research has shown, 895 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,320 Speaker 1: is that something you feel comfortable expanding on. Sure, there's 896 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,880 Speaker 1: been some research and we know Once cwds in an 897 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 1: area in the environment, um, the prions stay in the 898 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,240 Speaker 1: ground and can it affect other deer. So for example, 899 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 1: if the deer has CWD positive and it urinates or 900 00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: defecates in the ground, um, other deer coming can tech 901 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,279 Speaker 1: with that and then they can contract the disease. This 902 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 1: is why when you get it the disease, you know 903 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,279 Speaker 1: you can the outlaw a baiting, the outlaw feeding the 904 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,279 Speaker 1: outlaw mineral licks because they don't want deer swamping, you know, 905 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 1: spit or eating where another deer urinator defecated because they 906 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 1: can contract the disease. Well, we also know that wherever 907 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,360 Speaker 1: that imprions are on the ground, there are certain plants 908 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,920 Speaker 1: growing there that can actually uptake those preons up through 909 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:27,920 Speaker 1: the plant and have them in their leaves. So if 910 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: another animal comes to each those leaves, you know there 911 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:32,960 Speaker 1: is a chance that that deer can contract the disease 912 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 1: from that. So, man, this is in the environment. We 913 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,160 Speaker 1: can't decontaminate environment. You know this, this is a bad deal. Well, 914 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,040 Speaker 1: now researchers have seen with this humic acid or some 915 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,160 Speaker 1: of these different soil properties. Hey, you know what, maybe 916 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,560 Speaker 1: now there's something that just is a natural word to 917 00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 1: these preons. So they don't understand exactly how to use 918 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: that to our benefits yet, but it's way different than 919 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 1: everything else we have seen in the environment where certain 920 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,759 Speaker 1: proud or certain soils like clay soils especially, tend to 921 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:08,439 Speaker 1: bind these prions more tightly and can you know potentially 922 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 1: in fact dear at a higher rate in those type 923 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,000 Speaker 1: of soils. Well, now, the humic acid, there's something about 924 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:18,000 Speaker 1: these soils that make the way less susceptible, make dear 925 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 1: way less susceptible to this disease. So even though they 926 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,240 Speaker 1: don't understand the entire connection yet, we have identified something 927 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,600 Speaker 1: that may help us in this battle against c w D. 928 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,160 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of pieces that still have to 929 00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,400 Speaker 1: be put together, but at least it's a step in 930 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,480 Speaker 1: the right direction, because you know, there's there's nothing that 931 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,320 Speaker 1: we know of until very recently that we could could 932 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 1: decontaminate any area where the disease was so, you know, so, 933 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: but it's the more we understand about how to do that, 934 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: then the better job we can do at limiting spread 935 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,879 Speaker 1: of these preons and trying to get rid of them 936 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 1: once they are there. So, um, every little bit helps 937 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,120 Speaker 1: for sure, even if we don't have all the pieces 938 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 1: put together. Yeah, at least that is a very positive step. Yeah, 939 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,640 Speaker 1: you don't think that sending fire trucks full of bleach 940 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,359 Speaker 1: to sprawl over the county, isn't That isn't a really 941 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:10,000 Speaker 1: good a solution. Not. Yeah. Yeah, And it's funny because 942 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,040 Speaker 1: when they came out with the research about using bleach 943 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,760 Speaker 1: to clean the knives, you know, they have big letters 944 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 1: and make it very cular. Hey, this does not work 945 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,439 Speaker 1: on tissue. Don't put up because you know, the first 946 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,279 Speaker 1: time somebody reads that and say, hey, well if it 947 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,799 Speaker 1: cleans my life, what if I just soaked his backstrap? 948 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,080 Speaker 1: So um so yeah. So no, it does not doesn't 949 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,200 Speaker 1: get into tissue at all. It's only on stainless steel. 950 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,480 Speaker 1: So if your deer is not made a stainless steel, 951 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,000 Speaker 1: don't try to clean that with the bleach. And I 952 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: hope you're not shooting any stainless steel deer. That's right, 953 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:43,200 Speaker 1: Speaking of trying to battle CWD. Though you did allude 954 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:47,040 Speaker 1: earlier to uh, this whole topic of antlerless harvest and 955 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,880 Speaker 1: the importance of focusing on does when it comes to 956 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 1: managing c w D. There's a lot of talk about 957 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,160 Speaker 1: the importance of buck harvest when trying to contain CWD 958 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,040 Speaker 1: because bucks tend to disperse more um. But I know 959 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,400 Speaker 1: you wrote an article and you've been trying to make 960 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,560 Speaker 1: sure people understand that you can't forget about does. Can 961 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,879 Speaker 1: you talk about that a little bit? Sure? So much 962 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,799 Speaker 1: of the fight against c W d UM focuses on 963 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,840 Speaker 1: killing bucks, and the reason for that is because bucks 964 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,680 Speaker 1: carry the disease at a higher rate than does And 965 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,360 Speaker 1: then there's some great data from from multiple states that 966 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,600 Speaker 1: show that, you know, adult bucks are about twice as 967 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,719 Speaker 1: likely to have it as adult does. Yearling box are 968 00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,319 Speaker 1: more likely to have it than yearling does. So a 969 00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,279 Speaker 1: lot of the effort has been a hey, man, don't 970 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,239 Speaker 1: let these bucks get old. We gotta kill them, you know, 971 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:36,320 Speaker 1: before they take this disease, you know, and it infect everybody. Well. 972 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,920 Speaker 1: In doing that, a lot of the educational campaigns by 973 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,719 Speaker 1: agencies and and even a lot of deer managers get 974 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,359 Speaker 1: so focused on the buck side that I think that, 975 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,759 Speaker 1: you know, they're going to lose the war. And what 976 00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,680 Speaker 1: I mean by that is there's four big reasons and 977 00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,959 Speaker 1: this is what I wrote about to not forget about 978 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,480 Speaker 1: the dose. One is that some some great research out 979 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,480 Speaker 1: of Wisconsin show that just because of the social order 980 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,000 Speaker 1: of deer, bucks tend to be a lot more loaners 981 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,360 Speaker 1: where dose you know, they just live in these family groups. 982 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:09,239 Speaker 1: So if a dough had a relative nearby that was 983 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:13,279 Speaker 1: CWD positive, that dough was ten times more likely to 984 00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,840 Speaker 1: have the disease. So what that means is these family groups, 985 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,120 Speaker 1: as soon as one of them hits the disease, you know, 986 00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,759 Speaker 1: everybody else in that group is much more likely to 987 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,480 Speaker 1: get it. Once they get it, they then become these 988 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,319 Speaker 1: reservoirs of the disease and the environment that we can't 989 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,279 Speaker 1: we can't decontamine it, we can't get rid of it. 990 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,920 Speaker 1: So we need to absolutely minimize the opportunity for this happening, 991 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,600 Speaker 1: and that happens by shooting antalist deer and keeping deer 992 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,360 Speaker 1: herds and balance with the habitat. So that's one. The 993 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,719 Speaker 1: second thing is part of the reason that some agencies 994 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,120 Speaker 1: focus effort on young bucks or say hey, we need 995 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,000 Speaker 1: to take off these anil and restrictions to kill these 996 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,279 Speaker 1: yelling bucks. It's because these yearing bucks disperse, and there's 997 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:56,000 Speaker 1: lots of research that shows that when bucks are twelve 998 00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,759 Speaker 1: to eighteen months old, half to three quarters of them 999 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,840 Speaker 1: are going to disperse from where they were born and 1000 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:02,759 Speaker 1: set up their own home range. And then they tend 1001 00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,440 Speaker 1: to do this one to five miles away. So some 1002 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 1: upset it's holy cows, they're gonna sco they might take 1003 00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,600 Speaker 1: the disease with them and introducing into a new area. 1004 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,759 Speaker 1: Let's kill them. And and there's certainly some warrant to 1005 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,120 Speaker 1: that that when they disperse, they can go as a disease. 1006 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,760 Speaker 1: But by focusing all that after on those young bucks, 1007 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,680 Speaker 1: we end up then killing fewer Anilois deer. Well, some 1008 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 1: very brand new research out of Minnesota and Southeast Minnesota 1009 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,560 Speaker 1: specifically is following young bucks and young doughs, and what 1010 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,920 Speaker 1: they're finding is their young bucks are dispersing at about 1011 00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,480 Speaker 1: exactly the same rate as that all the other studies show, 1012 00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,000 Speaker 1: but their dos are dispersing at about the exact same rate. 1013 00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,839 Speaker 1: So while half the three quarters of the young bucks 1014 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,040 Speaker 1: are leaving, half to the three quarters of the young 1015 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,480 Speaker 1: does are too. They're dispersing, and they're dispersing almost as far. 1016 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,520 Speaker 1: So there's a you know, opportunity for them to spread 1017 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,239 Speaker 1: this disease too. So we can't focus too much of 1018 00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 1: the effort just on those young bucks. We need to 1019 00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,480 Speaker 1: be focusing it on the doors as well, or our 1020 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,759 Speaker 1: efforts are lost. The third thing is, and I think 1021 00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,640 Speaker 1: this is one of the biggest things Mark I've fully 1022 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 1: have seen that they did understand that adult box are 1023 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,800 Speaker 1: about twice as likely to have the disease as adult does. However, 1024 00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,920 Speaker 1: what people forget about is take any place in the country, 1025 00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,480 Speaker 1: or just about any place in the country, certainly any 1026 00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:22,600 Speaker 1: place outside of South Texas, any given deer herd has 1027 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,040 Speaker 1: way more than two adult does for every adult buck. 1028 00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,960 Speaker 1: So take where you are. Okay, maybe you're doing a 1029 00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,719 Speaker 1: good job managing and you've got you know, one or 1030 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,319 Speaker 1: two five year old bucks on the property. I will 1031 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,359 Speaker 1: promise you have more two or four or five year 1032 00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,640 Speaker 1: old does. So what happens is, even though those bucks 1033 00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,279 Speaker 1: are voices likely had a disease. You know, every deer 1034 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,680 Speaker 1: heard that we see has more than twice as many 1035 00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,359 Speaker 1: adult dose as adult box So even though they are 1036 00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,720 Speaker 1: less likely to have the disease, just by sheer numbers 1037 00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:56,839 Speaker 1: of those does on the landscape, there will always be 1038 00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: more CWD positive does then c w D positive bucks 1039 00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,880 Speaker 1: out there. So if we're going to manage this disease, 1040 00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,040 Speaker 1: we have got to be killing those doughs. And you 1041 00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,560 Speaker 1: and I talked about it earlier, where less than half 1042 00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,839 Speaker 1: of the hunters kill a deer only kill more than 1043 00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,920 Speaker 1: one deer. Take Michigan. You can kill two bucks in Michigan. 1044 00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:20,000 Speaker 1: So what happens is so many of these people end 1045 00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:23,120 Speaker 1: up shooting a buck or shoot two bucks where and 1046 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:24,960 Speaker 1: then they don't shoot those doughs. You know, they're not 1047 00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,560 Speaker 1: sharing that meat with others. And so we are absolutely 1048 00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,759 Speaker 1: going the wrong way. And that's why I've told people, Hey, 1049 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:32,919 Speaker 1: if you focus all of your effort on young bucks 1050 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,040 Speaker 1: or on bucks in general, um, hey, that's the wrong 1051 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,319 Speaker 1: way to do. You can win this buck battle, which 1052 00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:42,000 Speaker 1: you're gonna lose the disease war. You absolutely are. So 1053 00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,600 Speaker 1: do we need to shoot box? We certainly do, But 1054 00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,680 Speaker 1: we need to be focused on even more effort on 1055 00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,080 Speaker 1: the antle the side. And this is especially true once 1056 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,000 Speaker 1: you're in the CWD zone. Yeah, great and great point. 1057 00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,360 Speaker 1: Has there been any I know, I think if I 1058 00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:02,200 Speaker 1: remember right, Minnesota was kind of updated their plan for 1059 00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:07,640 Speaker 1: CWD recently. Is there anything new or innovative or useful 1060 00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,160 Speaker 1: that we've learned over the last year as far as 1061 00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,320 Speaker 1: management strategies, because this is always the controversial thing. Hunters 1062 00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,000 Speaker 1: are always up in arms about how a state decides 1063 00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,560 Speaker 1: to manage CWD once it arrives. Um, is there anything 1064 00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:23,640 Speaker 1: new on that front or that's being tried? Uh? I 1065 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,600 Speaker 1: think last year we talked about this a little bit 1066 00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,160 Speaker 1: and you were encouraged with with one state. I honestly 1067 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,560 Speaker 1: can't remember which it was now, but I don't know 1068 00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,000 Speaker 1: anything new on that front, or we're just kind of 1069 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:35,560 Speaker 1: doing the same old, same old. Well, the folks are 1070 00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,080 Speaker 1: definitely looking as some new things, and partly because they're 1071 00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:40,680 Speaker 1: starting to understand, you know, this need to to get 1072 00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,600 Speaker 1: more effort on the dough side. UM. Pennsylvania is actually 1073 00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,120 Speaker 1: probably the best example right now because they are going 1074 00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:50,960 Speaker 1: through an update of their CWD plan and they have 1075 00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:54,200 Speaker 1: taken a stance which I think is exactly right. They 1076 00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,200 Speaker 1: have gone out to the hunters and their disease zones 1077 00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,880 Speaker 1: and have admitted right in front, hey, we can't do 1078 00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:03,359 Speaker 1: this without you. We need your help. We want you 1079 00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,319 Speaker 1: to be the saviors and all of this and help 1080 00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,799 Speaker 1: us battle this disease, and we want you to do 1081 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,080 Speaker 1: this by shooting you know x number of antle list dear. 1082 00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,880 Speaker 1: You know we need to increase the antlest side. So 1083 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,560 Speaker 1: here's the deal. We are very We know that we 1084 00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,040 Speaker 1: can come in with targeted removal after the season with 1085 00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,360 Speaker 1: sharp shooters, you know, and shoot these extra deer um. 1086 00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,960 Speaker 1: You don't want us to do this. We don't want 1087 00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,720 Speaker 1: to have to do that. We would much rather work 1088 00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,520 Speaker 1: with you during the hunting season and have you shoot 1089 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,279 Speaker 1: more antalyst deer than you have in the past. You're 1090 00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,839 Speaker 1: still going to have very honorable populations to do when 1091 00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:38,439 Speaker 1: we're done. We're not asking you to go to zero 1092 00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,600 Speaker 1: with the deer, but we do need you to shoot more, dear. 1093 00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,520 Speaker 1: Here's why. And they're doing a great job education sharing 1094 00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:48,680 Speaker 1: this information. And if you can hit these harvest rates 1095 00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:50,719 Speaker 1: that we need kind of similar to some of the 1096 00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:52,759 Speaker 1: stuff that's going on in Michigan and that disease of 1097 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,920 Speaker 1: research area. If you can hit these harvest totals of 1098 00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,400 Speaker 1: ant list, dear, then there will be no targeted removal postseason. 1099 00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:01,600 Speaker 1: You know. If you don't hit them, then you know, 1100 00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna be forced to come in and do this, 1101 00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,400 Speaker 1: But please, we want to do this with you first. 1102 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,920 Speaker 1: So my take on it is is it is the 1103 00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:11,760 Speaker 1: first time in an agency like that has really reached 1104 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,560 Speaker 1: out and truly try to be a good partner for 1105 00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,040 Speaker 1: the hunters and let them know right up front, you 1106 00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,799 Speaker 1: guys are the ones, guys and gals that will make 1107 00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,880 Speaker 1: or break this program. You know, we need you, we 1108 00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,319 Speaker 1: know we can't do it without you. And just that 1109 00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,399 Speaker 1: reaching you know, and trying to develop that relationship, man, 1110 00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,839 Speaker 1: that goes a long way to getting support from not 1111 00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,759 Speaker 1: all of the landowners and hunters but sure, but from 1112 00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,719 Speaker 1: a lot of them. So I think that is the 1113 00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,880 Speaker 1: ticket to solve on this issue moving forward, stronger relationships 1114 00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:47,160 Speaker 1: because hunters are absolutely needed and if they understand how 1115 00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,600 Speaker 1: they can help, they are more likely to help. So 1116 00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,960 Speaker 1: education is the key to that big you know, strong 1117 00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:57,360 Speaker 1: educational campaigns. So anyway, I think that's a pretty exciting 1118 00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,600 Speaker 1: thing and I'm excited to see where it goes here. 1119 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,319 Speaker 1: I think that makes a lot of sense. So so 1120 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:08,120 Speaker 1: speaking of other important ways that hunters can partner with 1121 00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:13,000 Speaker 1: with whether it be managing agencies or legislators that are 1122 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:17,240 Speaker 1: in some ways impacting the population or the resource. Um, 1123 00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,320 Speaker 1: I know, there's a number of different things that you 1124 00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,680 Speaker 1: do and the conservation side of QT may works on 1125 00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:26,040 Speaker 1: as far as policies, as far as pushing various proposals, 1126 00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:30,520 Speaker 1: are supporting various things that are they're ongoing in different states. UM, 1127 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:35,320 Speaker 1: I'm curious what some of the major things things is 1128 00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:37,840 Speaker 1: the wrong word I'm blanking on the right word here, Um, 1129 00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:41,160 Speaker 1: but some of the various proposals or pieces of legislation 1130 00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,919 Speaker 1: or or anything ongoing across the country that you think 1131 00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,919 Speaker 1: that hunters need to know about and put our support behind. Um. 1132 00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:52,520 Speaker 1: You know, I know there's this uh Pittman Robertson Modernization 1133 00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:54,400 Speaker 1: Act that's out there. I'm curious if that's something we 1134 00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,000 Speaker 1: should be paying more attention to. I know there's been 1135 00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,960 Speaker 1: a proposal put out there to protect boundary waters, which 1136 00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,919 Speaker 1: I know you guys have lent your support to, which 1137 00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,880 Speaker 1: I think is awesome. UM. Are those things that we 1138 00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,120 Speaker 1: should be talking more about? Is there anything else in 1139 00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:11,680 Speaker 1: your radar that we need to kind of rally around? What? 1140 00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:14,360 Speaker 1: What do we need to know about? What you just mentioned? 1141 00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,280 Speaker 1: Both of those are great and and good for all 1142 00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,400 Speaker 1: sportsmen and women. UM. The one big thing right now 1143 00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:22,880 Speaker 1: that we really could use support for that is going 1144 00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:26,160 Speaker 1: to benefit all hunters is there's a fair number of 1145 00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,240 Speaker 1: federal bills out there right now that are looking at 1146 00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:34,560 Speaker 1: increasing federal funding for CWD research and management and U. 1147 00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:36,880 Speaker 1: Back when you know, the early two thousands, there was 1148 00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,640 Speaker 1: close to twenty million and federal dollars that the state 1149 00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:42,600 Speaker 1: agency has got to manage c w D to sample 1150 00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,080 Speaker 1: and all that well, all that money is gone. It 1151 00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:47,280 Speaker 1: was as soon as they figured out the CWD likely 1152 00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,280 Speaker 1: couldn't impact humans, all that money dried up. So all 1153 00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,120 Speaker 1: of the sampling that's done today and surveillance and monitoring, 1154 00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:55,360 Speaker 1: the vast majority that's coming right out of the state 1155 00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,000 Speaker 1: agency budgets. And man, wouldn't it be better if our 1156 00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,640 Speaker 1: states could use that for things like hunter access and 1157 00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:05,400 Speaker 1: habitat enhancement and UM, So there's a we are pushing 1158 00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,440 Speaker 1: hard with some of these federal legislators to get this 1159 00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,080 Speaker 1: federal funding which would allow agencies to then use more 1160 00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:14,480 Speaker 1: of their own budgets on cool things like habitat enhancement 1161 00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,920 Speaker 1: in that so that is the one thing that hunters 1162 00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,160 Speaker 1: can get behind. UM it was a great push last 1163 00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,360 Speaker 1: year and we thought we were going to get about 1164 00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,560 Speaker 1: fifteen million in federal funding for the states. UM it 1165 00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:28,560 Speaker 1: didn't end up happening. That will be reintroducing again this year, 1166 00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:33,000 Speaker 1: and that probably probably arguably is the single most important 1167 00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,840 Speaker 1: bill like that the hunters can get behind to really 1168 00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,280 Speaker 1: make a difference with what we have both now to 1169 00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,400 Speaker 1: hunt deer and in the future. Okay, well, when that 1170 00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:44,680 Speaker 1: gets reintroduced, I will definitely be railing the troops to 1171 00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,760 Speaker 1: get behind that again. I know that that research money 1172 00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:52,240 Speaker 1: and just knowledge. We're just lacking so much information still 1173 00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,760 Speaker 1: and it seems like the only way to the only 1174 00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,320 Speaker 1: way to get that is to get money behind it, 1175 00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,880 Speaker 1: get the research going, and um cross their fingers and 1176 01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:06,120 Speaker 1: toes that's right. Outside of legislation. One thing, the best 1177 01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,320 Speaker 1: thing that hunters can do, though, is take somebody else hunting, 1178 01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:11,400 Speaker 1: expose somebody new, take them, introduce them to the sport. 1179 01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,480 Speaker 1: That's cheap, that's easy. We all can do that. So, uh, 1180 01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,640 Speaker 1: I challenge everybody this year to to get somebody and 1181 01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,040 Speaker 1: expose them, you know, at least once to the woods 1182 01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:23,800 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, hopefully multiple times. So as a 1183 01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:26,720 Speaker 1: great place to leave us off here today, lots of 1184 01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,760 Speaker 1: great information, Kip, I appreciate you sharing it with us 1185 01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:31,880 Speaker 1: today and taking all the time to put together report 1186 01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:34,280 Speaker 1: for people that want to see this whole thing, the 1187 01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,200 Speaker 1: whole report and get all there's a lot more that 1188 01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,160 Speaker 1: we didn't cover. Where can they find that? They can 1189 01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:42,040 Speaker 1: go right to q DMA dot com. Um, we have 1190 01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:44,120 Speaker 1: all of our way to reports on the website is 1191 01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:46,920 Speaker 1: free downloads, so they can go and grab it and 1192 01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:49,680 Speaker 1: have a blast searching through and seeing how they stay 1193 01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:53,040 Speaker 1: compares to others. Very good stuff, Kip, Thank you for 1194 01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,920 Speaker 1: your time, absolutely Mark, thank you. Awesome job with the 1195 01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,880 Speaker 1: back forward and everything you do for conservation and man 1196 01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,280 Speaker 1: can't wait to read your book. Thank you. I appreciate 1197 01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,600 Speaker 1: it and that is going to do it. Thank you 1198 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,960 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Appreciate you listening. Lots of 1199 01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:12,360 Speaker 1: cool stuff coming up. We're kind of retooling, figuring out 1200 01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:14,800 Speaker 1: what the plan is going to be for new ideas, 1201 01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:18,280 Speaker 1: new projects, new hunts, new stories, new guests. Lots of 1202 01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:21,680 Speaker 1: cool stuff on the way, So stick around and until 1203 01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:25,600 Speaker 1: next time, stay wired to Hunts.