Speaker 1: Warning. Today's episode contained spoilers for House of the Dragon,
Speaker 1: episode four of season three of How's the Dragon Be Worn? Hello,
Speaker 1: my name is Jason Concepcion and on Meersday Night, and
Speaker 1: welcome back to etre vision of the podcast where we
Speaker 1: dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comicscept pop culture
Speaker 1: company from my Heart podcast where we're bringing you three
Speaker 1: episodes a week plus news.
Speaker 2: In today's episode, guys, it is a villain entrance episode
Speaker 2: like you maybe have never seen.
Speaker 3: I don't know. This is like top tier Game of Thrones.
Speaker 2: You might think at the beginning you're tying up a
Speaker 2: lot of loose ends, you're just kind of catching up
Speaker 2: with people. No, this is all about one man and
Speaker 2: we're gonna meet him and you're gonna understand what this
Speaker 2: season is really about and what the true conflict that
Speaker 2: is kind of rearing his head is in a really fun,
Speaker 2: over the top way with some great performances. Yes, I
Speaker 2: love this episode, Jason, Let's get into it.
Speaker 1: We open on Tumbleton, a pleasant market town, kind of
Speaker 1: nondescript village in WESTUS. High Tower Troops Ormond High Tower
Speaker 1: Troops which invaded the city offscreen last episode, are now
Speaker 1: hardening the city against the potential attack from the nearest troops.
Speaker 1: They're going door to door, they're taking people's supplies, whatever
Speaker 1: they need. Lord and Lady Footley, who are the governors,
Speaker 1: the rulers of this city. They protest to Ormond High
Speaker 1: Tower about all of this. You know, you're taking over
Speaker 1: our house. We don't have anything to do with this war.
Speaker 1: We are not warlike people. We're just doing We trade
Speaker 1: and we have market days, and this is all very
Speaker 1: foreign to us. What are you doing. Ormond is like, well,
Speaker 1: you you went for Rania, the usurper queen, and therefore
Speaker 1: this is what you get. And Lady Footley is like, well,
Speaker 1: Lady Footley, I think rightly points out that, well, you know,
Speaker 1: she is the rightful ruler. Ormond then shows off his
Speaker 1: dick and says listen, literally like throws his dick on
Speaker 1: the table. He's yeah, we're gonna stay here, but we're
Speaker 1: going to make sure. I will make sure personally that
Speaker 1: our men stay on their best behavior. And this is
Speaker 1: our first hint that I think Ormond is a different
Speaker 1: you mentioned it. It's a great villain entrance, but he's
Speaker 1: a kind of he's a different sort of villain and
Speaker 1: that he's got he's got a lot of taste. He
Speaker 1: considers himself a refined gentleman, and as we will see
Speaker 1: over the course of this episode, he also has like
Speaker 1: an almost the modern politicians understanding of public relations of
Speaker 1: doing something because the people would like Jason, but you
Speaker 1: don't necessarily need to follow all the way through with
Speaker 1: it that you show a public face and then you
Speaker 1: show a private face. I am is a so very
Speaker 1: subtle thing.
Speaker 2: Glad that you pointed this out, because I think that
Speaker 2: the most incredible smart thing they have done with Ormond
Speaker 2: this episode and with where we find Ranera. Something that
Speaker 2: Raniera showed in her reaction to call this last week,
Speaker 2: and I have to say, I'm so glad how many
Speaker 2: people were on Rehnera's side.
Speaker 3: A lot more people were more generous to her. They
Speaker 3: were like, call us calm down.
Speaker 2: You didn't want to legitimize them till today, and now
Speaker 2: you're asking Venera to like you have a bit of patience, right,
Speaker 2: That's quite a nice point.
Speaker 3: I like the people brought that up.
Speaker 2: It's a it's very tough, but I to thing, let's
Speaker 2: be real when it comes to pr when it comes
Speaker 2: to marketing. When it comes to being the queen that
Speaker 2: people want to support, She's not good at that. She's
Speaker 2: not good at me those decisions in the moment that
Speaker 2: will make people like her. She does not have the
Speaker 2: political mindset. She does not have the crisis pr mindset.
Speaker 2: Ormond High Tower is a crisis pr man, and I
Speaker 2: fucking love that you clock that, Like there is a
Speaker 2: modernity and a contemporary eye to the way that he
Speaker 2: understands how he has to be seen. And that is
Speaker 2: also really fun as essentially like a red herring for
Speaker 2: the audience, because he will make choices that we get
Speaker 2: into as the episode goes on that makes you think
Speaker 2: he is a righteous man, that he at least has
Speaker 2: some kind of moral compass, but as you will learn,
Speaker 2: it's all about playing to what the audience that he
Speaker 2: is kind of in front of needs, and it is
Speaker 2: so fucking cool.
Speaker 3: And then when you really.
Speaker 2: Get to see who he is by the end of
Speaker 2: this episode, you feel like you're getting to see a
Speaker 2: top tier Game of Thrones antagonist being introduced, which is
Speaker 2: such a fun feeling because so many of the characters
Speaker 2: who are antagonists in the show, the ones we've known
Speaker 2: from the beginning, right, It's rare to get a new
Speaker 2: outside who has agendas and missions and wishes all of
Speaker 2: his own that we have no idea about.
Speaker 1: We meet the real Darron. He's the brown hair. He
Speaker 1: seems like a very sweet guy. A raven from storms
Speaker 1: End arrives and Ormond learns that at least one other
Speaker 1: great house, the Barrathians of storms End. Boris Barrathian is
Speaker 1: staying on the sidelines for now because it's, you know,
Speaker 1: unclear who's winning, so why get involved. No word from
Speaker 1: heron Hall and Aimond. Of course they need Vagar or
Speaker 1: the town really can't be defended because they have no
Speaker 1: times of their own. Rania, at a small council meeting, asks.
Speaker 2: The world's smallest council, by the way, like it's the
Speaker 2: mini council meeting.
Speaker 1: Mini council. She's asking her council, like, why why does
Speaker 1: Ormond want Tumbleton? Is that there's nothing to it. It's
Speaker 1: not strategically important, it's not particularly defendable, you know, what's
Speaker 1: what's the deal? And they she figures out kind of
Speaker 1: on her own that because Tumbleton went for her in
Speaker 1: this civil war, Ormond is essentially daring her to rain
Speaker 1: fire on her own supporters, thus turning her supporters against
Speaker 1: her and at least and surely making other cities, villages, towns,
Speaker 1: noble people, noble families wary of joining up if this
Speaker 1: is what they would get for supporting Rania is just
Speaker 1: her dragons just burning them down. She also other decisions
Speaker 1: made at this small council are or while gets to
Speaker 1: stay on, he's done a good job, and what did
Speaker 1: he do?
Speaker 2: Because he has a great pitch for that is essentially why, right,
Speaker 2: like what should you do? So that Ormond's pr to
Speaker 2: make her look like a crazy tagarian who would burn
Speaker 2: her own supports alwayests like something else, and that's kind
Speaker 2: of when she knows, Wait, this guy might actually have
Speaker 2: some good ideas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like, well, why don't you just, you know,
Speaker 1: send the army over there and then you kind of
Speaker 1: discriminately send the army in. They'd fight house to house,
Speaker 1: but you're not just like burning everybody, And she sounds
Speaker 1: like a good idea. After all, the Riverman host that
Speaker 1: was that Damon had been a part of, but now
Speaker 1: it's you know, Oscar Tully and the winter Wolves is
Speaker 1: still rampaging around in the Riverlands just send them over
Speaker 1: to Tumbleton and have to take care of it. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Missaria the white Worm, who is a short term thinker period, dude.
Speaker 2: I mean, I love her, but I feel like she
Speaker 2: is not coming up with enough. You've got to diversify, babe.
Speaker 2: You got to You gotta make it seem like you
Speaker 2: don't only have one short time agenda. You gotta be
Speaker 2: thinking in the long term. And then you slyly got
Speaker 2: to be like give them some food. You can't just
Speaker 2: be like give the poor people food all the time.
Speaker 1: So the economic you know, situation is still very dire
Speaker 1: in the Capitol. There is no gold, food supplies are
Speaker 1: running low, and the streets are roiling, and verniers like,
Speaker 1: what can we do? What can we do? We need money,
Speaker 1: we need food, what can we do? And Misaria comes
Speaker 1: up with a plan to name a master of coin,
Speaker 1: who can take who can take the blame? This is
Speaker 1: like they could just pin the economic collapse on this person.
Speaker 1: And it's like literally the most short term thinking thing ever,
Speaker 1: Like it's it's a funny I will gladly pay you
Speaker 1: Tuesday for a Hamburger today type situation Like this does
Speaker 1: not do anything.
Speaker 2: Guy, literally just told me said that to me today
Speaker 2: bringing up that phrasing.
Speaker 3: It's so so true, Jason.
Speaker 2: And the other funny thing about it as well, is
Speaker 2: I love that Raniera's instant thing is like Torren.
Speaker 3: Mandally, She's like, Yeah, I'd love to be.
Speaker 1: Yes thereat dinner guy. He's very interesting, he seemed very confident.
Speaker 1: Let's pin it on him. Choice to Raniera's discredit, she
Speaker 1: agrees to this plan. Uh and and and pitches Torn
Speaker 1: Mandally as the guy and so sorry and tells Masaria like,
Speaker 1: I need you to check on him, make sure he's
Speaker 1: not one's dirty greens, and then let's pin this whole
Speaker 1: fucking disaster on him.
Speaker 2: I just gotta say, Jason, what was that thing if
Speaker 2: you fly on the wall, if you're there right?
Speaker 3: We were as we watched it on the TV show, Like,
Speaker 3: in what world was there about that interaction at all?
Speaker 2: Anything that made you feel like you should put that
Speaker 2: man in charge or even let him into your space.
Speaker 3: He basically said, I fucking clocked you. I clocked your plan.
Speaker 2: I think it's a smart plan, and I just I
Speaker 2: think that putting him in charge of anything and giving
Speaker 2: him any kind of access is a big mistake. There
Speaker 2: was nothing in that interaction that would have made me
Speaker 2: make this choice. Do you think Raniera saw something that
Speaker 2: wasn't there or you think she's just so overwhelmed that
Speaker 2: she's making short term choices based on massari As.
Speaker 1: I think it's a yeah, I think it's a short
Speaker 1: term choice. I think it's a name. I think it's
Speaker 1: a person who has come to her attention recently. I
Speaker 1: think there's so many things happening right now and so
Speaker 1: many different forces buffeting her that it's just legitimately recency bias.
Speaker 1: Like here's this guy, I talked to him. You know,
Speaker 1: now you could make an you can make an argument that, okay,
Speaker 1: the Manderly is one of the wealthiest, if not the
Speaker 1: wealthiest family in the North. Maybe, you know, like as
Speaker 1: part of the deal, like you tap your wealth the
Speaker 1: way that Taiwan Lanister's wealth. That's what I was going
Speaker 1: to say, Yes, as a bank, as a lender of
Speaker 1: last resort. But it doesn't seem like that that's part
Speaker 1: of the plan either. It's just very very poor overall
Speaker 1: decision making, sadly from Raniera, who is the is the
Speaker 1: rightful ruler. She then goes to see Allison and is like,
Speaker 1: what do you know about Ormond? Alison doesn't know that much.
Speaker 1: She's like, he's an arrogant guy. He's like Phoebe waller Bridge.
Speaker 1: You know, he thinks he's a scholar. He thinks he's
Speaker 1: a musician. He thinks he's like a gentleman, and he's
Speaker 1: very a feat and you know, he loves the histories.
Speaker 1: He's been good towards Darren, she is told, and Alison,
Speaker 1: you know, says like I wanted Darren sent away so
Speaker 1: that he would be raised as a high tower, not
Speaker 1: as a target AI, and that's why he went there.
Speaker 2: And guess what, bitch, you got your wish And you're
Speaker 2: an idiot. You're a fucking idiot, Allison, and I love you,
Speaker 2: but you're a fucking idiot to wish for that. Your
Speaker 2: fucking look what you've done.
Speaker 1: She further tells Ranera that the thing that we've noticed early,
Speaker 1: which is that Ormond has a very very sensitive news.
Speaker 1: He's a sniffy guy and he hates the stink. Okay, skink.
Speaker 2: I know I was just complaining about her, but I
Speaker 2: did love this moment because once again you see at
Speaker 2: the end that Allison's like fuck like I didn't give
Speaker 2: her anything, Like I need her to know that I
Speaker 2: am still more marginally on her side.
Speaker 3: And obviously I love that foreshadowing because.
Speaker 2: We do see Ormond again and again going back to
Speaker 2: those sense and those little kind of mixes that he's making.
Speaker 2: So it'll be I would love to see the way
Speaker 2: that Rania is gonna be able to use This is
Speaker 2: essentially like a weakness of his because it's.
Speaker 3: Not really something that we've seen utilized.
Speaker 2: I mean scent in general, especially in a show like
Speaker 2: Game of Thrones or the Westreist universe House of the Dragon,
Speaker 2: where it's kind of so the reality would be so disgusting.
Speaker 2: You often don't think about scent. The only thing I
Speaker 2: can really think about is the music movie like Perfume
Speaker 2: based on the book.
Speaker 3: You know, I think.
Speaker 2: Something like that, You really think about it, But in
Speaker 2: movies and TV shows aside from like a smell of vision,
Speaker 2: and we don't often consider it. So I'm very excited
Speaker 2: to see him being tormented by the stenches of kings Landing,
Speaker 2: and you know which, there's many stenches in in in
Speaker 2: westerns Jason.
Speaker 1: It's a stenchy place.
Speaker 2: St.
Speaker 1: Corlis is leaving the city. He says he's going to
Speaker 1: go pursue the triarchy raators who are still kind of
Speaker 1: running around on the landscape. Yeah, he doesn't want to
Speaker 1: stick around here after you got turned down, and he'd
Speaker 1: rather just kill triarchy guys as his form of therapy.
Speaker 1: And he tells Alan, why don't you deal with the
Speaker 1: queen and if she needs me, No, she needs anything
Speaker 1: from House Valarion. You can be the representative of our family.
Speaker 1: It's great. Laris and Eggon continue to sneak around. They
Speaker 1: find the corpse of Sunfire is very very sad. Eggon
Speaker 1: is heartbroken at the sight of his dead dragon. There's
Speaker 1: a guy they're charging like a penny to touch the dragon.
Speaker 1: He is very suspicious of these guys, and Laris and
Speaker 1: Eggon eventually leave, but not after Eggon insists that the
Speaker 1: dragon is alive. Okay, the dragon certainly looks very very dead.
Speaker 2: And very rotting and like sort of like, I mean,
Speaker 2: it looks okay. So, Jason, I want to ask you
Speaker 2: about this because we've kind of talked about what it
Speaker 2: means and how much of omen the dragons are seen as,
Speaker 2: both negatively and positively. What would it do for the
Speaker 2: political kind of status of the small folk to see.
Speaker 3: A dead dragon, like, is that like a game changer?
Speaker 3: Does it?
Speaker 2: Does it insinuate that the faith is rising and the
Speaker 2: Tagarians are falling?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: How does it look that that is just in the
Speaker 2: middle of a forest kind of and rotting?
Speaker 1: It looks bad, right, I mean dragons have been killed
Speaker 1: in battle before.
Speaker 3: M hmm.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it's not good now. The good
Speaker 1: news for Rania and the Targetians on both sides is
Speaker 1: that there are still plenty of dragons. But yeah, it
Speaker 1: is among the many forces that are kind of eroding
Speaker 1: the idea of Targarian exceptionalism. A dead, rotting dragon in
Speaker 1: the woods is like a pretty plunge in analogous symbol
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I also want to.
Speaker 2: Say as well, I was screaming at the TV in
Speaker 2: this moment because this was fucking Eggon's fault. So go
Speaker 2: fuck yourself and your little drunk driving ass ride. That's
Speaker 2: the reason your fucking dragon is dead, Like you are
Speaker 2: the cause of this, So don't you be sounding there
Speaker 2: crying about it Like it made me feel very angry,
Speaker 2: like this is your fault, so you're bad dragon Rider.
Speaker 3: It was on so Christ and Cole speaking of bad guys.
Speaker 1: And GWayne and their very meager army come to heron hall.
Speaker 1: It is you know, Aaron continues to be a mess.
Speaker 1: Alice is there, she says, you know, all the Lord
Speaker 1: Strong and his whole family are dead and everybody's dead,
Speaker 1: and I'm here. I'm kind of like a steward, sort
Speaker 1: of like the cook, the property manager, so to speak.
Speaker 1: Cole and GWayne of course want to know where Amond is,
Speaker 1: and She's like, he's gone. Sorry, oh he's he's gone.
Speaker 1: And by the way, have you heard Naran's taking King's landing,
Speaker 1: which is shocking to Cole and crew.
Speaker 3: Dude, Cole's so upset about it. I love this. I
Speaker 3: have to say. I had never dreamed in a million
Speaker 3: years that.
Speaker 2: I would get to see Kristin Cole get taken down
Speaker 2: by Alice Rivers, which is now what I hope and
Speaker 2: dream for more than anything. Jason, Is this book accurate
Speaker 2: that they come because we don't know very much about
Speaker 2: what happened with Alice and Aimond? But is it book
Speaker 2: accurate that they come to Harron Hall and Alice is
Speaker 2: there and Aimond does not?
Speaker 3: Or is this new.
Speaker 1: It's it's accurate ish in the book, Kristen and Amond
Speaker 1: retake your bloodlessly the same way. They just kind of
Speaker 1: walk in. But when they learn that the Lanister host
Speaker 1: was defeated at the at the Fish and Fish Feed
Speaker 1: Fish Feed, then uh plans change, and you know, Kristen
Speaker 1: has to kind of lead a kind of desperate, uh
Speaker 1: Southerly retreat. So it's it's different. It's he does go there,
Speaker 1: but it's but in a different way.
Speaker 2: I'm very interested in what this means and what we
Speaker 2: could see because I feel like this kind of notion
Speaker 2: of Alice wanting to take Haaren Hall and then imagining
Speaker 2: how pissed off she would be after she just saved
Speaker 2: Amon so she could get Haaren Hall. And now they're saying, well,
Speaker 2: if you kill Aimond, you get Haren Hall to other people.
Speaker 3: I feel like we could really.
Speaker 2: Have some fun Alice moments here with Crispy, because he's
Speaker 2: also like so fucked up by women.
Speaker 3: Also, why do they just believe her that Amon's gone?
Speaker 3: That's a big thing.
Speaker 2: Do you think that's how witchy magic Like she's kind
Speaker 2: of glamoring them a bit, because if I would be suching,
Speaker 2: I would be such in the Costle for my camp.
Speaker 1: It could be that, well, I'm sure that they are
Speaker 1: going to search, like I'm sure that his men are
Speaker 1: looking all around at the same time this she does
Speaker 1: bring this news of Rania's victory, and that's very, very shocking,
Speaker 1: and that would change their priorities, you know, pretty drastically,
Speaker 1: because now you're you're against the dragons. You don't know
Speaker 1: where Vegar is, you have no you have no cover
Speaker 1: from above. And in fact, Kristin Cole because of this,
Speaker 1: does change his he's fighting tactics. Like after this, Gawayne suggests,
Speaker 1: let's go, why don't we send word to Tumbleton. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Ormond is there, join with him. Then we have like
Speaker 1: a bigger army and Cole is like, no, you're fucking soft.
Speaker 1: You want to sleep in a feather bed. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm used to sleeping on outside and being a warrior
Speaker 1: and slogging through the mud. I am gonna fight on
Speaker 1: as long as Vernia is on the throne. And so
Speaker 1: instead of marching around in the daylight information, let's to
Speaker 1: protect ourselves from the dragons, Let's become like a gorilla insurgency.
Speaker 1: We will strike out of the woods and then melt away.
Speaker 1: We'll do raids, we'll do quick attacks on supply lines,
Speaker 1: and we will avoid these kind of big set piece
Speaker 1: battles where one army is defeated another one is victorious.
Speaker 1: Hid it run?
Speaker 2: This shit cracks me up so much because what he's
Speaker 2: really freaking out about is he backed the wrong horse
Speaker 2: once again.
Speaker 3: Well he went to at that bro. He doesn't think that.
Speaker 2: But this man is just like he just realized his
Speaker 2: ex girlfriend is now the king, his ex girlfriend that
Speaker 2: he betrayed with her best friend. Like he's fucked and
Speaker 2: that's why he came up with this platte because Verniera's
Speaker 2: gona fucking kill him if he's still around, Like he's
Speaker 2: just scared, and I love it.
Speaker 1: I think I don't think he's I think he is.
Speaker 2: He says there's no home left for me, like Wavner
Speaker 2: is on the throat. True many reasons he's on a suician.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's afraid. Really, I think he's very
Speaker 1: very angry, and I think that he has been. I
Speaker 1: think he thinks to himself that he's kind of been
Speaker 1: used by these more powerful figures, which I don't think
Speaker 1: is which I think is correct, and I think he
Speaker 1: he considers himself to have agency as a warrior. That's
Speaker 1: what he's good at, that's what he knows how to do,
Speaker 1: and so therefore he's going to continue doing that because
Speaker 1: that's how he's able to rule his own life and
Speaker 1: make decisions and that that can continue to have an impact.
Speaker 1: And so I think that's why he's doing He's also
Speaker 1: like just very very sad and depressed.
Speaker 3: He is such a sad boy.
Speaker 1: And I love that Rania is looking at her ads
Speaker 1: models of old Valeria. Alan comes to see her and
Speaker 1: basically tells her, you know, Corliss is leaving. He's gonna
Speaker 1: work on the triarchy issue, and you know you should
Speaker 1: just let him go. Eggan and Laris come within sight
Speaker 1: of Rook's rest and it's just like a bad it's
Speaker 1: a bad scene there. The people are struggling, like.
Speaker 2: Digging through dead bodies, like fighting over dead bodies and stuff.
Speaker 3: It's it's nasty times.
Speaker 1: Melisse, the dead dragon of Rainy's Corliss's wife is just
Speaker 1: still draped over the walls because how do you move it.
Speaker 1: Some kind of local tough guys come and big time
Speaker 1: Laris and egg On. One of their leaders named Janos
Speaker 1: and Laris has to pay them off to allow them
Speaker 1: to stay, and then they have to earn their keep
Speaker 1: with egg On. Now getting a job is like piss
Speaker 1: you know, it's like deputy piss bucket boy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's piss bucket boy Junior. He's not happy about it. Also,
Speaker 2: could I say something about Laris. Yeah, he's not great
Speaker 2: on the road. He's glowing up every time we see him.
Speaker 2: He's actually looking bad. Then he used to look when
Speaker 2: he was in King's Landing. So I feel like he's
Speaker 2: just made for this life.
Speaker 1: Well, especially here in Rooks Rest, where it's like, well
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a cripple, so I can't be a pisbucket boy.
Speaker 1: I've just got to sit down and watch everything happen.
Speaker 1: Sorry about that. Yeah, my hallaciously and severely injured and
Speaker 1: burned friend is going to have to be the pissbucket
Speaker 1: guy because he can walk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, it's if you ask me. I know I
Speaker 3: love him.
Speaker 2: That's why he's doing so well. He's getting that rest
Speaker 2: and restoration that he never had before.
Speaker 3: Good for him.
Speaker 1: In Tumbleton, the soldiers are quartering with the small folk,
Speaker 1: and of course they're menacing them. And you know it's
Speaker 1: it's just a bad scene overall. Hugh goes to see
Speaker 1: Raniera and says, I would like to take watch over
Speaker 1: Tumblinton because my family has fled there. Remember when we
Speaker 1: when the capital was out of food and there was
Speaker 1: a lot of chaos here, they left and they went there,
Speaker 1: And Raniera says, absolutely, you and Olf can take turns.
Speaker 1: That's perfect. Meanwhile, new graffiti has appeared in the city.
Speaker 1: It says bastard's uh. Oh Lf goes to his old
Speaker 1: like bar where everybody knows your name type situation.
Speaker 3: Yes, where we first met him, right when he has
Speaker 3: the dragon move.
Speaker 1: What's up? Oh sons quite to see you, hopefully woefully
Speaker 1: see you, oh sung out what you're doing? And uh,
Speaker 1: you know he's big timing everybody. He's got a full
Speaker 1: purse now and everybody sticks him with the bill and
Speaker 1: it's wonderful. Meanwhile, back in Tumbleton, Lady Footley comes to
Speaker 1: complain again about the high Tower mental Ormond because one
Speaker 1: of his men has attacked members of what turns out
Speaker 1: to be hug the Hammer's family like his wife.
Speaker 3: I did not put to and it together that that's
Speaker 3: who that was. That's craze.
Speaker 1: They kind of brutalize his brother in law, the wife's brother,
Speaker 1: and almost rape her or maybe you it's unclear because
Speaker 1: it's a lot happens off.
Speaker 2: Definitely some kind of sexual assault happens. It's really horrible
Speaker 2: to watch.
Speaker 1: And lady so yeah, Lady Footley comes to complain to Ormond. Hey,
Speaker 1: you said you're going to keep the peace, and look
Speaker 1: what happened. And the guy, the attacker, is there and
Speaker 1: Ormond's like, well, you did it right, look at you.
Speaker 1: Therefore you're gonna be gelded. Yikes, is gonna yeah? So
Speaker 1: I think that's just the balls or is that dickenballs?
Speaker 3: I thought it was just maybe I think it's just
Speaker 3: the dick. I can't remember, Actually, Joe, which one is it?
Speaker 1: Is it dick and ball? Let's look it up. It's yeah,
Speaker 1: it is just the testicles. Okay. So he's like, you're
Speaker 1: gonna lose your You're gonna lose your nuts. And because
Speaker 1: you broke this gentleman's arm, your arm will also be broken.
Speaker 1: And then because she's like, oh that's ship right. Because
Speaker 1: you broke this woman's arm, your arm will also be broken.
Speaker 1: And the guy's trying to be like I have a wife.
Speaker 1: Sirreadys like whatever, you're.
Speaker 3: Give a ship He's like, don't.
Speaker 1: Then as they drag him away, Ormond turns to Darren
Speaker 1: and says, see, that's how you do it, firm hand,
Speaker 1: no lawlessness. You punish crime immediately when it happens. That's
Speaker 1: that's how you rule. You will find out later that
Speaker 1: he is indeed preparing Darren. Rania asks for a while
Speaker 1: for all the messages between King's landing auto High Tower,
Speaker 1: when you know, when he was handing the king all
Speaker 1: of Otto's messages to Ormond at Old Town, and she's
Speaker 1: questioning or while about the high towers and could it
Speaker 1: be she seems to be wondering, like, could it be
Speaker 1: the influence of high towers? Old Time is a very
Speaker 1: important religious site. The Star Recept is there. It's a
Speaker 1: very important religious site. They have a lot of influence
Speaker 1: with the faith. And so she seems to be wondering
Speaker 1: if it was the influence of the if it was
Speaker 1: the influence of the high towers that convinced the High
Speaker 1: scept and to not back her and not annoint her.
Speaker 1: And you know, she's she's clearly worried about that. Or
Speaker 1: a while says that, you know, they don't have that
Speaker 1: much influence. Really, the faith guard their independence very very doggedly,
Speaker 1: and so so he doubts it. She then wonders kind
Speaker 1: of muses, what, you know, what if something happens to
Speaker 1: the High Sept and he quits or you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know, falls down a flight of stairs and dies
Speaker 1: or something, and says, I don't do that.
Speaker 3: That would be chaotic.
Speaker 1: And the people obviously like love. You know, it has
Speaker 1: been it's pointed out to Ranier it and again, and
Speaker 1: we should not forget that while these folks have very
Speaker 1: very little to their lives, the faith is the thing
Speaker 1: that is there for them. The doors of the scepter
Speaker 1: are always open, et cetera, and it would be or
Speaker 1: while points out a bad idea to cross the faith
Speaker 1: in too aggressive a way, certainly by I don't know,
Speaker 1: firing the sceptern or knocking off the ceptin or whatever. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: but he is like, unless you're just gonna like yeah,
Speaker 1: She's just like, yeah, you don't want to get away
Speaker 1: with it, like if you killed them, like, which is
Speaker 1: a pretty pretty ruthless thing of or while to be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't get in a protracted like argument with them,
Speaker 1: but you're gonna kill them.
Speaker 3: But she also it's I love this.
Speaker 2: If we're speaking about like character moments, I love this
Speaker 2: moment because it is a really important little like sharing
Speaker 2: of at least what Allile wants Vanera to see of him,
Speaker 2: and it makes her feel like she has a little
Speaker 2: trust in him. And she kind of makes this joke
Speaker 2: about how she's impressed, but that's not what she's.
Speaker 1: He's got the juice a little bit.
Speaker 3: He does have the juice.
Speaker 2: And I gotta say, as much as I was ragging,
Speaker 2: I don't think she's making her best choices.
Speaker 3: I do think this.
Speaker 2: Is very fucking insightful of her, and I think it
Speaker 2: pays off really well in the final kind of scenes
Speaker 2: that we get with Darn because I do think that
Speaker 2: the Faith and Darron are at least I mean not
Speaker 2: Darren Ormond, are at least aligned in the way they
Speaker 2: feel about Renera, even if it's not because of High
Speaker 2: Tower messing. But I think she's catching onto something that
Speaker 2: is going to be a problem for her. I wish
Speaker 2: she was smart enough to know that this is something
Speaker 2: she should continue to focus on. You know, she's got
Speaker 2: so many fucking things going on that it's impossible for
Speaker 2: her to keep her mind on what she needs to.
Speaker 1: So Damon goes to the veil. She's Jane Aaron. She's
Speaker 1: not happy to see him, especially because, as we all recall,
Speaker 1: he did kill his wife, Ria Royce, who is you know,
Speaker 1: from an important family in the veil. And Damon is like, listen,
Speaker 1: I'll leave, but I need money because we need money.
Speaker 1: We're kind of broke right now. Jane knows. He realizes, oh,
Speaker 1: you guys are broke. And also he points out, like
Speaker 1: you were supposed to send men for the war. You
Speaker 1: didn't send men. So I'm here for money. The faster
Speaker 1: you give me the money, the faster I leave. So
Speaker 1: she pays up. He's loading the gold onto the back
Speaker 1: of Karaxies when Karaxies starts to get agitated and it
Speaker 1: flies off without Damon being able to really rain the
Speaker 1: dragon in. And it's because Karaxies sense sheep stealers, saw
Speaker 1: sheep steeler, smelt sheep steeler flying across the valley, and
Speaker 1: Craxi's lands at a cave and Damon goes in, and
Speaker 1: who should come forward but his bedraggled drag gnld and
Speaker 1: bedraggled daughter Rada looks terrible.
Speaker 2: She's given the beligue at Stars Network, like it's going tough,
Speaker 2: it's coming tough.
Speaker 1: But her hair is burned off, she's wearing tattered clothes,
Speaker 1: crazy scratches on our face kind of you imagine like
Speaker 1: this is the cost of taming a wild dragon, or
Speaker 1: at least having a wild dragon in your life.
Speaker 2: But we get some really, we have some really good
Speaker 2: insight into what has driven her to this position.
Speaker 1: And that's right.
Speaker 3: So she she.
Speaker 1: You know, she's like, listen, yes, I was, I'm the
Speaker 1: one on sheepstealer and I caused you know, doesn't doesn't
Speaker 1: really address the fact that she caused Jason's death, although
Speaker 1: Damon brings it up and it's like, you know, the queen,
Speaker 1: the queen thinks that the person riding this dragon killed
Speaker 1: her son, and she's like, listen, I was just trying
Speaker 1: to help. Damon is crushed. He's it's he's very very
Speaker 1: like it's like one of those leagues. I'm disappointed. I'm
Speaker 1: he's not angry, he's just disappointed.
Speaker 2: I think he's like you like immediately knows he's about
Speaker 2: to be torn in half with the loyalty his child
Speaker 2: and the loyalty to his wife.
Speaker 1: Who she was supposed to be in Pentoss, he points
Speaker 1: out with the little kids, And so why don't you
Speaker 1: just go right now, you know, go now and nobody
Speaker 1: will know and we can play it off. And Rain
Speaker 1: is like, no, I'm not leaving, sheep Stealer, because Targeton
Speaker 1: with a dragon is nothing and is ignored by everybody.
Speaker 1: And I have a dragon now, and I'm gonna live
Speaker 1: in this cave forever. And that's it. Just looking like shit,
Speaker 1: eating just only burnt lamb, no vegetables, no carbs or anything,
Speaker 1: just like meat. And that's it. That's what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1: Sheep Stealer then flies off and leaves, and Damon watches
Speaker 1: it go, and then he hears like a bag of
Speaker 1: sheep at the valley below. And he looks down and
Speaker 1: you know, maybe maybe fifty to eighty feet away down
Speaker 1: the valley is a sheep herder and you know what
Speaker 1: Damon's about to do next, which is kill it. It
Speaker 1: isn't working man.
Speaker 2: Every time with this fucking guy. Man like he says,
Speaker 2: he fucking sees himself as a god. These motherfuckers just
Speaker 2: answer to him. Like he does not even give a
Speaker 2: shit it for a second. But again, if we're talking
Speaker 2: about short time thinking, this motherfucker and Missia are in
Speaker 2: the same fucking boat.
Speaker 3: Because this is a dumb ass. He doesn't think it
Speaker 3: through enough, Jason. He needs more of a story, He
Speaker 3: needs more of a story.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. This is a medium term plan. This
Speaker 1: is a better plan than the Missaria plan. I'm okay,
Speaker 1: that's just the time it is. It's like he might
Speaker 1: get away with it. Maybe he will get away with
Speaker 1: the cheap steels far away.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like meanwhile, like whatever Missaria does, there's still
Speaker 1: gonna be no food and there's still gonna be kle. Anyway,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break while we read back. We're
Speaker 1: at Ormond is smelling his perfumes and having a meal
Speaker 1: when a raven arrives with bad news from heron Hall.
Speaker 1: He explodes at this. At this note, it says that
Speaker 1: Amond is not coming to their aid. Cole and GWayne
Speaker 1: are not coming to their aid, and now Ormond realizes
Speaker 1: that it's time for him to change plans somehow. Or
Speaker 1: a while back in King's Landing, says that he's completed
Speaker 1: his his review of the letters between King's Landing and Ormond,
Speaker 1: and he basically says listen Otto wrote Ormond a lot,
Speaker 1: but Ormond never wrote back, which is very very interesting.
Speaker 1: And or while thinks this means that Ormond really didn't
Speaker 1: take Auto's council and ran old Town as he saw
Speaker 1: fit and did not interesting, wasn't under the influence of
Speaker 1: is that much wiser member of his family?
Speaker 2: Is that something that either of all unreliable narrates is
Speaker 2: new or is this new information.
Speaker 3: In terms of its like Ormond Like yeah, like is
Speaker 3: it in the book.
Speaker 1: Again? Ormond is like mentioned in the books, but he's
Speaker 1: not really.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm thinking, right, it feels like a big
Speaker 2: it's a big expansion.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's like, yeah, I guess it's like
Speaker 1: more detail it they don't really talk about it. It
Speaker 1: certainly could be true that Ormond ran old Town independently,
Speaker 1: but we just don't know. It's not mentioned at all.
Speaker 2: I'm really interested to see how that kind of because
Speaker 2: we have such an idea of of you know, Alison's
Speaker 2: dad just being this like ultimate puppet master. And I
Speaker 2: think it's really interesting that there may be another high
Speaker 2: Tower who is playing their own game.
Speaker 1: For for sure. Both comes to see Rania and asks
Speaker 1: for a boon. He's like, listen, I have some of
Speaker 1: these friends at the tavern and they need some stuff.
Speaker 1: One of them needs a house tax free, another one
Speaker 1: wants like his shoplifting charges dropped. And Arnier's like, wait
Speaker 1: a second, who the fuck are these people. He's like,
Speaker 1: these are my friends at the tavern uh in.
Speaker 3: Fleable where I go every day.
Speaker 1: And uh yeaheah, so like what you know. And by
Speaker 1: the way, they're mad at you because of no food,
Speaker 1: because of the graffiti, yeah and all that shit. So
Speaker 1: and he seems to be insinuating that like to placate
Speaker 1: him is to placate them.
Speaker 3: Yes, it is. He's definitely saying that.
Speaker 2: And I gotta say, if I'm Raniera, bitch, I'm chopping
Speaker 2: that man's head off and finding another dragon seed.
Speaker 3: Because it's so obvious he's gonna betray you.
Speaker 2: And it's also, well, I think it's so great about
Speaker 2: the storytelling here is it's so clear that he believes
Speaker 2: that he is like righteous, like he's not even really
Speaker 2: trying to scamma, like he truly believes that he deserves
Speaker 2: it as friends does of it, She kind of sucks,
Speaker 2: and it will be better off if he takes the
Speaker 2: money that is given.
Speaker 1: This guy is for sale, period, and the sooner Raniera
Speaker 1: can actually follow through on some of her promises of
Speaker 1: a house and am and gold and all that shit.
Speaker 1: The a bit, yes, the more secure she will be
Speaker 1: with the services of off White, but we will see
Speaker 1: what will happen. Rania then orders the graffiti in the
Speaker 1: in the city cleaned up and anyone who was found
Speaker 1: to be responsible for that punished. Meanwhile, over at Brooks
Speaker 1: Rested Eggon is working. Laris comes, you know, doing pissbucket
Speaker 1: boys stuff. Laris comes over and says, there's a ship coming,
Speaker 1: Bravosi Cog coming soon. We can slip aboard. I've set
Speaker 1: it up. Let's get out of here. And Eggon learns
Speaker 1: in this conversation that the realm thinks he's dead and
Speaker 1: thinks that aim and killed him, which makes him very,
Speaker 1: very very He's like, I'm a fucking kill a but
Speaker 1: that bitch so mad, and Lari's is like, listen to
Speaker 1: calm down, okay, just chill. We're getting a lot of
Speaker 1: good information here and we can leave on this ship.
Speaker 1: And yes, everybody thinks you're dead, but you're not dead,
Speaker 1: and that means that later when you appear again alive,
Speaker 1: I will personally make sure that the story is like
Speaker 1: a messianic story, like you have been resurrected. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: this means that you know you're the rightful king and
Speaker 1: all that.
Speaker 2: Honestly, pretty smart on Laris's side, because like one place
Speaker 2: to the.
Speaker 3: Ego, but two from what we actually know of egg
Speaker 3: On and Eggon dying and then some fire.
Speaker 2: You actually really could spin a great story out of this,
Speaker 2: and by listening to what the common folk think hearing
Speaker 2: that intel, they can essentially get details that will make
Speaker 2: it seem even more believable.
Speaker 3: Right, I'm not gonna lie Laris.
Speaker 2: If we were doing like Raven's report and we were
Speaker 2: doing MVPs, I think he comes out of this pretty well.
Speaker 2: Like the I don't think the egg On is a
Speaker 2: loyal person who's gonna k he kept him alive. But
Speaker 2: I think that Laris is doing an unbelievable job at
Speaker 2: keeping Eggon alive for whatever his reasoning is. You know,
Speaker 2: we know that he's like always thinking twenty steps ahead,
Speaker 2: like how he left old Man in the in the
Speaker 2: dungeon for a little meme kind of joke for Damon,
Speaker 2: so you know, it's it's a good time to be Laris.
Speaker 2: I believe.
Speaker 1: Damon delivers the burned head of the random guy to
Speaker 1: Raniera in the small council room and nice Glory announces
Speaker 1: the delivery of multiple bags of gold from the veil.
Speaker 1: Rania is like, who the fuck is this guy, but
Speaker 1: she accepts it touring Manderally, by the way, is now
Speaker 1: master of coin and with this new gold, the debate
Speaker 1: opens up what do we do with it? So the
Speaker 1: choices are pay the city watch and recruit more soldiers
Speaker 1: or buy food for the people. And Manderlely is like,
Speaker 1: well what if we raise taxes to get some money
Speaker 1: going classic? And Raniera is like meeting over, everybody, get out,
Speaker 1: there's no decisions made at all. Rner just like shuts
Speaker 1: down on me. She wants to know about the head. Uh,
Speaker 1: what about the dragon? What about the head? What about sheepstealer?
Speaker 1: Give me you just show up with the head. And
Speaker 1: this guy killed my son? Did he do it? And
Speaker 1: David is like, I don't know, but this was the
Speaker 1: guy riding the dragon and he's done.
Speaker 2: So it's crazy, don't worry about no one else would
Speaker 2: do that, Like, it doesn't fucking male.
Speaker 1: Vernier's like I wanted to talk to him, like I
Speaker 1: wanted to interrogate him, and Damon's like, well, what are
Speaker 1: you gonna do? She then decrees that the gold will
Speaker 1: be for arming the small folk and promises that the
Speaker 1: watch are gonna get paid as soon as she's able,
Speaker 1: So basically like splitting the baby. Yeah way, And it
Speaker 1: really doesn't satisfy either side.
Speaker 2: It is really funny that, like she's in this hilarious
Speaker 2: like Thrupple situation where it's like the two wives and
Speaker 2: she's constantly trying to keep them happy, and neither of.
Speaker 3: Them are happy.
Speaker 2: It's like so bad, and Damon and Missia are just
Speaker 2: on their own shit, like having their own little beefs.
Speaker 1: I mean, Massori needs to get fired. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Anyways, I was gonna say, what do you do think
Speaker 2: that this interaction is going to lead to that? Let's
Speaker 2: talk about I mean, there's clearly gonna be a struggle, right,
Speaker 2: So Massaria and Damon, who remember our exes, have a
Speaker 2: little argument where Damon's like, I know you're up to
Speaker 2: some shit. I know you're up to something, and Missaria
Speaker 2: is like, oh yeah, like whose head is that? I
Speaker 2: know that's not sheepstealers. She doesn't fully accuse him of
Speaker 2: bringing a fake head, but she knows that she knows
Speaker 2: he brought a fake head.
Speaker 1: She knows he's lying about it. Meanwhile, Alison and Helene
Speaker 1: are just kind of chilling. When Reneer comes to see
Speaker 1: them Auto's bones, she announces will go to old Town
Speaker 1: and she brings his signet ring for Allison, and then
Speaker 1: she leaves, and as Allison is kind of like having
Speaker 1: a quiet moment with Helena, looks at her and just
Speaker 1: realizes Helene is pregnant with a huge, huge problem, huge
Speaker 1: problem because this is the child of King Egon, so
Speaker 1: that's bad. Meanwhile, in Tumbleton, Ormond is making everyone go
Speaker 1: home because now there's a curfew. When a dragon flies over,
Speaker 1: it is Hugh and Vermuthor on their new orders from
Speaker 1: Queen Rania to just kind of like keep watch over Tumbleton.
Speaker 1: In King's Landing, the watch goes around looking for the
Speaker 1: graffiti people and is just killing bad idea.
Speaker 3: Jupidness. Shouldn't have done it all if you're idiot. She's
Speaker 3: an idiot, idiots.
Speaker 1: Darren is cuddling with his Ormond then takes this quiet
Speaker 1: moment to like have a little father son father surrogate
Speaker 1: son moment with Darren, and he's like, listen, you're tainted
Speaker 1: with Targarian blood. The Targerians are aliens in this world.
Speaker 1: Dragons are the worst, worst magic.
Speaker 3: It's terrible abominations.
Speaker 1: But I want you to be king and take the throne.
Speaker 1: And Darren is like, wait a second, yeah, my brothers
Speaker 1: are the king. Like it's either my brother or my
Speaker 1: brother or egon, Like what are you? What are you
Speaker 1: talking about? Ormand then brings the husband of the woman
Speaker 1: who was attacked, Hugh's brother in law and says, kill
Speaker 1: this guy, Darren. And because here's the thing. Of course,
Speaker 1: you show the public the public face in which you
Speaker 1: are magnanimous and you do the right way, and you
Speaker 1: are just and you always follow through on the laws.
Speaker 1: But in private, anybody who crosses you must be punished.
Speaker 2: He touched the high fucking soldier, high stupid ass fucking
Speaker 2: astubid family soldier.
Speaker 3: That means he touched you, like.
Speaker 2: High tower blah blah, bullshit, bullshit, crazy ass Ormond.
Speaker 3: I love this speech.
Speaker 2: He's insane after this in the scene where we see
Speaker 2: him chop up the table, like you just know, like
Speaker 2: he is essentially his own version of evangelical crazy, like
Speaker 2: he is an evangelist against dragons, against targarians, and he
Speaker 2: clearly sees Ormond as like a weapon. I mean he
Speaker 2: sees Darren is a weapon of the faith.
Speaker 3: Essentially, like how Blade is a day.
Speaker 2: Walker who's used against vampires, which I thought was really
Speaker 2: interesting and I love this speech, Like I did not
Speaker 2: expect Ormond to be coming.
Speaker 3: Through this bigley.
Speaker 2: Let's say so, Jason again, you you kind of mentioned this,
Speaker 2: but I did want to ask you, like, is this Ormond,
Speaker 2: Like we don't really know a law about womens?
Speaker 3: So is this new Ormond canon? Like is it did
Speaker 3: he always had?
Speaker 1: This is big time new Ormond canon. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: this is Ormond as a kind of active, manipulating figure
Speaker 1: in the darkness and the shadows, attempting to kind of
Speaker 1: like be a catspaw to a new king Darren, who
Speaker 1: I would imagine Ormond thinks will just be like his puppet.
Speaker 1: Is absolutely new stuff, okay and very very interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and we'll be back with
Speaker 1: our thoughts about this episode. Yeah, and we're back. Okay. Uh.
Speaker 1: The season continues to be like really great, great, interesting,
Speaker 1: and I'm with you, like the addition of Ormond is
Speaker 1: a kind of villain We've never seen a villain yet,
Speaker 1: like this before. Your thoughts on the episode.
Speaker 2: I loved it. I think it's huge. I loved I
Speaker 2: kind of I'm not gonna lie. I love the opening, right,
Speaker 2: but the first like twenty minutes I did kind of
Speaker 2: have that feeling of like, Okay, this is one of
Speaker 2: those mid season episodes where you've got to go around
Speaker 2: and check in on all the different characters and make
Speaker 2: sure the storylines are lining up. And that's not a
Speaker 2: bad thing, but the first three episodes were so astounding
Speaker 2: and just so fucking they had so much.
Speaker 3: Momentum and movement emotion that I was like worried that
Speaker 3: this would lose that.
Speaker 2: But what I really think that this episode does so
Speaker 2: well is actually it's just setting you up for.
Speaker 3: That real reveal.
Speaker 2: The Ormond actually sees thereon as essentially not only an
Speaker 2: air but a weapon to righteously end the Targarian Rain.
Speaker 2: That's fucking cool as shit, Like that's crazy. It's an
Speaker 2: insane play. I kind of love how Ormonds seems really
Speaker 2: smart and gentlemanly and of the court, but he's making
Speaker 2: these insane swings that are more like the swings of
Speaker 2: like a radical religious zeala, which is kind of what
Speaker 2: he is when we hear his speech. So yeah, by
Speaker 2: the end of it, I was just once again like fuck, yeah,
Speaker 2: I love this.
Speaker 3: I also was.
Speaker 2: Kind of surprised, honestly by Damon's plan that was a
Speaker 2: I thought it just wasn't well thought out. Like if
Speaker 2: that was me, I would have made up like a
Speaker 2: high tower cousin that no one knew of, or pretended
Speaker 2: like there was a reason I would have I would
Speaker 2: have pretended that there had been legend. I think he
Speaker 2: didn't go in with enough of a story. And I
Speaker 2: think that in those long dark nights when Raniera's thinking
Speaker 2: about Jase, her curiosity will lead her down roads that
Speaker 2: will make her question what Damon has told her, and
Speaker 2: I think that is gonna be problem. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean I just by the end of this episode, I
Speaker 2: was just like, fuck, Ormond's gonna be like a Jeoffrey
Speaker 2: level villain. I think I think he's gonna be that hateable.
Speaker 2: I think he's gonna be that evil. And I also
Speaker 2: love that even with the small amount that they've been
Speaker 2: doing with Darren, who I didn't realize is played by
Speaker 2: the same kid from blind Manor, He's he's from The
Speaker 2: Haunting of bly Manor. He played one of the boys
Speaker 2: that was why I recognized him so much, played one
Speaker 2: of the two kids in the House of the Screw
Speaker 2: inspired season of Mike Flanagan's incredible Netflix show. And I
Speaker 2: love that they've already kind of been showing that Darren
Speaker 2: has this softer side to him, Like he insisted on
Speaker 2: the servant who bought the raven leaving so he wouldn't
Speaker 2: get chopped up by Ormond.
Speaker 3: He doesn't want.
Speaker 2: To kill the merchant, even though he does eventually, and
Speaker 2: you realize Ormond does have this power over him and
Speaker 2: he does want to use him.
Speaker 3: He does want to use Seri, and he wants to
Speaker 3: use his Dragon.
Speaker 2: But I love the way that they're slowly building in
Speaker 2: how different Darren is to Ormond, which I think is
Speaker 2: obviously going to become a big important.
Speaker 3: Factor going forward.
Speaker 2: I just it kind of blows my mind how much
Speaker 2: extra we're getting about this world and kind of how
Speaker 2: much I could watch a whole season just about now.
Speaker 3: These two, you know, which I'm sure is what they want.
Speaker 2: But it's funny how organically I want to know more
Speaker 2: even when it's not stuff that's directly from George's source material,
Speaker 2: which I think is what this show has always done
Speaker 2: so well. Jason, for you as someone who does know
Speaker 2: the source material so well, there's a couple of big
Speaker 2: shifts here. What were your biggest takeaways, Like what was
Speaker 2: the thing that you felt added the most to what
Speaker 2: we know?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: I think Ormond is huge ed obviously, he's again like
Speaker 1: just mentioned in the in the Annals of Fire and Blood,
Speaker 1: you know, Raina being the dragon Rider.
Speaker 3: Yeah, is it.
Speaker 1: Very interesting addition, you know in the books, Damon like
Speaker 1: has basically kind of falls in love with Nettles, who
Speaker 1: is the writer of Sheep Show. So that's very different.
Speaker 1: And I think this version adds some really interesting juice,
Speaker 1: I think, to the drama because you understand immediately why
Speaker 1: it makes him a more sympathetic figure is protecting his daughter,
Speaker 1: He's not just like in love with another young fluozy
Speaker 1: who he's trying to protect from from Rania, So that
Speaker 1: is quite interesting. And then the Laris and egg On
Speaker 1: stuff is great. You know in the books he kind
Speaker 1: of goes straight to Dragonstone by fishing boat and it's
Speaker 1: just kind of there and so him, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it feels like they're setting up a redemption arc.
Speaker 2: Right, That's why I was gonna say, feel like those
Speaker 2: of them could be on a redemption arp.
Speaker 1: That is very interesting to me.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's it's like it's like they say, how everyone should
Speaker 1: work a service job. You know, everyone should we take
Speaker 1: to a certain everybody and I guess the West West
Speaker 1: version of this is everybody should carry piss buckets. Everyone understand, Yeah,
Speaker 1: just to understand like how people live and you and
Speaker 1: you wonder, I certainly wonder, like how will this change Eggon?
Speaker 1: Will it change him for the better? I think there's
Speaker 1: at least a chance that it does. He's a terrible person,
Speaker 1: but they all are.
Speaker 3: And they don't have a chance and I have a chance.
Speaker 1: Part of the thing that is really hampering Rnierer right now,
Speaker 1: it's not just that she's getting terrible advice, which she is.
Speaker 1: It's that she's in this bubble and she doesn't even
Speaker 1: realize that it's a bubble. Like when when people come
Speaker 1: into her orbit from you know, a different socioeconomic class,
Speaker 1: whether it's oh for or Hugh. She is unable to understand,
Speaker 1: like what motivates them, Like it's very obvious what motivates
Speaker 1: Ulf is just make him feel valued, give him some
Speaker 1: give him some sort of money, give him a house,
Speaker 1: same thing Hugh. It's like Hugh is trying to protect
Speaker 1: his family. He wants to get his family back together again.
Speaker 1: She's money, and you know, security, money. Financial security is
Speaker 1: something that Ranier could offer despite the fact that the
Speaker 1: you know, they're obviously broke, there is some cash around,
Speaker 1: but not being able to find a way to satisfy
Speaker 1: them and really lock in their loyalty. You have to
Speaker 1: wonder if it's going to pay. You know, it's gonna
Speaker 1: come back to bite her at a certain point. And
Speaker 1: and and it's her inability to understand that that is
Speaker 1: I think the biggest problem with her reign. Like forget
Speaker 1: the fact that Massari is like the small fuck. You know,
Speaker 1: it's important that we got to make sure everybody's fed. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: of course, but.
Speaker 3: She's in the shoes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Missa can't even can't even you know, bring the
Speaker 1: reality of it to Rneer a home in a way
Speaker 1: that she can understand, and even like again her conversations
Speaker 1: with Hugh Andolf, don't do it. So it's just a huge, huge,
Speaker 1: huge problem. And then you see how Damon acts, which
Speaker 1: is any person that I see that's just around that
Speaker 1: is not a member of a royal family, I can
Speaker 1: just kill them very easily, no problem, and then pass
Speaker 1: their body parts off as evidence that I trade or
Speaker 1: his behavior evidence that I killed a trader like they.
Speaker 1: He has no idea about the value of life, and
Speaker 1: certainly the value of lives of the small folk. And
Speaker 1: I think while Rania is not a cold blooded murderer
Speaker 1: who would just you know, slaughter some innocent person walking around,
Speaker 1: she might order, like what of her henschies, to go
Speaker 1: slaughter a person if she found out interest. So I
Speaker 1: think it's I think that is the crux of the
Speaker 1: problem with Rania. And so you wonder, as Eggon is
Speaker 1: kind of immersed in the culture and of the small
Speaker 1: folk and just surrounded by small folk, kind of at
Speaker 1: their mercy without them knowing who he is, you wonder
Speaker 1: if that is going to give him an edge in
Speaker 1: what is looking increasingly like an important front in the war,
Speaker 1: which is the public relations front visa the small folk.
Speaker 1: Is he going to be able to frame himself as
Speaker 1: a rightful ruler going forward because of his understanding and
Speaker 1: knowledge of the daily lives of the small folk.
Speaker 3: Is that going to be a factor. It might be
Speaker 3: living alongside them too.
Speaker 2: And I mean, this is the thing that I really love, right,
Speaker 2: And I'm glad you brought this up because this is
Speaker 2: kind of a nice, a nice little thought to end on.
Speaker 2: But like something that I had really spoken to me
Speaker 2: about this episode is I did feel like through egg
Speaker 2: On especially but also through you know, seeing Rainar, like
Speaker 2: these different experiences. It was giving Night of the Seven Kingdoms.
Speaker 2: It was reminding me. It was almost like we were
Speaker 2: getting the other look at poverty, the other look at
Speaker 2: Fleabot'm like, how does it feel to experience them as
Speaker 2: someone who has been so wealthy, so hugely popular.
Speaker 3: It felt so of a.
Speaker 2: Kind of spiritual conversation, thematic conversation about class, about wester Roast.
Speaker 2: And obviously that is reflective of egg story as we've
Speaker 2: seen it in that, you know, So yeah, I just
Speaker 2: am really impressed with that aspect and I really do
Speaker 2: want to see how much they commit to it. And
Speaker 2: also what levels we get because Jason, we've talked about
Speaker 2: this a lot with like and or and stuff. Missi
Speaker 2: is definitely giving like short term thinking, no organization, no
Speaker 2: greater plans, no revolution, Like she does not have the
Speaker 2: leadership right.
Speaker 3: I'm very interested to see.
Speaker 2: If we get more insight into the people who do
Speaker 2: and who are able to do stuff within the realm
Speaker 2: and get stuff done for the small folk. So I
Speaker 2: think it's a really interesting path and it's gonna be
Speaker 2: intriguing to see how Laris specifically and Eggon kind of
Speaker 2: utilize that as they get closer to that inevitable kind
Speaker 2: of resurrection.
Speaker 1: We are going to continue, of course, to cover House
Speaker 1: of the Dragon as the season continues. The next episode
Speaker 1: of Extra Vision, we're diving into X Men ninety seven
Speaker 1: episode five. That's it for this episode.
Speaker 3: Extra stec Bye.
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepts Young and
Speaker 1: Rosie Knight and as a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 2: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wag.
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Speaker 2: Heidi our Discord moderator,