1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Brady. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: My name is Matt pal nol Is on Adventures. They 6 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: called me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer, 7 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: Paul Mission Control decond. Most importantly, you are you, You 8 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want 9 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: you to know. How's it? How's it going? Matt? I 10 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: gotta say I still love the lighting in your bunker. Yeah, 11 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: the lighting is pretty good. There's no light except for 12 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: this tiny one here that mimics sunshine, which is nice. 13 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: You can feel like I'm outside getting at least some 14 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: kind of exposure rather than being in this room and 15 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: not going mad. I'm not going mad. Everything's fine. Um, 16 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: if things are well right, How are they going in 17 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: your neck of the woods? Uh? Yeah, thanks for asking. Uh, 18 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: They're they're going all right. Um. Been a little isolated, 19 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: part of that self imposed, and part of that, um, 20 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: you know, part of part of that due to other reasons. 21 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: But everything will work out. It's strange because I was 22 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: thinking about this earlier this weekend. How quickly um, I mean, 23 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: I talked about all the time, how quickly things become 24 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: normal for populations of human beings. And one of the 25 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: things that's interesting is the um the adaptation of friend groups. Uh, 26 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: it's interesting. I've noticed this on a lot of like 27 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: virtual hangout platforms, especially the ones that have limits right 28 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: over how many people can be an X or do why. 29 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: And I think it's pretty tructive from a social dynamics, um, 30 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: you know, from from that perspective, like peek behind the curtain, folks. 31 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: Here on this show, we use zoom because it has 32 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: it has a lower lag than a lot of stuff, 33 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: at least for us, and it doesn't have a time limit. 34 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: So so I think it's interesting to see how people 35 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: adjust in the face of a an infection that is 36 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: probably not going away. I've got some scary research on that, 37 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: we might say for our next COVID update. Uh, But 38 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: you and I have been thinking about other global diseases, 39 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: and that's that's something we're talking about today. Yes, we 40 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: are exploring one of the most prominent conspiracy theories that 41 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: has existed over you know, the last few decades. It 42 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: is a belief that you will see repeated all across 43 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: the internet. Um it found global popularity for a time there, 44 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: and it kind of remains as this like unspoken truth 45 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: within a lot of communities, especially on the Internet in 46 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 1: the modern day. Right now, it's a really twisted thing. 47 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: It's a twisted dale. The concerns a disease, but not 48 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: the one that most of us are concerned with right now. Right, Yeah, 49 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: we're talking about HIV today and also you know you'll 50 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: hear it interchangeably described as AIDS. They're not quite the 51 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: same thing. But in short, ourur question today is how 52 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: did so many people come to believe that the United 53 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: States purposely created AIDS and why? So to answer this question, 54 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: we have to start the way we always do, with 55 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: what we know for sure. So here are the facts. 56 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: HIV is a virus like the coronavirus. HIV is short 57 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: for Human immuno deficiency virus. It causes the condition known 58 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: as autoimmune efficiency syndrome or AIDS. So you don't get AIDS, 59 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: you get HIV, and that it causes you to have AIDS. Nowadays, 60 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: millions of people millions of people have died from the 61 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: syndrome caused by HIV. But luckily, as we're recording this 62 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: now in there isn't a cure, but there are improved 63 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: therapies and preventative measures that have put the death rate 64 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: in a state of deep decline since it peaked back 65 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: and around two thousand and five. Yeah, so let's talk 66 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: about an area of HIV and AIDS that has a 67 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: lot of information misinformation about it on the internet, and 68 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: that is how the virus is transmitted. We do know 69 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: that a lot of bodily fluids are the general way 70 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: that it gets transmitted. We're talking blood, breast, milk, um 71 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: semen and vaginal secretions, uh and so on down down 72 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: the line there. And unlike the coronavirus, you cannot get 73 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: infected with HIV by that good old fashioned kissing. You 74 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: can't get it by shaking hands. You can't get it 75 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: by hugging or sharing food or beverages the way you 76 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: can get the coronavirus. But we do have a makeout 77 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: warning though, right, yes, you have to be very careful 78 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: about sores in the mouth of uh someone you are 79 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: deep kissing is the way it has been described French 80 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: kissing as most of us know it, So just be 81 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: careful because if you have a if there is an 82 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: open sore in someone's mouth, that can transmit this virus. 83 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: If you have an open sore as well, or if 84 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: you have you know, bleeding gums because of the gum disease, 85 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: gingervitis or something. I just wanted to drop a gingervitis 86 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,239 Speaker 1: line and there from the tooth based commercials. You're absolutely right, Matt. 87 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: You know um in comparison to other viruses, you would 88 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 1: think that HIV has one huge limiting factor. It's not airborne, right, 89 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: It's it's fluid transmitted. So you would think that, hey, 90 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: this is not something you know, this is not near 91 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: as easy to spread. But there's a problem because HIV 92 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: has a very long um I don't know if it's 93 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: right to call it an incubation rate, but you can 94 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: get HIV. A person get HIV and be contagious, be 95 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: a carrier and transmitter of it for a decade, ten 96 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: years or more before they exhibit any sign of infection, 97 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: before they have any reason to think they should go 98 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: get tested. And when they are out and about, when 99 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: they are you know, living their lives symptom free, asymptomatic, 100 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: they can infect what dozens more people one way or another, 101 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: and then those people, of course rents and repeat, go 102 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: on to infect dozens of others and so on and 103 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 1: so on until it becomes a glue mobal problem. HIV 104 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: attacks your immune system. It invades our cells, invades the 105 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: cells of your immune system, and then it hacks them 106 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: in a in a very uncool way, to say the least. 107 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: It reprograms them to stop being your immune cells that 108 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: you know, love and trust and become factories to just 109 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: make more HIV. If you don't get treatment, then what 110 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: happens is the number of immune cells in your body. 111 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: They dwindle, you know, like not all at once, but 112 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: kind of like a a dying town in the rural 113 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: Midwest or something. If the body cell, if the immune cells, 114 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: are people, there are fewer and fewer in the population. 115 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: And then as as your body is deprived of these 116 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: and loses them, that then autoimmuno deficiency syndrome can kick in. 117 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: And once that happens, a person can be susceptible to 118 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: a wide range of possible infections, some that would ordinarily 119 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: not be fatal. Right, your body has to work so 120 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: much harder, and your immune system has been so weakened 121 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: that it cannot fight back effectively. Yeah, and this is 122 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: where the coronavirus really does come back in because it 123 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: makes it that much more dangerous for anyone out there 124 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: who who is HIV positive um or who has autoimmune deficiency. 125 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: So it really it's a scary thing right now, um, 126 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 1: having this pandemic going around, um for those people. And 127 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: the other thing about HIV is that it isn't just 128 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: one thing, one particular thing. It is consistently changing and mutating, 129 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: and it's believed to be like HIV itself, is believed 130 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: to be a mutated version of a different virus that 131 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: was it's called the Simian immunodeficiency virus or SIEVE s 132 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: i V. And this is the same It does the 133 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: same kind of thing, only it attacks primates, apes, monkeys, right, 134 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: And that's important that will matter in just a second, 135 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: especially as we dive into the history of this of 136 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: this disease. So AIDS first gained public attention in the 137 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, and there were so many misconceptions about what 138 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: this was and how it spread. For example, some people, 139 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: including medical experts, early on, thought it was only a 140 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: disease encountered by people engaging in same sex relationships or 141 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: you know, same sex um intimate encounters. Right, And then 142 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: other people thought it only targeted minorities because both African 143 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: Americans and people in the LGBT communities were seemed to 144 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: be acquiring this more often than other communities. One thing 145 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: was for sure. It was initially seen as a terminal condition, 146 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: and you know, early treatments we're almost as damaging as 147 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: the infection itself. Luckily, back in the nine nineties, so 148 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: long ago now, doctors shifted to a new treatment program. 149 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: They started using combinations of drugs simultaneously. They called these 150 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: anti retroviral drugs cocktails. Even now, a cocktail cannot cure 151 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: HIV or AIDS, but it can control that replication and 152 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 1: that gives your immune system vital time to recover and strengthen. 153 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: So we're in a good spot there, especially compared to 154 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: the eighties. But we're still trying to figure out the 155 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: origin story of HIV, and we wanted to give you 156 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: the official version as it stands now. So the official 157 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: version of how HIV reached humans was that there were 158 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: hunters somewhere out in the bush and the sieve infection 159 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: that we talked about Previously to this, the immune deficiency 160 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: disease or virus that was affecting apes was trans bit 161 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: into humans when they killed somehow and then probably in 162 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: some way consumed the chimpanzees or possibly when these hunters. 163 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: You know, you're going through let's say a jungle, very 164 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: thick bush area, You're getting small cuts on your arms 165 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: or your legs or something. Then blood comes out of 166 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: a chimpanzee when it is killed, and somehow that blood 167 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: gets into one of those cuts, and then the virus 168 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: begins to mutate from there. Yeah. The thing is that 169 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: people have been getting sieve for a long long time, 170 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: pretty often, but every so often, every blue moon, this 171 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: sieve that was in their body would evolve and it 172 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: would adapt to live in its new environment, the human host. 173 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: And this is the ascendency of HIV one. There are 174 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: four main groups of HIV strains and they each have 175 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: a slightly different makeup genetically. And this is interesting because 176 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: it supports the scientist enter theory because they're saying, hey, 177 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: these different versions exist because every time sieve passed from 178 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: a chimp to a human, it mutated independently in a 179 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 1: different way and produced a slightly different strain. There are 180 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: things there that we should also mentioned. There's HIV two 181 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: UH that comes from sieve inside UH type of monkey 182 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: rather than a chimpanzee, and we think it happened in 183 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,479 Speaker 1: a similar way, but it's much rarer and it's less infectious, 184 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: so as a result, you don't see as many people infected. 185 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: It's nowadays found mainly in some West African countries Molly, Mauritania, Nigeria, 186 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,079 Speaker 1: Sierra Leone. But check this out. So we said the 187 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, right, how far back does it go. The 188 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: first verified case of HIV is from a blood sample 189 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: taken in nineteen fifty nine from a guy who's living 190 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. And that's probably 191 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: not the first one. That's just the first case for 192 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: which we have a verifiable, tested blood sample. It probably 193 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: happened before then. As a matter of fact, we're nine 194 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: eight percent plus certain that it did so. Right now, 195 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: that's the current theory, the hunter theory. That's when people 196 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: accept studies concluded the first transmission of sieve to HIV 197 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 1: and humans probably occurred in the early twentieth century, right, 198 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: think the teens or so. But we see evidence of 199 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: this in the Democratic Republic of Congo, because that's where 200 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: HIV strains have the most genetic diversity, and from what 201 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: we know, that means that sieve transformed into HIV multiple 202 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: times in this area. It's also home of many of 203 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: the first reported cases. So there you have it, right, 204 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: that's the official that's the official theory. That's what if 205 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: you ask an expert in the field, that's probably what 206 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 1: they're going to tell you. Yeah, it is the prevailing theory, 207 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: but it is certainly not the only thing you are 208 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: going to hear if you just go around and start 209 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: asking everybody about HIV and AIDS, and in fact, millions 210 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: of people across the world are convinced that for some reason, 211 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: in some way, the United States government or some faction 212 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: within had a hand in creating this virus, creating this disease. 213 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: Why would they do that, Well, allegedly, it's because of 214 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: something called operation Infection infection spelled with a K, And 215 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: we'll tell you all about that after a word from 216 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. Put aside for 217 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: the moment any questions about whether the United States actually 218 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: did or did not somehow manufacture HIV. Instead, let's explore 219 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: how this idea evolved, how it became so popular in 220 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: the world of conspiracy. The answer is simply this. It's 221 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: one thing. It's Operation infection, like you said, Matt with 222 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: a K, which makes it sound very cooler. Uh. But okay, 223 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: so you introduced this to this concept. But what is 224 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: operation infection? Well, has a several other names. By the way, 225 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: we should just mention here. There's forward too, there's Operation Denver. 226 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: By the way forward to you may also find Voorwarts 227 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: v O r W A R T S two. You'll 228 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: you'll find that if you begin searching around, um, this 229 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: Operation infection, it was just a classic KGB move, one 230 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: of these dis info productions, you know, disinformation. We've talked 231 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: about it before on this show, and it bears all 232 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: the hallmarks of their objectively top notch approach to information warfare. 233 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: And when you started diving in this, you're just you 234 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: it's weird. This feels very callous. But you begin to 235 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: after seeing this for so you know so many times, 236 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: you begin to have an appreciation of it in some 237 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: weird way of like, oh, okay, guys, I see you, 238 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: I see what you're doing. But let's just jump into 239 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: this and that sounds callous. I promise I don't mean 240 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: it that way. The Russian government, Okay, the Russian government 241 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: has been doing this for a long long time, way 242 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: before the rise of HIV. Oh, yes, yeah, they have. 243 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: You know, it's the thing. It's it's like, you gotta 244 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: respect the hustle, you know what I mean. Like they 245 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: put the work in, they put the time in. Uh. 246 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: The the idea that you one can labor for ten 247 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: hours on something and then become a genius is a myth. 248 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: But this you could tell that the practice made perfect here. 249 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: They didn't just come up with information warfare in the eighties. Uh, 250 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: the first Office entirely dedicated to propaganda and dis info 251 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: on the Russian side. And um, possibly in the world 252 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: is older than the KGB itself in ninety three, the GPU, 253 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: it's the predecessor to the KGB, kind of like how 254 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: the OSS here in the States as the predecessor to 255 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: the CIA. Anyway, in n the GPU was already rolling 256 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: along full steam ahead. And uh, the etymology of the 257 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: word disinformation itself proves how far into the game these 258 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: folks were. Oddly enough, you know, Russian and English very 259 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: different languages, but by the rise of the Second World War, 260 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: the word disinformation had been invented independently in both Russian 261 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: and English to describe information warfare. And when the KGB 262 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: got into the game, when they became a real thing 263 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: officially in the nineteen fifties, this meant that disinformation was 264 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: already uh tremendously important tool in their active measures doctrine. 265 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: Active measures, by the way, is just that you fimism. 266 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: Think of it more like the art of political warfare. Uh. 267 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: They were linking media manipulation the front groups, so we've 268 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: talked about before, they were counterfeiting documents and currency. And 269 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: then of course even um, when it was necessary or 270 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: I guess maybe when they had a bad day, Uh, 271 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: they would practice wet work assassinations. Yeah, this kind of 272 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 1: thing a lot of times feels like a smoke screen 273 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: so that other operations can occur. Right, So you can 274 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: mislead your opponent in some way into believing one thing 275 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 1: when you're actually doing another. And if you do it 276 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: effectively enough, you can still do the one thing because 277 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: your opponents will think that you are trying to deceive 278 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: them by talking or putting information about out about the 279 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: one thing. It's it's it's fascinating. The game involved with 280 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: all of this, the game that they play with lives 281 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: across the world, is fascinating, if not horrifying. So, um, 282 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 1: let's talk about the Cold War throughout all of it. 283 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: The you know, the Soviets really just excelled in creating 284 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: tension between their opponents and their friends. So the the 285 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: opponent's friends, right, does that make sense? The the allies 286 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: that the people who are supposed to be on one side, 287 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: but if you can fullment some kind of tension between 288 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: those allies, they are no longer as strong as they 289 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: once were. And in particular, they love this thing called 290 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: quote black propaganda, and this was crafting making up really 291 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: damaging stuff information that we would be put out about 292 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: an ally, let's say, which purported to be from an ally. Right, 293 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: So the Russian propaganda would exist, and it would look 294 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: as though, let's say England was putting out some information 295 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 1: about the United States, when in fact it is actually 296 00:19:54,880 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: a Soviet uh message, right, Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, 297 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,959 Speaker 1: even for a microcosmic example, you could imagine, let's just 298 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: take uh, let's just take Matt Nolan Ben and say like, well, 299 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: we'll pick one of one of those podcasters to be Russia. 300 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: Then they if they wanted to um break down cooperation 301 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: between the other two, then they would say. They wouldn't say, 302 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: hey I think this about I think this person thinks 303 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: us about you. They would say, hey, I got the 304 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: I recovered this and it's about you, and I wanted 305 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: to share it with you. The Russians did this on 306 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:38,719 Speaker 1: a global level. One example would be Operation Neptune. They 307 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: attempted to use these forged documents to imply that Western 308 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: politicians had supported the Nazis. But the important part here, 309 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: the twist is that they didn't say they were declassified 310 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: Soviet documents. They came from somewhere else, and the Russians 311 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: happened to find them. Excuse me, so the government happened 312 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: to find them, and so now it was ethical to 313 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: spread this thing and and to um because really it's 314 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: an attack, it just doesn't use bullets. And there there 315 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: are a lot of other cases to like. The USSR 316 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: was working actively, of course during this Cold War, right, 317 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: they're working actively to discredit the U. S. Government internationally, 318 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: not that it always needed a lot of help with that, 319 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: and to discredit it to its domestic population. Again, not 320 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: that it always needed much help with that either. Um, 321 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 1: I don't want to sound too cynical. We just have 322 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: to remember like during this time, Uh, there were massive 323 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: domestic protest right. Uh. There there was a lot of 324 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: unhappiness in the international sphere regarding unilateral actions of the 325 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: United States. So there's a pretty compelling chicken or the 326 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: egg argument, right, was h were these programs stoking flames 327 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 1: that already existed? Were they starting new fires? But they 328 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: did things like oh, evidence emerged that the US supports apartheid, 329 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: things like that, And so in the early days of 330 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: the AIDS crisis, the KGB saw a go olden once 331 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: in an intelligent agency's lifetime kind of opportunity. Yeah, around 332 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: your there is I guess one of the first known 333 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: examples that you can kind of point to when you're 334 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: looking through this stuff. Uh. There was an Indian pro 335 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: Soviet paper. It carried an anonymous letter from a quote 336 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: well known American scientist. Okay, oh, well known American scientist obviously, 337 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: and this person who was quoted in this paper claimed 338 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: that AIDS had been developed in a secret bio lab 339 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: in Fort Dietrich within the United States. And of course, 340 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: you know you begin there with a little seed basically right, Uh, 341 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: some scientists that we can't verify because it would put 342 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: their life at risk exactly. Um, so you've got that 343 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: little seed. Nine three. Then only two years later, there's 344 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: a retired biophysicist named Dr Jacob Siegel. He claims that 345 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: the AIDS virus was synthesized by combining parts of other 346 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: viruses retroviruses in this case, the v I s n 347 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: A or VISNA and the ht lv one. And you know, 348 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: we we talked about how the Soviets were using again, 349 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: not unlike the United States or any other large power, 350 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: they were using fronts to report, like fronts where they 351 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: could kind of seed a story in or something, and 352 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: then those fronts would report on that story. So they 353 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: would all these fronts all over the world started reporting 354 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: about this thing. They would talk about the seagull report, 355 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: this person who has come forward to let us know 356 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: about the AIDS virus and how it was created rather 357 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: than how it had evolved. And and here's here's an example. 358 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 1: We don't have to read this whole excerpt, but we 359 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: wanted to sum up what it's saying so you get 360 00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: a sense of it. This doctor, this retired biophysicists. You 361 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: mentioned Matt Seagull and his report, which was treated kind 362 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 1: of like the way, um, well, anytime politically you hear 363 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,479 Speaker 1: a report and it's just the name of the report 364 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: is the last name of someone, and kind of like 365 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: the Miller report, Well, that's not science. Anytime you hear that, 366 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a currency created. It's a nickname 367 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 1: created so that people can circulate it more easily, and 368 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 1: it's super recognizable, because that's the rule of media, right, 369 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: make it one or two words, preferably yep. So the 370 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: Seingull report says no relation to Steven Seagal, by the way, unfortunately, 371 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: says quote, it's very easy using genetic technologies to unite 372 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: two parts of completely independent viruses. But who would be 373 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,239 Speaker 1: interested in doing this? The military, of course. And then 374 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 1: they say in seven a top security lab was set 375 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: up at the Pentagon Central Biological Laboratory. And then when 376 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: year after that the first cases of AIDS occur in 377 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: the US in New York City. So the timeline then 378 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: implies how it occurred, how it managed to get out 379 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 1: of the secret, hush hush laboratory is easy to understand, 380 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,400 Speaker 1: And they say this following quote. Everyone knows that prisoners 381 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: are used for military experiments in the US. There promised 382 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: their freedom if they come out of the experiment alive. Interesting, 383 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: now we should note that Siegel himself, Dr. Jacob Siegel, 384 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,719 Speaker 1: was presented as a French researcher, but he was definitely 385 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: he was a German guy. They were just trying to 386 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: sort of make it one more remove from the Soviet government. 387 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: And unfortunately there's some truth in some of these statements. 388 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: The US does have secret biolabs, the US did experiment 389 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: on prisoners, Like none of that stuff was made up. 390 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,959 Speaker 1: Just this instance of that happening. And you know, the 391 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: report blew up. At least for back in the day. 392 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: It couldn't go viral on the internet because it wasn't 393 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: really you couldn't do that yet, but it did go 394 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: viral as far as coverage and rumor and people talking 395 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: about this. It received coverage in eighty countries in thirty languages, 396 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: this Seagul report, and that spread it just it followed 397 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: this fashion that we've seen before. It's something that continues 398 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: that we you know, kind of continue to see. Well, 399 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: let's let's just keep going here. Uh, the story appeared 400 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: in a publication from outside the USSR, right, So it's 401 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: not us, it's just it's over there. Right. Then it 402 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: was presented as um investigative work within so the Soviet media. Right, 403 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 1: So it's like we, um were investigating this thing, this 404 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: report that's been out there that now we're looking at Uh, 405 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: look what we found right right, right, look at this 406 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: Look what we found. Uh. It's it's crazy, right, but 407 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: we feel it is our ethical duty to report it. Uh. 408 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: And furthermore, you know, join us and ask you why 409 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: the Unit to States won't answer these strong and disturbing allegations. 410 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: And this is a smear tactic that you've seen probably 411 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: in in the world of celebrity as well, where it's like, 412 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: you know, I didn't say it, but some people say, Okay, 413 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: who's our celebrity we pick on today, Matt, let's go 414 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: with Paul Rubens. No no, no, um Conan O'Brien, Conan O'Brien, 415 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: oh man, Okay, alright. So this hypothetical example, and I'm sorry, uh, 416 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: I'm sorry Mr Rubens that you lost the ConA in here. Uh. 417 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: In this hypothetical example, you would see something in the 418 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: media like, well, you know, I didn't say it. There 419 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: are a lot of reports. There are some people are 420 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: saying it happened, saying that Conan O'Brien breaks into preschools 421 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 1: and steals children's shoes and that he's he's using them 422 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: to decorate a wall of of his attic and uh, 423 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not saying it's true. I'm saying a 424 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: lot of people are saying it. But I think it's 425 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: interesting that he's never denied the allegation. And you know what, erol, 426 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: I won't even come out and talk about it. Have 427 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: you noticed that? Yeah, exactly exactly. It's like, well, why 428 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: aren't they responding? Um? And this is disturbing because you know, 429 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 1: it works really well if people are already, if they 430 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: already have some pre existing beliefs. Right, if someone, for 431 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: some terrible reason, ever watched Conan O'Brien, who is a 432 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: fantastic guy, and thought, yeah, guy, it looks it looks 433 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: like steel shoes, and they especially, yeah, they heard that report, 434 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: they would be like, wow, he never he never denied it. 435 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: I knew it. I knew I was right. And we're 436 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: we're having fun with that example. But the mechanics are 437 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: sound that happens all the time. The Soviet Party also 438 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: focus special attention on the continent of Africa and Radio Moscow, 439 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: which is pretty much exactly like Voice of America or something. 440 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: Radio Moscow said the US was deliberately infecting people with 441 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: disease under the guise of free vaccination projects. Uh. And 442 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: there there's you know, tremendous distrust of vaccination projects in 443 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: a lot of the world, especially when they're sponsored by 444 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: Western powers or Western pharmaceutical companies. That's a story for 445 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: another day though, because there's some sand to it in 446 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: my opinion. I don't know if you agree with me there. 447 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, actually, yeah, there's some sand to it. Okay, 448 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: So we've got to write that episode down for the future. 449 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: But we're we're going to take a pause, we'll have 450 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor, and when we return, we're 451 00:29:50,960 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: gonna see what happened to Operation Infection. And we're back. 452 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: So just to be clear, what was the purpose of 453 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: Operation Infection. We understand the strategy of this conspiracy, and 454 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: it is a conspiracy and it was effective, but what like, 455 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: what was the what was why? Why were they doing this? 456 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: That's a great question because on the surface, it doesn't 457 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: seem to make a ton of sense, but if you 458 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: look at a bigger picture, it does appear to have 459 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 1: two purposes. The first one is just to discredit the 460 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: United States in any way that they could um and 461 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: to you know, make the United States civilians within the 462 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: United States maybe feel just a little bit more, if 463 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: not a lot bit more, worried that their government isn't 464 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: telling them the truth. And the second purpose there is 465 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: to shift attention away from Russia's own very real chemical 466 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: and bioweaponry research, the re scary stuff that was happening 467 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: in Russian research laboratories and the United States laboratories and 468 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: probably a bunch of other places too. Mm hmm, yeah, 469 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: well said. And this leads us to another question. An 470 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: elephant in the room here, an elephant in the red 471 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: room here is how do we know about this today? 472 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: It was so top secret? Right, how did we figure 473 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: this out? Are we secretly Russian disinfo agents? Well, there 474 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: is a tragic turn of events that leads to the 475 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: revelation of this. Here's what happens. Russia was actually really 476 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: successful convincing people across the planet that HIV was not 477 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: only manufactured, but that the US was responsible, and part 478 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: of the reason they were so successful is because they 479 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: didn't make up the disease itself. It was and is 480 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: a real medical condition, and it was spreading unchecked, and 481 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: eventually the bill came to the disease arrived on Russian soil. 482 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: So in the mid to late nineteen eighties, Soviet researchers 483 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: are asking their American colleagues for help fighting this virus. 484 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: The request gets denied. Not only is it denied, but 485 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: their American colleagues say, look, we're not going to help 486 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: you at all and will never help you unless you 487 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: stop this disinformation operation, at which point, you know, of course, 488 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: the Soviet researchers are like, hey, I'm not in charge 489 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: of that. That's the that's the you know, that's the 490 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: k g B, I check samples. I don't know how 491 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: much policy influence you think I have UH. But they 492 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: were at an impasse, and the Gorbachev administration tried to 493 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: prevent the US from exposing this right, from tracing these 494 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: things like the Cigar report back to UH its ultimate 495 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: creators in the U s SR. But HIV infections continue 496 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: to grow in Russia and or in the Soviet Union. 497 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: Excuse me and Eventually, the Gorbitchov administration disowns the project 498 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: entirely in n but only two years, only two years 499 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: after that report the Sego report, right right, So it 500 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: blew up and then it collapsed, but people didn't admit 501 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: what was going on for a few more years, that's right. 502 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: It wasn't until nineteen ninety two that you've Geini prima CoV, 503 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: he was at the time the director of the Foreign 504 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: Intelligence Service. He came forward, he confirmed for everyone that 505 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: the KGB had in fact created and perpetuated this myth. 506 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: They their hands were all over it. And you know, 507 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: again is quite a while, like seven years after that 508 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: initial report, but still it is so strange to think 509 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: about how many minds were touched by this concept and 510 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: how it spread both on a arena, but then also 511 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: you know, within small communities kind of whispering to each other, 512 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 1: because this wasn't This isn't the kind of thing you 513 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: just go out and you just start telling everyone, And 514 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: it was I and I I imagine that it was 515 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: known it would be a whisper campaign after the initial push, 516 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: or at least it feels that way. Um, it really 517 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: is fascinating to think about this being orchestrated though, Yeah, 518 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: word of mouth for for almost anything. Word of mouth 519 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: is such a powerful medium of transmission, and it's a 520 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: powerful medium of belief. As human beings, you know, most 521 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 1: of us are driven to seek um harmony of some 522 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: sort with our peer groups. And part of the way 523 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 1: we seek harmony with each other is through agree on things. 524 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: It's a different drive. Like there's some who only want 525 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: to um I guess feel like they're they're dominating a 526 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: social circle. But most people tend to want to seek 527 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: harmony through being able to look at their close associates 528 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: and friends and say, yeah, not only do we know 529 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: what's going on, but we all agree on it, you 530 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: know what I mean. So if someone you like or 531 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: are close to is telling you something, depend on how 532 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: they tell it to you, you're going to eventually start 533 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: to shift towards their ideology. It's fascinating. I agree. Fascinating's 534 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: the right word because what we found here is Operation Infection, 535 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: whatever you wanna call it, is a genuine conspiracy to 536 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: create a fake conspiracy. It's like it's a Matroska doll 537 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: of schemes within schemes. And I love that you brought 538 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: up the very short span of time that elapsed here. 539 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Even after these people are like 540 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: caught redheaded in nineteen nineties, UH, the government officially admits 541 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: it was a thing, but the damage was already done. 542 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: Because another thing about our species is we like our incorrect, 543 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 1: like our red meat headlines and sensational stuff. We like 544 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: it big slapped on the front page and a headline, 545 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: maybe with some exclamation marks. I don't know. We'll style 546 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: on it. We'll see how it feels in the print shop. 547 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 1: But we saved the corrections for like the back of 548 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,919 Speaker 1: page twelve two weeks later, because no one reads them. 549 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:19,879 Speaker 1: No one really wants to, you know what I mean. 550 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: You got the headline, you got your opinion. You're pretty 551 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: much done. As we said in the US, this virus 552 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: was predominantly affecting in the early days, was predominantly affecting 553 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: as far as the experts could see UH, African American 554 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: communities and people in LGBT communities. These two groups have 555 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,839 Speaker 1: been historically discriminated against and victimized. So it is a 556 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: damning condemnation of American society that this idea didn't seem impossible. 557 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: You know, people would look around and say, well, think 558 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: about all the other things the government has done to 559 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,240 Speaker 1: attack these communities in the past. We know those things happened, 560 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: and we know that ES keeps evolving at a breakneck pace. 561 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like shrug dot gif. Yeah it uh, 562 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: it definitely seemed to make sense, especially at the time 563 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: given the past. You're right, I mean you you could 564 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: almost imagine it being oh, well, hey, this disease was 565 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: created by the government to wipe these populations out. Basically, 566 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: you could you can imagine why people would at least 567 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: be open to that idea. Um And and the other 568 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: big problem here was that, you know, at the time, 569 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: the presidential administration, the the whole White House structure, if 570 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: you will, all of the people there, they were not 571 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: tackling it head on it. You know, it was a 572 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: known thing, especially if you were living in one of 573 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: the communities, communities that was being ravaged by the by 574 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: HIV and AIDS. It was very much well known and 575 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 1: it was a terrifying thing. But there wasn't It didn't 576 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 1: feel like a ton was being done about it, and 577 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: there really wasn't much being done about it at the time, 578 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,320 Speaker 1: at least early on. Yeah, that's a good point because 579 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 1: the initial government and activity was You know, if you're 580 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: coming from that space, right, you believe in this, then 581 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: what seems to be a lack of activity in the 582 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: public sphere on the government's behalf is just another another 583 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: piece of proof. Right at that point, I mean, people 584 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: are not people are not idiotic. Right, we have to 585 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,879 Speaker 1: remember that people people then are just as smart as 586 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: people today, and they have all the same failings and 587 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: all the same triumphs. So we can we can understand 588 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: where this is coming from. And this operation infection didn't 589 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,399 Speaker 1: last that long, but its effects are still with us. 590 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: A two thousand five study published in the Journal of 591 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome showed that fifty of African American people 592 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: surveyed believed that AIDS is quote a man made virus, 593 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: and fifteen percent thought that was a form of genocide 594 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: against against black people in general. And like HIV itself, 595 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: this KGB crafted conspiracy theory mutated beyond its original state 596 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: because it was it was out in the wild. You know, 597 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 1: if you don't already trust the government, why would you 598 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 1: trust their official statements of any sort. Right, So this, 599 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: once it gets in the wild once it gets in 600 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 1: the field, Uh, this theory that the US made HIV 601 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: starts to mix with other things, even things that seem 602 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: kind of contradictory, like AIDS denihilism, which was huge at 603 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: the time. You know, it was like it's misunderstood things, 604 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: sort of like five G and COVID. Nowadays, I would 605 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: say for a parallel m Yeah, interesting, just because there 606 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,880 Speaker 1: wasn't enough people didn't have enough working information or working 607 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 1: knowledge of it. It felt as though it couldn't be 608 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: real or it was not real. And there there were 609 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: so many other stories still today actually that uh roll 610 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: around about the origin of HIV and AIDS, and I 611 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 1: think it is one of those things that once you 612 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,760 Speaker 1: have enough, once you can get enough people to question 613 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,359 Speaker 1: the official story, than all of the other stories out 614 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: there begin to be a possibility for someone who's already disbelieving. Um, 615 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: I don't know it just yeah, it makes sense and 616 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: you can kind of see it at work with so 617 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: many things in now, like in today's zeitgeist of just 618 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: our disbelief at official stories or disbelief of official stories. Yeah, agreed, 619 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,439 Speaker 1: and there you have it. You know, that is why 620 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: people genuinely believe the US government created HIV. It tragically 621 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: jibs with past atrocities, It mixed with other adjacent or 622 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 1: existing conspiracies, and some of the world's foremost experts on 623 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:03,240 Speaker 1: information warfare just pushed it through two and again. I 624 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 1: I hate to say it, but just objectively, if you 625 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: look at the at the structure that they implemented, Uh, 626 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: their hustle is top notch. As you said, I mean 627 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: today it is important to remember there's still unanswered questions 628 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: about HIV, but it is luckily no longer a death sentence, 629 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: and scientists are working continually to improve the treatments available. Yeah, 630 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: and if you look on the other side of that coin, 631 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: you realize that dis info agents masters people who have 632 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 1: been doing this for a long time, they don't stop. Uh. 633 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: They'll you know, there's a project that may end, or 634 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: one campaign that may end, but the people who are 635 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 1: very good at this will continue to be doing this. 636 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,800 Speaker 1: And they do because they every time they attempt a campaign, 637 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: you'll learn a little something about how well it worked, 638 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 1: how well it didn't work, what and what you can 639 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 1: take away from it, and things like operation infection can 640 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: then get applied to something new, let's say current events 641 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 1: let's talk about the election that's you know, about to happen. Well, 642 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 1: think about the previous election in and the manipulation that 643 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: occurred there, you know. Um, And there are people here 644 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,879 Speaker 1: listening that don't believe any kind of manipulation occurred. There 645 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 1: are people here who a thousand percent know that manipulation 646 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,400 Speaker 1: occurred from Russia during the presidential election in the United States. Um. 647 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: And it is very interesting to see that divide, uh, 648 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:36,520 Speaker 1: you know, our own disbelief or fervent belief in something 649 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 1: that either did or didn't happen, right, right. And you 650 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: would think that, um, you would think that the proliferation 651 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: of instantaneous communications, social media and the Internet would finally 652 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 1: smash all the you know, relatively like disgusting gate keeping 653 00:42:55,640 --> 00:43:00,239 Speaker 1: of information sources that existed beforehand. But unfortunately that is 654 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: not the case. Make no mistake. Nineteen fifty that was nothing. 655 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,919 Speaker 1: We are in the golden age of information warfare and 656 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:14,400 Speaker 1: things like this. Just like you've heard experts predict uh pandemics, 657 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,320 Speaker 1: in the future, there is another kind of global situation. 658 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,879 Speaker 1: There will be more things like Operation infection. They will 659 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: get better, just like in the Terminator movies, when the 660 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: first androids were easy to spot. These new propaganda projects 661 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 1: are going to get closer and closer to seeming like 662 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 1: the real thing. The difference, the important difference, is that 663 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:41,319 Speaker 1: they are not real. They are being used to control you, 664 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: to make you comply with the behaviors you would not accept, 665 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: or to make you do things you ordinarily wouldn't do. 666 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: And on that note, we have to ask for your health. 667 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realists, what are other propaganda operations proven or 668 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,760 Speaker 1: alleged that you think your fellow listeners should learn more about? 669 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:00,879 Speaker 1: And you may be asking your says, Hey, guys, how 670 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,239 Speaker 1: do you even know that Operation Infection was real and 671 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: actual disinformation campaign? Well, it's an It's interesting that you 672 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 1: ask that, because one of the main reasons I believe 673 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,879 Speaker 1: it is true is because on the CIA dot gov 674 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: website there is an entry about it. There are some 675 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 1: materials you can look at, so if you search Operation 676 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 1: Infection on CIA dot gov you can see that. Now 677 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna use my own logic here. Why why 678 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 1: would the CIA want to put out information about a 679 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,800 Speaker 1: propaganda campaign from an opposing at least at the time 680 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: and opposing superpower. M hmm, Now my wheels are turning 681 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 1: even further because I hadn't thought about it in this 682 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: way until we started this episode. Just the concept that 683 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 1: the CIA would want you to think that Russia is 684 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,720 Speaker 1: putting out all kinds of disinformation campaigns, or the Soviet 685 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,920 Speaker 1: Union at the time. Um, so that maybe you don't 686 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: think about or you dismiss the United States originating propaganda 687 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:12,360 Speaker 1: campaigns that are going around at disinformation campaigns. Um, yeah, 688 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just I'm just 689 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,759 Speaker 1: trying to figure out where I am within the net 690 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 1: of propaganda. Yeah, because you know, it makes like for 691 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: a visual analogy, makes me think of maybe U two 692 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 1: street musicians on opposite sides of the street or on 693 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: stages that are facing one another, and they're both trying 694 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,080 Speaker 1: to get attention from the same audience. Uh, they're trying 695 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 1: to direct attention from the same audience, like look what 696 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,600 Speaker 1: that joker is doing. Don't look at what my hands 697 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,760 Speaker 1: are doing, you know what I mean? Yeah? Oh wow, 698 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,799 Speaker 1: that's that's depressing, which means it's probably has a seat 699 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,840 Speaker 1: of truth in it, right. But you can also find 700 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,680 Speaker 1: it on The Guardian in New York Times and on 701 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:06,719 Speaker 1: you know, the website New York Good video a video studio. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 702 00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,920 Speaker 1: and we want to Hey, if you think operational infection 703 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:11,880 Speaker 1: was a hoax, I think it's a c I a 704 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,680 Speaker 1: cover up for the truth. Let us know too. We 705 00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,400 Speaker 1: would always rather learn the truth than be comfortable feeling 706 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,960 Speaker 1: right about something, you know what I mean. Absolutely, So 707 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,120 Speaker 1: you can find us, and more importantly, you can find 708 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:30,319 Speaker 1: your fellow listeners in our communities on Facebook, on Instagram, 709 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,000 Speaker 1: and on Twitter. We especially love to recommend Here's where 710 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 1: it gets Crazy over on Facebook, where you can hang 711 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,560 Speaker 1: out with us and some of the best mods in 712 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,959 Speaker 1: the moderating business, or shout out to you all as well. 713 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,960 Speaker 1: That's right. All you need to know is I think 714 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,279 Speaker 1: the host names still and you can get in and 715 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,160 Speaker 1: start talking about all the episodes, suggest some new ones, 716 00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,439 Speaker 1: post some memes, whatever you want to do. It's fun. 717 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,360 Speaker 1: And you know we always say yes, name name one 718 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,600 Speaker 1: or all of the host uh. If if you would like, 719 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,279 Speaker 1: you can just make us laugh. That will probably get 720 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:09,879 Speaker 1: you in. Absolutely people have been following that uh that 721 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: direction in our voicemail messages that they've been leaving us. 722 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,520 Speaker 1: You can right now call our number. It is one 723 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,520 Speaker 1: eight three three std w y t K you can 724 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,520 Speaker 1: leave up to a three minute message. Um, and I 725 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,920 Speaker 1: am very happy to report that both Ben and I 726 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,319 Speaker 1: will be listening for sure, and Noel also has the 727 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,319 Speaker 1: information now too, So we might all be listening to 728 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: your messages and you might get a call. You might 729 00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:41,279 Speaker 1: just uh uh, just know that your words will enter 730 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,640 Speaker 1: our ears. That sounds weird, uh that I'd like to 731 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,640 Speaker 1: do an impromptu shout out. Okay, I would like to 732 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 1: give a shout out to Matthew B. You know who 733 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 1: you are. Matthew B who uh called in to say 734 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 1: that one of his other favorite conspiracy shows has a 735 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 1: has a host named Matthew uh and and one as 736 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:13,040 Speaker 1: a host named Ben, and he thinks it is a conspiracy, 737 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:17,239 Speaker 1: not a conspiracy theory, but a conspiracy that he has 738 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,040 Speaker 1: something some things in common with his name. Wise, do 739 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 1: you remember that one? I do remember that one. Yes, Ben, 740 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:30,160 Speaker 1: he's like which Matt and Ben? Okay, Yeah, that's really great. 741 00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 1: Also had somebody calling in asking about the squirrel population 742 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,440 Speaker 1: and coronavirus. I don't know if you get to hear 743 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:39,800 Speaker 1: that one yet been but it was a very adamant 744 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,719 Speaker 1: listener asking about whether or not the squirrels I think 745 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,759 Speaker 1: it's around the Chicago area where for some reason being 746 00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,520 Speaker 1: affected by coronavirus because they this person hadn't seen any 747 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:58,560 Speaker 1: squirrels all spring. Um, I haven't been able to find anything. 748 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,440 Speaker 1: But if you out there listening and you have some 749 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,719 Speaker 1: information about squirrels and where they are, where they are 750 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,080 Speaker 1: right now, let us know they're here in Atlanta. I 751 00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,319 Speaker 1: was looking at some earlier today in my backyard. But 752 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,360 Speaker 1: you know who knows. And if you think social media 753 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,000 Speaker 1: is not the place for that squirrel, you know for 754 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 1: the hard hitting squirrel reporting. If you think that uh 755 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,480 Speaker 1: voicemail doesn't give you enough time, you will have three 756 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:25,400 Speaker 1: minutes to fully air out your thoughts. Then never worry. 757 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,839 Speaker 1: We have one way that you can always always contact us, 758 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:34,520 Speaker 1: Rain or Shine Collapse of civilization notwithstanding, you can reach 759 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,160 Speaker 1: us seven at our good old fashioned email address. We 760 00:49:38,239 --> 00:50:00,960 Speaker 1: are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff they 761 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,840 Speaker 1: don't want you to know is a production of I 762 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,080 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit 763 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,880 Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 764 00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:10,120 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.